← Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff
Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff
Your Network Is Your Net Worth: How Lauren Kleinman Built a PR Empire
00:38:21
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- [00:00]
Rebecca Minkoff
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- [03:30]
Lauren Kleiman
I was like having random panic attacks which I'd never had in my life. I would be like driving down the 405 and I thought I'd had to pull over and that was really scary. Scary to feel like you're not in control of your body and like you don't know what's going on or what's happening.
- [03:44]
Rebecca Minkoff
Hey everyone. Welcome back to Superwomen. I'm here in my LA outpost. I'm so excited to be able to share with you some amazing guests that are LA only. Today's guest is Lauren Kleiman, the CEO and co founder of Dreamday as well as co founder of Quality Media. We go into what PR means in this modern day and age when it feels like nothing works. How to pull yourself out from the brink of being at the cliff of burnout and literally wanting to go over. And also how having a chip on your shoulder can lead to tremendous success. Take a listen.
- [04:15]
Lauren Kleiman
Part of the chip on the shoulder is perfectionism. Wanting to be good, wanting to do good. And I think in a way just like that pressure that we put on ourselves to be productive, to perform, to be quote unquote successful is definitely there.
- [04:30]
Rebecca Minkoff
Oftentimes the things that I've dreamt up that I want for the business I'm stressing myself out about and no one came to me and said we need to do this.
- [04:38]
Lauren Kleiman
And so I'm constantly assessing kind of what success means to me on a day to day basis, how do I want to feel and what actually makes me happy, not what makes everyone else happy, not what's the picture that I want to paint, but what actually like brings me joy.
- [04:59]
Rebecca Minkoff
I'm Rebecca Minkoff and this is Superwomen. Each week, inspiring women are interviewed to uncover the unexpected journeys, the challenges, and the unwavering spirit that makes them powerful. Get ready to be motivated by stories of resilience and discover the keys to unlocking your own potential. Lauren Kleiman, I'm so happy to welcome you and I'm such a fan of what you built with Dream Day and Quality Media. And we're going to get into that and personal and the, the nagging we go through about feeling like we're never doing enough.
- [05:35]
Lauren Kleiman
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I've been such a long time fan of yours, followed so much of what you've built with female founder collective and just so thrilled to be here. So you thank. Thank you.
- [05:43]
Rebecca Minkoff
So when you started out in the world like as a young woman, was PR something that you knew you wanted to go into or was that later in life decision?
- [05:53]
Lauren Kleiman
Absolutely not. If you could tell me now that it'd be running, you know, two agencies, One does PR affiliate and influencer with Dream Day and Quality Media focuses on whitelisting and paid social, paid search. I probably wouldn't believe you, but honestly, it kind of stems from my time at Ritual. So I was founding team VP of Marketing at Ritual. I was working with all of the top performance agencies, all the top PR agencies, and I was constantly feeling like they weren't modernized enough to kind of our needs. And I saw there was one day that just kind of hit me smack in the face of buzzfeed was firing a lot of their traditional editorial staff and hiring a lot on the commerce editorial side. And I saw that publishers were evolving to really encompass commerce and consumer press more. And that meant helping brands size up not only what is interesting and compelling about it editorially to editors, but also the business proposition for partnering with that brand from an affiliate perspective. None of our agencies really interwove those two in a synergistic way. And a lot of times what happens is brands will hire one agency for each and that means they end up competing with each other. And so it was kind of a natural evolution where I left Ritual. I started Consulting under everything, under marketing and growth. And one day like I just realized there's this white space where no one is offering what I then coined as performance pr.
- [07:16]
Rebecca Minkoff
That was my next question. Yeah, coin the term performance par. It's literally in bold here. Because I don't want you to get into what performance PR is like. There's so much like I hope it works from the old and, and what's old didn't work. I'm frustrated like daily I'm like, well that didn't work. What works? Yeah, like it feels like you're throwing a bunch of shit against the wall and you're just like, where do I spend my money and what moves the needle? So will you please define performance PR and help me. Yes, help me, help me. And others listening.
- [07:46]
Lauren Kleiman
I was feeling similarly, like it was just a lot of kind of spray and pray and not really a targeted approach. So what's interesting about this approach is PR used to be very much a black box, right. You'd pay a big monthly retainer. I was paying it myself. You'd get at the end of the month Here, here's a UVPM metric. We drove 5 billion impressions for the month.
- [08:05]
Rebecca Minkoff
Those impressions.
