Turning Heartbreak Into a Cult Brand | Boys Lie Founders Tori Robinson and Leah O’Malley

Summary

Podcast Summary

Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff
Episode: Turning Heartbreak Into a Cult Brand | Boys Lie Founders Tori Robinson and Leah O’Malley
Guests: Tori Robinson and Leah O’Malley (Co-founders, Boys Lie)
Date: May 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights the remarkable journey of Tori Robinson and Leah O’Malley, childhood friends and founders of the viral apparel brand Boys Lie. Rebecca Minkoff dives into how the duo transformed personal heartbreak into a powerful business and community, maneuvered early failures, navigated friendship and business partnership stress, and built a cult following—culminating in multimillion-dollar success. The conversation explores the raw challenges and triumphs behind the brand, their pivot from cosmetics to apparel, the vital importance of vulnerability, and maintaining authentic community as they scale.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Boys Lie Origin Story

• Longtime friends: Tori and Leah have known each other since age 12, supporting each other through heartbreaks and relationship drama.
• Mantra becomes brand: "Boys Lie" started as their personal empowerment phrase, shouted while getting ready or roaming New York City.
  • “We would just scream it. And it just became… our mantra that empowered us and made us feel like we weren’t alone.” —Leah, [05:30]
• Drunken inspiration to trademark: The concept crystallized during a wild St. Patrick’s Day at a NYC fire station. The next day, they filed the trademark and decided to turn it into a business.
• Initial failure in cosmetics: They raised ~$250k via friends/family, launching with 48 cosmetic SKUs and one hoodie—overwhelming the market. Customers gravitated to the hoodie, not the makeup.
  • “We overwhelmed our customer entirely. That’s one of the reasons, I think why we failed so much. And people kept gravitating towards the clothes.” —Tori, [08:04]

2. The Pivot: From Failure to Viral Success

• Desperation before breakthrough: Both quit day jobs and almost shuttered the business, until an unexpected celebrity endorsement changed everything.
• Gigi Hadid “miracle moment”:
  • “Gigi Hadid walked out head to toe in Boys Lie and it was like a full paparazzi moment… First year, we did about a quarter million in sales and then the second year we did 5 million in sales from that moment.” —Tori, [03:13] & [12:20]
• Hustle & resilience: Fulfillment was scrappy—packing orders themselves, learning logistics, and improvising during COVID (selling hand sanitizer to stay “essential”).

3. Partnership, Vulnerability, and Growth

• Business puts friendship to the test:
  • “Our relationship will either make or break this brand.” —Tori, [04:19]
  • “If me and Tori aren’t on the same page, our business was never going to succeed to what it was today.” —Leah, [04:29]
• Open communication and therapy: Overcame tough personal differences via a pivotal conversation and therapy, recognizing parallels in other female partnerships.
  • “If you can’t be open and vulnerable with your business partner…it’s never going to work.” —Leah, [04:29] & [29:41]
  • Noted that outside influences and “third party” saboteurs tried to create rifts, but clear communication was key. [31:19]

4. Building Community as a Brand Pillar

• Making customers “Internet big sisters”:
  • “Our customers looked at us as…big sisters. They would DM us…with their heartbreak stories. We thought, why not try to give our customers a voice anonymously?” —Leah, [17:10]
  • Launching the Boys Lie podcast as a platform for shared, unfiltered heartbreak stories—building empathy and loyalty.
• Community started before the brand:
  • “Before we even announced what Boys Lie…the brand was going to be, we created an Instagram…like a mood board for what we were inspiring to be—heartbreak memes, collages…empowering women.” —Leah, [24:44]
• Audience grows with founders:
  • “Our audience is growing with us, honestly… The stories range from a girl in high school to a woman who’s a divorcée with three kids.” —Tori, [19:00]
• Authenticity and vulnerability: Wearing heartbreak (and healing) on your sleeve, literally and metaphorically, is at the core of Boys Lie’s appeal.

5. Handling Business Operations and Scaling

• Funding & financial wisdom:
  • They recommend factoring (e.g., Hilden) to manage cash flow, particularly for young, growing brands.
  • Stressed the need to hire people who compliment their skills, especially for logistics and operations.
    “Me and Tori aren’t looking at the checks and balances every day, you know. We needed people that we could lean on.” —Leah, [15:37]
• Myth of “easy” brand success: Stressed that big sales numbers don’t mean infinite cash; much gets reinvested or owed.
  • “People look at brands and expect…infinite amount of cash... The retail business is incredibly difficult.” —Tori, [32:52]

