Destiny vs 25 Donald Trump Voters

Summary

Surrounded Podcast Episode Summary: "Destiny vs 25 Donald Trump Voters"

Release Date: July 3, 2025

In this intense and unfiltered episode of Surrounded, hosted by Jubilee Media, political commentator Stephen Bonnell—known online as Destiny—finds himself challenged by 25 Donald Trump voters. The episode delves deep into polarized debates surrounding Donald Trump's fitness for the U.S. presidency, immigration policies, economic strategies, allegations of fascism, and the role of misinformation in the Make America Great Again (MAGA) movement.

---

1. Opening Claim: Trump's Unfitness for Presidency

Stephen Bonnell begins by asserting that Donald Trump is unfit to be the U.S. president, primarily due to his actions surrounding the January 6th Capitol riot.

• Bonnell (01:47): "My first claim is that Donald Trump is unfit to be the U.S. president."

• Trump Supporter 2 (02:10): Questions Bonnell’s stance on January 6th.

Bonnell argues that Trump's refusal to accept the 2020 election results and his actions leading up to January 6th undermine democratic principles. He cites Trump's alleged fabrication of slates of electors and incitement to violence as key factors disqualifying him from office.

• Bonnell (02:15): "I think that Donald Trump was unwilling to accept the results of the elections... a wholly undemocratic thing."

2. January 6th Debate

The conversation intensifies as participants discuss the specifics of the January 6th events.

• Bonnell (03:08): Questions the timing and nature of Trump's calls for peace during the breach.

• Trump Supporter 2 (04:19): Points out Trump's tweets urging peace following the violence.

Bonnell maintains that Trump's rhetoric fueled the unrest, while supporters argue that Trump eventually called for peace after the situation escalated.

• Trump Supporter 2 (04:31): "President Trump never told anyone to break into the Capitol."

3. Immigration and Border Policies

The debate shifts to immigration, focusing on the asylum process and border security.

• Bonnell (21:09): "My next claim is that Harris would be a better president for immigration on the border than Donald Trump."

He criticizes the broken asylum system, arguing that merely building a wall wouldn't address the core issues of asylum claims.

• Bonnell (21:15): "The problem is that our asylum process is completely and totally broken right now."

Supporters defend Trump's immigration policies, emphasizing the need for strict enforcement and questioning the effectiveness of proposed bipartisan solutions.

• Trump Supporter 6 (25:07): "Give ups are individuals that typically their families are typically asylum seekers that they intentionally want to get processed through border control."

4. Economic Policies and Inflation

A heated discussion ensues about economic strategies, comparing Trump's approach to Biden-Harris policies.

• Bonnell (41:05): Highlights Trump's massive budget deficits and tax cuts as potential inflationary factors.

• Trump Supporter 7 (41:08): Claims inflation was low under Trump and attributes current inflation to Biden's policies.

Bonnell counters by linking deficits and tariffs to long-term economic instability, while supporters argue that Trump's policies fostered economic growth and controlled inflation effectively.

• Bonnell (42:00): "Donald Trump was running budget deficits and made large tax cuts, which inherently are inflationary."

• Trump Supporter 7 (43:18): "He [Trump] wants to drill more, which will lower the price of everything."

5. Accusations of Fascism

Bonnell labels Trump as fascist, citing ultranationalism and authoritarian tendencies.

• Bonnell (60:53): Defines fascism as "ultranationalism and authoritarianism."

Supporters vehemently reject these accusations, arguing that Trump's policies are centered on patriotism and national security rather than authoritarianism.

• Trump Supporter 8 (61:33): "Donald Trump doesn’t want to get involved in foreign affairs as far as wars go, and has policies that benefit the United States."

The back-and-forth intensifies as Bonnell provides examples of Trump's attempts to centralize power, such as pressuring the Department of Justice, while supporters counter by highlighting legitimate executive actions and policies.

• Bonnell (63:33): "When Donald Trump didn't like the answer from his attorney general, he tried to direct the DOJ to fabricate claims."

• Trump Supporter 8 (63:39): "Presidents use executive orders all the time."

6. Misinformation and Media Bias

Bonnell asserts that the MAGA movement thrives on disinformation, a claim contested by supporters who argue that misinformation is rampant on both sides.

• Bonnell (102:16): "I think MAGA thrives on disinformation."

• Trump Supporter 5 (102:27): "Your initial claim is false... misinformation is far more rampant on your side."

The discussion touches on various topics deemed misinformation, including election fraud claims, FEMA camp conspiracies, and the portrayal of political opponents.

• Trump Supporter 1 (80:31): "When you talk about the camps, have you seen the conditions with your own eyes?"

• Bonnell (80:31): "No, but I don't have time to verify everything with my own eyes."

7. Concluding Remarks and Attempts at Unity

Despite the fierce debates and personal attacks, some supporters advocate for bipartisan unity.

• Trump Supporter 2 (116:09): "Let’s not just make debate great again. Let’s build it back better."

Bonnell expresses skepticism about the efficacy of such gestures, emphasizing the deep-rooted divisions exacerbated by continuous undermining of institutions and democratic norms.

• Bonnell (119:04): "We are talking ourselves off a ledge... accelerating off of each other faster than we ever have been before."

Supporters, however, believe that respectful debates and understanding different perspectives are crucial for national unity.

• Trump Supporter 2 (120:09): "We can have a respectful policy disagreement without labeling one side as fascist or communist."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Bonnell (02:15): "I think that Donald Trump was unwilling to accept the results of the elections... a wholly undemocratic thing."

• Trump Supporter 2 (04:19): "They weren't being peaceful. Ashley Babbitt had already been shot and killed."

• Bonnell (21:15): "The problem is that our asylum process is completely and totally broken right now."

• Trump Supporter 7 (41:08): "He wants to drill more, which will lower the price of everything."

• Bonnell (60:53): "Fascism would involve ultranationalism and authoritarianism."

• Trump Supporter 2 (116:09): "Let’s not just make debate great again. Let’s build it back better."

---

This episode of Surrounded encapsulates the heightened political tensions and the stark divisions within American society. Destiny confronts Trump supporters with challenging questions, while the supporters defend their beliefs passionately. The discussions highlight the complexities of contemporary American politics, reflecting deep-seated disagreements on leadership, policy, and the nation's future direction.

For listeners seeking a comprehensive view of the debates shaping today's America, this episode offers a raw and unfiltered conversation that underscores the challenges of achieving bipartisan understanding in an increasingly polarized landscape.

Transcript

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't think you know what American values are. I don't think you know what this country was founded or built upon. And I think you guys are obsessed with a cult leader who is taking the entire Republican party off of a cow. Everything he say, he do. Trump is gangsta. Can you give me one thing you don't like about Trump? I love everything about Trump. I know. Because it's a cult. Thank you. It's not a cult. From Jubilee Media. This is surrounded where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreers. Let's get into it. Rated T for teen. Each year, thousands of adults lose their shred. It's an epidemic simply known as shred loss. But it doesn't have to be this way. Because rekindling your shred is as easy as playing the new Tony hawk's Pro Skater 3 and 4. With new parks, cross platform multiplayer, and sick new game modes, we can put an end to shred loss everywhere. Hit the new Tony hawk's Pro Skater 3 and 4 and show the world that the shred's not dead. Pre order Tony hawk's Pro Skater 3 and 4 and play the Foundry demo. You know that one friend who somehow.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Knows everything about money? Yeah. Now imagine they live in your phone. Say hey to experience your big financial friend.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It's the app that helps you check.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Your FICO score, find ways to save, and basically feel like a financial genius.

[Stephen Bonnell]

And guess what?

[Trump Supporter 1]

It's totally free.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So go on, download the Experian app. Trust me, having a BFF like this.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Is a total game changer.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Hey, my name is Stephen Bonnell. Online, I'm known as Destiny. I Debate politics on [e-mail] Destiny Today, I am surrounded by 20 Trump supporters. My first claim is that Donald Trump is unfit to be the U.S. president.

[Trump Supporter 2]

All right, so you say that President Trump is unfit to take the presidency. Why is that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I would say that one of the most important values that we have as Americans is our form of government and things like respecting the peaceful transfer of power. I think that being able to concede when you've lost an election is really important. So I would argue that the events that took place leading up to and on January 6th are in and of themselves, among a whole bunch of other actions, immediately disqualifying for the office of presidency.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, so, Steve, let's talk about January 6th. What happened that day in your mind, and why does that disqualify President Trump?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think that Donald Trump was unwilling to accept the results of the elections. I think that he fabricated Slates of electors in order to have his vice president pick him to be the winner in the capitol building on January 6, even though he didn't have the votes or the evidence to support it. I think that is a wholly undemocratic thing. I think that it is destructive and undermines our democratic process of governance.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Do you attribute the violence on January 6th to Trump?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Largely, yes.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why? I think that Donald Trump had been stoking the flames a year before the election, saying that the election was going to be rigged. I think that Donald Trump stoked all of these claims basically with no evidence. And then I think that he continued to stoke the flames while fabricating them that the election had been stolen, that there was voter fraud. And then he invited people on the day of the certification to telling them that their election had been stolen, their country was being taken from them, they needed to fight like hell or they were going to lose everything. He knew what he was inviting them there for. He knew what he was asking them to do. He knew. Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 2]

He also told them to enter, to go down to the Capitol peacefully and patriotically. Right. What time did protest first go into the Capitol? What time did they first enter the Capitol?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think it was around 10am I think is when the Capitol grounds were breached.

[Trump Supporter 2]

No. 2:11pm no, to declare that's not true. 2:11pm is when protesters first entered the United States Capitol.

[Stephen Bonnell]

There's. There's the grounds that were secured outside, though. Those grounds were breached while Trump was still giving his speech at the Ellipse.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, let's talk about the entrance of the Capitol, because that would be more severe in your mind than simply walking onto the property.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Right.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Can you concede that point?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Probably not. I think they were all really bad.

[Trump Supporter 2]

But okay, well, entering the Capitol. Let's just mark that point to 11. What should Trump have done at that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Point as soon as the Capitol grounds themselves were breached? He probably should have put out a statement on social media telling people that they needed to go home, instead of telling them that Pence had failed them and basically encouraging the violence to continue.

[Trump Supporter 2]

So what if I told you at 2:38pm President Trump tweeted, stay peaceful. He tweeted that to his supporters, stay peaceful. 27 minutes later, he tweeted that after.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Ashley Babbitt, I believe, had already been shot and killed.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, so.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So what does it mean when you tell your people to stay peaceful?

[Trump Supporter 2]

They're not being peaceful. That doesn't mean that 2:38pm 27 minutes after the Capitol had been protesters had entered he said, stay peaceful. Okay? At 3:13 he said law and order.

[Trump Supporter 1]

At.

[Trump Supporter 2]

At 4:17 he posted a video saying, go home now. So what on earth was he supposed to have done? I'm not happy about some of the violence that we saw on January 6, but let's put it in context.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, wait, wait. You just said it. You just said what he should have done. The tweet that he did at 4:17.

[Trump Supporter 2]

No, no, that was the third. The third call.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It was. No, it was the first time that.

[Trump Supporter 2]

He told them to go home, stay peaceful. 27 minutes after the Capitol protested into.

[Stephen Bonnell]

The camp, after Ashley Babbitt had already been shot and killed. They weren't being peaceful. Why are we saying stay peaceful at this point? Pence had already been.

[Trump Supporter 2]

How many doesn't matter.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Red herring, hold on. Do you acknowledge that people broke into the Capitol?

[Trump Supporter 2]

What do you mean by break into the Capitol?

[Stephen Bonnell]

As in smashed. They entered it illegally.

[Trump Supporter 2]

They hundred thousand people were there that day. How many were charged with crimes? 100,000 people there. How many charged with crimes?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Do you acknowledge that people.

[Trump Supporter 2]

How many were charged with crimes then?

[Stephen Bonnell]

How many people in the BLM rights were charged with crimes? This is red herring. It's how many people who.

[Trump Supporter 2]

You said they're violent. How many were there that day? 100,000. How many were charged with crimes? It's the largest FBI investigation history. 1000, 550.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It's not relevant at all.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Have been charged with crimes. How can you say they were all violent?

[Stephen Bonnell]

It's not relevant.

[Trump Supporter 2]

How can you say they were all violent?

[Stephen Bonnell]

The first people that got into the.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Capitol, did they break in January 6th? Your only reason why he's unfit.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Wait, wait. Did the first people into the Capitol break in?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Is January 6th the only reason he's unfit?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Are you unwilling to answer that question?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Is January 6th the only reason I'm unwilling to answer.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You can say, yes, you don't want to answer it and then move on because you know the implications are terrible for you. That's fine if you want.

[Trump Supporter 2]

The reality of the situation is.

[Stephen Bonnell]

The reality of the situation is people.

[Trump Supporter 2]

What is the number one voter for voters?

[Stephen Bonnell]

They delayed the certificate.

[Trump Supporter 2]

What is the number one issue for voters?

[Stephen Bonnell]

They delayed the certification of the vote. Did they die? It doesn't. It doesn't your.

[Trump Supporter 2]

The vote was certified. Was it not certified?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Was there a delay in the certification?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Was there not certified?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Was there a delay in the certification? It was because the National Guard showed up and they kicked the people out after Donald Trump was forced to tell them they were going Home after watching them break in for three hours. By your own admission.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Let's have a productive conversation.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, we're not having a productive conversation because we're not answering my questions.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Let's keep going. Okay.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah. I asked you a very simple question. The first person that got into the Capitol who wasn't allowed in, how did he get in?

[Trump Supporter 2]

They walked into the Capitol.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, they broke in with a riot shield that he'd stolen from an officer.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay. And that makes President Trump unfit for office.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You acknowledge that that happen. Happened. Are we living in the same reality right now?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Do you acknowledge that there was violence on January 6th? I acknowledge that there's 100,000 specific claim. 1500.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You know what one plus one is?

[Trump Supporter 2]

I do.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What is one plus one?

[Trump Supporter 2]

I think it's two.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, okay. Good, good, good. Okay, okay, we can answer this math. Is racist person the first person that got into the Capitol building, How do they get in?

[Trump Supporter 2]

You are arguing that Trump is unfit.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Do you know what two plus two is?

[Trump Supporter 2]

I. I.

[Stephen Bonnell]

4. Who is the first person into the Capitol building? How did he get in? Why not just say he broke?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Is your entire argument about January 6, yes or no?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, my biggest argument right now is that conservatives are delusional and they don't exist in the same reality that we must.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Why must you attack 75 million voters?

[Trump Supporter 1]

Pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Thank you. Yeah, thanks.

[Trump Supporter 3]

So you don't think Donald Trump is fit for office based on January 6.

[Stephen Bonnell]

However.

[Trump Supporter 3]

However, we have to admit that January 6 was compromised. There were patriots and there was antifa.

[Stephen Bonnell]

There were people who.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Yes, there were.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Actually.

[Trump Supporter 3]

I have video of it. Don't argue. Don't argue me, Because I actually have video of people who are on the ground who. I have video of people in black block getting dressed up in MAGA gear.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay. And according to 1420. First of all, you don't have the video. But let's see how long.

[Trump Supporter 3]

I do have the video.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It's the first person to break into the Capitol. Was it antifa?

[Trump Supporter 3]

It wasn't antifa person. Yes, it was.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You're wrong.

[Trump Supporter 3]

And it's actually. If you read Andy NGOs book about antifa, I'm not ready. It actually talks about how they use the premise of a broke window to then allow other people to come in. Because people are a mass. They're a group. They're like herd of cows. And when there's a broken window, they don't see anything wrong with walking into a building. If the window's already broken. They.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I thought conservatives with a podium one ordered. You were outside somebody's house and you saw somebody breaking out.

[Trump Supporter 3]

This example is even continued through BLM and the riot.

[Stephen Bonnell]

We're not talking about BLM right now, although I'm glad It took us 40 seconds.

[Trump Supporter 3]

It's not pattern age 2020 is the same. It happened in January 6th where we had innocent people moving into a facility that they didn't know that was wrong because the doors were already open.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So you're already. They were broken glass on the floor. There was doors that were being broken into.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Yes. By.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Everybody knew when they were going as.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Maga were not maga.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You have. So were all of the indictments and the convictions for people like Enrique Tario, for Stuart Rhodes, all these people that have been directly involved. All the video footage of which one.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Of these people was his commander. Name one of the commanders of the insurrection.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Enrico Tario was the CEO of the Proud Boys. Stuart Rhodes.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Is he a commander? Is he a commander in the.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know what their official military.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Named the lieutenant in the Insurrection.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why do I have to name the Insurrection?

[Trump Supporter 3]

An insurrection is going to have people like commanders, generals, captains, people.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, it doesn't need to. The problem had a leadership structure. If you'd like, you can go and read the indictments. You can find the structure.

