← Supply Chain Now
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A
This technology is going to be parallel to Internet for people like us. We use Internet so commonly. And what's going to happen is we're going to wake up on a daily basis. We're going to have a bunch of prompts that we will either send out or will be sent out on our behalf because of whatever, you know, workflow and algorithms we have.
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Welcome to Supply Chain now the number one voice of Supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership from across the globe, one conversation at a time.
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C
Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be. Scott Lewton and the one and only Tevin Taylor here with your own supply chain now. Welcome to today's show. Hey, Tevin, how you doing today?
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D
I'm doing great. How about you?
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C
I'm doing wonderful. It's not 117 degrees in the Atlanta area, so I'm doing okay today. We're in the probably in the 91s which is okay, huh?
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D
You're lucky. Dallas is 105 today. So we're hot.
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C
Oh my gosh. Well, hey, that's almost as hot as this conversation we've got coming up. Big, big show here today. We're going to be exploring some of the latest applications of artificial intelligence across supply chain. We're going to be diving into the common challenges of pilot paralysis. Stay tuned for more on that. We're going to look at how AI when applied in a targeted and appropriate manner, well, it can offer almost immediate results, big impacts for your team. We're going to be taking a look at the upskilling and the reskilling that's often required for workforces to optimize their approach to AI across the enterprise. And this might be my favorite part, we're saving it for last. We're going to be looking deep into our crystal ball and offering up an accurate glimpse of what the next five years may look like when it comes to AI manufacturing and end to end supply chain. All that and a whole bunch more. Tevin. We're promising the cake and the ability to eat it too here today. But we're going to deliver on time and full, aren't we? We are, no doubt, as always. So folks, stay tuned for a terrific conversation. And Tevin, given all of your leadership and expertise and contributions across global supply chain, look forward to your insights and commentary as well. So folks, lots of actual takeaways ahead. Tevin, if you're ready, if you're buckled up and got your socks pulled up and ready to go, I'm going To introduce our wonderful guest here today. You ready?
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D
Let's do it.
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C
All right, so our featured guest folks, he brings more than 25 years of experience in supply chain to the table, especially in areas like technology, logistics, transportation management, trade compliance and planning. And folks, don't sleep on your trade compliance professionals. They're terrific resources in your organization. Our guest is a trusted service and sales leader and he's built and led all sorts of high performing teams from the ground up. They've really moved mountains out in industry. And get this, our guest is a fellow Aggie. He holds several engineering degrees including a master's degree in industrial engineering from. That's right, Texas A and M University. Go go Aggies. So please join me in welcoming our featured guest here today. Gaurav Malhotra, partner and supply chain technology leader with Ey. Gaurav. How you doing?
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A
I'm good, Scott. How are you?
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C
I am outstanding. I'm not quite as. So you're up in Chicago, so you're starting to get some cooler weather. You. We were talking about it earlier. I bet in about a month it's going to be perfect to be dining outside of Chicago, huh?
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A
It's just a very, very beautiful time of the year, honestly. You know, both weather wise, you know, everything that goes around here in Chicago, the amount of events and social settings, you know, that the city has to offer, I mean, you just can't ask for anything better, right though.
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C
I'm with you. And of course the food, Tevin, the food up in Chicago. Oh my gosh, you can't beat it, can you?
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D
No, I, I love the deep dish. That's my favorite pizza up there. One piece will fill you up for the day, right?
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C
That's right. And you have to work out extra.
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A
Cuisines, wise you, you all know, right, I'm in Chicago. You name the cuisine and you name, you know the type of restaurant you. You want and, and you find it right here since.
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C
No doubt. No doubt. All right, well, I would love to spend the next hour picking your brain on all things Chicago, especially food. But there's something else I want to ask you about, Garv, and that is you had a terrific family vacation, really a pilgrimage to Kauai not too long ago. Tell us more about what comprised of that visit.
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A
Yeah, it's interesting, Scott, that you ask about that, but me and my family, you know, have been following this monastery as disciples of the monastery for 20 plus years. And the monastery is based in Kauai, up in the mountain in Kapa. And you know, we Feel very fortunate and blessed to be associated to it. So to your point, you know, this is just a few weeks ago we had our annual pilgrimage. So, you know, that's our annual tradition to be able to go there. And we make this a bit of a pilgrimage and a little bit of a vacation, you know. You know, where we break the day up and do all the things monastery related that we're supposed to be doing, including service, etc. And then, you know, given kids, we keep some, you know, part of the day for other things, you know, related to social and, you know, enjoyment and stuff like that. We've just been very fortunate, you know, to have that format, to have that affiliation and all the teachings, you know, that's come out of that to us as a family, essentially, given the supply chain topic that we're talking about here, you know, just a connection that you may find interesting.
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C
Sure.
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A
So the monastery actually has a temple there that is fully hand carved, built over decades. It's a one of a kind in the world, honestly. And it has had its own set of supply chain uniqueness tied to it, given it was hand carved in India, brought over across the ocean by very skilled artisans who then were, you know, coming over decades to Kauai and finishing the unfinished, you know, stones and then assembling them. Yeah, because there's only a few of them that are all over the world that can actually do things like that. And now it's fully assembled, a marvel, you know, of its kind that hopefully a lot of people, you know, get to go witness and enjoy and get the blessings from, essentially.
