← Sunday Sports Club with Allison Kuch
Sunday Sports Club with Allison Kuch
The tea on celebrity golf with guests Wells Adams and Chad Mumm
01:10:12
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- [00:00]
Wells Adams
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.
- [00:03]
Alison Couch
What's up, guys? Welcome back to Sunday Sports Club Podcast, a podcast all about sports told by a woman. And that woman is me. Hi, guys. I'm Alison Couch, and today I'm joined by two special people. We have Wells Adams and Chad Mum. They are the hosts of the Vanity Index podcast. Excited to have you guys. Okay, so I guess we can start with the first most important question. What exactly is Vanity Index? And why did you name your podcast after it?
- [00:40]
Wells Adams
It's a good question.
- [00:42]
Chad Mum
Uh, you know what? Well, I think since I named it, I. I get to take this one. Wow, you named it your first. So our. Our podcast.
- [00:48]
Alison Couch
Okay, cool.
- [00:50]
Chad Mum
I'm responsible. I'm responsible for the name. So. So it. You know, our podcast, when we originally conceived, it was kind of all about the intersection of golf and Hollywood. And, you know, you go back to the early days of Hollyw. Movie stars, they always love golf. And throughout the sort of Rat Pack era and the 90s, and even still today, there's a lot of, like, celebrities who play golf. And Wells and I, you know, somehow have found ourselves, you know, mixing it up with the Hollywood royalty and athletes and things like that. And so we liked the idea of. Of one. The abbreviation Vanity Index Podcast abbreviates to vip, which our show, you know, tends to try to have a lot of VIPs on it, but it's also a golf term. So when you play golf, you have a handicap index. So, you know, you often talk about. Hear people talking about their handicap or their index or being a scratch golfer. And typically the way it works is it's when you're playing with people who are differing skill levels, if you put all your scores into the system that's run by the usga and it gives you your handicap index, which allows, like, a good player to. To play a match against a player who is less good, and they get a certain number of strokes per round that kind of evens the playing field. So, so typically when you are playing a lot of games for money, which is a frequent topic of our show, you want your handicap to be inflated a bit because you want to get more strokes or you want it to be more equal against a worse player. And that has a term, it's called sandbagging, which means if you're kind of artificially inflating your handicap. But the other opposite thing of that is having what's called a vanity index, which is basically you make your handicap lower, which means it looks like you're a better golfer. Than, than you actually are. And so the one industry probably that has the highest quotient of vanity indexes in all of golf is the Hollywood celebrity industry. And so we thought that was a fitting title for our show. That was kind of meant to be the intersection of both.
- [02:41]
Alison Couch
Why do you think that is? Do you think they just want to pretend to be better golfers to like, impress other Hollywood celebrities?
- [02:50]
Wells Adams
Absolutely. Actors and, you know, celebrities are the most egocentric people in the world and they want to say, yeah, I'm a single digit handicap, even though there's no way they are. It's interesting though that we found, you know, this, this podcast is all about, you know, sports. We found that a lot of athletes are on the other end of things. They actually are sandbagging a lot because athletes are extremely competitive, do not want to lose, and want to kind of skew the line the other way. So to make sure they do win. We've also found that athletes generally play for a lot more money than like actors will, which is very interesting. So, yeah, I think it has something to do with, with their egos for sure.
- [03:37]
Alison Couch
You know, that actually doesn't surprise me because I'm thinking of athlete, famous athletes that are notorious for being interested in golf. This past year I just went to the Masters and Josh Allen, for example, who's a quarterback for the Buffalo Bills, like, I just can't see him putting a lower number and then golfing like not to that lower number. So that kind of makes sense that like celebrities might do it, but professional athletes don't want to adhere that, adhere to that.
- [04:09]
Wells Adams
Josh is very good at golf. I, I actually kind of believe Josh is handicapped. But there are other quarterbacks that which will not be named that are notorious for sandbagging.
- [04:20]
Alison Couch
You're like, yeah, we don't want to hurt our chances for, for them coming on the podcast. Right. It's super interesting. I mean, just even like the terms. I've never really thought about it. I'm like, oh, like if you have a handicap, clearly, like it's just going to be, you know, what your actual handicap is. But it's to think that people might go like the other route, one or the other. I probably would pretend, I would pretend that I'm a better golfer because, I mean, how many times you actually going to show up to the golf course with the people you're bragging to? Right.
- [04:53]
Chad Mum
That's what happens though, in this, in our kind of world is you get, everybody plays in these celebrity pro ams together and they always ask for your hand. They're always net events. So everybody needs an active handicap. And it's hard to get totally called out for either sandbagging or having a vanity index. But it is true. Like the people end up playing a lot of these tournaments and so you do have to kind of keep a handicap and you know, they'll blame all kinds of things for bad performance. You know, the vanity index as well, oh, you know, my swing was off that day or yeah. Or I just, you know, it was the crowds and you know, whatever. But, but, but it's been fun to, fun to track it and, and as well as was saying like the athletes do want to win, like aggressively want to win. They're hyper competitive. So, you know, you do see it kind of going the other way. And the amount of money games that we hear about is, is, you know, the amount of money that these famous people are playing golf for amongst their friends. I mean that's like a real thing. It's like a lot of these celebrities, like they will play every single time they play there. There's some wager on it and the athletes are wagering far more than the celebrity actors are.
- [05:56]
Alison Couch
That doesn't surprise me. From. I know a few professional athletes, one in particular, who I won't name names, but I have heard that when it comes to athletes, just the, the like wagering on certain things is insane. Not necessarily like when it comes to their own sport, but more so like other sports.
- [06:19]
Chad Mum
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, I mean it goes back. I mean there's like legendary stories about Michael Jordan's, you know, golf betting. And you know, there's, there's just the, whatever it's pitchers tends to be. You get a lot of quarterbacks and pitchers and kickers that play golf. You know, they got the free time. Incidentally, we've identified what we think who that we think the best famous person golfer is and that's Marty Fish, the former tennis player. So, you know, you get like tennis, some good tennis players out there.
- [06:49]
Wells Adams
Hockey players are always very good.
- [06:51]
Chad Mum
Yeah, they got that move, you know. But the, it's like the baseball players, they get a lot. They have a lot of power, but they have a, you know, somewhat of a hard time translating that power into like accuracy. But for whatever reason seems to work out for the hockey players and the pitchers. I don't know.
