Public Health Supply Chains Need Redesign: Bigger Band-Aids Will Not Work

Summary

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Supply Chain Now Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Public Health Supply Chains Need Redesign: Bigger Band-Aids Will Not Work
Date: August 12, 2026
Host: Scott Luton
Guests:

• Don Hicks (CEO, Optilogic; Founder, Llamasoft)
• Taylor Wilkerson (Executive Director, Design for Life)

Theme:
This episode explores the urgent need to redesign public health supply chains, focusing on how incremental fixes ("bigger Band-Aids") are insufficient for lasting impact. Highlighting the nonprofit Design for Life, the discussion covers how modern technology, especially AI, can empower local healthcare supply chain professionals, create sustainable improvements, and dramatically expand healthcare reach—particularly in countries with limited infrastructure and resources. The dialogue is driven by a sense of mission: saving lives through improved supply chain design.

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Guest Backgrounds and Mission

Don Hicks ([11:27])

• Pioneering supply chain leader; founded Llamasoft (1998), now CEO at Optilogic.
• Early experience in Africa (Liberia, Cote d'Ivoire) shaped his perspective after witnessing dire conditions firsthand: "I was shocked when I went into the hospital... they don't have any medicine there." ([12:22])
• Passionate about using technology to maximize health outcomes in resource-constrained environments.
• Optilogic provides its commercial tech for free to non-profit use via Design for Life.

Taylor Wilkerson ([09:24])

• Mechanical engineer by background, shifted to business and the public sector supply chain.
• Extensive work in global health supply chains, e.g., with the Gates Foundation and field projects in Pakistan.
• Focuses on supply chain design not for profit, but for maximizing reach, equity, and impact: “It’s not about turning profit... It's about, given your budget, how many people can you reach? How much medicine can you deliver? Doing that in an equitable way.” ([01:58], [17:13])
• Leads Design for Life, focusing on practical, lasting change.

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Key Insights & Discussion Points

Why Public Health Supply Chains Need Redesign

• Old Systems, New Needs:
  Many supply chains for public health were built decades ago, relying on manual processes and outdated infrastructure ([16:57]). Networks weren't designed for today’s demand surges or advanced tech.

• Consequence of Failure:
  “If you travel a full day and get there, and they say, I'm sorry, we don’t have what you need, you’ve wasted a day... it makes you less likely to go back a second time. So there’s an erosion of trust in the healthcare system itself.” — Taylor Wilkerson ([38:14])

• World Context:
  In many parts of the world, public sector healthcare is the only option; governments are responsible for everything from hiring clinicians to procuring and delivering medicines ([23:43]).

Moving from Band-Aids to Redesign

• Incremental vs. Systemic Change:
  Real breakthroughs in health outcomes require not just better management of current networks but actual redesign—"pushing the efficiency frontier" ([23:43]) by re-thinking infrastructure, inventory, transportation, and data flows.

• Empowering Local Experts:
  “Empowerment doesn't mean I tell you what to do. It means I can do it for myself... They know the systems better. They live in these places.” — Don Hicks ([50:50])

  • Local professionals understand unique challenges and constraints far better than external consultants.

• From Shelf Studies to Action:
  Many public health studies generate recommendations that go unimplemented because of resourcing, time constraints, or lack of practical transition. Design for Life seeks to close this gap by making tools accessible and actionable for in-country professionals ([28:02]).

The Role of Technology & AI

• Two 'Earthquakes':

  • (1) Withdrawal of major U.S. government health aid (e.g., USAID): “The United States has said, screw you, we're not going to pay for anything... The Lancet is predicting that there’ll be about 14 million excess deaths... due to our government choosing to no longer fund these public health efforts.” — Don Hicks ([31:27])
  • (2) Advancements in AI:
    AI now offers “an extreme democratization opportunity.” It drastically reduces the need for specialized technical skills—allowing local managers to ask, in plain language, scenario-planning and optimization questions. ([41:25], [44:17])

• AI Enables:

  • Removal of technical barriers: “The learning curve... is almost flat at this point.” — Taylor Wilkerson ([41:25])
  • Native language interfaces (Swahili, Portuguese, etc.)
  • Real-time, iterative analytics and simulation via conversational interfaces (no more “user interface crap”) ([44:17])

• A Vision for the Future:

  • AI will empower local staff to redesign supply chains, respond to crises, and avoid dependency on outside experts.
  • “You get to save human lives from the design of the software or from the design of the system.” — Don Hicks ([23:43])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mission and Equity:
  “It's about… how many people can you reach, how much medicine can you deliver, and doing that in an equitable way.” — Taylor Wilkerson ([01:58])
• On Systemic Change:
  “You can make the best of it, but you can't make breakthroughs unless you change the actual design of the system itself.” — Don Hicks ([23:43])
• On Local Ownership:
  “The people doing this every day… are the people best suited to take these tools, ask the questions, look at the results, and interpret the results…” — Taylor Wilkerson ([48:19])
• On AI & Accessibility:
  “The best user interface is none.” — Don Hicks ([44:17])
• On the Stakes:
  “If you have somebody who is not getting the healthcare they need... There's a ripple effect. It’s not just about that one person missing one dose of medication, it’s what happens to that person, what happens to the community, what happens to the trust in the overall system.” — Taylor Wilkerson ([37:06])

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• Introductions & Guest Backgrounds: [04:35] – [15:04]
• Design for Life Mission: [16:49] – [21:03]
• From Crisis Response to Systems Design: [21:03] – [23:29]
• Why Empower Local Teams: [28:02] – [50:37]
• Digital & Data Challenges in the Field: [16:57], [41:25]
• AI’s Democratizing Power: [41:25] – [44:17]
• Impact of Funding Cuts & Systemic Risks: [31:27] – [37:06]
• How to Help / Action Steps: [52:22] – [54:00]
• How the Work Impacts the Guests Personally: [54:52] – [57:36]

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How Listeners Can Support

• Donations:
  Visit designforlife.org for options—both one-time and recurring.
• Partnerships:
  Organizations with complementary technology or working in the same countries are encouraged to collaborate ([52:22]).
• Volunteering:
  Supply chain professionals or others who wish to contribute expertise are welcome ([52:22]).
• Spreading the Word:
  Simply sharing the mission can make a difference ([53:13]).

