The Buzz: Why Supply Chain Resilience Depends on Judgment, Data, and Action

Summary

Podcast Summary: Supply Chain Now – The Buzz: Why Supply Chain Resilience Depends on Judgment, Data, and Action

Date: July 31, 2026
Hosts: Scott Luton & Guest co-host David Shillingford
Special Guest: Shannon Vaillancourt (Founder & President, RateLinx)

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Episode Overview

This episode of "The Buzz" brings together Scott Luton, David Shillingford, and Shannon Vaillancourt to dissect the complex landscape of supply chain resilience. The conversation orbits around judgment, data, and action as the primary drivers for building robust, future-ready supply chains. Real-world anecdotes, audience banter, and expert insights weave throughout the episode, offering both practical takeaways and a bit of much-needed humor. Key discussions include lessons from the World Cup’s logistics, the ongoing impact of tariffs, evolving consumer grocery habits, the relationship between data and AI, and the human element in automated decision-making.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Supply Chain Lessons from World Cup 2026

[02:37 – 04:08]

• Stadium Turf Logistics: The achievement of growing and transporting high-quality turf across the U.S. was recognized as a logistical marvel.
  • "The praise from the players was high and universal and throughout the tournament. So I think that was a logistical achievement and never been done before." – David [02:37]
• Demand Spikes & Supply Risk: Anecdotes about beer shortages in Boston highlighted unexpected demand surges—reminding professionals that demand spikes can be harder to manage than supply disruptions.
  • "Supply risk is often talked about but sometimes demand spikes can be your biggest problem... The way that the fans were welcomed by Americans in big cities and small towns was wonderful." – David [02:37]

2. The Power of Generalists and Specialists in Supply Chain

[05:52 – 08:13]

• Value of Generalists: Generalists connect dots across verticals, providing holistic insight, while specialists add depth in niche areas. Both are necessary for a resilient industry.
  • "Because we're looking at so many different topics, we tend to be good at connecting dots across themes that either need connecting or, you know, maybe it's not obvious... it's fun to explore those things." – David [07:04]
• Community Engagement: Feedback and open commentary (especially on LinkedIn) nurture growth and expose experts to perspectives they might overlook.

3. Tariffs & Forced Labor: Ongoing Headaches for Supply Chains

[13:32 – 15:24]

• New Tariffs: Recently announced U.S. tariffs on over 80 countries (10-12.5%) exploit legal tools citing forced labor but may reflect broader trade policy trends.
• Expert Reaction:
  • Shannon: Policy changes are constant and often politically driven, making strategic planning difficult: "As soon as you start getting it figured out, it's going to change. It's almost like the weather in the Midwest these days." [13:32]
  • David: Tariffs add complexity and uncertainty, hurting trade and the economy. Forced labor should be tackled with more targeted approaches: "It puts the topic in the spotlight in the wrong way. This isn't how to solve or go at forced labor..." [14:39]
• Resource Highlighted: Slave Free Alliance for actionable education and advocacy.

4. Grocery Spending Trends and Supply Chain Implications

[18:50 – 21:54]

• Data from Bain & Company: U.S. grocery unit sales have dropped for 5 months straight; 80% of consumers aim to spend less monthly.
• Drivers Identified: Cuts to benefits, high gas prices, potential GLP-1 medication effects, and more consumers seeking stretch in grocery budgets.
  • "If you are on a GLP-1, what you're supposed to do is eat more protein and you should be getting, you know, more food at the grocery store...I wouldn't blame the GLP-1 necessarily." – Shannon [18:50]
• Waste Reduction as a Positive: David hopes reduced sales may reflect less food waste at home: "Maybe people are being more thoughtful... If people are really feeling the pressure... maybe they're wasting less food at home. That's my hope." [20:00]

5. Judgment vs. Data: The New Frontier of Supply Chain Resilience

[24:00 – 28:57]

• Key Takeaways from Rodney Thomas & Alex Solace’s Article [26:13]:
  1. Resilience is a leadership challenge, not just a tech challenge.
  2. Operationalizing risk is essential—embed it into real processes, not just documentation.
  3. Structural flexibility (relationships, options) matters as much as visibility.
  4. Judgment will define future leaders—systems thinking over pure specialization.
• Critical Quote:
  • "Almost all the points you made ultimately come back to action. The difference between observing risk and actually doing something about it. Your organization does not become more resilient until you actually do something, until you take action." – David [26:13]
• Shannon adds: Judgment equals anticipation; it comes from experience and understanding patterns, and is fundamentally about making good decisions with available facts.
  • "The more experience you have..., the more you can anticipate what might happen, which is then going to drive your judgment call." – Shannon [27:44]

6. The State of Data Quality and AI in Supply Chain

[35:54 – 38:43]

• Not a New Problem—Just Faster: AI exposes poor data quality more quickly; it doesn’t fix the core issue.
  • "Because of AI, it's making it faster for you to see how important it is... AI just remembers everything that you feed it. If you feed it gaps and inconsistencies, that's how it's going to respond." – Shannon [35:54]
• Human in the Loop: Most companies succeeding with AI have long invested in high-quality data and well-designed processes.
  • "What percentage is appropriate to be automating? Where does the machine stop and the human start?" – David [38:43]

7. AI vs. Human Judgment: Striking the Right Balance

[39:12 – 41:58]

• AI Is Best For...: Eliminating repetitive, time-wasting manual processes, surfacing actionable insights, running scenarios.
• Human Decision-Making: Still essential for complex, high-stakes, and context-rich decisions.
  • "Most of the decisions that AI makes very well are the routine decisions where there's not a lot of context required... but finding out and maybe pointing you in the right direction—that's the best use of AI." – Shannon [39:12]
  • "If I'm deciding to change suppliers... that's clearly something that humans have got to be involved in. And... anything where there's a human on the other... that's where other humans should be involved." – David [40:57]

8. Real-World Anecdotes & Memorable Quotes

• Shipping Memes Relatable to All [32:16 – 35:01]:

  • Shannon’s favorite: "Shipment enters witness protection—no tracking, new identity." – a nod to the frustration of missing parcels.
    • "That's the worst thing ever, when it just disappears because you never hear from it again." – Shannon [33:27]
  • David’s favorite: "Ship parcel only because Steve likes that button." – referencing the internal quirks and inefficiencies of many organizations.
    • "The account manager always wins because it's like, 'what, you want to upset company B?' So there's a lot of that. It costs a lot of money." – David [35:01]

• Human Element in Technology:

  • "I've had people get just downright angry with me over talking about AI and they're like, 'Our data's bad, going to make bad decisions,' and I'm like, 'Well, you're already making them today. You're using the same data.'" – Shannon [36:28]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:37] — World Cup Supply Chain Takeaways
• [05:52] — Generalists vs. Specialists in Supply Chain
• [13:32] — New Tariffs & Forced Labor
• [18:50] — U.S. Grocery Sales Trends
• [24:00] — Judgment & Leadership in Supply Chain Resilience
• [35:54] — Data Quality, AI, and Decision Automation
• [39:12] — AI’s Limits vs. Human Judgment
• [32:16 & 35:01] — Shipping Memes & Relatable Anecdotes
• [42:40] — Favorite Customer Anecdotes (RateLinx)
• [44:18] — Conference Value: Learning through Conversation

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Memorable Quotes

"Your organization does not become more resilient until you actually do something, until you take action."

