Doctor Mike vs 20 RFK Jr. Supporters

Summary

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Surrounded – Doctor Mike vs 20 RFK Jr. Supporters

Jubilee Media | December 7, 2025
Theme:
One-on-many debate: Dr. Mike, a popular board-certified family physician and YouTuber, sits down in the center of a room to field rounds of one-on-one challenges from a group of ardent RFK Jr. supporters. The episode tackles RFK Jr.’s tenure as Secretary of Health and Human Services, cuts to public health research, government trust, vaccines, lifestyle reform, the influence of big pharma versus big supplement, and the boundaries of personal and governmental responsibility for health.

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Episode Overview

This episode of Surrounded brings Dr. Mike into heated yet civil discourse with 15+ vocal supporters of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK Jr.), who now serves as Secretary of Health and Human Services. Throughout rotating conversations, Dr. Mike grapples with sharply contrasting beliefs on the structure of American public health, RFK’s reforms, government and pharma influence, and the future of American healthcare. The debate cycles through topics such as government research funding, the pharma-vs-supplement debate, big agriculture, transparency, health misinformation, and who should shoulder the weight of keeping Americans well.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Critique of RFK Jr.’s Cuts to Public Health Research

[02:01, 08:21]

• Dr. Mike opens by criticizing RFK Jr.'s leadership, asserting that research budgets for NIH and CDC have been “absolutely decimated,” citing specific multi-billion dollar losses to cancer, HIV, ALS, maternal health, environmental health, and newborn screening programs.

• He argues that, for public health improvement, rigorous research and institutionally supported programs are essential.

  “In order to do good public health... we need to do research. And currently the NIH, the CDC budgets for research have been absolutely decimated by billions of dollars.”
  (Dr. Mike, 08:21)

Supporter Counterpoint:

• Supporters repeatedly challenge the utility of past investments, noting that Americans are “fat and they are sick,” despite decades of high funding for public health.

• They argue that more research and funding in the old system cannot solve the country’s escalating chronic disease crisis.

  "The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.”
  (RFK Jr. Supporter 1, 16:34)

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2. Individual Responsibility vs. Societal Solutions in Health

[09:32–17:17]

• Supporters argue that responsibility for healthy living rests foremost on individuals rather than on government or healthcare intervention, even sharing personal narratives of overcoming hardship to make healthy choices.

• Dr. Mike acknowledges individual responsibility but stresses that policies and built environments make healthy choices more viable for larger populations.

  “Now, this is my viewpoint... I think individual responsibility is incredibly important... But from a societal perspective, let's... make a city more walkable... more parks, programs for kids... Those are societal things politicians can get behind.”
  (Dr. Mike, 15:17)

• Supporters counter that government “consumerocracy”—where people vote with their purchasing power, not their ballots—would be more effective than legislation.

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3. Transparency, Corruption, and Pharma-Big Government Relationships

[06:41, 51:02–56:42]

• Supporters allege deep corruption in government-health-pharma relationships, referencing “revolving doors” and claiming agencies are financially beholden to industry interests.

• Dr. Mike asks where the corruption line should be drawn, noting that pharma is not the only multi-billion industry—pointing to the $2 trillion wellness & supplement space and highlighting the absence of equivalent scrutiny.

  “Why are you only interested in conflicts of interest for pharma when the supplement wellness industry is 3,4x? ...”
  (Dr. Mike, 53:15)

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4. Big Pharma vs. Big Supplement: Who Is More Trustworthy?

[50:32–61:17]

• Dr. Mike questions why RFK supporters distrust Big Pharma but not Big Supplement, despite the latter’s toxicity incidents, lack of mandatory efficacy proofs, and massive market size.

• Supporters argue that Big Pharma “merging with government” and its direct influence on health policy is unique and far more dangerous than supplement marketers, whose wares are elective.

  “It's still your personal choice to take pharmaceuticals. Yes, absolutely, that's true. But pharmaceuticals at least have to submit something to prove that they work... But what me and you created today [as a supplement], no one has to prove anything.”
  (Dr. Mike, 55:23)

• Supporters maintain supplement risk is smaller because it is less entwined with regulatory power, even though Dr. Mike stresses that deceptive marketing can equally harm public trust and health outcomes.

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5. Public Trust, COVID, and the Doctor–Patient Relationship

[24:42–40:28]

• Some supporters recount personal stories from the COVID pandemic, citing a lack of trust in standard medical pathways, censorship, and a sense of patient abandonment as key reasons for seeking alternative voices like RFK Jr.
• Dr. Mike listens empathetically and shares his own experience of trying innovative approaches to patient behavior change, only to encounter the limits of individual interventions without scalable support.

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6. Fluoride and Chemicals in the Water

[19:26–24:36]

• The debate pivots to government-mandated water fluoridation and the ethics/practicality of such interventions.
• Dr. Mike engages in a detailed discussion on risk-benefit analysis, clarifying scientific terminology (“all water is a chemical!”), and emphasizing the complexity of public health decision-making.

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7. Medical Claims, Statistics, and RFK Jr.'s Track Record

[40:53–48:08, 105:23–107:36]

• Dr. Mike raises concerns about RFK Jr. repeatedly making inaccurate, misleading, or easily fact-checked public statements as HHS Secretary (e.g., U.S. child diabetes rates, causes of autism).

• Supporters concede he may misspeak, but suggest “intentions are good” and his willingness to retract claims is itself a sign of transparency.

  “So often what we can do with Kennedy is we can still paint him in bad faith... even if that's not our intention.”
  (RFK Jr. Supporter 3, 41:14) “So what happened in the two weeks from when he said Tylenol did cause autism to when it didn't? What new information came out?”
  (Dr. Mike, 106:19)

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8. Bias, Funding, and Sunshine Laws

[46:41–48:08, 102:12–103:28]

• Dr. Mike pushes back on claims that only doctors are subject to industry bias, pointing out that RFK Jr.'s own legal settlements and activist funding are not held to public disclosure.

• Both sides agree that transparency (vs. hidden bias) is more crucial than simply the presence or absence of funding ties.

  “I think bias that is hidden is a bad thing.”
  (Dr. Mike, 101:45)

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9. Prevention vs. Cure – The Role of Lifestyle

[10:18–15:17, 65:33–66:27]

• Lifestyle interventions, particularly improving VO2 max and regenerative agriculture, are championed as the “map out of chronic disease.”
• Dr. Mike agrees on the fundamental importance of lifestyle but holds that research and policy can help scale what works and serve those unable to make changes unaided.

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10. Final Reflections: Polarization and the Need for Bridge-Building

[108:18–108:54]

• Dr. Mike and some supporters agree that debate has become weaponized and tribal, to the detriment of genuine improvements in public health—each side feeling that their facts and intentions are being misunderstood.

  “Somehow the information has been weaponized and we're fighting. And that needs to end. And someone needs to be big enough to bridge that gap.”
  (Dr. Mike, 108:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Research Cuts
  “We've terminated $3.8 billion into cancer, HIV, ALS and maternal health... The entire NIH CDC budgets have been cut in half.”
  (Dr. Mike, 08:21)

• On Behavior Change
  “It's really simple. It's sunlight, it's being active... it's eating food that comes from regenerative agriculture. It's not rocket science... I just think that you are a bit confused about where we should be putting our emphasis.”
  (RFK Jr. Supporter 1, 11:36)

• On Mask Science
  “N95 masks actually work quite well for the COVID virus... the way that those particles move actually makes them more readily captured by that mask. Isn't that interesting how... what we perceive to be the logical answer can be disproven?”
  (Dr. Mike, 05:13)

• On Chemical Risk
  “Oxygen’s a chemical, water’s a chemical... So how do you decide what a chemical is? Is dihydrogen monoxide a chemical in your book?”
  (Dr. Mike, 23:14)

• On Pharma & Supplements
  “Pharmaceuticals at least have to submit something to prove that they work, that they have some safety profile. But what me and you created today, no one has to prove anything.”
  (Dr. Mike, 55:23)

• Personal Story – Emergency
  “I was on an airplane... exhausted... ‘Is there a doctor on board?’... I help one individual. There's a second emergency, I help the second. There's a third. Do I need props? Do I need money? I couldn’t care less. I want to help people. These are the type of people we need.”
  (Dr. Mike, 85:43)

• Pointed Critique on RFK Jr.
  “Instead of going after those issues Secretary Kennedy’s calling me a profit monger. Aren’t you mad at that?”
  (Dr. Mike, 87:48)

• On Accepting Error
  “If you brought back multiple videos on my YouTube channel... where we talk about every mistake we made... because ultimately, it’s about trying to do better, not to score political points.”
  (Dr. Mike, 40:28)

• On Ending the Weaponization of Misinformation
  “Someone needs to be big enough to bridge that gap. Instead of focusing on better transfer, transparency, more scientific rigor, we instead have an individual who... takes anecdote over hard data. And ultimately that's going to make worse outcomes for all of us.”
  (Dr. Mike, 108:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening challenge & audience format – 00:00–02:01
• Research funding cuts & effectiveness debate – 08:21–11:07
• Lifestyle change vs. research spending – 11:07–15:17
• Role of government vs. individual choice – 13:25–14:56
• Fluoride & “chemicals” in water – 19:26–24:36
• Doctor-patient trust, COVID, “medical tyranny” – 24:52–40:28
• Pharma vs. big supplement, market influence – 50:32–61:17
• Debate over medical facts & Kennedy’s public statements – 40:53–48:08, 105:23–107:36
• Transparency, bias, and funding disclosure – 46:41–48:08; 101:45–104:21
• Final exchanges & meta-reflection on polarization – 108:18–108:54

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Tone and Takeaways

• Discussions are at turns impassioned, personal, and deeply skeptical.
• Dr. Mike aims for directness, empathy, and transparency—frequently conceding when a point is fair, while defending the necessity of policy, research, and humility in medicine.
• Supporters are unwaveringly suspicious of centralized health authority and fervently believe in the necessity of “blowing up” a broken system.

Bottom Line

The episode vividly displays the vast gulf in trust and priorities between the medical establishment (represented by Dr. Mike) and today’s anti-establishment health reformers (RFK Jr. supporters). Common ground emerges in agreements on systemic bloat, the need for transparency, and the dangers of health misinformation—yet agreement on solutions, facts, and leadership remains elusive. There are calls, on both sides, for empathy and bridge-building, even as deep divides about the future of American health remain.

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Transcript

[Dr. Mike]

Administrators have ballooned beyond any reasonable level. Pharmaceutical companies have no transparency. And instead of going after those issues, Secretary Kennedy's calling me a profit monger. Aren't you mad at that? Yes, I absolutely am.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

[Dr. Mike]

Agreed.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

It's failed.

[Dr. Mike]

Is it also insanity to say, since this failed, better not do anything and cut it all together?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

He's not saying better not do anything.

[Dr. Mike]

And cut it in half. From Jubilee Media this is the Surrounded podcast where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreers. In the center today, once again, is the family physician and YouTuber Dr. Mike. He'll be facing 15 RFK junior supporters. Dr. Mike will debate them one on one until they're voted out by their peers and replaced by someone new. Let's get into it. Hi, I'm Dr. Mike, board certified family medicine physician and one of the largest health educators on social media. And today I'm surrounded by 15 RFK Jr. Supporters.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[Dr. Mike]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[Dr. Mike]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[Dr. Mike]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[Dr. Mike]

My first rounded claim is that RFK Jr. Is decimating public health and should step down as Secretary of Health and Human Services.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Hello there. Hello.

[Dr. Mike]

Hello.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Dr. Mike.

[Dr. Mike]

Nice to meet you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Nice to meet you.

[Dr. Mike]

How do you feel about my claim?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I think your claim is absurd because we've got someone that is actually challenging, which is science. I mean science is about scrutiny, not orwelling obedience. And if we want to find the truth, we should always have both sides of the story and check out both sides and then find what the truth is.