6. Influencer Collaborations & Future Plans

• Von Dutch collaboration:
  • Announced the upcoming “Von Daddy” collab launching June, timed for Pride Month, reimagining nostalgia for new and existing audiences. [36:25]
  • Selected trending and diverse talent for campaign faces, experimenting with TikTok culture.
• Candid influencer economics:
  • Pushed back on sky-high influencer rate expectations:
    “They expect…‘I’ll do something with you for, like, a hundred grand royalty up front’…100 grand is more than a managerial position in a retail store.” —Tori, [34:55]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On heartbreak as creative fuel:
  • “Boys Lie became our mantra. It empowered us and made us feel like we weren’t alone.” —Leah, [05:30]
• On business pivots:
  • “The product you thought was going to succeed doesn’t. You have to really think outside the box.” —Leah, [04:11]
• On celebrity power:
  • “Gigi Hadid walked out head to toe in Boys Lie…first year about $250k in sales, then second year $5M in sales from that moment.” —Tori, [03:13]/[12:20]
• On founder relationships:
  • “If me and Tori aren’t on the same page, our business was never going to succeed… If you can’t be open and vulnerable… it’s never going to work.” —Leah, [04:29]/[29:41]
• Wildest listener heartbreak tale:
  • “Men are willing to fake their own death rather than just say that they don’t want to be with somebody.” —Leah, [21:45]
• On trusting instincts:
  • “Trust your gut. If you think something is weird… your intuition is almost always right.” —Leah, [40:37]
• On manifestation and pivots:
  • “If you have a plan, God laughs…just because you manifest something doesn’t mean it’ll work out how you envisioned it.” —Tori, [41:18]
• On scrappy beginnings:
  • “We were jobless. We would literally climb up a pallet because I couldn’t drive a forklift…packing it out, Revolve-style.” —Tori, [13:59]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:13] Gigi Hadid’s viral moment launches Boys Lie into the mainstream
• [05:30-06:12] The “Boys Lie” mantra and its origins in friendship
• [08:04] Early funding, failed cosmetics launch, and lessons learned
• [12:20-12:43] The critical celebrity pivot and scaling up
• [15:35-16:11] Financial advice for founders (factoring, hiring)
• [17:10-18:34] From warehouse hustle to the genesis of the Boys Lie podcast
• [19:00-19:47] Their community: multi-generational, ever-evolving
• [21:45-22:08] Wildest heartbreak story from the Boys Lie audience
• [24:44] Building community and relatability via social media moodboarding
• [26:52-29:24] Navigating personal and business growing pains
• [34:55] On outsized influencer demands and business realities
• [36:25-37:55] Teasing the Von Dutch “Von Daddy” collaboration
• [40:37-41:42] Hard-won advice—trust your gut and embrace manifesting pivots

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Advice for Listeners

• Trust your instincts: If something feels off, act on it.
• Vulnerability is key: In business (and relationships), open communication and therapeutic support can save both ventures and friendships.
• Persistence through pivots: Even failures provide invaluable lessons; success may come in surprising forms.
• Build a community before selling: Begin with authentic conversation and shared experience, not just a product.
• Stay scrappy: Agency, improvisation, and hustle remain crucial even as you scale.

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Where to Find Boys Lie

• Shop: boyslieofficial.com, Revolve, Nordstrom, Urban Outfitters
• Podcast: Boys Lie
• Instagram: @boyslie

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This episode provides an open, raw account of heartbreak as creative fuel, the realities behind viral brands, and how female founders can leverage vulnerability, friendship, and hustle to build empowering, lasting businesses.

Transcript

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Gigi Hadid walked out head to toe in Boys Lie and it was like a full paparazzi moment. And this is again the same week that we were like, we're gonna have to close down shop. It was insane. It was like the first year we did about a quarter million in sales and then the second year we did 5 million in sales from that moment. Hey everyone.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Welcome back to Superwomen. Today's guest is Leah and Tori, the co founders of Boys Lie. Boys Lie is not only the most comfortable apparel I want to live in this lounge brand, but they have an incredible podcast about, you guessed it, the horror stories that occur when Boys Lie. And who hasn't had a Boy Lie to you? In this podcast we start about the inception of their business. It didn't start with clothing. Newsflash. What they had to do to actually get through some of the hardest moments in business and who they had to become to get through those moments. We also touch on future collaboration plans. I'm not going to spill it for you here. You have to listen to the episode and how they approach building community. Take a listen.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

It is hard when the product that you thought was going to succeed doesn't. You have to really like think outside the box and do whatever you can to make sure that you keep your business running.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

The brand sales were doing really good, but our relationship was really struggling and there was a moment in time where we really had to sit down and be like, our relationship will either make or break this brand.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

If me and Tori aren't on the same page, our business was never going to succeed to what it was today. And I think if you can't be open and vulnerable with your business partner, like, it's never going to work.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I'm Rebecca Minkoff, and this is Superwomen. Each week, inspiring women are interviewed to uncover the unexpected journeys, the challenges, and the unwavering spirit that makes them powerful. Get ready to be motivated by stories of resilience and discover the keys to

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

unlocking your own potential. Okay. Leah and Tori from Boys Lie. I am so honored and excited to have you on the podcast today.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We're so excited. I'm so sorry about my dog.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

The doll is excited, too.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Otis is very excited.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

This is brought to you by Otis.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yes. We love Otis. We love a dog or child. It's okay. So for those tuning in, what is Boys Lie? Tell me, tell me how what it is and how you guys both joined forces.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah, I mean, so essentially, Tori and I, we've known each other since we were, like, 12 years old. We grew up right down the street from each other in Wayne, Pennsylvania. We ended up dating two best friends, and so we would visit each other all the time in college, and our friendship just started to blossom, and the guys that were best friends that we were both dating, we ended up dumping. And our friendship continued on after that. And we went through a lot of heartbreaks, and we saw each other go through highs and lows and relationships and boys. I just started becoming something that we would say to kind of build us up. So, like, we were getting ready to go out. We say, boys lie. If we were riding around in Ubers in New York City, we would just scream it. And it just became some, like, I guess our mantra that empowered us and made us feel like we weren't alone,

