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Hey, listeners, just want to remind you we have episodes of the POD coming out every Sunday, so please consider subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for your support. Now you're saying he's the most corrupt president in US history? To me it sounds like fascist. Most corrupt in history who's escaped the law because of his political influence or something. Why don't you want Donald Trump dead? What do you think is radicalizing more people? Nick Fuentes or msnbc? Probably msnbc. Really? More so than Nick Fuentes. I hear someone laughing behind me. That's kind of. Mmm. When immigrants move into the country, they are a net benefit. Cite a study. The opposite. I can cite theory. I can cite. You asked me for a study and you can't cite one because the barriers are increased. What are the barriers? The only barrier we talked about is work requirements and that's working 20 hours a week. You got me. That was a good one. That was really good. Thank you. You got me from Jubilee. This is the Surrounded podcast, where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreers. In the center of today's episode is the YouTuber political commentator Adam Mockler. He is a self described liberal college dropout and he will be facing 20 college conservative. Adam will debate them one on one until they're voted out by their peers and replaced by someone new. Let's get into it. My name is Adam Mockler. I Talk Politics on YouTube every single day and I am a liberal college dropout. Today I'm surrounded by 20 conservative college students. My first claim is Trump is causing a rise of fascism in our generation. Hey, Adam, I'm Scotty. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Scotty. Hey, would you mind unpacking a little bit more what you mean by rise? The rise of fascism. Yeah. Over the past decade, we've seen a normalization of more fascist anti democratic ideologies. Just to explain Trump's claim to fame entering US politics. He was famous before this, but he entered US politics by saying Obama wasn't born in America. And he convinced a large swath of the country that Obama was not born in America. Four years later, he was chanting lock her up at a political rally and no presidential candidate had done that before. Four years after that, he had couped the government or at least attempted to coup the government. And now I live in the city of Chicago. He's posted AI memes of Chicago being invaded. He sent the military into Chicago. So over the past, I could say decade, decade and a half, we've seen A normalization of fascism in America. And I think it's manifesting in our generation in unique ways. We could talk about the Politico story, but. Yeah, yeah, no, I would say let's. Let's talk a little bit more about what fascism actually is, because I think fascism is a loaded term. What's your definition here? Before I get there, what I would say when you attach fascism to Trump's name, that is a slap in the face to all the Jews who were exterminated under fascist law. Fascism doesn't just have to do with Jews. Donald Trump is absolutely. It was Hitler. When you think of fascism, you think of two people. You think of Hitler and you think of Mussolini, who killed millions and millions of people. Trump is not that. What's your definition of fascism? I want to hear. I think fascism is one person or one party who is silencing and who is demeaning and who is, I guess you would say, opposing and silencing any other opposition. It's kind of right. I know it's more nuanced. To that, I'd say a better definition is a far right authoritarian ideology with one leader at the top with a cult of personality who forcibly suppresses opposition, as you said, but at the same time, he erodes democratic norms and there is hyper militarization involved. Military in the streets. Do you disagree with any of that? I agree with you that Trump. Wait, which one? Right to Chicago. Which one of those descriptions does not describe Trump? All those terms? I would say that Trump, I guess. Would you say what are his motives behind doing this? No, no, no. I gave you. Asking me. I gave you a definition saying these things. No, no, no, no. You were pressing me on the definition of fashion. Okay, so I gave you a few qualities. Which of those qualities does not describe Trump? Say those qualities one more time. It is a far right authoritarian ideology with one leader at the top who is a cult of personality. He forcibly suppresses opposition. They like hyper militarizers. Okay, so I disagree with forcibly doing that. Tell me, give me an example right now about forcibly. You know, a really good example is lately Jimmy Kimmel was taken off air by the FCC because the fcc. I knew we were going to go here with Jimmy Kimmel. Wait, listen. No, no, that's not. Did you hear? You know who the FCC commissioner is? Yes. Okay, who is it? No, I actually don't know exactly who this, but I know what it is. Brendan Carr. So if you don't know who it is, then you might not know that Brendan Carr said in an interview. We can do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way. It was essentially a mobster threat. Other than that, Donald Trump has attacked law firms, he has attacked universities. Jimmy Kimmel might not be the best example because he's a late night show, but it is a glaring example. I get it. Yeah. Right. I would disagree with you. And what do you mean by like forcibly? Right. Because you're attaching fascism to Trump. Right? We attach fascism. We attach that to Hitler and Mussolini. Jimmy Kimmel, him taking Jimmy Kimmel. He didn't have anything direct to do with taking Jimmy Kimmel off of air. The reason why Jimmy Kimmel got taken off of air is because nobody likes Jimmy Kimmel. I've made a lot of times. Let's talk about the word times that Jimmy Kimmel, he's not that funny. Let's talk about the word forcibly then. Forcibly doesn't mean through violence. It could be using the states, using the government or your position of power to try to suppress the opposition. Donald Trump has spent his entire political career acting like the Democratic Party shouldn't exist. You know, act blue, the fundraising. Biden and Obama have done the same things. What are you talking about? It's not about forcibly. Let me ask you, what has Trump done? Let me ask you. Forcibly remove the opposition. He's spoken against the press. Yeah. Can I ask you, every president has done that of all time, they've spoken against the opposition press, but that doesn't mean he's forcibly removed somebody from that position. Last month, Donald Trump sent out a truth social post towards Pam Bondi. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, yes, yes. He said, pam, I want you to indict these three people and move fast. What happened is Eric Siebert, the federal prosecutor from the Eastern District of Virginia, then was forced to resign, forcibly resign, not through violence, but through pressure. Then you see two of the three people that Donald Trump named indicted for random stuff. We have Letitia James and then you have James Comey who got indicted. We also just saw John Bolton indicted. Can I ask you, is indicting your political opponents for speaking up against. They did the exact same things to Trump. The Left Party, the Democratic Party, has done the same thing. The grand jury in New York tried to. No jury in New York. Who's that? See, now we're getting into, you know, those jury things where they used political power to go after Trump. Biden ever. They were afraid of him. They were afraid of what he was going to do to America. Biden ever Tweet at his attorney general and say, hey, Merrick Garland, can you invade? Because Biden wasn't even in charge of the presidency. Okay, so Biden, he was not even making those things. Boss, boss, sorry, you've been eliminated by the majority. And that was so. That was great. I love that. It was great to meet you, Scott. Hi, Sadie. Sadie, nice to meet you, madam. Thank you. So I want to touch on your forcible suppression of the opposition as defining fascism. So in my understanding, I think that the leftist party is assassinating conservatives. So we're talking about Charlie Kirk's assassination. We're writing engraving on the bullets, catch fascist. I think that shows fascism over here. Can you define what you mean by leftist party? Because I think that conservatives are very good at individual responsibility. And when you're placing the blame on an entire party because one 22 year old dude killed somebody, which is obviously tragic, then what do you mean by leftist party? Yeah, so we have Kamala Harris calling Trump supporters fascist, Biden calling Trump supporters fascist. When you have these big leaders calling individuals fascist and then that is getting tagged on to conservatives as a whole. So I think that the leftist party is actually very good about saying one thing about one person and then this is getting spread to everyone. So, so back to what I'm saying about Charlie Kirk. So when Charlie Kirk got assassinated, saying catch fascist, I think that's a very good, good example of fascism. And then you want to talk about the two. Can I ask you, is your position that people in power should not be calling the opposition party fascists or Gestapo or Hitler? Donald Trump. Donald Trump called Kamala Harris and Joe Biden a fascist a dozen times throughout the campaign trail. He called them gestapo. And only one politician has called Donald Trump Hitler and it's JD Vance, his vice president. And which party has that stuck to? That stuck to conservatives? Fascism has stuck to conservatives consistently. You have all this violence on college campuses saying that we're going to. They're calling Turning Point target practice usa. That's messed up. Posting photos of us with red X's on our face with dots on our neck. So how are you to say who's they though? Like random unhinged people, do you think unhinged supporters, Random unhinged leftists. Random, unhinged. Do you think unhinged right wing supporters exist or no? Absolutely. I think there are some on both sides. But that's why I'm saying you can't say forcible suppression of the opposition is tagged only onto Trump because that's Coming from the left side as. Okay, let me ask you then I'm gonna ask you the same question that I asked Scotty. When Donald Trump sent a true social post with three names in the post, and two of those names have been indicted over the past month, is there any analog to the Biden administration sending out open posts to the Attorney General, Merrick Garland, and asking people to be indicted? I honestly am not completely knowledgeable on what exactly? Okay, so Donald Trump has spent the past nine months in office trying to consolidate power among every single institution, not just by appointing loyalists, but by trying to target law firms that are democratic universities. ActBlue, which is the main fundraising power for the Democratic Party, has recently been invest like they're investigating, trying to sue them because they want to take down any mechanism that helps the Democratic Party. Let's talk about universities. Is that forcibly suppressing the opposition party when you're trying to. I don't know if I'd exactly say forcible suppression. It depends on exactly how you're saying it, because like we were saying, when you are attaching the term fascist, you're talking about Nazis. You're talking about specifically Nazis. And when they say oppression, not just Nazis, I'm saying specifically for what I'm saying the suppression of the opposition. When they're calling Trump Hitler, they're calling conservatives. Who's they? J.D. vance. I'm sorry, Leftist. When the leftist. Which leftist politician? Can you name one? I think you're moving the goalpost here. Wait, no, no, no. Can you name one leftist politician who is called Trump Hitler? I. It's every single. It's like. So you shouldn't be throwing this out when no leftist politicians have actually called it. And you're throwing out the term fascism is saying that an election was stolen when it wasn't fascism. Wait, do you think the 2020 election was stolen? I don't. I don't know. You don't know? I don't know because I'm not honest. This proves my point. Trump is causing a rise of FAS generation. I would never say that you're a fascist, but I think there is a normalization of an ideology where people are denying elections. You don't even know if the 2020 election was stolen. This is in America. The 2020 election was not stolen. You've been eliminated by the majority. Could you please return? Thank you. That was great. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. So you keep saying Trump is a fascist and just keep throwing that term around. I didn't say That I said he's causing a rise of fascism in our generation. I would consider him a fascist. Oh yeah, he's not a fascist because a fascism is a one party rule. There's two parties in the United States. It's not one party. And he's not using violence to control power. It's not like after 2028 you're never going to see Trump again. His two term limit is over. That's not fascism. If you want to see fascism, go to the Middle East. I'm Egyptian. If you want to see fascism, I can show you what fascism is. When the president. Okay, you said fascism is one party control. Donald Trump has spent the past decade acting like the opposition party shouldn't exist. Caroline Levitt just the other day said the entire Democratic voter base is Hamas terrorists, criminals and illegal immigrants. Stephen Miller. The Democratic Party is not a party. It is a domestic extremist organization. Donald Trump. Wait, listen. Donald Trump is called my side Nats. The enemy within and people who need to be taken care of. He's trying to get the military to boo Obama and liberals. So Donald Trump over the past decade does not want the Democratic Party to exist. That's why they're targeting ActBlue. So you're targeting our fundamental. He doesn't have the right to criticize the Democratic Party at all. That's not criticizing the party. That's using your power to take down their Democratic Party. They try to impeach him twice. And also that fascism. Why, why are you trying to. Wait the demo. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Twice. You think it's fascism to go through the proper processes to impeach somebody. Wait a minute. When one party controls the narrative. When you had Twitter. Wait a minute, Just go back one second. Impeaching somebody is not fascism. Impeaching somebody is going to make a false narrative around him. That's what they did. That's what they did. 20 election. Because you came in here. Listen, listen, calm down here. Calm down. Like take a deep breath. Okay? Let me tell you, okay. When you have one party, I just get mad at terrible talking points. I'm so sorry. Listen, listen, listen, listen. You know, you take a deep breath. So when you have a party, one party controlling the narrative on social media and they were telling when there was on pre Covid. Who owns Twitter right now? Elon Musk. Elon Musk. TikTok. Right wingers. Who owns Facebook? Mark Zuckerberg. Okay, but they switch narratives. They switch narrative based on who's in, who's in, who's who's. In power. So right now you got Trump, right? You're saying he's a fascist. Is that your claim that people that America's gonna be a fascist nation? That is that. No, my claim is that Trump is causing a rise of fascism in our generation. And you know what? Sitting in this room proves it, because you guys are all blind to the fact, because the Middle East. I'm Syrian, but I haven't been to the Middle East. Okay, have you been to Middle East. Have you seen fascism in Syria when they're killing Christians just because of their faith? I mean, that's fascism. That's fascism. Someone just killing people. Listen, is he. Trump killing someone? Just claimed that fascism can only mean hit Mussolini. So now there's a broader definition. Now, you guys understand this. Okay, thank you. Thank God you guys understand it. It means fascism is attributed to those people because they killed people. They killed people. Trump is nothing. It doesn't just mean you kill people. It's one party sign everyone off. And they're trying to control. Do you think had it. Do you think if Donald Trump and Stephen Miller had it their way, they would let the Democratic Party exist, or do you think they would go after opponents, fundraising mechanisms, et cetera, et cetera? Which one? No. What Trump is doing. Boss, you've been eliminated by the group. You may return to the seat. Thanks, A.B. nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Adam. Ethan. Ethan. So I want to get started with talking about how you're saying, sitting in this room with all of us who are blind to the truth or whatever, is proving your point about the rise of fascism. It seems that you are doing exactly what people have been saying and applying this label needlessly to so many conservatives, like painting with a broad brush. And it makes me wonder if you really use fascism in the way in, like, how the word means or if you're using it as, like, a manipulation technique to silence opposition. My intention is never, ever to paint an entire party as fascist or anyone in this room is fascist. I don't think anyone is, but I think that there is a blindness and there is a normalization of fascism. Can I ask you a question? Sure. Was the 2020 election stolen or was it not? Was it legit? I'm not sure. But can I ask you a question? No, no, no. That scares me. Listen, do you think elections can be stolen? Let me finish my point. You think it's impossible for elections to be stolen? Of course. But in United States, Donald Trump then took 60 court cases, 60 cases of election fraud. He Lost every single one. So he went through the courts legally. After he went through the courts legally, what he did is that didn't work. So then he called election officials, you know Brad Raffensperger from Georgia. Have you heard this phone call? I have, yeah. He said, can you find me 11,000 votes? After that didn't work. He tried a fake. I think he was situating a lot on what he meant on that phone call. Okay. But then after that, he tried a fake elector scheme. You've heard of this, right? He tried to gather fake electors in seven states to override the real electors. After that, didn't work. I know everyone's gonna sigh at this, but do you know what was happening inside the Capitol on January 6th? What was happening. Do you know what was happening inside the Capitol? They were, like, ratifying or affirming the election. Mike Pence was certifying the results of the election. Thank you. And what were the people chanting outside? There was a group of people chanting, hang Mike Pence. So wait, when Trump. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me finish. When Trump said the election was stolen before it even happened, and then he stood on stage when 50% of the votes were counted and said, I won this election. And then he calls election officials, and then on January 6th, the day they're certified, clarifying the vote, people. Right, okay. So do you get what I'm saying? I think I get what you're saying. And now I'm sitting in a room of people who don't even know if you're. Can I. For a second? Yeah. Okay. So how do you feel about that report that came out showing that there was, like, 274 FBI informants in the crowd on January 6th? I think that it's hilarious that Trump sent out a tweet saying Biden's FBI did that when it was Trump's FBI. Okay, wait, whose FBI was FBI? The same FBI that literally, like, colluded against him with Russia Gates? No, no. Whose FBI Was this in 2020? It was 21. I mean, it was the FBI under Trump. Okay, so it was the FBI. No allegiance to Trump. So how do you feel about Trump's FBI doing that? How do you feel about the whole Russiagate thing that the FBI peddled to, like, try and frame a sitting president for treason? What's your source for this, dude? The Tulsi Gabbard. Tulsi Gabbard? Yeah. The director of National Trump doesn't even trust Tulsi Gabbard to be inside on some of these, like, Iran conversations. The Director of National Intelligence, who's over the CIA and FBI, did a press conference and released a bunch of documents. And she said, I've read the documents. They don't say what she says. They said Donald Trump had four years during his first term. No, they did not. There was no Russia collusion, Donald Trump or. They found no credible evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election. Literally his campaign manager and years and years to try to frame him for treason. Dude, his campaign manager was literally arrested for colluding with the Russians at one point in 2016. I wouldn't say Trump did, but. But the Tulsi Gabbard report that you're citing is not saying what you think it says. I mean, it's in the documents that she released. People can read it for themselves. And furthermore, it's not just that, but you had, like, the deputy director of the FBI. Wait, so who tried to pin Trump for treason? Like, who exactly was this? You gotta be specific with your claim. It was the FBI and the CIA and former Obama administration officials that were investigating the Trump campaign leading up to the election. You've been eliminated by the majority. Nice to meet you. That was a great conversation. Thanks. Hey there, Adam. How you doing? Great to meet you. Great to meet you. Nice to meet you, Miguel. All right, well, I guess I have a few questions I want to start with. You seem to be kind of in newsland, and I kind of want to come back down to reality. So. I'm a college student at UC Berkeley. I've had a student. It's documented online, on Instagram, come up to me after class, vaguely threaten me and say a bunch of stuff. Terrible. Yeah. University does absolutely nothing. I filed a report. I did everything. Wasn't even removed from my classes. And this is all documented and up online. So I, as a student, don't have the freedom to go share my opinions. Charlie Kirk. The day Charlie Kirk died, we requested security. The university turned down our request for security. These are the real examples of fascism every single day. Are you waiting. Are you trying to equate one random. No, no, no. Wait a minute. Hold on. Are you trying to equate one random college student who I condemn. No. Who I think is. With Donald Trump using his power to try to consolidate as much of. No, you're not. Okay, so what are you trying to say? So I'm trying to say that there's a system of the university here that's set up against conservative system. Do you mean one student? No, I mean that There's a system that I reported this person to and nothing happened. That's part of you. This is part and parcel. Well, it's stifling conservative speech on campuses. And my point here is, and we saw back in the 2020 election, the suppression of the Hunter Biden story. I don't think the election was actually, you know, ballots were thrown in and it was rigged. I don't believe that. So you think it's. You do or you don't? Sorry. I do not believe that you don't think the election was stolen. There's probably a few people here who disagree with you. Does that worry you at all? I think it's slightly worrying, but slightly worrying that people think the election was stolen because they were convinced by the president that. When I table on my campus, I have students telling me that Charlie Kirk deserved to die, throwing up. Ls in my face, laughing at me. That's terrible. But you can't equate one or a few random students. You're equating four. The President of the United States convinced a large portion of the country the election was stolen when it wasn't so high. I highly condemn your claim. These random. Okay, I just want to ask you a question. Yeah. You're saying that this is fascism. Can you provide your definition of minus? No. Fascism. This is a small scale. So I would say there's a few definitions and I think all of them are. Do you like mine? Can you repeat your character? Actually, I want to pause because you wanted to talk about the rise of fascism, and that's what I have in our generation. Because your claim isn't that Trump is a fascist. Your claim is that Trump has contributed to the rise of fascism. Yeah, yeah. That's. Why do all the fascist people in American politics hate Donald Trump? Why did Fuentes not vote for Donald Trump? Why did all the people who are openly claiming. You know, Mehdi Hasan. You saw that Jubilee surrounded. I was going to say, wait a minute. Why do all these people who. Who are openly admitting that they're fascist. Why do. Why does not a single one of them support Donald Trump? They are openly admitting that they're fascist. And a lot of them do support Donald Trump. Number one, I have spoken with conservatives, number one, but number two, conservative, not Republican. They don't vote Republican. But also, what about the Politico story? That really changing the point? No, no, no, no. I understand. You change the point. That's fine. I'm not changing the point. You. No, no. You asked me. Unless you want to contain it to one jubilee episode. Let's go. Go to the. Let me finish. Unless you want to contain the people we're talking about to one jubilee episode. Young people. Not only young Republicans, but young conservatives. Sure. They are turning to fascism at a high rate. Do you condemn what was in that group chat? What group chat? Oh, the wild. The political group chat. I would personally condemn what was said in that group chat and what was said in that group chat. Wait, wait, can you tell me what was said in that group chat? Yeah. So they describe black people as watermelon people. They say they love Hitler. They said a lot of things. Wait, what do they say about gas chambers? They said, if you don't vote for me, you're getting sent to the gas chambers. Okay, wait a minute. And these weren't just young Republicans. These were like 20, 30, 40 year olds. Okay, can I respond? No, no, no. These were 20, 30, 40 year olds and some of them were state senators. So younger people seem to be inclined towards fascism. You can respond. I'm sorry. Okay. Younger people seem to be inclined towards fascism. Yes. And all these people don't like Donald Trump. Those were younger. Let me finish speaking. Okay, okay. So it was a reaction. You've been eliminated by the group. All right, thank you. That's great. Hello. Hi. Nice to meet you. Hi, I'm Sarah. So I'm a lot more concerned about the rise of violent left wing rhetoric among Gen Z than so called fascism. Because I'm sorry, if you think like that chat was any sort. Like that meant that fascism is on the rise. It's like you've never been at Call of Duty Lobby. Like it's called making edgy jokes. Wait a minute. You make those types of jokes? I don't personally, but like that's like every young man ever. Wait, do any of you made a joke? Raise your hand if you make those types of jokes. Okay, so no one will actually admit it because it's kind of weird to make those types of jokes. Everyone makes those types in that video. Like, no male friends. If you've like never been in a room where people. My male friends say the N word as a joke. Like, like it's. My male friends does that and you know it's true. And it's like not. You're probably. Not everyone does that. Homosexuals. Okay. My male friends and I tell each other to like kill themselves. We do funny stuff. Oh, that's so shocking. Oh, my gosh. Okay. But we don't say. We don't say off to the gas chamber. The difference is that young leftists genuinely worshiped the murder of Charlie Kirk and Luigi Mangione, who are people committing genuine acts of violence, and they genuinely condone that. So that's the big difference. Because, I mean, I saw literally graffiti on college campuses saying, kill all Charlie Kirks. They are inciting violence. And that is a totally normalized thing to say to celebrate the fact. And that serious and the political group chat was a joke, and you know that. Okay, so your concession is that, you know, people talk like fascists in private sometimes, but you're worried that leftists are using increasingly violent rhetoric like the people that you were talking about. Luigi Mangione, support. One is serious, and one thing is a. Jack. Okay, I want to ask you one thing. Did one Democratic politician support what Luigi did? Can you name any actual Democratic politicians? No, but it doesn't matter. So on the other side, you're talking about the rise in the generation. You're not talking about politicians at this stage. I am talking about politicians as well. So on the other side. Oh, now you're. No, you're not. No, no, no, no. Let me clarify. What about young leftists? What about the violence that young leftists face? Let me clarify very, very quickly. So you're trying to point to young leftists on the left, but on the right, there are politicians in power. People like Stephen Miller, who says the Democratic Party is a domestic extremist organization. Caroline Levitt just the other day, as I said, said that the entire base is Hamas terrorists. So when you have people in power on the right. Wait, wait, wait. They're using this rhetoric and normalizing it. That goes downstream. And you have left wing media like MSNBC cheering backstage when Charlie Kirk was murdered. Wait, you think people are being murdered because of msnbc? You think MSNBC is radical? Yes, I do. You think MSNBC is radical? Absolutely. What do you think is radicalizing more people? Nick Fuentes or msnbc? Probably msnbc. Really? More so than Nick Fuentes. I hear someone laughing behind me. That's kind of. But also, there is a fundamental difference between people in power using rhetoric and random leftists. Listen, I'm a young liberal. You know, Don Lemon just told people to shoot ICE agents. Don Lemon just told illegal brown people to grab guns so they can shoot ICE agents when they show up at their door. Is Don Lemon not someone in a position of power as a young liberal? Can I just. Wait. Do you condone that? Do you shoot? Yeah. Do you condone that? No, you should not shoot ICE agents. He said that you should Have a weapon in your house. Don't you support the Second Amendment? Not for illegal immigration. They're not allowed to legally own firearms. Can I. Can I clarify something? Can I clarify? He was talking about citizens because he said they're arresting and detaining citizens. So if you watch that. If you watch that clip, he was saying citizens. I hope there's one of those fact checks on screen, because he was saying they're detaining citizens. So really quickly, citizens wouldn't need to be, like, shooting ICE agencies. I don't think anyone should shoot ICE agents. But he was number one. I'm not the way that's. I'm not Don Lemon. That's a ton. No, we're. Can I just clarify? Left wing people openly incite violence, get videos on stuff. I'm a young liberal, and