Dean Withers vs 20 MAGA Women | Surrounded

Summary

Surrounded - Dean Withers vs 20 MAGA Women (Jubilee Media)

Podcast: Surrounded
Episode: Dean Withers vs 20 MAGA Women
Date: June 21, 2026
Host: John Regalato

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Episode Overview

This explosive, high-energy episode of Jubilee Media’s Surrounded features progressive commentator Dean Withers at the center of a fiery debate circle confronting 20 female Trump supporters. The discussion ranges from gender and leadership, Trump’s record on women’s rights, and the definition of feminism, to abortion, sexual misconduct allegations, immigration policy, and the 2026 political landscape. Tension, humor, and moments of deep frustration punctuate the debate as deeply divided Americans wrestle with complex questions and challenge each other’s worldviews.

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Key Discussion Points & Notable Segments

1. Are Men Better at Leading Than Women?

[02:12 – 21:24]

Dean opens with his claim: "Men aren't better at leading than women," sparking a series of passionate face-offs.

• Laurie argues foreign policy requires male leadership due to other countries' perceptions; mentions women's hormonal cycles affecting leadership decisions.

  • Laurie: "If I've got PMS, I'm gonna make different decisions… I believe as a Christian, men are supposed to lead." [03:45]
  • Dean rebuts with statistics about male emotional instability: "Tell me why men commit 92% of violent crimes." [05:16]

• Arguments shift to biological essentialism, with several women (Gina, Annette) insisting women are more easily manipulated and men are inherently rational and strong leaders.

  • Annette: "Men are strong, just like Trump… Women would probably say, let me take a break." [09:06]
  • Dean counters with medical studies showing women are more resilient and effective under stress, including in surgery: "Women are biologically designed to deal with stress and pain better than men." [07:24; 17:53]

• A rare moment of agreement emerges with one woman: "Is that not a powerful position? …I respectfully disagree with some of them." [11:00]

• The discussion repeatedly interrogates stereotypical gender norms, with Dean insisting that data and lived experience don’t support claims of male superiority in leadership.

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2. Trump as a "Misogynistic Sexual Predator"

[22:01 – 43:31]

Dean claims, "Donald Trump is a misogynistic sexual predator," citing the E. Jean Carroll verdict, Trump’s own statements on Howard Stern, and the infamous Access Hollywood tape.

• Shiva Bagheri pushes back, demanding proof and expressing preference for men attracted to women: "Men have testosterone and men love beautiful women. Trust me, I would prefer a man that actually looks at women..." [24:13]

• Dean presses play on Trump's own words:

  • Trump (audio): "I'll go backstage before a show... I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant… You see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that." [23:04]

• Arguments pivot to standards of proof, legal definitions, and criminal vs. civil guilt:

  • Dean: "Civil courts don’t send people to jail. They hold people financially liable. That’s the nature of our criminal justice system.” [37:36]
  • Multiple MAGA women repeat disbelief in the court’s findings, cite media bias, and draw rapid comparisons ("What about Bill Clinton?").

• Laurie attempts to normalize male presence in women’s dressing rooms at events, downplays the seriousness: "There are men in the dressing room. It's not uncommon." [39:22]

• Dean and MAGA women clash over E. Jean Carroll’s credibility, the MeToo movement, and false accusations.

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3. Abortion and Bodily Autonomy

[44:29 – 64:44]

The heated abortion segment sees sharp moral, ethical, and philosophical divides.

• Shiva frames abortion as anti-equality, invoking the Constitution: "All humans are equal, correct? ...All humans have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." [44:47]

• Dean presses the issue of brain death and whether pulling the plug is murder, highlighting inconsistencies in pro-life logic: "I don't think all humans have the identical right to life and I don't think you do either." [44:54]

• The exchange gets technical, with discussion of IUDs, Plan B, and legal definitions of murder. Dean repeatedly asks for clarity regarding when life and personhood begin, pointing out the impossibility of a "clean" pro-life stance in all circumstances.

• Extreme pro-life positions are exposed, with some MAGA women refusing abortion even for rape victims or life of the mother:

  • Dean: "If it did [threaten the mother’s life], you wouldn’t be okay with her getting an abortion? That’s insane." [64:35]

• Arguments over the purpose, morality, and legality of abortion spark comparisons to organ donation, and “secondary purpose” (e.g., the unintended side effect of IUDs) analogies.

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4. Donald Trump’s Presidency and Policy Record

[66:16 – 88:08]

Dean asserts: "Donald Trump is a terrible president," and demands policy arguments from the MAGA women.

• Many struggle to articulate policies beyond cultural talking points; border security and drug traffic dominate.

  • Dean: "What is one macroeconomic indicator that's better off today than it was a year and a half ago under Biden?" [66:48]

• Dean pushes back with data:

  • "Unemployment is up. We saw 1.3 million layoffs... GDP growth is down... price of gas up..." [77:37]
  • "Undocumented immigrants pay over $100 billion in taxes..." [68:51]

• The debate grows testy with accusations of media manipulation, deep state conspiracy, and shifting blame for societal decline onto Democrats, elites, or immigrants.

• Foreign policy is discussed, with Israel, Iran, and Trump’s relationship to world leaders:

  • Liz: "I love everything Trump is doing with Israel... he wants to free the women of Iran..." [97:19]
  • Dean rebuts Trump’s negotiations with the IRGC and the strategic logic underlying U.S. alliances.

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5. Does Trump Care about His Supporters?

[89:13 – 97:01]

Dean claims, “Donald Trump doesn’t give a shit about any of you” and lists what he sees as Trump’s betrayals of supporters and American values.

• Gina and others disagree, rattling off actions they see as fulfilling campaign promises, defending Trump’s support for soldiers, police, and “the people."

• The January 6th insurrection is a flashpoint, with debate over Trump’s pardons, the nature of J6, Antifa conspiracies, and what it means to "care" for law enforcement.

• Dean challenges supporters to consider whether Trump’s actions match his rhetoric, especially regarding legal protections, pardons, and real impacts on women's lives.

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6. Final Showdown & Reflections

[104:57 – End]

The host asks Dean to select someone for a final head-to-head. He selects Shiva Bagheri.

• Shiva makes sweeping claims: "Democrats sold our country out...with open border policies, sanctuary cities..." and lauds Trump for killing Soleimani and supporting Israel. [105:14–106:34]

• Dean interrogates definitions (“What’s a communist?”), corrects historical and political errors, and brings detailed evidence.

  • Dean: "MAGA is a slur… it’s embarrassing to be MAGA. Get a grip, you guys." [109:09]

• Shiva insists that liberals lack life experience and common sense, Dean retorts with a call for critical thinking and self-examination:
  -Dean: "It is very important for you, me, everybody in the circle, and everybody watching at home to start caring about the world that we live in...start caring about critical thought..." [114:16]

• Final emotional take:

  • Dean: "…people who believe these things so undoubtedly are laurons [morons]." [116:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Men are men and men have testosterone and men love beautiful women. And trust me, I would prefer a man that actually looks at women and is sexually attracted to women." – Shiva Bagheri [14:02 & 24:13]

• "Did you just unironically say strong alpha males?" – Dean Withers [00:05, 15:25]

• "Tell me why men commit 92% of violent crimes." – Dean Withers [05:16]

• "Women are biologically designed to deal with stress and pain better than men because they have thicker dendrites in their brain." – Dean Withers [07:24]

• "If you kill a unicellular organism, is that murder?" – Dean Withers [52:21]

• "I would never do that to my children." – Laurie [48:19]

• "I think you are a very accurate representation of where the right is at today in modern political discourse and American politics. I think you and many others are clueless people…" – Dean Withers [114:16]

• "I think it's just straight up, one word, projection. Left. Always projects. That's it. You're projecting all of your faults on me because I actually have life experience which you don't have." – Shiva Bagheri [115:16]

• "…MAGA is about being a free thinker and having some common sense." – Liz [117:04]

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | Highlights | |---------|------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | Men & leadership debate | [02:12 – 21:24] | Dean vs. Laurie, Gina, Annette. Science vs. stereotypes. | | Trump & sexual misconduct | [22:01 – 43:31] | Dean plays Trump tapes, discusses E. Jean Carroll case. | | Abortion & bodily autonomy | [44:29 – 64:44] | Deep pro-life/pro-choice debate, philosophical analogies.| | Trump policies & presidency| [66:16 – 88:08]| Macroeconomic indicators, border, Israel, Iran debates. | | Does Trump care about you? | [89:13 – 97:01] | Pardons, J6, law enforcement, motives discussed. | | Final showdown | [104:57 – End] | Dean vs. Shiva—polarization and calls for critical thought.|

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Tone & Style

• The conversation is raw, at times brutally frank, filled with direct challenges, sarcasm, exasperation, and attempts at humor amidst frustrations.
• Dean is relentless, data-driven, and often combative but circles back to calls for rationality and self-examination.
• MAGA women are passionate, mostly unwavering, and frequently cite faith, tradition, or common sense, sometimes sharing personal stories.
• Exchanges often become heated and personal, culminating in honest reflections on the emotional toll and the difficulties of communicating across deep ideological divides.

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Summary

This episode of Surrounded provides a vivid snapshot of the polarization, talking past each other, and the rare moments of introspection in the American debate over Trump, gender, and the culture war. Dean Withers, surrounded by Trump-supporting women, endeavors to ground arguments in data, definitions, and critical examination—often clashing with emotional, religious, and anecdotal rebuttals. The episode is as much about the impossibility of easy consensus as it is about the urgent need for genuine dialogue and self-examination in a divided country.

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For listeners seeking a comprehensive, unvarnished look at the collision between progressive and MAGA worldviews on America’s most incendiary issues, this episode is essential.

Transcript

[MAGA Supporter]

I think that we need strong alpha males like Donald J. Trump, Spencer Pratt, and our loved Charlie Kirk.

[Dean Withers]

Did you just unironically say strong alpha males?

[MAGA Supporter]

We have laws in favor of women getting leadership roles. We're taking opportunities away from men. You are oppressed more than me.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Men are men and men have testosterone and men love beautiful women. And trust me, I would prefer a man that actually looks at women and is sexually attracted to women.

[Gina]

Dude, they had to make things up to get Trump. Trump doesn't have to be a sexual predator. Any woman would love to be with Trump.

[Dean Withers]

All right, listen, put your hand up if you would have sex with Donald Trump.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Has Donald Trump been a good president for women? Or has America moved backward from expanding women's rights to debating how far those rights should go? I'm John Regalato and from Jubilee Media, this is surrounded where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreers. Today we are diving into what feminism means on both sides of the aisle. Abortion rights and President Trump's record. I'm here with our featured guest, progressive commentator Dean Withers. Welcome to the show.

[Dean Withers]

Thank you for having me.

[Host (John Regalato)]

You ready to go?

[Dean Withers]

Oh, I'm excited. This will be fun.

[Host (John Regalato)]

All right, are you all ready to debate Dean?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Yeah.

[Host (John Regalato)]

All right, let's get into it.

[Dean Withers]

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[Annette Davis Jackson]

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[Dean Withers]

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[Annette Davis Jackson]

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[Dean Withers]

Check responses.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Setup required.

[Dean Withers]

Compatibility and availability. Various 18.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

You survived the Miami weekend, nailed the speech and maxed out your credit card in the name of friendship. Now you've got one hangover, four pastel dresses and zero reasons to wear them again. Sell them on Depop.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Just snap a few photos and we'll

[Annette Davis Jackson]

take care of the rest. And you at least get some of your dignity money back. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now, Depop, where taste recognizes taste.

[Dean Withers]

I'm Dean Withers. I'm a 21 year old liberal. I do political debate for a living. And today I'm surrounded by 20 Trump supporters again. But this time they're all women. My first surrounded claim is men aren't better at leading than women.

[Host (John Regalato)]

If you would like to debate this claim, please get to the chair in 3, 2, 1.

[Laurie]

Good to see you again.

[Dean Withers]

Welcome Back. Lori, how you doing?

[Laurie]

I'm doing good. How are you?

[Dean Withers]

I'm doing phenomenal. So the first claim is that men are not better at leading than women. And I'm honestly appalled that you, as a woman, would disagree. But, I mean, if you want to start it off by telling us why you do think men are better at leading than women, the mic is all yours.

[Laurie]

Well, how I would like to start this off is I'd like you to define what a woman is.

[Dean Withers]

Well, sure. I think that the definition of what a woman is is ultimately irrelevant to this debate, and I'm willing to assume.

[Laurie]

No, it's not.

[Dean Withers]

I'm willing to pre assume your definition of what a woman is, I. E. An adult human female. See, if I were to give you my definition of what a woman is, an adult human individual that pertains to the social and cultural characteristics typical that of a female sex indexed to their gender identity, well, then all of a sudden, we're going to be speaking past one another because we define the word woman differently.

[Laurie]

Exactly.

[Dean Withers]

So I'm more than happy to pre assume your definition of this place is

[Laurie]

kind of silly because you don't know what a woman is.

[Dean Withers]

Well, I just told you what my definition of the word woman is. You just simply overlook it.

[Laurie]

I think it would also depend on what leadership role that that person would take. For instance, if you wanted Kamala Harris, who you voted for, to be the president of the United States, we have a problem with that, and I'll tell you why. It's not necessarily the woman, but it is necessarily foreign countries. For instance, the Middle East. If I go to a Middle east country, as a woman, I can't show my hair. At risk of being stoned.

[Dean Withers]

Why are we talking about Middle Eastern countries when the prompt is men are.

[Laurie]

Because you're asking about leading. You voted for Kamala Harris. I think she would have been a horrible leader. Foreign countries don't always see women as respectful as they see a man, a woman, leading this country. For instance, when you go to doing foreign policy and all of those things, they would not have the respect that a man would. I can also say as a woman, depending on your age, if I've got pms, honey, I'm gonna make different decisions than I would. As if I didn't. If I'm going through menopause, I might have hot flashes or whatever else. I believe as a Christian, women. Men are supposed to lead. We're supposed to help. And I'm totally comfortable with that.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, thank you, Laurie. So the first thing I'd point out here is that your position that maybe foreign countries wouldn't respect a female president as much as a male president, I don't think is represented through the fact that on the global stage, Harris had a significantly higher approval rating than Trump during the election. And there's a reason for that.

[Laurie]

Because she would have been a pushover. They would have. They would have walked right over her.

[Dean Withers]

And that's exactly why she had significantly better policy. Better character. Would have been a better president for Mary.

[Laurie]

Not at all.

[Dean Withers]

But ultimately, once again, Laura, the topic of debate is not, was Harris a better option for the president than Trump? Because even if we wanna look at women and men on this macroscopic level of evaluating one woman compared to one man, even if it was true, Harris was a clown and Trump was awesome, that still wouldn't mean that, generally speaking, men are better at leading than women. The last point that you made there was about PMSing. I think that you're, like, indicating that women are more emotional than men.

[Laurie]

On average, they are, 100%.

[Dean Withers]

Then tell me why men commit 92% of violent crimes. Tell me why they're more likely to self commit suicide. So you think that testosterone is what makes men more emotional?

[Laurie]

Absolutely.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, then you just conceded the debate.

[Laurie]

No, I didn't concede.

[Dean Withers]

You just said that. Absolutely men are more emotional than men. Five seconds after saying that women were more emotional than men.

[Laurie]

And that's kind of like somewhat of a red herring because what I'm trying to say to you, women are more emotional. They just are in more of a. I can change my mind depending on my mood. Now you're bringing in anger, you're bringing in violence, you're bringing in.

[Dean Withers]

Is anger an emotion?

[Laurie]

It is, but to a different extent. And honestly, if you've got a man that's violent, out of character alone, I don't want him leading the country.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, that's why he voted for.

[Laurie]

Oh, yeah. You want to get into that? I know that's another problem, but I'm happy to get into that.

[Dean Withers]

I guess we can.

[Laurie]

Never accused. Never accused of.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, we gotta pause there. You've been voted out.

[Laurie]

Good to see you.

[Dean Withers]

Good to see you.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Laurie, if you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Welcome, welcome.

[Laurie]

Hi.

[Dean Withers]

I'm going to give the mic to you. Why don't you tell us all why men are better at leading than women.

[Gina]

Men are better at leading because as a woman, I can tell you that we're emotionally manipulated.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Very easy. We tend to be compassionate because we

[Gina]

as a woman and getting pregnant, it's inherent in us.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Why?

[Dean Withers]

Because we deal with babies, so women deal with babies. Therefore women can be manipulated. I don't think that that argument follows,

[Annette Davis Jackson]

but where it can be easily manipulated,

[Dean Withers]

women can be easily manipulated and convinced. Yeah, what's the argument for that?

