Surrounded Podcast: A Palestinian Who Doesn’t Agree With Protestors | Ahmed Alkhatib Surrounded Follow-Up

Episode Details:

• Title: A Palestinian Who Doesn’t Agree With Protestors | Ahmed Alkhatib Surrounded Follow-Up
• Host: John Ricolato
• Guest: Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
• Release Date: June 15, 2025

1. Introduction

In this follow-up episode of Surrounded, hosted by John Ricolato, the spotlight returns to Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib, a Palestinian American and head of Reline for Palestine. Building upon Ahmed's participation in the previous episode where he engaged in a heated debate with 25 pro-Palestinian protesters, this episode delves deeper into his perspectives and the complexities surrounding Palestinian advocacy.

2. Ahmed's Background and Mission [02:31 - 03:16]

Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib introduces himself, providing a personal narrative that shapes his current mission:

"I am seeking to promote a different, healthier and pragmatic pro-Palestine discourse away from the entrenched narrative of Hamas and armed resistance and more toward peace and coexistence as courageous evolutions that are needed." (02:31)

Having grown up in Gaza before relocating to the United States at 15, Ahmed draws from firsthand experiences of both optimism during the Oslo peace process and the subsequent horrors of the second intifada. His personal history, including surviving an Israeli bombing that resulted in hearing loss and the loss of friends, fuels his commitment to a nuanced and constructive approach to Palestinian advocacy.

3. The Surrounded Debate Experience [05:09 - 08:09]

Reflecting on his participation in the heated debate with 25 pro-Palestinian protesters, Ahmed shares his initial expectations and actual experiences:

"I expected to be in conversation with folks who are very on the spectrum. Some are pro the armed resistance narratives, some are outright pro Hamas..." (05:39)

Ahmed describes feeling overwhelmed by the intense and fast-paced environment, contrasting it with his usual participation in more structured and lengthy discussions. He notes the challenge of maintaining nuance amidst rapid exchanges and frequent interruptions:

"I generally try to shy away from short, sound bitey hype engagements because I believe in nuance that requires, you know, laying out information and kind of a slightly more longer format." (07:04)

4. The Role of Hamas and Media Portrayal [10:18 - 21:31]

A central theme of the discussion revolves around the impact of Hamas on Palestinian suffering and the broader narrative:

"Gaza is destroyed right now because Hamas made a choice. A choice." (14:44)

Ahmed elaborates on how Hamas's strategies and decisions have contributed to the current humanitarian crisis, emphasizing the need to shift focus towards accountability and constructive solutions:

"What I wanted to share is Gaza is not destroyed right now because of Zionism in 1948. Gaza is destroyed right now because Hamas made a choice." (14:44)

He critically examines how media imagery, while effective in rallying support, can inadvertently serve Hamas's objectives by portraying Palestinians solely as victims:

"There is a popular belief out there that is not very much, very much, very verbalized, often that dead Palestinians are good for the cause from an imagery point of view." (19:00)

Ahmed shares a personal stance against utilizing the suffering of fallen Palestinians as a tool for activism, advocating instead for respectful remembrance and meaningful advocacy:

"We made a decision that we wanted the world to remember them as beautiful, whole human beings." (19:16)

5. Effective Advocacy and Coalition Building [28:24 - 31:05]

Discussing strategies for effective advocacy, Ahmed underscores the importance of building broader coalitions and engaging with diverse communities:

"We build broader coalitions. We talk to the other side of this issue. They're right across from us. We go to Hillel, we go to Chabad, we talk to the very..." (28:24)

He emphasizes the necessity of finding common ground with moderates and allies within the Jewish community to promote understanding and support for Palestinian self-governance:

"They are the mainstream of the Jewish community." (30:50)

Ahmed critiques the current pro-Palestinian movement for its divisive rhetoric, which he believes alienates vital allies and hampers meaningful policy changes:

"The divisive rhetoric that has emerged from a lot of the pro Palestine activism has pushed away vital allies on the Israeli and the Jewish side of the world." (23:29)

6. Reflections on Current Protest Movements [35:15 - 38:48]

Ahmed reflects on the effectiveness of current protest movements, arguing that angry protests alone do not translate into tangible support or policy changes for Palestinians:

"They keep saying, but who's been doing that killing? You know, that is the IDF, that's Israel. And so shouldn't the onus be placed there?" (16:41)

He advocates for a pragmatic approach that disavows violent tactics and emphasizes Palestinian agency and responsibility:

"It's not being done because people genuinely support Hamas. And you want to delegitimize Hamas, but that makes no sense to me." (27:11)

7. Conclusion

In concluding the episode, Ahmed reiterates his commitment to a constructive and pragmatic approach to Palestinian advocacy. He calls for respectful dialogue, coalition-building, and strategic efforts to promote Palestinian self-governance and humanization on the global stage:

"I am approaching this strictly from a Palestinian self-interested point of view, not from a pro Israel or Zionism friendly point of view." (36:43)

John Ricolato expresses sympathy for Ahmed's personal losses and appreciates his efforts to navigate the challenging landscape of Palestinian advocacy amidst intense opposition and complex geopolitical dynamics.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ahmed Al Khatib:

  • "We believe... you're free to discover your way. And that's what running's all about." (00:03)
    (Note: This is part of an advertisement segment and can be disregarded as per instructions.)

• Ahmed Al Khatib:

  • "I am seeking to promote a different, healthier and pragmatic pro-Palestine discourse away from the entrenched narrative of Hamas and armed resistance and more toward peace and coexistence as courageous evolutions that are needed." (02:31)

• Ahmed Al Khatib:

  • "Gaza is destroyed right now because Hamas made a choice. A choice." (14:44)

• Ahmed Al Khatib:

  • "There is a popular belief out there that is not very much, very much, very verbalized, often that dead Palestinians are good for the cause from an imagery point of view." (19:00)

• Ahmed Al Khatib:

  • "We build broader coalitions. We talk to the other side of this issue. They're right across from us." (28:24)

• Ahmed Al Khatib:

  • "The divisive rhetoric that has emerged from a lot of the pro Palestine activism has pushed away vital allies on the Israeli and the Jewish side of the world." (23:29)

• Ahmed Al Khatib:

  • "I am approaching this strictly from a Palestinian self-interested point of view, not from a pro Israel or Zionism friendly point of view." (36:43)

Final Thoughts

This episode of Surrounded offers a nuanced perspective on Palestinian advocacy, highlighting the tensions between different factions within the movement and the broader implications of protest strategies. Ahmed Al Khatib advocates for a balanced approach that prioritizes Palestinian agency, responsible leadership, and strategic coalition-building to foster meaningful change and alleviate suffering in Gaza. His insights challenge prevailing narratives and encourage listeners to consider the complexities inherent in advocating for peace and coexistence in a deeply divided context.