I. I completely, wholeheartedly condemn anyone on my side who is, number one, talking poorly about Charlie Kirk. Number two, saying insane stuff. Sure, yeah. Condemn half your party. Do it. Oh, you think? Okay. Can you name one Democratic person in position of power who said something about Charlie Kirk that was. Yeah, I just said, like, half of the people on msnbc, we saw the video. Can you name the second he died? I don't know. Cause they're off camera. We heard the cheers the second he died. On your side, I can name Mike Lee, who made fun of Melissa Hortman after she died. I can name Donald Trump and Don Jr. Who made fun of Nancy Pelosi. So just to back up, up, there is a normalization of this type of ideology happening in our politics, and it's due to people like Donald Trump. Okay. We saw Luigi Mangione is a sexist pause. Timeout. We're done with this claim, so we need to move on to the next claim. My next claim is, despite Trump's claims, the economy is not in a golden age. Got it. Hi. Nice to meet you. I'm Riley. Nice to meet you, Riley. So why don't you think. Why do you think Trump's economy isn't golden? I don't think it's in a golden age. I think that he claims almost on a weekly basis that the economy is in a golden age and that we are bringing in trillions of dollars in tariffs. But that's not manifesting in any of the indicators. We can look at three in particular. Unemployment is up since Trump took office, prices are rising, and manufacturing is down. Manufacturing was one of his big claims, but we can dig into any of those. Yeah. So I would just like to talk about the Tariffs first in general. So actually when we increase tariffs, it's kind of proven that always at the beginning inflation rises, always a little spike and then it eventually decreases. We can also see that Trump would do this to eventually in hopes to improve domestic manufacturing and self reliance because for example, we get about 60% of semiconductors and 90% of microchips from Taiwan. They're the leading manufacturer of those in the whole world and currently they're at war with China. And if China takes over Taiwan, then we're in big trouble. Right. So I would just kind of like, like to add that it's really important that and not only do tariffs help us get that self reliance and create more jobs, we also can use tariffs to make more money and bring in more money for our country because to fix the national debt issue that Biden's team caused. Yeah, let's start off with the first claim about tariffs reshoring manufacturing. They absolutely can be used to reshore certain industries into the United States. And that's a good point, but that's not how Trump's using them. He placed blanket tariffs on every single country except for Russia and North Korea for some odd effing reason. But then he has been kind of weird about these tariffs. Like there's no actual concessions that he's trying to get. He placed tariffs on countries that we had free trade with. And then secondly, when you do tariffs. Can I stop, wait really quickly? When you do tariffs all via executive order. All of his tariffs were via executive order. None of them actually went through Congress or were long term and binding. There is no actual incentivization for countries to reshore manufacturing because. Can I interrupt really quickly? There's no continuity into the next administration. Right. Can you agree that when you do it all via executive order, the next administration could just, you know, run it all back. So we've seen actually a decrease in manufacturing investments. I would, I would like to add that when we see that employment rates will rise and costs will go down, we've already as these. It's only, it's more. Not even in his first full through he said he's the one that's claiming we're in a golden age and said 90 deals in 90 days. Also, can I add that when tariffs are added about like you said about multiple pull across all nations in the world, that is like a. I believe I'm saying the right name neo exceptionalism trade policy so we can have more communication with other countries and also to just generate more wealth also as well. And that's not manifesting in any of our manufacturing investment that wealth is not manifesting for the US People. In fact, this type of tax is regressive. Can you agree that tariffs are paid by the US Consumer? Like, can you split with Trump? There's. Yes, of course, tariffs are paid by the US Consumer. But as we can see that when we make, when we, I mean, use tariffs to have domestic manufacturing and to just generate more wealth, we can rely on ourselves and not look to these other countries like we have been for so long. And that's right. But it's not what Trump's doing. Actually, real private fixed investment into manufacturing structures in the United States went down. Biden actually had a few acts that incentivize, like the chips act, incentivize the building of Chinese chips and semiconductors in the United States. But Trump is tearing up these trade deals and then piecing them back together with tape and signing his name on it as if he did something when he didn't. But as we can see, with Biden's era of presidency, inflation actually increased. And with Trump's current president's second term, it hasn't decreased. And we actually see, as of August, I believe, that median household income has increased $1,000 already. And in his first term, you've been eliminated by. It's a pleasure. That was great. I really enjoyed that. Thank you. What's up? Hi. Nice to meet you. Isaiah. Isaiah, I want to give you 30 seconds, and I want to give myself 30 seconds just to understand where you're coming from. Yeah. So again, there are a few indicators that you can look at, but if Donald Trump is going to claim that we are in a golden age, then we necessarily had to have been in a golden age under the end of Biden's term, because so far, youth unemployment is up 16% since he took office. That's people in this room. Youth unemployment is up, up. That's not a golden age. Unemployment for black Americans is up 20% since he took office. That is not a golden age. We can look at inflation over the past, you know, since Liberation Day in April, you can look at inflation, and it has gone up. We were actually trending down at the end of Biden's term and as Trump took office. But now it is trending back up. And all of this is for what? No actual reshoring of manufacturing quite yet. All right, perfect. So to go based on. You want to talk about unemployment? Any of it? Yeah. So to go based on unemployment, the reason why it's actually higher is because Under Biden's Inflation Reduction act, that actually increased the inflation margin significantly only because it actually did in fact increase taxes. It did say it was going to put $1.5 trillion back into the economy for roads, infrastructure, all that. It didn't actually increase anything necessarily. Actually, that was more so actually given to the states actually to do away with the money as a shoes. As far as tariffs go, yes, obviously inflation does increase as well. As well as also a slower, slow growth. That's not a golden age then. But as far as that goes, actually for a long term development. How long? Well, it could take as much as five years. Five. But that's also an investment to the Lord have mercy. Is that what the people voted for? I thought they voted for immediate release. As far as five years of. Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, egg prices did drop. So did gasoline prices. The only reason why California isn't as high is just because of California's regulations. But either way, while he does actually influence the economy through his executive orders, he can't control every single. Can I ask you, do you think we're in a golden age right now as Trump claims? Do I think that we're in a golden age? I think we're actually progressing there. Okay. Do you think that Trump has brought in the amount of money he claims? He claims it's $18 trillion. He says 17 to $18 trillion based on tariffs. I do believe so. Because as far as the tariffs have actually done, companies have actually started to set up their businesses here in the United States. Yes. The problem is, okay, a few things. Number one, there was a CNBC article that came out just yesterday where they interviewed 12 business owners and all of them said that the tariffs have impacted them so negatively that they've had to reduce the amount of people that employ them. They've had to slow down their growth. And when it comes to the $18 trillion that Trump is claiming, they're just inflated numbers that Trump seems to be lying about. And my entire point is when unemployment for young Americans, for black Americans, yeah, it's higher. Especially because we actually outsource our employment from other countries as well, which actually will be brought back to the United States when they actually. When, When. Five years. Like I said, it's an investment. You have to also give it time for the economy to actually heal. To see, we were already healing. We were at a pretty good pace. The stock market was hitting all time highs. Then when Trump announced the Liberation Day tariffs, it dropped and it took months for it to return to Those all time highs, it took months. Thank you, thank you, I appreciate it. Have a good day. That was great. Matt, nice meeting you. I'm Adam, Nice to meet you. First of all, when Trump says golden age, he means golden age, which is a set of time period. It doesn't happen. It's not golden day, golden year, golden three months. There's no time stamp or time limit on the golden age. So it's an idea that America is going to be entered into a time period, a time age and hopefully sooner than later. It's not the age part I have a problem with, it's the golden part I have a problem. So why don't you think we're heading into a golden age? I don't think we're in a golden age as Trump claims for the few reasons that I've stated. I mean the economy is just not bearing that people are generation to a golden age. Wait, what? Why so not why you don't think we're in a golden age? Why do you think we're not going into a golden age? Oh, because the indicators are slowing down since Trump took office. If you want to say that we're in a golden age now, then we were in a golden age under Biden. As Biden left office, the economy was recovering. And I know that he had a rocky four years. I know there are a lot of extrinsic factors such as Covid, the Ukraine war and some policies that Biden passed. I can easily, easily concede that. But by the end of Biden's term, the economy was starting to stick the landing and Trump immediately screwed it up by doing these Liberation Day tariffs combined with the big, ugly, beautiful bill or whatever, which will not only, you know, strip Medicaid and Social Security nets away from the lowest income earners or people that need it the most, but it also provides permanent tax cuts to the richest of the rich. So in terms of the economy, because the Medicaid is a whole different argument. So let's not talk about Medicaid. Well, it does feed into it, so let's talk about the economy. So in terms of the economy, Medicaid feeds into the economy. So in terms of the. Sure, but we're talking about specifically the economy and I think we brought up tariffs and I think we bought. So let's stick to that for the, really quickly. When people don't have social safety nets, they have to start digging into their savings and taking out. I don't think he's, I think he made it a little bit of a Harder made fraud a little bit less fraud to happen. Sorry. Let's talk about tariffs real quick because there's two arguments to the tariffs. There's the national security part of tariffs, and then there's the wealth of America tariffs. Which one you want to go for? So let's go for national security. So it's in the best interest that our number one adversary is responsible for the majority of vital things that we need. So, for example, vitamin C is high, is produced Almost, I think 90 plus percent in China, which China would be an adversary. Steel is produced in large quantities in China. Drone parts, which the military heavily relies on for military and private people as well, rely on drone parts for industry or whatever that's also made in China. Do you think it's a good idea that. Do you think it's going towards golden age to get America less dependent on our adversaries who in theory hate us and have been pulling military advances to threaten our. What you're saying is true. What you're saying is. But it's not going into the golden age. But that is not what Trump is doing. So just to say that exactly is what Trump is doing. No, it is not at all. Really quickly. Wait, really quickly, really quickly. You just said a lot of things. Really quickly. You're pointing out a good thing. Sure. During COVID a lot of our supply chain flaws were exposed heavily. We relied on other countries for certain technologies and certain masks. And I think everyone realized, oh, shit, wait a minute. Our supply chains are really just in other countries. We need to reshore some stuff. But when it comes to Trump's tariffs on China, can you name me any indicators that bear that we have reshored? What is it you were saying, steel reshored? Any sort of this technology? Well, the idea that we have 7 trillion, I think it's almost at $7 trillion. I just debunked that number. Okay, so it's not 7 trillion. So there's almost 7 trillion. Where does the 7 trillion come from though? In a few countries. So I haven't even listed what the seven trillion is about. Okay, so yeah, so the six trillion, maybe almost six trillion. Six. It's around six trillion. It's about five trillion. So it's. Well, depending on six, seven, whatever. So my point is, if you let me finish, is that you want it. You just want. Right there. Sorry. There you go. My entire point is that you talk about manufacturing going down and it takes about. Because I work in government, it takes about, you know, like two years at least in California to Even go from groundbreaking to flat to ribbon cutting. So I mean, in terms of manufacturing going down, the way you look at manufacturing is what's promised. What's, what's. What's been promised to be reinvested into America. So that's the, my first entire theme. Do you think companies have any incentive to reshore manufacturing long term when these are all done by executive order and not actual binding trade deals gone through courts? Trade deals are big. Trump's tariff policy is to impact the future economic. We're not seeing that investment into the future. Whether they see the listen or not, they've promised almost 7 trillion, 6 trillion, 6, 7 trillion dollars into the economy. So do one more time in terms of national, in terms of that, I think it's a good idea that China is no longer holding us hostage economically. My second point to the second to the national intelligence is that the fact that we are in an almost trillion dollar trade deficit, which deficits. When you export, export, when you import more than you export, which is not a good thing. Would you say that you've been eliminated by the majority? That was great. That was fun. Martin. Nice to meet you, Martin. I'm Adam. Perfect. So what I want to talk about is because we already established kind of the golden age is, is a wide range of time. Sure. More so talking about the time golden part. Well, yeah, I'm saying for the age. We're talking