What Comes After the “It” Product? | Hart Hagerty

Summary

Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff – Episode Summary

Episode Title: What Comes After the “It” Product? | Hart Hagerty
Guests: Rebecca Minkoff (Host), Hart Hagerty (Founder, Hart)
Date: March 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a deep dive into the business and personal journey of Hart Hagerty, founder of Hart (shopheart.com), who successfully evolved her brand from the “Warby Parker of tassel earrings” into a line of soulful, meaningful jewelry. Rebecca and Hart candidly discuss reinvention after a breakout product, how to maintain authenticity amidst pressure for constant newness, balancing motherhood and entrepreneurship, surviving the “ugly middle,” and the emotional and creative stories behind modern heirloom jewelry. Together, they unpack what it means to persevere, stay true to yourself, and thrive as a woman entrepreneur.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reinvention After the "It" Product

• Starting Out: Hart's journey began in Shanghai, where she fell in love with fashion and began making tassel earrings inspired by street markets and Parisian influences (04:05).

  • "I was naive enough to think that I could be the Warby Parker of tassel earrings. And I was. I sold almost 200,000 pairs of these earrings." – Hart (05:20)

• After years of success, fatigue set in, and Hart pivoted to creating gold-plated charms and pendants, filling a unique market gap (05:40).

• Navigating Brand Expansion: Both discuss the excitement and terror of moving beyond a single successful product.

  • "How do you evolve and thoughtfully expand your line?... It really comes back to just having like a unique point of view and really going back to yourself." – Hart (06:19)

2. Building an Authentic, Soulful Brand

• Hart's passion is creating jewelry as talismans—bridging affordable, meaningful pieces with the intention and gravitas commonly reserved for fine jewelry.
  • "People have been wearing jewelry for eons... to connect to a higher power, to honor loved ones, to call in something." – Hart (06:54)
• She’s committed to making jewelry with meaning accessible—drawing on spirituality, manifestation, and personal stories.
  • "I've always been obsessed with jewelry as a tool for self-expression..." – Hart (06:19)

3. Motherhood, Loss, and the “Ugly Middle”

• Hart shares the challenges of juggling a fast-growing business with two young children and personal loss, coining this period the “ugly middle” or “dark ages.”
  • "It was 2020. I had two babies 17 months apart. I lost one of my best friends to cancer. It was a really hard time. The business was growing, but we didn't have the team in place." – Hart (10:40)
• The pressure made her lose touch with her creative intuition, impacting the brand.
  • "When I wasn't really doing well personally, the brand did suffer a little bit ... When I look back at the creative, the photo shoots, ... they're not as strong as they are now." – Hart (11:34)
• Key takeaway: Resilience and building the right support team are crucial during scaling.

4. Lessons in Longevity and Resilience

• "You have to stay in the game. You have to have resilience." – Hart (15:37)
• Founders don't need formal business or design education to be successful; relentless curiosity and trust in personal intuition are as valuable.
  • "I used to have so much like, oh, we can't do this because I didn't go to fashion school or business school, and I'm just as smart as someone that got their MBA at Harvard." – Hart (16:56)
• The “figure it out” mindset is highlighted: Founders thrive by believing in their ability to learn as they go.

5. Intuitive Style & Product Modularity

• Hart and Rebecca discuss stacking jewelry intuitively rather than following rigid style rules.
  • "A good necklace stack is following the same rules as a great room or great outfit—you want to mix and match different textures, materials, color, length." – Hart (20:21)
• Hart's brand emphasizes modularity—customers can mix, match, and express themselves daily.
  • "No one else is doing this in the industry in our category... you can slide one charm off of one necklace, put it on the pearls, or slide on a cord." – Hart (23:52)

6. Infusing Meaning and Spirituality into Products

• Hart was raised on conversations about spirituality and metaphysics, influencing her work.
  • "I've always been obsessed with manifestation, the power of our mindset, spirituality." – Hart (25:34)
• The design process involves translating antique inspirations (like Vesta cases) into modern, meaningful charms.
  • "So the message behind it is what lights you up. Instead of matches inside, carry inside the thing that makes you... light your fire." – Hart (28:39)
• She believes in keeping things playful, not overly serious—balance between meaning and fun.

7. Product Integrity Over Trends

• Both reflect on staying true to product ethics and quality instead of chasing trends.
  • "If you do not have a good product, you don't have a good business." – Hart (30:50)
  • "We have to stop chasing the drugs of 'it has to happen overnight.'" – Rebecca (30:54)
• Hart strives for longevity and innovation without losing core brand values.

8. Manufacturing, Team, and Direct Customer Connection

• Hart maintains hands-on involvement in design, assembly, and customer service.
  • "Everything is assembled in Charleston, like 10ft from my desk... fulfilled out of our headquarters in downtown." – Hart (33:15)
• Emphasis on ethical sourcing: Regular visits to partner factories and fostering real relationships.

