Mike Griswold (3:13)

I have two guesses. I'm going to go Folgers or Maxwell House.

Scott Luden (3:20)

Oh, those are great guesses. Excellent guesses. But they are both incorrect.

Mike Griswold (3:25)

Great. Over two already. Scott, Pete's Coffee.

Scott Luden (3:30)

Alfred H. Pete, the founder of Pete's Coffee and Tea in Berkeley, California, was born in the Netherlands on March 10th back in 1920. Now, some folks may not know Pete's style of roasting beans was later utilized with his blessing by the founders of Starbucks. So some called Alfred Peet the, quote, Dutchman who taught America how to drink coffee. How about that, Mike?

Mike Griswold (3:53)

Very nice. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's interesting when you think about kind of the history of Starbucks. And it is a very rich history, the fact that you have this gentleman kind of start to provide some insights around that. It's fascinating.

Scott Luden (4:07)

It is, it is. And it's also a very strong cup of coffee. Delicious, but strong. All right, from coffee to interplanetary. Little tip of the hat to our beastie boys out there. All right, so, Mike, on this day, March 10, back in 1977, astronomers discovered the rings of what planet?

Mike Griswold (4:27)

Well, I'm hoping I can get this one right. The only planet that I know that has rings is Saturn. So I'm going to go with Saturn.

Scott Luden (4:36)

All right, this is a little bit of a trick question.

Mike Griswold (4:39)

Okay? Now you tell me.

Scott Luden (4:40)

You know, I'm a big space nerd, and my answer would have been your answer, but I'm talking about Uranus. So nine rings, okay? Nine rings were discovered around planet Uranus in 1977. Two more were discovered in 1986 by Voyager 2. And then two more were discovered back in the early 2000s by the Hubble Space Telescope.

Mike Griswold (5:02)

So, Mike, it's interesting because that's not the normal picture you see, of Uranus, Right. I think maybe they have some ring envy from Saturn. And now they want everyone to know that they've got their own set of rings.

Scott Luden (5:15)

So, Mike, we need Dr. Phil in here to talk about interplanetary dynamics. And it's the chip on the shoulder. Chip on the shoulder, Right. Uranus may have. All right, this one might be the easiest one for you. I'm not sure. Oh, we'll see. So finally, on this day, March 10, back in 1996, this musical artist won best album for Jagged Little Pill.

Mike Griswold (5:38)

Not a big music guy, Scott. I've heard of that. Rod Stewart. I. I'm not. Okay, yes.

Scott Luden (5:47)

I'm gonna get a lifeline. Okay, so this would be from a fine country of Canada. So one of our Canadian friends, if that helps any.

Mike Griswold (5:56)

Brian Adams.

Scott Luden (5:57)

Great guess. Great guess for the period. Great guest, because Brian Adams is from Canada, but I'm talking about Alanis Morissette. Alanis Morissette. Okay, so she released Jackie Little pill back in 1996. And some folks may not know, Mike. 33 million copies. This album sold. Good for third all time for female artists behind Whitney Houston number one and Shania Twain number two. And good for 13th. Best of all time, no matter what category. Who released about that 13th. Okay, we will See. That was a lot of fun. I appreciate your good guesses. And that might have to make another appearance later this year. We shall see. All right, Mike, we gotta get to work. The Oscars were just the other night where the big winner evidently was the picture Anora. I have not seen that. Anor a N o r a We Shall See. But we're going to focus on Hollywood in a little different of a way here today. I think we've done this before. It's been a year or so since we did it last time. But as you ponder through movie history, what are three films that offer up supply chain leadership lessons and they didn't even know it. So what's the first one, Mike?

Mike Griswold (7:03)

