The Art of the Juggling Act With Sarah Armstrong

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff
Episode: The Art of the Juggling Act With Sarah Armstrong
Date: February 5, 2026
Host: Rebecca Minkoff
Guest: Sarah Armstrong (VP, Global Marketing Operations at Google; author, single mother)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the realities of juggling a high-powered career and single motherhood, featuring Sarah Armstrong, whose career spans Coca-Cola, McKinsey, and Google. As the author of The Art of the Juggling Act, Sarah shares hard-won practical advice on navigating career advancement, parenting, divorce, boundaries, burnout, and societal expectations—boldly rejecting the idea that “having it all” must look the same for everyone. The conversation is candid, actionable, and deeply affirming for parents and ambitious professionals, breaking down illusions and judgments about what success and fulfillment look like.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Becoming a Mother While Building a Career

• Early Career and Motherhood:
  • Sarah wanted to be a mom for a long time but found the transition unexpectedly shocking.
  • She looked for role models among working women but noted their scarcity, especially early in her career.
  • Quote: “I was really looking to see around me who were those people that I could model and pick. But there weren’t a ton in my early career...” (03:21)

2. Setting Your Own Path: Reactions to Non-Traditional Choices

• Judgment from Others:
  • Sarah describes being judged for global travel as a working mother—recounting a story where another mom seemed to shame her for traveling for work while raising her daughter.
  • Quote: “She just gave me this look up and down and just walked away. And I thought, oh, okay.” (04:16-05:13)

3. Navigating Ambition, Divorce, and Career Choices

• Making It Work Post-Divorce:

  • Divorce forced Sarah to reassess her work-life balance and make critical decisions about what mattered most.
  • Adjustments included hosting business dinners at home to maximize time with her daughter, instead of attending endless work functions.
  • Quote: “Divorce can be this label that people carry and a bit of a scarlet letter...I just don’t want that to be the case because I think you can achieve all of your dreams...” (09:46-11:15)

• Turning Down Promotions:

  • Sarah turned down a major promotion during her divorce to prioritize her daughter and her own well-being.
  • Quote: “I was already giving 110% trying to do the single working mom thing. So I passed it up and people were like, are you sure?...Yes.” (11:40-12:49)

4. The Power of Boundaries (and Saying “No”)

• Learning How to Say No:

  • Both Rebecca and Sarah discuss the guilt and excuses women often feel required to give when saying no to requests, and the freedom in simply declining without apology.
    • Sarah recounts advice from a male colleague:
      “All I have to say is I can’t make it. The minute you tell me the reason...I’m judging you on whether you made the right call—and it’s not my judgment to make.” (08:04)
  • Rebecca adds:
    “Sorry, I can’t, when it should just be I’m unable to do this, not apologizing for it.” (07:55)

• Setting and Communicating Boundaries:

  • Sarah stresses that boundaries are only effective if communicated clearly to others at home and at work.
  • Example: Sarah blocked out “Grace time” (6-8 pm) on her calendar and instructed her assistant not to schedule work meetings then.
    • Quote: “...I literally put on my calendar. It was called grace time...in a 24 hour period besides me sleeping. So let’s find a different hour...” (18:10-19:39)

5. Surviving vs. Thriving: Work-Life “Integration” and Burnout

• Work-Life Integration Over Balance:

  • Both women reject the myth of perfect balance in favor of “integration,” admitting you can “have it all” but not all at once.
    • Quote (Sarah): “You might not have everything all at once and at the same time. ...I do think it’s possible to integrate both, but it takes a lot of these muscles...whether it’s setting the boundaries...compartmentalization...” (22:34-23:44)

• Practical Strategies:

  • Sarah physically separates work from home—placing her laptop in a cupboard for her two evening hours with her daughter to ensure true presence.
    • Quote: “...when you put your laptop on the kitchen table...even if it’s closed, it’s talking to you. You know it is.” (20:18-22:10)
  • She also describes coping with the “mental load” by making a “Sunday list”—writing down tasks for concentrated weekend completion.
    • Quote: “I started doing what I call Sunday list...And then in Sundays, I block an hour or so and I just crank through it.” (29:41-30:50)

6. Perfectionism, Judgement, and ‘Having It All’ on Your Own Terms

• Rejecting Martyrdom and External Judgement:

  • Both guest and host stress the importance of building a support network of nonjudgmental friends, and tuning out those who doubt or diminish your choices.
    • Quote (Sarah): “I was always looking for individuals in my life that would kind of support what I was trying to do versus have me feel badly...” (25:10)
    • Quote (Rebecca): “I don’t get the questions, but I get the, ‘You’re such a superwoman. How do you do it all?’ And I’m like, you’re out of my life now.” (25:51-26:01)
  • Recognizing that “having it all” is subjective and changes with time, priorities, and personal definitions.