9. Choosing How to Show Up as a Founder

• Rebecca is open to being a visible face of her brand; Hart prefers occasional, intentional appearances.
  • "I'm not going on TikTok... But where I will show up is, like, what feels good to me, which is substack, writing, podcasts, store events." – Hart (34:50)
• Both agree—there’s no single “right way” to express leadership or be the face of a brand.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "There's a delicate balance of letting things go and understanding that rejection is redirection." – Hart (02:03, 18:30)
• "If you want to do it like everyone else, you're going to end up like everyone else." – Rebecca (17:26)
• "Founders who succeed believe they can figure anything out." – Hart (15:37)
• "When I wasn't doing well personally, the brand did suffer a little bit." – Hart (11:34)
• "We have to stop chasing the drugs of 'it has to happen overnight.'" – Rebecca (30:50)
• "I want to be able to give that meaning to people who aren't ready or don't really want to spend that money on solid gold." – Hart (29:10)
• On modern branding:
  "If you're a founder and you've got a lot of charisma, you're in luck, because 95% of what you're doing now is content and 5% is product." – Hart (37:28)

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Important Timestamps

• Introduction to Hart & Main Theme – [01:37]
• Early Career and Tassel Earrings Origin Story – [04:05]
• Pivot to Charms, Market Gap – [05:40]
• Challenges of Scaling, “Ugly Middle” – [10:40]
• Staying Authentic & Lessons Learned – [13:33]
• Imposter Syndrome & Nontraditional Paths – [15:16], [16:56]
• Style, Intuition, & Stacking Methodology – [20:21]
• Brand Modularity & Product Innovation – [23:52]
• Meaning, Spirituality, and Storytelling in Design – [25:18], [28:39]
• Ethics, Product Integrity & Longevity – [30:50]
• Direct Customer Connection & Team – [33:15]
• Being the Face of the Brand Discussion – [34:37]

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Resources & Links

• Shop Hart: shopheart.com
• Instagram: @shophart
• Store Locations: Charleston, New York (Nolita), Nashville, opening soon in Nantucket; traveling trunk shows nationwide
• Rebecca Minkoff’s Book: "Fearless: The New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage and Success"

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Resilience and evolution are key to moving past a single breakout product.
• Authenticity and intuition often beat formal business training in the real-life challenges of entrepreneurship.
• Jewelry—as self-expression—carries power, meaning, and connection and can be both accessible and durable.
• There's no one-size-fits-all approach to entrepreneurship, creative leadership, or being the face of a brand.
• Building a values-driven, human-scale company—with hands-on founder involvement and attention to sourcing and quality—remains an attainable and rewarding path even after major growth.

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Transcript

[Heart]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Heart]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Heart]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Heart]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

And right on cue.

[Heart]

Hey, still got my hoodie?

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Nope. But I've got tonight's dinner paid for. Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste list. Now with no selling fees, payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.

[Heart]

Spring is here and the shopping list is long. Time to make a Lowe's run. Buy three bags, get three free of stay Green one cubic foot garden Soil Plus. Right now, members can earn four times the points on an eligible purchase. Start Spring off strong with these deals and more. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Ballot through 325 while supplies last Soil offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii Loyalty program Subject to terms and conditions. See lowe's.com terms for details. Subject to change Point boosters subject to exclusions and more Terms apply. One time only offer. I used to have so much, oh, we can't do this because I didn't go to fashion school, I didn't go to business school. And I'm like, I'm just as smart as someone that got their MBA at Harvard. I can play in this game.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Hey everyone, you're listening to Superwomen. Today's guest I came across when I saw her amazing collaboration and thought, oh my God, I have to have Heart's jewelry. She is the founder of Heart shopheart.com We get into the meaning behind the soul of a brand. We get into the dark ages of what it's like to be a mother, a founder, a wife, but also the grit it takes and how being true to yourself is ultimately what is going to make you win. Take a listen.

[Heart]

There's a delicate balance of letting things go and understanding that rejection is redirection.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

There's a creative way to do everything. But I feel like any legacy jewelry brand that's out there today, they're like, you don't like silver and gold? Well, guess what? We're going to keep making it.

[Heart]

There is a lot of pressure for newness. It's a good way to grow. It's like one of the levers that you can push. I just always have to go back to my filter of, like, soulful, timeless jewelry. All of this magic and storytelling and meaning. I don't want it to be relegated to the fine jewelry world. I want to be able to give that meaning to people.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I'm Rebecca Minkoff, and this is Superwomen. Each week, inspiring women are interviewed to uncover the unexpected journeys, the challenges, and the unwavering spirit that makes them powerful. Get ready to be motivated by stories of resilience and discover the keys to unlocking your own potential. All right, welcome.

[Heart]

Thank you for having me.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I'm so excited to have you. And we are christening my studio.

[Heart]

That is beautiful. You should be really proud. It's gorgeous. I just want to, like, take a nap in here or something.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I know. It's like a womb. It's like a warm, calm space.

[Heart]

So good.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So let's talk about jewelry today and your journey. We're not going to get into your backstory, because guess what we discussed last night.

[Heart]

Yeah, you can Google it.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

You can Google it.

[Heart]

Like, let's just Google it.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I was honestly so refreshed when you said that last night, because I have to tell my origin story a lot. Right. Just fudgeing. Google it. Like, aren't you sick of hearing the same. I know. Sick of hearing the same shit.

[Heart]

And, like, I'm here to talk about things I haven't talked about before, so.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

That's right.

[Heart]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So I discovered you when I saw that you did a collab with rms, and I was like, I am obsessed. Like, a locket with some, like, amazing lip color in it. Like, I'm in. And then our team's connected. And I didn't know this about you, but you were in Shanghai when you thought about what became your career. So can we start there?

