1 LGBTQ+ Activist vs 25 Conservatives (ft. Zander Moricz)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Surrounded - Episode 1: LGBTQ+ Activist vs 25 Conservatives (ft. Xander Moricz)

Introduction

In the inaugural episode of Surrounded, hosted by Jubilee Media, listeners are introduced to an intense and unfiltered debate format where a single guest faces off against twenty-five individuals holding opposing views. The first episode features Xander Moricz, an LGBTQ+ activist and Executive Director of Sea Alliance, as he engages in a series of one-on-one debates with conservative speakers. The primary focus revolves around the influence of LGBTQ+ activism versus conservative figures like Donald Trump and Elon Musk on young Americans.

Key Themes and Discussions

1. Influence and Grooming:

   • Xander Moricz’s Claim: Moricz asserts that Donald Trump and Elon Musk are more actively grooming young Americans than the LGBTQ+ community. He defines grooming as influential figures manipulating young minds to exploit them for power.
     • Quote: “[Donald Trump and Elon Musk] are proven to have been doing that with elementary, middle, and high school children...” (02:22)
   • Conservative Counterpoint: The conservative speaker challenges this by emphasizing that neither the LGBTQ+ community nor these figures are genuinely engaged in grooming, arguing instead that the LGBTQ+ community aims to save lives.
     • Quote: “No one's trying to influence the children except Donald Trump and Elon Musk.” (03:18)

2. Medical and Psychological Perspectives on Gender Affirming Care:

   • Xander’s Defense: He defends gender-affirming care, stating that it is life-saving for the vast majority of transgender youth, aligning with endorsements from major medical organizations.
     • Quote: “We see that transgender affirming care is life-saving care. And in 90% of those cases, that was life-saving care.” (04:29)
   • Conservative Skepticism: The conservative speaker challenges the medical consensus, citing studies that question the efficacy and long-term effects of puberty blockers and other gender-affirming treatments.
     • Quote: “There were studies that showed anxiety, depression, suicidality and suicide skyrocketed.” (20:08)

3. Impact of Affirmation and Representation:

   • Xander’s Argument: Moricz emphasizes that LGBTQ+ acceptance and representation lead to reduced rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide among young people.
     • Quote: “When we support and affirm LGBTQ+ acceptance, depression rates, anxiety rates, and suicidality rates go down significantly. 60%.” (33:35)
   • Conservative Rebuttal: The conservative speakers dispute these claims, suggesting that any increase in suicidality is due to broader societal issues rather than lack of LGBTQ+ affirmation.
     • Quote: “I don't agree that their suicidal rates and depression rise because people aren't affirming like gender.” (38:31)

4. Book Bans vs. Drag Queen Story Hours:

   • Xander’s Position: He argues that book bans are more dangerous as they lead to authoritarianism and restrict access to vital information, whereas drag queen story hours have no correlation with increased sexual violence.
     • Quote: “Book bans are worse than drag queens reading books.” (57:47)
   • Conservative Concerns: Conservatives express discomfort with drag queen story hours, labeling them as inappropriate and potentially sexualizing environments for children.
     • Quote: “Why are you having a person that's dressed up as a different gender reading to children?” (66:37)

5. Christian Doctrine and LGBTQ+ Rights:

   • Xander’s Interpretation: Moricz contends that Christianity’s core value is love, which should extend to affirming LGBTQ+ individuals, arguing that anti-LGBTQ+ policies contradict Christian and American values.
     • Quote: “The fundamental value of American and the fundamental value of Christianity is love. And anti LGBTQ policies are contradictory to both of those beliefs.” (54:58)
   • Conservative Perspective: Conservatives argue that certain Biblical interpretations condemn homosexual acts and that progressive Christian beliefs on LGBTQ+ issues represent a fundamental misunderstanding of scripture.
     • Quote: “A man cannot be with a man… that is perverted.” (50:56)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Xander Moricz:

  • “[Donald Trump and Elon Musk] are proven to have been doing that with elementary, middle, and high school children...” (02:22)
  • “We see that transgender affirming care is life-saving care. And in 90% of those cases, that was life-saving care.” (04:29)
  • “When we support and affirm LGBTQ+ acceptance, depression rates, anxiety rates, and suicidality rates go down significantly. 60%.” (33:35)
  • “Book bans are worse than drag queens reading books.” (57:47)
  • “The fundamental value of American and the fundamental value of Christianity is love. And anti LGBTQ policies are contradictory to both of those beliefs.” (54:58)

• Conservative Speaker:

  • “No one's trying to influence the children except Donald Trump and Elon Musk.” (03:19)
  • “There were studies that showed anxiety, depression, suicidality and suicide skyrocketed.” (20:08)
  • “Why are we doing drag?” (11:36)
  • “A man cannot be with a man… that is perverted.” (50:56)
  • “We're saying some gay people exist. Make sure you don't spit at them.” (40:39)

Conclusion and Insights

The episode of Surrounded delves deep into the contentious debates surrounding LGBTQ+ rights and their perceived impact on society, especially among the youth. Xander Moricz presents a robust defense of LGBTQ+ affirmation, emphasizing its life-saving benefits and alignment with Christian love principles. Conversely, conservative speakers challenge these notions, questioning the medical consensus and highlighting concerns about societal influences they deem harmful.

The dialogue underscores a fundamental divide in interpreting medical data, religious doctrines, and societal values. While Moricz advocates for evidence-based policies that support mental health and equality, the conservatives emphasize traditional values, parental rights, and skepticism towards the motivations of prominent figures in shaping youth perspectives.

Despite the polarized views, the episode exemplifies the podcast's commitment to fostering raw and unfiltered conversations, pushing listeners to grapple with complex and multifaceted issues without the confines of echo chambers.

Final Thoughts

Surrounded sets a precedent for its future episodes by tackling divisive topics head-on, encouraging empathy and understanding through rigorous debate. This first episode highlights the importance of dialogue in navigating the nuanced landscape of modern social issues, laying the groundwork for a community built on curiosity and meaningful conversation.

Transcript

[Conservative Speaker]

Participating in homosexual acts is inherently not loving because it's damaging. It violates natural law.

[Xander Morix]

It doesn't violate natural law. There are over 1000 species. Your body is not loved to have queer relationships. From Jubilee Media, this is surrounded where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreers. Today's guest is an LGBTQ activist, Xander Morix. He is the executive director of Sea alliance and today he will be debating 25 conservatives. Xander will debate the conservative conservatives one on one until they are voted out by their peers and replaced by someone new. Let's get into It. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more. Hey there travelers. Kaley Cuoco here. Sorry to interrupt your music. Great artist BT Dubs, but wouldn't you rather be there to hear it live? With Priceline, you can get out of.

[Conservative Speaker]

Your dreams and into your dream concert.

[Xander Morix]

They've got millions of travel deals to get you to that festival, gig, rave, sound bath or sonic experience you've been dreaming of. Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off flights. So don't just dream about that trip. Book it with Priceline. Go to your happy price, Priceline. My first claim is Donald Trump and Elon Musk are grooming more young Americans than the LGBTQ community. Can we agree that grooming is bad and should be punished? Yeah. Okay. Lit. What I would say is that Donald Trump and Elon Musk used their positions of influence over young Americans to change the way hundreds of thousands of young Americans think and behave throughout elementary, middle and high schools, which has been documented, studied and proven to increase bullying and harm and it infringes on parental consent. I disagree. I think that what they are trying.

[Conservative Speaker]

To do is not grooming, but trying to.

[Xander Morix]

Let's define grooming. We should start by doing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say that grooming is someone with a position of influence over another person attempting to change their thought patterns or behavior to exploit them. Would you agree?

[Conservative Speaker]

Right.

[Xander Morix]

What I would say is that Donald Trump and Elon Musk are proven to have been doing that with elementary, middle and high school children by sending targeted ads to youth demographics, accessing their rhetoric on social Media in what studies have shown circumstances, studies of tens of thousands of teachers reported incidents, school reports, hundreds of disciplinary reports sent to studies have proven that there's increase in bullying in places where Donald Trump. I think they have a plan. Well, let me finish this really quickly. It's important to note that there have been thousands of cases of Donald Trump's rhetoric being linked specifically to bullying incidents that have been done by elementary schoolers, middle schoolers, and high schoolers who all said that they felt vindicated in their actions because Donald Trump, the president, told them that it was okay. And what we're also seeing is that in communities that have a 10 point increase in support for Donald Trump, there's an 8% increase in bullying. And the reason that this is unique is this has never happened in politics before. It hasn't mattered, Republican or Democrat. It's specifically Donald Trump and Elon Musk working to change the minds of young Americans. And they're doing it for exploitative gain.

[Conservative Speaker]

Right?

[Xander Morix]

Exploitive. I think that we are tired. We're tired of the left or the LGBT community. We're tired of them trying to influence the children as well. No one's trying to influence the children except Donald Trump and Elon Musk. No, no, no. They're trying to influence the children. So the LGBTQ community is not trying to influence children. They're trying to save children's lives. I disagree. That's. You can't disagree without fact. Otherwise you talk about castration. That's not saving lives. That's not saving lives. Okay. That's not saving lives. I want to break that down because it's a scary concept. If people were actually chemically castrating young Americans, I would also be freaking out. I would also. I would also have problems. But when we work with the medical professionals, when we talk to the psychologists, when we work with the families, we see that that is not happening. We see that that's not happening. There are 0.01% of young Americans that are receiving non reversible gender affirming care. And in 90% of those cases, that was life saving care. That is life saving care. Tragedies happening. Let's talk about society as a whole. Okay. Do more people regret their gender affirming care or do they regret knee surgery, hip replacement, Lasik eye surgery, Pause.

[Moderator]

Voted out by the majority.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so your claim is Donald Trump and Elon Musk are doing more grooming, Right?

Yes.

Than LGBT activists.

[Xander Morix]

100%. Do you want to hear more about why?

[Conservative Speaker]

Sure.

[Xander Morix]

Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Amazing. So Donald Trump's rhetoric has specifically been linked to bullying cases in elementary, middle, and high school. What we see are also that Donald Trump and Elon Musk are working in tandem to access young people through their phone screens. Donald Trump and Elon Musk worked to reduce Twitter protections, and we saw the firing of staff that worked to specifically set children. We now see about one quarter of young people that are online are on Twitter and they're accessing media because also the algorithm has been changed to make sure that Elon Musk content and far right content are boosted by about 1,000%. And that's been measured by a variety of studies. And so our young Americans, while they're on their phones without parental supervision, are absorbing rhetoric that psychologists have measured to be damaging not only to their minds, but to their peers minds. So we've specifically seen hundreds of cases in over 20 states that bullying has increased as a result of Donald Trump and Elon Musk's rhetoric. There was an incident, and it was heartbreaking, where one student was bullied so severely that they attempted suicide because they kept being told, donald Trump says you need to leave. Donald Trump says you are illegal. And it is a heartbreaking, devastating truth because these young minds are not voters. This has nothing to do with the political campaign. It has everything to do with changing the political culture and working to specifically target young people. That's why they're banning books. That's why they're trying to restrict information that our children have access to and trying to give them a broken worldview so that when they continue to idolize Donald Trump and Elon Musk, they won't know line of when they've gone too far. And that's a huge problem. We should not have the most powerful person in the world who's setting an example for our young people, who most of our young people say they recognize as the most powerful person in the world, sharing hate speech that we see manifest in elementary school classrooms. 90% of teachers surveyed after Donald Trump's first election stated that school climate worsened specifically due to Trump rhetoric and bullying that was directly linked to Donald Trump's name and catchphrases. It's not a coincidence, it's not a parallel, and it's not something that's ever happened before.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, okay, I understand what you're saying. For the sake of the argument, I would say that I agree to an extent. Right. Obviously, it depends on what's grooming. Right.

[Xander Morix]

Well, let's define grooming.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah.

[Xander Morix]

So what would you define grooming as?

[Conservative Speaker]

So, typically, in I mean, most political circles, Right. They would say grooming is any kind of act that kind of leads to, like, a sexual act.

[Xander Morix]

That's sexual grooming. Grooming also works with terrorist organizations and cults. So I would say that grooming has.

[Conservative Speaker]

A broad definition, but I would say that grooming is not intrinsic or exclusive to the political right. Right. Grooming is.

[Xander Morix]

No, it's not. It's something that happens everywhere. It happens everywhere.

[Conservative Speaker]

Democrats do it. Republicans do it. Right.

[Xander Morix]

Some people whose favorite color is yellow do it too.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes. But my point is, is that for the sake of argument, I would say I agree, but I kind of reject the initial premise because. And even this. This ties into your previous point, because I think what you're. What you're actually trying to say is that the agenda that LGBT activists.

[Xander Morix]

There is no agenda.

[Conservative Speaker]

Everyone has an agenda. It doesn't matter.

[Xander Morix]

Well, of the LGBTQ activists make it sound like there's a coordinated agenda, when in reality, there's a bunch of people.

[Conservative Speaker]

Well, if you're an organized group, you have an agenda.

[Xander Morix]

We're not organized, I promise. We're disorganized.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, well, for the sake of argument, let's just say every group has some kind of focus and things they're trying to accomplish. Right. That's not exclusive to one party.

[Xander Morix]

Sure.

[Conservative Speaker]

But the reason. I think what you're trying to say is that LGBT groups aren't the issue. Gun violence, stuff like that is the issue.

[Xander Morix]

Exactly, exactly.

[Conservative Speaker]

But the reason why I kind of reject that premise is because when it comes to a lot of these medical conversations we have, there is actually no medical consensus. Like, there is a medical consensus. I think it's this.