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C
Oh my gosh, Garth, I'm so glad you shared that with this. It's a, it's a great introduction to some of your values. And of course you wove in supply chain because there's a supply chain behind everything. And one thing Tevin, that I love that he mentioned on the front end of tell us about that trip is including his kids so they can see the values and the call to service he mentioned. What a terrific, terrific pilgrimage. Tevin, respond. React to what we heard there.
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D
To your point. There's a supply chain behind everything. I mean, you know, most people, including myself, before I got into supply chain, you just think something appeared there or it happened there. You didn't realize all the pieces that go in place. And especially something on an island, you assume that's where it was, everything was done. You didn't think it was done somewhere else and brought over. I love that because everything can go back to the simple pieces and Parts that go into a supply chain to make something look complex, but it evolved from somewhere else. Right.
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A
If I could, Scott and Tevin. So that's, you know, one side of the supply chain and years or decades that's come to build something like that. You know, one other experience that we had during this trip was, you know, we were there when tsunami hit, you know, out in the coast of Russia that and then traveled through the ocean and, you know, there were all kind of tsunami warnings and stuff.
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C
So.
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A
So we had to evacuate under mandatory evacuation. And this was the first experience with something like that. But there as well, again, another type of supply chain challenge that need to be accommodated, reacted to, that was unforeseen, if you will, which is what we see in today's world around macroeconomic, macro, political, geopolitical, etc. Conditions. So much uncertainty that has to be reacted. It was honestly very fascinating to see how local authorities at a moment's notice, you know, reacted to what they need to react to and managed everything, getting everybody to safe grounds and then getting them back in a matter of less than, you know, 10 hours or so. Right.
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C
Wow. You know, it is fascinating, Tevin to Grav's incredible experience. He and his family had the humanitarian logistics and those professionals that have really been able to really dial that in and level it up to do incredible things now. And really, the greater supply chain efforts that go around responding to these awful, awful disasters, it is nothing less than amazing. Huh?
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D
I agree. You know, there's a lot of logistics out there that's not just for profit. Right. And this is a great example of humanitarian need and taking care of each other. At the end. That's what logistics is about, is taking care of each other.
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C
That's right. And I got. I can't go further. I got to give a plug to great nonprofit partner of ours, acronym is allen. That's the American Logistics Aid Network. And they do outstanding humanitarian work all around the globe. So give Kathy Fulton and the Allen team a call. All right, so, Garv, back to our topic at hand. I tell you, I'm looking forward to when your book's coming out because you've got more than 25 years of industry and consulting experience, what you bring to the table. And a lot of that, of course, as I mentioned earlier, supply chain trade, planning, compliance, and tons and tons of technology. So I want to level set for just a minute. Tell us about your role at ey. And we know EY does a lot of things in global supply chain, but give us a couple of highlights of what are some of your favorite things that the organization does to serve this industry and push it forward.
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A
So as it relates to role, Scott, as we mentioned, I'm the supply chain technology leader for the firm. And what that entails is basically helping establish the overall strategy for us as a firm in line with market trends, in line with our client expectations, particularly when it comes to technology leverage, technology embracement within supply chains and how that moves the needle, particularly for our clients to develop the right competitive advantage, differentiation, value creation elements at a highly strategic and bold level, essentially. And in the process, someone like me works with a number of other parts of our firm. You know, we call that bringing the power of the firm, you know, even in supply chain related transformations that is required to, you know, fully serve our clients in a holistic manner. From strategy to, you know, process to execution to some cases, you know, downstream operations based on the need of the hour. Now, the point around what EY does, particularly on the supply chain side, I would simply summarize that by saying that we help our clients create the right value and the right outcomes for their supply chains in an integrated, holistic manner that moves the needle for them as an organization, their shareholders, and ultimately serving their customer base in a highly, highly efficient manner.
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C
Garb. Okay, we can make a whole episode around your last response and there's a couple things I want to pull out Tevin and get you to and also hear what your thought there was competitive advantage. It's amazing. Supply chain has always been able to create competitive advantage, but now it's expected to and now it has such a unique and powerful ability to deliver it in very powerful ways. We can start and stop with just delivery service levels. Right. And then secondly, no islands of excellence. Did you hear as he talked about getting the right outcomes in an integrated and a holistic fashion? As I like to ponder a lot, Tevin, in this golden age of supply chain tech that G can could probably share a whole bunch of perspective around. You know, we have a terrific opportunity to go bust down silos, but in some cases we're creating more silos because of all the capabilities we have. But Tevin, what'd you hear there in what Garv does? And of course the role EY plays in global supply chain.
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D
You know, I was never smart enough to be a consultant. Anderson Consulting helped me pay for some of my college. But I love what they do because he said it quite clear. The right outcomes, the right value. I think of Stephen Covey. You think with the end in mind, right so what's the outcome you're trying to get to, but using the power of the firm? Because everyone that's operating in supply chain right now, they're doing it the way they've always done it. It's very hard to move the ship. Someone like EY comes in and says, hey, let me not only tell you about your supply chain, but talk about the technology and the end to end. So it's not just pieces of your business. We're going to look at the whole thing and look at outcomes and value. That is very powerful just in what you said. And the makes me a little jealous I didn't go into consulting.
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C
Well, you know, you could. You. You could have been very successful, Tevin. I've seen you work.