- [08:06]
Lauren Kleiman
And you're like, yes, but I know no one's actually reading through that entire piece or engaging with the brand from there. So what was interesting about kind of the inflection of the addition of affiliate over the last eight or so years is it no longer has to be that black box, at least on consumer press because Thought Leadership press is usually not using affiliate links. But on consumer press, which are your, you know, listicles or roundups or, or dedicated reviews, you can actually see this article or these publishers or these angles are actually performing best from a traffic and revenue standpoint. And how do we in a very targeted way really lean into those partnerships? Whether that's increasing affiliate commission rate or just even pitching those publishers more intentionally than maybe some others and really deriving like from the data what is resonating and why. And so that has been, you know, very interesting. And I think when we think about performance prior to it's really the intersection of pr, affiliate influencer marketing and as it's starting now, GEO and aeo, which are new services that we're offering because you absolutely cannot rank in LLMs like ChatGPT or Cloud or Perplexity if you don't have a very smart PR strategy. 70 to 80% of what is coming up in LLMs is being driven by traffic third party sources.
- [09:24]
Rebecca Minkoff
Right?
- [09:24]
Lauren Kleiman
So, so top tier publications Listicles roundups, the media that you're creating on Reddit, on YouTube, on TikTok, even what people are commenting on your ads. So there's no visibility really for your brand if you're not investing in pr, an affiliate, an influencer, you know, these days. But I think to your point, it's really about taking a targeted approach and making sure that the data is telling a story that you as a brand owner or operator can, can truly understand and that your team is not only gleaning those insights but being very thoughtful about how they're taking them in and refining your strategy from there.
- [10:00]
Rebecca Minkoff
And I think one thing that's tough with affiliates and this is again not subject to everybody cuz it's different. But like most of our publisher affiliates will pick whoever's the highest commission. So they'll link to Nordstrom, not me, they'll link to like out which is great but like doesn't help me really in the long run. How do you manage that with your clients?
- [10:21]
Lauren Kleiman
So ideally you would have someone on your behalf that's reaching out, that's understanding. On the first page of Google, what are the articles that are showing up? For example first page of Claude chatgpt, you know, they show the links now of where they're getting the data from. So we do what's called the SERP analysis which is looking at all the keywords that you're trying to rank for and then we will proactively include those keywords in our pitches but also retroactively in if you're not included or you're not in the number one spot or there is option to potentially shift from a retailer to a D2C link, we will retroactively go and try to negotiate that on your behalf. Again sizing up the business opportunity. So yes, Nordstrom the bag may be bigger because people are purchasing more things. But if you can come through with like a more compelling commission rate and showcase kind of that your site has really high click through rate and conversion rate. Sometimes they're willing to listen or at the very least they're sometimes willing to add another link. So you'll have your D2C link in addition to your retailer link. But yes, you know, if you put yourself in the publisher's seat, you're gonna go to where the money is.
- [11:27]
Rebecca Minkoff
Of course I do it on my personal link. Yeah, I'm like where's the money? Let me link there. Yeah. So for, for those listening because I have a lot of young, like I'm starting in my business or I'M one to three years old, listeners. It is so overwhelming. Like it used to be. Just like I send my product to the editor, we do the pitch, and now you just name things that someone has to do. Is there like a. Not a color by numbers or PR by numbers, but just like a. What is a snackable, like, realistic view for someone who maybe can't afford dream day that they could look at to sort of get their work or their consumer goods out there?
- [12:01]
Lauren Kleiman
I mean, now it's so different than when we started, right? Because everyone has access to Claude and ChatGPT. I think it's much easier these days to create a punchy pitch that clearly defines, you know, what the editor might be interested in about this product or brand. So I think I am pro. I. I think you have to have a, you know, very human story and human touch. But if you're just starting out, I would definitely lean into those resources. And we ourselves have built all these custom GPTs and custom cloud skills. We just hired an AI engineer who started on Monday. He's building all these crazy things for us. But I think if you're, you know, again, just starting out, it's really making sure that you have a strong pitch. Making sure that if you have a product that you're selling, you're sharing what the affiliate link is, that you're sharing good photography and links and essentially want to think, is this pitch serving up my story and brand on a silver platter for the editor and making their job as easy as possible. So it should be short, it should be concise, it should have any details that are needed, and if the editor has more questions, they will reach out to you. But refining the subject line, making sure, like I said, the affiliate link is in, the commission rate is there, and really just making their job as easy as possible. But Claude can also do a lot of the research for you. If you're just starting out on who you should be pitching, do not mass pitch. Make sure that you understand what an editor's beat is and that whatever you're pitching is very clearly kind of within their wheelhouse. Because the last thing you also want to do is burn bridges early in your career or have editors not take you seriously. If you're just kind of like, you know, spraying and praying, so to speak,
- [13:41]
Rebecca Minkoff
I will go as far as to say everything you said. Yes, and I wrote an editor's article for them and sent it to them, and that's what they ran with. I love that.