[Xander Morix]

There is a medical consensus. How many doctors are in the a.m.

[Conservative Speaker]

You have doctors who disagree. That by definition means there's no medical consensus. Also, when you have. When you have instances like. Have you heard about the. There was a $10 million NIH funded study led by. I believe her name was Dr. Johanna.

[Xander Morix]

Yes.

[Conservative Speaker]

And she did a study and found that there were. No, not. No. But there weren't as much mental health benefits.

[Xander Morix]

I know what you're referencing, and that's been debunked and disproven. The box is going to pop up here.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, sure. But the thing is, when you have conversation, we have doctors in various groups who don't. There is no such thing as consensus when it comes to science. Like, if you have people who.

[Xander Morix]

There's technically no consensus that comes to everything. All it takes is one person in the corner of the world going Like, I don't like French fries. Suddenly French fries.

[Conservative Speaker]

Aren't that conservatives? The issue is.

[Xander Morix]

Have.

[Conservative Speaker]

Is the gaslighting. When you say things like, it's not happening, it's not happening. It's not happening because that is fundamentally not true. And you can't have conversations the way that you're describing.

[Xander Morix]

Let me clarify this, because when I say it's not happening at all, I mean the way that you describe it. Because it's important for people listening and watching not to think that the care that you're describing is happening. Because. And let's break it down. The care that has been described throughout this episode as chemical frustration, as these attacks on young Americans are not happening at all. Am I saying that any young American has ever regretted receiving gender affirming care? They have. It's heartbreaking. And I want our medical professionals to continue to learn more and do better, but to say what they're doing is happening is a lie. And I won't excuse a lie, because.

[Conservative Speaker]

The issue is that when you have other medical groups. I think you referenced the American Psychological association and Psychiatric.

[Xander Morix]

Yeah.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes.

[Xander Morix]

Pediatric.

[Conservative Speaker]

Even they have. Even they have said that when it comes to gender affirming care, a lot of kids, when they go through adolescence, when they go through puberty, no longer have that same gender dysphoria. And it goes back to my. It goes.

[Xander Morix]

You know why?

[Conservative Speaker]

But hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Xander Morix]

Okay.

[Moderator]

Because you've been voted out by the majority.

[Xander Morix]

I appreciate you, chair. You have a good vibe. Okay, so you're saying that Elon Musk and Trump are grooming kids. Yes. Okay, so you have a unique lifestyle, right?

[Conservative Speaker]

You know, gay, lgbtq, to keep that lifestyle.

[Xander Morix]

We need men in this country to be in the Army. Right. To defend your right to have your unique. I'm down with that. Yeah. I support some of the military. We got to stop pushing it on kids. Pushing what on kids? The trans stuff. Okay. LGBTQ stuff. Talking about being trans and being queer made someone who is not trans and queer more likely to be trans and queer. That would result in a lot of harm, but it's not happening. What is happening? It's not happening. Give me evidence. Well, it's.

[Conservative Speaker]

Look at.

[Xander Morix]

Look at California. There are more queer and trans people because queer and trans people feel more comfortable coming out and less likely that they're going to receive mass amounts of hatred. There's been a rise. There's been a rise in the lgbtq, the trans. Because there's more information out there. There's more affirmation because there's more media representation.

[Conservative Speaker]

Media loves to push it.

[Xander Morix]

It is evident over the last decade that the more queer people are discussed.

[Conservative Speaker]

Why are we doing drag?

[Xander Morix]

Queer people feel sex. Why are we doing dragons? Queen story are fun. Drag queens are fun, okay? But it's not for children. Why not for children? I would say a drag queen at a story hour is more like a birthday party clown than anything else. They have a fun hair, fun makeup, fun shoes, fun outfit. It's a strip drag. It's a strip tease, okay? Some drag queens are strip teases. If I ordered a birthday clown. If I ordered a birthday clown and Pennywise showed up to my birthday party and started eating my children alive, I would be like, wait, that's the wrong clown. That's the wrong clown. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Some drag queens.

[Conservative Speaker]

Clowns.

[Xander Morix]

Some drag queens perform at nightclubs. Some drag queens read at bookstores. Some drag queens go do events. Some drag queens go do festivals. There are no reported incidents. It's not for children. Hold on. This is important. Queer people, trans people and drag queens, none of them. None of them have any correlation to being more likely to commit a sex crime, to be a groomer, or to do anything pedophilic. It's data. It's proven. The American Medical Association, American Psychological association, the World Health Organization, have proven that there is no. This is what's going on. Let me tell you what's going on.

[Conservative Speaker]

The LGBTQ community has gone too far.

[Xander Morix]

How? Okay, so I'm an ex Democrat. I used to live in San Francisco, actually. Same. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I went to Gay Pride and it was fun. You know, there's girls there, there's straight.

[Conservative Speaker]

Women, so obviously that's awesome.

[Xander Morix]

So, yeah, when I went In 2010, gay pride was just San Francisco. Have you ever been to Mardi Gras? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But here's the thing.

[Conservative Speaker]

Gay Pride.

[Xander Morix]

Did you know Mardi Gras is labeled as family friendly?

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay.

[Xander Morix]

But Gay Pride is now everywhere. So Mardi Gras is just in New Orleans. Have you ever been to a sports party? Yeah, but what's not called a sports party? What's it called, like, when they meet out and they're like, in front of the game? Tailgate. Tailgate. Okay. That's different than Gay Pride. Have you ever been to a football game? Gay Pride is everyone making out and.

[Conservative Speaker]

Having sex on the street.

[Xander Morix]

No, it's not.

[Conservative Speaker]

That's illegal.

[Xander Morix]

That's illegal. That's illegal. The vast majority of Pride of.

[Conservative Speaker]

We're talking about San Francisco Here.

[Xander Morix]

Okay. San Francisco's extra gay, but the vast majority extra sexualized. It's a European sexual. San Francisco is a European city. San Francisco is in the United States of America. Come on now. Yeah. It's not a European city. It's the gay capital.

[Conservative Speaker]

And now that that has gone everywhere, all over.

[Xander Morix]

I would say capital. No. Yes, we do. But the Pride dangers that you're describing, people having sex in the streets. That's illegal. That's illegal. And if someone's having sex in the streets at Pride, I think they should go to jail. But what we're seeing is that's not happening in the vast majority of cases. And when it is, is because these are drunk adults outside. And that happens anytime there's drunk adults outside. And we need to work to prevent that and make it more safe, more family friendly. And we should differentiate.

[Conservative Speaker]

Here's the thing.

[Xander Morix]

There should be adult spaces at nightclubs and family friendly spaces and parks, and we should all have magical pride. I agree. We need men for. For armies. We need men to be men. Right? You agree with that? I think we need anyone who wants to serve the American military and is qualified to do so to do so. Do you do realize that all men cannot be trans? And no one is saying all men are. You're not about to be trans. If I watch a bunch of trans movies, why do you have to push it on children? There is no medical research, no psychological research, and no data anywhere in the world over any period of history that shows discussing queer and trans identities, putting queer and trans identities on TVs. I'm about to say it's change children's minds or identities.

[Moderator]

Okay, let's pause.

[Xander Morix]

I feel like you're good by the majority. Wrong.

[Conservative Speaker]

So I think the. The way that the. The statement is phrased is kind of a straw man. I don't disagree that, like Elon or Trump are. Are necessarily doing like. I'm not.

[Xander Morix]

So we agree that Elon Musk and Donald Trump are.

[Conservative Speaker]

No, I would disagree, but I'm saying that I can agree that plane. I. I can agree that plane crashes are bad, but then also want to stop car crashes.

[Xander Morix]

Well, car crashes and plane crashes aren't originating from the same source. And this anti LGBTQ rhetoric is originating from the very people who are actually grooming our children. So I would label this as a political distraction.

[Conservative Speaker]

Like, first of all, I think you're going to have to.

[Xander Morix]

Do you think that Donald Trump and Elon Musk love queer and trans people?

[Conservative Speaker]

No.

[Xander Morix]

Do you think that they use rhetoric That I think they're very liberal supporting queer and trans people.

[Conservative Speaker]

I think they're very liberal, and they.

[Xander Morix]

Don'T think Elon Musk and Donald Trump are very liberal.

[Conservative Speaker]

They have a confused ontological view of this issue. So what I'd like to attack is in. In this specific debate is I'd like you to make a truth claim about transgenderism in general, because it seems that you.

[Xander Morix]

What is transgenderism? Because transgenderism is a hateful word that doesn't exist, and we're gonna have to unpack that.

[Conservative Speaker]

How is that a hateful world that doesn't exist? Transgenderism is one man.

[Xander Morix]

Okay. That's why it's hateful and doesn't exist.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay.

[Xander Morix]

So men are not pretending to be women. Trans women are women. And I understand. Okay.

[Conservative Speaker]

Did you know there's a truth claim right there? So trans women are women. So there's a. There's a. There's a thing that I would like to put forward to you. There's four things that trans transgenderism could be possibly.

[Xander Morix]

Okay. Transgenderism isn't real. So I don't.

[Conservative Speaker]

There's four things that trans people could be or the causation of trans.

[Xander Morix]

Deal. Did you know that they have brains more like their gender?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah, I've been through that study. It's obviously fraudulent, but I'd like to go peer reviewed. Yeah, I know the scientific and medical establishment. Like the study that he.

[Xander Morix]

How many doctors are in the American Medical Association?

[Conservative Speaker]

I'm not sure.

[Xander Morix]

How many medical professionals are in the American Medical Association?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah, I'm not sure.

[Xander Morix]

270,000?

[Conservative Speaker]

I don't care about credentials.

[Xander Morix]

You don't care about people being educated?

[Conservative Speaker]

No, I'd like to. I'd like. I'm trying to attack this point ontologically. I'm trying to get you to make a truth claim about trans people.

[Xander Morix]

Let's do it.

[Conservative Speaker]

The first thing that trans people could be claiming to could make a claim about themselves. There's four things. The first thing. And I'm gonna go through them really quick, and then you could respond to.

[Xander Morix]

Them that their gender doesn't master birth sex, period.

[Conservative Speaker]

So the first thing.

[Xander Morix]

Yes.

[Conservative Speaker]

Could be a sexual perversion. So that has always existed. Men dressing up like women for a sexual fetish has always existed.

[Xander Morix]

That's not a sexual perversion.

[Conservative Speaker]

That is a perversion.

[Xander Morix]

Is Rudy Giuliani a pervert?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah.

[Xander Morix]

Really? Okay, Agreed, agreed, agreed. That has weird vibes.

[Conservative Speaker]

Let me just finish.

[Xander Morix]

What about Brett Kavanaugh?

[Conservative Speaker]

I don't think those claims were substantiated, but yeah.

[Xander Morix]

What about our vice president?

[Conservative Speaker]

No, he didn't have sex with a couch. That was obviously fraudulent. Supposed to be a.

[Xander Morix]

What about the fact that he dressed up as a woman?

[Conservative Speaker]

That was a Halloween party. So, look, we're gonna address that.

[Xander Morix]

Dressing up as women is not always linked to pedophilia. And what we actually study is that transgenderism is not linked to any sort of. Any sexual misconduct.

[Conservative Speaker]

Dude, I understand you're passionate about the issue. I'd just like to get through these four things because other people like to talk. So the first thing, I think you could admit that some people dress up like Leah Thomas, for example. She was on he. Sorry. He was on the Penn State swim team. We found his secret Instagram account and he was posting. No, this is.

[Xander Morix]

So can we just. Okay. At least it's. Again, pretend for the conversation. So I'm not gonna check you.

[Conservative Speaker]

I won't.

[Xander Morix]

I'm gonna have to check you because that's hateful and that's wrong and it's inaccurate. It's not. Leah Thomas lost to cisgender athletes the same year that she won. There is no inherent biological advantage for trans athletes competing in their sports.

[Conservative Speaker]

Obviously there is. Men are stronger than women. I don't care about that.

[Xander Morix]

Go through care and standards. Dude, the NCAA sets specific biological standards of care so that you can't just be like, okay, I want.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah, I understand. I understand. And I understand you're passionate about the issue, but I'm trying to just.

[Xander Morix]

Passion. It's information.

[Conservative Speaker]

Men pretending to be women.

[Xander Morix]

Trans women. Ugh.

[Conservative Speaker]

Are not women. And the first claim that I'm making.

[Xander Morix]

Is that some men are women.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, you can keep saying it. It's not true.

[Xander Morix]

I feel like I have to.

[Conservative Speaker]

So I understand. I understand the argument is, are trans women women? And I'm saying no. So if I call her a woman, I'm forfeiting my entire point. Well, you understand, I'm not going to say that.

[Xander Morix]

Your point is, I don't understand what.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah, I'm going to prove why it's valid. So men who pretend to be women, either it's a sexual fetish, which I.

[Xander Morix]

Think that you can agree it's just medically proven not to be.

[Conservative Speaker]

I think that you can agree that sometimes it can happen. Transvestitism.

[Xander Morix]

I think some men dress up as women. I think trans women are women.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay. That's what I'm claiming. The first thing that's. That the second thing is a body dysmorphic disorder. Right. That's a body. And as laid out in the DSM 4. Yeah. And still in the DSM 5 when they changed it, they're still a 60. I think it was 65 to 74. 75 overlay between people who identify as transgender and them having gender dysphoria. So my question for you is, if it's a body dysmorphic disorder, if it does exist as a body dysmorphic disorder, why wouldn't you treat other body dysmorphia disorders the same way?

[Xander Morix]

We tried that with conversion therapy. You killed thousands of people. And it was.

[Conservative Speaker]

I'm not.

