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- [00:00]
A
We have a saying in DHL that trade always finds its way like the water finds its way through the rivers. And you can see a lot of these things happening at different pace and different local situations. It's a complex region, but I think there's never a dull moment. You never know what's next. But overall, a lot of things moving in the right direction.
- [00:20]
B
Welcome to Supply Chain now the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership from across the globe, one conversation at a time. Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be. Scott Lewton and special guest co host Yasin Ahmed with you here on Supply Chain now. Welcome to today's show. Yasin, how we doing today?
- [00:47]
C
Doing great today, Scott. Really looking forward to today's conversation.
- [00:50]
B
I am too. You know, we've been working on this for quite some time. You know that I admire your leadership out there and I don't. I'm convinced you've got like several clones because you stay really busy, you seen. So it's great to carve out a little bit of time to interview another incredible supply chain leader, business leader out there making it happen. So today folks, as part of our ongoing Supply Chain Leadership Across Africa series, we welcome in an extraordinary supply chain leader that is on a mission to connect people, improve lives and really change the world for the better, all while leading an impressive supply chain organization that that's making it all happen. In today's conversation, we're going to be dialing it in on some of the powerful forces that are changing the business landscape, really across the Middle east and Africa. How organizations are finding new ways to optimize reliability and visibility across enterprise. Hey, when it comes to the proverbial next generation of supply chain leaders in Africa, what skills or mindsets will be critical to their success? All of this and much, much more. You seen this? Should be a terrific episode, huh?
- [01:56]
C
No, likewise, I think similar sentiments. We've been planning this for a very long time and I think the conversation today is going to hit home, especially from South Africa. You know, I'm really, really, really looking forward to today's conversation.
- [02:08]
B
Hey, we're supply chain nerds. We plan a lot, don't we? You seen, that's how it goes. So folks, stick around for a great conversation. It's going to offer up tons of actual insights by the truckload. So with all that said, I want to welcome in a wonderful guest joining us here today. Toby Meyer serves as CEO for Middle east and Africa with DHL Global Forwarding. Now in this role he leads a forwarding business with more than 3,000 highly skilled motivated freight forwarders in this high growth and innovative part of the world. Prior to this role Toby served in a variety of senior leadership roles in a variety of sectors including of course supply chain but also consulting, technology, automotive and food and beverage. As you'll see here today. Not only does Toby love to win but he really enjoys tackling big challenges and finding solutions that no one else can find. So let's welcome in Toby Meyer, CEO for Middle east and Africa with DHL Global Forwarding. Toby, how you doing today?
- [03:04]
A
Very good. Thanks very much for having me. Scott and Yasin, looking forward to an insightful conversation.
- [03:10]
B
We are too. And we're going to get to the insightful stuff in a minute Yasin and Toby. But first we're going to start with a fun warm up question. We're getting some tips folks in the green room pre show session on some outstanding television series and we're talking some movies and stuff and we found that Toby's got a, I think he called it a man dungeon. So I love that. So Toby, when you're not doing big things out there across global supply chain, what's some of the good television and cinema the movies that you might would recommend to us? What's your latest current favorite?
- [03:42]
A
Yeah, so I'm, I'm really a big consumer of all these new binge watch options. I think one I can really highly recommend, I really enjoyed watching a lot is called 000. I saw it on Amazon Prime. It's about a big shipment of trucks coming from Mexico organized by some American US based shippers ending up in Africa. And totally in the end finding its way to Italy was very special for me because certain areas, ports I know very well. I think it was fun watching, interesting to learn a bit about the world and how everything is interconnected. And if you haven't seen it yet it's Perhaps a hidden gem. 000.
- [04:24]
B
I wrote that down. I'm gonna add that to my list. And Yasin, have you checked out this 000 yet?
- [04:31]
C
I actually haven't Scott. But I know our prior conversation with Toby I was quite shocked to to hear that he's never watched Star wars or Lord of the Rings. So I'm definitely calling him out on that one. And we definitely have to set up another session where we go through all of those trilogies.
- [04:47]
B
Hey, I'm with you but you know I got to give Toby a pass and anyone out there that hasn't because the Star wars universe has gotten very complex with the 3,000 sequels. I've got to have my son explain the 5 million plot lines and characters. So I can understand that. All right, you seen really quick, what's one of your current favorites? When you look at Amazon or you look at television streaming movies, you name it.
- [05:12]
C
I think straight or what? Something that comes straight to mind is, is Landman. It's about like an oil kind of baron, talking about all of the different kind of complexities that they face in their daily operations. Yeah, that's a show that I've really enjoyed recently.