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

especially when we were, like, getting ready to go out or anything like that. Like, even pre date, we would be together just getting ready and being like, boys lie is like, I don't know, it was almost like a code word for, like, feel more confident. And that boys will always kind of try and trick you and kind of see through that. So that's kind of where that came in or that phrase came in. And then it ended up really coming to life one very drunk night on St. Patrick's Day in New York City in a fire station. I was leaving to go across the country to work for a cosmetic manufacturer. And we kept just saying, like, we should do something with this name. This will be huge one day. And ultimately, we woke up very, very hungover. I looked up to see if Boys Lie was trademarked, and it wasn't. And so we Applied to trademark it, and we actually started. We failed miserably in makeup, which we can get into. It was one of our.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yes, I want to get into. I want to get into the failure, but I also want to go back. Why were you at a fire station on St. Patty's Day?

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So I actually worked at Yelp in New York. It was my first job out of college, and Tori was working in Philadelphia, and so she would come and visit me every single weekend. And when she was leaving, she's moving to California, and we were drunk. It was like, our last night in New York to, like, party together and also be together as best friends. And I think because, like, part of the reason, obviously, like, Boys Eye was something that meant so much to us at the time, because we would say it all the time. But I also figured that we wanted a way to, like, stick together somehow, even though she was moving across the country. So that's kind of why. That's why we were drunk at the fire station in Philadelphia or Sorry, in New York, and why we really were like, we have to do something together. We have to do something with this name. We wanted to be together, and it. Because we weren't, because we're going to be living across the country.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

And how long from moving to starting the makeup line was that? And were you both doing it on the side and, like, funding it with, like, your own?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So we raised money through friends and family or borrowed it, essentially, which ultimately was about, like, 250k that we were able to get people to believe in us. And again, when we did this, it was like, we put this all into the idea of being able to do it with cosmetics. We made our structure based on Fear of God by Jerry Lorenzo, as well as supreme and Pat McGrath. We initially thought that, you know, if we release one hoodie item around a bunch of makeup skus, people could still focus on the name, because, for instance, if you're wearing red nail polish, anyone can go to the store cosmetically and buy red. You don't really need to know, oh, who's that brand by? So Pat McGrath actually was the first to have, like, these bomber jackets with her makeup when she initially launched her collection. And Jerry Lorenzo just started off of one hoodie. Supreme is more of, like, a collectible. Good. So we kind of wanted to merge all those business ideas. It took us about a year and a half to do that, to launch with the makeup line. And we launched with over 48 SKUs and makeup, which was way too much. We overwhelmed our customer entirely. It was a strictly direct to consumer brand. And that's one of the reasons, I think why we failed so much. And people kept gravitating towards the close. Eventually we had to pivot. But there's kind of a funny drop story about that that we can get into after this.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

So was it hard? Like I know for me I had clothing first and then bags and bags is what took off. And I just remember being so like excited but also sad that my passion at the time was clothing. But here's this bag that seemed to have a life of its own. Did you feel like that when the hoodie was what people were gravitating towards? You're like, but we have makeup.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

The point in time that we were at was more so our business was failing so badly that we would have had to move back east from the west coast. And so we were desperate to like have any anything work at that point. Does it still hurts to this day? Like it's traumatizing to think about collaborating with even a cosmetic company just because it was such like a nerve wracking experience when your business is about to fail, obviously and you tried everything you possibly can to make something happen. So I think for us now it's harder thinking about cosmetics too. It's like a consumable good. So you're like constantly wanting to rebuy more when you run out. I think it's harder when it's clothes or bags where you have to consistently kind of reinvent the wheel to get people to buy in, which I'm sure you, you're very used to with your business.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Oh my God, it's like Madonna. It's like, how many times can I reinvent a fucking bag?

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah, well, what we've actually since obviously like the makeup was a long time ago, but since then we've seen success in restocking some of our top sellers and keeping like evergreen products. I'm not sure if that's similar for you, but it is hard. Like you, you have to constantly also be ahead of the game and think like what people are going to be buying in this time next year. And it's sometimes hard to predict the future, but it is, it is hard when, when the product that you thought was going to succeed doesn't you like

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

put so much weight too into seeing like, you know, does gifting work? Is there going to be a return on someone wearing this like item and people just seeing how much buying power they have? And like you really put so much faith into kind of this huge risk. And I Understand why when you're so passionate about it, it does feel like I completely failed myself and my hopes. But, no, we were just really happy that the.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We were jobless.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And we were jobless.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

So both of you had left your jobs by that time. So you. So, like, you don't have anything to fall back on if it didn't work.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We still did part time at the cosmetic company.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Okay.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We were, again, like, able to even press our own makeup in the back at this manufacturer that was doing white labels. So for us, it was kind of exciting to be able to touch, feel, see the makeup and know that it was a great product. But it's hard to get a consumer to trust something that you put on your face that's a new brand and not be able to test it out in a store.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Totally. And you said, you have a funny drop moment. What was that?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So in the height of her breakup with Tyler Cameron, Gigi Hadid walked out head to toe in Boys Lie. And it was like a full paparazzi moment. And this is again, the same week that we were like, we're gonna have to close down shop. We're gonna have to stop doing what we're doing, move back home, figure out, like, reworking our jobs a little bit,