So the first one, Scott, I want to throw out there in kind of in memory of Gene Hackman, who recently passed away. And it's the movie Hoosiers. I think it provides not only a good kind of memoriam for Gene Hackman, it obviously aligns really well with one of my passions, which is basketball. And it's based on a true story. A small Indiana town trying to make it to the state championship, which is open to all schools of all sizes. There's a segment in there where Gene Hackman, he's the coach of the Basketball team. And he's talking about kind of the value of teamwork, you know, five people playing together, no one more important than the other. And when I think about that movie and I think about some of the messages in there, and I relay that to the supply chain, one of the things that comes to mind is how people define their supply chain. If we think about the spirit of the movie and five people working together on a basketball team, when we look at leading organizations like our supply chain top 25 companies as an example, and I think about how they define their team and how they define their supply chain, those companies, supply chains have a fairly broad definition and they encompass from a span and control perspective, maybe a broader perspective of the supply chain than you might see in maybe more traditional companies. I think if you ask some companies define your supply chain, it's warehouses and trucks. And I would argue that's a very narrow and a relatively immature definition of the supply chain. When we look at our top 25 companies, their team, if you will, plan, source, make, deliver, customer service, you know, the elements of manufacturing innovation is now becoming. It is now becoming part of how these bigger organizations define their supply chain. So the spirit of teamwork, the spirit that even within these broad definitions of the supply chain, no one functional area is more important than the other. They all work together. To me, that's one of the messages within Hoosiers that I think translates well into the things that we talked about all the time around a supply chain.

Scott Luden (9:10)

Mike, I love that. A great starting point. I also agree with you. In fact, over the last few years, as a lot of my friends and family and non practitioners, right, folks outside of supply chain have been wrapping their head around supply chain. A common theme has been, oh, moving stuff, shipping stuff. And it kind of falls in line with that. What I would say archaic may be a little bit strong of a word, but too traditional definition of what supply chain means. I love the more holistic movement of what so many companies have started to embrace. So excellent starting point there, Mike. And then Hoosiers, folks. Norman Dale was the coach that Gene Hackman played in rural Hickory, Indiana. And I'm cheating here, Mike. I've got Wikipedia open here because unfortunately I have not seen Hoosiers yet. Don't judge me, folks. Don't judge me. I'm going to watch it. I'm not going to let Mike down. But love, love the late Gene Hackman.

Mike Griswold (10:01)

Mike.

Scott Luden (10:02)

Tell you, he was a. He was an incredible actor, huh?

Mike Griswold (10:04)

He sure was. I mean, when I think about my favorite movies of his. There's an older one, relatively speaking, called Bat 21. Again, based on a true story. He is a lieutenant colonel or colonel shot down over Vietnam. Danny Glover is in it. They have to navigate him from behind enemy lines to a point where he can get rescued. It also has a great intersection with me because they use a home golf course that this colonel played on as reference points. And as they knew that the North Vietnamese listening in to these communications would have no idea what they were talking about. And then my other favorite is Crimson Tide with Denzel Washington, the submarine movie. It's classic Gene Hackman. It's classic, classic Denzel Washington. And there's lessons in all of these movies around leadership and. And overcoming adversity. But yeah, he was. Some of my favorite movies include him, so.

Scott Luden (10:57)

Oh, man, those are great pools you're getting. Bonus films, folks. Bonus films. Because I'm gonna throw one more in there. Unforgiven. Unforgiven, folks. And get these names for, I think the names of characters. And Unforgiven, it's all about big whiskey Wyoming. Gene Hackman plays Little Bill Daggett. And of course, the one only Clint Eastwood plays, Money. What's his last name? What was his first name? Maybe Will Money. But anyway, folks, if you hadn't seen Unforgiven or crimson Todd or bat21, go check that out. Or Hoosiers, go check that out. Mike, we're getting an extra dose of Hollywood here today. What is the second movie that unwittingly shared supply chain leadership advice?

Mike Griswold (11:34)

