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A
Welcome to Supply Chain now the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real supply chain leadership from across the globe. One conversation at a time. Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be. Scott Luton and Richard Donaldson with you here on Supply Chain now. Welcome to today's live stream. Hey Richard, how you doing?
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B
Evan, Scott, how you doing down there?
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A
I am doing outstanding. It looks like it's a gorgeous morning out there in the Phoenix area, is that right?
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B
That's absolutely correct. It is. We're still not quite a triple digits yet today so yes, it's, it's tempered for the moment.
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A
Outstanding. Well, as Trisha says everybody, happy Buzz day. Say hello, let us know where you're watching from and thanks for joining us here on the Buzz as we start a brand new week full of opportunities folks. The Buzz where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern Time we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and business. New news that matters is what we like to call it. And we are powered this month by our friends over at Optilogic, an AI first supply chain design company that revolutionizes decision making by transforming modeling from a multi month project into one day breakthroughs. You can learn more@optilogic.com all right, so Richard, we got a lot to get into here today. We're going to be talking about supply chain in space. Now when I saw that Richard, do you remember the old Muppets of course segment?
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B
Of course, of course.
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A
Okay, good. We're gonna talk about supply chain space. We're gonna be talking about big and bulky, gets more visibility in retail. We're gonna be talking about a big move that the big A has made. We're gonna be looking at critical trends and reverse logistics and returns management with an outstanding guest. All that and much, much more. And the guest you may ask, in about 15 minutes or so we're gonna be joined by the one and only Cinder Shamus, CEO and co founder of Return Pro. He's back with us. And folks, I promise you you're going to enjoy Cinder's perspective and passion for changing the reverse and return side of industry. Richard, we really enjoyed the pre show conversation, huh?
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B
Absolutely. I mean Cinders, Cinder's got such a great perspective on it and spend a lot of time in the space and even talking about reverse logistics as he pointed out early and we'll get to it when he gets on the program. There's a big difference between reverse logistics which has been around for a while but not necessarily as mature as it should be. And then the movement towards circularity, which is something I'm keyed up to ask him about.
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A
Ok, well, we're going to dive into that and a whole bunch more with sender. So folks, buckle up for a big edition of the Buzz powered our friends at Optilogic right here today. And couple comments here. First off, Trisha, thank you for letting folks know one click away from where they can learn more about Optilogic. Alan Jacques is back with us. He says hey Scott and Richard from beautiful Ottawa, Canada. Great to see you Alan10 Great to see you from Vietnam via LinkedIn link. Love to know you and Alan's thoughts on the topics we're going to be talking about here today. Great to have you here on the Buzz. Okay, so Richard, we got some work to do before Cinder joins us. We got three things we're going to hit on the front end and we're going to start with some early, early, early key takeaways. Well, I should say we're going to start with with that said, which is our almost weekly newsletter, which started with early, early key takeaways from Orlando and the Gartner supply chain symposium that we attended last week. As a media partner, Richard, I bet we we worked really hard Monday and Tuesday in particular. I think we had about 20 interviews and we led this session with just a tip of the iceberg. It comes to some of our takeaways. So let's see. Nicole Taylor with KU K is doing some cool things says the autonomous business era isn't approaching is already here. Raphael Yu with Sofas Technology said that the accelerating decision making continues to be the mantra. I think it's been the mantra for decades, if not centuries. But we're finding some really cool ways to speed up. Not only speed up decision making, but make him better and more confident. And he says it's all about quote right now, right now, right now. So true. Ulf Vena reminds us that there's still tons of companies taking a more measured and tactical approach with AI, where they're looking for better and smaller use cases. And Bill Benton with Gaines observed that based on the work they're doing and the conversations they had at Gartner, there's still a ton of companies that are early on in their AI journey. There's even a handful that hadn't started yet. Hey, it's out there. Laggards are still across industry for sure. In this edition you're going to find more perspective from those conversations. At Gartner you're going to find tools Resources and live events all in the latest edition of. With that said, give it a read, let us know what you think. So Richard, did you happen to take a look, when you weren't flying and instructing over the weekend, did you take a look at what that said?
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B
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and a couple things I think that jump out in right away is the automation, right. So kind of the AI first supply chain design as that's coming up, I think AI is still, you know, the hot topic. It's not going to be go away for anytime, anytime soon. Right. And how it gets applied to pretty much every facet of life, whether it's medicine, whether it's supply chain, whether it's autonomous vehicles or in my world aviation, you know, the autonomous vehicle has been around UAPs, you know, the size of the drones these days are basically fighter jets that they're flying around. The new fighter strike fighter forces coming out are going to be autonomous for the most part. And there have been sci fi movies on that sense when we bring it back to our world, you know, even look at an Amazon, right, They've moved towards automation in their logistics parts of their business for a long time. They've got basically warehouses run by robots. They have for quite some time that continues to move up the, up the scale. So I think you're going to see with AI in particular a step function change, you know, acceleration if you will, towards automation. That I believe is happening right now. And I think, you know, to your point can avoid it. Kind of like they did early on with the days of the Internet and say, oh, the Internet bad. Well, AI is not a fad. It is here and it is going to augment everything we're doing. And it's better to start playing with these tools now, adapting your supply chains in that direction, adapting all the things you do for delivery, reverse logistics and all the things that sender's going to talk about, I'm sure you know, into, into what you do today, otherwise you're going to be left behind.
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So true. And folks are still wondering somewhere, do I need a website? I guess technically you don't need a website like you need oxygen, but we all learned it does help tremendously. So it's interesting. I like that comparison. Let's see here, we have got some dear friends. Richard in the comments, starting with the one and only Tony Shirota says I love that I can join today for cinder and for circularity, of course. Tony tuned in from Atlanta. Tony is a iconic figure in the reverse and return space. Great to have Tony, my dear friend with us and Brandy tuned in once again from Dallas Fort Worth. You've been through Dallas lately, Richard?
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B
Not lately, but flown over it a couple times.
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A
Okay, you have Robbie tuned in from the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Hopefully it's not too hot down there just yet. It's coming. And hey, our dear friend Kathy Morrow Robertson tuned in from Atlanta. Folks, if you're not checking out, actually there's a couple she does, but one of the great newsletters, Freight Forward. We'll see if Kathy can drop the link into the comments so folks can check that out. So good stuff. Lots of friends here today.
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C
Right?
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A
We gotta get more to work. And folks, stay tuned as Senator Shamus joins us here in just a few minutes. Number two, Richard. Now I worked hard, I was trying to Google to find that pigs in space snapshot so I could really flash that back on as we get into space supply chain for a minute and I could not get a high quality picture. So folks, if you're not old enough to remember the Muppet show, the original Muppet show, you're really missing out. You have to venture over the YouTube and check it out.