[Xander Morix]

Yeah, I'm not talking about every single medical. That is the attempt to change.

[Conservative Speaker]

Why not give a tummy tuck to an anorexic person?

[Xander Morix]

Why?

[Conservative Speaker]

You're making physical changes.

[Xander Morix]

People make physical changes all day long. There's a higher.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah.

[Xander Morix]

For breast augmentation, lace, eye surgery, knee replacement surgery, hip replacement surgery.

[Conservative Speaker]

Why?

[Xander Morix]

And gender affirming care. Because it's life changing. Essential care.

[Conservative Speaker]

First of all, if you have a body dysmorphic disorder, which is defined in the DSM 4 and the DSM as a body dysmorphic disorder, which is literally the same thing as somebody who has, like, anorexia, they're confused.

[Xander Morix]

That's not about their self. Transgenderism are not the same.

[Conservative Speaker]

I know you don't agree with that, but I'm making a fact, so it's a fact. Just relax and then I'll make the point. I understand you're passionate about the issue. You live a kind of weird, perverse lifestyle.

[Xander Morix]

I understand I live a weird lifestyle. I'm gonna try this one and not cause I'm lgbtq.

[Conservative Speaker]

Perversity is when you deviate from the norm. Right. And so if you deviate from the norm, it's perverse. You've perverted the end. So that's not the point. But the actual point is that in reality, a man who pretends to be a woman is not a woman. And it's the same thing. If I were to go to the doctor's office as an anorexic and say, doc, give me a tummy tuck, because my self perception is not in line with reality.

[Xander Morix]

That's so life saving for me.

[Conservative Speaker]

Give me a tummy tuck. Yeah. Neither is transgender proven to be. No, it's not. There was a new Oxford study that just came out in 2025 that proved anxiety, depression, suicidality and suicide skyrocketed. All skyrocketed. The reality of the situation.

[Xander Morix]

The reality of their situation. Care and affirming environments reduce the rates of suicide, depression and anxiety.

[Conservative Speaker]

It skyrocketed in every place.

[Xander Morix]

Quoting it.

[Moderator]

That's time.

[Conservative Speaker]

Good to talk to you.

[Xander Morix]

My next claim is health care costs and gun violence harm young Americans. LGBTQ acceptance does not.

[Conservative Speaker]

I just want to make sure I.

[Xander Morix]

Can we agree that. Can we agree that our shared value for this debate should be that all young Americans have safe and healthy childhoods?

[Conservative Speaker]

Absolutely.

[Xander Morix]

Okay. Beautiful. Yeah.

[Conservative Speaker]

I just want to make sure I heard that right. Young Americans referencing children.

[Xander Morix]

Yes.

[Conservative Speaker]

So then I want to switch the focus on what the plus represents and lgbtq.

[Xander Morix]

First, I want to state that gun violence has been the leading cause of death for American children for the last four years. And six American children die every single day from gun violence. And 4 million young Americans are currently uninsured, which makes them 60% more likely to die. While LGBTQ + acceptance risks no American children's lives.

[Conservative Speaker]

I'm not in disagreement with that necessarily.

[Xander Morix]

I love that.

[Conservative Speaker]

But where we're headed, right, that plus is a placeholder for maps for minor attractive persons. Minor attractive persons.

[Xander Morix]

No, it is not. That would be insane. Pedophilia.

[Conservative Speaker]

I'm glad that you think it's pedophilia in its insane.

[Xander Morix]

Well, it's defined as pedophilia.

[Conservative Speaker]

I think you understand and you know that your side of the aisle does not feel that way.

[Xander Morix]

No. There is a large group who commits the most acts of pedophilia in the United States of America. I'll give you a hint.

[Conservative Speaker]

Do you identify the LGBTQ as a political movement?

[Xander Morix]

No, not at all.

[Conservative Speaker]

We're going to fundamentally disagree right there.

[Xander Morix]

Well, why is. Why is the LGBTQ community a political movement?

[Conservative Speaker]

First of all, it's considered a victim class. Let's start there.

[Xander Morix]

A victim class. What's the victim class?

[Conservative Speaker]

They have specific rights and protections.

[Xander Morix]

They have the same rights and protections as all Americans, or they should, and we're working to get there. That's not true, because right now, unfortunately, you're right, it's not. Right now, they don't. Right now, LGBTQ Americans have less rights and liberties than the standard America.

[Conservative Speaker]

How you do.

[Xander Morix]

Than heterosexual cisgender.

[Conservative Speaker]

How they have less rights and privileges?

[Xander Morix]

There's a variety of things. For example, there's legislation in several states that work to prevent trans women from accessing the bathrooms that relate to their gender identity. There's prevention of LGBTQ discussion in education. There's efforts right now from our president to work and roll back rights that have been guaranteed to LGBT plus Americans for decades. And it's really, really important that we recognize that, because right now LGBTQ plus Americans do not share the same liberties and rights as cisgender heterosexual Americans do. And to pretend that it's not happening is really weird. I would ask you, what rights do you think LGBTQ people are asking for that are special rights?

[Conservative Speaker]

So this is where we're going to fundamentally disagree.

[Xander Morix]

Yeah.

[Conservative Speaker]

Really? Because. So first and foremost, yeah, to be. To be quite honest, I believe. And that's not that I believe. I know that the LGBTQ movement is a Marxist movement. I believe.

[Xander Morix]

It's not a Marx movement.

[Conservative Speaker]

I believe it was installed.

[Xander Morix]

It's not a Marxist movement. That's a funny thought.

[Conservative Speaker]

I let you finish talking. Let me finish.

[Xander Morix]

Okay. But you're just saying I installed.

[Conservative Speaker]

No, I'm not. I'm saying things that I know. I believe you've developed and put yourself in this sort of matrix fictional reality, and you feel safe there. I'm glad you do. But here's the problem. Where we're headed is why I'm concerned.

[Xander Morix]

Where are we headed?

[Conservative Speaker]

I'm not. I'll tell you where we're headed. We're headed towards maps. Whether or not you agree with that is regardless of.

[Xander Morix]

What evidence is it that we're headed towards maps?

[Conservative Speaker]

I mean, are you kidding me? Yeah. Even on the conservative side, they're opening up the discussion on whether or not this can be considered legitimate sexual orientation.

[Xander Morix]

No one is saying that pedophilia is a legitimate sexual orientation. Okay.

[Conservative Speaker]

This is important, actually, that you're saying this right now, because where we're headed, I'm very secure that we're heading this direction, wherein at a certain point, that.

[Xander Morix]

Would be really concerning. Then I would understand.

[Conservative Speaker]

And I agree that we agree with that. But going full circle.

[Xander Morix]

Okay. Yeah.

[Conservative Speaker]

Who started the gay rights movement?

[Xander Morix]

Black trans women?

[Conservative Speaker]

No. Harry Hay started the gay rights movement in 1950s. What party did he belong to?

[Xander Morix]

You tell me.

[Conservative Speaker]

He belonged to the Communist Party. What? What?

[Xander Morix]

What.

[Conservative Speaker]

What book and what society did he start?

[Xander Morix]

The LGBTQ movement? Because I would define it as a civil rights movement in modern history. We're sticking on to BTP people.

[Conservative Speaker]

We are still. But you're not talking because ultimately you're leading to deconstructionism. You want a gray box society.

[Xander Morix]

That's the goal. What is a gray box society?

[Conservative Speaker]

The fact that you don't know that is exactly the problem you are.

[Xander Morix]

No, I'm compartmentalized in this idea.

[Conservative Speaker]

I know what it is. It's a genderless society. It's where the individual is stripped from all individuality. That's what it is.

[Xander Morix]

I think allowing people to express themselves.

[Conservative Speaker]

As individuals is individuality, that you're already in the matrix. You're stuck there. You're in this world that provides all these protections for you. All these. The fact that you can even sit here. The fact that this.

[Xander Morix]

What extra protections do LGBTQ people receive in the United States?

[Conservative Speaker]

Do you want anecdotal experience?

[Xander Morix]

I want any evidence that you have.

[Conservative Speaker]

The fact that it even.

[Xander Morix]

You don't have evidence. Even is a evidence. It's not a discussion.

[Conservative Speaker]

It's a sexual orientation. It is a sexual orientation. It should be between.

[Xander Morix]

What is the sexual orientation? What should be when it arrives.

[Conservative Speaker]

What am I talking about? I'm talking about the fact that it's even a movement to begin with. It doesn't deserve.

[Xander Morix]

There's a civil rights movement that is described as the lgbtq.

[Conservative Speaker]

It doesn't deserve a civil right. That's my whole point.

[Xander Morix]

LGBTQ plus people don't deserve civil rights. I would say that the majority of American principle would disagree with what you're saying right now. I think all people in the United States of America are equal. And you don't.

[Moderator]

Let's pause.

[Xander Morix]

You've been voted out by the majority.

[Moderator]

Please return to your seat.

[Xander Morix]

I appreciate you.

[Conservative Speaker]

Hello, nice to meet you.

I'm Angelina.

[Xander Morix]

Nice to meet you. Can we agree that our shared value would be young Americans deserve safe and healthy childhood, 100%.

[Conservative Speaker]

And I think gun violence is an issue, and I think healthcare is an issue. However, what I would like to talk about today is children being targeted and transitioned at a young age.

[Xander Morix]

I don't believe, but children are being targeted in transition.

[Conservative Speaker]

So currently in the United States, you can start gender transitioning a child as early as they're starting puberty, and that's anywhere from 8 to 13. And so at that age, you start putting them on puberty blockers, which is not reversible, by the way.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, so how many irreversible gender affirming care procedures have been done on ages 13 or under in the United States of America?

[Conservative Speaker]

Listen, just the idea that you even put them on puberty blockers, that's irreversible.

[Xander Morix]

Do you understand that not all puberty blockers are irreversible? Nutrients are coming in every day. So let me break down the statistics.

[Conservative Speaker]

No, no, no, no, no. Puberty blockers. Do you know what puberty blockers are? Beauty blockers is Lupron. That is the brand name for puberty blockers. Lupron. Lupron is used on children 8 to 13 year olds to. To Pause their puberty. It is the same drug used in chemical castration for pedophiles.

[Xander Morix]

I thought that 8 to 13. Okay, if I thought 8 to 13 year olds would be chemically castrated, that would be horrible. That would be evil. That would be unacceptable. So that's not what's happening? Well, no. Let's break it down. I would love to break it down for you. No one's advocating for that. Let's break it down. So 1% to 3% of the youth population in the United States of America are trans. About 15% of that 1 to 3% receive reversible or partially reversible gender formulation.

[Conservative Speaker]

Like you mean by reversal?

[Xander Morix]

I'm talking about hormone blockers. I'm talking about hormone replacement therapy. It is reversible in many cases. So I understand some of these things are not fully reversible. That's why it's reversible and partially reversible. Some hormone blockers are not fully reversible. But the World Health Organization, the American Medical association, the American Psychological association, and the American Psychiatric association work to set standards and approve that all of these cares are life saving. What we see is that the vast majority of people who receive this care never end up regretting this care. Do you know what the regret rate for reversible care is in the United States of America for transgender youth?

[Conservative Speaker]

Any rate of it is enough to not do this to children.

[Xander Morix]

You know the rate, though. Tell me the rate.

[Conservative Speaker]

Tell me the rate. Please tell me the rate.

[Xander Morix]

The rate is 1%. And do you know what the majority of that 1% rate is? It's due to social stigma and hatred, not actual regret of the care. And so what we see is even.

[Conservative Speaker]

One child decides to detransition. That's enough to not do this.

[Xander Morix]

No, it's not.

[Conservative Speaker]

Children cannot make decisions. Listen, how can a 12 or 13. You decide you never want to have children.

[Xander Morix]

That doesn't happen at all. You can't. That's not happening. Hormone replacement therapy isn't sterilization. That's not true hormone replacement therapy.

[Conservative Speaker]

Then why can't Lupron, the same drug we give to children to pedophiles to chemically castrate them?

[Xander Morix]

That's not what's happening. That's not what we're doing. You don't think we give Lupron to pedophiles? I don't think we're chemically castrated. Our young American children, all gender affirming care surgeries have to have a period of time between about one to five years in which these people are receiving.

[Conservative Speaker]

Treatment they are working with. Medical professionals do not even have to go to a psychologist.

[Xander Morix]

That is not true.

[Conservative Speaker]

Blair White, one of the most prominent trans women in America right now, said she had to get no psychopathic is.

[Xander Morix]

Proven to spread misinformation online and in the media.

[Conservative Speaker]

Depression is real. Gender dysphoria, I agree, is real.

[Xander Morix]

Agree.

[Conservative Speaker]

But I don't think the way we treat this is by just slapping on hormones.

[Xander Morix]

So what happens to anxiety, depression and suicide rates after a young trans person goes through gender affirming care for about.

[Conservative Speaker]

A year it's better.

[Xander Morix]

And then after what about 10 years?

[Conservative Speaker]

Listen, I don't disagree that sometimes it might be the right decision for someone.

[Xander Morix]

In 70% of cases, suicidality goes down. No one is advocating for child to make decisions by themselves. They're working with their parents to receive parental consent, medical supervision, and they're not happening under the age of 13. And the majority of doctors in all cases in the United States of America are telling people not to have a lot of these crucial surgeries until they do reach the age of 18. Do you know how many people have had surgery in the United States of America that is gender affirming care under the age of 18 that resulted in any type of surgical transformation of the body? Tell me, do you know the number?

[Conservative Speaker]

Tell me the number.

[Xander Morix]

0.01%.

