From Brownfield to Breakthrough: Evolving Your Operations with Retrofits

Summary

Supply Chain Now

Episode: From Brownfield to Breakthrough: Evolving Your Operations with Retrofits

Date: September 8, 2025
Guests:

• Will “Captain” Mansard, Director, Bastion Solutions
• Ahmed Arif, Vice President of Engineering, Bastion Solutions
• Deborah Dole, Co-host
• Hosted by Scott Luton

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the often-overlooked topic of warehouse retrofits—maximizing gains from existing brownfield facilities rather than building new ones. Industry experts Will Mansard and Ahmed Arif from Bastion Solutions join hosts Scott Luton and Deborah Dole to share practical guidance, candid examples, and innovative strategies for upgrading warehouse operations while minimizing disruption. With a mix of real-world best practices, memorable analogies, and actionable insights, the conversation looks at how orchestration, teamwork, and vision can turn challenges in brownfield sites into breakthrough results.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Retrofits vs. Greenfields: Setting the Stage

• Brownfield vs. Greenfield Explained:
  • Greenfield projects build from scratch—think “open pasture.”
  • Brownfield projects work within the constraints of an existing site—more complex but potentially more rewarding.
    • “Greenfield... you’re gonna build a building from scratch. Less constraints. ...Brownfield... retrofit or an expansion of an existing system. These are the harder projects, these are [the] ones where you gotta really think through it.” —Will Mansard (09:44)
• Industry context: Up to 40% of warehouse space in brownfields is underutilized, often due to outdated layouts and processes.

2. Understanding the Customer’s Challenge and Mindset

• Warehouse leaders are stretched thin—retrofit projects are extra effort on top of their daily firefighting.
• Time and bandwidth (not just money) are often the biggest barriers to upgrades.
• Analogy: Retrofitting is like car maintenance—wait too long and inconvenient repairs become critical.
  • “These warehouse retrofits and upgrades are no different than your car. Drive your car enough, you need to get oil changes... at some point it’s going to be a big enough of an inconvenience where you need to do something about it.” —Will Mansard (13:51)

3. Strategic Approach to Retrofits: Process and Mindset

• Ahmed’s Framework:
  • Understand the existing system (document or reverse-engineer flows).
  • Break the mechanical work into manageable, visual phases.
  • Pre-assemble and quick-connect electrical upgrades.
  • Plan software/controls integration thoroughly (test with emulation first).
  • Always have a contingency plan—orders MUST go out the door.
  • “The heart of any system is really the controls and software... companies are now moving into emulation.” —Ahmed Arif (15:53)
• “Rule number one, make sure orders go out the door. Rule number two, make sure orders go out the door.” —Ahmed Arif (17:16)
• Deborah Dole’s analogy: Retrofitting is like “open heart surgery”—the patient (system) needs to keep running while it’s improved. (19:13)

4. Constructive Dissatisfaction & The ‘Cost of Doing Nothing’

• Focus on the right problem to solve, not just adding technology for technology’s sake.
• Regularly ask: What does it cost us if we leave things as-is for another 18–24 months?
• “It’s not really the cost of doing nothing today. It’s about the cost of doing nothing 18 months or two years from now… If we want to be in a different state two years from now, we’ve got to be thinking about that today.” —Deborah Dole, Key Takeaway (49:22, 50:31)
• “Cost becomes just a necessity to solve the problem... What's the cost of doing nothing?” —Will Mansard (12:26, 49:22)

5. The Art of Orchestration: Integration is Everything

• Orchestration—bringing disparate automation, controls, and IT together—is key to successful retrofits.
• “Orchestration is the secret sauce of automation... It’s all about the equipment, it’s about the software, it’s about the controls and does it seamlessly work together for the client's business. And that's where automation gets a bad rap—you get hiccups... bottlenecks... excessive exception handling.” —Ahmed Arif (20:23)
• Newer buyers want to rush; experienced buyers insist on sweating the details.

6. 4-Step Framework for Retrofit Projects

Will Mansard’s approach:

1. Discovery: Walk the floor, study constraints, collect data, and understand the North Star.
2. Define Objectives: Clarify what a successful outcome looks like.
3. Solutioning: Consider a range of solutions; automation isn’t always the answer.
4. Implementation Plan: Meticulous phasing to avoid disrupting ongoing operations.

• “That implementation plan... requires probably the most thought and the most time... There's going to be some disruption. But we got to make sure we understand what we absolutely must do and we deliver on that.” —Will Mansard (23:00–24:52)

7. Real-World Case Examples

• Case 1: Pharmaceutical Warehouse Overhaul
  • Massive, densely packed warehouse; no space for new systems.
  • Phased project: clear part of the warehouse, build half the automation, switch over, then repeat with the other half.
  • Required temporary product relocation—a multi-year transformation.
  • Result: Became “the lowest cost per unit warehouse in their network, breaking records on throughputs by the week.” —Will Mansard (34:41)
• Case 2: Semiconductor Client (First Automation Experience)
  • Hesitant to implement goods-to-person automation.
  • Built a small, parallel “mini system” as a pilot.
  • Gained experience, reduced risk; later scaled to full solution.
  • “It’s that whole crawl, walk, run approach... ended up a very successful project.” —Will Mansard (38:12)
• Takeaway: True partnership and collaboration—meeting clients where they are—is essential.

8. Enterprise-Level Considerations

• Standardizing automation and especially software across sites brings efficiency.
• Balancing standard (off-the-shelf) vs. custom solutions is key. Simplicity is the goal—but rarely easy.
• “What usually becomes the most complex and challenging part of any integration is the software... If you can standardize... it makes everybody’s lives easier.” —Will Mansard (40:43)
• Companies must be prepared for acquisitions, site-level autonomy, and non-uniform environments.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "What's the cost of doing nothing?" — Will Mansard (00:00; 49:22)
• "Warehouse retrofits and upgrades are no different than your car… At some point it’s going to be a big enough inconvenience where you need to do something about it." — Will Mansard (13:51)
• "Rule number one, make sure orders go out the door. Rule number two, make sure orders go out the door." — Ahmed Arif (17:16)
• "Orchestration is the secret sauce of automation… that’s where automation gets a bad rap. You get hiccups… errors, bottlenecks, excessive exception handling." — Ahmed Arif (20:23)
• "Sometimes, Greenfield, we have too many choices... But sometimes when there’s no possible way this can get done... that's where we thrive as an industry." — Deborah Dole (11:07)
• "The ultimate compliment is when somebody on the customer side comes up to you and says, 'I thought you worked for us.' That is how you know you’re doing a good job.” — Ahmed Arif (30:46)
• “As humans… we can easily leave someone behind. That's a great leadership tip.” — Scott Luton (40:17)
• “It's not really the cost of doing nothing today. It's about the cost of doing nothing 18 months or two years from now… the world has moved around us.” — Deborah Dole (49:22)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – 02:08: Introduction, brownfield/greenfield analogy, episode preview
• 02:08 – 06:26: Guest introductions, building rapport (soccer coaching = leadership, travel lessons)
• 09:44 – 11:53: Brownfield vs. greenfield explained, maximizing brownfield gains
• 12:26 – 14:03: Addressing cost and time concerns; cost of doing nothing
• 15:53 – 17:52: Ahmed’s stepwise retrofit approach; do no harm; contingency planning
• 20:23 – 22:16: The orchestration of technologies and why integration is key
• 23:00 – 24:52: Will’s four-step retrofit framework
• 32:49 – 40:43: Real-world case stories (pharma, semiconductor); partnership/collaboration emphasis
• 40:43 – 44:54: Enterprise customer considerations—software strategy, simplicity vs complexity
• 49:22 – 50:31: Deborah’s Key Takeaway—Cost of doing nothing as guiding principle