[Trump Supporter 3]

There was no leadership structure. It can't be an insurrection if there is no leadership structure. You can't even name one of Donald Trump's commanders in this.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know. They're all listed in the. I already gave you the CEO of the Proud Boys. They're the ones that broke in, made.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Four tweets, and those four tweets didn't even make it out of his. His sphere because they were immediately suppressed by the media.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They weren't. That is where they were deleted.

[Trump Supporter 3]

They were deleted. You can buy Twitter. He brought them out on stage on his town hall and said, look, here are the tweets that you deleted. How do you explain that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Other than the fascist system. Yeah. The calls for peace came three hours.

[Trump Supporter 3]

No, they.

[Stephen Bonnell]

While he Wait. So do you wait. Do you acknowledge. Do you acknowledge that Donald Trump sat in his room for three hours before he told people to go home watching the violence unfold? You won't answer a question.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Donald Trump gave a speech.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't care.

[Trump Supporter 3]

You don't care about the fact.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know. I'm the one. I'm asking a very simple question. You can't answer. I can answer Your question? If you answer my question, do you acknowledge that he sat for three hours?

[Trump Supporter 3]

No, he didn't sit for three hours because he gave a speech during those three hours?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No. @ the very end, he went. After the Ellipse speech was done, he went back to the White House, and then he sat in a room with a Diet Coke and he watched the violence.

[Trump Supporter 3]

How do you know this?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Because it's accounted for by, like, testimony.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Were you there?

[Stephen Bonnell]

How do you know what's happening at the border? What's happening in China? Are you there? What do you mean?

[Trump Supporter 3]

Actually, this gentleman is actually.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Hold on, I'm sorry. Is your claim that the only way that you can know something is if you personally know.

[Trump Supporter 3]

You're making these claims that he sat there.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm making this claim based on hundreds of hours of deposition testimony by people that have been in front of a number of courts, in front of the J6 committee, in front of the media, in front of the. There are so many different people that are willing to testify to all of this.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seats.

[Trump Supporter 4]

So I think that, you know, we've been talking about January6. I'll be the first to say that. And I think a lot of people here would agree that there were bad actors that day. I am someone who comes from a family of law enforcement, family of military, so I believe in law and order. And so I do believe that there were people on that day who took things way too far. And I think most Republicans understand that. From people that I had talked to on the ground, I think that the media blew it up into something bigger than it was. Again, I'm not saying that people who broke into the Capitol shouldn't have, but I do believe that there's a lot of people who are misled. You know, there's evidence that's coming out with all the tapes that are coming out from January 6th showing police officers were actually escorting people through the hallways. So to say that every single person who entered that building is, you know, a criminal. I think a lot of people.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Just to be clear, that's never been. My claim that every single person entered was the building is such a boring and uninteresting. I would never waste my time making it okay. The reality was, I do agree with you on your fundamental. There were a lot of people that were misled. I do agree with that. And I think that Donald Trump was behind that misleading the entire time the. The people were there because he was tweeting out at them. Saying come here for a historic protest. It was obvious what the protest was gonna be. They were protesting the certification of the vote. And what happened.

[Trump Supporter 4]

President Trump never told anyone to break into the Capitol. President Trump has always run on a campaign of law and order and to respect his police. Okay, where has he. Where's your evidence of that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

The whole plot on January 6 was to break the law to have Mike Pence choose him to be the president. What.

[Trump Supporter 4]

At what point did President Trump tell people to break into the Capitol?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, no, no. When he wanted Pence to choose him to be the president.

[Trump Supporter 4]

No, no, no. But, but talking about breaking law. Breaking the law.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's. That's breaking the law. The law was the Electoral Count Act. He wanted to break that law.

[Trump Supporter 4]

What you're saying is that you had. That he was inciting an insurrection. Was. He was inciting an insurrection and telling people to.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Basically people they needed to fight like hell or they were going to lose their country.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Ok, how does that have anything to do with breaking into the Capitol?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yes, let me just let. So just to be clear. So he told people to go to J6 because it would be a historic something, a historic event. When they all got there and they showed up at his speech at the Ellipse for an hour, he riled them up, telling them he's gonna lose their. They're gonna lose their country, that they're trying to steal it from you, that you fight like hell. Giuliani was just on there before saying trial by combat. He said all these things and then all these people, he said, we're gonna march down Pennsylvania. They all march to the Capitol.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Is there anything wrong with protesting outside Penn.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm just asking, like, was the fact that there was a break into the Capitol and for the first time in US History, the vote certification was delayed. Was that just a coincidence? I just want to know that before you ask a bunch of random question. Was that, was it just a coincidence that a break in happened and the vote was delayed?

[Trump Supporter 4]

Was that a coincidence because people broke into the Capitol. That can't be blamed on President Trump. He's.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So it was a coincidence.

[Trump Supporter 4]

President Trump.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Can you say that President, President Trump.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Has always ran on law and order and for people. And yes, there were. There were bad act, there were bad actors. But moving. Let's move to the service.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Crazy, right? You're nothing about. Okay, in 2006, your family is in 2000.

[Trump Supporter 4]

In 2006, in 2016, I've already said that there were bad actors. In 2016, Democrats questioned the election of President Trump?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yes, they did Sheila Jackson. Sheila Jackson concede. He's not going to answer this question. Sheila Jackson won't answer it. I'm going to ask you.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Sheila Jackson and another like two other Democrats had spoke and said that they were going to question and to hopefully delay the certification in 2016 when President Trump was election and when did Hillary Clinton see.

[Stephen Bonnell]

And look, the answer is that night, right? The answer is that night. Was the certification of the vote delayed? Okay, so the answer is no.

[Trump Supporter 4]

There are questions.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Was there a riot at the Capitol? I'm from here, so none of what you're saying is relevant here.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Yeah, I am from Arizona. I was in the middle of the elections in 2022. I've been there. I saw what happened in 2020. There are serious questions about what happened.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, there aren't. There are. You think? Okay, hold on, hold on.

[Trump Supporter 4]

I'm from Arizona.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I worked in Arizona. I don't care that you worked in.

[Trump Supporter 4]

I worked in poverty.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Every single court case on this failed for good reason. Right?

[Trump Supporter 4]

It's failed on standing.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, that's not true. A lot of them are prostitute evidentiary number one. And number two. Wait, do you agree? Hold on, let me get to my point. Let me get to. You have no point. Yes. Fabricating information time in 4k there is serious 1080p. If that's where they broadcast.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, pause.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Serious questions.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. I just have questions. I'm more. I like to ask people questions. I just, I'm interested in hearing how people think. So when you're talking about the insurrection on January 6, what would you describe during. When Kavanaugh was elected to Supreme Court and you had all the protesters at the Capitol, they were banging on the Capitol doors, they were screaming, they were yelling. How do you feel about that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I would have to know the specifics of the event. I don't recall like any like proceedings being delayed. I don't recall there being a top down call from the president to lead the.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You don't remember that they had to stop the congressional meetings because people were banging on the door and being so loud and trying to break into it.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's what the proceedings were. If they did, then it's bad. Just to be clear. Wait, wait. Just to be clear, this is the difference between me and you, okay. Is that if everything you're telling me is true, it would.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I'm a female. I'm a female.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You're wanting to make America great again.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I'm A female? Yeah, I just put it on. I had a cowboy.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's the difference that I'm talking about. I don't think you're a woman.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I'm a female and you're a male. And it's almost like you're attacking me because I'm a female. Are you anti female? Are you anti female?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Half the time I am. Okay, what I'm saying right now. What I'm saying what I'm saying I'm very honest, but what I'm saying. Yes, I am honest, which is why I'm saying that.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Sweetie, Sweetie, can I ask you another question?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I didn't even answer your first question.

[Trump Supporter 1]

No, you said that you didn't know the specifics. I'm not going to force you into.

[Stephen Bonnell]

A yes or no, I promise. You can't force you to do anything.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, I'm not.

[Stephen Bonnell]

If it happened as you said, I would say that's bad. And you know what? The people involved should be arrested.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You're still yelling, and I agree with you.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm not yelling. I'm not even close to yelling at it. I can if you want me to.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I'm glad you are projecting your voice because I couldn't hear you before. Okay, So I can definitely hear you now.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You could do the maybe hair behind your ears. Go ahead.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You want my hair behind my ears?

[Stephen Bonnell]

If it's inhibiting your ability to hear me speak, yes.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Well, actually, it's because you need the bottom of your. I'm in the medical field, so the bottom of your tongue needs to be clipped. So that's the reason why you have a lisp when you're talking.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Anyway, if you want medical advice, I can do that, but it's better to be private on that. I have another question. So we agree that during the Kavanaugh trials, if people were trying to break into the Supreme Court, it would be a bad thing. I agree with you on that, sweetie. So. And the next thing is, I have a question for you because you also brought up the border and immigration, right?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, I have ski 100, actually. You did?

[Trump Supporter 1]

They can play it back. So anyway, what would you say if the Biden Harris. We have the Biden Harris administration right now. If our border was filled with neo Nazis with tiki torches, what would happen?

[Stephen Bonnell]

You'd probably sell a whole lot more lighter fluid. I don't know. What do you mean?

[Trump Supporter 1]

No? Okay. Our border. Pause. Sorry. You've been voted out by the majority.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I want to talk about the alternate slate of electors and how historically that has Happened before on the Democrat side?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yes, it has.

[Trump Supporter 5]

In 1960, JFK against Nixon ran an alternate slate of electors in case it was overturned in Hawaii. It was eventually overturned in Hawaii. And so then those electors were certified and JFK won the state.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So I'm glad you bring this up real quick because this is one of the biggest pieces of shit talking points that you guys always bring up, and I don't know why. In 1960, two slates of electors were authorized by the state legislature. Both were granted the certificate of ascertainment from the governor because they knew that it was a very close election and they'd authorized a recount. And because that recount was going to go past the December, some mid December date, December 14, for the 2020 election, but some mid December date for when they had to certify their vote. So they said, okay, well, we'll send in both certificates, and then on the day of the counting on January, whenever they would have done the certification of Congress, then they can choose which one was authorized by the state legislature based on the results of the recount. Donald Trump's certificates were not authorized by any state legislature. Do you acknowledge that. Wait, wait, real quick. Do you acknowledge real quick that none of the seven slaves that were signed by Donald Trump, none of those were authorized by any state legislature? Can I answer? You're not going to. No, I am. No, I am.

[Trump Supporter 5]

No, no, no, no, no, no. They weren't certified. And why? It's because fraud wasn't found. It wasn't proven in court.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, you're lying. You're lying. They. Wait, you're saying fraud was found? No, you're lying because those legislators, what.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Do you, what do you say?

[Stephen Bonnell]

My line? They're lying because none of those alternate slates were arranged by the state legislatures. They were arranged by Trump and his criminal coconspirators. None of the state legislatures, none of the state governors authorized those slates of electors.

[Trump Supporter 5]

What's wrong with that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

It's illegal, number one. And number two, what law? What law says that in you have laws that are governing how you're supposed to transmit.

[Trump Supporter 5]

What law?

[Stephen Bonnell]

What law? Do you want me to give you the specific statutes in Georgia, Arizona, New Zurich. I don't know them off the top of my head. If you want, you can. Okay, so then that's a baseless claim. It's not a baseless claim. Chesbrough and Eastman, you can't provide me a specific law because I can't give you the state statute. Yeah, if you can't give Me a specific law. Then why should I believe you?

[Trump Supporter 5]

There's no justification for that. You have to provide evidence for that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Hold on. On the contrary. Are you claiming there's no formal process that's codified in the legislature for how to send. Transmit your electoral votes? Do they just do it randomly?

[Trump Supporter 5]

No, of course. I'm saying of course there's laws that are involved, but you can't point to the specific law that says that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That is. I don't know the numbers. Your claim is baseless. It's always crazy to see that you guys will carry water. Even Trump's own people don't deny this because they know that they're dead to rights. Because the emails have leaked, the conversations have leaked, the Twitter posts are there that we can see from accounts. No, no, no. Really? What did I just say that was wrong? One thing that I just said that was incorrect. You're giving up three.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Because I'm pressing you on.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, I'm not. You're not pressing. Yeah. Y.

[Trump Supporter 1]

At all.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah. You're getting up. Floundering. Dude, you're like a Magikarp. You. No idea what you're talking about.

[Trump Supporter 5]

You have to result to personal insults. That's when you know you're losing.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You already said that. I was lying. You can't name a single thing I'm incorrect about. I can name multiple things you've been incorrect about. You were incorrect. Now you're not letting me get at work. I think.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I think you're just speaking for yourself. You're making yourself look foolish.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, go ahead. But. Okay.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Yeah, I mean, there's 10 seconds.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Go. Give me your hardest claim again.

[Trump Supporter 5]

It was for the same reason. You can compare the election of 1960-2020. It's the exact same thing. They did that in case there were. In case their cases actually came to fraud, and they found fraud in the election.

[Trump Supporter 1]

That's time. Micah, please return to your seat.

[Stephen Bonnell]

My next claim is that Harris would be a better president for immigration on the border than Donald Trump. All right, so why would Kamala Harris.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Be better than Trump on immigration?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Because I don't know if Trump even knows what's actually wrong with the border. He doesn't know what he's.

[Trump Supporter 2]

What do you mean by that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think that Republicans don't know what is happening right now with the problems with their immigration system. A lot of people think that the issue is with illegal immigration. It's not. The problem is that our asylum process is completely and totally broken right now. And the problem is the only way to rectify that is to change the laws governing, or at least some of the regulations governing the asylum process. And when there was a bill on the table to do so, Donald Trump blocked it to keep the border open for an election issue. But as it stands right now, you could have the biggest, strongest wall in the world with the best guns and all the people manning it. It would make zero difference on illegal immigration. They would still come up and claim asylum, and there's nothing you'd be able to do about it. So do you think there's problems with illegal and illegal?

[Trump Supporter 2]

That's what I'm hearing correctly.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, it's different classifications of immigrants. But, like, asylum seekers aren't technically illegal immigrants, even though Republicans call them that when they're doing the asylum seeking process and millions of people are here waiting to hear their case. Technically, that's all legal, which is an issue. Okay, but why would Kamala Harris be better than Trump? He said she understands it better. I think everybody understands the issue, but.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I think the Democrats and Republicans, at least the establishment, they don't want to fix the issue.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, but if they. So I don't think everyone understands the issue. So every single person sitting here doesn't believe me when I just said that the laws on the books and the asylum process are the main issue. They think it's just people illegally crossing the border. Right. The reason why I think that the Democrats would do something is because.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Because they're not enforcing laws on the boat.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They are enforcing people that shouldn't be. They are enforcing the issue. They're enforcing them. Yeah, but there are people that are.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Illegal here and they're not being sent back.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I mean, that's a. That's a whole other deportation. So they're not enforcing law, then. Well, who's they?

[Trump Supporter 2]

The government.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Which one? The state governments or the federal government? All them. Well, the federal government doesn't have the resources to go in and try and find every single potential illegal immigrant in the United States. There's a whole bunch of. Well, we just sent how many billions to Ukraine? Like, we have the money.

[Trump Supporter 2]

We can hire people.

[Stephen Bonnell]

There's a lot of people in this country, so it can happen. So the majority of, like, 80% of the aid we send to Ukraine is in the form of, like, used weapons and stuff. But secondly, it's just a matter of. Even if you say we have the money for it, I mean, we would have to appropriate the funds for it and everything else to do it. Like, it's not a matter of simply saying, like, oh, we're gonna triple the size of the DHS or ICE or whatever to do. But so now you're saying. So I understand. So you wanna be tough on immigration. Right.

[Trump Supporter 2]

And you think Kamala Harris can be tough on immigration?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Just generally speaking, like she's gonna crack down on it. Deport illegal, send them home. I don't know. I don't even. I'm not necessarily. I'm not talking about being tough on or deporting. I'm just saying that to fix the issue we have right now, which way? Coming in and claiming asylum.

[Trump Supporter 2]

So to fix we gotta coming in.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So we need to. Well, no, no, the issue is we need to stop the asylum process or we need to figure out a way to make that better. Right, but there's multiple things that need to be fixed. It's a multifarious issue.

[Trump Supporter 2]

And Kamala Harris originally says that isis, the kkk.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seats.

[Trump Supporter 6]

So I just wanted to briefly talk about. You're talking about the Senate bill that failed the House.

[Stephen Bonnell]

House.

[Trump Supporter 6]

What is your argument with that? Because as far as my knowledge with this bill, it was $118 billion. That was the financial standing within this bill. Within that $60 billion of that 118 billion was going to go towards Ukraine. Only 20, I have the chart with me. Only $20 billion was going to go towards the border. $10 billion was going to go towards Gaza. $14 billion was going to go towards Israel. This Senate bill was a bad bill, first off. And second off, it was just a disguising bill to give more money towards Ukraine. So you talk about the bill.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's so just as a real quick thing. So these, so this is the argument that was floated initially, but the problem is they tried to reintroduce this bill on its own and it still failed.

[Trump Supporter 6]

But the bill itself was written poorly. Within the bill they're going to cap was the average weekly Immigration is at 5,000. That's still way too many people.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Do you know what it's capped at right now?

