← Sunday Sports Club with Allison Kuch
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- [00:00]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. What's up, guys? Welcome back to Sunday Sports Club Podcast, a podcast all about sports. But sometimes it isn't. And at the end of the day, it's my podcast. Today I am joined by a very special guest we have on Sheri Franke, and she's the author of the book the House of My Mother A Daughter's Quest for Freedom. And I'm really excited to talk to her because I just read this book, I think it was two months ago, and ever since then I'm like, wow, like, this is such an inspirational story and, like, of strength and of just like the woman that you, like, have chosen to be in, like, a challenging time. So, first and foremost, welcome to Sunday Sports Club. For the listeners who might be new to your story, how do you like to introduce yourself now?
- [00:53]
B
It's evolved over the years. Growing up, if you'd asked me, like, five years ago, even I would have said that, you know, hi, I'm Sheri. I am a child influencer, and I'm part of my family's YouTube channel. I have my own YouTube channel. And if you were to ask me now, I never want to give people, like, the blunt answer of, like, you've probably seen my mother on the news and she is in prison and I am her daughter. That's not usually, like, the appropriate answer. So I say, I, you know, I grew up as a child influencer and I wrote a book about it, and here I am.
- [01:35]
A
Does do you think that, like, sometimes you just would like to do the blunt, like, here, like, this is what I am. That's like, take me as I am.
- [01:44]
B
Yeah. I think that when people hear me talk about a lot of it, they're like, oh, like, you seem very, like, matter of fact about it. And it's just like, at this point, like, this is my life. And it honestly would make it less awkward. Like, people at the store will be like, oh, my gosh, like, I know you. And I don't say any. Like, I, like, wait to hear what they say. And again, like, they don't want to be like, you're Ruby, Frankie's daughter. But, like, we both know that that's what they're thinking. And.
- [02:18]
A
Do you ever get asked like, oh, you look really familiar, but I can't put my finger on it.
- [02:24]
B
I do. Yes. Again, I think having stepped back a little bit from kind of, like, posting all the time, I would have usually said, like, oh, you probably saw me on Eight Passengers, and now I just kind of lights One out.
- [02:41]
A
Like, hello.
- [02:44]
B
I mean, it's not. I can turn them on, but I don't know.
- [02:51]
A
Honestly, you look great without it, so.
- [02:53]
B
Whatever you're comfortable with. But now, like, if they say, oh, you look familiar, I'll just be like, oh, crazy. And like. And it, like, it's awkward for them. And I, like, it's awkward for me too, but.
- [03:08]
A
Mm. Well, your book, the House of My Mother is raw. It's brave and also like, incredibly vulnerable. What made you feel ready to write it?
- [03:21]
B
Therapy. Honestly, I think all, like, even before everything hit the fan and growing up, I was like, I want to write a book someday about my life. And I think when everything like happened with the arrest, with the media stuff and stories were being posted by news, whatever, I was kind of like, oh. Like, I kind of want to be able to tell what actually happened because a lot of people don't know or they don't care to know. And so the book deal just kind of like landed in my lap. They approached were like, hey, like, want to write a book? And I was like, okay. And at the same time I was going to therapy and reliving a lot of it, talking about it in a way that gave me some perspective and I wanted to record all of that.
- [04:21]
A
Yeah. I think even like reading the book, I've found I was like, it was really interesting. It almost felt like you were still discovering things about your past, like while you were writing it, which I found, like, very interesting. And I'm sure a therapist was very key in being able to write that book because you're like reliving a lot of it, a lot of traumatic events that like, you shouldn't have to live the first time. And then you were writing about it. So it felt, I'm sure, like you were reliving it a second time.
- [04:53]
B
Yeah. Something that was, I had to work on as I was writing it is like the first draft I found myself being like, oh, like this happened to me when I was five, but. And then like, you know, 22 year old me would like throw in her perspective on things and we tried to keep that separate. Like, I. I really wanted to write it as if I was living it again and not put my adult perspective on it and then kind of save that. Like, I don't know what, like pondering on it or like perspectives on it more heavily until the end.
- [05:32]
A
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, what, what surprised you most about the process of writing it?