about this entire Trump presidency and really think we're in a golden age like he claims. I think we're entering one and I think that, you know what indicators. Yeah. So what I want to talk about is more so any indicators. And moving off of the Darius, talking about the biggest aspect of the Trump's economic presidency, which is the one big beautiful bill. Okay, that'd be great. Yeah. So I assume you're against the one big beautiful bill, correct? Yeah, certain parts of it. Sure. For sure. Okay, for sure. So I think the biggest part of it is the extension of the 2017 tax cuts and Jobs Act. Are you pro or against that? I mean, that's fine, but it depends on the context around it. So what Donald Trump did is permanently extend the Tax Cuts and Jobs act tax cuts, and that disproportionately benefits the richest of the rich. But at the same time, like I said, at the same time, he cut social safety nets for people at the very, very bottom. And you know what the Tax Cuts and Jobs act says. Wait really quickly. If you look it up, the Tax Cuts and Jobs act over the next few years will Lead to hundreds of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of children losing free lunch at schools. While it also allows billionaires, it also allows billionaires to now write off private jets. Now none of us in this room benefit from having a private jet. So let's touch on the first part. You said that most of the tax cuts are concentrated within the top 20 disproportionately. I wouldn't say most. Yeah, well, so sure. So 60% of the tax. So 60% of income earners actually do get tax cuts under the one big beautiful bill. Under the extension of the Tax Cuts and Jobs act, specifically the median American family would have seen a tax hike of $1,800 a year should the tax. And I'm glad they extended that. Yeah, absolutely. So like I said, the context matters when you're extending that. But you're removing social safety nets and allowing billionaires to write off private jets. Listen, we people in this room will benefit a lot more from like kids getting free lunches than riding off private jets. I don't see anyone social safety net part though. So the, the best example the left always brings up is cuts to Medicaid. The actual like most prominent cut that we made to Medicaid was instituting work requirements, work requirements of 20 hours a week. They tried the same exact thing in Arkansas and it kicked 18 these thousand people off of their Medicaid. I would say that if someone isn't working, then they shouldn't be getting help. No, but these were 18,000 people who had increased barriers to get Medicaid. And what happens is these people who are vulnerable already, the barriers of seeking a job. No, no, it's not just that. It kicks people off because the barriers become so hard. People with jobs can still get it. But the problem is. Listen, what are the barriers that are so hard? The problem is when it comes to this, with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Sorry, with that, the barriers for Medicaid. Sorry, one second. No, okay, so it's like you said, barriers. What are the barriers that are so hard besides getting a job where you have to go work 20 hours a week? There's already a qualification in there that if you're dissing disabled, then that doesn't apply to you. I mean, what are these barriers? The left always speaks in these like just, you know, abstracts like that's actually like what are the barriers? The increased barriers are when people are vulnerable and already working part time. And then you cut them off of Medicaid. Yes, people can get Medicaid with this. But the problem is when 18,000 people like in Arkansas are kicked off of their Medicaid who weren't working part time. No, the 18,000 people were kicked off of their Medicaid because they couldn't get access to it. What happens then is that they have to dig into their social safety. They have to dig into their. So how they're not to going got access then because the barriers are increased. What are the barriers? The only barrier you've listed, the only barrier we talked about is work requirements and that's working 20 hours a week. Yeah, but it's. The work requirements increasing is just. Yeah, it's not. So wait, can you concede. So we agree work requirements are a good thing. We can find common ground. Can you concede that what the tax cuts and wait, listen, can you concede that what the Tax Cuts and Jobs act does is it permanently decreases taxes for the richest of the rich, but then it also. Wait, wait. But it also temporarily gives no tax on tips. Do you know that part? Yeah, the no tax on tips, but that's only temporary. So what if there's a cut off on it? Because you always want to like test out. Okay, wait, wait, wait a minute, wait. A reason why the original program had an expiration. Wait, wait, wait, let me bring this back. So the permanent tax cuts for the richest of the rich don't have an expiration date. Wait. Because we already did that when we already had the trial program. Don't have an expiration date, but you have an expiration date for the things that are going to help. Why is there an expiration date for the people who are the most vulnerable? Trial program and well, the tax, tax cuts for everyone were made permanent. Like, I mean, we already made permanent. Why would you not make the tax cuts permanent? You know, when they end, they end right as Trump's leaving office. So this is what it's like. It's like wave, it's like waving a hundred dollar bill in front of somebody's eyes while giving thousands of dollars. Okay, earlier part, can we, can we, can you concede again that work requirements are good thing with Medicaid? Sure, yeah. Yeah. All right, perfect. Awesome. So you support Donald Trump on that? No. Great to know. I don't support. No, no, listen, when you sat down, I said the context matters. The context of, of permanent tax cuts. Wait, do you. Okay. And actually, so let me ask if you could have it your way, if you could have it your way, would the no tax on tips be permanent or if it works out, then I want to make it. Which it will. If you had it your way, would the no tax on tips be permanent now in the big beautiful bill, or do you think that them expiring right as Trump leaves office is a good thing? I want to make sure that they work and then make them permanent. I want to make sure that we don't need to expand it. I want to actually have a sound public policy. Why do you think Trump made them not permanent? Look, I've already said this three times because when you ever have a new program you need to try out, you have a trial period, which is why the 2017 TCJA had a cutoff time. So let's talk about, you know, you bring up taxes on the richest Americans. So I assume you're, like I said, you're. You're opposed to the Trump's tariffs. The Trump tariffs? Yeah. Okay. Why the Trump tariffs? For a few reasons or just, just tariffs in general? Why are you opposed to tariffs? I'm not opposed to tariffs in general. As I've said, there are ways to do targeted tariffs. But when Donald Trump got into office, office, he placed tariff on every single country except for North Korea and Russia. I find that pretty weird. But listen, listen, I want to ask you. After nine, we'll have a little bit time left. So we're talking about, you know, cutting taxes for the richest Americans and all Americans. The reason why that's actually a good thing is because you want people investing more money, especially right now when we're seeing an AI revolution which is about to make our country exponentially. You understand that? Wait, let me, let me make this point. Republicans and President Trump, how are you actually not going to grow. I got to make this point. Tariffs are a regressive tax on the people who earn the lowest. Well, so right now, all tariff is a sales tax. That's literally all it is. Okay? And the sales tax. And listen, foreign goods, listen, low income earners necessarily spend more of their income on consumption, right? So when you're spending more of your income on consumer goods, you are going to be hit by these taxes harder. Meanwhile, the richest of the rich are getting. Tax cuts, are getting. All the richest of the rich are disproportionately benefiting from this. Even. Can you, can you project that the 2017 Tax Jobs act being extended will put more money. Can you believe that lower income will take out. No, that is not true. Yes, that absolutely can. You can see that lower income earners are disproportionately benefited by the regressive tariffs. One more time. So Lower income earners necessarily spend well when bringing jobs back. They're going to be disproportionately. When are they going to bring jobs back? Jobs have been. Tariffs take a while to kick into effect. You need to have trade deals. You need to have the tariffs. Actually. How many trade deals do we have? Foreign goods. We've done ones with the uk, we've done some with the eu, we're working on some of the Indians. Are these actually papered up? Up. I mean, it takes more than three months to negotiate a massive trade deal. Donald Trump said 90 deals in 90 days. What do you mean it takes more than three months? Of course he's going to have a timeline. Timeout. You got me. That was a good one. That was really good. Thank you. You got me. My next claim is children are safer with the average illegal immigrant than with Donald Trump. Hi, I'm. Nice to meet you. I'm Adam. I would actually like to hear what you have to say about it. That'd be great. So when you look at the statistics, there is a study done by PNAS in Texas that shows that undocumented immigrants are two times less likely to commit violence. Let me finish. They are. It's two times less likely to commit crimes than native born citizens. 2.5 times less likely to commit property or drug crimes than native born citizens. Four times less likely to commit property crimes. Meanwhile, Donald Trump. Trump has been held liable for sexual assault. Donald Trump has had 34 felonies. Donald Trump is best friends with prolific sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. So I just have a few questions for you. So I would really like to know how come 60% of them that come in commit a crime or they have the intention to commit a crime and how. That is not true. That is true. What's your stat? What's your study? I believe it was in two articles. I learned it in my college class. Wait, do you think. Who do you think commits more crimes? The average U.S. citizen or the average undocumented immigrant? I mean, violent crimes. Undocumented. So we wouldn't know. Violent crimes. We actually wouldn't know. And we have no idea who these people are coming into our country. Texas did a comprehensive study, but there's no background check on them. They don't exist in this country. So we have no idea who they are. They do. So the burden of proof would be. I need. They're just allowed to come in here. Let me say. Do you understand what sanctuary cities are? Of course they're allowed to just come in here and they get Everything for free. Okay. Can I ask you a question? Sure. So just imagine you had a daughter. Let's run a thought experiment. You had a daughter, and you're about to bring her over to your friend's house. As you're driving your daughter over to her friend's house, you learn at the last minute that her father had not only been sexually assault or civilly liable for sexual abuse, his father, her father. Also at the same time. Sorry, let me restart that one second. Imagine you're taking your daughter over to her friend's house. And as you're going over there, you learn that her friend's father had been held civilly liable of sexual abuse. He was best friends with prolific sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and had said that he could just walk in on girls in dressing rooms like he did in the Howard Stern Show. Would you let your daughter go over to that person's house? The chances would be actually the same because I wouldn't know who those people are, the undocumented individuals. Would you bring your daughter over to that person's house? I don't think so. Okay. Because that describes Donald Trump perfectly. I would never bring my daughter to a house that I don't even know who the parents are. I don't know where they come from. I don't know where they're. Average undocumented immigrant commits lower crimes than Donald Trump. There's no statistics on that. Because they're undocumented. There are statistics on this. The study from pna. They coming from. Where are they coming from? Do you know? Do you know their past life? Do you know? Wait, so when a crime. Where? What? Where and what country of them. No, you don't. Because they don't take any of that data when they come here. Listen, slap a name on them and they allow them. You realize when a violent crime. When a violent crime is committed, it's likely they're let go because they're undocumented. So it doesn't go on any criminal records. Let me finish. So those statistics are actually very, very smear. You are trying to say that most people are let go for violent crimes. That's not true. They are. Let me. When a violent crime occurs, somebody necessarily will likely report it, right? So when it's reported, that goes into the overall stats. When they do the arrests. When they do the arrests, it shows that undocumented immigrants are way less likely to be arrested because they are not being caught. They are not being documented. They are undocumented immigrants. They are illegal. They're committing a crime. By being here, the burden of proof would be on you to prove that undocumented immigrants commit crimes. Two times higher rates, and they went through the legal process of becoming a US Citizen. Then they would be able to prove if they're a criminal or not, because they would have a background check. But these people are coming in here undocumented, with no way to prove that. Can I ask you a question? Absolutely. If somebody were held civilly liable of sexual abuse, would you let them immigrate into the country legally? No, but we don't know that because they're not. So Donald Trump was held civilly liable of sexual abuse, and you're okay with him being the president, held accountable for that or not? Because there's no record of that. There is a major problem here is that you're denying all of troops coming from. Pause. You've been eliminated by the group. That was good. Thank you. Awesome. That was really good. Sprinted there. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. Appreciate you being out here. Thank you. Going against all of us, of course. So explain to me more of what you're trying to say. Are you trying to say that Trump's like, an evil man? No, no, no. So there's a massive problem with Donald Trump when it relates to power dynamics. Throughout his entire career, this is a man who has abused power dynamics every step of the way. On the Howard Stern show, he one time said that he walks into dressing rooms of people changing because he owns the beauty pageant, and they no one says anything. You think that's bad, right? Donald Trump also. Yeah. Donald Trump also said he grabs women by the pussy because they let them do it. That happened, right? Yes. So then he was also asked in a deposition a few years later, do you consider yourself a star? And he said, I would consider myself a star. So he's basically conceding right there that he's a star who can do it. So my point is, Donald Trump, throughout the years, has abused his power dynamics by not only walking into girls in dressing rooms, but also being best friends with Jeffrey Epstein, sending Jeffrey Epstein letters. While Jeffrey Epstein is at the peak of his sex trafficking. Meanwhile, the average undocumented immigrant doesn't have any power to abuse. Yes, there are crimes committed by undocumented immigrants. Yes, coming to the country illegally is a crime. But when we're talking about sexual crimes on the outer edges, and by the statistics, Donald Trump is way more likely to commit one. So that's your claim. So first and foremost, we gotta talk about. So you're for immigration Legal immigration. Immigration. I am on the same page with you. Hell yeah, of course. So I'm glad that we do agree on this other aspect that we don't like men in dressing rooms. Right. I'm glad we do agree on that. But no, of course I don't. Wait, why would I? Right? That's a whole different thing with trans. So you don't. Can you claim it's kind of. Can you just say it's kind of weird that the President, United States has bragged repeatedly about grabbing women because they let you do it. Okay. Another important thing to keep in mind is that when did Trump do all these, these things that he's being accused of? Was he a Republican or was he a known Democrat? Does his ideology matter? I think it does because it shows you who you're surrounded around can affect the decision. Now, I'm not saying you. I'm saying like Trump at the time, he was 68 years a Democrat. You want to talk about who we're surrounded by? The Republican Party is literally covering up Jeffrey Epstein. The Republican Party is covering up Matt Gaet. Do you remember when Matt Gaetz was being investigated because he had venmoed 17 year old girls? Do you remember? And then speaker of the House Mike Johnson refused to allow information to come out. And then the Epstein case. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson refuses to allow stuff to come out. So it's kind of weird to me that you guys want to sometime. Not you, but people try to paint every undocumented immigrant as some violent sex offender. When the President of the United States. That's the thing we don't know about these undocumented immigrants. You see, my stance is we need legal immigration. I agree. I'm glad we agree on that. Can I ask, would you let your daughter go over to her friend's house? If the scenario that I laid out earlier exists, I wouldn't want her around. But here's the thing. Trump, if he was truly what they're claiming he is to be, why does his granddaughters love him? Why do his children love him? Right. You would assume if he has those tendencies, he would like. Hopefully not. But the situation is pedophiles do that. He said a lot of weird things about his own daughter. But even if I were to concede that he treats his own children well, what about Virginia Giuffre, who was groomed out of his Mar a Lago spa? I'm sure no one in this room would want their daughter to be in the Mar a Lago spa in the early 2000s, where Jeffrey Epstein was grooming women out. So when you look at statistics and you look at the proportions, you are much, much safer with the average undocumented immigrant than with Donald Trump. Mr. Mar. A lago sex trafficker, you've been eliminated by the. Appreciate you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. Okay, so the first thing I want to say is you mentioned Howard Stern. I think there's some really important context to note when we talk about Howard Stern, which is that show was in the early 2000s. They always tried to egg their guests on to be extremely edgy. Edgy and say things that would basically stir things up. And so with that context in mind, that is not an actual admission that he did. Well, what about the fact that four 15 year old girls said that Donald Trump walked in in their dressing room when they were part of his beauty pageant? I mean, whether or not that's true. I want to get to one point here. Okay, so if that is. And you condemn it, if that is true, then Donald Trump said it himself. He said it. And then four women crossed. And we have to understand even more. I don't know the context of that. So if that is true, would any context. But I want to ask. I want to ask. No context for making power dynamic abusal. Okay, sorry. Yeah, yeah. I haven't looked at evidence, so I need the evidence. But I want to ask because I think this question really is about a larger immigration policy. What immigration policy are you supporting with this? I support on the highest level an immigration policy where people come into the country legally, where we know every single person who is in the country at all times, because we don't want undocumented people going around in a way that we can have people be competitive in the labor market for immigrants to just integrate into society in a solid way. So I think there's a way better way to do that than, number one, what Trump is doing. Number two, the deportations that he's enacting are crazy. So now I want to also ask, do you support welfare? Do I support welfare? That would be like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. Yeah, sure, to a certain extent. Not for illegal people. Here's what I want to get to. Yeah, yeah. Illegal immigration, or in this case, you'd want it to be legal. Legal, Ideally, yeah. They would all collect on wealth. Welfare. And if you look at it overall, it would be a net drain on the economy. Yes, that is true. And studies that have estimated against it do stuff like estimating that every one out of nine has a graduate or PhD, which is just blatantly false. That is not true. A few things. Every single study on this topic shows that when immigrants move to the country, especially when they're higher, when they're PhDs as well, they increase more or. Sorry, they give more in taxes. They give more. Then what about Giovanni Perry's 2016 study saying that when immigrants move into the country that they are a net benefit? Can you cite a study? The opposite. I can cite theory. I can cite. No, you asked me for a study and you can't cite one. No, there is a study by the Heritage foundation, but again, the Heritage Foundation. So are you saying that illegal immigrants. Because most of these studies are talking. Are you saying that legal or illegal immigrants. No, I'm talking about the policy that you're trying to back is going to cause a net harm. On the economic feature. What's your prescription? You want no legal immigration to the country? No, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Okay, so what's your prescription? Have mass migration and welfare at the same time. You have to choose between the two, otherwise there will be a net drain on the economy. This has been well noted through economists like Milton Friedman. It's not true. Yes, it is. You've been eliminated by the. That was good. Thanks. What's up? Good to meet you, man. Great to meet you as well. I'm Kai. Adam. I think I like what you're doing rhetorically. It's a very interesting strategy. Where do you disagree? Well, I disagree in large degree with the framing. Would you agree with the framing that a child is probably safer off with the average illegal immigrant than with Joseph Biden? I think that's what Republican claim. Perfect. Now that we've agreed, kind of. That the framing is safer, can you point to Joe Biden being friends with prolific sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein? Absolutely. Wait, I mean, there's a web of connections. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did Joe Biden have girls groomed out of his Mar A Lago spa? Did Joe Biden have 26 different credible sexual assault allegations, or did Joe Biden say that he grabs women because they let him do it? Any of those things? Well, it's interesting because I'm not here to say that Joe Biden's perfect, but I just think that equivalency is crazy. I wouldn't want my daughter. I agree. I think the equivalency of the average illegal immigrant, Donald Trump, is crazy. The way that we assemble those statistics is absolutely ridiculous. If you were to take, let's say, what's the Sample size in your study, how many illegal immigrants were included as a part of the study? It was in Texas from 2012 to 2019. I don't know the exact sample. Let's assume it's over 1000. It's statistically significant. There is a power there in the value that the study has concluded with. If we have 1,000 Donald Trumps, which of the two will have been more guilty of violent crimes? Wait a minute, wait a minute. You want to do this? If you have a thousand Donald Trumps versus a thousand undocumented immigrants, one group will have committed violent crimes and the other will not have. The statistics show. That's true. No, that is. That is true. Which violent crime has he actually been convicted of? He was held civilly liable of sexual abuse, sexual assault, number one. But number two, what if you take a thousand people, you take a thousand undocumented immigrants, you take 1,000 Donald Trumps. The statistics show that those thousand Donald Trumps will abuse way more women. 26 versus the average undocumented immigrant commits violent crimes at a two times lower rate than the native born citizen. That's interesting. Trump commits crimes at a higher rate than the native born citizen. That's interesting. Now you see what I'm doing rhetorically. Absolutely, I do see what you're doing. And what you're doing is trying to remove. Poke a hole in it. What you're doing is trying to remove the effect of the crime from the actual people who are affected by it. Which is why you're saying, well, if Donald Trump was in a room with you, the issue is when you analyze the difficult, or rather the amount of crime that these illegal immigrants are actually perpetrating and when you compare it and say that blanket statement, right, that they are less violent than the average native born American, you're not comparing it individually to each group. Would you let someone. The levels of crime, the rates of crime among groups in this country differ significantly based on where you are and based on what the group is. Would you say, that's why I said average. That's why I said average. I mean, you can point to a specific area, but that's why it's average. You understand the not. Would you let someone who was held civilly liable of sexual abuse immigrate into the country legally, you understand? Well, no, I don't think so. No. But you let them be the president. You're not engaging with the, with the statistic that you've brought up at the beginning. Okay. And again, the framing that you're saying, because you're saying the framing that you are providing, if we were to be statistically consistent, would say that with the average illegal immigrant, you are safer than with the average black American. Would you agree with that framing with the average illegal immigrant, you're safer with the average black. Yeah. Yeah. Because black Americans commit crimes at a disproportionate rate. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Okay. So you understand how framing can significantly shape the way that we engage in these conversations. I don't think every black person is gonna kill me, but there is a disproportionality around it. But the thing is, not every immigrant. Listen, not every immigrant's gonna abuse you. I 100% agree. Every one of those thousand Donald Trumps will abuse their power dynamics. Absolutely. Donald Trump throughout his entire life, and none of them will commit violent crime the way Trump leaves immigrants. Don't lose his entire life. As somebody who has abused every power dynamic available to him to prey on girls. Would you let your daughter in the Mar A Lago spa if it were 2,000? No. I mean, Trump is supposed to be safe. Trump's Mar A Lago Spa isn't safe. You're drawing these equivalencies between a property that an individual owns, what occurs on that property, and a condoning of it by that individual. He knew about it. He said he likes him young. He was talking about Jeffrey Epstein. That is an absolute false equivalency. Okay, show me how do those two comments relate to each other? When Donald Trump said in 2003, Jeffrey Epstein likes him young. I'm looking for a clear consistency. Let me finish. Donald Trump says in 2003, Jeffrey Epstein likes him young. That happened, right? Oh, wait, what is that? What did that happen? Let me finish. Did that happen? Sure. Okay. Three years earlier, Virginia Giuffre was groomed out of his spa by Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump held private. Donald Trump held private parties in the 90s where him and Jeffrey Epstein, just those two had 20 calendar girls. You can look this up. I hope there's one on screen where any of the calendar girls. Okay, what about the 15 year old girls that Donald Trump walked in on in his dressing rooms? I mean, no one here. I've had three people say they wouldn't let their daughter around Trump. Three people say they wouldn't let their daughter. I wouldn't let my daughter around Joseph Biden. Again, I'm defending Biden. Well, you don't have to defend a thing. You haven't staked out a position. Biden. You've easily admitted that once we Change the framing to talk, for example, about things that are more relevant to the average. For instance, the average person who is living in Texas. Right. The way that these people are going to feel. The effects of migration are not as an average. There is no cookie cutter, average American study was done in Texas. Hold on. I understand that. That's why I'm citing the study. That's why I mentioned immigration estate. Yeah. Here's the point was you've been adamant. That was really good, man. Appreciate it, man. Likewise. It's good to meet you. Yeah. Great to meet you. Quick. Hey, nice to meet you. Great to meet you as well. Thank you very much for having this conversation. This is great. So I want to start with by saying I think your claim is actually quite absurd because it's really a nothing burger. If Donald Trump is, you know, worse for my. To be a babysitter for my child than an average illegal immigrant, that doesn't really mean anything. True, though. I wouldn't let my kid with anyone. I wouldn't let my kid with Harris, with Biden, with death. There's so many like, are you serious? There's. Okay, wait, so you can concede that your kid's probably not safe with Donald Trump? If I had. With the average undocumented. I think this is a red herring. What I really want to talk about and what I really care about is are our kids safer under Donald Trump or under a potential Kamala Harris administration? Because if you really think about it, if you really think about it when we're analyzing the safety of our children. Kamala Harris is pro abortion. Kamala Harris liked transgender surgeries for minors and homeowners therapies. But if we're talking about specifically limited gration, her open border policies was absolutely drastic. Okay, wait, you want to talk about which administration kids are better off under? The big beautiful bill that we were just all talking about in the last segments will remove over the next decade, hundreds of thousands of people from having school lunch free to talk to you. Are you supporting free school lunch? You support free school lunch? What I want to talk to you. Do you support free school lunch or. No, we're talking about immigration, which is the topic. Wait, no, no. You were just talking about children's