- [13:49]
Lauren Kleiman
I mean, so many times are the pieces that are for our clients are copied and pasted from our team's pitches directly.
- [13:56]
Rebecca Minkoff
So because these editors have like 20 jobs now for sure, and they're just like, oh, thank God someone did my work for me, because I'm drowning.
- [14:03]
Lauren Kleiman
Absolutely.
- [14:04]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yes.
- [14:04]
Lauren Kleiman
And that's how you forge the best relationships too. And at the end of the day, PR is all relationship driven.
- [14:09]
Rebecca Minkoff
It is 100%. And I. I don't know why. I feel like recently I just was reminded of that I had an event here and I got to see people I haven't seen in so long. And I was like, oh, this is makes such a difference. It's not just an inbox with a name.
- [14:21]
Lauren Kleiman
I just threw an event for a bunch of founders last week and I was like, oh my God, we need to be doing more of this. And I think even as, you know, work from home and AI becomes more prolific and. Or everyone is using it, I think people are craving more events, more experiential, more in real life.
- [14:38]
Rebecca Minkoff
I know, I just want to talk to someone. Not an LLM.
- [14:40]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah, exactly.
- [14:42]
Rebecca Minkoff
So you said something at the top of the interview which was, you have two companies. We also, before we started recording, we were talking about just the entrepreneurs. I'm going to call it the entrepreneur's curse of feeling like you have to work all the time.
- [14:54]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [14:55]
Rebecca Minkoff
Or fill your time that you have open with work.
- [14:58]
Lauren Kleiman
Yes.
- [14:59]
Rebecca Minkoff
So how have you built not only one, but now two companies? And talk to me about the curse.
- [15:04]
Lauren Kleiman
Yes, that's probably a long answer, but Quality Media started as a passion project and again was inspired by ritual. We essentially got an incredible, you know, incredible press that was affiliate driven. But then I was always frustrated by, once you get that incredible press, how do you really leverage it for the lifetime of the brand? And the way that you do that is by putting paid spend behind it, which is called whitelisting. So we did that with buzzfeed. We were the first to kind of pioneer that with buzzfeed. We had ad access to their account. We were running our own ads. It was like the Wild West. It was so much fun. It was also when it was not nearly as competitive on meta in terms of CPAs.
- [15:42]
Rebecca Minkoff
So for those listening, just to break it down, you. When you're whitelisting, you are paying to boost it, but it's. Buzzfeed is getting more visibility just so that.
- [15:51]
Lauren Kleiman
Correct. So you've probably seen it on your Instagram where influencers are promoting a product and it's very often times that the brand is actually putting their media dollars behind that influencer's handle. But it's the influencer that's promoting it. Because if you put yourself in the consumer's seat all the time, nine times out of 10, it's going to be way better for you to hear about a brand or product from a source that you trust than for the brand to say, we're so great. And this is why. So that's really what our model is kind of pinned on, is driving acquisition and performance for clients, that is through trusted third party sources, which is our owned publications, which include the Quality Edit, which we're most well known for. And then we have over 200 different creators in our roster that are also helping again share the story. We're doing all the briefing, editing, performance, creative, ad creative and media buying for those brands. But essentially Quality Media started, like I said, as a passion project. And we were honestly just trying to do whitelisting with Dream Day brands, but we couldn't find any publishers that knew how to do it. Well, aside from BuzzFeed. My contact had left BuzzFeed. I was like, on with Verizon Media. I'm like, this is what you should be doing. This is what whitelist listing is. I'll give you my money, I'll give you my clients money. Like, let's just do this. And then I'm like, wait, we should just create it ourself.
- [17:00]
Rebecca Minkoff
Wow.
- [17:01]
Lauren Kleiman
Like, we know exactly how to do it. And I knew that if you build a trusted publication and there wasn't a publication at the time that I myself wanted to read that was covering all the cool D2C brands, I kind of knew it would be successful. And our place was our first client and we from day one were successful with them. So we just kind of started building from there. And then there became this inflection point where it's like, oh God, this is like turning into another agency. My co founder Lee was like, I don't want to do an agency. Like, we're not going to build an agency. And then at a certain point we're like, guess, guess. We're building another agency. So I have two co founders on that business. And then I'm the sole founder of Dream Day. And to get back to your question, in terms of, you know, dividing my time, it's not easy. And it's taken, you know, seven years, multiple bouts of burnout to get to a place where I'm kind of comfortable with what my calendar looks like on a day to day basis. I've really prioritized myself and taking care of myself. And for me, that means playing tennis or pickleball or, you know, working out at least once a day. Getting outside. We talked about getting in the sun. Like I'm not meant to be behind a computer eight hours a day at a desk. And it's also not, you know, what I think I'm. I'm good at and what makes me special and valuable, even to what I've built.