- [05:40]
B
I. I think I was surprised at how not normal a lot of it was. My childhood, I. You know, even in, like, therapy, when it's like, oh, yeah, like, my mom made us run around the block four times because, you know, we didn't do laundry, whatever. And I'd say it just, like, so nonchalantly, and they're like, oh, like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, oh, like, that is not normal. So I think I was just surprised at that. And then also just, like, laying it all out in a timeline. Like, I've gone through a lot of stuff. Putting it all out there makes it more real.
- [06:14]
A
You're like, wait, how old am I? And, like, all of this has happened in, like, my very short span of life.
- [06:20]
B
Yes. I like to think that I'm getting, like, all my hardships in life over at the front end, because if it continues to be at this rate, I won't be great.
- [06:30]
A
Yeah, right. You're like, how much more should I be able to handle? When you first released it, like, what feelings or emotions did you feel or, like, hit you first?
- [06:41]
B
Honestly, I. I remember flying to New York City to do some press coverage for it, and I literally left right after my final that I had at school. And then I came back and it was. Came out, released, and then I went back to school. So it was like, more strange of just, like, I am still going to school and living my life, and my life really hasn't changed, but now this book is out there. But I. It was exciting to see people get excited about it, and the reception's been really great.
- [07:17]
A
Yeah, I. I can't imagine the reception would have been bad. I mean, anybody that has anything negative to say about the book, you're, like, interesting.
- [07:26]
B
Hi, Ruby.
- [07:28]
A
Yeah. You're like, okay, but when people tell you that, like, they loved your book, is it almost like. Like, do you understand? Like, they're not saying they loved what happened to you, but you're like, oh, like, I'm sure they're, like, admirable about my bravery or my strength or, like, my vulnerability.
- [07:46]
B
Yeah, we definitely. As I was writing it and working on it, I didn't want it to just be, like, a rehashing of, like, literal events that happened because you could go to the news and read that. And for some people, they find that interesting and fascinating. And I didn't, like, I didn't want that to be the emotional reaction that people came away from the book with. And so, yeah, when people say, you know, oh, I really liked your book, it helped me realize X, Y, and Z. Yeah, the reception's been good in that way.
- [08:16]
A
Well, yeah, that was. My next question is, what do you hope people take away from your book, especially those who haven't experienced something like this? Because I would bet to say, like, a lot of people reading the book have not experienced something like this.
- [08:30]
B
I think that, like, all the parts together. Yes, you probably have not, you know, been raised by a narcissistic mother, joined a cold ex, you know, like, all, like, very unique. But I have found that a lot of people, I get a lot of messages that are like, hey, I had never heard of the, the Fawn trauma response. And now I realize that that's something I deal with. And so, you know, it's helped me in therapy or, oh, my mother, you know, was also a narcissist and this helped me feel seen. So, like, I think that there's. Because there's so much that I've gone through, I think everyone can relate, like in some small way to just part of it. And I think that that's what's really resonated with people.
- [09:13]
A
And I mean, yeah, I think there are so many different parts of your story and your upbringing that like, I found myself relating to, like, certain little parts, but definitely not the whole story in general.
- [09:27]
B
Yeah.
- [09:30]
A
So obviously a huge topic is children when it comes to social media. And you have been an advocate, so you've been an advocate against family vlogging and for online child protection. Can you talk more about the moment you realized that you wanted to take on this cause?
- [09:48]
B
Yeah, I. I don't think it was until I, like, moved out of the house for college that I like, really fully appreciated, like, how upset I was about everything that had been posted about me. But even before that, things were like, I would get sent tiktoks of, you know, 13 year old me saying something on YouTube that I wish I hadn't have said. And, you know, being reminded of it, like, people, like, there was this big thing that people thought my brother and I were like, dating. And I remember, like, I was 17 years old, I had to go to the hospital for something and I posted a picture about it and I got a lot of people that were like, oh, are you having your brother's abortion? Like, from his baby? And like, as a 17, like, I mean, as any regular person, like, that's awful. But as a kid too, I was like, that's just like, it affected my relationship with him off the camera. So, like, things like that I think had just added up over the years. And it got to the point where I was like, I can't take off everything that's post. Like even if eight passengers were taken down, which it is now, all that footage is still out there somewhere. And I think realizing that like 13 year old Sherry is always on the Internet and always will be made me want to help other kids not have to go through that.