safety in America. I'll tell you, I'm going to. I need to propose to you why I think we are gonna be safer under Donald Trump than under potential. Because of transgender people or what? Because of illegal immigration. Under Kamala Harris open border policy, the borders. Under her policy, we had an influx of illegal Immigration, many of which caused children to go missing. But furthermore, Donald Trump is really good at promoting national sovereignty and national identity. And I think that's really the core issue at hand here. When we talk about immigration and we see Donald Trump promoting. Promoting deportations, promoting enforcement on the border is going to unify the nation and bring us back to our national identity. What about the citizen children of people who are here illegally who are now terrified that they're gonna be deported along with their parents, as two people were. What about the kids? Yeah, Donald Trump's actually not doing that many deportations. He's not doing that many deportations. How many? If you look at it, I don't know the exact number. Wait, so how are you gonna claim that he's not doing that many? No, he's. Are you gonna make a comparison? When you go to the number, it's 2 million. I gotta. I gotta mention this. You don't know the number. I gotta mention this. Donald Trump's promotion of national security and national sovereignty in his strict border enforcement policies is what's going on. His talk about mass deportations, it's really good for creating a deterrence effect, truthfully, on illegal immigration, coming to the nation. But what I really want to talk about is that Democrats say all the time that diversity is our strength. And I completely reject that notion. I think unity is our strength. Let me ask you a thought experiment. If I were to take you and drop you off into South Africa. Africa, you wouldn't know what's going on. You don't understand the culture. You don't understand the language. You don't understand what the people around you are doing. Now imagine. That's half of it. Now imagine every single person in the United States felt that way. We would be in total chaos. No one would understand anything that's going on. Do you think everyone in the United States feels that way right now, together as a unified nation? Do you think people feel that way right now? I think. I think under the less radical administration, they are promoting, like, because you said something. Let me respond very quickly. You said a lot. There was a moment where you said something about, rather than diversity, we need unity. Well, both coincide. When we have a diverse nation, a melting pot, as we do, all you can ask for is unity. We have a president of the United States right now who is trying to get the military to boo my side. He called my side nats that need to be taken care of, and he did this. There's a clip of it online. In order to have unity, in order to have unity, you need to assimilate to an idea, which is the idea of America, the American freedom. So what's your broader point here? My broader point is, is that right now, can you concede their children are safer with the average if we. Because it sounds like you did when you sat. I got. I got. Please let me finish. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So under the Trump administration, children are safer than under the Democrat open border policies that we saw. By what statistic? By what statistics? By the border enforcement statistics. How many people across the border since Trump came into office? Since Trump came into office. You want to know what other countries have? Zero. Okay. You obviously don't want to talk about. I will concede right away that Donald Trump has decreased both immigration and tourism into the United States. Yeah. So you want to know what. Kamala Harrison, you wanna know what other. I've been wanting to get finished. You wanna know what other country has zero immigration and zero tourism? North Korea. Russia has no tourism. Yeah, that's crazy. But okay. But you need to have an American idea to understand to and assimilate to. Thank you. That was good. That was really best argument. My last claim is Donald Trump is the most corrupt president in American history. Hi, Adam. I'm Blake. Nice to meet you, Blake. Thanks for being here. Thanks for being a good story. This is a great conversation. I think that Donald Trump maybe is one of the least corrupt presidents in American history. I think that Donald Trump came out of a very corrupt system. Not himself, but the America that elected Trump saw what happened after years of Democrat control, after years of Clintons and Obamas and all these same. And Trump came along and he said, we have to change this. We have to be uncorrupt. We have to be done with these people that coming in. They have these donors controlling them. Think about that 2016 debate. Hillary Clinton came in and she was controlled by the donors. Trump came in and said, I'm spending my own money. I'm not controlled. I can't be corrupt. I get what you're saying here. That's what we like about him. What you're saying is true. A lot of Americans have felt like the system is rigged for years, and it has been. But what Donald Trump did is not unrig the system. System. He re rigged it for himself. When he got into office, his net worth was $4.3 billion. Can you guess by how much his net worth has increased over the past nine months? Liberals always love to. Wait, wait. Can you just. Net worth. Can you just guess very quickly. We really don't care. Okay, so Donald Trump. Listen, our net worth is higher. Donald Trump made our net worth higher. Okay. How did he make your net worth higher? By starting a Trump coin. The name alone. Taxes? No, he increased business in America. He keeps us safe. He has not increased America. I'm sorry. But businesses are struggling under Donald Trump's net worth. Okay, so Joe Biden's net worth during his term went from $8 million. Let me finish. To $11 million. That is a $3 million increase from real estate, from investments that he had. Donald Trump over the past nine months has gained $3 billion in wealth through a few things. Right before he got into office, he started World Liberty Financial, which is a way for people to buy cryptocurrency named Trump Coin. You know about Trump Coin, right? I do. Are you okay with Trump going? I mean, I'm not sure that's on him. It is on him. He literally, two days before his inauguration, leveraged the hype of the launch. How much do you think Trump knows about Meme Coins? Okay, the thing is, it doesn't have to know about it for him to know. It's a good channel of corruption. So, you know, Justin sun is. Tell me. A Chinese born entrepreneur who is being investigated by the SEC for market manipulation and fraud. Justin sun decided to buy $70 billion or 70 million or billion dollars worth of cryptocurrency. It was billion, actually. And then he was allowed to step foot back in the United States for the first time in years because the SEC dropped the investigation. Donald Trump's wealth increase of $3 billion has allowed people to literally get favors. Corrupt people to get favors. You can't point to anything like that with Biden. Really? Yeah. Where did he increase his wealth by like $3 billion in some way? Look at Hunter Biden. Ukraine. Look at all that. What's Hunter Biden's net worth? Much larger than it was before his father was in the Senate and the presidency. You think so? Oh, absolutely. You don't. I mean, if your argument is that Hunter Biden was corrupt and that Trump is less corrupt. So you're saying Trump is the second corrupt person. I want, I want to take it you've been eliminated by the group. That's good. Thank you. What's up? Isaac. Good to meet you. Nice to meet you, Isaac. Awesome. So your claim, just to make sure, is that Trump is the most corrupt president of all time. So what due diligence and evidence, do you have to compare him to every other president? Because you said most. So what other presidents have you done your due diligence to see what their corruption is and to make sure that he is the most corrupt? Yeah. So I think Watergate is a really good analog. Nixon's Watergate was like, at that time, the craziest thing to ever happen in a presidential administration. So Watergate was awful. But my argument is there is a Watergate happening basically every single day. What Donald Trump has done is set up a few buckets for people to funnel money into, and then he uses those buckets to give favor. So I've already talked about the Trump coin and I talked about Justin sun, but there's other good examples, like Melania Trump, for example, met with Jeff Bezos behind the scenes at the White House and then got a $40 million movie deal right away. It's interesting because I just. Sorry, a quick tangent that I want to go on. In the 90s, Hillary Clinton got in this huge, huge scandal because she made $100,000 a decade prior off of cattle futures. Donald Trump and his family make billions. Billions. And this is like not even a blip in the news. So that's what I'd compare it to. Hillary Watergate. Yeah. So only Hillary and Nixon. I mean, do you have any better analogs? Who would you say is more corrupt? Well, my argument isn't so much who's more corrupt, it's that you're claiming that he's the most corrupt, but you haven't done your due diligence on every other president. There are big tent pole moments in history, like Watergate. LBJ had some election corruption, but Donald Trump, between his fake elector scheme, between his wealth enrichment and between the favors he's getting from Qatar. Do you know about the $400 million Qatari jet? Yeah. Do you think there's any analog in American history to the $400 million Qatari jet? Not off the top of my head, but I'm also not making the claim that he's the most corrupt. No, no, that's fine. I'm not trying to like, press you or anything, but there's just no analog to this wealth increase in the favors that Donald Trump has given. Okay, so you would equate financial gain to corruption and only financial gain to corruption? No, there's a few other ways. There's like bribery, quid pro quo, there's pardons, there's certain things. Yeah. What I'm trying to get at is I'm not going to deny that everything that Trump has done has not have some emphasis of corruption. But what I am trying to point out is the fact that you are labeling him as the most but completely disregarding every other presidency up until that point, because you're not every single one. I gave a really good example of 1992 when Hillary Clinton got in a big scandal. And then I compared how Melania Trump made, like 4,000 times that money. You know, so, I mean, we can look at other analogs in history. There's never been a fake elector scheme. Do you remember Obama coin? Or like Hillary Clinton? No, there was no Obama coin. There was no Hillary coin. Trump coin is unique in many ways. Okay, but what does Trump coin equate to? Corruption? How is it corrupt? It's an untraceable way for people to funnel money into a big coin. Corrupt? No, because bitcoin isn't being held by the president and used for favors. Donald Trump. So here's the thing with Trump coin, it is not only untraceable, but people can tell Trump, hey, I'll donate to you. And then they not only gain leverage over him. Okay, great. Hey, great to see you again. Yeah, nice to chat again. So I just want to say. And I'll address that. I do think there's a. There's a lot of corruption with the Trump administration, but I'm gonna put that aside. I don't think it's the most corrupt administration, but that has a lot to do with definitions. First, I wanna say you call Trump a fascist. You strongly, strongly implied he's a pedophile who's escaped the law. Do you think he's not a pedophile? Do you think he was? I don't think that he sexually assaulted any children violently. And now you're saying he's the most corrupt president in US History? To me, it sounds like fascist, Most corrupt in history, pedophile who's escaped the law because. Because of his political influence or something. Why don't you want Donald Trump dead? Because the American political system should not have violence involved at it in any step. I think part of the beauty of America is that you and I are able to sit down across from each other or anybody in this room, and we're able to have a conversation. Even if it gets a little bit feisty, even if people knock over the clock on accident, we're able to go around and have a good conversation. Nowhere in that process should violence be involved. When Charlie Kirk was shot, it shook me up. It's not good. That should never happen happen. Nobody should enact violence. And I tell my audience that all the time. You can call somebody corrupt you can call somebody. I mean, dude, Donald Trump called Biden a fascist. Donald Trump said Biden, Kamala were the stopping like an example. Do you think someone would have been justified in killing Hitler? Justified in killing Hitler at the end of World War II? You could say in the lead up, whenever he started putting Jews in gas chambers, I think he had a good cut off. I think that the man who was genociding Jewish people could be justifiably killed. But Donald Trump isn't genociding any sort of group right now, so that's a little bit different. Well, what I hear is fascist. And you say you attach all these things. So I think that there's a strong implication there that some violence is justified. But I think that has more to do with your watered down definition. Wait, wait. Do you think that people in positions of power shouldn't call the other side fascist? Yeah. Well, I will say the Trump administration uses divisive rhetoric and it's. Do you think they shouldn't use the word? So when Trump, When Trump called Kamala fascist, was he calling for Kamala to be killed? No. Why not? Because there's not this consistent. This consistent. He did it over and over throughout the day. No, no, no. There's not a consistent force of claims and a culture. Right. That supports. Stephen Miller just said the Democratic Party isn't a. He said it's not a political party this way. It's a domestic extremist organization. There's differences with the audience that you're speaking to. So when Democrats say someone's a fascist, someone's violent, Democrats actually go out and commit these acts of violence is what we see all the time. Really. So there's a. Yes, of course. You see this basically every single study. I can point to the one by the csi. Yeah, you can cite whatever study. Like you cited the study on illegal immigrants earlier. There's no, like basic. No one had a counter study. What's the methodology of that study? Explain it to me. Wait, the political violence study by the csis. Let's talk about this one very, very quickly. They go through all of the violent lethal crimes over the past decade, or it might be two decades. And when what it shows with the Minnesota incident. And also I want to say there's a difference between the far right violence that's fully, fully denounced. There's fringes of the Republican Party that aren't allowed anywhere near it. My problem is that leftist ideology is an ideology of violence. The difference. That's not true. The difference that I see between you think Chuck Schumer is causing violence in comics? Chuck Schumer. Let me finish. Finish speaking. Okay, so the Chuck Schumer. Let me. The difference that I see with. With Democrats and Republicans. See, now I lost my train of thought. Oh. Is the Democrats do have a culture of supported violence. The Republicans just don't. Wait, are you sure Donald Trump pardoned 1600 people who beat the shit out of cops? What's the analog to that with Democrats? So you're telling me that all of those people were violent offenders? No, I'm saying that. So how many of them were violent? 