- [18:15]
Rebecca Minkoff
Hey, everyone, sorry for the quick pause. I want to share something really exciting. Superwoman has really brand new YouTube channel. It's still under construction, but big things are coming in 2026. You'll find past episodes, new episodes, and some bonus content I cannot wait for you to see. Just search SuperWoman Media on YouTube and hit subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Okay, back to the pod. So in those moments of burnout, what did that feel like? And what did you have to do to get out of those moments? And you said several rounds of burnout.
- [18:47]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [18:47]
Rebecca Minkoff
So give me, like, the worst.
- [18:48]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah, I'll start with the worst, which I think was like the first where I was having random panic attacks, which I'd never had in my life. I would be like driving down the 405 and I thought I'd had to pull over and. And that was really scary. You know, it's scary to feel like you're not in control of your body and like you don't know what's going on or what's happening. And I've been reading this book called mind your body. I don't know if you've heard of it, but she talks about how with any sort of repressed emotions, it's like a beach ball underwater in a pool. Oh, eventually it's going to come up.
- [19:21]
Rebecca Minkoff
Okay.
- [19:21]
Lauren Kleiman
And so I think when I think about, you know, panic attacks, that's at least in my case when with the reflection and therapy and all the things I've done, like, there was just too much bubbling up. And also the words during that burnout time that kept coming into my mind where my cup overflow, I got feel like overflow. It's too much. And so I think very tactically, one thing I had to do was, like, come back into my body. For me, that meant strength training. I started like a true strength training protocol because I'm very research driven and I looked at what are the top ways to get rid of anxiety and it's strength training number one.
- [19:55]
Rebecca Minkoff
I know. Well, that's funny you say that because when I was on Housewives and I was at peak Anxiety. I asked my dad, who is an incredible, like, athlete. I was like, what do I do? He's like, start working out.
- [20:05]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah. Yeah.
- [20:06]
Rebecca Minkoff
And it made such a difference.
- [20:07]
Lauren Kleiman
It made such a difference. Right away I get chills talking about it. Isn't that so weird? Because what I read is like, it's gonna make your mind feel more resilient. It's not about your body. You're gonna feel more resilient starting your way in that day because you can do hard things. So that was one thing. I stopped working late at night. I realized I get way too activated when I'm, like, in front of my computer. I shut the laptop at 5. I didn't get back on after to tell you. Also what else I dealt with aside from the panic attacks. I had severe, like, insomnia for six months, which was also terrible. I wouldn't say anyone. And again, I was always like, a great sleeper. I'm like, where is this, like, all coming from? I think it was just like, you know, too much. It was just overload. And so I'm always really cognizant now of what are the warning signs that I get before that where I'm just putting too much on myself and then, like, I back away. I'll be like, okay, let's reschedule these things for the next week. Let's, you know, clean up my calendar, whatever, from there. But yeah, I would say strength training, sleep was a whole journey. I won't get into my whole protocol, but I did. That was a whole separate journey. And then I took up yoga training. I got this random text from my yoga studio that I frequented and loved. I went once a week on Sundays and it said, do you want to be a yoga teacher? And I thought, yes, I do.
- [21:20]
Rebecca Minkoff
Oh, my gosh.
- [21:22]
Lauren Kleiman
So I was running these two companies and I thought, could I, like, would that be possible?
- [21:27]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah.
- [21:27]
Lauren Kleiman
And I talked to my executive team and talked to my co founders. They're like, yeah, do it. It was like one week for four months. It was like a 200 hour training. And I did it in the middle of doing everything else and being a mom of two and all the things. And it was the best thing I ever did. And I had no intention to become a yoga teacher. Right. I just liked yoga. And I knew the mind body connection was so strong. And, yeah, when I came back, I was like, I really want to give this gift to everyone on my team if I can. So we enacted this better you benefit where we give a week off and $1,000 to anything that's going to benefit your spiritual, physical, mental state. And that's been kind of a really nice way to also, you know, pay it forward with our team.
- [22:08]
Rebecca Minkoff
During your panic attack on the 405, you said, yes. Like, some people get there and they stay at it. Yeah. Or they're like, I'm just gonna live with this anxiety.
- [22:16]
Lauren Kleiman
Oh, no.
- [22:17]
Rebecca Minkoff
How did you know how to, like, rip yourself out and almost, like, give yourself a slap to. Yeah. Get out of that.