• Ongoing Adaptation & Self-Forgiveness:

  • Sarah highlights constantly fine-tuning, reassessing, and adjusting priorities.
    • E.g., limiting school volunteering to one “happy” event or delegating household tasks—“pick one thing that you can commit to versus trying to do them all.” (27:13-29:02)
    • Later, paying others for help as career success allows—removing “housekeeping” chores from her mental load.

• Giving Yourself Permission:

  • Both emphasize self-compassion: Give yourself a break, choose what matters to you, and recognize that not every season will be equally balanced or optimal.
    • Quote (Sarah): “What does having it all really mean? ...Your ‘having it all’, my ‘having it all’ might be very different formulas.” (26:01-26:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You’re the CEO of your own life.” – Sarah Armstrong (02:27, 12:24)
• “The power of saying no is something I talk about in my book...Sometimes the answer is just, you know, it’s no.” – Sarah Armstrong (07:35)
• “You never get married to get divorced and you don’t say, so when I get divorced, this is how it’s going to work...” – Sarah Armstrong (09:46)
• “If you love what you do, working those extra hours isn’t necessarily going to be the cause of burnout.” – Rebecca Minkoff (19:39)
• “It does take some conscious effort to figure out what works for you and to try things...Some things I did, I was like, oh, that didn’t work so well.” – Sarah Armstrong (26:40, 27:07)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:21 – Sarah’s initial experience of motherhood and career
• 04:16 – Facing judgement as a working/traveling mom
• 05:40 – Marriage, ambition, and the reset after divorce
• 08:04 – How to say “no” without excuses
• 09:46 – Resetting daily life after divorce
• 11:40 – Turning down promotions and accepting pacing
• 13:34 – How prioritizing family doesn’t derail long-term career
• 18:10 – Communicating and upholding boundaries
• 19:39 – Technology, presence, and strategies for burnout
• 22:34 – The myth of “work-life balance” and real integration
• 23:53 – Personal “breaks” and protecting downtime
• 25:10 – Choosing a supportive network and ditching judgment
• 29:41 – The “Sunday list”–a hack for mental load
• 31:13 – The need for an “app called Wife” for women

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Resources and Next Steps

• Sarah’s Books:

  • The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce – gooddivorceguide.com
  • The Art of the Juggling Act – thejugglingact.com
  • Connect on LinkedIn

• Rebecca’s Books & Channels:

  • Fearless: The New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage and Success
  • New YouTube: SuperWoman Media

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Takeaway

The key to thriving as a working parent isn’t finding mythical balance, but developing clarity about what matters to you, setting and communicating boundaries unapologetically, and revisiting your choices as life shifts. “You, you, do you”—success and happiness are subjective, and the path will inevitably be noisy and nonlinear. Sarah Armstrong’s practical, honest wisdom is not only reassuring but fundamentally empowering for any “superwoman” at the crossroads of career and motherhood.

Transcript

[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

Today's guest is Sarah Armstrong. She has spent decades building an incredible career working at Coke McKinsey and now at Google. She's the VP of Global Marketing Operations and she's also a mother.

[Sarah Armstrong]

When you're a single working parent, you can still achieve all that you want to achieve in life. Divorce can be this label that people carry and a bit of a scarlet letter in terms of what it means both personally and professionally.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

We're talking about how she managed the juggling act. She even wrote a book about it called the Art of the Juggling act about how you can actually still have an amazing career and be a mother

[Sarah Armstrong]

and not lose your we grew up going to school for a lot of things, but we don't get formally trained in how to be a parent and we don't get any real education on how to manage our careers.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I say this from an honest perspective. A single woman who doesn't have children or a single man can work harder, faster, longer than I ever could.

[Sarah Armstrong]

And I think that there are times when you might pace yourself a bit on your career, and there's times when you can accelerate. You're the CEO of your own life. If that opportunity was there. There will be other opportunities in the future.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I'm Rebecca Minkoff and this is Superwomen. Each week, inspiring women are interviewed to uncover the unexpected journeys, the challenges, and the unwavering spirit that makes them powerful. Get ready to be motivated by stories of resilience and discover the keys to unlocking your own potential. So welcome, Sarah, to the podcast.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Thank you for having me, Rebecca. Great to be here.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Tell me a little bit about where you were in your career journey when you decided to become a mother and the shock that quickly ensued.