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Key Takeaways

1. Retrofit Projects Are Logistical Surgery

• Approach them as you would “open heart surgery”—minimal stoppage, maximal planning.

2. Focus on Problem Definition & The Cost of Inaction

• Don’t retrofit for technology’s sake. Know what problem you’re solving and the future cost of not solving it.

3. Orchestration (Integration) Determines Success

• Automation isn’t about parts—it’s how those parts work in unison, with software as the linchpin.

4. Phased, Collaborative, Custom Approaches Win

• Visionary leadership, a willingness to try (pilot, test, learn), and choosing practical over perfect deliver the best outcomes.

5. Enterprise Scale Needs Balance and Standardization

• Consistent software/hardware stacks reduce risk, but some customization is inevitable due to acquisitions and legacy environments.

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Resources & How to Connect

• Bastion Solutions: bastionsolutions.com — Submit inquiries directly; Will Mansard and Ahmed Arif see and respond to these.
• Connect on LinkedIn: Both Will and Ahmed are active and share insights regularly.
• Supply Chain Now: Subscribe for further episodes, practical guides, and use cases.

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Final Thought

As Deborah Dole highlighted:
"What’s the cost of doing nothing? ... If we want to be in a different state two years from now, we've got to be thinking about that today." (49:22)

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For those in global supply chain facing operational bottlenecks or underutilized facilities, this episode delivers a clear, actionable, and inspiring playbook for achieving breakthrough improvements—without breaking ground.

Transcript

[A]

What's the cost of doing nothing? Why would you do a project? And once we better understand that, we start talking about what's step one. Let's, let's talk about the solutions we have to solve the problems. Really these warehouse, you know, retrofits and upgrades are no different than your car.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I like to make that analogies like drive your car enough, you need to get oil changes, you're going to have to take in the shop, things are going to break, you're going to be dealing with at some point it's going to be a big enough of an inconvenience where you need to do something about.

[C]

Welcome to Supply Chain now the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership from across the globe, one conversation at a time. Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be. Scott Luton and Deborah Dole right here with you on Supply Chain now. Welcome. You're back by demand. How you doing?

[D]

Fantastic, Scott. Happy to return. How are you today?

[C]

Wonderful. I'll tell you, I loved our show last week which offered a great transformation story. But this topic here today, this show here today is going to be tremendous and we're going to be talking about topics that really don't get enough, don't get enough airplane, don't get enough action. So timeless show tied up here today, folks. We're going to be dialing the conversation in on uncovering breakthrough opportunities without having to break ground on new sites and facilities. Hey, did you know some studies show that up to 40% of warehouse space in brownfield sites is underutilized, especially due to outdated layouts, flows or equipment. We're going to be offering up proven expertise and advice on optimizing your approach to retrofitting your facility to find these big potential improvements that's going to help you delight your customers knock their socks off. We're going to be sharing how to minimize disruption while maximizing gains. We're going to be exploring some of the innovative orchestration I love that word of technologies that play out in the market and folks out in the market today. Not, not conceptual stuff. And we're going to be sharing some helpful real world stories as to how organizations have been able to significantly upgrade current facilities and infrastructure. And all that's going to give you some actionable ideas. No doubt. All this a lot more. Deborah. Should be a great show, huh?

[D]

I'm looking forward to it. This is a topic near and dear to my heart.

[C]

It sure is. And I can't wait Given all of your contributions and your big track record out in the industry as a supply chain leadership rock and roll star, I can't wait to hear your perspective on today's show. So folks, are we ready? Let's see here, Deborah. We're going to bring in an esteemed one, two punch here today, starting with Will Captain Mansard, director with Bastion Solutions, and his colleague Ahmed Arif, vice president of engineering with Bastion. Right, Ahmed, how you doing?

[B]

Doing great.

[C]

Great to see. I almost gave you the lieutenant title, but we're, we're still figuring out that. But great to have you here. And Will, welcome back. How you doing?

[A]

Thank you. It's good to be back. Appreciate you having us.

[C]

You bet. I know you're out there doing big things, moving mountains. And Deborah, we had a, we had a bunch of fun in the pre show, didn't we?

[D]

We did, we did. We were handing out titles, maybe a few promotions.

[C]

That's right. So folks, now we get into the good stuff, but I want to start with a fun warm up question. So Ahmed, one of the things we picked up in the pre show and some of our pre show conversations is one of your passions in life is, is coaching soccer. And we, man, I love that we need so many good coaches because it impacts so many kids lives. So I got to ask you as the supply chain nerd that I am, any golden supply chain or leadership lesson learned that you've uncovered while coaching?

[B]

Well, I didn't originally seek out to be a coach, but you know, as a parent, you get the call, hey, we need coaches. So I said let's give it a try. And the big thing that I took away from coaching is it's leadership in its purest form. These kids, they don't care about your title. They don't know what you do outside of the immediate. And you know, it forces you to be, you know, take things, make them simple, you know, show investment in their development. So just a lot of fun.

[C]

I love that. Lesson learned. Ahmed, home run are there. When you get three goals in hockey, it's called something. It's escaping me right now. Hat trick. Hat trick, right. You just offered up a hat trick. Lesson learned from your coaching. I appreciate what you do. All right. So Will, a little different for you because much like Deborah, y' all both travel a ton. I bet Ahmed travels a good bit too. But Will, in past discussions we've uncovered your love for travel and a big memorable trip you made to Costa Rica. Give us a highlight from that family trip, Will.

