Podcast Summary: Supply Chain Now
Episode: "Reverse Logistics in the Spotlight: Innovators Turning Returns Into Revenue"
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Scott Lewton
Guests: Sean Cleland (B. Stock), Rich Bulger (All Things Circular)
Overview
This episode of Supply Chain Now features conversations recorded at the 2025 Reverse Logistics Association (RLA) Leadership Summit in Dallas, TX. Host Scott Lewton interviews two leading innovators: Sean Cleland, VP of Mobility and Asset Recovery at B. Stock, and Rich Bulger, Founder and Chief Circularity Officer at All Things Circular. The discussion dives deep into the innovations transforming reverse logistics—including technology, AI, and data analytics—and examines a paradigm shift viewing returns not just as cost centers but as significant revenue opportunities.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Innovation in Reverse Logistics and Returns Management
Guest: Sean Cleland (B. Stock)
- B. Stock’s Model Explained
- B. Stock is a platform enabling retailers, brands, and manufacturers to efficiently move excess or returned inventory into secondary B2B markets through auctions or bulk sales. Data from transactions informs smarter, more strategic programs.
“Retailers... use our platform to decide how to sell [inventory], where should it sell, in what quantity... and then we use all that data to make really smart decisions…” — Sean Cleland [03:05]
- B. Stock is a platform enabling retailers, brands, and manufacturers to efficiently move excess or returned inventory into secondary B2B markets through auctions or bulk sales. Data from transactions informs smarter, more strategic programs.
- AI’s Transformative Role
- AI-driven tools now predict inventory value, inform insurance and warranty offerings, optimize resale, and drive contract negotiations around returns—making the process more strategic than ever.
“Now we’re using AI to inform decisions far more forward in the supply chain... predicting secondary market values, having better offers for insurance and warranty…” — Sean Cleland [04:27]
- AI-driven tools now predict inventory value, inform insurance and warranty offerings, optimize resale, and drive contract negotiations around returns—making the process more strategic than ever.
- Reverse Planning Trends
- Economic pressures have pushed finance organizations to scrutinize every business area, bringing more collaboration and innovation into reverse logistics, historically a “shadow” part of the business.
“...the flashlight goes on reverse which is normally kind of in the shadows. So right now... much more collaboration than in a typical period.” — Sean Cleland [07:30]
- Economic pressures have pushed finance organizations to scrutinize every business area, bringing more collaboration and innovation into reverse logistics, historically a “shadow” part of the business.
- Strategic Shift in Approach to Returned Inventory
- Customers are no longer only asking ‘what can you get me for this item?’ but ‘what should I do with this inventory?’—a sign of maturity and strategic thinking in reverse logistics.
“It’s becoming a more strategic question rather than the tactical ‘gimme, gimme, gimme.’” — Sean Cleland [09:20]
- Customers are no longer only asking ‘what can you get me for this item?’ but ‘what should I do with this inventory?’—a sign of maturity and strategic thinking in reverse logistics.
Timestamps
- B. Stock’s purpose and impact: [03:05–04:01]
- Rise of AI and data-informed decision-making: [04:27–05:15]
- Retailers’ shift from mere resale to proactive planning: [05:48–06:55], [08:36–10:44]
2. The Rising Value of Circularity and “More Returns”
Guest: Rich Bulger (All Things Circular)
- Personal and Professional Journey
- Bulger shares how personal adversity (bullying, martial arts) shaped his resilience and discipline, which has translated into his professional ventures (Verizon, Cisco, author, founder).
“Martial arts gave me a discipline to go through and prepare for the military... It taught me how to control myself. In the end, that really is the only thing you can control.” — Rich Bulger [16:54]
- Bulger shares how personal adversity (bullying, martial arts) shaped his resilience and discipline, which has translated into his professional ventures (Verizon, Cisco, author, founder).
- Redefining Returns as Revenue Opportunities
- The standard thinking has long been ‘drive returns down.’ Bulger argues that in circular business models, returns can and should be driven up as a revenue source (e.g., trade-ins, buy-backs, product-as-a-service).
“In a circular economy... you’re actually trying to compel returns up... returns now are a revenue center as well.” — Rich Bulger [20:23]
- The standard thinking has long been ‘drive returns down.’ Bulger argues that in circular business models, returns can and should be driven up as a revenue source (e.g., trade-ins, buy-backs, product-as-a-service).
- Education Gap in Reverse Logistics
- There is a striking lack of formal education for reverse logistics, contrasting with more mature supply chain programs. Most practitioners learn ‘in the deep end.’