[Sarah Armstrong]

That's a great point. So I was early 30s, I was 31 when I had my daughter Grace, and we had actually wanted to have a child for quite some time, but actually it took a while. And so the shock of motherhood definitely came, but the desire to be a mom was definitely there. So I was, you know, early 30s when I was trying to figure out what this juggling act looks like. And I have to say that there were so many moments where I thought, wow, it's harder than it looks. And some people make it look easy, but I had always been trying to study those women around me that I thought were trying to do it, to see what I could pick up along the way. I was raised by an amazing mom. She worked when I was younger, but she stopped working when I was seven. So she was a stay at home mom for my primary childhood years. So I was really looking to see around me who were those people that I could model and pick. But there weren't a ton in my early career, in fairness. So I had to also try to figure out what that looked like for myself.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So what did it look like for yourself?

[Sarah Armstrong]

Well, you know, it's interesting because I was in a dual income household, so there were two of us both working and I was traveling globally, which, Rebecca, for a lot of people, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you. I had, I had a moment when Grace was in preschool and I had a mom walk up to me and she looked at me and she said, so you're Grace's mom? And I said, yeah. She goes, but you travel globally? And I said, yeah, I travel. Gosh, at least A week, a month, you know, somewhere in the world. And she's like, well, who's with Grace? I'm like, well, her dad. And I know. I said, we're fortunate to have a nanny. I said, you know, I have an amazing nanny. And honestly, it's one of those moments. She was in her tennis outfit, I was in my, at that back in the day, I was in my pants suit. And she just gave me this look up and down and just walked away. And I thought, oh, okay. So I share that story because when I look at how I was doing it, I was kind of setting my own path for what worked for my family and for my career. But it had very much a global lens and it wasn't the traditional, you know, go home like a 9 to 5 situation.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

We are in a culture where it is celebrating speed, it's celebrating ambition.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

But when you're a mother and you have a high profile career like you do, how do you sort of deal with that pressure and stress and your own personal. Like, I have tremendous ambition. That comes from me, not my job. Right, right. How have you been over the years able to go high when you need to go, you know, take it in lower gear when you.

[Sarah Armstrong]

No, it's a great question. So one of the interesting things for my career path is, as I mentioned, I had grace when I was in my early 30s. I did actually get a divorce when I was, when she was 7. And so when I look at the path of my career, I was in my 20s, I was out of balance and all I did was work. Right. When I had grace, it reset things of what life looked like, but my ambition and I wanted to be best in the world at what I did. And so with that and being in these global roles, I had to figure out what that looked like. And when I got divorced, I had to stop for a minute and say, how am I going to be a single working mom and do that and still, still travel globally, still do all the things? I wasn't looking to pivot. And so it is a matter of figuring out what works for you and your family and your situation. I always say your balance in the way that you want to manage things is not how everyone else is potentially going to do it. And I call it a transference of hours. Because a lot of times the things that you think you need to do to get everything done in a day isn't going to happen in a normal working day. And I literally, you know, I, I was a late night owl that would cram in what I needed to do because I knew that I needed to able to both deliver at work, but also be there for Grace and try to be as present as possible for the few hours a day that I got with her, which is maybe two to three hours a day for the days that I was in town. And so that was really important, too. And so it was a combination of things. It's making tough choices. And also, I think you get so clear when you become a working mom of what's important. And your patience for people wasting your time is short because you really know you're trying to get everything done in a given day.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Oh, my gosh. I just sent an email back to somebody who reached out and was like, I want you involved and help me and be on my board for free and give me advice when I need it. And I was like, thank you so much. I'm so honored. But no, you know, no, I never speak to me again. But the answer is still no.

[Sarah Armstrong]

You know what? And actually, I think the power of saying no is something I talk about in my book a lot of times. First of all, we feel like we need to give a reason when we say no. And sometimes the answer is just, you know, it's no. You don't need to give the reason behind all that. And so I think it's interesting thing that sometimes we have a hard time saying no, and we absolutely need to if we're going to be able to do all that we need to do.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And also, I feel like we say, sorry, I can't, when it should just be I'm unable to do this, not apologizing for it. And I do. I'm guilty of it all the time.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yeah. No, it's interesting because I had a colleague a number of years ago, and I wish I'd been given this advice much earlier in my career, quite honestly. And I was explaining to him why I couldn't come to this meeting with him. He. He stopped me. Goes, sarah, all I have to say is I can't make it. The minute you tell me the reason why you're not able to make it, I'm judging you on whether you made the right call. And he goes, and it's not my judgment to make interesting.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I love that a man said that to you.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yes, yes. And I said to him, like, jonathan, thank you for sharing that with me. And it has literally stuck with me. And I think I was. That was probably about eight years ago. And I go, gosh, I wish, by the way, both on the professional side, and the personal side, and to your point, on the volunteering side, I mean, every angle of your life, you can use that little nugget. And, and it has been very freeing to not feel like I have to give an excuse, whether it's for the invitation I don't want to do in my personal life or the meeting I can't take, for whatever reason, the answer is just no, thank you, I can't make it. And I actually tell my assistant that, by the way, I say to her, you don't need to tell them why I can't make it. You just say, can't make it.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I love that. Ooh, I'm feeling that one.