[A]

Yeah, so I, I Do like to travel, especially when we're seeing different cultures. So Costa Rica was a lot of fun. I'll say. Two takeaways. For anybody that's curious about Costa Rica or interested in visiting, two things you should most certainly do. Number one, the coffee is fantastic. You know, one of the best places in the world brew coffee down there. So they've got all kinds of coffee tours, chocolate tours. You get to learn about coffee, how to how it's made, do lots of tasting. So definitely check that out. And then ziplining would be the second thing.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

So the ziplining down there is absolutely incredible. It's nothing like zip lining here. You're hundreds of feet, you know, over the rainforest, 60 miles an hour, thousands of feet between platforms and it's, it's an incredible experience. About as close to skydiving as you can get. So.

[C]

Really. Well, you had me at coffee. You didn't have me so much on skylining. Take your like that. But a really quick deb before I get your comments here. By the way, folks, we have been using captain in our our conversation. We'll probably sprinkle it throughout because Will served as a captain in the United States Air Force. I appreciate his service to our country. So Deborah, question for you, whether it's coaching soccer or whether it is traveling the world, what would you rather spend a weekend doing?

[D]

Oh, as we talked about this in the pre show, I'm such a big traveler, travel has to take the cake on this one. But I will say, look, if you've ever tried to get a group of adults to do something, you think that's hard, try to get a group of children to do something. So hats off to any youth sports coaches out there. It's hard work, but it teaches you, just as we heard from Ahmed, the simplicity of why we're headed toward the direction that we're headed. I have been to Costa Rica, I have had the coffee and chocolate and the ziplining. And I've got to say, it's a great way to spend a weekend. It's closer than people think. So go check it out and be curious about where your food comes from. The coffee bean and the cocoa bean are actually pretty similar. The process of making cocoa is fascinating and something I think you should all go learn about.

[C]

Deborah, that is a great call out. I love the supply chain stories behind all the products that we use every day that we don't stop to think about. So good stuff. And folks, if you want to compare and contrast travel stories, reach out to Will, Deborah and I Bet Ahmed too. I bet they stay on the road as they are driving driving performance gains across industry. So let's do this. Let's get into a big topic here today and I want to start with some level setting because we don't get enough context this ever fast moving world we live in. So we'll really enjoyed our past conversations. Great to have you back here on this topic. We'll get to it in a second. But if you would briefly share a little bit more about yourself and Bastion Solutions.

[A]

Absolutely, yeah. So I have been with Bastion for about nine years now. We like to say that in the factory industry that's like dog years. So that's nine times what, seven, 53 years. So a lot has happened in the past nine years. It's been a lot of fun. We move really quickly and do lots of fun things. But my current role is I lead the system sales team. So simply that's to make sure that we're delivering high quality, meaningful presentations and proposals to our clients. And Bastion Solutions is an independent integrator in the market. So we, what we do is we put together best of breed automation solutions for our clients, pulling together all sorts of different automation to one system and orchestrating all that with the software.

[C]

Love that. Solving problems and lots of customized problems, I'm sure. All right, same question for you, Ahmed. Now that we know a little more about Will and more about what Bastion does, tell us about your professional journey a little bit, Ahmed.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I've been with Bastion for 17 years. I'm hooked on the industry. I'm not going anywhere. It's too dynamic. I don't, I think I'm ruined. But I've served in a lot of different capacities. I've been in sales, engineering, project management. I basically can't hold a steady job apparently. And I've been in leadership for the past 10 years. And right now my primary responsibility is supporting our project engineering team and our controls team.

[C]

I love that. Have you read all those books behind your left shoulder, Ahmed?

[B]

Anybody who knows me knows that I'm a big reader. So yes.

[C]

Okay. All right. So Deborah, as we've learned in our earlier conversations, we got quite the one, two punch here between Captain Mansard and Ahmed, huh?

[D]

We sure do. I am really excited. 10 years plus 17 years. We've got a lot of experience in this field and I can't wait because the industry is really dynamic and the technologies are pretty outstanding and they can be a challenge. And that's what I'm excited about for today's show. Is getting really practical so that those listening can take away some learnings and some best practices on how to take advantage so that your teams have a better day. But some of the watch outs and look around the corners.

[C]

Love that, love that. Completely agree. And hey, experience matters. And you're going to see folks, if this isn't a practical conversation, an actual conversation, you let me know because I, I, I challenge. I think we're going to hear really good stuff from Will and Ahmed and Deborah. So let's get into it. Let's start with clarifying a little bit. As y' all see in the title we use the word brownfield. Now we've got the smartest audience in all of global supply chain. But for some of our newer audience members that may be more familiar with greenfield site. Will, let's just level set for a second. When we say brownfield site, what are we talking about?

[A]

Yeah, well I'm glad you gave me the easy question, but yeah, Greenfield and brownfield, you know, Greenfield, you think about that. It's like it starts as a green field, just an open pasture or some open lot of land. You're going to build a building from scratch. Right. Less constraints. And we talk about brownfield. I don't know where the, I don't know where the brown came from. It's for me it's usually like great field, a lot of concrete, lots of stuff in the way. Right. But there we're talking about retrofit or an expansion of an existing system. These are the harder projects, these are runs where you got to really think through it, the cutovers and all those kinds of things. A lot more constraints. Naturally those are the more difficult projects.

[C]

That's right. And the good news here that we're going to really talk through over the next hour or so is there's tons of opportunities in their current infrastructure and brownfield sites. Lots of innovation in space too that's unlocking newer and newer ways of looking at the improvement. So we'll actually really quick. Deborah, I know something you're very passionate about before we get in a little further. Maximizing the incredible gains rather than ripping what used to phrase in a pretty place. Yeah, I mean there's such. There's tremendous opportunities here, huh?

[D]

There are. You know, the idea that we have to always start from scratch and build everything from new can be a barrier to taking advantage again of some of the latest and greatest. And I think there's more excess capacity around that people don't really realize. I think we're going to get into Some of that. But when we think about the best way to drive utilization and utilization, I'm not sure we, we measure enough in our supply chains. Often the way, the best way to do it is to add something, sometimes subtract something, move something around. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So when we want to have a new whiz bang technology solution, we might need to put in something just in one port of our warehouse. So green field, purple field, pink field, whatever we're going to call it, I actually think these are more fun. I think sometimes, Greenfield, we have too many choices and that can lead to analysis paralysis. And it takes us years and years to complete it. But sometimes when there's no possible way this can get done and it's impossible, there's so many constraints. That's where we thrive as an industry. And I think that's why people like Ahmed stick around so long and you're hooked because you're constantly problem solving.