[Gina]

It's inherent in us.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, Just saying that it's inherent is like me saying that what is actually inherent of women is that they can't be easily manipulated. That doesn't give me any substance to underpin your position. When you just simply underpin your position by saying, well, it's inherent and it doesn't push this dialogue forward. I would say that men are probably easier to emotionally manipulate than women or else they wouldn't be culpable for 92% of violent crimes. We could emotionally manipulate a man by making him lose a game of Fortnite. The next thing we know, there's three holes in his walls. All right, same thing with self unaliving statistics. Suicide. Suicide's a really bad thing. But it is true that men are significantly more likely to kill themselves than women on average. Same thing with drunk driving, gambling. And then when we look at women, they actually perform better in the fields that are less indicative of emotional outbursts, such as performing well in school. And I mean, this is all underpinned by biology. There was a study done by the American Medical association that proved that if you're operated on by a female compared to a male in the operating room at a hospital, that you're less likely to die or to experience any post negative operative outcomes. Why? Because women are biologically designed to deal with stress and pain better than men because they have thicker dendrites in their brain. So ultimately, the science and the empirical facts completely reject the conclusions that you formed.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Not at all.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Men are more rational.

[Host (John Regalato)]

And women, you've been voted out by the majority. So please return to your seat. If you want to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. Hi.

[Mar / Liz]

Hi.

[Dean Withers]

What's your name?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Annette Davis Jackson.

[Dean Withers]

It's a pleasure to meet you.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Yes, yes.

[Dean Withers]

So let's hear it. Why do you think that men are better at leading than women?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

How about I know that men lead better than women because women have the babies. You're emotional. But more important, I have a dad. I have a dad who is very strong. And when I see what President Trump is embodying, I say, and I know that you can roll your eyes. But you know what my grandmother Used to say, you can roll your cotton balls, but you sure can't shoot them. So men are strong, just like Trump, because in the first day, first hundred days, what did he do? He started writing executive orders. Yeah, he started writing executive orders day after day after day after day after day after day. Women would probably say, hey, let me take a break.

[Shiva Bagheri]

That's why.

[Dean Withers]

Jesus Christ. Okay, well, listen, clearly I disagree with you about Trump, but that's actually not relevant to my counter argument. I'll tell you why. Because even if Trump was a good leader, that doesn't mean that, therefore, men are better at leading than women on average. Like, for instance, in the same way that you could give an anecdote of a man that you think is good at leading to justify the claim that men are better at leading than women, well, I could give an anecdote of the opposite. Hitler was a man. He was a terrible leader, therefore, men are worse at leading than women. All right, but clearly that's not how it works, because we cannot attempt to allow an anecdote of what we think about one individual man to then exist as a portrait for a generalization about all men.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Why did you have to say Hitler?

[Dean Withers]

Because he's obviously a bad leader. That's a man.

[Laurie]

Yeah.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

And you agree the President of the United States, which is the Commander in chief, Donald J. Trump, is a great leader.

[Dean Withers]

Okay.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

And he's a great leader, but against. Because he won a landslide.

[Dean Withers]

Okay.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

And if he could run again, he would run a landslide again.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, guess what? He's not. He's a terrible president. His policy sucks. How about this? What's your favorite Trump policy? I mean, a bill passed through Congress, then signed into law.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I'm a former college coach. And not having men in women's sports.

[Dean Withers]

I'm sorry, what bill was that?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Oh, no.

[Dean Withers]

Well, I'm sorry, what bill was that? I asked you a very specific question.

[Host (John Regalato)]

You gotta stop there. That you've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Okay.

[Host (John Regalato)]

All right, if you want to debate this claim, please get to the center in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Hi, Tracy.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

How are you?

[Dean Withers]

I think I remember you. Were you on my first rounded episode?

[Host (John Regalato)]

Maybe.

[Dean Withers]

Well, I'm gonna pass the mic to you. Tell us why you think men are better at leading than women. It's worth me reminding you, and maybe everybody else in the room, that so far, a lot of the people who've come up and sat in that chair have really missed the mark. Like that last lady, she told me that men are better at leading than women because she likes Trump. Okay, let's hear in general why men are better at leading than women.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Well, this is why you're. I think you're going to be surprised. I actually agree with you.

[Dean Withers]

And why are you in the chair?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

And I dis. I respectfully disagree with some of them. Well, I'm just saying some of the points that they were bringing up about a woman being pregnant and because somebody can carry a baby, that they're not fit to lead. I mean, it's the same argument where we say men go to work and come home when the woman stays and handles the household and the children. So is that not a powerful position? And I also have to. I'm respectfully disagreeing here. And I want you to give me an example, if you can tell me hypothetically of a woman that you think would be a better leader than Trump right now.

[Dean Withers]

So just to clarify, you don't think men are better at leading than women?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

No.

[Mar / Liz]

No, Dean.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Because if I'm any.

[Dean Withers]

I'm really happy. I'm really happy that you don't think

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

that I told you I agree with you.

[MAGA Supporter]

Right.

[Dean Withers]

I want you and everybody else in the room to obviously not think that men are better at leading than women. But unfortunately, the nature of this surrounded episode is where we have disagreers in the hot seat.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yes. So I'm asking you.

[Dean Withers]

I'm happy you're not, though.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So if we're going. If we're walking down a dark alley, let's say we're on Figueroa or something. I would be the person having to protect you. I mean, everybody's built differently. I feel like I would have to be protecting you. I'm taller. I'm. I'm sure I weigh more than you. I mean, you can take as many classes as you want.

[Dean Withers]

Wow.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Yeah.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

But it's true.

[Mar / Liz]

Dean.

[Dean Withers]

I'm not.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Listen, men and women are.

[Dean Withers]

I'm not going to disrespect your ego the same way. You're attempting to insult me. And that's fine. I'll be the bigger person.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No, that's the difference between the left and the right comparison. So it depends on where this conversation is going. If you're looking at body.

[Dean Withers]

It's funny, though.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I'm sorry. There are women that are larger than men.

[Dean Withers]

Can you guys vote her out? Because she doesn't think that men are better at leaning than women.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Tracy, it does sound like you agree on this, so we're gonna have you return to your seat and bring in a disagreeer.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Okay.

[Host (John Regalato)]

All Right. If you disagree with this claim and you wanna be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Hi.

[MAGA Supporter]

Hello.

[Dean Withers]

Your name's Julia.

[MAGA Supporter]

Julia.

[Liz / Kate]

Kate.

[MAGA Supporter]

So I wanna ask you, inherent in your statement that men are not better leaders than women.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah.

[MAGA Supporter]

There's this sense that you believe men and women are different. Correct.

[Dean Withers]

I think that there's obviously distinctions between men and women or else we wouldn't have two different words to refer to two different groups.

[MAGA Supporter]

Okay, so what are some of the distinctions?

[Dean Withers]

Well, I mean, there's distinctions in the sense of cultural and social attitudes and behaviors. There's going to be. That are, of course, innate to men and women because I don't think that prescriptive. I don't think that prescriptive gender norms exist. Now, like from your perspective, that we were to define the genders on the basis of sex, of course, then there's going to be sexual dimorphism and there's going to be differences present within that. Of course. Like there's a plethora of differences. Listen, I'm not denying that there are differences between men and women because once again, if there wasn't differences between men and women, well, then we wouldn't have two distinct groups.

[MAGA Supporter]

Okay. Okay, so we agree on that.

[Dean Withers]

My claim is, is I don't think that any of the differences that exist between men and women would amount to being relevant to justify the claim that men are better at leading than women

[MAGA Supporter]

are better at leading than men.

[Dean Withers]

No, I actually think that gender is completely irrelevant to justify interchangeable is what you're saying of if somebody is better at leading than the other person. I ultimately think that there's going to be no determinative ability, regardless if we're making the claim that men are better at leading than women or women are better at leading than men to ever make that prescriptive.

[MAGA Supporter]

So what I'm hearing is that men and women are essentially interchangeable in your mind.

[Dean Withers]

Well, in my mind, once again, I just don't believe in the prescriptive gender norms. And I think that ultimately one's gender is irrelevant to their leadership capabilities. If you can tell me what are the relevant differences between men and women that make men better at leading than women?

[MAGA Supporter]

Yes. We can go back to the hunter and gatherers, when men were the ones going out to hunt and women's were the ones staying with the children and gathering fruits and nuts. Men are the people that go towards risk, that go towards provision, naturally. Why is it that in today's, even our influencer community, we have more women that are drawn towards beauty, makeup, things like family, schooling. And men are more drawn towards traditionally masculine things. It's innate in every culture that you see this trend. We are hormonally different. That's been mentioned throughout this place. You as a man do not know what it's like to have a cycle, to have a period, to have your hormones go up and down. That is insanely significant for a woman's ability to lead. And women will complain about being scared to walk on the streets at night, and yet they'll elect the same politicians that release the criminals on the street.

[Dean Withers]

Do you think that women should lose the right to vote?

[MAGA Supporter]

I think that we. I'm not talking about that today.

[Dean Withers]

Just gotta get a quick yes or no, then go back to the topic.

[MAGA Supporter]

We need strong alpha males like Donald J. Trump, Spencer Pratt and our loved Charlie Kirk.

[Dean Withers]

Oh, Jesus.

[MAGA Supporter]

Have secure borders. Who will not let criminals.

[Dean Withers]

Did you just unironically say strong alpha males?

[MAGA Supporter]

Strong alpha males, yeah.

[Dean Withers]

Bro, get a grip. Stand up, please.

[MAGA Supporter]

You, bro, get a grip. You're a man. You want a mansplain to me?

[Dean Withers]

Well, I mean, actually you just said that men are better at leading than women, so you should listen to every word that comes out of my mouth, per your perspective. Right, so if you think that men are the strong alpha males and women are the emotional followers, why don't you follow my lead and listen to what I have to say? First off, second, because you don't believe what you say.

[MAGA Supporter]

Dad is a straw man. I believe that male and female are created equal in the image of God. We each have the same dignity and the same value. We have the same brain, the same rationality, but we have different and distinct roles. Okay, why is it that women can get pregnant, only females can get pregnant?

[Dean Withers]

Well, of course that would boil down to the physical biology that it was. Physical biology, because that of the.

[MAGA Supporter]

That women are more geared towards child rearing and child raising than men are.

[Dean Withers]

So once again, the way that we started this conversation was by me agreeing that there are going to be differences between men and women.

[MAGA Supporter]

Exactly.

[Dean Withers]

You just simply disagree. Could I finish? I would love if I could finish. You can't say because there's differences between two things that thereby innately one of the two things is going to be better at leading than the other. Like, I think that's ridiculous. Listen, once again, my claim is that the differences that do exist between men and women ultimately don't amount to justifying the claim that men are better at leading than women. And let me Respond. Because you made a lot of claims. What's going on? I think it's been the opposite to respond to your claims. You said that there's a difference in the hormonal balances of men and women that what, make women more emotional. I mean, I already went over this with.

[MAGA Supporter]

It's not even just more emotional. It's that our bodies are not equipped to handle the same levels of cortisol as men. We need more.

[Dean Withers]

They're actually more equipped.

[MAGA Supporter]

Look at Donald Trump. The man literally lives off of Diet Coke and McDonald's. Okay, we could not do that.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, okay, listen. Actually, women are more equipped than men to deal with stress. It is proven by the science. No, I'll tell you, you could look this up. Anybody at home could look this up. Women have thicker dendrites in their brain. And study after study after study has concluded time and time and time again that this gives women the ability to better manage their stress than men. And you actually brought this up. You brought up childbirth. The reason why women have thicker dendrites in their brain, giving them a greater navigation ability, giving them a greater ability to deal with their pain and stress, is because of childbirth. Okay? And that's exactly why women can deal with their stress better than men. So your claim that the opposite is true is wrong. And plus, once again, when we look in society, how men deal with stress compared to how women deal with stress. Well, when a man gets mad, he commits a violent crime, he kills his wife, he kidnaps his children, he sets his house ablaze. And this is why men are significantly more likely to commit every single crime on the books.

[Shiva Bagheri]

We need to talk to men that

[Dean Withers]

do not have a necessity for any use of physical strength, such as arson, cyberbullying.

[MAGA Supporter]

If you think women are such good leaders, why won't you let me speak?

[Dean Withers]

Well, I'll happily let you speak in response to the things that I've said, as long as you're able to stay on topic in response to Meat on the Boat.

[MAGA Supporter]

Because I'm a woman and I have a brain, thank you very much.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, I guess women are better at leading than women.

[MAGA Supporter]

No, we're not. We're good at certain rules. We have our strengths and our values. We're good at raising children. Very smart and adaptable. But men are the people that need to be out there fighting crime for us, protecting us, so that we feel safe and we can keep our children safe. Why do you think that? Just historically, more men are CEOs, more men are presidents, senators, whatever kind of Leadership role you want to talk about that is not because of white supremacy, colonization, or some kind of legal limit. It's because men are drawn to those roles. Today, women have the same exact rights as men, and still a lot of them choose to stay at home or feel that they can't stay at home because of societal pressures.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, I think that you said it there at the end. Societal pressures. Societal pressures are the reason why. I think that we've seen more men in positions of power, more men in leadership fields, and Mormons calling the shot. But if you're. The position that underpins your claim here would be that if we see an overrepresentation of men in a field in comparison to women, that men are then by definition better performing in that field. So in the same way you're claiming that because of a vast majority of leaders are men, therefore women are worse at leading, would you also claim that men are better at surgery than women because 85% of surgeons are men and 15% of surgeons are women? I just want a direct yes or no to my question so then I can fulfill this up with a dialogue.

[MAGA Supporter]

Become surgeons. Because it's a more masculine thing. It takes more masculine traits to answer my question. I said yes. But I want to ask you, I

[Annette Davis Jackson]

have to hop in here, that men

[MAGA Supporter]

are more oppressed today than women. Men are told that they're toxic for being masculine. The only laws that prevent any gender.

[Dean Withers]

Please don't vote her out. I need to respond.

[MAGA Supporter]

We have laws in favor of women getting leadership roles. We're taking opportunities away from men. You are oppressed more than me.

[Dean Withers]

This chick is crazy. Okay, listen. I think that you're crazy because you just said that I'm more oppressed than you while also claiming that I'm a better leader than you after making the argument that disproportionately, men have been in positions of leadership throughout history, when leadership is what grants power. But anyways, insanity. Listen, I asked you a question. I said, do you think that men are better at surgery than women because 85% of surgeons are men and 15% of surgeons are women. The reason why I asked this question is because you made the claim that men are better at leading than women because the vast majority of leaders have been men. You said, yes, Dean, because a vast majority of surgeons are men. Therefore men are better. The science says, no, men are actually worse at surgery. So the American Medical association did a study in conjunction with the Journal of the American Medical Association. They did this study on 1.4 million patients over six continents in 14 years. And what they determined consistently is that when we account for every single confounding variable that could possibly exist every single time, men are significantly more likely to kill a patient on the operating table or to give them negative post operative outcomes in comparison to women. It is one of the most well accredited studies ever conducted in human history that is reasonably concluded that women are better at surgery than men even though they account for a minority of surgeons. And this is exactly what debunks your claim that if a field is overrepresented by men, that therefore men are better

[MAGA Supporter]

at performing in it of our natural desires and what men and women are naturally drawn to.

[Dean Withers]

But women are better at surgery even though they account for a minority of surgeons. That completely debunks your argument.

[MAGA Supporter]

Sure, that could be a thing. But I'm saying that naturally men are drawn towards roles of risk and provision. That's because of innate biological characteristics.

[Dean Withers]

But women are better at surgery.

[MAGA Supporter]

When I said that you're oppressed because of societal society telling you that you need to be a beta woke man, you are not like oppressed as a leader, like instinctually you want to lead, you want to teach me. That's because of your nature and I appreciate that very much, but I disagree with your claims.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, I mean you have to concede here that your argument that men are better at leading than women because more men are leaders than women is false.

[Host (John Regalato)]

And the reason we gotta stop there. We're out of time, so please return to your seat.

[Gina]

Pleasure.

[Dean Withers]

I surrounded episode you watched and got you scratching your head again thinking, damn, I've raid baited myself on a jubilee video again. Well, I got something else that's going to do the same thing to you or possibly teach you something. You've probably seen me before. I'm Austin Julio Broughton and I'm a Christian populist. And I'm David Mauricio. And I guess I could call myself a progressive. On this show, we're doing something revolutionary. We're trying to bridge the gap in a uniquely divided America by destroying these echo chambers and addressing the issues plaguing everyday Americans. Tune into our show the split Sunday, June 28th on Jubilee. My next surrounded claim is Donald Trump is a misogynistic sexual predator.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, if you want to debate this claim, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Hello, my name is.

[Dean Withers]

Howdy.

[MAGA Supporter]

Howdy.

[Dean Withers]

What's your name?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Shiva Bagheri.