- [07:04]
Alison Couch
It's super interesting to me. Okay, well, let's take it back a little bit because you guys clearly are very interested in golf. What is the background with both of you? How you Got into golf. When you did get into golf, was it, like, cool at the time? I feel like golf has really had a resurgence lately.
- [07:22]
Wells Adams
Yeah. And I would say it's probably partially attributed to what Chad does. He's an executive producer for Full Swing, which is a golf, you know, documentary on Netflix. And that show is immensely popular, and it's, you know, thanks to his hard work. But, you know, I. I grew up in. In Monterey, Carmel Public beach area, which is kind of like the. The home of golf, least on the west coast of the United States. Maybe one of the most famous golf courses, Pueblo beach, is there. And so I grew up playing golf. It was a very, like, kind of normal thing for. For me to do. I grew up on a golf course. I played in high school, and I was an okay golfer. Yeah, I played in tournaments a lot there as a kid. They had a great junior golf program in Monterey. It's now. I think it's national. It's called First Tea. But, yeah, I used to play there in Spyglass and Poppy Hills. And it was such a cool. You know, I didn't know how good I had it back then. But then, you know, I went to Nashville. I was a radio host for years. And, you know, if you're in radio, you're poor, so I didn't really play golf for years. And then when I got into tv, I moved out to Los Angeles. I made a little. Little more money, and all of a sudden you could play, you know, 12 months out of the year. And so I kind of dove back into it. And, you know, as someone who is on kind of like a bad reality TV show, every year I get invited to all these kind of like, celebrity golf tournament events. And. And so I really, really started, like, really trying to get good. And that was kind of the intersection of. When I joined a club of which, you know, our handsome. My handsome co host, Chad Mum, is a member at, and we started hanging out and talking. We had made a TV show together. Um, and. And then all of a sudden, kind of this podcast was. Was. Was built. But Chad's background in golf is different, and he's a much more accomplished golfer than I am.
- [09:22]
Chad Mum
Yeah, I don't know about that, but, yeah, my. You know, I grew up a military brat, so I was moving around a lot as a kid. And, you know, my dad was in the Air Force. And there's a joke that's not much of a joke when they build a new Air Force base. You know, they build the Runway, then they build the golf course, then they build the rest of the base. So, you know, the military and golf has like a whole thing. And you know, Tiger woods famously grew up playing a military golf course and you know, down in San Diego. So, so golf was always kind of a part of our family. My grandfather played, who was also in the Air Force, my dad played. And, and so for me, whenever I would move as a kid, we'd move every kind of three to four years. Golf was like the one place that kind of felt consistent. So I'd get to a new town, I'd go to a new school, but like I'd show up at the golf course and I felt at home, you know, and, and you'd walk into the pro shop at any golf course and you kind of immediately felt like you're around your people. And that's one of the special things about the game. You know, you could be like a, a 12 year old and then be like hanging out with 60 year olds and like we're all just trying to get better at golf and there's just like such a specific golf culture. And so when my dad retired, we moved to Georgia and I played competitive junior golf and you know, had aspirations of being on the PGA Tour. One day that, that, you know, those, those hopes and dreams were dashed when I played against actually a guy who's currently on the PGA Tour, a major winning golfer named Brian Harmon. We were in the same tournament together and I played like the best round I could have played. He beat me by 10 shots. And I was like, all right, I think it's, it's over for me, those dreams. But, but I kept playing golf and got into the media industry and lived in New York and kind of like Wells like tried to play as much as I could in New York City. I mean, I'd be like, like getting on the Long island railroad, my, with my golf bag, like 5am on Saturday to take the train out to Long island to play some public golf course. And you know, and then, but then moving to LA when I started the, you know, doing more film and TV producing, you know, you can play year round. And so I did the same thing. I joined a private club. Wells is a member, we made a show together and, and as in the sort of backdrop of all of that, once I moved to LA 10 years ago, I started working on what would become Full Swing. And so, you know, I've produced like more than 50 TV shows, mostly nonfiction and docs and reality and things like that. But this golf show was sort of my baby. And so I worked on it for nine years before kind of it all came together. And in 2019, I convinced the PGA Tour finally to kind of sign over the rights to make the show. And, you know, three years later, we came out on Netflix. And. And I think, like, I don't think anybody thought that it was going to be as big of a hit as it was. And, you know, it was sort of right up there with Drive Survive in terms of, like, these Netflix sports stocks that really break through and. And especially for, like, for your listeners and viewers. I feel like Full Swing really, really worked for, like, women fans, too. And I heard so many anecdotal stories about, like, oh, my wife is into golf, or my girlfriend's into golf now because we watched Full Swing together, and it's like I had it on, and all of a sudden, you know, my wife's, like, sitting there next to me, like, rooting for Joel Damon or crying when Rory wins the, you know, sinks the winning putt. And. And we really tried to, with that show, like, include a lot of the wives and girlfriends. And I think golf is a. Is a really great backdrop for dramatic storytelling. And because there's no team, you're kind of an individual in the sport, and so there's so much individual pressure, and so. And then it's like the families and caddies and those relationships just are super complex and evolved, and you're sitting there, like, rooting on someone who is your spouse or your best friend, and you're standing there holding their bag, but you can't hit the shots for them. And so there's just. It just makes for, like, great human drama. And I found the golfers to be really interesting characters in a way that maybe even I wasn't expecting. I kind of expected to find a lot of robots out there, and they're not, like, they're great characters, so I've been lucky to do that. And so Wells and I started this podcast at the beginning of the year, and it's been super fun since we started.
- [13:11]
Alison Couch
Yeah, I love that. First and foremost, congratulations, because, I mean, it's a super successful show. I have to say that as somebody who has kind of taken followers behind the scenes of the NFL, it's interesting to see the female population being more interested at the, like, the big picture stories, and that. That makes them, like, more interested in the sport itself. They. They want to know who is their wife? What is their wife doing? Who are. What is their story? What. What storytelling ability do they have? Or, like, what. What makes them different from you know, just like throwing on a hat and swinging a club. But you said that this show has been in the works for, I mean, over nine years. Like, there's this huge explosion with golf. What do you think has contributed to, like, the sudden, like, regain of interest in golf?
- [14:03]
Chad Mum
I. I think it's a lot of things. I think Covid really accelerated golf's growth because it was one of the few things you could do. It was like, you know, if you're. Everyone's working from home, you got a lot more free time. Golf is a great way to suck up a lot of free time. It was something you do outside, so it's, you know, even like going.