[Sarah Armstrong]

It's a good one. It's one that's really, it's helped. It's, it's been very liberating.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So you mentioned you got divorced when she was 7. Was that at all a moment for you where you realized something has to change and how you worked or lived or what was the shift? Because I know I have a lot of listeners that are single parents.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And, and the times where I'm a single parent when my husband, when he travels, he goes away for like two weeks. And my respect for single parents who do it all the time is through the roof because I lose my mind.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

As much as I love it, I'm like, I'm losing my mind. So I'm curious what had to shift in your personal and professional life when you became that.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yeah, no, it's a great question. Yeah. There was definitely a moment where first of all, I never envisioned you. I would say you don't, you never get married to get divorced and you don't say, so when I get divorced, this is how it's going to work. It's not something you're planning for. So. But when that moment happened and I realized that being a single working mom was going to be my reality, the good news is my ex spouse was a very active co parent. So across two households we were doing it. But having said that, I did have to really reset. What did the day to day look like and what did I need to maybe say no more to than I had? And I'll tell you an example, I do. I did a lot of business centers, but instead of going out to dinner, I would have my colleagues from around the world come to my house and I would have, I would make them dinner and at least I could be home with Grace, like maybe have dinner, little dinner with her. They'd show up at 8 o', clock, she'd be heading up to bed and I'd have what I need to do from a business standpoint, but in my home instead of always being away. So that's just an example, but there are a lot of those tweaks that I needed to make. But also realizing that when you are a single working parent, you can still achieve all that you want to achieve in life. And I really feel strongly about that because divorce can be this label that people carry and a bit of a scarlet letter in terms of what it means both personally and professionally. And I just don't ever want that to be the case because I think you can achieve all of your dreams, the vision you have for your life life, and be divorced. Divorce is an action. It is not meant to be a negative cloud that follows you for the rest of your life, your children's lives and even your ex spouse's life.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Do you think that it like, and I say this from an honest perspective, like motherhood did slow me down career wise. Right. A single woman who doesn't have children or a single man. Right. Can work harder, faster, longer than I ever could. So do you feel like there is just this inherent things are going to slow down or opportunities you just can't do?

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yes. And I'd say yes. So I'll give you an example. During my divorce actually I was offered a promotion and I turned it down because I said I can't handle this right now. Like I am trying to figure out how to live a new model for my life with grace and what this looks like and I just can't take on something new. Which I know anytime you do something new, you have to put that extra 110% into it. And I was already giving 110% trying to do the single working mom thing. So I passed it up and people were like, are you sure? And I said I'm positive. I mean I just can't do that. So to your point about slowing down now, did it slow down the long term trajectory of my career? No. And I think that there are times when you might have to pace yourself a bit on your career and there's times when you can accelerate. And so I think is an interesting balancing act of when you make those decisions and you just have to know what's right for you at the moment. Everyone else around you may be saying one thing and you just have to know for you, like I always say, you're the CEO of your own life and of your career. Right. And so what is it? What is going to be best for you. And you make that call and you stick to it and don't look back. Because if that opportunity was there, there will be other opportunities in the future.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Hey everyone, sorry for the quick pause. I want to share something really exciting. Superwoman has been brand new YouTube channel. It's still under construction, but big things are coming in 2026. You'll find past episodes, new episodes, and some bonus content I cannot wait for you to see. Just search SuperWoman Media on YouTube and hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Okay, back to the pod. I think it's great that you offer hope and like it doesn't long term change anything. Which I think people go, this is going to be the fork in the road that I took. You know, I pulled back, I focus on my children or whatever it is, and now, now I'm fucked, right? For the future. But what makes you say that it doesn't for the long term affect that?

