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A
Curious about the latest trends in the world of freight dive into our exclusive coverage of the U.S. bank Freight Payment Index and U.S. bank's new quarterly Rates Edition. In partnership with DAT Freight and Analytics, the index provides deep national and regional insights. The Rates Edition provides a unique marketplace view of freight rates. Visit freight.usbank.com to explore these quarterly reports and sign up for updates. For a dynamic take on this information and to learn what's happening now in the business world, subscribe to Supply chain now on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
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B
Embrace your uniqueness and creativity. I'm not trying to say that AI tools and things like this don't have value. They have a lot of value. But if your default move anytime someone asks you a question or you're confronted by a problem is to ask Chad, GPT or Claude, what's to differentiate you from the other people? Because it's just going to give you the same answer. So I would always encourage people to sit down and think, what is it I want to say? Or how might I go about solving this problem before using those tools?
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C
Welcome to Supply Chain, now, the number one voice of Supply Chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real Supply Chain leadership from across the globe, one conversation at a time. Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you might be. Scott Luden with you here on Supply Chain now. Welcome to today's show, folks. Today we're continuing one of my favorite series, it's the Now Generation, where we sit down with students and professional educators from some of the leading colleges and universities around the world on the Now Generation series here at Supply Chain Now. We're delighted to partner this year with Dr. Stephanie Thomas and the WISE organization at the University of Arkansas to power the series forward. WISE exists to show students that Supply Chain is exciting, impactful and full of opportunity. This initiative creates community, connects students with industry leaders, and helps them build the schools and confidence to launch meaningful careers. Stephanie and the Wise team are doing great work, including offering some terrific programming and annual events. You can learn more at the link that we've got down in the program notes okay, so folks, today is a very special episode. We're doing a variety of things here. One, we're profiling an incredible school, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, perhaps better known as Virginia Tech. Right? And we're going to be speaking with an excellent student and professor from Hokie Nation. We're also going to be featuring a passionate business leader and organization that supports programs and students at the school that is Mike Jones and the Talent alliance organization. And we're going to be remembering and honoring one of our friends of the show that's no longer with us, but whose legacy continues to impact and shape industry everywhere. That's the late Tyson Steffens. So get ready folks, as we have a very special show teed up here on Supply Chain now. All right, so we got our work cut out for us. First, I want to introduce a great panel that we're featuring here today, starting with Marta Gigo, a senior at Virginia Tech that's deeply involved in the packaging program. She's majoring in packaging systems and design, about to graduate in fact. She's very well known for her passion for packaging innovation, sustainability and creative problem solving. And through her involvement in the packaging program at Virginia Tech and hands on engineering and design projects, Marta has developed experience in packaging systems, sustainability analysis and consumer focused design. Also joining us, Dr. Laszlo Horvat, professor and department head in the Department of Sustainable Biological Biomaterials at Virginia tech. Now, originally Dr. Horvat is from Hungary, but he's been a faculty member there at Virginia Tech since 2010. He also serves as director of the center for Packaging and Unit Load Design. And when he finds a time, because I'm convinced he's got several clones, plus he's got three small kids at home. But he's also published 36 peer reviewed journal articles and has generated over $7.5 million in research funding amongst many, many other things. And then rounding out our panel here today, Mike Jones serves as CEO of Pallet Alliance. But beyond the business management aspect of his role, Mike has a track record for delivering real innovation to industry, especially when it comes to next generation pallet based solutions. Now if you talk to Mike for a few minutes, you're going to quickly learn that he attributes Pallet Alliance's 30 plus years of consequential success to many things, but most of all to its people. So I want to bring in our panel, Marta, Dr. Horvat and Mike. All right, Marta, how you doing today?
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A
Good, how are you?
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C
Wonderful, wonderful. Congratulations on your pending graduation. We look forward to learning more about that.
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A
Thank you. It's exciting. It's tomorrow, so I'm a little nervous
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C
for it, but it's going to go great. It's going to go great. And we're going to ask you a fun warm up question in just a minute. But welcome in Dr. Horvat. Great to have you here today. How you doing?
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D
Pretty good. Thank you for having me.
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C
You bet. Appreciate what you're doing. Helping to fill the talent pipeline of bright, incredibly bright people coming in the industry. So great to have you. And Mike Jones with the Pallet Alliance. Mike, great to see you. I think we rubbed elbows earlier in our journeys, but great to have you here on Supply Chain now, my friend.
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B
Great to be here. Thank you. It's nice to take a little bit of break from racing from trash fire to trash fire it is.
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C
And there's lots of fires out there. Lots of fires. Gosh, it's been an interesting year to start, but welcome in. All right, so let's do this. 99.9% of the shows we have here at Supply Chain Now I like starting with a fun warm up question to kind of humanize our guests a little bit. And in this case, we're going to be celebrating some of the things you are doing outside of Supply Chain. Marta, for example, you have got a big milestone that you mentioned coming up tomorrow where you graduate from Virginia Tech. So I got to ask you, what is one thing you're looking forward to doing to celebrate this big feat?
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A
Well, it's actually very exciting since my major is like in a smaller college here at Tech. It's not under the College of Engineering. All my friends that I live with and I've gotten close to are graduating Saturday. So they're all coming to my graduation like most of them. And then here in Blacksburg, since it's quite a small town with just a bunch of college students, there's a bunch of bars that do like happy hours and such. So I'm gonna go with all my family and all my friends and we'll have a nice happy hour celebration. I'm glad that they all get to join in on mine and I can like watch them cross the stage as well. It's going to be a big day to celebrate and everyone's free so it's like very celebration for me.