- [14:20]
Alison Couch
A lot of wives are probably listening. Golf does take up a lot of time.
- [14:24]
Chad Mum
Y. It does, it does. So you saw this, like, big boom during COVID where people, you know, who are working from home, all of a sudden you had more time to golf. I think another piece of it was there was a lot more forms of golf that are a lot more accessible now. So I. I'd actually give a lot of credit to topgolf for creating this kind of cultural thing where like, it became like a date night thing. Now I don't think people are going to topgolf, like every night or every week, but it's definitely like, instead of going bowling or to a movie, like, let's go to topgolf. Let's dress up cute and like, go on a date night and bring some friends, have a couple drinks, eat some bar food, and like, hit some golf balls. And so that's a really, like, low stakes way to kind of get a golf club in your hands and have make it gamified and have some fun. I think, you know, simulators now are popping up. So if you're in New York City, there's a place called five Iron Golf, which started out when I lived there. It was like probably 2012. I think the first one opened. Now there's I think maybe like 10 in New York City. And that's another just thing to do, you know, instead of going bowling. So I think it's partly that. And I also think that golf has benefited a lot from famous people playing it and becoming obsessed. I think that's been a huge reason why the stigma around golf being just kind of for like, old white, rich guys has gone away. Because you, you know, famous people have always played. We started the podcast talking about it. I mean, our home club, like Bing Crosby was a member and like Frank Sinatra, and there's just all these legendary stories about all these famous people who golf, but now they're golfing and they're posting about it on Instagram, and that's like a new thing. And so, you know, if you're a casual sports fan and you have this preconceived notion about golf in your head, but now you see Saquon Barkley who's like, hey, all I want to do when I'm not playing football is golf. And by the way, he, like, looks great because there's all these cool brands that now make cool golf clothes and it's not as stuffy. And, you know, you've got rappers playing golf and musicians and actors and. And I think all that stuff showing up in social media. Golf's also a perfect sport for social media content because it's this mix of, like, action and things happen, but also there's a lot of space for conversation and humor and character building and things like that. So. So I think it's. It's not one thing. I like to think full swing had a. Had a. Had a bit of an impact on that. He's definitely brought, like, pro golf. Yeah. Into. Into people's living rooms in a real way. And I think, again, did a pretty good job of like, getting rid of some of the stigma around pro golfers being just like boring robots or being just kind of like rich country club kids, because not a lot of the people in full swing, like, grew up with a silver spin in their mouth. I mean, most of those pro golfers are, like, pretty middle class or, like, less and. And really had to work their ass off. Like, the spoiled kids, like, don't have the drive to make it so. So I think that really comes across in full swing too. So, you know, and we often. I often talk about golf having its kind of hoops culture moment, and I think it does parallel a little bit, like, where, you know, over the last 20 years, basketball kind of became part of mainstream culture. You know, a lot of that was driven by sort of golf, Twitter and Instagram. And all of a sudden, basketball wasn't just a thing you were a fan of. It was like a lifestyle that you could be a part of. And that includes, like, sneakers and streetwear and hip hop and all that created this, like, loud megaphone. And the NBA was like, really smart about embracing that and kind of growing on the back of it. Golf is in that same phase, maybe where that hoops culture was probably 15 years ago. But interestingly, it's being driven from, like, I think a much more grassroots, like, ground up way, it's not like the league, you know, the PGA Tour, sort of engineering it. It's much more kind of consumer driven. Which is, which is, I think, another testament to like, what makes the sport great. Because there's very few pro sports that people watch on TV that you can also go and do. You know, I'd say maybe like tennis is one of them, skiing, but you know, there's not a lot of like skiing races on tv. So golf, golf is a thing that's on TV every single weekend on major national networks. And it's a thing that you can go and do. And, and so it has this cool mix of like fandom and hobbyist. And, and it's also like deep enough where like you get into it. If you become obsessed with it, it's kind of all you think about and all you want to do. And, and you know, these celebrities are just as obsessed as like everyone else. And people see that and I think it reinforces like, hey, we should go give golf a try.
- [18:32]
Wells Adams
One of the things about golf that's kind of different from other sports is because it's an individual sport, it allows you to show off like your individuality. And I think a lot of people have been really gravitating to that, especially women, because all of a sudden it became, you know, it was stuffy khakis, you know, collared starch shirts, and now it's like total fashion. And that's another thing that has come out of like the influencer portion of it is people getting to kind of show off their flair a little bit. And you know, I, I make the joke all the time, like, I might not be able to play good, but I want to look good out there, which adds this like, kind of like little extra thing to it. The other thing that I think that helped grow the game a lot is those influencers and those content creators and YouTube effectively, like, those guys are getting so many eyes on the game and they're showing a different aspect of it. You know, it's not just the best of the best doing, you know, shooting 20 under in a four day tournament. It's these guys playing funny games or playing games on each other or pranking them on the course and stuff. And kind of showing how like the thing about golf is, is that it is the most fun thing to do when you go out with your friends, you know, And I think a lot of people that had never played golf or don't really know anything about it, they don't, they have no concept of that. And Then all of a sudden, you see it on YouTube, like, oh, my God, this looks like so much fun. You drive around in a golf cart, drink some beers, talk trash to your friends, like, and sometimes hit a good shot. It's like the best thing ever. And then afterwards, you go get a hot dog and, you know, have a. A martini with your boys and maybe you won some money. And all of a sudden it's like, this was the best day ever. And so, Yeah, I think YouTube really, really helped kind of show what that was.
- [20:25]
Alison Couch
I'm going to say emphasize on the. Sometimes you get a good shot. I grew up one of the stuffy country club kids, and it's crazy because back then, I hated golf. My parents belonged to a country club, and they like to have their. My parents are like, listen to this. And they're like, oh, my God, she's exposing us. But my parents signed us up at the country club for swim lessons and then tennis lessons and then golf lessons. So at the end of the day, I'd be done at 2pm and my parents would come and pick me back up from the country club. But back then, the only thing that I liked about golf at that time was the fact that I got to drive a golf cart. And it was really just because I was not 16 yet. But now I feel like if I was in the same position I was back then, seeing all these social media stars, influencers, celebrities, athletes, going out, having a fun time, I would have glamorized, glamorized it way more than I did back then where I dreaded it. 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- [27:30]
Chad Mum
Great.