- [05:27]
B
Me too. You seen. And a little, little tidbit there. Toby and Yasine. Jason Hoke is one of our advisors and shareholders here at Supply Chain now. And he was the executive producer of the podcast that Landman was based on. So he's gone and met Billy Bob Thorne and been at the premieres and stuff. I'm so jealous. I just want to ride Jason's coattails a while. But that's really good stuff. The Landman, of course, Billy Bob's character is, is good. Okay, so Toby and Yasine, we got a lot of stuff to get down here today, a lot of stuff to learn from. You know, it's always the case in the wild wide world of global supply chain. But Toby, I want to level set first if you would tell us initially about your path into the outstanding, the awesome world of supply chain and logistics.
- [06:14]
A
Yeah, I think it's a bit by accident, to be totally honest. So it's a bit interesting because when I was young and finishing my school in Germany, I was thinking of what to study and logistics always interested me. But I did end up studying general economics at university, started working in finance and consulting, you mentioned it, and in foods in Switzerland. And I actually met my wife, interestingly enough, on the day she returned from a six month stint in a university in Cape Town. We got a baby, we got a second baby, we decided to marry. And she was from Bonn. Now Bonn is the old capital of Germany. You have two big corporates there. One is called Deutsche Telekom, I think T Mobile, you guys know very well in the us. And the other big one is Deutsche Post dhl. Now I had already worked for T Mobile, so I wanted to try out the other company which was Deutsche Post DHL. That's how I started there. It was almost 18 years ago now. And then I made my way through the different parts of the organization, worked a lot in the UK, finally moved to Johannesburg 10 years ago. And then after one year in Johannesburg, was asked to move to Dubai and here I am. So a bit by accident, but I have to be honest, I love it every day. It's an amazing part of the whole, I think ecosystems we have and I have been in places in the last 10 years. If you would have told me 15 years ago that I would ever be in these places, I would have told you. Totally crazy. So the stuff you can see and experience is really one in a kind. And I think that's one of the beauties in our industry.
- [07:48]
B
Toby, what a wonderful start, our conversation. And you seen as he was explaining how he kind of found himself into this incredible industry and of course some of those family bonds there, it brought to my mind how it's important to be intentional and deliberate.
- [08:05]
C
Right?
- [08:05]
B
It's really important. However, on the other hand, the power of serendipity and kind of creating our own luck is a wonderful, wonderful thing as well.
- [08:13]
C
Huh? It's the classic stumbling into supply chain with professionals in the industry. Similar sentiments, you know, in my career as well. Kind of started off as a sports management major and then stumbled into into supply chain. But it's great to hear that, you know, Toby had and did spend some time in, in South Africa and our.
- [08:33]
B
Industry is better off due to all the wonderful folks that stumble into global supply chain. So. And you know what a good thing is? We're getting more and more intentional about recruiting the top talent as well. So that's been really cool, especially in recent years. Okay. So Toby, as a follow up, a lot of folks are going to make assumptions about what various CEOs do with their time and do in their role. But if you would tell us about your role as CEO for Middle east and Africa with DHL Global Forwarding, tell us more.
- [09:03]
A
Well, I spent too much time in planes because the region is pretty big and people tend to underestimate how long it takes you to travel around. So I mean, flight from here to cape town is 10 hours, to Morocco is eight hours. That's all part of the region, plus being at the airport, plus clearing customs, plus immigration. So it is not always very, very easy to get around. We operate ourselves in 26 countries, so colleagues want to see your face, customers want to interact with you. So a lot of time is spent on the road, which I think is really important. Secondly, a lot of time is then spent with engaging with the own team because it's the core of what we do is having the best people, empowering them, giving them all the tools they need. To be successful and then spending a lot of time with meeting partners, customers, suppliers. End of the day we orchestrate all the players in the logistic fields, all the asset owners and bring all the people together to create win win situations. So traveling a lot of interactions, that's why they need attention on the weekends or in their vacations to calm down a little bit.
- [10:08]
B
Hey, I get that completely. And Yasin, I tell you, he travels almost as much as you do, my friend. But 26 countries, I love that sentiment about being present and in person with both team members and customers and probably suppliers in the whole ecosystem. I love that emphasis and that importance placed on that. What you hear there, Yasin, I think.
- [10:30]
C
To that point about Toby's travels, I'm an avid, you know, use of LinkedIn and every single week Toby is in a new location. So I think always trying to see if he's, you know, traveling all around the continent.
- [10:42]
B
26 countries, that's a big region. And on top of that, just the sheer size, but everything that's going on in probably every single one of those 26 countries, which is just remarkable. You know, you and I have talked about this before on shows and in between the shows about the innovation we're seeing across the entire continent of Africa. It's, it's just, it's remarkable. Okay, so Yasin, you're going to drive this next section with Toby talking about some of their logistics and their investment priorities. So I'm going to pass baton. I'm looking forward to learning to hear a lot more from Toby.