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Personal Reflections from the Guests

• Taylor Wilkerson:
  “Every day when I'm done... I can look at what I've done that's going to help one more person get the medicine they need, one more person get the healthcare they need.” ([54:52])
• Don Hicks:
  “Serving somebody in need makes you better in every way... The why is because you can affect human health. And the question then is... why not?” ([56:05])

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Closing Challenge

“Take one thing... do something with it. Deeds, not words... that's how we're going to continue fighting the good fight and saving a bunch of lives.”
— Scott Luton ([61:00])

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Find and Support Design for Life

• Website: designforlife.org
• Email: [e-mail] (for Taylor Wilkerson)
• LinkedIn: Search for Taylor Wilkerson and Don Hicks
• Corporate site: optilogic.com (for commercial collaboration)

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Transcript

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[Taylor Wilkerson]

Our mission is to really help improve these supply chains so they can reach as many people as possible. It's not about turning profit or how much revenue the supply chain can make. It's about given your budget, how many people can you reach? How much medicine can you deliver? Doing that in an equitable way. So you're not just delivering in the urban areas. You're not just delivering to people who have resources, but really making sure that an entire country, entire community is getting access to those medicines.

[Scott Luton]

Welcome to Supply Chain now the number

[Don Hicks]

one voice of Supply chain.

[Scott Luton]

Join us as we share critical news,

[Don Hicks]

key insights and real supply chain leadership

[Scott Luton]

from across the globe.

[Don Hicks]

One conversation at a time.

[Scott Luton]

Hey good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be. Scott Luton with here on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to to Today's show folks. We have got a wonderful show teed up here today where I'm going to be talking with two industry leaders that are part of a noble mission to ensure that families around the world can live healthy lives. Today's conversation is going to certainly showcase what we already know, the power of global supply chain to truly change the world. Now we're going to be diving into the mission, including how we can make an even bigger impact by designing a better system rather than just applying a bigger band aid. We're also going to take a look at how AI and modern technology continues to play a bigger role in the NGO and healthcare delivery space, which is helping to scale efforts to help those families in need. All this and much, much more. So stick around folks for a great conversation that's going to offer up tons of actual insights by the truckload and including how you can jump in and support the mission. So I want to welcome in our esteemed guest here today. First up, Don Hicks, who has been moving mountains in supply chain for years. Many of you will know that Don founded Llamasoft in 1998, but he started a variety of consequential companies, including Optilogic, a leading organization when it comes to supply chain design, where Don serves as CEO here today. Joining Don is Taylor Wilkerson, who has also been active in global supply chain for quite some time. Taylor has served in a variety of leadership roles including with ASCM and cscmp. He also serves in intriguing roles in both the supply chain tech space as well as the nonprofit world. You're going to enjoy learning from Don and Taylor's perspective here today. I want to welcome in Don Hicks, CEO of Optologic and Taylor Wilkerson, Executive Director of Design for Life. Don, how you doing today, Scott?

[Don Hicks]

I'm doing better now that I get a chance to talk to you and you're getting all of your audience, it's great. Thanks for having me back.

[Scott Luton]

You bet. You're way too kind. It's great to have you back. We really enjoyed your appearance from the Buzz. We gotta have you back on there as well and you're bringing friends. Taylor, great. Great to see you today. How you doing?

[Taylor Wilkerson]

I'm doing well. Thank you for having me today.

[Scott Luton]

You bet. I really appreciate, all kidding aside, the, the work you all do in industry, but of course how you support noble causes that are challenging some of the, you know, issues of our time. So it's great to have y' all both here today to talk about that. So. But let's do this. Don, you know how we do things around here and Taylor, you're going to find out how we do things around here. We're going to start with a fun warm up question. Right. And so Don I tell you, we could take this in a million different directions with you. We were talking pre show about some of your passions, but you shared something with me, with us a few minutes ago. Tell us about what your love for music has led you to. Maybe a new endeavor. Tell us more.

[Don Hicks]

Yeah, so it's a combination of my love and interest of music, of great food and bad business decision making. And it's where we got going was you were kind of poking around at how do we warm things up. And I'd mentioned that I was practicing trumpet in the back room over there. He said, do you play in a band? And I said, more than that. It's not well known, but I'm the proprietor of the Blue Llama Jazz Club and restaurant in beautiful Ann Arbor, Michigan, which over the last seven years has become one of the finest jazz venues in the world. It's my pleasure to work with that team. And we get to meet great musicians and we get to eat great food. And we're making it happen for. For folks both Ann Arbor and now regionally and nationally. Blue Llama Jazz Club is atbluellamaclub.com. go check it out.

[Scott Luton]

Man, that is awesome. We're going to make my first trip up to Ann Arbor soon. And that is fantastic stuff. You can't go wrong when you mix good music, good people, and good food. I mean, it's like the perfect intersection.

[Don Hicks]

So good you can go get it. You can get there wrong, as it turns out. And we're continuing to try to get it right. So that's just. Trust me, if. If you take one. One hard thing like make a jazz club work and then another hard thing like a restaurant. And then my theory was two wrongs really do make a right. And so we put it together with. With love of food and love of music with the two capital Ls.

[Scott Luton]

Don, I love it. Love it. All right. So Taylor, you know, we went on fact finding mission in the pre show, learned something new about both of y'.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

All. And.

[Scott Luton]

And one of the things I learned about you was even though you grew up in Alabama, where it's much like Georgia, we don't get much snow and ice. You have found a love for hockey later in life. And I think you've got two kids that are playing hockey in leagues and whatnot. Tell us more, Taylor.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

Yeah, it's. You know, when we moved up to Nashville, when I went to school there, had some friends dragged me out to a few of the minor league games there before the Predators were there. And I caught the Bug. And so since we've been up in the Washington D.C. area, my wife's a big hockey fan too. So we get to go to lots of games here and watch the Caps win the cup one year and then also suffer through many years of disappointment since then. And then I, our daughter and a son that are playing hockey. I think my daughter is the one that impressed me the most. She didn't even ice skate. And her freshman year in college decided to join the women's hockey club and went in, learned how to skate, learned how to play hockey, and it's been her, her main hobby since.