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C
But that's terrific. I hope you have seriously congrats as a special time and I can't wait. We all can't wait, I'm sure to see what you do in industry as you move on to what's next. So Congratulations, Marta. Now, Dr. Horvat, we were talking earlier in the pre show when you're not doing all these big things that ministry there and helping, you know, students on their, their journeys. You're very busy at home too because you've got three kids. I think their ages are 2, 5 and 7. So you have your hands full during the week and on weekends, is that right?
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D
Yeah, exactly.
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C
And what's so what is one activity? If you have the Saturday to yourself and you have all three kids and you want to get them out of the house, what's your go to Dr. Horvat?
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D
Oh, they like to stay outside. So we go out to the backyard fire of the fire pit, do some marshmallows, have some movies on the backyard and just play.
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C
I love it. Can I get an invite this weekend?
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D
Absolutely.
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C
You had me at s' mores and movies and of course the good old fire pit. That's terrific. All right. So Mike, on a similar note, you've got two, two children as well. I think six and nine are their ages and they've, they've got you roped up into a new challenge, is that right?
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B
That's correct. Yeah. Six and nine year old girls and about a year and a half ago they both started doing taekwondo and you know, as the, the family taxi to child activities. I was driving over there anyway and waiting through their classes and after about a year of prodding me that, you know, why don't you get up and do it with us? They finally got me to do it. So I'm a few months into my taekwondo journey. Slightly more fit and a lot more achy.
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C
I, I took karate way back in the day. Way back. Zen Shotaka was our, our type of karate back in the day and I was not good at it and, but, but my body was a lot younger so I had less aches and pains. But I admire what you're doing. I look forward to your yellow belt. You've already earned your yellow belt, right?
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B
That's right.
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C
Hey, achieving. I love it. We look forward to seeing what's next. But Mike, great to have you here and also big thanks to you and the Pellet alliance for bringing us this story, bringing us the whole panel and really appreciate what you all do to support industry. So let's do this. Let's level set from a professional standpoint. About our panelists journeys here and Dr. Horvat, I want to start with you if you would share a little bit about your background, tell us a little bit more about what you do at Virginia Tech and your area of focus there.
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D
So my whole professional background was revolved around wood engineering. So that's what my Master's was, my PhD and when I came into Virginia Tech I was hired to start a packaging program. So I'm one of the co founder of this program which is right now a really successful comprehensive packaging program within the university. And I also, other than when I teach, I teach industrial and protective packaging. And this is how we met with Pellet Alliance. Industrial packaging revolves around pelts that are ubiquitous around the supply chain. We always say that pelts move the world because pretty much every item that you buy eventually was traveling bulk loaded on a pellet. So a lot of my research focuses on that. Optimizing their design, creating new knowledge that goes into different STEM software packages that companies use around the world.
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C
Pallets do move the world. I think we've said that a time where maybe a million times. And Mike, including with some with Tyson back when he joined us for those episodes back in the day. But I want to. Dr. Horvat, that's remarkable. I love that entrepreneurship that you're exhibiting at Virginia Tech to really focus some resources and some innovation and some supply chain thinking into such a critical component of global supply chain. When did you found that program, Dr. Horvat?
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D
So the wood engineering. My family had a custom furniture manufacturing plant. So I spent my whole life from childhood to be in the facility where my dad's company was basically building different chairs and tables and kitchens for people. So that really made me more interested in the wood engineering side. And that's why I rented the university to study this. Then when I came to Virginia Tech, I learned about the amazing world of pelt.
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C
Gotcha. Okay. Okay. You spent. You spent your lifetime in this area. That's amazing. All right, so that brings me to Marta, because, Marta, you. You and your journey have benefited from some of what Dr. Horvat has started at Virginia Tech. Let's get to know you a little bit better. I gotta start though, before we talk about your major. What drew you to the program? You grew up in Rome, Italy, is that right?
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A
Yeah, that's correct.
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C
Okay.
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A
To the US when I was nine.
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C
And do you ever. Do you have. I'm assuming you got a bunch of family back in Rome. Do you go back and visit from time to time?
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A
Yeah, we are lucky enough to go back twice a year. My immediate like immediate parents and siblings are here, but no one else in America like at all. It's all just Italy and nowhere else in the Europe either, so.
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C
But you get a good twice a year, Mike and Dr. Horvat, I'm not sure. That sounds like a pretty good deal. And you're gonna have to give us some tips because we're. Our family's headed there soon. But I digress. Tell us again. I mentioned your major on the front end. Tell us what your major again and what drew you into the program.
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A
Yeah, so the major's Name is Packaging systems and Design. And I also was drawn into it a little bit on, like, the family wave. My dad actually studied mechanical engineering in college and in Italy, he was working for this company that got, like, bought out for another company. And the reason we came here is because they were starting to, like, build plants to manufacture these lids, which could be considered, like, an aspect of packaging. And choosing, like, colleges or, like, majors at the time in high school was, like, a little overwhelming. So obviously went to my parents, asked them, like, what do you guys think I should do or could be good at? I'm considering engineering just because math especially, like, being someone who had to learn English as a language. Numbers kind of stayed consistent my whole life. So I always reverted to numbers as something easier to, like, look at and understand and, like, comprehend and everything. Just since I was a kid and talking to my dad, he was like, you should go into something engineering. And then my mom was like, you are too creative for mechanical engineering. Like, you are going to be with a bunch of men all the time in classrooms and working on. She doesn't really know as much in the engineering world, but she just thought it was going to be cars, and that's it. And then I spoke with a packaging designer, and she told me about the work she was doing at her company. And when I looked up the field, I found Virginia Tech as one of the colleges for it. So I came here, toured, I spoke with a couple of our professors, and like, the college sets up, you know, those tours for students in high school. And I loved it. I looked at the curriculum and, like, the classes seemed super interesting. I like the sustainability angle of it. And, yeah, I really have had the best time here at these four years. I start as a freshman, which is kind of rare.