[Dean Withers]

Shiva Bagheri. Well, would you like me to take it away by explaining to you why I think Donald Trump is a misogynistic sexual predator. First and foremost, he's a sexual predator because a court has held him simply liable for raping a woman by the name of E. Jean Carroll. Of course, somebody is something that would make one a sexual predator. In 2005, he also boasted about engaging in sexual violence by sexually exploiting beauty pageant contestants at the beauty pageants that he owned by barging into their dressing rooms and looking at their naked bodies. And this isn't an allegation from some woman that you could defame and say, just wants money or fame? No, this was an admittance of guilt, something that Donald Trump said he did on Howard Stern's radio show. And I see you shaking your head. I'll happily play you the clip if you want. We also see.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Please, please show me the clip, because I do not believe it. Yes, take it out.

[Dean Withers]

Don't worry, I got it preloaded.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay, good.

[Dean Withers]

So you have done that. I'll tell you the funniest is that I'll go backstage before a show.

[Mar / Liz]

Yes.

[Dean Withers]

And everyone's getting dressed and ready and everything else. And, you know, no men are anywhere. And I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant, and therefore I'm inspecting it. You know, I'm inspecting.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I want to make sure they're like, every dog is good of you there.

[Dean Withers]

Is everyone okay? You know, they stand in there with no clothes. Is everybody okay? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that. Why don't we start there? Mike's yours.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay, well, he said that he probably sees them. It doesn't say they're naked there. So I. They might have. No, it doesn't.

[Dean Withers]

He said that they have no clothes on. When you have no clothes on.

[Shiva Bagheri]

You know Who. Who said that they didn't have clothes on?

[Dean Withers]

Donald Trump.

[Shiva Bagheri]

He didn't say that in the clip.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, I'll show you.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay, again. I want to hear it again.

[Dean Withers]

Is everyone okay? Is everybody okay? There you go.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Oh, well, it's a cl. Like, he didn't actually say clothes, but

[Dean Withers]

he said, I think it's important for us to be intelligent, rational people. So you say no clothes, and Howard Stern says, so you're like a doctor.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I definitely don't agree with you. Why did Howard Stern say you're like a doctor?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Because doctors get to see women.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay, I don't agree with that. But men are men, and men have testosterone, and men love beautiful women, and trust me, I would prefer a man that actually looks at women and is sexually attracted to women.

[Dean Withers]

Dude.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Than someone that is not. And I actually like looking at women, too. And I'm not even a lesbian, but I think women's bodies are beautiful.

[Liz / Kate]

It's like.

[Dean Withers]

Ma', am, I'm sorry. No, no.

[Shiva Bagheri]

It's archery. This is disgust. No.

[Dean Withers]

And you just told me that you would prefer a man who, quote unquote, likes the female body and is willing to barge into the private women's only dress on.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I said before that.

[Dean Withers]

You're saying, I think that real men don't believe that are sexual predators.

[Shiva Bagheri]

So you just lied about me right now because I said I don't believe what he did was right.

[Dean Withers]

But I would prefer a man who likes to look at the naked bodies of women that.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Oh, I've been over. Someone that is attracted to other men.

[MAGA Supporter]

Yes.

[Dean Withers]

Why?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Absolutely. Because it's not natural.

[Dean Withers]

It's not natural to be dark.

[Shiva Bagheri]

It's natural to be attracted to the opposite system.

[Dean Withers]

Define natural.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Natural is what God made. Adam and Eve.

[Dean Withers]

So God didn't make gay people?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Well, actually, I thought that God was a creator of all. No, no, that's sin. And sin came from the devil.

[Dean Withers]

No, no. Sin is a conscious decision. Being gay is not a conscious decision.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Well, actually, being gay is a conscious decision. Could you choose to be an action? It's an action.

[Dean Withers]

Could you choose to be gay?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dean Withers]

I actually could have chose to be

[Shiva Bagheri]

gay when I was younger.

[Dean Withers]

Could you choose to be attracted to your mom?

[Shiva Bagheri]

A lot of women, actually.

[Dean Withers]

Could you choose to be attracted to your mom? If attractions are a choice, could you choose to be attracted to your mom?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Can you choose to be a pedophile?

[Dean Withers]

No, I couldn't choose to be a pedophile. Could you choose to be attracted to your mom?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Oh, so there you go. He thinks, no, it's an action, honey. And you can choose to sin, or you can choose not to sin. I. I try to keep the devil away from me. Can I just get a clear answer? No, this is a clear answer. But, see, you don't come from a biblical standpoint.

[Dean Withers]

What are the first four books?

[Shiva Bagheri]

I come from a biblical standpoint that there's two sexes. There's no 50 different genders. That came from a pedophile named John Money who lied about a study to push reassignment surgery on thousands of people through his lie that butchered this poor boy and put him through hell. Reimer twins. Go look it up on Oprah.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, I'm gonna ask the question again.

[Shiva Bagheri]

You don't live in reality. I live in reality where I know that a tree's a tree, a woman is a woman, a man's a man. And if you are choosing, a moron's a moron. And if you're choosing. Oh, see, that's what they do when they can't win an argument. They go for calling.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, pause, pause. Everybody pause. Dean, gotta ask that you don't do personal attacks. That's a warning.

[Dean Withers]

Okay. All right. So first and foremost, the question once again was, could you choose to be attracted to your mother? The reason why I ask why I'm asking you this question is because you had suggested that all attractions are a choice.

[Shiva Bagheri]

It is a choice.

[Dean Withers]

So please, with just a concise yes or no, could you choose to literally be sexually aroused by your mother? So there's two possible answers to this question. The first possible answer is, yes, Dean, I could choose to be attracted to my own mother. And the second possible answer would be no, Dean, I could not choose sexually aroused by my own mother.

[Shiva Bagheri]

You're trying to do a hook on you.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Do you have a yes or no for that?

[Shiva Bagheri]

No, because this is a hook because I will never be attracted to my mother because it's a choice. But I would never do that because I'm a Christian.

[Dean Withers]

So could you choose.

[Shiva Bagheri]

That's it. I'm not gonna get say that on camera. That's weird. And I'm not gonna be in the hook of this young man that's 21 year old telling a 52 year old to say something disgusting like that.

[Dean Withers]

So you admit that it's disgusting to think that you could choose to be attracted to your mother.

[Host (John Regalato)]

We gotta stop there. That you've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. If you wanna be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Howdy.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Hi, Dean, how are you?

[Dean Withers]

I'm doing phenomenal.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I'm trying to cereal.

[Dean Withers]

Zuriel, it's a pleasure to meet you.

[Mar / Liz]

Nice to meet you.

[Dean Withers]

We're gonna go back to the prompts. I think that Donald Trump is a misogynistic sexual predator. The reasons why I think this are some of them that I shared with the last guest. It's because I think that Donald Trump is a. He had a civil court determined that he, a woman by the name of Eugene Carroll. We listened to that clip of Donald Trump bragging about engaging in sexual violence. Listen, I take a sexual predator to be somebody that is engaged in sexual violence. Donald Trump bragged about that when he said he'd barge into the dressing rooms of the women at Miss Teen USA and Miss usa. If Donald Trump's admission of guilt in that clip that I played to the Last lady is true, and this is indeed something that Donald Trump has done, then by definition, Donald Trump would be a sexual predator. And thereby, by definition, I'd be right.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Can we both agree that people in power of elite elitists, people up there in politics, all have their own, maybe their own immoral traits to how. Why they're running for candidacy? Like we've heard about Epstein files, you've got all these different people that, you know, maybe they're not really here to

[Annette Davis Jackson]

make a change for us.

[Mar / Liz]

Can we agree with that?

[Dean Withers]

Yes.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I could care less about what Donald Trump says on the media because as long as he does his very best to be a good president and do

[Annette Davis Jackson]

the best for this economy.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I don't vote for a president based off. Oh, their character.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I know.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I vote for them based off what

[Shiva Bagheri]

they can get done.

[Dean Withers]

Honestly, I would like to just take a moment. Let's look at what you said. Are you saying. Dean, it's true Donald Trump is a misogynistic sexual predator, but I could care less because of his policies.

[Shiva Bagheri]

What I'm saying is.

[Dean Withers]

Can I just get a straight answer?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Can't deny that maybe he has bad

[Annette Davis Jackson]

traits of his character.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I'm not going to agree that, like,

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I don't know everything about Trump like you do.

[Dean Withers]

Okay?

[Shiva Bagheri]

But what I care about is his economy.

[Dean Withers]

I don't care about what he has to say. Let's start from the top of this debate. You sit down. I tell you Donald Trump is a sexual predator. I tell you he's a sexual predator because he raped a woman and boasted about sexually exploiting beauty pageant contestants. The reason why I respond. You respond. You respond. So let's just. Let's just test your logic. What do you say, Dean, Even if it was true, Donald Trump was a sexual predator because you don't know about the evidence for it, which is something you should look into on your own time. I would still support him as president and could care less. Is that your position?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I would still support him as president

[Shiva Bagheri]

because he does what's best for the economy and for the American dream.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Yeah, I think we gotta stop every person you've been voted out. We gotta pause there.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Sounds good.

[Dean Withers]

Thank you. I would still support Donald Trump as president if he was a sexual predator. If he was a. If he was a child, they'd still support him.

[Host (John Regalato)]

If you wanna be the next debater, please get to the Chair in three. Three, two, one.

[Mar / Liz]

Hi.

[Dean Withers]

Hi.

[Liz / Kate]

I'm Liz.

[Dean Withers]

Nice to meet you, Liz.

[Liz / Kate]

Nice to meet you.

[Dean Withers]

Listen, I think that you've heard my arguments. You happen to be sitting in a position where you could hear my voice. Mike, is yours.

[Liz / Kate]

Okay, so my question is, because you mentioned Donald Trump going into the women's locker rooms, are all trans people sexual predators?

[Dean Withers]

So I would not say that trans women are sexual predators for using the women's restroom. I think that the definition of sexual violence would be any sexual act that is done without consent. And I don't think that this would be true of trans women who use a women's restroom. And I have an argument for why I think that trans women should be able to use a woman's restroom. But let's try to take advantage of our time. Instead of me giving you my argument, let's just hopefully stay on topic with the claim that Donald Trump is a sexual predator because he's a woman. He's boasted about sexually exploiting women by barging into their dressing rooms and looking at their naked bodies without consent, then telling Howard Stern how much he loved it and how incredible they looked. He's mentioned the Epstein files over a million times.

[Liz / Kate]

The women, the young women in sports who do not want biological men in their dressing rooms. Isn't that. Doesn't that go against them? What about their safety?

[Dean Withers]

I would love to have a conversation with you about trans people in dressing rooms or, sorry, more so locker rooms. And I understand where you're coming from if you say, well, I don't want a trans woman in my dressing room because I would see their naked body and their genitals. The reason why. I get it, the reason why I understand where you're coming from is because even when I go into my gym's locker room and I see other dudes with their dicks out, I'm like, hey, bro, I don't really want them to see me.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I don't want them to see me.

[Dean Withers]

So I actually, I advocate. I advocate. One moment. I advocate for a unisex uni stall. One person at one time changing rooms, in locker rooms and gyms and sports across the country. That's my position. Let's talk about the claim.

[Liz / Kate]

Donald Trump is a sexual predator part of the claim.

[Dean Withers]

Well, you're not. First of all, do you accept that Donald Trump is a sexual predator?

[Liz / Kate]

I can accuse you of being a sexual predator.

[Dean Withers]

And if I admitted to doing it, then it would be true. Donald Trump admitted to barging into those dressing rooms, and a court found him guilty of raping E. Jean Carroll.

[Liz / Kate]

No, he didn't. No, they didn't. That's a lie.

[Dean Withers]

They certainly did. Yes, they did. Listen, do you accept that the definition of rape would include the penetration of a woman's vagina with any part of a man's body, including his fingers, without consent?

[Liz / Kate]

Yeah.

[Dean Withers]

So specifically, the action that the jury found Donald Trump guilty for is forcefully penetrating E. Jean Carroll.

[Liz / Kate]

I think what's going on right now in the world with men and women is that women are accusing a lot of men of rape. And until I see actual proof, because a jury can disagree with anything, that's something else. Okay. Until there is actual proof and evidence, and if you can show me the proof that Donald Trump her, then fine.

[Dean Withers]

Thank you so much for the great question. What's all the evidence? So the first form of evidence that we would have would be E. Jean Carroll's testimony, which has maintained consistency for the last 30 years, as corroborated by four of her friends that testified under penalty of perjury. The second form of evidence.

[Liz / Kate]

And no one's lied under penalty of perjury.

[Dean Withers]

Well, can you please, like, examine the evidence in which I provide as soon as I'm done providing it? We have therapist notes from the 90s indicating she was by Trump. We the testimony of a psychotherapist that said when Eugene Carroll was testifying to the fact she was by Donald Trump, she was exhibiting signs consistent with true trauma that we'd expect to be onset by a true victim of. Then we have Donald Trump's lies and inconsistencies. He lied. He said that he never met her as a part of his testimony for his defense. And then Eugene Garrell responded by submitting a photo of them together to court.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Do you agree with that?

[Dean Withers]

I'm not done with the evidence. I'm not done with the evidence. We have another line, inconsistency on Donald Trump's behalf. He also said that he never raped her because she wasn't his type. But then he confused a picture of Eugene Carroll to be his ex wife, Marla Maples, under deposition. So clearly she was his type. Then we also have Eugene Carroll's dress. Eugene Carroll submitted a dress to the court claiming it was the dress that she was by Donald Trump. Court confirmed it had male DNA on it. And then when the court asked Donald Trump to provide a DNA sample to test against the DNA in the dress, he said, no, no, no, no, no. Doesn't sound like something an innocent man would do. And then the last and final piece of evidence we have would be his character priors. Listen, we all know that a one time felon is around 73% more likely to engage in another felony compared to somebody that's never committed a crime in their life. The same thing rings true about being a sexual predator. So because Donald Trump has character priors with engaging in sexual predation, like the dressing room clip proudly boasting about sexually exploiting naked women and girls, or like the Access Hollywood tape where he literally said that he would just grab women by their vaginas without asking first. And that's precisely what the jury found him guilty of doing or everything to do with the Epstein files. That in consideration with the direct evidence submitted by Eugene. Carolyn, if you want to mention Donald Trump.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, we got to stop there. We got to stop there. The flags are up. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah.

[Host (John Regalato)]

If you want to be the next debater, please get to the chair in 3, 2, 1.

[Gina]

Hi.

[Dean Withers]

Hi.

[Gina]

Nice to meet you. I'm Gina.

[Dean Withers]

Nice to meet you too, Gina.

[Gina]

Thank you. First of all, if Trump was truly a predator, he would have never reported Epstein to the feds.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, he didn't.

[Gina]

In the 90s, he did.

[Dean Withers]

Do you mean 2006?

[Gina]

Yeah, sorry, 2006.

[Dean Withers]

That's okay.

[Gina]

Also, was he ever on the island?

[Dean Withers]

Well, I don't think that there's any evidence to demonstrate he was on the island.

[Gina]

He was never on the island.

[Dean Withers]

Cause I don't think he needed to go to the island to get it off. Listen, about the 2006 quote, unquote report to the feds about Epstein. He didn't report him to the feds. Epstein got arrested. And then Donald Trump turned around, called the local sheriff and said, oh, thank God you got him. We've known about what Epstein's been doing all along, which A, indicates that Donald Trump knew what Epstein was doing with Maxwell and didn't report to him to the cops prior to Epstein's original arrest. And B, indicates that Donald Trump has been lying to us about the nature of his relationship with Epstein for the last 10 years. We've all heard Donald Trump say that he never knew what Epstein was doing, was never involved, and was completely oblivious. But according to that report to the sheriff, of course he knew.

[Gina]

Okay, so first of all, if he did do something, believe me, they would have found it. They had to make the Russian dossier up. They had to make things up to get Trump. Trump doesn't have to be a sexual predator. Any woman would love to be with Trump. Okay. Any woman.

[Dean Withers]

Do you have a husband?

[Host (John Regalato)]

No.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, wait, let's actually test that. Could I have. All the women with husbands or boyfriends in the room raised their hands. So her claim is that any woman would love to be with Trump. Would you guys cheat on your husbands and boyfriends with Trump?

[Gina]

Well, we didn't say if they were married. Not if we were married.

[Dean Withers]

I mean, any.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Instead of anybody who's in a relationship, is there anybody who would want to be with Trump?

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, let's do it the other way around.

[Gina]

It doesn't have to be a sexual predator.

[Dean Withers]

Who. Okay, all right, listen. Put your hand up. If you would have sex with Donald Trump.

[Gina]

If I was married to Donald Trump, yes. Yes. And I'd love to be.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

That's crazy.

[Gina]

Do you prefer Clinton? Why don't we talk about sexual predators? As far as Bill Clinton, why?

[Dean Withers]

It's not okay.

[Gina]

Because he's a. Because he's a predator.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, Trump doesn't have sexual predator.

[Gina]

Trump did. Report him to the feds.

[Dean Withers]

I thought I clarified. That's not what happened.

[Gina]

You're wrong.

[Dean Withers]

I'm wrong? Show me that.