- [11:19]
A
Totally. I think it's also just like you're going to make mistakes growing up, right? Like you're going to say like things that you probably don't want on the Internet or you're going to like do something. I think of like my most embarrassing child moments and like if somebody was recording that, I'm sure it would have gotten a lot of views but it also probably would have brought a lot of embarrassment. And I'll still think about the embarrassing moments every now and then at the grocery store and I'm like, oh, like I don't want to think about that. And I can only imagine the feeling of like other people reliving that as well and being like, wow, that was really embarrassing.
- [11:54]
B
Yeah.
- [11:55]
A
Especially as a child. I feel like you're already growing up with so many peers and like everybody's going through changes hormonal and friendships and social and allowing people that insight and allowing them to have an opinion.
- [12:09]
B
Yeah, yeah. And it like, it makes it hard now too where it's like, I feel like I've had to mature really fast for, you know, many reasons. But now it's like I feel like I can't. Like I'm still 22. Like I'm really not that old and I still make mistakes, but I feel like I can't make those mistakes, especially publicly because then it's like, oh, you are like your mother or you are, you know, oh my God, a stupid kid. So like I like it sets me up also for having to be extra cautious.
- [12:45]
A
Absolutely. It's actually crazy that you're 22 is so young to me, not like young. I look at you as like a child. But it is crazy the amount of life you have lived and you're only 22 and it does feel like you are like wise beyond your years probably because of the accumulation of everything you've gone through and like having to like stand up for yourself in so many different ways. What do you wish the general public understood about the long term impact of turning kids into content?
- [13:16]
B
I. I mean it really starts to affect like our family relationships offline as well. Like I said, like it affected my relationship with my brother for a while of like, we can't stand next to each other. In pictures and we can't give each other hugs. And you know, we joke about it now, but for a while it was, you know, a genuine thought. And I think a lot of people, especially viewers of family content, kind of have this like trophy family that they have that's like, oh, well, like this happened to you. But like this person that I watch, they are not like that. And I guess I would, like, how would they know? You are never going to see the footage of the parents yelling at the kids because they're not smart. Why would they air that? You're never going to see it. And so there's just no possible way to know that what happened to my family isn't also happening behind camera to someone else. And so I think that is one thing that I think people have a misconception of is they look at my family and they're like, well, your mom was just crazy like everybody else. Like family content. That wasn't the issue. It was your mother that was the issue. And that definitely, you know, compounded on the problems. But family vlogging still was kind of the base for sure.
- [14:50]
A
It the. When I think of like family vloggers or like people who share their children on social media, it's hard for me to rationalize and like, like, in a way divide it from, oh, they're just sharing their like organic, like everyday life and then knowing like, well, you're making money and you know, like when your child does something, oh, that's going to get a lot of views, whether they do something adorable or they get hurt or something along those lines. And me and my husband, we have a daughter and we don't show her on social media for we have very different reasons. But I'm like, come to the same conclusion. But he even said, like, I would hate to ever have a moment with my child and think, wow, this is going to get a lot of views. Yeah, but that's the reality.
- [15:41]
B
Yeah, like, that was the main thought for like birthdays and vacations and holidays. It's like, those are the big money.