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A
But.
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C
But Garf, kidding aside, I'll tell you, as the fearless supply chain technology leader in this age of truly, it's remarkable what we're accomplishing, moving just one element, you know, moving so much from reactive to proactive mode. Right. It's one of my favorite big time trends. It's an amazing time to be in supply chain tech right now. Gaurav. Is that right?
- [13:39]
A
Oh, you know, you can't find a better time. And I think Tevin just said that someone like me thinks about technology, and this includes emerging technology, the topic it had here around AI, as well as just an enabler. Right. But those enablers today that are real practical in nature to move supply chains to what I call towards a more cognitive, more reliable state. I say this word autonomous is overused, so I like to not use it as much. And hence I say towards a more autonomous. I'm sorry, towards a more cognitive and reliable state. It is just so very real in times of today. Now, when you club that with the complexity of supply chains and the uncertainty that supply chains are having to react to that have almost become second nature, given everything that is going on around us, whether that's nationally or globally, it just becomes a very, very complex but fascinating space and challenge to work through.
- [14:47]
C
That's right. Completely agree. All right, so let's bring the power. That's another phrase that Garf used that we're going to have a lot of fun with throughout because he's bringing the power of technology to make things better in global supply chain in a very holistic manner. Let's get into AI adoption in supply chain. We have a lot of conversations around this because I think the more examples, more use cases, the more really practical stories that we can bring to our audience, the better they can wrap their head around the immense opportunities and hopefully find more progress in their own organization with innovative technology. But let's talk about misconceptions first. Garb, what's one common misconception you often hear about, especially when it comes to AI and factories, and compare and contrast that with the reality that you've seen yourself.
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A
Yeah, and maybe I'll take a couple there, Scott. I mean what I hear generally speaking, a misconception, you know, one is that, you know, AI is here to kind of solve for everything and that's in factories or in supply chains general, more broadly as well, you know. The second is that AI is only leverageable in large complex settings where, you know, there's huge budgets available to be able to incorporate that for or the right areas within factories. Right. And the last thing is our factories produce so much data. Right. And whether that's stored in the historians, the SCADA layers, et cetera. And there's common misconception that you've got to have your data in a pristine state to be able to have AI readiness and start an AI transformation or AI leverage. And that's a misconception. So not true if you will, or I should say tool to the contrary. Because AI as a technology has the capability to kind of sift through both structured and unstructured data to be able to then produce the right output, whether that's insights or decision making, in some cases some autonomous workflow and actioning for you to be able to reduce the workload or increase the productivity, the efficiency, the quality, the safety, whatever areas you may be targeting within the factory setting. Right?
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C
Devin, I love these three misconceptions that Garv put out there and my favorite one is probably the third one where your data doesn't have to be perfect. Gosh, if you wait on, as I heard it put the other day, if you wait on your data to be perfect, you're never going to get around to driving real incredible transformation. Tevin, what'd you hear there?
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D
Yeah, I actually like it when you use something like ChatGPT and you do give a little garbage to it and it comes out with something better than you expected. It's almost like it's like, okay, you're a little dumb, but let's make you look smarter. But I agree on the it's not going to solve everything and you don't have to be a big company. If anything it should level the playing field where smaller mid sized companies can use it to compete against the big companies that are literally tied up in bureaucracy and red Tape, they have policies on how you can use AI. So I think it levels the playing field. I kind of like that.
- [17:49]
C
I'm with you. And you know, this, this trend that's been around for years, how the, the small can almost out mighty and out evolve and outcompete the big, you know, because the grand equalizer, that is technology. I find it all fascinating. Let's talk about pilot paralysis. Gareth. So a lot of organizations, when I read this phrase, I'm like, yep, I've been there a time or a hundred. From your experience, what are the critical foundational elements that companies got established before attempting to implement AI at scale?
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A
So, you know, we've had a number of emerging technologies come to life over the years that we've seen over decades. Right. I mean, I had a big hand in our blockchain strategy at one point in time, in our IoT strategy at the other time, and obviously now every one of them have had their potential and a leverage. I think it's only fair to say that AI as a technology has far greater potential and it's starting to come out right now. Having said that, every one of those cycles, you know, have had the issue of kind of this pilot purgatory, you know, that people get stuck into essentially.
- [19:01]
C
Now I like that even better, Gar. Pilot purgatory, right. You hear that, Tevin? I like that even better. Yeah, I'm sorry, go right ahead.
- [19:09]
A
No, no, no, but, but to your point, and Tevin said this in the previous response, that for companies and organizations to be able to leverage the full potential of this technology, there has to be a very structured approach on how do you embrace and how do you go about it. And for that you have to have the right foundational elements identified, understood and tackled appropriately. Because if you don't, then you're not getting to the full potential. On the contrary, if you do, then this has the potential to transform your entire enterprise and to your point, level play the field potentially and things like that. Now those foundational elements are things like governance and risk and security, responsibility, trust integration architecture that have to be handled by the way, not just at the supply chain level, but at the enterprise level.
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D
Right.
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A
You have to have an enterprise wide strategy around those when it comes to AI in particular. And data is obviously a big component of that. We just talked about it. And once you have that and the right guiding principles to support those foundational principles that are aligned to your enterprise strategy, well understood by all the right stakeholders, then you move further into the journey which relates to the function and question the use cases, the prioritization, the value and the outcomes you're going to receive through it. The final point is how do you have a continuous improvement loop to it? Because this is not a one and done exercise. The technology continues to evolve. You have to have a governance and a mechanism that is looking at this on a continual basis.
