Decoding Loyalty: What the Latest Research Reveals About Repeat Buyers

Summary

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Supply Chain Now

Episode: Decoding Loyalty: What the Latest Research Reveals About Repeat Buyers
Date: November 17, 2025
Guests: Lori Boyer (Director of Content, EasyPost & Host, Unboxing Logistics), Tevin E. Taylor
Host: Scott Lewton

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into groundbreaking research about what truly drives repeat purchases and customer loyalty in the modern supply chain and e-commerce landscape. Scott Lewton, Tevin E. Taylor, and repeat guest Lori Boyer of EasyPost unpack the latest data and best practices, offering actionable advice for shippers, retailers, and supply chain professionals on how to retain loyal customers, manage post-purchase experience, and combat challenges in tracking, claims, and returns.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The State of Customer Expectations: Data-Driven Loyalty Drivers

• Experience Now Equals Product Value:
  • 80% of customers say the experience matters as much as the product itself.
  • 2025 data shows a majority of consumers have stopped buying from a brand due to a bad experience. ([08:32–11:38])
• Personalization is Paramount:
  • 74% of consumers desire more personalized offers.
  • Most-opened customer communications are tracking notifications—a key touchpoint for branding or upsell opportunities. ([00:00], [21:09])
• Reliability and Flexibility Outrank Free Shipping:
  • Recent findings show customers now prioritize reliable and flexible delivery over free shipping. ([08:32])

“For the first time, we’re seeing that experience, the actual purchasing experience, is carrying as much weight as the product.”
— Lori Boyer, [08:32]

2. Who Owns the Post-Purchase Experience?

• Customers hold the brand, not the carrier, responsible for the entire delivery experience—shipping mishaps or returns included.
• 63% of companies still hand off this entire experience to the carrier or a third party, despite changing customer attitudes. ([08:32–14:18])

“You pass off the ownership of the experience at your own peril.”
— Scott Lewton, [11:38]

• A negative delivery can become a loyalty moment if brands respond quickly and go the extra mile to resolve:

  "A negative issue with delivery or returns can actually turn into a positive experience, even more than just it going through the way it's supposed to."
  — Lori Boyer, [17:22]

3. Actionable Best Practices for Shippers

a) Tracking & Notifications ([19:46–26:36])

• Clarity and Proactive Communication:

  • Clear delivery dates and proactive, end-to-end notifications (email and SMS/text) are essential.

  • Only 1 in 3 major retailers send “delivered” notifications; less than 30% use text, missing customer expectations.

    "Customers should never need to log in ... Email’s still the top channel ... but consumers want a text message."
    — Lori Boyer, [21:09]

• Leverage Branding and Upselling:

  • Notifications are high-engagement moments—embed branding and consider promotional messages.

• Automate to Reduce 'Where is My Stuff' (WISMO) calls:

  • Advanced tracking systems can cut WISMO queries by 61% and reduce service costs.
  • Don’t require logins for tracking links—keep it friction-free.

b) Claims & Damage Handling ([26:49–31:51])

• Immediate, Brand-Led Resolution:

  • Brands must proactively contact the customer about lost or damaged packages.
  • Speedy refunds or replacements yield better customer loyalty.

• Automate the Claims Process:

  • Many shippers neglect insurance claims—leaving “hundreds of millions of dollars” unclaimed per year.

  • EasyPost’s automated USPS claims system files for losses/damages without manual input, directly benefiting shippers.

    "60% of damaged and lost products are not ever getting claimed ... zero risk to you."
    — Lori Boyer, [26:49]

c) Returns Management ([32:14–37:51])

• Returns Must Be Easy—But With Checks:

  • 19% of products are now returned; 84% of consumers will leave their favorite brand if return policies tighten.

  • Free, simple returns remain the norm, but segment policies for serial returners or offenders.

  • Growing fraud (“friendly” and organized) is a major industry concern–segment policies and leverage tracking to deter abuse.

    “If you have abusers... you may want to set up slightly different return policies for different kinds of segments.”
    — Lori Boyer, [32:23]

• Sustainability & Transparency:

  • Customers increasingly care about the fate of returns—avoid landfill, explore refurbishment and resale.

• International Returns:

  • Abroad, it’s still common for retailers to tell customers to keep returned items due to prohibitive costs.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Experience and Ownership

“Customers will hold the brand responsible for the entire shipping experience… I called the company and they said, ‘well, it was not broken when it left our warehouse, so you need to deal with the carrier.’ And I was like, what? I don’t know how to deal with a carrier… I am never going back to that company again.”
— Lori Boyer, [08:32, 14:18]

On Returns

“Returns... are super expensive. 84% of consumers right now are saying that if you tighten your returns policy, they will leave, even if you are their favorite brand.”
— Lori Boyer, [32:23]

“Make it clear, make the refund quick. It’s part of your brand.”
— Tevin E. Taylor, [37:59]

Key Takeaway

“The customer experience doesn’t end at delivery. Own tracking, resolve claims, and in turn, returns into a brand moment.”
— Tevin E. Taylor, [48:06]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00: Stat—74% want personalized offers; tracking notifications as a branding and upsell opportunity.
• 08:32: Lori Boyer introduces key new data on customer loyalty and the importance of experience.
• 11:38–14:18: Discussion on brands’ need to own the end-to-end experience.
• 19:46–26:36: Three components of the customer experience (tracking, delivery, returns) and deep dive into tracking best practices.
• 26:49–31:51: How to handle claims and opportunities in automated claims processing.
• 32:14–37:51: Managing returns, policy pitfalls, fraud, sustainability trends, international challenges.
• 48:01: Tevin’s Big Takeaway—Customer experience is an ongoing journey, not a one-and-done transaction.