[Scott Luton]

Wow. Okay. Well, you know what, when you say Washington, you're talking about Washington D.C. at least they left your hockey team in town. My home city of Atlanta, we've lost, I think two teams over the years, I guess because we stunk up the joint so bad, so. But it sounds like regardless when you go to a game, folks, I don't watch a whole bunch of professional hockey, but when you go to a game is such an awesome experience. And Taylor was hooked from the very beginning. All right, so Don and Taylor, a lot of good stuff. We got it. We got to take a hard right turn and no more music in sports because we got a big noble mission to dive into. But I want to do this. And Taylor, I'll start with you and stay with you for a moment. I think Yalls backgrounds, it's really important for our audience as they learn about the mission and really where your roles and your superpowers are playing a role in the nibble mission. Taylor, would you give us a high level overview maybe of your background and your professional journey?

[Taylor Wilkerson]

I started life as an engineer, did mechanical engineering in school and worked as an environmental engineer for several years. And when I decided that wasn't what I wanted to do with my life, I went back to business school and really had a great professor, Kurt Grimm at University of Maryland, who I spent a bunch of time with trying to figure out what part of business I wanted to go into. And he really directed me towards supply chain and can't thank him enough for what he did doing that for me. Since graduating, I've been working in supply chain, primarily with public sector. So looking at supply chain as, you know, whether it's defense or healthcare, the areas that really serve the public. And that's where I got my start, getting into healthcare supply chain and then working at global health supply chain. I had the opportunity to do some work with the Gates foundation as they were looking at introducing new vaccines and how that changed the dynamic of the vaccine supply chain when you're going from inexpensive, widely available vaccines to expensive, not widely available vaccines and how that changes your whole operation from there. Had the opportunity to do work in a lot of different countries and really changed my perspective on supply chain to think about how does supply chain serve people and how does it improve the lives of people if you can improve the supply chain. And that's been a main focus of my career ever since then.

[Scott Luton]

Taylor, I love that I didn't gather all that from you in our last conversation now at all. All the dots are getting connected now and of course you serve as executive director for Design for Life, which we can talk more about in just a minute. Now, Don, as I was introducing you, I think a lot of folks will recognize you for, you know, founding and growing llama soft and the impact it's had on industry. But what else do you. Would you like folks to know about your professional journey? Sure.

[Don Hicks]

So you know, the llama soft stuff is out there. I started that in 1998, ran it for about 20 years. Thought I was kind of done with commercial work and, and supply chain and got into jazz clubs and within a few years later, you know, I've always been into operations research. I love it. So the connection running through this is actually my relationship with or so I studied operations research at the US Military Academy at West Point. That was where I got my degree back. That was during the Rutherford B. Hayes administration. And actually while I was at West Point, between my junior senior year, I did a sort of a external internship called Crossroads Africa, which was the forerunner of the Peace Corps. I got to spend a couple of months on the ground in Liberia and a little bit less in Cote d' Ivoire and Ivory coast and out there working in a rural area, I had the misfortune to both get malaria and dysentery and I got to live through all of that. So I got to experience the healthcare system in Monrovia, Liberia and I got to know, you know, how things are done there a little bit and, and the struggles. I was shocked when I went into the hospital there and they don't have any medicine there. They tell your family, hey, you're going to need this, this and this. And then they send them on out to go buy it and bring it on into the hospital. And I never forgot that experience. And as well the experience of the incredible health care delivery people that were there. And years later, Lomasoft had started to grow and started to be become the leader in supplying supply Chain design, network design kinds of tools and technologies and we had an opportunity to work with this, this incredible organization called John Snow Inc. And JSI was working with the, the U.S. deliver project to do logistics and supply chain for a lot of struggling health ministries throughout Sub Saharan Africa. They were kind of everywhere but focused on where people needed it most. And so over longasoft we just started this little practice of trying to help people, trying to take what we knew about supply chain design, make sure we were there for jsi. We worked with the World bank, we had a beautiful relationship with an organization I loved called usaid, may it rest in peace. We put it in the wood chipper apparently about a year and a half ago and as a result a lot of people around the world are no longer getting antiretrovirals and essential medicines. So at llamasoft we had this lucky. We had this practice as part of the for profit side and later on with Optilogic as it started to grow I had wanted to find places to back and a good friend of mine, Carlos Valderrama, he and I shared this passion and this vision and he got this organization going and sadly Carlos passed away last year and he wanted this organization to continue. So you know, Taylor is here to pick up the torch. I'm here to keep backing it with technology from Optilogic. But Design for Life is a non profit and what it really means is it's just out there to help. There's no such thing as competition, there's no such thing as sales or revenue. It's about making impact. And I'm getting into a little bit into Taylor's side. I'm sure he's going to share with you more about that organization.

[Scott Luton]

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[Scott Luton]

could share with us Taylor in your view the problem that you're trying to solve that unfortunately many folks in the world just don't see it.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

Don touch on a bit of just that experience of being in a healthcare system in a country that doesn't have a well developed healthcare system. For me, it really was one of the first projects I did in this area in Pakistan and I was used to what a lot of us in the supply chain community are used to. You go into a warehouse or a facility, there's technology, there's communications equipment. I went into a regional distribution center and they had one room that had electricity and that was the office. They had a phone on the wall. They had an IBM desktop computer that looked like it probably belonged in a museum versus there in a distribution center. And it really made me rethink what supply chain means and put into context of what delivering medicine in a country where the infrastructure is limited looks like. It's a challenge because when we talk about things like visibility and technology, putting that into a context where when you ask somebody for their inventory records, they pull out a big log book or ledger book, it creates a different view of what can be done in those supply chains and how to improve those supply chains in the way they deliver. And that's really our core mission. I think since that time there's been a lot of advances in mobile technology and mobile communications that have brought the technology capabilities to most places in these supply chains. And what we see is that sort of an intersection of there's this capability out there, but a lot of these supply chains are still running on a network that was designed back when everything was manual, back when there wasn't a lot of information. And so what our mission is is to really help improve these supply chains so they can reach as many people as possible. It's a bit of a Different perspective in that it's not about turning profit or how much revenue the supply chain can make. It's about how many, given your budget, how many people can you reach, how much medicine can you deliver, and doing that in an equitable way. So you're not just delivering in the urban areas, you're not just delivering to people who have resources, but really making sure that an entire country, entire community is getting access to those medicines. And the way we do that is through providing these design tools and optimization tools that are allowing the people running those supply chains to rethink how their supply chains are designed, to find those efficiencies, find those improvements, and to go through the process of implementing them, take ownership of their supply chain, take ownership of how they can continue improving and growing their supply chain, and again, making a difference in terms of the healthcare being delivered in country.

