1 Journalist vs 20 Trump Supporters (ft Glenn Greenwald) | Surrounded

Summary

Surrounded: Episode 1 — "Journalist vs 20 Trump Supporters (ft. Glenn Greenwald)"

Podcast: Surrounded by Jubilee Media
Date: May 24, 2026
Host: John Regalato
Featured Guest: Glenn Greenwald (Independent Journalist)

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Episode Overview

The debut episode of Surrounded introduces the show's unique format: one guest—in this case, Pulitzer Prize-winner Glenn Greenwald—debates a rotating panel of 20 Trump supporters on a series of provocative claims. The conversation is unfiltered and fast-paced, exploring U.S. foreign policy, the Israel lobby, corruption, and whether bombing Iran serves the American public. The episode is charged with cross-examination, occasional agreement, and pointed challenges—showcasing the complexities and divides within modern American political discourse.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Trump a War-making or Peacemaking President?

Claim: President Trump is more of a war-making president than a peacemaking president.
Timestamps: [01:11]–[07:40], [13:20]–[19:22]

• Greenwald’s Argument:

  • Trump restarted and escalated U.S. military action in Yemen, contrary to campaign promises ([02:09]).
  • “It's like saying, I stabbed myself in the stomach, but then I brought myself to the ER... President Trump started the war in Yemen... Yes, congratulations, he ended his own war.” ([03:16])
  • Initiated or escalated conflicts with Iran and Venezuela.
  • "He inherited a presidency where we are not at war with Iran, we are now at war with Iran." ([04:04])
  • Draws parallels to Orwell’s "War is peace" as supporters justify intervention as prevention ([05:06]).

• Trump Supporters’ Responses:

  • Credit Trump with the Abraham Accords and supposed prevention of greater regional wars ([05:51], [13:39]).
  • Cite Trump’s claimed nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize by Pakistan and Cambodia ([05:52]).
  • Justify Yemen and Iran military actions as necessary deterrence or limited “operations,” not wars ([13:21], [18:00]).
  • “The first Trump administration was a peaceful administration. There was no new wars that were started.” ([13:21])

Notable Quote:

Glenn Greenwald: “You can't prevent conflicts by starting conflicts. Starting conflicts is starting conflicts.” ([05:32])

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2. Is Trump Subservient to the Israel Lobby?

Claim: President Trump is subservient to the Israel lobby.
Timestamps: [19:41]–[40:04]

• Greenwald’s Argument:

  • Defines “subservient” as consistently prioritizing Israel's interests, sometimes over U.S. interests ([20:03]).
  • Details Trump’s relationships with pro-Israel donors (e.g., Sheldon and Miriam Adelson, $300 million in donations), recounting Trump’s own comments ([21:28]).
  • Cites expanded U.S. support to Israel—military, diplomatic, and economic; Trump adopts Israeli priorities, e.g., push for regime change in Iran ([22:55]–[25:15]).
  • Highlights U.S. military deployment, unprecedented funding, and university speech codes favoring Israel ([24:44], [29:38]).
  • “We do more for the Israeli lobby than any other country. … We deploy our military for Israel. We don’t do that for Qatar.” ([29:38])
  • U.S. policy toward Palestinian statehood has been subverted by lobby pressure ([32:44]).

• Supporters’ Counterpoints:

  • “Subservient” is a strong word; influence isn’t equivalent to allegiance ([20:11], [32:14]).
  • U.S. does more for other lobbies (Qatar, pharma, real estate, universities), and Israel is a necessary ally ([28:47]–[30:08]).
  • Many Jews are anti-Israel; support for Israel is a matter of American voters “voting with their dollars” ([36:03]–[38:05]).
  • AIPAC doesn’t always win, U.S. lobbying is legal/institutionalized, and Jewish Americans have diverse interests ([39:43]).

Notable Quotes:

Glenn Greenwald: “President Trump makes decisions in the interest of the Israeli people and the Israeli government over and above the American people. And it’s the only country for which that’s true. That is subservience.” ([22:55])
Pro-Israel Supporter: “We pay for those wars because it’s to our interests that there is stability in the Middle East. Because these are proxies to America as well.” ([30:59])

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3. Corruption: Is the Trump Administration More Corrupt than Biden’s?

Claim: The Trump administration has been considerably more corrupt than the Biden administration.
Timestamps: [40:08]–[57:58]

• Greenwald’s Argument:

  • Cites Jared Kushner’s $2 billion Saudi investment, the Trump-affiliated crypto company (World Liberty Financial) and its foreign ownership, Trump’s sons’ business deals ([41:11], [45:05], [51:31]).
  • “Jared Kushner … the number one investor were the Saudis, who invested $2 billion in Jared Kushner’s fund, both as a reward for a job well done … and also for making sure that the Saudis interests are protected. It’s basically a bribe directly to the Trump family.” ([41:11])
  • Draws direct comparison to the Hunter Biden/Burisma affair and argues Trump family profits are on a much grander scale than Biden’s ([43:33], [45:31]).
  • Asserts the Constitutional ban on accepting foreign “gifts” is violated in spirit, if not technically, by Trump’s business ventures while in office ([53:39]).
  • “Corruption is when you do things that look and have the potential to be untoward because the way you’re monetizing and exploiting your political power…” ([55:10])

• Supporters’ Defenses/Counterpoints:

  • Argue Hunter Biden corruption is comparable, or worse, and cite COVID fraud, vaccine mandates, and broken border policy under Biden ([41:56], [48:53]).
  • Argue Trump’s net worth declined during his presidency; post-term wealth due to other factors ([56:04]).
  • Defend business activities as legal and question evidence or criminality ([51:30], [56:16]).

Notable Quotes:

Trump Supporter: “You’re just basically saying that Trump was better at being … more of a businessman than Joe Biden.”
Glenn Greenwald: “It’s like saying, oh, that guy stole a Milky Way, and that guy defrauded billions of dollars from old ladies. So this guy’s better than this one at being a crook.” ([44:43])

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4. Is Bombing Iran in the American People’s Interest?

Claim: Bombing Iran is not in the American people’s interests.
Timestamps: [58:00]–[76:39]

• Greenwald’s Critique:

  • Details civilian toll and humanitarian cost (“on the first day, we vaporized 170 Iranian schoolgirls”), arguing such actions contradict American values and don’t enhance security ([59:03]).
  • Stresses Iran has never attacked the U.S. homeland; terrorism against Americans by Iran/Shia entities is effectively zero ([65:22]).
  • Contrasts U.S. military action with diplomatic solutions and the effectiveness of the Iran nuclear deal before Trump canceled it ([73:37]).
  • Warns wars for regime change have unpredictable, destabilizing, and costly consequences (gas prices, global stability) ([69:50], [95:56]).
  • “A moral country only goes to war and blows up elementary schools if that country is actually attacking the United States, it’s supposed to be a war of last resort. That is not the case here. We’re blowing up their country, we’re killing their people. We’re threatening civilizational annihilation because Iran is not a threat to the United States.” ([69:50])

• Pro-Trump Arguments:

  • U.S. losses have been minimal compared to Iran’s; war is justified as a deterrent and in defense of allies ([58:15], [59:03]).
  • Argue U.S. strikes are highly discriminate, focused on IRGC, not civilians ([70:40]).
  • Justify extreme measures due to “cosmic war” and Iranian sponsorship of terrorism by proxies ([71:10]).
  • Link to regional benefits for U.S. and allies, argue diplomacy has failed ([71:42], [74:00]).
  • Some insist regime change is not officially the war aim, while others class it as desirable ([70:47], [59:59]).

Notable Quotes:

Trump Supporter: “I think it’s absolutely heroic to say again, we’ve had a thousand Americans die in the last 50 years because Iran, Iranian terrorists and proxies have killed them.” ([94:02])
Glenn Greenwald: “How do you know what the majority of 96 million Iranians want when it comes to whether we want them, they want us bombing their country?” ([92:01])

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5. Final Debate: Is Trump the Best President of the Century?

Timestamps: [82:38]–[96:25]

• Metrics for 'Best President' (Supporter):

  • America First, economic growth, and foreign policy ([82:50]–[83:09]).
  • Cites Trump’s focus on “quick” conflicts and general avoidance of prolonged war, quick actions in Yemen, Iran, Venezuela ([84:05], [84:33]).
  • Supports Trump’s COVID response over Biden’s ([86:22]).

• Greenwald’s Response:

  • Admits Trump’s first-term “America First” foreign-policy agenda interested him as a break from establishment consensus; sees first term as possibly best of the century ([88:44]).
  • Second term is “arguably the worst,” due to increased foreign entanglements, corruption, and broken promises ([88:44]).
  • Argues it’s a low bar compared to the competition (Bush, Obama, Biden).
  • Remains open to changing his mind if events improve, but deeply critical of unnecessary wars and transactional foreign policy ([89:40]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Glenn Greenwald:

  “So war is peace. Did you read 1984 by George Orwell?" ([05:06])

  "We deploy our military for Israel. We don't do that for Qatar... There's no other lobby that represents a foreign country that has even 1/100th of the impact that the Israel lobby has." ([20:44], [38:20])

  "Corruption doesn't get that much attention because people don't think that if they vote those people out, the other people will be less corrupt." ([97:18])

• Trump Supporters:

  "If the conflict in Iran doesn't end in the next six months, then I would consider that to be a failure." ([84:05])

  "I think it's absolutely heroic... we've had a thousand Americans die in the last 50 years because Iran, Iranian terrorists and proxies have killed them." ([94:02])

  "You're just basically saying that Trump was better at being ... a better businessman than Joe Biden." ([44:47])

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Notable Timestamps

• 01:11–07:40: Warmaking vs. peacemaking, Yemen/Iran intervention debate
• 19:41–40:04: Subservience to Israel lobby, influence debate
• 40:08–57:58: Corruption discussion—Kushner/Saudi billions, Trump coin, Biden family
• 58:00–76:39: Should U.S. bomb Iran, American interests, war aims, civilian tolls
• 82:38–96:25: Final head-to-head on Trump as best/worst president of the century

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Recurring Themes and Tone

• The debates are combative but occasionally reach points of mutual understanding.
• Many supporters concede individual facts (e.g., Trump’s business deals, war goals) but interpret them in a favorable light.
• Interviews often circle semantics (e.g., “subservient,” “war,” “corruption”), exposing key rifts in worldviews and priorities.
• Greenwald consistently challenges orthodoxies on both left and right, citing documented evidence, international law, and historical context.

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Conclusion

This jam-packed inaugural episode of Surrounded delivers exactly as promised—a blunt, challenging exchange between a lone contrarian and a formidable crowd. Whether on war, lobbying, or corruption, the conversation exposes stark ideological divides, highlights where agreement appears possible, and regularly circles back to questions of ethics, evidence, and America’s purpose in the world. For anyone puzzled by contemporary political tribalism and yearning for depth, this episode is a revealing—and sometimes uncomfortable—listen.

Transcript

[John Regalato]

Hey, listeners, just want to remind you we have episodes of the POD coming out every Sunday, so please consider subscribing

[Glenn Greenwald]

wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Regalato]

Thank you for your support.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We're in a major war, aren't we, in Iran?

[Matt]

I mean, sure, we're in a conflict, but I don't think this is where

[Glenn Greenwald]

you actually have a war. Is it a war? Have you ever thought about going and fighting in this war that you're cheering on?

[Young Male Supporter]

I mean, I've thought about joining the military before. I don't know about this war specifically.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

When your adversary races to arms and increases their offensive capabilities, it's going to create a security dilemma.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's a madman mentality. Iran lost any civilians.

[Trump Supporter]

Yeah, I'm sure that's how war works.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's how war works. Like on the first day we vaporized 170 young Iranian schoolgirls bombing an elementary school.

[John Regalato]

Is the Trump administration actually America First? Or has MAGA morphed into something Trump supporters no longer recognize? I'm John Regalato and from Jubilee Media, this is Surround It. Today we're diving into Trump's foreign policy record, the conflict with Iran, the United States relationship with Israel, and much more. I'm here in the center with our featured guest, independent journalist Glenn Greenwald. Welcome to the show.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Thank you for having me. Great to be here.

[John Regalato]

Are you ready to jump into these debates?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I am ready.

[John Regalato]

Debaters, are you ready? Let's get into it.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hi, I'm Glenn Greenwald. I'm an author and independent journalist. And today I am surrounded by 20 Trump supporters. My first surrounded claim is President Trump is more of a war making president than a peacemaking president.

[John Regalato]

If you would like to debate this claim, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hey, nice to meet you. Micah. Good to meet you.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Good to meet you, Glenn. So first I want to just ask what makes a peacemaking president?

[Glenn Greenwald]

A peacemaking president is somebody who in the first place avoids war for their own country, either solves and resolves wars that they inherit or prevents wars from breaking out that they would get their country involved with.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Okay, so you agree that prevention is a part of what makes a president a peacemaking president?

[Glenn Greenwald]

For sure.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Okay, so then what about Trump's foreign policy is not prevention?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Well, the first thing that he did in getting to Office basically within 30 days, was restarted a bombing campaign that President Biden had prosecuted throughout 2024 that President Trump during the campaign had heavily criticized. Yet soon as President Trump got into office, he not only restarted that bombing campaign, but escalated it that was the one in Yemen against the Houthis. It went for about five, six weeks or entailed hundreds of people.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Was that not necessary for like global trade to ensue? Was the Houthis not attacking multiple different ships?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, the Houthis were only attacking Israel at the time that President Trump did that. There was a peace deal that President Trump engineered that ended up being very temporary. And the Houthis said for as long as this peace deal is in place, we won't attack ships. Once the Israelis started violating it, not letting food, they said, we're only going to attack Israeli.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Here's a question for you, Glenn. Are we still in conflict? Conflict in Yemen?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No. President Trump ended his own war that he started.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Okay, so then by your definition, did we not prevent further conflict by having this conflict? And would we not free up the trade routes in Yemen from being attacked by the Houthis? It's free, is it not?

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's like saying, I stabbed myself in the stomach, but then I brought myself to the ER where I had a doctor fix me up. And that proves that I'm really interested in fitness and self care. President Trump started the war in Yemen. He escalated the war in Yemen. It was stopped at the Houthis.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Were they attacking people or not?

[Glenn Greenwald]

They were attacking a foreign country called Israel that is not part of the United States.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Okay, so does do these international trade routes not affect America?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, not when it's only Israel whose ships are being attacked. You can say the war is just. The question is, is President Trump making war or making peace? You can say, okay, he made war in Yemen, but I think the war is just. He's still a war making president. By definition, there was no war with

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

the result of the conflict. That it was a peacemaking military engagement. We have peace.