[Conservative Speaker]

So at what number do we have to get to to show you that if someone saving their lives, double mastectomy is doing an either?

[Xander Morix]

How many young people have to tell you that this care is saving their lives before you care? It's saving lives every single day.

[Conservative Speaker]

What are you doing as a child and doing it when you turn 18? What's the difference?

[Xander Morix]

What's the difference?

[Conservative Speaker]

What's the difference?

[Xander Morix]

There's so much of a difference when you go through puberty, so much of your body and chemical changes so drastically that it creates a lot of the negative experience that leads trans young people to kill themselves. And that is why the World Health Organization, American Medical Association, American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric association work to agree that they understand that gender affirming care is life saving care for young adults, for.

[Conservative Speaker]

Children, for anyone who needs it and.

[Xander Morix]

What we're not advocating for.

[Conservative Speaker]

But when you're a child, you cannot make that lifelong decision decision.

[Xander Morix]

You can't make it by yourself.

[Conservative Speaker]

In the fact alone that it sterilizes them is enough to say we can't do this until they're 18 in that.

[Xander Morix]

It does not sterilize young children. You are just saying things that are scary.

[Conservative Speaker]

No, I'm not.

[Xander Morix]

That's not.

[Conservative Speaker]

And even people on your side will say that's true.

[Moderator]

Voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat.

[Xander Morix]

So why are we spending so much time talking about life saving medical care when every single day we're losing young people to lack of medical care and to gun violence?

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, well, can I just backtrack? So you initially had said.

[Xander Morix]

I'd prefer to start there. Alrighty.

[Conservative Speaker]

Well, I mean, I have a point I need to address just so you can understand kind of where I'm coming from in the argument.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, can you answer that question and then we'll get to yours?

[Conservative Speaker]

Go ahead and restate it.

[Xander Morix]

Why are we spending so much time talking about life saving medical care when we're seeing young people die every single day due to a lack of medical care and due to gun violence in the United States of America?

[Conservative Speaker]

So you don't drive a car?

[Xander Morix]

Of course I drive a car. But what we're saying, wait, look at.

[Conservative Speaker]

How many people die in car accidents every year.

[Xander Morix]

That's a really special statistic. But what's important about noting is that the vast majority of people who drive cars are choosing to drive cars. The vast majority of people who are being shot to death by guns are not choosing to be shot by death by guns. The 4 million children who do not have access to health care are not choosing to not have access to health care. They are more likely to die, however, because of a system that they were born into. And that's not fair. That's deadly. It's harming young Americans every single day. Life's not fair. So children should get shot in their classrooms and not have the medicine they need? No.

[Conservative Speaker]

But they should also have the right to protect themselves in their own home or in their own community should have.

[Xander Morix]

The right to be children that are being shot to death every single day by assault rifles designed by them.

[Conservative Speaker]

Homes broken into and they don't know how to protect themselves.

[Xander Morix]

They don't have the ability to tell me the statistic.

[Conservative Speaker]

No, I'm asking you that question.

[Xander Morix]

Gun violence in the home leads to more death in that home without burglary. What you're seeing is that gun violence in America goes up because there are more guns in America. There are more assault rifles in America. There are less restrictions that help people who should have guns have guns. And now we're saying, oh, you know what? Everyone have a gun. Let's all have guns. There are more guns in the United States of America than there are people. What there are not is people that are receiving chemical castrations and being sterilized like other speakers in the circle are saying gender affirming care is medically proven to be life saving care. And they're working with psychologists, psychiatrists, doctors in all the cases. I am saying that you and I right here have no idea what is best for a child in Illinois, in Utah, in Florida, their parents do, they do, their medical professionals do. And the more that we get in the way of their choice making. We're infringing on parental consent, we're infringing on medical privacy. We're preventing young people from receiving life saving care.

[Conservative Speaker]

Wait, you said their parents have the right to make those kinds of choices.

[Xander Morix]

To help them make those choices.

[Conservative Speaker]

But isn't your party the one that says if a kid says that they're.

[Xander Morix]

Gay, that the teacher should tell the parents?

[Conservative Speaker]

Well, the Democratic Party.

[Xander Morix]

I'm not a member of the Democratic Party. However, I would say that much of the Democratic Party's stance versus the Republican Party stance makes more sense because it's grounded in evidence that saves young people's.

[Conservative Speaker]

Lives when it fits the case. And then now all of a sudden you think the parents should have that kind of say. I don't understand.

[Xander Morix]

No one is saying parents should be removed from the children's lives.

[Conservative Speaker]

That's essentially what they argue when they're gay.

[Xander Morix]

If a parent is a direct threat to a young person's life, then that needs to be evaluated. But that's not happening in the conversation.

[Conservative Speaker]

What do you consider a direct threat? I guess that's, that's the thing is, I mean, there's.

[Xander Morix]

How many trans people are transitioning without the support of their parents? In the vast majority of cases, trans people are supported by their parents. In all cases in the United States where surgery was done, parental consent, medical supervision and psychological supervision were there.

[Conservative Speaker]

When you say all I already know that's, that's false because nothing is a perfect 100% like that. That, that already is just that invalidates everything you're going to tell me with statistics. When you say all I know, that's maybe you're right, maybe there's a lot. But when you say all that's in.

[Moderator]

You'Ve been voted out by the majority. Please return to your chair.

[Xander Morix]

I appreciate you.

[Conservative Speaker]

Thank you very much.

[Xander Morix]

Hi. How you doing, man? Yasu, how does LGBTQ acceptance harm more young Americans than gun violence and healthcare costs? So define harm. What does harm mean to you? To me, harm would mean reducing quality of life or ending the life. Okay, so the Word of harm. It doesn't have to necessarily mean physically. You can harm somebody by spiritually, mentally, and all of above. Entirely agree. Right.

[Conservative Speaker]

So when we see.

[Xander Morix]

And what we see is that when we support and affirm LGBTQ acceptance, depression rates, anxiety rates, and suicidality rates go down significantly. 60%. 60% is the rate of change in suicidality rates. When we see LGBTQ people being accepted, suicidality. Honestly, that's not necessarily true. Because it's 100% true. It's a medical fact. You could say that. But if you really want to be realized, if you really want to go to realization, when they do transform to lgbtq, their anxiety actually goes up because that's not what's happening. Well, why if it's not? So let's break it down because I understand that this would be horrible and it's very scary, and the talking point gets out there a lot, and it's very confusing. What's happening is that LGBTQ young people experience higher rates of depression, anxiety and suicidality because of the way they're treated in society. And that's a medical fact that's been studied for years. What we see is that when there is more queer and trans representation, more queer and trans discussion, more queer and trans affirmation, that those suicide rates, depression rates, and anxiety rates go down. And so if it was innate within the queer and trans identity to be depressed and anxious, the more queer and trans discussion there were, the more queer trans people there were, the more that we would see anxiety, depression, and suicidality. Instead, what we see is that it is only when we accept, affirm, and educate about LGBTQ identities that these rates go down. Because it's not a symptom of being queer and trans. It's a symptom of hatred. It's a symptom of anti LGBTQ policy, which is harming young Americans. Explain about the plus, the lgbtq.

[Moderator]

No, no.

[Xander Morix]

What do you think about what I just said?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah, no, I agree.

[Xander Morix]

I agree. Fantastic. But explain about the plus, though, with lgbtq. Right. LGBTQ stands for the fact that, for example, intersex people, they don't have a letter in lgbtq. Asexual people, they don't have a letter in lgbtq. Lgb. See, it's hard to say. I would say queer and trans. I think queer is an all encompassing and trans is inclusive. Let's talk about intersex. Right? So intersex itself. Lgbtq. Well, intersex itself. Right. That still does not make a third gender.

[Conservative Speaker]

The chromosome itself, it still identifies a male.

[Xander Morix]

If it has a Y chromosome, still is a male. So there are many people that are born XX that would have what you would describe as male reproductive organs. Right. There are many people who are born XY that actually have female reproductive organs because chromosomes themselves don't define biology. Sex is actually a biological characteristic that chromosomes are a part of. And we also see that it has to do with hormones and it has to do with. With sexual organs on the inside and outside of the body. And so it's not a singular thing that can be defined. There are 40 different chromosomal structures. It's not just XX and not XY. There are so many different people that fall within the intersex category. And that's why gender affirming care originally existed, was to help these people receive the medical care that they needed. What we're seeing is that it is so essential to help people be who they are, and it saves their lives when you do that, regardless of what you're saying. The chromosome.

[Moderator]

Let's pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so your original claim was that.

[Xander Morix]

Gun violence and healthcare costs harm young Americans. LGBTQ acceptance does not.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so I agree with the first half.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, what's your disagreement with LGBTQ acceptance and how it does not harm young Americans?

[Conservative Speaker]

So I think that first you can look at anything. Teaching any young people something that's just fundamentally not true. That.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, well, it is a fundamental truth. What we see is that intersex, queer and trans people have existed throughout all time, every continent, every single culture and society. The very first civil society, ancient Mesopotamia, had queer and intersex people. What we're seeing is that they existed in ancient China, ancient Egypt. They've existed everywhere throughout all time. It's not a matter of. I don't even know what you're saying.

[Conservative Speaker]

Well, that's because I didn't really say anything. It just kind of went off.

[Xander Morix]

Well, you just said that they're not real. I know you said that they're not real. And that's enough to draw concern, because it's like, what are you talking about?

[Conservative Speaker]

People can rewind about 25 seconds, seconds, and they'll see that. I didn't say that, but I didn't say that they're not real. I'm saying we're teaching people things that are not young people things that are not true. For instance, we're teaching boys that they can be girls. That fundamentally, I think, is unsafe.

[Xander Morix]

Boys can't be girls. Trans girls can be girls.

[Conservative Speaker]

Trans girls can be trans girls.

[Xander Morix]

Right.

[Conservative Speaker]

And I wouldn't disagree with you that they don't exist. They're human beings. You're a human being. I love you and care about you.

[Xander Morix]

As a human being. That's a dub. We'll take it from there. We agree. Okay, let's take that. That's a dub. People are people.

[Conservative Speaker]

We see each other. We're human beings.

[Xander Morix]

Right. I genuinely, I love that.

[Conservative Speaker]

That. Okay. But within that there are still things we can teach people that can harm them. I think that I agree.

[Xander Morix]

Teaching hatred harms people, teaching people not to accept people harms people.

[Conservative Speaker]

Sure.

[Xander Morix]

But teaching about LGBTQ + identities saves lives. I would. Reduces anxiety and depression.

[Conservative Speaker]

I guess my only question really would be if you're going to say that their suicidal rates and depression rise because people aren't affirming like gender.

[Xander Morix]

Right? Yes, they are.

[Conservative Speaker]

Where are all the tens of thousands, hundreds of of hundreds of thousands of suicides that just went unexplained the last 150 years?

[Xander Morix]

They're happening all the time. It's heartbreaking. They're happening all the time.

[Conservative Speaker]

You're saying there's mass graves of people who weren't gender affirmed in 1920.

[Xander Morix]

Trans people don't all get together and commit suicide together and then say we were trans the whole time. These are people that never came out as trans because of the hatred they experienced. Felt that they could never be themselves, killed themselves. We're seeing this happen all the time and it's heartbreaking.

[Conservative Speaker]

We're seeing an increase in. There is more.

[Xander Morix]

We're seeing increase of transphobia. And so we're seeing an increase in the rates of anxiety and depression amongst unaffirmed, uncared for trans individuals. When trans people receive gender affirming care or have access to affirming environments, we see suicide rates go down, anxiety go down, depression go down. Explain.

[Conservative Speaker]

I don't agree.

[Xander Morix]

It's a fact.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, well, there are two studies. There's one from April 2024. Two year 2424 month study, one from February 2025.

[Xander Morix]

What were the studies done by.

[Conservative Speaker]

They can fact check it. I don't remember off the top.

[Xander Morix]

I'm cite a lot more studies. Okay.

[Conservative Speaker]

But you can.

[Moderator]

That's time.

[Xander Morix]

There were studies though.

[Conservative Speaker]

You should look into them.

[Xander Morix]

I have. Thank you. My next claim is that anti LGBTQ policies are anti Christian and anti American.

[Conservative Speaker]

So let's start with the less obvious. Let's go anti American. What is. What is like your point in saying that? How is it anti American to say that Protecting our children. Right. Our children is our only thing we have. It's the future. Right, agreed. How's that? Anti American.

[Xander Morix]

Protecting our children would not be anti.

[Conservative Speaker]

American, but the LBGTQ policies anti those.

[Xander Morix]

Right.

[Conservative Speaker]

You're saying it's anti American?

[Xander Morix]

Yes.

[Conservative Speaker]

When you think of children. Right. You think of what? I have a nine year old.

[Xander Morix]

Right. I think of the future.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay. The future. Right. Do you have a child?

[Xander Morix]

No, I don't.

[Conservative Speaker]

Do you want children?

[Xander Morix]

Maybe.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, all right. So good. You want to have a child and you want this child to be, what? Protected? Correct?

[Xander Morix]

Absolutely.

[Conservative Speaker]

Can you hear me through that? Okay, good. When you think of your child being protected, what is an issue you don't agree with? What's something you don't agree with?

[Xander Morix]

Gun violence and health care costs.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay. Gun violence and health care costs. Do you come from a family that didn't have health care?

[Xander Morix]

I come from a family that struggled with health care access but had health care access. For me, that makes sense.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so you had it. So you don't want your child to be negatively influenced by gun violence. Correct?

[Xander Morix]

Correct.

[Conservative Speaker]

Or by not being able to have access to healthcare.

[Xander Morix]

Absolutely.