[Scott Luton]

Taylor, that's very, very helpful. And as I'm hearing you and Don talk about design for Life, there's the fishes and the loaves element at play here, right? And you, you kind of spoke directly to it. Taylor, how can we use the power of design and, and meeting all of these incredible healthcare professionals where they are in their communities, help them serve more folks and reach more people in need? Don, before I continue. And by the way, we should also. I didn't realize Carlos Valderrama, who'd passed away last. Last. Let's let this, you know, want to give him a. A moment. I really appreciate what he contributed and his leadership and, and I think what y' all do today, honor his legacy. Don. Right?

[Don Hicks]

We love him, we miss him, and, uh, the world was better off for having him be here. And his legacy continues.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

His, his vision is what created Design for Life. And it is, it's just, you know, a pleasure to be able to continue that vision and continue, you know, what he had started here.

[Scott Luton]

Let's do this. Taylor, I'm stick with you for a second here. You know, a lot of organizations, a lot of individuals respond after a crisis occurs, right? And we all appreciate that, right? But as they say, I think it was Benjamin Franklin. Don't check me on that. Don't. It wasn't brother Rutherford B. Hayes. I know it wasn't that, but I think it was Franklin that said an ounce of prevention's worth a pound of cure, right? So, Taylor, Design for Life, from what I'm hearing and learning, seems really focused on preventing those crises through better system design. If that's true, and tell me if I'm wrong, but why is that shift so important.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

Taylor, first of all, it is true. I think I'm a big believer that the best way to respond to a crisis is to have a good supply chain and a good system to build that response on. I think especially with within healthcare, though, there's another aspect to it, which is if you are giving people preventative medicines, if you are keeping people healthy in general, then you have a community that's going to be more resistant to a health crisis, whether that's a natural disaster or disease outbreak. But the second part is if you have designed your supply chain to reach as much of the community as possible, and you've designed a supply chain with agility in mind so that if there is a surge in demand, that you have the flexibility to meet that demand from multiple locations, reroute supplies, et cetera, then you have a really much better foundation to build that response. On top of a great example that we saw several years ago was Ebola outbreak in West Africa. And what you saw was a lot of the problem with the response is the healthcare systems and the supply chains just got overwhelmed with the demand because they weren't designed with that capability to respond in mind. They weren't designed with the agility in mind. That's what we want to help countries to build, is that robust supply chain that you can meet the needs of people every day, but also provides a foundation of when there is a crisis. You can rely on the capabilities of the supply chains, the people, the infrastructure, the communications and visibility and data management all the way through to support the response so that getting the product there isn't the problem or isn't the thing you're worried about. It's getting out and working with the people, treating the people that are being impacted.

[Scott Luton]

Well said. Taylor. And Don, what would you add? Taylor's describing a very robust foundation, wanting to build that with all those on the front lines, you know, serving folks in need. What would you add to this shift we're talking about?

[Don Hicks]

You may not be aware, for the folks that are out there, you know, the US Has a sort of public private hybrid. There's a robust role for healthcare in the US Healthcare system, for private insurance, for this, you know, for HMOs, for, you can go out and purchase a lot of medicine, but there's also a system and your health care is generally paid for. If you're employed through these insurance schemes in the poorest parts of the world where there are literally billions of people who live, there is no private health care system at all. All health care comes from Largely the public sector. The government employs doctors. The government is responsible for acquiring and procuring all the medicine and then distributing it. And it's never enough. So we're really talking about in the places with the folks who are the worst off economically, their health is entirely dependent on their country's public health care system. And so when we are talking about where can you make the biggest impact on these things on human health, it's the public health care network. And so one thing that also might surprise people is that the supply chains that these people are managing, they're not any less sophisticated than complex supply chains anywhere else in the world. They are still logistical networks where you procure and you distribute and you have to forecast and you have to plan. So the level of sophistication and complexity in the decision making is the same here or there or in the public health network. So that also means that they have the same issue that all supply chains have, which is a need to both manage and optimize my current network, but also redesign and change that network. You're constrained by your current network, and we might call that current network a design. And you can make the best of it, but you can't make breakthroughs unless you change the actual design of the system itself and you push that efficiency frontier further on out. And folks who've tuned into your show in the past have heard some of this stuff before. It still applies. It's still spot on with public health. So when Taylor's talking about the changes they need to make, how can I make these systems more robust? You have to have the basic system of managing these things and making the best of them. But these guys still have the task as well of analyzing and changing the system. And so Design for Life is specifically focusing on what we would think of as analytics and design in these public health spaces. And it's even more critical there than anywhere else. They have so few resources. If they can push their efficiency frontier. And out there you get. So you are saving human lives from the design of the software or from the design of the system. So Design for Life is trying to bring all the best from the commercial world, from best practices, and we bring it over there. Not because these public health supply chain operators, they're not unsophisticated, they're wicked smart. They are making the best of a really, really difficult situation. But we can help them by bringing in what we know from optimization simulation and now from AI.

[Scott Luton]

There's a lot. There's a whole series of both yalls responses there we all have finite resources. Right. And we all have. Every system has its own constraints. And I really appreciate your comment there about sometimes we got to start over and, and redesign these systems, and that's the only way we can get around some of the inherent constraints. Let me ask you all this. And I've learned that one of Carlos Valderrama's points of view was that he saw way too many public health studies sitting on shelves collecting dust rather than driving action. So, Taylor, when it comes to, I don't know if we call that the policy side, I'll defer to the experts. But how do you see design for life changing that dynamic?