[Heart]

Well, I grew up in Charleston, and then I majored in Chinese and sociology of Vanderbilt. And fast forward, I studied abroad in Shanghai, fell in love with it. It was the recession, so I moved there, and I started working in fashion, and I was working as a fashion editor, actually. It was really cool. Such an education made so much fun. And I discovered these tassels at these fabric markets we would go to. And at the time, I was, like, obsessed with Isabel Marant, and I was friends with a lot of these like, very cool French girls. So I started making them into tassel earrings. And this was like back in 2012. And I would literally just like get them made with like a little hook and some like a lighter. It was very, very, you know, jv. And I kept selling them on the side. And then I was living in New after I left Shanghai, and I would wear my earrings to work and people would stop and ask me about them. And I actually got fired from my job. That's a different story.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Or is that separate?

[Heart]

No, I was over my skis. I was under qualified. It was not. I was working at Milk Studios. It was a fantastic job, but it was like, that's a whole other story.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Okay, but I appreciate that you said that you were unqualified because so many people are like, I got fired and I'm amazing and how dare they? But you're like, I wasn't qualified for the gig.

[Heart]

I mean, it wasn't entirely my fault. Fault. I think there was like some poor management, but it, whatever, it's made me a better boss. And it was definitely the universe pushing me back into doing my own thing. And then I was like, you know what? I'm going to try and give these tassel earrings a go. And I was naive enough to think that I could be the Warby Parker of tassel earrings. And I was. And I did this for like three, four years. I sold almost 200,000 pairs of these earrings. We still carry them today. But then I got a little tired of just telling the same thing over again. And so in around 2019, I saw an interesting gap in the market with jewelry. And that's where I pivoted into gold plated charms and pendants and stuff like that.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So I want to touch on the idea of the Warby Parker of tassels, because as you know, when I was starting, I was known for one thing.

[Heart]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

You know, it was the morning after the bag, and like, you're riding this wave and then you're like, oh, okay, I got to come up with something else. This can't last forever. And that moment is like exciting and terrifying at the same time because it's like, what if it doesn't hit?

[Heart]

It's really tricky. Like, how do you evolve and thoughtfully expand your line? And I think it really comes back to just having like a unique point of view and really going back to yourself. And what is it that feels super meaningful to me and not just what's a gap in the market? And I know that word authenticity is so overused now. But I think that the success of the charms, it was two things. On one hand, it was we filled a very big gap in the market, which by the way, still exists today, which is high quality fashion jewelry that's durable, well made and soulful, but at a good price point. And on the other hand, the other part of that, like Venn diagram is that it came from a very authentic, personal place. For me, I've always been obsessed with jewelry as like this like, anthropological perspective of how it's like a tool for self expression people. No other jewelry fashion product has as much intimacy and soul. People have been wearing jewelry for eons about, you know, to connect to a higher power, to honor loved ones, like to call in something. And when I looked at the fashion market, you would see, like, you know, you've got soulless garbage. Honestly, it's like gonna end up in a landfill that's mass produced and it

[Rebecca Minkoff]

breaks after the first wear.

[Heart]

Right. Or tarnishes. And then on the other end of the spectrum, you've got beautiful fine jewelry, antique jewelry, solid gold, but it's very expensive. It's not for everybody. And I'm like, why isn't there something in the middle? And so that's what I put my focus on in 2019, which, by the way, when I was pregnant with my daughter and I didn't know it at my first jewelry trunk show. And I feel like there's something there about like, I don't know, I always say, like, babies are like, good for business because you just like, you're just in that, like, creative energy, you know? Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I remember I felt like my most strong. I was like pushing a sled eight months pregnant, like for weightlifting. And I was like, I'm woman, I'm strong.

[Heart]

I saw your Instagram about like, how you took your babies all around the world, like to factories. I did not do that. Like, that's amazing. You were a superwoman for sure.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Well, I just decided if I'm gonna have a baby and then I'm breastfeeding and I'm pretty psychotic about that that they had to come with me because, like, I had a scare once where I went to get on the plane with the milk and they wouldn't let me through. And I was unwilling to give up my milk. So I was like, fuck it, the baby's coming. That must be a lot easier than the stress of, like Korean air not letting me take my milk on the plane.

[Heart]

I can't. I'm just so happy to be here. I look up to you. So Much.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Oh, well, I'm happy you're here. And I. I just love that you. You do fill a gap. Because I feel like today, with the world as it is, with the price of gold.

[Heart]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Like, jewelry can be very unattainable.

[Heart]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

That's meaningful and sentimental. And I feel like you have this sentiment to your jewelry that is also attainable. Like, you can, like I like to say, like, you can buy my bag and you can still eat. You can wear your jewelry and buy your jewelry and still eat.

[Heart]

Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I've always been obsessed with manifestation and spirituality. And again, like, going back to the history of jewelry as, like, having this talismanic property. I literally have notes on my phone about, like, different charm ideas, and it's usually something that I need to work on myself. Like, we have a charm that says let go. You know, like, let go or be dragged. Like, that's something I struggle with sometimes. Or, you know, we have a charm about. I mean, gosh, there's so many. Why is this, like, I could just go on forever.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

It was really hard to choose.

[Heart]

Yeah, it's. That's. Yeah, that's probably our biggest problem is, like, how do we reign it in and, like, focus. Because I have a million charm ideas. But it's also. That's the fun of it.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Everyone, sorry for the quick pause. I want to share something really exciting. Superwoman has a brand new YouTube channel. It's still under construction, but big things are coming in 2026. You'll find past episodes, new episodes, and some bonus content I cannot wait for you to see. Just search SuperWoman Media on YouTube and hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Okay, back to the pod. So I do want to get into the business because you've been around for 10 years. There's a lot of people out there, especially those listening, that are like, wow, year one, year two is hard. Like, can I keep going? You have four stores with five on the way.