[Conservative Speaker]

So if there was an agenda, and I know you say there's not an agenda, but if there was a mass media awareness that's pushing a narrative of saying. And we kind of see it. Right. Guns in all the movies, right?

[Xander Morix]

Yeah.

[Conservative Speaker]

Guns in the music videos, guns in this. Rap, hip hop songs, all this stuff. You'd probably not want your child to be exposed to that, correct?

[Xander Morix]

No. I would make sure they're educated about what guns are, and I would make sure they're accessing this information at an age appropriate age. That's a false comparison because.

[Conservative Speaker]

Why is that a false comparison? It's still.

[Xander Morix]

Guns aren't people.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay.

[Xander Morix]

People in their intrinsic identities aren't murderous. Guns are designed to kill things. LGBT people are designed to exist and live and love.

[Conservative Speaker]

And they're humans, Correct.

[Xander Morix]

Work and be people. Yes. Okay.

[Conservative Speaker]

They're humans.

[Xander Morix]

Absolutely.

[Conservative Speaker]

So let's go with that. We'll take that angle. So you're talking about humans and you're saying that humans are designed to be themselves.

[Xander Morix]

Right.

[Conservative Speaker]

And intrinsically, this.

[Xander Morix]

Yes. We're getting so far away from.

[Conservative Speaker]

No, no, no. We're coming back because you're talking about anti American. And I said, I gave you that example of guns. So for me, as a mom, I don't want my child. And I'm just gonna say the Alphabet community because it's easier than LBGT's Alphabet.

[Xander Morix]

What about Queer and trans. I think queer and trans is easier.

[Conservative Speaker]

Queer and trans. All right, so I don't want my son exposed to queer and trans. You didn't say I was. You don't like the word agenda? I'm trying to be nice and queer and trans people. Queer and trans people. Okay. I don't want him exposed to that. I'm a Christian, and I'm faith based, and I believe I'm Christian too. My son should have his testicles intact until forever. Not until he's 18. I want him to have his testicles forever. And he actually just asked me about that last night. He said, mom, I think my testicles are dropping a little. I said, no, sweetheart, you're nine. Enjoy. You've got a long ways to go.

[Xander Morix]

Why?

[Conservative Speaker]

As parents, we want to protect our children as long as they can.

[Xander Morix]

Oh, 100%.

[Conservative Speaker]

Right. Okay. You agree we are in agreement with that?

[Xander Morix]

Yes. I love that. All right, so let's keep going.

[Conservative Speaker]

I would never, in my right mind let my son, first of all, attend a school, a public school. Second of all, attend a school that's.

[Xander Morix]

A privileged choice, and that's where they were able to make it correct.

[Conservative Speaker]

And I've worked very hard for that. Where there are clowns, as you called them, drag queens there?

[Xander Morix]

No, no, I made a comparison. That clowns are entertainers and drag queens.

[Conservative Speaker]

Are entertainers, but they are very much so different. A clown is.

[Xander Morix]

Depends on the context.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, let me finish. Let me just describe, and then we'll go.

[Xander Morix]

We're so far away from the queen.

[Conservative Speaker]

No, we're not. We're talking about. We're talking about an agenda here, and you're talking about it being anti American, anti faith, anti Christian. I'm saying that that's not the truth.

[Xander Morix]

No, I'm saying anti LGBTQ policies inherently contradict the fundamental values of Americanism and Christianity.

[Conservative Speaker]

It doesn't.

[Xander Morix]

What is the fundamental value of America?

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, well, we'll go back to Christianity, but let me finish my point as you said you would. Okay, so I'm not letting my son be exposed because you're kind of in denial, sweetheart. You're saying that a clown is the same thing or same humor. Hold on. Let me finish. Let me finish, please, dear. As the same as a drag queen. And I know for a fact what comes. If you just Google the word drag queen and children or kindergarten. You see what goes on those shows. The girls are in, or the men, rather, are in lingerie, in scantily clad, very, very sexually explicit behavior, crazy hair and makeup.

[Xander Morix]

Right.

[Conservative Speaker]

And it happens. As well as the infiltration of the books in our children's school, These trans books are being put into our kids school. I know for a fact that's why I pulled him. I saw these books in there. You said yourself, if you had a child, you would not want him exposed to things that you didn't approve of or you'd want him to be, quote, educated as to what is right. Why do we have to educate children to mental health challenges? When men decide to castrate themselves and take off their genitals and reattach new genitals and then they demand equal rights, that's not okay. And I'm not letting my child get exposed to that. That is anti Christian and that is anti American.

[Xander Morix]

Okay? So I don't find that to be a claim that addressed my claim at all. I would say that the fundamental value of American and the fundamental value of Christianity is love. And anti LGBTQ policies are contradictory to both of those beliefs. But back to your point, because you took us there, the majority of drag queen book hours have never had a reported incident. In fact, there's no pattern of reported incident. And there are cherry picked incidents where bad people did bad things, not because they're drag queens, but because they're bad people. And those incidents occur in less than a percent of places. So what I would say is that drag queens have no statistical correlation with, with pedophilic behavior, with sexual violence, or that's. Or holed up in the club or sexually exposing themselves to children. I think clubs are. Okay, we're getting so far away.

[Conservative Speaker]

American and faith based values. Let's go back to that American faith based values. Why the trans movement is not that or is antithesis of that.

[Xander Morix]

Trans people are people. What I am telling you is that if your child is exposed to trans and queer individuals, they're no more likely to decide to become trans or queer. Not true. Nope. It is true. It is statistically popular. Proven. It is so true. It is data driven. It is medically proven. It is psychologically proven. No, no, no. It's proven by hundreds of thousands of people. And I have no idea why you believe when you're not educated on this subject. Well, no, no, not in like a you don't know what you're talking about way, but in a you need a medical professional, you need a psychological professional to address this care. No, to address this care. What I'm saying is that your child is not endangered by witnessing their trans existence. It is true.

[Conservative Speaker]

That is not true. Let me give an example. I'll give you one.

Let's pause.

[Moderator]

You've been voted out by the majority. Please return.

[Conservative Speaker]

Thank you.

[Xander Morix]

Thank you.

[Conservative Speaker]

Hope you don't hate me.

First off, I would like to say that your question, I think, is worded very. How do I put it?

[Xander Morix]

It's not a question, but I'm saying anti LGBTQ policies are anti Christian and anti American. Which would you like to start with?

[Conservative Speaker]

So can you define for me what anti LGBTQ is?

[Xander Morix]

Yes. Policies that are against the LGBTQ plus community, hence anti anti.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay. So could you tell me what reasons why against it? Like, could you give me an example of legislation that is anti Christian that was also anti lgbtq?

[Xander Morix]

Can you give me examples? I would say because I am a Christian and I'm lgbtq, policies that go against me are anti Christian, and I would say because they contradict the fundamental values that we were taught as Christians, that they are anti Christian. So a couple of things. One, we were told to follow the Holy Spirit beyond the text. We were told that throughout life, while God's word is perfect and true, man's interpretation and understanding of it is not. For example, slavery. Can we agree that's wrong?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes.

[Xander Morix]

Interracial marriage. Can we agree that's beautiful?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes.

[Xander Morix]

Fantastic. Can we agree that we both should be able to eat shellfish and pork?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes.

[Xander Morix]

Fantastic. We continue to evolve our understanding when we have new information and perspectives. Jesus Christ incarnated not to tell us follow the Bible, but to help us understand it better. We once understood eye for an eye. Now we know it's turned cheek for cheek. And we were also told to measure people by their fruits. LGBTQ people bring love into the world. They benefit the economy. They bring safety into the world, while anti LGBTQ policies are proven to bring more death, more anxiety, and more depression. I'm not saying I don't understand your fear and concern. I'm saying when I rely on the data, the evidence, and the professionals, these policies kill children.

[Conservative Speaker]

I do not believe so. So. But they do so looking at Christianity, because you're the one who brought it up. In Matthew 18:6, Christ says, if any of you causes one of these little ones to stumble, it is better that a millstone is tied around your neck and you drown in the depths of the ocean.

[Xander Morix]

Yes. Absolutely.

[Conservative Speaker]

Not that they should be, but it's that they. It's better off that they would be. So what I'm trying to say is that.

[Xander Morix]

But you can't say that people are misguiding children by informing them about people that exist. When there is no data that that information causes young people to become queer and trans, the rise of young people identifying as queer and transfer more affirmation and safety. No one becomes gay. It's medically proven and it's been backed by data that you cannot, no matter what you do, turn someone gay. You can't do it.

[Conservative Speaker]

So how are they gay then?

[Xander Morix]

It is a biological characteristic.

[Conservative Speaker]

So it's like in their genetics. So it's in their genetics, essentially, yeah. Okay, so how could you spread the genes of being gay if you're gay? Like, I'm straight because my dad and.

[Xander Morix]

My mom maybe not genetics, it's in the biochemical reality of human existence. It's not something that's taught. It's not something that can be changed in an experience. And that has been proven through our.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so the only thing that we're born with essentially, is going to be our genetic code, which our parents pass down from us. And then after that, we have a blank slate of mind. And whatever is put into that blank slate of mind will alter our personality and our person. So you're right. There is no gauging because it's non existent. It's an inferior genetic. You cannot pass down the genetics of being gay if you're gay. Which is why I believe that people are being groomed to become gay, whether it happens when they're 2 years old, 10 years old, 13 years old, whether it's from the LGBTQ agenda, which I believe you and your allies are pushing, or if it's.

[Xander Morix]

Who are my allies?

[Conservative Speaker]

Who are your allies? I mean, I'm not very familiar with your work, but I understand that you are an LGBTQ activist. So I would say your allies are people who align with your values. At least a 90% oriental.

[Xander Morix]

So I am an activist and I work on political reform in the state of Florida focused primarily on school boards because they are currently attacking our children and they hold massive political opportunity to actually revolutionize the state. And I'm lgbtq.

[Conservative Speaker]

So how are these school boards attacking children in Florida?

[Xander Morix]

You want to go there?

[Conservative Speaker]

I would like to hear your claim on this.

[Xander Morix]

Let's do it. Okay, bet. So school boards in the state of Florida and all throughout the country have actually been listed part of Project 2025 as they stated, because they are politically vulnerable spaces that have low voter turnout, low community awareness, low investment. That is disproportionately easy when you take lots of money and invest them into the elections to change the results. So a couple years ago, we saw a massive sweep from candidates from Moms for Liberty and far right hate groups. We also saw Ron DeSantis become the very first governor in our state's history to endorse these candidates. Anti LGBTQ policies, which are anti Christian and anti Muslim.

[Conservative Speaker]

What have they done? They've done the harmless children.

[Xander Morix]

They banned books throughout the state. They told people they did not use restrooms. No, no, no. Okay. We always should. Born pornography in our school. Pornography in our schools would be evil. Erotica in our schools is not acceptable. What we see is age appropriate leveled reading that discusses topics that some might find uncomfortable in our school, but that.

[Conservative Speaker]

Is measured by psychology, which includes being gay, which is a combination.

[Xander Morix]

Well, I would say you would find being gay comfortable, whereas I would say it's a reality being gay.

[Conservative Speaker]

And I would say homosexual, which is a sexual thing. That is erotica. Because you're talking about sexual.

[Xander Morix]

No, being queer isn't inherently sexual. I'm not having sex with you right now because I'm lgbtq. I'm sitting at a table having a conversation with you.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so earlier you tried to claim that Gay Pride praise. We're not inherently sexual.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, so let's pause. They're not.

[Moderator]

We've been voted out.

[Xander Morix]

Hi.

[Conservative Speaker]

Nice to meet you. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit more about the anti Christian thing that you were saying. So I know that you said that Jesus. This is what you said. Jesus said that basically we follow the Holy Spirit. Does that mean that we can do whatever we want or what are the rules? Because within Christianity, there are a set of rules. Obviously, we're sinners. We're not going to follow them. The most important one, I would say, is to love others around you. But there's a lot of other ones that are important as well.

[Xander Morix]

Such as?

[Conservative Speaker]

Such as the sinning. Like, no lgbtq. That's a rule.

[Xander Morix]

Where does it say that in the Bible?

[Conservative Speaker]

Lust. It does say that a man cannot be with a man.

[Xander Morix]

Did you know that that was actually mistranslated and had to do with sexual violence, grooming, and ritualistic relationships?

[Conservative Speaker]

No. In the New Testament, it says that.

A man and a woman.

[Xander Morix]

In 1946, for the very first time, a man added the word homosexual to the Bible. That was never a part of God's word or God's choice. God gives perfect word and truth to man who has imperfect ear and an imperfect understanding. And so that's how we have things like slavery, which is never in God's vision, is not a part of love. It's not a graceful practice.

[Conservative Speaker]

There's lots of things in the Old Testament that don't pertain to today. Okay. In the New Testament. Now you're saying that it was misinterpreted. There's a lot of other things within that same sentence, such as you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery.

[Xander Morix]

You shall not.

[Conservative Speaker]

Man shall not be with man. So you're saying the only part within that sentence that was misinterpreted was man should not be with man. What about murder? Is that okay?

[Xander Morix]

No, I'm saying that one misrelation as well. No, I'm saying that one mistranslation contradicts what Jesus told us is the most important rule. He came to Earth and said, do not follow the Bible like a law. Use it as a loving, graceful practice, and follow my word.

[Conservative Speaker]

Ten Commandments. Those are laws. And the word of God says that these commandments are written on the tablets of your hearts.

