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I was a director at a young age and somebody said to me is it must be so nice to be a woman of color right now. I was like seriously? And it just took away everything that I worked so hard for. But you know, you have to understand, I mean everyone here is always merit based. I never ever believed that, you know, anyone's just promoted because they taking a box. But by having those kind of comments really takes us a step back.
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Welcome to Supply Chain now the number one voice of Supply Chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership.
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From across the globe.
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One conversation at a time.
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Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be. Scott Luton back with you here on Supply Chain now. Welcome to today's show folks. We have an intriguing show teed up here today. We're going to be diving into the extraordinary journey of a supply chain and business leader that has overcome tremendous challenges in her journey. We're going to be sharing her critical lessons learned that will undoubtedly offer you actionable leadership and career advancement perspective. We're also going to be talking about the immense opportunity that supplier diversification poses to organizations across industry. All of that and much, much more, folks. Stick around for a great conversation that's going to be offering up tons of of actionable insights by the truckload. So let's welcome in our wonderful guest here today, repeat guest. Great to have her back. Lushnta Naidu is managing director of the European supplier diversity program, aka the ESTP. Now after spending almost 15 years in supply chain leadership positions at Unilever, Lushyntha took on the managing director role at estp. Now what is that you ask? Well, it's a nonprofit organization based in the Netherlands that focuses on closing socioeconomic gaps across Europe in powerful outcomes focused ways. Luciantha, so nice to have you back with us here today. How you doing?
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I'm good, Scott. Thanks for having me back. It's been a few months now and really great to be back with Supply Chain now. So thank you.
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C
Well, it has been I had to go through your rock and roll agent because I know you stay busy traveling the world and doing big things. But we had such a wonder time and such a wonderful learning experience when you and Melanie Salter with Boom and my esteemed co host Karin Bursa joined us on a an edition of the Bridge, our monthly webinar series really focused on on challenging leaders to lean into innovative new strategies. And I tell you Lucy, we could have st. We could. That could have been a six hour webinar and and there's so much of your story we didn't get to. And that's really what gave us a great call to action to rejoin you here today and welcome you back in and, and dive more into your story that I think it's going to offer up a lot of actionable. Again, it's all about action. You know, it's not good enough to hear a great story and hear lessons learned. We want to act on them. Is that right?
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Absolutely.
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So let's do this though folks know me by now. I love starting with more of a fun warm up question and getting to know people a little bit more before we get into their story. I knew this already about you. You love to. And you don't just love it, you do it. And you were telling us about an incredible trip to Easter island lucyntha a couple years ago. Tell us more about that great trip.
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Well, it was one of my bucket list items and if anyone knows me, I'm like, all about action, just like you said. And I was like, I wanted to do this trip from the time I was a child. I just remember watching documentaries with my dad and being like, I want to see this place one day. But I didn't want to do it. When I retired, I was like. And I decided to take a sabbatical. It was in this part of my career where I was like, okay, where to next? It was a pivotal moment for me and I had planned this trip to South America. Started in Lima, made my way down by bus to Chile. And this. I was on the first flight, post lockdown, post Covid to go to Easter Island. And it was quite an experience because it was so isolated, whereas the world had moved on and opened up. We were the first ones there and they were like, oh, you should come here with your muck. And I was like, going back in time. But it is such a spiritual place and so inspiring because it's a small island in the middle of nowhere and you see these incredible. They are gigantic. And we're saying there's so many theories about how they got there, but for me it was such an achievement because I always had these dreams and I, I was. We'll get into my story. But I was born in a where there was a time of no hope. And these were the things, these dreams that I was building for myself. And it was emotional being there because I was making it happen for myself against the odds. I gotta be there.
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C
So you mentioned one before we get to your story, you mentioned the moai. Did I pronounce that right Moai. And that's I'm cheating over here with some background on Easter Island. But what she's talking about there, folks viewing or listening, is there's over a thousand of these iconic statues called the Moai that we're still figuring out. And you've seen them. You may not think you've seen them, but you've seen them. And modern day scientists and anthropologists are still trying to figure out how folks back then were able to build and then move these statues. Because they're in many ways lashinta, they're like lined up. So they weren't just built, but they had to be moved and like organized. Is that right?
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Exactly. Facing a certain direction. Some didn't make it all the way to the sea. So you see some just lying on the hills and it's just incredible. But it just shows you like nothing's impossible.
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C
Nothing's impossible. That is right. What a great early T shirt ism to get out of this conversation. And I'll tell you, it's very similar, folks, to, you know, we're still trying to figure out the pyramids and especially the Great Pyramid and how that was constructed. A very similar challenge are very similar mysteries as it relates to Easter island and the, the iconic Moai. Okay, so Lucinta, we have got so much to get into here today. You mentioned, you referenced on the webinar back in March and again here just a moment about your very unique and challenging earlier chapter of your journey. So I want to dive into that more. So tell us, how did growing up during apartheid in South Africa impact your story and your perspective and really the rest of your journey?