[Glenn Greenwald]

How did it end? How did it end?

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

How did it end?

[Glenn Greenwald]

It ended by the Houthi saying, we will not attack anybody except the Israelis as long as they're denying food and water entering into Gaza, and they continue to do so. It achieved nothing. All it did was have the United States deplete our missiles, our military force, our resources. It was a war that didn't exist, that Trump created. Yes, congratulations, he ended his own war. But that is an example of a war making president. That's just one example. There's obviously war in Iran as well. That he inherited a presidency where we are not at war with Iran, we are now at war with Iran. We've twice gone to war with Iran under President Trump. That's another word that he's made.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Do you not, do you not agree that Iran is a major threat and destabilizes the Middle east all the time?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I don't, but we'll get to whether the war is just the question now is does President Trump make more wars? Well, I seem to be acknowledging. I want to go back to what

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

you initially agreed to, though, is that part of what makes a peacemaking president isn't just, oh, we don't start any conflicts. It's actually engaging in conflicts to prevent further.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So war is peace. Have you, did you read 1984 by George Orwell?

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

No, I'm just.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, but I'm just asking.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

I'm literally quoting what you said earlier at the beginning.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, but George Orwell in 1984 described the most extreme kind of propaganda by war making tyrannies. And one of the things citizens get told is war is peace.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Did you not admit that part of what makes a peacemaking president is stepping in and preventing further conflicts?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes, but you can't prevent conflicts by starting conflicts. Starting conflicts is starting conflicts. Can you not use war?

[Trump Supporter]

Can you not stop.

[John Regalato]

We gotta pause here, Mike. We gotta pause here. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Thank you.

[Matt]

So in reference to Trump being a peacemaking president or a warmongering president, let's say, for example, let's start with the conflicts that he did indeed stop.

[Interviewer/Participant]

Right.

[Matt]

For example, Pakistan. India. Pakistan nominated Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize. They said that he specifically played a big role in preventing that conflict. Well, India disagreed, but Pakistan regardless said that he played a key role in preventing it. We had Thailand versus Cambodia also break out. Cambodia nominated Trump for the NOAA Peace Prize and also said that he prevented that conflict. I'd also say in reference to Venezuela, obviously no one thinks that Maduro was good there. The tyranny was crazy the way that he was leading the government, everyone agrees, but he was able to take Maduro out. And Desi Rodriguez, who's now the vice president, is very, you could say subordinate or servile. Right. 50 million barrels of oil, restricting Cuba, so on and so forth. And so I would disagree that he's a warmongering president.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay. The point is not he's a warmongering president, but the formulation is he's more of a war making president. Sure. Than a war than a peacemaking president. So even in your examples, including in Venezuela, you're not denying that he used military force in a way that is considered an act of war by every country on the planet. You're defending the wars that he's making by saying they lead to good outcomes, which we can debate. But that's a separate question from the proposition as far as these wars that you're concerned that I know he loves to cite. India was vehement that he had no role to play of any meaningful kind in mediating that conflict between India and Pakistan. That is a war that goes back, that conflict goes back many hundreds of years.

[Matt]

So does many of these other conflicts.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But even let me ask you this question about these other conflicts that you've named. Were those part of the 2024 campaign, did you say?

[Matt]

Not necessarily, but I don't think that.

[Jewish American Participant]

Right.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But you know why? Because they're completely trivial and because the role that the United States plays in them is also essentially trivial as well. These are these and we can analyze those. But let's be clear. The real question is does President Trump make war for the United States, whether he plays some ancillary role in this. Well, we're in a major war.

[Matt]

Well, so let's.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We're in a major war, aren't we in Iran?

[Matt]

I mean, sure, we're in a conflict, but I don't think this is where

[Glenn Greenwald]

you actually got a war. Is it a war? Is it a war?

[Matt]

You can call. It's a war and a conflict. There's no necessary, like there's no disagreement there. It's a conflict and a war. It's both. Right. The conflict didn't start recently. Right. In 1979, Iran kidnapped 66Americans and held them hostage for over 400 days. Right.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So why did they.

[Matt]

That happened because they're anti Western. But hold on, just let me finish this. So the conflict with Iran, or our issues with Iran in reference to specifically the Islamic Republic, started more there in 1982. Three years later, specifically there was the Beirut barracks bombing, which I'm sure you're familiar with, where 242Americans were killed in Beirut. They were there as a peacekeeping force, actually. And guess who specifically, I believe in 2002, a federal judge actually ruled that Iran supplied Hezbollah and gave them intelligence to kill 242Americans. On top of that, I believe in Venezuela they have the Quds Force as well. That is there. They fund three main terror groups. According to the FDD, they spent about $16 billion doing so. Right. Hezbollah, the Houthis in Yemen. And by the way, the last guy, you were also wrong. $200 billion worth of economic damage in reference to the Red Sea, where one tenth of trade goes up to be

[Glenn Greenwald]

A war with Iran when President Trump was inaugurated.

[Matt]

No, we weren't directly.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Are we a war now?

[Matt]

Right, so.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So he made that war. Right.

[Matt]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Stop. We talked a lot.

[Matt]

I say that we're already in a conflict. I would say that, yes. Generally not like war in terms of declaring war, conspicuously, but yes, we've been in a conflict, a longstanding conflict.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The proposition is President Trump is more of a war making.

[Matt]

Right. I don't think any of those conflicts were made by Trump. That's where you're wrong.

[Glenn Greenwald]

India and Pakistan were in conflict prior to the war.

[Matt]

You mentioned they were in conflict with Iran.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Exactly.

[Matt]

There are a lot of people who are not.

[Glenn Greenwald]

There are a lot of countries that are in conflict with one another. They're not all at war. Most of them are not at war. The United States became in a war with Iran when Israel and the United States announced that they were attacking Iran and started a war with Iran. Of course, there's conflicts. There's conflicts between Brazil and Argentina. There's conflicts between Peru and Uruguay. There's conflicts. You're being vague. No, I'm being very specific. I'm talking about a war.

[Matt]

There's a difference between smaller conflicts or like a general conflict that was going on for a long time and a large scale war. And even for example, small military engagements, for example Midnight Hammer, we bombed Natanz Fordo and Isfahan were more smaller engagements. Right.

[Glenn Greenwald]

If we pulled out pretty quickly and everything was fine afterwards, if Russia came to United states and bombed three different nuclear facilities in the United States with B52 bombers of the Russian Soviet enemy, would you say. Would you consider that to be an act of war? Yeah.

[Matt]

You're saying it would be Cassius Ballet?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No. No, I'm not.

[Matt]

Cashing ballet means act of war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah. Would you.

[Questioning Participant]

Would you.

[Matt]

So, yeah, it would be. It would be Cassius Belli. That's the answer.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay. Congratulations on using the last. I'm just wanting to. I don't want to necessarily catch your language. I want to. That would be an act of war, right?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The same way.

[Matt]

Hold on. The same way that, for example, the irgc, the Pakistani guy that was recently convicted, he admitted that the IRGC paid him and tried to give him intelligence to assassinate Donald Trump around the time where Butler happened. That's also Cassius Bell.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Were we at war with Iran trying

[Matt]

to kill our president?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Were we at war with the Electra election?

[Matt]

Were we at war with war? So we've been in conflict and an act of war with Iran for a very long time. But you just, it's funny that you're not mentioning, you said, mentioning the fact that 242Americans were killed in Beirut in 1982.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The United States, was that not an act of war? The United States States has killed countries throughout the Middle East. You know what President Reagan did in response to that? He said the reason this happened is because we have a military base in Lebanon where we shouldn't be. And he withdrew those troops. That's because he knew that the reason we were being attacked was because we were interfering in that region. The reason that Iran took over and the embassy was because we had overthrown their democratically elected government in 1953 and imposed a savage, brutal tyranny on them that ruled that country from 1953 until the revolution in 1979. But these are all historically interesting points that we could talk with. The justification, no, it's not wrong. The point is, I asked you earlier, was the United States at war with Iran? The answer was yes, but you said no and not.

[Matt]

Not. It depends on how you're defining war. It depends on how you're defining war in long term conflict. But let me hold on.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The point is, we were not at war, as you said the first time when I asked you, with Iran when President Trump took office, he didn't talk about there being a war throughout 2011. And we are now in a war,

[Matt]

even by war, cannot have a nuclear weapon. By the way, can you explain to me the reason for 60% rich uranium? No country that has tried to or even been in talks of trying to get a nuclear weapon has ever 60% and not gotten to 90% of Trump

[Glenn Greenwald]

invalidating the agreement where they were only at 3%. President Trump make this war.

[Matt]

No, that's not. The answer is no.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So we were, we were at war.

[Matt]

We have been at a general. In a general conflict with Iran or you could say even a war. I am saying war for over 47 years.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And President Trump just forgot to mention that we were at war. When he was running for president in 2024. Never said hey.

[Matt]

Openly said no.

[Military Veteran Participant]

No.

[Matt]

He's been very conspicuous about this. He's been, he's clear about the fact that we have a conflict with Iran.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We have issues. We do have conflict.

[Matt]

Again, I don't think you understand it. Wars can also be conflicts.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Exactly. Conflicts aren't necessarily wars. The question is, was there a war with Iran? And if so, why didn't President Trump bother to mention, hey, by the way, we're at war with Iran, 2024.

[Matt]

And very conspicuous about it.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So what would be the incentive?

[Matt]

Just like, hey, we're at war with Iran. Look, everyone understands that. We've been at a long.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Nobody understood because it's never true, by the way.

[John Regalato]

And we got to pause here. Can we just hear your response? And then we got to stop.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah. There were several wars that President Trump started in Yemen, Venezuela and Iran. You can say they're just or not, but these wars did not exist. Nobody said they existed during the 2024 campaign, including President Trump. And when he announced 2011 Yemen, he announced with the United States. All right, all right, pause. Good talk to you. Hello, how are you?

[Interviewer/Participant]

Good to meet you.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Nice to meet you too. Okay, so I want to get back to the prompt about peace versus war. So the way I look at it is the first Trump administration was a peaceful administration. There was no new wars that were started. Right. We have the Abraham Accords, which Trump should have won a Nobel Peace Prize for because it was historic. And then we had something that was ahistoric.

[Questioning Participant]

Right.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

So the Biden administration came in between. It kind of disrupted Trump's foreign policy. And under the Biden administration, we saw the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, which was really a green light to our anti Western adversaries, that we didn't really have the strong will to defend US Hegemony abroad. Following that, the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. And then we saw Biden trying to re engage in JCPOA negotiations as a legacy of the Obama administration. And he unfroze $16 billion in assets to the regime and then also waived sanctions they could sell over.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Whose assets were those?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

They're theirs. But they're frozen Iran's assets. Correct. But that's going against the maximum secure, the maximum pressure campaign. So if you don't want war, how do you then deter a belligerent actor? If it's not maximum sanctions, what would your solution be then?

[Glenn Greenwald]

To let them in general, in every other country on the planet except the United States and Israel, war is talked about as a last resort, something that you engage in only if there's a country that's attacking you or attacking your homeland or attacking. What's that?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

So the sanctions are a legacy of the Iraq Iran war in the 1980s. So which war? We're talking about the current operation, which is not a war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm talking about why we should be at war with Iran at all. And you're saying what is it that we should be doing to Iran?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

And my point with talking about The Biden regime, or regime. The Biden administration was that they empowered. We could maybe use regime. They empowered the Iranian regime diplomatically, financially, which then positioned them for October 7th. And also the Houthis, it is true. The Houthis blocked off the Suez Canal for four to five months. We also had British military, naval ships in the region, U.S. military ships. So they weren't just attacking Israel, Although, yes, that was a part of it. So we saw a destabilized Middle east because of the direction.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, let me just. It's interesting because I think there's a very American perspective because we are a country that is constantly at war, unlike everybody else on the planet. The last time China fought a war was 1979. And one of the reasons they're displacing the United States and every region in the globe, including Latin America and Africa, is because they spend their resources building up their country while we have our country deteriorating. Because we spend so much time and money and effort and resources on foreign

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

wars that they don't have the conventional capabilities to enact.

[Glenn Greenwald]

They have a massive, gigantic military. They just don't. They just know. Which is what, by the way, which is what President Trump's primary political appeal was, was that we're constantly fighting these foreign wars. We have to stop fighting foreign wars in the Middle east so that we can focus on our own communities in our own country. Here we are back in another one. But I think the point about Iran is that the idea that we can just go and steal countries money, as you said, it's Iran's assets. They have oil in their country. Let me just finish. They sell their oil to other countries. They receive money for it. We take that money using our dollar as the reserve currency. We steal it and freeze it. And then somehow President Trump just lifted sanctions on Iranian oil at sea, enabling

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

them to get huge amounts of money. It was a good faith.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, it was because he needed that. Because we need oil on the global market. Because of oil. Because gas prices are so high, lower

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

than it was under the Biden administration.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I'm saying we. We. Because of this war. President Trump lifted sanctions on Iran and oil.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Yes.