[Xander Morix]

And what he told us through John 16:12 is that I cannot bestow all knowledge upon you now. You will learn more, you will experience more, and you will develop. Women have rights now. And even in the New Testament, they were disrespected, belittled, and they were not given these rights. And so what we're seeing is that we as people are imperfect beings. And the more that we develop our understanding, educate ourselves, meet new people, and follow the most important law, which is to love the other laws.

[Conservative Speaker]

What about we do not commit murder?

[Xander Morix]

Is that okay?

[Conservative Speaker]

You're disregarding the other laws.

[Xander Morix]

I have a point.

[Conservative Speaker]

Can I just say something? I think it's great that you're Christian. I think. I don't think, oh, if you're a sinner, you can't be Christian, because that's not what the Bible says.

[Xander Morix]

We're all sinners.

[Conservative Speaker]

The Bible says, come as you are, and you can be a Christian. But I don't believe that you're following Christ.

[Xander Morix]

I am following Christ. So let me make the point.

[Conservative Speaker]

But the thing is that you're hindering your walk with God.

[Xander Morix]

You're hindering your relationship with God. First of all, my walk with God is between me and God. And second of all, no, the important.

[Conservative Speaker]

Part about your sentence, from a Christian perspective, I do want to say, say that as when we speak about lgbtq, I know that it comes off as hatred, but it is from a place of caring.

[Xander Morix]

So as we can see that love is an action word, care is an action word. And the reason that one sentence is.

[Conservative Speaker]

Going downhill, when we look back from the beginning of time till now, it's Going downhill. And what's changing? And people are affirming transgenderism. People are affirming transgender people. So what is changing? That's changing. And as we see that happening, we.

[Xander Morix]

See less suicide, less depression, less anxiety.

[Conservative Speaker]

Suicide is going on.

[Xander Morix]

Queer and trans people who are affirmed and receive gender affirming care. Suicide rates don't go up amongst young people in a failing country with a failing healthcare system that denies them mental care. No, mental health care is the reason suicide rates are going up. There's no access to it in the United States. Gender affirming care is proven to lower suicide rates. What you said about that one sentence in the Bible that we have to go back to. The reason I believe we shouldn't murder people is because it's in clear alignment with God's greatest rule. Love everyone. Hating LGBTQ people is in clear contradiction. I can talk to you about that because of that. That. Hold on. I am continuing to follow the Holy Spirit and learn new things and extend grace, faith, and love to all. And that is how we concluded more rights, more people throughout history. Why would we stop?

[Conservative Speaker]

If someone is living in a life that is leading to destruction and we applaud them, do you think that's love? And we accept them and say, this is good, even though we don't find out.

[Xander Morix]

If someone's leading a life of destruction, we need to help. Your life is going to help point them out.

[Conservative Speaker]

Now your life is going to lead you to depression. Love is telling the truth, even when it's hard to hear.

[Xander Morix]

I hear house fire.

[Conservative Speaker]

I need to tell you to get out.

[Xander Morix]

The truth. Is the number one place queer and trans people experience the hatred that causes their suicide, depression, and anxiety rates to increase is actually hateful rhetoric from the Christian church. The number one population that is homeless in the state of New York City, in the state of New York are queer and trans young people who have been disavowed by their Christian families. Okay, and what number one would go to those people?

[Conservative Speaker]

That's the number one factor in this.

[Xander Morix]

He would. Okay, let's pause there.

[Moderator]

You've been voted out.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, thank you.

[Xander Morix]

I appreciate you.

[Conservative Speaker]

So I'm assuming from everything you're telling me that you think that God is okay with you practicing sodomy with other men.

[Xander Morix]

I am saying that God always acts in accordance with love. And the sodomy that was written about in the Bible has nothing to do with loving queer and trans relationships because there was no frame of reference for the phrases. Who created it? Man is imperfect. God's word is Perfect God would support queer and trans existence. Do you want to talk about why it's also anti American?

[Conservative Speaker]

You don't think that sodomy existed 2,000 years ago?

[Xander Morix]

I do think it existed 2,000 years ago. And you don't think that God and the way that it was written about in the Bible was about hateful, unconsensual, pedophilic, ritualistic acts of sodomy? There have been healthy queer and trans relationships all throughout the history, and they were not included in the Bible the same way women's rights were not included in the Bible. God did not intend us to treat that like a law that we never move on from. He treated us to use it like a way to learn love and practice. It is not an instruction manual. It is one tool that we can.

[Conservative Speaker]

Use to live our lives. You do think. But to clarify, so you do think that God is okay with you having sex with other men?

[Xander Morix]

Yes. Okay. So I feel particularly close to God when I have sex with other men.

[Conservative Speaker]

That's literally okay. So I think that your definition of love is basically what feels good for you and also being nice to other people.

[Xander Morix]

I think love is more complicated than that. For example, you can have a sexual relationship with someone that you might not love, whereas love is a deeper emotion of care.

[Conservative Speaker]

But basically it's just like this fluffy feeling of like, oh, I like you, I'm treating you well, whatever. I think that love is willing the good of another person.

[Xander Morix]

Love is a hard action.

[Conservative Speaker]

You can have consensual sex with someone and that's not loving them. Because participating in homosexual acts is inherently not loving. Because it's damaging.

[Xander Morix]

They're not inherently damaging. It violates natural law. It's not inherently damaging. It doesn't violate natural law. They're overwhelming 1,000 species. Your body is not proven to have queer relationships.

[Conservative Speaker]

God literally designed.

[Xander Morix]

Why does the G spot exist? I don't know.

[Conservative Speaker]

God literally designed male bodies.

[Xander Morix]

Let's not pretend to know God's vision.

[Conservative Speaker]

How about this?

[Xander Morix]

Let's not pretend to know God's vision.

[Conservative Speaker]

How come 12% of men who have sex with other men one or more times a week have problems where they are not able to control their bowel movements?

[Xander Morix]

Because when do you. Well, what. Why?

[Conservative Speaker]

If it's healthy, if it's perfectly healthy.

[Xander Morix]

And you know that's so there are medical facts.

[Conservative Speaker]

That doesn't mean that I hate you. It means I don't want you doing something that's not natural and it's not healthy and it's not good for you or for society?

[Xander Morix]

There's a reason gay men can't reproduce.

[Conservative Speaker]

There's a reason why gay women can't reproduce with these bodies.

[Xander Morix]

Not an essential factor of love and care. It is not the essential factor of a relationship. And the things that you are saying, even pieces of rhetoric that aren't grounded in science.

[Conservative Speaker]

Absolutely not evil. You don't think it's scientific that it's more harmful to have gay sex than straight sex?

[Xander Morix]

It's not more harmful.

[Conservative Speaker]

It obviously is. That's why there's more STD rates.

[Moderator]

So, okay, that's timed.

[Xander Morix]

My last claim is politicians banning books is more dangerous than drag queens reading them.

[Conservative Speaker]

Hey, again.

[Xander Morix]

Hello. Hello.

[Conservative Speaker]

Get a little more time this time.

[Xander Morix]

Let's do it.

[Conservative Speaker]

Alrighty. First, I guess I want to say wouldn't both. I guess from the arguments that I've heard, I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Are they not both propaganda? Kind of like going back to that question where we went to grooming. Right. We go to grooming. I think when it came to that argument, in my opinion, I think where you were getting confused was that you were getting propaganda. I've said that's why I said, in my opinion, how I interpreted.

[Xander Morix]

Response.

[Conservative Speaker]

How I interpreted is that when you were phrasing things, it was in my head. You should have been substituting propaganda. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Grooming is like forcing a belief upon somebody.

[Xander Morix]

I believe that's how I'm always physical.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah.

[Xander Morix]

But propaganda is political communication.

[Conservative Speaker]

Now. These kids are being given information at a young age and they're just making the choice. It's just more appealing to those kids.

[Xander Morix]

It's also about the impact. A lot of this information is lies and it leads to direct harm for those children and other children around them. And it is meant to be done to change their thinking and patterns of behavior such that Donald Trump and Elon Musk are able to exploit them for power. But right now we're discussing book bans and drag queens. Would you agree that politicians banning books, which has only ever in human history led to authoritarianism, is more dangerous than drag queens reading books, which has proven to have no correlation to sexual violence whatsoever?

[Conservative Speaker]

Well, I guess it's.

[Xander Morix]

I think we should admit that a drag queen, which is almost always a man in a fun women's costume.

[Conservative Speaker]

Fun is relative. Fun is. That's a relative.

[Xander Morix]

In adult spaces, it is often more sexy. So what we're saying is, I think it's just a hard piece of imagery. For people who don't want diverse gender expression to swallow. And so we're like, oh, that's sexual violence. Oh, they're trying to sexualize their children. But psychologists and medical doctors have actually evaluated those events because of how many horrible claims that have been made on a baseless, baseless amount of hatred. And what we found is that there is no sexual violence, there is no sexual perversion, and there is no increase in sexual confusion. That's the most important part, because I can understand someone saying, oh, the drag queen has the best of intention, but now my child is confused. They measured it, they tracked it, they studied it. The child doesn't get confused. The child sees someone in a fun costume. They're like, that is fun. And suddenly reading, which is very boring for many young children. They're willing to pay attention. They're willing to be there. And what we also see is queer and trans children in this.

[Conservative Speaker]

Can I answer the first question?

[Xander Morix]

Are less likely to be depressed and anxious when they witness someone who is experiencing diverse gender expression in their space? Yes.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so once again. So I'm going to go back to propaganda, because I really think that's what this question is about. There are two ways to do that. Propaganda, which, again, every. We'll say agenda. As we've established before, I'm not saying that LGBT has an agenda, but it's got a title. Therefore, it probably has a group that has an agenda. If it's got a title, clearly you guys agreed on something, right? I think that's fair to say. I'm just. I think everything that would have a title, clearly there's a group.

[Xander Morix]

Do women have a coordinated political agenda? Do white people have.

[Conservative Speaker]

Are they feminists? Are they. I mean, I think everybody does. As somebody else said, everyone has an agenda. You can't say that you don't have.

[Xander Morix]

You're describing people fighting for their human rights.

[Conservative Speaker]

Well, human rights. Well, I guess that's a whole nother debate itself. But point being, human rights are not up for debate. Point being, propaganda can be done in two ways. You can remove certain things, or you can heavily promote certain things. Why do we see in so many shows and movies nowadays that there's usually a gay character or some form of LGBT representation? Right, Right.

Okay.

That's one thing.

[Xander Morix]

That's because it's proven to save lives.

[Conservative Speaker]

And we don't see it.

[Xander Morix]

Only a decade ago did we start seeing that representation.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yet you don't have a positive, conservative character. There are far more conservative people than gay people. So I'm just Saying, like, it's all propaganda. Both sides can do it. Don't say it's not. So I think neither is worse than the other. I think it's just one side using this.

[Xander Morix]

Would you agree that book bans are worse than drag queens reading books?

[Conservative Speaker]

No, not at all. I think. I think they're. I mean, I think they're. They're a way that one side chooses to promote their argument or display the.

[Xander Morix]

Other one about where the wild things are, are. What's wrong about Charlotte's Web?

[Conservative Speaker]

I mean, is it the context or the actual. I mean, because you can read between the lines and things that people say.

[Xander Morix]

No, no, no, no. See, Charlotte's Web was banned because animals were speaking and one parent decided that was witchcraft. Now none of the parents in the district get to make the child.

[Conservative Speaker]

Did a city council have to pass a law that allowed them to. That allowed them to ban those books? Did some state. Wait, then how did they get banned?

[Xander Morix]

In many instances, school boards hire a singular professional who accept singular complaints. Any books based off of singular complaint.

[Conservative Speaker]

People that we trust in make decisions.

[Xander Morix]

We did not elect the person they paid to go into our schools, tarp.

[Conservative Speaker]

Our libraries, remove our power to choose an independent person. To do that, we allow those people.

[Xander Morix]

Were elected and now people.

[Conservative Speaker]

The majority chose those people to then pick somebody else on their behalf. It's the same with electors and elections.

[Xander Morix]

What happens? We don't pick the electors, but we.

[Conservative Speaker]

Picked the people who picked them.

[Moderator]

You've been voted out.

[Conservative Speaker]

Hello.

[Xander Morix]

Hello, Will. Hi, Will.

[Conservative Speaker]

All right, so you said, like, Charlotte's Web is getting banned. That's silly. I also think it's silly if one parent runs the whole thing.

[Xander Morix]

Right.

[Conservative Speaker]

But for sure, that's not every book being banned. Like, you know, I'm sure you've heard of genderqueer. Yeah, Stuff like that should not be in schools. It's pornographic.

[Xander Morix]

I think it should be available at an age appropriate level. Do I think elementary schoolers need to be reading genderqueer? No.

[Conservative Speaker]

And in terms of, like, you know, Republican bills in Florida, like, you know, I don't think, especially K through 3, that there should be any official curriculum being taught to kids that is telling them about sexual orientation. However, I wouldn't go the extra mile and say, like, we should get rid of every book that just mentions a gay character in the library. That's not a part of.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, I love that we're inching there. What I would say is that there has never been a democracy that lasted when it started banning books. Every single civilization that has ever started banning books turned into a fascist regime. And to me, that's very frightening. And to me, the justifications of it being rooted in marginalized communities and their identities. The majority of banned books discuss queer, trans, black and brown identities. That feels to me like a very quick trend towards fascism. And so when that's being perpetuated by someone who's saying, I want to be king, there's going to be a third term for president. I'm like, oh, fascist recipe coming together very quickly.

[Conservative Speaker]

I know, I don't agree with the third term bullshit.

[Xander Morix]

Right. What are we talking about? George W. Did a lot of work just for him to be like, no, sorry, backtrack.