- [22:23]
Lauren Kleiman
It wasn't an overnight thing, and I honestly was concerned for a long time. But what helps is I'm like a problem solver by nature. Even with insomnia, I was like, I'm figuring this shit out. I'm gonna read books, I'm gonna listen to podcasts, I'm gonna do the supplements, I'm gonna do this. That I learned that actually sometimes it's doing less that's most helpful. But I think with that specific instance, it's one right choice at a time. And at some point you wake up and you're like, oh, shit, I feel good. Yeah. Even outside of that, you know, even looking at who I am today and what my calendar looks like, I'm like, oh, I hired one executive team member at a time. I got an incredible ea. We're continuing to hire in these areas. And even if you don't see it in the moment or looking forward, looking back, you're like, I made a bunch of really good decisions that all of a sudden, I feel good. I like what my day looks like. I like how I'm living. I feel that I'm successful as my, you know, personal definitions of success and what those are.
- [23:29]
Rebecca Minkoff
I love that you said it's not just. It's not instant. Because I think everyone's looking for, like, okay, let me pop a pill and it'll go away. And I'm like, if you actually want to do the work, you don't get to pop the pill because you got to feel the things.
- [23:38]
Lauren Kleiman
Yes.
- [23:39]
Rebecca Minkoff
To make sure you're actually having them go away. So I love.
- [23:42]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah, look, I think some people, they need that because they can't bear it. But I was never at that point. There were moments where I was like, oh, it'd be so nice if this just went away. But I knew if I did that it would come up again because I wouldn't have gone deep enough to solve the. The actual underlying things.
- [24:01]
Rebecca Minkoff
Do you ever enact judgment, like, what if someone's like, I want to play video games for a week? Do you say, no way.
- [24:07]
Lauren Kleiman
It hasn't come up yet, but I don't know what we do in those situations. I'm sure they'd have a good reason. I feel like we've hired very well. We're like, no one's going to be too ridiculous gaming.
- [24:16]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah.
- [24:16]
Lauren Kleiman
Someone like got their. Helped get their MBA with it. Another person like did Pilates training. And so, so far I feel like everyone feels like it's a privilege and like, you know, they don't want to take advantage of it, hopefully.
- [24:28]
Rebecca Minkoff
So. I often think about the fact that when I was at peak, I have to work all the time. I talk about how I felt like going to the gym was a luxury. And I would sneak into the office to arrive at 9:30, which is like, who fucking cares if it was 10.
- [24:42]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [24:42]
Rebecca Minkoff
And I would walk in the back hallway so no one see me and think I was being decadent. Or if I got my nails done for a photo shoot, I would like try and do it on my own time so I didn't cut into work time. Like this sick mentality that once Covid sign of like made everyone stop. And certain things were just like, you're gonna work out in the middle of the day because you can or whatever. And then saying to myself, I'll never go back. It's easy to say when you're on the other side of it, but it's sort of like a bad relationship when you're in it. You cannot get out of it. So how did you get out of it and you're a mom? Because I think again to my listeners, like, they're a mom, they've started a business. If you don't get it done, no one's doing it for you. Like, my to do list now is endless. I have five categories on five different notepads.
- [25:25]
Lauren Kleiman
I do the same.
- [25:26]
Rebecca Minkoff
And I'm like, oh, just. I'm letting it slip. And I'm like, I'm sort of okay with it. But like, we're living on the edge of like, everything's going to fall apart, baby.
- [25:35]
Lauren Kleiman
I totally feel that. I just was traveling for two weeks back to back. And it wasn't the whole week, but it was like I had two different trips. One was with my best friend from childhood that I've been my best friend since I was one. Another was with my mom. I take her on an annual trip every year. They happen to be back to back and so many things are piling up. Emails, what Slack messages. You know, there's also so many mediums now. Instagram, text, all the things I'm like, oh my God. And then I had that moment like you had of like, it's all going to be okay and some shit is not going to get done. Yeah, that's probably going to be okay too.
- [26:06]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah.
- [26:06]
Lauren Kleiman
And also just the trust of. I've hired an amazing executive team. I have incredible people around me and really like, allowing them to do that work. It was actually like a great awakening for me because even though I was, you know, out two weeks, like back to back, I was like, it made me realize A, how great the team is, but just like, B, I think it's also good for them to feel empowered in that way. Not feel like they have to ask for permission on, you know, things that they already know. But I think to your point, similarly, like, I've gotten past the working out, but sometimes when I'm out playing tennis or something, I'll be like, oh, I wonder. I'll have this weird thought. I wonder if a client would be here and would see me here playing tennis. Like, you know, on the, in the morning. I'm like, what am I? There's nothing wrong with that.