— David Shillingford [26:13]

"The more experience you have in something, the more you can anticipate what might happen, which is then going to drive your judgment call."

— Shannon Vaillancourt [27:44]

"AI just remembers everything that you feed it. So if you feed it gaps and inconsistencies, that's how it's going to respond. It's no different than a person."

— Shannon Vaillancourt [35:54]

"What percentage is appropriate to be automating? Where does the machine stop and the human start?"

— David Shillingford [38:43]

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Key Takeaways

• Resilience is a leadership and judgment challenge, not just a technology challenge. Technology matters, but decisive, informed action rooted in strong judgment is what drives future-ready supply chains.
• Data quality is more crucial than ever – AI only exposes existing issues faster; it’s not a cure. High-impact organizations have invested in cleaning and structuring their data for years.
• AI should automate the routine, but the human element remains indispensable for complex decisions, context-driven exceptions, and relationship management.
• Operationalizing risk and creating structural flexibility are critical for resilience—don't wait for a crisis to build capabilities.
• Community engagement and discussion (generalists + specialists) fuels innovation and practical problem-solving across the supply chain industry.

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Further Resources & How to Connect

• Shannon Vaillancourt (RateLinx): LinkedIn | RateLinx.com
• David Shillingford: LinkedIn (Daily posts on supply chain hot topics)
• Featured Article on Judgment in Resilience: [Supply Chain Management Review link (via Rodney Thomas & Alex Solace)]
• Resource Hub: Supply Chain Now Resource Library
• Slave Free Alliance: slavefreealliance.org

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Supply Chain now the number one voice of Supply Chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights and real Supply Chain leadership

[B]

from across the globe.

[A]

One conversation at a time.

[B]

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be. Scott Luton and very special guest host David Schilling with you here on Supply Chain. Now. Welcome to today's live stream. Hey David, how you doing today?

[C]

Yeah, great. Oh good.

[B]

All good. We got a bunch of folks. Alan Jock tuned in from beautiful Canada. Great to see you Alan. Looking forward to dinner next week. My friend. Trisha's drop link to zebra folks. Go check that out. Doing some cool things there. Larry Klein, LK is back with us from Southern Georgia. You know how hot it gets down in South Georgia, David.

[C]

Hotter than Connecticut.

[B]

That is an accurate answer. Ring a ding ding. That is an accurate answer. Helmut, great to see you my friend. You're back. It's been too while he says dream team David, that's high praise, huh?

[C]

Well, we'll take it.

[B]

We will take it. But great to see you Helmut. Look forward to your perspective on a variety of topics here today. And Jorg tuned in from is that Hanau, Germany? Did I say that right? David, do you think that sounds right?

[C]

Yeah, sounds good.

[B]

You're correct my pronunciation I think it's Hanau. But please correct and first time listener. Well Horga, look forward to to your perspective on a variety of topics here today. And as T Squared says who holds down the Fort Force on YouTube. Another manic Monday with Murphy's Law. Bring on the nourishment AT Squared you know as well. Let's get into it David. There's three things I want to hit before Shannon Valencourt joins us. We got a jam packed show here today and I want to start really quick folks. We didn't have a new edition of what that said. Normally we cover that first but but go check out the last edition. We've got a lot of great feedback on addition we released about a week and a half ago and you're not going to want to miss that and you want to subscribe so you don't miss any live programming. So folks go check that out. But David, I want to start the first of three things here today for Shannon joins us is the World cup was a smashing success I would say right? The games, the moments, the logistics, all the visitors that ventured here to the US and and evidently enjoyed the experience. I think we've got a ton and ton tons of new football fans and I enjoyed your regular reporting and analysis. It seems like of the World cup experience, the business side and a lot more. So David, if you would give us a few supply chain inspired key takeaways From World Cup 2026, I'll give you a couple.

[C]

The first that I think is just a remarkable achievement was the turf at the stadiums that was grown all across the country at different farms, using different cities, seats, different. Everything else was then rolled up and brought to the stadiums installed and the praise from the players was high and universal and throughout the tournament. So I think that was a logistical achievement and never been done before. So that's number one. I think number two is maybe an indication courtesy of the Scottish fans that supply risk is often talked about but sometimes demand spikes can be your biggest problem. Boston and the pubs in Boston found that out. It was great to watch people not just having a couple of beers, but also being funny and charming at the same time. And not just Boston, but throughout America. The way that the fans were welcomed by Americans in big cities and small towns was I thought it was wonderful. If you want to know America, don't read the headlines, drive across the country.

[B]

I love those two takeaways and they generate two thoughts for me. Number one, starting with your last one, I'd love to know the last time that beer supply was a challenge in Boston. Someone out there needs to look that up for us. But it's been a long time. And back on your first one, you know, as we're talking about basically grass supply chain, who would have thunk that we actually enjoyed because I found it very interesting like you to essentially watch grass grow and be supply supply to stadiums around the States. Huh?

[D]

Right.

[C]

Yeah. I think the NFL players are not going to demand grass.

[B]

I think you're right. I think you're right. But folks, there's a lot more. We're going to touch on David's regular observations, but I really enjoyed his regular World cup observations. We're going to drop a link to his LinkedIn account so you'll be able to follow and or connect with David later in the show. A couple quick comments here. Let's see here. Brett Marshall, the one only doing great things. Logi sim ecosystem says two great men together tonight for a not to miss session. And Brett, you are too kind. You and Helmut blushing a bit, huh?