So, Scott, the second one, I'm going to ask people to maybe be just a little bit patient as I kind of provide a little bit of context in the movie is actually World War Z, the Brad Pitt movie around a zombie apocalypse. And there's a portion of that movie where Brad Pitt is trying to make his way and lands in Israel because Israel has been able to kind of protect itself by building a wall around the country before the apocalypse actually even hit. And they're having this discussion around, how did Israel do this? Why did Israel do this? How did they know? What did they know before everyone else knew it? It really wasn't that they had this process called the 10th man in a group of 10 people. If nine people all have the same answer or the same perspective, the 10th person has to take a counter position and prove the other nine wrong. So in the spirit of that movie, that's how they ended up. Nine people never felt a zombie apocalypse could happen. This 10th person did. Lo and behold, they built the Wall and were able to, at least in the short term, protect Israel. When I think about in not only in today's environment but just in general and I think about how supply chains are constructed and if we think about even the example we just talked about with Hoosiers and we have this broader definition of the supply chain, we need to create an environment where dissenting perspectives can be heard and be acknowledged. Think about the pandemic, right? And we may have even had this conversation a few years ago, Scott, where no one would have envisioned a scenario or if you put 10 people in a room, nine of them would have said there's no way we are going to have to close retail locations for any period of time. Yet what happened during the pandemic, non essential retail locations had to close. Many couldn't recover. Those that could figure out e commerce kind of bought themselves some time. So in organizations we have to create this environment where even things that might on the surface seem unlikely. Let's say the T word, right? Which I, which we agreed we weren't going to bring into this, but it still found its way in here. We have to be able to create an environment where we can acknowledge some of those things and start to put some brain power against how are we going to solve for some of these problems. Now I'm not sitting here and saying that we need in our risk playbook to account for the zombie apocalypse, but what I am saying is we need to encourage those conversations, right? If I'm a particular type of business, what is a zombie apocalypse kind of quotation figures look like for me, right? Is it a case where I now have Kev lost all sourcing from a particular country? Maybe it's a natural disaster. As an example, think of the earthquake in Japan or some of the tsunamis that we've had, right? The ability to foster those discussions and think about what are we going to do next and have the capability to create some of that antifragility, that's what we refer to it at Gartner. That's important. But that only happens if we create an environment where we can have some of those dissenting discussions and be able to react to them. So I know it's a little bit out there in terms of a movie with supply chain implications, but that particular scene has stuck with me for a long time. When I think about these things that we're going through now with supply chains and how easy it would be for all 10 people in a room to say this is never going to happen. We're not Going to worry about it and then find yourselves having to dig out from under that in ways that aren't productive and artificial.

Scott Luden (15:18)

I think that is one of the timeliest movies that you could actually share here. And the lesson behind it is, from what I see in this highly friction filled environment that we're in, whether it's supply chain or politics or the T word or whatever, and it. And we all gain so much from dissension, right? Especially when leaders can strike the right tone and we can agree to disagree in a real educated, informative, respectful way. So that leads me, before we get to your third movie, I want to ask you one other quick follow up question. Because when I think of the leaders that have impacted my journey and created those types of environments, one of the common thread that they utilized is allowing folks to finish their thoughts. I mean, raise your hand if you work with folks. By the time you get seven words out, they're already telling you how you're wrong or that won't work or whatever. And it's so important and it gives people more confidence when they know that their full thought is going to be allowed to be shared. And I think that is such an important thing that I wish I could see in more meetings and whatnot. Mike, your thoughts or what's the practice you've seen?

Mike Griswold (16:33)

Agree completely, Scott. Someone once told me we should listen to understand, not to respond. And I think we have much more of that ladder where someone hears 50, 60% and then has already assumed what the other 40% is going to be and is already crafting a response to that. Where in many instances that last 30 to 40% a could be the most important part of that conversation and could also be different than what you are anticipating and already crafting a response to. So this idea of listening to understand is to me is huge. It's something I try to do. It's hard, right? Especially I think it becomes even harder when you're around people, the same people all the time because I think you start to inherently feel like you know what they're going to say, right? You've spent so much time with them. I've worked with this department for 15 years. I know how they are, I know what they think, how they think. So when they start talking, I'm already projecting how they're going to finish this discussion and it's a bad habit. Was a great point that you raised, Scott. We need to figure out how to better listen, right? And understand versus just responding.

Scott Luden (17:48)

That's right. And hey, I'm gonna keep it real? A man is always telling me, would you let me finish? So I'm working on mine. Okay? I'm working on mine. So, okay, let's see. We have tackled what Hoosiers can teach us about supply chain leadership. We've tackled the power, the 10th man, so to speak, from World War Z. What's your third Mike?