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Recommended Resources

• eBook: "What the WISMO? How to stop visibility gaps from stealing your revenue"
• One-Pager: Advantages of real-time tracking, notifications, estimated delivery dates
• Podcast Highlight: “Unboxing Logistics” (esp. on neurodiversity and current consumer data trends)

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Podcast Tone

• Conversational, data-driven, practical, and friendly. The hosts and guests blend expertise with humor and actionable insights.
• Memorable, honest anecdotes (e.g., travel stories, real consumer frustrations) ground the data in human experiences, making it relatable and actionable for practitioners at all levels.

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Summary

This episode arms supply chain and e-commerce leaders with fresh research and no-nonsense approaches for turning the post-purchase journey into a loyalty engine. Make the experience seamless—from proactive, branded tracking to automated claims and smooth returns—and customers will reward you with repeat business. But fail to own the last mile, and even the best products can’t save you. As Tevin sums it up: "Customer experience doesn’t end at delivery." Own every touchpoint, automate what you can, and harness every interaction—even the mishaps—as an opportunity to build trust and loyalty.

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Transcript

[A]

We had a stat that 74% of consumers are saying they're looking for more personalized offers. So get your own branding out there. When you think about it as a brand, one of your main things is simply to get your name, your logo, your info in front of people's faces. The most opened emails and text messages read are tracking notifications. What an opportunity to just get your name out there or to even upsell with it.

[B]

Welcome to Supply Chain now, the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership from across the globe, one conversation at a time.

[C]

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Lewton and Tevin E. Taylor with you here on Supply Chain now. Hey, Tevin, how you doing today?

[D]

I'm doing great. Greetings from the great state of Texas.

[C]

That is right, man. Cool things going on across Texas, but hey, cool things going on across global supply chain. We've got one of our favorite guests, world travelers, industry leaders back with us here today as we dive into what the latest market research tells us about repeat buyers. We're going to be discussing the science and a little bit of the art of loyalty. We're going to be offering up fresh research that supply chain, e commerce and shipping leaders you just got to be aware of. Plus better yet, we're going to be sharing proven best practices and just what you should be doing based on the data driven insights, especially if you're a shipper all that much, much more, folks. Stay tuned for what I think might be your most actionable learning hour of the day. So, Tevin, given your proven track record of making stuff happen in global supply chain in Texas and beyond, I'm looking forward to your insights here today. Should be a good one.

[D]

That'll be a really good one. Looking forward to diving into the facts and the numbers.

[C]

Facts, not feelings, folks, as the one and only Corinne Bursa likes to say. All right, Tevin, did you have your Wheaties this morning? You cranked up ready to go?

[D]

Oh, I'm fasting, so I'm going to be hungry. Let's go.

[C]

Okay. All right. Let's welcome in one of our favorite repeat guests, Lori Boyer, director, content with easy post and host of the wonderful podcast that better be on your radar unboxing logistics. Let's bring in Lori. Hey. Hey, Laurie, you're back by popular demand. How you doing?

[A]

I am doing so, so good. I didn't know Tevin was fasting. So now, Scott, you and I, we got to bring the energy for Tevin to fuel him.

[C]

Oh, no doubt, no doubt, Laura. Yes. We're going to keep the energy going and we're going to lift Tevin up. We got a lot of great stuff to get into here today. Let's start with this. You have been traveling the world. I'm so jealous. I'm green with envy. And I want to start with this incredible European trip that you and members of your family took recently. Tell us more, Lori.

[A]

Okay, so my dad has had this dream trip. All of our family basically immigrated to the United States. Last one who came was in like 1850. So we've been here in the US forever. But my dad is really into like family history and genealogy, and so he has always wanted to go visit the places his ancestors immigrated from. Most of them came from the uk, from England specifically. So he and I went on this two and a half week trip, took my daughter and we went to visit just a bunch of places to walk in the steps of our ancestors and to kind of see what life was like for them. It was super fun.

[C]

Wow. Okay, so let's share. Lori, again, so jealous. We're going to have to have a whole show set aside for all of your learnings and experiences.

[A]

Let's start with this slideshow.

[C]

Oh, we need a whole slideshow, like good old days. Now this is, I think, your daughter and your father and tell us where you are.

[A]

So here we are at Normandy and in France. And this is at the US Cemetery there from, you know, the great battle there. And it, it was really, really cool. And we did a whole day of. Just took a tour on Normandy, learned all about that. It was really interesting how much more present World War II seemed to be in the day to day life. Or, you know, oh, here was bombing, or this is where Germans had, you know, strongholds than here in the US and even though we were in World War II, it, you know, it wasn't in our backyard, it wasn't in our land. So it was just really interesting to see.

[C]

Wow. Okay. All right. From Normandy to something a little lighter note, tell us about where you are here.

[A]

Yeah. So here we are in the catacombs underneath the city of Paris. Under Paris, there's 200 miles of catacombs just filled with the bones of people from over an 800 year period. And it was so cool. Devin, you, I mean, you gotta go to that one. I resisted. There were a lot of rules about not touching the bones. And I felt this overwhelming urge to touch the bones, but I did not. And then they check your Bag when you leave to make sure you didn't steal any.

[C]

Really? Oh, my gosh.

[A]

So cat films, really cool. Nice and creepy.

[C]

And then this one's got a special story. Tell us more here, Laurie.

[A]

Yeah, so this is one of the ancestors, obviously, you know, this is the parent of one who had immigrated over. And so we kind of went to all these little tiny towns throughout the UK and a couple over in France. And what we did was we went and we found some of the censuses actually listed addresses. So we were able to find a couple of the actual houses still standing. We were able to go to the churches where they got married that are still there, and we went to the pubs that would have been there when they were there. And so, yeah, there's a Jane Bagley, one of our ancestors there and found her. Her tombstone in one of the cemeteries.

[C]

So that was okay. So, Tevin, I gotta get you to respond. As I mentioned, I'm green with envy, like that tombstone. Tevin, what was the coolest thing you heard there from Laurie?