[Heart]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And I think that most people, obviously, they see where you are now, but I'd love to touch on the hard work. Like, you made the pivot from. Okay. I'm no longer the Warby Parker of tassels to Charms.

[Heart]

Right.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Take me to ugly middle.

[Heart]

I call the Ugly Middle the dark ages. It was 2020. I had two babies back almost back to back. 17 months apart. Oh, my gosh.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

God bless you.

[Heart]

I lost one of my best friends to cancer. It was a really hard time. It was also the time that the business really demanded a lot of me and the messy middle for. For me and Curry, my sister and my business partner is when the business was growing, but we didn't have the team in place to support us. So we were. It was like, whack a mole. And it was also putting a lot of stress on me and her to, you know, I would be, like, working on a design document or whatever, and then I'd have to be pulled in for, like, a private shopping appointment at our little store because we didn't have enough people or something. And that was a really tough time. And I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. It was really hard, I think, partly too, because my second. My baby, like, was not a good sleeper. And so I was really running on a lot of not good amount of sleep. And I think what's interesting is when I wasn't really doing well personally, the brand did suffer a little bit, even though we did have tremendous growth in that year. When I look back at the creative, the photo shoots, when I look back at some of the designs, they're not as strong as they are now. And I think it was because I lost myself a little bit. And it's so important to stay in tune with your intuition and with what's your. Why, what is your unique perspective. And I remember at the time, like, we were doing some photo shoots, and I was, like, obsessed with Cezanne and their website, and I was like, we need to have our website look like Cezanne's website. Website. I love Saison. It's a beautiful brand, but it's not my brand. And I. A lot of the photos that we took were light backgrounds, and the models were wearing, you know, kind of cutesy, simple clothes. And it was very, like, airy, and it looked like Saison, and it was very commercial. It worked, I guess. But now for these photo shoots I'm planning, I'm like, let's get weird. Let's, like, layer on all the jewels. Let's put some weird, like, antique skulls in the photo. Like, that's who I am. And it just took me time to get back there and get that support. And only advice I can give is just, you gotta power through it. And it's like this ugly chicken or the egg situation and that it's hard to stay in tune with that inner voice and, like, who you are. And especially when you're kind of pulled in a lot of different directions with the business and stressed out. And really, the way I got out of it was we just kind of had resilience and we were Able to hire people. And as you know, like, hiring is a lot of work, finding that person. So I think you just have to power through it and find the right people to support you and not feel guilty about hiring. People like Curry and I are very conservative with our cash flow, and we've always been really scrappy. We don't have outside funding. And so to bring on, like, a $80,000 manager or $60,000 salary, it was like, oh, my God, you know? But of course, when that person came on, it enabled us to do our jobs better, and it begets more success and productivity.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I think the hardest part for any founder is if they're choosing to have kids and they're in that middle point where they don' enough money to hire out. Like, we have to brainwash ourselves that somehow it's going to be easier. Like, that nexus of I'm having babies not big enough to provide support for myself. It's like, you did lose yourself. I lost myself because it's more demanding than anything I think anyone anticipates. Sure.

[Heart]

I mean, and you had four. Like, I remember folding laundry, and, you know, my husband and I were thinking about having a third, and I was folding laundry, and I had my baby, my oldest, my husband's. And, like, I was thinking, wow, if I had a third child, that would be more laundry and more time. And it was like this very visual moment where I'm like, I can't. I'm tapped out. Like, I'm good. I'm very blessed. We're gonna shut that door. And now, I don't know, I'm just in a whole new era with work, and I'm so grateful for it. I just feel like I'm really just now getting started about, like, who I am and what our goals are and where we want to be. I'm just so amped up and ready to grab life by the balls. Let's do this.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Well, it's nice to know. And I think other women hearing this, like, you can have that rebirth several times.

[Heart]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Not to make this an analogy to women that have multiple orgasms. I'm not one of them. But, like, in Work and Phase, you get to have, like, the multiple hits at this energy and excitement. Like, I had a friend last summer, but he's like, why are you working so hard? Are they, like, slave drivers to the people that bought the company? I was like, they don't ask me to do anything. This is all me. And just like you, it's like this revival of, like, I want to go back. I'm ready. I'm through the, like, foggy years of, like, toddlers and babies and, like, let's fudge go.

[Heart]

Let's go.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And it's fun because you have the maturity and the perspective and, like, I'm here. I'm not at risk of going under.

[Heart]

I. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like once we hit a certain revenue point, I don't know, I remember thinking, I think we're going to be okay. Like, we can't underestimate the power of how long a brand can stay, the power of the longevity of in the marketplace. I feel like we're starting to have that recognition. People like you are willing to have me on their podcast.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Willing? Come on, don't say it like that. Give yourself more credit.