- [15:47]
A
Maker events and even people are, I think even your mom started vlogging during a very interesting time period where vlogging was new and so getting insight into somebody's regular everyday life. And it felt like a reality show but like, way more uncut and like, here's everything. So even like the more like intricate family dynamics of like, here's how we're parenting or here's, oh, wow, like somebody's about to wear potty training or puberty and it's, it's so interesting because people are curious and that's where, like, there's like a slippery slope surrounding the holidays. I can bet that you have at least one event, right? Like during the holidays, it's just friends and family are constantly gathering. You have the ugly Christmas sweater parties. You have Christmas Eve and then Christmas Day and then New Year's Eve and the New Year's Day. And I just feel like it's such a time for people to, like, reconnect. And during this time, sometimes I feel I get the winter ugliest. 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- [22:15]
B
I mean, I don't think it was like quite what I was expecting it to be. It was a long, like we were like the last bill. Like they had their big docket. And so I'm sitting, it's like three hours that I am sitting there. They're already over time. Like all the senators and representatives have like a meeting to go to. So, like, I, you know, like, go up to my table and I give my speech. I didn't feel like any of them were actually listening. Like a lot of them were just like on their phones. I was like, okay. But like, it, like, you know, I posted about it and the news posted about it. And so I think it had a good effect. I think maybe not on these random men up here, but I, you know, I, I am proud of going and talking about it. I was surprised at one attorney that showed up that had been hired by most of the biggest Utah family bloggers to advocate against the bill. Wow. And he texted me the other day and was like, hey, like I, you know, so happy that we were able to like, negotiate something and get this passed. If you ever again, like, I don't want to talk to you. So that was strange.
- [23:37]
A
Yeah, I'm sure you're like, I can't really, like, you are what, like, your job is like a very important part of you and, like, I don't think I want to talk to you.
- [23:47]
B
Yeah, I think I. I think I was surprised more at the backlash that I got after posting about it, and that was surprising to me.
- [23:58]
A
In my head, I'm like, isn't it very, like, black and white, like, let's protect children, like, right? I just.
- [24:05]
B
Yeah. I like, again, it's the people that say, like, well, you know, your mom was the problem. But I like to watch this family, and they're not like that. And then the family vloggers will say, oh, like, we pay our kids and we don't post things that they don't want. And then I'm like, so why would you hire someone to come lobby against a bill that requires you to pay them if you say you're already paying them?
- [24:28]
A
Right. Like, you're like, you should be fighting for your children along the same, like, guidelines that I'm fighting for children.
- [24:35]
B
Yeah.
- [24:35]
A
Do you. Do you ever sometimes hold people accountable for not seeing warning signs and, like, stepping in?
- [24:43]
B
I. I think in my case, with, like, my mother now in prison, I don't hold anyone accountable for that except for her and Jody. And you know, what they did? Like, I don't blame the viewers, honestly. If anything, they starting, like, change petitions and calling CPS over and over and over again to where they stopped coming or they just, you know, rolled off. And, like, when I called, they're like, oh, well, you know, we've already gone to your family's house because of, you know, these people. Like, it lessens what I was able to do. And so I think. And that's a very unique case, but I think where I would hold people accountable is for still supporting family content creators. Like, that's something that they can directly control is their own consumption of it. Right.
- [25:42]
A
And I mean, I would even say, like, yes, I'm sure there are family vloggers out there that have the best intentions, but between, like, your mother as, like, one end of the spectrum and, like, somebody doing it totally organically and posting it and not wanting to make money, there's definitely, like, in the middle. There's a lot of gray area. And I think that's where people should probably think a little bit more about, like. Like, why. Why is this person posting the. Their daughter, like, fully naked? Like, hmm. I should probably think more about that. Well, that.
- [26:14]
B
And, like, also, why do I want to watch this? Like, I think that most family, like, most family content creators would probably say, like, oh, we started because we want to share our family. And, you know, Keep our memories. And it's like, in that case you can share on a private account. Like that achieves your purpose. And so at some point money does become a contributing factor. And if you deny it, then like you're lying to yourself. But yeah, like I, I think the biggest thing is like, why does someone want to watch this family and watch these kids? And like I watch reality tv. Like I enjoy it, but I watch adults, you know, in reality tv. And I think that, I mean that just causes whole other issues with like parasocial relationships.
- [27:05]
A
And parasocial relationships are crazy. I mean they, they are actually insane. And I, I do think like when it comes to social media, some people are like, oh, I'm just posting to, I'm posting online. Like I'm looking at a camera. Like they're not really comprehending, like there are millions of people that are able to watch that. And if you show like every part of your life, the parasocial relationships like grow. If you're sharing every day what you're doing, what you're up to, a trip you're going on, what am I packing for the trip? Like, people are invested. I've also heard influencers state that they, a baby can't consent, but when their kids to be of age of consent, they would listen to them if they didn't want to be in content. How do you feel about that?