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Certainly it's definitely defined who I am. But let me just explain what apartheid is to people who are not aware of it. It is a system institutionized on racial segregation. But what does that mean? Because most people think it's like, oh, it's just a divide between black and white. But it goes so much deeper than that because we're all not just black and white. And within black we had the African race, the Indian race, and a race defined through colonization called colored, which is mixed race, like Trevor Noah. But we were divided within our races. So I grew up and my, you can see my ethnicity is Indian. I'm proudly South African, but my bloodline goes back to the 1800s when the British brought back then cheap labor or slash slaves back to South Africa to work on the East. And my bladder never changed because we were always kept in the same community. So I went to school with Kids who looked like me, my family married with the race. And just it was that way until like the early 90s. And when I tell people I grew up this way, they like, this is like a long time ago. I'm like, no, this ended in 1994.
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C
Wow.
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So your education level. I'm the first generation that could have a tertiary education. Pretty much had my life defined ahead of me as I was passionate about the environment, but my dad was like, nope, you either become a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant, engineer. My brother being the engineer is like, don't become an engineer. But I think I was meant to be an engineer. So I followed actually the, the accounting route and made my way into supply chain. And because I love being on factories. But that experience is. Everyone asked me like, you know, do you wish that you were born somewhere else? And yeah, I think being born in Europe, you have a bit of a golden ticket with the passport. But I wouldn't change anything in my life because it's got me to where I am today. The level of determination, because nothing was ever handed to me. I don't believe in the word self made because there's always a community that's supporting you along the way. And I always say, choice is a privilege. So now I'm in a position where I can choose where. When I lived my life, I had the most incredible but also the most harsh experiences of being bullied just because of the color of my skin. And I didn't understand it. Who sits down and explains racism to a kid? But it just spurred me on. And the way I could silence my critics was through education, was through topping my class because everyone was like, whoa, this kid shouldn't be the smart one. But it only then made me more and more determined. I was like, ah, I see this. Education is a way out. So from the age of six years old, that was my goal, was to have the best education, whether we got scholarships or bursaries, to get into good universities and schools. And yeah, when, whenever the opportunity arose, I was like, I'll take it. Got into Unilever, into the graduate program, and that was one of the best graduate programs. Unilever is one of the top employees in South Africa. And it was an emotional one for me because my grandfather was a tea packer for one of the Unilever brands.
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C
Oh, wow.
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So I was like to get into a management role when my grandfather was back in the day manually packing tea in the boxes. So I was like, yeah, this is one I want to go. And doors kept opening up and they like, do you want to go here? Do you want to go here? And I was like, I'll do it.
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C
Yeah. So let me lash into fascinating already. I got a thousand questions, but I want to go back for a second. We're going to talk about your professional journey in just a second. But so much you said. There one thing that really stuck out in the first part of your response, and this sticks with me as a father, that of three kids, two daughters, one son. And if, if I do anything, this life, I want to provide my kids the opportunity to do what they want to do, not to do what, as you said, where your life was defined for you. That breaks my heart. So if you would just elaborate a little bit more, especially how maybe with your children you want to do anything but define their life for them. Would you speak to that for a second?
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Yeah, sure. I mean, listen, it took me a long time to understand it, but I'm so grateful that my dad put me in that direction because he knew that was a way out, to have a better life as he saw it. I see now a better life differently. But he laid that foundation for me to eventually get to a point where I could choose who I am now. I don't have any children and I don't want any children. But for my niece and nephew, anyone is in that position, I am doing the work that I do now in order to create opportunities so that no one else is in this position.
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C
Love that. So connecting the dots then. So your father helped you understand that education, as you said it later, education is how you could silence your critics. Education was your pass out. Education was your ability to find career, success and self fulfillment and all the wonderful rewards in life. So. So folks, if you're listening or if you're watching out there, if you ever have doubted the incredible importance of daily education, man, Luciantha is giving us a lesson, a very tangible lesson. When you say apartheid. For many folks, one of the legendary historical figures that may come to our minds is of course, Nelson Mandela. When I was in Cape Town in June, my dear friend Jacobus toured me around a little bit. And one of the places he took me was the hotel balcony where when Nelson Mandela was released from prison, he really didn't just address his country and all the population, he was really addressing the whole world. If you would, Lachinta, when you, when you go back to that moment, describe what took place and what followed when Nelson Mandela was released from prison.
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Well, I was quite young when he was released, was 1990, but I definitely Remember the day he became president. And it was also the day my life changed, because then all these opportunities happen. I'm like my dad saying, like, yeah, things gonna change. My parents were like, we don't know what's coming, but it's gonna be different. And you could just feel an energy. I was 8 years old at the time, and I was in school, and it was just celebration. There was celebration on the streets. And it's the most united I've ever felt my country, about probably a year later, when we won the Rugby World cup, which is from the. You may be familiar with the movie Invictus, but I, when I watched that, I was like, I remember that feeling. It's just like this. Unite. How united. And the best word I could say is hope. Hope for change. And it was magic even to be. To listen to him. You could hear him speak. It's probably once in a lifetime leaders that you come across. And I'm hoping that with everything going on in the world, we see more leaders like that come up. It was a privilege to have grown up as him, as the leader of our country, undoubtedly.
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C
And you are so right. Every so often and very infrequently, these leaders come along that can. It's a mixture, and it's tough for me to kind of put my finger on it. It's a mixture of, like, their disposition, their charisma, how they can communicate without even saying a word, and probably the change they represent, which is a big part of that. And, and gosh, I wish. I wish I could have experienced it. Even if you were 8 years old when it happened, I bet it was a, as you said, a magical time. So before we move into your time at Unilever and much, much more, we've covered a lot of ground from those earliest of days, and we've already gotten a couple of your critical lessons learned. Like we were talking about education a moment ago. But what's one or two critical ways that those early experiences continue to shape your leadership philosophy today? Lucida?