[Dr. Mike]

That's interesting because in some ways I agree with your statement. We should absolutely be skeptical. And science is about proving our Initial thoughts wrong. When we do research, for example, we try and look at not just our hypothesis of what we think is going to happen. We actually try to prove the null hypothesis. We actually try to design research that disagrees with us. So I'm curious why you think Secretary Kennedy right now is the correct pick versus what you claim to be the other side.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Let's put it this way. We had to live through the medical tyranny of COVID and his organization, Children's Health Defense, was on the front line of pushing back against that tyranny. I was part of that. I did protests, and I started a rally in Beverly Hills that was very popular. By the end of the year, we had 4 to 6,000 people marching through the streets saying, enough is enough. You know, they first, like Fauci told us, oh, you know, the masks don't work. And then, oh, you need to wear a mask. And then it was two masks. So again, the goalposts just kept moving and moving, and we knew it was just baloney. I mean, anybody can smell a rat. And, you know, we just see a lot of the same pattern. Like during hiv, for instance. Remember that Bactrim, they kind of The NIH and the government were demonizing this with doctors. And then we find out that it actually does help hiv, but they didn't want to cure because they wanted to push azt, which made a lot of money for big Pharma. Same thing happened during COVID And we had two doctors here in California that had a 99% success rate. It was Brian Tyson and George Farid, and they had 7,000 patients that they helped. 99%, which is better than the COVID 19 shot, because once we saw people taking those shots, we saw people dropping like flies.

[Dr. Mike]

I feel like we took a lot of topics there and we tried to put them together. So it's gonna be difficult for me to reply to you. Let's start with the idea of moving the goalposts. Okay? So, you know in science, we're always learning, right? As a doctor, the things that I recommend today will likely change in 10 years and 20 years, because as knowledge evolves, we're gonna make new recommendations. Is that fair to say?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

It's fair to say, but this is months. Okay. And we know that a virus is 0.3 micron. We see the holes in the mask. You really think that that's gonna hold a virus? I mean, we see what virologists wear. It's like a spacesuit.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah. So this is really interesting. I love that you point out the particle size. And, you know, there's actually a unique principle with particle movements that the reason why N95 masks actually work quite well for the COVID virus, because even when something is smaller than the size of the mask, the pores within the mask, the way that those particles move, actually makes them more readily captured by that mask. Isn't that interesting how sometimes what we perceive to be the logical answer sometimes can be disproven in science? And this goes to show in the same way that we made mistakes in the past.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, the reason why I'm bringing this up is because they were putting masks on people. So now bacteria is gigantic compared to a virus. We know that, right?

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah, they're large.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

And my friend, by the way, was a biology research professor at ucla, so I've learned a. A lot from him. And, you know, he went to a very established school, Cambridge University, and that's what he dealt with. That's why he said, this is nonsense. So I'm going to listen to the Experts, which is Dr. Elliot Haymoff, and look at, you know, people were getting sick and worse when they were wearing masks because they were forcing themselves to breathe the very bacteria that was dangerous.

[Dr. Mike]

So when I'm in the hospital and I'm treating patients who have COVID 19, for example, I wear an N95 mask. You think I'm wearing that mask to potentially make myself more sick instead of protecting myself from the patient who has COVID 19?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, I believe that you believe that it works. You know, I believe that you believe that because the medical industry, I believe, has been corrupt for a long time.

[Dr. Mike]

What makes it corrupt?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, there's an interest. You know, people have special interests. You know, it's a revolving door. When you look at a lot of these NIH or niaid, these people have been funded by big Pharma, and then they go in the medical industry. So to me, me, that shows corruption.

[Dr. Mike]

So if someone is funded by big Pharma, does that automatically make them corrupt?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Not necessarily because there are honest people, but the fact that they censored. Even Mark Zuckerberg was asked in the Senate floor if he was being coerced by the government to shut down free speech. When it came to Covid. We had a friend who, her best friend died of COVID shots, two of them. And she had these huge boils all over her legs. And they sent her home. They did not report with vaers that that was. That they actually didn't want to even talk about, which shows me corruption. Then I had a friend, Dr. Simone Gould, that was treating patients with early treatment and the Master of Business association comes to her, which doesn't have a medical license, and threatened to fire her, which she did. She got fired. That is called medical tyranny.

[Dr. Mike]

Okay, pause.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Voted out. Sorry.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

[Dr. Mike]

Appreciate you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay. Appreciate.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Hello.

[Dr. Mike]

Hello, sir, how are you?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Brian.

[Dr. Mike]

Pleasure. Brian, nice to meet you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

So I have a few questions to start with just because I want to make sure that we're actually debating the topic that you would like to debate. To say that he's decimating public health. Are there specific measures that you would like to cover, to talk about that you believe constitutes to decimation?

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah. So where do we start? In order to do good public health, in order for me to know what treatments are right for my patients, we need to do research. And currently the nih, the CDC budgets for research have been absolutely decimated by billions of dollars. In fact, I wrote down a few of them, if you don't mind me sharing, because I think it's valuable to talk about. So we're not talking in abstract. For research, we've terminated $3.8 billion into cancer, HIV, ALS and maternal health, important subjects. The entire NIH CDC budgets have been cut in half. We've created an issue where in the Environmental Protection Agency for the Office of Research. We fired over 1,000 scientists who do that research to figure out if there's toxic pollutants that cause negative health outcomes. We've cut the CDC branch for environmental health tracking for lead and water safety. We've canceled NIH Diabetes Prevention Program that ran for 30 years. And we've eliminated the federal newborn screening advisory committee. So that's just a few of them.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay, so considering all of that before, when we had all of that money, where did that get us? Look at the state of America, of Americans health. And you tell me that the public is actually healthy. What RFK is doing is he is saying enough is enough. Something has to change. And I will say this very politely, but I think that you have to be insane. To say more is somehow going to get us out of the current public health crisis we have right now. Americans are fat and they are sick and it is not getting better. And taking more and more money and continuing to flush it down the toilet is not going to solve the problem. We know what will stop cancer dead in its tracks. We know what will stop all chronic disease dead in its tracks. Do you know what it is?

[Dr. Mike]

Lifestyle changes.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Lifestyle changes. The American Heart association has known about this for years. The most important predictor of longevity risk of chronic disease all cause mortality is VO2 max. So why aren't doctors, why isn't the government creating a public health system that says, you know what, we're going to focus on VO2 max? Because even if we stopped every dollar we had putting it into cancer research right now, and we took that money and we said, let's get people moving, let's increase their VO2 max, and cancer has stopped dead in its tracks. So the question is, when is enough enough to admit that the system you are a part of has drastically failed Americans in RFK Jr by the very fact of how he looks in his 70s does more to encourage people to live a healthy lifestyle and truly make America healthy again.

[Dr. Mike]

Very passionate. And I, I mean that with all sincerity because I mean, I'm not trying.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

To be an ass like I don't think you are.

[Dr. Mike]

I actually, I know you might feel like it's coming off aggressive, but I actually think it's passion and it's passion that I share. I think lifestyle changes are incredibly important. So in order to make these meaningful changes, in order to get people to eat healthier, to exercise more, that takes research dollars. In order to figure out what programs work like in New York, in my.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Home state, do you really think it takes research dollars? Yeah, because it's really simple. It's sunlight, it's being active, it's having a healthy home environment, it's eating food that comes from regenerative agriculture. It's not rocket science. It is really, really simple. But I think that the pharmaceutical industry tries to complicate it, to make people question it so that they run to their doctor. And I'll be very frank with you. I think that you have great intentions. I really do. And I'm really glad that it's you sitting here because I think part of the reason why these discussions get so heated is because both parties start thinking that the other party has bad intentions. I just think that you are a bit confused about where we should be putting our emphasis in putting our money.

[Dr. Mike]

So the difficulty, I know it sounds easy to say, let's get people moving. Let's get people eating healthy. So I work at a community health center. It's near impossible to change behaviors as simply as you put it. I've launched a program during my residency program where I as a physician, exercised with my patients. I brought them in to try and see if spending time with your doctor exercising, getting them to do it safely was a way to get them motivated. And we saw Some successes. But in order to have done that, we need to scale that, we need to trial that to see ultimately how behaviors change. For example, you've seen research where people say if you give people step counter and they walk 10,000 steps a day, they're healthier. Well, yeah, if you walk more, you move more, you're healthier. But when we actually looked at long term research of getting people step counters, it didn't change me.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

So you've literally just contradicted yourself. And unless you're saying we need to take that money that RFK Jr. Is cutting from the budget and we need to spend it on the approaches that we know work, then all you're doing is just supporting the system as is.

[Dr. Mike]

Did he take half the budget and make it for exercise?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Well, personally, I don't think that that's the government's role. And the reason why. The reason why I don't think it's the government's role is I'm going to tell you a story. And ultimately this is what it comes down to. Okay? I was in a halfway house in Newark, New Jersey. Okay? I could leave the halfway house because I was technically still an inmate and I could go to my job. All right? If I veered from that path, I could literally go back to prison. Okay? But eating healthy was so important to me that I broke the rules, went to Whole Foods and bought healthy food on an eight dollar an hour job that the halfway house took 20%. And I still did not make excuses. And I found a way to eat healthy, okay? Doctors, the federal government, it's never going to instill that in people. And I think that it's wrong to really place that responsibility on you. You do not have the tools in your toolbox to effectively change behavior in whether it's ego. I mean, like, I think you're a good tools.

[Dr. Mike]

Are we missing.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

I think it's more societal and it's more.

[Dr. Mike]

Well, you just said the government shouldn't be a part of it. So when you say societal, the president.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Would have more power right now with the bully pulpit than any form of legislation. And that's what I'm trying to say is that what RFK represents for so many people that support him, he represents a cultural shift that will have more power than any form of legislation. It's just like my political views. I do not believe in democracy. I believe in a consumerocracy. The laws, the politicians, the legislation, they will fail us regardless of which party it is. Okay? But right now, we could change the world if we all went out there and we made different consumer decisions.

[Dr. Mike]

We.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

You don't have to have one president change. You don't have to have one law change. This goes viral right here. People start talking about a consumerocracy, the world changes laws, politicians, legislations will never have that power. You are trying to fight a problem with force when the solution is power. And we have to shift from that.

[Dr. Mike]

Can I ask you something real quick? Just because before we shift topics, I think it's important. A lot of what you're saying I want to say back to you and you tell me if I'm seeing your point. Well, is that individual responsibility here is more important than societal responsibility for keeping people healthy. I respect your viewpoint. Now this is my viewpoint. And tell me what part of this you disagree with. I think individual responsibility is incredibly important. I try and instill that in all my patients that exercise is important. I try all different strategies to try and get them individually motivated. But from a societal perspective, let's for example, say we make a city more walkable, we make lighting more available, especially at night. We create more sidewalks, we make more parks, we create programs for kids to participate in after school sports programs. Those are societal things that politicians can get behind. Don't you think that will make it easier for individuals to be healthy?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

All of the money that you're advocating for and you're criticizing RFK Jr. For cutting in the budget, none of that money went to those things.

[Dr. Mike]

If you think diabetes prevention, how do you think we think about diabetes prevention?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Well, let me ask you this. How many people have diabetes right now? Has the number gone up since that program's been in effect for the past 30 years? So the question is, when is enough enough? The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

[Dr. Mike]

Agreed.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

It's failed.

[Dr. Mike]

Is it also insanity to say, since this failed, better not do anything and cut it all together?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

He's not saying better not do anything.

[Dr. Mike]

And cut it in half.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay, but is he doing nothing?

[Dr. Mike]

Yes. Tell me what he's done to encourage people to exercise.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay. What about the law in Texas that he passed with? I forget exactly what it was, but he's going around. He's essentially using what would be considered his bully pulpit, and he's trying to inspire people and make cultural changes, and.