1600. How many of those people were violent offenders? I mean, the amount of people that beat cops. How many of them were violent offenders? Probably a few dozens. A lot of them were. Dozen. Yeah, a few dozen. So. So upwards of. You're okay. Violent offenders. You're okay with a few dozen people? Violent people. No. Trump went out of his way to not pardon violent offense. He pardoned everybody. It was a blanket pardon. It was a blank pardon for the trespassing that happened in the Capitol. Are you going to concede that Trump is the most corrupt president American history? No, I'm not. Okay, then let's go back. So my definition of corruption would be for personal gain, doing things, and I would say going up for a bid for reelection would also be corruption. If you do things you know are bad for the country in order to get reelected. So that. For that reason, and I'll grant you it's an unconventional definition, I would say probably FDR or lbj most corrupt in American history. Your definition wasn't even that far off mine. It's using. Yeah, it's using public office for private gain, which is fine. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about your election analogy. So, lbj, you think I'll have those N words, voting Democrat for the next 200 years? That corruption. That's racism. No, that is corruption. It's him saying, I'm going to give things to this section of the population. All right, now I let you finish. There you go, Speedy. Nice to see you again. Long time back. I want to circle back to a point that you brought up, which was the Trump coin. And can you explain why that's such a good example of corruption in your view? It is the perfect example of corruption because Donald Trump leveraged the hype of his inauguration two days before to release a Trump coin and then a Melania coin. Not only is this unprecedented, this has never happened like this before, but it then led to an unprecedented wealth increase over the first nine months. This wealth increase was through people funneling money into his Trump coin and getting favors in return really quick. The reason it's probably unprecedented is because crypto's not been around for long enough for other presidents to have done something like that. Okay, but. And I will. Jimmy Carter put his farm in a blind trust. Donald Trump created Trump. I think that it was a scummy thing to do, but I don't think it's a clear sign of corruption. It is when I see corruption, when I think corruption, I think of things like, not to circle back to Russiagate, but like the Obama administration literally spied on like the leading Republican candidates campaign and tried to, to frame him for treason. This is not true. But do you think that's more corrupt than getting $3 billion in net worth increase? And from the, from the, like crypto poll, I mean, yeah, because I don't see the clear tie between like the Trump coin and like political action of political. Trump coin is owned 75% by Trump and his family, invests throughout the term, meaning money gets released to Trump and his family. What this allows is for people in an untraceable manner to donate to this and then get favors. Like I said earlier, you don't, you don't know any of that's happening. Wait, Justin sun was allowed to step foot in the United States and then went to a private dinner with Trump for the executive branch? I can. You don't know that it's because of Trump coin. You don't know that any of this is happening with that. Trump has sold a lot of things, this guy, publicly. Trump has sold a lot of cheap products. He sells Trump watches, he sells Trump commemorative coins, and he sell a Trump cryptocurrency. To me, it seems like he's like a businessman who's been doing business for his entire life and he's just doing another business. I want to draw a distinction. Maybe it's a scummy thing to do, I think. Like, like selling cheap commemorative coins to Scott. I think it's really important to draw a distinction between monetizing your name, monetizing the presidency by selling things, and actual corruption. So what Donald Trump is doing corruption? I think it was the same example. Okay, so when Donald Trump gets a $400 million jet from Qatar and then Qatar builds a $5.5 billion golf course in their country, and now Trump is doing joint training exercises with them in the United States. Is that quid pro quo corruption? I don't know all the details for that. So do you know about the $400 million jet? I do know about the personal gain. I don't. Is that for the American people? That wasn't given to Trump. It was given to, like, the government. It was given to Trump. So after Trump's term, where does it go? I believe into like the government's property, the Trump presidential library. It is only for Trump to use. Is that. Is the presidential library owned by Trump? It is only for Trump to use. It is owned by Trump. Okay, wait, wait. They gave it to the government and after Trump's term, it's going to the government? No, it's going to his presidential library. It was a gift to. If the government owns it, they can like take it from the presidential library and put it somewhere else they can put it. So you're just conceding that it's fine to take $400 million gifts even though it violates the emoluments clause which says you can't take gifts from other countries? That is definitely. I think there's far other, far greater issues of corruption in our country's history. And I think singling out this one where Trump, or not even Trump, like the government was given a jet by one of our allies is not all that. If you can hand wave Trump coin and the wealth increase and you can hand wave other countries giving him gifts, then I guess I would. It's not necessarily handwave weighing it. I'm just saying your claim is he's the most corrupt president because he's rigging the system for himself. You are speculating that it's not speculation. You are speculating. You're speculating that there was a quid pro quo going on with Trump in Qatar. You're speculating. Absolutely. Is funneled money into Trump's campaign. Or what about a few days ago when the leader like clear examples that we've seen that there are released documents. So that's clear. Wait, that's clear. But Donald Trump and it being a hoax, they all knew it was like. Did you read the documents? The documents didn't say what you think they said. They did say. Animated by the group. Okay, thank you. Welcome back. Hello. Okay, so the prompt is that Trump's the most corrupt president, right? Yeah. So I would like to make a reference to something I spoke about previously. The Biden administration and the millions of immigrants, illegal undocumented immigrants that they were letting in, that were disservice servicing the poverty population in the lowest margin below legal immigrants that were coming in and working hard to get those opportunities. And they were rigging the system for illegal undocumented immigrants to receive all the benefits that all these people worked for a citizenship to get. First of all, these were asylum seekers. The border wasn't just open. There was an abuse of the asylum system, but it was open, but people were just coming through. How come in August there was 265,000 undocumented immigrants that came in with no paper and. No, no, just process. This August. No. Just process. No, last August. Hold on, let me. You're good. Sorry, I missed my medication, so I'm like, trust me, you're good. Sorry, guys. Anyway, so what I see as corruption is I see my grandparents with tears in their eyes because they don't qualify for medi Cal because our tax dollars are going towards people we don't even know are here and that are being brought here and throwing. I don't think people should come here illegally. We agree on that. I think the Biden's border policy was rather indefensible. I don't agree with the fact that it was an open border, but I would never defend Biden's border policy. I think that it was sloppy and he should have been stronger on it, not corrupt. What's your definition of corruption? Corruption, I believe, is when things are happening that are an injustice to the people. And I believe that the disproportionate illegal immigration, where thousands and thousands and thousands and thousand people are just coming in, first of all, taking entry level jobs from legal immigrants that are saving up the money to keep their permanent citizenship and keep them here. That's a different topic. Do you know what the fake elector scheme is? I do. Back when Trump lost the election, he did the fake elector scheme. How would you describe it to me here? I'll just. There was some sort of phone call, right? Yeah. The phone call has something to do with it, but essentially electors in each state certified illegal immigrants were allowed to vote for Biden and they were being told if they voted for Biden that. That they would be able to come here and receive all these benefits. That's. Who told them that? Who told them that? The Biden administration. Biden never said that. I'm sorry about that. They were being brought in here to vote for him. Let me just finish off being given a free pass to be in here. You've been eliminated by the group. Thank you. Yeah, sorry, I get. No, just trust me, you're fine. Nice to meet you, Nick. Nice to meet you. So at the end of the day, do you think Trump has been a net positive to this country. You call him a fascist. You're calling him all these terrible terms. Do you think Trump has done good things? Has Trump done good things? Sure. I think Operation Warp Speed was good. Do I think he's a net benefit to this country? No. I think the erosion of democratic norms that we've seen throughout Trump's term is absolutely absurd. I want to re pivot to the fake elector scheme because I think that one's really, really important. Essentially, what Donald Trump did was after he lost the election, he understood that he lost the election. There were electors in seven Sweden swing states. He had people forge their signature and act like they were the duly elected electors when they were. Who was the president the past four years? Biden. Biden, Right. But at the time, this was Trump. This was when Trump. This was when the transition of power was happening. He still worked within the confines of democracy. He did not. The fake elector scheme was necessarily illegal. That's why people were arrested and indicted. That's why all of the fake electors in the state of Georgia were arrested on a RICO charge. A RICO charge. And Donald Trump's corrupt ass then said, let's pause this investigation. But you call him a fascist. He works within the confines of democracy. He's a. It's not. Do you think the 2020 election was stolen? I don't think it was. Okay, so do you think that Donald Trump claims it was stolen? He was not the president. Wait, wait. Does Donald Trump claim it was stolen? He says there's serious arguments against what he should do. Not just serious arguments. He said they stole it from me. He said, this is awful. He said, we need to take our country back. So you guys keep taking problem with me calling him a fascist. But then most of you guys conceded that the 2020. That's dangerous rhetoric. Wait a minute. It's dangerous rhetoric to convince half the country that the election was stolen. Do you think it's fascistic to try to thwart the peaceful transfer of power and get your vice president hung while he's certifying the election results? He did. Did people chant hang Mike Pence? Does Mike Pence support Trump today? Wait, what? Why isn't Mike Pence's VP right now? Trump was not in office. He can. He conceded. He didn't. He never conceded. He didn't call. Please. He's never. He has never conceded till this day. Can this pop up somewhere? He was not. He was in office when this happened in action. He didn't. He didn't call the National Guard and come in, say he Conceded in action by storming, having his base storm the Capitol in 2028. He's gonna, you know, he's done right. I mean, he does a lot of 2028 hats. Is it okay to say that's a little bit weird and fascist? He's been. He's doing incredible things for like what. He's making this country great in a lot of ways. He's bringing back a lot of jobs. He's making this country great. If you were a billionaire, if you were potentially on Epstein's island and don't want to get caught, he's making this country great for all of the wrong people. Meanwhile, in our generation, unemployment is up, prices have gone up, It's a mess. I really do think that this rhetoric of hate really does need to stop from the left. You're comparing some someone to Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, all these guys. It's evil. And we just can't have this in this democracy. I'm not saying he's genociding people like Hitler, but I'm saying the election denial, the erosion of democratic norms, and everything that Trump has done to my city of Chicago is absolutely insane. It's definitely fascistic, and there's just no doubt about it. All right, time is out. See, you may have done to the chair. Adam will now choose someone from the outer circle to come back to the center and debate their claim. I would like to choose the blue shirt guy. The reason why I chose you is because you very clearly challenged me and knocked me off for a second on the Medicaid thing. And I actually. That was good. It was a good debate. And I want to continue a discussion on your claim. Let's hear it. Perfect. I appreciate it. Well, of course, my claim will be kind of going back to that first thing that we talked about earlier is that the left in the United States is far more fascist than the right in the United States. Really? How do you define fascist? Yes, we'll start off with that. So I define it as one that wants totalitarian rule and aims to establish that by dissenting forcibly opposing views. How do you define totalitarian? I'd say authoritarian. Totalitarian, just like one party rule. Okay, so how does this describe Joe Biden or any Democrat? More so than the person who denied elections. More so than the person who is literally indicting his political appointment opponents. We can talk about the indictments. Do you think that. Yeah, let's talk about the indictments. I would love to talk about that. So you brought three indictments. The three sets of diamonds earlier With Letitia James, James Comey. And the third one was. Well, it was more that Donald Trump sent out a post naming three people. Let's just dive into the details of those. Because, because you said that that's an example of fascism on the part of the president. Absolutely. So let's dive into each of those. So Letitia James was indicted for mortgage fraud. And there was, there's actually, if you read the indictment, there's a pretty good evidence, evidence that Leticia is actually guilty of mortgage fraud. James Comey, I don't think they've unsealed that indictment yet. So we don't know exactly what he's being charged for. But Michael Cohen, who's obviously a super anti Trump guy, even went on msdnc, msnbc, same thing and said that James Comey is probably guilty of those charges