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Absolutely. But just to build on the previous one for people don't know this, and at least to. What I'm going to say is Nelson Mandela spent 27 years in his life fighting for freedom, and he came out a changed man. And I mean, one of the most important philosophies in South Africa is Ubuntu. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it when you went to South Africa, but it is a philosophy that humanity is a plural, not a singular. And it means, basically, I Am because we are. And that for me is my way of leadership. Having someone who sacrificed so much for themselves, for the rest of the world, the country to have a better life, for freedom. And it's something, as I said earlier, there's no such thing as self made. It's about community and whether I was at Unilever, now at Estepace. The most important thing is community is helping each other along the way. And that's the way I lead is it's more a servant leadership kind of mindset which I've experienced through the leaders around me and truly believe in supporting each other through the journey.
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All right, lucid. Another T shirt ism. I love it and thank you so much for, for translating that word. I am because we are and how humanity is plural, not singular. I love that if the more we.
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All apply that I truly believe, and I'm very beating to say I truly believe the world will be a better place.
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No doubt, man. Okay, you mentioned earlier your grandfather was a tea packer at Unilever and one of the world's most admired companies, I believe. Let's see, you spent 14 years there. If I, if I've got that right. At one of the world's again most admired brands. What were a few of your roles and highlights of your time there at Unilever?
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There's so many. So during that time I lived and worked in seven countries, five continents. And I actually I started off in finance because I was like, okay, didn't want to be the doctor, the lawyer, I want to be the engineer. But I decided to go to the finance route, start off my career in finance. Nuts. But I was like, I think I've come alive when I, when I'm on a factory floor early in the morning watching the lines going up and going. So when they gave me the opportunity to become a supply chain consultant, I was like, yeah, I'll move to Switzerland. I'll go there. Don't know much about supply chain, but I'm willing to learn. And I think that's been the key to my success is to be, hey, I don't know everything I am, but I'm open minded, I want to learn. And it got me to where I am today. So became a supply chain, internal supply chain consultant. Learned my way around the factories, earned the respect. But I truly love transformation. That's my mind. Bread and butter and people. I want to do anything that has a positive impact on people. And I actually came across, I mean I was working on a transformation project for Europe and it was A tough one because it meant we had closed factories. And I was like, I don't want to do this. I do not have it in me. I cannot go to sleep if we're doing this. But the leader at that time, who had a huge, profound impact on my career, she was like, I know it's hard, but you're the right person to do this because you care. And that resonated with me. I was like. She's like, I know you will always do the right thing. And this is also one of the projects where I was in one of the most diverse teams. And yeah, you have the storming and norming of forming teams, but when that power of diversity comes through, and what I mean by diversity is not everyone looks like me. It was all women. It's diversity of thought. It's having a team with everyone with different backgrounds contributing to this common goal and challenging each other, but putting the ego aside and saying, oh, that's a good point. And yeah, we had to close factories, but the challenge was like, how do we save jobs? It was in one of the poorest part of Italy, so south of Italy, and we worked with the government, with universities, and we said, we know, yes, we were about mass production, technologies, change, what can we do to save these jobs? And it actually came up to be a circular economy project where we worked with the government. And this is where my accounting background came into play. And I was like, ah, we can be smart about this and apply this within the rules and governance. And we managed to turn a home care site, so like dishwashing liquid fabric conditioner site to a plastic recycling site and managed to save about like 90% of those jobs. And that was just pure creativity, thinking out of the box. And this is why I'm such an advocate for diversity, because if we all thought the same, we could not have got there. So it was people from all different backgrounds, different walks of life, and we made that happen. And I still reflect back on my career and I'm like, wow, that was incredible. I am so proud to be part of that.
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C
Oh, my gosh, so many questions, so little time. I want to start, though. I love your enthusiasm and your. Because I've got kindred spirits with you, Your value and the importance you place on the factory floor. And the incredible people that are so talented and are the true experts in how business and value is created. There's a reason why going to the Gemba became something. And folks, if you've never. First off, many folks listening or viewing, you know what I'm talking about. Right. But for folks that maybe have had front office careers and you've never ventured down to the factory floors or warehouse four floors or the fulfillment centers, despite all the automation these days, it's still. People still drive industry forward and it's amazing what they do. To Lashinta's point. And one other thing I'll touch on before I want to dive a little deeper into your passion for all things diversity and much, much more is the importance of caring. That's an interesting eureka moment because until you shared that, until that leader shared that with you, what it took my brain to is, is it's a superpower. Yeah, you've got to do a tough thing. Right that no one wants to do. Right. But because you care so much, and this is. I'm not going to put words in your mouth, but because you care so much, it fuels innovation and a desire and a tangible desire to explore any way possible that we can save as many jobs. And clearly it converted. You saved almost 90% of jobs that initially were going to be lost. Lashanta talk just one more minute about the. That superpower of caring.
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A
I have to admit it was taxing. There were many sleepless nights, but it was all worth it. And I think it comes through my upbringing, having felt that way, having my own imposter syndrome from that, and it made me more empathetic and compassionate. And I think one of the challenges I had is especially as a woman and a woman of color, you always put in a box and it's like, you have to be this way as a leader. And I look up to role models, as, you know, Nelson Mandela, Jacinda Arden, who are like, no, I. I am a compassionate human being and I can lead. They're not mutually exclusive.