[Taylor Wilkerson]

Yeah, and that's really an important thing that, that I know Don and I have both seen over the years working in global health, is that there are a lot of studies, some of them even geared towards sort of academic studies that had a lot of good ideas. But you end up at a point where you've done this study, you've created a set of recommendations, and you're leaving it there for the local team to implement. And as Don said, it's not a lack of capability, it's usually a lack of time. A lot of these supply chains, the staff is spread pretty thin. They don't have the time to say, we're going to try, we're going to do something new, we're going to do a big new project. Or as I'm sure a lot of folks have seen with studies like this, you get into the implementation, you say, oh, there's another piece we need to analyze. Here's another piece we need to model, or a different idea we need to model. But what's been left behind is recommendations, not the tools to do that next piece of analysis, not the tools to support the implementation as the environment changes. A lot of those studies had good ideas. They had a lot of really good recommendations. It was just that handoff and transition to implementation that was the gap. What we want to do is we want to not be just doing the analysis. We want to help the people running the supply chains in country to do the analysis. We want to give them the tools, the capabilities they need to understand their supply chain so they can use those tools on a repeated basis, so that as they come against new problems, as they look at refining and implementation, they have the tools that are available to them. And that's really where our philosophy is, that we don't want to be the ones doing the analysis. We want to support these teams so they can be taking a more strategic view of their supply chain so that they can easily ask those questions of what happens if I change my network design? What happens if I want to open a new facility? Where should I put it? They shouldn't have to rely on external donor or external consultant to come in and answer some of those questions when the tools are available. So our goal is to make the tools accessible both from a usability standpoint and from a cost standpoint, to support those teams and really make that an internal capability. And I think Don could talk a lot about how many optologic customers that I've worked with have an internal design team of people who are doing this kind of analysis. And that's really what we want to help to create, is not necessarily a full team, but that internal capability to ask these questions and rethink the design of the supply chain.

[Scott Luton]

Don, based on what Taylor shared there, do I have it right? It seems like to me that one of the many things that Design for Life is doing is helping these organizations on the front line, doing this, carrying out this noble mission, helping them operationalize the studies have been sitting on the shelves or the. The outcomes analysis tells them they should be doing is helping them make that happen. Is that right, Don?

[Don Hicks]

Yeah, well, there's. There's two massive earthquakes that have completely changed this field and this industry that have happened basically in the last year and a half. Okay. When. When Taylor's talking about these sort of studies on the shelf, or, or Carlos was referring to them most of the time over the last, at least in my last 30 years of experience in this place, a lot of these studies and analytics are done from outside agencies. Okay. They bring in the funding and then they. The funding. And then they also have the strings attached to say, well, we're going to do a study. And so they bring in external consultants because people from outside want to help. And there's been a, I think, not a lot of empowerment of the people in country, not a lot of trust to bring them along. They said, well, we're from the outside and I've got a fancy degree and I'm going to trust my own consultants. So a lot of these studies, fine work that's been done, but it's been dropped on, on top of things. But those two earthquakes are changing everything. And earthquake number one was the destruction of usaid, because now they're just not getting aid from the United States anymore. The United States has said, screw you, we're not going to pay for anything. You can take care of it yourself. That's some serious tough. I wouldn't call it love. I would say it's a crisis because these countries don't have a choice. And the Lancet is predicting that there'll be about 14 million excess deaths. Two million of those will be children, due to our government choosing to no longer fund these public health efforts. That's up Armageddon. And if you're going to look at a bright side in this one, it is that these health ministries are now they know they're not going to get help from the United States. They have to do it themselves. And so the need has never been greater. It's tremendous and huge and scary and they have no choice. They have to rise up, sink or swim. And for them, sink means millions of deaths. The other earthquake, though, is AI. And if we were thinking that we were going to get folks in these public health ministries to set up and learn modeling and learn optimization and data and processing and all this kind of stuff, they just don't have the time to do it. They don't have the setup and the infrastructure and they're firefighting. But they still have design questions. That's where AI comes in. And I am absolutely AI crazy AI bullish about what it's doing for design and analytics. What we see is combining AI with the availability of data with LLMs that can actually interact and understand what you mean and then turn around and use tools. It is an extreme democratization opportunity where people with who think about public health but don't have any data training should be able to go back and forth and ask questions and analyze and say show me my network and what if this happens and what about this change? And AI can be employing and managing and using supply chain technology. This is coming to the commercial world, but it may even get to the public health world first. And then hopefully this clear then where I'm coming from, which is Optilogic, as a technology vendor, have said for non commercial use, everything's free. This is, we are, we're a partner of Design for Life, who's out there in the front line getting these projects and working with these teams. Optilogic takes its commercial technology, we donate it all, we want people to use it and there'll never be a charge for any of that stuff. And as AI gets deployed later this year, we think we're going to see a change where people who are on the ground in Rwanda, people who are on the ground in Zambia and Tunisia and in Cote d' Ivoire and in Kenya and in Tanzania, they'll be able to have access to, to the Same cutting edge technology for design and analytics that Coca Cola and Walmart and Nike and Ikea and General Motors and these guys can do. It's a scary, terrifying time to see the human cost. But it's also a tremendous opportunity to change this and have all of these countries, and they're the people in these countries empowered and enabled to push their supply chains ahead and make them sustainable and resilient.

[Scott Luton]

Well said on a variety of levels there, Don. Taylor, I want to circle back though, because Don really I'm going to circle back to AI in a second. I want to back up for just a second because Don really answered a question I was going to pose to both of y'.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

All.

[Scott Luton]

When it comes to when healthcare supply chain fails in, in some of these places that are truly are at risk and are and, and can be overwhelmed, you know, what, what does that look like? I think both of y' all are in a unique position to have seen that and I think that drives a lot of yalls mission and what you do today. Taylor, in your view, when we can't meet the demand of the situation. You mentioned a couple of, of moments in time earlier, in earlier response, what happens? I mean, Don's talking about that first earthquake and the, the 14 million, which is just heartbreaking A lot of children, which is even worse. But Taylor, what would you add to the, you know, the cost if we