[Gina]

Give me evidence. First of all, Virginia Guthrie worked at Mar A Lago in the early 2000s, and he prompted her to come and work for him as a massage therapist. Trump was pissed and he reported Epstein.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, I would recommend looking at the fact check that will likely be on the video screen that says, erm, actually he placed this phone call after Epstein was arrested to thank the cop and to tip them off about Jalaine Maxwell. Because that's what the fact check is gonna say.

[Gina]

What's the difference?

[Dean Withers]

Well, the difference is in one scenario, he's reporting the crime to the cop to then get Epstein arrested. In the secondary scenario, he's thanking the cop after Epstein's arrest and indicating that he knew about what he was doing.

[Gina]

Indictments.

[Dean Withers]

I think that in many scenarios, what we'll see from quote unquote, co conspirators of criminals is, well, once their friend gets arrested for the same crime that they committed, we'll turn around and be all lovey dovey to the police to try to like, you know, indicate and promote the idea that they weren't involved. And the only reason why I bring this up isn't to say I know with certainty that this is exactly what Trump did, but is rather to give plausible doubt to your argument that because he did this, we know he's not a sexual predator, even though he admitted to it on Howard Stern's radio show. And even though a court Found him guilty of rape.

[Gina]

A court never found him guilty of. First of all, if he was guilty of, he'd be in chains right now.

[Dean Withers]

That's not how civil courts work.

[Gina]

They had to make. Yeah, it is.

[Dean Withers]

Civil courts don't send people to jail. They hold people financially liable. That's the nature of our criminal justice system.

[Gina]

But he would have been in jail.

[Dean Withers]

You're not familiar with statute of limitations, then? I'm familiar with what's the statute of limitations.

[Gina]

You can only accuse somebody within a matter of time, but right now, for 30 years.

[Dean Withers]

So if E. Jean Carroll, okay, came out after the statute of limitations had

[Annette Davis Jackson]

passed out of her mind for sexual

[Dean Withers]

abuse in the state of New York against Donald Trump, do you agree that even if she had a video of it happening to her, he wouldn't be in jail because of the statute of limitations?

[Gina]

That's not true. There is no statute of limitations when it comes to.

[Dean Withers]

So by the law, okay, the crime that Donald Trump committed, per the New York State legal definition of and of sexual abuse in 2019, he never committed that crime was specifically sexual abuse. Okay? Because legally speaking, in New York, they only defined as penile penetration of the vagina. And she testified that he raped her with his fingers instead of his penis. So because of that, that's a lie. There would be legally categorized as sexual abuse. And that's the crime that had a crime.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

She's out of her mind.

[Gina]

She's insane. And they threw the case out just recently.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, we gotta pause for a moment.

[Host (John Regalato)]

We gotta pause there. You've been voted out. I just wanna get a real quick raise of hands. This is not to shame anybody. I was just genuinely curious. Raise your flag really clearly. So we could get a poll if at Donald Trump's, like, you know, when he was in his 40s, if you think he was an attractive man. I just wanna get a raise of flag.

[Dean Withers]

This is so concerning.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Keep your flag up if you think he is currently still hot. Okay, I appreciate it. All right, if you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

All right, Laurie, Mike and the floor are yours. What are your thoughts about Trump barging into the dressing rooms and then magic intense?

[Laurie]

You know, you may not imagine this, but when I was your age, I was a model. And I can tell you for a fact, every fashion show, every modeling call, there are men in the dressing room. There are makeup artists, there are designers. It's not uncommon. And you're making it as if it's this big, huge Deal. Donald Trump at the time was the head of the Miss Universe and Miss USA Pageant. It wouldn't be surprising if I was in there changing for him to walk in. And you guys. Because. Oh, let's look at the camera. He's got a face for that one, too. Let's go to Eugene Carroll since she already went over this for.

[Dean Withers]

Can I respond to that?

[Laurie]

Sure, but we're down to one minute.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

You've already talked about this.

[Dean Withers]

Trump said that there were no men anywhere.

[Laurie]

Well, he. I don't care what he said. I'm saying as a woman that's been backstage at many, many fashions. Well. And I'm sure that there were other men forever or just that instant. I.

[Shiva Bagheri]

He said.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I'm not buying it.

[Laurie]

Okay, we got 50 seconds.

[MAGA Supporter]

I'm going.

[Laurie]

Eugene Carroll. Eugene Carroll. Number one, the statute of limitations had run out. Number two, for a very long time, she never reported it to anyone until Reid Hoffman paid her to freaking go after this lawsuit, why she is now being charged with perjury. Not only that, as a celebrity walking into Bergdorf Gordmans, you don't think that anybody would have a picture of him? And no offense, I don't trust a woman that named her cat vagina and freaking said was Sexy and charged 21 other men with that crime.

[Dean Withers]

Lori, you're gonna get another fact check.

[Laurie]

No. Well, you go ahead and fact check Larry King. Yeah, I will break with sexy.

[Dean Withers]

You're wrong about Larry King, too.

[Laurie]

Oh, no, I'm not.

[Dean Withers]

Your mind's a mess, okay?

[Laurie]

Your mind's a mess.

[Dean Withers]

You know, Laurie, there's something quite barbaric about maga, about this alt right movement that's hinged on this paraxis of propaganda and useless and futile lies. And then when anybody tries to check these lies, well, then all of a sudden, the provocateurs of this movement get mad, start screaming, start yelling, start saying that they kicked our asses, and then they don't let us speak. Listen, you made a couple false claims. You claimed that Eugene Carroll had said that rape is sexy. And on an Anderson Cooper interview, that's not what she said. If you watch the interview with Anderson Cooper, you will hear her say verbatim that what happened to her was not sexual, was not sexy, quote, unquote. It just hurt. And then Anderson Cooper responded to E. Jean Carroll by saying, well, I think that most people think of R. P.E. like this hurtful, violent thing. And then she responded by saying, well, actually, I think most people think of as sexy. And the reason why she said that is because we form our own versions of reality predicated on our own experiences. When you have the experience of sexual violence, separate. When you have the experience of sexual violence. When you go through the experience of sexual violence.

[Laurie]

I've been through sexual violence. Through.

[Dean Withers]

Yes, when you go through the experience of sexual violence, you're more likely to be more hypercritical and aware of crazy people in the world around us that downplay it, legitimize it, or fantasize about it. So maybe it was descriptively incorrect. It wasn't true when she said most people think of as sexy. But regardless of that, that's not her saying that she thinks of as sexy. So stop misinterpreting the genuine claims made by a victim of. Of predicated off of the trauma that they went through. Quite frankly, Lori, I think that is disgusting.

[Laurie]

Well, I think it's disgusting because I was a victim of actual rape and abuse. And if you want to compare what happened in the Epstein files, let me just tell you. I was one of those little girls.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, I'm sorry to hear that, Laura.

[Laurie]

I was one of those little girls, but the guy was Shu Hefner. So for you to sit here and sit there and say it's disgusting. I'm sorry. I don't agree with the woman as a woman who was abused. I don't agree with the attacks falsely on Donald Trump because of the crap that your side always has to push because you got such bad tds. It's insane. That woman is a nut job. I knew somebody that worked with her at Simon Schuster, said that she was so inappropriate. She also accused 21 other men of the same fricking crime.

[Dean Withers]

Name five of them. I don't know their names because they don't exist.

[Host (John Regalato)]

We're out of time. We have to pause there. Great job, everybody.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

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[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

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[Dean Withers]

My next surrounded claim is abortion should be legal.

[Host (John Regalato)]

If you want to debate this claim, please get to the center in 3, 2, 1.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Hello again.

[Dean Withers]

Welcome back. Mike's yours. I'll let you take it away.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay, well, I have a question for you. Do you believe in equality?

[Dean Withers]

Well, I mean, I think that's a very vague question, but generally, of course.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay, so if you do, then all humans are equal, correct?

[Dean Withers]

No, I don't think that all humans are equal and I don't think you do either.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Oh, I absolutely think that all humans have a right to life, liberty and a pursuit of happiness.

[Dean Withers]

Really?

[Shiva Bagheri]

It's part of our Bill of Rights. Okay, and if you actually love our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, then you would believe what I believe.

[Dean Withers]

Well, I mean, it says people, but small distinction there. I want to ask you a question. Is it murder for a doctor to pull the plug on a brain dead patient in the hospital?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Some people actually write what they want done. You know, they say, hey, if I become brain dead, then pull the plug.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, but for instance, if they don't do that, okay, like for instance, I haven't done that. If when I leave the set today, I get into a nasty car accident, I get T boned by a drunk driver, I go brain dead, okay, would it be murder for like my family to tell a doctor at the hospital, well, because he's brain dead, let's just go ahead and pull the plug. Would that be murder?

[Shiva Bagheri]

I honestly, you're talking to someone that is very skeptical of doctors, okay? And even they talk about brain dead people that weren't actually brain dead.

[Dean Withers]

True.

[Shiva Bagheri]

So that's why I always leave up everything to God. So when I die is when I

[Dean Withers]

die, I wanna clarify.

[Shiva Bagheri]

So I actually don't wanna be killed. But now if you're on all these machines to keep you alive, if it's months and months and you're not getting better, then you're using machines to keep you alive.

[Dean Withers]

But they're still alive. And you still don't think it's murder to kill them. So you actually don't think that all humans have this intrinsic right to life.

[Shiva Bagheri]

And by the way, I never said. No, you don't speak for me again. I just told you I don't believe in doctors. So I don't. Like, I don't go to the hospital.

[Dean Withers]

I have a very important.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I have not gone to the hospital in a long time.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, I hope that you. Because I want to add on a

[Shiva Bagheri]

point of clarification, because it's my time. It's my time now. Question for you.

[Dean Withers]

All right.

[Shiva Bagheri]

So when do you think life begins?

[Dean Withers]

I think that life begins at the moment of conception.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Good. I'm glad you believe that you're Christian

[Dean Withers]

and you base your morality on.

[Shiva Bagheri]

And that's called science. Christianity, it seems like.

[Dean Withers]

Can I ask you a question? Can I ask.

[Shiva Bagheri]

We're anti science. They're anti science because they don't believe man and woman. They believe genders.

[Dean Withers]

I want to ask you a question about abortion.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay.

[Dean Withers]

You made the claim that all humans are equal. Every single human has the identical right to life. That is a claim that fundamentally everybody rejects in one way.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Actually, I didn't say that. So. So see, you're putting more into the sentence that I did not add.

[Dean Withers]

Your opening was about equality for everyone,

[Shiva Bagheri]

liberty and a pursuit of happiness, which

[Dean Withers]

would be if you're a murderer.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I do believe in capital punishment, but because of your actions. Okay, so I. That's where I don't believe in equality, is like, can we protect a baby and a murderer the same? No, because a baby's innocent. A civil society protects the most innocent and vulnerable. They don't go and murder them. That is a satanic society. And I reject a satanic society.

[Host (John Regalato)]

I've got to stop there. You've been voted out. Okay, if you want to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Hi, Tish.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Hi, nice to meet you.

[Dean Withers]

Nice to meet you as well. Why should abortion be illegal?

[Laurie]

Well, let me tell you ask you something.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Abortion is legal here.

[Laurie]

What procedure do you prefer?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

The suction, the dye and the. What is it?

[Dean Withers]

I don't know. The most brutalistic, gross one where we chop up all their limbs and throw them in the trash. Listen.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Really? That's gross. That is so gross.

[Dean Withers]

I know. I'm ready to betting you.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Listen, I have four children. A set of twins.

[Laurie]

I would never ever do that to my children.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Would you have your girlfriend do that to your child?

[Dean Withers]

Well, ultimately, I think it's a choice. Do you have a girlfriend? I do. Ultimately, I think that it's a choice of the woman. So if you want to tell me that you never get an abortion.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No.

[Dean Withers]

All the power to you. I love that for you because that's your choice and I think that's great. But listen, I don't think that abortion is murder because I don't think that there's any trait that we could identify to be true of a fetus in which we fundamentally would value enough to grant the right to life. The last person on the mic said, well, fundamentally, all humans have the same right to life. And that's something that we hear from a lot of pro lifers. As I was attempting to communicate to her, Everybody rejects that view in one way or another. So I want to hear your argument insofar as why it's morally wrong for a woman to get an abortion outside of its gross. Because, okay, grotesqueness doesn't arbitrate morality. Like taking a shit's pretty gross. Shit smells like shit, right? Okay, but we're not gonna say it's morally wrong to take a shit even though it's gross. So what's the argument? That abortion is wrong?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Let me just ask you this. Everyone's really, really focused on, you know, it should be the right for every woman. Why don't you think about it the

[Laurie]

other way and think about why don't

[Annette Davis Jackson]

you prevent all these women, women who don't want to have babies. Why aren't you guys helping them prevent pregnancies?

[Dean Withers]

We do, and I agree we should.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Yes, we should listen.

[Dean Withers]

And we need access to comprehensive sex ed in schools. We need free and fair access to contra in schools. Yeah.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

At what age?

[Dean Withers]

At an age appropriate level, I would say starting in late middle school, because, I mean, I was in middle school, you were in middle school. We were all in middle school. The second thing that I think is also important here would be free and fair access to contraceptives. And we should also try to find ways to limit financial instability in young women and young men, because the leading cause of women accessing abortion is financial instability. But you still haven't answered the question. And you've been up here for a while. I want to hear why you think that abortion is wrong. I think that you're struggling with an

[Annette Davis Jackson]

argument because it is murder.

[Dean Withers]

And the definition of murder would be the unjust termination of a human life. Explain why you think it's unjust.

[Laurie]

First of all, a woman who has a pregnancy, a baby in there, they

[Annette Davis Jackson]

have the right to life too.

[Dean Withers]

What grants the fetus the right to life?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

What grants it? Just that it's been conceived or the

[Dean Withers]

fact that it's a human.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

It is a human.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, so brain dead patients have the right to life too.

[Laurie]

So what?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Brain dead?

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, they're human.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

You know what? I've heard of brain Dead humans coming

[Dean Withers]

out of comas, then they're not brain dead. The definition of brain death is irreversible cessation of all cognitive function. Do humans who are biologically alive because of machines with irreversible cessation of all cognitive function have the right to life?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I haven't really researched that. So if there was no hope, possibly they should. I mean, that's not. And that's not my decision to make. That's a family member's life.

[Dean Withers]

So you think it should be up to the choice of the family to kill a human being?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

You know what, so you don't think they're brain dead?

[Laurie]

If they're brain dead, are they really alive?

[Dean Withers]

Yes, biologically they are.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

You know what, that's a determination that I would have to take with a medical doctor.

[Dean Withers]

Say the same thing about women for abortion.

[Laurie]

No, I don't believe that a woman has that even right.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

That a woman should be able to get abortion here in California.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

No, I don't.

[Host (John Regalato)]

We have to pause there. You've been voted out.

[Dean Withers]

Thanks for your time. Tish.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, if you want to be the next debater, please get to the center chair in three, two, one.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Hi, Dean, I'm Enya.

[Dean Withers]

Nice to meet you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Nice to meet you. So I couldn't hear a lot of what you were kind of saying a while ago, but what were you saying was brain dead people about if they should be unplugged?

[Dean Withers]

Well, I brought up a brain dead patient as a counter example to the claim that while the reason why it's memorial, the reason why it's murder to kill a fetus is because the fetus is a member of the human species.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yes.

[Dean Withers]

So brain dead patients on a biological

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

level and they should not be unplugged. And I think actually any argument that anyone makes for a brain dead patient to be unplugged is actually coming from the doctors who want to harvest organs and to promote the organ donation industry culture. And I think that any kind of promotion that even manipulates families into unplugging their brain dead relatives is also immoral.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, I think we agree with. We agree on that. And so organ harvesting aside, if a family wants to unplug a brain dead family member because it's the end of

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

the road, that is immoral.

[Dean Withers]

That would be murder.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yeah, but I think the doctor. It would be murder from the doctor in the same way that.

[Dean Withers]

So you truly think it's murder to kill any member of the human species. What about a zygote?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

That is also Murder.

[Dean Withers]

So if I kill a unicellular organism, I'm murdered. Do you think that all murderers should go to jail?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Human zygotes. It's about humans.

[Dean Withers]

So do you think that all murderers should go to jail?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

All murderers should be put into trial and tried and.

[Dean Withers]

But if they're truly murderers, like that's an uncontestable thing.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yeah, they should be put to death.

[Dean Withers]

They should be put to death.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I do believe in the death penalty.

[Dean Withers]

Wow. Okay, so here's the thing. Do you know what an IUD is?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yeah.

[Dean Withers]

So an iud, an intrauterine device. In some circumstances, I already know where you're gonna go. Well, allow for conception to occur, but then it will implant. Well, then it will prevent the implantation of the now conceived the iud.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Can you please allow me to finish implantation? If it leads to death, then it's not the. Then it didn't fulfill its purpose. It went beyond that.