[D]

The whole thing. I mean, that's kind of on my bucket list. I've been to Ireland, I've traveled the world, but it was always for business. But to go to Normandy, to live and feel that, I mean, we've got a veteran that worked with us, John Wayne Walding, and he always takes veterans over to go experience what you experience. But that's got to be humbling just to experience that, right?

[A]

It makes you so grateful. Really makes you just so grateful. Like, wow. You know, we take for granted so many things, so. Yeah, true.

[C]

Well, yeah, and gratitude isn't only for the month of November. It should be year round, given all the sacrifices so many before us have made. Okay, so we, like, got a lot to get into here today. Lori, we've enjoyed your visits with us this, this year. I love the data. Always a data focused angle you take to all of your expertise and perspective. For our new audience members, let's just make sure they understand a little bit about yourself and the cool things that easypost does. Kind of in a nutshell. Tell us more.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Lori Boyer, I oversee all our content at easypost. What that basically means is I just, I. I love data, I'm a nerd, but I also love storytelling. And so it's kind of the perfect meld of understanding the data and understanding the story and how it all fits together. And so that's what I get to do all the time, is kind of figure out what's going on in the industry. What are the latest trends, what is the latest data? And then what are we actually seeing from people and how is that fitting into their lives? So, love being able to help people. Easypost here, you can see, is kind of all in one shipping technology that really helps brands and shippers be able to make shipping from the moment somebody purchases until they get their return. You know, they get their package, make it really easy, and make it just smooth, you know, with labels, rates, tracking, all the good stuff that you need.

[C]

Meaning, Tevin. And. And, you know, I've learned this through all of my conversations with Lori and the gang because Easy Post has been on a move. We got a ship like it's 2025, not like it's 1985. Tevin, would you agree with that?

[D]

I. I would agree with that. Obviously, you know, we use Easy Post and they make it easy for us, and it's a plug and play for our business. So.

[C]

Yes. Yeah. Love it. So, as Lori mentioned, I'm also a fellow nerd, so me and Lori may be second cousins. Who knows? Journey. But I want to start with the latest data.

[D]

Right?

[C]

So, Lori, you've dove in. I think y' all conduct research at easypost. You've drove into other research. What's happening with consumers right now when it comes to experience? Tell us, what's the data? Tell us.

[A]

Okay. I'm kind of obsessed with customer data and figuring out what the heck we're supposed to do. So I've compiled just the latest studies, the most recent data that's come out, and there's a couple of things that I've noticed that are standing out. So first, customers who have the best experiences will spend about 140% more than those with poor experiences. That's huge. Six times more likely to stick around, be a good, loyal customer. Loyal customers are what we all want. They are so valuable. They're worth seeing. So much more than a new customer. But there's a few other things. For the first time, we're seeing that experience, the experience, the actual purchasing experience is carrying as much weight as the actual product. So 80% of customers are saying today the experience matters to them as much as the product itself. We're seeing the majority in 2025 of people have stopped buying from a brand this year because they had a bad experience. So that's huge. I have to say that what customers say is a bad experience. Sometimes we're a little picky. But then one more thing. In November, fresh data we're talking about Baby egg just broke Data from the latest data Reliability and flow flexibility outrank free shipping when it comes to loyalty. Okay, so when you're looking specifically at shipping, of course everyone wants free, but they really want reliability and flexibility. And this last one that I think is massive. And I can't wait to hear Tevin and Scott, what you think about this. But customers will hold the brand responsible for the entire shipping experience. That entire experience. So I had an experience myself recently. I had bought a brand new furniture piece. Beautiful. And I was really excited for it. It arrived at my house and I'm like, you know, trying to get it all put together. So excited. It was going to make my fall look so good. It was kind of this fireplace thing, but it was broken when it arrived and I was devastated. And I called the company and they said, well, it was not broken when it left our warehouse, so you need to deal with the carrier. And I was like, what? I don't know how to deal with a carrier and I'm not even sure I remember who shipped it. And we can't do that. It's just hard. It's not fair. I'm sure it was the carrier's fault, but again and again, people say they hold the brand, they hold the shipper responsible. Unfortunately, 63% of companies actually kind of hand off that whole experience to someone else. The carrier, usually, but it could be third parties as well. So that's kind of our data we're seeing. It's super, super, super important, even more than it has been in the past. And yeah, you know, with today the way the economy is, it's really important for us to make sure we're getting it right.

[C]

That's right. That is what a great starting point for this discussion here. Laura, you brought it like you always do. So, Tevin, there's so much there to comment on. I don't know about you, but I've got my own notes. But I want to pick up on one of our last points Laurie shared there. You pass off the ownership of the experience at your own peril. And if any folks with brands and shipping organizations, the shippers out there, man, they got to take that away from this conversation. But what'd you hear there, Tevin, and some of your own thoughts in terms of some of the data points and drivers out there?

[D]

Well, it makes me think of Amazon a little bit, but we're in a hyper competitive position. Everyone is. So if you have substitution where someone can switch and go somewhere else because they had a bad experience, you need to control and own the whole experience. Amazon does that. Today with their delivery drivers and being the shipper. It's funny, when she brought up reliability and flexibility, people were willing to give up free shipping. It makes me think of like uber eats and DoorDash. It's like I always thought it was crazy people would actually pay extra money to have food delivered. But that gives them the flexibility not to have to go fight a crowd, not to go into town, whatever. So yeah, it makes sense to me. The competitive nature and landscape has changed. So you do have that experience of the transportation is tied to the shipper, not necessarily to the carrier.

[C]

Tevin, excellent points. And I got to say I would admit this here and Tevin's going to think less of me. I use UberEats and I pay.

[A]

I do too. I do too.

[D]

Young too fold would do that.