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C
Wow. Okay. So you're really doing what you were meant to do, following your passion. Mike, I got one more question for Marta, but really quick. Mike, I don't know about you, but between it sounds like Dr. Horvat and Marta been doing this, like, from birth, I feel like I'm a late bloomer. How about you?
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B
Yeah, same here. I'm. I guess I'm a little envious of the family connections to packaging and this kind of thing, because my family never had anything to do with pallets, except, as Laszlo pointed out, we got stuff that was shipped on a pallet at some point. So, yeah, in the former life, I was a weatherman and, you know. Anyway, I can talk more about that
- [14:47]
C
later and hold that thought for one second because I do want to you're back. You got a fascinating background. Of course, you've been doing some big things at Pallet Alliance. Give me one second. But, Marna, really quick before I go to. Mike, your internship. I was reading about the intern internship at Unilever Dove. Tell us what you did there.
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A
Yeah, I actually received that internship really early on. It was the spring semester of my freshman year, so I had really just begun in the program. And when I went to the career fair and everything, I was talking to the Unilever team and representatives there, and they had a couple packs of like, body washes and all of those shampoo bottles and such of the brands that they own. And I really was drawn into the packaging field because of those consumer brands at first. I love the idea of, like, working on something that you would see on the shelf and you could buy and have in your shower, give to your friends and like, you made it. So when they, like, offered me a co op internship for it, I like, jumped on it right away. I was so excited to do it and I learned so much. I really focused on like, plastics and kind of the design work for bottles. I was on the skin cleansing team. So any product you wash off your body, so scrubs, body washes, soaps. Now I have like a warehouse in my bathroom for all of those products. So it really paid off in a lot of ways. And I learned so much about, like, the packaging side on the transportation end as well, and all of like the supply chain logistics. But I definitely was working more on the immediate packaging there. Whereas I've had some other experiences too, where I got a little bit more of that supply chain and like, transportation experience.
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C
Very, very cool. That is terrific. Thanks for sharing. And Mike, I tell you, when I was thinking about when I mentally inventory what I was doing as a freshman in college, it wasn't nearly as cool as what Marta just shared. What about for yourself?
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B
Well, I had an interesting journey to and through college. I had a break while I did four years in the, in the Air Force. You know, as I mentioned in a, in a former life, I was a weatherman. Um, I was not involved in any internships or anything like that, so makes me feel a little bit like a slacker in retrospect.
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C
Mike. Same, same. But you know, what you just mentioned, and we were talking a little bit about this pre show. I think our time in the Air Force overlapped a little bit, but your role was a lot cooler than mine. So tell us a little more about your, your background, including in weather and of course in the industry. And of course you've been at Pal alliance now for over 20 years. Tell us what you did there too.
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B
Well, the only thing I'll say about, about my time in weather is it is definitely the most thankless job out there because nobody ever notices when you're right and you're right most of the time because weather's boring most of the time. But the 5% of the time there's anything interesting going on, it's really difficult to forecast with any precision, so it's difficult to do it well. And you know, people only really notice when you're wrong.
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C
Right. It's like Rodney Dangerfield of roles out there. No respect, no respect. But the good thing is is you've been industry doing big things, moving mountains for quite some time. Tell us about your role at Pallet Alliance.
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B
I actually started at Pallet alliance on a part time basis. I was on my way to law school and I was doing website review for an E health company and they shut the part of the company that I was working for down. So I needed something else to do for a little while. So yeah, I took a part time job doing administrative work for the Pallet Alliance. And while I was there I noticed that they were having all kinds of problems with their computer systems and they were using some overpriced consultants who weren't doing the job very well. And I said, I think I can probably do just as good a job so keep paying me 10 bucks an hour and let me work on that instead of moving files around. And they did. So I went to a library, people still went to libraries at the time and I read a bunch of books and learned how they do it. So they offered me a salaried position and that's where I started with the company. And over the next, I don't know, 15 years, I guess I worked my way up through the company. I did lots of different things, became a customs broker, we imported some steel nails for a while, managed operations, information systems. And sometime around 2015 we started looking into IoT technology with pallets of specifically wooden pallets to get supply chain visibility and provide shipment monitoring and yeah, so we've done some work in that side of the industry. But you know, during that time obviously I fell in love with Pallet somewhere along the line and you know, logistics and it's just endless, really complicated problems to solve and opportunities to make really big changes in the aggregate by making incremental improvements. So, you know, it's never the same day to day.
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C
Never, never. Well, very well said. And we're going to touch on all the cool things that Pal alliance does a little later in our conversation. But I want to bring up a really important, major theme in this conversation that we were talking pre show and we were celebrating pre show, and that is all of our connections, but certainly your connection to the late Tyson Steffens. Right. Did y'. All. I'm assuming y' all worked together for a big chunk of years.
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B
So he was the original external employee. Couple founded the company in 1995, and they ran it together just basically by themselves for a while. And he was actually the first employee from the outside. So he'd been there a few years when I started, and, you know, he was kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum. Whereas I had no education in Supply chain or packaging, he had an abundant amount of experience. And, yeah, I mean, he was always friendly to me. He was patient with me. He took the time to, you know, repeatedly explain to me what we did and, you know, what a palette was and how it worked and this kind of thing. And over the years, we became friends.