- [20:53]
C
Yes. Okay, two quick observations and then Tevin, I look forward to your response here. Number one, I look forward to that book coming out, Garth, I really do. You can tell you've been doing it for quite some time. And, and then secondly, we talked about cricket in the pre show Garf. What is the, what's one of the most dominant cricket teams out there?
- [21:12]
A
I mean, obviously you'll say I'm biased, right? But the team in India is a, is a dominant team.
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C
Okay?
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A
Right.
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C
So you're not going to beat that cricket team in India, the best of the best, the championship winning cricket team, without an incredibly deliberate, methodical strategic plan. Right, where you've, you have thought through all those different elements that Garv just put out there. Now, Tevin, there might be an Aggie analogy there as well that I left out, but what'd you hear there from Garv?
- [21:42]
D
Yeah, I don't know if I want to talk about Aggie football just yet. I'll jinx them. But AI is not an algorithm. It is about data, process, people, leadership and aligning those. So that's your foundation. If you don't have that foundation, the pilot will stay the pilot and you're going to be in that purgatory. So you absolutely have to have those things lined up like you mentioned.
- [22:05]
C
That's right. And I bet a lot of folks listening or viewing this, this podcast conversation right now has been in that pilot purgatory. Whether AI related or many other ways we can get stuck there. Call Garf, folks. Call Garf. He can, he can help you. All right, let's do this. Let's talk about, you know, you mentioned those bringing the power to get the outcomes and deliver the competitive advantage. We'll get more into results here. So Garth, what are some interesting examples where AI has really delivered significant supply chain cost reduction? Not down the road, not a couple of years down the road, but immediately. Especially when it comes to financial relief. That's how you spell relief, right? Not roll aids anymore. Also, how does that immediate, those immediate outcomes, of course contribute to long term successes and long term resilience. Give us some examples of that. Garfield.
- [22:56]
A
There are many leading large organizations, some cases small as well, that have leveraged this again in a structured, methodical manner, getting huge bold benefits. Right. And they cut across the spectrum. So again, in the logistics and transportation space companies like UPS and others, and this is public knowledge, are leveraging this technology embedded into their current processes and technology and leading to huge, huge benefits from the standpoint of route optimization and fuel savings, you know, that they're able to get. And that's being replicated through the LSP patch particularly because obviously that, you know, logistics service provider is big thing from the standpoint, route optimization and fuel cost essentially. Right. And by the way, that then translates into driver satisfaction, you know, that the driver hours that they're able to, you know, kind of reduce and leverage them for other things in the equation. You then go into the manufacturing side of the house. We all know when it comes to preventive and predictive maintenance, particularly now around predictive maintenance, this technology has been widely leveraged both for equipment monitoring and then through that monitoring being able to detect and then send the right level of alerts. In some cases also do autonomous actioning to reduce the downtime to better the maintenance and the life of the equipment in question, essentially. So a lot of leverage. It's, you know, in that equation. And then there are parallels to that when it comes to training and, or the ability to be able to, you know, give the shop floor user the right set of instructions that they need to be using virtually all in a highly guided manner to, you know, be able to do their job functions more safely but more accurately, you know, ultimately getting to better quality and output in the equation. Right. And again, you know, there are many, many large, you know, manufacturers that I could quote that, you know, doing that and getting huge benefits, you know, from the standpoint of the overall productivity from their plants.
- [25:06]
C
I love those examples and I'll add a few more. And Tevin, these might ring a bell with you because we've talked about some of these together in previous shows. Freight invoice, auditing, some of these big time shippers. You can't throw enough people at auditing and getting invoices right. And it creates such a resource suck, for lack of a better phrase, tons of friction. AI is being applied in incredible ways to really alleviate that parcel shipping. Where's my stuff? That can take thousands of hours each week. Answering and taking care of the consumer and giving them information. AI is changing that game dramatically. And one of my favorite recent examples, Tevin, not too long ago we had a big time CPG player that a lot of folks would recognize taste of a New generation, I'll put it. And they were deploying big time agentic AI and decision automation solutions out amongst our warehouses. And get this, they had at one point per month in this part of their warehousing ecosystem, 14,000 exceptions that required manual interventions per month. 14,000. And do you know what they where they took that number to? Once they acted on the art of the possible and brought in agentic AI to eliminate decisions or enhance their team's ability to make better decisions, they took that 14,000 number down to 27. You heard that, right? 14,000 to 27. You think people had some more time on their hands to protect, you know, not do as much overtime and enjoy their weekends? I mean, it's remarkable. Tevin, your thoughts?
- [26:36]
D
Well, everything can be kind of summed up. I've heard manufacturing, inventory, transportation, maintenance, and it's all about reducing, making it better, optimizing. But AI is delivering on quick wins and cost savings, right? That's the first step is so you have the quick wins, but then it's also laying the groundwork for this adaptive supply chain that can make the future of the supply chain less disruptive, less volatile and more flexible.