[C]

And I bet, excellent perspective. Deborah, I couldn't agree with you more. And I Bet Ahmed through 17 years, if I got the number right, could write a book. I bet he's had some interesting, interesting anecdotes. But anyway, let's do this. Let's start this conversation. Now that we've level set and everyone's got, got some context with us, let's talk about the North Star. And that's the customer, right? In particular, their mindset and some of the challenges that they see. So will, a question for you. How do you address cost concerns from customers that are hesitant to invest in upgrades?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well, first I let me say I don't envy our clients. They're usually these operators in warehouses that run around to hair on fire every day is, you know, some form organized chaos trying to get orders out the door. And really the last thing on their mind is pausing and planning some kind of a project, right? To them it's an inconvenience. They're trying to do their day job and we take on these big projects, they're, they're time consuming, they can be complex. It's usually an additional duty. It's something they have to manage alongside their day job. So I fully appreciate their mindset when it comes to approaching these kinds of projects and the cost associated and really just the time associated. I think it's, it's a lot of times for retrofits, it's more the time than the cost and being able to really thoughtfully plan these things out and that's what we like to do is to help them make it simple. Deborah mentioned that these projects are complex, they can take a long time. You get into this analysis paralysis. What do we do? And so what we really thrive in here at Bastion is trying to make it simple. Right. And cost becomes just a necessity to solve the problem. So we want to, you know, from the very beginning understand what problem we're trying to solve. What's the cost of doing nothing? Why would you do a project? And once we better understand that, we start talking about what's step one. Let's talk about the solutions we have to solve the problems. Really. These warehouse, you know, retrofits and upgrades are no different than your car.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I like to make that analogies like drive your car enough, you need to get oil changes, you're going to have to take in the shop, things are going to break, you're going to be dealing with at some point it's going to be a big enough of an inconvenience where you need to do something about that's right.

[C]

Especially if you've got a 16 year old driving a 20 year old Honda Accord, it's going to stay in the shop. I'm not speaking, I may or may not be speaking from personal experience. Deborah, really quick, I want to pick up on one thing Will said before we get Ahmed to talk more about a proven approach they take. Time is money. Time is money. And I love Will's comments about what the current state and the tyranny of the urgent always brings to the equation out in operations. And if you can save your team members time, save suppliers time, save time as an operation and bring in the experts so that it gets done quicker and right. Your thoughts, Deborah? Time is money, huh?

[D]

It is. And I appreciate what Will said on focusing on the problem that we're trying to solve because I had a really interesting conversation with a team that runs a warehouse for a very large organization. And we were talking about automation and how something could go faster. And somebody said, look, it doesn't always have to go faster. It doesn't even have to be faster than a human. I just don't want my team to be doing it. And then we can sequence that work in to work around human beings. And I thought that was a refreshing point because we often get in faster, cheaper mindsets, but we don't always have to. So that idea of what problem are we trying to solve and anchoring into it is such good guidance for folks who are trying to figure out how might this actually work in our roadmap.

[C]

That is right. And we got to. You put it much more eloquently than I did, but we do got to focus on the right problems and make sure they're worthwhile of solving and investing our very finite resources. Ahmed, I want to talk with you about the approach. Right. What's the best way that you found in all of your experience to approach retrofits without interrupting? We can't interrupt. We got plenty of disruption out there outside of projects, but approaching retrofit successfully that limit the interruption of a long running legacy system. Ahmed, tell us more.

[B]

Yeah, whenever I hear retrofits, the word that comes to my mind is logistical. It's a logistical project first and foremost. So we have to make sure that we think about retrofits in that, in that light. And so first and foremost, before you start cutting into open heart surgery with an existing system, you got to understand what is the existing system, how does it work, what's the flow, you know, what's the logic. And if it doesn't exist, the documentation, you got to reverse engineer it and figure out how does this thing work so that when we start cutting into it, we don't create more damage. Secondly, you got to have a mechanical phased plan. If you're going to do anything, you got to break down the work into chunks and show that visually so it's more manageable and you can kind of see what you're getting into electrical, the next step in the sequence, you know, make sure that anything you're doing is like quick connect and preassembled and just make it so that it's, you know, painless when you're in the field. And then, you know, the heart of any system is really the controls and software. And you got to make sure that if you're going to be cutting into it, you understand how that logic is going to connect with the old system. So a lot of companies are now moving into emulation. So they want to test, make sure that it actually works. And then lastly, make sure you have your contingency plan. Rule number one, make sure orders go out the door. Rule number two, make sure orders go out the door.

[C]

I like that. Oh, man. And I had to. I had to. I was taking fast and furious notes. You're wearing out my right hand. Man, that is really good stuff. And I gotta. Deborah, I'm coming to you in just a second. I'll get Will to speak on constructive dissatisfaction in just a second. But first, the Hippocratic oath, where kind of Ahmed started do no harm. That isn't just relegated to the medical field, it is certainly relegated to continuous improvement in global supply chain too. But will, let's sharpen the point a bit more. How are companies or how are customers that you're talking with and working with approaching their dissatisfaction within their operations right now?

[A]

Yeah, I think that we are easy to. We want to be easy for our customers to, to get a hold of.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We want to be easy to do business with. So I see it come in two ways, right. It's if it's again going back to why we're doing these solutions, why customers are contacting us in the first place. Everything we do, there's got to be a business case, right. There's a need to do it. And so once we understand the problem, I think it's, it's one of a few different things. It's either they want to do a project because they've been putting up with this, some kind of routine maintenance for so long that it's getting to a point where it's going to. It's risking uptime to their business and getting orders out the door, like Ahmed said, is the most important thing. So if they feel like there is some risk of downtime, they're not going to get orders out the door. That's going to be a very immediate need. They're going to contact us, likely through our support organization. We got to do something right now. It's going to be very urgent. And then the second way is it could be an opportunity to do a project to cut costs, to grow revenue. They may have new business moving in from another warehouse. Those are usually more thoughtful. We've got a little bit more time to think through that. It's a proactive outreach from us so we can really set up that engagement and talk through all the right alternatives to consider.

[C]

Deborah, between the approach and the best way to act constructively with your operational dissatisfaction, where good stuff there from Will and Ahmed. Your thoughts, Deborah?

[D]

Couple takeaways that I'll take into other projects is this idea of open heart surgery. On the one hand, we often try to calm our teams down during launch to say, this isn't rocket science, no one's going to die. Don't be too stressed out, but do a good job. But this idea of open heart surgery is really valid when we think about we're opening up a system that's functioning today, more or less, and maybe it's held up by duct tape in humans, but it's functioning. And so I like that idea. And then if we keep that going, then this Idea of hypercare and setting somebody in an icu, maybe we don't finish surgery and send them home that day. Often there's some, there's some hypercare after that. And I like Will's description of what that can look like. So good for people to think about the layers Ahmed went through, thinking about all the different considerations. And I think that applies to any project that we go off and do at Supply Chain.

[C]

Good stuff. Especially that aftercare comment of yours. All right, Deborah, Will and Ahmed, let's keep driving here. We're going to talk about one of my favorite words that always brings a symphony to my mind. So, Ahmed, how valuable is the right orchestration, the right orchestration of technologies, and how is that playing in today's automation strategies?