[Trump Supporter 6]

What is it capped at?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Nothing. That's why it was a good idea.

[Trump Supporter 6]

5000 is still way too much. Why don't they cap it out less?

[Stephen Bonnell]

What they allowed, they allowed us to do. What they allowed it to do is it allowed it to say if there were too many people coming in, they could put a two week moratorium and completely shut down people that were coming to the country to seek asylum. But that was one that would have allowed. Right now they doing their Job.

[Trump Supporter 6]

These are for individuals.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They are doing their job.

[Trump Supporter 6]

These are the individuals that are not or that are seeking asylum. Do you know how many individuals that seek asylum actually file their paperwork for asylum? Well, if you're coming here, no, it's less than half.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You're coming here to get a slip.

[Trump Supporter 6]

They use asylum as an excuse. The process which comes with people that come for asylum. The easiest and most, I guess, used process. They come typically through San Diego or Arizona. They put these individuals on a freight train, send that train to New York. They house them typically at the Roosevelt Hotel. Other hotels in New York are also being used. Then they give them an identification bracelet that has a number, basically like Nazi Germany.

[Stephen Bonnell]

All of this is fine.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Please let me finish talking. I'm respect. It doesn't matter. I'm respecting you. Have some respect.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, let's talk about the asylum process.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Okay.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Right. If Democrats wanted to allocate more money to the judges to process the claims faster, to allocate more money to border security to make sure people were coming in illegally and then to be, be able to put a moratorium if too many people were coming in, wouldn't all of these things help?

[Trump Supporter 6]

If only less than 50% of people that are actually coming for asylum are filing their paperwork. None of that matters. We should be serving.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Oh, you're getting a slip to go to court for an asylum judge if you're not filing your paperwork.

[Trump Supporter 6]

What I'm saying is these people are using asylum as an excuse to get to America to use our resources. Do you know how much money that we've spent? So there's two different types of immigrants there. Well, two different types of illegal immigrants. There's gotaways and there's give ups. Do you know what each one is?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Catch and release versus so give ups.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Give ups are individuals that typically their families are typically asylum seekers that they intentionally want to get processed through border, through border control. Gotaways are typically criminals, which there's 14,000 murderers right now that are within our country coming through the border godaways alone, which are typically criminals. We are spending $450 billion a year just to support these criminals that are coming through through the godaway process.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, so all of this is great, but it returns me back to my other question. If people are doing this by abusing the asylum process, it feels like a bill would have helped and Donald Trump has done nothing.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Because before we can have any type of bill that basically funnels down asylum versus got aways versus give up versus criminals versus all that, you need to have a secure border.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, but let's say that was not going to help.

[Trump Supporter 6]

That was not going to help in the securing of the border.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Let's say you secure the border 1 trillion okay feet tall on the wall and everything. Okay. Everybody else comes up and they still do the exact same asylum claiming process.

[Trump Supporter 6]

What do you mean everybody comes up?

[Stephen Bonnell]

As in you go to a port of entry and you say, hey, I'm here to claim asylum.

[Trump Supporter 6]

If you have a closed border that has a stricter process for whoever's coming through. Which one of those processes which was extremely effective was our Remain in Mexico Act.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So it was effective.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Yes, it was. The Biden administration revoked that act as well as 94 executive orders that Trump installed during his administration. There was a reason that our border had a 50 year all time low. And I want to ask you a question. Let me ask you a question, please. Do you condemn. Do you condemn your olds? Yes or no?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Two.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Yes or no?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Number two.

[Trump Supporter 6]

He doesn't. Do you condemn four year olds being.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Obviously I would condemn. I'm not going to play this game.

[Trump Supporter 6]

You condemn. You condemn. Lincoln Riley's murderer came in and murdered her number two who was coming through an illegal got away process.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't care how they got here.

[Trump Supporter 6]

You condemn the 321,000 missing children right now that are we cannot find at the border.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't even think that number is real.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Yes, it is. 321,000 legal children.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Do you understand?

[Trump Supporter 6]

I'm giving you facts right now that are presented through ice, that are presented female.

[Stephen Bonnell]

How do you have a security, Homeland security comprehension of the issue? It's just numbers. You're just regurgitating it.

[Trump Supporter 6]

The comprehension of the issue.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm asking you a very simple question. Let's say that you secure the border. How does it help the asylum process.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Get people amped up? People are dying, kids are being trafficked.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm asking you a simple. Drugs are coming through.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Fentanyl is at an all time high.

[Stephen Bonnell]

90% of the fentanyl in this country comes in through legal people. It's not always trafficking illegals. Yes, it is.

[Trump Supporter 6]

During the Biden administration, fentanyl, an average yearly pound of fentanyl is 15,000. It's exceeding 15,000. During the Trump administration it was less than 25.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's more numbers that have nothing to do with.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Exactly.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It's just random numbers from that. No, you have. No, you don't have understand the issue. Yes, I know. They're facts, facts. People dying.

[Trump Supporter 6]

All you're concerned about is trying to be right.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm trying to die differences.

[Trump Supporter 6]

I want to care about the problem.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You don't. You don't. If you really.

[Trump Supporter 6]

I don't.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You don't care. You don't give a.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Would I not care?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Because you're supporting the president that blocked the bill that would have passed the problems. You don't give a about it.

[Trump Supporter 6]

President that kept our borders secure, the.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Riley's or the Lincoln Riley's and all these people getting killed. You're thinking, yes, it's an election issue, which is what Donald Trump thought when he blocked the bill.

[Trump Supporter 6]

You're saying I. So you're saying I was excited. Like how you were excited that Corey was shot.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You're excited. You are excited when a person dies to an illegal immigrant, but when something goes to get done about it, you champion Trump when he blocks the bill.

[Trump Supporter 6]

The bill was a bad bill, period.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Really? What legislation did Donald Trump pass in his four years as president?

[Trump Supporter 6]

He had closed borders. He had the Remain in Mexico Act.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Remain in. It doesn't sound like a bill. Remain in Mexico, by the way, was responsible for keeping like 10,000 immigrants away a year, which is basically nothing. Idaho 42 is Covid. He gets no credit for that.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Next Idol 40 title 42 allowed law enforcement.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Title 42 is gone. There's no Covid.

[Trump Supporter 6]

It wasn't Covid specific.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What do you think Title 42 was?

[Trump Supporter 6]

Title 42 allowed law enforcement to process illegals that were coming through. Now they've revoked that. If a sheriff or police officer say there's a murderer that comes through illegally, if a police officer tries to process that guy and get him, the police officer is going to be charged with kidnapping, not the murderer. The murderer is just going to get away with this stuff. You can't own up to the facts that are actually happening of the criminals that are coming through, if someone is truly coming into this country fleeing, say it's Venezuela fleeing a South American country or any country, that their life is truly at stake. Everybody here has a heart for them.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, you don't.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Yes, we do.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You're championing.

[Trump Supporter 6]

How dare you say that my family were immigrants.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Hold on. So how can you say that in your world, in your ideal world, if somebody was escaping one of those countries and coming to the border, you're saying keep them in Mexico until we process them. Where's the compassion there?

[Trump Supporter 6]

Mexico is 10 times safer than the country that they're coming.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You think that the border towns that are being overwhelmed by people coming to.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Seek asylum are their own Country.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Oh, there it is.

[Trump Supporter 1]

To protect our own country.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So there's no harm to people coming in.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Jeez.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I'm glad. We agree that there's a problem with the asylum system. And I actually.

[Stephen Bonnell]

We don't agree. I think that. But.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, I'm agreeing with you that there's a problem with the asylum system. I actually think you care. I've been following you for a while. I actually think you deeply care about this issue and how it's affecting the American people. I do believe that. Sincerely, what is the. For the tens of millions of folks who are gonna watch this video, just what is asylum as a process represent to you? What does it mean to qualify legitimately for asylum?

[Stephen Bonnell]

To legitimately qualify for asylum? There's, like, official characteristics for it, but basically the place that you're fleeing, you're being persecuted for some characteristic or trait that we think that you obviously shouldn't be persecuted for. And you're facing, like, severe threats to your existence. And so you have to flee the country, and then you're basically coming to the United States saying, like, I'm basically stateless. I can't go back to my home. Like, me or my family's at risk. And can you basically take me in and me become a citizen in that way? Basically.

[Trump Supporter 2]

That's exactly right. You're fleeing racial, religious, ethnic persecution. Absolutely. Poverty wouldn't count as asylum.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It's a fact.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Poverty doesn't count. You have to be fleeing a particular type of persecution. If poverty is a coincident factor there, then. But the persecution is key.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Sure. I'm gonna. I'm gonna hesitantly agree with you, but I like. Like, let's say you're facing poverty in, like, Syria, where it's like a collapsed state. Then it's like, I can say that being different. But in general, yeah. If you're just poor, you probably shouldn't be able to come here and seek asylum for that. Absolutely.

[Trump Supporter 2]

And so that's why 90% of asylum claims are rejected. Let's talk about remain in. Brought up that you think it was a failure. It seems, yes.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why is that one? I think there were a lot of lawsuits in the United States that were starting to look promising, I think, in terms of overturning it. I think the ACLU had gotten a victory in the 11th Circuit or the 9th Circuit. And then also because just the number of people that were being kept out from remain in Mexico, I want to say the total number over, I think it was like, three years was, like, 30 or 40,000. It wasn't that many altogether.

[Trump Supporter 2]

But isn't that actually a sign of its success because it was a successful deterrent? Think about it this way, Stephen. If you've got people who are fleeing religious persecution and you got folks who are fleeing poverty, the people who are actually fleeing persecution, they will happily go to Mexico and wait for six months for their case to be heard.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know if that's always the case.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, but I do.

[Stephen Bonnell]

If you're fleeing and you literally have nothing, you're like a destitute family now. You're sitting on, like, a border town, like, waiting months and months. Maybe if you're.

[Trump Supporter 2]

But that's better than religious persecution in Syria, right?

[Stephen Bonnell]

It might be. But ideally in the United States, we could process you almost immediately, and if you have a legitimate claim, we can house you here.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Absolutely. But how do we keep the fraud out of the system? I thought remain in Mexico, wherever you are politically, was a good way to do that. The idea was that if you're actually fleeing persecution in Syria or in East Asia or in Africa, you would be 99% better off in that camp in Mexico, where it is protected, where you have food, where you have humanitarian resources that keeps the fraud claims out. And so to this bipartisan border bill. Well, first and foremost, nine Democrats, including Elizabeth Warren, actually voted against it. So Donald Trump didn't kill it. Donald Trump was opposed to it for the same reasons that many Republicans and some Democrats.

[Stephen Bonnell]

To be clear, would that have passed. Would that bill have passed without Donald Trump telling Republicans not to vote for it?

[Trump Supporter 2]

No, it would not have.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, that's completely and totally incorrect.

[Trump Supporter 2]

What's your proof of that? Listen, let's just talk about the substance of it.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, the proof is that, like, it would have passed. People like McConnell, people like Cruz are literally saying, like, we're not voting on this bill because Donald Trump has told us to pull a plug on it. But the idea was that it was gonna pass.

[Trump Supporter 2]

So what would that bill have done to deter the fraudulent asylum claims that are keeping out legitimate folks who are fleeing persecution?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, I think that right now, the biggest. There's an amalgamation of laws that make it so that because the asylum system is so backed up, I know that if I go to the United States, even if I claim it's total bullshit, I can run in. Run to a port, claim that I'm an asylum seeker, and I know that they can't process me right now. So I get a slip saying, okay, we'll come back to court in a year or two, and it's like, I'm in, and you're done. At that point, you just disappear. Right? But if they could process you, almost immediately you show up and you're like, hey, I'm asylum seeker. It's like, oh, cool, we'll come talk to the judge. You're like, okay, well, me then. The motivation to come in and try to get in fraudulently, I think, dramatically decreases. And one of the big things that the bill helped with was providing a lot more judges that would be allocated for things and a lot more funding for it, etc.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Just to correct that point, there weren't actually judges they were filing. They were funding custom officers who don't have law degrees, who are biased one way, who are more likely to approve asylum claims that might end up proving fraudulent. I think.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Wait, hold on. Who processes the asylum claims? Eventually you have to sit in front of a judge.

[Trump Supporter 2]

No, no, no, no. And just. Just clearly here, customs officers under the bipartisan border bill would be then given authority to process these claims. They don't have law degrees. They aren't judges. Judges typically kick these cases, but in this particular bill by Lankford, it would actually be customs officers.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Customs officers would make the final decision on whether or not a person gets into the.

[Trump Supporter 2]

And that's how you build up capacity. Because you couldn't hire more immigration judges. There aren't enough people in the country to take those.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think you can. I think the issue is that the judge number has been capped since, I think, the 80s or the 60s in terms of how many judges are allowed to hear these claims. So we haven't had more funding that was allocated to actually.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Why not bring back remain in Mexico? It absolutely works, Stephen.

[Stephen Bonnell]

But I don't think it necessarily works, number one, because not that many people were kept out. And number two, even as a matter of policy, I don't know if the idea to the country to the south that you was like, hey, listen, a ton of people coming to asylum, we're gonna go ahead and store them in your country while we wait and process it. I don't know how even Mexico would feel about that. I don't know if the conditions would necessarily be safer for those people either, because I thought that one of the claims that I heard so much from the Tromples was how unsafe all of these border towns had become because of so many people building up there. So why would you want to stick a legitimate asylum seeker there and keep them there? Would you agree that if somebody was coming here to legitimately seek asylum and it was a legitimate case, they would probably be good to take them in and house them immediately.

[Trump Supporter 2]

In an ideal world, absolutely. But we need to also separate those who are abusing the system. Again, 90% of those claims are fraudulent. But let's.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So then, which. So then should we increase the funding to process those claims?

[Trump Supporter 2]

I think the deterrent is better in Mexico. But Stephen, let's agree to disagree. Okay?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Awesome. Great.

[Trump Supporter 5]

My issue with the bipartisan border bill is that it only gets activated on a mandatory basis if there are 5,000 people per day crossing the border. I agree with you that the asylum process is the problem, but that bill also expands protections for asylees or people seeking asylum. The bipartisan border bill, which is a problem. I think that HR2 was much more effective at preventing people abusing the leaks.

[Stephen Bonnell]

HR2 might have been more effective from a conservative standpoint, but that bill was DOA and everybody knew it because Democrats didn't want to vote for it. I don't even know if they would have had Republicans.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Do you think that it would be a win for Democrats if they passed HR2 to like, politically speaking?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Probably not. That bill went much further.

[Trump Supporter 5]

You don't think that it would be good for Joe Biden's image?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, I think that I would have to go back and read it because I think that bill was way more extreme in terms of like processing people. I don't think it was a very popular.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Yeah, it eliminated parole, which I think is a good thing. There are a couple other things like I haven't read.

[Stephen Bonnell]

The bill was doa. There was no popular. There was no chance in hell that was passing anything.

[Trump Supporter 5]

The bipartisan border bill was terrible. Too terrible.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, the bipartisan border bill was terrible. That would have passed less Donald Trump. Right.

[Trump Supporter 5]

But it didn't address the current issue. There's about 1,000.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It did address it. It might not, you could say it might not have addressed it adequately, but it would have been a big. Stephen, in that direction. There are about.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Okay, yeah, right. But the issue would have to get about twice as bad as it currently is. There's about 1,900 people who cross per day currently under the bipartisan border bill on a mandatory basis. The emergency powers could only be activated if 5,000 people crossed over the border daily over a seven day period. Right.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah. But then after that happens, you can shut the border down for two weeks.

[Trump Supporter 5]

And process zero crimes, but you can only the bill. The emergency powers given in the bill can only be used for 270 days of the first calendar year, 225 of the second, and 180 of the third. And in addition to that, if it drops below 70% of that mandatory number, 5,000, which is about 3,750, which is almost exactly double what it currently is, it gets automatically rescinded. The powers go away.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't believe the powers go away.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Yes, they do.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They have the ability to go. How can anybody come in if they're not. If they're processing zero claims.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Wait, what do you mean, if they're.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Processing zero claims once they.

[Trump Supporter 5]

It's not on the basis of claim. It's on the basis of crossers. So five.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, no, but it shuts down asylum claims as well. That was the nice thing about it. We don't have an issue right now with illegal immigrants coming into this country. We have a problem right now.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Absolutely.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I know. Yeah, stay mad because you guys can't read. That's fine. The problem that we have right now is with asylum seekers. I agree with illegal immigrants. I agree with you.

[Trump Supporter 5]

And this bill expanded protections for asylum seekers.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, but it also gave the ability for the border to your argument on arrival.

[Trump Supporter 6]

No.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Two weeks shut down. What is our moratorium right now? And people claiming asylum.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I don't know.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Zero. It's nothing. Right, so this would be better. Definitionally, you said.