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C
I appreciate that, Mike. And as you were describing Tyson, it syncs with my memory, too. We met Tyson, our earliest chapters here at Supply Chain now, way back in 2018. 2019. And he was a terrific supporter, wonderful guest, and kind of what you were saying, very passionate, very intelligent, and he had. He was one of my favorite senses of humor that, you know, we ever interacted with. Right. He was someone that you always wanted to have extra time with. And beyond all of that, Marta, Dr. Horvat and Mike, you know, he was tireless in his efforts to help companies innovate and push the industry forward. And our team is honored to lift up Tyson Steffen's legacy and impact here today as part of our conversation. And I really admire Mike, you and the team at the Pallet alliance honoring that same legacy with this great scholarship program, which we're going to touch on here in a minute. All right, so let's keep driving a little bit. So, Dr. Horvat, I really want to learn more about the College of Natural Resources and Environment and. And especially some of the programs connected to packaging and wood science. Tell us more.
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D
So the College of Natural Resources is one of the smaller colleges at Virginia Tech, and then it houses different programs like forestry, geography, fisheries, and Sustainable Biomaterials. We. We actually have a meteorology program. So we train also betterment. And then the department that I'm in is sustainable Biomaterials. And that's what has the Packaging program. We have a really interesting program because packaging is, as you can think about it, is everywhere in the world. Every product that you ever buy is in a package, except extremely few items. We also have a sustainability program that focuses on environmental impacts, impact calculations and if you think about it, packaging causes some of those sustainability challenges because you buy the product, you use the product and you throw away the package. We recycle some of it and some of it biodegrades. But that is one area that we all encompass. The focusing on how to help companies ship their products to the destination without any damages and then how can they do it in a way that the end result, that package is not degrading the environment and it's not going to cause environmental programs. And that is the program that MARTA
- [23:16]
C
is in that is outstanding. We need that program. Dr. Horvat, I really, really admire what you're doing. Our industry needs so many more programs like that. We've got some big challenges to solve, especially when it comes to sustainability and shipping better while protecting the product and delighting the customer. How can we do that without saving materials and, and doing it in a smarter, more responsible way? Let me ask you this, Dr. Horvat, and we're getting to Marta and Mike's take on this program in just a second. But what makes, when it comes to how you and your fellow professors prepare students for success, prepare them for industry. What makes Virginia Tech's approach there unique, but also really successful.
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D
Two elements that make the program really successful. One is hands on industry sponsored projects. So we want every single student that finish from the program have as many hands on experience as they can so they get it with co ops and internships like MARTA did. They do undergrad research with our faculty. We have a distribution packaging lab where we actually test a lot of the products for companies. We offer the service to them so they can, they have a problem, they come in, they bring that problem and our students actually work on that, those those challenges and help them solve that so they are gaining hands on experience even while they are in the semester and studying their classes. And the other is really sustainability. The fact that we sprinkle in sustainability throughout the whole curriculum of focusing on bioplastics, biodegradable products like paper products. Our students learn how to assess environmental implications and select the right packaging. Because there's always a question, should we use multiple use plastics because we can use them for a longer time, but when we don't use them anymore, we have to figure out how to either recycle or remove them sustainably or do we use single use paper products that we only going to use once but they can biodegrade at the end. And that's what they are learning about, how to make those decisions and help companies make those decisions.
- [25:21]
C
Very big questions, very big questions. And it seems like we're getting better options and solutions to those questions and many others. But good stuff there. Dr. Horvat. All right, so Marta, just hearing what Dr. Horvat as he described the approach, what's been your experience thus far in this program?
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A
I think just backing off of what he said too, the hands on experience has been the biggest impactful thing on my learning and everything. Obviously I'm a senior, so we have a senior design project which all seniors get to participate in. But those internship experiences too that I was able to get through our program and the opportunities of like our career fairs and everything I think have taught me so much about what the real industry is like. And getting those experiences while being in college has set me up at least really successfully for graduating. And I'm very grateful to say like I have a job lined up that like aligns with what I've learned and what I've studied. I think it would be really disappointing to study something for four years that you're passionate about and want to work in and end up not working in that field when you graduate. So I think this program really sets you up to go towards those interests and it's very catered to what you want to make of packaging because there is so much of packaging that you can do. Like packaging touches every single side of the supply chain of. It's so hard to describe into words. Like I know I'm kind of word vomiting right now, but a package can be like the very material side of it to the end of life, to the transportation. There are so many steps in it and people have to work along all of those steps. So having our program really touch on each one and having opportunities to work in whichever side of packaging you're like interested and very passionate about I think has been like the biggest experience like learning here at Virginia Tech. I think it's just a great program overall. And looking back on like the four years the hands on learning has definitely made the biggest impact.
- [27:17]
C
Love it. So that begs a question because you're about to you graduate and move out into doing a whole bunch more hands on work, right? Changing how industry is done. I got a two part question for you. Number one, what are you most excited about as you, you know, start your Your full time career, I'll call it. And what's one area in industry that you personally want to drive big change or innovate big things in?
- [27:44]
A
I'm definitely excited about how the industry is evolving, I think especially around society, sustainability and technology. My generation lives in such an interesting time with AI and everything trying to be so automated and always faster, better. But I think that really is starting to put more of an emphasis on connection and people especially now that we kind of have these computer systems to figure out all the nitty gritty work. I think the connection in our field has grown more and that's something I'm very passionate about. Especially being in the smaller college of tech. I've met some great people in packaging. I think it's made the culture of this career really exciting for me to be stepping into knowing, you know, I'm going to be able to look forward to going to work every day. I'm not sure if everybody could always say that and for the future they can't.
- [28:35]
B
Marta, there's a lot of folks.
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C
Yeah, I've had roles, right. I think, I bet Mike and Dr. Horvath may have had some roles too where man, you just did it because you needed a paycheck. And then, and then the passion comes later at least. I know I can't, I can say that. But Marta, this is exciting for you to be, to love what you do so much and to be able to now go in the industry and do and act on your passion every day. That is outstanding. Marta.