[Glenn Greenwald]

They are now charging money. They are now charging money for the Strait of Hormuz, and.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Yes.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And there's no way there will be an end to this war that we're currently negotiating unless the sanctions are lifted on Iran.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

They're completely wiped out the need. Let me just get back to what I was saying about the Biden administration, because it's important. So we look at how diplomacy has never worked. The JCPOA completely empowered the regime. Same thing with Biden again. So Trump came into a region that was completely changed also, just globally. Right. I believe the Iranian regime bought 2.5 million acres in Venezuela, which is in our western hemisphere. So he came into a world where our anti Western adversaries had gained strategic holdings that hinder U.S. hegemony abroad. So he went into the region and he said okay, I'm going to negotiate with the Iranian regime. Didn't come as good faith actors to the negotiation table. Operation Midnight Hammer was a preemptive strike. They still continue to.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Was Biden at war with Iran?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

I would say yeah. He. Well, he. It's hard to be at war with the regime that you're funding.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So Biden was not at war with Iran.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Well, we were at war with Iran via Israel. If you want that as a proxy situation.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Biden was fighting a war against Iran.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

And also another thing, you keep saying that Trump started wars in Yemen. I'm trying to figure out Lebanon again. But those are proxy wars funded by Iran.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Was the United States at war? Was Biden waging a war against Iran?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

He was funding the regime and empowering them.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So the answer is no.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

It's really hard to see this regime that you're.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Exactly. So the war in Iran was started by President Trump in the second time.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

The war in Iran is hap. First off, it's not a war, it's an operation. We have highly discriminately taken out what

[Glenn Greenwald]

would be a war be. How is it not a war?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Well, it's not a war because the Iranian regime we're going up a way that necessary.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We're blowing up the bridges.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

It's an operation and they've been blowing up the Middle East.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I'm just trying again the proposition we're supposed to be discussing and I realize why you don't want to and others don't want to Israel when Trump

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

has to let me finish response that was different administration when there was president.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You have to let me finish what the question we're supposed to be debating is that President Trump is more of a war making president.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

And I just seen a situation in the Middle east that was vastly different than the one that he left.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I understand. I'm trying to ask about war which

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

is what is the response High pressure.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Was President Biden waging a war on Iran, yes or no?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Well, if you're talking about responding to

[Glenn Greenwald]

answer that, why can't you answer if

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Iran is considered the houthis the Hezbollah,

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hamas, then yes, President Biden was waging a war in Iran. I thought you said he was so, so, so favorable to Iran that he

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

was treating Iran so well, both sides of the conflict. But he empowered the regime.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Were we at war? Not with Iran's proxies, but with Iran itself under Joe Biden actually broke the

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

status quo of not engaging with Israel, our greatest ally.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Did Joe Biden wage a war in Iran?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

It's not. First off, again, why can't you just answer?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Why can't you just answer?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Yes, if you're going to consider via proxies, which.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I don't mean via proxy. I mean directly with Iran.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Okay, but this is. You're contradicting yourself because you said Trump started wars.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm only asking a question. I'm only asking a question.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Can't define war one way for Trump.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm only asking.

[John Regalato]

We got to pause there. We're out of time.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Please return to your seat.

[John Regalato]

Raise your flag if you would concede that Trump started this current war with Iran currently. Okay, so we got two people. Thank you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

My next round of claim is President Trump is subservient to the Israel Lobby.

[John Regalato]

If you'd like to debate this claim, please get to the chair in three. Three, two, one.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Whoa. Hey. Good to meet you. Ryan.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Nice to meet you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Nice to meet you.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I think important thing to do with debates is to define our terms. Can you please tell me what subservient is?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes. Serving the interest of someone else. Taking orders from somebody else, taking direction from somebody else. Not in every case, but as a general posture ethos.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Okay, so that's already a problem. Because subservient doesn't mean not sometimes taking the case, sometimes not. Subservience, literally defined as in a subordinate manner you are controlled by in a very direct way.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You want to set it up so that if you can point to one example where President Trump didn't do what Israel wanted, then that means somehow he's not subservient to Israel. That's. You just want to. Creating a binary framework where as long as you can point to one example, I can point to the Israelis wanted something. Right. So that's why I'm saying that is not what this proposition means. It doesn't mean that in each and every case, President Trump is fully and absolutely obedient to Israel. That if you want to. If you want me to concede that there are instances, I will be happy to point to some as well, where President Trump or other presidents. That's not the question.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I understand. I'm saying that your claim. It's your claim. I didn't force you to make the claim. Your claim is not there's high influence. Your claim is not any of that. Your claim is he's subservient. And if you're going to say he's subservient, that means something. Now, if we want to change what you're saying and you just want to say he has higher influence from. When you say pro Israeli, do you just mean Jews? What do you mean by that?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, of course I don't mean Jews. There are huge numbers of Jews who oppose Israel.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I'm asking. Well, generally, when I debate this topic, a lot of people will say, like, you know the Adelsons, right, Because they're Jewish, they're Israeli. Or do you mean pro Israel? Like you're talking about apac, you're talking about J Street.

[Glenn Greenwald]

People talk about George Soros, but nobody suggests that he's pro Israel. The reason people talk about the Adelsons is because they gave $300 billion. $300 million to Trump's campaigns. And Trump himself said that every time the Adelsons came to the White House, they didn't ask about the United States, they asked for things for Israel. Trump went to the Knesset last year and said, miriam Adelson loves Israel more than they love the United States.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Is Trump subservient to Elon Musk?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I don't think Trump is observing

[Military Veteran Participant]

to Elon Musk, at least in this last election cycle, gave significantly more than the Adel says.

[Glenn Greenwald]

He's right. He's one individual. He's one individual.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Exactly. One individual gave more than two. And also the lobbying groups. But that being said, what is it that makes you think he's controlled in at least a significant way by whatever

[Glenn Greenwald]

you're saying, what President Trump himself said. President Trump said that every single time Sheldon Adelson came to the White House, they asked for things for Israel and he gave it to them. They didn't ask for things for the United States. He said that.

[Military Veteran Participant]

He didn't say he gave everything they asked.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes, he did. He said. He said every time he said, in fact, in fact, the Golan Heights, he gave them even things that they didn't ask for. Correct. For Israel. Not free the United States. Correct.

[Military Veteran Participant]

He did not tell them times where they had talks where they disagree. He never talked about that. I know exactly which quote you're talking about. You're adding that in to push your narrative, right?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I'm not adding that in.

[Military Veteran Participant]

We're not here to talk about just the Adelsons. We're here to talk about the pro Israel lobby. I'm asking you, how do you know that they are controlling Trump, at least in a significant enough way to whatever your case is.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What I'm saying is that President Trump makes decisions in the interest of the Israeli people and the Israeli government over and above the American people. And it's the only country for which that's true. That is subservience. We can go back to the semantic definition, but that is what I mean. And there's so many instances where President Trump has taken steps, and right now his entire focus is on a country that is Israel's primary adversary, that Israel has wanted for decades the United States will go in and change the regime.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I understand the hyperbole. His entire focus is not on that, but I get it. But my question for you is, I

[Glenn Greenwald]

would hope it is. It's a very dangerous war. He should be.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Your argument. You trying to prove your argument's failing? Because what you're saying is that he is just giving everything they want. As if.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I didn't say that.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Actually, you literally said that.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I said he gave everything I said at the start. I would rewind the clip anyway, at the start. If you want to prove that this, that there are times when the Trump doesn't give everything to Israel, I would concede that. It's not a binary, abstract framework.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I have to. I'm trying to get my.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Remember when I said that?

[Military Veteran Participant]

I do remember when you said that. And I remember when you contradicted yourself. What does that say when I contradict?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I already got.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I already said this point. But here's the problem. When he said that people go in, we want this. And he's like, I don't really agree with that. It's like, well, we'll give you some more money. He's like, okay, I agree with it. Now, how do you know Trump doesn't just already align with the same ideology?

[Glenn Greenwald]

The reason I know is because President Trump spent a full decade promising people like you and everyone else who voted for him that he was not going to involve the United States in more Middle east wars, in more regime change wars. That is the basis and foundation for Trump's entire political movement. Israel comes to the United States, and there's no way to compare Israel to any other country. Netanyahu came seven times. No other world leader came twice. We give billions and billions. I thought, I let you talk, and yet you sit there and Say, let me talk. Let me talk. And then I get six words out, and you can't control yourself.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Go ahead, Glenn.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So there is no comparison. We give infinitely more money to Israel. We deploy our military forces to protect Israel. President Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu came seven times. And then when he was done coming, Donald Trump turns around and does exactly what he's been promising for a decade that he wouldn't do, which is he goes to war in the Middle East. A regime change. War in the Middle east against Israel's primary enemy after Netanyahu spent 30 years saying, this is what we want the United States to do. That is how I know that President Trump does things that Israel tells him to, even though he doesn't already believe.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Okay, well, first off, that's actually not proof that he does. That's just an indication that you might be right. But I'm gonna correct your quote. Actually. President Trump said multiple times, just off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing some. He said multiple times that he doesn't want to go straight to military action with Iran, but he has made it multiple. Very, very clear that if negotiations are exhausted, I will use the military option for regime change. Okay, first off, do you know what the four goals of the war are in Iran?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm asking you, do you ever know what the four goals of the war are?

[Military Veteran Participant]

What are they? Is it regime change?

[Glenn Greenwald]

They change so many times. No, no, no, no, no, no, President. No, no, no, no. There aren't four goals. That. There has been four stated goals.

[Military Veteran Participant]

You can go on the Internet right now to the official government website.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Can you read the goals? Trump, in an interview with the Washington Post, said, my main goal and why I'm attacking Iran is to. Is that one of the four goals that, that, that. That President Trump said was his most important objective when going to war with Iran?

[Military Veteran Participant]

I'm going to concede something. I agree with you that President Trump speaks in very grandiose measures. He does. I'm not going to. Everything's the biggest thing ever, the most beautiful thing ever. It's the worst thing ever. I'm not going to.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That was a disputed goal of the war.

[Military Veteran Participant]

No, it was not. If you listen to our Department of War objective. If you listen to our Department of War.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And by the way, you can go on, President. That determines the war objectives.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I understand. Okay.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's not the Department of War.

[Trump Supporter]

It's.

[Military Veteran Participant]

First off, that's actually. That's not. I was in the military for 12 years. That' who was your commander in chief?

[Glenn Greenwald]

The Secretary of Defense. No, it's not right. No.

[Military Veteran Participant]

First off, that's not how objectives are detained.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You're right.

[Military Veteran Participant]

He agrees with them or disagrees with them. And again, I agree. Trump will go on interviews and he will say no.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Who sets war goals for the United States?

[Military Veteran Participant]

Well, first off, it's actually a complex measure of how it goes out. Are you asking who agrees with the finalized when a war started?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Who determines what the goals of the war?

[Military Veteran Participant]

Again, it's a very complex measure.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Correct.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Again, if you're saying agree with, he gets briefs. He gets people from the Pentagon.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Who's the final decision maker about the

[Military Veteran Participant]

goals of the question and that would be the commander in chief, the President.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Right. Know what wars are. If you look up what the President says.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I got it. If you look at the official memo that was signed by him that was pushed out and still on the government website to this very day, you can read the main objectives of the war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Has he said that regime change is one of the goals of the war?

[Military Veteran Participant]

I agree that in. He's implied it in interviews. He said it explicitly in the official

[Glenn Greenwald]

memos where he that our goal is to.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Let me ask you

[Glenn Greenwald]

answer my question. Has Donald Trump said that a goal of the war in Iran is to free the Iranian people by changing the regime of that country? A regime change war in the Middle east of the kind he said he wouldn't fight. Did Donald Trump say that was a goal of the war or not?

[Military Veteran Participant]

I'm answering one word answer, please.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Please.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I'm going to answer you one word

[John Regalato]

answer or we got to move on real quick.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Answer one word. He said in interviews.

[Trump Supporter]

Yes.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Thank you.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Thank you.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Prior to October 7th. America First. And still, it still means America first is having a strong ally in Israel. I find it very interesting this disproportionate selective outrage with this pseudo Israel influence. AIPAC 3.8 million compared to the billions of dollars from other foreign adversaries you're talking about subservient. We have the Chamber of Congress, we have Big Pharma, we have the real estate association, all massively giving more funds to the lobbying world. The influence of Qatar alone, $1 billion on universities and media. Aren't you more concerned about that? Why do you never speak about the Qatari influence in America?

[Glenn Greenwald]

There's no comparing the influence of Qatar in the United States to Israel. And the proof of that is that we don't give $4 billion automatically, a minimum every year to Qatar. The way we do with is billion Dollars that you said, much of which has to be spent at American arms manufacturers like Boeing and Raytheon, is like a gift certificate that the American public gives to Israel and says, here, go shopping for yourself at our. At our arms dealers. There's no other country that gets that. We've given vastly more sums to Israel over the last several decades than any other country by far. We deploy our military for Israel. We don't do that for Qatar. President Trump has been imposing speech codes at universities to protect Israel and not for Qatar. People who demonstrate against Israel are being deported, not for Qatar. And that the amount of money it' 3.8 is the. Is the minimum. That $3.8 billion is the minimum. We gave over $20 billion under President Biden in 2024 to Israel.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

You're not being honest.

[Glenn Greenwald]

These are all facts. Go for it.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

No, no, they are facts, but you're not saying the whole story.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What else?

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Israel is the only country that actually gives us a return on investment. That 3.8 billion. Yes. 80% of it is invested right back into America. America jobs, American defense. And guess who tests out all of our military equipment? It's Israel. Because they are in the front lines of our enemies. They are doing us a favor. We need Israel strategically, and we are grateful to have them as a strong ally.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The American people have turned against Israel because they're sick of having the resurrection

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

because of propaganda that you're perpetuating on. We didn't have an issue of this before October 7th.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You look at American communities, they're falling apart. This was what President Trump.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

This is Israel lobby's fault.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's not entirely the Israel lobby's fault, but we ought to be focusing on.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Should we talk about Doge? The $215 billion in Doge?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Maybe we should look at this. Israeli people have a higher standard of living than tens of millions of people in the United States.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Why is that force to do with Americans?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Because Americans are forced to subsidize the Israeli military to send tens of billions of dollars to Israel to go to war for Israel.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Tens of billions of dollars.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah. I just told you. In 2024 alone, it was above $20 billion.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Were in a war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Exactly. Every time Israel is at war. Israel's always at war.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Every time. Israel has never asked for boots on the ground. And yes, they ran a bar.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, we pay for their wars. We pay for their wars.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

We pay for those wars because it's to our interests that there is stability in the Middle east. Because these are proxies to America as well.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The wars that Israel starts, creating instability, not stability.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Sunday do not normalize terrorism and the Islamic caliphate. Why are you so hyper focused on our allies?

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's the same way that we started off. The first question where people say no and Trump doesn't make wars and then, okay, Trump makes them, but they're justified. The point here is we do more for the Israeli lobby than any other country. You started off by saying, no, it's not ally. You're saying, yes, we do more for Israel because they're an ally.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

That's a good reason.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Of course they're an ally and they're an enemy. They spy on us, they steal our nuclear secrets. Israel is the number one surveillance threat. Not the way that Israel spies on the United States. When I did the Snowden reporting, there are doctors that say, here are the countries that are the greatest surveillance threat, China, Russia, Iran. Number one on that is Israel because they treat us like an enemy. They take our money, they sponge off our citizenry, they suck money out of our country.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

I don't want to talk about our actual enemies. You only want to talk about Israel.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I think we got a pause there.

[John Regalato]

You've been voted out by the majority

[Glenn Greenwald]

of the country on the planet.

[John Regalato]

Please return to your seats.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Okay, thank you.

[John Regalato]

Good job.