[C]

But to your point, it's that convenience factor.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And even better yet, how I think how consumers and what they value. Lori's saying it. Both y' all are saying it. Really? That experience. That experience. You know, research also shows that as long as you can deliver a five day delivery time commitment on time, that is better than promising two days and it being one day late.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[C]

Those commitments we're making, or in this case in your example, Lori, that our. The carriers are. Our wonderful carrier partners are making brands, we're going to be held accountable. And I tell you, Lori, that was so to hear your experience and how they kind of completely put it off on the carrier, that's disappointing. And I would argue that's probably. You're out there because consumers are practitioners that probably runs counter to the prevailing way. Things are evolving. Would you agree with that, Lori?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I, I was very shocked by that. So yeah, just the fact that they started that way, I was so shocked by that. I think in general we're kind of getting the idea the consumer doesn't really care who ships their stuff. They don't care which label you're using. They don't care. They just care that it like Scott says, it arrives when they. You said it was going to arrive and in the condition that you want it in and that you create a great experience. And I had to say I am never going back to that company again.

[C]

Yes, well, and that's a. You know what? I bet all of us. I know I can really relate to what you just shared there. We're living proof a lot of data you just shared. But maybe the best stuff, as good as this is, the best is to come because Lori's going to give us advice for shippers everywhere so you can protect that brand promise and those brand commitments. Tevin, your thoughts? Are you leaving? Have you left brands based on bad experiences?

[D]

You know, shockingly I have and the one I brought up was Amazon. I didn't leave the brand, I left the person selling the product because they split my order. But that experience, if you have that experience, bad news is something you remember. And especially with my wife, she is disappointed in something being split. It's like we're not going to use them again, we're not going to do that again. We all go through that and we have options out there. Again, there's substitution. Omnichannel gives you the ability to buy the same thing from somewhere else more than likely or something that's very similar. So yeah, we've left brands before because the shipping experience and the delivery experience didn't meet the expectations.

[C]

Temptation, you know, a lot of folks can probably say the same thing. So three quick thoughts. Number one, it's a shame that bad news screams louder than good news. But that's kind of the world we live in, right? And that's part of the threat and part of the why that we gotta lean into better ways of doing things. Which leads to number two, folks, the great thing is, and you're gonna hear from Lori here in a minute, there's technology out there. Easy Post. If you don't get your help from Easy post, get it somewhere. But there's a better way. It's an easier way to put all the hard working team members that want to deliver on the brand promise and put them in a better position every day to do that. So stay tuned for that. And then lastly, delight after delivery, it matters. And quick thing there. So I don't buy clothes very often but I bought a couple of coats here recently from the same retailer in different orders, right? And in both cases the post by communication, especially the survey, they sent it way too prematurely. They were asking me about the coats before I even had a chance to take it out of the package. Make sure, I think one other thing here because folks really want to get, I think really want to give that feedback. There's data out there for that as well. Just make sure your communication is synced up so that that comes at the right time when the customer is more willing to and in a better position to give you that actionable feedback. It's really critical. Lori, comment there on that. Delight after delivery matters.

[A]

Is that what you I want to say as well. So we talk about this negative experience. You know something, it arrived broken One of the cool things about a negative experience like that is it's also proven to be one of the ways that you can actually stand out the most, is the way you respond to it. So if you just get it and it came and you expected it, that's just an average experience. That's what you expect, is that it arrives on time. If it doesn't and you have some sort of mishap, but the company comes out of its, oh, my goodness, Lori, I can't believe that was broken. I am immediately getting on this, sending it to you, and here is a $50 credit. Please take that as a, an apology. That now becomes a better experience in the eyes of the consumer than just that average it showed up. So a negative issue with delivery or returns or tracking can actually turn into a positive experience, even more than just it going through the way it's supposed to, which is how, you know, 99% of things hopefully go. It is a good point to bring up that when we're looking at carriers. So easypost works with pretty much every carrier you could ever name and then 16 your aunt Edna told you about. But there are a lot of different factors you should look at when you're looking at carriers. Some of them may be the speed, some of them may be the experience that's provided, some of them may be the cost. You know, those all come into play. And I think it's important for us to keep all of those in mind when we're selecting carriers.

[C]

Laurie, excellent point. And Tevin, you know, you've spent a ton of your career in logistics and making stuff happen and protecting these brand commitments. Your quick comment, sir?

[D]

Yeah, look like what she said about the reacting to an issue is important as the issue itself, but if you can wow the customer and make it better, I mean, we've all done that where you have that experience. A gift card, hey, we'll, we'll give you the product for free. Then you're like, okay, they made up for it. It made it better. Let's go. Right, so own that experience all the way through.

[C]

Yep. Million dollar maybe billion dollar advice there from both Lori and Tevin. Okay, so Lori, as much as I like that first segment, I love the second segment because it's like we're, we're offering some, some, some of the why and then we're offering straightforward ways, actionable ways that folks can act on it. So let's dive into what shippers need to do with all these insights. I think we're going to tackle three at a High level and then dive in deeper, right?

[A]

Yeah, you bet. So to me, this is my favorite part because I think it's super critical that when you come on any of these kind of webinars, if you go listen to somebody in person, if you're listening to the podcast, anything that you need to have actionable things you're coming away with and knowing, okay, yeah, I know that it's hard, but like, what the crap am I supposed to do? So first of all, what even is that experience? It's what research shows is made up of three different segments. So once somebody hits buy, they are looking at tracking. Okay, so what is happening with my package? Transparency. Understanding where their package is. The next step is the actual package arriving. Did it arrive on time? Was it broken? Is it the product I ordered? You know, that kind of experience. And then the third section is the returns process. If it, I do have a problem with it. What does that look like? So those are kind of the three elements and I want to kind of dig into each one of those to talk about the best practices around how to manage it and encourage you really kind of to not hand that off to someone else. As we mentioned earlier, you need to own this three prong series. So, yeah, love to hear from you guys.

[C]

So, okay, so we're about to dive a little deeper into tracking and claims and returns. And I know all of y', all, regardless what you do in global supply chain, you're all consumers. But let's take a deeper dive. Let's talk tracking first. So tell us more there.