- [27:04]
C
That's right. And better environments, more success, better days for your people. And that's my favorite element to this whole golden age of supply chain tech story that we continue to build chapter by chapter. So Garfield, speaking of agentic AI, it's just remarkable what's going on. Let's dial it in more there because we're truly, hour by hour, unlocking more and more of the autonomous supply chain. And I hope I'm using that word correctly because Garv, as you mentioned, folks are throwing that around left and right out there. So let's talk about this. Are there specific areas where agentic AI is already demonstrating beyond what we've referenced? Maybe already demonstrating its potential in factories and in supply chain. What else are you seeing there?
- [27:48]
A
There's a lot of general lack of education and understanding around this technology. I mean, obviously a lot of buzz, a lot of hype, right? But people have to have a deeper understanding as well. And to your point, right, I mean the technology has evolved and will continue too, right? I mean, so it went from AI to gen AI to agent tech and now it's moving towards its next, you know, evolution, so to speak. And that's why that continuous loop is important now. It's important for all of us to understand what was the difference between gen vs agentic and why does agent think, to your point, give us the ability to move towards that autonomous or what I call ecosystem orchestrated cognitive supply chains. And the primary difference is that in the case of agentic versus Gentec has the ability to be able to act on your behalf and in a lot of cases reliably act on your behalf as a result of consumption of a lot of information that it analyzes and then knows what to act on. So that you are then just left with potentially either validating and or working on very, very complex exceptions, you know, that you need to work on. And that's what you know. Some of the examples that we all talked about earlier and or some of the newer ones, particularly from an end to end perspective, is what companies are starting to use a Gentex for. And I'd say particularly around unforeseen, you know, macro conditions, whether you know that has impacted ocean traffic patterns that now a company is having to react to to see how they can still meet the service levels or minimize that disruption. And they're using a Gentec to be able to analyze the network across the patch globally. And then through that analysis, this technology then gives them the recommended, some cases acts on it. You can use these type of alternates to minimize the disruption and still be able to hopefully meet your service levels to your customers. Essentially the second is now around this whole network analysis, not around a disruption, but call it around these tariffs and everything. How do we use this technology to quickly analyze our historics, if you will, and then tell us how should our network overall be placed so that it is much more resilient to these type of unforeseen and or even foreseen changes and we still are cost effective both internally, but then more importantly to our customers.
- [30:25]
C
That last example, Tevin, I think the other opportunity when it comes to designing our network transportation networks and whatnot, it's not a one and done. And it's amazing how technology allows the dynamic aspect of that to constantly optimize no matter what scenario is being thrown at us. But Tevin, what'd you hear there from Garv?
- [30:46]
D
We're moving from just offering and analyzing to taking action, you know, within certain guardrails. But you know, the way I look about, you know, I look at it like, hey, don't just tell me something's going to fail, schedule how to fix the failure or the part, adjust the production, right? So it's, it's taking it the next level where it's, it's engaging in that action part that you never saw before. It's not just analyzing, it's analyzing and taking action.
- [31:15]
C
So Tevin, what I'm hearing there, and there's, there's a quote from a president and it's escaping me right this minute, I think it was a president, but basically the quote was, don't complain unless you got a solution. And what you're speaking, the great news there is all this technology is enabling people not just to point out what's going wrong, but action it and solution it right there. That is a beautiful, beautiful thing, Garf. Speaking of beautiful thing, I want to get into the beautiful human element that still powers global supply chains forward in so many different ways. And we were talking about maintenance in the, in the pre show, all those incredible maintenance professionals out there, the planners, the forklift drivers, the pickers, packers, the machine operators in our plants. Let's talk about how in this increasingly AI enabled and autonomous supply chain world, the vital role that humans still play and will continue to play, how do we ensure that AI augments that rather than replaces those vital human capabilities and creates new roles and new opportunities for the humans out across the globe?
- [32:23]
A
I think first it starts with all of us getting a deeper good understanding of this technology because it's almost a given that we can't escape this. So we have to embrace it. And I just tell everybody that we get an understanding and embrace it because to your point, it's something that is only going to complement things and that embracement should be with that level of understanding. Right. You know, once that's done, I think what this is going to do is leave humans for really creative critical thinking. And through that creative and critical thinking focus on unique things that are highly complex in nature that they need to focus on because their involvement is necessary and then divert the rest of their attention and the rest of their energy towards the enterprise. Differentiation in other ways that they are able to contribute to essentially. And that's how supply chains, again, we've now talked about many times that this leads to the potential that we've all been waiting for and it is going to get real. And through that now, humans all have to focus towards those creative, critical things as well as differentiation further. And that differentiation can be new channels, new products, new offerings, new business models that we can then think about versus running and executing on supply chain know, mundane tasks, if you will. Right? Yes.
- [34:05]
C
All right, so Tevin and Garf, I'm trying, I'm, I'm gonna keep it real. Something we've said a lot around here ever since the, this golden age of AI has been around. If you don't like to learn new Things. And if you like doing the same thing the same way eight hours in a row every single day, you're not gonna have as many opportunities versus those that lean into this golden age and are willing to learn and are willing, as, as Garv was saying, to find new ways of how they can bring value, unique human value to our supply chain ecosystems. And the good news there, Tevin, is until AI, agentic or otherwise, can go out and meet suppliers or customers and go have lunch and go ideate around opportunities and challenges and unlock new ways of working together, who knows, that might be next week. But until that, that is a uniquely human ability and we got to lean in and empower the human workforce to do more of that. Your thoughts are tapp?