- [26:53]
Rebecca Minkoff
Like, right?
- [26:54]
Lauren Kleiman
People take care of themselves so hard. Like.
- [26:57]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah. To. To get through that mindset. Yeah. And I wish I could figure out outside of COVID like, what else drove the final. Like, I mean, part of it for us was like, sold the company and so certain pressures. I was like, not on me anymore, bro. But I also just am like, is it age, you know, too?
- [27:14]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah, I think part of it is our programming. Even, you know, as high school students or as college, at least for me. It was like, the idea is you need to be the first one in and the last one to leave. Right. And even when I had a job and was not working for myself, sometimes I would leave at 5:30 and I would, you know, be like, shamed for it. And I was like, I just can't sit anymore. Like, I promise I'll come home and I'll work on my laptop or whatever. But yeah, I think it's like the constant hustle culture, the need and feeling that we constantly have to be productive. That's something that I deal with all the time. I have one app called Todoist and I priority rank 1, 2, 3, all of my priorities. But even after my whole day is done, after I've put the kids to sleep, then I'm like, okay, what else can I get done off this to do list? Right. It's like never ending. Someone just told me, oh, you should create a Ta da. List of all the things that you celebrate that you did that day, which is so nice in theory. I'm not sure I'm gonna do it.
- [28:09]
Rebecca Minkoff
I like that. I just am like if I have to. Like, a friend gave me a journal and she's like, just start journaling.
- [28:15]
Lauren Kleiman
And I was like, I'm gonna start journaling too.
- [28:16]
Rebecca Minkoff
I'm not going to.
- [28:18]
Lauren Kleiman
You're not?
- [28:19]
Rebecca Minkoff
I'm like, when am I gonna do that?
- [28:20]
Lauren Kleiman
I know what I mean. Like that's the whole. The book I read. Mind your body. She says journal 20 minutes in the morning. You have to create three lists. One is like childhood trauma. Two is the current stressors you have. And three is what innate things about your personality are contributing to your own current stress that you know of. And then you have to journal about each thing 20 minutes nonstop. And then you have to meditate 10 minutes a day for months on end.
- [28:42]
Rebecca Minkoff
Okay. I don't have that time in my life.
- [28:45]
Lauren Kleiman
One day.
- [28:45]
Rebecca Minkoff
One day. I do like, I do like the prompt of like, what are you doing to create your own stress? Because oftentimes the, the things that I've dreamt up that I want for the business I'm stressing myself out about. And no one came to me and said we need to do this. And I'm like, oh, 100. Why am I driving myself crazy?
- [29:03]
Lauren Kleiman
But that's also why you're the founder and CEO, right? It's like you're the visionary and no one's going to think of those things besides you.
- [29:09]
Rebecca Minkoff
I guess not.
- [29:10]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah, but.
- [29:11]
Rebecca Minkoff
But yes. Yesterday I was talking to my CEO and he was explaining why certain vendors didn't want to get on a platform. And I was like, you know what? I'm dropping it. Yeah, you guys suck. And I'm going to stop pushing because guess what? I don't fucking care anymore. And then I left the room. I like walked out of the hall.
- [29:27]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [29:28]
Rebecca Minkoff
So I think that I was stressing out about it.
- [29:30]
Lauren Kleiman
And I think to your point, it's a lot of the pressure that we put on ourselves and that's what makes us so successful. And yet it's also our worst enemy sometimes.
- [29:39]
Rebecca Minkoff
Right.
- [29:40]
Lauren Kleiman
It's a lot self inflicted. And you think I mean literally the name dream day. I thought, I'm gonna have my dream day every day. I'm gonna wake up, make a smoothie, go for a hike, work with a couple clients. It'll be like this perfect balance.
- [29:52]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah.
- [29:53]
Lauren Kleiman
I like haven't had my dream day in seven years, you know?
- [29:56]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah.
- [29:57]
Lauren Kleiman
But a Lot of that is because you don't realize, I think, all the micro decisions that we have to do every day and then just I'm always putting pressure on myself of what's the next thing to be done and how do we, you know, push forward to be successful. But I do think part of that is what makes you a successful founder and CEO.
- [30:16]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah. And if you're having fun, it's even harder because then you're like, I'm enjoying what I do.
- [30:20]
Lauren Kleiman
Totally. I enjoy it every day. I'm so excited to go to work.
- [30:32]
Rebecca Minkoff
You yourself have put your, you know, used to being behind the scenes, you know, pushing and promoting. Others are now moving to the forefront. I'm just curious, how important is it for the founder to now be visible?
- [30:44]
Lauren Kleiman
So important. Look, we work with a lot of brands where the founder does not want to be visible, and that's totally okay. I think if you don't want to be visible, it's worse if you try to force it.