[A]

Okay, so tracking, it's really, really, really important. The most important thing to people are the is a clear delivery date. As long as it comes when it's you say it's going to come, you'll be okay. So you've got to have a clear delivery date. They want proactive end to end notifications. What's interesting, one of their favorite notifications, one of the most popular, is that delivered notification. Yes. But we are still seeing a third of us biggest retailers don't send that delivered notification. Really? Make sure you're sending the delivered notification. Customers should never need to log in. Okay. They want to see a status by email. Email's still the top channel that we're sending, but text message is big. We're seeing fewer than three in ten sending text messages. But that's really what consumers want, is a text message. So if you have the option to send notifications by text message, do it. That's a differentiator for you and can make A big difference. Customers also really like branding personalization. People are really, you know, we had a stat that 74% of consumers are saying they're looking for more personalized offers. So get your own branding out there. When you think about it, when you send, you know, as a brand, one of your main things is simply to get your name, your logo, your info in front of people's faces. The most opened emails and text messages read are tracking notifications. What an opportunity to just get your name out there or to even upsell with it. But again, predictability beats raw speed every single time. Make sure that you're being accurate. If there's a mishap, be reaching out immediately. Don't just cross your fingers and pray that maybe they won't notice or maybe it'll end up being on time. If they're aware of what's going on and you're keeping them in the loop, they're typically most of the time going to be okay.

[C]

Yep. Excellent, man. You promised a deep dive, and we got one. From a tracking standpoint, Tevin, your thoughts on what we just heard there from Lori?

[D]

I mean, it's table stakes to give the tracking, right? So that's just giving updates, but it's not just giving updates. It's reassurance. And what I'm hearing is tie that reassurance and that confidence and that post purchase anxiety into a sales opportunity. Personalize it, make it where they see your brand and they feel good about it. Like they know there's reliability because you're giving them proactive communication. So it's crazy that we're talking about this in 2025, but Laura's right. It's not happening everywhere. And whoever can do it best gets that customer loyalty and the repeat buys.

[C]

Yes. You know, it's not happening everywhere because one of the reasons probably we're all humans, we cling to how we've always done things right. And we've got to have powerful, robust technology to enable a lot of these things and really make it easy. Lori, one of the times you joined us this year, we talked a lot about the whole Wizmo thing. Rather than put the where is my stuff Updates on the very busy, valuable human component, we can automate that stuff, right? And automate the inbounds, automate the updates. I think the other really important thing you said beyond and you said shared a lot. I'm trying to keep up with you notewise, but I'm reading my chicken scratch and I'm feeling the delivery notifications. That's really valuable. But even better yet, something you shared there don't make your customers log in. That happened to me just yesterday. You get a text message, sometimes you click on the link, it takes you to a login on your, the web app or whatever. Man. There's a better seamless way of making that happen.

[A]

Yeah, I love how Tevin said as well, like it's 2025 and I constantly, as I'm getting the latest data, I'm like, how are we still at this point? I feel like we should be at a point where it is that seamless because there are, there is a lot of great technology. I want to say too, when it, when Tevin was talking about using it as a marketing experience, I talked with one of our customers here recently who was doing so good with that in their messages. They were sending additional like upsell opportunities. They were sending like discount codes. They were trying out a bunch of different things with they at easypost. So if you're an easypost customer, hi, I love you. You gotta look at our advanced tracking. So advant, we have regular tracking, just basic API. But the advanced tracking is a new feature we have and the customer was using this. It allows all that branded experience for you to own it. But they were seeing huge gains by, you know, it's basically almost a marketing opportunity because people are opening it and they're like, oh yeah, maybe let me check this out too or being able to send deals. Scott, you mentioned wsmo. We see generally with our tracking that the Wizmo calls go down about 61%, service costs go down 23%. You get great ROI moments simply just from tracking. At Easypost, it's advanced tracking, an advanced track, but it doesn't have to be from easypost. Just make sure you got technology out there that is giving you real time tracking information, that you're getting text messages, that you're personalizing it and that you are the one owning that tracking experience variance and you're not putting it off to somebody else.

[C]

That's right. That is absolutely right. All right, so we really double down on, on tracking. Right. And good reason, let's double down in claims because this allows us some cool things to take friction and headaches and loss out of the equation. Right.

[A]

Okay. So yeah, what's interesting in that customer experience, the actual number one most important element is kind of the second step. So tracking is second, even though I listed it first. The most important is the actual package arriving when it's supposed to and in the condition that you want it to arrive. That's what customers look at most. So this is where what I like to say is really, really important for you. You know, obviously you've got, you picked shipping that had an accurate delivery date. It's arrived. What do you do if it's broken? You need to immediately they want the refund first fast. Okay, so you need to be reaching out. You need to be, if you get a notification, you know you may have gotten a flagged exception in your system, you should be the one first reaching out to them to say hey, it looks like we may have had a mishap or we've got a lost package. It's worse when they reach out to you. Data shows that again and again. But if they do reach out to you, speed is of the essence. Taking care of the problem really fast, creating really what Tevin mentioned earlier, that really incredible experience, experience through making it right. But I want to say I, I get a lot of issues and questions people have around how do I manage that? Claims is a part of the industry that I feel like you guys are missing out on way too often as shippers. So a lot of the big carriers, USPS, FedEx, they offer automatically a hundred dollars of built in insurance when you ship like Ground Advantage, Priority Mail, Priority Mail Express, but it's kind of complicated. So again, if you are an easypost customer, we have the most amazing feature that just launched recently. It's called our USPS claims. All you have to do is go into your EasyPost dashboard. Okay? So if you're easy post customer, go into your dashboard, go to the insurance tab and simply click Accept Terms and Services with USPS Claims. What that does is that easypost monitors and any of the things that come up flagged as lost or damaged, we will automatically file that claim for you and then send you the money. What we see is 60% because we have all the data in our systems. So 60% of damaged and lost products are not ever getting claimed. People are not looking for that money because it is really, really hard to do. So there is zero risk to you. If you know it is so easy, there is no reason. Especially so if you ship usps, please and you're at easypost, click on that. If you don't use easypost, well come use easypost. But if you don't file those claims yourself, that is money owed to you. Hundreds of millions of dollars getting lost every year that we're not taking advantage of because there's built in insurance and there's also a lot of other insurance things you can do you know, damage, protection, different things that you can make sure that are above and beyond and you'll want that if you have kind of more high end products. But I just absolutely had to say please do your claims. That is so much money that you can get easily.