- [29:01]
A
It's definitely niche. I don't think everyone gets excited about plastic bottles, but I think there's a lot of innovation for it and I think where I'm gonna specifically cater to work into, I'll be able to make hopefully a positive impact without it being so obvious. I think sustainability is a big topic of that. Like I would love to make a positive impact in sustainability without, you know, sacrificing those like aesthetics of products and why people want to buy them, you know.
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C
Outstanding. We're confident you will look forward to having you back on in a couple years. And we'll do a check in. All right. So Mike, you gotta be smiling ear to ear because of Yalls contributions towards, you know, helping to build this pipeline, engaging students so they can find their passions, much like Marta was describing. And also to help Dr. Horvat continue the critical research. And there's so much, there's so many innovations coming down the pipe thanks to, you know, what we're finding out through research and whatnot so let's connect the dots here a bit, Mike. Let's make sure folks understand what the pallet alliance does, number one. And then I'd love for you to make the connection back to where you know what you're doing to help support the students learning journeys as well. So. So tell us more, Mike.
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B
Well, essentially we work as outsized procurement for multi site manufacturing companies. So we're sort of an extension of the company. And what we do is we give them expertise that it just doesn't make sense for them to pay for themselves and acquire themselves. So we do everything from designing their packaging pallet specifically, but also crates to sourcing it for them. And so essentially you can have a company that's got five manufacturing facilities and when we engage with them, they have a few different products but they're getting different pallets for the same products at different locations. And you know, a lot of cases are using the nearest pallet supplier who may not be the best one. So they don't have a lot of standardization, their designs aren't optimized. And so we'll go to all of their manufacturing facilities, we'll look at the product, we'll look at their processes, we'll look at their shipment characteristics and we'll design the right pallets for them and then we source those pallets for them. So we do everything from vendor managed inventory to design changes as the cost picture changes from, you know, different materials because they, you know, all kinds of woods don't always get more expensive at the same time and things like this, products change, processes change and that kind of thing. And we consolidate all that spend data for them at the corporate level. So essentially they have one contact that manages all things pallets for them and we get it right for them and then we keep it right for them over time.
- [32:01]
C
So really quick, before we talk about your connection to the educational landscape, do you find and what you just shared there? Reminders in the conversations we'd had years ago. There's so much opportunity. A lot of, a lot of the industry can sleep meaning can kind of mill it in when it comes to pallets. But from a single site manufacturer to certainly a multi site manufacturer and other facilities, there's tons of opportunities and you're helping organizations find them and then capture them. Is that right?
- [32:33]
B
Yeah, that's right. And you know, I mean companies spend a lot of resources managing pallets at the end of the day and a lot of it they don't see so you know, they just know that they get, they can look at their P Ls and you know, they can say, okay, pallets cost me X, but that's just what they paid for the pallet. But they consume an awful lot of resources throughout their supply chain, managing them, dealing with pallet quality problems and all those kinds of things. And so we really, we take all that off that plate and we make the cost smaller.
- [33:02]
C
Love that, Mike. Very unique. There's so much opportunity, I think, in what you all do. And I know you all have grown left and right because you're really good at what you do. So now let's, let's talk about how you're, you're giving forward. And what do you feel is most important about the PAL Alliance's connection to the students? Learning journeys. Tell us more about that.
- [33:23]
B
Well, from a selfish perspective, you know, educated packaging professionals are our core differentiator. So we have four graduates of Virginia Tech's packaging program on staff, you know, all of whom had some experience with pallet design and processes. And when they show up, at least a couple of them we hired straight out of school. To Dr. Horvath's point earlier, they already had hands on experience. So we didn't have to teach them how to solve a problem. We didn't have to teach them how to think creatively about what they were seeing. And so if you hire people straight out of college, you can't always take for granted that they're going to show up ready to help you right away. I mean, a lot of times you spend a lot of their early period with the, you know, the company training them and there's some of that with, with everyone. But, but I'd say, you know, we have felt consistently like the graduates we get from Virginia Tech are, you know, they're, they're ready to contribute right away. So that, that has a lot of value to us, I would say for sure.
- [34:23]
C
So Dr. Horvat has got to make you grin from ear to ear when he, when he talks about, you know, graduates from your programs at Virginia Tech. Maybe he didn't say instant contributors, but maybe they are instant contributors. Ready to go, Dr. Horvat, you want to respond really quick to that?
- [34:39]
D
Absolutely. And one thing that is interesting that we see from the student standpoint that go into Pellet Alliance. I always tell students that Bell alliance seems to be a one way street for them. They go in, but they never leave the company afterwards because everybody who went in up to this point still works for a company. And that's important for at this day and age that students Go to companies and they stay for the culture afterwards. The challenges like you have to keep them excited and interested throughout the time. And if you can, you have long term employees.
- [35:10]
C
Excellent point. And before I continue on or talk about the, the scholarship program, Mike, I want to check in Marta, you know, dating from your internship as a freshman and the culture that was there to, you know, other interactions you've had with companies and even, you know, there's, there's a culture at every university and every program and things like, is culture up high on your list when it comes to companies you're considering working for after you graduate?
- [35:38]
A
Yeah, I actually think that was one of my top factors when deciding I'll actually be going back to my summer internship this past summer for postgrad. I'm going to Newell Brands. Haven't made a LinkedIn post about it yet, but I can talk about it. And I think the biggest thing after, obviously like enjoying the work that I'm working on in it being what I wanted to do it was the culture. Everyone there was so willing to help and teach you, especially as an intern. Like you said, you're almost like a fresh grad. Obviously I could give as much of my knowledge as possible, but I was really there to really take it all in. And I think the culture that packaging as like in general has, you can't really go wrong with most of the companies. And that's just really drove me all throughout these four years too. The students, I see it in our classrooms with the professors even. I never got the privilege to have Dr. Horvath as a professor, but I got to take some of his classes taught by other professors too. And even having a professor teaching someone else's class and still being so passionate and open to teaching you about it, I think has been really great. It kind of sets you up to be that worker that keeps the culture good in this major.