[Taylor Wilkerson]

do nothing in a few different levels first is that immediate cost. You know, somebody shows up at a clinic, they don't have the medicine they need. That's a missed vaccination for a child who's now at risk for catching an easily preventable disease. That's a mistreatment from somebody who has a chronic condition that could make that condition worse. That's missed maternal care for an expectant mother. That's so, so there's that immediate cost of you have somebody who's not getting the healthcare they need. There's a secondary cost to that. If it's, you know, somebody misses a medication that prevents the transmission of hiv, you're now putting people around them at risk. So there's sort of and same if you're missing a medication that's going to cure their TB and now that they're still contagious with people around them. So that secondary cost of somebody missing health care has an impact on the community around them and it has a larger impact on the community when people aren't healthy, they're not able to care for their families, they're not able to support their communities. Whether it's in agriculture or other jobs, they're. They're not able to contribute the way they should if they were healthy. And there's also a piece that, that I think a lot of people don't recognize, which is in a lot of these countries, clinic, the, the clinic is not like your, you know, minute clinic that's down the street. It is. People travel a full day to get to a clinic, to get treatment. And if you travel a full day and get there and, and they say, I'm sorry, we don't have what you need, you've wasted a day. You've taken a day away from your family, from your life. It makes you less likely to go back a second time. And so there's an erosion of trust in the healthcare system itself, which leads to fewer people seeking out care on their own. So there's sort of this ripple effect of. It's not just about that one person missing one dose of medication. It's what happens to that person, what kind of risk do you put them and what kind of risks do, what happens to the community, what happens to the trust in the overall system? So that's why, you know, when I look at it, it's really important to do everything we can so that anytime somebody walks into a clinic, needs a medication, needs a treatment, needs a test, they get it because it's available. These are, and most of the time, these are not expensive products. We're talking about vaccines that are less than a nickel a dose. We're talking about antibiotics that are a penny a pill. It's not the cost of the product, it's getting it there and putting it in the hands of the clinicians and the patients that need it.

[Scott Luton]

As we get towards the end of today's conversation, we're going to make sure you all know out there if you're in position to help address and support Design for Life and what the team is doing, changing lives, saving lives, in many ways not being dramatic, we're gonna let you know exactly how you can do that. All right, so going back to AI, I'm not sure, Taylor, but I kind of gathered that Don's a bit passionate about the power of AI I don't know if you gather that too.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

I've had a couple conversations with him.

[Scott Luton]

Yeah, but Taylor, I'm gonna start with you and then I'm get what else Don wants to add. When you think of the power, I mean, look, it goes without saying here in this golden age of not just supply chain tech, but just life tech, right? AI has been an incredible transformational tidal wave of change. Right. There's still, there's some powerful outcomes out there and then there's, there's some folks, there's a lot of noise and fluff and it confuses, I think it creates a lot of chaos in the marketplace. But we're going to stay on, on the positive power, powerful force, powerful side of AI. So how do you see tailor AI democratizing supply chain design for these healthcare organizations, these nonprofits, these NGOs and others especially to what the point, what you're illustrating that don't have not only not the large technical teams, but they don't have the large technology wherewithal like the warehouse you were talking about, you visited earlier. Taylor, how do you see AI changing the game there?

[Taylor Wilkerson]

The way AI allows us to interact with these tools. So a year ago, if you were using modeling software or design software, you had to have somebody who understands the tool and to set up a scenario, who knows which buttons to click, what numbers to put in, where to be able to kick off that scenario. We did a prototype using the apptologic ADA agent in creating a modeling tool. And it takes all of that and puts it into a chat box where you can say, what happens if I remove this warehouse? That's all you have to do. It runs a scenario and then when it comes back with the answer, you can ask follow up questions, why is inventory lower in my baseline than this scenario where I remove the warehouse? And it will tell you exactly why. And that's really where we see this huge opportunity. Because the learning curve, the training needed to get people up to speed on using design tools is almost flat at this point. There's some need to understand how design fits into the supply chain strategy and what these tools do and don't do. But in general, there's not a lot of training needed in terms of once the model's up and running, how do you get answers out of that model? The other piece that's really exciting is that the front end piece of how do you build the model to begin with? Again, a year ago, the answer would have been you need somebody to look at your data structure and be able to convert that data structure into the format that's needed to be able to upload into the model. We're now at a point where if you know the data structure coming out of the logistics system you're using, it's almost push a button and it pulls that data in to update or create a model. And so it's really taking the need for specialized technical knowledge out of the equation. And that's where I get really excited about the ability for the managers in these countries to be able to quickly grab these tools and get results from using them.

[Scott Luton]

Taylor, thank you for your approach there. I can be a little bit slow to the, to the ball game sometimes, but all of that makes perfect sense to me, especially when I think of the speed to action, speed to decision, and if we can limit the learning curve of how we use this powerful technology, we can be helping people so much faster. And that was just part of the equation you shared there. Don, I know this gets you excited. It kind of gets me excited. What would you add to what we heard there about the power of AI in this noble mission?

[Don Hicks]

There's a lot to fear out there regarding AI, but an unbalance. I view the opportunities way outweigh that in these specific application areas. What's, you know, one of the struggles, and Taylor touched on it a couple of different. A couple of different times. Exactly. Correctly. We have to teach people, we have to train people. But to what, think about supply chain? No, they think about supply chain all the time. We have to train them how to use a stupid tool or how do I click on this button or how's this user interface? The best user interface is none. And what LLMs have done is to make it that that's the next generation. You can skip over all the user interface crap and get straight into let's have a conversation. And what's more, let's have a confirmation, a conversation in Swahili or Portuguese or Spanish or French or, you know, you name it. There's so many languages in Africa and we get all of that now through this LLM technology. And it's not just a push button, but it goes back and forth. Now it's wrong to think, in my view, that AI, the platforms we see have supply chain expertise. They don't. What we see is an emerging architecture is using LLMs to do this human interaction, to do that white collar work. But they turn around and then that LLM layer is going to partner up with a deep supply chain expert. LLMs go broad, but these niche areas like supply chain, you got to go deep. So where we're doing and what we're focusing on in Optilogic is going deeper. The reason we name it ADA is. ADA's the supply chain expert. Okay. And it's there to back up all of this layer up here. That means you don't really use software anymore. It is a tremendous, tremendous breakthrough here. But you have to put the right tools with the right job and you know, the training. For what it's worth, Scott, I think in the future shifts away from how to use tools to where it should be. How do I think clearly about supply chain issues? You know, Taylor, I was, I was wanting to say preach it brother Taylor, because he's talking about, you know, if there's a moment of truth, patients there, they need some medicine. The medicine's not there. Why is it on a truck? Is it stuck in a warehouse? Is it someplace else? Is it that the con, it's not in the country because they couldn't afford it. All of these tasks in the future, I believe, start shifting towards thinking about the system itself, thinking about the integrated supply chain and that's where it should be. And I think these public health networks are going to get there maybe faster than anybody. And Design for Life is out there pushing that ahead and leading the way.