[Heart]

Okay, sorry. This is something I'm still working on, by the way. Can you tell? Imposter syndrome. But, you know, like, now we have big brands coming to us to do collaborations, and it just kind of snowballs, and you have to just stay in the game. You have to stay in the game. You have to have resilience. And I think one of the biggest, like, lessons that I have learned and if I could impart any advice is, like, just the power of figuring it out. Some business coach, executive business coach, he said that, like, all of his top clients, they're, you know, Fortune 500 CEOs, they all have one thing in common, and not just CEOs, but, like, founders. They all have this unwavering belief that they can figure anything out. And what's interesting is that because those people have that belief, they're willing to go into unchartered waters where someone who doesn't have that, so they're going to naturally put themselves in marketplaces or situations or, like, I can do this. And we've had so many challenges along the way, but we have figured things out. And so, really, I'm just building up my trust muscle. It's like, all right, like, yeah, let's open a store and untuck it. Like, we'll figure it out. Or.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So I feel like my next book is going to be called We'll Figure it out. Because I fully identify with that sentiment of, like, we put ourselves in uncharted waters because we're like, at least we'll figure it out. We'll get some garbage and learn how to swim and, like, or stay afloat or whatever.

[Heart]

Right, right. And, like, also, the more I'm here, the longer I'm in this industry, I'm like, I'm just as smart as anybody else. I used to have so much like, oh, we can't do this because, like, I didn't go to fashion school, I didn't go to business school, and I'm like, I'm just as smart as someone that got their MBA at Harvard. You know what I mean? Or, like, I can play in this game. And my hope for my girls is, like, I instill that confidence in them from an early age. Like, you're not better than anybody, but you're just as smart and you deserve a spot at the table.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Yeah. And you don't have to follow the prescribed path. Like, there isn't one way. Like, it's a fingerprint. Right. We're all unique. And to me, there's no replicatable path that you can do like anybody else.

[Heart]

Right. There's also a benefit of not having, like, a proper business or design background. Like, I'm just. I'm doing a lot of this on intuition. And every time I don't follow my intuition or, you know, like, you hire an expensive consultant because, you know, that's what you should do.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Right.

[Heart]

Like, it doesn't.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Big mistake. Yeah. Yeah. We've. We've made some big wrong hires in that. And I was like, she has a doctorate, right. She's a master's.

[Heart]

Right.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I have nothing. Right. I have no degree.

[Heart]

I've had a few examples where just my alarm bells were going off and I didn't listen to them.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And.

[Heart]

But, you know, I have less lessons learned, so.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Lessons learned. And to me, like, those, as much as they suck, those are the most things that you get the most value. So I'm always trying to be like, when I'm in the middle of shit swimming, I'm like, there's a lesson here.

[Heart]

Exactly.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Let me decode it.

[Heart]

Right?

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And it helps me get out of my head of, like, why did this happen to me? What did I do wrong? Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, what's the lesson?

[Heart]

100%.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Heart]

I feel like a lot of, like, being a business owner, too. There's a delicate balance of letting things go and understanding that, like, rejection is redirection, but then also, like, fighting back and not accepting no for an answer. Like, for example, we've been trying to Elise in Charlotte, and we'll get really close, and then something will happen and it will fall through. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, that's the universe saying that's not the right store for us. So, like, let's find something else. And then my sister's like, no, I'm calling this person 10 times a day and not 10 times a day, you know, politely, but, like, having that resilience. Like, there's a delicate balance there.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

There's a huge delicate balance. Because you could say it's a sign, or you could be like, actually, no, it's not a sign. I just have to push through. And it's knowing when. Like, we had a store in San Francisco that didn't work because it was the complete wrong part of town for demo.

[Heart]

Where was it we were on?

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I don't even know the name of it. It was an area for, like, very wealthy, affluent women.

[Heart]

Okay.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Who buy Chanel. Let's just be honest, right? So I could say what was a sign. But no, we just. We, like, didn't do our proper business.

[Heart]

Yeah, no. Data is important.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I want to talk about style because you and I shared this last night. Like. Like, I don't think about my ear stack when I'm doing it. I just feel like it feels good. Or like, you came to dinner last night or how you're accessorized now. But people are always asking me, like, how do you do your ear stack? And I'm like, I don't know. I just.

[Heart]

Intuitive.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Intuitive?

[Heart]

Yeah. You just kind of throw it on.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So many people don't know how to do it or how to put things together. So we did a pre selection just for everyone listening. I went on the site and I picked out all my faves. It was very hard, and I would love for you to talk me through your methodology, even if it's intuitive, like, help. Help me. Help them.

[Heart]

Okay.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Somebody's on my lap.

[Heart]

Okay, great. So a good necklace stack is all about. I mean, it's honestly, it's following the same rules as, like, a great room with interior design or a great outfit. You want to be mixing and matching different textures, materials, color. I mean, if you're more minimal, then, you know, like, then don't do that. Don't do that. But if you want, like, a really cool stack, I would say just pulling back and having different materials, Color, texture, length. So let's start with, like, why don't you do the pearls? So right now, Rebecca has in front of her a strand of our. Our pearls, I call them. They've got this, like, kind of naughty potato pearl. They're very. They're just, like, bohemian and cool.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

They're not like your prissy upper side, granny grandmother's pearls. Which is why I like them, because I hate. That's why I don't wear pearls. It's because they're always like, so.

[Heart]

Well, this is the ultimate compliment because it really is like. Yeah, it's our cool girl pearl. And our clasp has a clip on it, so you can add a charm or not. So we've got that. So that's like high up on your neck. And then I would probably throw on like a longer necklace with that to counterbalance. And so you have our long link paperclip chain. And we've designed this as a lariat. I put the charms on the bottom. You got like the large matte stick, the horseshoe. But I like how that's going to draw the eye down. And then I want to throw on like some color for you because you have. You're mastering the mixed metal, which is very cool with your silver necklaces in there, but. And your tennis necklace.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I gotta take the silver one off, though, because then I feel like you like it.