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C
Right.
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How do we combine that and that being your authentic self. So it took me a long time in my career to get there because everyone was like, okay, you are, you're progressing, but you need to be this way. You need to be more aggressive. I'm like, that's not who I am. How can I lead my way? And it took some time to actually get there. And yeah, this is true to who I am. And it's important to me to be a compassionate leader.
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C
And along the same lines, these experiences, some that you're mentioning and some probably won't be able to get to, helped further your passion for diversity, equity and inclusion as well. Would you touch on that?
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A
Absolutely. As I said, it's like working with those teams, you know, and creating the leader that I mentioned she created a psychologically psychological safe environment. And that for me is the groundwork for diversity and inclusion equity to flourish. And that's super important in teams. And also led me to a point where I was like, I'm getting so much energy because my day job was transformational supply chain leader. And on top of that, I also led co led the erg, the employee resource group for women. Yeah, I like to keep myself busy, but that was like on top of my day job. And we made so much progress with this. And I was like, try to marry the two and lead the supply chain AI strategy. We managed to. Because as much as I love being on the factory floor, I mean if you meet me in person, you'll see I'm pint size. I'm a size 37 shoes, extra small coat. When I went to the factory, I was wearing these men's overalls with these big shoes and I'm like. And people say, oh, we don't have enough women on the on the factory floor. I was like, how do you create this environment for women to actually want to join? And drove that and managed to increase our gender diversity in in supply chain by 5% in one year. And we achieved that. I was like, oh, I'm onto something here. And this was together where ERGs were partnering with Boo Melanie Selta. And that's when we started something. And it was like, I get so much energy from this. I actually secretly wanted to make it a my full time job. And here I am today because I truly believe in it. I truly believe in making an impact wherever we are on people, no matter where you're from or what your background is.
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C
Love that. Wow. I hate to move along to the next part of your journey, but for the sake of time, we should. Because after 14 successful years, game changing years at Unilever, you transitioned to a powerful nonprofit which we're going to touch on in a second. So walking away from that senior corporate role, that where you're driving transformation which became one of your passions. And you, you made this change, I think during COVID big bold move. What emboldened your decision to join the ESTP movement?
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I think this was something that was more brewing inside me when I was in Unilever because I enjoyed my day job. But I was like, oh, I was planning more and more projects how I could drive this and impact this. And actually I had a serious accident. I had a ice skating accident. Was a really cold winter here in Amsterdam and the canals were frozen. And I was like, I'll Be like the Dodge, I'm going to go ice skating. And here we don't even cycle without helmets on. So I went ice skating without any headgear and someone wiped me out and had a very serious concussion.
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C
Oh my God.
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Wiped me out for a good couple months. And it made me really reflective about life and what I want to be doing. And I said, well, I want to be living my purpose. And live my purpose is stems from having this difficult background. And I was like, how can I have any? I've had this incredible lived experience growing up in apartheid South Africa. I had someone and no way am I close to Minalfa Mandela, but had someone sacrifice their life to make the world a better place. And we each can do a little at a time. And this was my way to say in this part of my life I want to have something more impact. And I know I'm strong in structure and operations and I had a very reflective period of which was Covid. And I said, okay, I'm gonna take the brave mood. I've had 14 and a half years, incredible career at Unilever. And Unilever is a place where it just, you can do anything you want if you actually dedicate. And I learned so much. And I was, how can I take this experience and merge the two passions of DEI and supply chain? And had no next steps. I just came back from my sabbatical, I told you about when I was in South America and I was like, came back and I said, okay, I'm going to leave, I'm going to do something else. And people said, you're turning away your career. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm going to start something and I'm going to do it. And I just had this incredible self belief. And yeah, my last week at Unilever, I had gone to a friend had invited me to an ESTP networking event. And I was like, I love the energy in the room. I was like, this is just diversity all around and some of the conversations I'm having. And this is going to be a movement, I want to be a part of it. And yeah, here I am two or two years later.
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C
Wow. Loving life, loving what you're doing, loving the challenge, I bet. And you're moving mountains, which we're going to touch on here in a second. Quite a movement. So I gotta, I want to purposefully ask you this follow up question. So in light of, in light of that whole how you made the decision from the concussion, which really gave you a much different view on life and where you wanted to invest the rest of your life to where you are now. What's one piece of advice you'd give those corporate leaders who also can feel torn between career security and that purpose driven impact they want to make at some point in their time on this earth?
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A
Listen, I was the extreme example where I was like, as I mentioned, I don't have a family, so I had that liberty of just jumping. But you don't have to go and do something, take a 180 degree to make an impact. It's starting small. What can you do with your teams and within the organization, supporting ergs, being involved in DI boards, sticking up for what you believe is right. Those are the small things. That's what my journey started on. And I was like, I made the decision to go there to fully dedicate my career to that. But the point I touched on earlier is I would love to see more psychological safety in the workplace because that opens up more and that's what leadership is. This is what you can create. Starting with those small steps, encouraging your team to be their authentic selves. Because the hardest part of my career was in my 20s where I was wearing different masks. And if you knew how difficult that is, how much energy it takes trying to be somebody else. Because I was tired of being othered. So think about that in your teens. You know, if everyone could just bring 100% of the energy of just themselves, what can you do to create that environment so that they can do so?