- [11:16]
C
No, I really appreciate that. So I think, Toby, you mentioned 26 countries. What do you see as two to three forces that are currently reshaping trade and logistics in the region right now?
- [11:30]
A
I think there is a lot of things happening. I think first of all, of course we have president in the US who has imposed tariffs. One immediate consequence of this change is that trade patterns have shifted. Exports from China, which went to the US in the past, now find their way into the Middle east and Africa. I think that's definitely a shift we can see because the goods are there and they have to be sold so they will find a way to other new consumers. We are currently seeing a lot of investments taking place, especially in the Middle East. I think think pretty much every country in the GCC is trying to establish them as the logistics hub. Challenging, I think the leading position of the uae, which is a big, big theme. And of course we all working on bcps, we also see production shifts. So I think something very interesting for the people in the region is that, you know, production came to Turkey. Now we see a shift to places like Egypt or Morocco happening at rapid pace. Challenge with the rest of Africa is that the infrastructure and the availability of electricity is not at the levels required to really have big scale industrial production taking place at this stage. Very interestingly, for example, I learned Ethiopia. Ethiopia have established certain areas, I think five special industrial zones targeting to produce textiles for the American market. Now with the new tariffs and the exemption which used to be in place revoked, that has now converted into producing solar panels. So suddenly the guys in Ethiopia not only export coffee but also a lot of solar panels. We have a saying in DHL that trade always finds its way like the water finds its way through the rivers. And you can see a lot of these things happening at different pace and different local situations. It's a complex region, but I think there's never a dull moment. You never know what's next. But overall a lot of things moving in the right direction.
- [13:23]
C
A couple comments there for and you know, like some feedback for Scots and I think, you know, the continent of Africa. Scott, you visited South Africa a couple of times. The workforce is both resilient but also extremely adaptable to these constantly changing forces.
- [13:39]
B
Massive opportunities with the brilliant workforce and all the people and all the interest in global supply chain and beyond, there's a massive opportunity here. And that's one of the reasons that we're seeing innovation unlocked in so many countries across Africa. And one of the quick comment on what he said, we got to call this out. We're going to steal this from you, Toby. We may owe you some licenses or whatever, but trade will always find a way. You seen that is a beautiful mantra and I look at the really the positive spin on that because you know, when we can lock in some of the gains we make in moving the world forward and leaving no one behind and we can find a business case for it, we can lock those gains in and then build on top of them. So we got our first T shirt is from Toby. Trade will always find a way.
- [14:26]
A
Yeah, I think there's one. One other famous saying which I like to use a lot and which actually connects very well with me personally. But I like to work for dhl. It's a French philosopher by the name of Frederic Basita who in the middle of the 19th century said if goods don't cross borders, soldiers will. For me, it's always about trade, bringing prosperity to people and making this planet a better place for everyone and having us peaceful Work together. I know in these times it's a bit tricky, but I think trade finds its way and trade really makes this world a better place.
- [14:59]
B
You seen that is all kidding aside, that's really important and really speaks to the role, the incredible role and consequential role that global supply chain plays as a force for good in so many different ways. But your thoughts and we'll, we'll move forward. Toby.
- [15:13]
C
I completely agree with that, Scott and I think with this idea of being a force for good, I know that Toby mentioned these big investments that are currently occurring in, in the Middle east and in Africa. Which brings me to my next question, which is DHL has publicly shared a $300 million investment into the continent. Toby, at a high level, what is the investment meant to enable and what principles guide where it's deployed?
- [15:41]
A
So one of the big sectors, as an example where we want to invest a lot of money is building infrastructure so we can have reliable supply chain for life science, healthcare, meaning we can ensure we bring medical goods, medicines, vaccinations and that sort of goods to 1.5 billion people living across Africa today. The infrastructure, as you know, Yasin, is good in selected places. Yeah. In Johannesburg you'll find top notch facilities, no problem. In Nairobi you might find, I would say, not the same level, but still good. If you then go to Entebbe, Uganda, it might already look very, very different. And again the people across, that's 1.5 billion and is fast growing, they all need access to affordable and safe and reliable medicines. And I think that's something for us where we see an opportunity because we have all the connections we have via our express colleagues, the network bringing in planes and bringing in the goods, but they need to not just reach the airport, they need to reach the end consumer in a proper way. So that's one of the big topics we want to do. The 300 million we will invest is a minimum amount we want to invest until 2030. Of course, if we find more opportunity, we'll invest more. But I think the investment needed overall in Africa will be in the billions, if not trillions. It's any aspect of the supply chain, the roads, the ports, but also very importantly, regulation should be simplified and improved because we see too many goods and containers stuck in customs for too long time, which makes the whole supply chain super inefficient.
- [17:18]
C
I think that's incredible and I mean, I just wanted to double click and take a deep dive on the thought process behind the life science decision. Was there particular reasoning to focus on life sciences.