- [27:30]
Alison Couch
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- [29:40]
Wells Adams
I was the same way. I did tennis camp and golf camp and swimming camp at all at the Carmel Valley Ranch, our country club. And I remember it was nerdy to play, like, on being on the golf team. I don't think that's the case anymore. Like, I think it's cool to play golf, and I attribute that to all these celebrities and all these athletes being like, yeah, I do this. What? And then everyone's like, oh, this is.
- [30:03]
Chad Mum
Yeah. I mean, you can't. I can't think of another sport where, like, you know, the biggest stars, they all. This is all they do in their off season. So just take, like, use Josh Allen as an example. Like, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning. Like, Peyton Manning is a member at Augusta National. Eli Manning, same thing. You know, these are. These are, like, sports superhero icons. And when you don't see them in uniform, if you see them on social media, they're most likely have a golf club in their hand. And I think that. I mean, that has such a huge impact. I mean, certainly, like, when I was a kid, I love football and I love golf, and, you know, it was, like, dorky to be a golf fan until kind of Tiger woods that sort of took it into a whole new kind of cultural space. But you never knew about other athletes playing golf. You didn't know. You know, come to find out, like, John Elway loves golf and, you know, all these, like, quarterbacks and icons of my era. You know, actually, the first day that I joined our private club in la, I go to the driving range, and I. There's only one spot left on the range. And so I'm trying to warm up before my first ever round as a member. And there was Marcus Allen to my right, and then Joe Pesci to my left. And I'm like, what have I emerged into? You know, this is, like, the coolest thing ever. I remember, like, going home and telling my wife, like, this is the coolest thing ever. Like, and also, I got to play golf that day, you know?
- [31:17]
Alison Couch
Yeah.
- [31:18]
Chad Mum
She's like, you're cute. Can you come home now? It's like, no.
- [31:21]
Alison Couch
Like, it's been 12 hours. Is that, like, when are you gonna come home? Can you guys spill the tea on who are, like, the top celebrity golfers then?
- [31:30]
Chad Mum
Oh, no doubt we can. Yes.
- [31:31]
Wells Adams
Yeah.
- [31:32]
Alison Couch
Yeah.
- [31:32]
Chad Mum
Wells, why don't you go ahead?
- [31:36]
Wells Adams
Let's see. Marty Fish is, I think, the best one. He's a former tennis player. He was a Davis cup captain. He has won an insane amount. So there are. There are. There's, like, this circuit of celebrity golf tournaments, and I play in a couple of them, but, like, Marty Fish plays in all of them, and I think he won. I think he won five or six last year. And these all pay out pretty well. Like, if you win, it's, you know, it's six figures. It's. It's kind of wild. So he's number one. I think that a lot of people would put Tony Romo up there. He is an amazing golfer. He is a guy who's tried to qualify for, like, the US Open and stuff and gotten really, really close. He plays in the AT T Pro Am a lot, which is over in Pebble Beach. And that was one of the first places where I finally realized that golf was cool. And I saw, like, Kevin Costner and Bill Murray playing in these things.
- [32:32]
Chad Mum
Steph. I put Steph in that book.
- [32:34]
Wells Adams
Very good. I. I've heard that Rafael Nadal, albeit a terrible swing, is very, very good, which doesn't shock me at all. Aaron Rodgers is very good. Larry Fitzgerald is very good. Derek Low, the World Series, Boston pitcher is very good. I mean, there's a lot of them, and they're all, like. They're not vanity indexes. They're all like, scratch and very, very good.
- [32:59]
Chad Mum
I'd say, like, other names, you know, probably would surprise you. So, you know, one of our podcast guests, Charlie Day from Always Sunny in Philadelphia, I. I'd say he's probably the best, like, actor, golfer, at least. Maybe has the. The highest potential or has, like, gone the lowest for celebrities. Bateman's a good golfer. You know, he's. He could be, like. He could be really good when he ever. If he ever retires from acting. He's just, like, very focused on his work, but he's got a great golf swing. And, yeah, I'd say. I'd say, like, that group would probably be the cohort of, like, best golfers. We had Sean Malto, who's a pro skateboarder, come on the show. He's. He's a stick like Sean Malto. You wouldn't think that you get a lot of skateboarder golfer crossovers. He talks about, you know, being a kid, like, in the skate scene in Kansas City where he grow up, and, like, he have to lie to his friends about, like, what he was doing in the afternoon. You know, he'd be like, oh, I'm just resting. And he was like, at the golf course, you know, and now it's like the fact that he's a good golfer for sure. They're all jealous, all those, all the skateboards are jealous of how good he is at golf.
- [33:58]
Wells Adams
But it's also not different. Like all skateboarding. Skateboarding is okay, so hear me out and I'll tell you why I think it's very, very similar. Skateboarding is trying something over and over and over and over and over and over again until you get it right, until you perfect it. That's all golf is, is swinging and trying to get it, you know, on plane and through the ball and in the sweet spot. And so it's very, it's very similar. And I, and I brought this up when we had Malto on of like, why I think he's so good is he is the most patient golfer I've ever seen. You know, golf is notorious for people breaking clubs over their legs and throwing, you know, rakes into the forest and queue up Chad's new movie in Happy Gilmore. But, but he is so like level headed and calm. And I think it's because he, you know, his, his sport is, listen, I don't land every trick, you know, and like, it's the same with golf is you don't make hole in ones on every try. And the other thing about Malta that I love is skateboarding. Obviously, yes, it is so much different than, than golf, especially when it comes to fashion. But Malto, God damn if he doesn't pull off. He looks so freaking cool. But he looks so very Malto. Like, still looks like a professional skateboarder, but like, good on the golf course. And I love that intersection of those two things. I think it's so interesting and so cool.
- [35:25]
Alison Couch
I'm picturing cargo shorts on a golf course.
- [35:31]
Chad Mum
It's like, it's similar. He wears like baggier fits, but he'd have like, you know, big, baggy pleated pants, you know, maybe a mock neck. Like you could see him skating in it, but somehow it's still apply. You know, the rules of golf, private club life still apply. And he kind of fits in between the two of them. And like Wells, for example, Wells is, you know, he looks like he's in the 1950s when he plays golf. You know, he's classic the wolves. The cashmere is the pleated pants. And it just, it is, it is one of those things we talked about earlier, but it's a chance for you to build some identity and talk about, you know, show people who you are and you know, in our like, zoom culture. Of like, online meetings, you know, people with normal jobs. It's like you don't get a chance to dress up that often in life, you know, and golf is a chance to kind of put on an outfit. And for guys, it might be like the only chance they ever get to put on an outfit. And I think it's also, you know, true for women golfers. It's like, you can dress cute like golf. There's, there's cute stuff now to wear. And so. Yeah, but Malta, Malta does the best.