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B
But.
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A
And Richard both are big time space nerds, but Richard is an aviator, he is an instructor, he's a high tech guy and he is really tracking with his finger on the pulse what's going on when it comes to space supply chain. Richard, what's one thing, it's one thing that you find most intriguing right now.
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B
Okay, so easy answer, right? And it, it applies to the supply chain. It more applies to the door opening wider for us to start exploration of space. And that's, well, it's two of the same thing. One is the, the release of the UAP UFO files that just happened over the last 48 hours or I think in the last five days. That is a significant move in the direction of opening up all of our government, if you will, secrets towards what's been going on and everyone's been talking about for a long time. All the conspiracy theorists are cheering because that's actually happening now. And concurrent to that over the last two months, just which is tied to the same thing is you've had this just odd disappearance of About a dozen 13 or 14, I think we are now scientists and the field of astronomical discovery, alien discovery, whatever you want to call it, even nuclear power, things on how to power through space, they've been disappearing. So you start putting these two things together and I think we're again at a step. I mean you can't Deny this a step function acceleration towards space. You know, whether it's Musk's movement, you know, adapting his, his plans to go from Mars to the moon. Now you're releasing all this information on things that people have been talking about forever, which is, you know, change, climate, contact with, with, you know, first contact, if you will. I mean you talked about Star Trek earlier that we're going to get to and we're right at the throes of that. It's probably already happened. I think that's going to start changing people's perspective, I think and start looking towards the stars in a much more significant way. The way we've talked about this before. Christopher Columbus looked at the ocean and wanted to navigate it. I mean we're, we're at a really interesting inflection point for humanity and I think our supply chains are going to adapt towards that. They already are, Richard.
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A
Very well said. It is exciting and kind of scary all at once. That's new. That's what new chapters bring oftentimes. And secondly folks, as this develops, as this emerging market industry space, for lack of, no pun intended, continues to develop, logistics really, you name it, supply chain needs and how the craft will learn a whole new connection to make and how we supply human endeavors in the great beyond. This is going to be remarkable to watch. So Richard, you're our space correspondent and we look forward to future space supply chain correspondent. We look forward to future updates on what we all got to know. How's that sound?
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B
Good, Good.
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Okay, also want to share a few folks before we hit one more thing here. Scott tuned in. Scott Alphin. Scott, let us know where you're you're tuned in from. Welcome, welcome. Our dear friend Andrew from Shropshire is back with us. I think I nailed it that time. Andrew, we're going to have to have you on the buds at some point soon. You're doing cool things in technology. Kathy did drop the freight forward the latest edition, folks. Check it out. Kath is one of the best in the business and she also says hey. She also compiles weekly news every Friday on the reverse space, creatively called reverse news. So she's dropping the latest leak there. Good stuff, Kathy, and always a great sense of humor. So Richard, one more thing before we bring in Cinder here today we partnered with our friends at Optilogic to deliver what I think was a fascinating webinar a few weeks ago. It focused on how an AI first approach to supply chain design not only builds resilience and optimizes performance, but even better. It can transform the teams, the people within the organization, empowering them in a wide variety of ways. Plus I would argue that it's a terrific, you know, any better innovative high tech way of doing business that's going to be a magnet for top talent. Top talent looks for stuff like that. But nevertheless, Vic and Gavin pictured here, brought a ton of practical and actionable perspective to the table, including a few examples where Optilogic is helping to change a game for organizations out in industry. We even had the professor, aka Scott DeGroote join us. You can check out the replay now on demand and let us know what you think. We've got a great conversation coming up here today. We welcome back one of our faves. Cinder Shamus is the co founder and CEO of Return Pro, Industry's leading fully integrated returns management and reverse logistics platform. He's a seasoned entrepreneur with multiple successful exits. He's well known and I can attest to for identifying large scale inefficiencies, building scalable technology driven ecosystems and transforming complex operational challenges into profitable repeatable models. Now his impact on industry has earned national recognition. We'll be here maybe all day reading off some of the honors, but one of them Prono Lifetime Achievement Award. This is a young guy, he's done a lot in his life for his long time and long term contributions to supply chain innovation which was awarded in 2024. Many, many others beyond that. Please join me in welcoming the passionate trailblazer Cinder Shamus, co founder and CEO of Return Pro. Hey. Hey Cinder, how you doing?
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C
Thank you very much for having me. I'm doing great. I was listening to you guys. What an interesting, fascinating topic.
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A
No, undoubtedly we got a lot of good, more, more good stuff to get into. And Richard as well. I said earlier we really enjoyed our short conversation with Cinder on the the pre show. I can't wait to get into here today, huh? So where are we going to start? I want to start with a little bit of pop culture because today folks, today's many things. It's Hostess. Hostess Cupcake Day. Hostess. I think the same folks, I made it Twinkies. If I'm not mistaken, it is National Technology Day. How about that? We need like a whole month at least it's Somerset Day to celebrate Somerset in the United Kingdom. Andrew, maybe you can, you can tell us exactly where that is related to where you are. But it's also folks, it is Twilight Zone Day, which is meant to celebrate what I would consider to be one of the most consequential television series of all time. And this is my favorite episode, by the way. It's called Time Enough to Last features Burgess Meredith as Henry Bemis. And I'm not going to ruin the episode, folks, but if you hadn't seen this, you got to check it out. But Cinder, with all that said, whether it is Twilight Zone or whether it's other sci fi or fantasy series, what are you an absolute big fan of?
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C
I'm a Trekkie. I've always been a Trekkie. I love Star Trek. I've been a Trekkie since I was a kid.
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A
Okay, so what's your. What's your favorite? Like Next Generation or original series or.
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C
I love Next Generation, although I like the original as well. But I love Next Generation and some of the movies. I love some of the movies as well. I think they're really cool.
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A
All right, so Richard, I think you and I both are also fellow Trekkies. But Richard, I don't want to lock you into Star Trek. What else comes to mind?