[Dean Withers]

That's a secondary purpose. So the main purpose of an would be to prevent conception, but when that fails, the secondary purpose is to then prevent its implantation. So if a woman knows that sometimes IUDs will allow for conception to occur, then they kill that conceived zygote and they still yet choose to be sexually active, then inevitably they conceive a zygote and it dies. In the same way.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I think that when people are implanted, it is not for anything beyond just the prevention. It is not done for the murder of any kind of implanted gung goats.

[Dean Withers]

Well, because it's a secondary purpose and function of the iud. If a woman knows that she. And then she's agreeing to the culpability of possibly having her actions yield the death of another person. Okay, and under your view, and hopefully mine, that would be murder, given that the person that she's killing through her actions by secondary.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

That was not the primary purpose of the iud.

[Dean Withers]

Well, if I. If I buy a gun with a primary purpose of going hunting, but then one day I get really mad and I use it to kill my neighbor. Okay. I'm still a murderer if I buy out my car for the primary purpose.

[Liz / Kate]

Your primary.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Your primary purpose is hunting.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Your.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Your secondary purpose by that a better example is a car was to shoot that.

[Dean Withers]

If I buy a car to get from point A to point B, but then one day I get drunk and I use it to like, wipe out a family of five. Am I a murderer?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yes.

[Dean Withers]

Even though that wasn't the primary function of the car?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yes.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, so then even though Killing a zygote, primary function of an iud, you used it. When it does kill a zygote, under your view, it's murder.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

But even though the primary purpose of the car is for driving, you used it for any for something beyond that. It's second secondary purpose was not to be driven drunk and kill.

[Dean Withers]

Well, the secondary purpose of an I was supposed to kill a zygote. But listen, I think that ultimately the primary or secondary purpose argument is irrelevant because what we should be evaluating, I agree, is did a valuable life die and is a person culpable for the termination of that valuable life? And if a valuable life died and a person is culpable for the termination

[Annette Davis Jackson]

of that, because it was used only

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

for its primary purpose of preventing the pregnancy in the first place.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, so I just want to clarify. You don't think in all scenarios when an individual terminates a valuable life unjustifiably so, and they are culpable for said termination, that they're a murderer? Well, then you're just completely redefining what murder even is by introducing the abstract nuance of this quote unquote, primary or secondary purpose.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

You're the one who brought that up.

[Dean Withers]

At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is in many scenarios women will get an IUD knowing that in many cases the IUD will lead to the death of a conceived psych and they will know it will lead to that in many scenarios, then they will still choose to be sexually active and then the IUD will kill. Under your view, that would mean that that woman is culpable for murder. Therefore, under your view that women should be executed, you kind of said it like that.

[Host (John Regalato)]

We have to pause there. You've been voted out. Okay, if you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Howdy.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Hi, Shannon.

[Dean Withers]

Shannon Dean. Pleasure to meet you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So I want to know why you think that killing babies should be legal.

[Dean Withers]

Of course, because I'm a brutalistic Satanist and I love the DNC and I'm the leader of Antifa. Listen, the reason why I think abortion should be legal is because I don't think that abortion is morally wrong. I think it's a permissible action. And because I think it's a permissible action, I therefore don't see any good reason to infringe on a woman's bodily autonomy in the legal prevention of her access to abortion. Therefore, it's human rights violation.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So you don't understand it. It's like killing you don't, don't think it's killing a human being?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

No, I do.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

And you're okay with that?

[Dean Withers]

Yes.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay.

[Dean Withers]

Because I don't.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

You don't think that we should focus more on preventable measures? Because you can, you don't have to have an abortion.

[Dean Withers]

Oh, well, I also disagree there. I do think that we should focus on preventable measures. In my optimal society, there's zero abortions. Okay? Not because we're forcing women to not get them, but rather because the conditions in which lead women to get them don't exist. Such as poverty, financial instability, a lack of sexual education, the failure of contraceptives. In my ideal society, those things wouldn't exist.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Do you know that if a woman gets pregnant, she's not financially able to keep the baby and she doesn't want the baby? She could at least take plan B. Yeah.

[Dean Withers]

And I think that that would be a good fact of sexual education to share with the world. It's like $20 plan B exists? Well, I mean, actually Plan B is $55. There's off brand versions that are 20. And I think that that is a good piece of recommendation. But ultimately, if they don't take a plan B or whatever like happens after the pregnancy, they should be able to access abortion. Hey, I want to ask you this question. Do you think that victims of should be able to access abortion?

[Laurie]

No.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Because they could also take a morning after pill if they get.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

If I were to get r ped,

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I would go take a morning after pill the very next day.

[Dean Withers]

Wow. So you think that a victim would have an obligation to maintain a pregnancy? Is that because that if they were to like cessate or stop the pregnancy, the fetus would die? Okay, of course it is. So I want to ask you a question. Do you know who Max Urbia? So Max irby is a 15, 14 year old guy and he's in dire need of a stem cell transplant. And this is a true story. You could look it up. And his stem cell type is so incredibly rare that his father set up a quote unquote fundraiser for his son, taking random DNA samples in from people across the globe. So far they've collected 40 million samples and there hasn't been one match. What this means is that there's probably only one match alive on the face of planet earth that could provide stem cells to Max Irby to save his life.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Life.

[Dean Withers]

So let's hypothetically assume that you are the one and only match for Max Irby's stem cell type and the government finds this out, then the government forces you to provide your stem cells to Max Irby without your consent for nine months, introducing many physical and mental complications. Do you think that'd be just.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

No, no.

[Dean Withers]

Because they shouldn't be able to force you to provide your bodily resources to another life. Even if not providing your bodily resources would mean that other life dies. That's my position on victims of.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Of.

[Dean Withers]

They shouldn't be forced to provide domicile in their uterus and access to their bodily resources to the fetus. Even if stopping the sustenance of those bodily resources to the fetus means the fetus dies. No difference than Max.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Herbie, this is a tough one for me because I have mixed feelings about it, obviously because that's a horrible situation to be in, but I do like I said earlier, morning after pill.

[Dean Withers]

Well, could you respond to the argument?

[Host (John Regalato)]

Again, we have to pause there. You've been voted out.

[Dean Withers]

Hey, listen, I appreciate you for the respectful dialogue.

[Liz / Kate]

By the way, I want to tell

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

you I respect you a lot. I saw when you cried for Charlie Perth. You actually have a soul.

[Dean Withers]

Have a good one.

[Host (John Regalato)]

If you want to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Hello, I'm Georgia.

[Dean Withers]

Georgia, pleasure to meet you. You said that you work for a pro life org?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yes, I do.

[Dean Withers]

Very, very interesting.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Let's talk about it.

[Dean Withers]

Do you guys focus on preventative means from pregnancy in the first place? Do you guys have policy initiatives to reduce financial instability or poverty?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So what abortion does is it incentivizes people to live in a promiscuous way that further increases the rates of pregnancies that are not in a stable situation like marriage. And so I'm actually against contraception.

[Dean Withers]

Being pro contraceptive would save the lives of more innocent babies under your view.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Because killing an innocent human being is always wrong. Abortion kills an innocent human being, therefore abortion is always wrong.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah. Reject people.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

And allowing abortion just reflects our overall decay as a self society when it comes to the way we view sexuality, marriage. And it just leads to a culture of death when you have abortion, it leads to things like maid in Canada. What abortion is, is we're allowing the government to have the authority to define when personhood begins because we're separating it from the moment of conception. And if it's not at the moment of conception, then the most powerful person gets to decide when it begins. And that's always subjective. And when more powerful people have that authority or allow themselves to have that authority to define when personhood begins, you have grave travesties like slavery. If it's a subjective line, then when does that begin? When does personhood begin? And when you say it doesn't begin at conception, it's actually what you're arguing is a very suspicious mystical idea of when it does. And that sounds more superstitious than Christianity.

[Dean Withers]

Well, thank you for your comments about your syllogism. I'd reject P1. Don't think it's always wrong to kill an innocent human being.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

To intentionally kill an innocent human being. You don't think it's always wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human being?

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, like I've said to the last five guests, I mean we do that to brain dead patients all the time.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Okay, so that's totally withhold care from them that sustains their life. That's different than intentionally going there and killing people.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, so then you're on board with the abortion pill withholding the progesterone supplied through the umbilical cord that would sustain the life of the fetus.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I'm completely against the abortion pill, but

[Dean Withers]

it's just withholding care that would sustain the fetus.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

It's different though in nature because what we're doing is what happens occurs in the uterus is solely for the service of the fetus. The uterus does not exist to serve the woman, they exist to serve the child. What abortion is, is the actual destruction of that child. I want to ask you question. It reflects the destruction of our idea of parental duty.

[Dean Withers]

I would ask you questions.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Parents have a duty to care for their children. What's your question?

[Dean Withers]

My question is let's just like envision a hypothetical of like a nine year old girl getting and impregnated and we know pregnancy is not going to kill her. Per your syllogism that you gave earlier, it seems to be the case that you'd argue it would be wrong for her to get an abortion. Is this true?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Abortion only continues to perpetuate violence, the cycle of violence. It only increases the trauma to that child. And what we would do, we would still try to minimize the trauma of pregnancy for a nine year old. But ultimately I am completely against abortion in all cases, period. And that's the, that's the consistent pro life stance.

[Dean Withers]

Wow. What about when it's like the life of the mother on the line?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Okay, so that's nonsense. What we have is exactly, we have C section. And so what if it's before viability? That simply does not happen. That's simply.

[Dean Withers]

Why would you be okay with it?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

There's no what Ifs. Listen, it's a good question, by the way.

[Dean Withers]

It does absolutely happen.

[Liz / Kate]

Okay.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Our medical technology is so sophisticated today.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Could you just answer the question? Like, would it be okay with that?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

There is a black and white the life of the mother. The technology we have today is where we can. We can try. We can operate on fetuses and the child can continue if a medical professional

[Dean Withers]

determines that a pregnant woman will die if she doesn't get an emergency C section or vulva.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Okay, then do the emergency C section. Dean, you just proved my point.

[Dean Withers]

No, I didn't. Yes, I did, because it's before viability.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Okay. When's viability? Viability is based on technology.

[Dean Withers]

I'm gonna go ahead.

[Host (John Regalato)]

It is.

[Dean Withers]

Viability is. I just want to ask my question.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

One day, viability might be.

[Dean Withers]

So the question that I'd like to. The question that I'd like to ask you is let's assume a woman is pregnant. It's before viability, per the technological innovations and standards in America because that's where we live.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

When does personhood begin?

[Dean Withers]

Dean, I'll happily ask your question.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

When should abortion be legal?

[Dean Withers]

So I think that personhood begins around 20 through 24 weeks with a thymocortical connection. But my question is, if there is a woman that's pregnant, it's before viability, per. Like the technological innovation in America. And a doctor tells her that she needs to get an emergency C section or abortion. It doesn't matter, because either way it's gonna kill the fetus. And the doctor says if she doesn't get this emergency C section or abortion, then she's gonna die. Would you be okay with her getting one? I just. Interested. I wanna see where your ideological underpinnings fall.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So I notice how that's one of your debate strategies. You corner us into these questions. I'll answer your question.

[Dean Withers]

Thank you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So what doctors do is they take an oath that says, do no harm doing an abortion. Not only does obvious harm to the child by killing the child, but it actually does a lot of physical trauma. Trauma to the mother.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah.

[Liz / Kate]

Less trauma.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

There's a lot of trauma to the uterus. And not only that, but many women end up being suicidal after abortion. But regardless of that.

[Dean Withers]

Can you answer the question?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I have this very backwards view of the technology that we have now. There simply are not cases where women need to get abortions.

[Dean Withers]

Notice how she's not answering the question

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

because it's not a scenario that actually exists. A lot of these doctors are committing medical malpractice and they're actually lying because they have an agenda.

[Dean Withers]

If it were to happen, would you be okay with that woman getting an abortion?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Absolutely not, because that doesn't happen.

[Dean Withers]

So if it did, you wouldn't be okay with her getting an abortion? That's insane.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, we gotta pause there. We gotta pause there. We're kind of at an impasse. We've also run out of time, so

[Dean Withers]

we're gonna move on My next surrounded

[Annette Davis Jackson]

claim Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with ebglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

dosing phase, about four in ten people

[Annette Davis Jackson]

taking empglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Dean Withers]

Empglis Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapy. Eglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebglis before starting Ebglis. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Ask your doctor about ebgliss and visit ebgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Dean Withers]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

But that's weird.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent

[Annette Davis Jackson]

to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Dean Withers]

See full [e-mail] Donald Trump is a terrible president.

[Host (John Regalato)]

All right, if you want to debate this claim, get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Hi.

[Dean Withers]

Hi. Welcome back. Yeah, I don't know. Let's see. Donald Trump is a terrible president because he slept his way to the top.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No, I actually think that.

[Dean Withers]

Remember that? That was brutal. Hey, listen, he didn't do that. Why do you support Trump?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I think that he has done. He's obviously done a lot of things. I can't say he's a perfect person, but I do think he has done things to benefit us.

[Dean Withers]

What is one macroeconomic indicator that's better off today than it was a year and a half ago under Biden?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Closing the borders?

[Dean Withers]

So that's not a macroeconomic indicator. Yeah, a macroeconomic indicator would be something like GDP growth, unemployment, inflation, jobs reports. And by definition, a macroeconomic indicator is just simply a gauge that we could use to determine the health of the economy overall. So, yes, gdp. GDP growth, inflation, like wages, sort of the economy.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

If I can, I can dive into

[Dean Withers]

that one indicator that's better off today than it was a year and a half ago.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

The amount of drug use and fentanyl in society has gone down miraculously because he has closed the border and illegal drugs are no longer allowed to come in.

[Dean Withers]

You understand the question I'm asking you?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Yeah, I do, and I'm answering it.

[Dean Withers]

So the amount of people that use drugs in society could, of course, influence macroeconomic variables. Like, if everybody was drugged up all the time, nobody could go to work. Right? So therefore, the macroeconomic indicator of, like, unemployment would be really high. Okay, so it's not directly the macroeconomic indicator, but rather it's an influence of the indicators. So, directly, what is one macroeconomic indicator that's better off today than it was a year and a half ago? Keep it in mind.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Mind.

[Dean Withers]

That macroeconomic indicators are things like inflation, GDP growth, wage growth, real median wages, unemployment, job reports, so on and so forth.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Same thing. I'm going to go with drug use.

[Dean Withers]

Stop put. Dude. Okay, dude, girl. So what macroeconomic indicators did drug use influence? Are you saying that now we have, like, a lower level of unemployment?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Because by closing the border and not allowing illegal people in here, giving me and so many other people job opportunities that they weren't allowed to have before because companies were employing illegal immigrants. Just like the weed farm in California that Newsom was directly supporting, they had children at the age of 9 years old illegally here working for them. Those people are no longer allowed here giving job opportunities to others, that is benefiting the economy, period.

[Dean Withers]

So is that why we added the lowest amount of jobs to the economy in 20 years? Ignoring recessions last year under Trump. Is that why we have the highest level of unemployment?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

They're opening opportunity, is it not opening opportunity?

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, it's not the reason why mass people. It is actually is the reason why mass deportation doesn't open up job opportunity in America is very simple. Because ultimately undocumented immigrants as a demographic are very economically productive. They pay over $100 billion in taxes,

[Annette Davis Jackson]

and those jobs are now open to

[Dean Withers]

Americans and they pay in 1.1 through $1.7 trillion to the GDP annually. And according.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

They actually don't.

[Gina]

Have you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Have you ever met an illegal immigrant that pays taxes? I'm sure you haven't.

[Dean Withers]

So my source is the irs. Do you think the IRS is lying?

[MAGA Supporter]

Absolutely.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I'm sure.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I'm sure they can lie about statistics all the time.

[Dean Withers]

So Donald Trump's IRS is lying about.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

That's not Donald Trump's irs.

[Dean Withers]

Well, that's what the IRS is saying today. Who's the president?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

No.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Well, the statistics.

[Dean Withers]

The statistics came in from years ago.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

You've used that since the last time we were here.

[Dean Withers]

Do you know who Scott Bessant is?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No.

[Dean Withers]

He's the administrator of the irs. Do you know who he's appointed by?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Donald Trump, I'm gonna assume.

[Dean Withers]

And Scott Bessant and the IRS under Trump still report that. And listen. So you don't believe that removing a

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

certain population can allow opportunities for others to come in.

[Dean Withers]

You realize it makes the economy less productive.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I have family that are refused opportunities, health care and other resources due to the fact that it's oversaturated by people who do not have a citizenship here. And by closing those borders and not allowing those people to come in, it gives them the space to have that. Because that's what my tax dollars should be paying.

[Dean Withers]

So do you think that undocumented immigrants can access like federal Medicaid, Medicare?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

They can't. Actually, they can't.

[Dean Withers]

Do you know what the Personal Work Order and Responsibility act is?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I. I actually know that they can because I do.

[Dean Withers]

You know, personal work order responsibility, they

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

typically walk in and they can get checks month per month, living month per month. And we support that. Our tax dollars that we pay.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

We support that.