[Trump Supporter 5]

You said earlier that like you were talking about. I forget who it was with, like the 5,000 in cap on a mandatory basis or whatever. It's not a cap. That's not a cap on like.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, it's like a seven day rolling average. Yeah, yeah, let me.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Let me finish. It's not a cap on how many people can come into the border. Obviously zero people are allowed to illegally cross the border.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Right, but I'm not illegal. Right. Do you acknowledge that people come in clean. Asylum. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I agree with you.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Let me land my plane. Okay.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Okay. So that's not a cap on how many people can cross the border. Obviously, it's illegal for anybody to cross the border. It's a cap on power.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, pause. Sorry, time's up. Okay, please return to your seat.

[Trump Supporter 5]

It's good talking to you, man. Hey, before we go any further, we want to take a moment to say thanks so much to Straight Arrow News.

[Stephen Bonnell]

For powering the fact checks.

[Trump Supporter 5]

In this video. Straight Arrow News is an app and.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Website that is on a mission to raise the bar on journalism. In a time of media bias and mistrust.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Their team of journalists believe that Unbiased news should be the standard and not just the exception. So they report down the middle with facts, delivering news without bias, miss filter or spin.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Plus, their media miss tool allows you to discover news that's being underreported or not even reported at all by different.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Sides of mainstream media. That's why we are so happy to be partnering with Straight Arrow News. The work they're doing gives us a.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Complete picture of the news straight from our phones and tablets with their app.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Go to san.com surrounded or click the link in the description to check it out. By clicking that link, you're not just.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Supporting this channel, you're also supporting a.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Group of journalists that are raising the bar on news and focusing on serving you unbiased straight facts. Thanks again to Straight Arrow News for partnering with us on this episode. Now, let's get into it.

[Stephen Bonnell]

My next claim is that Donald Trump's economic plans would increase inflation and devastate the economy.

[Trump Supporter 7]

So under the Trump administration, inflation was consistently at 2%. Under Biden Harris, it's 5.5.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What do you think the biggest contributor to the Biden Harris inflation has been?

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, you could say the supply chain, but I would say the bills that they passed, the Inflation Reduction act, had nothing to do with inflation. The only reason inflation's kind of at two and a half now is because they raised interest rates. There's nothing to do with what they've done.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, so what was the huge event that probably triggered a ton of inflation because of all the knock on effects from it? There was a really big event that happened. Happened in the past five years. Yeah. Okay, so Covid happened. So if we look at Donald Trump's administration and we look at what he did, he ran massive budget deficits, he did nothing to cut spending, he did giant tax cuts. Right. And he pressured the Fed to keep interest rates.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, Harris adds like a trillion per year to that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, but at least they can argue for why they would have deficits. Right, because they're trying to save us from a massive recession, which more or less they did.

[Trump Supporter 7]

We already hit recession a couple times.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, not really, no.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Yeah, by the letter of the law we have.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, okay. If you want to say that we have that it was a soft landing at worst. Okay. But it's nowhere near as bad as it could have been. But at least they had. They were coming out of an economic crisis they probably had to spend for. Why did Donald Trump run massive budget deficits when he was sitting on a great economy that he inherited from Obama?

[Trump Supporter 7]

It Wasn't a great economy.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It was an amazing economy. The stock markets were posting all time highs for like three or four years before he even came into office.

[Trump Supporter 7]

And the guy even higher under him.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They did, they continued to grow. Yes, but why did he have to run budget deficits to do that?

[Trump Supporter 7]

I mean, his tax cuts actually helped everyone. It helped me as a middle class.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Person, of course, because he did deficit spending. Deficit spending always helps. It gives you more money. Yeah, yeah, but, but how would this ever help inflation?

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, there was no inflation under Trump.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah. Because the economy and everything in the world was growing too. Right. Covid hadn't shut everything down yet. But I'm saying that Donald Trump's administration.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Even his last month in office, that was 1.4%. Biden can't even get that in his best.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, but the. Are we, are we going to cite like the year of COVID as, like these are the.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, yeah, I mean, if you want to be fair to under Covid, the, the last few months on a plane was terrible. So if you wanted to go off that too. But as soon as the country opened back up, they tried to take all this credit of all these jobs that were just bounced back.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Sure. And I wouldn't say, I think that's pretty stupid to say that we created this many jobs, whatever. So I'm not giving them credit for that necessarily. Of course they would. But I'm just saying that when we look at just for inflation, everything that Donald Trump talks about when he wants to come back in his next term seems like things that would just be inflationary. He wants to tariff everything.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, he wants to drill more, which will lower the price of everything.

[Stephen Bonnell]

We already are a world producer in energy. I don't know how much drilling more is gonna help. But I mean, he also want, I don't even know how we'll have the people to drill because he wants to increase tariffs on every single product in the world. World.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, it's just stuff made out of America. What, which will benefit.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, but if it's made out of America, then what? Then who's going to be drilling when we're all busy like making clothes and making shoes and making the most basic fundamental products, not all of us, obviously.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Stuff still come from overseas.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why he wants to tariff all of it at fifty to a thousand percent.

[Trump Supporter 7]

No, I didn't say a thousand. He said 100.

[Stephen Bonnell]

He said he said a lot of numbers in that Bloomberg interview yesterday. I think he said a thousand for some of them. But yeah, he says he wants to pair it. He said he wants to have everything. He said 10 or 20% was too low. He wants to manufacture everything at home.

[Trump Supporter 7]

And then when you. When Harris went on the View and said, would you do anything different than Biden? She said, no. Can't think of anything. No matter how people are struggling, struggling how the world is, she can't think of one thing she would do well.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I mean, the United States is ahead of the rest.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Now.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Stephen, that was very inflationary. Okay. That was very high.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, hold on. To be clear, I'm not a huge fan of just like stimulus stuff because I think it has a lot of inflationary pressures. I think forgiving student loan debt, I think would also be massively inflationary in a lot of bad ways. But none of those even come close to the total economic destruction that would be wrought on this country with across the board, universal tariffs to every country in the world.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Were you concerned by the tariffs in the first term?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yes.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay. Why didn't we see the inflation in the first term under Trump under these tariffs that you're so concerned about?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Because I think that raising prices and everything can kind of be masked through the allocation of money to other assets, especially when the economy is growing. So the world economy is growing, right? Because a lot of people can buy things, a lot of money can transfer to a lot of different places. Inflation has to do with dollars chasing supplies of goods, basically. And if the supplies continue to grow at a really high rate, you can probably afford more deficit spending. But the issue is that I don't think that Donald Trump was intelligently saying, like, well, I can probably afford it ever since here because of the economy. I think he just likes to spend, spend speaking, because everybody does. And I don't think that Trump would have the ability to rein it in, as he said multiple times in his Bloomberg interview yesterday. But also, like the big event that was contributing to inflation over the Biden administration was probably Covid. And a lot of the knock on.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Stuff from COVID American rescue plan, for example, the unemployment rate had already been cut in half. 100 million people had immunity to the vaccine to the virus, and yet we put $2 trillion of heroin into the economy.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That the United States is also outperforming every single other G7 OECD country when it comes to metrics like inflation and how our economy is doing as well. So I think we probably made the right choice there. Right?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, Stephen, I'll say.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Wait, would you say that we made the right choice for, like, the American.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I disagree. I disagree.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So which country should we have acted like?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, I'm going to hold ourselves to the American standard, which is to always to do the best thing and not to compare ourselves to others.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, so we are outperforming everybody else, but you think we should be doing even better?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, Stephen, if I'm the best alcoholic in the room, I'm in the wrong room. I don't want to be the best of the worst. I want to be the best compared to my own standard.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, but to be clear, you're talking about a world where every single person apparently alcoholic. Yeah, Stephen, I'm just saying that you're trying to point to an economic policy that you can't point to in any other country in the world.

[Trump Supporter 2]

And we measure things 8.5 million Americans.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Relational to other countries. And the fact that we did.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I haven't interrupted. I haven't interrupted you. With all respect, I haven't interrupted you.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Eight and a half million people are working multiple jobs to keep up with inflation. You've got 7 million prime working age men who are not in the labor force. 37% of Americans say that their children's life will not be better than theirs. This economy is hurting a lot of people right now. Do you accept that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No. What's Donald Trump gonna do to improve that economy?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, let's talk about that for a moment. Let's just talk about that for a moment. With all sincerity.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Sure.

[Trump Supporter 2]

What problem does tariffs try to address.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Stephen, in Donald Trump's world, or what? That's a very general question.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Objective speaking. When you look at tariffs, what does it try to solve for?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Tariffs can be levied for a variety of different reasons. The two most common reasons that are given is that, one, it can be foolishly employed to try to protect an industry. So you would tariff other people to make your own industries more competitive. These require across the board tariffs, so not specific ones. And then a second reason could be for issues relating to, say, like national security. So, for instance, I want to tear off these people's abilities to manufacture microchips or steel, not because I think we'd be economically better off, but because if we get into war with them, I don't want to be relying on them for process.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I think the latter case makes a lot of sense, by the way, if you get to war with China. Now, listen, although I would be honest.

[Stephen Bonnell]

About the latter one to say we don't do it for economic reasons, we do it for security reasons. That's fine.

[Trump Supporter 2]

That's absolutely fine. And I agree with you on that. Does China have tariffs on us? Yes. Does Europe have tariffs on US? US Yes. It's not free trade when they're rigging it against us and charging us to send our products over there. So the question is, Stephen, if they're putting tariffs on us, hurting our workers, hollowing out places from Middletown, Ohio to parts of Appalachia, why can't we put in place a deterrent that says, look, if you're going to rig the system against American workers, we are going to level the playing field? We got a real problem in this country. By the way, if this was half real quick, Stephen, I want to just.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Steven, you ask me a question. You asked me a question. Whatever economic plan or however you're talking about using terrorists, sure, I'm fine with that.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Yeah.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Whatever you're saying, that was nothing to do with the Trump administration. What you're saying is you're talking about getting into a tariff war to try to bring tariffs down or to force somebody to engage in negotiations to bring tariff down in order to re enter trade agreements. Kind of like when Donald Trump renegotiated NAFTA into the U.S. mexico, Canada agreement. Absolutely right. But however, you can't just say Donald.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Trump doesn't use the threat of terrorists, bring them to the negotiating table, talking.

[Stephen Bonnell]

About using tariffs to get more people negotiate. He wants, wants to create an autarky. That's his goal. Do you acknowledge that Donald Trump wants us to manufacture everything at home? That's all of his rhetoric. Do you acknowledge he doesn't say no.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Stephen, just one second. He wants us to employ the working men and women of this country to give them a fair shot. Unemployment, losing 100,000 people to opioids every year. We're losing 900 people.

[Stephen Bonnell]

We're already below, we're already below what the employment should be. We're already below 5%.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Stephen. 7 million working age men are not in the labor.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's a great number. I don't know what that number holds. Hold on. Do you acknowledge that?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Hold on, Steven, just one sec. Half of working age men who were not in the labor force are taking opioid painkillers every day. The broken industrial policies of this country.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You think having the manufacturer shoes that aren't being made in China is going to magically get rid of that problem?

[Trump Supporter 2]

No, no, no, Stephen.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Does new balance make in America? Yes or no? Does new balance make in America?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know. For the finally assembly, maybe. Okay, yes.

[Trump Supporter 2]

They do. But here's the thing.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What's the point of that?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Steven, Steven, Steven, Steven.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Do you think that we can manufacture every single good.

[Trump Supporter 2]

We don't think so.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I don't think so.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What is the goal of a thousand or five hundred or whatever? 100,000?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Where are Tesla's made? Where are Tesla's made? Where's the best selling car in America? Made in the world rather, where is it made?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't. When you say here in America. Hold on, what do you mean by that? Every single part.

[Trump Supporter 2]

No, the final assembly. A large.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You understand that yesterday when Donald Trump was doing his interview with Bloomberg, he made fun of that Donald Trump shit on companies like Tesla when he said we do the final assembly here. We could have children do that. It's just throwing together Legos. Donald Trump doesn't like assembly. Donald Trump wants not just the Tesla final assembly here, but all the batteries, all of the steel, every single component of that made in America. Again, your plan sounds great. That sounds like an ordinary, like decent economic plan. Donald Trump's plan is autarky. It's ridiculous.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I'm glad you like my plan.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Thanks. Okay, if you run for president, I'll support it. I appreciate it.

[Trump Supporter 6]

Don't do that.

[Trump Supporter 8]

All right, so if Trump is going to be bad for inflation, why is it that when he left office in.

[Trump Supporter 4]

2021, inflation was at like almost an.

[Trump Supporter 8]

All time low, practically nonexistent, at 1.4%. As soon as he left, that's when inflation started rising with the Biden Harris administration.

[Stephen Bonnell]

If he's going to be bad at.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Inflation, why was the economy so good his whole four years? If you look at all the polls from any news site, even cnn, which is more left leaning, you'll see that people, all people in general, say that.

[Trump Supporter 2]

They trust Trump more with the economy.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Trump do that made the economy so good in those four years.

[Trump Supporter 8]

The question should be what did he not do?

[Trump Supporter 2]

He didn't do anything.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Exactly. I agree. He didn't do anything. He didn't do anything bad. He did good the entire fight. The economy had been growing ever since Obama brought us out of the end of the 2007 collapse. Again, another Democrat president comes in. Whether it's 2008 with Obama inheriting the housing crisis, or whether it's 2020 with Biden coming in and having to deal with COVID Yeah, he had to come in and spend like crazy. He can't blame everything on Covid. Okay, you can blame a lot on Covid. It was a really big deal. And we are doing better than all the other companies countries right now. I agree. Under Biden. That's true. Yes. Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 8]

And when Trump left office, he was also in the middle of COVID too. And inflation was still at 1.4%. Why is it triple?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why is it Donald Trump spent like the first year of co or the first like month of COVID pretending it didn't exist? I don't know if he was like.

[Trump Supporter 6]

The leader to point to about that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, well, I just don't know like what is, like what's one policy that Donald Trump has given if he comes back into office is going to help inflation? Just one. He's going to tariffs and he's. That makes things more expensive.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Also going to be mining.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seats.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah. Okay, so the Congressional Budget Office in the 1980s reported that 1 to $3 billion billion dollars was spent on illegal immigrants who were coming in and basically feeding off of public services. So what I don't really find appealing.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Is that you get a lot of.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Conversation from the right and the left asking basically everyone except Latinos what they.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Think about this issue.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay. Because it affects us. It affects the fact that we're here, we've crossed legally, and then we're getting our image basically affected by the fact that we have criminals killing Americans. By the way, let me just give you a few names who have died basically at hands of illegal criminals. Lincoln Riley, which people know. Christopher Gad, Travis Wolf.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Alex.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Do you not care about these names? No, I don't care about these names. Oh, you don't? Oh, I'm good. That's. If we're having a policy discussion. No. Do you want me to start naming off like every black person that gets killed by a police officer or whatever? If you want to do the BLM tactics, I mean, we can do that, but like, no, I don't care. A 12 year old Travis Scott, a baby by 2 years old, all death, all murder. You have a son, right? But what is the. You have a son, right? So if your son was killed at the hands of an illegal immigrant who was a criminal, you would care about the southern border? I would also care if he was killed by a 15 year old. I would kill. If he. I would kill a guy in a school. So we shouldn't. What do you mean, what's the point? Wouldn't you be there advocating for the southern border to be closed? You would be. You think that my son has been killed in a school shooting or by an illegal immigrant. What do you think?

[Trump Supporter 5]

So you don't want to answer the.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Question if your son was killed as a victim at the hands of an illegal criminal? By the way, there is a hit. There is a watch list of many people, terrorist groups and organizations that have been coming into our country. And it is very well known. Look, let me tell you.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, okay. I'm sorry. You've been voted out by the majority.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Oh, okay.

[Trump Supporter 3]

So as everybody's already discussed, tariffs are actually beneficial to American manufacturing. Ivanka Trump brought Louis Vuitton manufacturing back to America, something that was considered unheard of.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why do you think every single economist hates tariffs?

[Trump Supporter 3]

Why do you think? Why do you hate American manufacturing?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I hate America. I don't know what kind of a question.

[Trump Supporter 3]

No, because manufacturing jobs actually bring people out of poverty. So what is your problem with manufacturing in America?

[Stephen Bonnell]

My problem is in America, because we're such an educated country and because we're such an advanced country, we can do more with our manufacturing than making the most bare bones things that other countries might be better suited towards creating. The reason why Elon Musk came to America. So you do Tesla and SpaceX to do baser manufacturing. We can do more. We can do. We can do more complicated.

[Trump Supporter 3]

The lowest rung of our population isn't important enough to actually provide them a job, even if it is a manufacturing job.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They have jobs.

[Trump Supporter 3]

What is the jobs? The ones that are being taken by the.

[Stephen Bonnell]

We have less than 5% unemployment. What are they doing for work?

[Trump Supporter 3]

Taken by the immigrants.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Immigrants? I thought the immigrants were coming here. Not working. Not very well. Something about the policies affecting you. I don't know what.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Yeah, my community is the one who's gonna be affected by the policies that are.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What are you talking about? What policies?