[Conservative Speaker]

What were we just talking about? Just before you mentioned book bans.

[Xander Morix]

Book bans and how they're worse than drag queens reading books.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, well, first of all, they're not being banned in the sense that none of these books are banned in the state of Florida. They're being banned in, like local school boards, like you're saying. So there's no actual government law that's being written to ban books, books.

[Xander Morix]

What are school boards? They're, you know, forms of government. And they're banning books as a part of a national coordinated strategy that was written in Project 2025 as a part of a fascist plan to overtake the stated intention is overtake the government.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, but you know, you know, I could say I don't. I think it should be more than just one complaint, but I think parents coming forward to school boards and local government levels because local politics is good.

[Xander Morix]

I'm not a fan of local politics.

[Conservative Speaker]

I like local politics. So it's, it's different than a statewide ban on books in Florida, which is not happening.

[Xander Morix]

Yeah, I agree that local governments are banning books and that is bad. Okay.

[Conservative Speaker]

And in terms of the drag queen story hour, what is the upside to that? Why don't we have firefighters or veterans coming?

[Xander Morix]

That's a good question. It actually creates safety and new gender experiences for queer and trans children who don't feel safe. And so we've actually found is queer and trans children who do have drag queen story hours, they actually have higher rates of affirmation, less suicide, depression, anxiety. And I think that matters. Okay.

[Moderator]

I've been voted out by the majority.

[Conservative Speaker]

Hi, how are you? Nice to meet you.

[Xander Morix]

So, B.B.

[Conservative Speaker]

Bell, I would like to start off by saying that I'm not anti gay. As a Republican, I believe in freedom. You know, less regulations, less laws, and the freedom to be gay.

[Xander Morix]

Me too.

[Conservative Speaker]

However, when you're saying banning books. I do believe that there needs to be. Needs to be some age restrictions on certain books.

Agree.

We shouldn't be teaching children about sexuality so early or being transgender, changing your gender. They can't even learn to drive a car yet.

[Xander Morix]

That makes lots of sense. And I think what we should teach people about is diverse identities. I don't think we need to be talking about graphic sex with elementary schoolers. On that, we'd entirely agree. I think saying, hey, some gay people exist. Make sure you don't spit at them. I think that's a great thing to do because young people are most able to learn that information at the young age. And so what the psychology and the data shows us is that when they have those discussions, it actually not only benefits queer and trans students, but all students, including straight CIS students, become safer, more productive members of society. And it actually, and this is my fun, crazy statistic, it actually benefits the economy.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, I do see what you mean. That being said, I just feel like we shouldn't be talking about that around children. I think that's. That's something they should figure out for themselves, whether they agree with or not. Obviously, we also shouldn't have hateful books towards the gay community for them to read. I don't think any sort of hate teaching to children is okay. Also, the drag queen thing, that's just weird to me. Why are you having a person that's dressed up as a different gender reading to children? Like, I wouldn't bring my kid to something like that.

[Xander Morix]

And you don't need to.

[Conservative Speaker]

I think it's just strange.

[Xander Morix]

And I think that if you don't want to, you definitely shouldn't. I think that it should be an option for parents who do want to, because what we see is that many parents who are raising queer and trans children or children that they believe might be questioning their sexuality or gender, the.

[Conservative Speaker]

Word queer children shouldn't even be a thing.

[Xander Morix]

But people, that's weird. Queer children doesn't mean sexualized children or children who are having sex. It means people who have a queer.

[Conservative Speaker]

Relationship to be straight. Yet why are we teaching them to be queer?

[Xander Morix]

As young as second grade, there are reports of people feeling like they have crushes on people and blowing kisses. Because we are all in a society where relationships are discussed.

[Conservative Speaker]

We're like.

[Xander Morix]

But queer. Queer just means not straight. It doesn't mean, like, devil.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so it just means not straight. Because from my understanding, from what I've heard, queer means you like everybody, no matter what.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, that's A. That's a misconception exception. So. So instead of saying lgbtq, which everyone in this room said they wouldn't be willing to say, I was like, let's switch it to queer. Queer used to be a long time ago. A horrible word. Exactly.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yeah.

[Xander Morix]

And then the LGBTQ community reclaimed it and basically said, if you are not straight, let queer be an umbrella term that serves you. Because if we do keep adding letters, no one's gonna say anything. No one's gonna be respectful. So queer encompasses all of the identities, and it's, you're gay, you're lesbian, you're bisexual.

[Conservative Speaker]

Why can't you just be one of those? Why do you have to be queer.

[Xander Morix]

In terms of just language that encompasses and includes everyone in the LGBTQ community? And like I said there, that already doesn't have an I. It doesn't have the A. It's already not fully inclusive. And so instead of continuing to add letters, we say queer and trans.

[Conservative Speaker]

But I have an issue with that, because gay and trans are two totally different things. Why are you grouping them within the same thing? Some gay people don't like trans people.

[Xander Morix]

We entirely agree that sex and gender are different things. What I am saying is that the lgbtq. It is what you said.

[Conservative Speaker]

No, it's not.

[Xander Morix]

But the LGBTQ community is called a community because these are people that have been pushed out of societal norm and persecuted in the same ways by the same people for differences in their innate characteristic of who they are as a human being, and because it is so similar in the styles of persecution and because we shouldn't further divide marginalized communities. The queer and trans community are a community. Our struggles are interlinked. Stonewall the first protest. What is known to start the LGBTQ community because is an interlinked movement of resistance between queer and trans people.

[Conservative Speaker]

Gay and trans are two totally different topics. They're different things.

[Xander Morix]

They are. And they're trans community.

[Conservative Speaker]

Trans and being gay, liking a certain gender and wanting to.

[Xander Morix]

Why is it important for you to instinctualize the two?

[Conservative Speaker]

Because why are we grouping them?

[Xander Morix]

Why is it important for you to make those two communities distinct?

[Conservative Speaker]

Because you just named them all queer. They're not all queer.

[Xander Morix]

Who's not all queer?

[Conservative Speaker]

Gay is not the same thing. You're putting them under one umbrella.

[Xander Morix]

No, no. I said queer and trans. Trans.

[Conservative Speaker]

Huh?

[Xander Morix]

I said queer and trans. Queer is a term that describes difference in sexuality.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay.

[Xander Morix]

Or sexual orientation.

[Conservative Speaker]

Fine. But as I said, I'm not getting anywhere with this with you. Gay and trans are two different Things.

[Xander Morix]

Yes.

[Conservative Speaker]

They shouldn't be put under the same umbrella.

No. Okay.

Okay.

[Moderator]

So you voted out by the majority.

[Conservative Speaker]

Thank you.

[Moderator]

So, quick question. Do you think people are born gay or trans?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes.

[Moderator]

So you think kids are born trans?

[Xander Morix]

I think they're born trans, yes.

[Moderator]

Okay, so you would be okay with them getting any type of either brain scans or anything before they go through medical transition then, right? That way. That way. Because, you know, 13, which you stated was 1%, was actually 13 of people do d transition. So to avoid that. No, they could bring it up. I'll even show the study on my phone to you right now.

[Xander Morix]

Well, I'm sure you have things that say that, but it doesn't make it true.

[Moderator]

So this. You're just invalidating stuff that's not true. You're invalidating the entire study. Let me. Let me ask you this. Are you okay with this medical transition if they get brain scans before the medical transition?

[Xander Morix]

What are you talking about?

[Moderator]

Okay, so how do you know someone's born trans? Give me the definition. How do you know they're born trans?

[Xander Morix]

So transgender is when your gender is not the same as your birth sex.

[Moderator]

Okay.

[Xander Morix]

And so when someone says, I'm transgender, then I'm like, okay, so you're transgender.

[Moderator]

Okay, so how do you know they're born that way?

[Xander Morix]

They know and they tell us. And then we see that when we affirm their gender, their lifespan and their quality of life, life increases. So you.

[Moderator]

There's no objective way to measure it? It's all subjective, right?

[Xander Morix]

No.

[Moderator]

Okay, so what's objective measurement that someone's born trans.

[Xander Morix]

An objective measurement that someone is born trans.

[Moderator]

Correct.

[Xander Morix]

When they say that they are born trans, that is deeply important. But also, there's differences in the actual brain of trans people that correlates to their gender.

[Moderator]

Like what?

[Xander Morix]

They are more similar to that of their gender than their birth sex.

[Moderator]

Okay, so that's an objective way to measure, in your opinion?

[Conservative Speaker]

Correct.

[Xander Morix]

Well, it is a fact. Objective way to measure it.

[Moderator]

So then we could agree that kids should have this brain scan before they medically transition. Correct. Wouldn't that be a good middle ground?

[Xander Morix]

I would say that.

[Moderator]

Because you say there's an objective way to measure it. Correct.

[Xander Morix]

I am saying that that is one objective reality of the trans existence. What I am saying is that because all queer and trans people who are transitioning as young people in the United States do so with about three to five medical professionals, I trust that those medical professionals know more about that individual than I do. Someone is not just saying, oh, this Kid says they're trans, let's go, let's give them hormones. What actually happens is a young person feels a deep amount of distress in who they are based on something they had no control over. They share that with their parents. In the majority of cases, the parent who wants to keep their child alive brings them to a psychologist or a psychiatrist. They work with that medical professional for many years. They bring in endocrine specialists, and they work together for years to decide what is the right path of treatment, when, how, and with who.

[Moderator]

So they have no control over it? Right.

[Xander Morix]

Over being trans?

[Moderator]

Yeah. You have no control over it.

[Xander Morix]

Correct.

[Moderator]

So the detransition rate shouldn't be 13. Right.

[Xander Morix]

So the majority of people who do transition. Why do the majority of people detransition.

[Moderator]

Anxiety and someone suffering from gender dysphoria? What's the distinct difference?

[Xander Morix]

So puberty anxiety is. Oh, my gosh. I'm very worried that my characteristics are going to. To change who I am as a person. Other people are. Oh my God. I'm worrying that puberty is going to permanently lock me into a body that is not mine, and I will never be able to prevent the changes that I go through with puberty. And so a partially reversible option is puberty blockers. That is actually proven to save lives. That's what matters to me, is lives saved of young people.

[Moderator]

So if you care about lives saved, then why do you dismiss the Oxford study of 108,000 patients when their depression, anxiety, substance use, and suicide. Suicide.

[Xander Morix]

Talk about the increase study, talk about the methodology. Why do you talk about the people who ran the study? Talk about the peer review process?

[Moderator]

You just don't like the study because it doesn't affirm your belief though, right?

[Xander Morix]

No, no, I'm saying it's a broken study.

[Moderator]

Give me one study that you. That you think is good.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, I would say the study is done by 270, 000 doctors. Okay, which one? See, the American.

[Moderator]

It's the same thing.

[Xander Morix]

You have to talk about the same.

[Moderator]

Thing because it doesn't affirm.

[Xander Morix]

No, you're not. You don't know anything about your study, whereas I know everything about the American Medical association study, the American Psychological association study, the American Psychiatric association study, the American Pediatric association study, the World Health Organization study, and countless global doctors who have referred and peer reviewed those studies. Your study. I would like you to talk about the methodology, how it was peer reviewed, and how you're citing it. Because what I do know about your study is not only are you manipulating it but it's broken in its process.

[Moderator]

Okay, so the cast review study's bad. The Swedish study about puberty blockers is bad.

[Xander Morix]

That one is literally prevalent.

[Moderator]

The UK Health, the Finland, the Denmark, all their health departments that say puberty blockers aren't safe.

[Xander Morix]

Not all studies run well because some studies can be broken, some studies aren't accurate, and some studies aren't well done. And so I'm not saying I don't like your facts. I'm saying the conversation we're having about the studies you're referencing don't attribute to the greater conversation we're having about LGBTQ people because of the ideologies and methodologies and practice of those studies. What I'm saying is the largest global medical organizations unanimously agree that queer and transgender affirming care. It is unanimous. That's what makes it special.

[Moderator]

It's not a medical consensus.

[Xander Morix]

That's why it's so important. I didn't say medical consensus. I said the majority of health organizations that are the largest in the world and in the country all unanimously agree it's actually not true that queer. It is true.

[Moderator]

You just don't want to believe it because it doesn't affirm your reality. That's the problem.

[Xander Morix]

You want to believe it because it does. But when it's peer reviewed, when it's fact checked, and when people actually look into your studies, they realize that they're false. You would be able to reference more. You'd be able to reference peer reviewed sources, you'd be able to reference medically established institutions, you would be able to reference, reference things that are respected in the greater medical community.

[Moderator]

There's a perfect middle ground. You don't want to reach a middle ground. Here's the middle ground I would like to do. So if people are born trans and we could see in their brain scans, then you'd be okay with a, with a brain scan before they medically transition. That's really good middle ground. That's a really good middle ground.

[Xander Morix]

The information there is new.

[Moderator]

So you don't want to reach the middle ground of it.

[Xander Morix]

No, what I'm saying is I trust the medical professionals who found that information to continue to, to study it and decide what is the best practice to apply it to life saving health care. If I see medical practices that put young people in harm's way, I would advocate.

[Moderator]

So it's life saving to stop the natural biology of someone inject them with synthetic hormones and then do gender reassignment surgery. That's life saving.

[Xander Morix]

Scary when you say it like that?

[Moderator]

Is that correct?

[Xander Morix]

But yes. Life saving to take a scalpel, cut someone open, go into, remove a part of their heart, zip them back up. That's also life.

[Moderator]

Let me ask you this. How do they know they're in the wrong body if they haven't even hit puberty, where the body is fully developed yet?