[Heart]

I think it's cool. Like, I think it all. I think it goes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Okay.

[Heart]

So we just launched our turquoise tennis necklace. And I'm so obsessed with this.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

It's so good.

[Heart]

I wear it to pilates. I wear it to dinner. I love this necklace. The color is just so good. And it. It just really works on everybody. It works beautiful with metal as well. And so I. I think. Yeah. So you want to have a pop of color. I would even class that shorter. We. I make a tennis one. Yeah. So I'd. One reason why our tennis necklaces are really unique is that I. I add an extender on them. For some odd reason, a lot of tennis necklaces don't have extenders. But we're all about, like, having variability and modularity within the system. So, like, you can wear it at different lengths. Okay, then I would. Okay. Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Which color? Green or yellow?

[Heart]

I think that the chartreuse yellow would look really rad with the turquoise.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Okay.

[Heart]

Like, let's like lean in.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

We're leaning in.

[Heart]

I think it's cool. It's one of those colors that just kind of goes with everything. And then if you're feeling really rock and roll like I would. That's our lurex cord. We sell tens of thousands of these cords. People are obsessed with them. We have them in all sorts of colors. The gold lurex one, I love to wear this double wrapped. Like a choker. Yeah. You could even wear it as an anklet or a bracelet. That's what I would do.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Are you wearing it as a choker right now, or should I do it long?

[Heart]

Actually, maybe go super Long. I would go super long.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Okay, so I read somewhere and I don't know that they're the authority, but like minimalism and jewelry is over, which I'm happy about because now we can layer.

[Heart]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

If you follow shop with Caroline, she is never not minimalist.

[Heart]

I know.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And I'm like, I think she started it. She made it okay to like layer.

[Heart]

I'm so excited about this. The pendulum swinging back from quiet luxury. Quiet luxury is such a bummer to me. Like, let's have some fun. Let's not take everything too hard to

[Rebecca Minkoff]

like be quiet about the that you're proud to buy.

[Heart]

Yes, for sure. I wouldn't always say more is more. Like, I do think there is like a balance and that's where coming in with like the mixed materials and different lengths. And one of the things I'm so proud of, like the last evolution of the brand is like, we used to be just known for this loaded charm necklace look. But what I've been focusing on in the last year or two is slowly expanding our. I think of it as like a toolbox or a painter's like, palette. Like, how do we add pieces to the collection that enable women to have more self expression with the jewelry? So one day I want to wear color, one day I want to have like a more traditional pearl look. Like, it's all about just having this mixing and matching. One more thing I'm like so proud of is the modularity. Like, no one else is doing this in the industry in our category where it's all about being able to slide one charm off of one necklace, putting it on the pearls or sliding on a cord, taking things off. Like, today I want to channel abundance or letting go. Like, I'm going to slide that charm on today. Or like, you know, I'm going on a business trip. I'm in a to pack my Vesta case locket and put a note for my husband or my kids inside. Or a Xanax, you know, like for that scary flight.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So just take Melatonin, take some ashwagandha. Can we touch on the symbolism and meaning? You said last night that growing up, you grew up in a family that talked about spirituality and metaphysics a lot. And you can feel that. And this is not me sounding like an ad, but like, you can feel it in the product.

[Heart]

That's the nicest compliment.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Well, it's true. It's like, this looks like an old world piece that like my grandmother gave me me. I showed you what I'm melting down from my Grandmother. Because it's not looking like this.

[Heart]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And. And so talk to me about the meaning that you imbue in each piece.

[Heart]

I mean, like I said earlier, I've always been obsessed with manifestation, the power of our mindset, spirituality. I will read spiritual books like Eckhart Tolle or even like the Secret and thinking about the power of like the law of attraction. I'm coming out with a ma. Like a ma, A large magnet shaped charm in the fall with like stars on it. And it's all about the law of attraction. It's so cool. So it just comes from a very natural place of me being curious about the cosmos and our place in it, and humility and wanting to practice those beliefs and like wear them on my sleeve, but also not be too serious. Like there's always going to be a playfulness and a wink to what I'm doing. Like, we are not like getting too deep. No, like I don't, I don't want.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

No one has time for that.

[Heart]

Well, I mean, I think it's.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Heart]

Like I. We're not gonna have a charm that has like karma on it. Like I wanted to always have a little bit of like, woo, woo. But not overly serious.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Yeah. I will not name the brand, but I had something and when I got it, it was like a paragraph of like what it meant. And I'm like, that's so cool. But I just like it. And I like the 1, 2 word of what it meant, but not like,

[Heart]

yes, we can also assign your own meaning to things too.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Right?

[Heart]

So like I'll design a heart and be like, what does this mean? And I'm like, love. I don't know. Like sometimes I just want like a big heart, you know, but about leading with your heart. So I love looking at vintage jewelry too. So the perfect example is like the Vesta case that you're wearing. This is like a. I love antiquing. It's like my happy place. Like I put me in a junk store. I will spend hours like looking and I love collecting antiques, silver and also sterling silver jewelry. So I found these pieces that are called Vesta cases. And you know, in the 1800s, women of these of houses would wear them on their belts and they would keep matches inside. So it was a match, a match holder. Because they didn't have electricity back then, so they needed really easy access to matches and striking them to light candles and lanterns and whatnot. And so there's. You can find these antique Vesta cases. And I found one that had very similar look to the one you're wearing. Like, the vertical ribbing it had. It just looks so modern and timeless. I'm like, wait, this would be the most amazing charm. And so on one hand, I've got antique design, but then I want to infuse it with this cosmic, you know, mindfulness and spirituality. And so the message behind it is what lights you up. So instead of matches inside, like, carry inside the thing that makes you, you know, like, light your fire. So that could be, like a manifestation list. It could be notes from your kids. It could be a love note. It could be a little wish that you have for yourself, a mantra. And when we launched the Vesta cases, we have a few now. We put a little section in our stores, and they've been really popular with little scrolls and paper. So when people buy a Vesta case, we, like, send them over to the little scroll area, and they sit down and write a message. And it's been a big Valentine's Day hit or Mother's Day hit for us as well. Like, husbands will come in and. And have their kids write notes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I love that.