- [17:30]
A
Well, it's part of our strategy 2030. So one of the sectors we have identified as a growth sector because of the, you know, in Europe you have an aging population. In this part of the world you have a fast growing population. It's really that we believe life science, healthcare need more bespoke, more dedicated solution which really provide end to end reliable solutions, connecting the producers with the end consumers wherever they may be. So that's just part of one of the strategic pillars. I think some of our competitors doing equal stuff. There is demand for this sector to get up a notch then that's why we're doing it.
- [18:04]
C
That's fantastic. And I think, you know, talking about solving these issues for businesses on the continent, what do you see as some of the most important problems worth solving for African businesses and exporters over the next couple of years?
- [18:18]
A
I mean I mentioned it earlier and again it's one of the sectors we focus on is energy. Right. We call it new energy. But there is a very clear correlation between the cost of energy and the prosperity in the country. Reliable access to cheap energy will drive prosperity in any country in the world and has been driving it. And that is something lacking. I mean, Justine, you will know coming from South Africa, when I was there 10 years ago, we had load shedding, which pretty much means we had three times a week, four hours where there was simply no electricity in your neighborhood. And some had a generator, some didn't, but you had to manage. Not having this reliable source of enough, sufficient energy is really a challenge thinking ahead of the next big wave. So I think everybody talks about data centers and AI. You know, data centers are needed. It's the basic for deploying AI. There is a huge demand of energy and if you don't have the energy, you will not have the data centers and you will miss out on the opportunity coming with AI. So I think these are two really core basics which are needed in Africa to create an even playing field. And then if you look at the whole supply chain, still find it mindboggling. You go to places in Africa and you will find the American products, but at 3, 4, 5, 6 times the prices, you'll find them in the US and part of that is because it's incredibly expensive to get them delivered. So the cost per km basis to deliver goods is a multiple of that what it would be in Europe. The lowest disposable income have to pay the highest supply chain cost, which is I think somehow ironic. It's not good.
- [19:54]
B
Yeah, you've seen a Lot of good stuff there from Toby and I love your questions. A couple quick comments before we move forward and love to get you to respond and get your thoughts to where you seem. Infrastructure. Every region in the entire world has massive infrastructure changes based largely on population changes or the velocity of change in business and consumer needs. Business needs or whatever. We touched a couple times on energy, right. And I'm glad you mentioned load shedding, Toby, because we've been doing a series a long time and some of our favorite folks in South Africa a couple years ago, you know, we had to time it certain at certain times when they had their generators, you know, and, and inevitably they would drop out from time to time. It seems like it's gotten better though. Seems like it's gotten better, but in the greater sense. Get this folks, I read a stat the other day that if you think of all the electricity that the country of Japan uses in a year, right over the next several years because of the changes in global needs, it's basically like another Japan and all the energy demand coming on to the current global infrastructure. That is remarkable. And if we want to really realize the art of the possible with AI and many other, many, many other innovative technologies, we're going to have to address that problem everywhere. You seen? When I think of infrastructure, I think very holistically we touched on roads, touched on energy. We also stop the digital divide we're trying to bridge as well. So we got to eat our Wheaties for breakfast every morning because we got a lot of work to do in that regard. Your quick response here, you seen? No.
- [21:29]
C
Likewise, I think starting here in the US interacting with a lot of my peers, I think one of the reasons why we want to make this podcast happen is to really deep dive into what the realities of operating on the continent. And I think Toby brought forward this infrastructure gap because it is prevalent and it is preventing the acceleration of business on the continent. When people talk about the implementation and the construction of large scale data centers, there's no energy. And that's the infrastructure that we have to develop right now to deploy those data centers to make it happen.
- [22:03]
A
Yes.
- [22:04]
B
And maybe trade, going back to that mantra Toby mentioned, trade will help us find a way. And really quick aside, Yasine has the, it seems like to me, in my outside perspective looking in that the power, reliable power access to that has gotten a little bit better in recent years in South Africa. You got a family there. You seeing that, Yasine?
- [22:26]
C
Yeah, I think it's been an incredible turnaround. I think with the New government of national unity. There's definitely this shared sentiment of getting the country back on track with regards to its utilities. I think there's still a long way to go, but they definitely making a fantastic effort.
- [22:41]
B
Outstanding. We gotta celebrate every inch and foot and step forward.
- [22:46]
A
Okay.
- [22:47]
B
So Toby, I want to kind of broaden out our conversation a little bit. You were talking a minute, minute ago about problems worth solving and there's no shortage of them. But there's also some top priorities, right. That we, that we all know and probably talk about in our sleep. Some of those top priorities of course is improving reliability, resilience, visibility across our global supply chains. Right. And our ecosystems, but also doing all of that while reducing emissions and logistics.
- [23:14]
C
Right.