[C]

It's late in Singapore

[B]

and let's see here. Rum honey. Hope I'm saying that right. Great to meet you here today as well and be one of the team's shout outs. Gotcha. Well Ram honey, I hope I'm saying Your first name. Right. Let us know what part of the beautiful world you are tuned in from and we look forward to your perspective and Brett's helmuts the Allens on the topics we're talking about here today. All right, so David, we got a lot more to get to here today for Shannon joins us. I wanted to do number two folks. I just touched on this. David Drops all kinds of thought provoking analysis, observations and a whole Bunch more on LinkedIn. This is one of his recent posts I took from his, his LinkedIn feed and you can see a bunch of con. Actually 9 comments. David, I'm not sure what you were doing that day because that's about a hundred below the average of the reaction you get to your posts. So, so maybe that was an off day. Kidding aside, David, we want to ask because I've met a bunch of great folks in the re in the conversations that your LinkedIn posts create and I'm curious and this is not a fair question because I bet there's way too many answers, but what's been one of your favorite responses or pieces of feedback related to these almost daily shares of yours?

[C]

I'll maybe be a little, little general here, but I love it when, because I write about a lot of different topics and to be clear, I'm not an expert in all of them and I'm much more, I'm more of a generalist. So I love it when somebody who knows way more about that topic than I do chimes in with, oh hey, how about this? And a comment and sometimes they correct to me and that's fine, that's good, that's important. It's like people like Jason Miller and Lars Jensen, Tom Rafty, who really sort of go deeper in a single topic and they can add so much to something that got 3,000 characters to try and get a, a message across. So I, I love that when the

[B]

experts weigh in, I'm with you, David. I am with you and you know, I'm going try not to talk out of both sides of my mouth here. I, I love the power of being a generalist because I kind of share that I'm very kindred spirits with you there and you know, something like global supply chain. I think the industry is served well by the power of generalists that are out there. However, to your point, it's also important to have folks that can deep dive and you dive in a particular item or theme or challenge or sector. And I think the industry is also served with the holistic balance of having both of those Traits as we're talking in generalities, I guess. But Dave, would you agree with that?

[C]

Yeah, you need both. You need both because I think it's like the T shirt, you got to have the horizontal and the vertical and it applies to so many things in life. It's obvious why we need experts, but I think the generalists, we tend, because we're looking at so many different topics, we tend to be good at connecting dots across themes that either need connecting or you know, maybe it's not obvious that there's a connection there and it's, it's fun to explore those things.

[B]

David, I'm with you.

[C]

I'm.

[B]

I'm with you because you know, supply chain touches everything. And you know, blessed are those that are able to connect the dots and get the rest of the industry to, to see those new connections, including those folks that will then dive, dive deep into the connections and we have, we can unlock all sorts of eureka moments and innovations and more really quick. I tell you what, David, man, Eric says David is a goat. That's the greatest of all time, folks. That's what that acronym means. On postings related to supply chain risk and resiliency. Dave, you got, you've got quite a fan club, my friend. I didn't know this.

[C]

It's a, it's a very kind comment. I could, I could list pretty quickly at least 10 people who would be above me in any kind of supply chain resiliency intelligence rankings. So I than thank you, but.

[B]

Yeah, well, thank you for that, Eric. Look, great to have you here. Let us know what part of the world you are tuned in from. And by the way, Trisha dropped one of David's posts which we're going to get David and Shannon to a on in just a moment. And from that link you'll be able to follow or connect or react to other hosts that David has shared. So good stuff. All right, so one more thing before we bring on Shannon, we're gonna, we're gonna about to dive into three big stories with Shannon and David and then we're going to dive into a whole bunch of shipping observations from especially Shannon, but Shannon and David as well. But first we want to offer up some resources, folks. Now you know I love the practical resources we get from our friends over at easypost. Well, one of the latest is this ebook focused on the modern 3 PL carrier playbook. It's a practical guide for 3 PL operations leaders who need more carrier flexibility without more engineering complexity, friction and headaches. So check it out via the link we're placing in the chat and let us know what you think. I'm delighted to have David and our special guest here on the buzz today. I've enjoyed learning from Shannon Valencourt's perspective, really for years, ever since we sat down in Arizona, I bet back in 2018 or 2019, I think it was, you may know folks, that he founded Rate links back in 2002, where his team has been changing the game for shippers across industry ever since. And on another note, due to his supply chain and technology expertise, Shannon's been a member of of the Forbes Technology Council since long before it was cool, I think seven, eight years ago. He tells it like it is. And we need more of that in global business. Please join me and David in welcoming Shannon Valencourt, founder and president of Rate Links.

[C]

Hey.

[B]

Hey, Shannon. How are you doing?

[D]

I'm doing well. How are you doing? Are you cooling off from the heat?

[B]

I think so. And to let everybody in on that,

[C]

it's the Monday theme.

[B]

That's right. To that end, I'm just thankful that Shannon can hear us and see us and talk to us here. But on Friday, I ventured out, me and my son ventured out to Phoenix, Arizona. And I noticed as I broke bread with Shannon for breakfast on Friday morning, that prediction, the weather forecast for Phoenix on Friday was 116. Is that right, Shannon?

[D]

Yeah. Yeah, it was hot.

[B]

Oh my gosh. And folks don't buy all the way. Buy a little bit into the dry heat thing, but it is still very warm. All right, so really quick, I got a fun warm up question for y' all both. I want to connect. Eric is based on in Charlottesville, Virginia, beautiful part of the country. Eric, looking forward to your take on some of the topics here today. All right, so Shannon and David, we got a fun warm up question because today, July 27th, I might scare some folks with this combination, but it's National Scotch Day, it's National Chicken Finger Day, and it's National Creme Brulee Day. Sounds like a perfect lunch, huh? Dangerous lunch, maybe. So. So that begs the question, at least in my mind, if it isn't Scotch, chicken fingers and creme brulee, what is one of your favorite summertime meals when it is so dagum hot outside? And Shannon, I'm gonna go to you. What's one of your favorite go to cooler meals?

[D]

I would say it's probably sandwich. I would go with. I go a chicken salad sandwich. I'd like a salad, but right now a little afraid so I'm gonna go with just regular chicken salad sandwich would be yummy.

[B]

That, that sounds great. As long as there's no grapes in that chicken salad. I don't hate grapes, man. And I think it's a smart and prudent choice to go let us free right now. Be on the safe side. But David, same question. When it's hot outside, even as hot as Connecticut gets, I'm not sure how hot that is. What's your go to? Cool, cool lunch meal.

[C]

I'm going to start with gazpacho and I'm going to finish with sorbet.