[C]

And hey, if you don't want that money, let me know. I'd love to claim. All right, kidding aside, tremendous opportunities and hey, to Lori's point, if we can automate it, oh my God, get our cake and eat it too. Tevin, we heard a lot of their deep dive into claims and, and tremendous opportunities out there. Your thoughts?

[D]

You know, I think that hundred dollar number has been out there for 20 years. You would think inflation would catch up. Then that number wouldn't be a hundred dollars. Still. That's the, that's just it. Just, you know, a hundred dollars used to be a lot of money. Nowadays I'm surprised sending seven to Congress.

[A]

Go get it higher for us, Evan.

[D]

No. So I love the automated idea. Look, it's no longer a back office task. It's a customer experience touch point. Every delay in every manual process and pain you put a customer through adds friction. So smooth it out, build credibility, make it, turn it from a detractor to an advocate. Right. The customer experience, that is so it's an efficiency gain. And this is Lori's right. People are missing out on this. There's money on the table. If there's an issue with delivery and it's not just delivery of the product's damage, it's if it's not delivered on time. There are money back guarantees that you can say I'm not going to pay for the shipping because you didn't deliver it on time. You got to look at that too.

[C]

Tevin, excellent comments. And you know, had a dear friend, former co host with me that once told, once said this on a podcast interview. And we know that there's a, there's a formal science now when it comes to customer experience. It wasn't always like that. Right. And Greg, Greg said, well, supply chain was the original and still is the original customer experience. And it's so true and we're illustrating it today via this conversation we're having with Lori and Tevin.

[A]

I just want to say that we see 8 billion packages, 2 billion. Oh no, I forgot my stat that are blind meaning in the US people don't know where it is. The shippers themselves, the carriers. At some point it's a huge problem that transparency, visibility is critical. And yeah, that comes down to technology and making sure, you're flagging where you are missing out on that visibility.

[C]

We talk tracking, we talk claims, all with actionable advice and expertise, both from Lori and Tevin. So let's talk returns. Tell us more.

[D]

What?

[A]

Okay, I just had to kick this off. I spoke at a conference on Monday and one of the segments that we were speaking on was returns. It was a big retail conference, lots of large retailers there. Boy, the returns part of our talk just blew up. People are struggling with returns. One of the. I just want to say, even if you are a giant shipper, they are struggling with returns just as much as everyone else returns. We're now seeing about 19% of all products are returned, and that's massive amounts of money. Returns, though, are super expensive. And first, let me give you a little bit of background of what we're seeing right now. So some of the questions that I've been getting are what do I do about my returns policy? How do I offset all these costs because returns are so expensive and yet keep a good expense experience? So I just was speaking with somebody from Blue Yonder. Their most recent study just came out around what consumers expect when it comes to returns. And I was struck by the fact that it said 84% of consumers right now are saying that if you tighten your returns policy, they will leave, even if you are their favorite brand, their favorite one. So we're in an economy right now where it's probably not the best time to try to tighten things up. That being said, returns do not need to be a huge loss issue. It's going to come down to being able to make it easy for the customer. So customers should be able to return really quickly, really easily. There's a lot of different services you can use if you have really fancy stuff. There are concierge services that will come and pick up that item from them at their house and hand deliver it back. That I've talked to companies that do that. There are some really great things when it comes to reselling and trying to offset those costs that you're getting. You should be tracking, tracking, tracking. So if you have abusers of the system, you may want to set up slightly different return policies for different kind of segments of people. So there are some who kind of dive in. And there's even. What we've found are some actually organized crime kind of scams where they will request a return and, and, and expect that maybe your warehouse is overflowing. I spoke with the man at this conference. He came up after and he said, look, I have a warehouse filled with hundreds of thousands of returns that they're just piling up. I literally don't know what to do with them. I don't. They're not. I don't know how to track them. I don't know what to do with all this stuff. I think it's just going to the landfill. That was another big jump is consumers are more concerned about returns going to landfills and are more likely now than ever in the past to ask you what you're doing with your returns. So while the process needs to be really easy, we're still at the most part where you're going to want to do free returns. That being said, I do think there are exceptions. If you have some of those kind of people who you can see in your system have been returning frequently, returning all the time, then you may say, like, after a certain number of returns in a year, you're going to start getting charged a return fee that's totally reasonable and it helps kind of weed out some of that, you know, repeat offenders we're seeing. Some people are. We're telling me that they'll get boxes they open, don't even have the product in them, just in the hope that it's like that friend I spoke to at the conference and you're not looking. So those are okay. I had. I was talking with somebody else who said they recently bought four dresses, that they were wedding dresses. So they. She's like, I just wanted to buy them online and so from four different big places. And then she picked them and then she returned one of the four charged a return fee. So just if you're kind of curious where that is, these were big companies that you would know, big department kind of stores. She did say she did. I'm feeling pretty annoyed at the one that charged her to return it, but so probably in that case, it was about 75% did not charge. But making sure it's really, really smooth. And then one of the biggest pieces of advice, play offense as a good defense or vice versa. Make sure that you are trying to avoid returns in the first place. Do you have certain products that are frequently getting returned? Do you have the ability for people to look at the description? Do you have customer reviews on there that say, oh, it's a little large, a little small like you'll see on Amazon. Do you have the ability for people to try things on with cameras? One last point, and then I want to hear more and we can talk all about returns. I feel like returns is such a huge thing, but I Recently interviewed a couple of guys who are really big into the international scenes. International shipping, that's their specialty. And, and they both said that generally internationally most returns, they're just leaving as they don't take it back. It's pretty rare that an international shipping is going to be worth the money to bring it back. We are seeing actually a fall in 2025 of the number of companies saying just keep it because they are saying okay, I want my stuff back, there are ways to use it. But internationally that's not true. It's still the vast majority of products you ship internationally end up just saying keep the item. So let's talk about it, guys.