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B
Sci fi. I mean, I can't, I can't deny Cinder's hitting on it. Star Trek's like one of the birthplaces of sci fi, especially television. And I mean, who can, who can argue with James Tiberius Kirk, right? Is one of the greatest characters of all time. And William Shatner's depiction of that, I mean, he's iconic, right? Still to this day, people imitate that. But I'm going to bring it forward a little bit and I kind of go. It's kind of my go to show or series or author is Isaac Asimov in the foundation series. One of my original series that, that really broke the mold for me and what reading and imagination was all about, but fused with scientific knowledge that was really prognosticating what was coming down the pipe. And Apple has done a fabulous job of trying to render what is almost an impossible book to try to put to film in the foundation series on Apple tv. And they've done a pretty decent job. It's. It's not perfect, but it's damn good for what it is. And, you know, close second would be Villa News depiction of Dune. Lately I thought that was a much better depiction of Dune than the early one, just based on what he could do with it. But yeah, foundation series for me is always kind of etched its place in really what's coming true to life.
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A
And Cinder, I feel like we just had a, a real critic weigh in with some actionable critical review. Now, Cinder, are you. Have you seen that foundation series that Richard's talking about?
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C
I love the Foundation. I think it's amazing. I think it's one of the coolest concepts. And, you know, a lot of people don't like it because it gets really complex. Kind of goes through space and time and all that. I haven't seen the latest season. I've been meaning to watch it. I. I don't have that much time, but if I have an international flight, hopefully in the summer soon enough, I'll. I'll binge watch it all the way through because it's impossible to sleep on those lights.
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A
Well, it is. When you do, you got to come back in and give us your critical evaluation.
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C
I've seen the first. I've seen the first couple of seasons. Amazing. Okay. Amazing.
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A
All right.
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C
The concept of it is just brilliant.
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A
Sounds like it's must see tv, Westworld style.
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C
You know, it's a very, very, very smart show.
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B
Yeah. And it's hard. Send it to your point. You know, it's hard to keep up and ever read the series. Read the series because it'll make you revisit everything you're seeing on TV in a whole different way.
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C
I'll do that. It sounds amazing.
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A
All right. Well, hey, folks, we gotta get some work done around here. Right? Before we do, let's see. Andrew's giving me. I had 10 for 10 in pronouncing Shropshire. I work hard for you, Andrew. Tony says he prefers the hostess day over the tech day. I'm with you, Tony. I'm with you. My diet disagrees. Is frowning at me right now. But Tony, good stuff. And I think this is. Amanda says she's obsessed with the Twilight Zone. Since I was in middle school. I have. The Beholder is her favorite Twilight Zone episode. Kathy loves the new Dune series as well. Richard.
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B
The new Dune series.
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C
Yeah, that one's good. I love that.
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A
The Doom series is great. And finally, Somerset, and I think this is. Andrew says it's a county in the west of England. It originates from the Saxon period, referring to settlers dependent on the town of Summerton as it had great grazing and arable land. Hey, ask and you shall receive. Good stuff there. All right, so, Cinder and Richard, we got a lot of stuff getting to here today. I want to start by taking a look at what one retailer is doing to address the lack of visibility that often accompanies big and bulky orders. So this is what comes to us from our friends at Retail Brew. Home Depot is doing a lot of things right from a supply chain and fulfillment standpoint. Right. And that's a good thing because here's A did you know in 2025 more than 55% of in stock SKUs at Home Depot were delivered to same day or next day delivery. That's triple the 2022 rate. So they got to be doing good things. But when it comes to things like concrete and lumber, company leadership has determined there's still work to be done. That's where a new 414,000 square foot distribution center on Long island comes into play. Home Depot is going to use it to specialize to focus on same and next day delivery for big and bulky building materials. It's a complex aspect of retail which is illustrated in that third party carriers deliver about 90% of big and bulky goods. Certainly one of the many reasons for lack of visibility for customers. We're going to see how Home Depot's efforts land with the customers in the months ahead. All right, so Cinder, it's interesting to look at these stories from a couple different views. You know, we're all supply chain practitioners, but also big consumers. Now don't let the secret out, but I tend to be in Lowe's a bit more than Home Depot these days, but it kind of goes back and forth every year. But send to your take on big and bulky and how we can offer up more visibility. How you think the next couple months may play out.
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C
Well, first of all, I'm a Home Depot guy, okay? But nevertheless, I think any big and bulky is an issue. Whether it's Lowe's or Home Depot or any other wayfair or whatever you're buying, it's always an issue. Consumers have more visibility into small packages, but they want more visibility into large packages. When you look at the journey of a large item, you have to make plans ahead of time. Whether you're getting a refrigerator or lumber, you need to understand what's coming because you have to prepare for it. Especially when it's big and bulky items. When it's a small package, you know it could sit at your doorstep, but a refrigerator is not going to sit at your doorstep. So that visibility extremely important. Unfortunately, when you look at supply chain today, basically you get a scan when the item starts its delivery journey and you get one when it ends, probably after in most cases it's already arrived and you're like yeah, good, well be happy that you let me know after the fact. But I wish I got a scan when it was on the way. Are very similar to the scans we're used to or at least the notifications that we're used to when when the item. When small items kind of parcel items hit our door and I think Home Depot is making an effort or a stride towards that. But one day, in my opinion, you know, one or two days don't require that much communication. It's the longer journeys, the five, six, seven day journeys of these big and bulky items that need to be sold. So there's work to do there for sure. Yep.
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A
Cinder. Well said. Richard, how do you react to this story here and their quest to give more visibility to big and bulky?
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B
Not much to add to. I mean, sender's point is spot on. Right. It's, you know, tagging, kind of knowing where they are. But I'm going to kind of fast forward a little bit in the Asimov vein of thinking of disruption. And I think we're still traditionally thinking about materials and raw materials, large lumber, you know, concrete, things of that nature. I think on the horizon, not too far away, is what 3D printing is going to do to the entire supply chain. The elements of 3D printing capabilities have yet to really be fully advanced enough, but they will be where they could disrupt this entire supply chain and make bulky kind of deliveries obsolete. Because I can set up cheaper 3D printer capabilities on a much more hub and spoke model and therefore kind of reduce the lag time that these large items need. I think that might be five to ten years out, but it's not that far enough away that I wouldn't be discounting it right now.
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A
Yep, good stuff. And I think a prediction I'm going to take to the bank. Sennder, if Richard gives you a prediction, you can take it to the bank. Just, just giving you the heads up or whatever it's worth.
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C
So.
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A
All right, so Trisha has dropped a link right there below. Y' all could check it out. Let us know what your take is and let's let us know if you're one of the folks, maybe you're a contractor out there and you'd love it would change your business if you got more visibility. Let us know. Alan. Jacques, by the way, going back to something that Richard and Senator was talking about, says the foundation books are great. Apple plus series was almost unrecognizable. That's interesting. We're going to have to have a sci fi conversation, Allen. There's so much there.
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C
You have to read the books.