[Heart]

Yeah. So I love that you can.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

It's like. It's like a new take on a locket, you know, with, like. It holds more than a locket because that's just a picture.

[Heart]

It's just a picture, right?

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I love that. I think one of the most thoughtful gifts we got for our wedding was 2510 bills. So 250 rolled up with a message from the guy in each bill in this beautiful antique vintage box. And I was just like, well, a. I'm never going to spend the money because I'm not going to unroll it. But like that. He imbued the gift with something thoughtful. And the vestige reminds me of that. You get to wear it.

[Heart]

That's so thoughtful. See, it's like all of this magic and storytelling and meaning. I don't want it to be relegated to the fine jewelry world. And it's beautiful in the fine jewelry world. Listen, like, if I could have this in solid gold, I would. I think it's fabulous. But the reality is, is that it's not attainable, especially now with the cost of gold. Like, the necklaces I'm wearing would be, you know, up to $20,000. And so, like, I want to be able to give that meaning to people who aren't ready or don't really want to spend that money on solid gold. I remember I was scrolling Instagram and some jewelry influencer was, like, shitting on gold plated jewelry. And she's like, oh. Like, don't waste your money. Only buy solid gold. And I'm like, girl, it is so expensive, especially now. And, you know, it's actually made our business. It's been really challenged in the last few years because, like, we use real gold in our plating. We're not using a tone. Like, our costs have gone up a ton, and. And we constantly have conversations about, should we raise our prices? How do we do this? Like, it's been. It's been really tricky, but I really want to just keep offering that attainability. And it's still expensive, by the way. It's not a cheap purchase, but my goal is for you to have it for decades with proper care. And that's the thing that keeps me up at night and I like, tell other business owners, is like, you can put lipstick on a pig, but, like, at the end of the day, if you do not have a good product, you don't have a good business. And there's so much out there now with marketing and, you know, just, like, flashy, whatever. And to me, I'm just constantly thinking about product. Like, that's what keeps me up at night. Our sourcing, our supply chain, our quality. Like, if you don't have a good product, like, you don't have anything, but it means a slower build over time.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

We have to stop chasing the drugs of. It has to happen overnight.

[Heart]

Yeah. And, like, your bag, like, it was a perfect, beautiful design. Like, it took off for a reason, you know, not just because that was before, like, big influencer culture. So I just having, like, efficacy and integrity is, like, to me, like, the most. The. The number one thing that drives me at work.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And I think if someone is listening, like, to hold true to that, if that can be your, like, North Star throughout everything, it's so critical because you could give in. And we did, and we were. We paid for it to, like, different whims or maybe we change or maybe we alter. There's a creative way to do everything, and again, you might grow sl because of it.

[Heart]

I'm challenged with that right now because there is a lot of pressure for newness because it's a. It's a good way to grow. It's like one of the levers that you can push. But I just always have to go back to my filter of, like, soulful, timeless jewelry. So, like, okay, yeah, if we want to do a fun, kind of colorful earring for summer, like, how do I make sure that it ticks those boxes for us? That like, doesn't. Because I really don't want to just be producing things for the sake of making things. I really want to make sure that it lasts and has longevity in terms of, of style, but also durability.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

But I feel like any legacy jewelry brand that's out there today has done that. You know, like when you look at, I don't know, a David Yurman, like, they just stayed the course. They're like, you don't like silver and gold? Well, guess what? We're gonna keep making it.

[Heart]

No, that's really great advice. That's really great advice.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So where are your stores so people can go shop and tell us the website? Everywhere, all the places.

[Heart]

Our website is shop Hart H A R T for those A R T. It's my name. Shopheart.com, our Instagram is shopart. We're on TikTok. Our flagship is in Charleston, my hometown. We have a store in New York in Nolita, on Elizabeth Street. We have a store in Nashville on 12 south and we're opening one in Nantucket. And we also have three full time women who are doing trunk shows and they travel all over the country, everywhere from like Oklahoma City to LA to Detroit to Boston, like Charlotte, you name Atlanta. Like we are, we have a team that's like dedicated to bringing like our experience in person. You can build custom on our website. Website. We've spent a lot of time and money and headaches and tears on building this like custom interface where you can like, we call it the drag and drop. Or you like drag and drop your chain so you can make it. And everything is assembled in Charleston, like 10ft from my desk. It's wild. Wow. Yeah, it's all fulfilled out of our headquarters in downtown.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I think there's something beautiful about being where you are as a business owner in 10 years in and like you can still see the sausage being made because like for me it's been detached. It's like, you know, and I think to still know that the founder is that close to the product that's hitting my neck is really special.