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

how we can pay everybody back.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And immediately after that happened, it's. It was insane. It was like, the first year, we did about a quarter million in sales, and then the second year, we did 5 million in sales from that moment. So we pivoted completely. And it was just. I mean, both Lee and I were like, how do we scale this? Yeah, we. We were also in between running to, like, a T shirt mart to press hoodies, to basically, like, make sure that we can deliver to different customers on time, too. It was a very insane moment for the both of us.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

I think when any time a customer sees your brand now or my brand now, like, they don't realize how fucking scrappy you had those days. Like, I was shipping out of my apartment. You were running around getting, like, stuff printed, because when you have that kind of momentum, you can't stop. Like, you're like, fucking. Finally, I got to go with it.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

You really can't, like, talk about being scrappy, you know, like, during. When Covid hit too, we had to figure out a way to keep our business open and our warehouse open. So we started selling hand sanitizer to become an essential business. And that was the way we were. Like, how could we? But you have to. Especially when it's just like, either you Doing it alone or me and Tori, luckily we had each other. You have to really like think outside the box and do whatever you can to make sure that you, you get everybody their orders and you keep your business running. Yeah.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And it was crazy. It was just Lee and I in like this warehouse. Essentially neither of us could drive a forklift. So we'd get these pallets delivered. And at the time we were producing in Mexico because it was the easiest way to get items over versus overseas. Everything was really locked down during. And we would literally be. I would literally climb up a pallet because I couldn't drive a forklift and I would drop this box of delivered goods and Leah would be like, okay, we're packing it out like revolve style today. Like with our tag and guns and everything. I'd climb back down after I dropped the box.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We were in the best shape of our life at that point.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah. It was really.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We were like, yeah, yes.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

But if there's a will, there's a way for sure.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

So in those moments, are you still riding the line between this is amazing and we're growing, but how am I going to fund this? You know, what's going through your mind at the time of like now we have momentum. How do we keep it alive?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We were able to get support through a parenting company that ended up really taking on the brand. And basically outside of that, for people who can't, by the way, do have that private type of capital, what I'd recommend is doing a factoring company like Hilden. I don't know if you're familiar with that, Rebecca, but.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Oh, it's a way to familiar.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

It's a way to ensure your manufacturing essentially and deliverables to wholesalers who buy into the product. And in case their business goes flat, you still get paid out for those purchase orders.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah. I talk about factoring to every starry eyed girl who's like, I'm going to raise some money. And I'm like, no you're not.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

But I also think it's hiring the right people. Like when we were taking off, it's just me and Tori and we obviously couldn't do it alone. So hiring a team that can support you. And also just like because me and Tori aren't looking at the checks and balances every day, you know, we're not the best when it comes to operations. And so we needed people that we could lean on to help us like look at our P and L, look at where we're spending and also just like help us logistically find better manufacturers where we could save costs and our margins could increase. So we needed that team to also help us get to where we are now. It definitely couldn't have been the two of us. Yeah, I couldn't have been.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

No, it's the two of you for a while. And then you're like, I'm tapping out. I don't know how to read this document. And you're gonna. I'm gonna pay you to read it.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We wanted people to basically also be able to teach us. And no one on our team is doing something that Lee and I wouldn't try to do ourselves.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Hey, everyone.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Sorry for the quick pause.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I want to share something really exciting. Superwoman has a brand new YouTube channel. It's still under construction, but big things are coming in 2026. You'll find past episodes, new episodes, and some bonus content I cannot wait for you to see. Just search SuperWoman Media on YouTube and hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Okay, back to the pod.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

So tell me about the growth of the brand and then what made you decide to launch the podcast? And I think the podcast, obviously what you guys talk about is so up my alley, being that, you know, I launched with the morning after bag, so boys, definitely lie. But tell me about, you know, at what point did you say, okay, the next content pillar is going to be this? Or how you thought through that?

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So when we were driving every single day at the warehouse, we were actually living in San Diego at the time, driving to L. A Every day to go pack out these orders. And so we had a lot of time in the car. And so during that time, we were listening to a ton of podcasts. Like, call her daddy was a huge one at the time. My favorite murder, because it was the only way you could really kill the time. And so I would always be begging to her. I'm like, we have to do a podcast. We have to do a podcast. And I think during all this time, too, you know, like, our customers looked at us as, like, big sisters, Internet big sisters. Like, so when they would get broken up with or something happened, like their boyfriend cheated on them or they're going through some type of heartbreak, they would DM us and kind of tell us their story. So we thought, like, why not try to figure out a way to give our customers a voice anonymously? And because every single person on this planet has a heartbreak story, we're like, why don't we just see if this works and start something where we can again, like, give Our customers a voice. And so I think it's been really fun for the both of us.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I think the customers are also just like a huge pillar of the brand and the blueprint of what the brand is. It's. We've been able to build this community of people that are learning how to heal and being able to show them that they are part of the inspiration of what builds the brand on a day to day basis. It personifies the brand more than just being like, hey, this is just a label that you can stick on anywhere. There's so much more of a deeper meaning to wearing your heart on your sleeve. And we've been able to express that and our audience is very in tune with that and that's what makes it so special, I think.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