- [36:27]
Alison Couch
I feel like the, it has come a long way. The golf fashion is. It depends on where you're playing golf. Correct. I mean, going to Augusta national for the Masters, I was like, okay, this is going to be cute and trendy. I was really excited to like, plan together my outfit. But, like, if I'm going to like this private club that's over by our house, I'm like, okay. I feel like I have to like, just very conservatively, like, don't want to show my shoulders. It's so interesting because there is a huge golf etiquette. And that leads me to my next question. Is there any part of golf etiquette or like a golf rule that you guys dislike?
- [37:08]
Chad Mum
I mean, I think it. So much of it now has become democratized in that a lot of that etiquette is pretty localized, so you get a pretty wide variance from like golf course to golf course or club to club. And there's definitely stuffy clubs and, and, and casual clubs. And actually there's a new brand of super ultra exclusive private clubs that have developed around these, like, discovery land properties where you see a lot of these athletes actually playing on social media. And like, there's no rules. Like, you can play in flip flops or no shoes, no shirt, it doesn't really matter. There's tequila stations every three holes. It's like a big party and, and that, you know, that's like a private club that. I mean, these are millions of dollars to join these places, and they're just as exclusive and hard to get into as like the big stuffy ones. I think there's, there's fewer and far between these old school clubs that kind of like feel like the clubs from Caddyshack or something, where all the rules, everybody has to be prim and proper and there's all this like, stuffy old money. I think golf's boomed enough where it's, it's gotten noticeably younger and cooler and so people are a little more, you know, a little more open to, you know, Music on the course, things like that. The other side of it is I actually think that, that, you know, that's what makes golf cool too, is like you can go from a casual no shoes, like drinking, a bunch of taking shots, like having a good time to like a classic place that's a hundred years old that has all this history. And there's definitely like a place for that too. And you know, you can feel the old ghosts of golf. I heard that described to me once and I really love that. And credit to John Buscemi, who's a fashion designer, who told me that phrase. But he, he said golf has old ghosts more than any other sport. And I, and I think that's really true. And because it's so much of it is built into the sense of place of like these courses and these clubs. And you know, very few other sports have such a wide variance in like the places where you play the sport. You know, maybe like surf breaks and stuff, or skiing mountains, I guess, but like, you know, tennis, the courts are all the same. It's, you know, golf has that variance. And so I think there's definitely room for the super stuffy old school places, more of a pay respect to the old ghosts of those places. But more and more you're seeing a lot more laid back approach and, and honestly, golf's become a huge business in the United States. And I think these newer clubs have realized that like this generation that's coming in, they are more casual. Especially you know, the Millennials and now Gen Z. As they start to pick up golf, it's like they, they have to find a way to kind of attract that audience. And, and some people are attracted to the old school and the money, like I'm gonna do my thing. But others are attracted to just like, hey, we're gonna go get some exercise, we're gonna be in the sun, we're gonna dress up cute, we're gonna have some fun. And, and I do think like there is room for all of it.
- [39:42]
Alison Couch
And I mean, going off of like the stuffy old school, like old typical golf. I have to say that growing up in my country club and other country clubs that I had visited, there was always a men's grill, but there was never a woman's grill. So I feel like it's in the past has been a very male dominated sport. So I'm interested to hear from both of you on how you think that golf has evolved now in terms of supporting women golfers and also people who want to watch golf that are women.
- [40:17]
Wells Adams
Well, I can take this because I play in. I play in a Pro Am with the LPGA women. And so I've played now with professional men. I've done a Champions Tour, and I've played with professional women. And like, you don't understand how good these women are. Like, it's insane how freaking talented they are. And, you know, the stereotype of them not hitting the ball as far is kind of real. They're shorter and, you know, they're, you know, Scotty Scheffler is like six, three. And you know, these guys are big guys, but it doesn't matter. Like, they are so laser precise. And, you know, I have a big following of, of females because of the television show that I'm on is primarily my demo. So I go and play in these things. And I think what I hope for the most is that men are going to watch men golf stuff. But I, I want more women to be supporting the women at the lpga because I'm out there and I think it's amazing what they're doing and they, we need to get like, more eyes on them. And one of the things that I think that would help immensely is if they had a tournament with the PGA and the LPGA played together and you just put the girls up, maybe a tee box or two, and then all of a sudden it's level playing field because those girls aren't going to. Yeah. Put the rough up like crazy. Those girls never miss fairways. They hit greens and fairways constantly, whereas the boys are just spraying balls left and right and kind of bomb and gouge. And I think that that would change a lot of, you know, kind of the perception that it's just this male driven thing. It's not like the LPGA is first of all worldwide, huge in Asia, huge in Europe, and. And I just think that we need to get more eyes on it. And then all of a sudden it's going to. This, the, the, you know, the kind of stereotype of like, women are all bad at golf thing will start to dissolve away and women are slow and all that kind of stuff. And once that happens, then I think that golf will be in a much healthier place. And I think we're on the right, you know, the, the right track. Like they did the match not too long ago, which was. Chad, did you do that? Were you in charge of the match when they had.
- [42:31]
Chad Mum
I was not. No.
- [42:32]
Wells Adams
Okay, sorry.
- [42:33]
Chad Mum
They had women and men playing together.
- [42:35]
Wells Adams
Yeah. And it was great. And it was like, this is so good to see. And Obviously, very, very helpful to. To shine more light and more eyes on the female golfer out there. The other thing about female golfing, my wife doesn't play golf, but she loves to go to the country club and dress up and drink rose on the balcony. And I have this thing, we have this deal that I can go play golf when I want to go play golf, but I have to text her when I'm on 16. And then she puts on her cute little, you know, country club outfit and comes out, and then she's always there with a glass of Chardonnay or a glass of 18, and then sit down and have a lovely lunch, and it usually turns into drinks and dinner. And I, you know, I. I've done. I've worked really, really hard to have her perception of this thing that I love also be something that she loves. And I think that that's the thing that we probably need to do a better job of as men is being more inclusive to women with the whole golf thing. Because I think what ladies are upset about is that we're gone for five hours, then we come home drunk and, you know, whatever. But if you include them, then all of a sudden it changes and it's a party out in the, you know, a beautiful park, effectively.