[Trump Supporter 3]

Kamala Harris's policies and Trump's policies. We benefited. My community benefited.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What from what policy? What are you talking about?

[Trump Supporter 3]

Because when you bring in an unskilled labor population, they're gonna compete with American who are also low skilled workers.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Do you think that we have an employee? You don't think. You don't. No, no, no. I just need to get a.

[Trump Supporter 3]

You don't think I can't teach Maria or Juanita to pick up a pair of scissors and groom a dog's hair? Cause I've done that before. And you know what? I can replace anybody. That's called being a low skilled worker. And anybody crossing the border can do that. You don't need a degree, you don't need a diploma to do such.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, but we do have degrees. We have jobs. We are not jobs. America does not have the most productive labor skills because we do manufacturing jobs.

[Trump Supporter 3]

You don't think these low skill jobs are important? You don't think these low skill jobs are important?

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's very sad that you don't care about more in the United States than just base manufacturing. We are the world's most sophisticated economy.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Why should do more based manufacturing have.

[Stephen Bonnell]

50 hours in the day. You can do more than that. Why wouldn't we let other countries.

[Trump Supporter 3]

The reason that manufacturers choose to go out of the country is because America has to pay for things like labor laws, employment, insurance, all these other facets. That's why these big corporations will go to places like China. I have a company called BYD in my backyard that brings in Chinese immigrants and pays them Chinese wages in America. And my representative, Mike Garcia got that organization defunded because federal funding my taxes.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You think it would be better if we pay? So we need to just put a Chinese company in my backyard.

[Trump Supporter 3]

I would rather pay American workers $2.

[Stephen Bonnell]

An hour to make products. Maybe your company should exist in America. Maybe they should go to China and make your company go to China and make the company. That would be better. You should do that. Yes. I'm arguing that American workers can earn more money than you are very sad.

[Trump Supporter 3]

You don't love America.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You are proving you don't love America.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Because you don't want Americans to benefit. You don't want American manufacturing to lift people out of poverty. That is sad.

[Trump Supporter 4]

So we already Talked about inflation.

[Stephen Bonnell]

1.9 under Trump.

[Trump Supporter 4]

I think you guys like to leave out deficit spending which was 8.2 trillion under Biden and 6.7 under Trump.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why was it so much higher under Biden?

[Trump Supporter 4]

You could say during COVID but you could also bring in the tax. The total revenue during Biden and Trump was close to the same and he was spending almost double the amount each year.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They could also. Why was Trump running for these huge deficits? You're not going to ask that question, are you?

[Trump Supporter 4]

Can you repeat the question?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why is he talking about why did. Yeah, because you want to get the next point. Why did Donald Trump engage in massive deficit spending?

[Trump Supporter 4]

Why did Donald Trump engage in massive spending? I don't know the answer that. Can you answer it?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, because he likes to spend. Because it makes the economy look better. Okay.

[Trump Supporter 4]

So the same thing that Biden Harris does.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah. But they haven't had an increase because they're coming in under at an increasing rate. At an increasing rate. Rate to stave off recession.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Okay, then what about the Federal Reserve printing $16 trillion in two years?

[Stephen Bonnell]

What about the Federal Reserve 2021 Federal Reserves monetary policy? Because my point is, you'd like to.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Blame inflation only on Covid, but you don't want to take in deficit spending. You don't want to take in the Federal Reserve printing money.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You also don't want to take in. You want to talk about the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve rates were not only low under Trump, he pressured them to be low. He literally bragged about it in his interview. And he said that when he comes back in, one of his goals is to keep the federal interest rates low. He talked about bringing Jerome Powell into his office and threatening him to keep the rates low. So if you don't like deficit spending, if you don't like the Federal Reserve's monetary policy, if you don't like free money, then it feels like Donald Trump is literally the worst case for you.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Well, wouldn't you say the deficit spending is causing inflation? So doesn't that take more money away from Americans, by your logic?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know if it takes more money away from Americans, but deficit spending can lead to so on.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Higher inflation doesn't take money away from Americans.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It can. It's more complicated than that, but yeah, it can. But I'm saying that deficit spending in and of itself is generally inflationary. But there are reasons why you might want a deficit spend. For instance, it's better to have some inflation than it is to have a recession or full depression. Right?

[Trump Supporter 4]

Okay, yeah, I'll agree with that. Now, you bring up tariffs. Now, why did we extend them under Biden? And then why do we double the tariffs from Canada as well if tariffs are so bad? So when Biden does it, it's okay, but when Trump installs them, they're horrible.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So the issue is, if you're talking about specific tariffs as retaliation because somebody else might be tariffing something that they shouldn't, if they're engaging in that, then that type of thing, as was discussed earlier, I think is okay. The reason why a lot of them came in under Trump and they weren't rescinded under Biden, is because once somebody's put a tariff in place and then a counter tariff comes up, you have to engage in a negotiation to bring them down. You can't take yours down unilaterally because you're just going to screw it.

[Trump Supporter 4]

So do you think all economists agree that 10% tariff is bad?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yes.

[Trump Supporter 4]

You should look at A Study 2019 by Jenny Tang, Brent Newman.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I would never look at a single.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Study on that increase in inflate or that's time.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Please return to your seat.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Thank you. My next claim is on WhatsApp.

[Trump Supporter 1]

No one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So whether you're sharing the streaming password.

[Trump Supporter 1]

In the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Become a podcast, your personal messages stay.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Between you, your friends and your family.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. She's made up her mind to live.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Pretty smart, learn to budget responsibly right from the start. She spends a little less and puts more into savings. Keeps her blood pressure low and credit.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Score raises boring money moves. Make kind of lame songs, but they.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Sound pretty sweet to your wallet.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Brilliantly boring since 1865. Donald Trump is a fascist.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Destiny, can you define fascism?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I would say the two big points for fascism would be ultranationalism and authoritarianism.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Okay, what is authoritarianism?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I would say that authoritarianism is trying to centralize as much power in like a structural sense into one part of the government. And then in a broader sense, it usually means undermining a bunch of liberal values that you would finally say in the first place.

[Trump Supporter 8]

So then how is it that every part of the government which accrues more and more power to itself every single year aren't a bunch of fascists because.

[Stephen Bonnell]

The government gaining power doesn't necessarily make it fascist. You could say there might be governmental overreach.

[Trump Supporter 8]

I'm still not even sure what is fascist here. Destiny, what is fascist? I said Giovanni Gentili we have definitions of what fascism is. We have third partyists who are out there right now who are fascist. They claim Trump is a populist. Can you tell me why they're wrong and why you're right that he's a fascist?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, I would have to know their exact reasons for why they reject Trump being a fascist. But I would say that Trump is fascist.

[Trump Supporter 8]

These are your claims. These are your claims.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm not claiming anything that those people said. My definition for fascist. I gave the two parts. I can explain them what you want.

[Trump Supporter 8]

So let's start with ultra authoritarian.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why is it ultra nationalist and authoritarian?

[Trump Supporter 8]

What is ultranationalism?

[Stephen Bonnell]

So I think ultra nationalism is when you engage in a hardcore protectionist ideology that usually involves shutting yourself out from the rest of the world. That could be in forms of international affairs like military conflicts. And it could be in the forms of ultra protectionist in terms of trade and shutting down things like immigration in order to protect your own native peoples. Oftentimes there's a heavily racialized element, but you might not have.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Okay, well, Donald Trump, you're not saying has a heavy racialized element, are you?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm ambivalent. I don't really care that much. I think that he qualifies or satisfies the term without that, but.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Okay, so let's dive into this real quick. If you have a president who doesn't want to get involved in foreign affairs as far as wars go, and has some type of policies which benefit the United States over all of the nations, is he a fascist?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Well, I'm still confused as to what makes Trump a fascist.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's because I had two parts of that, and you missed the authoritarian one. What you described there before was just like protection.

[Trump Supporter 8]

But when you said authoritarian, what is he doing, which is accumulating all power to himself?

[Stephen Bonnell]

So he's trying to centralize power in the executive branch of the government and specifically in the presidential part of the government of the executive branch.

[Trump Supporter 8]

How?

[Stephen Bonnell]

How? Donald Trump thinks that he should be able to unilaterally make decisions up and down all of the different departments and offices that exist in the executive branch.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Presidents use executive orders all the time.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It's not an executive order.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Presidents. Presidents unilaterally make decisions all the time.

[Stephen Bonnell]

And they don't.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Yes, they do.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They do.

[Trump Supporter 8]

They use executive orders all the time.

[Stephen Bonnell]

An executive order doesn't mean that you are taking power away from the departments and offices that have been created.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Right. So where'? Where's the fascism here?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Would you like me to give you specific examples?

[Trump Supporter 8]

Yes. Give me the specific example.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Sure. So when Donald Trump didn't like the answer that he was getting from his attorney general because he was trying to direct the Department of Justice to do investigations or to fabricate claims. That would be an example of trying to centralize power just to the president because he's undermining his own department that's been created for him, that's tasked. That's supposed to have some level of independence, that's tasked with doing investigations.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Let me ask you a question. Is the President of the United States commander in chief of the armed Forces of the United States?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I believe so.

[Trump Supporter 8]

You believe so? Unless something's changed, do they have control of the entire military apparatus, essentially as the commander.

[Stephen Bonnell]

As the commander in chief, yes.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Yeah. Is that fascist?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No.

[Trump Supporter 8]

So they have unilateral, basically, almost unilateral Control, by your own metrics, of the most mighty military on planet Earth. That's not accumulating enough power. Centralized control to one person. It's the fact that he tried to slay some electors.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Really? So the president being the commander and the chief is specifically laid out in the Constitution. That's an authority granted to him. I don't know what's fascist about.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Well, because you said it's ultra power. It's this idea of having.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't say anything about military.

[Trump Supporter 8]

If you do have the central power.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Never bring that up for him.

[Trump Supporter 8]

But if you have the central power of the most mighty military on planet Earth and the codes to the largest nuclear armament on planet Earth, you already have. Have all of the central power, bro.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Really?

[Trump Supporter 8]

Yeah.

[Stephen Bonnell]

How do the nuclear codes help you protect your Department of Justice?

[Trump Supporter 8]

You okay? I'm sorry, does he. Is he the commander in chief of the. Of the United States Armed Forces?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm just arguing that he's the commander. I already agree with you. I don't know why you keep arguing.

[Trump Supporter 8]

I'm arguing to you.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm asking you, how does commander in chief use the military? Ask me.

[Trump Supporter 8]

It's your claim. I can ask whatever you want about your claim.

[Stephen Bonnell]

And your claim is how does that make him control the doj? How does the military help him control the doj?

[Trump Supporter 8]

Back up. That is the most powerful position I can think of for you to be in. In period. How could you.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That's a powerful position. That's a powerful.

[Trump Supporter 8]

What more accumulation of power would you want for a fascist dictator?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, so that's powerful in that you controlled the military. That's it. That's just control of the military. For the FBI coming to your house to arrest you for the DOJ filing charges, military to do it. No, the president doesn't do that. I don't know. I don't believe that he can. I don't believe you can. I don't think that you can deploy the military to arbitrarily arrest U.S. citizens.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay. You're not voting for Trump. No, I am. I think we can have a respectful policy disagreement without labeling one side or the other fascist or communist or Marxist. So let's have a policy disagreement here. You think Donald Trump is a fascist because of ultranationalist tendencies and authoritarian.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Correct. Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 2]

So let me just draft this vision and see if it makes sense. The authoritarianism is ruling by presidential decree, prosecuting political opponents, bringing power into the government, and abandoning our allies abroad. That sounds a lot like the Biden Harris administration.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I would say that we'll go point by point. So first of all, when we talk about abandoning allies abroad, are we referring to. So we haven't cut funding from Israel? Are we referring to when Donald Trump abandoned the Turkish people or abandoned the Kurdish people to Turkish attacks in Syria? Are we talking about when the Trump administration cut out the Afghanistan government in the Doha Accords, when they were talking with the Taliban, when Donald Trump surrendered to the Taliban? Or are we talking about when Biden tried to support Ukraine with the full force of not only the United States economy and our moral support, but also by getting Europe on board to help Ukraine? The idea that the Biden and Harris administration have abandoned our foreign partners is. Is nonsense to me. And also, it's not just about making the government more powerful. I know that Andrew tried to run with that. It's about centralizing power within the government.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Right. And wiping off student loan debts at the expense of working class Americans. I understand that, but let's.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, so hold on. Wiping out student loan government. The citation for that was the. Was a bill that was passed from Congress. Biden tried to do that because of the. During. It was like extraordinary times. You could do something and he tried to stretch it to that. Supreme Court said no, and then he didn't do it.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay. The Supreme Court had to interview.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, the Supreme Court made a ruling on it because it was challenged. That's the government, like, working as.

[Trump Supporter 2]

And he stopped trying to do that right afterward. Right. He said, I'm not gonna do this anymore. Or did he say, I'm gonna keep delivering on this promise?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think he explored other legal avenues to do it.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, well, legal remains to be seen. But let's talk about.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, he hasn't done anything illegal, right?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, let's talk about.

[Stephen Bonnell]

He hasn't done anything illegal, right?

[Trump Supporter 2]

We're talking about.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, there's no answer to that.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, let's talk about. Let's talk about October 7th. October 7th would not have happened if President Trump was in office. Ukraine would not have been invaded by Russia if President Trump was in office. You can call him crazy, you can call him anything. He was an effective deterrent because he understood. Stephen, a little thing we like to call peace through strength. Here's the truth.

[Stephen Bonnell]

The truth is October 7th probably happened, likely because of Trump and his policies.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Holy moly. Why is that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why is that?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Yes, please.

[Stephen Bonnell]

The reason why is because Donald Trump engaged in more reckless behavior with Israel that only encouraged Israel's Expansionism without doing anything, anything to actually address the Palestinian problem. For instance, Donald Trump agreed to moving and recognizing the moving of the embassy to Jerusalem. That instigated everybody in the region, including the Palestinians, which is why you saw the whole border riots, the Great March of Return that erupted over the year, protesting that. And then Donald Trump, along with Kushner, tried to help Israelis negotiate multilateral peace agreements or more bilateral peace agreements for the Abraham Accords, again while cutting out the Palestinians. All of this just continued to drive the Palestinian plight further and further because they saw more and more allies being isolated from them. They saw no recognition over from the United States States. And then obviously, you know, terrorist attacks is all you can do from that point, apparently.

[Trump Supporter 2]

So, so, so Trump moved an embassy, got Muslim majority countries for the first time ever to recognize the rightful existence of the Jewish state of Israel, and that justifies the heinous attack we saw on October 7th where we killed over 1000.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You didn't justify any. Well, you said that Trump, Donald Trump. I said that Donald Trump and his foreign policy posturing is what moved us in that direction.

[Trump Supporter 2]

President Biden was in office for three years before October 7th happened. How possibly could that be true?

[Stephen Bonnell]

What is Biden do to contribute to the conditions that made October 7th happen?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Very clear, very clear. Iran was only exporting 150,000 barrels of oil a day under Trump. Now they're exporting 1.6 million. They're making hundreds of billions of dollars a year more. That emboldens them to give their proxies weapons money and the vigor to attack the Jewish state. And that is unacceptable in the international community. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something about President.

[Stephen Bonnell]

The only reason that Hamas attacked Israel, you think the only reason they're able to do is because of increased Iranian funding.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Who funds Hamas?

[Stephen Bonnell]

In part, it's Iran. But Hamas gets funding from all sorts of different adventures.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Who funds Iran?

[Stephen Bonnell]

They were getting. They get. They get money from Qatar. Right?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Who funds. Okay, who funds Hamas? Of course they do.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Right. Probably more money.

[Trump Supporter 2]

No, no, no, no.

[Stephen Bonnell]

It might have been Qatar, I think, actually.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, they give him a Ritz card, Carlton hotel room.

[Stephen Bonnell]

But listen, no, they were transferring a whole lot of money to the Gaza Strip. That was one of the big things. One of the big scandals that Netanyahu was involved in was allowing that money to pass through to the Gaza Strip. Steven, let's just do some provision.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Quick logical reasoning here. If Iran gets more money, that's good for Hamas, right? You agree on that. Come on.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Broadly speak Broadly speaking, yeah.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Come on.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Just.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Just concede one thing, Stephen.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Come on. Broadly speaking, probably, yeah.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay. All right.

[Stephen Bonnell]

There's more at play here that I'm not even sure if you're aware of. So the irgc, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps has some amount of money that's guaranteed to it, regardless of whether exporting, importing is a country. But in general, I agree with you. Sure. Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 2]

And you know what? I am glad that President Trump ordered the assassination of Qasem Soleimani, because that man is responsible for death and destruction. The targets he made on the Jewish state were completely unacceptable, Stephen.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't even think the targets he made on American citizens in Iraq was unacceptable. I have no love lost for Suleimani. I'm glad the dude's dead. I'm not gonna sit here and defend it. But Donald Trump doesn't do anything good foreign policy wise for Israel. He doesn't have a vision for the region. That's why he had to basically leave all of of it to his son in law, Kushner.