What was the magic sauce of that? Because obviously the buzzword is community and you gotta build one. And you know, I think it's hard for people to go back and build one. Like we built it with our customer early on, but then it, it wanes because as she, like we talked about before we started reporting, as she gets older and she wants more expensive bags, you sort of lose her. How do you, how do you look? How did you do that?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So I think our audience is growing with us, honestly. And that's been reflected even within looking at our demographic and how sales have progressed over time over the past seven years. So that's been a really cool piece to this is that the stories that we get even submitted within the podcast, they can range from a girl that's in high school or they can range from a woman who's a divorcee, who has three kids, whose husband cheated on her. And that's what's so cool about the brand, I think. And being able to grow this audience is. It's not narrow to just one specific age demographic.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Right.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

These are women who are even like single moms that have had to learn on their own to stand on their own two feet. And it's really amazing seeing that demographic grow and expand to different types of audience.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

I have some really good boys lie stories. Let me tell you.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We'd love to hear them.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah, we need to have you on our podcast next to share yours.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Oh my God. I could share the most crazy cringy. Like you just can't. You just are like after that someone would probably just become a lesbian because it was.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We actually have had some of those stories. I'm not going to lie.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yes, we have.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

I have, I have friends who have just said, you know what, I'm kind Of done with the men. Let's just see what happens. I'll share a small. A small boy's lie story, but do either of you have a good. Have any good tea that you want to share? Like a quick. Someone wrote in and said this, and then I'll share mine.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah. So there is this one girl. She was dating a guy for like eight or nine years, and she was, like, obsessed with him. They dated from a really young age, and they were in two different towns. She got a call one day from a woman that said that he had passed away on a motorcycle accident. And I mean, she was devastated. It took her years to heal through it. She had to go through therapy. She even saw, like an obituary online. She tried to contact his family. His family wouldn't answer her calls. And she was just, like, so lost and confused and just out of touch with anyone that was connected to him. So she felt like she was just so alone in this whatever. She was going through this grieving process. And years later, she is on her. A bachelor trip with her best friends. They all go to Mexico. They're in, like, a sprinter van, and they have to stop to go to the bathroom. So they end up stopping at this, like, water park randomly. And her friends are going to the bathroom, and she's sitting on, like, a lounge chair. And all of a sudden she sees the guy with the girl who called her to tell him that he had passed away and they had kids. And I guess during the period of time that he. She allegedly thought that he had passed, they, like, ran away together.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Oh, yeah. So men are willing to fake their own death rather than just say that they don't want to be with somebody.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

That is horrific. That is horrific.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Really?

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

She literally saw a ghost.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Okay, mine's not as bad now. Mine really just kind of suck. A friend of mine was in town and he was like, hey, do you want to hang out with my friend? We'll call him Mark. And I was like, sure. And I was dating and I was, like, excited that a friend actually recommended a guy. And I get to the dinner, and he's like a semi famous actor, really hot on tv, has his shirt off a lot. And I was like, I'm not into one night stands, but this is happening tonight. Yeah, we're not dancing. Whatever. Had the one night stand. And then he called again, and I was like, oh, maybe this will be like a relationship, even though, whatever. So he calls me a night. A couple of nights later, he's like, do you want to come over and have Hot chocolate at the hotel room with me. And I thought that was like the sweetest, like romantic. Like he's into me, we're going to be a couple after like the second whatever. I was very naive and I get there and he, we obviously things happen and this time he was not caring. He was just like getting his job done. And I was like, that's weird. And then I get out of the shower and I was like, so you know, we gonna have the hot chocolate and the marshmallows. He's like, nah, that was just like a ploy I said to like get you over here. I felt so used and so like,

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

yeah, like men are so.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Have you heard of Tinks's box theory?

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

No.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So she has this like box theory, which is like her dating advice. And she says that before you even go out with somebody that they, the, the person will instantly already have you in a box. And there's like three boxes. I think one is like date, one is hookup and one is nothing. So she says that when you go out with somebody, they already have you in one of those boxes and no matter what you do, you'll never be able to move from one box to another.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Like you'll never. If you hold out on sleeping with them, for instance, on the first night and you think that that'll get them attracted to sleeping with you on the third night. That doesn't matter to them. Like they already know by the first time they're seeing you if they're going to date you or not. Wow.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Wow.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I mean she has a huge following and a lot of people have been like repeating her theory and I do think it is correct. I mean for me personally, when I was dating too, like I was going out on dates with one thing in mind. I either like was like, I'm really into this person, I want to see where it goes. Or like this is nothing to me. I don' really care. I think men are obviously different. They're more of like a one track mind and I think women have more ability to open up their minds and a little bit more complex. But I, I think it's probably true personally.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Oh my gosh, that is terrible. And I'm really glad I'm married right now. That's all I'll say. Going back to building community, how do you then continue that messaging? You know, how do you keep that so front and center? Because as a company can grow, it can naturally sort of just become so big that it does feel impersonal.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Before we even announced what boys Lie. The brand was going to be. We created an Instagram and essentially was like a mood board for what we were inspiring to be. And we would post, you know, like, heartbreak memes, collages that had to do with, like, building yourself back up and empowering women. And that was sort of also at the time that, like, memes were becoming big. And so when people started following us, they didn't even know what our brand was going to be. But they're following the page because it related to them in some way, again, whether that be heartbreak or just wanting to feel strong again after getting out of a really hard relationship. So we built this community already before even announcing the brand. And I do feel like heartbreak is never ending. It's happening every day. It's happening right now. Someone's getting broken up with or cheated on. And so I feel like that's for. For our brand specifically, that we are able to continue. It is because it is something that is continuous, unfortunately. Unfortunately. But I think really changing the narrative to be. To make making people feel empowered when wearing the clothing has also been a huge thing for us and keeping that community alive because the people that have started with us from the beginning have probably at this point moved on and are feeling stronger within themselves from the time that they started following us in the first place, which probably was because they had their heart broken. So it is interesting to see them grow with us. Even with Tori being pregnant right now, we have people now styling the outfits also while pregnant, because that's the way that she styled it in our photo shoot. I think that's really special and really cool to see our community growing and aging with us and into this next chapter in life?