- [35:03]
D
Yeah. Two things. One is, I'll quote the late Fred Smith, he said if you don't like change, you're not going to like extinction either. So that's the first. So you do need to embrace it. But I love that point. Like humans will be in the loop. There are things that humans excel at like creative problem solving and navigating ambiguity that you're just not going to see AI do in the short term. But more importantly, there should be other things you're focused on like trying to invest in things. I mean, think about your daily. I think the point was made adding productivity over the mundane task. Like there are things you could be doing versus the mundane task that if you had AI doing that, it's just going to further things all humans are doing. So but I do like Fred's quote because he said it quite a bit. He's right. We've got to embrace that change. Embrace AI or embrace face extinction of whatever job function or whatever you're doing.
- [35:54]
C
Very true, very true. And, and hey, maybe one day AI will become big Dallas Cowboys fans and then we'll really know they're becoming more and more human. Tevin, we'll see. And by the way, Garb, he's a. Tevin Taylor is the biggest Cowboys fan I know. We'll see what they do this year.
- [36:10]
A
There we go. We got the Aggie in common there, Kevin.
- [36:16]
C
So let's do this. I love that. I got a two parter question for you Garf. And this, this goes back to. There are certain. What I, what I view as responsibility is that as companies are leaning into AI possibilities and investing in that and, and really transforming their approach to managing supply chains and, and leading their business at the same time, a lot of leading companies are investing in their people and upskilling and Reskilling their workforce to help them better prepare to find more success for themselves and their organization in this AI driven supply chain and factory environments and much more. So how do you see companies making that investment in the workforce? And secondly, are there specific skill sets that you'd recommend to business leaders and the employees themselves out there that are really becoming more and more critical in this AI golden age?
- [37:08]
A
I think in line with the discussion that we just had, you know, Scott, I see this to be one of the most important elements that can set a company aside in a positive manner through again, the evolution and the journey we're on, so to speak. And this cuts across industries, by the way. And yes, almost every one of our clients and or every company that you hear of is focused on that piece of, you know, one, how do we ensure that we uplift our current workforce to again have a deeper understanding and embracement of this technology? We call it AI in everything we do because the applicability is such, in whatever shape or form in everything we do. And it starts with first, an education, a deeper understanding. And I see many of my clients and other organizations leveraging different formats to be able to uplift that education within their workforce as a whole. Then, you know, through that education, it starts with arming individuals and arming the workforce with the right tools, with the right platforms, with the right technologies, first to start to start potentially playing, but then to start, you know, kind of incorporating them into their daily functions, whether that's around internal operations improvement, whether that's around improving, you know, how they're serving their customers, et cetera. And that's starting to happen as well. Now all of that, Scott, requires a certain element of culture change as well. And that can come top down as well as from the sides. And that's needed as well, meaning you really need to move the needle from the standpoint of embracement by the majority, if not all. And that I think requires a shift in the culture because obviously change is never easy, not embraced by everybody. But this one, I think, is here to stay. I say not in the enterprise world, but give this thing, call it three years or so, roughly speaking, thereabouts in our daily lives, and it may be less than that. This technology is going to be parallel to Internet for people like us. We use Internet so commonly. And what's going to happen is we're going to wake up on a daily basis, we're going to have a bunch of prompts that we will either send out or will be sent out on our behalf because of whatever workflow and algorithms we have and they're going to do a bunch of actions for us, if you will, and make our lives easy, give us the responses and our insights and then that same thing is going to start to translate into the enterprise world not too far from there.
- [40:01]
C
Again, that could be a whole podcast series on what you just shared there. Garov and I want to speak into the questions we posed to him. Tevin, I want to share just a couple quick things because we're talking about upskilling and reskilling the workforce and some specific skill sets that business leaders should consider right to invest in. Of course analytics, of course prompt engineering, as Groff mentioned, change management, a little bit more of a broader skill set. But gosh, in this ever fast moving world involving AI and otherwise and a lot of organizations are struggling with that change management piece and I would, I would argue what's old is new again is being able to understand the business and helping your people understand the business. You know, there's an old tool that's been around forever, dice remapping, right? You get a bunch of people in a room from different functional areas and you kind of map out the flow of a factor or really any type of business that in my experience has unlocked these eureka moments in the handoffs between the functional areas and gosh, the learnings that teams and organizations can take from those exercises where you gain major alignment of upstream and downstream man. Then you can figure out where to apply technology and where there's some unique human driven value that can be delivered. Your thoughts here? Tevin?
- [41:17]
D
I'm starting to laugh because you say data stream mapping and that seems like just yesterday, but we're aging ourselves. I had a customer actually email me yesterday and I said a term that's a little old fashioned in supply chain and they replied and said that's old fashioned. Then they came back and apologized because they realized they were being ageist. But when it comes to approaching it, upskilling, reskilling, that's table stakes. There needs to be AI training, that cross functional rotation, kind of dipping your toe into what's changing. I wrote down the parallel to the Internet because again it seems like yesterday we're listening to the dial tone of AOL and we're like this is so cool. The websites were horrible looking. There wasn't really a lot of data, but our brains didn't wrap around where we'd be today. Just like in 20 years from now we're going to go, how do we not see this? But the most important thing that I'd say is that companies really need to realize that it's not the technology alone that that delivers the value, it's the people. So the people are still delivering the AI. The people are still supporting it. Just like pilots still are flying planes that are highly automated compared to what they used to be. It's the people behind it that's really what's going to make this happen.