[Trump Supporter 2]

But why was Crimea annexed under Obama? Why was Ukraine invaded under Biden? Why did nothing happen under Trump for four years? It was a complete stalemate, complete stability.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Crimea was still occupied, right?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, but it was annexed under who?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Hold on. It was still occupied. Right, of course. But let's be realist. There was a civil war. There was a civil war that was raging in the Donbass the entire time. Right.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Accelerate. Did it accelerate? Was there new land claims?

[Stephen Bonnell]

There was more. Not new land claims, but the civil war in the Donbas being bombed. But the civil war in the Donbas was still going on. What did Donald Trump do about that?

[Trump Supporter 2]

The world is safer under President Trump. World was safer under President Trump. The world knows that, Stephen. And the world's going to show that on November 5th.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 7]

So would you attribute fascism to maybe a dictator?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I mean, a dictator can be fascistic. Sure.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Okay, so on Biden's first day in office, he signed 17 executive orders. Trump signed one. Most of the executive orders that Biden signed were to halt, like the border and other Trump immigration policies.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't think executive orders have anything to do with fascism.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Would you attribute those to being a dictator?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Not at all?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Okay, well then what other claim do you have that he is a fascist.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Compared to, I think that Donald Trump reaching into and trying to direct his apartments to do probably illegal things?

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, Biden did that too with Facebook. He came out and said Zuckerberg came out and said that Biden Harris came to him to pretty much limit what Trump.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't think that was the claim. I think that what Zuckerberg said was that he felt pressured by some of the intelligence agencies to censor stories that they had censored, and he felt like he regretted that or he had a laptop, for example. Well, that wasn't done because of any direct pressure from any of the intelligence agencies. We saw that in the Twitter files. There was never a client claim.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, then why would Zuckerberg come out and say, I'm not going to?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, I'm talking about Twitter files. Zuckerberg had his reasons that he listed in his letter to Jordan. But none of this was illegal.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Well, I'm not saying it's illegal, but I'm saying. Would you not say that's kind of dictatorial, kind of fashion?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, I don't think so. It's all, like, out in the open, like, at the end of the year, like, Twitter and Facebook are publishing how.

[Trump Supporter 7]

Much they're saying that the world's reversed. And then Trump did that to Biden. Would you then call them fascists for doing that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

For doing what?

[Trump Supporter 7]

For pressuring, as you said, Zuckerberg, or Meta to.

[Stephen Bonnell]

If Donald Trump's intelligence agencies has felt like there was, like, information that was being illegally offered into the United States from foreign enemies or whatever, and that department was like, well, what, the laptop was proven? No, but that was the word. The laptop hasn't proved anything. But that was the fear, and that was the, like, fear that they had shared with those companies. But they didn't force them directly to take any action. Again, we can read the Twitter files. We can go through the emails.

[Trump Supporter 7]

I'm not talking about Twitter. I'm talking about Facebook.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm talking about Meta for Facebook. Zuckerberg also didn't allege any illegal action. He just said there was pressure from some of the agencies because. To, like, censor what they perceive to be as threats or misinformation or whatever. I think some of it had to do, like, Covid misinformation shit as well, I think. Okay, which we can argue, like, should they have the role to do that or not. I just don't know if that's necessarily fascistic. Like, Donald Trump trying to direct his DOJ to, like, go after certain people or trying to direct his DOJ to, like. There's zero evidence for any of that, and probably it's almost certainly not true. If you look at how Merrick Garland has gone after, for instance, his son.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. So I wanted to hone in on the part about nationalism. Can you explain that again in a little bit more detail?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Sure. So I would say more ultra nationalism than just nationalism, but it's this idea that, you know, basically screw the rest of the world. We're gonna hardcore cut immigration, we're gonna hardcore cut our trade, we're gonna hardcore cut our associate with anybody else, and we're just gonna be like our own little, basically island nation. I think is a very bad direction to go in.

[Trump Supporter 1]

And who's taking us in that direction?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think that's what Donald Trump wants to do.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Wants to do. He was in office for four years. Did he do that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, Donald Trump began some tariff processes. He had. He tried to do a full Muslim ban. He tried. Well, he took steps towards that. He took steps towards that. Right. You acknowledged that he did try to. He banned seven lives on majority countries. Right.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You're a U.S. cP.

[Stephen Bonnell]

He did do that. He did do tariffs. He acknowledged that. Right.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Do you like being an American?

[Stephen Bonnell]

NATO.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Are you glad to be able to live here?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm glad to be able to live here. Am I glad to be an American? I am. But I don't know what that means to you, but to me, I.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Which is interesting because something that I've started to realize in the last few years is people who love America, who love living here, have been titled nationalists, and it's like a threat all of a sudden.

[Stephen Bonnell]

People that label themselves maga that say they love America have nothing to do with American values and nothing in common with the core values of this country. So they are the least American people. Please explain.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Please explain.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Sure. The desire to elect somebody who says the most obviously fishiest things in the world, like the media, is the enemy of the people. A guy who says he wants to terminate the Constitution, a guy who says he'd be a dictator on day one.

[Trump Supporter 1]

He'S terminating the Constitution.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Donald Trump said that he believes he could terminate the Constitution because of.

[Trump Supporter 1]

It's so crazy because I've been hearing a lot lately from your side that the Constitution isn't necessary.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Oh, I'm sorry, which lawmaker or presidential candidate said that?

[Trump Supporter 1]

Your side.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Which is that the name first and last. Your side, like Ms. Side, or is she a congressman or is she a senator or. I don't know which leader has said that, so I can't speak to that. I don't know who.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You fought for this anyway, as an.

[Stephen Bonnell]

American, but anyway, you acknowledge the. Donald Trump. Trump said that in times of like great peril, you can suspend the Constitution. And that he would do that? For voter fraud.

[Trump Supporter 1]

For voter fraud, he said that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yes. On Truth Social, he said that.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I'm sure there's a longer quote that I can look up later. I would love to do that, but I'm sure you're using it out of context.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, you'll look it up later and you won't ever talk about it again because it's an important quote. You acknowledge Donald Trump because you know me so well. Because you're on that side. I know. Okay, you agree that Donald Trump said that he'd be a dictator on day one.

[Trump Supporter 1]

He did not say he would be a dictator on day day one.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, cool. So as an American, I believe that it's a privilege and a blessing to live here. And under the Biden and Harris administration. My life has gotten a lot worse and a lot more difficult. Has your life gotten better or has it gotten worse?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'd say my life has gotten better.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Well, you're. Congratulations. You're the only person in this room. Maybe, but when I go to the grocery store, and you mentioned about inflation and everything, but when I go to the store, grocery. And a bag of groceries is like $50 and I have two kids to feed, do you think that that helps me as an American or do you think that hurts me as an American?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think an expansion of the child tax credit would help you a lot more than another tax cut for wealthy billionaires.

[Trump Supporter 1]

A couple thousand dollars isn't going to change my life.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Especially when another $6,000 a year wouldn't help you at all with groceries.

[Trump Supporter 1]

With two children. Yeah, this much, maybe. But if the price is.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What are your children eating?

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return your seat nicely. I would like to address. Because earlier, I feel like this was.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Kind of dodged on a little bit. Earlier, you directly said that Trump was authoritarian. Then he said he was ultra nationalist. And then you said he was authoritarian. Then again, you said he was ultra nationalist. Again, you kind of bounced back and forth. So which do you think? Well, I would say both. Use both. Right. Both. Right. But then when the topic of ultra nationalism brought up, you said, well, he's more authoritarian. And then that again changed to, well, he's more ultra nationalist. So which in your mind is he? Is he more authoritarian or is he more ultra nationalist? I don't know how to answer. It's like asking if a square is more blue or five feet. Well, because you said that. Well, because you said that he was more nationalist and then you said he was more authoritarian. You said both claims. So which claim? Is he more nationalist or is he more authoritarian? I don't know how to say which one he's more of. He's both. They're not. I don't think I ever said that. I don't remember. Do you remember what was his response.

[Trump Supporter 1]

To I don't remember.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I believe it was the first gentleman who spoke. Okay. He might have said something like. You said that he was an ultranational. I said yes. And an authoritarian. Just being one of these things doesn't have to be a fascist.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Why is nationalism at all even bad in the first place?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know if nationalism necessarily bad. I think that people kind of swap it out with patriotism sometimes. That's why there's the prefix ultranationalism. Ultra nationalism is bad. It's because when you elevate your own country. Just like do for ultranationalism when he talks about putting terrorists across the board for every single other country on the planet. So helping our economy. It wouldn't be helping us. He was not helping our economy during his presidency when he was actually literally getting us to import rice to China. Rice to China is benefiting our economy. Is that not. Is replacing China is one of big China's biggest farming with ours. And as this gentleman also brought up with our manufacturing. How is bringing manufacturing over here which is helped by tariffs. How is that not? We already have. We manufacture things here. If we've got more people manufacturing baser goods, then we can't manufacture more sophisticated goods. There's a reason, Elon Musk. Because you only have so many people.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, pause. That's time. Please return to your chair.

[Stephen Bonnell]

My. Psst. Your payments are showing, but with Apple Cash, your payments are private by design. There are no public feeds, awkward reactions or unnecessary payment drama. Apple Cash lets you send cash and messages right in the conversations you're already having. Or with tap to Cash. Pay someone next to you without looking up a username or scanning a QR code. Just hold your iPhone near someone else's to send. Switch to Apple Cash and start sending privately. Apple Cash services are provided by Green Dot bank member fdic.

[Trump Supporter 2]

What is dadication?

[Stephen Bonnell]

The thing that drives me every day as a dad is Dariona. We call him Day Date for short.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Every day he's hungry for something, whether it's attention, affection, knowledge. And there's this huge responsibility in making sure that when he's no longer under.

[Stephen Bonnell]

My wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to.

[Trump Supporter 3]

Sit back one day and go, we worked together.

[Stephen Bonnell]

We did a good job.

[Trump Supporter 2]

That's dadication.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Find out [e-mail], brought to you by the U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council. Next claim is the Make America Great Again movement would not exist without massive amounts of disinformation. No.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Hello, Destiny. Hi, Fantasy. Seeing you here again.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yep.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Here to bully me some more?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yep. All right, let's go. Okay, let's get it going.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Can you state some of the disinformation?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Sure. I think over the past few weeks, we've seen absurd claims relating to hurricanes being manufactured by weather machines. We've seen outright lies about the National Guard and FEMA blowing away supplies and trapping people in their homes, and lying about Biden providing. Providing financial aid to states even though Trump is the one that has threatened to withhold aid. We've seen lies about the Haitians eating dogs and cats and Springfield. I can go on and on. Have you. Have you.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I have a few questions. Have you left the United States?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Where have you been?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I've been through Israel and Palestine. I've gone across Europe. I've been to New Zealand. I've been to places in Asia. I don't know. Okay, so you're like me.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been everywhere. So you've seen some of these claims. You've like literally seen them to be true or that they're false, rather so.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I mean, I haven't seen how a hurricane is made. I haven't talked to every Haitian in Springfield.

[Trump Supporter 1]

All right, so what was the second point you brought up? You said something about the camps and not looking that way. That was my point. Have you been to these camps and have you seen the conditions and things.

[Stephen Bonnell]

That the FEMA camps are. No.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Yeah, so. Exactly. Period. The. So you're, you're saying, no, you haven't, but you're saying it's disinformation. So how do you know that it's disinformation? Which is why I brought up the point. Have you left the country? Have you seen with your own eyes what's going on in these camps?

[Stephen Bonnell]

And the. Do you understand that for any type of society in an advanced civilization to work, you have to be able to rely on third party people to report to you things that are true? Right.

[Trump Supporter 1]

But there's so much fake news out there today. Exactly. So my question is to you, though, is that, have you seen these claims? Have you seen these places with your own eyes? Do you know what's going on?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, but I don't have time to verify everything with my own eyes.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I know, because you're too busy teaching gamers how to be nearby.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Because I can't verify every single thing in the world with my own eyes.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Just like you couldn't verify the fact that you enjoy getting pegged, Right? Actually, you did verify that anyways.

[Stephen Bonnell]

But that was just a. Technically, you need a mirror to see that. But I don't know why you'd even.

[Trump Supporter 1]

It was a B side.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Are we here to talk sex for 20 minutes? I get that if you want, yeah. So what if other.

[Trump Supporter 1]

What other claims were like, not valid or false?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I. How many? I mean, something else. I mean, the election. The 2020 election, the voter fraud claims for that were all fabricated.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been voted by the majority. Please return to your seats.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I think that both sides thrive on misinformation. I think average people don't have enough times and time in their lives to decipher what's true and what's not. I think that's the case for most people who work nine to five, unfortunately. But I think that your side also thrives off of misinformation. I think that you actually just did the meme a second ago. You said that the Tax Cuts and Jobs act was just tax cuts for the rich, but in fact, people making 15,000 to $50,000 received a tax cut of 16 to 26%.

[Stephen Bonnell]

The majority of the money went to wealthy people.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Why is that? It's because wealthy people pay more taxes, Stephen.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 5]

So their share of tax burden is obviously going to. To be in volume. More physical dollars.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yes, but when it comes to the budget, all that matters is proportionally. Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Do you can see that proportionally middle class people received more in tax breaks than rich people?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Proportionally. Proportionally to their income. Yes, possibly.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Or their tax burden.

[Stephen Bonnell]

But. But the problem is the effect at the end of the day on the budget then is going to be out. Like the biggest outlay is going to be towards wealthy people. Right. Our deficits are increasing because all the money that wealthy people are saving.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Right, okay, sure, fair enough. But I think, like, Already, what is 90% of taxes are paid by 50% of the country, and 50% of taxes are paid by 1% of the country. I always hear this thing of like, the billionaires, the rich people aren't paying their fair share, but it seems to me that they've been paying more than their fair share since America's inception. And the middle class actually has been paying not their fair share. And I'm not saying that we should increase taxes on the middle class, but what I'm saying is the billionaires are definitely paying their fair share.

[Stephen Bonnell]

They pay a lot, for sure. But if you want to fund all the programs that we have, you have to tax people.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Back to the misinfo thing.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I mean, like, I agree that both sides engage in misinformation. I just think that conservatives do it on a whole other level. Donald Trump will get up and lie as easily as he breathes. Like, if you watch any of the interviews that he gives is lie after lie after lie after lie. Same thing with.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Same thing with Kamala Harris.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Not even walls. Close to the same level. There's a reason why they asked him, walls, did you lie? Like, were you three months off on when you went to China? And then he filibustered, and then for Vance, it was. Do you believe the results of the last election? Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 5]

No, I agree.

[Stephen Bonnell]

These are totally different. You agree? Yeah, these are. Right. Like you're saying, I don't know, like.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Saying inflation is lower now than it was under Trump. Pre Covid inflation rate 2.4%.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why did Biden say he ran for president? I don't remember. Do you remember the video he released.

[Trump Supporter 2]

At the beginning when he launched his.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Campaign for the 2020 election? Or for those. I don't remember.

[Trump Supporter 2]

He says because of Charlottesville. And he specifically cited that Donald Trump called the Nazis fine people. Do you believe that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

So, yes. I don't know why. No, no, no. I'm sorry. Hold on. Wait. I understand what you're gonna say. I know what you're gonna say. It's people like to go to the court. So some people present this as Donald Trump saying that the Nazis were good people. He didn't. He said there were good people on both sides of that rally. But it was a rally that had Nazis. I don't know in what world you would ever say that. The full quote doesn't exculp. It's not exculpatory at all. Therefore, the full quote.

[Trump Supporter 2]

He said, the Nazis and white supremacists. I completely disavow. So he disavowed them after he was.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Pushed several times to disagree. No, no, no, that's not true. No, he said in the speech. He said it in the speech.

[Trump Supporter 2]

He said in the speech. And they took him out of context and said that he called them fine people. Right after he said the fine people line, he said, disavow the Nazis. So that's a lie that the Biden campaign signed.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I disagree that it was a lie his put on its own of him saying that the people on both sides tiki tally on a tiki torch rally. That is insanity. You say disavowed insanity. No, it's not easy. This was like a question on an on a retard test saying like, hey, listen, here's a rally with a bunch of guys. Sorry, my bad streamer language. My bad streamer language. There's a rally and on one side you got a bunch of people with tiki torches. How would you describe the rally? And you go, well, there are fine people on both sides. It's the most easy bait in the world to say. You probably should just say that side is a bad side, considering how much people claim that, like you have to disavow all the blm, all of this all rivals. It was a protest of the removal.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Of the Confederate statues.

[Stephen Bonnell]

There are people that are normal people there. There are people there with tiki torches. That was at the night port.