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B
Yeah, I mean, Alan's not off on that one. I, I get it, but it's, it's got to appreciate the attempt they make with such a big tone. You know, it's, it's, it's like Watching the Hobbit series come to life. Like, I mean it's such a big book that it's really hard to do and, and yes, this is the first stab at it. But it wasn't that.
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A
That's all I would say that's fair, you know, not, not to go down too far down this rabbit hole. I'm tempted not to say this, but I'm going to anyway. I think there was a legitimacy behind that rumor that the Star Wars. Star wars creator. No, no, Star Wars George Lucas. Yes. So George Lucas intentionally started on Episode four because he felt the technology of special effects and whatnot, whatnot wasn't where it needed to be for him to start with Chapter one. So it's really interesting how production and limitations innovations plays into how we tell, to come to Yalls point, how we tell these really big massive stories and how they unfold on screen. Let's see here. I want to dive into some news from our friends at the Big A. That's right, Amazon made some big news last week. In fact, I happen to be with Peter Larson from Amazon last week at Gartner Supply Chain Symposium where he shared the news right after the press release hit about Amazon Supply Chain Services. Folks, get ready for the interviews coming out soon. But in the meantime, as reported by the one and only Max Garland and Supply Chain Dive, Amazon has opened up its freight, distribution, fulfillment, parcel delivery. They're super brains for supply chain to all companies, not just Amazon sellers. So Amazon's know how along with their 200 US fulfillment centers, 80,000 trailers, a hundred plus aircraft that maybe Richard's gonna fly here and there, all that infrastructure and know how is ready to be put to use. Now Peter made this interesting analogy, actually is quoted in this story Cinder and Richard, he said quote, Amazon's bringing the infrastructure, intelligence and scale of its supply chain services proven over decades to businesses everywhere. Much like Amazon Web Services did for cloud computing. End quote. Now there's gonna be lots of takes on this story. It'll be really interesting to see how it unfolds and how it may change the game in some way, shape or form. But Cinder, your initial reaction to Amazon's news from last week.
- [23:21]
C
So I think it's not so much a supply chain story, I think it's a recommerce story. I think if you look at Shopify's journey with small business and medium sized business over the years, I think the important thing to remember is they left supply chain. They left it because they couldn't figure it out. And you saw A lot of that kind of volume being taken over by companies like Flexport. And you see this shift, this dynamic shift now towards the Amazon model. And it's because these third party marketplaces are becoming more and more popular. Amazon has a third party marketplace. Walmart is making amazing strides in its third party marketplace bases, is getting into the third party marketplace business. So there's like four or five major players in the third party and then there's probably 30 or 40 ancillary players just in the United States. And that in that space is growing at 30% a year plus where you know, e commerce is growing at a 6% ratio. And there has to be a market to serve that, not just digitally but physically as well. And that's what Amazon is tapping into. They're saying, look, we've done this very well for ourselves. There's a huge part of our business, there's a huge part of the E commerce business that we don't touch and we need to get into servicing these Shopify customers. Yeah, and that's really what they're doing. And I think that they're going to be successful, but I think they're going to have some competition. The, I'm sure that Walmart and other companies are not far away really the, the ones that are going to suffer here, Most likely the Flexports, the UPS is, the FedExes, the DHLS.
- [24:38]
A
Interesting. Cinder, I tend to agree with you. And really quick Richard, before I invite you, you know, one of the things we've loved covering for years now and Richard, you and I have talked about it a lot is Amazon and Walmart the, the arms race. It's been fascinating and in particular it's been fascinating to see what Walmart has done the last five or six years. Richard, your thoughts on. Let me see if I got this acronym right. A S C S Amazon Supply Chain Services. Your thoughts Richard?
- [25:02]
B
Yep. So I think Senator's hitting on it. And again I kind of just use the analogy. We've seen the story play out before insofar as this is no different than the original maritime wars where the shipping companies that first started, you know, on Christopher Columbus kind of going the East India Dutch company. Now there were gazillions of different shippers trying to do logistics across the oceans, you know, hundreds of years ago. We're just seeing the current manifestation of that in the digital era. And they're going to be a number of players that are trying to, but can't replicate what Amazon has done at scale or Walmart might be able to do. At scale there's just going to be a handful of, you know, kind of logistical supply chain entities that are doing the digital equivalent of what Maersk is doing on the oceans. It's the same story that's going to play out in the space race as well too. So I think Amazon, you know, is smart in doing this. They're opening up their logistics, they've proven themselves they can do it, you know, faster, cheaper, better than anybody else out there including the postal services, including ups. So I mean to send her point, anyone that does delivery to the, from the, you know, to the end user is going to get squeezed. And Amazon is smart enough and technically advanced enough to take advantage of what their know how and clearly can outdevelop anybody at this point. So I wouldn't bet against them. I just think, you know, there's space for one or two or three of these the same way you've got one or two, three major shipping, global shipping companies. Amazon's just in the pole position right now.
- [26:14]
A
Outstanding. As reported by Supply and demand Chain Executive Reverse logistics is being identified as a powerful strategic engine in one particular sector, the mobile device market. A lot of us know this, I know center Richard, we've talked about these things before. But Kimberly Allison really gets to the heart of the matter in this article with this quote, I think quote. With the smartphone return volumes continuing to surge driven by trade in and upgrade programs as well as insurance for placements and lease returns, the ability to recover, process and refurbish devices efficiently are central to how affordable high quality secondary market devices reach consumers worldwide. Now get this, customers got a record $1.59 billion in like credit or value via mobile devices that are traded programs in just the third quarter of 2025. That is a 46% increase over the same period just a year prior. But companies have to be masters reverse logistics domain or be able at least to be bring in expert operators to tap into all this opportunity. So cinder your reaction. Hopefully it's not too much like water is wet but your thoughts my friend?
- [27:26]
C
Water is wet but you know it's, it's interesting. People look at reverse logistics through the lens of trade in and I think that's the lowest hanging fruit, especially on the mobile side. Reverse logistics as a whole is much more than that. And I think the easiest path, the kind of monetization for retailers is looking at programs such as cell phones and higher end items. But there's just so much more to that. You know big boxes have so many categories up to 500 categories and I think it's extremely important to look at the entire ecosystem for everything to do with returns and trade in and kind of see where the money's going from a venture perspective. Historically, if we're talking about where dollars have gone from a reverse logistics point of view, or at least an investment perspective, they've gone into these portals and you've seen this really kind of high end demand for returns portals by venture capital. But what ends up happening is they over invest in a specific area that has really low kind of TAM. And it seems to them that it's over 800 billion business. It's not really, it's 800 billion on the supply chain side. So more money should be thrown at the supply chain e commerce side and less at this portal side and more money in places like the ITAD businesses that support this mobile phone trade in ecosystem. But there's also other categories there, there's computers, there's televisions, there's power tools, there's home improvement. There are so many places that we can do so much better in reverse. And I think the world's just waking up to it. Especially with the advent of like robotics and artificial intelligence and all that. It's letting businesses analyze what's happening in the crevices kind of under their locations and they realize that there's massive opportunities regardless of the size of the business. Unfortunately, they're not experts in doing it. So what they do is they seek out experts in getting the job done.