[Dr. Mike]

Ultimately that's an inspirational figure and not be the head of Health and Human Services.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

So it's really simple. Where has legislation gotten us? We take all of our time, all of our energy, and all of our Budget and we put it into legislation. I agree.

[Dr. Mike]

It's been in fact, and here's the.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Deal, whether you want to admit it or not, when you have something like pharmaceutical companies funding 70% of research.

[Dr. Mike]

Do you think junk food is healthy?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

No.

[Dr. Mike]

Do you think burgers and fries are healthy?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Not at all.

[Dr. Mike]

Why? In the first month that Secretary Kennedy was put into office, he's sitting at a steak and shake talking about how brave it is that they're frying beef tallow.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Do not. Well, first of all, putting fries in beef tallow actually is not unhealthy.

[Dr. Mike]

But it's not about whether or not it's unhealthy. Do you think sitting at a steak and shake one of the leading contributors to our obesity.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

I do not agree. I do not.

[Dr. Mike]

Valuable.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

I do not agree with everything that he's done. I also.

[Dr. Mike]

What do you agree with besides the Texas individual?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

I think that before he was getting to office, he was supporting regenerative agriculture. I think that regenerative agriculture, it has the ability to change the world. I find it comical that people drive Teslas because supposedly they're scared about global warming and yet they eat vegetables and they have no idea that there's 550 gigatons of carbon in the air from topsoil depletion specifically rated to related to vegetable row crop farming. There's only 350 gigatons related to the burning of tops. I mean burning of carbon fuels. We could literally stop all the carbon in the air dead in its tracks, put it back in the soil in one year. If we switched over to regenerative agriculture. Why isn't that being talked about?

[Dr. Mike]

Because he cut $15 million from the PFAS farm program to track PFA PFA s, which are potentially toxic chemicals on farms. He's cutting these programs.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Once again.

It goes back to the consumer.

[Dr. Mike]

How can the consumer know about the farm?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Different choices. What do you mean? How can the suit. Like I said, I was in a halfway house, okay. I had everything against me and I still found a way because I believe.

[Dr. Mike]

What if that Whole Foods that you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Went to had toxic foods against me?

[Dr. Mike]

But what if.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

But it didn't. Sorry, Dr. Mike.

[Dr. Mike]

Appreciate it. Thank you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yep.

[Dr. Mike]

Hello. Hello.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Nice to meet you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Pleasure.

[Dr. Mike]

How are you? As well. I'm. I'm excited to be here because, you know, a lot of times when people do these debates, folks want to win and genuinely I want to learn from you guys and learn what we're doing wrong in healthcare that's impacting you. So I'M all ears.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I completely agree. It's not about winning. It's about getting to the truth. And I think we all can agree that we all want the truth. And that's why. That's one of the reasons why I support RFK is because he supports transparency, especially with like vaccines and health care and everything like that. Another thing about RFK is that he's working to get fluoride out of the water. Why do we have fluoride in the water in the first place? Is it for dental care? I think that's an individual thing. If you want strong teeth, you should probably just brush your teeth and floss. You know what I mean? You shouldn't rely on a government regulated system of our water system to give you good dental care. Like, I feel like there's ulterior motives.

[Dr. Mike]

Are you against government programs that try and help groups of people as opposed to just individuals?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Not necessarily. Just depends on what it is.

[Dr. Mike]

Well, because when we say in America that the chronic health diseases in children is going up, it is. And I think I agree with everyone here on that. Statistics don't lie. But one of those chronic issues is dental disease. So if we can do something, if.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Something can be improved by that, I think parents should stop giving their children so much sugar. Or maybe we should look at the food industry and ask why there's so much sugar in absolutely everything.

[Dr. Mike]

Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Are you going to bring up correlation?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

No.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yeah, you can walk and chew gum in the street.

[Dr. Mike]

So you can do both things. Like, why can't we encourage patients and parents to not overfeed their kids, added sugars and make government programs that improve children's health?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

But there's no point, like, why would I want water with an extra ingredient if I could just have pure water? You know what I mean? Why would I need a government organization?

[Dr. Mike]

You can buy water without fluoride, but.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Why should I have to buy it? I think water, obviously it's nothing's free, but like water without chemicals should be free to get. If I want to drink out of my faucet, I should be able to do that without having fluoride in it, without having to worry about fluoridosis or any other, like, you know, over fluoridation, you know, in my body. Why would I not be.

[Dr. Mike]

And you're privy to buying a filter to get rid of.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I'm not against that. But why should I have to go out and buy that?

[Dr. Mike]

Well, because we. Everything in health care or public health always has A trade off. Like if I'm giving anyone any medication, any therapy, there's always risks and benefits. So when we think about the benefit of putting fluoride in water in order to get kids to have healthier teeth, we think about the impact on the general population. And in fact, you're right. There's been some research that shows people who have high levels of fluoride, especially children. Actually, this doesn't apply to adults at all. But only for children. They can have neurologic issues.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Exactly.

[Dr. Mike]

However, it's very important to look at the numbers and the areas that were studied, because certain areas, like in Asia, they have naturally very high levels of fluoride, not added by the government, natural occurring fluoride. And those numbers are quite high. So it really depends on what that number is and what that safe number is.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

The thing about Asia is if. If that's naturally in the water, then people from Asia are naturally adapted to that, which means it wouldn't like.

[Dr. Mike]

So if you move to Asia, you would have neurologic issues.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

If you said it didn't apply to adults, then maybe not, because I'm.

[Dr. Mike]

As a child.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

As a child, probably. If you're not from that area, your body's not adapted to that. Which means if there's studies shown that people who have high levels of fluoride in their body have neurological issues, then yeah, I'm sure that they would. But also, on another note. Hold on one second. On another note, why? Because if there's fluoride in the water and fluoride in the toothpaste and chemicals in our food, there comes a point where these things start stacking up. And I would much rather have kids with cavities than kids with neurological issues. You know what I mean?

[Dr. Mike]

That's a false choice. You're not choosing kids with neurologic disease or cavities. That's not really the two choices you're making when you're making that decision.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

So then what's the choice?

[Dr. Mike]

So I guess my question to you is when you say chemicals, like, oxygen's a chemical, water's a chemical. So how do. I am trying to really get down to the core of your argument to better understand you. I'm not trying to get you in a gun, I promise. So, like, how do you decide what a chemical is? Is dihydrogen monoxide a chemical in your book Dihydro.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Can you. Can you give me the short version?

[Dr. Mike]

Di. Hydrogen monoxide.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Is that oxygen?

[Dr. Mike]

No, that's water.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Water. Oh, water.

[Dr. Mike]

But, like, that's what I'm saying like.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

You could make a chemist or anything.

[Dr. Mike]

But I'm not. Again, I'm not trying to trick you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

No, no, that's a point is that's a compound chemical. There's a thing. But there's a difference between endogenous chemicals, things that I can make my body makes. Right, right. And exogenous chemicals that.

[Dr. Mike]

But does your body make water?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Does my body make fluoride?

[Dr. Mike]

But does your body make water? You need water to live.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I need water to live. That okay. But my body is 72% water, which means that I am fully made of water like I was.

[Dr. Mike]

We need essential amino acids.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

They're born with water. You know what I mean? I wasn't born with fluoride.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah, but the water came from your parent.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

My what? Yeah, my parent, of course, who got.

[Dr. Mike]

Water from the environment.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

That's fine. But like. So where did the first single celled amoeba get the water from? You know what I mean? Like we all have. We've all. Any living being has water. Right. But not every need the water to survive. We're not here to debate about water. So. So what's your point?

[Dr. Mike]

My point is how do you decide what's a bad chemical versus a good chemical?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

The effects on the body.

[Dr. Mike]

Right. We're out of time. Okay, thank you so much.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Nice to you.

[Dr. Mike]

My next surrounded claim is that the Maha movement is sabotaging the doctor patient relationship.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Hi doctor.

[Dr. Mike]

Hello. Pleasure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Pleasure to meet you. Okay, so repeat your claim for me.

[Dr. Mike]

My claim is that the Maha movement is sabotaging the doctor patient relationship.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay. So for me, I'm going to take this back to Covid and I don't want to stay on this topic. I had the delta variant and I went to the doctors and I told them I'm sick, tested positive. And my doctor told me, go home until you cannot breathe. At the same time, we didn't have any of the monochromatic.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Yeah.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

We didn't have any of the monoclonic antibodies. We weren't offered any therapies where I was listening to doctors and then watching them be censored. So I think if anything damaged the doctor patient relationship, that was it for me. I actually had a friend run up to my house from Huntington beach about a two hour drive. Brought me azithromycin, hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Within 48 hours I started to recover.

[Dr. Mike]

Wow. It's a lot of drugs.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yeah. But at the same time, I think that that hurt the doctor patient relationship. More than anything else.

[Dr. Mike]

Because your doctor sent you home without treatment.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, that doctor and two telemed doctors. I see all of them. No. No drugs, nothing to treat.

[Dr. Mike]

What? I have something about that.

I'm saying that the Maha movement is sabotaging the doctor patient relationship. And you're talking about how the COVID pandemic sabotaged the doctor patient relationship.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Correct.

[Dr. Mike]

You know what's wild? I agree with you. I think we sabotage a doctor patient relationship.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Great.

[Dr. Mike]

So can we talk about how the Baha movements impact you?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, I want to share with you what I'm going through right now, because.

A month ago, my husband collapsed and had a brain tumor.

[Dr. Mike]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

It's glioblastoma.

[Dr. Mike]

That's terrible.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

And I don't wanna cry.

[Dr. Mike]

No. Why? No, no, no. Take a breath.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mike]

Totally acceptable to cry.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yeah. But what I'm running into now is they want us to do standard care where I think as a patient, we should have the right to try. We're currently looking into Dr. Soon Xiang's trial for his bioimmunity therapy. He's getting treatment at Cedar. Couldn't ask for better oncologists, but we cannot treat him with bioimmunity immunity therapies until he goes through chemo and radiation, which basically, if he's not doing bioimmunity, that's gonna kill both his good and bad cells. So, for me, this is really personal at this point. I am looking into it, and I'm seeing the people that you want funded getting in the way of my husband's treatment, where I and my husband, as a patient, should have a right to try.

[Dr. Mike]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not an expert in oncology.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

Isn't there such thing as right to try legislation that already exists?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

There is, but I don't know why. Like, for instance, it's the FDA's in.

[Dr. Mike]

The way, but the FDA is currently run by Secretary Kennedy. So he's here.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

But see, right now, because then we're.

[Dr. Mike]

On the same team.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, but at the same time, we can also go back into Biden's administration where all the money was going into changing kids, genders, all the money. Well, a lot of it. A lot of that was, Well, I don't know the dollar amount, but again, is that important? I think that the whole industry has failed us. And I don't even. I can't even go back into who's in power. What I do like about Kennedy. If we're going to stick on Kennedy I like that for the first time I found out how dangerous this water bottle I'm drinking out of is. I like for the fact that they're taking these dyes out of food. I like that they just passed where they're gonna lower the drug prices, where we end up paying the same amount as people from all over the world. These are things I like. I don't think that I've ever seen a perfect HHS secretary. And I can agree that there's things that Kennedy probably is doing that I don't agree with. But there's definitely the thing that I like about him is he's opening up other options where before I feel like everything was, you must do it by this. And again, I would like to see the FDA broke in. I've been trolling Dr. Soon nonstop to the point I've gotten into. I've gotten in touch with him, but my husband's starting chemo on Tuesday.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

It's a lot.

[Dr. Mike]

That's a lot.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yeah. And so there. I just barfed all over you.