- [23:15]
B
So I want to get you to weigh in, Toby. In your view, what are, what are some levers that you're seeing supply chain leaders and organizations pull to address those priorities? And then in a minute I'd love to get some examples of what DHL is doing, but start with those levers that you're seeing out there first.
- [23:31]
A
I think one of the things is getting better organized. I think using available infrastructure, as simple as it may sound. So you know there's still a lot of trucks driving around empty to pick up something or to go back for making a delivery. So whatever we have in terms of capacity that's better, use them all together. I think that's in the perfect sense. Whatever we do, let's try to reduce the emissions. So if you need to drive with a truck from A to B, ensure it burns as less fuel as possible by planning in the best possible way. A lot of, lot of goes down to planning in supply chain and properly coordinating would all be so simple if all the things would fall in the right row all the time, which typically they don't, as we all know. Then there is of course alternative fuels. So there is biofuels, you have sustainable aviation fuels helping us reduce. Then whatever emissions, you still have solar and wind energy to help fuel energy or battery based vehicles, the EVs for example. I think small trucks, very efficient in the meantime, very competitive. Even here in the Middle east. Big trucks still challenging and difficult. And I don't think there is as clear path as an example. So there's a lot of things we are working on. Good thing is it's high on our agenda. It's one of the four strategic pillars in our company. So we have a lot of experience. Perhaps the last one to give you a light gimmick. The express colleagues have something called alisi And Alisi is a electric plane. So it's supposed to go live next two years and it will fly I think 400km in the US bringing urgent courier shipments, couple of tons payload. Again it will not replace the triple 7s we have on the air today. But it's the first step into a different approach. Let's see how that will go.
- [25:21]
B
Love those. As a big aviation nerd I can't wait to learn more about that. And speaking of scene I'm seeing that blimps are back. Folks are experimenting with new generation of blimps. We're seeing perhaps we've talked a lot about energy here today. We're talking about reduced emissions while protecting performance. Nuclear power moving into a new chapter. It's interesting to watch the small modular reactors which I'm not a nuclear engineer but how the new applications for those across industry. But your thoughts Yasim, when you heard some of the levers that Toby sees organizations pulling on to protect these performance gains while doing right by our planet.
- [26:01]
C
I think the drive and the intentionality from these organizations to really kind of explore these innovative solutions to combat climate change and to combat their emissions I think is very inspiring and similar sentiments on your aircraft, your passion for aircraft. I'm really interested to see this LSE project come to life in two years.
- [26:21]
B
I am too. I am too. I'll have Toby back and give us an update. And we were talking about Artemis 2 in the pre show. This is a fascinating time folks. I know the launch window would just move back to March but when you're trying to do human firsts you're going to have some setbacks and challenges. So hey really quick Toby, I want to ask you before I get if there's any of the examples you want to share or DHL is moving the needle here that you're really proud of but with that reduced reduction of emissions that top priority is there any play on that 000 show that you watch? Do they address. Do they address any emissions?
- [26:58]
A
How should I say this now? I think the Latin American entrepreneurs they didn't care so much about the Go Cream profile. They have nothing to do with the sustainability aspect.
- [27:10]
B
All right. Maybe next season. Next season. Right. All right. So I love the plane. And Toby, what's the name of that plane? The electric plane again?
- [27:16]
A
Alici.
- [27:17]
B
Alisi. Okay.
- [27:18]
C
Love it.
- [27:19]
B
I can't wait to have you back. We'll get an update on that. Are there any other. When you think of again reliability, visibility, resilience, reducing emissions. You've talked about the Immense priority y' all put on investing into your ecosystem and you're making clearly some great investments in infrastructure. Anything else that you want to bring to the table? In terms of an example where DHL has moved the needle in these other areas we were just talking about, I.
- [27:43]
A
Can give you two concrete examples. So I think it's 10 plus years ago. We were looking for our post business in Germany, which is 150,000 plus people. So the post for Germany, we were looking for electric delivery vehicles and we couldn't find and we went to the big manufacturers in Germany. As you know, in automotive, we have some good names, but none were really kind of interested in offering us solutions. So in the end we bought a startup and we built more than 20,000 of these vehicles ourselves. And they are on the street. So our whole fleet, 60% of our fleet, I think by 2030 should be electrical for the smaller vehicles. Secondly, we are the number one airline and we have a big airline in express, so we operate more than 300 planes. People often don't connected with DHL because for regulatory reasons we have different airlines across the planet for landing rights and so forth. But we are the biggest consumer and customers of sustainable aviation fuels. So we as people carrying urgent courier shipment and cargo, actually invest more money in sustainable aviation fuel than those airlines carrying real passengers. I found that quite remarkable. And we all are incentivized. So myself included, the board, our bonus depend to a certain extent on how well we do with what we call active decarbonization. So it's not just some nice speeches and some nice window dressing. We really seriously have to work on that with our customers, with our suppliers in the whole ecosystem to be successful. And I can tell you it's very close to the heart of the board, very close to the heart of our group CEO. And it's just part of making this planet a better place for everyone.