- [29:12]
A
That's right Cinder. That is right Richard, I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this topic.
- [29:17]
B
Well, I think cinder's hit on the major, you know, kind of talking points here and reverse logistics has actually been around. Well, it's a stepping stone towards what I would consider to be what we should be thinking about, which is true circularity. But that said, you know, ITAD's been around since, God, since I've been in the technology business. Back in 2000, you know, I helped develop a bunch of that stuff at ebay. I launched an entire company focused on this. And you know, what we can see here is through the returns that you're mentioning, Scott, you know, cell phones, computer equipment, television, anything that's got a fairly rapid tech refresh cycle has driven this reverse logistics need because there's a lot of money to be made in taking these back, refurbishing them and reselling them to the secondary and tertiary markets. So I think that's again, money drives most of this stuff. But at the end of the day I Think people are now waking up to this should run across all aspects of things that are being delivered, right? So it's raw materials that sit out there and I keep, you know, thinking about a circularity gap report where we talk about the hundreds of billions of metric tons of material that's extracted out of the Earth. I think it's 100 million metric tons of materials that are pulled out of the Earth every year per the circularity gap report. If I look at that, and that's just a raw material count and I take that over the last 20 years, that means I have, you know, 20 million or whatever it is, billion, you know, metric tons of materials sitting on top of the earth that's far more efficient to reuse, repurpose and refurbish, if you will, not just technology. So I think technology is kind of opening the gateway for people to revisit what reverse logistics is a requirement for, but leads to how we really reuse these materials that are sitting above the ground in a more efficient way. It's not only good for the ecosystem, good for the planet, but it economically because going to make a crap ton more sense to refurbish those things versus extract raw materials which is really expensive and refine that stuff, which is really expensive. So I think it's, it's moving. I wish it moved faster. But you know, I've been talking ITADs for 20 years, you know, now all of a sudden it's a hot topic and it's like well, you know, well it took a while to catch up but you know, there's so much more to do with this is is the point.
- [31:12]
A
There is tons. Richard and Cinder and I appreciate both of yalls perspectives and your passion in this area. By the way folks, we've mentioned the acronym I tad several times when cinder and Richard's comments there. Let's just make sure everybody's with us. And I had to google it, make sure I got it right because my God. A couple of guesses but it's been interesting. I've been in some of these facilities where they're, they're taking apart trade ins and being able to get in position so they can really utilize every single gram of the material that comes in via trade ins. IT Asset disposition is itad. You're going to hear a lot more of that acronym probably in the months and years ahead.
- [31:48]
C
But Scott, I'll tell you that's where it started. It is where it started. But what Richard's talking about is way more than that. There's more Raw material on top of the earth, which is what then under it. So extract it or figure out how. And that's where the money should be going. That's where the VC dollar should be going to figure out how to repurpose that because eventually we're going to run out. And this isn't from a hug a tree perspective. This is just straight economics. We have to figure it out. And it's also why guys like Elon want to go to space, right? Because they know the raw materials are there and it's just much easier to do there than here.
- [32:19]
A
Interesting, interesting stuff. Cinder and Richard. Well, we're going to have to park it there for now. We're going to get into a second cousin maybe of this conversation here in just a minute with Cinder Shamus and the cool things they're doing over at Return Pro. But hey, Tony Shiroto, we're trying not to let you down. My friend Tony says Supply Chain now is bringing light to the dark side. Keep it going. Hey, we're trying hard, folks. And Trisha dropped a link to that last article we were just talking about. So really appreciate that. Tricia. Really quick, folks, want to, you know, if we do anything, every edition of the Buzz is bring resources and inform perspective to you, right? That's our mission. And folks, if you like this kind of programming, you can go check out our live programming, our really creatively titled live programming tab at Supply Chain now dot com. I think we've got nine webinars and live streams coming up, all live. We would love to hear your comments and perspectives on all those shows including, hey, leadership never goes out of style. Unfortunately, some folks don't subscribe to it, but we've got two hall of Famers in Regine Vallee and Billy Ray Taylor, who's joining us this coming Friday the 15th. I believe it's already May 15th, 12 noon Eastern Time where we discuss their best practices, their proven best practices to not only fine tuning your strategy, but also truly driving executional performance and excellence. So come join us on the 15th. Man sender, what happened to this year? We're blinking and it's May 15th already. Is that, does that feel like it to you?
- [33:45]
C
It feels. Every day feels like it's moving faster and faster. Too much stuff to do.
- [33:49]
A
Oh my gosh. All right, so let's do this. I want to dive in to some of the cool things you're doing. Cinder Thomas, Me and Richard do. And I want to give credit where it's where credit's due. Right. Thanks to Tony and some other good friends there in the chat you and I met years and years ago.
- [34:05]
B
Right.
- [34:05]
A
And you had already been what I'll call a trailblazer in the reverse logistics and returns management space for now years at that time, about 20 years now. Cinder. I mean, gosh, time just flies by when you're having fun.
- [34:17]
C
It's been a long time.
- [34:18]
A
It has been a long time. But we're moving at lightning speed now and I really appreciate that. So when you think of key developments and trends in the space that we're describing that we kind of covered in that last story, those that are really important for supply chain leaders to understand, appreciate and maybe even track, what's the short list that comes to your brain? Cinder.