- [36:48]
C
Outstanding. And Mike, before we talk about the special program, as CEO, I know my hunch is, is that culture is near and dear to your heart. And when I think of the Tyson Steffens out in industry and how they can protect the culture and make, make it for a great environment for folks to be in. Going back to Dr. Horvat's point about, you know, folks coming into an organization and not leaving for a variety of reasons, but culture being probably up at the top. Your thoughts on culture, your thoughts on what Tyson Steffens added to the culture of the PAL alliance, and then we're going to touch, touch on the scholarship program.
- [37:24]
B
It's it's hugely important. I think that's, you know, there's a lot of competitive pressure from the marketplace, you know, to get more efficient and to, you know, drive better outcomes. And ultimately companies aren't going to work with you if, if you don't get results. But I think, I think character is every bit as important the way that you do things and you know, the leaving every relationship that, that you enter into better, treating everybody with respect, insisting on integrity. I think it's really important and, and I would say that Tyson personified to some extent, you know, that integrity. I think the other thing too, that, that is really important that he imbued the culture here with is, you know, if you're not making mistakes, you're not challenging yourself, you're just basically hitting the button over and over again. And you know, we have a culture here where people are, they're, they're free to make mistakes. I won't go quite so far as to say they're encouraged to make mistakes, especially when it comes to customer facing project. But by all means, you know, we don't, we don't have a culture of blaming, you know, we don't have a culture of fault finding. We don't say, you know, never try that sort of thing again. It really is about, you know, we innovate by being creative and by giving each other space to make mistakes.
- [38:46]
C
Well said, Mike. Well said. And I gotta add one more little, little anecdote about Tyson Steffens, who we lost way too early. I think he was 48 years old, which is, is just heartbreaking. But, but clearly the uplifting thing here is his legacy continues to do big things and that's why, that's why really all four of us are here. But picture this. I think it was the Modex 2020. So that was about six years ago, maybe 2019. I'm gonna get my ears confused. Anyway, we had 3,000 interviews over the course of four days. And, and we were joking with Tyson on the, on the heel of a 20 interview day about getting him in. And after we left there and left, left our mobile studio there on the exhibit floor, Tyson laid down in one of our chairs and he found like a semi blanket and he took a picture of him kind of sleep the first person in the interview chair and he sent us that picture and I looked high and low for it because we all, our whole team got a good kick out of that. And it really illustrated his wonderful sense of humor, which was only part of the, part of the, what made him special. So let's talk about what you and your organization did. The Tyson Stefans Memorial Scholarship that benefits what Dr. Horvat's doing, benefits incredible students like Marta that's going to go on to. To change the world in some way, shape or form. Tell us about the scholarship program, Mike.
- [40:12]
B
Yeah, just sort of briefly. He was a big proponent of giving back and being of service and this kind of thing. And after he passed away, we were thinking, what some way we can memorialize his, you know, his passion for education and his passion for service. I think his belief that innovation and creativity in pallets and packaging was really important. And I don't know who originally had the idea, but I think it struck us all as a really good way of memorializing him to open the door to support students going through Virginia Tax Packaging Program, which is, you know, the lifeblood of our expertise. So we talked with the college at some length about the best way of doing that, and we settled on endowing a scholarship. So that's what we did. And it's set up as a perpetuity. So after you endow it, they're just going to continue to make that award indefinitely.
- [41:13]
C
That is outstanding. It really is. Appreciate what you and the team have done. And Dr. Horvat, I know that schools welcome these sorts of special initiatives. So many, so many folks and programs benefit from initiatives like this. What does this support mean that Mike was describing from a university perspective?
- [41:33]
D
Yeah, company partnerships and supports like this are really important for us and it's really important for the students too. So on one hand, packaging is not something that people, or even pallets people really know about or students really learn about. So these scholarships help us promote this area to more and more students so they come into the field. And it's also hugely important for students. I mean, cost of education is high. Although they get a really high paying career afterwards, going through school costs a lot of money. And these scholarships really help students mitigate a lot of those costs throughout their education.
- [42:08]
C
And that, Marta, that tees us up because I want to ask you about it as one of the recipients and as someone that is about to graduate, what does this kind of support mean for you and your peers?
- [42:18]
A
Yeah, the support is truly means so much to me specifically, but even all students, like Dr. Horvath said, packaging is so small that I personally had to go out of state to do my major. It wasn't even offered in state. And I think now it's growing and bigger and that's so great for so many students. But I do Think it's still small enough that if you find this niche field and you want to really be successful in it, you do still have to go to a great school. Do you have to come all the way to Region Attack? At least you know that there's support behind it. And I think it's also super beneficial just to see that industries are wanting to invest in the next generation of students. I think that gave me a lot of not only financial support, but, like, the connectional and, like, just mental support throughout going through the field. I felt a lot of, like, encouragement. I got to even meet Mike and Aaron and a couple of the Pallet alliance people when I went to Pack Expo, which is an event that our program organizes. But, yeah, it's really meaningful to see someone's legacy just continue through supporting our students and helping grow the future of the industry. And kind of makes you also want to eventually be able to do the same, give back. Hopefully. Maybe not anytime soon, but I'll be setting up my own hopefully someday.
- [43:31]
C
And I bet it'll be sooner than you think. Mike, you almost have a. A pretty tenured team at the organization, huh? Yeah.
- [43:38]
B
Yeah. Once people get here, they tend to stick around. So, you know, it's. That's good.