Mike Griswold (18:09)

The third one, I think is an easy one. And I think there's so many classic lines in this movie. And I think there's a classic lesson in here. It's the iconic Jaws. You know, if there was ever a movie that even if you lived in Iowa and the ocean was, you know, thousands of miles away, if there's ever a movie that made you afraid of the water, period, it was Jaws. You know, I think it's. It's somewhere in the American Film Institute's, you know, top 100 quotes, right? We're going to need a bigger boat, right. That to me, kind of symbolizes when I think of Jaws, right. And I think of it through the lens of the supply chain or through the lens of business, what comes to mind immediately in that particular line is for them, the inability to align planning and execution. There was a plan to take care of the shark until they saw the shark, and then the execution of that was going to be problematic. You know, from its inception. When I think about the supply chain kind of message here, there's a super tactical message which is things like sales and operations planning, right. Which at its very essence is designed to match demand and supply. It's designed to align planning and execution. I think the bigger picture though, for the supply chains is how do we link planning and execution to things like the broader supply chain strategy. And you could argue, I think, right, if we wanted to have some fun with this. The overarching strategy in Jaws was probably fairly well thought out, right? We got a shark, we have a problem, we're going to bring in an expert and we're going to take care of the shark on the surface, that makes a lot of sense. I think the challenge in the movie is as soon as you take a boat into the water, right, Your options are now immediately start to become fewer and fewer in terms of reacting to change. And I think for supply chains, the message here is a link strategy to how you're going to align planning and execution. But also keep in the back of your mind that even though we've got what we feel is a good strategy, a well thought out strategy, and we have a mechanism to align planning and execution, we need to be Able to account for some unknown variables. Right. Some things that are going to happen to us in the middle of this journey. Right. We're going to have to be able to react to them. And how we do that and how we create mechanisms to do that I think is what separates leading supply chains from lagging supply chains. So to me, Jaws was an easy one. When you send over the homework assignment, that was the one I wrote down first. That one came to me pretty quickly and then the other two I had to give some thought to. Hopefully people will find them relevant. But Jaws to me is littered. Littered in a good way with all kinds of life lessons and business examples and then certainly supply chain examples as well.

Scott Luden (21:07)

Yes, two observations there, I guess. One observation, maybe one question, a theme song from Jaws. You know, Donna, Donna, I think we all hear that in our ears at various times as we work through supply chains throughout the year. I think. Secondly question, Mike. Does each supply chain organization need a Quint or not need a Quint? And of course Quint was Robert Shaw, the grizzly old captain, seen it all. Those are probably secret weapons in supply chain organizations, huh?

Mike Griswold (21:36)

Yes, I think for a couple of reasons he's a great character. I think I would also kind of give people a watch out. Right. So, yes, the experience that Quint brought into this, you know, a shark hunter, you know, ex Navy guy, knew the water, knew the boats, knew how to navigate, familiar with sharks. Right. That's the overarching skill set, Right. That you'd want to solve this particular problem. As we get into the movie though, what we start to see are some of the things that you potentially don't want to see in a supply chain person. Right. This fixation on the shark, the fixation on it's my way or the highway. Right. The fixation that I'm not going to ask for any help to the point where he takes a baseball bat to the radio. Right. So it's finding that balance between a resource that has got big picture and has got experience, but also has kind of the flexibility to adapt. And I would suggest that Quint wasn't necessarily the best adapter based on kind of the size of the problem that was was confronting them.

Scott Luden (22:48)

Man, you really know that movie. Almost like hear you scene by scene. I'm really impressed, Mike, if I'm hearing you right, what I heard in your answer there about Quint is trying to find that what can be a tough to find balance between the immense value of tribal knowledge and that dangerous disposition of hey, we've always done it this way, there's a healthy balance there that we all have to find at some point because of course, highly tenured team members, man, incredibly valuable. Right. But especially in 2025 where business velocity and the innovation velocity is at 3,000 miles an hour, we gotta be nimble. I guess. So, Mike, you have one final thought there. I could tell.

Mike Griswold (23:27)

Yeah. One final thought. It goes back to the iconic theme music. And don't quote me on this. Someone I'm sure can fact check me. I think John Williams did the music for Jaws. He also did the music for Star Wars. I think the second most popular is the Darth Vader music. Right. So if you put the Jaws music, the Darth Vader music, everyone, I think, or maybe I shouldn't say everyone, a huge percentage of the population, if you just play that music on either Jaws or Star wars, people are going to know exactly what's about to happen.

Scott Luden (23:56)

That's right.

Mike Griswold (23:57)

We're going to see Darth Vader or we're going to see a really big shark.

Scott Luden (24:00)

That's right. That's a Monday in some organizations around the world.

Mike Griswold (24:05)

Yes, for sure.