[Scott Luton]

You know, as you were sharing some of your perspective there, I thought of like a modern day approach to the five whys, right? Where instead of reacting and fixing the, the problem as it happens today, Wednesday or whatever day it is building a different system so it doesn't happen anymore. Right. Getting, truly getting the root cause and transforming how we can serve this massive need. I mean it really is, it's overwhelming to think about what both of y' all been sharing. So let me, let me, we kind of, we're starting to come down home stretch. But I want to, I want to get y'. All, this is something that y', all, one of you mentioned earlier on and I want to revisit it for a second. So one of yalls aspects of your, your aim, your mission, your strategies put these sophisticated planning tools into the hands of people closest to the problem. I love that and I love that T shirt ism you shared. Don. The best user interface is none. That's a good one. And Taylor, I'm circle back to you here. Why is empowering these local decision makers so much more effective than relying on these outside disconnected experts?

[Taylor Wilkerson]

Two things. One is anybody who's worked with consultants before knows that outside experts get expensive quickly. And so if you're doing a big end to end review, maybe it makes sense to bring in outside experts. But you're not going to have want to bring in outside experts for your weekly S and O P planning, your weekly, you know, your monthly design relook at your supply chain or quarterly relook at your supply chain because it's expensive. And the second piece, I think Don alluded to is these are people coming from the outside who don't necessarily have the same context and connection with this healthcare supply chain and with the people it serves. And third, the people who are doing this every day, who, who are immersed in what are the challenges of the supply chain? What are the locations that do things well versus locations that need a lot of improvement, the locations that have modern infrastructure versus locations that may be aging and need repairs. Those are the people best suited to take these tools, ask the questions, look at the results and interpret the results in terms of what's possible. When you put it in the hands of the people who are doing the job, they can do this kind of strategic analysis more frequently. They can ask questions and follow on questions as they get through implementing changes and as they get hit with crisis, which we referred to earlier. They have the tools available to say, okay, I've got an outbreak of malaria in whatever district. Can I run a model that has a 50% increase in demand for malaria goods and test my supply chain to see if I'm going to be able to respond or if I need to start doing something differently? That's not something you have time to find an outside expert to come in and help with. That's something where you need those people to have the ownership, have the tools available, have the expertise in those tools that they can, you know, quickly run it and it becomes a 10 minute question that they can go back up to leadership and say, yes, we're good, or look, we have a problem. We need to rethink how we're going to respond to this if it gets any worse.

[Scott Luton]

Don, what would you add in terms of the value of empowering these local decision makers that are, you know, that, that are the local subject matter experts of what the need is and how to, how to meet it?

[Don Hicks]

The fact is they know the systems better. They live in these places. When they get sick, they are getting treated from their own healthcare system that creates a natural accountability. Empowerment doesn't mean I tell you what to do. It means I can do it for myself. You can do it for yourself. And you know, the development world has needed some wake up calls. It didn't need to be destroyed, but it absolutely needed a lot of reform. And what's happening now is the opportunity. I mean, there's no other way around it. There's no help coming. So these folks who are running these public health networks, they are not dumber than the consultants that come in. They are as smarter, smarter and certainly more resourceful. But they know the system, they have more skin in the game. And what we need to do is in a support role, give them access to the technology that we're selling here in the west and selling in the more developed countries because their need is greater and it's the right thing to do.

[Scott Luton]

Well said. All right, so let's make sure we're really crystal clear for our SCN global fam out there that there's so much goodness, there's so many different ways that supply chain leaders and this powerful global community answer the call. And I'm hoping that we can generate some more support for this incredible work that you are doing. So, Taylor, how can organizations or individuals support Design for Life and its mission?

[Taylor Wilkerson]

You can go to our website and there's the ability to donate to our mission directly there. You can also reach out to me, directordesignforlife.org if you have other questions about how you are wanting to support the organization or questions about our mission. We're also always looking for partners to help us to take our mission further. Whether it's companies who think you have a technology that could complement what we're doing, we'd love to talk about that. Or if you're an organization that is working in some of these countries and thinks we can help to accentuate your mission, love to talk about that as well. And you know, always looking for volunteers who want to help to contribute. Always happy to talk to folks about that as well.

[Scott Luton]

Outstanding. And Don, what would you add?

[Don Hicks]

Design4life.org Go to the website. You can donate now. They take donations through the website. Designforlife.org is a 501c3 US charity. Yes. That's tax exempt. You get to get a tax write off while you're doing good. Design for Life takes money from donor advised funds. It can work and partner with charitable organizations in commercial companies. And indeed, if you're a logistics supply chain professional and you want to get on this, go there, sign up, start following them, start interacting with Taylor and you'll get the call, man. We'll get you involved with something. So money time. Get the word out. Design4life.org go check it out.

[Scott Luton]

Outstanding. Don and, and Taylor, I really appreciate it, folks. Design for life.org I'm staring right now at several options on the site of how you can get involved at, at a, at a, a smaller level or at a grand level. Right. You heard Taylor and Don both speak to some very practical ways and what they're looking for. So the need is great and it requires action. Not lip. Lip Service, leadership, and I hope that we can generate some of that here today. All right, so, Don and Taylor, I got two final questions for you. Taylor, start with you here. How has, you know, what you've done? And Taylor here, in your professional journey and healthcare and NGOs, I mean, this has been something you've been doing for quite some time, but specifically with Design for Life, how has your involvement impacted your life? How are you? How are you better off today?