- [43:45]
C
That is terrific. That's a blessing for sure. Superpower. Okay, so, Marna and Dr. Horvat and Mike, I got a question for you. And. And if you're like me, my crystal ball has not worked since 2016. It's been broken, it's been in the shop. It's not doing too good. So when it comes to. When I ask you all, though, when it comes to the future of global supply chain, especially from a packaging standpoint, what do you see? And, Marta, I'm gonna start with you.
- [44:14]
A
I think AI is super interesting. Very buzzword topic for the industry. I think if we can find a way to balance sustainability with the performance and efficiency of AI, that will be the huge next step for packaging.
- [44:28]
C
I like it.
- [44:30]
A
You know, that's kind of generic, maybe, but wait.
- [44:33]
C
But you know what? It is really difficult as someone that covers the industry all day. That's my job, right? It is so difficult to keep up with, with the latest application that AI in any sector, in any industry, certainly an industry is as far and wide as global supply chain. So, Marta, I bet you'll be able to come. Come back and join us in six months or so and tell us some of the cool things you're doing to apply AI in your. In your new role. We'll see. Dr. Horvat, same question. When you think about the future global supply chain, especially from that packaging standpoint, what's an observation or even a prediction?
- [45:10]
D
So it's becoming much more complicated and much more exciting. So if I'm looking at it from a packaging standpoint, we have omnichannel distribution. Instead of producing something, send it to a warehouse, give it to a store. Customer walks in, take it, take it home. Now we can send it anywhere, anytime, with any mode of transportation. You can get it with a drone, you can get it shipped to your house, from the warehouse, from the store. So we are designing instead of just for rails, airplanes, ships and trucks, now we are designing for personal cars, rickshaws, bikes, drones, which keeps us busy. And I think it makes this industry much more exciting for our students to deal with all of those great technologies like how can you design, for example, a product for the store in one of the big box stores versus also design in a way that you get it through E commerce, where you don't really need the graphics anymore, but you want to make sure that it survives all at the same time.
- [46:09]
C
Yes. Dr. Horvat, part of your response makes me think of how can we embate more and more circularity thinking into project design, which really can deliver on so many different levels. And we've got to do more of that, I think as an industry. Good stuff there, Dr. Horbat. And a lot of your work is helping organizations and the talent they're in think differently to do things like that. Now, Mike, I tell you what, I'm not sure what's tougher, predicting the weather or predicting global supply chain depends on the day, maybe. But when you think, when you think about the future global supply chain, what do you see?
- [46:42]
B
I mean, I'd be lying if I said this isn't a conversation that I'm having, you know, several times a day. At this point, I think the real answer that nobody quite knows because I'm not in academia. I look at it from the practical management of complex sourcing operations perspective. You're seeing a lot of expectations for greater efficiency and cost reduction, people trying to make the marketplace more efficient, and things like this. What I will say is all of these AI initiatives in supply chain explicitly depend on the quality of the data. And data from wooden pallets, which is primarily where we operate on, is often muddy and unclear and difficult to gain. I'd say something that manufacturing companies are not especially good at is data gathering and management from those materials. So I think the importance of helping with those initiatives, you know, helping them make more sense of what's actually going on is going to become more important.
- [47:52]
C
Well said, Mike. Well said. What? And Dr. Horvat and Marta, I appreciate all three of your perspectives, and I'm going to make a bold prediction, too. I tell you, whenever you drive through metro Atlanta, almost, no, no matter what time of day, especially up near Spaghetti Junction, you're going to find a little tiny pickup truck with about two miles of pallets ticked up going to one facility next. I predict the pallets will drive themselves to facilities at some point soon. We'll see. Yeah. All right. So let's do this. Let's do one piece of actual advice. All three of y' all are in a unique position, I think, to give folks that are either considering this field maybe like before they even get into college, before maybe they're high schoolers right now. Right. Or they're about to enter global supply chain as a career and they want to get a tip for how can they do what y' all have done, especially Mike, you and Dr. Horvat having been in industry for quite some time, we know what Marta's going to go do, right? We know she's going to go out there and move mountains. But, you know, y' all have been doing it for a little while. So one piece of actionable advice. And Marta, we're going to lead with you. If, if there's a high school senior considering following you in your footsteps and being a packaging design and systems major, what would be your one piece of advice to them?
- [49:11]
A
I would say to really just stay curious and take advantage of every single opportunity you get. In college, I think that made the biggest impact on me. I took advantage of every experience I could. The field's so broad, so many careers that you can go into afterwards. But if you really build those communication skills and teamwork and problem solving abilities in your major, I think you can really get the most out of it. And there's so much to get out of it. Just staying curious. It's like my biggest advice, like, never lose that curiosity, because I think it can be discouraging sometimes when maybe you apply to something you don't get it, especially nowadays, or I know there's a lot in the world, even with the environmental aspects, sometimes you can feel like it's doomsday all the time. But if you keep up the curiosity, you'll find the little, you know, positive things and motivations that keep you going.
- [50:01]
C
Marta, that was, that was said with a level of maturity far beyond your years.
- [50:06]
B
I think that.
- [50:06]
C
That was very, very well said. And would you also encourage global travel? Global travel. Going to Italy twice a year, you'd highly encourage that, too, right?
- [50:17]
A
I do have my trip booked, so I think maybe that helps with the staying curious part. But.
- [50:22]
C
Well, as a past guest once told us, and I've been stealing it ever since, you know, global supply chain is certainly the world's best team sport. Right. And that's one of the most beautiful components, I think, of this industry. All right, so, Dr. Horvat, same question. One piece of advice. Whether folks coming into the university world or folks about to enter global supply chain as a profession, it's hard to
- [50:48]
D
follow Marta after this. But the main thing that I would point out is get involved early, because that's something that is interesting is students come as a freshman, they get into the program, they just try to figure out how the university works, and then they think that it's not the time yet to be more involved in experiential learning and looking for an internship. And we have so many examples. We have one student who just joined the program last year coming in in the fall. Freshmen know nothing about the industry, but came to the job fair that we had in October and then started to talk to some of the packaging engineers. And every packaging engineer in the field are extremely excited and passionate about this. Obviously, they spent like an hour talking to her about all the exciting opportunities. She got an internship right there on the spot two months into the program for the next summer. And then she started to network throughout the fall. And then now she has the next internship for the next summer.