- [27:47]
B
I mean, age of consent is like an adult. Like I, I think that, you know, if we're going from, you know, having a romantic relationship with someone, if you're 16, you can consent to, you know, 17, like if it's a 16 year old and a 30 year old, the 16 year old can say, yes, I want this. That doesn't mean that they are actually, like it's not legal for them to consent to that. And so again, because a kid who says yes, I'm okay with being online. Why do they want that? Because they get money, they get fun trips, they get cool products. Like they're not seeing like the long term impact of that and it's on the parent to be able to say, you know, I know that this seems fun, but like you cannot, you're not capable of thinking of how this could affect you when you're an adult.
- [28:45]
A
Absolutely. I think that's where like the long term effect of social media kind of comes into play. Like even things I Posted from like 5 years ago, I'm like, should I have posted that? Like, do I in the moment, I fully wanted that content out there. Right. And like I Consented to it, but now I'm like, like, should I have done that? And so it's interesting. Like, I feel like even consent can be, like, a very gray area where, like, what does that mean? I feel like consent can be very different in various situations. Whether that be like, oh, I consent to being in this video, or I consent to being shown in a diaper. I feel like there's, I don't know, various degrees. In your personal opinion, do you think that there is a healthy amount of sharing your child online?
- [29:30]
B
I think that, like, I follow, like, on my personal account, private account, I follow family members just to, like, see how family. Like, I think that's a great thing about social media is you can, you know, follow with people, you know, but their accounts are all private where they're not doing brand deals, not trying to grow bigger. So again, I think it, when it comes to, like, when it crosses a line into I am deliberately going out of my way to make content and show my child in this content, there's no amount of that, to me, that is healthy.
- [30:09]
A
Do you think that there are any positives of a child being in a content family? I mean, positives. Not in, like, oh, they're taking free trips and getting free clothes and doing cool experiences.
- [30:21]
B
I mean, those. Those were what came to mind. But, like, the money and. Yeah, like, that was something that we were told a lot growing up was like, oh, like, okay, like, we don't have to do YouTube anymore. But just know that if, you know, you say no to this or if we stop, then we don't get to go on any more vacations. We'll have to pull you out of your school because we can't afford to stay. Like, and so as a kid, you hear that, you're like, oh, no, fine. Like, being online is a small price to pay to keep my lifestyle. But beyond that, like, there's. I can't see any benefit.
- [30:58]
A
It's interesting because I feel like, like, a typical family would be like, oh, if you don't complete your chores, like, we, like, mom then has to do that instead of working. Or like, it makes sense for a. A child to be like, oh, like, if I don't do my chores, I won't be able to go on a family vacation. But it never makes sense. Like, oh, if I don't partake in, like, actually working and recording an ad and like, saying parts of a script, then I can't go on a family vacation. It's like child labor. Like, yeah, there's like a, like, Family and like learning life skills, like being responsible for chores and then being responsible for like the family's financial state. It's like very two different things.
- [31:38]
B
And that was something that I think one of the representatives, like, he was a really old dude and I don't know if he really understood what family content was, but like one of his things was like, well, what about someone that's just like helping their family in their garage sale? Like, they're just a kid and that's a family business. And, you know, are you saying I'm like, like in no world it's not the same thing. Helping my family in a garage sale or in the family, you know, business, whatever, is very different from family content business.
- [32:11]
A
Especially when the family business is like getting millions of views, like weekly. You're like, this is a little different. I think from your perspective, what are the biggest misconceptions about the children in influencer culture?