- [42:32]
C
So true, Tevin. So true. And there's tremendous, you know, there's tremendous opportunities to all of our listeners out there that, that are maybe anxious about this period we're going through because we're getting thrown so much. There's so much noise. Yeah, you know, you got the geopolitical, you got the trade environment, you've got all the innovation and change going. Industry, going back to the basics. Going back to the basics. Get rooted in the basics. It'll help you foundationally get through these uncertain times and find lots of opportunities and success. Let's do this. Garv. We're about to get, you know, Tevin is, no pun intended, already looking at the future, because we're gonna, we're gonna get you to predict the future here in just a second. But before we get there, I want to double down on this notion about keeping people at the center, the beautiful human element at the center of all these technology advancements. What would be your advice? You've worked with some of the most successful companies in the world that have been able to do this. What would be your advice? Garv?
- [43:26]
A
I think that is paramount. Keeping humans at the center of this. I think Kevin just said technology. And yes, has a large potential, but just an enabler, if you will, and a huge enabler. But humans are the ones that are necessary to be able to think through the right leverage with the right outcomes and value that gets, you know, driven through it. And humans are the ones that have to embrace it, drive the right change and uplift themselves and the community and ultimately the organization through the cycle of you will. And time and time again, even through this, you know, we have seen that organizations that have kept humans at the center through it. In fact, we. We have an approach and, and this is through research with Oxford University, where we talk about this from the standpoint of humans at the center, so to speak, and exactly that the term we use is so necessary. And if you don't do it, this transformation is not going to lead to the right result sets that you're looking for, the right level of adoption that you're looking for, not within the Organization, but then outside as well. But humans have to be at the center one to think through how to, you know, leverage and bring it all together and convert those, what I call moonshot and, or bolder things to reality, ultimately to adoption.
- [44:55]
C
Oh, man. Tevin, I would argue on top of what Garv just shared, there is humans are more apt to be at the center of what we're trying to do with technology if they're informed.
- [45:07]
D
Right?
- [45:08]
C
And yeah, I say it a lot because I believe in it. We're doing it with, we should do it with our people, not to our people. And of course, communicate. Communicate. Communicate has got to be the, the tool we use to inform our workforces. Right? And I saw one data nugget along these lines earlier this week based on research. You know, we've all heard about the power of storytelling and its ability to help communicate in ways where the divides are bigger. Did you know that leaders that are able to communicate via the power of stories and really optimizing their storytelling ability can up their effectiveness 22x in terms of who they're communicating to and whether they retain that knowledge or what they're sharing or they don't. Now, I just told all that in a really bad story. So don't take, don't, don't, don't do what I did. Do it better. But Tevin, keeping people at the center of what we're trying to do, technology wise, your thoughts?
- [46:05]
D
It's a simple story. And I could tell many stories of success and failure based on this key point. So if you bring your operations, your sales, your marketing, the planners, the frontline employees, if you bring them into the pilot or the design phases, guess what? They're going to embrace it a lot faster. They're going to adopt it. It'll be part of your culture. If you don't, then you're going to recognize the pain and suffering of not including them because then there's going to be the fear factoring and storytelling happens if you don't tell a story. And what I mean by that is if you don't involve your employees on the front end, they will make up their own stories and start storytelling amongst themselves. The next thing you know, you're fighting that machine versus them going, this is amazing. Right?
- [46:52]
C
You want to have some of those good stories and share those good stories. You don't want to give all the, all the good stories to other folks. That's excellent advice. You know, play up that ownership factor and involve your folks at the beginning of these initiatives. I love that Gar, if you've got a tough, tough question, this is a billion dollar question, this is why you're able to get out there and move all these mountains. Because you, I would argue, based on the homework we've done about you, you're able to more accurately predict the future. So looking five years down the road, what do you believe will be the most transformative impact of AI, not just on the factory floor, but the broader supply chain?
- [47:29]
A
Yeah, it's a tough one, but obviously a valid question. Scott1 I'll start by saying, and this is based on history with several other emerging technologies, RPA, IoT, blockchain, VR, AR, et cetera. This certainly has a much broader, much deeper potential in supply chains and more. And it's a given. We can't run away from it. There is a notion that within five years, or at the point of five years or so, this technology in almost every case may become more intelligent than humans, if you will. And that's a scary thing to kind of think through, but that's the evolution. That's where we're headed. And by then, I do think for a lot of the organizations, this technology will lead their supply chains to a much tighter orchestrated, cognitive, autonomous supply chains, no question. And supply chain practitioners, supply chain individuals, are going to be thinking about bringing very unique, bold differentiation through other elements. And those other elements will be opening new channels, opening new markets, opening new boundaries, new products, new type of offerings and new business models. And that is the exciting potential that this will offer. You know, my last point there would be to capture all of that understanding and embracement. You know, the change thing that we all talked about is very, very important. So I just encourage all of us to take the time to get a bit of deeper understanding, you know, to kind of start to embrace this, not to run away, if you will. And it's just a very, very cool, very fascinating, you know, technology that will only lead us to good times, good spot, good world, as long as, again, it is done in a responsible manner. Right. I mean, so we, you know, we shouldn't shy away, that there are risk associated to it. But and that's why done in a responsible man. That's a very element of all of this.