[B]

Yeah, orchestration is the secret sauce of automation. We use integration a lot in our daily conversations, but that is really what determines whether or not automation projects can be successful or if it fails. And you know, integration, orchestration, it's all about the equipment, it's about the software, it's about the controls and does it seamlessly work together for the client's business. And that's where automation gets a bad rap. You know, you get hiccups and those hiccups come in the form of like errors and faults and unintended bottlenecks, excessive exception handling, where why did this case come down here? I don't even know why. Those are the things that give automation a bad rap. And you know, to get the orchestration or integration right is really an art. You have to make sure everything kind of comes together. And Will and I see this all the time, first time buyers of automation, even if it's a retrofit, someone new in the role, they don't know what they don't know. And so sometimes they want to speed right through and get the tech in there and hope it works. But we always see this. Veteran buyers are notorious for saying, we're not skipping the details, let's get it right. I have gray hair. I want to do this.

[C]

Deborah, really quick. I love that contrast between new buyers that maybe are going through their first couple of projects and savvy, grizzled veterans. Your quick comments there, Deborah.

[D]

It's nice to have both though, isn't it? It's nice to have both. Sometimes we get in our own way and we say, this is never going to work. I've been through this before, I'm too tired. So that's why we like to have a diverse team. The teams that can say that's all Right. I'm ready to go spend my nights and weekends being stressed out and they can earn their traps. But it's so true. And that's what having a partner is for. So if you are a new buyer or you're an old buyer and you too tired to go through all the change management yourself, that's why we rely on partners, so that somebody else can come in and help prop us up and get us through that journey.

[C]

That's right. And to add to that and kind of what Ahmed was saying, and I know this well, having spoken with Will and the Bastion team time and time again, and it's as important having a. The right partner telling you what not to do and what to watch out for as it is, hey, this is how it's going to solve your problem. So you got to have both. Got to have both. If it's all unicorns and candy canes, hey, you better ask another question. So let's do this. Let's see. Let's talk about retrofits a little bit more in detail and a few really important key strategic considerations there. And Will, I'll come back to you. Captain Mansard, how would you walk a customer? How do you walk a customer? Rather, through starting a retrofit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let me break it down into four things. Number one, we got to focus on understanding the problem. Right. So we'll call that discovery. That's really assessing the current state, walking around the operation, really understanding what they're doing, what the constraints are, collecting a lot of data, having lots of conversations, making sure that we find that North Star. Like you said, Scott, we got to keep perspective on why we're doing this in the first place. Number two, defining objectives. We want to make sure we understand what success looks like for our customer, be very clear about the desired instinct and any constraints that there are. I want to make sure that we know why we're doing it. And at the end, they're going to have a happy customer.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

The third thing is the solutioning. We've got a lot of engineers at Bastion. I'm an engineer, Ahmed is an engineer. A lot of engineers get excited about the solution. That's what we really run business for, is to see a problem and develop a solution for it. So that's what we're going to talk about. All the different ways of solving the problem, different types of technology, automate, you know, very automated solutions versus not very automated solutions. It's not. Automation isn't the solve for every single problem. Right. It's. It's got to add value. And then lastly for retrofit specifically, it's that implementation plan that requires probably the most thought and the most time to really think through how we're going to keep the operation live. We're not going to disrupt the customer, they're going to be able to ship orders. And I think that also just in that step is also making sure that we are being realistic about the project with the customer. It could be a first time customer that's never done a project like this, you know, and it requires some give and take. It's not always rainbows and unicorns and there are, there is adversity we're going to have to work through or things not going to go exactly according to plan. There's going to be some disruption. But we got to make sure we understand what we absolutely must do and we deliver on that.

[C]

Will, I love that four pronged framework you shared. Deborah, your thoughts first, which of those four were your favorites or really stood out to you?

[D]

Oh, it's impossible. It's like choosing a child. It's difficult because all are important when we do problem solving. But look, this solutioning piece I was thinking as Will was talking about the house stuff is made show or like in Mr. Rogers when they took us to the factories and I think those of us who love that ended up in supply chain and it's always so cool to say how did they come up with this? When you go to a factory floor you say who came up with this solution? And now we know how. But I will always, always, always fit in to define the problem as I think overlooked often. And as a diehard six Sigma person, understanding and defining a very, very, very solid problem statement saves us so much time later on and gets that alignment to what we need.

[C]

Excellent point. And that business case that Will mentioned, that problem statement that's usually at the top is usually the toughest thing to come up with and define. But once you, as old saying goes, I can't remember who said it, but once you really successfully define that problem, everything else may not be easy, but it's a lot easier. You talk about new world buyer, but you also got to counter the line of thinking about if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's a great call out because if we lean into that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, we're going to be missing lots and lots of opportunities. You know, none of us knew my iPhone's just out of reach. None of us knew we needed that back in the day.

[A]

Right.

[C]

No one knew. But, man, how it's changed the world. Right? Okay, Ahmed, I want to go back to your first, your two rules, which takes me back to a great moment from the Annie Griffith show that I might have to use later. But you're talking two rules. Get orders out the door. Number one and number two, get orders out the door. So how do you minimize disruption when integrating new tech into old systems?

[B]

Well, I'm glad you said minimize disruption. One of the things that we oftentimes see is that the operations team is surprised that there's going to be any disruption at all. So it's super key to get alignment on what the disruption looks like. I think if everyone kind of knows the game plan up front, it's not really disruption at that point, it's kind of the plan. So really setting expectations, making sure everyone knows, hey, we're going to be working weekends. We might be working nights or off shift to enable the testing or get orders out the door. But just making sure it's not a surprise is really key. But then on the project side, for the customer, whoever's in charge of the project, and then the integrator or supplier, just making sure you're testing. You want to make sure that whenever you do turn the switch on, on any minor changes you put in, it actually works because all the equipment's there. But when you flip the switch and things aren't communicating, that's a disaster you want to avoid. And that all begins by having a really good phase plan, which we kind of talked about before.

[C]

All right, love that. I gotta go back to your first part of your response. And, Deborah, this is really important. And you're hearing this in truckloads from Will and Ahmed. Keeping it real, keeping it realistic, that's who you want to work with, right? We don't want to work with the. What the unicorns and rainbows are. How you put it. Captain Mansard, real. Deborah, tell us about the importance of keeping things real and realistic.