- [32:27]
B
I. I mean, one, that they want to be doing it. Like, you know, I look back at me when my family started coming under fire for things that Ruby had posted and I remember being like, no, like, I want to be doing this. And I think Chad and I and my brother, after the very first big video came out that people were trying to get us canceled, I remember sitting and like filming an apology video, not like an explanation video with him. Like the two of us. And I think we did it like three or four times because, like, we'd show it to Ruby before she posted it and she was like, you guys look like you're being held hostage. Like, we can't post that. We got back and like film it. It never got posted. But like, like, I just, like, I don't know in what world a kid would want to be online other than the lifestyle that it can provide. If you see a kid that's smiling and happy online and people say, well, they seem to want to do it and the mom says that they won't film if the kids don't want to. It's like you have no way of knowing if that is true. Right? I think for me, like again, personally, having Ruby as my mother, always being called a mini Ruby or a Karen or whatever as like a 14 year old, that was hard. And so I like you just, you would never say that to some kid that you met at the store. So, like, why do you feel okay saying it to a kid online? I mean, and that's just the bigger social thing of like, you never know what someone's going through and you know, even like you only see a 10, 20 minute video of their lives and yeah, you have no idea what's going on behind camera.
- [34:24]
A
It is. That's the thing about when it comes to social media is like I can put out content today from a year ago and I can act like I'm in a totally different location because if I only share a, let's say a 60 second long video, like you're only perceiving what I'm allowing to share or like what I'm allowing you to see. And so even like the bigger concepts of oh, like I'm, I'm sure, like, oh, I know, she's such a great person. It's like, well, ver is editing that content meticulously, going through it, like cutting out certain parts that they don't want you to see. So like even just to have like a bigger concept of like what somebody is like at home life, my look like, it's like I don't think people actually understand that unless you're like live streaming every single day. But that sounds terrifying. Like in and of itself.
- [35:15]
B
Yes.
- [35:17]
A
Holiday party season is here. Which means we're all trying to put together outfits and outfits that make us feel like we're walking into a party with like the soundtrack playing behind us. I don't know, whenever I have a good outfit on, I feel ten times more confident. I find myself being more charismatic and going up to people that I might not know and striking up a conversation. My outfit honestly determines a lot about my day. And that's why I want to take a second to talk about Macy's. Instead of staring at my closet hoping for a miracle, I booked a free styling session with Macy's personal stylists. And I have to say, this is kind of the move. You tell them your vibe, maybe you want to look a little glam or your holiday energy is more cozy with a hint of sparkle. They can pull together pieces that feel like you, but like a little bit more elevated. Macy's stylists help you nail that balance between festive and effortless. So getting dressed actually feels fun again instead of stressful because I don't know, whenever I'm getting ready to go to like an event or a party and I don't like my outfit. It is so stressful and I'm already probably running late. So this kind of takes out all that guesswork. And the best part is that you can book a free session online or in store. So you tell them what events you have coming up and they'll do the rest. It's kind of like giving future you the gift of zero outfit panic. And you're gonna look forward to your outfit, which is a game changer. So Macy's Friends and Family event is also going on right now through December 11th with 30% off Macy's best brands. So book your appointment now so you can get all of the just for you looks the stylist will curate for you at a great price. And you can be specific when requesting, like what looks you want. I'm talking textured puffers, cozy textures, hints of sparkle, bold accents. I'm more of like a black on black kind of girl, but I don't know, maybe this will put me outside my comfort zone. So again, the Macy's Friends and Family event is going on right now through December 11th with 30 off Macy's best brands. So book your appointment now. At Starbucks, full and part time baristas get comprehensive health benefits so they have the support they need in every part of their lives, from early morning runs to school pickups to auditions. Because at Starbucks, comprehensive health coverage, including dental, vision and mental health care is just the start. Learn more@starbucks.com partners how much time do you spend on your mattress? Because honestly, after going through the first trimester of pregnancy, I'm like, wait, I spend a lot of time on my mattress. Not only because I'm sleeping on it, but because these days I'm like eating in my bed and watching TV in my bed, you know, a nap every now and then. And I, it just got me thinking, like, wait, what is in my mattress? But then I remembered I have an avocado green mattress. So I want to take a second to talk about avocado green mattress because their mission is to be one of the world's most sustainable, sustainable brand, which is the pinnacle of gots certified organic mattresses, luxury pillows, embedding, and quality American made bed frames and furniture. So they donate 1% of mattress revenue to environmental nonprofits through their membership with 1% for the planet. Their dream is a world united by sustainability and social responsibility. But not only are they socially responsible, Avocado Green mattresses are made using premium organic materials. So think Go LS certified organic latex and GOTS certified organic cotton and wool. So it's giving you that luxury performance, durability. And this impressive lineup of certifications sets her mattress apart from the rest. And I love that my daughter also sleeps on an avocado green mattress because, you know, when they're growing up, they're, I just, I always think like, what am I putting in my daughter's body and also what is around her. And I feel so confident with an Avocado mattress. Avocado mattresses are green guard gold, certified for low emissions and made safe, certified non toxic and support for growing bodies. So like, babies and children need that proper support for their growing bodies. Infants, toddlers, kids, their mattresses are soft and comfy, but very supportive to adapt to sleeping positions and different body types and support overall physical development. Avocado is a certified B corporation, so it balances purpose and profit and it is the climate label certified and as members of One Percent for the Planet, they donate 1% of all mattress revenues to environmental nonprofits. And with Code Sunday, you'll save an extra $25 on crib and kid mattresses on top of their holiday sale. That's an extra $25 off their current sale at avocado green mattress.com with the code Sunday Avocado Dream of better. You've been open about having your agency taken away from you for years. So what does your agency look like for you now in your everyday life?