[Dr. Mike]

No, no, no, that's. Look, you're the person that every time I make a video about, I think about. Every time I'm going to the hospital to work, you're the person I'm thinking about. Every time I fact check one of Secretary Kennedy's claims, you're the person I think about. You're the person I want to get accurate information. Not information from Biden's secretary, not from President Trump's secretary. I don't care who's secretary. I want you to get the honest information so you can decide what's right for you and your husband. And currently I don't feel like that's happening. And I'll explain why. So you could decide if what you think I'm saying is bullshit or not. In 2024, when Secretary Kennedy was running for president, he was on stage and he Talked about how GLP1 medications, these Ozempics, WeGovies and such, paralyze your stomach. They do these terrible things to your body. They're poisoning our nation in Europe, they're illegal. All of that is untrue or overblown. A year later, he's standing with President Trump celebrating that Americans are having access to these medications. How can you believe what he's saying when every time he's flip flopping about the truth to you, when in early 2000s, he's doing interviews about mercury, he says vaccines save hundreds, millions of lives. And then now he's telling you They're a big problem in causing people death. How do you decide when he's telling the truth versus when he's not? When there's constant hypocrisy coming from him as an individual?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, I don't think that it's 100%. I think that there's good things and there's bad things with anybody that's in power.

[Dr. Mike]

I agree.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

And for me, I honestly am not coming here just gung ho. I want to learn from you. I think you are here in good faith. I don't think that you're a bad man. Just trying to win the argument. And trust me, I've sat in this chair where that's exactly what the person in the other seat wants to do. What I would like is to see freedom for you as a doctor. What I would like to see is freedom for me as a patient and to be able to pursue those avenues that are best. Again, as far as Ozempic, you know what, if you eat too much ice cream, I say cut down on the ice cream. I'm not 100% behind that whole Ozempic thing because I think it's vain. I think that.

[Dr. Mike]

What about for people who have diabetes?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, I think that there's better ways for them to lose weight. My ex son in law has diabetes and the bad kind of. And yet he drinks alcohol. You know, that's probably worse for him than anything. But I do like what Kennedy's doing as far as not the dyes. You mentioned the dyes and the plastics in our food, getting the pesticides out of our food.

[Dr. Mike]

So let's talk about the dyes because I think that's an interesting point. You know, a lot of people talk about red dye number 40, that there was some research showing that kids who over consume it have higher rates of hyperactivity and potentially tying it to adhd. You've heard that. So that research is real. It does exist. It's shorter term, but it does exist. So I actually think removing these petroleum based eyes is not necessarily a bad thing. I think it's a plus side into Secretary Kennedy's agenda. However, the issues that you're talking about, about giving doctors a chance to be with their patients, the way we're spending time together is a systemic flaw. We don't get time with our patients. The difference between seeing a naturopath versus a primary care doctor is that the primary care doctor usually spends five to ten minutes with you. And that's not because they don't like you or they don't Care about you. It's the system sucks for them. Can we get Secretary Kennedy to change the system really quick?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

What I would like to see happen was you as a physician be able to reach across the aisle and work synergetically with other doctors that are specialists in other areas.

[Dr. Mike]

Sure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

For instance, with this oncology, the oncologist should work with the radiologist who should be working with bioimmunity. Well, they're not allowed to work with the bioimmunity until he does radiation and chemo, which are going to destroy all of his good cells. So that's a problem. So I think as far as everything that's gone on, like for instance, you brought up the kids with the adhd. When my son was in third grade, Eddie, teacher didn't like that. He was boy and hyperactive. She came to me in third grade, put them on pills.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah, that's rude. I'm sorry, that shouldn't happen.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

And I said no, but how many kids.

[Dr. Mike]

And I'm not saying that shouldn't happen because no children should be on the medication.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yeah, but they're putting everybody on it.

[Dr. Mike]

This is another point I will succumb. We are sometimes too quick to start medications. And I think the reason for this needs to be evaluated. Part of it, we have less time with our patients. So therefore we have to just do what we can. Second, we also have patients that are very consumer driven. Give me a pill to fix it as opposed to making me do the work to fix it. I don't want a patient blame, but this is the reality of what happens. So how do we fix all of these big problems without creating disconnects by cutting research budgets. Like if Secretary Kennedy.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, I want to know where that money went because a lot of money.

[Dr. Mike]

It didn't go anywhere.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, a lot of this money though was going to insurance companies.

[Dr. Mike]

The research dollars doesn't go to insurance companies.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, I would. Seeing what happens in local politics, I see a lot of money laundering going.

[Dr. Mike]

On in the world.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I hate to say it. Pleasure.

[Dr. Mike]

Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I really appreciate you. Thank you.

[Dr. Mike]

Pleasure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Good to meet you.

[Dr. Mike]

Nice to meet you as well. So talk to me. How do you feel about the sabotaging of the doctor patient relationship by the Maha movement?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I don't agree with it. I don't think that maha is sabotaging their relationship. As a matter of fact, I think it's cultivating confidence in patients to be able to speak to their doctors because it's providing education in a way that has never been there before. And I know you were talking about research, and so you're a busy doctor. Do you have time to do research?

[Dr. Mike]

When you say do research, do you mean actually do clinical trials? Myself?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Follow all of the data.

[Dr. Mike]

Sure you do.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

So in addition to a. A week long log of patients, you make time to read all of the material and all of the data about different patients.

[Dr. Mike]

You want me to be honest? Sometimes I do it in the room with the patient because I'm family medicine, so a lot of different conditions come. So absolutely important.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, you're very rare.

[Dr. Mike]

Well, I appreciate that. But let me ask you a question so we can get off to perhaps a better talking point. Secretary Kennedy.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yes.

[Dr. Mike]

In the last few months, went on a podcast and basically defamed all doctors in the United States by saying doctors are just interested in profit and keeping patients sick. Hearing that line, as a patient yourself, do you feel that your doctor is in your best interest, is working in your best interest, and do you have more trust in your doctor after hearing that line?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

So I have enormous respect for Bobby Kennedy. I feel like he's educated and informed and does the research on the data and has worked on cases that he's become familiarized with medical data. So I believe that when he speaks, he comes from a place of informed knowledge.

[Dr. Mike]

So you agree that doctors.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I'm going to answer that as well. So when I go to my doctor, typically my doctor, I don't have. Thank goodness, I don't have a lot of health issues. But when I have, my doctor wants to move me to medication, which always makes me think that in med school, that doctors are trained to find a medicalized solution rather than an alternative solution that empowers my own immune system and my own body. And so when I go in to talk to my doctor, my doctor will look at me and be like, okay, you don't want any of that. And I'd be like, no, I want to have a different conversation. And Maha provides that because it's talking about removing dyes. And I'm also a parent. So for me, there's things that involve children that I so appreciate Maha presenting. Because before there wasn't a choice, doctors thought of parents and patients as kind of dumb.

[Dr. Mike]

I agree that 20, 30 years ago, that was absolutely the education.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yes. And it still can exist.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah. Because doctors are older. So that's true. I'd love for you if you can answer that question, like by hearing Secretary Kennedy say that doctors are just interested in keeping you sick, does that improve your relationship with your doctor or Not.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I would have to hear the context.

[Dr. Mike]

That's the context.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, but I mean, like, the whole thing. Because one thing that I've experienced a lot with Bobby is that people get soundbites and they don't hear the entire interview and the entire dialogue, and then they piecemeal it, and then they go, that, man.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah. People do that with things.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Right.

[Dr. Mike]

What's a way that he could have been saying that in. In a genuine way?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, he. In a genuine way. Well, I think he was. I. I can't speak for him.

[Dr. Mike]

Sure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

But my experience of Bobby is that he is a genuine, compassionate, kind, caring human, and he takes his work very seriously. And his commitment to ending chronic health disease and making sure children are healthy and adults are healthy is very, very important to him. So. But if I heard that, I probably would have been like, hmm, I want to understand more about where he is coming from, because it doesn't line up for me that he would just generalize that all doctors are doing that. But in context, he might have been referring to something.

[Dr. Mike]

So if one of the participants here that are surrounding us came up to me after the show and said that you're a liar and everything you say is untrue, that perhaps could be said in a nice way.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Oh, well, I would probably think that maybe there's something going on.

[Dr. Mike]

What called you a bad mother?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I've been through a lot of things.

[Dr. Mike]

But wouldn't that hurt?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

It would make me think for a moment, like, do you know me? Do you know what I do? Do you know how I am? Do you know my professionalism?

[Dr. Mike]

That's how I feel as a doctor. When Secretary Kennedy says that to me, he says, we're interested in keeping people sick for profit. I don't even take a salary to work as a Doctor anymore. The YouTube stuff is so successful. I really am showing up for my patients pro bono because I want to help people. I'm here pro bono. I flew here myself for free because I want to give you the best information. And you said Secretary Kennedy is well researched.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yes.

[Dr. Mike]

He goes on the podiums and he says inaccuracies all the time. And look, everyone's allowed to make mistakes. I'm not about gotchas. I'm not that crazy. Right, right. But when you say, back in the day, kids who had diabetes almost never existed, and now one in three kids have diabetes? It's a lie. One in 300 kids have diabetes. So, like, how much do I, as a YouTuber have to fact check Secretary Kennedy, the Director of Health and human services, before he comes out and says, I messed up, I need to tell you the truth. And I'm getting the numbers wrong so often. When does that happen?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

That's a really good point. I don't know. I guess we'd have to go back also to during COVID when they made these really outrageous statements that weren't true either. Go back because.

There have been mistakes.

[Dr. Mike]

And if you brought back multiple videos on my YouTube channel, including podcasts, where we talk about every mistake we made, I made during the pandemic. Because ultimately, it's about trying to figure out how to do better, not to score political points. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat. Thank you so much. I appreciate. You.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Got it. All right.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Hi, nice to meet you.

[Dr. Mike]

Pleasure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So. Yes, sir. So I think to start this off, there's actually some truth to what he said. So. Yeah, as of Right, what Kennedy said. So the truth is that after the year 2000, doctors say that one in three children will actually develop diabetes in their lifetime. So there's actually so often a lot more truth to what Kennedy says than what you give him. And I know that you.

[Dr. Mike]

So he just said it inaccurately. You mean, like. Cause he said this is a quote, unquote, that currently one in three children have diabetes.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I mean, it could have been that maybe the wording was wrong, but the truth is that if you were born after the year 2000, one in three people are going to develop diabetes.

[Dr. Mike]

As a prediction.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Yes. And so I think so often what we can do with Kennedy is we can still paint him in bad faith, even if that's not our intention. And I think one of the things that you said actually was that Kennedy said that half of the people in China have diabetes. Right. And I remember in this video you said, no, it's actually 13% of people. I'm like, total, total fact check. Well, the truth is, is that while 13% of people in China do have diabetes, the truth is that making up the rest of that 50% margin are actually people that right now already have pre diabetes. And since from 2005 to 2023, there has been a 50% increase in the number of people with diabetes in the country of China.

[Dr. Mike]

So what you're saying is he gets it wrong, but the intention is good.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Well, I mean, when you are.

[Dr. Mike]

Or sort of.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Right, Sorry, when you're in the public eye for years and years and years and years, there's a good shot that you're going to miss word, something that.

[Dr. Mike]

Did he come out and correct himself when he did that?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Well, in many cases, he has come out and corrected himself.

[Dr. Mike]

I mean, the truth is, what cases are those?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Okay, so specifically the case in Tylenol. I mean, he came back and he said there is not enough scientific evidence to say that Tylenol causes autism.

[Dr. Mike]

So doesn't that concern you, as a person who lives in the United States, that there's a press conference, there's the President, Health and Human Services Secretary, the director of CMS, Dr. Oz, and they're telling you, even Dr. Makari who runs FDA, goes on the weeknight shows on Fox and says there's a causal relationship between Tylenol and autism. This is quote, unquote, I'm not twisting words. This is what was said. And then two weeks later they go, nah, never mind. Doesn't that upset you in the same way that we flip flopped back in Covid days? I'm curious why it changes.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So here's the thing you have to understand, and I know you know this, and the truth is that science is a constant practice. It's a constant thing. And so medicine specifically is also constant in itself. The thing is, if something is a fact, then it will be able to be refuted or, sorry, then it will stand, no matter what, whenever you.