[Taylor Wilkerson]

I've always been a big proponent that supply chain can do good in the world. And at Design for Life, that's certainly what we're trying to do. But I think the difference is at Design for Life, our goal is really to work directly with the people running the supply chains. And there really is much more of a direct impact than I see of what we do because it's not, you know, a couple of stages removed from the impact. We're working with the people who are running the supply chains. We're helping them answer the questions that they have. We're helping them reach more people. And, you know, for me, it's, you know, every day when I'm done with work, I can look at what I've done that's going to help one more person get the medicine they need, one more person get the healthcare they need. And that just is something that I can look back on. And it has really been just really meaningful for me as I've been taking

[Scott Luton]

on this role that really resonates, really resonates. And Don, I've got a sense of, of how this has shaped your life and a lot of your responses here today. But to put a really fine point on that.

[Don Hicks]

Yeah.

[Scott Luton]

How are you better off from your good work?

[Don Hicks]

Well, look, this isn't something separate, this is part of it. One of the things we say at Optilogic is we don't live to work, we work to live. And this area, trying to help, trying to get involved, supporting Design for Life, which is then supporting people in need, it provides an answer to the most important question that we face in work, which is why? Why do we work? Why do we do things? What's meaningful? I think we're making a terrible mistake when we say it's important for me to put myself first and, you know, I'm not going to worry about you. It's a mistake to think that that makes you stronger. When you put other people first, you learn about service and serving somebody in need makes you better in every way. And so it answers the question, why? Why do we work? Why does this matter. The why is because you can affect human health. And the question then is, is really why not? Why wouldn't you go do it? Why wouldn't you do the right thing? It makes it all go in line. When we go out there, we work hard, we make profits, we love it. We love, we love making money. But why do we do this? We do this for our families. But we are here to make the world better. It's not just a trait cliche. You can do it. And this for all of us at Optilogic, we love partnering with Design for Life. It reminds us why we're doing this. Because we can.

[Scott Luton]

I am with you, Don and Taylor. What a, what a great conversation. Better yet, what a, what an incredible mission. And there's so much more we can do. And I'm hoping that members of our audience is going to heed the call and jump in and help amplify and grow your mission. So let's do this. Taylor Wilkerson, Executive Director, Design for Life We've mentioned the URL a couple of times. Design for life.org folks, go check it out. But how can folks connect with you, Taylor?

[Taylor Wilkerson]

So I'm pretty easy to find on LinkedIn and also [e-mail] Send me a note. Happy to talk with folks.

[Scott Luton]

Outstanding. And I gotta tell you, I enjoy Taylor's perspective regularly on David Shilling. David Schillingford dropped something on LinkedIn that's thought provoking just about every day.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

Yeah.

[Scott Luton]

And oftentimes, yeah, he really is. You can find Taylor adding his two cents in some great comment conversations. So folks, if you can't find them, check that out. But Taylor, good stuff. And Don Hicks, beyond the Blue Llama in Ann Arbor. Is that the Blue Llama? Is that right?

[Don Hicks]

If you want to give me an earful, stop by the Blue Llama Jazz Club on Main street in Ann Arbor and I will buy you a drink and then I will listen to everything you've got to say about Supply Chain.

[Scott Luton]

Love it. And other than that, where else can folks find you?

[Don Hicks]

You can find me on LinkedIn. You can hit, hit me up through the [e-mail] you know, I work closely with Taylor and Design for Life. Anything that you reach out to him, we'll find my way. And Scott, I want to say you're one of my supply chain heroes because you are putting this out there and you're getting the word out. Not everybody does that. I wanted to thank you because you are doing your part today, Don.

[Scott Luton]

I appreciate that. And we have an incredible team. You know, Joshua's handling production today and we're a lot of what you and Taylor described, you know, I sign off with a little cliche to some, you know, each and every episode, but it really, there's a ton of action and intent behind that and I think you and Taylor both embody it and I hope in some way shape or form when folks, you know, long after we're gone here at supply chain now folks will appreciate that we have put our, our actions where our mouth is. At least that's the intent. So we'll see we're all measured in some ways shapes and forms. But hey, what a great conversation here today, folks. Design for Life, what an incredible story. Big thanks to our guests here today, Don Hicks, come on back next time. Bring your trumpet and the whole band and we'll make some different music. But great to have you here, Don.

[Don Hicks]

Thanks. And we're all remembering Carlos at this moment as we are going forward and his family. Scott, Taylor, it's great talk with you guys.

[Scott Luton]

Appreciate it, well said. And I appreciate how you are supporting his powerful legacy. And Taylor Wilkerson, thanks so much. You know, I'm so glad we connected and you said, hey, we've got this great non profit mission I'd love to come on. And it was like, hey, it made perfect sense and I'm, I'm better off from really hearing the story and the why and what you're doing and how folks can, can jump in to support it from both y' all here today. So Taylor, thanks for being here.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

Thank you, Scott. And as Tom said, thank you so much for bringing us on the platform and highlighting the work that we do. It's important work and I'm a supply chain nerd through and through and we'll always love talking about it, but I think it really is, it's fun being in a place where you can see the supply chain work. Really doing good in the world.

[Scott Luton]

Well said. So folks, big thanks to Don and Taylor to our SCN Global famous. Hope you all enjoyed this conversation. A lot of inspiring moments, invigorating moments. If you're in position, I know that there's lots of needs out there, but I tell you, if you're in position to support the noble mission at Design for Life, we welcome your involvement. You can learn more at design for life.org and let me throw this out there, folks, never take me up on this. If you support a monetary donation, let's say more than $5,000, right? Let's set the bar high or if you bring your neck, network or technology. And I'll let Don and Taylor, they'll be the, the judges. But if y' all get behind the fight, let me know and we'll, we'll put a show around it. Okay. I'll throw that challenge out there. So, but, but more, more importantly, we'll see if that happens. No one ever takes advantage of that. We'll see if that happens. But you got homework. Take one thing, I tell you, Don and Taylor shared a lot of good stuff. A lot of, you know, stuff behind what we do. You know, why we do what we do, right? Take one thing, do something with it. Deeds, not words. That's how we're going to continue fighting a good fight and helping a lot of folks and saving a bunch of lives. So with all that said, Scott Luden, challenging all of our wonderful audience members out there, hey, do good. Give forward. Be the change that's needed to be just like Don and Taylor, the world be a better place. And we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.

[Taylor Wilkerson]

Thanks, everybody.

[Don Hicks]

Join the Supply Chain now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and and innovation, check out supply chain now.com subscribe to Supply Chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to Supply Chain Now. Wherever you get your podcasts.