[Trump Supporter 2]

That's what love him because he disavowed the Nazis.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been voted out. Please return to your seat.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What's up, Stephen? Hey, what's up? So tell me. Misinformation. You mean like fake dossiers or like rhetoric that has a president get assassinated? Attempts to get assassinated. You mean like that kind of misinformation that caused three assassination attempts? Do you know why those people try those assassination attempts? I don't know. You're your friends, right? Didn't you say like one of the Republicans got shot? Right? You had problem with that? Right. So I mean, that, that's the level of disinformation. Weren't two of them like registered Republicans? So they say, I think. Were they watching your content? Were they watching my content? Who's they? They the Jews or. I don't know about that. Oh, yeah. Isn't that the same misinformation? The dossiers, the rhetoric that he's a badass? Oh, you know, like the one that Hillary Clinton bought, right? You know, the one that was published by the fake one. You know, I don't know. The one that led that whole FBA FBI, you know, investigation that wasted a whole bunch of Americans money, right? Well, no, I don't think I would say. I think that the Mueller investigation turned out more credible indictments and information than the Hillary Clinton email investigation and the whole Benghazi waste of time. Yeah, but it was all that, all that stuff that, that came from, you know, the Democrat party, all that fake news, right? Is that what you're talking about? When? I don't know. I don't know if you call it fake news. It was a dossier that they paid for to be researched. That was a person. I mean, there was low confidence in a lot of it. Just like, for instance, would you acknowledge it also about Hunter Biden and his illegal dealings with Burisma and Joe Biden, like, profiting off. That's all fake news too? No, no, I just know he does a lot of cocaine. Okay. Did you cocaine with him? No, I Don't you come with him? Not recently, no. Because you are the Kumar Gremlin, right? Am I the Kumar Gremlin? Well, we know you are. Yeah. Like Donald Trump is when he was like a prostitute. Like four years or four months after his wife had a child at home, when he was cheating with Stormy Daniels. You mean, like how you your wife.

[Trump Supporter 2]

To go get banged out?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Am I running for president right now? Are you going to vote for me or. No, I wouldn't vote for. So do you remember when Donald Trump was Stormy Daniels? No, but do you remember four months after. Four months after she had a child? Right. You remember that? You notice that? Remember that? I like that. The standard that you set for me is the same as you set for your president. I'm not running for president. You understand that? My standard for president. Okay, well then why are you comparing Trump to me?

[Trump Supporter 1]

Because I'm just voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. Okay, so everybody seems to be bringing up neo Nazis and neonationalism. That seems to be coming up. And I want to know why. Under. Under Obama. Joe Biden was the vice president under Obama and they. Our United States government, this is a fact, organized a coup against the government of Ukraine. And Ukraine is known as one of the number one countries where neo Nazis are going to train. You have the Azov battalion. You have the right sector.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Number one. The Azov battalion, I think at its Most had like 6 or 700 people that might have been identified as neo Nazis. Maybe, number one. Number two, the United States did not engage in any type of coup or anything.

[Trump Supporter 1]

There is a coup. It's reported.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Victoria Newland.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, I understand. I'm aware of the Newland leak. All she said was that.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Why did they remove Jeffrey Pyatt from the embassy?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Why did they remove Jeffrey Pyatt from the embassy? Why did they kick him out of Ukraine? All evidence. You are delusional. I'm a crazy person.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Because of Maidan.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You're a crazy person.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay. Privy no, no, no, no. Yet. It doesn't matter. You don't understand what happened and you're making up claims that aren't true. True. This is. These are actual recordings from Victoria.

[Stephen Bonnell]

We've all heard them 15 million times. Because it's the only things that you guys can propagate to try to claim that the United States engaged in a coup for them.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I haven't brought this up at all. I'm bringing it up right now. Okay. You've been voted out by the majority.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Hi.

[Trump Supporter 1]

So I just want to address the fact. Recently we had a debate, and so there wasn't any fact checks on Kamala Harris, really, anytime. Especially when she claimed that Democrats don't support third trimester abortion and that it never happens. That recently happened not too long ago in Washington, D.C. with Caesar Sant'. Angelo. There were five third trimester babies who were aborted. We've seen this with Kermit Gosnell as well.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Can I ask, what were those five babies aborted for?

[Trump Supporter 1]

Why does that matter? They were still killed. Third trimester, fully developed. Their signs completely snapped.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Was the abortion a part of, like, a medical procedure for the life of the mother?

[Trump Supporter 1]

No. No.

[Stephen Bonnell]

So it was a totally elective. Okay, I'll look it up afterwards. My understanding is, one, this is incredibly rare. Two, I don't even know if the vast majority of Democrats would support this. Three, I don't know if the vast majority of, like, pro choice people would support this.

[Trump Supporter 1]

But the thing is, over 90% of Democrats actually don't. They are okay with. They are okay with there not being any limits on abortion. If we look at the states, there's six states, including Washington, D.C. which is a district that has no restrictions on abortion. That means that all of those states are Democrat states. So, yes, that side is perpetuating and at least setting a very dangerous precedent that this can happen in those states.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think the reason why they advocate for no laws in those states, and I would have liked. Maybe there's a better way to craft a law for it. But the problem is that if you make it illegal, then if a medical issue does come up, there's a potential roadblock or a hurdle there where a person might die waiting to get some type of, like, legal.

[Trump Supporter 1]

But someone always dies in an abortion. Someone always dies. A human being always dies.

[Stephen Bonnell]

With all due respect, this is an insane position. And I'm not going to take the position that the life of the fetus is going to be prioritized over the life of the mother because you want to make an abortion illegal there. In that case, I don't think you have anything. So it's okay to kill a human being just for any sort of mother. And I think that the family should be making that decision. I don't think that the government should be stepping in and saying, I don't.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Think that the government should allow. Allow people to kill people for no reason.

[Stephen Bonnell]

But you're saying that you would turn the woman away from medical treatment because she can't engage in an abortion.

[Trump Supporter 1]

No, that's not what I'm saying. That's not the claim that I'm making. What I'm saying is that that side is saying that no one supports it, that no laws are giving precedent for third trimester abortions. When that's happening, and even if it is a small number say it's 1% of all abortions, that's still over 15,000 abortions. That's three times the amount of kids who die in school shootings, which is a tragedy. And that's an issue we all need to fix. But that's still significant amount of people that are dying from abortion. And no Democrat is acknowledging that. And I think it should be at least acknowledged.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay. I mean, if Republicans want to put together any type of like pro choice legislation that they feel like Democrats would support, I mean, then they can have that conversation. But obviously that's not gonna happen. So when Democrats are engaging. Because when Democrats are engaging with that conversation with Republicans, Republicans bring up the third trimester stuff. But you guys don't actually care about third trimester.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Why do we not care?

[Stephen Bonnell]

You're. Because you're care about all three trimesters. You just use it. Exactly. So you don't want to ban third trimester abortion, you want to ban all abortion, but you hyper fixate on the third trimester abortion as a way to get conversation.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Because it's happening. Because your side denies that it happens. And it does happen.

[Stephen Bonnell]

If they acknowledge that it happened or even if they banned third trimester abortion, you guys would still want to get rid of all abortion.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I'm okay. With their trimester abortion.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm okay.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Please return to your seats.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Number one, I'm a MAGA gangster. I'm outside when it comes to Trump. Have you ever been to a rally? Yes. That's number one. I don't know if you book smart or if you're really outside. Cause I'm outside. I'm outside. And you basically said magas thrive off of lies. First of all, you ever seen a Trump rally? You don't See all of the unity and love out there? Nope. I see things saying like, deport all the immigrants. And I see more MAGA flags. Then I see. Then I see Americans. All right, let me ask you this. You support Black Lives Matter? Not that much. Black Lives Matter Only when media put it out. That's number one. Trump is bringing a lot of unity and love. You support burning and Lewton. That's what you support. Don't be trusting. And they tripped me out. How you could support someone that just want the world to just go crazy burning and looting. And I heard you say something earlier that's crazy. Crazy. You said you hate America. Talk about that. I don't think I ever said I hate America. Yes, you did. And it made me look at you. Even America. When did I say in what country? You said it earlier. You said it earlier. I don't think so. I think I said America. I think I said that. I. I like America. I like America. I don't think MAGA people like America. I don't think you guys have any idea what it means to be American. I don't think you know what American values are. I don't think you know what this country was founded or built upon. And I think you guys are obsessed with the cult leaders who is taking the entire Republican Party off of a camera. Everything he say, he do. Trump is gangster. Can you give me one thing you don't like about Trump? What I don't like about him? I love everything about him. I know. Because it's a cult. Thank you. It's not a cult I'm from. No, it's not. That's a cult. Everything is a cult. If you want to think about it. Okay. Everything is a cult. To somebody in a cult, that's probably true. Yeah. Someone that's representing and Kamala Kumala, whatever her name is, she out of here. TRUMP 24. Let's go.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Hi. Hi, Jenny. Nice to meet you.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Nice to meet you.

[Trump Supporter 1]

So you think that people that support Trump are in a cult. Why is that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I feel like Donald Trump is basically untouchable. He can do no wrong. The entire consciousness, Conservative Party, is basically centered around Donald Trump. Any person that goes against Donald Trump, it can be so many people. Everybody still looks at all of those people around him as being the fault and never Donald Trump. When Donald Trump was in office, it was because of the swamp. When people like Barr turned against him, it was because he was a rhino. When people like McCarthy didn't like, carry his banner, it's cause he's A rhino. People like. It's this labeling of every single person around that says he's a bad guy, is, oh, those people are rhinos, and Trump is great, and Trump can do no wrong.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Basically, I think that's false. I don't think Trump is a perfect human being. I think anybody out here that's voting for Trump knows that he is not innocent. No top businessman, no top politician got to the top without getting their hands dirty. I think what we're all voting for is based on his policies. I think he prioritizes the economy. I think he stands for women's rights, and that is something that's very, very important to me. Do you think that Trump likes women? Do you think he respects them at all?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Trump loves women. I don't know if he respects them when we say no.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Why not?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think the types of statements alone that he makes about women, I think call that into question. But you said earlier that people support Trump because of his policies. I don't think that's true because I don't even know what policies of Trump. Nobody even talks about them.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Oh, really? He posted on his Twitter. He posted that of, like, 20 promises he's gonna make to America. He's gonna make trans women competing in women's sports illegal. I think that that is something that needs to be said, that he does support women in that regard.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Are these things that we. Are these, like, the most important issues to you?

[Trump Supporter 1]

I think so.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I am a woman, after all. At least I know I am.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You're getting a lot of NCAA or whatever athletic events.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I attended San Jose State. I graduated from there. You do realize that there is a transgender person that's on that volleyball team, and nobody on that team was told that there was a transgender woman on there.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I just. I didn't know this was the largest issue in the election for you. It just seems like a pretty minor thing all the time.

[Trump Supporter 1]

I think women's rights in general is a big thing.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay. But not the right to an abortion.

[Trump Supporter 8]

So you talk about misinformation, but you've given us a ton of misinformation right now. You said, seems like nobody in MAGA even wants to talk about any of the issues of Donald Trump. Had multiple debaters come up, talk to you about multiple economic policies. Compare and contrast them with Kamala gave you great reason.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't think I heard any economic policy from Trump when he was in four year.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Okay, okay. No, no, no. Back up. Now you're switching the claim. So what you just claimed is, I Don't hear MAGA people talk about this at all.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't think I heard anybody.

[Trump Supporter 8]

That's what you said. And yes, they did. They brought up. They brought up the capital gains policies. They also brought up. They also brought up tariffs. They brought up the tariff policies. They brought up multiple economic policies. Total misinfo. Total misinfo for you to say they didn't. They absolutely did. Are you disputing that? Nobody here brought up any policies of Donald Trump.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think that when you're talking policies from somebody, if the only thing you have are terrorists, it's not really a strong policy foundation.

[Trump Supporter 8]

I'm sorry, did you use the word any? You don't hear anybody talk about that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Speaking like a human being right now.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Oh, but when Donald Trump speaks like a human being, he's a liar.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Doesn't speak like a human being.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Yeah, he speaks anytime.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm sorry, but Donald Trump speaks like.

[Trump Supporter 8]

An e. So would you say it's misinformation? For instance, is it misinformation when you say that a firefighter who got murdered at a rally. When you laugh at that and you say that that's totally fine. Are you spreading misinformation?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know if I said that's totally fine. I think I said I don't really have any sympathy for the.

[Trump Supporter 8]

No, you didn't. You laughed about it. You thought it was funny. You didn't give a shit. You were under fire on Twitter for it for weeks until you finally backed away.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I haven't backed away from any of those statements.

[Trump Supporter 8]

You'd have it backed away from any of them?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, not at all.

[Trump Supporter 8]

You don't care that guy died, right?

[Stephen Bonnell]

People died.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Yeah.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah. You don't care when this side is. When this side is involved, but you care about misinformed. Here's a question that doesn't do with misinform. Here's a question. Do you disavow any of the rhetoric about Paul Pelosi? Do you disavow any of the rhetoric about Paul Pelosi?

[Trump Supporter 3]

What?

[Trump Supporter 8]

Even if I make. Made any outrageous claim possible, has nothing to do with your claim, which is.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What we're talking about. Your claim. Stop switching. Of course not.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Stop switching.

[Stephen Bonnell]

On January 6th. He doesn't acknowledge. And you're filibustering right now because the.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Federal government stops Burgundy.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You are. Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Stop spurging.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You can say. Stops burging over and over again. I'm not here to talk about my tweets, but if that's what you really want to talk About? I've tweeted crazier than that, I promise.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Are you going to acknowledge that you said totally fine, you didn't care. You just said right now you don't care.

[Stephen Bonnell]

You can look at all my.

[Trump Supporter 8]

How is it now? Let me explain how it's got to do with misinformation. Let me explain how it's misinformation, because don't you think that if you make claims like Donald Trump is un American, Donald Trump doesn't like the Constitution, and then you have an assassin come, he tries to kill Donald J. Trump at a rally, another American dies. Aren't you spreading misinformation by saying to people, this is okay. Isn't that un American?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Said this is okay. I've said over and over again that there shouldn't be any politics, political violence in the United States. It's not good. You can laugh. You guys are the ones that Donald.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Trump said that on January 6. He said it during January 6 after.

[Stephen Bonnell]

He sat and watched it happen for.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Three hours after the guy died. Now you're sorry about your rhetoric.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Who said I was sorry?

[Trump Supporter 8]

Yeah, you're not sorry.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Stop projecting onto me. I never said I was sorry about anything. I have not said that. Yeah, unlike you, I have a spine over the things that I say. Okay, Number one, number two, Donald Trump and your side are the ones that have engaged in divisive rhetoric for years. This idea that saying Donald Trump is un American, when Donald Trump himself says that he would be a day, one day divisive rhetoric, he would suspend the country Constitution. I'm sorry, if, if the divisive.

[Trump Supporter 8]

There's a difference between assassinating.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Maybe that's Donald Trump's problem.

[Trump Supporter 8]

Maybe rhetoric has led to assassination attempts. And one of the guys who died.

[Stephen Bonnell]

There, you don't even give a shit.

[Trump Supporter 8]

And I've said this multiple times. And at the same time you're like.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Oh, I love America.

[Trump Supporter 8]

What kind of bullshit is this?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Destiny. Unbelievable. Yeah. When you guys start taking accountability for some of the crazy things that you say, come and talk to me, okay? Come and talk to me.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, so we're gonna do a five minute extension.

[Stephen Bonnell]

All right.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I want to go back to kind of your original claim.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Which disinformation?

[Trump Supporter 5]

Well, can you restate your original claim?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think MAGA thrives on disinformation. They are in a totally different reality now than they ever have been.

[Trump Supporter 5]

So that actually wasn't your original claim. Your original claim was that the MAGA.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Movement wouldn't exist without the amount of disinformation. Yeah, something like that.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Right. Okay, so how can you possibly know that?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, I can't know all possible worlds if they wouldn't.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Right, Exactly. So right off the bat, your initial claim is false.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, well, if this is a Philosophy 101 class, then you've completely and totally debunked me, sir. Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Wow, great.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I've debunked it. Great, great.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Well, so great, your initial claim is false. Glad you can admit that. Now you want to go to the dis. Disinformation topic. Well, one, I think a lot of the rhetoric that you're spewing is very divisive for our nation because a lot of the times you're assuming people's intentions on these things. Right. You're assuming that people are purposefully ignorant when you're in no position to actually know something like that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know if people are purposely ignorant or not actually unironically. I hold the individuals a lot less accountable than I do the client content creators.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Well, but you don't talk to people like that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, I usually am talking to content creators even. Most of the people in here, I think are like on TikTok or something else. A lot of these. I've seen a lot of these faces.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Okay, so that's an assumption without any evidence.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Hold on. I'm saying that I'm assuming without evidence that most of the people that I talk to tend to be like.

[Trump Supporter 5]

No, no, most of the people in this room. That's what you're assuming. Okay, so anyways, again, you're assuming the intentions of these people, and that's not true. You're assuming that we're part of. Of this MAGA cult, which is not true at all.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I mean, the guy here earlier literally said that Trump.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Well, okay, okay, maybe some people, right? And I don't believe that Trump can do no wrong. And I think most Republicans believe that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Right.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I'm disgusted by some of his personal behavior. I think his stance is on abortion. He's gone way too far left.