[Dean Withers]

Can I get a yes or no? Do you know what the Personal Work Order and Responsibility act is?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I believe it has something to do with jobs and paying taxes. No matter your.

[Dean Withers]

No. The Personal Work Order and Responsibility act is a bill from the 90s that strictly limits and prohibits any type of federal public welfare benefit.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

And not everywhere follows the law.

[Dean Withers]

Undocumented here in California immigration immigrants. I'm gonna continue to speak. There was one slight addendum to this with Obama's EMTALA which just says that undocumented immigrants can get life saving emergency care if they need it. But the point is, when you suggest that undocumented immigrants are reliant on these federal systems of benefit and they are anyway from Medicaid to Medicare to section 8 to food stamps, they're not. It is literally illegal for them to collect those benefits and they do anyway

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

because states like California allow it. We pay for it.

[MAGA Supporter]

I believe.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No, I'm not.

[Dean Withers]

What you're confused about is a difference between limited state level benefits and federal benefits.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So you're right, but it still happens on some level. Can you acknowledge that in 10 of

[Dean Withers]

our 50 states undocumented immigrants have the limited ability to collect?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

That still is an ability.

[Dean Withers]

And my tax always fine.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

California are paying for it.

[Gina]

Yes.

[Dean Withers]

Well actually their tax dollars pay for it because they pay $100 billion and they subsidize you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

And people, people like my brother with disability that truly need those things are being cut.

[Dean Withers]

They're completely different systems.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

They're being absolutely not.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, they are.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Nope.

[Dean Withers]

What's Medicare?

[MAGA Supporter]

Medi Cal.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

My brother gets Medi Cal and they also get medi.

[Dean Withers]

California system of benefit for undocumented immigrants.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No longer. My brother literally just got something in the mail that's for Medi Cal.

[Dean Withers]

Your brother's on Medicaid?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No, he's on Medi Cal.

[Dean Withers]

The point that I'm trying to make

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

here, I'm filing for a conservatorship for my mother. I would know exactly what he gets.

[Dean Withers]

The point that I'm trying to make

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

is getting cut day by day because of the over saturation and the overpopulation of people we don't even know exists,

[Annette Davis Jackson]

always paying for them.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So do we not acknowledge that by closing the borders like I'm going to go back to my point just like you like to do with everybody else. I'm going to go back to my point point that by cutting that population off and allowing more space for opportunity for Americans would benefit the economy?

[Dean Withers]

So you're saying that you pay for the benefits of undocumented immigrants when they're paying over $100 billion per year in taxes on the federal, state and local level. Well guess what? They're paying for their own benefits in the 10 limited states that give them,

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

in fact to do their jobs.

[Dean Withers]

I mean this is, this is just anti intellectualist propaganda. That's what the IRS says. That's What? The Cato Institute. It was ran by libertarians.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

That's disgusting for you to say

[MAGA Supporter]

Later.

[Host (John Regalato)]

All right, if you want to be the next debater, get to the chair in 3, 2, 1.

[Mar / Liz]

Hi, nice to meet you. Mar.

[Dean Withers]

It's nice to meet you.

[Mar / Liz]

Nice to meet you too. I want to talk to you about my point of view as a Mexican American, Jewish. I'm not saying Trump is perfect, but I'm saying the reason I vote for him and I would vote again. First of all, I want of touch the point that she said about borders, but not about the people. I'm talking about the drugs and the traffic that is coming from my country and it's from my government because Mexico has an Arco government. You know who's the only one who has the guts to go right now and deal with the president? Trump. Because the other administration didn't do it. Who went to bring Venezuela Maduro to the jail? Trump. And this is affecting United States. I mean, I'm not saying everything he's doing is great. And I'm Jewish, so I support Israel. Who is the only one who's supporting Israel? Trump. Otherwise, I don't know how we're going to be right now in God's hands.

[Dean Withers]

Let's support a state that's committing genocide and other people don't talk about it because in Lebanon's. And let's make sure to throw $1 billion a day at a war that's killed 13 of our servicemen and women for another state, per the testimony of Joe Kent.

[Mar / Liz]

Listen, this is the first of the United States.

[Dean Withers]

I want to respond to this.

[Mar / Liz]

Israel is the first ally of United States, so we have the right to support Israel. And you know what God said to Abraham? I will bless whoever bless you and I will curse whoever curse you. If you want to be blessed. And this country needs to be blessed, needs to bless Israel first. Every single country has been. Every single country who has been cursed, Israel is. Look how they are.

[Dean Withers]

This is religious psychosis.

[Mar / Liz]

It's not religious.

[Dean Withers]

It's genuinely religious psychosis.

[Mar / Liz]

Do you see how Chavez ended? He cursed Israel from the, the testing.

[Dean Withers]

He said, you are saying.

[Mar / Liz]

And he's dead.

[Dean Withers]

Okay. Yeah. We have to bless the ethnic expansionist, genocidal terroristic state or else we're all gonna be cursed and die. I wanna respond to the first couple claims that you made specifically on topic with Venezuela and the border. So who brings in 70 to 80% of the drugs into this country per the homeland of homeland of Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela?

[Mar / Liz]

Who is bringing them? Who is supporting them is Mexican country. And I'm sorry to say it, I love my country, but my government is.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, thank you. Thank you for your response. So 70% of the drugs sold in America brought into America are brought in by citizens. Why do I bring this up? Because when we say the undocumented immigrants are the issue, they're the people that are just bringing all these drugs across the border, then they come here to like women and kidnap children and commit all these heinous violent crimes is nothing more than demonize, is the demonization of a demographic that's actually all the undocumented

[Mar / Liz]

people are the one who bringing. But that's what Trump is saying who become citizens.

[Dean Withers]

And that's why you shouldn't support Trump.

[Mar / Liz]

I'm not telling you he's doing everything perfect. I never say that. I'm talking about the borders that we have, more than 2,000 miles border with Mexico. And that's where they came the drugs and that's where they came this trafficking, I don't listen.

[Dean Withers]

Through legal ports of entry, for the

[Mar / Liz]

most part, killing our people in the streets right now.

[Dean Withers]

So once again, a vast majority of the drugs brought across the border are brought in by citizens through legal ports of entry. And when I give you an explanation for this, it's going to make sense to you because think about it, okay? When a citizen is coming in through a legal port of entry, okay, well, nobody just has the innate right, per the state, to pull them over, scrutinize them, check every, you know, nook and cranny of their vehicle. They should because of our constitution. But when, you know, they identify an undocumented immigrant, well, they already have an individual who's capable of breaking federal law. So then they have all the rights in the world to detain them, arrest them if they need to, pat them down or check their vehicle. And that's why a lot of the drugs that come into this country will come in with citizens. But I think my larger point here is I don't think that Donald Trump has secured the border. I think that the reason why we've seen such a drastic decline in undocumented entry has nothing to do with proactive long term border policy, but rather to do with fascism and human rights abuse. There are people in this country that are getting illegally deported and then tortured in places like Seekot. Executive order number 14160 attempted to unconstitutionally reclassify citizens as undocumented immigrants to be lined up and deported by the dhs.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

We're watching people like Alex Freddin get

[Dean Withers]

murdered in broad daylight by ICE agents.

[Mar / Liz]

I want to answer to you before you continue. He's talking about legal and deportation. I used to be a foster care liaison. When all these kids in cages. That was not true. I was there. They called us for an emergency meeting looking for families to support these kids. Meanwhile, they were reunificated with their families. Reunification with their families. Yes. It was not true. There wasn't cages. That was just the media, what they wanted to portray.

[Dean Withers]

So is there an argument that executive order number 14160 doesn't even exist?

[Mar / Liz]

What I'm saying is the media want to say what they want to say because they have already, you know.

[Dean Withers]

But this isn't coming from media. It's coming from where you've been voted out. All right, all right.

[Host (John Regalato)]

If you want to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Hi, welcome in. I think we should start this off a little bit.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I am.

[Gina]

And sit down.

[Dean Withers]

I know I'm talking to you while you're standing up. Hi. Okay, I'll slow it down. What's your name?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I'm Kaitia, but you can say Tia, it's a lot easier.

[Dean Withers]

Well, it's a pleasure to meet you, Tia. Thank you for being here. Listen, I say we start this conversation off a little bit differently. Can I tell you why I think Trump is a terrible president?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

That's what I was going to ask you. I would love to know, actually.

[Dean Withers]

Well, I break it down to the three main categories. His domestic policy, his foreign policy, and his character. Okay. He is the worst president of my life, the worst president of your life, and the worst president of the lives of every single person sitting in this circle. Let's start by evaluating his character. He's a 34 count felon adjudicated rapist that he's boasted about perfecting the naked bodies of beauty pageant intestines, depicted black people as monkeys on his truth social, and was sued in the 70s for refusing to rent to black people because he thought that they were quote unquote poor. And there's about a billion other things I could say because of the time on the clock. I'll keep it concise. We look at his domestic policy. There's not a single macroeconomic variable that is better off today under Trump than it was a year and a half ago under Biden. GDP growth is down. We got one of the worst jobs report in modern American history last year, adding only 170,000 jobs to the economy after adding 2.2 million under Biden in 2024, we see that unemployment is up. We saw 1.3 million layers. We see the highest increase in the price of gas in one month since the Vietnam War in 1967. Foreign policy is a disaster. He said he was going to end Russia's invasion of Ukraine on day one. He didn't. He said he was going to bring us closer to our allies. Now they all hate us because we impose unconstitutional legal tariffs on them. He said he was going to be the president of no new wars. Then he started a new war of choice in Iran just to deflect away from the Epstein files. And this, holistically, is why I think that Donald Trump is a terrible president. The mic and the floor are yours.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay, thank you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

You. So I haven't been in politics that long as far as, like, interest. It was like, 2016 really opened my eyes. I never thought Trump had a chance, honestly. But I do seem to remember in 2016, a lot of the dialogue around his win was he only won because America's racist, basically saying everyone who voted for him was racist. This is after eight years of Obama, by the way, who got reelected. So based on that, and after four years of not being president and now he's back, why do you think that he won if he's one of the most terrible presidents in our lifetime?

[Dean Withers]

Okay, yeah, I'll give a direct answer to that question. I first want to ask a clarifying one. Do you think that Biden was a bad president?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I don't want to talk about Biden because that's not why we're here.

[Dean Withers]

Right, okay. Well, I'd expect your answer to that question to be no, of course, but Biden got the most votes out of any president in history. We can't say just because people were willing to vote for a candidate to be president president, that therefore they were the best option. The reason why I think that Trump won the election had a lot to do with propaganda surrounding the negative economic impacts of the pandemic. Okay. We saw 9%, high levels of inflation, roaring gas prices, and I don't think that these things were caused by Biden, but Biden never was really too publicly outspoken about that. And I think that was a messaging problem with the Dems. The second reason why I think that Donald Trump won had to do with the fact that Kamala Harris only had a little bit over 100 days to run, which I also blame on Biden. He should have stepped down a lot sooner. But ultimately, I don't think Trump won because he's A good president, and that's undeniable. Has your life gotten better in the last year and a half?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

My life has gotten better.

[Dean Withers]

How has Trump made it better? Tell me specifically.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I honestly do feel safer with him, President. I mean, we can beat a dead horse with a closed border. That means a lot to me.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Like, I'm a mom.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I have kids. It's important to me that. And I live in la, which is like, crazy, right? Do you live out here or.

[Dean Withers]

No, No, I don't. But you would be safer to leave your children with the average undocumented immigrant compared to the average Citizen. Listen, they're 2.5 times less likely to commit violent crimes compared to the average US Citizen.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

My home with me, that's why I go to school, and that's why I'm a. I'm a mom, and my children come first. So for me, being able to do that is a blessing. There's a lot of sacrifices that come with that, especially in this economy. I would be lying if I didn't say, like, it's difficult with the gas prices, it's difficult with the groceries and the tariffs. There's a lot of things. Yeah, similar with Biden.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

There was a lot.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Inflation has not increased in the same amount as it did under Biden.

[Dean Withers]

What did Biden do to cause it?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

The money to Ukraine and the open border? You can look and you can research about how much it cost us to send the amount of money that we did to Ukraine and what.

[Dean Withers]

How much money did we send to Ukraine?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

What it to affect our economy? And also with the undocumented immigrants, how much money did we send Ukraine Medical. They were getting money for food and free housing.

[Dean Withers]

How much money did we send to Ukraine in four years under Biden?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

You tell me.

[Dean Withers]

$220 billion. Approximately. Okay, now here's the thing. If you're going to blame Biden's 9% high level of inflation on $220 billion spent over the course of four years, then why don't we see, like, 50% levels of inflation? Considering the fact that in the last year and a half, Donald Trump has passed the big, beautiful bill, which, according to most estimates, is clocked in to cost us around $3.4 trillion over the course of 10 years, or the simple fact that he's spending a billion dollars a day on a war in Iran, he's going to send just as much money or spend just as much money on this war in Iran as Biden did in four years on Ukraine in less than a year, and on Top of that, the chariots. Donald Trump has continued the funding.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

And I think the important.

[Dean Withers]

Blaming a 9% high level of inflation on $220 billion worth of expenditure is nuts, especially when we consider that the Biden Harris administration spent half of what the Trump administration spent in their first term.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I get what you're saying, and I think both of us, at the end of the day, we want what's best for America. I think we have different plans or strategies to get there. But the main thing I did want to come up here and say, I don't think you really answered it, was if Trump. Trump was the worst president in our lifetime, how did he win twice, if not three times? Depending on who you talk to. Exactly. So if he was that terrible, either were the. And I mean, you can say, are we dumb as a box of rocks? Like, are we the stupidest people? I've been told I'm internalized racism.

[Dean Withers]

Do you want me to internalize misogyny?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I would love for you to be honest.

[Dean Withers]

I don't think that anybody in the circle is particularly intelligent.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Okay. And I understand that that's how people see us.

[Host (John Regalato)]

We're going to stop there. You've been voted out. Return to your seat.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Well, thank you for your time.

[Dean Withers]

Thank you for your time.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Tia, if you want to be the next debater, get to the chair in 3, 2, 1. Hi.

[Dean Withers]

Hi.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

My name's Leah.

[Dean Withers]

Nice to meet you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Nice to meet you, too. Just a little background. I am currently active duty in the United States Marine Corps. I'm not here on.

[Dean Withers]

Be careful.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I'm not here on behalf of the Department of War, by the way, I also grew up in Jerusalem, Israel, and I think that Trump has done a lot for me personally, and I feel like that's what we should all. All be here speaking about to an extent. I've gotten paid more under him. I've gotten bonuses under him. The military has tightened up under him. And from that perspective, I. He's my commander in chief, and I'm grateful for that.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah. Out of everybody sitting in the circle, you have the most reason to not support Trump. Could I tell you why?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I would love to know why.

[Dean Withers]

Because of your oath. You took an oath to defend the Constitution from enemies overseas and domestic.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Correct.

[Dean Withers]

Can we agree that an enemy to the Constitution, domestic or foreign, would be a person who thinks that the Constitution should be terminated is intentionally and belligerently infringing upon it?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Can you go in depth with that, please?

[Dean Withers]

Well, I mean, I think that is all the context that would be required to understand an enemy. If there's somebody that is intentionally and belligerently infringing on the Constitution, has suggested that maybe we should terminate it before can we agree that person would be an enemy to the Constitution.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

That would be an enemy. I do agree with you, but I don't with agree agree with you if you're saying that's what Trump has done.

[Dean Withers]

December of 2022, Trump went on Truth Social and said that because of the 2020 election, the termination of all rules, regulations and articles, including those found within the Constitution would be allowed. And in the last year and a half of his presidency, he is directly infringed on the 14th Amendment, threatened the 1st, threatened the 2nd, infringed on the 4th, infringed on the 10th, and threatened to infringe on the 23rd. On top of Article 1 and 2, Donald Trump is a domestic enemy to the Constitution.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I do not agree with that whatsoever because just because you're stating all these things kind of like a fact check, but he, like he, he hasn't actually put those in place.

[Dean Withers]

Executive order number 14160 is put in place and attempted to take birthright citizenship away from the children born to undocumented immigrants on American soil. But that is a long withstanding ruling from school, regardless of its plier veto in 1989 saying that undocumented immigrants are within the jurisdiction of the US or US v won Kamark in the late 19th century, arguing that the only people who do not have a constitutional claim to birthright citizen would be members of militant invading forces, foreign diplomats and Native Americans, which was later updated through federal law. We know for a fact that the 14th Amendment covers the protection of birthright citizenship for the children born to undocumented immigrants. Donald Trump says, well, I'm going to change that and passes an illegal unconstitutional executive order stating otherwise. That is a domestic threat to our Constitution that you as a member of our doj, as an active duty service member of the Marines, should absolutely protest and stand in wide opposition against.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

So that I would not agree makes him a domestic enemy. This is militant. This is what I signed an O oath for and what I raised my right hand for. It's militant. And that has not affected us in that military aspect, I don't think. So if you could give me an example of how. So as far as like immigration and all these, these people who have joined the military to get papers for their parents and stuff like that, whether they were born here or not, it's been in effect and it's Been very helpful for them.