- [34:37]
C
So it's interesting. I'd start with the past instead of the future. Like if you look historically, supply chain has been reverse logistics as a whole has been moving product from one location to the next and kind of figuring out how a retailer or brand can get a credit based on the returns that occurred and then shoving it into some sort of liquidation pallet, putting it on a website, hoping that somebody who has a business somewhere bids some random amount. Recently, the whole kind of concept of the circular economy, the UCC codes, the addition to the reverse logistics, the circular economy, circular economy getting its own code, that's been a very interesting thing and I think it got a lot of attention. What I think is happening though, there's a lot of convolution. And Richard, you and I talked about this before. There's a lot of this confusion between circularity and reverse and they get jumbled in together a lot. And yes, they belong together. But there's a real differentiation between extracting commodities that have already been used from a recycling perspective out of a piece of technology and reusing that technology. Reusing that technology should be the first thing we do. Or that commodity, whether it's a piece of clothing or a computer or whatever, we need to try to reuse it. Whether it's in this market or a second world country or third world country, whether it's a mobile phone or a garment or a piece of furniture, that's the most important thing. And I think that that has gotten a lot of attention over the last three to four to five years. Additionally, like I said, VC dollars came into this market because somebody, because the NRF started basically because of Tony. And that's where Tony gets a ton of credit. And I think he's solely responsible for this. He started advertising to the world through his reverse logistics Association. That returns represented a huge amount of that retail gdp. When he started doing that, people started paying attention to it and venture dollars started showing up and saying, well, wait a minute, if it's $250 billion industry a decade ago and suddenly it's an $800 billion industry, it's growing. Well, whether it's growing or not is kind of irrelevant. The fact is it represents a massive amount of the gdp. And I think the relevance comes from E commerce. As long as E commerce continues to grow, reverse logistics is going to grow and circularity is going to grow. So from our perspective, like we see a ton of dollars going into the VC world, but if you want me to predict the future, I really hope a ton of dollars from the VC world stops going into these portals that are doing fairly poorly because they can't figure out how to monetize it and goes into supply chain on the reverse into recommerce, which is what matters to me. It's always going to be some sort of software to enable the process, some sort of physical touch which is supply chain at the end of the day and a lack of transportation rather than more transportation and ultimately some sort of recommerce which is so important. And that's what you need to do. You need to get this product back on a shelf first and foremost before you start trying to break it apart for its raw commodities. Because if you can resell it and give it a second life that's better for the environment. It's always reduce, reuse, recycle. We don't plan to reduce. That's not just society we live in, unfortunately. We, we love capital and we love to spend money. So let's try to reuse before we recycle. And that's kind of the way I look at the world. And that's the future. I would predict everything from that 50,000 foot basin.
- [37:33]
A
Okay, Richard, I like reduce, reuse, recycle. But we heard a lot of the things there from Cinders. He talks about kind of the, some of the top forces shaping the space. Your thoughts, Richard?
- [37:43]
B
Yeah, I mean he's spot on. We're going to, we're going to confirm complete each other's sentences when it comes to this stuff because he's obviously thought a lot about it and you know, the whole kind of again, just, just reverse logistics. That's been around for a while. Right. And that's interesting. But what's really going to pave the way for a, again a step function change in both how we cohabitate on this planet. But then also how we economically take advantage of the things we've already pulled out of the ground is in the area of circularity. And I just wanted to clarify my numbers I threw in there for Tricia to share with everybody. But there's a great chart from National Geographic, ironically, thing that kind of kicked off the circularity gap report that comes from the circular economy group out of the Netherlands and it shows the hundred billion tons, metric tons of materials that we pull out of the earth every year, right. And kind of where they go and how little they're used. And since the circularity gap report has come out over I think five, six or seven years right now, we haven't moved the needle to center's point. It's, it's about 7% is kind of what we're reducing, reusing and repurposing. That hasn't moved. And it's like, well why not? Right? Like, and, and it's just because there's no economic engine behind it. It needs capital. If you look at the itads again, they've proven that you can really, you know, make a lot of money, you know, repurposing these things that have already been out there through a refresh cycle. But you can apply the same methodology to all raw materials in a way that, that we also have capabilities today that we didn't have 10 years ago, 20 years ago. The technology exists where we can break things down. We have robotics, we have automation. So there's no reason not or, or even just, you know, the raw materials down into something that could be 3D printed for goodness sake. I mean I've seen some, some people doing stuff like that. So again it's, it just, you need to make circularity sexy. That's something I talked about about 12 years ago and it just hasn't gotten there yet. You know, people still think in a very linear fashion. I buy it, I bought it off the shelf. New. Yeah, we see people kind of trying to reuse and redo things today. But it's, it's, it's always been a little bit of that stigma around, you know, re, you know, I'm buying something used and I go back to the automobile markets. You know, the Mercedes popularized, the pre owned Mercedes and that opened up the entire automobile meal market. Where I would argue today most people look at people who buy brand new cars and like you're silly. Why are you buying a brand new car? Buy something used. We got to cascade that across everything that we use. Not, not just the kind of token materials that are out there and I think, you know, center's hidden on it. But it's going to take a concerted effort. And I do think it's capital that's going to drive that.
- [39:53]
A
And just as a extreme example, perhaps, I am living proof. We are still running a 2004 Honda Accord. And it runs like a top. Oh my gosh. Cinder and Richard, it's crazy.
- [40:07]
C
Classic is cool.
- [40:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, classic is cool. That's right. And I've never been called cool in my life, but I'll take it.
- [40:12]
B
Ty. It's got in sender too. And sender's kind of opining on this one a little bit. But if you think about deep space exploration, you can't send a ship up with enough materials to get to Mars. So the concept of circularity is systemic to our deep space exploration capabilities. And that's something that they're thinking about in a huge fashion. And I'm talking things when again, you look at the still suit for from Dune, it repurposes all of the bodily moisture from a, from a human being. That's the concept we need to be applying because it's applicable to even us going into space.
- [40:43]
C
It's natural to the human, it's natural to our entire species. It's natural to the Earth.
- [40:47]
B
Yes.
- [40:48]
C
Circularity is how it works. Water funneling, it's just the way it works. Yes.
- [40:54]
A
Well, I was just laughing because Richard illustrated why I have opted out of the astronaut program because I would not be the first one volunteering for 100% recycling of all human.
- [41:08]
B
That's already what happens. I mean, that's the part that's kind of.
- [41:11]
A
I'm in Mission Control. Happy to be in Mission Control in Houston or wherever else. But anyway, getting aside, by the way, Richard mentioned some additional resources there. Trisha has dropped the link. CircularityGAP World 2022. Check that out. Couldn't quite get that graphic you shared. Having a little login issue here, Richard, but we'll try to maybe share later.
- [41:31]
B
Yeah, it's just an old one. It's from an old report from National Geographic. It kind of shows all the use of 100 billion materials, you know, and how it flows through.
- [41:37]
A
Right. Fascinating.
- [41:38]
C
You know, Richard, you said something interesting to me and I always think about that. You talked about the fact that you're a pilot and how big of an avid pilot. I use this case all the time. I remember when I, when I went through flight school, which I never graduated, but I went through flight school, they talked about an alternator and how it spins and how like in the 20s and 30s there would be these avid pilots and they would use these alternators and then eventually they would use alternators from automobiles on airplanes. And they kept on crashing and the insurance industry stepped in and said, sorry, you can't do that. These tinkers would repurpose these alternators and turn them the other way to make them work for airplanes. So I mean it's been around for a long time. So smart people use it all the time.