[Congressional Candidate]

So here's the thing. I actually do agree with you that Israel does have an outsized influence on our government in general. I think that it's a policy thing that we have to start putting domestic policy ahead of foreign policy. What I don't agree with is your characterization of it as subservient. I think that implies a greater allegiance to a foreign country than what a president actually has. So let me understand. Tell me some of your reasons why you think it goes beyond influence.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Sure. So for decades in the United States, in both parties, when they had the White House, the policy of the United States has been that the worst thing that the United States has to overcome in the Middle east when doing deals in the Middle east, when trying to advance our interests in the Middle east, is the fact that the Palestinians do not have a state. And the only way that the United States can ever improve its position in the Middle east is through a two state solution. That's why going back to the first Bush administration, back to the Reagan administration, they were threatening Israel. They were indignant with the Israelis that they were expanding settlements in the west bank because that would forever prevent a two state solution, would mean that we were seen in the Middle east as suppressing the Palestinians. Israel ignored that. They Expanded west bank settlements when the first Bush administration tried to stop it. Bill Clinton ran in 1992, accusing Bush 41 of being an anti Semite. And ever since then, when that, that harsh accusatory framework came down on James Baker and George Bush and Brent Scowcroft, those anti Semite American presidents, with some exceptions, have been petrified of opposing Israel. And the Israel lobby, they can remove members of Congress like no other lobby can. They've proven that repeatedly. And so it's not just that they're our ally and we help them when it's our interest. We help them even when it's contrary to our interest, as we're doing right now with this war.

[Congressional Candidate]

Well, yeah, you just kind of danced around it. You didn't actually say what. What characterizes Trump's behavior as subservient. Let me say.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Do you want to know?

[Congressional Candidate]

No, no. But let me say one thing. I actually do relate a lot to what you're saying. Being called an anti Semite, I'm running for Congress in Hollywood, Glendale, Burbank and Pasadena. And the thing that I got labeled for criticizing Israel, the Israeli lobby and the government of Israel, to be fair, I got immediately labeled an anti Semite by my own party, by the Republican Party. But I want to understand what makes Trump subservient? What makes the influence go beyond just influence and makes him have a greater allegiance to Israel than America?

[Glenn Greenwald]

You have an answer by subservience. I mean, when you take interests that are in the interest of another country over your own and subservient, are you saying why is he subservient? That or what do I mean by subservient?

[Congressional Candidate]

What you've described so far is influence, which we all agree there's a foreign influence in our government that's outsized, and it very often drives our politics and our politicians to go beyond the interests of Americans. But that doesn't mean that they have a greater allegiance to a foreign government than they do to their own people.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm not saying President Trump has a greater allegiance to Israel than he does to the United States. I'm saying that the lobby that influences him, that he's afraid of, that he takes direction from, their goal is to make sure that American politicians are serving the interest of Israel, even above the interest of the United States, even when it undermines or subverts the interests of the United States. That is the point of the Israel lobby, is to make sure that Israeli interests. You're talking about Israel lobby.

[John Regalato]

All right, we gotta pause there. You've Been voted out.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Good luck on your cat.

[Jewish American Participant]

Thank you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hello.

[Matt]

Hello.

[Jewish American Participant]

Nice to meet you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Nice to meet you as well.

[Jewish American Participant]

I'm Eden. Okay, so when you're talking about the Israel lobby, are you referring mostly to AIPAC or.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I mean, I'm certainly referring to aipac, but there's a gigantic number of other organs and arms of the Israeli lobby.

[Jewish American Participant]

Right. And can you give examples where they're going outside of legal bounds?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I don't. My accusation is not that AIPAC acts illegally. I do think there's a good argument that they ought to be registered under Farah, but under our laws, they're not required.

[Jewish American Participant]

Okay, so with the Farah argument, you do know that it's American Jewish interests, right? The lobby, aipac, is for American Jewish interests.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So a PAC takes direction from the Israeli government. They're over there all the time. I understand the argument that these are Americans, but a lot of Americans have to register under FAIR if they're taking directions from or acting on behalf of a foreign government, which I think AIPAC is. But I'm not arguing that AIPAC is criminal. That's a different debate. We can have that, but that's not the relevant question.

[Jewish American Participant]

I hear this argument a lot, and what I always go back to is America is voting with their dollar. Okay, so yeah, there is influence, right? There is Jewish American influence, but it is because the American people want it. That's why AIPAC is so successful.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, I'm glad you raised that. Because actually, what AIPAC does when they want to remove a member from Congress, like they did with Cori Bush or Jamaal Bowman in the last cycle, like they've done with tons of them, is they spend insane amounts of money for congressional district like they're doing with Thomas Massie. Now, they don't go in and advertise and say this member of Congress isn't sufficiently supportive of Israel or is too anti Israel, because they know that's a failing issue. Because Americans don't care about foreign countries. They care about their own country, like every other country. What they do is they go in and they deceive people by saying, our ads are really about the fact that he doesn't tend to potholes or he has bad constituent services, or he doesn't support health care, or he's doing that.

[Jewish American Participant]

Are they lying about it?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, it's just. It's.

[Jewish American Participant]

So they're choosing to focus on other issues. And these are issues that America is

[Glenn Greenwald]

exactly the opposite of what you said, which they go in. And the reason why you said the reason why people vote for the, for AIPAC's candidates is because they want support for Israel.

[Jewish American Participant]

Well, you know what if they raise the issue and this candidate says that they're going to.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But that's not AIPAC's concern. It's a totally stealth and disease put

[Jewish American Participant]

their money wherever they want.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I know. I'm not arguing that AIPAC is a criminal organization. I'm not arguing that they should be imprisoned. I'm arguing that the point of the Israel lobby is nefarious. Yes, it is nefarious because the point is to in the shadows hide their agenda, which is to keep American politician subservient and captive to the interest of the.

[Jewish American Participant]

Okay, so you always have to, you have to always have to revert to the conspiracy idea.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's not a conspiracy. It's done right out in the open. I don't think it's a conspiracy.

[Jewish American Participant]

You always have to go back to the conspiracy.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I don't think it's a conspiracy.

[Jewish American Participant]

You can't deal with the fact that American Jews are voting for this American.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Do you know what percentage of American. Do you know what percentage of Americans go? Yes. And you're free to do that. You're free to donate to whatever campaign if you want. So am I.

[Jewish American Participant]

There's no argument that we can reform the lobby system. Okay, that's fair. But Americans are voting with their dollar the difference the way that they're the

[Glenn Greenwald]

pharma lobby and the Wall street lobby and the Silicon Valley lobby, which are gigantic, which are pouring a lot more money than they are East American companies. There's no other lobby that represents a foreign country that has even 1/100th of the impact that the Israel lobby has. And that's what makes it so dangerous an ally.

[Jewish American Participant]

Jewish Americans have a vested interest in Israel.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Okay.

[Jewish American Participant]

They're also allied.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What do you mean? Why do they all have a lot of.

[Jewish American Participant]

Some don't like you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Right.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

You're Jewish.

[Jewish American Participant]

Yeah. Just like you. So some do, some don't.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay.

[Jewish American Participant]

If some do, they can vote with their dollar. They're already our allies.

[Glenn Greenwald]

A lot of Jews have a vested interest in a foreign country.

[Jewish American Participant]

Yes.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And how do they. President Trump said about Mary Adelson, for example, who's a citizen of Israel and the United States, that he believes she has a greater loyalty to Israel. She would choo Israel when the two are in conflict with that.

[Jewish American Participant]

And that's a problem. And I've heard other people say they have different. They care more about other countries they're born in as well.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Right. But it's kind of a problem that

[Jewish American Participant]

the single rich people put in legislation.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Israeli American is somebody who's in the White House all the time, according to President Trump has more loyalty to a foreign country than she does to the American, to the United States. So that's a pretty gigantic problem.

[Jewish American Participant]

So what?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Kick her out? President Trump has her in the White House every. Every other week because of.

[Jewish American Participant]

Okay, well, she's not doing anything illegal. So what's the problem? You're just. You have a problem with the motivation.

[Glenn Greenwald]

A lot of things.

[Jewish American Participant]

Okay, so we can't police everybody's motivations.

[Glenn Greenwald]

There are a lot of things that aren't illegal that still should be criticized and dragged out into the sunlight.

[Jewish American Participant]

Let's criticize it. But the whole, this whole AIPAC is this nefarious grand puppet master thing is absolutely debunkable. Okay. APAC sometimes does not win. I mean, we saw with, in 2015 the JCPOA situation.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I agree. I agree. They don't always get their way. They get their way almost all the time. Most of the. And that is a huge.

[Jewish American Participant]

Again, America's voting with their dollar. So.

[John Regalato]

All right, we got a pause there. We are out of time. Please return to your seat.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Thank you. My next round of claim is the Trump administration has been considerably more corrupt than the Biden administration.

[John Regalato]

All right, if you'd like to debate this claim, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hello. Hello there.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

There's so many things I, I could talk for hours on end, even giving Kamala Harris an appointation of. I don't know if that's a word, but appointing her as the next candidate because he wasn't able to run. You're America first, right?

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's what you're saying?

[Military Veteran Participant]

Right.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Okay. So do you agree that it was corrupt?

[Glenn Greenwald]

So I'm somebody who believes that there was a lot of corruption in the Biden administration. My claim is not that the Biden administration was free of meaningful corruption. It had a lot of corruption. My claim is that the Trump administration has a lot more corruption, and we can talk about what those financial deals are. Okay, well, I'll just give you one example. Jared Kushner, who's now running Middle east foreign policy and negotiating Middle east policy for Donald Trump, his son in law,

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

and doing a great job.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Right before he was put into that position, just a year or so earlier, he created a hedge fund. And the number one investor were the Saudis, who invested $2 billion in Jared Kushner's fund, both as a reward for a Job well done for the service that the Trump administration in the first term to the Saudis and also for making sure that the Saudis interests are protected. It's basically a bribe directly to the Trump family. The Trump family created a crypto company called World Liberty Financial, 49% of which is now owned by the United Arab Emirates. We've heard so much here about how important the UAE is, about how Saudi Arabia is and they're funneling gigantic sums of money directly to the Trump family.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Okay, but look at, can I, I just want to interject a little bit because look at Nancy Pelosi, look at all the inside trading.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I agree with you completely.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

It goes way beyond that.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's way beyond that.

[Pro-Israel Supporter]

Both sides do it. Is it right? But Biden administration and all of the people on the Democratic side are doing it so much worse on such a larger scale. It's affecting America.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I worked a lot on the Hunter Biden corruption case, principally that he got $50,000 a month from a company in Ukraine called Burisma. When Vice President Biden had immense influence in Ukraine, it was way more than that. And as Andy McCarthy said, who's a longtime Republican conservative prosecutor, in order to talk about or compare the corruption, similar corruption by the Trump sons and by Jared Kushner, you have to add 2, 0 the amounts. And I think that's what the, the concern is Biden was.

[John Regalato]

We got to move on. Thank you. You've been, it's actually fun doing this.

[Glenn Greenwald]

How's it going? Good.

[Trump Supporter]

How are you?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Good, good. So I think that we can see

[Trump Supporter]

corruption pretty well in the Biden administration.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You've got Joe Biden's drug addict son

[Trump Supporter]

that got convicted on gun charges, on tax evasion charges. And Joe Biden used his pardoning power to erase that completely. But I think that we can see corruption in its fine when you have a senile old man like Joe Biden who is getting propped up and is basically a puppet for the Democratic Party.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So I think when we talk about corruption, we're not talking generally about just bad acts or malfeasance in government. We're generally talking about the influence of ill gotten gains or malicious motives or self interested motives in government decisions. What made Hunter Biden, the Hunter Biden case, corrupt was not his drug addiction or his tax evasion. Those were personal bad acts on his part. Well, it's a bad use, it's a

[Trump Supporter]

bad use of the pardoning power for

[Glenn Greenwald]

Joe Biden to do that.

[Trump Supporter]

It shows clear corruption.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah. I mean President Trump has pardoned Dozens of people, all of whom are very wealthy, who stole money from investors who have friends that are very close to the Trump administration. There's a whole pardon industry surrounding the Trump White House, where if you have enough money and you can pay a million dollars or a million and a half dollars or $2 million to close Trump Associates, you will get a pardon. But the problem with the Hunter Biden case, what made that so concerning, was that he was monetizing the influence that Joe Biden had in Ukraine in order to get all kinds of money for himself. This is what Donald Trump Jr. Is doing, Eric Trump is doing, and especially Jared Kushner is doing in the region of the world that President Trump has been most influential, which is the Persian Gulf, where there's the most amount of money, billions of dollars have flowed to the Trump family through properties and entities that they've created, including World Liberty Financial, including Jared Pushers. Does that not concern you the way it did with Hunter Biden? I don't. I'm not talking about billions of dollars.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Right.

[Trump Supporter]

Well, I mean, the HOC did report that the Biden family received 24 to 27 million dollars.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm talking about billions.

[Trump Supporter]

You're just basically saying that Trump was better at being.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I'm saying it's. It's great. It's more damaging currency. So you're criticizing Trump for being.

[Trump Supporter]

Being more of a businessman, a better businessman than Joe Biden.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's like saying, oh, that guy stole a Milky Way, and that guy defrauded billions of dollars from old ladies. So this guy's better than this one at being a crook. At being a crook. They're similar.

[Questioning Participant]

Yes.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I do think Trump's better at that. Yeah. I mean, corruption is similar as far

[Trump Supporter]

as, you know, how it's monetized.

[John Regalato]

We got pause there. Flags are up. You've been voted out.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Good. Thanks.

[Skeptical Participant]

How you doing?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Good. How are you doing?

[Young Male Supporter]

Well.

[Skeptical Participant]

So you're saying that Trump is more corrupt than Joe Biden. That's what you're saying?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm saying the Trump administration is more. Has a lot more corruption than the Biden administration has.

[Skeptical Participant]

Okay. By. I'm guessing by what, the war or his kids or what.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I think we're focused primarily on financial corruption. I mean, you can talk about other kinds of corruption as well, but the concern about Hunter Biden and the money that he made off his father's influence, which I found extremely objectionable and still do, pales in comparison to the extreme fortune that the Trump kids and Jared Kushner are building off of Trump's power.

[Skeptical Participant]

Okay, well, Trump, Trump is not corrupted at all. We're not in a war as well. Sorry, there's so many. I wanted to answer you on so many things, but you're not being specific about how it's Trump, his administration corrupted what exactly? Because his kids aren't the administration. It's just Donald Trump. So how is.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Well, Hunter Biden wasn't the Biden administration, but it was just the president stumping Biden.

[Skeptical Participant]

I want to go on. You're saying Trump, Trump. Okay, Trump administration. How is he more.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's a comparison between the Biden administration. But I'll tell.