[B]

Oh, man, that is a bit of a culinary masterpiece there, David. You got some culinary training in your background?

[C]

I don't, but I'm surrounded by them in my house, so which is. That's good for everyone.

[B]

Is good for everybody. All right, so chicken salad sandwich, gazpacho, little sorbet. I love it. And if it was up to me, I'd say chili, but I always get vetoed by Amanda with that choice during the summer. It happens. All right, so, folks, we got a lot to get into here today with David and Shannon. Shannon, great to have you back. And David, it's been way too long since you weren't. You were here with his last on the Buzz. So I'm going to dive in to our first story here on the Buzz, powered by our friends at Zebra Technologies. And folks, you know, I hate to do it, but we're going to talk about new tariffs. As various outlets, including Supply Chain Dive, have reported, the White House rolled out new tariffs on over 80 countries last week. The tariffs range from 10% to 12.5%. And the administration claims to be using legal authority that allows it to target forced labor. China, Mexico and the EU are all among the countries or entities impacted by the Section 301 tariff, which kicked in last Friday, I believe. Now, on one hand, I do love that forced labor is going to get a whole bunch more attention in this latest news cycle because that was kind of part of the, a big part of legal authority that the administration is leveraging. But on the other hand, and without seeing all the details, I'm not sure if this isn't being used solely as a basis to apply tariffs to trading partners, which of course, has been one of the our administration's favorite tools for sure. Shannon, either way, global supply chain, we got to deal with it, right? Your thoughts, my friend?

[D]

You know, this is, this is one of those tough subjects, I think, to talk about because it's not really, I don't feel like It's a trading policy. I think it's. I think it's too political. So it's like I tend to not talk too much about it because of that. And it changes, right? It's like as soon as you start getting it figured out, it's going to change. Just wait a few days. It's almost like the weather in the Midwest is how I feel like these days is how it's been. It's a challenge, though. I'm. I'm definitely very empathetic to all the folks out there that have to deal with it. You know, I think of all the years I've been doing this, I've never really had to be this aware of tariffs in my life. And I think that's kind of what everybody's feeling these days.

[B]

Shannon, that is a really big statement because you've been doing big things in industry for quite some time and. But it's so accurate. And David, this is just the reality we're in. And you know, we always put politics aside.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Trade policies happen to be inextricably say that.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Tied to whoever resides in the White House. Right. Oftentimes. But it is what it is for, for our hardworking supply chain pros out there. David, your reaction?

[C]

Yeah, two things, I think on the tariff side of things, it adds more complexity and more uncertainty. And those are bad things for trade. They're bad things for the economy. I think on the forced labor side, my concern here is, although as you say, it puts the topic in the spotlight, I think it puts it in the spotlight in the wrong way. This isn't how to solve or go at forced labor. It's an enormous problem. Numerous people and companies and organizations are doing fantastic work to root out what is a very, very, very big, very, very difficult problem. It's very difficult for companies to do what they need to do about this. And unfortunately, this takes us in the wrong direction as far as the right way of approaching forced labor is concerned.

[B]

Very well said, David. I appreciate both of Yalls perspectives. You know, as I shared when I opened up this can of worms, I am so tired of talking about tariffs. But it is a forced reality, you know, for, for our global supply chains right now. And it's been that for, for quite some time. But Ava, kind of to your point and kind of to my point, I want to take this opportunity to share one of my favorite nonprofits that is doing a lot of things that David mentioned. Because folks, you'd be surprised. The modern day slavery and forced labor and the numbers and just how massive of a travesty it is globally, including here in the states. Believe it or not, folks, I encourage you to check out the Slave Free alliance, which is part of, I think it's fair to say, the Hope for Justice ecosystem, which I'm big fans of. And you can learn more at all the cool things they're doing, wonderful things are doing, including being informed on this big topic@sleaseaway alliance.org on a much, much lighter note, very much, much lighter note, we got some summertime meal recommendations, Larry. My wife's yummy pasta salad and her homemade peach ice cream. Oh my gosh, I could eat three gallons of that ice cream. He squared says turkey club anyone with barbecue chops and a good 7030. I bet that 7030 is like tea to lemonade. Like Arnold Palmer. I bet is what he's saying there with either banana pudding or Watergate salad. You know, never had Watergate salad and it makes me think about some of the things that may be included in a Watergate salad. But I'm not going to go in there either. Scared we'll have to get the recipe from you, my friend. And back more on topic. Larry says tariffs and supply chain issues have led to our family finding other ways they get what we need. And I bet he's not alone. I bet. I bet a lot of us are in that same boat, my friend. Thankfully, it's probably speaking for Shannon and David here. Thankfully we're moving on from tariffs. And I want to look at some new consumer data from our friends at Retail Brew because check this out folks. According to data From Bain and Company, unit sales for US grocery has dropped year over year for five straight months, February 2026 through June 2026. That's the latest data here that was reported. Now they identify several factors. Cuts in government benefit programs, increased gas prices and GLP1 usage, which is interesting, that continued growing impact across so many different areas. Bain's internal polling, you know Baines want to put this data. Data together shows that 80% of U.S. consumers say they are aiming to spend less each month overall with 28% say they're targeting grocery budgets specifically. As a result, some retailers and manufacturers are finding ways to reduce prices. That's kind of the knee jerk reaction. However, Kurt Grishell, hope I'm saying his last name right. He's head of Ban Company's America's Retail Practice and he's who led the report that delivered his data. Kurt says the fix isn't just about lowering prices. He says retailers in Particular must offer, quote, a value story that shoppers believe in and come back for in quote. Steven Spielberg will be happy with that. But a really quick a Monday morning analysis, deep dive in the Luton household shows that grocery spending is off the charts and we're conducting hearings later this week. So Shannon, I want to get your take on what I find to be this interesting data from the grocery aisle. Your thoughts?

[D]

Yeah, when I read that it was funny. I was talking with my wife about it and I brought up the GLP1 stuff. If you are on a GLP1, what you're supposed to do is eat more protein and you should be getting, you know, more food at the grocery store and eating that way. So it is interesting that it's down. I think it's more on the, the price of gas and of course the, the food stamps and all that. Right. I know that's definitely an issue here with they've lost some funding on that side. And what's interesting is I think some of that funding came from I think cigarettes and now that people are vaping, they've lost tons of funding. It's like, you know, the syntax is, it's like have to become more modern with the current sins, I guess is what they have to do. Right. In order to maintain funding. So but I wouldn't blame the GLP one necessarily because I think you should be eating, you should be going and getting more food at the store.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And making more stuff at home instead of eating out. So that was an interesting one.