[Sarah Armstrong]

Because I think if you are still committed, that you have a view of what you want your career to look like and you're willing to put in, I mean, by the way, having a career and raising the families, you know, it's, it's some of the hardest work you can do. And so I think being committed that you want to do both. Well, if you know that you know and you know that you're going to stay committed to both of them, you want to be the best parent you could be, you want to be the best in whatever you've chosen to do in your career. Staying committed to that, is it a guarantee? No. But I fundamentally believe that if you stay on course for what you think is going to be the best way for you to manage your career and your, your life, it will work out in the long run. I will say though, Rebecca, one of the things that I, I've been reflecting on a lot of which kind of one of the reasons behind the art of the juggling act is that we grew up going to school for a lot of things, but we don't get formally trained in how to be a parent. Right. It's through our lived experiences and we don't get any real education on how to manage our careers. And then we're asked to do these two things at the same time. Two of the most important things you're going to do, you don't have any, you shouldn't have kind of guidance on how you're supposed to do those. Well, and I see so many parents that are surviving and not thriving and I Think one of the challenges there is how can people feel like they can thrive in both.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So in seeing that, especially for those who are probably first or second time parents and they're going through the whiplash of it all, what have you learned in your season time, managing these huge careers and being a mother that you could parlay?

[Sarah Armstrong]

One of the things is really being clear on the boundaries that you need in your life to actually make things work. And I was not good at my boundaries again in the early stages of my career, I would say, and I needed to figure out what did those boundaries need to look like. But I needed. I think the key things with boundaries is you can set them for yourself, but if you don't share them with the others around you, both personally and professionally, they will walk right over them or walk on them in a heartbeat. And so you need others to help you understand you're trying to set some boundaries to allow what you need to do on both sides of your life. So that's one thing that I was really trying to figure out, how to build that method. It's almost a muscle, right, to like set the boundary and kind of protect it. Kind of what we're talking about in terms of saying no. All of these things are not maybe our natural inclinations because we are wanting to do, say yes to everything and do that next thing. So I think that's the first thing.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

How do you do that in a, like, in a competitive environment? I think I can't speak from it because I was always, let's just say, in my role as Rebecca Minkoff. So I would set a boundary that like, no one could say, oh, you can't do that. But I would watch, right? I'll never forget we had a cmo and she was like, corrected on this, but she was like knocking on the door while her report was pumping. And I was like, you can't do that. That's. She's pumping. You're not allowed to, right? But the employee was too scared to tell her boss, hey, I have to do this. And I think there's so much fear that women experience or that I've heard. It's like, I want to escalate. I want to show up in the same room as the man, you know? But I have these boundaries and I'm struggling because I don't want to be judged or not taken seriously.

[Sarah Armstrong]

I appreciate that, depending on the level you're in in an organization and what that looks like, because I really share this. I watch them trying to do it and sometimes they're almost timid to do it. I'm like, you try because you'll also judge. You'll also figure out in the environment you're in, how are people going to react to that? I find, you know, nine times out of 10, people see what you're trying to do and they want to help you support that boundary that you're trying to protect others. You know, there's other individuals or circumstances or companies where it may not be as feasible. And then you have to decide, is this the type of environment that's going to work for me? You know, in terms of your career and finding that. And so I think that that's one of the things and I can say over the course of the various places I've worked, there's been different mindsets around what those boundaries look like. And I think that you have to figure out kind of matching for what you want to do with your career with the right environment and the individuals that can help you and decide where you're going to flex on that boundary. Because you would rather be in the environment versus protect the boundary versus the boundary is important to you. And you're like, no, I'd rather go find somewhere that's going to respect that. So. And it really is about you figuring it out. And sometimes it's hard because you're going to maybe have to make a tough call of whether that's the right environment for you.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And let me clarify, when we say boundaries, the boundary isn't for anyone listening. You can, you can disagree with me. I'm 23 and I have a yoga class and that's my boundary.

[Sarah Armstrong]