[Skeptical Participant]

The most corrupting that Trump has done.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'll tell you. I'll tell you what. The. There's a lot of things, but the main one is they created a company shortly before Trump's inauguration that's a crypto company called World Financial Liberty. If you want to, if you want me to explain, I can explain it, but you got to let me explain.

[Skeptical Participant]

So you're saying that he's corrupt? In a way, I'll explain.

[Congressional Candidate]

Trouble.

[Skeptical Participant]

Just like Hunter Biden got in trouble.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Explain. There's the World Financial Liberty, which is the crypto company that the UAE has invested hundreds of billions of dollars in, that has 49% ownership, that paid a huge amount of money to enrich President Trump. On top of that, he created this coin, the Trump coin, where any foreign influencers or foreign power can pour as much money as they want into Donald Trump's pocket and have done so.

[Skeptical Participant]

Are you aware that Trump. Are you aware that Trump doesn't take. He never has took his presidential checks? Are you aware that he's given up all.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes, that's. Congratulations.

[Skeptical Participant]

Oh, that's just. Four hundred and a half thousand dollars. That's it. Okay. Are you aware that he's given up everything he owns?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Trump's infinitely richer man now than he was when he saw.

[Skeptical Participant]

Are you jealous of that because he's president? Is that jealousy or something? Are you jealous of that? That he knows what to do with his money and he knows how to do.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Were you a critic of Joe Biden? Were you a critic of Joe Biden?

[Skeptical Participant]

Close to corrupt. And you know what? You want to know what you're doing right now? You're saying that. I saw. He corrected yourself. You said you were saying Trump to the other people, but now you, you, you're talking to me and you said Trump administration. So.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, the formulation is the Trump administration has been significantly more corrupt than the Biden administration. That's what it's been from the start.

[Skeptical Participant]

You were talking to them, saying Trump, and now you're saying Trump administration.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm saying both. I explained to you how Donald Trump is corrupt.

[Skeptical Participant]

Okay, so Trump is not the administrator. Trump is Trump. So you think he's in control of whatever happens on something else or his.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The company that received hundreds of billions of dollars from the UAE is.

[Skeptical Participant]

And that's all Trump.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Trump's fault.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Trump's company. He created the company with Steve Witkoff, with Steve Woodcoff's kid.

[Skeptical Participant]

It's Trump's fault. Yes or no?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes, of course it's Trump's fault. He was the one who created the company.

[Skeptical Participant]

How is it Trump's fault?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Because Trump is the one who received all that money and now is in bed with the uae. It's exactly the kind of quid we gotta pause. I don't think. I think there should be.

[John Regalato]

We got pause there. You've been voted out.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Good to see you. Good to see you again. How are you?

[Interviewer/Participant]

Good.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

As I've been listening, I've been writing down all the areas of corruption that I could think of from the Biden administration. And so what you have to prove is that what Trump has done is greater, considerably more.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Exactly right.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

So you have Biden's auto pen, where he's just signing legislation without actually not knowing what it actually is.

[Glenn Greenwald]

How do you know what you have?

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

You have osha. Well, let me.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Let me. Well, you want to.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Hold on, let me list.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay. You have.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

You have OSHA where he tried to. To cram down vaccine mandates on working Americans unconstitutionally. You have $400 billion in Covid fraud during the Biden administration. You have Hunter Biden. I know you agree with that, so don't need to go into that too much. You have millions of illegal immigrants entering in the country and changing the voter base. You have Free College. He tried to do that unconstitutionally. You have Burisma.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

He went after Trump illegally through different court cases, and you'll love this one. You know how much. You know who is the greatest senator who have taken the most amount of money from AIPAC? Joe Biden.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, a fanatical. I know that. $4.2 million. No, Trump. Trump has gotten more from the pro Israel lobby, but Joe Biden has spent his entire career in captivity to Israel. So. But.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

So your burden is.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But let me. Let me. All.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Everything that Trump has done outweighs all those.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Have you. I think there's an issue with corruption and what that means and what that includes and Doesn't. But it's not every bad act. But let's just leave that to the side for a minute.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Okay?

[Glenn Greenwald]

You sat here and you've heard me list all of the different ways in which Trump, his sons, and Jared Kushner have built a multi billion dollar personal fortune by trading on their power. You've heard all those. I'm not saying you agree with them, but you've heard me outline those, correct? I've heard you outline those. Do you agree or disagree with the claims that I've made about those?

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Well, what I want to get to is.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I know, but we're building up. We're building a comparison. So I heard you.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Why don't you go ahead and list

[Glenn Greenwald]

all the multiple things? Because, you know, I have. I have. So I'm asking you.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

The corruption there. Right. Okay, so then, now go ahead and

[Trump Supporter]

list all the other things.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I just got done saying to you that while you were sitting behind me for the last 15 minutes, I've listed six or seven different ways in which Trump, his sons, and Jared Kushner have built a multi billion dollar personal fortune by trading on his personal power. I don't think there are things that compare in the Biden administration to the level of personal corruption. And what I'm asking you is whether you think. You don't think going after your political opponent. What I'm asking you is whether you can illegally. Don't you think Trump has gone after his political opponents as well? He's tried to indict James Comey, he tried to indict Letitia James, and even the grand jury threw them out. But I'm asking you about the examples that I listed. Do you think I've accurately described the personal corruption? I'm trying.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

If I grant your.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Even if I grant it, I want to know if you think I've accurately described it, because we're talking about billions of dollars in personal wealth. Glenn, do you think the corruption is worse than the Biden administration? Tell me the billions of. With all the examples. I want you to defend your time. Do you think I want you to

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

defend the claim that you were making?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm defending it. So Jared Kushner created a vulture capital fund, an investment fund in which the primary investors were the Saudis who invested $2 billion into Jared Kushner personal fund. The Emiratis have invested hundreds of millions of dollars as well. Donald Trump, his sons, Steve Witkoff and his sons created a crypto company that the UAE has devoted hundreds of billions of dollars to and then bought a 49% stake share in the Qataris have done the same. Donald Trump Jr. And Eric Trump just created a new drone company that they're now selling to the Pentagon and getting contracts from the Pentagon that will further personally enrich the Trump family. We're talking about a level billions and billions of dollars in personal wealth that did not exist before Donald Trump entered the presidency, that now exists in his family by virtue of these deals with the exact countries on which he wields the most influence.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

There's two points I want to make. Okay, so first off, right.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Even.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Let's say I grant all of that.

[Trump Supporter]

Let's say I grant all of that because it's true.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

No, no, let's say I grant all of that. That still doesn't prove your claim. I brought up a whole list of things that Biden.

[Glenn Greenwald]

How much money did Biden divide in his family? Make money? Just how much? Can I make my second point? Yeah. Can I make my second point?

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Okay. Are American citizens not free to pursue business activities outside political office?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No. No, they're not.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Can Obama not pursue enough interest? Can Obama not pursue book deals once

[Glenn Greenwald]

he's out of office? He can. Once he's out of. Once he served two terms and is out of office. This was.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Was Trump in office when this was happening?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes. The World Financial Liberty Company was created in the transition after he won the election and before he was inaugurated, four days before he was inaugurated, he created that crypto company into which hundreds of billions of dollars of foreign money have flowed, enriching the Trump family. I don't think you know about these transactions. I don't think we all. There's things people have brought up that I don't know about. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying I think you ought to go ahead and.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

You're just not defending your claim. Again, even if I would grant you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'll leave it to the audience to decide if I've defended.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Even if I grant you all of that, you still.

[Trump Supporter]

Okay, we gotta pause.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Anything about Biden.

[Trump Supporter]

You were saying?

[John Regalato]

We gotta pause there.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Good to meet you. How are you?

[Interviewer/Participant]

Good.

[John Regalato]

How are you?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Good, thanks.

[Interviewer/Participant]

So you mentioned Donald Trump's crypto endeavor. So could you tell me a little bit more about that and how that makes him corrupt?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Sure. There's actually a constitutional prohibition on political leaders accepting or receiving gifts from foreign countries because of the obvious and extreme potential to corrupt US Foreign policy because foreign governments and foreign leaders can pay money into the pockets of American officials in exchange for favors. So Trump by creating this World Financial Liberty Crypto Co. Along with Steve Witkoff and his campaign kids, made it so that not just. It's a potential that foreign governments and foreign leaders can invest huge amounts of money that go into Trump's pocket, but that was what the company was created for. And that's exactly what has happened.

[Interviewer/Participant]

Mentioned that Trump was in violation of some type of federal law that restricted presidents from doing business.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's a constitutional amendment.

[Interviewer/Participant]

Okay, awesome. Okay, so that you did not make that claim. You didn't say Trump was in violation of a constitutional amendment to try to protect the interests of the American people. You said that he was corrupt. So you haven't shown any type of reason. Reason of why Trump is corrupt.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The Constitution.

[Interviewer/Participant]

Does Trump own it or does his family own it?

[Glenn Greenwald]

He owned it when he found it. And once he was inaugurated president.

[Interviewer/Participant]

Yeah, he followed the rules. I'm not saying he followed the rules of the amendment. And also, you have no evidence of Joe Biden.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Joe Biden also was not convicted for any matters relating to Hunter Biden's business activities, even though most people in this room, as I've heard, and I would agree, think those activities were correct. Corrupt. There are lots of political corruption. Don't end up crossing the political line of corruption. Corruption is when you do things that look and have the potential to be untoward because the way you're monetizing and exploiting your political power, which is supposed to be in service of the public for your own personal wealth, how do

[Interviewer/Participant]

you have proof that he did this out of interest of the American public? What we know who should be indicted. Somebody should be indicted.

[John Regalato]

Right?

[Interviewer/Participant]

If there's corruption, who should it be? Donald Trump Jr. Eric Trump.

[Glenn Greenwald]

There's a lot of corruption. I think it's corrupt. When the pharmaceutical lobby goes to members of Congress and says, well, donate $100,000 to your political campaign or spend $100,000

[Interviewer/Participant]

on your life in exchange for this.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But it's not criminal. But it's not criminal. It's not criminal to do. And so there's all kinds of corruption, unfortunately, in our system that has been legalized.

[Interviewer/Participant]

Okay, so we both agree. Trump didn't break the rules. He gave the. He gave the company based on.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I think. I think we need to. We need an investigation to see exactly what happened. But based on what we know in the public, just the mere fact that Trump is creating a company, that Trump is creating a company four days before he's in, he's been massively enriched. He's been massively Enriched.

[Interviewer/Participant]

During his first presidency, he actually. His net worth actually went lower than when he originally was inaugurated in 2017.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's, like, about three times greater now than it was when he sought the presidency in 2016.

[Interviewer/Participant]

Yeah, because inflation happens. Time goes on.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And also because he got billions of dollars on the Persian Gulf during his term, when he's closest.

[Interviewer/Participant]

During his term. During his term, from January 2017 to January 2021, Donald Trump's net worth went down. During the Biden administration, his net worth went up, most likely because of inflation, because the Democrats were rampant with printing money.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Serious question. Just imagine a president, a Democratic president, that's not Donald Trump. Four days before they're inaugurated as president, they create a new company, and into that company flows hundreds of billions of dollars, or billions of dollars, billions of dollars from the very countries that will be most affected by that president's foreign policy. Policy that wouldn't concern you at all. You don't think there's anything.

[Military Veteran Participant]

Well, I could have a concern about

[Interviewer/Participant]

suspicion, but I'm not going to make a claim that he's corrupt. And that's the claim that you're making

[Glenn Greenwald]

right now, because everything that Trump has done since then has benefited those very countries that enriched his family so greatly with billions of dollars in personal wealth.

[Interviewer/Participant]

So everything that is money.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And not only that, but the Saudi investment.

[Interviewer/Participant]

But the Iran war negatively affects the uae, Right? And Donald Trump somewhat thrilled with the

[Glenn Greenwald]

Iran war, as people say.

[Interviewer/Participant]

Really, they're having. They're having. They're having shit fall in their cities. They're having shrapnel fall.

[Glenn Greenwald]

UAV hates Iran. They're encouraging Iran, they're encouraging Trump to continue. They want regime change. They despise Iran. So do the Saudis. This war is done. Trump would never have done this war without those very countries with whom he's closest, which coincidentally, has also poured billions of dollars in personal wealth into his family. If that isn't corruption, I don't know what is. And all of you thought that what Hunter Biden did, which was on a much, much smaller scale, you all thought that was corruption. I did, too, because I'm actually consistent. I don't change my principles based on which party. Isn't all. It's the same exact transaction, only as Andy McCarthy, said, the longtime conservative prosecutor, in order to compare Trump's kids and Biden's kids, you have to add two zeros to what Trump's kids are doing.

[John Regalato]

All right, let's pause there. We've run out of time.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Thank you. Good talk to you. My final surrounding claim is bombing Iran is not in the American people's interests.

[John Regalato]

If you'd like to debate this claim, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Trump Supporter]

Hi, Glen.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hey, how are you? Good.

[Trump Supporter]

Good to meet you. So I think in talking about this conflict or war, the things that we have to establish is what each side has lost. So in my estimation. You're welcome to jump in. I think the US has lost about 40 to $50 billion. We've lost about 14 servicemen, which I think is the greatest loss that we've had. And beyond that, we haven't lost a lot. What Iran has lost is their entire military, their entire navy. They have lost half their leaders and a lot of money along the way. So in my estimation, we're winning this war. And the reason why we're fighting the war is because a thousand Americans have been killed by Iran in the last 50 years.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Have they lost? Has Iran. You mentioned the losses. Has Iran lost any civilians?

[Trump Supporter]

Yeah, I'm sure that's how war works.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Like, for example, on the. That's how war works. Like on the first day, we vaporized 170 young Iranian schoolgirls bombing an elementary school. Yeah. I think. Does that weigh into the calculation of all.

[Trump Supporter]

I think it's very clear that every single war, there are civilian casualties. There's never been a war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But that you have to weigh that. That's one reason why we shouldn't fight wars. Right. Because innocent people die in them. Life created by GO is extinguishing.

[Trump Supporter]

I would say if you're trying to be America first, which is the claim that you made, you should prioritize your own citizens and servicemen over the people of other countries.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay. Because I was hearing a lot, probably more than any other argument before the start of the war, that the reason we had to go to war is because the Iranian people were massacring their own citizens, and we had to go and protect them and liberate them and bring them. So that creates a democracy. Is that a goal of the war? How does that weigh in with America first?