- [40:33]
B
I, I've taken a big step back from, you know, content creation and honestly, now I kind of view it in a way of like, it's like I, I'll do brand things or something, but like, it's never going to be me. Like, sharing, you know, here's what I did today and here, like, I just, I don't go into that anymore. Like, I don't, it's not fun for me to do. Like, I, I don't understand people that find that fun to watch. So I, like, I, I don't talk about my private relationships. I don't talk about my, you know, work or like, that's just my own private life. And so if I do something for social media, I can, you know, clock out essentially and come home and have a regular life.
- [41:29]
A
Is that refreshing after so many years of people knowing, like, everything about you?
- [41:36]
B
It is, for sure. And I also get, you know, the occasional comment that's like, oh, Sherry is, you know, cherry picking. She blames her mom for putting her on social media and she talks about how bad it is. And Sherry wrote a book and she does, like, you can't have it both ways.
- [41:58]
A
I'm like, really? Because I think if you go through something traumatic, you should be able to, like, make the best of your situation.
- [42:05]
B
Yeah. And so it's like, I, I, like, I, there have been things in my life that I wouldn't have if I hadn't done YouTube and that doesn't make the bad things okay.
- [42:21]
A
Yeah. How do you personally protect your privacy now? Especially after growing up without privacy?
- [42:29]
B
Yeah, I, like I said, I don't talk about my work or my relationships. I don't, I don't even share like where I live. I don't really share pictures of my apartment or like I, I just don't talk about any of it and I don't show any of it because you never know someone that see something in the background and like come find out where you like. I remember when I, when Ruby was arrested and I got like a letter on my door from like a Daily Mail reporter. They're like, please call me. He's like, I don't, like, I still don't know how they found out where I lived. Like I haven't registered to vote. Like which kills a political science person in me. Please go vote. Like I don't want people knowing where I live. I won't post about a place that I am if I am still there. So just like practical things like that.
- [43:29]
A
It's actually terrifying that somebody can find out where a person lives like so easily.
- [43:35]
B
Yeah.
- [43:36]
A
Even I think there's like some guy on tick tock and he does like geo picking or something and he can like find if like from a photo like oh, they live in like Ethiopia or like this place, this small town in France. I'm like, that is so like like alarming to me. Like even take out like the exploiting a child, like safety.
- [43:57]
B
Yeah.
- [43:58]
A
There can be one person that finds something like admirable about a member of your family. And like people are creepy, People are weird.
- [44:06]
B
Yeah.
- [44:08]
A
What are some ways that you nurture yourself now? So like habits or rituals, routines that like you didn't have access to before or like now that you're. You have like your own agency of like I can do what I want. Like what are some things that like you love? I.
- [44:26]
B
I like to buy soda. That's like a silly thing. Like I like we were allowed to drink it but like we were never the family that would like if we went out to a restaurant, we got water and. And so like something like that where I'm like, I would have like we never would have been allowed to like spend money on stuff like this and I'll go and buy a soda and now I'm too addicted and that's a problem I'm working on. But I like, I feel like I can have hobbies outside of like people would ask me growing up, like, what's your hobby? I'M like, I don't have one school, like, but school's my hobby. But now it's like, I've gotten into rock climbing. Um, and I feel like I can go do something and unplug completely. Um, I feel I can watch my, like, teen dramas that I want to watch and not get worried that I'm not allowed to watch it.