- [43:50]
Alison Couch
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It pays to Discover see terms@discover.com credit card I feel like, you know, I'm in a family of trendsetters because my husband has never picked up a golf club. Not. Not like seriously. Anyway, I think maybe one time we took a golf lesson. But I am the golfer of the family, which is very like roles reversal. And my mom actually had a full ride because she was a golfer in college. So golf runs deep through my veins. And I think men need to take a lot of notes. From what Wells just said is like the typical you go on social media, women are complaining, oh my God, my husband want golf today. Yada yada yada. If you just invite the women into it, I I'm sure, they're going to be happy with, like, being involved into it, and then they're going to want to go golfing. All of a sudden, you have a golf membership. You guys are belonging to a club. Like, it's great. It just needs to be more of like a. I don't know, there's just such a story beyond the, oh, I'm going to go golfing, my wife's going to be mad type of thing. And that's where I'm like, even that will help. Help the women be more interested in woman golfers. Like, there's a full picture there. But it's. I'm glad that you brought up your wife, Wells, because you guys are both married men. How do your wives feel about the golf obsession?
- [50:31]
Chad Mum
Well, Wells just, you know, has done a great job of, like, bringing Sarah in and getting her excited about the lifestyle around golf. You know, my wife is kind of the same way. You know, I'm. I get a different excuse because golf is sort of my job, you know, and I've worked in golf. I've done full swing, and now I work. And I own a golf company that focuses on the sport. So I can kind of say it's all for work. But, you know, I've tried to do the same thing. I've tried to include her on trips. I've tried to make our club a home for her. And it's been kind of the same thing. Like, she. She'll meet me after rounds, we'll have dinner. I mean, we have three kids, so, you know, that's been a huge thing, too. Like, the same kind of bringing them out, not forcing them to become golfers, but just, like, having them associate the club as a place that's, like, fun, and it's a family thing. It's not just them and their dad out there. It's like, the mom is there, too, and we're like, we'll just get a cart and drive out to the halfway house to get candy, like, and drive back and that, you know, we've been doing that since they were toddlers. And so for them, like, just being out there, it's a positive experience. And, you know, there's a nice pool and we can kind of. We're part of the social life of the club. And so, you know, that's been a huge boon for us. It was definitely harder, you know, before I joined a private club, because you're, you know, the rounds are longer. It's not like, you know, my wife was going to come out and meet me at the Munich Municipal bar and sit in there, you know, so does make it a bit easier for. To include your wife when you are at a private club. But I do think, you know, she loves the resort golf, too. Like, that's the other thing is we've sort of built it into trips when we've gone on vacation together. And, you know, maybe we'll try to play, like, one round of golf, but then we'll bring her out and she'll play with, you know, it's not a serious round. It's like just the two of us. And some of my favorite memories of us together have been, like, playing the golf while on vacation. And it's just so laid back and casual. It's like such a great, like, entree into this, you know, into the sport. And then it's like, yeah, well, all we're gonna do is, like, sit by the pool anyway today, so let's go be outside and drive around and have a couple drinks and enjoy ourselves.
- [52:33]
Alison Couch
You're kind of influencing me because we actually have a trip coming up, and we're going to the Four Seasons in Cabo and we get a free round of golf. And I was. I was going to sit by the pool, but now I'm kind of influenced to go ahead and. And trail my husband. Well, I don't know why he's going, because he doesn't really know how to golf, but that's a different story. But Chad, you and my husband are very similar in that my husband will tell me he's working out, and he's like, but it's for work. I'm like, that worked when you were in the NFL, but you're no longer in the NFL, so you can't say, like, you're going to work and you're going to the gym. So I think that's hilarious.
- [53:07]
Chad Mum
I don't know how long that excuse is going to continue to work, but it seems to be working so far. And so. But I do. Yeah, I do love it. Yeah, no, this is all for work. Oh, yeah, no, I got to go on that golf trip. It's all. It's all relationship building. But are you guys. But no, she, she. I. I always. Golf is a great, like, background thing to have on. So it's not as. As. It's not as lean forward as, like, maybe the NFL is, you know, so, yeah, when sports are on for us, it's. It's probably golf on the weekends, but. But also most of our weekends, I'm like, checking the score on my phone. Because I'm, like, running around with the kids. I mean, that is the one thing. So my. I've sort of made that deal with my wife where I pretty much never play on the weekends. So I. I kind of. Like, my time is, like, Friday afternoons I sort of block off golf, and then I get to play. I do get to play work golf, so I can excuse myself from work to play on, like, a Tuesday. But. But for the most part, like, I don't play on the weekend, so I am, like, around. But. But that's more for the three kids, you know, And. And to try to remain married is the goal. So. But we do actually, even on the weekends, spend a lot of time, like, at the club. We'll just go to the pool and we'll hang out, and we'll drive out and get snacks at the snack shack. Happy wife, happy life, no question.
- [54:19]
Wells Adams
Another thing that is a really good entryway for women into the game. I found that taking your wife to a golf tournament, albeit sounding very boring, is a very, very fun experience, especially if you maybe splurge for, like, a wristband into kind of a nice tent that is catered with fun drinks and stuff. But there is really nothing more lovely than going out to, like, a nice golf course and just walking around with your. With your significant other or with your kids. It's. It's very fun. It's, like, very low stakes. And yeah, you go. You. You know, Sarah. Well, we go to the Genesis, which is at Riviera every year, which is beautiful. Anyways, I grew up in Pell beach, so we go to the AT T every year, which is beautiful to walk around. You know, you went to the Masters, which is, like, one of the coolest sporting experiences I've ever been to. And I've been to a Super bowl and a World Series Game 7 National Championship. And that was the thing that I thought was, like, one of the coolest things ever. And then to my surprise, my wife was like, that was the most fun we've had on an outing, going to the Masters. Obviously, that's a tough, tougher ticket to get, but that's a way to get, I think, the ladies into it. Be like, listen, let's just go out, have a couple drinks, walk around, and then get the hell out of here. Go have a nice dinner afterwards, and you'll, like, win brownie points. And, like, if you're a big golfer, you can, you know, follow around the one guy you like or whatever, and it becomes, like, a really lovely, you know, little date day.
- [55:48]
Alison Couch
Yeah, I was gonna say hand me a glass of chardonnay and I'm happy.