[Trump Supporter]

So absolutely, that's part of the war. The reason why Donald Trump chose to take the time that he did to go into Iran is because the fact that the people. People were ready to stand behind the US Government in that.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So regime change is part of the war?

[Trump Supporter]

I think regime change would be the best case scenario of the war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes. No, but is it a goal of the war? Like, when you start a war, you have goals, like you said?

[Trump Supporter]

Yeah, I gave a reason for the

[Glenn Greenwald]

goal which is that, like, they've done bad things in the past.

[Trump Supporter]

I have no problem.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What about admitting that it's one of the goals?

[Trump Supporter]

I have no problem admitting that is one of the goals.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Is that war. Has that goal been built?

[Trump Supporter]

We are currently five weeks into the war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, I know, I'm just, I'm asking.

[Trump Supporter]

It has not.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We're actually in our six full week. But has that six weeks?

[Trump Supporter]

No, that has not been accomplished yet.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Do you think that we're on our way to accomplishing the fall of the Iranian regime and that the American, American government considers that to be one of the ongoing goals?

[Trump Supporter]

I think it is very possible that could happen. I think it is the least likely goal. I still think that the US should pursue that goal.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But if we end up in this war, we are currently in a two week ceasefire where there is no regime change. Where the current Iranian power structure, the Revolutionary Guard and everyone else continues to govern Iran. Will that have been a successful war goal?

[Trump Supporter]

Absolutely. We've lost 14 servicemen, bless their hearts, but they chose to do that and they were very brave and beautiful doing so. We have decimated their military.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, no, I just want to focus on this because I'm just confused because you were saying of goals, for sure, you were saying, we do.

[Trump Supporter]

We can achieve four or five.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Fantastic. But I think what you said is so important, which is we're America first. Right. That's the movement that I thought that Donald Trump was creating that made me interested in the movement. And so you began by saying, oh, it really doesn't matter about these 170 schoolgirls, because we have to focus on Iran lives, not Iranians. No, that is what you said.

[Trump Supporter]

No, I'm saying that is every single war we do this moral grandstanding where we say, all these civilians, civilians died. I do think it's horrible that civilians died. I absolutely do. But I think it's worse for the American government to prioritize anybody outside of America. We've had over a thousand.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, so then killed by the Iranian regime. How does bringing freedom and democracy to the Iranian people help the American people? Whose interests you say should be first?

[Trump Supporter]

Because the current regime has killed over a thousand Americans. If it's a different regime, hopefully that will not be the case.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But what if they're as tyrannical but pro American? Is that fine?

[Trump Supporter]

What, like we could say what if about.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, no, no, because I, I think that's so. Because we prop up dictatorships throughout that region. We don't care about democracy or bringing freedom to people. We prop up the worst, most savage dictatorship in Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Bahrain because we don't care about liberating people around the world. So I just want to get a sense from you, for what is your goal? Is it a pro American dictatorship like we used, like we installed previously?

[Trump Supporter]

It's very clear that the goal is if there is a regime change, it will be by the Iranian people. That's why Trump chose to do it when he did it.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Is it our goal? Is it a war goal?

[Trump Supporter]

That is a goal, but there are tiers of goals, obviously.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, so if we don't end up changing the culture, government, will that be a goal that is failed or unfulfilled?

[Trump Supporter]

Yeah, I've got no problem saying that.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, four out of five. No problem.

[John Regalato]

We got a pause there. You've been voted out by the majority.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Good. Talk to you guys.

[Trump Supporter]

Talk to you.

[Questioning Participant]

First of all, I was flabbergasted to find out you're Jewish.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[Questioning Participant]

Why does Iran need a 60% enriched uranium for?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Iran never had 60% enriched uranium. When the Iran deal was in place and there were IAEA inspectors all throughout those Iranian facilities, when President President Trump nullified the deal, destroying the obligation of Iran to have inspectors and 24 hour surveillance, they decided that they needed protection because now they no longer had a deal in place, they knew they could be threatened by Israel or the United States at any time. And if I were the Iranian leadership, I think the one thing the Iranian leadership did that was probably their biggest mistake is that they didn't develop a nuclear weapon because we've created a world in which we tell other countries, either you get nuclear weapons and we won't mess with you like North Korea. So you're looking for the North Korean.

[Questioning Participant]

You're looking for the North Korea, Korea model.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's what we're looking for. I'm saying if I were Iran, or we tell the world, if you don't have nuclear weapons, we'll invade you and bomb you anytime.

[Questioning Participant]

Would Iran use a nuclear weapon if they had one?

[Glenn Greenwald]

No. Why would they? There would be instant immediate suicide. And we're told, and we're told that Iran.

[Questioning Participant]

It's not suicide, it's martyrdom to them. It's jihad.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, then why didn't. Why aren't they. Why aren't, why aren't they launching all of their. Why? I know that.

[Questioning Participant]

Why are they not launching? What?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Why aren't they on. No, no, you got. Let me talk. You said why? Why aren't they. Why are they that they wanted suicide. Every single time that the Israelis in the United States have attacked Iran in the past five years, which is many. And even before that, they have been extremely restrained in their. They have been extremely restrained in their.

[Questioning Participant]

Okay, extremely restrained. How many times have you define Iran?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Extremely restrained.

[Questioning Participant]

Define who it is that is attacking. Is it Iran? Is it the proxies?

[Matt]

Are the proxies part of Iran?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Iran has an internationally recognized government at the UN that's recognized by all countries around the world. World. When I say Iran, that's who I mean. It's like Israel. The United States and Israel have proxies in Iran who are trying to overthrow the government, who were arming, who were training in order to overthrow the government. These peaceful protesters, a lot of them were actually armed and organized by Israel. 45,000 people that were killed is the number 30 or 40 or 45.

[Questioning Participant]

Well, from right. What we hear right now is 45,000. But here's what I tell you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's the number I hear.

[Questioning Participant]

Iran felt ran out of body bags. Okay? Iran ran out of body bags in those two days. And a country of 90 million people usually has around 30,000 body bags in case of emergency. So that's what we're looking at right now. We have the numbers. The numbers vary from all over the place.

[Trump Supporter]

No, I want to ask you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'd like to ask you a question.

[Matt]

Sure.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Here in the United States, we had an insurrectionary movement that was armed by China and Russia, and they admitted it openly. We've armed an insurrectionary movement inside the United States. States because we want them to overthrow the American government. And they were going and attacking police officers, killing police officers, attacking government buildings. How do you think we would treat

[Questioning Participant]

those protesters to give you any kind of. Of, you know, pie in the sky? Because you have Hamas and you have Hezbollah.

[Glenn Greenwald]

This country. I'm talking about our country.

[Questioning Participant]

Okay. Do you not believe that these are attacking Americans as well?

[Glenn Greenwald]

The United States has been attacked many times. Can I answer your question? You asked me a question. Just let me answer. The United States has been attacked many times over the last 30 years with horrific terrorist attacks. Do you know how many of them have come from Iranian terrorists or Shia terrorists? The answer is zero. Zero. We have never been attacked on American soil. What terrorist attack. What terrorist attack happened from Iranian and Shia terrorists? Which terrorist attack? We've had nine, 11. The Boston massacre, the poll shooting, Fort Hood, attempted bombing in Times Square. These were all Sunni terrorists from the governments that we love, like Saudi Arabia are good.

[Questioning Participant]

And Shia Shiites are you Know, you

[Glenn Greenwald]

know there's a difference between Iran and the Arab countries, right?

[Questioning Participant]

Completely.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So I'm asking. Violence from Iran. We're talking about the Iranian threat. So how many terrorist attacks have come from Iran or from Shia terrorists on the United States soil, On United States? Zero. Right.

[Questioning Participant]

That's not zero. No, it's less because the proxies are considered part of Iran.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Which, Which Iranian proxies have attacked the United States homeland? How many Americans have died?

[Questioning Participant]

And do you not consider the barracks over?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Well, we'll get to that. I'm talking about the home homeland.

[Questioning Participant]

Oh, so it has to be in the homeland forever.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah. That's generally what governments are supposed to secure and protect.

[Questioning Participant]

So if, If Americans are killed, let's talk about. No, no, no, because you said America first. Right. So American lives matter.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Right. We shouldn't have. The reason we shouldn't have troops over protecting Israel is because we put them in harm's way. But I'm asking about the American homeland. Has Iran attacked the American homeland through asymmetrical bombing, through terrorist attack, through guerrilla warfare, anything? Why can't you just answer that?

[Questioning Participant]

Because the fact that you're blind to me.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Can you answer that? Just please answer that. That.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Yes.

[Glenn Greenwald]

When, when, when did that happen?

[Questioning Participant]

I don't have the exact.

[Glenn Greenwald]

If anyone has any examples of terrorist attacks that came from Iranian or Shia terrorists, please come up.

[Questioning Participant]

Iranians control the Middle east through their proxies, through the Houthis, through Hezbollah, through

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hamas, and we control the Middle east through our proxy, which is Israel.

[Questioning Participant]

So Israel is a proxy of, of the US right now?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Questioning Participant]

So. So we're not an ally, we're a proxy.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, we gotta pause there.

[Questioning Participant]

Tell me why the ceasefire needs to include.

[John Regalato]

You've been voted out by the majority. We gotta pause there.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Thanks. Hey, how are you? Good to meet you.

[Young Male Supporter]

Good to meet you, too. I think bombing Iran is absolutely in the American people's interest because they've been a problem for 47 years. And I think we. I think what Trump is doing is he realized an opportune time where their economy, like the real, means absolutely nothing. Their terror proxies are no longer deterrent. Hezbollah and Hamas have been absolutely desperate, decimated since October 7th. And a desperate attempt. They murdered 30 plus thousand civilians in the streets and their uranium. 30 plus thousand? According to hospital records, 32,060% uranium enrichment. So I think Trump is looking right now and saying, we don't know what the next administration is going to do. We could have Democrats that might unfreeze Their assets again, go back into the jcpoa. This is an opportune time where they're like the weakest they're going to be in the whole existence. So we should end this, this now.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, I think it's. I want to talk about that. I do. I just want to ask you, and I'm not trying to be personal in any way, but I do think it's an interesting phenomenon that for centuries when countries wanted to go to war and people said, yeah, let's go to war, the big test was, are you willing to risk your own life in the war that you think is so important to defend your country's interests? You seem like a young guy to me. Have you ever thought about going and fighting in this war that you're cheering on?

[Young Male Supporter]

I mean, I've thought about joining the military before. I don't know about this war specifically, but that's what makes them heroes. They put themselves in dangerous situations.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I'm asking that because. Because as I said earlier, we are a country that constantly fights wars. It's extremely aberrational for other countries on the planet, including very powerful ones like China, as I said before, that has grown so significantly because they know that war is not a way that you protect your national interests, but you undermine them. But we are so eager, so it's so easy for us to say, oh yeah, go fight that war. Go up these people. Or a global superpower, of course we're dealing with. China's a global superpower as well and doing infinitely better than the United States by so many metrics because of the. Go ask Latin American and African countries with whom they're dealing more and who they prefer to deal with, China or the United States, and they will tell you that the United States is a bully country that runs the world through military force and China isn't. That's one of the problems that we have. But Iran has not attacked the United States, has no ability to attack the United States. A moral country only goes to war and blows up elementary schools. If that country is actually attacking the United States, it's supposed to be a war of last resort. That is not the case here. We're blowing up their country, we're killing their people. We're threatening civilizational annihilation because Iran is not a threat to the United States.

[Young Male Supporter]

Death to America. Death to Israel. You don't see percent uranium enrichment. There's never been a country ever that for civilian uses with nuclear energy.

[Glenn Greenwald]

When, when the Iran deal, when the Iran deal was in place to what level. Did Iran enrich uranium?

[Young Male Supporter]

Want to know the thing about the Iran deal?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I asked that they kept it low.

[Young Male Supporter]

Want to know why? Because that had an expiration date. Meanwhile they got to have the reap all the benefits their unfrozen assets. So during and fund their project proxies.

[Glenn Greenwald]

This other thing about infrastructure, there's no limitations on. The United States has the right to just go around stealing other people's assets. Like hey, if they're going to use it for terrorism just sold and the United States decides out on their own we that's we're on a higher moral ground than Iran. Why are we pretend they're the same thing? Because I think that's very doubtful. I know people in the United States, some of them think that. But the rest of the world does not think this. The rest of the world thinks you've been voted out. We do have to be.

[John Regalato]

You've been voted out by the majority.

[Young Male Supporter]

Thank you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Thank you.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Okay, so I would like to clarify when you say that we are bombing Iran, I would like to say we are bombing the irgc. This has been some of the most highly discriminate warfare in U.S. history. No civilian infrastructure has been targeted except for one bridge. The school that you're talking about. There's some credible intel that that was a misfiring from the irgc. Just like with Al Shifa hospital in Gaza.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Nobody thinks that anymore. But good.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Okay. Even if.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But what about that bridge? What about that? So the bridge is used by. It was a bridge built to be used by civilians.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Okay. I'm not gonna get hung up on one bridge.

[Jewish American Participant]

Okay.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

For their dismantling.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But we're threatening to blow up all their power plants now too.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Okay. We are trying to get the Iranian regime which belligerent. Which is belligerent to the table. So this is what I view as in America's interest having an aggressive power in the region which seeks to export the revolution. Someone else already mentioned they are fighting a cosmic war. It's really hard to negotiate with terrorists whose own mortality is a welcome martyrdom. So the cost benefit analysis and the negotiation table with Shia extremists is going to look a lot different than any other nation around the world. So I view taking them out not only in America's interest, but in the interest of of our NATO allies.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Getting rid of the government?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

No, taking out the heads of the irgc. I'm not talking about regime change. And Trump actually has never stated that as the official objective of this war,

[Glenn Greenwald]

but he did tell the Washington Post that freeing the Iranian people was the main important goal.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

It will be yours to take. No, I'm saying that is a positive externality. That is not the war aim. There's a difference between a positive externality and a war aim and that is what president stated.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Do you know the Washington Post interview I'm talking about? Are you denying that something you hadn't read, Glenn? I know. I just want to encourage people to

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

go and don't insult my intelligence in the point I'm making by myopically focusing

[Glenn Greenwald]

on one Washington Post. I think I take the President President seriously when he says this is what one my most important goal is going

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

forward with Iran out the IRGC's infrastructure. Again that's not what he said but okay infrastructure and again he's never said regime change. He said it will be for the Iranians.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Is the IRGC still in power?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Well then you're acknowledging the great success of this military campaign. If you're saying that they're not in power.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, no they are. That's why this is a great and so you're I, I, I asked several people now the goal of this war or the goals of this war. What do you consider those to be the main objective?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

The primary objective of this war is to take out the IRGC sees offensive military capabilities which is not just a nuclear weapon. It can also be ballistic missiles which can reach the interior of our NATO allies in Europe which they didn't know before the start of this operation.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We're currently negotiating with Iran.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

What are you waiting for? What's the alternative Glenn? You want them to hit a NATO allied country and then we're in a larger scale war. Is that a positive alternative to you?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Israel has a huge amount of nuclear of a new huge nuclear stockpile. I'm not even talking about nuclear and there are tons of countries that have

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

intercontinental they're not belligerent actors who are fighting a cosmic war and aren't deterred

[Glenn Greenwald]

by their this cosmic war. Israel is fighting a cosmic war.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

They are not fighting a cosmic war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes they are. Yes they are fighting an ethnic religious freaks. The people who run Israel are religious and political fanatics.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Prescription and not be fighting a cosmic war. If they were fighting a cosmic war godly exists today.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Let me ask you a question. If the Iranians are these extremely irrational people who seek martyrdom and want to die, why are we now negotiating an attempt to to negotiate it into this war? Why were we able to diplomatically negotiate an Iran deal before? But you're saying they want to Die. They want to die, but they want to die.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Many of them have died.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But you're saying they want that. Why would there be Iranian officials currently negotiating into the war with the United

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

States when you're saying these are religious

[Glenn Greenwald]

fanatics who want to die? Why would they want the war to end then?