[D]

Absolutely. Look, the reason, probably Will and Achman can tell us that they start conversations is because there's a cool. I'll use it again. Whiz bang technology. There's a robot. There's some automation. Hey, I saw this robot that picks up my shelf and moves it around. Can I get that? Or they might say, look, my team's just dying. There has to be another way to do this. But usually it's this. I know there's a solution out there. So there's a vision piece and there's a North Star piece. But then very practically, we quickly get into what exactly are you asking who to do differently and how exactly is that going to happen? And having the confidence structure and saying, look, we've done this so many times and these are the steps and this is where we're probably going to feel some friction and we're probably will feel a little disruption and this is what we'll do about it. That gives confidence to people who don't do retrofits every single day. You know, they might only have 20 warehouses and they retrofit one every five years, for example. And again, that's why we go to partners, because they do this all day long, every day.

[C]

Deborah, it's so true. And to add another point to yours about how talking about contingencies and, and, and disruption, right, while we're trying to minimize it, we, we talk about that because it only adds confidence. It helps with preparation, it helps mitigating the typical friction that comes with any change. And there's lots of different ways we define that friction. So that's good stuff there. All right, want to follow back up to Ahmed here. I want to go back to North Star. That's the customer. Why? And this, this, this is going to be a, one of those questions that may be very obvious, but I want you to speak to it with a really fine, fine tooth comb. Why is it important to speak the customer's language when planning a solution and what's the best way there?

[B]

Yeah, well, we talked about getting alignment and minimizing disruption. One of the best ways to do that is to speak the same language. You know, you can't build trust and confidence with a client if you don't really understand their world and how they operate. But when you start doing that, you really prove that you get their business. You understand what the critical, like non negotiables are for their business and their, their customers. So, you know, every operation has their flows, their processes, their quirks. And if you can get on the same page with acronyms, phrases, code words, you know, what, what applications they use, super, super important. And the how is all about, you know, establishing like an end to end document that goes from inbound to outbound of whatever we're about to tweak, if we can get on the same page from inbound to outbound on all the phrases, all the technology, the equipment, the IT side, you're going to set yourself up for success. And the ultimate compliment is when somebody on the customer side comes up to you after a few weeks and says, well, I Thought you worked for us. I didn't know you didn't work for us. That's, that is how you know you're doing a good job.

[C]

You've just been promoted from second lieutenant to first lieutenant. Ahmed, I'll tell you, that's golden. Been there, done that advice. And Deborah, if you could speak to one element of what he just shared there. We've got a big time challenge as an industry and have had forever in the not so common vernacular, we could because different parts of the world, different parts of operations, different sectors have different acronyms and we're not always talking the same language. Speak to that or something else.

[D]

Ahmed said, absolutely. Look, I love standards. We don't get to talk about standards enough. But we have and we have different standards bodies for the supply chain field. Of course, we go to the association for Supply Chain Management and the score model. It's out there. It's more than process, which people know already. It's practices, it's performance metrics and it's people skills. So also, if you want to go into a new part of supply chain, you can go off and check out the people skills that you need to develop. And so having this idea of like a Rosetta stone so that when we all get together at conferences, we use this Rosetta Stone language, a standards language. But when we're in our own four walls, we often use our own language. And that's the piece that Ahmed really explained. Well on. To be mistaken as an employee is such an honor. And that I think also speaks to the joy of supply chain is jumping in and learning supply chain, supply chain. We all do it a little differently, but we all do it the same. And so being able to go in and learn the language around being like an exchange student and coming out, being fluid is a pretty cool experience.

[C]

It is cool. Solving problems is cool. And we got lots of old, new problems to solve in global supply chain. For that matter, global business. And Deborah, I love your mention of the Rosetta Stone as a big history nerd. That's a great reference there, man. Let's see here. We're going to get into my, one of my favorite parts with this one of these last segments we'll get into today, real world examples, some been there, done that advice for folks in the back with their arms crossed saying, so what? Hey, this, this bud's for you. So Will, can you share an example of a customer exploring a thoughtful, slow, but successful pilot for retrofitting?

[A]

Yeah, I've got a couple examples. Let me start with one of our clients in the pharmaceutical space. We did a big project for them several years ago and I was part of that team and I remember walking in the warehouse for the first time and it was just wall to wall with equipment, nowhere, nowhere to build anything. And they had a vision. They wanted to turn that warehouse into, you know, world class leading the, leading in the market. Big, big ambitions for lowering costs per unit shipped out of the warehouse. And it was going to take a very thoughtful approach. It was open heart surgery and you know you're gonna, you're gonna feel it, there's gonna, there's gonna be a scar most likely. So anyways we, we ventured down that road with them and it ended up being a very successful project. But you know, what we had to do collectively with them is put together a very detailed plan. But it was one of these situation. There wasn't any room to do anything. So step one, we had to clear out some space. And so customer had to resplot the warehouse, they had to densify a little bit, they had to take some product and actually push it to a different warehouse for fulfillment for you know, a couple of years. While we went through this project, we ended up building half of the system. Once we had half of the space cleared out, we built half the system, we turned it on, we got everything running smoothly. And then once we did that, we, we filled up the rest of the system and cleared out the rest of the space and then we expanded it. So we had this, you know, large system in mind that we build it in two different phases and you know, think about that. It's going to, it's going to take a little bit longer. Yeah, it's going to cost a little bit more to do that. It's going to be a little bit more impactful to your business because now you have a, you have a construction project going on for no more than you would if you just had a refill operation to do it. Yeah, but if they didn't have a vision, if they wouldn't have went through the process, they wouldn't have ended up.

[B]

With the great results.

[A]

And now you know, they've had some incredible results. It's a market leading solution. It's the lowest cost per unit warehouse in their network, breaking records on throughputs, you know, by the week. And so just, just a really, really good story. And it reminds me that anything can be done, right? Anything can be done to get a bunch of engineers together, working collectively with customers as one team. We can figure it out.

[C]

I love that all right, I gotta, I gotta interrupt for just a second before we get to the second example. Deborah, three quick comments there on that first example. Vision is so powerful and finding customers and organizations that have it and are willing to lean into the tough things because it unlocks doors and windows of opportunity. That is a beautiful thing. Secondly, that phased approach, it was the right thing to do. That's why they did it. And it probably helped with realizing an ROI a lot sooner and minimizing disruption. And thirdly, that two phase approach, I think it was two phase reminded me of changing aquariums. You got to acclimate the fish, right? You can't just dump, you know, beautiful, expensive fish into a new aquarium. We got to, we got to do it gradually. Deborah, your comments on that first example.

[D]

You know, I have to say about a decade ago IMAX released a movie that was something like How Engineers will Save the World or Engineers are Saving the World. It was meant for children. It was like a 35 minute film. But I absolutely went and that's what I thought think of in this is Engineers can do Everything. And I'm just wishing that there were miniseries on all of these so we could watch that progression over time of, of this trucked full building. And that was such a good story. Well to show and paint the picture. And I think all of us are eager then to find out what about the next one. Yes, but you, and now we understand why you both been in your jobs for so long. It just sounds absolutely, absolutely fascinating.