- [29:24]
B
You seen? I had no idea. A fleet of 300 planes, I'm gonna have to learn dive more into much more into DHL's air fleet. But kidding aside, what I loved it Toby just shared is when you tie compensation, executive leadership compensation, to a decarbonization and other priorities, we're gonna find a way to move the needle. Because if trade always finds a way, and it does, as Toby said, compensation and what we tie compensation to also always finds a way. You've seen react to what we just heard there from Toby.
- [29:54]
C
I'm actually didn't know any of those statistics as well. I think the complexity behind the procurement of those Sustainable air fuels is actually quite, is quite remarkable. But I agree with you, this needs to be top of mind for organizations and implementing these kind of compensation metrics into, into CO2 emissions is very important.
- [30:16]
B
No doubt. You seen, I think, I think you're in the middle of New York City today and I think we're, our wonderful police officers are going somewhere. So, hey, that's what happens. We keep it real around here. All right, so you've seen in Toby. Toby, I want to go, I'm go next and talk talent a minute. You know, that's come up a couple times in this conversation here today. I want to talk about the intersection of talent and leadership, right? It's a very critical intersection. So when you think about Toby, the next generation of supply chain leaders in Africa, you know, who are the next Toby's and Yasins out there, right? What skills, mindsets or tools in your tool belt you think would be critical to fueling their success? What comes to mind?
- [30:58]
A
Toby, that's a very good question. And it's actually one of the biggest challenge, I would say because reality is a lot of really good talents from Africa, if they are really talented, they make their ways into Europe, into the US into other places like the Middle east, which means a constant track of talents that is not easy to compensate what is really critical. You have to be really resilient, you have to have ownership, but at the same time you need to be humble and be able to connect to the people on the crowd. I still see in Africa, unfortunately, cases where people are working hard to get into a job but just for the sake of being in the job and then leaning back. And I'm now a director of XYZ and I want to take advantage of my position, position which is not great. I think it should be. You want to get into the role so you can make a difference, so you can help your company, you can help your community, you can help your country to be a better place. So I think there is still a lot of, a lot of opportunity there. Sometimes I would say the good news is the access to education has changed a lot. So with YouTube and the whole revolution of the Internet, I think 20, 30 years ago there was a lot of talk of how do we bring education to the continent. I think it's available for those who want to consume. But again, it comes down to a lot of personal how much people take ownership for their own education, how much interest they have, how curious they are, how they can also connect with other people and other cultures. I think it's very important, so it is not trivial. I think we also sometimes have the realities of people being part of communities which have expectations, can give you very simple examples. Scott. So when I moved from Germany to South Africa, being German, German, we love the rules, so we will always stick to any rule and regulation you could think of and would never try to not be compliant. So I arrived in South Africa with my three kids back then, and my boss asked me whether I organized a domestic worker. Yasin, it's called. Correctly, I hope. And I didn't do it because I didn't know the regulation. I didn't want to make any mistake. I'm on a visa as a foreign foreigner, so I don't want to risk my status in the country. So didn't do it. My CEO said, so hang on, you didn't. You didn't get a domestic worker? I was like, yeah, because I'm afraid of doing something wrong. And he looked at me and said, bro, the only reason to get in trouble is if you don't hire a domestic worker because you're not providing work to somebody, because you're actually feeding a family with it. So it was totally a different concept for me. And I think that's such as a Westerner, as a European coming to the African community, you know, taking care of each other was just something very different. Right. So in Africa, there's a very famous proverb which is, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And I think that's just something I had to learn. And it can be a real asset, but it can sometimes, in a. In a global world which is perhaps sometimes dominated by the west, can be a challenge because there's a different perception of certain situations.
- [33:52]
B
Toby, we could have a whole podcast series based on that last response. There's so much good stuff there. You seen? I'm gonna get you to comment on one of your favorite parts of his response. I've got a couple, and then I'm gonna double down. You just gave us some great leadership advice to everybody, to all of us here. But I'm gonna double down on one more piece of leadership advice you would offer to early career professionals. But first, Yasine, what'd you hear there?
- [34:17]
C
I think that there's this fine balance between the new implementations of technology, this rapid acceleration of AI and bringing skills and talent on board to be able to kind of cope with this new technology that's coming along the way. But I think, Toby, you really hit home with this kind of perception that foreigners or people from Europe, from the us, from Asia have when it comes to getting involved in the continent. And that is really trying to bring people along the way and creating this, this mass employment. But I think that companies like DHL are doing a fantastic job by being intentional about the way that they are upskilling and getting the talent in the younger kind of demographics involved in supply chain.