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Because the end of the regime is going to come if they can't get to the negotiation table. And that's a certainty. So let's get back to why this is good for America and Europe. They have ballistic missiles that can reach the interior of our NATO allies, the

[Glenn Greenwald]

rest of the Middle east, nuclear armed NATO allies.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

You're going to do that, Focus on Israel when it comes to.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I didn't mention Israel.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

I'm talking about this entire debate. You have the entire Gulf states, you have Saudi Arabia, have Kuwait, Bahrain, the uae. All of these countries also benefit. So you're trying to myopically focus and propagate Israel as a motive for this war.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I thought we were America first. Why? So now we're fighting a war for Persian Gulf tyrannies.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

What is your alternative?

[Glenn Greenwald]

So the alternative is to.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Because it's their money you don't agree with. Responding to provocation of the Iranian regime.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I think the Iran deal worked very well. Not to get. I think the Iran deal worked very well. If you ask me, my solution, I can only tell you if you stop talking for like three seconds. Just breathe a little bit. My solution is that you can't stop talking. My solution is the diplomatic solution that we had from 2015 until 2018 when the Iranians were allowing IAEA inspectors into every single nuclear facility from 2015 to 2018, that the Iranians had not enriched beyond 3.67%. The Prime Minister of the country that you seem to really like, which is Israel, has said for 30 years, is that the Iranians are seconds away, minutes away, weeks away from getting a nuclear weapon. For 30 years the Israelis have told. Americans have told Americans this, and yet they never have Tulsi Gabbard, who runs Tulsi Gabbard, who's not an Iranian, but the American Director of National Intelligence, goes, this is what we all. I think you're probably too young to have, have lived through the Iraq War. But anyone who stood up and opposed the Iraq War, the worst disaster in American history of the last hundred years, was told you're a propagandist for Saddam Hussein. You're rooting for the terrorists in Iraq. It doesn't work. This is a bullshit tactic. I'm an American citizen. Saddam Hussein, I care about American. I'm not a Defender of Iran.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

14:41 to go and inspect their weapons capabilities. The Iranian regime has not done that. They kicked out the International Atomic Energy Agency only once.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The deal was invalidated by President Trump's good faith actors.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Why wouldn't they just let them stay?

[Glenn Greenwald]

They comply with their treaty that Israel refuses to sign, which is the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. Every country in the world except for Israel, India, Pakistan and South Sudan refuse to sign that deal. I want to understand Nuclear non proliferation deal. The IAEA inspectors are allowed to go in and Iran allowed far more, far more invasive capability.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

IA101. That when your adversary races to arms and increases their offenses. Capabilities, offensive capabilities, it's going to create a security dilemma.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's a madman mentality. Every country in the world is building arms. The idea that we're supposed to go and bomb every country that we're in conflict with because they build up their conventional weapon system.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

The difference is that

[John Regalato]

we got a pause. You've been voted out. All right, turn to your seat.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hello. How you doing?

[Trump Supporter]

I'm back.

[Matt]

So we're going to get into whether or not this is America First, I just want to start with one thing that you've been saying is that we fight wars at the behest of Israel, which is very important. So in Israel.

[Skeptical Participant]

I didn't say that.

[Matt]

No, you did. You said that we fight wars for Israel or we come into Israel's defense in every single war. That's what you said. But let me respond to that. So when it comes to this, I

[Glenn Greenwald]

need to tell you what I said just so you don't start arguing against the point.

[Matt]

That is what you have said. But sure, go ahead. Really quickly.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What I'm talking about, I think this war is for Israel. But I also know that every time Israel has wars, when they're having Iran shoot weapons at them, when they're stealing in from Syrian Lebanon, we deploy military assets to the Middle east, put our soldiers in harm's way to protect Israel in those wars.

[Matt]

Okay, that's inaccurate. I mean, the Iron Dome and the Arrow system specifically deal with ballistic missiles. And we also have bases in Jordan that also intercepts.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We didn't deploy American forces. No, we didn't. No, I want to, I want to.

[Matt]

Let me, Let me get my, Let me get my broader point in. Really?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, but I have a broader.

[Matt]

That's fine. Hold on. I have a broader point.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But you're so. What you said is so false.

[Matt]

Let me, let me, Let me make this Broader point. So you've made that general claim that we have been fighting these wars for Israel. Right. You've made this same claim for Iran.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, no, I think. I think Iran is a war for isra. I don't think other wars are for Israel.

[Matt]

So only Iran.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Correct. The only way we deploy our military forces to protect Israel. On top of all the money, do

[Matt]

we deploy our military forces to protect Bahrain and Qatar and Kuwait, where we have also military bases there.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Barely ever. Because they're not.

[Matt]

Barely.

[Glenn Greenwald]

They're not fighting war. They're not fighting war.

[Matt]

Israel was the number one country that was hit by Iran during, like, in terms of missiles.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You mean in the last three months since.

[Matt]

During the conflict. During the conflict. Conflict.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Currently, they've shot wars at a lot of bad, sunny.

[Matt]

Number one. Number one is Qatar. Number one is Qatar. Israel's like number three.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay.

[Matt]

Okay, great. And so our assets are there defending those countries as well, right?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, we have military.

[Matt]

Okay, great.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What did.

[Matt]

What did Bin Salman say in 2018 in reference?

[Glenn Greenwald]

2018 is a long time. What do you mean?

[Matt]

Well, you were mentioning things from the 80s and 90s. So I was just saying.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But the Saudis and the Iranians. The Saudis and Iranians have had.

[Matt]

I wonder. I wonder where that came from. But hold on. Bin Salman said that the irg.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The last time you were here, you gave me. No, the last time you were here, you gave.

[Matt]

Avoid this. No, because you know what he said?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Just. I'll tell you what he said.

[Matt]

2018, bin Salman said the Ayatollah.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Guys, guys, you have to. We gotta.

[John Regalato]

We gotta have an exchange, right? Glenn? Let's. Let's.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Let's figure it out.

[John Regalato]

Let's hear from Glenn for a second, and then let's get back into the 2018. We're starting with Glenn.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, you asked me the question about the situation between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a brutal, savage dictatorship that the United States props up because of religious conflict, Sunni versus Shia. The Saudis and the Iranians have a lot of tension that has been actually decreasing. But because the United States uses Saudi Arabia to attack Iran, Iran has been shooting missiles at military bases in Saudi Arabia.

[Matt]

That's not true. So it really stems from the 2011 Yemeni Civil War. And I mean, we can go to Yemeni history where there's communists in the south and the north that was more pro Western or more pro capitalist and so on. But specifically, the number one funder of the Houthis has been Iran.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Correct.

[Matt]

And the Houthis have. Have Obviously, they've taken over the capital. They've been undermining the official government. And that's why Saudi had to get involved, to protect their own airspace and their own defenses as well, because the Houthis were launching missiles into Saudi Arabia. And who funds that? The IRGC in 2018. Bin Salman specifically said that. Who was the Hitler of the Middle east in 2018? Or even still now, you could say the Ayatollah. That's what he specifically.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's so funny that you think Mohammed bin Salman is the moral. The moral arbiter of the Middle East. Mohammed bin Salman is the worst monster on the planet.

[Matt]

Say he's the worst monster on the planet.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Is he? Is he a monster?

[Matt]

Hold on.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Is he a monster?

[Matt]

Sure, sure. Hold on. $142 billion arms deal. $142 billion arms deal we signed with them last year. I also believe we signed a 1 trillion dollar AI deal. So in terms of economic benefits that we have in strategic asset benefits. Yeah, it's very good, right?

[Glenn Greenwald]

And it's funny. It's funny when you say you love our assets.

[Matt]

It's funny when you talk about our assets. That's really funny.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What is the point? Can you get to the point?

[Matt]

You can actually. Yeah, sure, I can get to it.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What is the point?

[Matt]

If you want me. Great, I'll get to it. It's. Let me finish. So in reference to our assets specifically, let's talk about South Korea. So since 1950, we spent about $4 billion annually on South Korea. So that's what, 76 years we've been doing that for. That's $304 billion. You don't talk about that. How many. Where is the number one?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Talk about that.

[Matt]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. What is the number one country where we have.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What is exactly?

[Matt]

What is the number one? Because you're, because you're acting as if this is an Israel. Only thing I have actually.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We're not talking about Israel.

[Matt]

No, no. You did say this prophecy was in

[Glenn Greenwald]

reference to Israel bombing Iran is not an American people's interest. You have anything about that?

[Matt]

You've been making this purely about Israel.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I don't think it's about Israel. Yes, you do. Yes, you have.

[Matt]

Why are you so scared to debate the truth? You've been making this about Israel.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Let me ask you the point.

[Matt]

Are we at the point of Israel?

[Glenn Greenwald]

The point that I picked, that number two that I chose is President Trump is subservient to the Israel lobby. That's a different problem here. And talked about this for 20 minutes. I'm not afraid to talk about, about Israel. There are other reasons why the United States is in war with Iran besides Israel. Let me give you a dichotomy. Let me give you a diagnostic. Okay.

[John Regalato]

Okay, we gotta pause there. I just wanna give Matt one word answer. Do you think it's in the United States best interest?

[Matt]

I have one question for you.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I just.

[John Regalato]

We're out of time on this prompt, so I just want to hear one word answer to his prompt. Do you think it's in the United States best interest to bomb Iran?

[Matt]

Absolutely.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yes.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Okay, great.

[John Regalato]

I want to do a quick, quick poll. Raise your flag if you would support if the United States sent ground troops to Iran. Raise them high just so we can get a count of flags.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Raise your flag if you, if the Americans sent ground troops to Iran, that you would go right now and sign up to be part of that ground invading force.

[Military Veteran Participant]

I did for 12 years.

[John Regalato]

Thank you. Thank you guys so much. For our last portion, I'm gonna ask you to look around the circle and select somebody who you want to return to this chair and debate for a final 10 minutes based on their claim.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You're the one.

[Trump Supporter]

Hi again, Glenn.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Hello.

[Trump Supporter]

My surrounded claim is that Donald Trump is the best president of my lifetime.

[Glenn Greenwald]

All right, So I wanna ask you what your metrics are. Just name the two or three most important metrics. Okay.

[Trump Supporter]

Yeah, I would just say America first, being prioritizing of the American. I would say the second metric to me would be, frankly, the economy, which I know that kind of ties into America first, but I think the economy is the most important thing in opinion polls to Americans. And then the third is foreign policy, which we've talked about today, which is kind of a personal note for me. I think he's been the best on foreign policy.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So let's start with the third one, just because what we've been talking about. Now, let's have a question about that. So as I said earlier, what though I had been long associated with the left, prior to Trump's emergence on the political scene, what interests interested me probably most about his political, his approach to this new political movement, to this kind of new Republican politics, was this very aggressive critique of prior Republican orthodoxy and foreign policy, particularly the Iraq War, but other kinds of regime change efforts in the first term. I thought he adhered to that because as I said earlier, he was the first president in decades not to start a new American war. Do you think that there has been a full scale alignment in the Second term, even even though he focused on Yemen and bombing the Houthis, which President Biden had done. Then he moved to arming and funding Israel and its destruction of Gaza and its stealing of land in Syria and Lebanon. Then on to Venezuela, talking about overthrowing the government of Cuba, putting a new regime change in Cuba and also this war in Iran. Can you really say with all of that in 14 months that he has focused most on America?

[Trump Supporter]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that the hallmark of his foreign policy is that he makes conflicts quick. And so I don't know if I can say this about the other people in the room, but for, for me, if the conflict in Iran doesn't end in the next six months, then I would consider that to be a failure. I don't think any of us should look at Donald Trump and just think he is my undying loyalty. I have full trust in him. But the things that you all listed there are quick things that have happened and I think that has always been a consistency for Donald Trump. For me personally.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Did the Yemen bomb accomplish anything?

[Trump Supporter]

I think anytime that we're taking out terrorists and anti America people, I think that is a pro thing to do for people.

[Glenn Greenwald]

How do you know we killed terrorists? Do you know the people who died in Yemen from the that bombing? Do you know their names? No, no.

[Trump Supporter]

Personally I don't know.

[Glenn Greenwald]

So how do you know they're terrorists?

[Trump Supporter]

I think that Donald Trump has credible intelligence from our intelligence apparatus that tells him these things.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's what finally you just blindly assume that if we kill people they're probably terrorists?

[Trump Supporter]

I assume that. I do not know as much as the intelligence apparatus.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Is that the same assumption when Biden's president, when Obama's president go, go kill people and we'll just assume they're terrorists?

[Trump Supporter]

I think prolonged conflicts are an indication that that intelligence, intelligence is not being acted upon.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Like President, President Obama fought a war in Libya for it lasted about four months, five months, took out the government. The head of Libya, Muammar Gaddafi, who used to be a US ally was sodomized and raped to death in the streets. Yeah, I don't think that was a quick war. Did you support that war?

[Trump Supporter]

No, because that was anti American. When, when we're trying to depose regimes or peoples or terrorists that are anti American, we do it quickly. Fantastic. Every single time.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But Gaddafi, there's a design. He was accused of having taken down a plane, a Pan Am jet that killed 260 people, which was one of the reasons why the United States took out the War. I just, I totally understand.