[C]

I'll tell you what. You have set the table. You have set the table. Lori, who got quite a returns picnic. Ted, let me go to you first. Your thoughts.

[D]

Laurie's right. We could talk about this all day long. I mean look, Tony's done a great job with the. Well used to be the Reverse Logistics Association. Now it's part of NRF of really educating and helping people with returns. It should be something that helps with convenience. It's not really a cost measure that 19% is built in the cost of goods sold. But make it where they're clear instructions. People understand what they're buying, how they're buying it. If you have to do the return, make the refund quick. You know it's part of your brand and people do look and say okay, what's the return policy? I think the window needs to be shrunk down. They need to do a better job of when they get the product back, making sure it is what it is. All the fraudulent activity out there, the bad guys always find ways to put dry ice in a box, whatever. That's always going to happen. But really make a positive return experience something that helps drive the refurbishment purchase and elevate your brand. But you got to have some fence post around it. If not then you're gonna have to be managing that and it gets out of hand, right Kevin?

[C]

Undoubtedly. So I went to an event, Lori and Tevin in Dallas. Lori, I missed you when I went and Tevin, I think and you had the leading, some of the leading voices in one room from across Reverse Logistics Returns management and Laura, you hit on their number one concern. There was one of the most. I mean it was a great. There's lots of stuff discussed but the dominant theme was fraud. And you touched on what some folks call friendly fraud which most consumers would admit to. It is a growing problem. It's a growing problem. And then to Tevin's point and Laura, you mentioned the criminal syndicates out there that really is leaning into easy returns policies and have some highly engineered complex approaches to make the most. It is also growing like a tidal wave. So expect to hear more about it. Two other quick final thoughts. Automation is really tricky, as Tevin and Lori both know. Although it's growing, we got some technology, automation, AI you name is really growing on the reverse side and returns management side. But there's a bulky aspect of returns which is really challenging right now. I'm sure we'll, we'll overcome it at some point. And lastly Laura, you touched on internationally we all have different norms. You know, one of the leading voices that I heard from talked about Japan and the reason Japan doesn't have nearly the returns issue that we have in the States is because they have not created a mindset like we have here where we're turn everything, where it becomes such a competitive differentiator. That's what's helping fuel this tidal wave of challenges. So the good news though, Lori and Tevin, we have tremendous opportunities to not only delight the customer in forward and reverse, but also mitigate and hopefully bring down the tunnel wave of returns. We shall see. All right, so Lori and Tevin, I wish we had another hour. We gotta, we gotta make sure a couple things here. Number one, Lori, you've laid out the value proposition and I really appreciate how you have. You know, you're putting talking about what Easy Post does, but you're also talking about the opportunity that folks got to be getting from their technology provider that helps optimize their shipping. If folks want to lean into easypost and start working with y' all today, how can they make that happen?

[A]

So you can always go to easypost.com you can reach out to me, I'm on LinkedIn, happy to connect with anyone. I love connecting with people and learning. I think we have a few things that we shared around our advanced tracking our guard. That's where the USPS claims. If you want to learn about that and learn more, I these are two things I really love for this time of year because making a lot of big changes in November is a little scary for people. But things like tracking and you know, claims you can do those right now and it's not going to impact anything crazy, nothing. You know, your systems aren't going down. You don't need all these kinds of crazy integrations. So EasyPills has an array really. I like to say we handle it from the minute that they sell and even a little bit before all the way through until they want to buy again. And so go in, check it out, ask questions. I'd love to chat with any of you about easypost. If not easy post, please be using some technology with the complexity we have in our industry with these things like returns claims, you can see why people just sometimes are like, I just am not doing it because it's so complicated. But there, there is technology to make it easier. So make sure you're doing that.

[C]

Lori, so true. And folks, easypost.com you can also connect with Lori and check out the great content leadership perspective that she drops out across social. Make sure you do that. All right. And Tevin, really quick, I think it's important to note that if you don't get your help from Easy post, get it, get your help from somewhere. And the point that Lori mentioned, it's really non invasive. That might be more of a surgical term than a supply chain term. But the way easy post works, folks can get started today. I know we're already in peak and we got the holidays upon us, but you can also start getting value today. It's not a big, as Lori mentioned, not a big integration, losing months, systems going down, you know, figuring stuff out and then you get a return a year later stuffing like that. Tevin, your quick thoughts?

[D]

Yeah, I think it was Jeff Bezos that said humans are inherently lazy so they make their claims process a little difficult. It's not really difficult, but they make it difficult enough where it's like it's not worth my time. So easy coast bridges that gap. It makes it easy to actually file claims and manage. So that's on the claim side, the tracking side. Again, table stakes. You have to be tracking, updating, giving people that, that level of credibility and support.

[C]

That's right, that's right. And we didn't talk talk about Lori. I wish I had thought about this on the front end as you were kind of laying out the case for the why I was just talking mess on the buzz. On Monday, Americans alone lost $15.7 billion in stolen packages in 2024 due to mainly porch pirates and retailers only covered 6.5 billion in refunds. So folks, now's the time. Optimize, optimize how we ship. Don't let that be your customers.

[A]

Oh, I'm surprised by that, Scott. That's a, that's an interesting stat. Yeah, always get my attention if you get a good stat.

[C]

I try. I work really hard to get Lori's approval around here. All right, so Laura, beyond the cool things you're doing, you and the team are doing to help optimize shipping and give folks more success and a better ability to delight customers. I'm a big admirer of your podcast, which we got to touch on. Right. Unboxing logistics. All right, so tell us. And there's a lot to choose from. I'm picking out the last six episodes you see right in front of you. What is one of your favorite recent eureka moments from the podcast?