“It’s the most complicated part of the supply chain, and there’s no education on it.” — Rich Bulger [27:16] “Of over 400 people, [I’ve asked how many were] formally trained in reverse logistics—just one. And they were the instructor!” — Rich Bulger [33:59]
- There is a striking lack of formal education for reverse logistics, contrasting with more mature supply chain programs. Most practitioners learn ‘in the deep end.’
- All Things Circular: Ecosystem Approach
- Building education, resources (book, glossary, whitepapers, podcasts), and community to foster best practices and innovation in circularity.
- Massive Industry Impact
- The U.S. sees $890bn worth of unwanted returns (2024), up from $350bn pre-COVID; the secondary market is now $800bn+, meaning 30% of the $5.2tr U.S. retail economy flows through reverse—yet few are trained to manage it.
“1.6 trillion of a $5.2 trillion industry—30% flows through reverse logistics, and no one knows how to do it.” — Rich Bulger [35:51]
- The U.S. sees $890bn worth of unwanted returns (2024), up from $350bn pre-COVID; the secondary market is now $800bn+, meaning 30% of the $5.2tr U.S. retail economy flows through reverse—yet few are trained to manage it.
Timestamps
- The call for education and new thinking: [17:53–22:40]; [27:16–29:06]; [33:19–33:59]
- Pivoting mindset about returns: [19:23–21:12]; [38:24–38:53]
- Industry stats and impact: [35:51–37:57]
- All Things Circular’s mission and offerings: [41:05–41:55]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Shifting Industry Mindset:
“Now the question coming to us isn’t what do I get for blank? It’s what should I do with this stuff? …It’s becoming a more strategic question.”
— Sean Cleland [09:20] -
On Industry Education:
“Of over 400 people, [I’ve asked how many were] formally trained in reverse logistics—just one. And they were the instructor!”
— Rich Bulger [33:59] -
On Returns as Opportunity:
“There’s some returns you want to drive down. But now in the circular programs, you want to drive some returns up. It’s what I do every day.”
— Rich Bulger [20:23] -
Industry Stats Wake-up Call:
“1.6 trillion of a $5.2 trillion industry—30% flows through reverse logistics, and no one knows how to do it.”
— Rich Bulger [35:51] -
On the Mission of All Things Circular:
“What All Things Circular is designed to do is create a space for a conversation…”
— Rich Bulger [17:53]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- B. Stock’s Approach to Reverse Logistics & Tech [03:05–05:15]
- AI & Data Impact on Reverse Management [04:27–05:15]
- Trends in Retailer Reverse Planning [05:48–06:55]
- Strategic Shift in Reverse [08:36–09:20]
- Shifting to Circular Revenue Models [19:23–21:12]
- Industry Education Gap [27:16–29:06], [33:19–33:59]
- Massive Industry Stats [35:51–37:57]
- All Things Circular Community & Offerings [41:05–41:55]
Call to Action & Community Engagement
-
Practitioner Challenge:
Rich Bulger invites listeners to suggest topics, concepts, or challenges they want addressed in the upcoming “Leaders’ Guide” edition of his book.“If you have thoughts and ideas, things you wish you could say to the CEO of your company about what you do... let me know and I’ll put it in the leader book.”
— Rich Bulger [42:27] -
Get Connected:
- Sean Cleland: Find him on LinkedIn or via B. Stock’s website.
- Rich Bulger & Team: Visit allthingscircular.com for resources, podcasts, and training. LinkedIn is his "safe space” for networking.
Tone & Style
The episode is friendly, conversational, and deeply insightful, blending personal anecdotes with industry analysis. Both guests emphasize the need for community, education, and a fundamental rethinking of reverse logistics—as not just a cost to minimize but a revenue and sustainability engine for businesses.
Summary Takeaways
- Reverse logistics is rapidly evolving due to AI, proactive data use, and innovative business models.
- Industry leaders urge a shift from viewing returns as losses to welcoming certain returns as part of circular, value-generating economies.
- There is a pressing education gap—most reverse logistics professionals are self-taught or learn on the job.
- The scale of returns and resale now occupies a massive share of the retail economy, warranting much greater strategic attention.
- All Things Circular is pioneering education, community, and thought leadership in this under-served but critical field.
- Practitioners are invited to participate in shaping its future—especially around training and executive-level communication.
For listeners new to supply chain and reverse logistics, this episode offers an engaging primer on where the industry is heading—and how professionals are turning yesterday's afterthoughts into tomorrow's competitive advantages.