[Trump Supporter 1]

You've been voted out by the majority.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Hey, well, your original claim was false, so that's great to get here.

[Trump Supporter 4]

So, you know, you made the claim that MAGA wouldn't exist or make America wouldn't exist without all the misinformation. Obviously not a true statement. I think you just admitted that.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, I mean, likely they would. I can't prove that 100%. Okay.

[Trump Supporter 4]

And I mean, and this started way back during the Reagan years, so, you.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Know that I think it's accelerated a lot with Social media, and it's accelerated a lot under Trump and maga because Trump is the first guy that. That just lies with impunity, and there's no accountability on the conservative side when he does so.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Speaking of people who believe in Maggie, it seems like based off of the rhetoric that you have said, all of the people in here and the millions of people who kind of fall into that umbrella of believing in make America great again, you act like we're some cult and we're some evil people. All of us are human. Every person in this room.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I mean, asylum seekers are human. Illegal immigrants are human. But you guys talk about deporting.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Please stop interrupting me. I'm talking, I'm talking.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, you're virtual.

[Trump Supporter 4]

I'm talking. I'm talking. I'm talking. I'm talking.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, so am I.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Let's be respectful.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't have to be.

[Trump Supporter 4]

So everyone here in this room is human. And people who are make America great again and who go to these Trump rallies love each other and love other people and love humans and want to, you know, they want to see the betterment of society and betterment of everybody in this country.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Return to your se.

[Trump Supporter 5]

What's up, Stephen? Okay, so again, I think that the misinformation is far more rampant on your side.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Kamala Harris, Project 2025.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Huge misinformation, not Trump's.

[Stephen Bonnell]

What's the misinformation? Trump. Trump's. Vance probably supports, and I think Trump broadly supports Trump.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Is Trump.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Vance, Vance.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Yeah, you can say he supports a.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Lot of things as a central candidate.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Yeah.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Can VPs and presidents disagree with each other?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I guess Pence and him disagree quite a bit.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I guess that's fine. Okay. And there have been plenty of examples, examples of this in the past, like McKinley and Roosevelt disagreed staunchly. Okay. So this is not rare. Project 2025 is Kamala Harris's primary talking point, and it is not Trump's agenda. Trump has his own agenda published on his website, Agenda 47. There are some overlaps there. He agrees with some things in that project, but not all of them. The primary one being, again, Kamala Harris biggest talking point, which is that Trump is going to institute a national abortion ban, which he has publicly disavowed.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Well, I think the problem was, for a long time, I don't think he would say no to that, although I think he has said that he wouldn't vote on it.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Over and over again, he said no.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I've heard him go back and forth on. Personally, I don't like the Project 2025 talking point. I think it's kind of cringe.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I don't even know if it's misinformation.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Would I go as far as to call it misinformation? I'm not sure why. But even if I would call it.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Why wouldn't you call it misinformation?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Does it because it's. Because it's written by a conservative think tank?

[Trump Supporter 5]

Okay, so what?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Hold on. Well, I might say that if even if I were to grant that as to be misinformation, it's nowhere near on the level of Haitians are eating cats and dogs. Okay.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Do you think that I actually argue totally the opposite, Right? I think that it definitely is on that level, considering she's prescribing Trump's entire policy platform, trying to claim that Trump's entire policy platform platform is something that it isn't. And there are lots of things that Republicans disagree in that policy.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Donald Trump, if he wanted. And it's a lie, and if Donald Trump wanted to fight against it, maybe he could just have a policy platform. And maybe he does have a policy platform.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Agenda 47. It's on his website.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yeah, I've read it. Yeah, he does joke. It's things like, we're going to bring down the interest rates. He can't even do that. Same thing with Kamala Harris policy platform. Her entire section on housing is four paragraphs. Yeah, but she can't bring down interest rates. At the very least, there's some solid stuff there, even if I think it's a little bit too far.

[Trump Supporter 5]

But are you saying there's no policy proposals at all?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I'm saying that Donald Trump. When Donald Trump. Trump speaks, he doesn't talk.

[Trump Supporter 5]

It's more fleshed out than her plan.

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, I don't think so.

[Trump Supporter 5]

Okay. Her entire housing section is four paragraphs. In one of them, I would hardly count paragraph.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think it's one paragraph.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Four times.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Four times better.

[Trump Supporter 1]

Okay, please return to your seat.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Now. Choose someone from the circle to debate again for another 10 minutes, but based.

[Trump Supporter 2]

On a claim of their choice.

[Stephen Bonnell]

This one right over here. I chose you because you'll break my heart the most. Because you sound somewhat reasonable, intelligent, but you just say the craziest things. And. Yeah, so now I'm just gonna try to figure out for 10 minutes if you really believe it or if you're hardcore just carrying water for some political side.

[Trump Supporter 2]

So, Stephen, my claim is that President Biden should pardon President Trump no matter who wins the election. President Biden ran on Unity. When he came and gave that inauguration speech on January 20, 2021, he wanted to unify the country. The best way for President Biden to leave office is to pardon President Trump and to try to bring the country together. I think, as a MAGA movement, 75 million people may look at Biden and say, look, we have our political disagreements with this guy, but the fact that he pardoned Trump much like Gerald Ford did, much like there's examples in our country of folks reaching across the aisle and doing at that point, I think you could probably argue that Trump has the authority to pardon himself. Largely these cases will drop if he doesn't win the election. But I think it would be a very powerful signal for the unity of the country for President Biden to pardon him.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think there are at least three really good reasons why that should absolutely never happen. Okay, so the first one is Donald Trump doesn't need to be pardoned because the Supreme Court's already said that the president can enjoy full and absolute criminal immunity when he's doing his job. So if he's already gotten that carve out from the Supreme Court, why should he need any more help to be pardoned for any other types of crimes? Unless we're saying that he did crimes that weren't even part of the job of being the president. I would say that's the first one. Do you want to do the other two or do you want to go first? The other two. The second one is, I think that Donald Trump has done abhorrent things in the abuse of office that I think he absolutely should be accountable for. I think that he should answer for these things. I think it is destructive to lead this idea that you can actually act above the law and get away with it. And I think for the third point, the idea that Democrats have to be the ones that continue to come to the table and be like, okay, we're gonna do this, or, okay, we're gonna try to heal, and okay, we're gonna do unity. When you've got Biden up here saying, like, I'm gonna be a president for everybody. I'm gonna do unity. And then Donald Trump is saying things like, immigrants are the poison to the lifeblood of this nation, like, crazy stuff like this, like the back and forth of conservatives being unhinged and Democrats having to, like, apologize for behavior, I don't like the double standard anymore. I don't think you can exists inside of it.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay, let's talk about President Biden and the unity claim. You do agree that he ran on the platform of unity and the theme of his inauguration. We can both agree on that, right, Stephen?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Yep.

[Trump Supporter 2]

When he called MAGA Republicans a threat to democracy, was that a sign of unity?

[Stephen Bonnell]

That speech absolutely is. Really? Yes. If you read the whole speech, he says over and over again in a totally pointless manner because. And I'm aware, because I'm part of the TikTok culture as well. He said over and over again, not even most Republicans are MAGA Republicans. When he said MAGA Republicans, he was talking about the subsection of people that deny the results of the last election, that don't even believe in things like institutions or peaceful transfers of power or the country operating as like a cohesive unit. He spells out over and over again that he's not talking about all conservatives, but people just clip that one line and then the picture with the red behind him and say, oh, my God, look at what he was saying.

[Trump Supporter 2]

As a matter of fact, though, 72% of Republicans believe that there were serious issues in the 2020 election. Just as a matter of fact.

[Stephen Bonnell]

But why do they believe that?

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, but just as a matter of empirical fact. So you've got 70% of 75 million people believe that you are still making a very wide and sweeping statement about working class Americans, black, white, Hispanic Americans saying that they're a threat to democracy.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I don't know if all of them necessarily don't believe, like hardcore, that there was, like, voter rigging as opposed to the media was biased or something, because Trump kind of used to dance around those claims. Sure. But for as much as people believe that there were issues with the election, it's because Donald Trump. Donald Trump told them. That's it. And a lot of the lies that started out in the Trump camp we know now were completely and wholly fabricated. Everything having to do with that State Farm video was a total lie from the very beginning. Everything having to do with Dominion Voting Machines was a total lie from the very beginning. There are so many of these claims that when you look at the genesis of them, they were either fabricated or were maliciously constructed.

[Trump Supporter 2]

But doesn't President Biden have an obligation to be a president for all Americans, even those who vehemently disagree with him?

[Stephen Bonnell]

When you say vehemently disagree, yes. But for people that don't believe in the results of the election, this is the issue, is that conservatives have pushed the boundaries of what you can tolerate in a society that can function together. Right. If a conservative wants to come out and say, I think that we need small government, and I don't believe in the government providing all this relief and all this or whatever. And I think we should have small government or whatever. Okay, I disagree with that. That's fine, whatever. We can still exist together and we can argue, okay? But when people are saying there was a phone call into a radio show where the guy's talking about his father in law is turning away FEMA because he thinks that FEMA's gonna steal his house, we are breaking down institutions to a point to where we can't function. We need institutions. As much as we might hate them, we need them to function. And conservatives spend every breath undermining them. And that is becoming dysfunctional. I don't know what you're supposed to do in that circumstance.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, I think what you can do is, and I'm not saying this isn't without risk, there's certainly some negative optics to it, but I would say that that gesture, I'll tell you, you take away the ammunition from one side. If you say, I'm going to extend the olive branch. And by the way, even if it's purely ceremonial and symbolic, even if the president can end up pardoning himself, even if President Trump wins, then the question becomes, why doesn't Biden do that as a symbol of genuine unity?

[Stephen Bonnell]

Genuine unity, Steve, I don't think, I don't think there is an olive branch that would be accepted. I don't think anybody would see it as any type of. I think that arguably I've seen back and forth on this that Merrick Garland probably dragged his feet on prosecuting Trump and in appointing Jack Smith and all the charges that were filed and that that was a massive mistake, that he shouldn't have waited on, that, that should have been something he moved much quicker on. But because of this obsession with liberals and the media, to appear unbiased and to be nice to both sides and to treat both sides equally even when in my opinion, obviously one side is acting far more recklessly, it's destroying the country. We talked about Israel, Palestine earlier. We can talk about, like children in the store when somebody is acting inappropriately or they're acting out of line or they're behaving in a way that is unsustainable. That behavior has to be brought in line somehow. You cannot run a ship when half the people are trying to row in the other direction. And right now, conservatives are undermining every single facet of this country. And I don't know how we're supposed to function in that environment, right? Where we say, like, okay, well, we're gonna go ahead and pardon Trump? What if we pardon Trump and then he just commits more crimes? Or what if we pardon Trump and then the next Republican president goes, well, I can probably get away with it because they're gonna cuck out for unity in the end, so it'll be great. Right. What do you do at that point?

[Trump Supporter 2]

I disagree with you on conservatives threatening the country. I would even say that Democrats don't threaten the country. I think most Americans want a secure border, an economy that works for everybody, good education. To your point about, you know, quibbles over tax policy and regulation, do you believe that a supporter of the deportation of illegal migrants falls into that category of a radical conservative?

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think that's a radical position, but I don't think that's like a beyond the pale position.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Okay.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think it's done for a variety of reasons, but no, I don't think it's beyond the pale. Right.

[Trump Supporter 2]

And I mean, look, Axios Ipsos found this in April that 55% of Americans, not just conservatives, Americans, support the mass deportation of illegal migrants. 46% of Democrats do. Why do you think that is? When you look at places like Chicago and New York? Why longtime.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I think it can be for a variety of reasons, but again, this isn't an issue. It's like the minimum wage. I think that we probably need a minimum wage, but I don't think that agreeing or disagreeing on this makes it un American. Same thing with, like, abortion, which is way more charged. I don't think it makes you un American. Things like immunity for crimes for the president. That's a deeply un American value. That the president can't be charged with criminal behavior, even in the role of his job. That in my opinion, that's deeply un American. The undermining of all the institutions, that America should have no role as, like, a world leader. That we look at immigrants as enemies or that we don't want to trade with anybody. Because you just want to. These things are. I wouldn't say the trade thing. I would say, like, the immunity thing. Are a really big one. The idea of America needing to recede from the world is a big one. The idea of, like, the weaponizing of all of the DOJ that Trump wants to do. These are things that deeply concern me. Talking about terminating the Constitution and all of these things. Yeah.

[Trump Supporter 2]

So we can have our disagreements. There's a lot there we could pick up. We've only got a couple minutes left. You are an American. I'm an American. I believe that you love this country, I believe that you want the best for this country, the best for your family. Donald Trump wins on November 5th. Genuinely. Genuinely. What is one piece of advice you give him?

[Stephen Bonnell]

If Donald Trump wins, what is one piece of advice that you give him? Donald Trump, after he's gone, will have family members that remain in this world, that carry his name through the world. He will have a legacy. He'll have a reputation. And that the way that he acts in his last four years as president will be remembered for the rest of history for as long as America continues to exist. And that he has an opportunity in his second term, at least, to right some of the wrongs of the first term or to prove people like me wrong, at least when I said that the United States would become an authoritarian hellhole or whatever else, that he has an opportunity to prove people like me wrong. And I hope that he would take advantage of that.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I think that'd be great. I think that would be great for the country, to tell you the truth. Is there one policy, one position that you agree with Donald Trump on, even remotely?

[Stephen Bonnell]

The problem is I just don't like his thought process. So there are gonna be things that we agree on, but we're gonna agree on them for totally different reasons.

[Trump Supporter 2]

That's an example.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Like, in general, I'm not as big on, like, DEI or affirmative action type stuff. I think for a variety of reasons, has a lot of different issues. I think that having a secure border is really important. Arguably, one of the most important things about having a country is having a border. I think the Democrats, like, broadly agree that as well. I think that, yeah, I could probably find other things, but, like, our agreements are going to be very roundabout. We're not getting here the same way. But I think the creation of the Space Force was good. Obviously, all the conservatives hate it, but I thought warp speed was a tremendous achievement of capitalism, of pharmaceuticals, of the United States and U.S. leadership. Sorry, go ahead.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, I think the big picture, though, and can we just give. Can we give him a round of applause?

[Stephen Bonnell]

No, I don't want a round of applause. Oh, my God.

[Trump Supporter 2]

I'm a big believer, Stephen, that when we come together as a country and have conversations, difficult conversations, like, we may not walk away saying, well, I agree with Stephen or I agree with James, or I agree with any of the folks here, but you walk away saying, that's a person, that's an American. We can disagree agreeably. And I might understand for just a moment their perspective. So I want to thank you for being here. I think that the biggest thing for the country going forward, in a sense, is how do we have more debate, not less. More disagreement, not less, unfortunately.

[Stephen Bonnell]

I totally disagree with you. I was there a while ago, though. It's not enough to just have conversations anymore. I think we have to start taking steps in an actual direction. I think right now we are talking ourselves off a ledge. And I notice a lot of times when I have challenging conversations with people, I get all of these comments that pop up, whether it's me talking to Peterson, Shapiro, Owens, of like, what a great civil conversation. But at the end of the day, nobody's mind comes away changed and everybody still feels the same way, and we're still accelerating off of each other faster than we ever have been before. But at least we're having good conversations on the way down to the base of the cliff, I guess.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Well, let me end.

[Stephen Bonnell]

This is the start.

[Trump Supporter 2]

Let me end on a bipartisan note, Stephen. Let's not just make debate great again. Let's build it back better.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Okay, thanks, Neil. I think I did about as well as I could have. I mean, there's always more like itty bitty pieces of factual information that I could have, but it's hard to keep track of everything. But I think it was okay. Maybe I could have been meaner to some people, but I'm okay.

[Trump Supporter 5]

I think that James did really well. I think that Destiny himself did really well, too. I think that Destiny is probably the best debater in the space on either side. So I think that we did really well against him, considering that fact. I think that debate is important, I guess, kind of counter to what Destiny thinks. Even though he's a professional debater.

[Trump Supporter 4]

Part of democracy is talking. You know, we see these global conflicts in Israel. What's happening with Russia and Ukraine is because people aren't talking. I think that the Republican Party today and President Trump, we want peace. We want to bring people back to the talking table and for people to be civil.

[Trump Supporter 2]

So there were some personal attacks here and there, but I think for the most part, everybody stayed on the substance of the issue. There were some heated moments. That's okay. But I think we all walked away not necessarily convinced that the other side is really right and we're wrong, but at least we see where the other side is coming from and that helps bring this country together.

[Stephen Bonnell]

Don't forget to subscribe to Surrounded wherever you get your podcasts so that you don't miss an episode. And if you want to watch the video version of surrounded. Subscribe to Jubilee on YouTube.