- [55:52]
Chad Mum
Oh yeah. Well, I also, I like that you mentioned low stakes wells, because I feel like going to like, you know, getting organized and going to a baseball game or a football game or a NBA game or something. It's. You kind of have to be in your seats and you're sort of locked in and if you get up, you kind of feel like you're gonna miss stuff. And you know, even if you're in like a suite or the boxes, it's still like everyone's watching the thing. But like going to a golf tournament, it's way more self directed. And so it's like going on a walk and a picnic combined. And there also happens to be some sports playing and so you might get to cheer. Someone hits a great shot, you're kind of part of the crowd. You get like, you get all of the beats of a pro sporting event, but in a much more like self directed, you know, unguided tour version of it. And, and it is really kid friendly. It is very wife friendly and wife approved. And again, you get to dress up like you might dress up to go to an NBA game or an NFL game, but probably not, you know, like you'll, you'll dress cute but like you can really get dressed up to go to a PGA Tour LPGA tour event.
- [56:47]
Alison Couch
Oh yeah, absolutely. I didn't realize how fun it actually is to go to a golf tournament. It's crazy cuz the only golf tournament I've ever been to was the Master. So it's a pretty intense one at that. But the, it's way more sociable than I thought because you're right, like you're, you can follow around your favorite golfer or you can sit at one of your favorite holes and just watch all of the golfers come. But there's so much idle time in between strokes and golfers and you can go and get snacks and it's way more of like a group activity than I originally thought. I brought my dad, he was great. We had a few glasses of chardonnay. Great time. But it is interesting because I feel like you could, that's something you could do with a group of friends.
- [57:29]
Chad Mum
Yeah. And, and then to your point, I think that's also a bit why golf is such a great social sport in general is even, you know, not just watching it, but even playing it. You know, there's, there's lots of time to get to know people in between shots and riding in a cart Together and then the post round drink. And it's, it's different from like pickup basketball or something like that. I, I think the only other activity that I found that's similar is maybe skiing with the group because, you know, you, it's a mix of like action and then waiting because you're on the lifts together and you get a chance to spend some time. But, but golf has that like inherent sociability built into it, which by the way is actually, I think part of the reason why full swing, like works as a show not to bring it back to, to full swing, but the golfers are all used to like talking to people their whole lives. And like, if you're an elite golfer at 12 years old, like you're going to play with a lot of old men, you know, and you're going to be like in foursomes and groups and you get paired up with people and you got to spend four hours with them, so you might as well be talking to them. And so like, compared to a lot of other athletes from other sports, like, golfers tend to be like pretty good conversationalists, you know, not all of them, but for the most part, like they are comfortable kind of making conversation and you know, they're surrounded by like, like bank executives and things like that. And so they, they tend to be pretty well spoken, which I, which I found to make them like really great interviews because they actually like have something to say and they have some point of view and you know, they've seen a lot of humanity out there.
- [58:47]
Alison Couch
So it's funny, I'm like, if you have social anxiety, try going to a golf course because you are gonna quickly find out you need to hold a conversation with a 70 year old man about how his golf swing is or if he, if he looks good in the slacks that he's wearing or yada yada. I think that that's funny you say that because early on I was having conversations with all of my parents, friends just about golf and random life things. And it's so true. I have to ask, do you guys have a favorite golf course and do you have a course that you want to play at?
- [59:23]
Wells Adams
Oh, Chad's got to play all of them, which is bs man. I'm still trying to catch up up. I think I got to play St. Andrews this year, which was, is the home of golf, and I got to play the old course. And that was, it was like the closest thing to a religious experience that I think I've ever had while playing it. But I will say because of my bias and nostalgia that I think that pebble beach is the most beautiful golf course and if I got to play pebble every single day, it would be a good life lived. And I've instructed my wife that she needs to spread some of my ashes on, on either the 7T box or, you know, the 8 cliff. So, yeah, that, those are the. And then I, I would love to play Augusta now. Chad has gotten to do that. And so I'm hoping that this, if this podcast does nothing but gets me on Augusta, it will be worth it.
- [60:27]
Alison Couch
What makes a, a golf course good?
- [60:30]
Wells Adams
It's how it suits your eye. For me, the view and that, that's basically a way of saying that, like, to me it's easier because it like, suits my, and like the way that my ball is shaped but usually has to do with the surroundings. Like, you know, I said Pebble Beach, I said St. Andrews and I said Augusta. Those are probably the three most beautiful places like, in the world, you know, like, and also the people there, like, Saint Andrews is a good example of that. Like, all the people there like, really made the experience so very, very cool. And like Chad was saying before, like, you can feel the ghost, the old ghosts of golf in that town. You know, it's a really, really old town. And for all those things, I, I, the history is, I think the thing that always is the thing that, that draws me back.
- [61:21]
Chad Mum
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to answer your question for me, I think, you know, my favorite golf course I've ever played. It's hard to say Augusta because that's like what everybody says. That experience of playing Augusta though, I think was the best experience of golf that I've ever played. The hospitality, you know, being a guest there is, is really like nicer than any five star hotel or three Michelin starred restaurant, which I've been, you know, lucky enough to go to a lot of those places. And it's just the, the absolute commitment to like making guests have the greatest experience ever. Knowing that maybe it's the only time in their life they get to set foot on that property is like very special. I've never really experienced hospitality like that, but in terms of like the pure golf, I'm kind of with Wells. I, I love the Old Course at St. Andrews in Scotland. It's the only, I've only played it once and it was one of the few times that I walked off a golf course and immediately just like wanted to go back to the first hole and play it again because it was just such a combination of, like, the history and the heritage. And it's just such a weird landscape, too. Completely so opposite of, like, American golf in terms of, you know, the grass is brown and the bunkers are hilly and. And, you know, it just. The whole way it plays is so unique. So I thought it was really fun in terms of American golf, you know, close. Close to Wells, my favorite place in the world is Cypress Point Golf Club, which is just down the street from Pebble Beach. And. And it's partly, again, I think it's. There is. It's a very exclusive club, so I'm, you know, lucky enough to have been invited out there to play it. But. But the. The whole. As a couple of famous holes, the sort of 15th, 16th and 17th are kind of on this cliff, you know, overlooking the Pacific Ocean. And you. You get there for the first time, and it's honestly maybe the most beautiful place I've ever stood, like, period. Like, putting aside that there's a golf hole there, but it's just stunning. And I think the audacity that they had, whoever, you know, when they built that course, the vision to see that landscape and be like, oh, let's put a golf course here. I mean, it's. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever stood. And then you get to play golf on it, which is. Which is really, really special. So, you know, I agree with Wells. Like, the, you know, a course that suits your eye is one that feels forgiving, and it feels kind of like accessible and easy, but that still challenges you. And. And I think that, you know, it's. I've been lucky enough to have a lot of really great experiences, and some of them are at these ultra exclusive clubs, and those are unique because you feel the history and you kind of feel like you're tapping into something older. And that's. That's really neat. But then also, you know, you go to a place like pebble beach, which is a resort that you can go and pay and get on, and. And it's. It is also spectacular. So tough to say. I've gotten a chance to play a lot of really cool places.