[B]

It is and, and kind of somewhat related to your comments. I mean for these numbers to overcome even inflationary forces is really interesting. David, what comes to your mind?

[C]

I'll start by admitting I haven't read the report. So my, that's my defense if I say anything that's nonsensical. The headline says unit sales. And I think that's important because we're not talking about how much people are spending. We're talking, I think is what it says is that, you know, are they buying, you know, literally volume wise, more or less. So I, maybe it's GLP1. I mean price must be having an impact. And maybe the optimist in me thinks maybe people are being more thoughtful about how much they buy in terms of how much food gets wasted because a lot gets wasted in the supply chain, but also an enormous amount gets wasted at home. So if people are really feeling the pressure on their pocketbooks, maybe they're wasting less food at home. That's my hope. But it's, it's got to have something to do with the economy.

[B]

Excellent comments. A great call out there. And you know, David and Shannon one, when I was reading the story, it reminded me of and I might get some of this wrong, folks, but we reported on this a week or two ago on supply chain Dai where I think it was General Mills is transforming their supply chain ecosystem to better deal with higher volume of some of its cereals versus a lower volume that they, you know, that their system has been built with, I think for decades, if I recall that story correctly. So interesting mixed signals. Shannon and David, there's always mixed signals. We never get everything doesn't hardly ever align all on the same side of the table, right?

[D]

Yeah. I mean this, the, the numbers can lie sometimes if you interpret them wrong. And that's why, you know, like David said, is it unit sales or is it cost? Because yeah, for us, what we look at, Scott, you know what you're, you probably looked at is cost, right? And it's like so because of that cost, maybe your unit is down. And like David said, it's probably because you're, you're going to make a meal last longer, keep more leftovers, finish the last very piece rather than go back and, and just buy three of everything like you used to.

[C]

I'll add from a data standpoint that generally speaking in consumer analytics the dollar value is recorded, measured pretty well what's in the basket. That's much, much more difficult. So if I had time, I'd dig into where that data came from because, you know, but hopefully it's apples to apples but it's grocery pun. You're welcome.

[D]

I missed it.

[B]

I missed, I missed it on the first go round. He got me on the second go round. Thank you, David. And folks, we're dropping a link. You can go dive into the data. I really appreciate Shannon and David's perspective here because there's lots of ways you can even look. I think as Shannon alluded to the same number. Folks, go check it out. And hey, we look forward to, I think in September we're featuring a terrific supply chain leader from Bain. Maybe we'll touch on this story.

[C]

We'll see.

[B]

All right, let's see here. Brett Marshall is commenting back. I think more on the tariff conversation. Brett says, hey, putting tremendous pressure onto procurement and how critical a strategic procurement perspective is but with strong cross functional collaboration. That's right, Brett, man, cross functionality that might be the skill set of 2026. I don't know. And then LK going back to this grocery story Here. Most of our produce, he says, comes from our garden. I am so jealous of this. Okay, Shannon and David, I have tried about 17 different ways, mainly due to our outrageous grocery spending, to try to grow my own vegetables in the backyard. Shannon, are you a good gardener? Because I failed miserably.

[D]

I. I live in the desert, so.

[B]

Okay. And Dave, that brings me to David's side project. Before we get this next news story. David, you've got a really big garden project right now, so you must be a two green thumbs, huh?

[C]

No, my. My wife is the grower. She's the green thumb. She has green thumbs for all of us. She has a floristry business. She knows her grow stuff. I love building stuff. So she comes up with a diagram of something to grow things in and walls and fences and things. And I'm happy to. Normally happy to. To build them. This weekend was a little different, but I'll recover.

[B]

You will. And we're gonna get pictures of this project that's probably the size of the TSMC foundry that I drove past. I think it was i17. It's a massive project David's got going up in his neck of the woods. Stay tuned for the full story at 11, folks. All right, so next story is. I want to touch on this interesting article that David really brought to the forefront in one of his LinkedIn updates. He shared a great article from our friend Dr. Rodney Thomas and Alex Solace in Supply Chain Management Review. They wrote how the challenge to increasing supply chain resilience for organizations. It's not a data problem, it's more of a judgment problem. We're dropping a link to the full article because it really deserves a full read here, but I'm going to share four key takeaways from what they place up the top four key executive takeaways. All right, so David and Shannon, bear with me one minute here because I'm a quote this whole. All four of them here. So I quote here. Supply chain resilience is increasingly a leadership challenge, not a technology challenge. While AI digital twins, visibility platforms and control towers provide better data, competitive advantage comes from leaders who can interpret uncertainty, prioritize risks, and make sound decisions. Two, organizations should operationalize risk rather than simply document it. Companies that embed risk considerations into sourcing procurement, inventory and capacity planning build greater resilience than those treating risk management as a standalone compliance exercise. Three, structural flexibility matters as much as digital visibility. Strong supplier relationships, diversified sourcing, excess capacity, and network optionality cannot be created during a disruption. They must be developed long before a Crisis occurs and finally the next generation of supply chain leaders will be defined by judgment. As AI automates analysis, organizations should prioritize cross functional development, systems thinking, problem framing and decision making skills over narrow functional specialization. End quote. Man, that's a whole podcast series on those four things. David, since you know, you were the first that I caught my eye of summarizing this and reacting to it on LinkedIn. Give us your thoughts on this, this great article.

[C]

It is a great article as well. It's well written, it's well argued, it's clear, it's concise. I recommend it to anyone, even those who don't have their primary role as resilience, their organization. So I think two, two things. One, that, that last point about the supply chain leader of the future, I, I think that is applicable to almost any career and, and any function in any industry. So I think, I think that's a really important point. The, the other thing I'd say is that almost all the points you made ultimately come back to action. And a, a core theme that goes throughout the article is the difference between observing risk and actually doing something about it. Your organization does not become more resilient until you actually do something, until you take action. And that might be, might be before a disruptive event, it might be after a disruptive event. Most of the time what we see is action being taken after the event and maybe done well. It may be done badly, but like the sort of iceberg metaphor, anyone who's doing it well, most of what they're doing was done before the event hit and it was enabled by visibility. It is judgment that is driving it and driving the action.

[B]

David, excellent astute analysis and it is a great read. We've dropped a link to the full article right there in the chat. And Shannon, I'll get your take. You know, supply chain resilience can probably mean a bunch of different things to a bunch of different folks, but I like how they scoped out kind of a core challenge amongst these really four core challenges, I guess I'll call it. How would you react, Shannon?