- [30:54]
Rebecca Minkoff
Correct.
- [30:54]
Lauren Kleiman
Because then it just feels completely contrived and unauthentic. And no one is going to garner a following from unauthentic content. But I do think the founders that are willing to be visible have a huge leg up on the brands that won't or. Or can't because people are attracted to other people's stories. Even if you look at ritual, it was started with Kat, who couldn't find a prenatal vitamin that she herself wanted to use. That's a shared experience that so many mothers and expecting mothers go through. And so having that authenticity and authentic story that kind of bleeds through all areas of the brand, I think is so important. And just there's so much competition out there from a brand perspective now that having a strong founder story, and even if you look at Diana Cohen of Crown Affair, like, the way that she's built her personal brand, it all helps the brand of Crown Affair. And it's like building two separate audiences for the same, you know, one purpose. So very important.
- [31:55]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yes. Amen to that.
- [31:57]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [31:57]
Rebecca Minkoff
As much as it's like you're on even more, but, yes, it's very hard.
- [32:01]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [32:02]
Rebecca Minkoff
I was shooting content before you got here. Yeah. I might as well capture the outfit.
- [32:05]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah, absolutely. It's never ending.
- [32:08]
Rebecca Minkoff
Never ending. So again, before we started recording, you said that most successful entrepreneurs have a chip on their shoulder often from childhood. I think I know mine. What is yours and how has it, in a way, fueled you?
- [32:23]
Lauren Kleiman
I've been thinking about this a lot recently, and I don't know that I'm gonna be able to perfectly tie it in a bow. But I grew up with an alcoholic father. And I think in those kind of, you know, families, what I've learned is there was maybe always a feeling of unworthiness in some way, because I remember like writing notes to my dad and be like, pick me or the bottle. And when he wouldn't get better, I thought, I think subconsciously, like, these again, I'm 36 years old. These are things I'm still unwinding today. But subconsciously, there must have been something that thought I'm not worthy of him getting better. And so I think part of the chip on the shoulder is like perfectionism, wanting to be good, wanting to do good. And I think in a way, just like what we were talking about, that pressure that we put on ourselves to be productive, to perform, to be quote, unquote, successful is definitely there. And I think you brought this up actually earlier, so I'm glad we're touching on it. As I've gotten older, a lot of what I think happens, you know, in your late 30s, early 40s, what have you, is in many cases, you have gone to college, you've started your career, you've had the kids, gotten married, you're now taking like a moment to reflect on what you actually want in your life.
- [33:45]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah.
- [33:46]
Lauren Kleiman
And is the life that you're living because so many of those things are like just part of culture. Oh, you're gonna go to college, you're gonna get a house, you're gonna get married. Right. They're like, just what you should do.
- [33:56]
Rebecca Minkoff
Right.
- [33:56]
Lauren Kleiman
But then you're like, wait, am I, like, really happy? Is this the life that I want to be living? And so I'm constantly assessing kind of what success means to me.
- [34:05]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah.
- [34:05]
Lauren Kleiman
On a day to day basis, it's always changing. But there was this great podcast with Sahil Bloom and Emma Greed, where he talks about the several different types of wealth. And it's like your relationships, your actual financial wealth, your health, your family. And he says how his definition of wealth is on a Tuesday at 2pm Being able to jump in the pool with his son. And to do that, he has to be a good physical state. He has to have a good enough relationship with his son, he has to be wealthy enough to have a pool, and he has to have the freedom of his calendar to do that on a, you know, at 2:00pm and that really, like, resonated with me because I think sometimes our definitions of success can be a bit short sighted.
- [34:45]
Rebecca Minkoff
Only money.
- [34:45]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [34:46]
Rebecca Minkoff
Money and Instagram followers.
- [34:47]
Lauren Kleiman
Exactly. So I try to really come back to that question a lot. How do I want to feel and what actually makes me happy? Not what makes everyone else happy, not what's the picture that I want to paint or, you know, but what actually, like, brings me joy?
- [35:02]
Rebecca Minkoff
I think even the earlier if, if both of you and I had done that earlier, I think the decisions or where we'd be now from a place of not wealth or Instagram followers, but like personal wealth would be so much stronger. Because I think if you can, while you're following the plan, think about that as the priority. Like, I think back to the need to like work nights, work weekends, be on email all the time. You know, Like, I don't think that changed anything.
- [35:28]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [35:28]
Rebecca Minkoff
You know, in the long run for the brand.