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C
I love that. Lachintha. And that reminds me of the one element of our webinar conversation on the bridge a couple months back where we talked about, and I think it was Melan that talked about being a pretzel. And you know, when folks feel those pressures that you're. You're speaking of, they can pretzel themselves up into the versions that the organization wants you or expects rather than, to your point, be 100% yourself. And I tell you that what you're describing and with that moment on that webinar brought such a eureka moment to me because I instantly empathized with folks out there that are acting on those pressures. And gosh, you go through a whole day in a workplace and an environment and you're not able to be who you are. I can't imagine the pressure and the pain. And on top of that, you got to do a job that can oftentimes be really tough. So Lachenta, I think that's billion dollar advice, not just to those folks out there that don't want. Want to be all pretzeled up, as Melanie would talk about. But more importantly, perhaps to those leaders that are cultivating purposeful cultures, we've got to do better, and we got to not expect that contortionist element to be at play, huh?
- [32:18]
A
Exactly. And it's having representation, your teams, whether it's women, diversity, lgbtqi, minorities, because, I mean, there was so much time spent on. I think Melanie also touched on this. Like, being part of the pretzel is like, deciding, okay, how will I dress for this meeting so that it doesn't come across the wrong way? How do I present myself? Because I've had so many experiences, where it was. Was difficult for me as a young woman. I was like, what did I do to have that experience? I don't want to get into that now. But this is what women go through is, like, you don't feel comfortable to wear you. Sometimes I would wear a collared shirt up here, so there would be no comments afterwards from the boys club, but that's what we had to go through.
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C
Oh, my gosh.
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A
And when I started seeing more women on board and leadership, those. Those comments would go away. But it's difficult when you're starting your career, and you have to deal with that. You see, as the last time, Mel and I were matching with the pink, but I'm like, I love pink. It's one of my favorite colors. And. But where that, in effect, you see how you achieve. I'm like, no, I'm gonna be who I am.
- [33:30]
C
And. And we're all better off because you are Lachantha. And I tell you, there's a. There's a full force multiplier effect. I believe. My personal belief is the more folks can be who they are out across industry. Oh, gosh. That unlocks so much value on so many different levels, and that maybe that's what we can all aspire to do. But I want to shift gears, because I think it'd be helpful for our audience to better understand the nonprofit organization that. That you're leading. Esdp. And again, folks, that stands. We love our acronyms. That stands for the European Supplier Diversity Program. So let's start with the basics. What does the organization do, and why is its purpose and mission so important?
- [34:15]
A
So I think you explained it quite well when you open. I was quite impressed by that, Scott, so thank you. And then the intention of this organization, why I was drawn to it, is I knew how difficult it was for me. As I said, I traveled the world. I wasn't Running away from South Africa, I just wanted adventure and experience a new culture. It just makes you richer as a person when you have these different experiences. And yeah, I ended up in Europe, but it felt like I was starting from scratch when I moved here because I had no network, no one knew who I was. And I also had my own imposter syndrome because growing up in a developing country, you always think that the west is best and doubt yourself. And I really had known it. No one knew who I was. And they also said, oh, I would have comments. Oh, you studied in South Africa. You didn't study here. Questions about my qualifications. And I was like, what? And I worked three times as hard as everyone else to prove my worth. And yeah, that's something that I felt that I needed to do, but that was the only way I was making progress. Now I know, okay, I'm bloody damn good at what I do. But when you're building up your career and you see that, hey, you get questions on more things. There's the unconscious buyers. And it's similar for the suppliers of estp. What we do at ESTP is we create a network of suppliers and help them connect with large corporates who are members of ESTP and pay a membership fee. We create a database of suppliers and we connect the two. So we bridge that gap. Basically what we're doing is trying to build equity so no one has to keep working three times as hard to actually have that first knock on the door. And that's what I wish I also had was some sort of network. And that's what we bring. We create business opportunities through events, whether it's virtual pitching, face to face events, conferences. And we're just. That bridge, at the end of the day is after the corporate buyer if they want to work with that supplier. We're just opening up the playing field. And the question is, why would this buyer would want to work with a supplier? Because I'll be very clear, what we're doing is not charity work. We are a nonprofit. We are trying to build equity because I strongly believe in a fair playing field.
- [36:49]
C
Right.
- [36:50]
A
These suppliers will want to work with these suppliers because as I said, it's the diversity they bring through innovation, creativity. And it's not about being a diverse supplier, but it's having that another funnel of these creative, diverse suppliers. The example I'll give you is when I worked at Unilever and then we had, in one year, it was incredible. We had Brexit, we had Covid, we had the war in Ukraine and we were sourcing. I mean this is what we did with a globalized model sourcing from Russia and the next thing you know, hey, you can't source from Russia anymore. We had to switch on our agile supply chain as quick as possible. But we didn't have this pipeline of small suppliers. And that's what you realize, hey, you need resilience in your supply chain. And this is what small agile suppliers can bring is the agility, is the speed to move with the innovations that you have. And there's so much value in that. And every supply chain needs that. So that's what we are offering. So we are one of many advocacy groups around the world. The equivalent of us is NMSDC in the US we bank for women owned businesses and yeah, it's for all minority groups. But at the end of the day it's about having a supplier database for the corporates to work with.