[Dr. Mike]

Unless you learn something new, and maybe that will change, which is true.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

But if we have scientific facts established and they are in fact true, then they will simply stand. And that's the thing. The thing that I appreciate about Kennedy is he understands that science at the highest levels is a constant debate. And so when you see a study come out that contradicts the status quo, to say that and to say, okay, Americans, we have found that, you know, whatever could do whatever, contrary to what's believed specifically in the Tylenol situation, it's good that he presented that we found this, and then he actually retracted that two weeks later, I believe. So I think that it's very, very important to say if we do find something, there's scientific evidence for something that does go against the grain to come out there and say that you have that evidence.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah. So this is pretty interesting, what you're pointing out. I would say a year before this press conference, I had a video lined up to talk about the relationship between Tylenol and autism in those who are pregnant. So, like, I literally was making a video on that subject.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

And just because of production delays and such, we didn't get a chance to put it out. So in the medical community, we were already understanding that there is a potential Tie there an association. We knew that there wasn't a causal link to prove that. Definitely.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Right. Because it's not even widely agreed as of today what causes it.

[Dr. Mike]

Exactly.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Right.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

But then again, I think that we should constantly be looking into these things a little bit deeper than we do. Well, there's a problem here because 70%.

[Dr. Mike]

Of, like, the research he's quoting wasn't done the week he presented it. Do you know why it was presented this September when he presented it?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So, sorry. So the research wasn't done in September of 2025?

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah, it was done. It was done a long period before that. There was multiple research. Because you said we need to look at.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So you said that there's multiple research articles. You said there's multiple of them.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah, yeah.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So I think the reason he probably shared it is because there are multiple of them. And he's like. It actually posed a red flag in the situation.

[Dr. Mike]

No. Do you want me to be honest and tell you why he shared it? Because at the beginning of his time and his tenure, he promised that by September we'd find the cause of autism. And because he did not find it, because we've been looking for it. We want to help people. I want to find the cause of autism. I'm being honest with you. I wish I could help my patients.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Flip the switch really fast.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

No, no.

[Dr. Mike]

But I really want to be. I want to show you how passionate I am. Because when Secretary Kennedy raises his voice, people see his passion and we in healthcare don't have the same passion. So I want to show you my passion. We want to find it and we haven't found it. And when he presents to you a fake link because he knows it doesn't exist, why are you not mad at him like we are mad at him? Sir, that question.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I don't know how you can say that today everyday Americans should be trusting research that that's put out because there was a recent study that was done that said 70% of studies that are put out have a conflict of interest, the majority of which are for undisclosed amounts. And the average amount that is known is $27,000 per.

[Dr. Mike]

So should we throw out all research? Why are you trusting. Do you know if there's conflict of interest with Tylenol Research?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

70%.

[Dr. Mike]

I'm not arguing with you. I agree. Conflict of research. So fast.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

And then it's like.

[Dr. Mike]

But I agree with you now. I'm intense because I'm glad. We appreciate that. Not because I'm mad at you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So my. And the thing is Is that what's known is when you come in. And obviously you can't directly receive money from big pharma.

[Dr. Mike]

However, you can.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

You can't. It's in kickbacks and it's also in funding.

[Dr. Mike]

Well, you can get paid to speak at conferences, promote certain medications. That's. Absolutely.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

And then it's shown that the majority in family practice and cardiology, every specialty, the majority of physicians have received conflict of interest payments. They've been paid off by big pharma. And that's to be said.

[Dr. Mike]

How do you know that it's.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Well, 75. I saw the statistic.

[Dr. Mike]

I don't have this. No, I'll help you. I mean, I agree.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

We could talk about that. It's disclosed, right? These things have to be disclosed. But the thing is that something.

[Dr. Mike]

Do you know what that law is called?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Something as little as $20 actually can change the prescription given by a doctor. And I think this is a major problem and you guys have broken trust with American citizens.

[Dr. Mike]

I agree. So look, it needs to be disclosed. Money can create conflict. Agree with you totally. I don't disagree with the sentence you said.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So should we remove it?

Should we not allow conflict of interest?

[Dr. Mike]

Let me just catch up on your point. I agree that conflict of interest can create bias. I agree that pharmaceutical companies pay doctors and it could bias them.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

They're on the same team.

[Dr. Mike]

Yes.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Good.

[Dr. Mike]

Does Secretary Kennedy make money? Has he been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by law firms to pursue vaccine claims?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

These are because.

[Dr. Mike]

Why does that not buy.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

These are lawsuits that he himself has.

[Dr. Mike]

Gone after somebody for. Why doesn't it bias him? Why, when he gets paid by Children's Health Defense, why does that not bias? Why are you looking at bias only in one direction?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So you gotta. You kind of have a problem here and you're just assuming that his intention is bad.

[Dr. Mike]

I'm not. I'm not. I'm asking. Why are you choosing to say bias is bad here, but not here? If he is, I'm agreeing with you on your side. Why are you disagreeing with me with bias? With him receiving well large. Do you know how much money he's gotten paid by pharmaceutical companies?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Give me the figure.

[Dr. Mike]

No, you won't know because he's not a doctor. He doesn't have to disclose it.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

What does this have to do with him receiving?

[Dr. Mike]

Because For a reason. You know, doctors do. It is because we disclose. Disclose it to try and reduce bias. He doesn't have to. Huberman does ads. You know who Andrew Huberman is? A very popular Doctor, he does ads for athletic greens all the time. Do you know how much he gets paid? No, he doesn't have to disclose it. Isn't there bias there?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So there's a difference between an influencer and a physician that is direct. I'm talking about Andrew. Andrew is an influencer. Right. Then somebody that's your family practice doctor that's prescribing you medicine, what is the.

[Dr. Mike]

Secretary of Health and Human Services?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So here's the thing.

[Dr. Mike]

He's getting money. How is that impacting his money in the past?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

He doesn't take payments anymore.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

He can't.

[Dr. Mike]

And you know who's taking payments on his behalf?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

You're probably going to say his wife, his son. Okay, well, here's the thing about.

[Dr. Mike]

But isn't this all a problem?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Most of these are cases that he himself has fought. He himself has gotten into the court and he himself has won, and then he receives payments from that.

[Dr. Mike]

Don't you feel that you're being unfair by saying bias on one side but not bias on the other side when it's the same scenario?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Look, it's.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

It's.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

The thing is, is that you're. It's two different things, right? You're talking about every doctor in America and 70% of them are paid off versus this guy who's been winning lawsuits. And this is mainly because he found something in the environment, and then it gets taken out, specifically chemicals or whatever it is. So I think these are two different things. And I think in today's America, we're in a moment where we need reform rather than just going along. So I think we agree on so much.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Time.

[Dr. Mike]

We're out of time. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I appreciate it.

[Dr. Mike]

Thank you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

We find Vecna. We end this once and for all.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Together on December 25th.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

We have a plan.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

It's a bit insane.

[Dr. Mike]

Everyone in. He knows where we are.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Watch out.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Get ready for one last adventure.

[Dr. Mike]

We stay true to ourselves, stay true to our friends, no matter the cost.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Found you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Stranger Things Season 5 Volume 2 begins December 25th only on Netflix.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[Dr. Mike]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[Dr. Mike]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[Dr. Mike]

Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us at age 13 as you do 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.

My next surrounded claim is that Big Pharma is more trustworthy than Big Supplement.

Hello, how are you? Love the suit. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be with you today. I just wanted to say it's really unfortunate that you're feeling that the Maha.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Movement is getting in the way of.

[Dr. Mike]

The relationship you're having with your patients. I think what we really need to.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Be talking about is public trust.

[Dr. Mike]

And the public is losing trust in.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Our government because it is being captured by special interests like Big Pharma. And I say that because like FDA.

[Dr. Mike]

Is about funded about 50% or more from fees that are paid to it by the very drug companies that they are approving. So there's a little bit of a conflict of interest there. And also Big Pharma spends about $20 billion a year in advertising, 7 billion of which is direct to consumer. And we see all of these ads on tv.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

You know the ones I'm talking about?

[Dr. Mike]

Absolutely. With the pretty butterflies, they're going through fields and they're happy and singing songs. Us in New Zealand, right? Yeah. And at the end, really, really quickly, it's all about like it could be an antidepressant medication and at the end it's like really, really fast. May cause explosive diarrhea, spontaneous combustion and even suicidal thoughts. You know, Big Pharma, like any special interest has captured our government. And when it's captured our government on so many levels, not just the three letter agencies, but it's out in the open how much they're giving to our electeds. And so they are literally putting the profits of Big Pharma over people. People and our health. Interesting. There's parts of that I agree with and parts that I disagree with, if you'd like to hear. What I agree with is that pharmaceutical companies are absolutely interested in profits. This is a for profit system. It's a capitalist nation. In fact, if you look at our food supply, it's primarily focused on profits instead of trying to keep us healthy. That's pretty much always been the case within the last 50 years or so when it comes to pharma versus supplements, which is kind of what we were discussing here because some people say I don't want to take a pharmaceutical, I'd rather go the natural approach. That is said a lot in terms of the Internet. And I think that there's two issues with it. One is that there's this natural fallacy that just because something is natural means it's safe and just because something is for profit means it's evil. And that's weird to me because things that are natural can be absolutely dangerous. So like cyanide, arsenic, these are natural phenomena. They're absolutely dangerous. Absolutely. And things that are for profit, like supplement companies, can be sometimes beneficial. Like if someone has a vitamin D deficiency, I would absolutely tell them to take a vitamin D supplement. The issue is, do you know how big the pharmaceutical industries in the United States for billions of dollars, if you don't just say no, how many billions of dollars they make? Yeah, I don't know. $600 billion. Crazy sum, right? Do you know how big the Global Wellness Institute says the wellness industry is in the United States? It's probably bigger than that. 2 trillion. So why are you only interested in conflicts of interest for pharma when the supplement wellness industry is 3,4x? I'm not great at math off the cuff, so I'm just curious on that specific point. You know, it's interesting because I, I don't disagree that either. I think again, going back to my point about eroding the public trust, I think what's happening with what I know about big Pharma is that they often have board members that sit on boards of the big media like Fox and cnn. Sure. But they also sit on the board.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Of the big pharma.

[Dr. Mike]

And so it's that that we're worried about because those things are really causing more complications.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Like you're taking one big pharmaceutical pill.

[Dr. Mike]

And it's causing five other problems and.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

It becomes a sick care system.

[Dr. Mike]

I can elect to take those other non FDA approved drugs and I'm choosing that.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

But I'm being told by my doctors who are also, you know, being pushed by big Pharma to push these options on us.

[Dr. Mike]

So it's more of a choice for are they forcing you to take those medications? I mean, when you go to a.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Doctor and you're trying to figure out and you're constantly being bamboozled by you should take this and that and the third, you feel like that's your only.

[Dr. Mike]

Option because we're kind of being programmed that we have to go in that direction. What happens when you walk into a pharmacy and you walk down the vitamin aisle? What are the words that you see thrown at you?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Oh, like help sleeping or sleeping health energy.

[Dr. Mike]

Energy. What proof do they have to submit in order to sell their Supplements, I would guess nothing. Me and you right now can take whatever supplement we want. Yeah, it's our choice. Bottle it up right here. No, no, no. Bottle it up right here on this table in capsules. Market it. Put it in a pharmacy if it sells well, especially if you have lots of followers and make millions of dollars. Sure you could. But it's still my personal choice as a consumer, and I think it goes back to. And it's still your personal choice to take pharmaceuticals. No one's forcing you to take pharmaceuticals. Yes, absolutely, that's true. But pharmaceuticals at least have to submit something to prove that they work, that they have some safety profile. But what me and you created today, no one has to prove anything. And they also have had instances where they've led people to have liver failure, death. They've been sued by the fda, there's been threatening letters. Consumer labs goes and tests what's in these supplements and finds out what's on the label is not actually in the pill. Why don't you have an interest in that?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Well, I don't think the doctors are pushing that.