[Dean Withers]

What were your thoughts on Donald Trump calling for the execution of six sitting Democrats in Congress who reminded you to abide by your oath?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Six what?

[Dean Withers]

Six Democrats in Congress posted a video saying, if you're given a legal order, you don't gotta follow it. And you should know that's what the UCMJ says.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Yeah, no, absolutely.

[Dean Withers]

And Donald Trump called for their execution because of that.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I don't know much about that, honestly.

[Dean Withers]

I'll tell you.

[Gina]

Yeah, please do.

[Dean Withers]

He went on Truth Social. He responded to an article talking about these six stimulants in Congress who posted a video saying, like, oh, runner, your oath don't follow any unlawful orders. If Trump were to give you one. And he calls him seditious traitors, follows it up by saying, traitors punishable by death. And then he reposts a follower's comment that says hang them. George Washington would. Okay, so he falsely accuses them of a crime they didn't commit. You and me could agree it's not treasonous to tell the military not to unfollow unlawful orders. You seem Jay, once again. And then he says, well, because of this crime that he's accusing them of that they didn't commit, they need to be hung. That's him directly calling for the execution of six Democrats in Congress that were just simply reminding you of the ucj. How could you stand by such a maniac?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No, honestly, we have multiple times gone against if it does not follow along with the UCMJ throughout history in the military, and they've been awarded for that if our military leader, and for example, Donald Trump is one of them. But if they go against what the UCMJ does, we are allowed to go against that.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah. And so that's all the dimmits were saying. And then he said they needed to die. Because they said that.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

No, he said who needed to die?

[Dean Withers]

These Democrats. He said that their sedition is punishable by death. Death, okay, the sedition that they didn't commit. And then he followed that up by reposting a comment that said hang them. Explicitly hang them. That was him calling for their execution. There's no if, ands or buts about it. I feel like you're maybe one of the more reasonable people that I've spoken with today. You should be able to see this so clearly, and maybe this might even be an historical moment here, unsurrounded, where I'm able to change the mind of a guest on the show. That'd be huge.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

That would be huge if it was going to happen, but it's not.

[Dean Withers]

Oh my goodness. We're out of time.

[Host (John Regalato)]

We have to pause the there.

[Dean Withers]

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[Host (John Regalato)]

Fit for all times.

[Dean Withers]

The Colonels cooked up a new $10 bucket of the day just for you. Monday, 24 nuggets for $10. Tuesday, eight piece fried chicken for $10. Wednesday, 10 wings for $10. Thursday, eight tenders for $10. Friday, 24 nuggets for. Oh, you guessed it, didn't you? $10 finger licking machine. The $10 bucket of the day deal every weekday only at KFC. It's finger licking. Good prices and participation. Variable supplies last not available on third party ordering platforms. Tax extra claim is Donald Trump doesn't give a shit about any of you.

[Host (John Regalato)]

If you want to debate Dean's claim, get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Hi.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Hi, Dean.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, I think that my, my, my claim here is clear. Donald Trump doesn't give a shit about anybody in this circle. What I mean by that is just Donald Trump generally doesn't care about women. He's a very misogynistic asshole.

[Gina]

Promises made, promises kept. Opposite number one, he's got more women on his cabinet than most presidents did.

[Dean Withers]

And he's fired, what, four of them?

[Gina]

Doesn't matter.

[Dean Withers]

I think it does. Everything he's fired so far has been one.

[Gina]

If they don't, you fire them. Pam Bondi did nothing.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, she was a terrible ag.

[Gina]

Exactly. And he didn't like that.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

So we fired her.

[Dean Withers]

I think that she was a terrible AG for preventing the release of the files. I digress. I'm interrupting you. Sorry, go ahead.

[Gina]

And he pardoned the J6ers like he said he would. And now he created a weaponization fund, which I think is great. And he forgo all his money, which is $10 billion. And he took 1.7 billion 1776 to give to the people that refused to take shots that were fired because they didn't want to get the vax, that were targeted by the Biden doj, grannies that were thrown in prison, people that literally just stepped foot on the Capitol grounds and were thrown in prison. For years. No tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, and the lowest prescription prices that we've ever had. Safe borders. No more child trafficking.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, Listen, Nikki cares about us. Let's start with that $1.8 billion slush. Yeah, you said it was his personal money. That's not true. It's funded by the taxpayers.

[Gina]

That's owed to him.

[Dean Withers]

Secondarily, it is an absolute disaster.

[Gina]

Just like all the money comes from.

[Dean Withers]

It's crazy that our president is willing to give $1.8 billion to people such as the J6 terrorists.

[Gina]

Well, they're not generalists.

[Dean Withers]

Well, I mean, I think they are. For instance, there were 176 people who were criminally convicted of deadly assaults on police officers. Take, for example, DJ Rodriguez, who drove a stun gun into Officer Fanon's neck. While Officer Fanon was on the ground getting beaten with metal rods. It's been proven to grab his gun and kill him. And then DJ Rodriguez pled guilty to doing this in court after Officer Fanon's testimony and his body camera footage proved it.

[Gina]

Are you familiar with Roseanne Boylan? She was beaten to death by an officer, Lila Morris. Okay, nobody talks about that. Ashley Babbitt was killed, shot in the neck. She was an unarmed woman, a military woman. There was no need for that. We went there. People went there peacefully and patriotically.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, and that's why they were screaming, hang Mike Pence. Right?

[Gina]

Well, yeah, but nobody that I was that peaceful. There was a lot of infiltrators. There was over 300 FBI agents in there.

[Dean Withers]

Oh, really? Who's FBI?

[Gina]

Exactly. Who's FBI? Right. Everybody says that.

[Dean Withers]

Who's president on day six?

[Gina]

It doesn't matter.

[Dean Withers]

It does.

[Gina]

I read about that because it was Donald Trump. I read that and read it.

[Dean Withers]

And by the way, who did Trump pardon? Did he pardon infiltrators?

[Gina]

It was under Obama.

[Dean Withers]

Obama was president on J6.

[Gina]

He wasn't Obama. He wasn't president on J6. President Trump was. But Obama's the one who's been trying to persecute him. Obama, Biden. Stay on with the Russian dossier. Yeah.

[Dean Withers]

So Obama infiltrated Trump's FBI.

[Gina]

He's the one. Not just Obama, but all the leftists. All the deep state, my friend.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

You've lost your goddamn mind.

[Gina]

Nancy Pelosi.

[Dean Withers]

Then why? Well, listen, here's the real why didn't

[Gina]

they have National Guard?

[Dean Withers]

Well, apparently, Donald Trump had the ability to call them there. And this is proven by a second term, according to Donald Trump.

[Gina]

Did you not hear?

[Dean Withers]

He doesn't need to try to send the National Guard. Did you not hear? He just simply can. I want to do a quick litmus test on one of the claims that you made about all the J6 antifa terrorists that were infiltrating the crowd to cause havoc.

[Gina]

Yes, we know that. There was over 300 people dressed up as.

[Dean Withers]

So do we agree that everybody who is criminally convicted on J6 has since been pardoned by Trump?

[Gina]

I. I believe so.

[Dean Withers]

So Donald Trump pardoned antifa terrorists and now he's offering them $100 billion charged.

[Gina]

Though a lot of the antifa people didn't get charged.

[Dean Withers]

Why don't you give me some evidence for that, ma'?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Am?

[Gina]

Well, I don't. Did Ray.

[Dean Withers]

So you don't believe.

[Gina]

Get charged.

[Dean Withers]

So you don't believe in things.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Right.

[Dean Withers]

Without evidence. So what's the evidence?

[Gina]

I believe in facts. Okay, so just like Donald Trump cares about the American people.

[Dean Withers]

Maybe we should get back to that first.

[Gina]

Yeah.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, so we got a pause there. You've been voted out.

[Dean Withers]

Have a good one.

[Host (John Regalato)]

All right, if you want to be the next debater, get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Howdy. Howdy. Hi. Hi. Welcome.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Thank you. Would you like to carry on with

[Annette Davis Jackson]

why you think that Trump doesn't care

[Dean Withers]

about you, doesn't care about anybody in the circle because he generally doesn't care about women. He has had a lifetime of vapid misogyny, like the fact that he's a sexual predator, he's a rapists, that he's overturned policy that has led to 60 pregnant victims per day being denied access to abortion in 10 every 50 states or an attack on our economy. Everything is worse off today than it was a year and a half ago under Giga. Chad Biden. I don't think he cares about you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

He almost took a bullet for this country. And he faces. He's faced so many assassination attempts. Yeah, he faces threats, as you should know.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

I mean, you.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

You cried with Charlie Kirk.

[Dean Withers]

I mean, listen, specifically, this will be 10 seconds or less so we could get back to the topic. I cried because I thought that it was a mass shooting. My friend was less than 30ft away. He FaceTimed me running away saying, dean, I think that there's a mass shooting going on. And regardless of the fact that I didn't like Charlie Kirk, I'll be honest. I think that he's despicable. He endorsed child torture. I still saw a video of somebody that I personally knew. Okay. Their jugular ripped open by a bullet. It was Rough. And, yeah, I shed a tear. That was very intense. But listen, the topic is.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I think it really humanized you.

[Dean Withers]

The topic is Donald Trump doesn't generally care about women. He doesn't give a shit about anybody in the circle. You're arguing that. Well, maybe he does care about women because he took a bullet to the ear.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Why would he put his life on the line if he didn't care?

[Dean Withers]

Well, I think the reason why he's willing to apparently take a bullet to the ear isn't because he cares about you, or else we'd see that demonstrated through his actions, words and policies, which obviously hasn't occurred, but rather maybe you took a bullet because it was either the bullet or the jail cell for his 34 felonies, attempted coup on J6. And he wants that power, he wants that adoration, he wants that glory, he wants that fame. He wants his name to be in the history books. That's why he's illegally placing his name on the Kennedy center or attempting to commit the conquest of America, usurping Iran to be the 51st state, Venezuela to be the 52nd, and Canada to be the 53rd. That's what he wants to get out of it. He doesn't want to help you. Or, once again, we'd see that representative through his policy, which we don't.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I vehemently disagree with that. He cares for law enforcement. He cares for firefighters, mothers trying to get pregnant. And it's disheartening that the way you describe Trump, it's like you're describing a leader in the Middle east, someone that's an actual dictator, an actual fascist. And it's for someone that has traveled.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah. I mean, true.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Has seen how other countries operate. This is the best country in the world. And we're so, so lucky to have Donald Trump as a president. And I'm disheartened that you can't see that.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, you said that he cares about law enforcement. Then why did he pardon 178 people who attempted to assault or kill cops

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

on J6 on January 6th?

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, he pardoned. Like, we went over this earlier. DJ Rodriguez, okay, drove a stun gun into Officer Fanon's neck, gave him a heart attack. He had to be raced off to the hospital. DJ Rodriguez was then thrown in jail for 10 years. Trump says he's a patriot, gives him a full and complete presidential party, and has now created a $1.8 billion slush fund that's going to line DJs pockets. Dude, there's no way he cares about Cops, if that's what he's willing to give to a would be cop killer.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Well, honestly, I don't know all the details of that.

[Dean Withers]

If everything that I just said was true, would you concede that Donald Trump does not care about law enforcement?

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

I would be curious why he. I mean, I don't know what information he has that I don't.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

So I would have to place my

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

trust in the President of the United States.

[Dean Withers]

Did you place your trust in Biden?

[Host (John Regalato)]

Got a pause there. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat. If you would like to be the next debater, get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Dean Withers]

Welcome back, Liz.

[Liz / Kate]

Hi.

[Dean Withers]

All right. Well, I mean, you know my thoughts. I think that Trump is the worst president of your life. And I think that he consistently demonstrates that through his rhetoric and policy. What are your thoughts?

[Liz / Kate]

I love Trump. And honestly, I love everything that Trump is doing with Israel. I am Jewish. I am very pro Israel. I know how you feel about Israel, but I feel like you probably don't know the facts. I also love what Trump is doing with Iran because that he does care about women. He wants to free the women of Iran from the Islamic regime. He wants to free the women all around the world. And you see. Tell me what you like about Iran or Palestine and how they treat women.

[Dean Withers]

Well, I actually want to start off with a claim that you made about Iran. Is Donald Trump negotiating with the IRGC to achieve a denuclearization agreement today?

[Liz / Kate]

There's no negotiating with terrorists.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, according to Trump, that's not true. He says that there are active, ongoing negotiations and they're performing great.

[Liz / Kate]

Yeah, of course.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, so he's okay. So the reason why I ask you this question is because the IRGC isn't going anywhere. Because Donald Trump has already said that he's achieved all of his military objectives in this war. He's already quote, unquote, couped the IRGC and committed regime change by just getting more moderate voices to lead the IRGC. And now he's actively negotiating like a 30 to 50 year agreement with them so they will never have the ability to nuclearize again. What this means is that Donald Trump actually wants the IRGC to stay in charge of Iran or else this denuclearization effort that has costed us 13 lives, a billion dollars a day, and higher gas prices and prices everywhere would be for nothing. And because the irgc then he wouldn't be negotiating with him. He wouldn't be trying to get a deal with them. You don't you don't advocate to get a deal with a party that you don't think should exist.

[Liz / Kate]

Here's the thing. Islam right now is taking over all of these countries. They've taken over most of Europe. They're starting to take over in the United States. He has to do this in a very careful manner. There are billions of Islamists who are trying to take over every. They will not stop until they have infiltrated every country. Their world is not mine. It's literally what they say. They say they will not stop until Islam is in every single household. That is what they say. And that is why we need Israel, and that is why Trump is going to do everything he can in his power to annihilate the irs, which is what needs to happen.

[Dean Withers]

Jesus Christ. Okay, so first and foremost, if I could compulsorily puke on this table without getting you dirty, I probably would, because everything that you just said was legitimately disgusting.

[Liz / Kate]

How is that disgusting?

[Dean Withers]

First and foremost, for you to demonize. To demonize and turn all Muslim people along.

[Liz / Kate]

Not all Muslim. No. Islamists.

[Dean Withers]

You said that there were billions of Islamists infiltrating every crook and cranny of the world.

[Liz / Kate]

They are.

[Dean Withers]

So I think.

[Liz / Kate]

Have you traveled.

[Dean Withers]

Listen, I think that we absolutely.

[Liz / Kate]

What was the last place you traveled to internationally?

[Dean Withers]

Let me respond to what you said.

[Liz / Kate]

Have you gone to New York, where they're literally doing prayer in World.

[Dean Withers]

The.

[Liz / Kate]

The street? Yes.

[Dean Withers]

If you pray in public, then all of a sudden you're extremist. Go tell that to every Christian evangelical that put their sh. That put their hand on Trump's shoulder in the Oval Office. On camera.

[Liz / Kate]

It's.

[Dean Withers]

Oh, it's different. Because it's another religion. Exactly. When it's about Jesus. No, listen to what I'm saying. Listen to what I'm saying.

[Liz / Kate]

Take over.

[Dean Withers]

Listen what I'm saying here. When it's about Jesus, Jewish people know.

[Liz / Kate]

Go into every single country and try and take over.

[Dean Withers]

Oh, yeah, right. And that's why they're going into the West Bank. That's why they're going to Gaza. That's why they're going in Lebanon. Listen to what I'm saying here.

[Liz / Kate]

Out of Gaza.

[Dean Withers]

Listen what I'm saying.

[Liz / Kate]

Get your facts straight.

[Dean Withers]

And what's going on in the west bank today?

[Liz / Kate]

Hamas has literally been in charge of Gaza since 2005.

[Dean Withers]

And what's going on in the west bank today?

[Liz / Kate]

Terrorist organization.

[Dean Withers]

What's going on in the West Bank?

[Liz / Kate]

Israel literally has backed out. When you have people, you have a tiny little country the size of New Jersey.

[Dean Withers]

We're getting all over the place. We're getting all over the place.

[Liz / Kate]

What do you think is going to happen?

[Dean Withers]

Let's hone this in. Well, a. What I wouldn't want to happen is like vapid war crimes. Do you think that 25 mile radius. One moment. I don't think that any country has an inherent right to exist. I think that people have a right to self determination. A country is a collective of people. Countries in and themselves are not moral entities.

[Liz / Kate]

Explain. Okay, explain.

[Dean Withers]

I am explaining it to you. Let me speak. I don't want you to interrupt me. I want to answer your last question. You asked me a good one. You said, dean, do you think that Israel has a right to exist? I think that that question is incomprehensible. And the reason why I say that question is incomprehensible is because a state is not a body in which has rights. People are entities in which have rights. A collective of people collectively have a right to self determination. But the social construct of a state and a government is just a figure of our imagination through the collective of civilization, not an entity in which has rights.