- [42:17]
A
We got to expand it to the point y' all both are making. And Tony's you know, writing it down here in comments. We need certified pre owned, pre loved programs to make the return goods sexier like the auto industry did, to Richard's point. That's right. All right, so let's do this. We're going to have a got about 10 minutes. We got, we got a lot of good stuff to get to Cinder and Richard, I want us to do this first. Cinder. We referenced Return Pro a couple times now. I loved the tour I was a part of, thanks to Tony and rl and back last September I think it was, we went into one of your facilities out in the Dallas area. Fascinating stuff. Tell us in a nutshell what Return Pro does. Cinder.
- [42:54]
C
So basically we solve returns. I know that's a pretty big statement, but we've had a lot of different circularity mission statements over the years. It's come down to two simple words. We solve returns. Ultimately we do this through software in many different areas. Whether it's portals or vendor hubs where retailers and vendors kind of meet to figure out the financials between their returns and different return to vendor credits which become very complex and enterprise business all the way through warehouse management software specific to returns, all the way to recommerce, including physically managing the facilities for our clients. For ourselves. Multi tenant buildings, we have, you know, eight in the United States, we have a few in Mexico, some in Southeast Asia and Canada. We're about to expand to Europe. There's a lot of physical supply chain that's necessary to cover the footprint to solve these returns. And then ultimately the second shelf, the recommerce piece, the extremely important e commerce piece and the data layer that sits on top of it. That's what we do as a company and we hope to see more companies like ours out there. Ultimately I think you asked me what I think of the future. It's very simple for me. I think in reverse logistics it's consolidation. I think that's, that's what matters because I think a lot of these problems that Richard was talking about are going to be solved through consolidation. People don't like to see massive companies, but unless you throw a lot of small venture capital at things and solve the little problems one at a time and then have a big enough company like you saw in transportation with like FedEx, UPS, whatever to be able to pick up these smaller companies and then really focus on expanding their share of the tam, you're not going to have these innovative breakthroughs and you're not going to be able to make big strides into circularity. So you need consolidation. I think it's going to happen.
- [44:33]
A
All right, so Richard, we heard a lot there from Cinder on what Return Pro does, as well as some predictions which we're going to ask more of him in a minute. What'd you hear there, Richard?
- [44:42]
B
Again, he's been at it for 18 years, I mean, clearly has thought a lot about the space. I think we share a lot of the same concepts here. It's hard not to. And you kind of think about where we need to go from a circulator standpoint. I guess one of the questions I'd follow up on is given where you are now, you've had a 20 year run with your turn pro, right? So 20 years is if I look forward 20 years, my God, 2046, for goodness sake. I mean we will be in space, we will be Star Trek, we will be going to planets, but I'll just even short it down to five years. You know, you're in a very interesting place under to help kind of manifest some of these changes towards circularity. How are you guys kind of doing that on any other small basis or even a global basis?
- [45:17]
C
So I think the most important thing is to be able to figure out these verticals. At the end of the day, we kind of look ourselves as, as a similar to an Amazon in terms of vertical clarity or Walmart or whatever. We don't play in a specific space. We play in three different elements. So we play in software and even within software there's three or four different platforms that we have to developed to make this happen. And we play in the supply chain space, then we play in this recommerce space. And it's difficult because you have to run a business with three verticals. I go raise money and I ask, hey, give me money for a business, for three businesses in one venture is going to look at me and laugh me out of the room. Ultimately I had to prove this model. So at this point we're ready. I think the last three years has just been expansion and growth. The idea is to be able to tackle this and kind of spread it across the different verticals that we're in. We started with the easiest hanging fruit for us, which is consumer electronics. We're not very strong in apparel. We've become stronger and stronger in furniture, home goods and things like that. It's about expanding those verticals and becoming best in class in each one of them across the different verticals and understanding what you need to develop that business. And some of it is buy, some of it is build. And it's a, it's, it's a collaboration of that and it really finding out, finding the best startups in the market, figuring out the most innovative things that they're doing and either partnering with them or acquiring them to get the business bigger and, and have solved more of the.
- [46:36]
A
There's a great segue there. Perhaps Sennder, perhaps. It's a great question, Richard, but I want, I want to bring this up here. This is Clarity. It's new venture named Clarity made waves earlier this year, maybe late last year. I was fortunate to see a bunch of us were fortunate to see a demo in person in your facility, Sennder. And why is this significant sender Clarity?
- [46:55]
C
So this is one of these things that comes out of sheer necessity. There was no company that this, it didn't exist. And we just saw from our retail partners just nonstop fraud. And even worse, you know, there's two types of kind of fraud in returns. There's the kind where an individual consumer does it and maybe they're taking out a USB cable or maybe they're wearing a dress once. It's extremely difficult to spot. And you're, as a retailer, you're not going to ding them for it. You're going to try to understand who these customers are and see how much money that adds up to and maybe restrict their customer profile. And then there's really organized fraud, which is more, you know, sinister in nature. And there's a lot of organized fraud, Asian fraud, where they send brand new items. We would get thousands, tens of thousands of these items a month. Whether it was Apple items or whatever seem to be more expensive items. But we've seen soap, you know, the little fancy foam soap and the different pinks and the greens. We've seen those sent as fraud. It was very difficult for the human eye to tell. And we were fumbling along in our facilities trying to figure out how to do this. We figured out eventually that the best way to do it is X Ray. We look for people who can do it. I found a couple of partners that were capable of doing this and we launched this pilot, so to speak, and it was an investment as a company and that's what Return Pro did and partnered with this company called Clarity, which was amazing, and developed this prototype in less than a year. And now we're in pilot phase with two major retailers, I can't say which, but they're really, really big. And what we're doing is basically just using the machine. There's an AI element to it, there's an X ray element to it. It identifies if there's missing components in the item, if there's missing accessories in the item, which is a different. It's completely different from fraud because it could tell if the item's reusable, it could tell you if the item's in the original condition, meaning how it's laying in the box, if this, if the packaging is still on it in the right way. So a human doesn't need to touch it. So you save a lot of those supply chain dollars. And of course it looks inside it and sees if it's fake or it's fraud. Using the X Ray technology that it has, I mean, it solves a lot of problems very quickly. It's still slow right now. I think it's like three seconds per scan. And the ingestion for the first kind of template which it creates, which AI uses as a kind of golden template, takes about 10 seconds. But over time, hopefully in the next six months, we'll get it down to a much faster speed. We're putting these in depots and stores and the idea is just to stop the fraud and stop the stupidity.