- [49:42]
C
Gar well said, well said. And Tevin, what I heard there from someone in the know, that's a lot closer to the bleeding edge of technology than I am, is there's lots of reason for very practical optimism about where we're going. And yes, there's some uncertainty and there's, there's anxiety. But there was with any technological revolution throughout history, right? And those that see it for the opportunity that it is and find practical ways of upskilling and finding opportunities and learning new things, they're going to be in better position to enjoy the fruits of all of this incredible innovation and transformation. But Tevin, what did you hear there?
- [50:22]
D
I have no doubt that the crystal ball, the five year plan, maybe it's shorter, maybe it's longer, but supply chains have to evolve from this reactive, fragile approach to a self healing, resilient, able to operate on its own and adapt as autonomous supply chain. I mean that's, that is the way of the future. And boy, you know, it's sad because the headaches that you have to deal with in the supply chain of today, in the past and the future, we're going to laugh and go, I can't believe we used to do it this way. That's what's going to happen.
- [50:52]
C
So true. Yeah, that is a. You can take that prediction to the bank, Kevin. That's a great call out. So one last thing. One of the things that Gav mentioned was the intelligence factor and how it's, it's really gonna, I mean, gosh, it's rivaling the human intelligence factor. We already talked about the differentiating things between them, but it's amazing. It is really amazing. Play around chat GPT if you don't believe me, but I want to just little throwback folks, go watch. There's a great movie that came out. I think it was 2013 and our loyal listeners and watchers know I mentioned this before, but Joaquin Phoenix was in a very unique movie called Her. And I watched that movie and I was fascinated with it before I even began to understand artificial intelligence. And now I think it's even more relevant than it was 12 years ago. So go find it. I'm not gonna ruin the ending, but it will make you think and a lot. It'll make you think along a lot of lines that we've touched on here today. All right, Gaurav, great, outstanding episode. I want to make sure, you know, I bet you're really busy keynoting, working, delivering value, bringing the power. I bet you travel a lot as you work with leading businesses and innovative leaders out there. But how can members of our audience track you down and have a fun shop conversation with you?
- [52:08]
A
Yeah, I think the easiest way would be through my LinkedIn profile, Scott. So obviously people can contact me through LinkedIn ey.com and my profile through ey.com can be the other way to get in touch, those would be the two channels.
- [52:22]
C
Outstanding. And we got to get a hold of some of those pictures from that outstanding pilgrimage. I'm so glad you've been with us, Grob. All right, so, Tevin, before we sign off here and before I thank everybody, I gotta get your patented key takeaway here today. From what we heard from Grog, I.
- [52:38]
D
Took so many notes, and if you saw my chicken scratch, I can't believe I can read this, but I love the points that he made. AI Enables us to move the supply chain. It's going to make it more reliable and cognitive from a state standpoint, and then it's going to level our playing field. The pilot purgatory. Avoid that. Right? So get out of pilot if you can. Embrace it. Embrace bringing your team in. Get the quick wins to level the playing field. And most importantly, this one I kind of highlighted. It amplifies human value, does not replace it. So love this episode. A lot of good takeaways there.
- [53:15]
C
Oh, absolutely. Good, practical, actionable takeaways. And I would just add to your key takeaway there, as Gaurav was talking about and suggesting the right strategy to avoid that pilot Purgatory, man. Targeted building trust along the way, including the people that transparency that you need and applying it to the right problems. And you know, folks, you don't start with the solution. You don't grab a hammer and go chasing nails, right? As the old analogy goes, you try to figure out what the problem is first, right? What are we trying to solve first? And then work backwards to find the right solution, AI or otherwise. But what an outstanding conversation here today. Gaurav Malhotra, partner and supply chain technology leader with EY Garob. Thank you so much for being here. And we're going to have to go through your agent because you're on that rock and roll tour, I'm sure, sharing your expertise around the globe, but we're gonna have to have you back for a second coming soon.
- [54:14]
A
Oh, enjoyed it, Scott. So thank you to you and to Tevin for the opportunity. Appreciate it.
- [54:18]
C
You bet. We'll have to do it on the scene up in Chicago and consume some terrific pizza and tasty adult beverages. Tevin as we do it. But Tevin Taylor, the one and only Sheriff Taylor, as you've earned new nickname around here. Always a pleasure to knock out these conversations with you, no doubt.
- [54:35]
D
Thank you so much, Scott.
- [54:36]
C
Appreciate what you do out in the industry. And, folks, make sure you connect with both Grav and Tevin on LinkedIn. But hey, to all of our audience members out there, hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as I have. Lots of practical, actionable expertise from our guests here today. But you've got some homework. You got to take one thing, at least one thing that Gaurav and Tevin shared here today, put it into practice. Share it with the team. Deeds, not words. That's how we're going to keep transforming this incredible global supply chain ecosystem that we all play a role in and leave no one behind. So with all that said, Scott Lewton here, challenging all of you out there, do good, get forward, be the change that's needed. And we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain now. Thanks, everybody.
- [55:19]
B
Join the Supply Chain now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supply chain now.com, subscribe to Supply Chain now on YouTube and follow, follow and listen to Supply Chain Now. Wherever you get your podcasts.