[C]

So true, Will. So what's the second example you got?

[A]

All right. Number two client in the, the semiconductor business. And they were, they were unique in their own ways. All of our, our clients have some nuance to their business, but this particular client was very new to automation. And this was a really good example of something we talk about a lot and that is making sure that we're meeting our clients where they are, not where we want them to be. Right. Because we do this every day. And these projects for us they seem simple. And for our clients it's a very big deal where it's a, it's a large capital expense most of the time it's risk of disruption in their business and all these things, we got to make sure that we're meeting them where they are and walking them, you know, holding their hand through the project. But this particular client was wanting to adopt goods to person automation.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And do Vicki. And so we, you know, what they wanted to do, they were very hesitant to do that. That was very new to them. It was a new building. It was going to, they were spending lots and lots of money in this new operation. They wanted to be best in class. They have any experience. And so what they did was we basically built a mini system. So we, we took the product that we had settled on to use and we built a little mini system and it was done in parallel with the large system. But it, it gave us about an additional six months of time where we could build many systems, set it up, test out the software, test all the interfaces, let them get a little bit experience picking from the new system and a demonstration environment. And then by that time we were ready to build the big system again. Ultimately it took more time, it cost a little bit more. It was probably more of a disruption for our operations team that was leading it. It was more time to have had invested in this project. But at the end of the day, it's that whole crawl, walk, run approach.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Sometimes you got to do it. You got to do it. And ended up it was a very successful project. And I think they were happy that they spent the extra money and, and invested the time to do the pilot first.

[C]

Undoubtedly the immense value of testing. We're, we're launching a big piece of technology and we are testing that thing from top to bottom, from left to right. It's so, so important. Before I go to Deborah and also another great call out where he will started meeting the customers where they are. That's like the golden rule of E commerce, right? It's been so successful meeting where customers are their problems, not how we've always solutioned. Ahmed, comment, if you would. We'll just share two great stories and examples that I think a lot of folks here probably can relate to at least certain themes there. What do you think is one of the biggest takeaways from those two stories that folks should wrap their head around?

[B]

I mean just collaboration and getting on the same page, taking the, the project and not looking at it as a transaction, but more of a true partnership of we are mutually in this together.

[C]

And both of those stories showcase that undoubtedly and Deborah. All right, I like both of those examples. I'm not sure which one I like more. Like you said, it's like picking a favorite kid or something. What'd you hear from in that second example, Deborah?

[D]

Building like a flight simulator, the mini system kind of felt like giving the team a chance to, to try on a big complex system before they go for it. It reminds me sometimes we like to go slow to go fast. Sometimes we can go fast to go Fast and that works. The other one to call out for everybody listening what Will said, gosh, it's true in our day to days too. On what we do is simple to us because we become the experts in our jobs. We're the best in the world at what it is that we do and nobody else knows how to do what we do. That's why we're doing it. And we get frustrated sometimes in explaining our perspective and we know we're right, but we've got to meet them where they are. And that that could be if you're a project manager, inventory manager, category manager, anything it is that you're doing, you've got to remember that, that you're the expert and you need to simplify it for the folks you're trying to tell a story to so that it can see the expertise that you have and the experience you're bringing.

[C]

Love, that is a outstanding comment there because as humans we can oftentimes, whether you're in supply chain or not, assume everyone knows what we know. And you know, sometimes, especially if you're in your craft, you're moving fast and you can easily leave someone behind. That's a great leadership tip there, Deborah. Will, what should enterprise customers consider before deciding to retrofit or upgrade? It's a really important question.

[A]

Yeah, well when I think about an enterprise customer, you know, what comes to mind is some of our larger customers, they've got, they're multinational company, they got operations all over the world and they're going to do something at scale. And I think a couple things that I would keep in mind based on my experience working with these kind of clients is we talk a lot about having vision, staying disciplined to that vision. While every warehouse has its own nuances and our clients have, you know, warehouses all over the world and, and they're, they're doing lots of different things. But there's some core problem we're trying to solve for, right? Could be densification, could be cost avoidance, could be a better picking process, whatever it may be. But seen a lot of success with clients that are disciplined in the rollout strategy. And that is trying to adopt very similar, if not the exact same type of automation at multiple warehouses. Gain a lot of efficiencies this way. Projects just go a lot smoother, especially after the first one you can kind of rinse and repeat and then tied to that probably a close second is related to the software strategy. And for all the cool things we do and all the robotics that are out there, what usually becomes the most complex and challenging part of any integration is the software. And so we really like to take a thoughtful approach to that balance between doing something that is say standard or off the shelf. From a software standpoint, been done before, tried and true versus developing new software that's unique to a customer's business and you got to be able to do both. But balancing that is really, really important. And for an enterprise customer, talking about supporting an operation or operations all over the world, many different warehouses, if you can standardize on the software all the way from the wms, the warehouse execution system down to how you're controlling the actual equipment on the floor with the same software and multiple warehouses, man, it makes everybody's lives easier. So those are the two tips for me.

[C]

I love that. And by the way folks, easier is good. Especially when your hard working team members are are fighting so hard to have good days and to delight customers and take care of suppliers whole ecosystem and dealing with all the change and disruption, easier is really good. So that brings me to two two quick thoughts Deborah, before I circle back. Number one, that balance between custom versus kind of cookie cutter, right? There's nothing wrong with cookie cutter when it works, right. Costs are usually low. It's been vetted a thousand times, a million times. That's good. As someone said earlier this week, no one wants to be the first person to buy new software and be the first user, right? So it's good that balance. But secondly, Deborah, this is what I you threw me off with your great leadership comment a minute ago. Talking about speed, Captain Mansard, there's a great saying, I think the US SEALs, the Navy SEALs have it slow is smooth and smooth is fast. And there's so many applications of that to supply chain. Deborah, what did you hear there though in Captain Mansard's key considerations that customers, enterprise customers in particular, got to keep in mind?

[D]

Absolutely. Simple is best. And sometimes we don't get the choice to be simple. We might have many, many, many dozen warehouses for example. And I have spoken with supply chains that try to go to do the same software and they get done and then there's an acquisition, whoops, and now they've just acquired a bunch of new sites and none of those are on the same system. I've also seen where which is a good practice depending on your problem solving philosophy. They push decisions closest to the point of work and they allow a facility manager to choose the software stack for that facility, which is great independence for them. But of course you end up with all different flavors and so simplicity We've got to keep that as a North Star. The reality is that we rarely get the luxury of doing that. And so that's where we come in. How do we simplify the complex and how do we make sure that it can feel copy exact, even if we have different tools in our tool?