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

I love that. I love that. Are there separate stories that each one of you have of a time where you're like. Like, I guess as. As I'm looking at 20 years of being in business and we. We post a lot of nostalgia because I think it resonates so much and triggers memories with people of their own nostalgia. But one of the things is, like, I feel like I've lived 20 different versions of me in that time period. So are there moments that you feel like you changed because of that and then you became the next player for the next part of the. Of the video game? And what was that?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

There are definitely milestones that we've hit which you can see on either, like, I don't want to call it a superficial level, like, hitting that Forbes 30 under 30 in 2021 was like a milestone, essentially, or, you know, Collaborating with certain people that I would have never thought that I would be sitting with Dave Portnoy in Nantucket at his house, recording a podcast last raising money for animal shelters. Like, there are moments like that, I think that are huge for us where I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, holy, this is really happening right now. But I think for Leah and I, one of our bigger moments that we had was in the beginning of our success when the brand was really taking off and, like, pivoting into the clothing. The brand sales were doing really good, but our relationship was really struggling. And there was a moment in time where we really had to sit down and be like, where our relationship will either make or break this brand and the growth that we're at right now, and that is, that comes with being best friends. Growing up together, feeling like sisters and then sharing a house, having dogs together.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Too much.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah, you were too, like, intertwined.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And I feel like that milestone internally, it changed everything for the trajectory of the brand and even the way that we work and operate today. And that milestone alone after that that happened or occurred, I knew that there was no way that this brand was going to fail. We had to address a lot that was, like, personal. And on a work level, the dream never changed. So on a work level, like, even though we weren't talking in the house or anything like that, we'd still show up every single day at 6:30 in the morning being like, hey, we have this, this, and this to do today. That never stopped. That was never going to be something that we were going to put aside. It was the personal aspect of things. My mom was diagnosed with early onset. I had a couple things going on in my family. Leah was on cloud nine. She had just gotten a new boyfriend who's now her fiance, which is so crazy to say. And, like, there was just a shift between both of our mood levels of kind of distancing ourselves and our friend, our friendship and not being able to relate to one another. And that was really, you know, that's where you see things like what happened with Call Her Daddy, right? With Sophia Franklin and Alex Cooper, you see these. These girls who band together and they're like, we're best friends. We can work together. You have to be on the same side and you have to be on the same team. And that comes with overly communicating to each other.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Right?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And again, after that moment, from those reasons or talking those things out, we both recognize, like, we're surrendering to our vulnerability to each other and knowing that as best friends, working Together to make sure that we both see the same end goal, whether that be in work or in our friendship.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Communication is, like, obviously the most important part of any relationship that you're in. And at that point, like, Tori is saying, we were communicating, but we weren't really communicating. And I think that one conversation we were both. It. We sat down for like an hour is probably one of the hardest conversations we've ever had in our friendship. But if we, me and Tori aren't on the same page, our business was never going to succeed to what it was today. And I think if you can't be open and vulnerable with either your. Your fiance, your husband, your wife, your business partner, like, it's never going to work. But it is really scary to be confrontational sometimes and have those really intense conversations. I do think therapy helped because we were both in therapy at the time, and I think if we weren't, maybe it wouldn't have happened in the way that it did. So I highly also do recommend if you are going through something similar, seeing a therapist, because it really did help, I think, navigate how to have that conversation on both of our ends.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah, we had a. We had a business mediator between my brother and I, and so that's who we would use because those conversations can get really spicy. Yeah. And if you don't have that. That referee, it doesn't end well.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

No, it's. It's really hard. And also there are people that we've had and witnessed who have tried to kind of use us against each other or, like, privately sidebar us to kind of play. Play us against each other. And what's funny is they don't know that we're, like, talking this whole time or that we stand on. Yeah. So we know everything.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

How many of those people can exist in someone's life and, like, rip apart relationships as, like, the little third party, like, just like Nat in the background. It's quite insane, 100%.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And I'm sure you've had that too, where you just kind of feel like you've been blindsided. But we're very lucky in the way that we've been able to communicate to make sure that that doesn't happen.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah, well, it was very rare that people can spot that. So good on you for recognizing it. Because we didn't spot it for a long time. We're like, oh, is that person. Okay, cool. They were with us for 10 years.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Awesome.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