- [45:26]
A
Is it growing up in such a conservative household and, like, a mother that kind of decides, like, what you can and can't do and, like, when you wear. I mean, to an extent, like, a parent. Yes. Will decide those things. But now, is it, like, sometimes you're kind of, like, looking over your shoulder like, ooh, should I be doing this? Or, like, have you now been so far out that you're like, no, I feel great about what I'm doing and, like, I'm making the decisions that I want to make.
- [45:53]
B
Yeah. I think I've gotten to, like, a. A point where it's like, rationally, I know that I can do what I want to do, and I. And I will do those things, but there are still, like, some decisions I make them. Like, oh, like, what will my siblings think if I do this? Or what will my boss think if I like. And so, like, I think it's still at the back of my head. There's like, oh, are people going to be mad at me if I make this decision or if I do this thing? And it's like, rationally, I know that I can do what I want. I'm an adult. Like, I'm not going to get in trouble any. Like, adults don't get in trouble anymore. Yeah, that's great.
- [46:37]
A
Like, this is wonderful. I love this. What are conversations around, like, digital. Digital ethics and children's rights that you hope will gain more traction in the next few years?
- [46:49]
B
I think. And it's an uncomfortable one that, like, a lot of people don't like to have. And I understand why. But again, just, like, why, as a viewer, do you watch this person? You know, we can pass all the laws that we want to help protect kids and hold parents accountable, but, like, if people stopped watching them, we wouldn't have to pass those laws because they would stop making that content because people aren't watching. And so it's like, it. And again, like, when I bring this up and people say, oh, but, like, I like this person. And they're not like, your family was like, there's always going to be someone that says that. But it's so. I. I think it's like, why is A society, do we watch children grow up? Like, that's weird.
- [47:43]
A
Like, it's just weird. You're like, let's think more about this. If somebody listening to this feels inspired to advocate but doesn't know where to start, what is small? What one small action that they could take?
- [47:58]
B
I mean, to stop watching your, you know, family content creators, I think commenting on content of, like, Like, I think this is something where you can call someone out and say, like, I like, why would you post this about your child? And, you know, family content creators are not going to like that. But, like, I think that really making it clear and upfront for other viewers that maybe haven't heard about my story or considered the bad impacts of it, other viewers will see that and then maybe we'll also start to reconsider. So I think being upfront and calling people out and not consuming that content, though, or following these people is a good first step.
- [48:47]
A
I love that. Honestly, I'm, like, so inspired by your story and just, like, in awe of, like, the, like, I don't know, just the bravery and, like, vulnerability. I think I find it very admirable. Like, what are you looking forward to? Like, in the future? You can be very broad. You don't have to be like, oh, yes, I.
- [49:11]
B
I. And I've also had this thought too, of what I'm not looking forward to in the future. Of I will always be in some form like a public figure because when Ruby goes up for parole over the next however many years and when anniversaries come around and people want to know, I always be present, whether I want to or not. But I look forward to being able to control a large part of that of, like, what I put out there. I look forward to living my life and not having people know about it. Like, that's exciting for me.
- [49:52]
A
Like, I love that. I'm like, finally, this is. I'm so excited for you to be able to live the life that you want to live and share what parts you do and don't want to share. I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on and for opening up and, like, answering some of my questions. Where can people find you or not find you on social media?
- [50:13]
B
Yeah, I, I'm not active on YouTube anymore. My channel's gone. Eight passengers is gone. But I am on Instagram @sherrylfrankie. And then you can also check out my book. It's sold anywhere. Books are sold.
- [50:30]
A
Literally. I wrote read it on my Kindle in, like, a day. So, like, I highly recommend everybody reading her story. Well, thank you so much for coming on and for the listeners. I hope you guys enjoyed and I look forward to seeing you in my next episode. Next. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.