- [49:19]
A
I love it. I love it. Cinder, Richard, I want to get you to. I had a leg up because I've seen it in person and I heard a lot of the use cases and the impact and the. So what? So to be honest, I'm already a fan, but Richard, react to what Clarity and react to what Cinder shared about the importance of this startup.
- [49:37]
B
Well, again, what we're at the precipice of is trying to figure out how to analyze all the raw materials that come back right, whether in component form, assembled form or otherwise, and determine where it goes after that. So this is the stepping stone towards that kind of circular pathway back towards how to, how to repurpose these things, reuse these things. You gotta identify what you get in the box first, what condition is it in, how's it put together, is it reused? In original form. Can I repurpose this? Do I need to refurbish this or do I have to break out the piece parts to do something with it to move into something else? So this technology strikes me as kind of an early kind of step, negative one towards that circular on ramp of taking those, you know, pre used or first used raw materials and trying to ingest them back into a circular, true circular supply chain for, you know, repurposing and reusing, whether it's in again, original form or otherwise. So this is, this, you know, it's exciting stuff.
- [50:26]
C
Brilliant. Richard. You hit on something we talked about, we haven't shared it. It's so crazy that in a five minute conversation you figure it out. You're a brilliant guy.
- [50:34]
A
Well, thanks, man.
- [50:36]
C
I could tell you this. We talked about actually looking at landfill items, specifically older consumer electronics and being able to tell the kinds of metals and materials that are inside to be able to repurpose it. Because you don't want to invest in something that doesn't have gold, silver, borium, lithium, whatever. So you want to be able to tell it. You don't know if it's sitting in some landfill or in some recycling pallet, but there is. So there's definitely a lot more uses for these types of machines, especially if they're AI powered.
- [51:04]
A
We're going to have to have the Clarity team join us. Cinder, we're going to have to have
- [51:07]
C
the way smarter than I am.
- [51:10]
A
Well, let's get them on. And you know what? We'll. We'll pair him with the brilliant Richard Donaldson and Chop Liver over here. How about that? All right, so Cinder and Richard, I'd love to get more fearless predictions, but for the sake of time, for the sake of time, I want to share a resource and then we're going to make sure folks know how to connect with CINDER and the Return Pro team because there's so much good stuff there. And you know what? Cinder is a really good kind guy. He'll bring in tour of the facility. It'll be amazing to you. It'll change your perspective around the massive opportunity industry has. And he'll tell you about Clarity. That'd be cool. All right, so really quick. Resources, resources, folks, beyond the live programming tab, we want you to check out our resource Hub. It is a growing, vibrant part of our website. We've got lots and lots of written articles, resources at the aptly named Hub, Hub Tools, guides, you name it. And got a new blog series called the Executive Exchange. This here is where I sat down with Lamb Weston Chief Supply Chain Officer Sylvia Wilkes. You'll be surprised with some of the perspective that she shares. So venture over to Supply Chain now dot com. Check out the resource hub. I want to make sure folks know I connect with both of y'.
- [52:23]
B
All.
- [52:23]
A
Cinder and Richard. Cinder, let's start with you and the Return Pro team. How can folks track you down, my friend?
- [52:30]
C
LinkedIn's probably the easiest way for me personally. And if you want to know about the company, the website returnpro.com feel free anytime or reach out to me on LinkedIn.
- [52:38]
A
Leave your returns to the pros. A store, little screenshot of the website, go check it out. Lots of resources there as well@returnpro.com and also you can track and send her down on LinkedIn. Same question for you, Richard. If they can't, you know you're gonna be up in the air for a big chunk of your day to day. But when you're here, feet on the ground, how can folks track you down?
- [53:00]
B
Well, it's going to be LinkedIn again. Always been there, been there for a long time. But. But I don't want to lose sight of the fact that, you know, starlink now being pervasive in general aviation and the aircraft of today. We've got Internet connectivity, so you might be surprised. I can do the next Supply Chain episode from the air without hesitation because we got the 500 megs up and down.
- [53:17]
A
Okay, Richard, we're going to figure that out. I'm not sure. Maybe we have you on autopilot or maybe we have you long cross country. Yeah. The pilots in the left seat and the co pilots in the right seat. Do I have that right, Richard? Okay, so maybe you're up and you're in the right seat and you can, you can let someone else have the controls. But regardless, we're gonna figure that out. Folks, we dropped a link to Return Pro and to Cinder and Richard right there on LinkedIn. Folks, connect with them. You're gonna love talking shop with both of these brilliant individuals. All right, Cinder, Shamus, it is a pleasure. Great to have you back on Supply Chain now. It's been too long. I'm already planning your next appearance. Are you ready? Are you ready, my friend?
- [53:57]
C
Always ready. And thank you for having me. Really appreciate it. And Richard, thank you for the conversation. Thank you, intriguing person.
- [54:02]
B
Yeah, thank you.
- [54:03]
C
And so are you. Scott. Scott. You're not riffraff. I enjoy talking to you on and off.
- [54:08]
A
That's right. Hey, it's all in good fun and it takes, you know, it's terrific to lean into conversations with folks that are changing industry in the direction it needs to go. So big thanks to Senator Shamus again CEO with Return Pro. Big thanks to my friend Richard Donaldson who I learn a ton from every time he shows up. Richard, thanks for being here.
- [54:27]
B
My friend Scott, always a pleasure.
- [54:28]
A
Folks, check out our friends Optologic. You can learn more about the innovative things they're doing over@optilogic.com it's just that easy. It spells just like it sounds. But of course, big thanks to Amanda Trisha behind the scenes. Most importantly, thanks to our global audience or SCM Global fam for being here with us. No, we couldn't hit everybody's comments and questions, but hey, I think we got. Let me see if I can find it really quick. I think we got Tony's seal of approval. Cinder and Richard, great session date. Sure was very actionable. Inspiring session of the buzz here powered by our friends Optilogic. But here's your homework folks. You know it. You got to take one thing you heard here from Cinder or from Richard. Just take one thing. There's lots of options. Do something with it, right? Share it with the team. Take action. It's about deeds, not words. That's what's going to change the world. And with that said, on behalf the entire Supply Chain now team Scott Luton, challenging you to do good, get forward, be the change that's needed and we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.
- [55:22]
C
Thanks everybody.
- [55:24]
A
Join the Supply Chain now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supply chain now.com subscribe to Supply Chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to Supply Chain Now Wherever you get your podcasts.