No, I. We're also lucky that there is two of us. Like, I will say I feel very lucky Like, Rebecca, you've really faced and done a lot of this as the face of your brand solo. So that's. That's very cool. That's something that I personally couldn't do. I'm lucky that I've always been able to. We kind of act as this, like, balancing scale. Someone plays good cop, someone plays bad cop, and we both meet in the middle. So, yeah, we sometimes when we look at certain founders where they are just the soul face their brand, I'm like, that's really, really impressive. And not a lot of people give you enough credit.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah, I think having both, like, with female founder collective, it's shared faces. Right. And then it's for. For Rebecca Minkoff, it's me. It's definitely an interesting dynamic. It's almost like sometimes with Ally and I, I'm like, do you want to take this one? Do you want to take this one? Or if they said too many quotes of me and something does that cause upset or vice versa. So I feel like sometimes I'm like, it's easier to be solo. I don't have to make sure anyone else is okay.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

That makes sense.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

That does make sense.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Were there any other hard times that highlight, like what you had to go through and what you overcame?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah. I think for us, the biggest mistakes. We were really lucky. Happened in the beginning of putting the brand together and learning how to scale it. We got used and abused and we were transplants that moved to Los Angeles. So it was very easy to be taken advantage of and think that people had our best interest at heart, but really just wanted something out of us and they didn't really care for the outcome of the brand. It was really about themselves. We were lucky that with the mistakes that we made, they weren't unfixable, but they were. So. I mean, they were really bad financially. They were really, really bad and really, really tough on the brand. So while we did, for instance, 5 million in rev the following year, it didn't mean we didn't have a lot of dues to pay. And that's really hard. I think people look at brands and they expect that these brands have infinite amount of cash to just roll out. And hon don't understand that the retail business is incredibly, incredibly difficult. It's risky. And a lot of the cash that flows through the business, it's not the cash that people imagine just because the revenue number is what it is goes

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

right back into the business next po.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah, I'm happy you say that because my brand's been around for A long time. But it's had. Obviously, it's like, troubles, especially Covid. And now when I get proposals, it's like people have it stuck in their head, and I'm like, do you think that I'm a billionaire?

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Like, I'm so patterned.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

But, like, $40,000 to do an activation where no one even knows you're my influencer partner. Like, either you think I'm really stupid and rich, or you just think I'm really rich.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah, we go through the same thing.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

No. And some of these, like, we work with a lot of different talent, but some of the talent that we've gotten reach out from. They're like, oh, which, by the way, we haven't paid to play. We. We don't have an affiliate program set up yet that's coming down the line with shop my. But they expect, like, oh, like, I'll do something with you for, like, a hundred grand royalty up front.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I'm like, let's see yourself through.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah. I would love to see how many items of what the retail price was of an item that you sold that you made 100 grand off of. Like, can you. Can you show it to me so that I know that this is worth it? And a majority of the time, they can't. And 100 grand is more than a managerial position in a retail store that they would get as a salary for a year, I don't think. I think people have this, like, really weird mindset of, like, oh, 100 grand is nothing for, like, a starting job. And that's just not true.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

It's not true. And then they'll come back to us after, like, 40k is fine. And we're just like, makes no sense.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

I know. I know. The numbers, I feel like, have gotten so unhinged. I was going to do an event in Miami, and each influencer's rate was the cost of my entire event. And I was like, I'm out. I'm going to go to l. A. Where I know some people that'll fucking.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I mean, these influencers, though, I will say they're making lots of money.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And, yeah, we started in the wrong job, I guess.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

What are we doing?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

The way that they don't have to hold inventory and they can get that amount of pay is. It's amazing and it's impressive, But I think for us, it's. It's even more impressive when you work with someone that actually can sell a product.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And that does have buying power, not just following. And I think that that's really, really Hard today to navigate through as any brand owner in wanting to work with anyone 100%.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

So what's next? You have an exciting collaboration. I need to hear everything.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So we have a very nostalgic collaboration coming out. Leah, do you want to say who it's with?

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yes. We are collabing with Von Dutch and we're very, very excited. Again, it's one of those brands that we kind of also grew up wearing. So it's weird to be sitting here today even talking with you again. Like one of the first bags I ever bought or my mom, I have to say, bought for me was Rebecca Minkoff bag. So it is really crazy to kind of like think about where we were then and where we are now and who we're collabing with and who we're talking to. So we're really excited about it. It releases in June, so yeah, we're very excited.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

So talk me through the Von Dutch, like decision making tree because clearly I grew up with it. I couldn't afford the fucking hat, okay?

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I just couldn't.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

So I just had to borrow my friends and I wanted one. And then when the trend ended, I was like, oh, thank God I didn't spend money on this hat, but I didn't have any money for. But I just remember when you saw like all the celebrities with it, you know, Britney, Justin, Ashton, whoever. What made you guys go, okay, this is the partner that we want to partner with?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So Vondage has changed and, like made a huge shift, I think, in the way that their brand is represented. Now I know that there was a shift in management too, over some course of time, but for this specifically, it's supposed to be dropping during Pride Month, which is the month of June. And we got really creative with the name in regards to, like, how we can kind of play on Von Dutch and boys lie together. So it's actually called Von Daddy the collection.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Oh my God.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We got to shoot it with Hallie Bachelder and Dylan Cavich, who we love as these two talent influencers and. Or celebs, I guess now. Yeah, I don't know if you know or are aware of them, but Dylan especially has his famous quote, which is shut the fuck up and fuck me.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

It's really absurd, but it's just he is the moment, so. And so. And so is she. And so and me and Tori, sometimes we feel like we're not a part of like the TikTok community because we feel old. Like, luckily we have a lot of younger people working for us that can Help us keep up with the trends. But we felt like they were the perfect faces of the brand and to kind of help the brand, help both sides of boys, like and Von Dutch kind of get back into the mix and do it together.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

And when you say you're old, how old are you?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

32.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

32.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

God.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And you just don't know.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

But we can't keep up with the trends, you know, like sometimes I'm like, what is that? Like it's a tick tock trend, but I've never heard of it.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

You know, keep up with the trends. I might as well dig my own grave.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Okay, I'm 45.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Did I also have never know you

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

would never know what to do that like what, what?