[Liz / Kate]

How many Jewish people live in Palestine?

[Dean Withers]

I want to be able to respond to anything.

[Liz / Kate]

Live in the 57 Muslim countries.

[Dean Withers]

Liz, what you're doing is you're attempting to overwhelm me with questions which is a gish gallop. I want to ensure that I have proper time to go over every statement that has left your mouth, particularly the first statement that you made about the billions of Islamists calling them radical because they pray in public. Christians.

[Liz / Kate]

That's not why I call them radical because they pray in public. I call them radical because they literally say that they will be. They will not stop until Islam is in every single household in every country and they have completely taken over. And I think that say that everywhere.

[Dean Withers]

I think that every mainstream religion. Okay. Wishes that everybody on earth agreed with all.

[Liz / Kate]

No.

[Dean Withers]

Yes, of course they do. Let me explain to you why Christians are a Christian. Are you a Christian?

[Liz / Kate]

I'm Jewish.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, here, listen. I'm gonna ask a question to the Christians in the circle. Do you guys think that the only way to get to heaven is to have faith in the gospel.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Absolutely.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Jesus Christ.

[Dean Withers]

Amen. And now I want you to put your flag down, okay? If you don't want everybody to go to heaven, everybody still has their flag up. What that tells me is that everybody with their flag up think flags up thinks that the only way to get to heaven is to be a Christian. Okay. And they want everybody to go to heaven. What does this mean? They want everybody to be a Christian. So from this guest's line of argumentation, everybody with their flag up is a radical extremist, no different than the Islamists that want everybody alive to believe that Muhammad is a prophet.

[Liz / Kate]

I have a question for the circle. All of the Christians in the circle, do you believe that if someone does not recognize Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior that they should be killed? Based Islam does.

[Dean Withers]

So. Okay, yeah, so that's a really argument to rebuttal. Listen, I agree that when you read the Quran and the Hadiths through a particularly fundamentalist scope, you could absolutely yield the conclusion that we should like, oh, kill everybody. That's not a, that's not a Muslim 110 and I disagree with that fundamentalist interpretation of the Quran and Hadith. And I think the people who don't are crazy. But we could do the same thing to the Christian Bible. When we look at the Christian Bible and we read it through a fundamentalist scope, well then all of a sudden it is totally okay to own choices because of Leviticus 25, verses 44 through 46. Genocide is totally fine sometimes because of 1 Samuel 15:3. And it's, sometimes it's okay to like impregnate kids because the historical representation of marriage under a fundamentalist, under a fundamentalist scope is that Mary was around 13. And the reason why I'm giving you the fundamentalist interpretation of the Christian Bible isn't to shit on Christianity as a whole, but it's rather to say that when you read any religious text through that fundamentalist perspective, you could always yield grave immoralities like slavery, pedophilia, or killing people who disagree with you. But the thing is, is that a lot of Christians alongside a lot of Muslims don't hold to that fundamentalist interpretation of their respective religious texts that yield those grave immoralities and rather practice their religion and in a quite benevolent way.

[Liz / Kate]

The issue is you have people in Iran who are literally suffering, people who had to flee Iran 47 years ago, who are still suffering to this day, people all around the world. Because the Islam extremists, the ones who are also in charge of a lot of these countries, will kill you, they will behead you, they will do whatever they can to harm you if you do not believe with what they believe in, if you do not agree that the Prophet Muhammad is the one and only and Islam is the only religion and that should be allowed in the world. So that's the Thing, we are dealing with this today with Islam, and that's where the issue lies.

[Dean Withers]

Islam is true.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, we're stop there. We're out of time. Thank you.

[Dean Withers]

Thanks for the dialogue.

[Host (John Regalato)]

All right, I just want to give snaps to everybody in the circle so far. Good job, Dean, snaps to you. Good job. Let's take a breath. It's been a heated episode. For the last portion of this video, I ask that you look around the circle. Circle and select somebody who you want to come back to the center and debate their claim with.

[Dean Withers]

Oh, God. See, there's. There's so many options here. I don't know. People might hate me at home for this one. I wanted to respond to what she had to say. Yeah, let's do it. Get up here.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Yes.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Well, I'll give you credit.

[Laurie]

You're.

[Shiva Bagheri]

You're brave to pick me, so that's good. Or, Dominic, my surrounded claim is that Democrats sold our country out.

[Dean Withers]

Can I have an explanation of what you mean when you say that?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Well, first off, their open border policies, you know, sanctuary cities, which are completely unconstitutional. Thank God we have Sheriff Chad Bianco running for governor. Hopefully, we'll eliminate that. You know, they said, Russia, Russia, Russia. Right. About President Trump. Well, who sold our uranium to Russia? And I love when Trump was talking to all of these European countries, he said, says, you guys keep screaming, russia, Russia, Russia. Why aren't you buying oil from us? Why are you buying it from Russia? So there's so many good things that Trump has done, and the Democrats have completely like, I'm from Iran originally. The fact that Obama gave boatloads of cash to that evil regime makes me so angry. So I love that Trump annihilated General Soleimani and a proxy guy in Iraq offed him because he killed 10, 10,000 people, including women and children.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, a lot.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Yeah. Yeah. So I am so happy for him getting rid of the nuclear facilities along with Benjamin Netanyahu with the intelligence that they brought in and the weapons, and they are our only allies. And the liberals hate Israel.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Yeah.

[Shiva Bagheri]

This was like, it could have been World War III if we didn't get rid of this stuff. You and I might not be here the next five, ten years.

[Dean Withers]

You should hate Trump then.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Oh, I should love him because he just stopped World War 3. He stopped the Deep State from destroying this world. And that's what Marxists do. That's what Marxists do. They have no grip on reality. They have no God, and they don't understand what's actually going on because they're more concerned about putting men in women's bathrooms in their sports.

[Dean Withers]

Oh, my goodness. What's a communist? Can you define that word?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Yeah, it's somebody that thinks that we should not have our own private property. So the government gets to choose, which is. I don't want the government to be my mommy and daddy. Okay. It's supposed to be a representative government, which is called a constitutional republic. We are not a freaking democracy.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, well, we're not a democracy.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Yeah, Go look at John Adams and what he said about democracy.

[Dean Withers]

So first and foremost, you weren't necessarily right about what a communist. Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society. Now onto your second point here about.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Yeah, and did it work?

[Dean Withers]

Did it work?

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Have you watched Dr. Zhivago?

[Dean Withers]

Can I respond? So you said that we're not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Correct.

[Dean Withers]

So a constitutional republic would be a type of representative democracy. And what I mean when I say that is these two phrases are used interchangeably because under a republic, what. We have duly elected leaders that then represent the interests of. Of the constituents of the nation. Under a representative democracy, we have duly elected leaders that represent the constituents.

[Shiva Bagheri]

No, democracy is minus a constitution and the rule of law. So what? So it's basically, if you're saying you're a democracy, the 51% could go and kill off the 49%.

[Dean Withers]

That's called a direct democracy. So.

[Shiva Bagheri]

But yeah, pure democracy.

[Dean Withers]

When Donald Trump said that he took a bullet for the American democracy, he was wrong.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Well, he likes to use that word, I think, to. To reach out to the democrats. I believe he's wrong because I don't.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

Okay.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I don't believe we're democracy. I don't like the word democracy. I like. I have like a twitch when.

[Dean Withers]

When I hear the word because it's almost just like.

[Host (John Regalato)]

You go crazy.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Democracy, hypocrisy, bureaucracy. I mean, it's just.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, now another claim they made there, is that about the.

[Shiva Bagheri]

You want to throw up. I want to throw up when I hear the word democracy.

[Dean Withers]

Yeah, Maga.

[Shiva Bagheri]

So listen, okay, it's. You said maga like a swear word. Why did you say that like a swear word word? Isn't that a good thing? Make America great again?

[Dean Withers]

Well, what's not a good thing is saying that you're making America great again. By taking health care away from 10 million loan from Americans like Trump did taking food stamps away from 3 million loans from the Americans, you got rid

[Shiva Bagheri]

of the fraud in the health care.

[Dean Withers]

Can I speak?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Yeah, but you're lying right now. You're lying.

[Dean Withers]

So I'll go ahead and restart and I'll give you my sources at the end.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Okay.

[Dean Withers]

Composure is important, ma'.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Am.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Oh, you're going to talk down to me? I'm your elder. You have respect for your elder.

[Dean Withers]

So first and foremost, Biden is your elder and you don't have any respect for him. Well, because let's stop it with the hypocrisy.

[Shiva Bagheri]

No, he's an evil man.

[Dean Withers]

You asked me why do I use MAGA like a swear word? Because Donald Trump has used that phrase make America great again to represent actions like taking health care away from 10 million low income Americans through the big beautiful bill. Per the reports from the Congressional Budget Office, which is ran by Republicans, liberal estimates are a little bit higher at like 17 million people took food stamps away from 3 million low income Americans through the big beautiful bill as well. And according to the center on Budget and Policy Priorities, he reduced the purchasing power of the average American making out or under $51,000 per year. He refused to abide by a court order to pay out food stamp benefits for 12 million starving children in America during the last 12 days of the government shutdown. Okay. He's abused his power and privilege as the president to position himself above the law. One of the last things that you said when you're upturned, the last prompt was, oh, I thought everybody was above the law except for Trump. Okay. A couple weeks ago, we woke up in a new America with a new system of justice where you and Trump could commit the same crime, tax fraud. You could be thrown in jail for for it. And he can't even be investigated for it because of his deal with the IRS and all of those things when they are used to represent the claim make America great again, absolutely do make MAGA a slur. It's embarrassing to be maga. I mean, get a grip, you guys. Get a grip. And I said a lot there. I'll let you to respond, but I have so much else to say. You know, like you were talking about, like how we need to prevent Iran from getting nukes. We're at a worse place with Iran today than we were 10 years ago thanks to Donald Trump. Obama got us an agreement to prevent them from nuclearizing until 20, 20, 30. Donald Trump tore it up because it has Obama's signature on it. And about the whole respect your elders thing. So you can't expect me to respect you because you're older than me. If you're gonna turn around and call Biden a good American man with great domestic policy. One of the best presidents in modern American history. A crazy, lunatic, evil man with a crack. With a crackhead son, even though he's 30 years elderly.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Ukraine. It's on record. He said, I'm not gonna get. You know, you're not gonna get the million dollar loan unless you stop this investigation. Investigation into Brisma, which his son was a part of and had zero experience.

[Liz / Kate]

Illegal.

[Dean Withers]

That's extortion. Why isn't he in jail?

[Shiva Bagheri]

So he should be. Why is it because the Deep state have the judges. They have so much. They've infiltrated this country.

[Dean Withers]

Donald Trump just hired 400 new judges that are loyalist to him. Why doesn't he use one of them to get in jail?

[Shiva Bagheri]

Because unfortunately, he doesn't get to pick which judge is used. And a lot of these judges are just evil.

[Dean Withers]

Why isn't he even true? He hasn't tried.

[Shiva Bagheri]

There's been so many lies coming from your mouth. I'm like twitching over there. Every lie died on January 6th. That, that.

[Dean Withers]

I said that they tried to kill cops.

[Shiva Bagheri]

No, they did not try to kill cops. It was self defense. They were being attacked. Four patriots died that day. And you don't hear anything except for the one that, that got shot by the. The cop. Yeah.

[Dean Withers]

How about this? Can I ask you a question?

[Shiva Bagheri]

There's four of them that died and zero died that day. One cop died the next day at 9:30pm from a stroke. So that was a lie. And I feel bad for people like you in your age because you're being indoctrinated with all this evil. You, you have no appreciation for life. You're willing to kill the most innocent and vulnerable. But if you were the baby in the womb, guess what? You wouldn't want to be aborted. You'd be like, mommy, please keep. Save me, please.

[Dean Withers]

I don't even know what to respond to. There's just a bunch of. It was a big mess. Hey, listen, let's go ahead and start off with this. I want to ask you some general questions about your political beliefs because I believe that you hold them without much information. Name one domestic policy that the Biden Harris administration influenced to get passed through Congress, then signed into law that you don't like. Keep in mind, once again, policy is a bill passed through Congress and signed into law.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Well, so I don't know that. I just know what he.

[Dean Withers]

How many amendments are there in the Constitution? How many amendments are there in the Constitution?

[Shiva Bagheri]

I don't know exact off the top.

[Dean Withers]

You don't know how many articles.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Can I.

[Dean Withers]

How about this? How many continents are there?

[Shiva Bagheri]

You know, a lot of.

[Dean Withers]

How many continents are there?

[Shiva Bagheri]

I'll give you that.

[Dean Withers]

How many continents are there? Okay, ma', am, how many continents are there?

[Shiva Bagheri]

There's hundreds, but I can't.

[Tracy / Leah / Enya / Georgia (various female Trump supporters)]

There's seven.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Oh, seven continents. Not countries. Sorry, Countries. I thought you were talking about countries. This is. I'm not doing an information war. I'm doing what I saw him do. He glorified a man on Woman's Day. He's trying to destroy reality of men and women. That is a bad thing, and that's a Marxist thing. So, you know, you're asking me all of these questions because you're trying to get me. Okay, yeah, I might not have all of these little things that you remember, but what I know is common sense. And Biden's administration is not common sense. They sold us out. Just like Obama. Giving money to our enemies instead of helping our allies. Like Israel, who was the only country to stand. And nuclear facilities that could have caused World War Three. Let me finish. World War iii. Except for Israel. Israel was the only one Donald Trump asked other countries to help because they were affecting them, too. And they had their tail between their legs and did nothing.

[Dean Withers]

So, ma', am, the reason why I picked you to come up to the microphone knowing that it'd be a disaster is because I think that you are a very accurate representation of where the riot is at today in modern political discourse and American politics. I think that you and many others are clueless people who don't know what they're talking about, have done no previous investigation or research into the American political system, can't even name a bill that Biden passed that you disagree with, yet you think he's a devil and blame Obama for all of your problems, including the FBI, quote, unquote, quote, going into the J6 riots four years after his administration was over. And I think that it is very important for you, me, everybody in the circle, and everybody watching at home to start caring about the world that we live in, start caring about critical thought and doing investigative research into our beliefs and why we believe them before our world has gone to this shit of baseless claims, propaganda, and just putrid nonsense that is highlighted in the mouths and brains of politicians, the president, President and cable news. It's important for us to think critically. And that's something that I don't think you do.

[Shiva Bagheri]

I think it's just straight up, one word, projection. Left. Always projects. That's it. You're projecting all of your faults on me because I actually have life experience which you don't have. And I have been a liberal and I stepped out of that when I saw what they were doing with my child day at school who I pulled out and am homeschooling.

[Dean Withers]

I've been on the earth for less years than you have, but I've done more with the years that I have.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Okay, we gotta stop there.

[Dean Withers]

Okay, thank you.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Let's give them. Let's give them a round of applause for crime. Let's give a round of applause to Dean. Thank you, Dean. You want to let us know what you thought about this episode? Leave a comment. But actually, don't do that. Just go for a walk, take a breath. That was a pretty heated discussion. Tune in Wednesday for a follow up discussion with some of the people in this episode. Thank you for watching. Maybe let us know who you want to see in the center next time. We'll see you next time.

[Dean Withers]

I hate it so much just seeing people be so lost in their delusion. And these people who believe in these things so undoubtedly to with such a high level of confidence are laurons.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Well, Dean is the typical liberal man and he will insult you when he's losing an argument. How many times did he insult me? We had to stop.

[MAGA Supporter]

I think that MAGA women often get mischaracterized as uneducated or that they're oppressed. And honestly, a lot of MAGA women have come from liberal backgrounds. They've taken a lot of thought into why they believe what they believe.

[Liz / Kate]

We're all MAGA in our own unique ways. And I feel like people try try to kind of put us in one sort of box. I think MAGA is about being a free thinker and having some common sense.

[Dean Withers]

I hold onto this baseline assumption that although maybe not all humans are rational, all humans have the capacity to be rational to the extent required to unify as a nation politically over such obvious truths.

[Host (John Regalato)]

Hey listeners, just want to remind you

[Dean Withers]

we have episodes of the A Pod

[Host (John Regalato)]

coming out every Sunday, so please consider subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for your support.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

Your next chapter in healthcare starts at Carrington College's School of Nursing in Portland. Join us for our open house on Tuesday, January 13th from 4 to 7pm you'll tour our campus, see live demos, meet instructors and learn about our associate degree in nursing program that prepares prepares you to become a registered nurse. Take the first step toward your nursing career. Save your spot now at Carrington Edu Events for information on program outcomes. Visit carrington. Edu Sci. Spotify. It's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads than they do on social? Let me introduce you to first.

[Shiva Bagheri]

Fans.

[Annette Davis Jackson]

And they're here with me on Spotify. Trust me, I know fans. They don't skip. They stay for hours. They don't move on. They manifest. They're not a demographic group. They're fans. Spotify advertising. You're among fans.