[Dr. Mike]

If I go to my doctor, they're not pushing all those supplements and everything like that. Yeah, the influencers are. Don't you think that's a bigger problem when it's 2 trillion versus 600 billion? Okay, pause.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

You've been voted out.

[Dr. Mike]

Oh, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Hello.

[Dr. Mike]

Pleasure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I'm Heidi.

[Dr. Mike]

Nice to meet you, Heidi.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Nice to meet you, too. So we're talking supplements.

[Dr. Mike]

Supplements versus pharma. What do you got?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay, what I heard in the last debate is that you feel like doctors don't have the responsibility to teach their patients about the supplements. Like if I went to the doctor and I said, hey, I heard that magnesium can really help me with cramps, you know? Okay. And the doctor would educate me on that. Right. Especially if I asked a question.

[Dr. Mike]

Sure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

They asked question. But if I went into the doctor and said, listen, I am suffering from these leg cramps that are excruciating, I am screaming into the air at night and my neighbors are scared of me, what can I do? Well, I have both, but.

What do I do? What's your first go to? Are you going to go towards the pharmaceutical, you know, are you going to hit. Well, maybe magnesium can help you, which it has.

[Dr. Mike]

I will present the correct diagnosis pathway to, first of all, make sure that is the condition that you have.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Right.

[Dr. Mike]

Because a lot of times the Internet guides patients to believe that they have certain conditions that they don't.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, cramps are pretty self explanatory.

[Dr. Mike]

Meaning not the symptom.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Right.

[Dr. Mike]

Your symptom is your symptom. I'm no expert in that. It's your body.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mike]

So the symptom is real. The question is, what is the diagnosis that's leading for that symptom to happen? Because some functional medicine doctors tend to take this approach where they say we look at the root cause, where your doctor does it. Well, I don't know. I was trained in medical school to always look for the root cause and not just put a bandage on things. Because I actually want to help you. So I wouldn't necessarily look to treating your symptom instantly. I would first start an investigative path to figure out why you have said symptom. For restless leg syndrome, one of these lab values that's oftentimes not checked that correlates with restless leg syndrome is anemia. And sometimes supplementing iron in those patients who are anemic could be beneficial for them. And guess what? That's an absolute supplement that can help in those situations. But better yet, here's what a good doctor should do. A good doctor should present the options. If there's a pharmaceutical one, if there's a natural one, I agree. And ask which one resonates with you?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well then why are doctors and big supplement fighting with each other? Why are they against each other? Why shouldn't they work? Shouldn't they work together?

[Dr. Mike]

They absolutely should. Here's what happens if certain supplements start becoming very well proven in research that they work. They just become regular medicine and we don't even think about them as supplements. Like if someone has a vitamin D deficiency or an iron deficiency. No one thinks about a doctor prescribing iron or vitamin D. But we do that. In fact, there are some rare indications where we use prescription grade omega 3 medications called Lavazza. So we absolutely do prescribe those. Why we go to war with the supplement company, especially me and my YouTube channel, is because I feel when our healthcare system screws you over and you're hurt because you were misdiagnosed, not listened to, written off, which I'm sure happens.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Which happens.

[Dr. Mike]

They go to you and they pretend like they care to sell you something that is potentially unproven, well, don't do the same thing.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Do you just automatically assume all doctors care because not some doctors get into it just for the money?

[Dr. Mike]

I think absolutely can happen. I think it's impossible to judge intention on a huge generality like that. But I think the war, just to answer your question, is that we Want people to tell the truth about and about their supplement, about their pharmaceutical medication. In fact, there's been lawsuits that have been settled with the pharma industry in the 2010s for $3 billion by GSK. Do you know what that lawsuit was about? Improper branding of the two medications, Paxil and Wellbutrin. These two medications were properly branded.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I remember that.

[Dr. Mike]

And pharmaceutical companies were held liable. Okay, when do the supplement companies get held liable? When they say you'd be faster, stronger, better looking, whatever it is.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Pause.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

You've been voted out.

[Dr. Mike]

I'm sorry, Sorry. Thank you so much.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I had it too.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Back again.

[Dr. Mike]

Hello, sir. Good to see you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay, so I want to point out something that you did. 600 million to 2 trillion. Correct. You stated that the 600 million was the size of the industry in the United States. You compared that to a global number.

[Dr. Mike]

The Global number is 4 trillion. 2 trillion is the US number. If I said it wrong.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay. All right, so I was just going to call you out of it. The other thing I would like to ask, though is what is the operational definition? I'm assuming that that's coming from a research article.

[Dr. Mike]

Wellness Institute is okay.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Global Wellness Institute. What I'm asking you is what is the operational definition? The reason why I'm asking that is because I would bet you dollars to donuts when they came to defining what a wellness and supplement company is, they threw this wide sweeping net in order to inflate the numbers. Because when I did the research, it said that the supplement industry in the United States was 10% of what the pharmaceutical industry was.

[Dr. Mike]

Accurate.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

The other thing you just said it.

[Dr. Mike]

Because the wellness industry isn't just driven.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

By supplements, but your big supplement. So as a big wellness or big.

[Dr. Mike]

Supplement, Big supplement works in tangent with big supplement. Every time you see a wellness influencer, they're not just selling you supplements, they're selling you their courses, they're selling you their get well schemes. The miraculous fixes for whatever is ailing you. And this idea of capturing too many things all at once when we say that their chronic diseases are significantly higher in children. I think you said that earlier in the United States, kids are sicker than they used to be.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Oh yeah, I said that they're sicker. Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. Mike]

Higher rates of chronic health diseases.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Yes.

[Dr. Mike]

Well, part of that is because there are more conditions that are now being counted in that scenario. And if you look at children's mortality, children actively dying per 100,000, it's actually significantly down over the last 30.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

So who created the opioid epidemic. Big Pharma or Big wellness. And how were they held accountable? Hundreds of thousands of people had died. They had to give up $7 billion. I spent seven years of my life for peddling drugs. My impact on people's lives was all compared to what they did. And you're telling me that they were held accountable? That is absolutely, utterly disgusting. So then my question is just like what you asked this gentleman. If you're over here saying, hey, we need to light a fire, we need to hold Big Supplement accountable.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Then my question is, are you also investing equal energy on your own time to saying, we need to hold Big Pharma accountable? In what way?

[Dr. Mike]

In every way. Any time they say something that's inaccurate, I call balls and strikes.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

With supplement. With doctors, too. With pharmaceutical.

[Dr. Mike]

With doctors. With pharmaceutical companies. You just called out the opioid thing that they. You said, what was their punishment?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

You said they gave $7 billion.

[Dr. Mike]

I don't think that's enough. I think that there should be harsher punishments for those executives that were making those.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Did you make YouTube videos?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Of course.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

We talk about all the time. I don't know enough about your YouTube channel.

[Dr. Mike]

If you did, it's a bigger issue, but it's about trying to figure out what the truth is by calling balls and strikes fairly. So if we something do something wrong in the health care industry wrong, I will call it out. And medicine wants to call it out. There's definitely special interest groups. They need to be held accountable. But if you're going to do it sloppily, like how I believe Secretary Kennedy is doing it, you're actually going to have more bad actors. He likes transparency. Right. He said he wanted to run on radical transparency. Can I tell you one thing that he did that's actually going to make things much less transparent?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Please do.

[Dr. Mike]

Every time HHS enacts a new policy since 1946, they had a period of waiting for public comment, for people who are stakeholders to talk about how this policy will impact them. Guess what? Secretary Kennedy ended this year for the first time since 1946.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Do you know why he did it?

[Dr. Mike]

Yes.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Why?

[Dr. Mike]

I can quote you word for word why he did it.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay, so my understanding.

[Dr. Mike]

No, I'm going to read it to you. It's not needed and it's not very effective.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay, but this is his quote. The reason why he said that is because the industries were using that process to actually interfere with things. Public comment that, that. Oh, come on now. They can manipulate anything they want. The whole Point of what he's doing in HHS is he's saying, here's how corporate capture is taking place and here's how we get rid of it. That's all he's trying to do. If you look at what he did with like the fda, he was saying things weren't centralized, they were ineffective. We don't need this much money. Get rid of it. He's saying, here's how the revolving door happens on and on and on, all these things. So even if you don't like Senator Secretary Kennedy in and of itself, you do agree with some of the things that he's.

[Dr. Mike]

I don't even go as far as saying I don't like him. I just think that when you cut $3.8 billion from HIV, maternal health research, ALS, when you cut the funding for MRNA vaccines, that in the future can perhaps help treat one of our family members from having pancreatic cancer. Prevent them from having pancreatic cancer. I think that's not someone I want.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

In charge of hhs, but we just went over it. If everybody focuses on their lifestyle changes, we don't need that.

[Dr. Mike]

That's not true.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

It is true.

[Dr. Mike]

Not everything in health is a lifestyle change issue. A lot of it is.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

If your VO2 max is in the upper 2 percentile for your age group, your risk for all cause mortality is next to nothing. It literally doesn't matter. I'm not saying that they don't die, but they don't die from chronic disease is ultimately what it comes down to.

[Dr. Mike]

But do you believe in genetic diseases?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

So genes have to be activated. Genes, the bad genes are activated by oxidative stress. Literally all diseases related to mitochondrial dysfunction.

[Dr. Mike]

Okay, Secretary.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Which is, which is why VO2 max is so powerful. You are judging the respiratory exchange ratio, which is telling you if your body is using fat for substrate or if it's using sugar for substrate, you are then judging the lactate threshold. And if you use more fat for energy and your lactate threshold is further off, there is less oxidative stress in your body, which does not damage genes, which means that your likelihood for cancer it all cause mortality is next to nothing.

[Dr. Mike]

But that's not true.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

It is true.

[Dr. Mike]

It's not true. I could say so.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Then you're telling me that Dr. Attia is full of shit. Dr. Attia.

[Dr. Mike]

I don't think Dr. Attia would agree with you. I think he would say VO2 max. Focusing on that will decrease someone's likelihood of dying from heart disease.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

And it will literally said it. Your Risk is next to nothing. The whole point is that the current system that you are supporting, all right, quality of life goes up. You know, we're in our 30s and our 40s, and it drastically starts to drop.

[Dr. Mike]

I think it should be that way.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay, it shouldn't be that way. It should just be flat. And then all of a sudden we should just go straight down.

[Dr. Mike]

I don't think quality of life should ever just go flat. I mean.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Well, no. I mean, no, no, no, no. I mean, like, so. So, like my.

[Dr. Mike]

I actually think medicine, that's where it up. I think medicine does this.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Dr. Atia has talked about the chart where if you look at the difference that drugs have made, it's at the very end of life. It doesn' a lot of things.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

If anything, there's like this much of a gap as far as improving quality of life at the end. So if you're really looking at the research, the drugs have done absolutely nothing. And the other thing that it does is it shields people.

[Dr. Mike]

Sepsis. And you are incredibly sick.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Acute versus chronic. When it comes to acutes, I will sit there and say, yes, we need doctors. Yes, we need pharmaceuticals. Okay. But when it comes to chronic disease.

[Dr. Mike]

And someone with type 1 diabetes, are you going to tell that person, go, VO2 max.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Why are they born with type 1 diabetes?

[Dr. Mike]

I don't know. But you don't know.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Tell me why do you not maybe think that it's because the mother was unhealthy and there was oxidative stress? That possibly.