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

I don't get it. Can you explain to me why is it a trend? Okay, okay.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

What is six, seven? I still don't know. Some things I'll never understand. That's why we need younger people to explain them to us.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yes, yes, we do. There was a time where my. Do you know what gooning and mogging are?

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I've heard of that.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I have no idea.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

I'm mogging, so my trainer teaches me these words and then I go home and I try and speak the language to my son. So gooning is when you're like looking in front of the mirror and like I look so good. Mogging is doing something else to yourself. And my trainer, don't say mogging to your son. Ask him about gooning. And I was like, okay, great, great, great. And I get home and I'm like, do you ever mog or whatever. Everyone's like, mom, that's disgusting. Why not me? That question. And I was like, oh shit. It was the other one I was supposed to ask.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Oh my God, I need to look, I need to Google what that means.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I'm sure that'll be me sometime soon with my daughter when she's born, but oh my God.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

So that comes out in May. What else? Is there anything else that is happening or that you wanted to touch on that I didn't ask you today?

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

No, it actually drops June, but we announced mid May.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yes, yes.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

So it's, it's fine. It's similar, but yes.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

All right, last question for you both. Is there a piece of advice you'd like to leave my listeners with that you feel like was actually helpful? Someone gave it to you and it worked or you learned it, you know, in your biggest challenge. And, and it's, it's applicable to anybody.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I think ours isn't something that Somebody gave us. And it's so cliche, but it is so true. And that's really just like, trust your gut. If you think something is weir or you think something's off or maybe that you shouldn't be doing it, then listen to that. Because your intuition is almost always right. And I think that throughout these times, we have gotten burned in the past. We always felt like before it happened that there's something a little bit off, but we didn't act on it.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And it.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

It just. I think that it's something that is so powerful, your intuition, believing in yourself and believing that, like, whatever you're feeling and thinking is right. And just to follow that. Because if we did that earlier with some of the things that we did get burned on, we wouldn't have. We wouldn't have gotten burned. And. Sorry, that is cliche, but that really, for me, is like, the most important thing.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Personally, I'll lay that up with more. So if there's a will, there's a way, and, like, manifestation, it can happen as long as you take the right actions, of course, to make it happen. You know, if you have a plan. We. And I have been saying this the past two weeks. It's been, like, the highlight of my past two weeks. But if you have a plan. God laughs. It doesn't mean just because you manifest something that it can't work out. It just might not work out in the way that you envisioned it.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Right. And it might come in back in a different way, something similar. But that's kind of what happened for us anyways.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Something is manifesting for me right now, and I'm like, this is not how I expected it to go, but I think it's gonna be the same end result.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Not the path that I thought it would be to get there.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

It's kind of always how it works.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

But it's exciting. Yeah.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And I think that failure is like, learning experiences are so important again. Lee and I were so lucky to fail so hard in the beginning, even though it sucked and we were really, like, we had no plan. We were not able to, like, understand what our next step in life was or for the brand. But I don't know, it just kind of. It's a good thing to surrender to those mistakes and learn from them and make sure you don't make them twice.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

I love it.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Well, thank you for coming on. I'm excited. I can finally afford a Von Dutch. Yes.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We'll send you one.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Yeah, we'll have to send you some of the collab.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yeah. And where can everyone find you? Follow you? All the things lie.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

You could buy from [e-mail] or you can find us on Revolve, Nordstroms and Urban Outfitters. All the above.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

And our podcast is just Boys Live. We make it pretty easy for everybody to find us.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Okay, well, I'm. I would love to. Come on. I have. I have worse stories that we can tell.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We'd love to.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Yes.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

We'd love to have you on. Okay.

[Tori (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Definitely. Thank you for your time today too, Rebecca. We really appreciate you and we love Rebecca Minkoff.

[Leah (Co-founder of Boys Lie)]

Big fans.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

Thank you. That makes me happy.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Thanks so much for watching today's episode. Before you head out, I want to invite you to my brand new YouTube channel for all things superwomen. It's a fresh space I'm building out for 2026, packed with past episodes, future episodes, and some special new content we're cooking out. Just search SuperWoman Media on YouTube and subscribe so you're there for everything. Coming next. I'll see you over there. Thanks for listening to today's episode.

[Host of Superwomen Podcast]

If you've enjoyed it, take a second

[Rebecca Minkoff]

to rate and review the show. Wherever you're tuning in. It really helps others find the podcast. You can follow me on Instagram, Rebecca Minkoff and msuperwoman or for a slice into my personal life, eckyminkoff. And don't forget to check out my book, Fearless the New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage and Success. See you next week.