[Heart]

We, it's so important. We've thought about separating the fulfillment, but right now it really works. And I walk past our customer service person every day, like hearing what people are complaining about, what they're happy about. And also like, it's really important to me that I visit my factories. So we just did a big trip to India and Thailand. Like they say that they've got all these, you know, eco friendly certifications and they treat people well. But Like, I was like, I need to see this in person. And it was so amazing to go there. And I plan to go back in the fall. And it's also fun. One of the guys from India is coming. Toronto, Charleston. I'm cooking him dinner at my house. It's a real partnership.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Heart]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

That makes it so special. And I think when you meet the people working in the factory, like, people like, oh, factory workers in China. No, I met them. I. I saw the play area where their kids are, like, you know, get to have daycare. And, like, when you see them and you see this human who's making it, you're even more connected to the mission and the product because you're like, wow, someone's making a living off of.

[Heart]

Right.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

What I'm doing, too.

[Heart]

Yes. And, yeah, I loved my time in China. It was such a. A cool experience. And.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Heart]

Anyway, yeah.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So I do want to touch on something we talked about last night is being the face of the brand.

[Heart]

Yes.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

And we are different acceptance points in that journey.

[Heart]

I know. Journey.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I'm all in the content, the design, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, hell, no. Don't want to do it. And I'm like, you're going to have to.

[Heart]

Gosh, I know. I hate to break it to you. No. My poor team. It's like whenever we talk about content and me, I like, I feel like I'm in a therapy session and they have so much whiplash where I'm like, all right, I want to do it. And I'm like, no. But I remember listening to an interview with the founder of Poppy, and she was explaining how, like, she was going on TikTok every day. She was explaining why her brand was acquired and how it was so successful. And she was like, TikTok. I was on TikTok every day. And she basically turned her life into a reality TV show and she's the star. And that's just, like, not at first, when I listened to that episode, I was like, well, fuck. Like, if this is my only way, I'm really kind of depressed about this because that's just not my nature. Like, I'm willing to do it, but it's like, I don't feel joy from it. Whenever I'm filming a ton of content. I don't often. Sometimes I do, but I don't often feel like, wow, that really filled me up. And it's about going back to authenticity. You have to, like, do what naturally feels good to you. So I did a lot of soul searching about this And I have to show up. I want to show up. I'm really proud to be the face and the name of my brand, but I don't want to. I was like, I'm not going on TikTok. I'm not dancing. I'm not doing, like, you know, outfit changes or whatever. But where I will show up is, like, what feels good to me, which is substack. I love writing. I've always been a decent writer. And then, like, on my Instagram, I just have very specific ways that I do it. And then also, like, being on podcasts or panels or showing up at store events. Like, I love connecting directly with customers, so I think I'm never going to be fully away from it. But I. What I have told my team is that I'm no longer the recurring star. I'm like an occasional cameo. And I think what it's going to do, though, is ultimately for stronger creative, at least for my business. And, like, you know, all right, we need to do a story about how to style chords. Well, like, heart's sitting right there. Like, let's hop her in front of the camera. And. But it just kind of. Sometimes it feels like, dance, monkey, dance. Like, anything else like that that's on me. Like, I have to be able to tell my team and show up and be like, you know what? That's not your fault. Like, I have to express how I want to show up. And so ever since I've put those boundaries and. But also, you can't just say, I don't want to do that and not offer something instead. And so I've been really building up my substack and showing up for other things that feel more authentic and also just fill up my cup and don't make me feel like, oh, my God,

[Rebecca Minkoff]

like, that was a lot mad respect. Because I think that your lane is correct. And then there's the lane that I'm in, that's also correct. But again, it goes back to our fingerprints, and our journey is going to be different. And that's what's beautiful about everyone's path is it's like, I love it, and I'm going to strive to achieve that.

[Heart]

But if that's what makes you happy, but if you, like, if it's working, then do it. It's just like, I know and I tell people, like, if you're founding a brand and you've got a lot of charisma and you love being on camera, you are in love luck. Because, like, basically, like, if you're a brand, 95 of what you're doing is content and 5% is product. I mean, that's hyperbole, but it's true. I mean, now brands have full on content studios. You know, we're in one today and if you were naturally good at that, then like you're, you're in luck because I think it demands a lot of, of you.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

So thank you.

[Heart]

Yeah, I could talk for days and days.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I know, I know. Unfortunately for my 80, I don't want to say add listeners, but for people listening, they're like, no, I love 35 minutes I'm making breakfast or I'm on my walk.

[Heart]

I love that yours are so short.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Heart]

And that you like, just get right to the star of the heart of it.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Thank you. I'm so excited. Thank you for having me excited.

[Heart]

It looks amazing.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

I can't wait to see what's next.

[Heart]

Thank you. I appreciate it. This was so fun.

[Rebecca Minkoff]

Thank you so much for watching today's episode. Before you head out, I wanted to invite you to our brand new YouTube channel for all things superwomen. It's a fresh space we're building out for 2020, 2026, packed with past episodes, future episodes, and some special new content we're cooking up. Just search SuperWoman Media on YouTube and subscribe so you're there for everything coming next. I will see you over there. Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you've enjoyed it, take a second to rate and review the show. Wherever you're tuning in, it really helps others find the podcast. You can follow me on Instagram, Rebecca Minkoff and at rmsuperwoman or for a slice into my personal life, Ecky Minkoff. And don't forget to check out my book, Fearless the New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage and Success. See you next week.

[Heart]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Heart]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Heart]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers.

[Heart]

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[Rebecca Minkoff]

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[Heart]

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