- [38:16]
C
I love it. Powering opportunities but also powering innovation success for really global supply chain. So ESTP now certifies over 500 ethnic minority suppliers across multiple countries. That is fascinating. I want to move along to giving us a memorable success story where a minority supplier gained real traction or a new contract even directly because of the great work you're doing at esdp. What's an example or two? Lashinta sure.
- [38:49]
A
Well let me correct you there. So we have a database of 500 suppliers and we are certified as 52 at the moment. And then we have self registered and identified. So we do have the largest ethnic minority database in the EU which is pretty impressive considering we've been about around for like 19 months. It's been a lot of work to get that off the ground. That what you said is when we have these success stories it makes what we do worth it because you know like when they come, I mean this is what we're trying to do. Success for ESTP is for suppliers to win contracts or make some movement. And there's so many stories but the most recent one was a couple weeks ago I worked with a supplier where she was on the verge of giving up. It's been hard just everyone and she joined one of the mentorship programs for that our corporates were offering. And she's like it just gave up new hope, you know to keep going because the mentor she had were so incredible that now she's actually she's gaining ground with her business. But nine months ago when she joined it she was like do I call it quits? You know so when we met for coffee cup will be scarred she was like, thank you, you kept our business keep going. Not because she won a contract, but she could hear now from a buyer saying, hey, actually your business idea is something that we actually need. So they're in discussion about a contract, but those are things that warms me on.
- [40:21]
C
I love it. And gosh, the progress y' all have made. And if I heard you write 19 months since the formal mission was established, you're advocating on behalf of what, hundreds of companies and suppliers out there, I would say, and, and, and informal ways. And informal ways. And in the example you shared, you never know as an entrepreneur that really, that really resonates with me because we all have the ups and downs and sometimes in the downs, you need just that, that moment that the universe or the good Lord or whatever you believe provides that keeps your spirit going and keeps you in the fight. And I love that moment. I can't wait to hear what wins that that leader gets because she kept going. And I gotta tell you over the weekend, and we're recording this on the 26th of August, and just last weekend, Tommy Fleetwood, he's a golfer Lashinta, and he didn't win in his first 163 PGA golf tournaments. And he had some tough losses. He was leading late and, and just got beat in that final round. And I saw some of those post game interviews and, and he just marched on. He was able to kind of gather himself and, and finally over the weekend on his 164th try, he won a big tournament and we, I think the golf world celebrated with him because in my view, there's so many business parallels there. It goes back to your story. We need advocates and we need supporters that don't just celebrate and support in the good times, but more importantly, when. To your point, this has been a tough year for so many people. We need those folks that have our back and are pushing us forward in the tough times too. And it sounds like that's a big part of the mission there at estp. Is that right, Lucinta?
- [42:14]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely. And our slogan at ESTP is actually is when everyone is included, everyone wins. And that's. And that's the thing. It's not about helping one group and excluding the other. It's like, how do we open up the table so everyone can compete for this contract? You know, And I feel on the other side, the corporate side, no one does charity work and be like, oh, I'm just going to help the supply out. No, it's the best supplier wins. We're just bringing more Suppliers to the. To the table.
- [42:47]
C
That's right.
- [42:48]
A
And you know what? If once we need to keep pushing each other so there's nothing, there's no harm with more competition.
- [42:53]
C
No, competition's good for so many different reasons. It makes us better. When you lose a business opportunity, it gives you a chance to do a postmortem and figure out how you can get better when you win. Of course, you analyze that, too.
- [43:06]
A
One thing I didn't add actually, is it's more than just building the business connections. A big passion of mine, as you know as my story, is education. So we have a. We call the IPA the Inclusive Procurement Academy, where we've actually invited all small and diverse suppliers, no matter what your background, to actually learn how to be corporate ready by teaching them how to pitch, how to network storytelling. So it's open to about 500 suppliers across Europe. And we started off with just ESTP and another organization in the UK, and we're like, listen, we truly stand for. What we're saying is when everyone's included, everyone wins. So we opened it up and all small businesses were invited to it.
- [43:54]
C
Love it. The ipa. The income.
- [43:57]
A
Not the beer.
- [43:58]
C
Not the beer. You beat me to it. Maybe you go through the IPA and enjoy an IPA at the end of the day. I don't know. Let's. Let's do this. Before we ask you about what's next for esdp, I want to just pick up on something you shared that was a learning opportunity, learning moment for me back on our last discussion, and that's inclusivity. A moment ago you were talking about Lashinta about one of the things you mentioned is kind of including everybody, not leaving anybody behind. And I think so often folks get wrapped up around the axle and focused on the diversity side of things, which is important. But by focusing so much there, we kind of forget about the inclusivity, which is so different and has its own tremendous unique value. And, and plus, it's, it's, it's an important one right now because it's, it impacts our current work family, our current organization. And you and I both probably have experienced moments in our journeys where we weren't included in certain conversations or events or whatever. And folks, as many of you all know, maybe had similar experiences. That's an awful, awful feeling to have. So think about that as we think about what. In some circles, you know, when you, when you see certain things that, that have been spoken to a thousand times, it can be cliche, but when you get down to what it really means, and the importance of it, it really, I think changes your perspective. Your quick comment there, Luciana.