[Xander Morix]

It is not about the physical characteristic of me feeling my fingernails and being like, wow, these are my fingernails. It is having to do with who you are as a human being. Your innate human identity, which is gender not aligning with your birth sex. If you go through puberty, the majority of changes.

[Moderator]

How long do they go on puberty blockers?

[Xander Morix]

It depends on the individual.

[Moderator]

How long? Okay, let's pause there. That's time.

[Xander Morix]

Xander will now choose a conservative to debate for 10 minutes on a claim of their choosing. I'm going to choose Mike. I feel like we're going to have a productive conversation.

[Conservative Speaker]

All right, so my claim is Xander, correct?

[Xander Morix]

Yeah. Okay.

[Conservative Speaker]

My claim is Xander and LGBTQ people have a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity.

[Xander Morix]

Okay, what is the point of your claim?

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay, so back when you were talking earlier, a lot of presuppositions. So you made the. The claim that you are a Christian. I am also a Bible believing Jesus follower. Contrary to popular belief, the Bible says once you claim to be a Christian, it's free game as far as, like, judgment. So if I'm a Christian, like, people can judge me, I can judge you. Like, it's like non believers, pagans, not really, you know, concerned about them. But if you're a Christian, there is certain standards. So we kind of made a lot of claims, especially in the totality of our conversation, as far as, like, okay, middle political consensus, we kind of like, we're throwing out specific terms. But when it comes to the Christian faith, when it comes to Christian religion, there is a. I mean, depending if you're Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant, there is a centralized authority. There is historical, biblical, traditional teachings, things that have been practiced and understood for 2000s, thousands of years. Right. So when it comes to things like progressive ideologies, specifically what we're seeing in the 21st century, a lot of progressive Christian beliefs are very specific, specific political beliefs. They're not faith beliefs, they're political beliefs.

[Xander Morix]

Who does Christ tell us has the right to judge? Christians?

[Conservative Speaker]

Other Christians.

[Xander Morix]

No.

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes.

[Xander Morix]

Christ actually tells Christians that they should not judge other Christians and that instead he says.

[Conservative Speaker]

He says you will know them by their fruit.

[Xander Morix]

Exactly, exactly. And that if you cast the first stone and if you use the biblic text or the word of God to tell other people what to do or live their lives. You within yourself are casting sin and sitting within it. And so what we know. What we know. What we know is that God himself is the judge. And what we are to do is to hold our relationship with God, let others hold their relationships with God and prevent harm. What I am saying is that LGBTQ existences and relationships do not create harm. Murder creates harm. I would say Christians have an obligation to call out and stop murderous policies when they see them.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay?

[Xander Morix]

So because there is not a correlation of harm that would call out the word of Christ, that is what we're seeing there. I am going to have to have a very hard conversation about the fact that. That the original biblic text would have destroyed life for millions of good Christian Americans. So what we did is we listened to the Bible and we listened to the word of Christ, who said, you do not know everything yet. Do not treat the Bible like a law. Follow the Holy Spirit, Be inspired by it, and follow it through grace. Because we do so, we learn to bring in new people into the Christian faith, support them, include them, affirm them.

[Conservative Speaker]

You're saying a lot of presuppositions, and you're saying a lot of things that. That, like back. Back when you were making the claim, right? When everyone was bringing up different studies and things that were happening, you were saying, that's fundamentally not true. The things that you're saying right now are fundamentally not true specifically because of what it's written in Scripture, right? So there's people who, like, I'm not going to get into the debate of, like, sola scriptura and whether or not, like, Christians only look at the text or tradition, stuff like that.

[Xander Morix]

But the word of God says we shouldn't do that.

[Conservative Speaker]

But the point I'm making. So even so, again, the reason why I said had fundamental misunderstanding is because when it comes to reading the text and understanding the text, there's no form of, like, exegesis. There's no form of understanding context. There's no form of looking at the text and saying, hey, what is actually happening here?

[Xander Morix]

There is a word in the text from Christ that says, do not treat this like a law. And I haven't told you everything yet. John 16:12 literally says, you do not have all the information. Now, I have not burdened you with all of the information.

[Conservative Speaker]

They'll throw the Bible verse.

[Xander Morix]

And I said it less pretty.

[Conservative Speaker]

I'll give you one example. I'll give you one example. Based off a point I believe you're trying to make. So when the Bible talks about don't judge others. When you have a plank in your eye, you're looking at the speck in your brother's eye. When you have a plank in your eye, that's not saying that you cannot judge. It's saying that when you do judge, make sure that you are holding yourself to a specific standard. Right. We read it in Timothy and James when it talks about it also holding.

[Xander Morix]

Yourself to a certain standard unharmed practices and to offer grace, to author faith, to offer love. It also says that if you use the text to tell other people how to live their lives, and that is.

[Conservative Speaker]

Not Christ, you're vehemently misquoting Christ.

[Xander Morix]

So do you believe women should have rights?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes.

[Xander Morix]

Then if we were to follow this lane of thinking, women would not have rights.

[Conservative Speaker]

Who fundamentally pushed for better positions for women?

[Xander Morix]

Good Christians.

[Conservative Speaker]

Christians. Yes, historically. Right. So if you talk.

[Xander Morix]

And now good Christians throughout the world are pushing to include LGBTQ people in the name of the Holy Spirit.

[Conservative Speaker]

What does it mean to be a Christian? What is a Christian?

[Xander Morix]

A Christian is someone who acts with love and the word of God.

[Conservative Speaker]

What is love?

[Xander Morix]

What is love?

[Conservative Speaker]

Yes.

[Xander Morix]

Love is an action word. Love is showing care for other human beings in a sustainable, true way.

[Conservative Speaker]

Okay. So I would say that is a very watered down understanding of what love is.

[Xander Morix]

What would you say love is?

[Conservative Speaker]

So love in my. And I've actually been thinking about this. Love is the obligation to encourage others to pursue a life that will abundantly reconcile them with God.

[Xander Morix]

That's your definition of love. Half of loving relationships in the world wouldn't fit within that. So my definition works way better and Christian. No, A man and a wife don't fit under the role of holding each other exclusively accountable. It's also about care. It's about compassion. It's about grace.

[Conservative Speaker]

See, again, you're misunderstanding. Marriage is a specific institution that God put in place as an example for our heavenly marriage. To him.

To Christ.

No, that is the purpose of that.

[Xander Morix]

Originally, marriage, as discussed in the original text, was not like a loving marriage that we see today. What we see today is a new version of that because we continue to follow the Holy Spirit today.

[Conservative Speaker]

It's perverted. People marry for love. People marry for very superficial things and.

[Xander Morix]

Not for pop force, which I would say is great.

[Conservative Speaker]

I would say for power. People in the past married for power.

[Xander Morix]

Marriage is a power plan and also sometimes literally property. I'm not just like saying sure and historically.

[Conservative Speaker]

Right.

[Xander Morix]

And in the Bible. Yes.

[Conservative Speaker]

So again, my point is there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the text. Because you said.

[Xander Morix]

I agree.

[Conservative Speaker]

Because you, you, because you said Christianity means to love. People always say things like, oh, the greatest commandment is to love. Again, when I talk about context, the greatest commandment is love in the context of the Ten Commandments. So in that conversation where they're Talking about the Ten Commandments, the Ten Commandments is. First of all, the Ten Commandments is a summary of like more than 600 laws, right? That the, that that were in place not just in Old Testament Israel, but.

[Xander Morix]

Also he fulfilled those laws.

[Conservative Speaker]

Hold on, hold on.

[Xander Morix]

And he added meaning to them. Because God's word is perfect, but man's understanding of it is not.

[Conservative Speaker]

Man's understanding is not. And that's why Christ came and corrected us. So my point is exactly. The context of the Ten Commandments, right? Is in the context of there was more than 600 laws. It boiled it down to 10, and then Jesus boiled it down to 2, which people like to quote, love your neighbor. The first is actually love the Lord your God, right? In the context of the Ten Commandments, it is my theological opinion that the greatest commandment is when God says, be holy, for I am holy.

[Xander Morix]

I respect that.

[Conservative Speaker]

The reason why is because again, my point is the fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity. Your position is that Christianity means that come as you are, stay as you are. That is fundamentally not true.

[Xander Morix]

I didn't say that.

[Conservative Speaker]

You are saying it because I think.

[Xander Morix]

That Christians like you that use the Bible and the word of God to hate others need to reflect on that and become more Christ like.

[Conservative Speaker]

So you agree with my point when I said that your understanding of love is to affirm that is not a biblical definition of love.

[Xander Morix]

I'm not telling you you need to change your faith. I'm saying that it's my.

[Conservative Speaker]

I'm not talking about faith in these actions and behaviors. I'm saying that if a Christian believes that if I have a child and I believe that child is made in the image of God and God made them male or God made them female, and then someone comes along and says that they're not male or they're not female, that is contrary that it comes as a divide between what God.

[Xander Morix]

That is you thinking that you know that person relationship with God better than they do. It's not about their relationship with God showed them who they were and it is our duty to love and support them as Jesus Christ.

[Conservative Speaker]

Again, fundamental mission. I'm not talking about Jesus Christ supported sex workers. I'm not talking about their relationship with God. So you brought up sex workers, Right. The adulterous woman comes. The Pharisees brought the adulterous woman to Jesus. Said, we caught her in the act. Right. Some people say it's like, how did the Pharisees catch her in the act?

[Xander Morix]

Right?

[Conservative Speaker]

It's like, what were they doing? Shady Jesus, in his proper context of love, criticized them. Says, he without sin, casts the first stone.

[Xander Morix]

I would say you're bringing LGBTQ people to Jesus and saying they're bad. And he would say, it's not, they're bad. Mind your business. And he would affirm the love of us. And even beyond that example, I don't think he would tell us to do anything differently because there is nothing harmful being done. I even think in today's worldview, sex work would be respected by Christ.

[Conservative Speaker]

And this is why I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding. And this isn't just a progressive LGBT issue. I think there are people in general who have a misunderstanding what Christianity is about. Christianity isn't good guys and bad guys.

[Xander Morix]

Agreed.

[Conservative Speaker]

Christianity is, we're all bad guys. We're all bad guys.

[Xander Morix]

We're all imperfect.

[Conservative Speaker]

No. We're all fundamentally sinful. It's not, we're imperfect.

[Xander Morix]

We are all sin.

[Conservative Speaker]

We are all fundamentally.

[Xander Morix]

I think it's unhealthy to think we're all bad people. I think we all sin. I think we're all God's creation.

[Conservative Speaker]

We are bad in the context of we are not God. So the way I kind of define sin, it's not a matter of, you did this, you did that. Sin basically means to miss the mark, right? It means that God is the standard, and we will never meet that standard. So to me, sin simply means I am not God and I'm not capable of being God. And because I'm not God, I am not holy. And because of that, the Bible says I'm born into sin, right? So when I say fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity when it comes to specific. Specifically progressives, LGBT groups, is that they think it's like, okay, yeah, we're imperfect, right? But it's more of a Gnostic understanding. It's like, well, we strive each day, and as we gain more knowledge, as we read more studies, we'll somehow attain some kind of, like, understanding that we'll get closer to the.

[Xander Morix]

So you brought up Measure by the fruit. And I would say that when we view LGBTQ people, what are the fruit? I'm about to describe it in the context of our conversation. If we measure LGBT people in their fruit and what they produce for this world and how they contribute and how they show up and how they exemplify. It is positive, it is good, and it adds value to our experience.

[Conservative Speaker]

What is the Bible says that when.

[Xander Morix]

We think about anti LGBTQ policies, we see harmful the fruit of the Spirit. I think that's up for interpretation. For me, it's what we bring to the world.

[Conservative Speaker]

The Bible literally says what the fruit of the Spirit is.

[Xander Morix]

I know, but the Bible also says a variety of things that Jesus Christ tells us to interpret in a more graceful manner. I would say the fruit of the Spirit is how we bring value to this world.

[Conservative Speaker]

Jesus, love me. You will keep my commandments, right? And you will know them by their fruit. The fruit of the spirit is the merit of himself. And there's one fruit of the spirit. I like to call it the forgotten fruit of the spirit. It's the last one mentioned. It's self control. It's self control, right? It means that in this imperfect world, we're going to have struggles. If in the context of LGBT people, that is their struggle. And the fruit of the spirit is.

[Xander Morix]

Self control, I would say that self control applies to eating junk food or drinking alcohol, but not about limiting who you are as a human being.

[Moderator]

Okay, that's time. Thank you.

[Xander Morix]

Was that nice? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I did a lot of reflection before I decided to come today. I think sometimes when it's platforming negative views that are really harmful, it can just be harmful. But I really thought that. That this conversation could be productive. And I think in many ways, it.

[Conservative Speaker]

Was really the most important reason why I wanted to come on here is because these discussions are very important. Regardless of what the topic may be, finding a middle ground, meeting with people that you don't agree with is something that we don't do.

I'm glad that this is a space where we can all come together and share our opinions without fear of violence, because, unfortunately, that's something we see a lot of nowadays.

[Xander Morix]

I didn't feel surrounded by the enemy, and I think that that's so important. These people didn't hate me. I didn't hate them. We want the same things. We're using different information, and that's why it feels like we're in different realities. And so we just have to close the gap. I'm a community organizer, and my job is to find commonalities that people have and shared goals that we have and successful ways to work towards them so that we can build a better quality of life for ourselves and a better future for the incoming generations. And I think that every single person here today wants that. And I think that there's a broken idea of how we get there. Don't forget to subscribe to Surrounded wherever you get your podcast so that you don't miss an episode. And if you want to watch the video version of Surrounded, subscribe to Jubilee on YouTube.