So I can, in fairness, I do think everyone should work out every day. But there's more. There's early morning, I get up super early to do my Pilates or my walks, or you can do it later in the evening. But yeah, no, the boundaries during a work day for yoga, for sure. And actually the irony is, like, I'm talking, when I'm talking about boundaries, I'm saying in the six to eight o' clock at night when you want to be home to feed your kids, boundary, you know that like maybe two, like I'm talking maybe two hours in a day that I was really, I literally put on my calendar. It was called grace time. And I said to my assistant, because I was in this 24, 7 global role, people would happily take the call with me or want to call with me at 6 or 7 or 9. I said, I can talk to them at 8 or 9pm or I can talk to them at 8am after I drop off for carpool. But 6pm are just the two hours I can't talk in a 24 hour period besides me sleeping. So let's find a different hour, you know. And so that was the way that I tried to manage it and again easier said than done depending on the level you're in. But I do think if you don't try then I think you always feel like things are happening to you and as individuals and I say this even to my, you know, team right now. But you literally, this is your career, it's for you to manage and you can feel like things are happening to you but it's for you to figure out how you want to manage your career and your day to day should do all that you want to do.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So earlier in our conversation you mentioned you'd put Grace to bed because you have a global role, you'd go back online and now you know, I have a very different view of what burnout is. I firmly believe if you love what you do, working those extra hours isn't necessarily going to be the cause of burnout. But for those who do feel like, oh my God, you know, this career for me is a stage for me to get to the next level and I have to work these hours and I have a kid and I have a husband or whatever it is and then you just feel like stretched thin.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

How did you not feel that way or did you and you just said this is a small season for me.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yeah, no, it's a great question. I would say I, I, I did feel stretched then for sure. And in periods of time I also agree with you, when you enjoy what you do, it doesn't really feel like work. And so if I needed to get back on a call with one of my colleagues in a different part of the world that actually gave me energy and I'm also happened to be a night owl is awake anyway and was might as well be productive and connecting with people. So I do think though the feeling stretched thin and because we are in an environment now where our technology is with us at all times and technically you could work anytime from anywhere. I think that's one of the biggest challenges we have is how do we create space when we say okay, I don't need to work right now and you literally put it away. And that's one of the things I have had to work on over the years. And one of the things I did during those two hours I had Grace is I had done a Renovation of my house. And I designed a cupboard in my back hallway as I walked in the door that I literally put my tote and my laptop, like everything went in the cupboard and it was like it was tucked away. And I put it away for those two hours like it was like it was. Because I always say when you put your laptop on the kitchen table or the counter, even if it's closed, it's talking to you. You know it is. It's silently talking to you. And I just think one of the biggest challenges for us as working parents and working moms is being present for those moments that we have with our children in a given day. And so my goal was that Grace really didn't associate that laptop. I had a personal laptop, in fairness, on the counter for looking up recipes and those, but it didn't have my work email accessible. Sounds like it was like church and state. But I think that the ability to put that technology away for a little while is one of our biggest challenges as a society as we know. But I think as parents, doing that or figuring out how to build that muscle a bit is one of the best gifts we can give ourselves and our kids those few hours we're trying to spend with them.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I don't believe in work life balance. I call it work life integration. Do you think it's achievable or not? And if it's not, how do we get unbrainwashed with our society that tells us it's all possible. You can look beautiful and have your boobs up here and be in shape and be a mom and cook all the dinners and go to work and be happy and have a lot of sad, you know, all the things.

[Sarah Armstrong]

I do think it's possible, but you might not have everything all at once and at the same time. So everything that you just articulated, all of those things might not happen at exactly the same time. And I think they're. I look back, you know, as a working mom, I didn't work out every day. I wanted to, but it just like. But I. I tried to get in four, three to four days a week now as an empty ester, if I'm. If I miss my workout, something's really wrong because I have the luxury of an empty nest. And so I think that's one of the things in. I do think it's possible to integrate both, but it takes a lot of these muscles that I'm talking about, whether it's the setting, the boundaries. The other one I talk about is a compartmentalization muscle. But I said one of the most important things is having a compartmentalization also that allows you to potentially turn things off for a little bit, to give your brain that rest. Now, as an owner and a founder, as you are, this is probably one of the bigger challenges because of all that you're trying to drive. But I do think in general, most people should be able to build that muscle to be able to give them those breaks and also to be present. And so that's one of the muscles that I think allows for work life integration, because the only healthy way to do it is, I think, to also get some breaks.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

When you got your breaks, what were those like? For me, it's going for a bike ride or napping in the sun or maybe getting three sentences of a book read.

[Sarah Armstrong]

The luxury of reading. No, mine was. Yeah, mine was going for a long walk. I would try to get a weekly massage. That was my gift to myself. And that was my hour Saturdays from 4 to 5pm and I said, that is my one hour. If nothing else, can I protect that one hour? And that was because I really needed. I needed it for my neck and back issues. I said I needed it to be able to function and stay out of pain. But also it did release a lot of stress and it was the gift to myself each week. So I think it's whatever that thing is that you need to feel like. And I say this with a love for what we do, not just working and being a parent. Like, what's the thing for you? What's that gift for yourself every week? And if it is an hour, if it's going to see a friend for coffee, whatever gives you energy, whatever is going to make you feel like, okay, I can do this. That's the thing. I want everyone, especially when you're in the thick of it, when you have the little ones at home and you're just feeling like you're juggling all those balls, what's the thing you give to yourself?