[A]

Oh, God. There's been some really good ones. Okay. If I was going to do a couple of things, I'm stealing two. Scott, don't be mad. One of them is I interviewed somebody earlier this year who was going over consumer data when it comes to purchasing. And one one of the things that stood out to me was that they said we see again and again the studies show that people say that they don't want to, that they're going to stop buying, but the actual data has not yet shown that they're doing that. And so that one just stood out to me because of the fact that I love data, but sometimes what the data shows, our actions don't always follow. Maybe we know we're not supposed to be buying, but we do anyway. So I think it's important to keep an eye on both what people are saying and what is actually happen. And then I also. That one you just showed on the end. We did this great episode on neurodiversity. Super fascinating topic where I think it's 63% or something of people in supply chain are neurodivergent. Almost double other industries. Super interesting. And so we went through and talked with a couple of experts on this topic and how to do that. It was just a really interesting and kind of different topic. So. Loved that. Go check that one out.

[C]

Love it. Hey, it's important that we kind of go off road and not tread the same or old ground. Every. Just like today. Touched on AI a couple times. Yeah, AI is a big part of Easy Post, but we touched on a lot of things beyond.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So well done, Lori and Tevin. Tevin, don't go anywhere because I've got to get your patented key takeaway from the whole conversation here today. Tevin. That's going to be a tough. That might be the toughest question of the whole day. All right, let's do this. We got some great resources. I want to start with this. We've got an ebook. What the Wismo? Where's my stuff? Right? Where's my stuff at? Help me Finish that acronym. Lori, stop.

[A]

Yeah, where is my order?

[C]

That's what it is.

[A]

Lots of tips for making sure your visibility is good, folks.

[C]

Check it out. Great ebook. It's easy to download too. I look, I look for that in ebooks, white papers, you name it. I hate when you've got to go through 27 steps.

[A]

Yeah, easy.

[C]

So what the wizmo, how to stop visibility gaps from stealing your revenue. Because don't we all hate a thief? I know, I know I do. Secondly, we got a great one pager. Hey, gosh, I wish I could talk more succinctly in one page fashion these days. Well, this is focused on the advantages of real time tracking, notifications, estimated delivery dates, and a whole bunch more. Because you can bet your bottom dollar that your customers want to know. And just like we established here today, just like all of us know as consumers, right? And I would challenge you. Think like, think like you're.

[D]

You're.

[C]

It's important to put our consumer mindset on, even if we work in supply chains. Practitioners, that really helps that outside the four walls perspective. Okay, Sheriff Taylor, we're coming to you. You've really dropped some golden. You and Lori both have really backed up the truck, as Jake Barr would say, and dropped some gold nuggets on us here today. Actionable gold nuggets. Tevin. What one thing. If folks forget everything else and you know, we're humans, we have a very short attention span. If we forget anything else, what's the one big thing Tevin that folks got to keep front and center?

[D]

Well, first I'm just sad that I've never been on Lori's podcast.

[A]

Got it on. Tevin.

[D]

There you go. It's a. It's a very simple sentence. It's the customer experience doesn't end at delivery. Everything we've talked about, it just doesn't end at delivery. So, you know, you got to own tracking, resolve claims and in turn returns into a brand moment. So customer experience doesn't end at delivery. So that's what I'd sum up today's podcast with.

[C]

I love it. I love it. Don't stop there. Don't fall into that traditional trap. You get the order out the door and your job's done. Don't fall in that. And by the way, we put Lori's LinkedIn out there and of course easypost.com we also encourage connect with Tevin Tevin's LinkedIn there as well as well as how to find and subscribe spot channel, wherever you get your podcast. So, all right. Good stuff, Tevin E. Taylor. Good stuff. Lori B. Boyer. Lori, folks can connect you via LinkedIn. Anything else you want to throw out there? Any I know you speak, do a lot of keynoting, do a lot of traveling, getting out industry which I love. Anything else you want to throw out there? A great way of where folks can find you.

[A]

Yeah, I'm speaking at different shows but come watch the podcast, join our community there. They're fantastic. Love to connect with you on LinkedIn and hear more from you or you know, suggestive of things that you want to learn. So if you don't want to do all the data nerdy stuff, that's what I like to do for fun. Shoot me a messenger. Be like, can you please do an episode on Blank? Happy to do so. Just reach out, connect. I feel like relationships in this industry are super, super critical and really powerful for helping make change.

[C]

Well said, well said. Always a pleasure folks. See why we love having Lori on and Tevin on. I'll tell you, we're gonna have to send them all out on a a world tour, maybe get the the black crows to open for them.

[A]

Oh, good. Yeah.

[C]

But regardless, Lori Boyer, director of content with Easy Post, also host of the great podcast Unboxing Logistics Lord, thanks for being here today.

[A]

Thank you for having me. It's been fantastic. I wish we had another hour.

[C]

Me too. We're making that happen. And Tavern E. Taylor, really appreciate all of your insights here and expertise as well as the great things you're doing out in the industry. Thanks for being here, Tevin.

[D]

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

[C]

We love hearing from you. Big thanks for tuning in, but y' all know you've got homework and Lori brought man goodness. I got seven pages of notes over here. Actionable key takeaways. You got to take one. Just one thing from Lori or Tevin here today. Put it in action. Tell it with your team. Scream it, preach it, shout it from the mountaintops. We got a lot of change that we got to do in this industry. So with all that said, and we know that deeds not words is the only way we'll change it. But with all that said, on behalf the whole team here at Supply Chain Now, Scott Luden challenge you do good. Give forward. Be the change that's needed. We'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

[B]

Join the Supply Chain now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supply chain now dot com, subscribe to supply chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to supply chain. Now, wherever you get your podcasts.