- [51:41]
C
So.
- [51:41]
D
So now we have a student who's basically just finishing at that time, finishing the first semester, and already have two summer internships locked down without knowing a single thing about packaging. Just by not being afraid, talking to
- [51:53]
C
people, we could all learn from that example. I think, Dr. Horvat, I really appreciate that. It's amazing what you can do even when you aren't sure you can do it or don't know if you could do it or can't even envision it. And, Mike, that leads us to you. I appreciate what you've been doing for over 21 years now at the Pallet alliance, seen the organization through all sorts of growth and new team members and tenured team members, and of course, driving innovation across industry. What's one piece of advice you'd offer folks out there?
- [52:22]
B
I would say, and this is more like a global suggestion than one specific to going into supply chain. And that's kind of identify and Embrace your uniqueness and creativity. I'm not trying to say that AI tools and things like this don't have value. They have a lot of value. But if your default move anytime someone asks you a question or you're confronted by a problem is to ask Chad, GPT or Claude what it thinks, what's to differentiate you from the other people? Because it's just going to give you the same answer. And you know, if your go to move when you need to make an email is say hey, drop this email for me. It's going to look the same as everyone else's email. So I would always encourage people to sit down and think what is it I want to say? Or how might I go about solving this problem? Or how does this make me feel before, you know, using those tools?
- [53:13]
C
My excellent. You know, if we are to protect our human superpowers, we need to use develop our human superpowers. It's kind of a version of what I heard you say there. That's great advice. All right. What a great wide ranging conversation. I appreciate what all three of you are doing. I want to make sure that our SCN Global fam can connect with all three of y' all whether they want to bring you. I know you've already got your career lined up, Marta, but they want to reach out and connect with you on LinkedIn or something. Or maybe Dr. Horvat, they want to be a supporter of your program or might maybe they want to learn more about what the Pallet alliance does and how maybe they can benefit from what yard do y' all do out in the industry. So Marta, Marta Gigo, a senior, a graduating senior, a really soon to be graduating senior at Virginia Tech. How can folks connect with you?
- [54:02]
A
I have a link and have an Instagram too but maybe like it's just my name. Where to Gigo? So I'll definitely connect with anybody on there and my Virginia Tech email won't work anymore I that one out but
- [54:15]
C
gotta go to LinkedIn folks find me.
- [54:16]
A
I think my name's not the most basic here in the program of packaging, so hopefully they'll be able to differentiate it.
- [54:24]
C
Outstanding, Marta Giga. Really appreciate that. Congratulations again.
- [54:29]
A
Thank you.
- [54:29]
C
Dr. Laszlo Horvat, professor and now department head in the department of Sustainable Biomaterials at Virginia tech. Congratulations again, Dr. Horvat. How can folks track you down?
- [54:41]
D
I'm also on LinkedIn. Anybody searching for Laszlo Horvat and Pelt? There's not a whole lot of people who is called Laszlo Horvath and actually Works with Pelt all. And then we have the departmental site for sustainable biomaterials where anybody can reach me. And we have a lot of good resources that companies or interested people could use.
- [55:03]
C
Yes, you do. Those that you're nurturing, those that you founded and started. And of course you're not sitting on your laurels as you continue to fuel research innovation in this space. So I really appreciate what you do. Dr. Horvat and Mike Jones. I tell you what, I know we just scraped the tip of the ice but iceberg in terms of really all three of Yalls journeys and but certainly what you are doing at the Pallet Alliance. I know folks can learn more at your URL, which I believe is tpai.com right? Which is shorthand for the Pallet Alliance. So tpai.com how can they connect with you? Mike Jones?
- [55:39]
B
Oh yeah, I can be reached through the website or yeah, like the other two you can find me on LinkedIn. Just Mike Jones and Pallet Alliance. There aren't many of us.
- [55:49]
C
So very unique. There's something to be said for that. Mike, really appreciate you being here, appreciate what y' all do in industry and really appreciate the support you're giving great programs like Virginia Tech and their A plus students like Marta. So thanks for being here, Mike. Thank you folks. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. I think there's lots of good news on a variety of levels and I want to thank again our panel for joining us, folks. Connect with them, see if you can support their journey. See if you can help other students on their path to finding where they belong in this world. It's such an advantage to do that like Marta said early on as a freshman in college. But regardless, thanks for being here. Big thanks to Dr. Stephanie Thomas and wise folks, go check out. Get involved with their incredible work supporting supply chain students everywhere. And perhaps most importantly, we want to thank our friend Tyson Steffens who gone way too soon. But his legacy, which is built on all the mountains he moved while he was here with us, may his family well know the extraordinary difference that he made and that his legacy here continues to make. And with that said folks, you know the homework you have. Take one thing from Mike, from Dr. Horvat or from Marta and there's lots of actual perspective they gave. Take one thing, put it into action, do something with it. Deeds, not words. That's how we'll continue to transform global supply chain. And with that said, on behalf of the entire supply chain now, Team Scott Luden challenge. You do good, give forward, be the change that's needed. Be like Tyson Steffens and this world will be a whole bunch, whole lot better place. And we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody. Join the Supply Chain now community. For more Supply chain chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supply chain now dot com, subscribe to supply chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to Supply Chain now wherever you get your podcasts.