Scott Luden (24:06)

All right. And by the way, speaking of John Williams. What? Just a historic hall of famer when it comes to musicians for movies, Superman. There's a new trailer out for Superman featuring that triumphant Superman march, I think they call it. So we'll see how this new version of Superman comes out and what it's like. Okay. So, Mike, I hate to wrap it up. I feel like we need to tackle next time American Film Institute. One difference. We're going have to cherry pick more from their top 100 movies of all time. But as we start to wrap, let's talk about what's coming up next at Gardner because it's almost as big as the Oscars. It's the Gartner Supply Chain Symposium. Almost, almost. Set for May 5th through the 7th in beautiful Orlando, Florida. Hey, supply chain. Now we're pleased to serve as an official media partner for this home run event in 2025. We're going to be interviewing supply chain rockstars over the course of three days. So stay tuned for a whole bunch more there. And Mike, we've talked about symposium. You know, it's one of the most popular supply chain events each and every year. But I'll tell you that planning events are approaching its popularity, it seems. But I want to ask you if there was a segment of our audience that had never heard of Gartner Supply Chain Symposium. Right. Maybe they're brand new to industry or whatever. If you had to think of your favorite reason why they should consider joining us in Orlando, what would that be?

Mike Griswold (25:22)

Mike I think, you know, we, and I'll raise my hand and obviously not the most objective person when it comes to this question, Scott, but we bill it and I think it's true. The world's largest gathering of supply chain professionals, we will have, you know, north of 5,000 people, all with some passion around the supply chain. So not only do we have what I think is a very diverse set of sessions and speakers for people to listen to around both strategic challenges and then solving tactically challenges, but I think it's just a, it's a huge networking opportunity to meet people with similar challenges, to hear from people with similar challenges. It's a great way for people to recognize that many of the challenges that they're facing, they're not alone, that there are thousands of other people that look just like them wrestling with the same challenge. And we try to provide some thought provoking ways to solve some of those challenges. But we also hear time and time again that the opportunity for people to connect with each other is oftentimes as powerful as hearing what we have to say on particular topics. So it's just a huge collection of really smart people talking about topics that really resonate with people that are, you know, in the supply chain day in and day out.

Scott Luden (26:39)

I think that tops the list. For me. It's so important. You know, I think the pandemic still has so many lingering effects and I think one of them that I see time and time again is its impact on people. And sometimes we can kind of self isolate professionally and view maybe our challenges like in a vacuum, right? Or with a, maybe an unrealistic level of uniqueness. And I'm telling you, when you get out to these events like the symposium and really meet folks, break bread, lean into discussions and those opportunities, you really realize you're not on that island. Really. You come back with tons of ideas, tons of new ways of looking at old and new challenges and it makes our industry better. So, folks, we're going to drop the link, but Gartner Supply Chain symposium and expo, May 5th through the 7th in beautiful Orlando. And if you attend, make sure you give us a heads up. And by the way, we've talked about this before, Mike. It's the best supply chain happy hour on the planet, which is usually that first at the end of each day, I think. Okay, Mike Griswold, how can folks connect with you? Maybe they want to bring you in, have a keynote or compare notes or whatever. How can they connect with you and the gartner team?

Mike Griswold (27:47)

Sure. LinkedIn. I'm trying to do my best to keep up with that. Email's probably the most efficient, at least for me. Mike Griswold@garter.com Love to hear from people around. Maybe other topics you'd like Scott and I to talk about. There's questions you might have around Gartner, around the supply chain. Just happy to connect with people.

Scott Luden (28:03)

Love that. Hey, take us up on that. And I would add to Mike's answer. Let us know your movies that teach life chain lessons. We'd love to explore that in a future episode too. Mike Griswold, always a pleasure. Thanks for being here Mike.

Mike Griswold (28:16)

Oh, thanks for having me. Looking forward to next month.

Scott Luden (28:19)

I am too. So folks, hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. I always love these monthly chats with Mike Griswold, but here's your homework. Yeah, you've got homework. You have to take one thing that Mike shared here today and put it into practice. Share it with your team. Lots of opportunities all out there of how we can change how Supply Chain happens today and tomorrow. But it's powered by deeds, not words. So with all that said, on behalf of the entire Supply Chain now team, Scott Luden challenging you. Do good, get forward, be the change that's needed. And we'll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody.

Mike Griswold (28:52)

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