[Trump Supporter]

I think my problem is. So you're pointing to all of these things. I think at the same time, I can point to all these things. Venezuela, Maduro being taken out that were absolutely fantastic. The consistent through all of Trump's presidencies is that it's quick.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The first, the last part of Trump's first term in 2020 was dominated overwhelmingly by the COVID epidemic, in which he ushered in a vaccine that became very controversial during that 2020 year. There were all kinds of very severe lockdowns. He kept Anthony Fauci in place, the COVID infrastructure in place. Do you think his management of COVID was good?

[Trump Supporter]

Well, I would not say that his management of COVID was perfect. But again, my claim.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Was it good? Was it good?

[Trump Supporter]

No, I wouldn't say it was even good. But my claim was that he is the best president of this century. And I think everyone here and I think yourself would agree that Biden handled it much worse than Donald Trump. Did you agree with that?

[Glenn Greenwald]

That I thought Donald Trump's handling it was terrible and I thought Biden's handling was much worse.

[Trump Supporter]

I mean, Donald Trump would not have prolonged that in the same way. Can we agree on that?

[Glenn Greenwald]

The worst, the worst lockdowns happened under President Trump in 2012.

[Trump Supporter]

That was also right when the virus happened and nobody knew what was happening.

[Glenn Greenwald]

There were huge numbers. There were huge numbers of people throughout 2020 who are protesting on the grounds that those lockdowns were extremely repressive. We weren't even allowed to go to our relatives funerals. No, but that was a. For me, me, that was an extremely dark mark on the first Trump administration.

[Trump Supporter]

I totally agree. I do not defend those things that Donald Trump did, but Biden was much, much worse.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Well, what did Biden do with the COVID The VAX mandate?

[Trump Supporter]

The VAX mandate that nothing that Donald Trump did was ever pushing a VAX mandate on the American people.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I mean, there were people, including in the military in 2020, who were told that they had to get the COVID mandate, who were told they had to get the COVID 19 or face termination.

[Trump Supporter]

So I disagree on that.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That.

[Trump Supporter]

But Biden did it to the entire country. So again, my claim is not that Donald Trump didn't make mistakes. My claim is that he is the best president that we have had so far. So my question for you really quick, because we're more on Covid here. Do you think that had Donald Trump been in office longer during COVID that he would have prolonged those bad policies like Biden did for literally years after.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's really hard to say hypothetically, but I know that the. But he was out of office. But I know that the lockdowns and the, the empowerment of Fauci as this supreme authoritarian leader who basically whose pronouncements couldn't be questioned, that all was done by Donald Trump. I know we all wanna forget that because a lot of us think that that was very bad. I don't wanna blame that on Joe Biden. But Donald Trump was the birther, the genesis.

[Trump Supporter]

Yeah. And so he's come out and completely come out against that, and Biden has not. So here's my question to you. There's only four presidents who've been president this century. Who do you think is best, better than Donald Trump?

[Glenn Greenwald]

I actually think that if you judge by the metrics on which I focus, but also on the impact.

[Trump Supporter]

And what are those, just so I can understand?

[Glenn Greenwald]

Well, definitely, I would just say putting the American people first, above the establishment, above global institutions, above the military industrial complex, all the things that Trump basically promised to do, focus on the working class. I think that in a lot of ways, in the second term, Donald Trump's second term is so different from his first. And the second term, I think, is

[Trump Supporter]

arguably the worst first term is the best of version of the presidency that we've had this century.

[Glenn Greenwald]

It's just, again, it's just so such bad competitors. But, yeah, I would probably rank his in, in the century. I would rank his first term near the top.

[Trump Supporter]

So we're in agreement.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Yeah, I don't. I told you that. I said that from the beginning. I said that from the beginning, that I was an enthusiast for what Trump promised, for the Trump movement, for the America first movement. I actually believed in that. That's what I want.

[Trump Supporter]

So here's my question, since we have more time. Glenn Press. President Trump's presidency, his second term. We're only about a year and a half in.

[Glenn Greenwald (alternate label)]

Right.

[Trump Supporter]

And so are you willing to change your opinion if, for instance, we talked about Iran earlier? Let's say the Iran war finishes up here in the next month and there is no regime change, but we did completely take out their military. We did take out half the irgc.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We haven't taken. We have. They have thousands of ballistic missiles left.

[Trump Supporter]

Are you willing. My main point is, are you willing to say you were wrong on Donald Trump and say, oh, I was looking at the first 18 months of the presidency, but the last second term actually

[Glenn Greenwald]

turned out pretty good? Well, I'll ask you the same Question. If Trump's presidency worsens, you'll change your mind, too? Obviously, I will change my mind based on whatever happens. But the problem is this war is going to have lingering and enduring effects on the economy, on gas prices. The Iranians are not gonna give up the control of the Strait of Hormuz. They're gonna continue to charge money for that, which they didn't do previously. Lots. And also, you have.

[Trump Supporter]

In one path, you just said you

[Glenn Greenwald]

have to account the people who are dead as well. I think that the funding and arming of the destruction of Gaza, which Joe Biden did for two years and then Trump did for eight, eight months, is also something that is one of the worst crimes of the century. So, yeah, I hope it gets better. But the problem is, and I assume you agree with this, it's extremely likely. We don't know the future, but it's extremely likely Democrats are gonna take over the House at least, and maybe the Senate. Yeah. And I think a big part of that is Trump's focus, not on what he promised to be on.

[Trump Supporter]

I think that's why Donald Trump is the greatest president of the century, is that he's looking at the second term and thinking. I'm not thinking about the midterms. I'm not thinking about the politics, about

[Glenn Greenwald]

the promises I'm going to do to the people.

[Trump Supporter]

Absolutely not.

[Matt]

He.

[Trump Supporter]

As we talked about today, he has talked about this since the 1980s. He has always been anti Iran, and he's always made it very clear.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Why didn't he do it in the first term?

[Trump Supporter]

Because, as I spoke about earlier in our previous section, because the Iranian people themselves have come out and are finally willing to actually go against their.

[Glenn Greenwald]

We don't fight wars to liberate people. We don't fight wars because the population wants to. But it is completely different when their

[Trump Supporter]

own people are supporting it. My main point is this.

[Glenn Greenwald]

How do you know? Let me ask that, because it's so fascinating to me when people say the Iranian people want to be bombed, they want to have their bridges blown up, they want to have.

[Trump Supporter]

I'm just.

[Glenn Greenwald]

How do you know what the Iranian people want? There are 96 million of them. Have you been there? Do you speak?

[Trump Supporter]

No, I've just seen the videos of. In Tehran, where there are thousands of them cheering in the streets.

[Glenn Greenwald]

There are thousands. There are thousands of. There are thousands of Israelis today in Tel Aviv protesting against war with Iran.

[Trump Supporter]

90% of Israelis support the war, and they have to.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I know, but. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're Right. You're right.

[Trump Supporter]

Taken on 37 point casualties in the civilian population and they support it.

[Glenn Greenwald]

This is my point though, is that you cannot judge what an entire population wants by the fact in the streets. I don't have to judge. I'm looking. You can see in the streets in the United States huge numbers of people marching against Donald Trump and calling him a monarch and a Hitler. But you wouldn't say that. That means that that's representative of American public opinion. How do you, who never visited Iran, who doesn't speak the language, who I bet knows very little about Iranian history. How do you know what the majority of 96 million Iranians want when it comes to whether we want them, they want us bombing their country.

[Trump Supporter]

I know there are so I, I, we don't have data in the last few weeks, but I know there are journalists that have gone there. They have, they have created public opinion polls asking who supports the IRGC and who does not. It always overwhelmingly comes out that they.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You were the one who told me that you weren't that bothered by the blowing up of that school. Because we should prioritize American lives over Russian lives.

[Trump Supporter]

We were talking about the timing of this. We're talking about the timing of what? Why Trump did this. And I think the reason why he's done this is because the Iranian people will make it easier. The same is true for Israel, by the way. Israel has taken way more casualties than the US and the reason why this is America first is because Donald Trump is able to see that Israel and the Iranian people are willing to do the work so that we take on less casualties.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And that's been challenged. Have you seen pro government protests in Iran?

[Trump Supporter]

No, I have not.

[Glenn Greenwald]

You haven't? You should go check. Because they're gigantic.

[Trump Supporter]

No.

[Glenn Greenwald]

And yes. And the reason for that is because every population, every population unites behind their leaders when they're attacked by a foreign country. Tribal instinct, that happens. George Bush was a hated president. He got elected nine, 11 happened. All Democrats, liberals, people on the left, for the most part united behind George Bush. It's a tribal instinct that when you're attacked by a foreign power, you knight.

[Trump Supporter]

I just want to make one more point on the casualties because we talked about that. We've taken 14 casualties since the war started. Something that Donald Trump did towards the first term that you really liked was that he brought us out of Afghanistan.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Well, Biden oversaw the withdraw, but Trump negotiated.

[Trump Supporter]

He started that during that time. Just during the Trump administration.

[Glenn Greenwald]

True. Biden over Afghanistan.

[Trump Supporter]

It's fine. My Main point is when Donald Trump was, when Donald Trump was withdrawing our troops from Afghanistan, we took over 200 casualties doing that. We've only taken 14 casualties doing that. And when I say casualty, I mean loss of life.

[Glenn Greenwald]

There's a lot more casualties.

[Trump Supporter]

Loss of life. We took hundreds when we were taking troops out of Afghanistan. What Donald Trump is doing right now is making it. And I think it's very hard. Heroic. He's making it so if a future president gets involved in Iran and puts boots on the ground, that, that we don't have to lose hundreds of people pulling them out again. And so I think what he's doing right now is absolutely heroic.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Heroic? What's heroic about sending other people to go fight wars?

[Trump Supporter]

I think it's absolutely heroic to say again, we've had a thousand Americans die in the last 50 years because Iran, Iran, Iranian terrorists and proxies have killed them.

[Glenn Greenwald]

They said the war is going to end without a regime change.

[Trump Supporter]

Well, I don't know if that's true. I don't think anyone does if it does.

[Glenn Greenwald]

But you said if it's without regime change.

[Trump Supporter]

The American people may or may not want the Iran conflict to happen, but he's willing. But he knows what happens when we do go into places like this. And he does not want to have to withdraw again. So that is why he is attacking the way he is. And we've taken far less casualties because of it.

[Glenn Greenwald]

The problem that he's gotten himself into is he has two options, both of which are very bad. Either we end the war now, great, we leave the regime in place. But they have thousands of. Let me just, let me just point. They have thousands of ballistic missiles still pointed at Israel, still able to reach the Gulf State. They still have control of the Strait of Hormuz. They're still able to, to, to charge for it, which wasn't, none of that was true prior to the war. They still have huge drones and drone making capacities. We've sunk a lot of their ships. We killed a bunch of their leaders. They're still running Iran.

[Trump Supporter]

The Iranian people still don't have Iranian propaganda.

[Glenn Greenwald]

What is Iranian propaganda?

[Trump Supporter]

The fact that they have complete ballistic missile.

[Glenn Greenwald]

That's not, that's U.S. intelligence assessments that are appearing in every single media outlet.

[Trump Supporter]

So now you support the intel like we, we got into this.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, you're, you're, you're telling. Oh, so I can't, I can't rely. What do you. When you are talking about how many missiles Iran has or what their military capability has, you can't rely on Iranian estimates. You can't rely on American intelligence assessment. Where do you get your information? What are you relying on? First telling me that they've been degraded greatly.

[Trump Supporter]

I'm relying on journalists. I'm relying on journalists. There's been the New York Times and the Washington Post.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Where do they get that information?

[Trump Supporter]

Yeah, it's possible they get it from US Intelligence.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Of course they do. So using the same source as I am.

[Trump Supporter]

I understand, but to act like the same ballistic missile capabilities exist right now, that.

[Glenn Greenwald]

No, they don't. It's been degraded. There's fewer events, thousands of them.

[Trump Supporter]

What is the downside on our side?

[Glenn Greenwald]

The downside is, is that we've, we've evaporated civilian life, including a bunch of young girls. And not only them, but at least like thousands of people in Iran, many of whom are civilians. We've lost their own soldiers. We spent billions and billions of dollars. We've made the world inferior. We've driven up gas prices for everybody in the world. Agreed. We've destabilized that region. We have no idea what's going to come next.

[Trump Supporter]

These are jihadists that go blow themselves up. This is not destabilizing the region.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Just some little game that you just.

[Trump Supporter]

No, it's not a game. Play and then you just leave it

[Glenn Greenwald]

alone as if you're not actually involved in the bomb. All right, great to play. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[John Regalato]

If you are MAGA and you watch this video, let us know if you support the United States actions in Iran. Thank you so much for watching. Tune in Wednesday for a follow up podcast and we'll see you next time.

[Glenn Greenwald]

I was really pleasantly surprised that pretty much universally people who were here were very connected to, engaged by, thoughtful of the topics we were discussing. Just made it much more pleasurable and enjoyable for me to do.

[Trump Supporter]

I think Glenn Greenwald is a very good debater. Everything he was saying about Qatar and the UAE and the financial interests that the Trump administration has with them, he's absolutely right.

[Pro-Trump Supporter]

Glenn, who seems to be anti corruption on both sides, skirts around the Qatar issue again when he talked about the Trump family's dealings in the Gulf states. There was a $5.5 billion deal that they did in Qatar and that's really conveniently left out because they exist within the axis of power that aligns with Iran.

[Glenn Greenwald]

Corruption doesn't get that much attention because people don't think that if they vote those people out, the other people will be less corrupt.

[Trump Supporter]

Trump, yeah, I think he's corrupt like every other politician. I just think he's far less corrupt than the Biden administration or any other alternative that we had going into this election.

[Matt]

I mean, I definitely think there's corruption. I don't think it's more than Joe Biden causally. Is it negative for us, like this company funding Trump? Is Trump doing something that's against America, American interest as well?

[Glenn Greenwald]

And the amount of money that the Trump family is monetizing and profiting from, it's shocking. And I do think when people hear it laid out, even Trump supporters who, you know, are willing to be critical of him, kind of take a second look and say, wow, that does actually bother me.

[John Regalato]

Don't forget to subscribe to Surrounded wherever

[Glenn Greenwald]

you get your podcast so that you

[John Regalato]

don't miss it episode. And if you want to watch the video version of Surrounded, subscribe to Jubilee on YouTube.