[C]

Bell well said, Deb Bryant. So let's do this. Will, I bet there's going to be some folks out there that as they think through the last hour, they're like, I bet I'm going to walk back out to where the. The go go back to the Gimba, where all the true experts of what we do are. And I'm, I'm going to see what ideas they may have because I bet we've got some tremendous opportunities in this current warehouse that, by the way, costs a bunch of money to build, but there's room for improvement here. So, Will, if they want to track you and Ahmed down, whether you're at home across the great state of Indiana or as you're out and about in industry working with all the movers and shakers, how can they track you down, Will, and start working with Bastion Solutions?

[A]

Yeah, Well, I hope we're easy to get a hold of bastionsolutions.com and we've got a great website, lots of good case studies and videos. You can learn a ton. Best way is to just submit an inquiry on our website.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I assure you that I see those emails on a daily basis of every customer who has submitted something to bash you, what questions they're asking. And you know, our marketing team is distributing those out to the right people so we can get in touch. And you know, Ahmed, Lieutenant Ahmed's first lieutenant Ahmed almost said second lieutenant is very active on social media, you know, so he's, he's the easiest one to get a hold of. All kinds of good stuff out there. So you go follow Ahmed.

[C]

You know, I'm with you. I was, I was, I am a new follower of first Lieutenant Ahmed. And you drop a lot of good focused, but also some, some more general business and leadership advice. Reg. I love it. So, folks, we are dropping some links here. I want to take them one by one. First off, Ahmed, you got to respond to that high praise from Will there. You like sharing your experience and expertise and perspectives regularly, huh?

[B]

I'm just surprised people want to listen. So, you know, I just do it. But, you know, apparently people want to hear it. So, yeah, you know, you find these little observations or nuggets in life and as you see them, you Note them down. Then you flicked on them and kind of let it percolate, and then eventually something good comes out.

[C]

I'm with you. Well, keep it up. Keep it up. And I want to go back to Will. Will says he gets all of these, and I bet he does. Venture over to bastionsolutions.com and if there's something that you want help with, make sure you talk with the captain and the first lieutenant here. Deborah, I got a hankering suspicion that they're pretty good at what they do, huh?

[D]

I think so. I'm looking forward to filling out the inquiry form. I have a number of projects actually I need help on, and I'm looking forward to taking this conversation to the next phase.

[C]

I love it. I love it. Well, let's help. Let's help the, the debras out there do just that. So I've kind of halfway asked you this question, but I want to do it again. Ahmed, how can folks track you down?

[B]

Just like Will said, our website, but also on like LinkedIn. That's the best place.

[C]

Okay. And look there, we got one click away from connecting with First Lieutenant Ahmed Arif. You have to check that out.

[B]

Promotion during this call.

[C]

This is you did you did. You know that's kind of what they did back in World War II, right? Actually, folks would. Would move up ranks really quickly. It's amazing if you go back in military history and you've done that here, right here in the last hour. All right, so Will, how can folks track you down, too? Is it. Is it LinkedIn or is it somewhere else?

[A]

Yeah, that's the way to do it. That's the way to do it. All right, so make it nice and easy.

[C]

We're going to drop your contact right there as well. So let's do this. Deborah, we're about to get your patented key takeaway. But before we do, I want to share a couple of great resources that the team has brought. Hey, we can all use more resources, especially practical resources. I want to start with this great strategy guide, consulting strategies for warehouse distribution operations from all of our friends there at Bastion Solutions. Y' all check that out. And then secondly, I love use cases. Deborah, you like use cases.

[D]

I love use cases.

[C]

I do, too. It is so practical. I like to see the problem. I like to see what was done, and then I like to see the impact. And Will and Ahmed do a lot of that. So here y' all can check out a Hercules ceiling products case study. Check it out. And, and plus, I like the video version of the. Of a Case study. That's even better. So, Deborah, you've got the toughest question of the whole day, I think, because by my count, my 17 pages of notes, there's lots of good stuff that Will and Ahmed have delivered. What is your key? Patented takeaway from today's conversation.

[D]

You know, Scott, today I'm going to have to give my royalties to the captain because I'm going to take the takeaway from him. Earlier in the show, he said, what's the cost of doing nothing? And as we think about projects, we often get excited about the potential of change. And we'll hit some friction of why do we want to change, truly. And while we should understand the cost of what we're doing right now, it actually can be really difficult to figure out our slice of the puzzle and that run cost. But it's not really the cost of doing nothing today. It's about the cost of doing nothing 18 months or two years from now. And these projects sometimes take that long. So if we want to be in a different state two years from now, we've got to be thinking about that today. We've got all these whiz bang technologies I've talked about all around us. And, Scott, you said no one wants to be first, but, gosh, that. That ship has sailed. You know, a lot. Even the technologies are out. Supply chains are using them, teams are using them. So think about what would it mean if we did absolutely nothing two years from now? The world has moved around us. Our partners have moved, our customers have moved, our suppliers are moved, our employees have moved and have higher expectations of us as a leadership team. So that's our takeaway for today. What's the cost of doing nothing?

[C]

What's the cost of doing nothing? And sometimes a lot of times, it's far greater than you can even consciously envision. Massive, massive cost. Good stuff there. Deborah Dole, always a pleasure. I love your perspective on these shows. And by the way, folks, check out Deborah Dole, Circular supply chains. You want to follow her on Across Social and check out her books. She is on fire as well. All right, Will Mansard with Bastion Solutions is terrific to have you back with us, and I'm so glad you brought great friends that has been doing big things just like you. Ahmed, Arif is terrific to meet you and learn from your perspective today as well. Well, y' all, please rejoin us again soon. Ahmed, does that sound good to you?

[B]

Sure. Love it.

[C]

Outstanding. And Will, we're gonna have you back in between your family trips around the world.

[A]

Hey, happy to do it. Appreciate you having.

[C]

You bet. All right, folks, I've enjoyed the last hour and Deborah, always a pleasure. I enjoyed your perspective and kind of how you rounded out these tremendous opportunities. We heard from Will and Ahmed, especially with how we can realize these opportunities in a smart, productive, outcome focused and limited, disruptive way, if that makes sense. So folks, hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I have. Big thanks to Will, Ahmed and Deborah for joining us. Big thanks for all of y' all to tuned in. Nobody everybody's comment and question, but you still have got homework. You got to take one thing. You got a big truckload of options too. One thing that Will, Ahmed or Deborah shared here today and put it into practice. Deeds, not words. That's how we're going to keep transforming this beautiful industry of global supply chain. With all that said about the whole team, Scott Luton challenging you do good, get forward. Be the change that's needed. We'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody. Join the Supply Chain now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out Supply Chain. Subscribe to Supply chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to Supply Chain Now.

[A]

Wherever you get your podcasts.