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Right. And we have to get out of this victim mentality or like self sacrifice.

[Sarah Armstrong]

You've generally chosen to have children. We all need to work, but you've chosen a career of some type. And it's like those two things, feeling like the martyrdom or the self, like that negative energy doesn't help anyone.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And I feel like it propels that activity from just staying out as an energy.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Absolutely. And that's why I generally. And I wonder how you feel about this. Like, I was always looking for individuals in my life that would kind of support what I was trying to do versus have me feel badly. If there was ever a friend or, you know, a moment where someone was questioning what I was trying to juggle, I'm like, I don't need those questions. I'm clear on what I'm trying to do. And so I looked for friends, quite honestly, that supported whether it was other working moms who you can really relate to from one level. But also I had a ton of amazing stay at home moms that were in my kind of support network and were there for me in so many different ways and were like cheering me on. Like, amazing what you're doing. Keep going. And I think you need both.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I don't get the questions, but I get the, you're such a superwoman. How do you do it all? And I'm like, you're out of my life now.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Exactly, exactly. My whole reflection is, why can't we have it all again? But it might not all happen at once. And some people look at me and say, well, you got divorced so you don't have it all. Like, I was with my ex husband for 17 years and now I have an amazing relationship that is not a traditional model. It's long distance and it works perfectly for me. What does having it all really mean? Because you're having it all. My having all might be very different formulas.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So different, so different. And even the way we choose to mother. Like, I have friends that choose to work way longer hours that I think if I worked that many hours, I would be sad that I wasn't missing my kids. But they're fulfilled and like, I think everyone has to be like, to each his own. You, you, do you.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Absolutely. I think we. There's so much judgment, I'd say, in society about a lot of the decisions we collectively make. And I just, I always just say, look, we're all trying to be happy, live the most fulfilling lives we can, raise great, happy, healthy kids. But how you do it, what that formula looks like, is for you to define. It does take some conscious effort to figure out what works for you and to try things. And you know, some things I did, I was like, oh, that didn't work so well. And then, you know, you shift and you evolve over the course of time.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So what looking back, what would you say that you tried for you, that didn't work.

[Sarah Armstrong]

So I'd say, if I take my 20s before work, you know, I, I was way out of balance. So rebalancing in grace was part of my rebalancing of my life to some Extent. I think at the divorce point, when I got divorced and I figured out what I could and could do as a divorced mom, I'd say there were things that I no longer put the pressure on myself to be a part of. And I'll give you an example. When we, when she entered kindergarten, first grade, and at the school, they had all those volunteer lists on the. Well back in the day when they were on the table, like signup sheets. And I walked in and in my prior life I would be like, oh, let me do five of these. And I walked and I stopped and I'm like, I'm just going to pick one. And I looked, I'm like, I'm picking Valentine's Day. That's a happy day. And so the reason I say that is there's a lot of pressure for us to be in the classroom doing everything. So early on I would have tried to sign up for everything. And then I realized, no, pick one thing, like, so I picked one volunteer thing at school. I picked one board, not five boards. Pick the one thing that then you can commit to versus trying to do them all. So that was something I shifted in my life. And I think that made a difference. And I think down the road it's interesting because we always had a nanny, as I mentioned to you. And there was a point where Grace actually was like, mom, we don't need an anymore. I'm old enough. And I thought to myself, no, I need a nanny. Mom needs a daddy. Because for two reasons, mentally, I didn't want her coming home to an empty house. I had tried that a little bit to go back to like, and it, that doesn't feel good. And two, there were things that now I needed. So I said, grace, you know, I need someone who helps me with these things because I really, in fairness, I don't want to ask you to have to do that every week because there's something every week. So it's like trying these different models of what's going to work for you and then figuring out. And then I just fine tuned. I constantly fine tuned.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I think as I've done that because I, like you, was like, I'm going to be on the PTA and blah. And then I was like, oh God, I can't Friday at 9:30am Every week, like, no, not happening. And then as I've achieved more success, I'm like, you know what? I'm at a phase in my life where I can pay my way out of this. I'm going to, I'm going To give extra to the cookie fund. I'm going to give extra to like the field trip. That's my way of giving back even though I can't physically be there with all the moms. Like, I have someone that does my returns for me now. That was a huge unlock. Even just two weeks ago, I was like, why am I doing this? Let my housekeeper, I'll pay her more money. She'll be happy, she'll go stand in line.