- [63:54]
Alison Couch
Yeah, I'm kind of jealous. I'm gonna have to obviously expand my horizons when it comes to how many. How many courses I'm playing at. But for me, it's always like, I just want a good view. If I'm playing golf, I want a good view, and. And that's really all I care about. Pretty minimal when it comes to that. But before we wrap up, I do have to ask one last question. Can you guys give a golf tip to somebody who's new to the sport of golf?
- [64:20]
Chad Mum
So my number one tip is to get the fundamentals right. And this is something that can get so easily overlooked because there's so much YouTube at golf advice and there's. You can get so hyper technical. But look, if it works for the best player in the world, then I think it's going to work for anybody who's picking up the sport. But Scotty Shuffler, to use an example, he's the number one player in the world. He really, when he practices before a big tournament, he's focused on his alignment, which has been where his feet are and making sure that they're square. And he's focused on his grip. He has this molded grip that you, you know, you could buy on the Internet for $8 on a seven iron. And he spends the majority of his time kind of getting his grip right. And so if you have the fundamentals right, if you're aligned square and your grip is good, you can do a lot right from that position. And I think where people get lost is they start to get overly technical. And golf can be infinitely technical in terms of, like, the way your angles and wrists and things like that. But ultimately, like, it's about a. You try to make an athletic move, and you try to find a swing that suits your body type. And if you can get your focus off of the technical and onto the basic fundamentals and try to make golf a reaction thing as opposed to, like a. A performance of a move that you have in your brain, it's all about kind of tricking that side of your brain to, like, letting the natural swing happen. And so I'm a big proponent of like, like basic fundamentals and trying to swing your swing. So for me, I'm always thinking about, like, my grip and my stance and then little things like tempo. You know, just repeating a mantra in my head of swing, set, move, swing, set, move. And that's kind of the way I do it. I don't know, Wells, what do you got?
- [65:52]
Wells Adams
Well, you know, the. The question is for someone that's starting out in golf, and so I agree with Chad. I have that. That alignment thing on. On one of my clubs, and I try to do that. That to make sure my grip is. Is right. But for some that's starting out in golf, I think that one of the things is, is that a lot of people get really embarrassed or nervous to. To play with other golfers who might be good and as someone who's a relatively good golfer, I could care less how good or bad you are. If we go out and play, the only thing that I want you to do is if you're going to be bad, just play bad fast. Because I just don't want to be sitting around waiting for you hitting a million shots. You know, if you, if you've, you know, hit it seven times on the whole, it's okay to just pick it up and be like, you guys finish it. I'm going to go to the next, you know, just make sure you're, you're playing fast. And then if, if you do that, then everyone will enjoy playing with you because you're not slowing them down and you're not slowing the groups behind you down, and you're not, you know, there's really nothing worse. And if you ask a lot of these tour pros what's the most annoying thing for you, they will all, almost all say slow play. And that's something that I think that if you're just starting out in golf, it's okay to be bad. Just be bad fast.
- [67:08]
Alison Couch
I, I love that. Honestly, I'm gonna remember that for when I'm playing with a group of people and I'm. Because I, I know, I know how well I play and it's not, it's not very well. Okay, well, before we end, I just have some rapid fire questions, quick this or that, and, and then we'll wrap up.
- [67:26]
Wells Adams
Up.
- [67:27]
Alison Couch
Walking the course or riding in a golf court cart?
- [67:31]
Wells Adams
All right, Chad, you go first, then I'll go. Okay.
- [67:35]
Chad Mum
Walking.
- [67:36]
Wells Adams
Walking.
- [67:38]
Alison Couch
Interesting. Early morning tea time or late afternoon?
- [67:43]
Chad Mum
Oh, early morning.
- [67:47]
Wells Adams
Yeah. Dew sweeping is fun, but there is something quite nice about having a nice cocktail and jamming out to beat the sun.
- [67:55]
Alison Couch
That kind of answers my next question. Because it's ordering a drink on the course or ordering a hot dog.
- [68:01]
Chad Mum
Oh, drink, definitely.
- [68:04]
Wells Adams
Why can't I do both? I don't understand.
- [68:06]
Alison Couch
You can definitely. What drink are you ordering?
- [68:11]
Chad Mum
I like a transfusion.
- [68:14]
Wells Adams
Yeah, it depends. For me, I try to drink beer on the course because I won't get over my skis if I have too many of them. But I do enjoy a transfusion as well.
- [68:24]
Alison Couch
Well, golf outfit, bright colors or neutral tones?
- [68:30]
Chad Mum
Oh, neutral tones these days.
- [68:33]
Wells Adams
Yeah, I'm the same, but I like the heritage look, so pleated pants and a lot of, lot of cashmeres.
- [68:44]
Alison Couch
Classic. And last but not least, trash talking on the course, yes or no?
- [68:50]
Wells Adams
Absolutely, yes, 100%. That's kind of part of it.
- [68:54]
Alison Couch
I love it. All right, guys, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Where can the listeners find you?
- [69:03]
Chad Mum
You could follow me on everything. I'm at Chad Mum C h a d m U m m and our show is the Vanity Index podcast. We are the at at Vanity Index podcast on Instagram and TikTok, things like that. Wells, what about you? You?
- [69:16]
Wells Adams
Yep. At Wells Adams and all the social medias. And yeah, go listen to if you like golf and like, if you're a golf nut like us, then please go listen to Vanity Index podcast. I think you'll enjoy it. We've got some amazing guests. I mean, you mentioned Charlie Day. We had Dexter Fowler on recently. Just a lot of celebrities coming on. Athletes and celebrities that have a very, very interesting take on golf and who are all golf sickos like us. And I think that if you are like that, then you are welcome to come hang out with us in the VIP lounge.
- [69:51]
Alison Couch
I love that. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on and thank you guys for listening to this episode of Sunday Sports Club. Be sure to tune in every Sunday for your podcast. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.