- [35:31]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I don't know, I do feel some of. I was at Ritual, like I said, and then I was at Scopely, which was a really fast growing one of the largest now mobile gaming publishers in the world. But I was one of the first employees. And yeah, I do feel, you know, some of it matters to roll up your sleeves and be willing to teach yourself. I remember one of my jobs, I bought a Marketing for Dummies.
- [35:54]
Rebecca Minkoff
Oh, I love that.
- [35:55]
Lauren Kleiman
Because I hadn't done it before and I'm like, it's okay, I'll figure it out.
- [35:59]
Rebecca Minkoff
Oh my God. And look at you now. Jesus.
- [36:01]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:02]
Rebecca Minkoff
And I'm reading Investing for Dummies. I just interviewed her yesterday.
- [36:05]
Lauren Kleiman
I love that. Yeah, I think, you know, if there's two traits that I think drove me and that we look for in potential hires, it's a curiosity and always being willing to learn because having that growth mindset and how rapidly the industry and technology is shifting I think is incredibly important. We're always trying to be kind of on the cutting edge and, you know, most innovative and then being willing to like roll your sleeves up and. Yeah, I don't know if you feel this way, but I do think some of the hustle was good because it taught me work ethic.
- [36:38]
Rebecca Minkoff
Oh, yeah, I think the hustle is definitely needed. It's just. Yeah, the amount is pushed to, you know, like now I just see young people taking more time. I'm not sure what they're doing on the hotel rooftop at noon and I have a conference call, but I'm like, like, I kind of like hate you and love you at the same time because somehow you figured it out.
- [36:57]
Lauren Kleiman
It's definitely a different perspective with the younger generation.
- [37:00]
Rebecca Minkoff
So different.
- [37:01]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [37:01]
Rebecca Minkoff
But there's parts of it I love and hate. Like when, when the boundaries conversation happens, I hate it. But then when I see them lounging, I'm like, oh, you're doing something right.
- [37:08]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah. Want to be where you are.
- [37:10]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah, exactly.
- [37:11]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [37:12]
Rebecca Minkoff
So what is a piece of advice that you'd love to pass on that either you learned the hard way or someone gave to you that was definitely changing or you learned just through your own journey?
- [37:23]
Lauren Kleiman
One would be probably that your network is your net worth. Relationships are so important in everything that you're doing, especially in my case and having an agency. Everything is about the people, whether it's people that we're hiring or people that we are, you know, working with and founders. And as part of that, I think being kind to everyone you meet, it's like so trite, but I really feel like it's the golden rule and go so far and is so much more than a lot of people are, you know, thinking about. So just being genuinely kind. And I think maybe the last piece of advice is that balance is not a real thing and was invented a man.
- [38:06]
Rebecca Minkoff
I say that all the time. I say I feel like an angry man.
- [38:08]
Lauren Kleiman
I feel like I heard that from you. I think it was like, were you at the Inc 5000?
- [38:12]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yeah, that's when I said it.
- [38:13]
Lauren Kleiman
I'm pretty sure I heard it from you. And you said how it's invented by a man and.
- [38:17]
Rebecca Minkoff
Or an angry woman. It could be. Yes, Karen.
- [38:21]
Lauren Kleiman
And I think to draw from that at all times, something is going to be lacking and to be okay with that can be your personal life and how you're taking care of yourself or your family life or your professional life. There's no ideal balance. I think like that's such a fallacy. And to really like be okay with that and, and just do, do your best.
- [38:42]
Rebecca Minkoff
Yes.
- [38:42]
Lauren Kleiman
Red water feels good.
- [38:43]
Rebecca Minkoff
Red water and drown a little bit.
- [38:44]
Lauren Kleiman
Yeah.
- [38:45]
Rebecca Minkoff
Well, thank you for coming on today. Where can everyone now cost you to represent them? Thank you and all the, all the places.
- [38:51]
Lauren Kleiman
Thank you so much for having me. Loved our conversation. We're dreamday la qualitymedia.com Quality Media Agency on Instagram. Dream Dayla on Instagram as well. And my emails. Lauren, Dreamday la.
- [39:03]
Rebecca Minkoff
Thanks so much for watching today's episode. Before you head out, I want to invite you to my brand new YouTube channel for all things superwomen. It's a fresh space I'm building out for 2026, packed with past episodes, future episodes, and some special new content. We're cooking up. Just search SuperWoman Media on YouTube and subscribe so you're there for everything coming next. I'll see you over there. Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you've enjoyed it, take a second to rate and review the show wherever you're tuning in. It really helps others find the podcast. You can follow me on Instagram, Instagram, Rebecca Minkoff and mSuperwoman, or for a slice into my personal life, Ecky Minkoff. And don't forget to check out my book, Fearless the New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage, and Success. See you next week.