[Dr. Mike]

Definitely raises the risk of it. But you don't think that people will need pharmaceuticals if they just think about.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Their v. We have to make.

[Dr. Mike]

Why is it an either or? Why can't it be both?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

We. Okay, but here's the deal. We only have so much money, right?

[Dr. Mike]

Sure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Do we have unlimited funds?

[Dr. Mike]

But we can separate it.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

We need to. So we need to make the decision. Are we going to continue to treat and enable? Are we going to prevent. Okay, if we start taking our money and we start putting it into prevention, things will change. Things will happen.

[Dr. Mike]

You know what helps with prevention? Vaccines. You know what? Secretary Kennedy doesn't support vaccines. Okay, pause. Thank you.

Love the colors.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Thank you so much, Doctor.

[Dr. Mike]

Absolutely. Pleasure. It really is. Got some notes. I do love to see them.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I do, I do. It's not every day you get to sit down across from a doctor.

[Dr. Mike]

I mean, if your doctor is not spending time with you, I think you should look for a second opinion instantly.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Perhaps so, but I'm a long ways away. From you. And you're unique. Okay, so my first question for you is, you spent years in med school, right? You spent years practicing. What has been your chief goal?

[Dr. Mike]

To keep patients as healthy and happy and have the highest quality of life for as long as possible.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay, That's. I think that's what everyone's looking for from the medical industry. And I did call it an industry. I'm not saying that that's you.

[Dr. Mike]

No, it is me.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

Don't hedge it. It's me, it's you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I think what's so important is that the time that you spent there, how much of it was spent trying to give your patients something that would prevent them from getting sick, rather than treating them after they've gotten sick a lot.

[Dr. Mike]

Can I give you some examples?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I'd love it.

[Dr. Mike]

When a patient comes in for their annual physical. It's funny to say, but I don't think annual physicals really exist. I think most people come in because they have a problem, and then they just tack it onto their annual physical. But I think about what risks they face. So if someone has an elevated bmi, not the best way to judge obesity, but using my vision and the BMI number, I could tell if they have obesity. I will check certain blood variables to see if they have pre diabetes.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

I will check their blood pressure, essentially thinking about a form of primary prevention, because the number one killer in America is heart disease. And my goal is to decrease death, improve quality of life. And the way that I think about that is by preventing cardiovascular disease, which is heart attacks, strokes, the way that I could do that, the two biggest ones, outside of, like, getting them to stop bad habits like smoking, is lowering their blood pressure to a normal range, getting them to have healthier cholesterol numbers, and getting them to have healthier sugar numbers when they're fasting.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

That is the biggest thing that I do.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

The biggest.

[Dr. Mike]

The biggest thing.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

In addition to thinking about those numbers, I also spend time focusing on their mental health, their sleep. Sometimes that requires doing a sleep study to see if they have sleep apnea. Because a lot of people who have high blood pressure, they don't know why. It's because they have sleep apnea and they're not sleeping well.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

I think about lifestyle changes related to exercise. I incorporate aerobic training and resistance training, especially to those who are older than age 60, because by keeping your muscles strong, carrying weight on your body, you not only strengthened your muscles, which is a longevity organization, but also keeping your bones strong, especially for women. So a Lot of what I do, probably the majority of what I do is focus on. And vaccines.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay. And vaccines.

[Dr. Mike]

And vaccines.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay. Let me ask you this. Why is it then you seem to be resistant to supplements when what we've said is that some people have a deficiency of magnesium or iron or many things. Why is it that, that it's usually a prescription that is chosen first over these things. And you said that supplements, it's. How did you say? A for profit. Of course supplements are for profit. Pharmacy is for profit. But here's my issue. Diabetes makes a lot of money for a lot of people.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay. Can we agree with that?

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah, absolutely.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yes, it does.

[Dr. Mike]

Is that a bad thing?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay, here's the bad thing. Why are we just treating the symptoms of diabetes? Why is it there isn't pills that are being designed to cure the diabetes, but instead to keep us taking the pill for the rest of our lives?

[Dr. Mike]

Who do you want?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

All the side effects. I want an industry that is maybe linked to the idea of good health cure. Why are we treating people for a lifetime and never coming up with something? Metformin has never cured anyone of diabetes yet. It's the number one prescribed drug in America for diabetes. Hasn't cured anyone.

[Dr. Mike]

Sure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Why isn't that the goal?

[Dr. Mike]

I think it is the goal. I just don't think we have the cure. And you know how we get the cure? Research dollars. We're weaponizing all these words against big pharma. But we need them to create the cure. And look, I'll tell you what some conspiracy minded people think, and I've thought it to myself because I think it's important to think about the other side is big pharma withholding cures because they want us to be subjugated to their medication and paying them their whole lives. Reasonable question, right? Yeah, I think about that myself. So pharmaceuticals for profit. They'd make a lot of money if they make a cure. Why would they not want to make a lot of money if they make a cure?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Because once the cure comes, then we're not a slave to the right, we're no longer a slave to their pharmaceutical.

[Dr. Mike]

I think the same.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mike]

You know, my next level of thought is, do you think when we say big pharma there's one pharmaceutical company or two pharmaceutical companies.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

There's.

[Dr. Mike]

There's a lot.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

There's a lot.

[Dr. Mike]

They're in a lot of competition, right?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Of course.

[Dr. Mike]

Wouldn't they be deathly afraid if one of their competitors created the cure?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Mike]

Made billions and trillions of dollars on the cure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yes.

[Dr. Mike]

And. And they were left hanging.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Okay, let me show you an example. There was a bag company about 15 years ago, they made a bag that was so strong. No joke.

[Dr. Mike]

A bag.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

A bag. It was so strong, it wouldn't rip, it wouldn't tear.

[Dr. Mike]

Is this an Hermes thing?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

This is. It was an amazing bag. I am telling you, it was an amazing bag. But guess what?

[Dr. Mike]

I thought you were going to tell me about the Birkin right now, real quick.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

They what? No, no, not at all. They went out of business because guess why? You only had to buy one.

You only had to buy one. It lasted you the next 15 years. I think this is what's going on. These people are in it for the profit. That's why they rush to try to protect something. Okay. So that way they can say, this belongs to us.

[Dr. Mike]

When you say protect something, tell me what you mean.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Well, they do the research, they develop a pill, and they make certain that they are legally protected to be the only ones to manufacture that. Precisely. And the only reason that after that period has run out is because it's run out. And then other companies can do other drugs that.

[Dr. Mike]

And you know what's messed up about that whole process? Tell me that they sometimes when their patent runs out. Yes, they do. Like a little shady reformulation.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Exactly.

[Dr. Mike]

I agree. I think that shit, it stinks. I agree. And I call that out. We're out of time. Great work.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Thank you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

I like you. I love you. Thank you.

[Dr. Mike]

Thank you.

Monster Energy.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra.

[Dr. Mike]

That's the OG it kicked off this.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Whole zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava.

[Dr. Mike]

And they all bring the Monster Energy punch.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

So if you've been living in the.

[Dr. Mike]

White can, branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for, oh, every vibe.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

And every single one is Zero sugar.

[Dr. Mike]

Tap the banner to learn more.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

You money for them.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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[Dr. Mike]

All rights reserved.

My final surrounded claim is that Maha leadership cares less about health and more about money, power and politics.

Hey, doctor. Hello.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Hello.

[Dr. Mike]

How are you doing? Nice to see you, to meet you. So I want to hear what your proof for your claim is. Yeah. So I think if you care about health, you would put investment into research, into finding cures. As we talked about earlier, you look into systemic ways to get the biggest bang for your buck in terms of improving people's lives. I think the Maha movement has said a lot of those things to get PR wins, but hasn't actually executed any, any of them. Instead, what has happened is we've seen a tremendous cut in these budgets that have been reserved for improving our health. By the way, wasn't RFK who did that, that was the Department of Government Efficiency who did that. So that wasn't even him. They did that at the beginning of the year. He's in charge of Health and Human Services, which is responsible for nih, fda, DOGE was in charge of cutting all federal agencies and they were the one who made the cuts. So like I agree with you, where was rfk? On television talking about how terrible that is? He wasn't anywhere. Because a large portion of that funding wasn't necessarily going to what we thought it was going to. For example, let's say. Yes, let's say that's the case. You don't even need to prove it. Did he redirect that funding to something better? No, just cut it. Yeah, right. But don't we need to invest more? Because I'll tell you why. Because we have so many conflicts of interest in the government, which I think you would agree.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Right.

[Dr. Mike]

Part of your claim, and I think you made this earlier, was that RFK actually is like he doesn't have to a report where his funding comes from, which is not true. Because the head of the hhs, the cdc, the nih, they all, any, any head of any federal government agency always has to report any of their financial backings. Right. So they do have to, they do have to report that. But if you look at one of the things that people were very upset about, for example, how the NIAC board. Right. Familiar with that, where he Cut. Like, tell me about that. So he cut, I believe a lot of the members of the board there and everything. Oh, the acip. That's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, the Advisory Committee for immunization. Exactly. Yeah. 70 to 80% of that board was not reporting enough of where their financial backing was coming from. So a lot of the backing that they're doing in those. In that research isn't firstly necessarily going to where you think it's going. What makes you think that they care so much about money, power and politics when he's not making any money from it? He's clearly being demonized by the media. And they haven't even put any regulations in place. The only thing that RFK has done in the eight months that he's been in office is the food dye regulation. Everything else has just been a recommendation. There's been no regulations that have been passed by the hhs. Did you see the first MAHA report that he put out? I did not know. Oh, it was in September, right? No, it was earlier in the year. But it was a big report. He said, look, we're trying to make children healthier and there were some valuable things. They were focusing on lifestyle. Lifestyle changes. That's cool. Seven sources fully made up about research that was never done. When I reach out to the authors that they listed their reasoning for why they were making certain recommendations, I guarantee you those sources were fully made up. People reached out to the participants names that were listed as authors, and they quote, unquote, said, we never did that research. It does not exist. Okay, what was in the report? Because, I mean, the report is familiar, dozens of pages long. But what was it about? About children? Did it publish any regulation? Was it just regular? No, the report was basically like a State of the Union report about what's happening with children's health. But isn't it frustrating or scary that the reasons why they're putting in certain recommendations in the report come from research that fully doesn't exist? And I'll tell you my theory about it. I can't prove it. Okay, go ahead. That they use AI to make those sources and AI hallucinated those sources, which I've seen happen when I ask AI questions. So to me, I think it's really scary. Are you talking about the report that talked about, like, it's the maha landmark report, 1 in 30 children have autism? Because that's true. I'm not arguing about individual claims. Well, let's talk about that for a second. Sure. I think more kids than ever before have been diagnosed with autism. I agree. Why is that? So let me just ask you this. Do you think that America is the most unhealthy nation in the world? No.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

That's in the world. Yeah. Yeah. We spend the most on health care. We're the most countries highest rates. You mean from. In terms of. You're comparing it probably to industrialized countries or like very wealthy nations, but in the world we have the highest rates of chronic disease. Would you say that? I think we're up there. Who cares about absolutes? We're up there. We're not doing great. Health wise, we're terrible. In fact, a lot of the capitalistic stuff that got us so unhealthy, all this ultra processed foods we're now exporting to other countries and getting them sick. And they're catching up.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mike]

And I think that that's a problem. Why are you opposing the first figure in 60 years who said that that's a problem? Well, so hold on, I'll answer your question. Okay, go ahead. This is good. Yeah. Because I don't think he is and I don't think he's actually doing anything to oppose it because he's sitting at Steak N Shake and telling people about McDonald's, how they used to fry their fries in beef tallow. And it was so much better. And then answering your question even further, Michelle Obama tried to get kids to have healthy lunches at school. And again, not partisan here, because Secretary Kennedy used to be a Democrat also. Okay. Michelle Obama had a program for kids to move those lunches have like seed oils in them.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Because the whole point he went.