[D]

Well, I think it's always, you know, everyone talks about judgment and I feel like, you know, judgment is more about anticipation. I think the people have good judgment can anticipate better than most. And I think that's just understanding the material is how I look at it. The more experience you have in something or the more information you can get your hands on, the more you can anticipate what might happen, which is then going to drive your judgment call. Because all the judgment is. Is just a. It's a decision. I find it interesting that we call it judgment when that's typically like an opinion. It's more subjective when this is kind of not subjective. It's more objective based on some facts. That's why I think the more facts that you can get in front of somebody and the more patterns that you can see, that's where you can anticipate better what could happen, and then that's how you can handle risk. You know, as. As an engineer, you're always taught to think about the failure. You don't think about the good stuff. You always think about, you know, what could cause this to fail, and that's the anticipation that you have. So the. I guess the more creative you can be there, the better you can handle the risk and plan for it.

[B]

Interesting take, Shannon. Really interesting take. I wish, David. I wish I could better communicate and know what engineers knew, but they never let me in those highfalutin engineering circles when I was in college. David, did they let you in?

[C]

They didn't, No. I actually studied chemistry at university, and I'm not sure I was. I was let into that either.

[B]

Really. Man, we got. Well, I knew Shannon is a brilliant engineering mind. I didn't know, David, that chemistry was your formal background, that is. Learn something new here today, my friend. And both y' all probably are much better at math than I am. I figured that going in, though. All right, Brett says, judgment or vision? That is an interesting question. And notice he said vision, not visibility, which, of course is all the, you know, has been forever. Seems like all the rage. Brett, that's a great question, and I'll turn it around and ask you. What do you think, Brett, judgment or vision? Give us your take on how we can optimize our supply chain resilience. All right, Shannon and David, I gotta. I gotta leave the discussion there because we got a lot more I want to dive into with Shannon. But first, I want to offer up another resource. For folks out there, every single second counts. As you all know, when you're running a high throughput distribution center these days, operational headaches can cost you big time. From false jams to package recirculation to especially misnose SLAs. Now that's just name a few. Our friends at Zebra Technologies are working hard to change the game with powerfully simple machine vision, of course. Powered by AI, Zebra makes machine vision easier to access, simpler to deploy, and infinitely scalable, whether it's streamlining dock door operations or speeding up park Bench scanning or detecting conveyor jams, Zebra takes you from pilot to production with total confidence. Fix your toughest warehouse challenges today, not tomorrow. Today. Zebra technologies means vision made. Easy, powerfully simple, and always scalable. Learn more. Be the link that Trisha just dropped in the chat. David and Shannon, looking forward to this next section here. I want to dive in deeper to some particular topics with our friend Shannon Valencourt. And, and by the way, I should have called this out earlier. I appreciate Shannon and David's sense of humor as we're, you know, sometimes we gotta laugh to keep from crying as we tackle all sorts of issues in global business. And to that end, Shannon, you and the Rate Links team put out this meme a few weeks back that I think a lot of shippers out there is gonna be able to relate to. I know I could back in the days, forever ago when I was shipping stuff. I'm gonna read these off for folks that may be listening. So I'm gonna start with the first in the up left hand corner. Shippers are now using freight vibes for eta. They just feel when shipments are getting close. Second one. Hey, we got a new strategy. Ship parcel only because Steve likes that button. I think we've all had Steve's in our organizations before. Number three, the perfect strategy to save on shipping. Pretend rate shopping doesn't exist. And number four, and this was, as I shared with David and Shannon, I was watching Goodfellas come back from Arizona over the weekend. Shipment enters witness protection. No tracking, new identity. And their shipment's living somewhere in Montana along with. Was it Harry Hamlin? Was that the guy's name from Goodfellas? Whatever. So, Shannon, when you think of those four memes, which one is your favorite and why? And I'm gonna pop these back up again.

[D]

I'm gonna go with the witness protection. So over the last two weeks, I've been. I've been working at home, you know, since I had back surgery. So I've been stuck at home working. And I was. I had hopped on a call, and my wife storms into my office and is, like, yelling at me practically about a package that said it was delivered, but it wasn't delivered at our house. Like, there's something I can do about it. And she's like, what do I do? And this was the second time in two weeks that she had something go missing. And another one said it was supposed to be delivered between, like, Monday and Thursday. And she even called the carrier and they're like, well, until, you know, it might show up. Thursday, but, you know, if it doesn't let us know. And then I guess there was. She looked back on it on Friday and. And it said that they were doing an investigation. And she's like, what does that mean? I'm like, nothing. It means nothing. I said, it's gone. I don't know what to tell you. That thing is never coming back. And yet, sure enough, she. She had a reshipped, so.

[B]

So number four is your favorite one. Let me pop these back up.

[D]

That's the worst thing ever, when it just disappears because you never hear from it again.

[B]

Yeah, it's so true. And two quick points, Dave, before I come get your favorite one. Number one, we were talking with Lloyd Boyer, and she was sharing data that, you know, you can be, even if you're not, incredibly fast, which, of course, we all value in this modern era. As long as consumers know where their stuff is, you're going to be not always okay, but you're going to be much better off. So don't let your parcels enter wetness production programs. And number two, I got three texts when I said this. Harry Hamlin, folks. I misspoke. It's Henry Hill is what Goodfellas is all about. I think Harry Hamlin was on LA Law or something. So, anyway, David, back to the memes. Shipping memes. Which one's your favorite and why?

[C]

I was going to go for fall, but Shannon's taken that. Our new house has three addresses. They're all correct. And you can imagine where that is, is ending up. So I'm going to go. I'm going to go for number two. And I think of memes like, I think of the Office. It's the TV show. It's like. It's ridiculous, but you can sort of relate to stuff that's going on. I was in a discussion with a CPG company the other day, and we're talking about data analytics. And very soon. I know. I said, so what is the. What is the sort of outcome you're looking for? And they said, well, actually, this is for an internal use, because whenever something is maybe going to be late, the account team for that particular retailer is just like, yeah, let's expedite it. Let's go. And, you know, we, as the logistics group, need data to say, what are you doing? This is, you know, this is expensive. This is crazy. And of course, the account, the account manager always wins because it's like, what, you want to upset company B? It's like, all right, yeah, go on, expedite it. So there's a lot of that. It costs a lot of money.