and John Bolton has been indicted. Listen, my problem is not with Letitia James. I actually think it's fine for this investigation to go on until Letitia James and I think she should be tried by a jury of her peers. But the problem is Eric Siebert, who is the federal prosecutor for the Eastern District of Virginia, a very well respected guy, he was told to indict those three people and he refused to. Wait, let me finish. He refused to bring those indictments. Do you know what happened to him? Yeah, he resigned. Trump forced him to resign and threatened him. And then that week, Donald Trump, if a prosecutor isn't gonna do their job, they should 100% resign. If you're not gonna prosecutor is the one who designs, then absolutely. You don't deserve that job. Do you think it's the job of the President of the United States to number one, force them out of their job and number two, direct people. Okay, so can you name Joe Biden doing that to anybody? Yeah, him directing Merrick Garland to open investigation. But how? So when did he direct Merrick Garland? That was what. That was what? One of the things that Joe Biden said in the lead up to. He never said inauguration, never said he did. Him and other prominent Democrats called for President Trump to be held accountable for January 6th. He never. What Merrick Garland was doing. No, no. So wait, you think that Trump directly. Do you know the Pam Bondi tweet I'm talking about? When Trump tells Pam Bondi, he says, pam, I need you to indict these people. Yes, that is in the purview of the President. Yeah, absolutely. To make sure that the President of the United States to direct his Attorney General. I want to ask you one More time. One more time. No, real quick, one more time. If the left can co. When did Joe Biden direct Merrick Garland? And can you quote it? Because what you just said was a lie. Joe Biden never directed me. It's pretty obvious that Merrick Garland, he fired Merrick Garland. That was what Merrick Garland did. On Twitter, your claim is that it's, quote, obvious that Biden did it, but you have no evidence. But this obvious tweet from directing Pam Bondi is not enough in your eyes. It doesn't matter if it's public or private. The fact of the matter is that on the right, we actually prosecute people for real crimes they committed, whereas on the left, they make up crimes. For example, the one crime that Donald Trump got committed on the State of New York by Leticia falsifying business record 34 times. You had to combine two separate. Two separate crimes. They could combine them into one, extend a statute of limitations just to charge President Trump on it. Do you even know the mechanism for. For how they found him guilty? Like, what did they find him guilty of falsifying business records 34 times? Like. Yeah. Do you know what. No, actual. What the actual crime was that they were alleging. Yeah. He was trying to pay Stormy Daniels and they lied about the payments. Yeah. They said that he should have classified it, I believe, as a. As a campaign expense. I personally don't think that that should be classified, but the jury did. The jury thought it was. So you disagree with the jury of Trump's peers that were picked through the process of voir dire by Trump's own lawyers? Yeah, yeah, that was absolutely. Yeah. It was a obviously politicized trial in 1880. Okay. But the latitude claims trial isn't politicized. No. Because there's actual evidence of mortgage fraud. The crime. Should he be charged? Yes. Okay. He didn't give any crimes, though. Wait, I think according to who? What do you mean, according to who? If you read the actual indictments. I read the indictment, and it went through not only a grand jury, the indictment, but then an actual jury that Donald Trump and his lawyers. That's not evidence of anything. Of course. Yeah. I can use the same thing with Letitia James. Literally, they say that a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. So before you call it a fascistic, why don't you actually see the evidence and let the trial play out? You're not engaging with what I'm saying, but sure. Let's move to the other reasons why the left is more fascistic. So the main Reason why I would say that that is the rise of political violence that we have seen on the left, especially in the recent years with, with Donald Trump attempting to be assassinated twice and Charlie Kirk's actual assassination. How that is the textbook definition of fascism. You don't see that on the right, do you think? You don't see that on the right. No one was. When was last time that Joe Biden had an assassination attempt? Or Barack Obama or Bill Clinton? Melissa, wait, listen. Any prominent Democrat Melissa Hortman and her husband and her dog were shot in their home. They were shot in their home by vampire bolter. You talking about the Minnesota lawmaker case? Yeah. What is your evidence that's right wing. That he was right wing. The guy he was appointed by, Tim Walsh, the guy had a list of Republicans that he was going to their houses or. Sorry, the guy had a list of Democrats, he was going to their houses. I misspoke. And he was trying to take them out. He killed Melissa Hortman and her daughter who was appointed by Democrat lawmaker Tillman. This is not true. This dude was a Republican. He was a Republican. Are you claiming that this was Democrat on Democrat violence, what is your claim? Here's Republican on Democrat violence. There's also no evidence he was not appointed by Tim, Tim Walls by the right wing. He was a part of some board that Tim Walls was also a part of. This is like, what's your evidence that he was motivated by right wing politicians? A few things. He left or in jail. He said that he did this because he doesn't like Democrats. I promise you he told someone this in jail. He also literally went to, I think it was five different Democrats house, but only two families were home. And he killed Melissa Hortman and then he shot the man, but he survived. And so here's the big difference. Difference, here's the difference between that and what happened with Charlie Kirk and President Trump. On the right, you really don't see anyone celebrating that. On the left, you absolutely see people celebrating Charlie Kirk's assassination. You saw people on TikTok and Instagram saying that they hope that the shooter who shot a President Trump missed. They're like, how? How did Kenny miss? That would never happen. On the right, we don't celebrate assassinations. You guys do. Can you name one Democrat in power who celebrated? One Democrat in power celebrated. No, my point is, can you name. I want. My point is, one Democratic point is this is that this is a cultural problem with the left. The left as a whole, their culture is fascistic. So you guys don't. Can't name one Democrat in power who celebrated. But when Nancy Pelosi's husband, Paul Pelosi had his head bashed in with a skull, somebody. Sorry. Had his skull bashed him with a hammer. From somebody who supports Donald Trump. Trump and Don Jr. Posted memes about that. They posted memes about it the next day. Do you think there is a difference between somebody in power making fun of a violent crime versus random people online? I think. I think that it's indicative when you have the entire left as a whole. No, no. Answer my question. Is there a difference between power. There is. There is a difference. Because when you see an entire political ideology, the whole, like, pretty much the entire grassroots leftist operation. So now you're categorizing my entire party as like, what if I think that on college campuses, as a president of the College Republicans of America, when, when chapters across country tell me that they're tabling on campus, you have people coming up celebrating that Charlie's death, that that is indicative of a cultural problem with the left. That is that you just don't see on the right. You just don't see this on the left anywhere. You absolutely do. Well, when was the last time you've ever seen. You've ever been on a college campus? He's someone on the right trying to celebrate politically. I don't even have to look at college students. I can look at the actual leaders of the party who are making fun of Paul Pelosi. What about Mike Lee, Senator Mike Lee, or Representative Mike Lee made fun of Melissa Hortman and made jokes about it. Do you condemn that? I don't know. What jokes did he make? He was saying that it was something about the shooter being. I don't even know. He was making a bunch of jokes about the shooter doing this for some crazy reason. And then he got confronted in Congress. He made a series of jokes online that he had to delete. Do you condemn that? Are you saying that he was making fun of people on the left saying that it was politically motivated then? No, I don't condemn that, no. He was making fun of Melissa Hortman days after she died. Okay. Do you think it's okay for Trump to post, like, AI videos of Paul Pelosi or whatever? He posted an AI video of Nancy Pelosi laughing about Paul Pelosi. I didn't see the video, so I can't say. But what I can say, again, I didn't see people on college campuses doing this, so I can't Say I don't know. I mean you can, you can pretty easily look at social media and find people selling. Celebrating it. I mean like, like people said earlier, you have people posting but no Democrats in power. What do you mean no Democrats? You're saying if you want to talk about Democrats who are trying to get power, we could talk about the Virginia AG candidate Jay Jones who said that he hopes that people on the right kids die. I condemn that. You can never that perfect. So then he should drop out of the race. Sure. Can you name a single Democrat in power who didn't condemn that? Yeah, the, the virgin, the guy, the person who's running for Virginia's. No, she. In a debate last week she said of course I condemn it. Even Jay Jones she didn't condemn enough to tell him to drop out of the race. She should tell him to drop out. But here's the, here's the, here's the fundamental difference. Right now you are pointing to people on my side and you can't name a single Democrat in power who made fun of Charlie Kirk. You can't name a single Democrat in power who said that. Jay Jones. What he said was good. I can point to multiple. Well, you have many cheats and AOC who come out after the fact of Charlie's assassination, said he was a racist and were against memorializing an American hero in Congress. So they weren't celebrating any of the. Okay. There is a fundamental difference between the way the two parties function and it's because Stephen Miller the other day said the Democratic Party is not a political party. It's a domestic extremist organization. When you have Trump of that. Of that political party going out and celebrating the death of the other side, then Absolutely. Do you think it's okay to categorize the entire party? 100% needs to be de. Radicalized the Democratic Party. Okay. But you can't name a single Democrat. It is a problem when the base of your car of your. Your party is celebrating other people's death. It is a problem when people of your party are openly calling for debt for death of people like Charlie Kerr. It is a problem when the. When the motives of the shoot are very clear that it was emboldened by Democrat politicians. When they have catch this fascist. So that it is. It is clear that Democrat politicians rhetoric around Donald Trump being a fashion. Charlie Kirk. You can't name a Democratic politician that we've celebrated assassinations. That's the reason that Donald Trump has tried to be assassinated. That's the same reason that Charlie Kirk Was. Is there any proof that Thomas Matthew Crooks was even a liberal? What's your proof that Thomas Matthew, he, he donated to Act Blue? That's not true. What do you mean it's not true? Yes, it is. He registered as a Republican solely for the purpose of coming after Donald Trump and voting in Nikki Haley in the primary. So this is your proof? He was like 20 when this happened. When he was 20. What does that mean? He didn't even donate in the last election cycle. It was obvious that he was a Democrat, like I said, because he donated to Act Blue before. Wait, so it's obvious he's a Democrat, but Melissa Hortman, shooter, who had a list of six different Democrats, is an Republican? Do you see the double standards here? And no, you don't. Not. Not at all. Because it's that throughout this entire debate, you guys are able to draw connections even with Pam Bondi. You said that Biden. There's no actual proof of Biden asking Merrick Garland to do this, but the proof of Trump asking Pam Bonnie to do this isn't enough proof of. Again, there's no actual proof is that Merrick Garland on day one did it after being appointed from Biden. He didn't. He slow walked it. He did not do it on day one. And Biden never asked him to do that. Because there is a clear Merrick Garland was a pussy. He was somebody who slow walked every single case. He was absolutely a pussy. I mean, if he was actually as strong as you guys thought he was, then Trump would probably be in jail for trying to overthrow the 2020 election right now. There was no crime there. But time, time's out. Thank you so much. Good work, man. A lot of people in this room probably thought I was going to be way more mean or aggressive or insufferable, but there was this vibe where afterwards everyone was like, hey, that was a great conversation and we need more of those. In fact, I might have more conversations. So I think there's a dynamic where this proves that America still can be based on conversation and not online divisiveness. I think Adam was such a nice young man too. And especially he's someone I feel like, dude, we could totally hang out with. Right. That's something I really respect. I could tell he was prepared and he had brought notes and he was ready. Right. And I think sometimes you get into conversations with people and you just can tell very quickly they don't know what they're talking about. I do appreciate that he did acknowledge he agreed with some of my points. He didn't just veto it because we're on different sides. You know, I very much appreciated the fact that he was extending his arm to compromise. The thing that Adam said that I agreed with the most is that of the kind of moral issues in Donald Trump, that is an Achilles heel that the Republican Party has right now. Just that impropriety that, honestly, Adam is correct to point out, that exists, in my opinion, in both parties. Adam was very nice. There was a moment where Marty cooked him. He really, really showed him that he was wrong. And he admitted, you know, he said, you got me. And I think it takes a really big person to just say, yeah, I'm wrong. Because at the end of the day, if you have a real ideological opposition to someone else, try to convince them otherwise. Don't try to cancel them or stop talking to them or hope that someone kills them. I think conservatives and liberals can come together by trying to shed the online algorithms that divide us and promote the most outrage and having more in person conversations about issues that matter. Once you strip the online divisiveness, you find a human being on the other side who's willing to shake your hand after. Don't forget to subscribe to Surrounded wherever you get your podcasts so that you don't miss an episode. And if you want to watch the video version of Surrounded, subscribe to Jubilee on YouTube.