- [35:03]
B
Well said. You've seen a couple of my favorite things that Toby just shared and they're very, very connected. Made a big point. Taking care of each other. That means a lot of different things to a lot of different folks. Whether it is providing opportunities and support, financial support like he it was in his anecdote there or in this golden age of supply chain tech, making sure your people and your team members have the skills they need to advance or at least have the opportunity to raise their hand and volunteer to learn the skills. Because there's so many opportunities, right? So many opportunities. Staying connected to people on the ground. I love that anyone's ever watched or listened to one of our shows. We talk a lot about going to the Gemba, right? And that phrase has been around for a long, long time. But it is a timeless, universal truth that the true experts are the people there on the line or in the facilities making it happen. And we have so much to learn from those very talented people. So that was, that was excellent perspective as well. Okay, so Toby, you've already given that was all this has been leadership advice. But think about this, think about that early career professional. Maybe they've just finished up high school or maybe they just finished up college and they've landed in their first real job. Right. And they want to be a CEO like you. So what is one other leadership habit that you maybe had learned the hard way or maybe it dawned on you a little bit later and you like to give these people we're talking to a heads up on something, a leadership habit that will fuel their success early on. What comes to mind, Toby?
- [36:37]
A
I think the one the most powerful tool managers have and they should use and it's typically difficult because I don't know whether you know what we call it the Insights profile. It's based on my application type indicator. But there's different colors. A lot of the managers are red, which means they want to get things done. They're extroverted, they're head driven and they're very good in giving instructions and being fast managing deadlines. But they're not so good in listening. And the most important thing is Active listening. I think really not just listening so I can answer, but listening. I truly understand what is behind it. When I came to South Africa was quite amazing for me. I arrived there, it was the first time in Africa I took the job. I was never put foot into any African country, not even Morocco, Egypt. So I took the job, went there, listened to a lot of people. They all told me pretty much the same. I did what they told me and they were like, my gosh, this guy is a genius. And I was like, I just do what you guys told me to do. But you have to buy in by the people. Typically, the organization very well knows where the weak points are, what the things are which have to be changed. So I think just being humble, listen to the people and taking the time, which sometimes is. It's hard. Yeah. I'm also a red person, a red and yellow person doesn't come naturally, but it's so powerful. So invest the time, truly understand it, and then make sense out of it. I think that is really, really powerful.
- [38:06]
B
Toby, that's billion dollar advice in these inflationary times. Yasine, your thoughts on what Toby just shared.
- [38:13]
C
I'm a huge fan of. I believe the book is surrounded by idiots. I'm forgetting the name of the author, but it does break different people into or codes them into these different colors. I believe it's red, yellow, green and blue. But I completely agree with you, Toby. I think having that skill of active listening, something that I'm still definitely working on, is a crucial tool of being able to like, understand your environment and how to influence your employees and inspire the people around you.
- [38:42]
B
Well said, Yasine. Well said. And I'll tell you, we, we all, this conversation is a great example. I'm chomping at the bit to react to things that Toby's saying and Yasina saying. But the reason that I am is because I'm really listening to this good stuff they're sharing. I'm not always really good at that. And it's such a great and simple lesson, but a powerful lesson that we all, I think, can do so much better, especially in this social media environment. Right. We're sharing so much. But the other thing that Toby has baked into a lot of his responses here today, at least in this second half, is ownership.
- [39:18]
C
Right?
- [39:19]
B
An ownership. And I'll tell you, I got three kids and if there's anything I try to impress upon them is that, you know, no one owes them anything. They're gonna have to own their journey and they're gonna have to do it. And you know, I'm support them to the end of the earth. But we've got to own the successes, we got to own the challenges, we got to own how we behave, how we manage, how we lead. And Toby, you mentioned going fast a couple of times, but you implied going fast is important in this high velocity world. But we got to go fast down the right path. Otherwise going fast, we're just doing getting further and further away from the goal. Toby, I'm going to give you before we make sure folks can connect with you, anything you want to leave with us here today. And then we're going to make sure folks now to connect with you and all the good people at dhl.
- [40:09]
A
Now listen, I think it's about ownership. I think that what I really like and you alluded earlier to it, I think the logistics sector since COVID has gained a lot of more appreciation and attention. I think people woke up to the fact of what is happening behind the scenes. A lot of people doing a lot of hard work, managing a lot of difficult situation and unexpected events. What I would perhaps encourage everybody who's young, talented, eager, perhaps a little adventurous, perhaps living in Europe or the US take a risk, come and work in the Middle east and Africa and perhaps not just in Dubai, but work in Lagos, work in Accra, work in Dakar, work in Agadir. I'll tell you, you'll be surprised how amazing those places are, how busting these places are and what kind of difference you can make and how much you can learn in a short period of time. It will change your careers, unfortunately. And I think that's something we still struggle to find people willing to go that direction. It's much easier to export talents, but we need to get talents to go there. And it will change your life. And if you have been there three years and lived on the ground, you'll have a different perspective on the world. I can guarantee that to you. And when you're back, wherever you want to go next, if you want to go back, because I'm stuck here now and I don't want to go back, it will be something special. So I would just really encourage everybody to take some risk, explore something different. It might not be the ordinary, it might not be the comfort zone, but you need to get out of the comfort zone to really grow. So please do that and I'm sure you'll build an amazing career.