[Sarah Armstrong]

I have a young gal that works with me right now. She's my house and she comes and she's so appreciative of the extra money on top of her day to day job. And she literally thanks me. And I'm thanking her, like, thank you, you're helping me so much. But you know, it's a win win. It's a win win. But it is interesting. And then the other things you asked, like, we always have these things coming at us every day, like all the stuff we're supposed to do in our personal lives. And I started doing what I call Sunday list. So what I do is all those things that come in that you need to do, but you don't necessarily need to write this moment. I put on my Sunday list. And then in Sundays, I block an hour or so and I just crank through it. Wow. It's. So instead of having those things literally like you lay down at the end of your night, it's all that list of things that you're like, I didn't do this. And I. That's all been written down and it's on a Sunday list. I don't even worry about it. And then I crack up and I'm like, what do I need to do today? Now some of them get pushed to the next Sunday. I'm like, not this week. But that's been one of my little tricks along the way that has helped with the mental load of what we carry, of all the things we're meant to be doing as a mom. And sometimes we feel like we have to do it in that moment. It's like, no. It can get put on a list that gets done at some point. It doesn't have to be done today or in this moment.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Right. I think it, for me, it's like the minute I write it down, I feel relief because I know it's written down and I'll get to it.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

It's not stuck here.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Right. I have lost some things, technology of the side to you guys. He goes, when you write it down to your permission to forget. I Said you're right, then it can be off. It's not sticking up there. So, yeah, I feel that's one of those, one of those little hacks for life hacks.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Well, in my next career, if I ever have one, I want to do an app that's called Wife. It's going to be for women who need a wife. Right. And it's someone who has had kids and who knows all the things and knows how to do it. So like, oh, I know exactly how she'd want this done because I've lived it and breathed it.

[Sarah Armstrong]

That, that, that would be a business.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Rebecca, on my sports app I'm going to put on my Sunday list.

[Sarah Armstrong]

I think that would be business. I think you'd have a lot of takers.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Gosh, so many, so many women need a wife. It has been so refreshing to talk to you today because I feel like it's very rare to meet someone who's achieved what you've achieved career wise, but has had their Wonder Woman like boundaries up and women can do it and we're not going to be martyrs. And it's just refreshing to hear that you've been able to do both. So I'm so grateful to have you on. And where can everyone read both of your books?

[Sarah Armstrong]

Well, thank you. So my books actually keep them on two separate sites because they're kind of two different audiences per se. So the, the first book, the Mom's Guide to a Good Divorce, is at gooddivorce Guide and you can reach me there. I've got all my contact information. And then the second book, the Art of the Juggling act, [e-mail] and you can reach me through that or on LinkedIn. You can always get a hold of me there. Thank you for having me. And I do think the goal of enjoying life while you're trying to be a parent and manage your career, it's what we're all trying to do. And I just hope the Art of the Juggle act can help those parents and specifically those moms out there that are trying to figure it out. It's written, by the way, when you said we don't have times to read books, it's written in very bite sized pieces. It's like a topic per page. So you can pick it up and just read one topic. You don't have to read it cover to cover. It's just meant to be there kind of as your companion along this journey of being a working parent.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So I love it. We need all we can get because it's, it's tough out there and it can be incredibly lonely and to know surrounded by like minded people who are, you know, trying to figure it out as best they can is is awesome. So thank you for giving us these guides. I don't need the divorce one yet.

[Sarah Armstrong]

A couple should be happily stay happily married. But if you need to do it, especially when children are involved, there's a way to do it. And so I really that's the one thing. But no hopefully the juggling help.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Awesome. Thank you. So if you've enjoyed this episode, please rate and review. I hate saying that it's real cringe guys but it does help with the algorithm. So thank you for tuning in today and please go get the book the Art of the Juggling Act. Thank you so much Sarah for joining me.

[Sarah Armstrong]

Thank you Rebecca. Great to be here.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Thanks so much for watching today's episode. Before you head out, I want to invite you to my brand new YouTube channel for all things superwomen. It's a fresh space I'm building out for 2026, packed with past episodes, future episodes, and some special new content we're cooking up. Just search SuperWoman Media on YouTube and subscribe so you're there for everything coming next. I'll see you over there. Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you've enjoyed it, take a second to rate and review the show. Wherever you're tuning in, it really helps others find the podcast. You can follow me on Instagram, Rebecca Minkoff and msuperwoman or for a slice into my personal life, Ecky Minkoff. And don't forget to check out my book Fearless the New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage and Success. See you next week.

[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Sarah Armstrong]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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