[B]

Ton of that. A lot of Steve's out there, as the meme kind of points out. Well said there and really quick for I continue. We're going to talk about bad data in just a second. Eric says, hey, I like Shannon's point earlier about patterns. Recognizing patterns, sharing these patterns with others in your organization and then acting to anticipate these patterns and what to do about these makes a ton of sense. Eric, I'm with you, but I'm not new to Shannon. All the sense Shannon makes when he joins us goes back to his engineering circles. I wasn't let in back as a college student. Shannon, you said for years, because I've quoted you for years, that add data, not all the times bad software, but bad data is often the real problem. Although as we were talking in the green room earlier, you know, it certainly can be both and that happens regularly. But has the explosion of AI made data quality even more important than say it was, you know, five years or so ago?

[D]

Shannon, I don't think it's any more important than it's ever been. I just think that because of AI, it's making it faster for you to see how important it is. You know, I mean my whole, as long as I can remember it's always been about what's the value of knowing? And the speed to getting the answer has always been, I guess, the holy grail. And that's where I look at AI is as only being some a tool that now shows you how quickly maybe you have bad data. I mean it's no different than when you ask your best person. It's like take your best person in your organization around any particular topic and ask them a bad question, guarantee you're going to get a bad answer from that person. That's no different than I think feeding incomplete or bad data into AI because that's all that AI becomes pretty quickly. You know, to me AI just remembers everything that you feed it. So if you feed it gaps and you feed it inconsistencies, that's how it's going to respond. It's no different than a person. So that's why I, I've had people get, get just downright angry with me over talking about AI and they're like our data's we can't do AI. Our data is bad going to make bad decisions. And like, well, you're already making them today. You're using the same data to make your decisions, aren't you? And they're just like no, it's different,

[B]

it's like, no, it isn't keeping it real. I told y' all folks. Shannon V. Keeps it real. David, your thoughts when it comes to data quality here in 2026 and beyond?

[C]

Yeah, I, no, I, I agree with Shannon. I One lens to look at that through is the companies that are being successful with, with AI in, in their enterprises and it's not that they have better or different AI or know more about AI than the other companies, but it's that they have for years, in some cases decades, been getting their arms around their data, setting up the processes correctly, understanding the why, getting the right people in the right seats. And those are all the things that determinants of success with AI. I think one thing that may be different is in the world of agentic AI, where we're looking to automate things in a, in a deeper sense where there is there, there is context to be understood to the extent that you want to fully automate something and maybe the answer is you shouldn't you just, you know, take it 90% of the way and you know, have a human in the loop or on the loop. That's I think where people are rightly concerned about data quality. And the answer isn't fix your data quality long term it is. But today the answer is think about what you can and can't automate and if you can write like having, you don't need a dark warehouse to optimize your warehouse. What percentage is appropriate to be automating? Where does the machine stop and the human start? So I think there's a better conversation.

[B]

David, I wish we had a chance to have a full couple hour conversation around Shannon and your response to the last question. But your response gives me a great segue because you mentioned decision making. What do we automate, what we don't? And Shannon want to ask you because you're arguably in a very unique position to address this. When it comes to day to day decision making, especially in shipping logistics, what do you view as AI the best at owning and what is still best left in human hands? Shannon?

[D]

I think AI is best at taking out all the time, the time wasting that happens. I still think a lot of decisions have to be left up to the human. I mean most of the decisions that AI makes very well are the routine decisions where there's not a lot of context required, but like, you know, finding out and maybe pointing you in the right direction. That's kind of how I, I think of the best use of AI. Point me in the right direction get me there faster. So that way I can now spend the time that I used to spend trying to find all this stuff to then come up with an answer. And then maybe that's where AI could know, if possible, run some scenarios for you. But I don't know, it's, you know, we're, we still watch too many movies, I think, and that's where we're, we're thinking that that's how it's going to be. And we're a long, long ways away from that. Just because of the computing power that's required to actually do that, you know? You know, it's the understanding part that's a challenge. You know, computers read things character by character, whereas for us, we fill in a lot of blanks for the good and the bad.

[B]

Right? That's right.

[D]

I've read before they say, you know, you know, it's great that you've got people in there, but you also got to remember that you got people in there because, you know, we do get tired and we do get hungry.

[B]

Right?

[D]

And that's what you got to worry about.

[B]

Let me write that down really quick. So I'm gonna steal that from you people in there.

[D]

All right?

[B]

Shit. And that's. It's so true though. It's so true. It's a double edged sword. And folks, y' all know if you're watching or listen, I'm the biggest proponent. I love the human element, the beautiful human element that makes global supply chain happen. But that is such a great call out. Shannon, David, really quick as we come down to Home stretch, respond to that same question I just posed as Shannon. What's better automated or in the hands of AI? And what's better in human hands?

[C]

Yeah, I think supply chain risk management's a good example of this, where there's an enormous amount of data, there's an enormous amount of complexity. And to Shannon's point, to the extent you can boil that down to insights that a human can then look at and make much more nuanced decisions around, that's a good use of AI to say, let's have humans focus their time on something that a computer really cannot do. And it's important. I mean, you can look at the complexity of the decision, but you should also look at the importance and the permanence of the decision. If I'm deciding to change suppliers or the company of my supplier, then that's clearly something that humans have got to be involved in and you can sort of work all the way back from that even at the shipment level, you have an exception. Is it a cargo theft? Isn't it? The computer can only take it so far. And that sort of triage and ultimately calling law enforcement. You don't want a computer doing that. And anything where there's a human on the other, other side of the equation, that's where other humans should be involved. And please tell my bank that.

[B]

You know what? We, we do need a whole podcast series on the state of banking technology, but I'll save that. We got Theo Lao joining us soon, and we've already had a chuckle about that. Hey, really quick and you know, I like your thoughts there, David. Around what a gravity scale, right. For the, for the graveness of a, of a. Typical. Of a. Of a challenge or topic or action. That's a great call out. All right, so I want to pose a couple quick questions to Shannon here related to Rate Links. Now, Shannon, y' all work with hundred, if not thousands of shippers around the world. We've talked about a lot of those going back for several years now. But another unfair question for you. What's one of your favorite recent anecdotes related to those special relationships you have out across industry?

[D]

Well, the other week it was funny. We went, went live with a customer, and I still get the biggest kick out of it. I guess whatever, whatever they did through our system used to be a lot harder to do. And as soon as he did it, he's like, oh, my God, that was, that was effing easy. And he didn't shortcut the F part. And I was just like, wow, I did not expect I was going to hear that. And it's like we hear a lot of those little comments. And I think that's where you know, putting in, that's what technology is supposed to do, I think, is make things easier for the person to do. And again, it's the mundane. Get rid of the mundane stuff. Don't make it hard, make it simple, make it easy. And that's where I get. That's the, the comments that I hear a lot. And then, you know, again, making it very easy for them to know what they should be looking at. I think that's also what the technology should be doing. Yep.