- [45:27]
A
Yeah, And I said once you've been othered excluded, it's not a nice feeling and you don't want anyone to be going through that. And I see diversity as the seeds, but inclusion as the water. You can't do one without the other because then diversity, you're just ticking a box and you truly don't care about, hey, the power of diversity, which is the diversity of thought. You need to have the inclusion. And I go back to creating the psychological safe environment, understanding what does inclusion mean here. I truly believe you can't be what you can't see. And it's having representation there too. And the worst thing said to me is in my career because I moved up quite quickly. I was a director at a young age and somebody said to me is it must be so nice to be a woman of color right now. I was like, seriously? And it just took away everything that I worked so hard for. But you know, you have to understand, I mean, everyone here is always merit based. I never ever believed that, you know, oh, anyone's just promoted because they ticking a box. But by having those kind of comments really takes a step back. It helped me so much and it made me even work harder to a point where I was like, actually no, I know I'm good at what I do, but I don't want to be having those discussions about, oh, it should always be merit based, but it doesn't mean that you don't have people from different backgrounds that are not deserving of those jobs. And that's where I think the conversation's getting so muddied. But we need to move away from that and say like, hey, but how do we measure merit? That's the big thing. It's that yardstick that we need to look at because everyone has their own strengths. Like example, as I said about compassion, you know, that was, oh, leadership should be more aggressive. But compassion for me is a superpower.
- [47:27]
C
As it should be. And I wish more folks shared that superpower. Maybe they will. Maybe we can find ways of developing compassion and care and the need to act and advocate for others. Let's make sure. So folks, you can learn more about esdp@esdp.org eu. We'll include that link in the show notes. But one thing, give me one thing that you're excited about in terms of what's next for estp Lantha.
- [47:56]
A
Well, it's been a tough journey. Yes. Last year we were just booming and Then this year I was like had the, the oxygen sucked out of me because every day I feel like the world is changing. It's probably the, the fastest or eight that the world is changing. So we don't know what's next. But I truly believe in Ubuntu and supporting each other. We set up ESDP against the odds because it's so many challenges here because we can actually talk about races openly as you used to in the U.S. we also have GDPR, which is the data protection regulation. So we're always navigating around it. But as you can tell after two conversations with me, I'm quite determined. So we keep going against the adversity. We still want to expand so we self register across the whole of the eu. We certify currently in France, Germany and the Netherlands. And yes, the EU is also moving to the far right, but we keep going. We do everything within the law and we want to expand to formal countries. So Spain, Italy, Belgium, Ireland, that's part of the plan. And continue with supplier development in terms of education. So yeah, a lot in the cards.
- [49:17]
C
A lot, man, I love it. All right, so got a couple final questions before we wrap up with Luciantha Naidu here. A moment ago we were talking about words and phrases we hear all the time. And they can create misinterpretations and, and in some cases backlash. But at the heart of them, such as D E, N I or dei, it really is a can be a power, a force for good. So I want to ask you with. With DEI programs increasingly under review in different parts of the world, what real tangible strategies have you seen work really well for companies that do the opposite? They're doubling down on those efforts, not cutting back. Give me an example or two of where you've seen that work really well.
- [50:04]
A
There's, if you look at all the corporate members that are supporting escp, there's some that have fallen away, but the ones that are with us are true to their values. And I see it comes down to senior leadership. If it's in the DNA of the company, it doesn't matter what's happening in the world. If people understand the why, why it's important rather. And I think this is where communication got blurried around the why and it's around education and awareness and find a way to do DI where others are not feeling excluded. You know, I think that's when you become polarized, it starts at the top. And that would be my message to senior leaders here is this is where it's Your responsibility to be driving it in your company, whether it's. You have targets or not. I know that's a swear word these days, but what can you do within your teams and see what at the end of the day, you know, everyone's like, what's the business case for it? Try it. You'll know that it can only have positive impact on your business. By cutting it out, you're going to fall behind. So what's worked for us is explaining the why and putting these suppliers in front of our corporate members. And some of them just blows my mind at the creativity. I mean, we had a company, we had an innovation challenge for startups that two years ago almost when we started estp and it was a young lady from Costa Rica who saw the opportunities of coffee waste. She's taken, she's collected the coffee granules. You know, after you drink a cup of coffee. I don't know, I think the stat was like 90% of it gets wasted, goes to dump. What can you do with that? She's made coffee oil. She's made clothing, food. Wow, that was just an idea phase. She won one of the challenges last year, opened up her factory and now she's working with Lush Cosmetics, providing with the coffee oil. So when you hear that, you're like, that's, that's what it is. It's because she grew up in, in adversity in Costa Rica and she has this mindset of zero waste. It's coming here and it's changing things up. And those are the success stories I love. And when you show that to the businesses, they're like, wow, this is impressive.
- [52:30]
C
Love it.
- [52:30]
A
That's just one of the examples, is showing them the actual facts. Businesses that are changing the world love that example.