- [41:38]
B
Well said, Toby. So my final question to you, you're seeing you're about to get the toughest question of the whole day because Toby shared a lot of good stuff with us. But Toby, how can folks connect with you? And DHL Global 40 alluded to that.
- [41:52]
A
So I'm a very active on LinkedIn. So reach out on LinkedIn you can follow. Typically when I'm traveling, I'm making some pictures. You will see a lot of my amazing colleagues from across the region. We call ourselves the lion and Falcons and because call ourselves the hot and spicy region because we're a little bit different. You know, we are the sexy part of a German big organization, the yellow machine. But we are there for all our customers and partners to make a true difference. We play hard, but we also can party hard. So it's part of the whole package. Reach out whenever I'm. I'm speaking somewhere typically you'll see on LinkedIn as well. Of course, when you're in Dubai, visit us in our amazing innovation center. It's one of a kind where we showcase innovations and connect with all our partners and interested young people. Actually, just this morning I had the German school here in Dubai walk in to have a day here at the facility and learn about all the great stuff we do. So reach out, connect and let's stay in the conversation.
- [42:45]
B
Outstanding. Toby Meyer, CEO of Middle east and Africa with DHL Global Forwarding. Thank you so much for your time. And Toby, stick around for a second because we're about to give a pop quiz to Yasine here. I'm gonna see his answer. But it's good to be hot and spicy. It's good, you know, being vanilla all the time. It's be hot and spicy, folks.
- [43:07]
C
All right.
- [43:07]
B
You seen Toby has really brought it here today. I've really enjoyed his. His down to earth grounded perspective and, and his advice and his, his analysis of the region and our industry and as well as the serendipitousness. That's a word that brought him into this incredible industry and of course, some of the secrets behind his success. But Yasin, what is your single favorite takeaway from our conversation with Toby?
- [43:33]
C
I couldn't agree more with you, Scott. And I think this was an incredibly uplifting conversation with Toby. I think the main takeaway from this conversation being taking a ton of notes throughout our session. But I think this intentionality and this act of listening is not just translated at a personal level, at a human interaction level. It's being translated throughout DHL's operations on the continent. I think through the conversation that we've had today, DHL is really trying to make an effort to uplift those that are in need. And I think with this $300 million investment that they recently made, it's again, speaking to that intentionality and really listening to what's looking and what's really needed on the continent. So I think this was a fantastic session and I think I'm really excited to look forward to the impact that DHL has in the future.
- [44:27]
B
Well said, Yasine. And folks, if you don't know, I tell you, you seen, I can't keep up with all the different things you're involved in. And your leadership, I love it, admire it. We need more of an industry. How can folks connect with you to learn more about anything you shared here today or to connect with you on something else.
- [44:43]
C
I really appreciate that. Thanks, Scott. I'm really trying to just be like you. But yeah, thanks so much. I'm happy to connect on LinkedIn. It's Y, a S E N and then a H, M, I D. That's the best way for people to get in touch and to keep connected.
- [45:00]
B
It's just that easy. Okay, folks, I tell you what, what a great conversation. I want to thank again, Toby Meyer, CEO for Middle east and Africa with DHL Global Forwarding. Toby, thank you so much for being here.
- [45:11]
A
Thanks for having me.
- [45:12]
B
We're gonna have you back soon. Get an update on that electric plane. You got my attention with that. Big thanks to Yasin Ahmed as well. Always a pleasure to collaborate and learn from you, Yasin.
- [45:21]
C
Likewise, Scott has been a fantastic session, no doubt.
- [45:24]
B
Okay, so folks, to our Supply Chain Now Global Fam. Hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. I've got my. I got 12 pages of notes today from Toby and Yasine. But folks, you know your homework, right? You gotta take one thing and there's a wide array of options at your disposal. Take one thing from the great stuff we heard here from Toby and Yassine and do something with it, right? Deeds, not words. That's how we'll keep transforming global supply chain and leave no one behind. So with all that said, Scott Luden, challenging all of our listeners to good give forward. Be the change that's needed. And we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody. Join the Supply Chain now community. For more supply chain chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supplychain now.com subscribe to supply chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to Supply Chain Now. Wherever you get your podcasts.