[B]

Well said. And I'll tell you, you're echoing what I hear from my three kids all the time, David. That is. Our vernacular is changing fast and I can't keep up. David, would you agree with that?

[C]

Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, you gotta, you know, I'm learning something new every day. And I hope That'll always be the case.

[B]

Me too. Even if I'm using the wrong adjectives or nouns or adverbs or whatever, all those things are.

[D]

All right.

[B]

And then a follow up question. Shannon, I enjoyed. It's been a couple years. I think I went in 2024 insight conference, y' all host each year and you got the latest one, biggest and best one coming up October 13th and 14th right there in by that time will be cooler. Scottsdale, Arizona hopefully. Man, we're still that hot in October. We're doing something wrong, but really quick. Shannon, what's one thing you're looking forward to@insight 2026?

[D]

I always enjoy the conversations. Talking with customers and just hearing, hearing about their, their challenges that they're trying to work on and seeing how we can help. But that's always the fun part for me is the conversations.

[B]

Yeah, I'm with you. And you know, David, that kind of echoes. I always see you in action. Last time, let's see, we were at Manifest and then I think Gartner symposium together. And every time I passed by you, Dave, and that's a lot because I was doing lots of loops. You were engaged in what must have been a deep conversation with different folks. You're taking all your eureka moments down, David. The power of those conversations, kind of what Shannon's talking about. I mean, that's my favorite part as well at any of these in person events because for as much as I learn in the formal sit downs, interviews and whatnot, it's those unplanned sidebar conversations that you get to the real nitty gritty. Would you agree?

[C]

I would 100%. And I think it's a symptom of the presentations. It's very, very difficult to put on a presentation that is at the right level for everyone in the room. It's impossible. Whereas in a conversation you can get right to the thing that is most important to that other person from which you will both learn something. Yeah, it's fun meeting people and it's great to do things in person. But I think in terms of information exchange, those are two very different things and one is clearly more valuable than the other.

[B]

Well said. Well said, folks. If you want to learn more about in particular rate links insight 2026 go to Ratelinks.com and Trisha's also dropped, I believe, the very specific link that will take you to that event. So check that out and be a part of those valuable conversations. And in a broader sense, you know, speaking of Manifest, we're going to be back there in man at Manifest in Vegas in 2027. That's going to be here before we know it. So I'm sure David will as well. We're looking forward to, let's see, promat Manifest Gartner symposium next year and many, many others. And we look forward to seeing all y' all out there at those let's see here as we start to wrap here today. Before I offer a few final resources. Hey Jorg, hope you had a great time here on the Buzz today. I would love especially I think it was your first time. I would love to get your key takeaways from today's conversation with David and Shannon. I had a whole 17 pages of notes for sure and Brett answered, answered the call. Brett says judgment analysis based is here and now. Vision is how to be future ready, tech systems, process and most importantly, people very eloquent, very Shakespearean. Brett Marshall, including late at night as David called out earlier is right. All right, before we wrap, make sure folks know how to connect with David and Shannon. I want to point people to our award winning resource hub. You're going to find great resources, growing resources like this white paper from our friends at Psycho Labs. We are investing a ton in our resource hub library. I think written content is back, maybe it never left but sometimes I just, I don't, don't want to watch it. I don't want to listen to it. I just want to read it in my own time when I've got time. I don't know if that resonates with either of y', all, but folks, go check out our resource hub and you'll enjoy a growing library there. Shannon, how can folks connect with you and the Rate Links team?

[D]

I'd say probably just go to reach out on LinkedIn or go to our website rightlynx.com and click on Contact us there. Be more than happy to have any conversations with folks out there, see how we can help them.

[B]

Outstanding. And Trisha's dropped a link to that as well. It's just real easy. She's also dropped a link to Shannon's LinkedIn so you can follow and connect there as well. And they take him up on that. You'll enjoy those conversations with Shannon and David, I can assure you. And David. That begs a question, how can folks connect with you, my friend?

[C]

Yeah, I find me at a conference I go to a lot or LinkedIn is the easiest thing. I'm posting every day. So enjoy those interactions and it's good stuff, folks.

[B]

You know we're very scrutinizing when it comes to the wide growing world of LinkedIn. But you got to find really good sources of information and dialogue. And I promise you follow or connect with David and check out those daily, usually morning a.m. eastern time is when he drops it. You'll enjoy those. I can promise him. Okay, folks, I hate to park it there. Shannon Valencourt, president and founder at Rate Links. It was a pleasure to reconnect with you in person last week. Even better yet, great to have you back on the bus. Thanks for being here.

[D]

Thank you for having me. It was great seeing you and your son last Friday.

[B]

It's great breakfast, man, I tell you. And as you, as you observed, the pancakes or whatever they were at the restaurant had no chance. Ben destroyed this.

[D]

We're still trying to resupply here. And Scottsdale, she's. Good thing your son was only here for a morning. That was, I'll tell you, that was quite the event.

[B]

Ben is growing fast.

[D]

I'll tell you what, your fingers away from him.

[B]

And David Shillingford, great to have you back here on the buzz. I look forward to some future programming, but thanks for being here, my friend.

[C]

All right. Was a pleasure. Never a chore.

[B]

That's right. Well, that's a great way of putting. That's a T shirt ism that we can close on for sure. Big thanks to our friends at Zebra Technologies. Be sure to connect with [e-mail] of course. Big thanks to man and Trisha. Behind the scenes. I should call out. I was just kidding about the grocery data. I got a really mean nasty gram. Private nasty gram from Amanda earlier. Only kidding. Only kidding, folks. But kidding aside. Hey everyone out there across our SCN global fam, hopefully you had a enjoyed today's episode as much as I have. I'll tell you, Shannon and David brought a lot of actionable perspective. And that leads me to your homework today. Take one thing from Shannon or David and put it into practice. Do something with it, right? Share it with your team, your organization. Deeds not words, folks. And with that said, on behalf of the whole supply Chain now team Scott Luden challenge you do good. Get forward. Be the change that's needed. And we'll see you next time right back here on supply chain Now. Thanks everybody.

[A]

Join the supply chain now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supply chain now.com subscribe to Supply Chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to supply Chain Now. Wherever you get your podcasts.