- [52:39]
C
Oh my gosh, tons of opportunities with just our daily activities with coffee. But you know what? I'd love to break it down in a very common sense approach. Get away. We should get away from all the cultural debates and the political debates. When I think of DEI Lashinta, I think it's some very simple things and it's all in the application execution and the communication. We all get that, right? But diversity, you've already shared numerous examples of how diversity of thought fuels innovation and fuel solutions to old and new problems. And we need that, right? I don't think there's any opponent to that equity. I think regularly, I have conversations regularly with, for example, women in my network, right. And they tell me stories of the compensation gaps between they have uncovered in their career, between what they Earned and what their male colleagues earn, counterparts earned. We got to fix that. And I think that's a very common sense approach. Right. And then inclusivity, this is not a political thing for me. Inclusivity. I think of my kids, they're all geared differently and I couldn't for a minute, just like I could, my colleagues here, supply chain now think that they would be outcast for a single minute because of who they are as people. And when I think, when I think of DEI in that lens and that common sense lens, who in the world would oppose that? Especially if there's bottom line business implications and gains. Luciantha, as we wrap here, respond to that and see if we share that common sense view. There's a whole bunch more to it. I know, but to me that is just level setting and why not do more of that?
- [54:19]
A
Exactly that. That's the essence of, you know, equity is, I mean, I learned so much over the years and it's, it again goes back to education and awareness. I, when I took the sabbatical, I also did my masterclass in DEI and I learned so much about disabilities. You know, like I, I would walk through the office and I was like, wait, but somebody in a wheelchair probably couldn't go here. How you know now when we have events, I mean, so inclusive. I learned so much about neurodiversity. And when I started the conversation pre recording, I said, it takes a lot of courage for me to talk about my story because it's very emotional for me. Even now when you're talking, it was. Sometimes tears come into my life. But I realized when I shared my story for the first time probably three, four years ago with the leadership team at Unilever, I had men come up to me afterwards and he said, I had no idea you experienced this. But now I'm more aware of this and can bring that to my team. And that's why I'm like, I share my story and I encourage people to go learn more rather than be like, oh, this is not for me. Because diversity is so much more than just gender and minorities. It's also age. You know, how do we make sure that everyone, you, you think about this and when you're a team, you know, and it's beautiful when it's successful.
- [55:49]
C
Yes, that's right. It's a very, we got to think of this so holistic. Holistically on so many different levels. I need another hour with you, Lachintha, and we'll have to make that happen soon. Maybe we get you and, and a Couple of your incredible innovative suppliers in your network come back with you. But two final questions for you. The first one is the bigger one you shared earlier in this conversation. Others we've had the importance of kind of that see it and be it right as we see folks in the leadership positions that we aspire to, how that can help fuel our journeys forward. So I want to ask you, for all those young Luciantha Naidus out there watching or listening to this conversation, they want to overcome adversity and challenges and setbacks and drive impact in purposeful ways like you have done. What would your top piece of advice be?
- [56:44]
A
Well, when I look back at my 8 year old self in 1994 and the one thing, even though I grew up in such an oppressive country, the one thing they couldn't take away from me was my dreams. And that was what fueled me. So to anyone that's out there, that's younger listening, dream big. Don't let go of those things. I am so grateful that now I sit in a position where I can choose. I'm eternally grateful for my parents who created this path. That was the, you know, that's what I say. It's a community that got me here. But dream big and be determined. Make it happen. You know, when I was sitting in Easter island looking at the incredible sky or full of stars over the Moai, I was like, I dreamt this. You know, I made it happen. And yeah, I overcame adversity. But you have to have something to look forward to. You have to dream big. And I still do.
- [57:48]
C
Oh, I love that. I love that. Don't give up on those dreams. And hey, those dreams got to evolve as you accomplish them, you got to build bigger aspirations because it is a journey with lots of finish lines that we need to stop and, and, and celebrate. But still it is a marathon and a journey. And I tell you, I've really enjoyed this conversation here today as much as I enjoyed your first appearance with us with Melanie Salter and Corinne Bursa and we look forward to having you back. So how can folks connect with you and the ESTP team that's on the move?
- [58:20]
A
Lashinta, connect with me on LinkedIn. Also you can. I'm happy to share my email address shantalestp-org EU if you want to learn more and listen, I always make time for education and awareness. I think once we clear things out, you know what they say about assumptions, but let's move away from assumptions, understand, have some empathy, happy to share what we're doing and how and more about the wine.
- [58:52]
C
I love it. Keep keep inspiring the rest of us and keep pushing the industry forward and creating opportunity for so many folks out there. Really enjoyed learning much more about your story here today. Big thanks Lushantha Naidu, Managing Director with the European Supplier Diversity Program, AKA the esdp. And as she mentioned, you can learn more at esdp. O R G EU Luchintha, always a pleasure. Thanks for being here.
- [59:24]
A
Thank you so much, Scott. I really enjoyed our conversation. So thank you for having me today.
- [59:29]
C
I can't wait to talk with you again folks. For our audience members out there, hope you enjoyed this frank and real and authentic and very actionable conversation. But you know, it all comes with homework. There's no such thing as free lunches. So I want to challenge you to take one thing you heard here from Luciantha's journey and her perspective and what she's doing to change industry for the better. And take one, just one thing at least. It's probably 17, but take one. Put into practice. Share it with your team. Y' all folks know it's all about deeds, not words. That's how we're going to keep transforming this global special industry that we like to call Supply Chain for the better and leave no one behind. So with all that said, on behalf the whole team here, Scott Luton, challenging all of our listeners. Hey, do good, give forward, be the change, be just like the Shinta. And I'll tell you, the world would be a much, much better place. And on that note, we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody.
- [60:28]
B
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