[Dr. Mike]

Let me just finish the fast food restaurant.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Let me finish.

[Dr. Mike]

Let me finish the point. So whether that they're seed oils or beef tallow, it doesn't matter. It's still junk food. Michelle Obama tried to get kids to have healthier lunches and she tried to get them texturized. You know what people called her on the right? Food police. They hated it. They despised it.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I agree.

[Dr. Mike]

Michael Bloomberg in New York tried to put a soda tap. I'm not here defending the Republican party, but the issue is he's part of the Republican Party that's driving these issues. He's part of an independent party, but he's not. He's part of the administration. Sorry, you've been voted out.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Please return.

[Dr. Mike]

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Hi. Hello. Hello. Nice to meet you. Good to meet you too. Okay. This is something I personally know a little bit about because I joined the campaign to see for myself if RFK was crazy. Did you think that initially?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

No.

[Dr. Mike]

I listened to some of his podcasts, read his memoir on his family, and I was like, it sounds like this guy cares about people. I actually would probably not disagree with that. I mean, good intentions can have terrible outcomes, though. Right? And I do have, like, after. I mean, I was specifically, like, following his vice president, Nicole Shanahan, like, around the country for eight months. She had put together this think tank to figure out how to, like, fix climate change. Basically came back, said, all green energy is bunk. There's one thing that we could do to become carbon neutral, and that's regenerative farming, but we'd have to switch over 200,000 acres, I think, of farmland. We either have to be able to explain why we're doing everything, otherwise we're going to end up in the situation that I think we are now. Tylenol, to me, was the antithesis of everything I had been trying to do. And whatever, I'm not there doing it. So, like, I don't represent them. But that was a disaster because we're here now fighting more instead of working together. Do you think we're fighting me and you? Yeah. No. But I do think that Maha and the traditional medical world, there is a lot of misunderstanding, and it's not good for anybody. What is the misunderstanding? I mean, I think the skepticism with doctors that began with COVID and I think. I don't think RFK is in HHS without Covid. I think that there has been a disaster that is just kept going, and some somehow we need to come together and make sense of this. Well, I'm hoping today that could be we're going to solve the whole thing. Well, no, I think by having these conversations, we can. Because, you know, look, okay, Secretary Kennedy got Skittles, I believe, to remove titanium dioxide, a random chemical outside of Skittles.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mike]

But, like, let's be as genuine and honest as possible today. All right? Is that the reason why Skittles is not considered a healthy food for kids? Probably not. So, like, I feel their administration is getting all these, like, random PR wins that aren't actually making America healthy. And I would love for Americans to get healthy, but they're just not doing it. And they're distracting everyone with all of this noise that I feel actually harms people. I mean, I don't entirely disagree. It feels, as someone who's trying to support this, it feels like there's sabotage in the administration. Straight up. I think the solution probably is. Okay, HHS is cool for the first time ever, whether we like the guy that became the face of it. Or not. He's a 70 year old healthy man who overcame heroin and talks to eagles. Like that's not the worst thing we could be dealing with. I think. Yeah, but we need. He needs help from the medical industry. He needs help from the pharmaceutical industry. Because it can't all be bad. There are. I agree. I would argue, because if someone fainted here Today, we're calling 911 or we're yelling.

That's. That's the thing.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mike]

I don't know if you saw during the GLP1 press conference. Yes. There was an individual. This person fainted. Did you see what Secretary Kennedy did? Makes no sense. Well, tell me what he did. He split out of the room. As if. What do you think I'm gonna do if something was to happen to you right now? Well, you took an oath. You have to help me. Okay, so why is Secretary Kennedy the one going out and saying, I care about profit? Am I gonna ask? Okay. I'll tell you even a cooler story that no one even really knows. I was on an airplane last week. I was flying across the Atlantic Ocean to France. Yes. I was exhausted. I didn't sleep the night before. The reason I didn't sleep the night before was because I was doing a Make a Wish in Disney with a child who was dying of a cancer who's only buying time because of the miraculous work at one of the Texas medical institutions. After that, I flew back home, only to fly the next day to France. I'm exhausted. They ask, is there a doctor on board? I'm exhausted. But I care about the patient more. I volunteer. I help one individual. There's a second medical emergency, I help the second individual. There's a third medical emergency, I help that individual. Do I need props for that? Do I need money for that? I couldn't care less. I want to help people. These are the type of people we. And there's so many of us. It's not me. This is who I work with. The people that I surrounded myself with, the colleagues, do they fail at times? Do they make you feel gaslit as a patient? Yes. We suck at that. Because our system sets us up as doctors for failure. Health care spending has an all time high. Absolutely true. Is that because doctors are getting paid more? Absolutely not. It's because administrators have ballooned beyond any reasonable level. Pharmaceutical companies have no transparency. Pharmacy benefit managers who take kickbacks and all sorts of rebates with zero transparency break the system. And instead of going after those issues Secretary Kennedy's calling me a profit monger. Aren't you mad at that? Yes, I absolutely am. Because I care about people and I think that we should be doing a better job. And I think that a big part of what America. There's a hurt that our food systems have been ignored by large corporate power that does run things. And somehow this movement has come out of a place of people being like, there's important things like nutrition that needs picked up. Does it want. Does it need to get taken over by pig supplements? God, no. We don't want. Need.

Thank you so much.

Hello, sir. Good to talk to you. Pleasure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Yeah. Going off of what the other guy said.

[Dr. Mike]

You're saying that why is the RFK's industry. Why is he attacking you personally? Right, As a doctor. And I don't think he's ever called it. Called you out. Dr. Mike, you know what you're saying? All doctors. Right, But I understand what. What he's saying is that the fact that there is a profit margin that they're trying to meet in the medical. Medical industry, they're merging with government, like during the COVID scam, right? And they. They had people like Dr. Fauci in which was pushing these MRNA harmful shots into the public through government mandated vaccines. Right? Well, we had options that weren't mRNA. Well, no, we did not have an option because I'm saying there were vaccines that were not mRNA.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

It was not.

[Dr. Mike]

It was not an option to take whatever shots that was mandated from government because. Right. Some of them were not. The country was in lockdown. Right? The country was in lockdown. We had masks over our faces. We had these media pouring out all these propaganda to us, right? So at the beginning of the pandemic, it was 2020, they were saying that. All right, so this is a very dangerous virus that's coming out of Wuhan, China.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

And like what you were saying about.

[Dr. Mike]

Knowledge informing the public, they did not give us the proper information about how to treat this virus. We didn't know. No, no, wait, wait. No, we did.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

No, the public didn't know.

[Dr. Mike]

Right? I didn't know. Okay, well, maybe you didn't. Okay, So, I mean.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Okay, I'm gonna assume you didn't.

[Dr. Mike]

Right, but we didn't know. So people.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

But doctors were coming out saying, no.

[Dr. Mike]

We need zinc, vitamin D, sunlight. People were. People were told to stay indoors. I agree. That was stupid. Yeah, that was very stupid. And being. Being locked in the closing of the beaches and all that stuff. Hydroxychloroquine. Right? Hydroxychloroquine. Trump was saying it's hydroxychloroquate in my work, and people just got on and attacked them for it. Now we know it works. I've taken it myself, my friends have taken it, the common flu. And it does work, right? I would say that the evidence says. No, no, no, no. It does work.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Basically, what I'm saying is the pharmaceutical.

[Dr. Mike]

Industry, through people like Anthony Fauci and.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Dr. Deborah Birx, they're merging with big government in order to do these lockdowns, in order to have government mandates, medical.

[Dr. Mike]

Mandates, in order for us to take these.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

So I don't think it's.

[Dr. Mike]

I don't think you can compare what RFK Jr is saying along with what the medical industry. What he's going up against is saying. Okay, pause. You've been voted out. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Hello.

[Dr. Mike]

Pleasure. Talk to Mike. Can you repeat the claim just real quick? We're on claim that the MAHA leadership cares less about health and more about money, power, and politics. So the previous Health and Human Services secretaries, they all cared about health, would you say? I would say that they put a higher emphasis on health, yes. Okay. Do you know our rating in the world for maternal mortality rate, infant mortality, obesity, type 1 diabetes, type 2 diabetes? We lead in all developed nations across the world. And for chronic diseases, we're number one in the world. I don't think we're number one in the world. Yeah, we are. Okay. For chronic diseases in a single. Again, it depends what you put into the chronic disease, but yes. Okay. So all this. And did you have any, like. Yeah, I have a reason. Well, I have a lot in charge before. Did you go against them because our health has been on a steady decline? I think that we're conflating a couple of things and. Check my logic.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

Yes.

[Dr. Mike]

So if you think my logic is flawed, tell me why. I think that the reason we got to where we are today is multifactorial meaning for a bunch of reasons. But the biggest reasons, I think because we live in a capitalist nation, we try and get people to eat the foods that are most addictive, that taste the best, that make us very unhealthy. And just like any other thing that we do in society, when we tire it out for making profits on one end, we try and create solutions for those problems and make money on making the solution. This happened with horse and carriages, where there was. There's poop all over the streets, and now we have the issues with cars, and people are trying to figure out ways how to make money by cleaning our environment. We're a capitalist nation. So over the last 50, 100 years or so, the chronic health diseases have gone up because people have gained a lot of weight from eating really unhealthy foods, not because we in the health care system necessarily have failed them. And there is instances why we have, but it's just because these foods were so addictive. We tried to create the highest profit margins and not take health seriously. Also social media, electronics, people not leaving their homes, being sedentary. There's folks, I have patients who don't leave their house for days because they can have relationships with people online. They have their virtual realities where they don't have to participate in sports or any kind of other activities. So in general, our lifestyles have gotten unhealthy. But to blame that on past health and Human services secretaries, I feel like is an inaccurate way to blame somebody. Well, I'm just using your logic because you said he doesn't care about health. So if it's been on a steady decline, then that means all the previous didn't care about health. I think if our increase in spending is what, 5 trillion in health care, it's 10 trillion worldwide, we spend 50% compared the whole world in health care. We're ranked number one in all those categories. So if it's been on a steady decline, then you have to have some against all the previous ones too. Right? So you're looking at some certain numbers and you're just zooming in on those numbers. Again, as I mentioned earlier, chronic health diseases have gone up. Part of that is because there's less acute death. So we've had wins in preventing acute death. So people who have sepsis, who have strokes, who have heart attacks, pharma has been driving the survival of these individuals. Now, here's the problem. When you solve someone's acute illness, they end up being a sick person for longer and end up turning into a chronic health patient. So this is an interesting example of our successes actually counting against us. So vaccines, eliminating certain conditions in the world, in the world, smallpox, polio, measles in the year 2000, it's back now has led people to believe that these diseases aren't so bad because they don't see them, because we've eradicated them. When we help people survive a heart attack and now they become a chronic health patient, we view that as a failure because chronic health health numbers are going up. I view it as partially a failure because we could do better there, but also a win that we Helped them overcome and mortality has dropped. Yeah, well, our lifespans increased, but our health spans decreased. So by 2015, what's your definition of health span? So longevity of like not chronic diseases, obesity, type 1 diabetes, maternal mortality. Yeah, those things. All those. I think lifestyle changes are big. So our lifespans increased by health span decrease. By 20, 20, 50, we're going to be ranked 66 in the world. I hate because those are not very accurate. And one medication coming out like we're seeing with the Ozempics, WeGovy's that RFK is now excited about can drastically change those outcomes. So it's very difficult to predict those numbers in the future. I will say, like just zooming in and saying everyone before Secretary Kennedy was terrible because chronic health disease has gone up and Secretary Kennedy must be better is just not true. Maybe the previous ones could have been better as well. I've criticized Fauci. I criticized Dr. Fauci to his. They didn't care about health either. Well, I think if you're going to make that claim, you have to make that claim for everyone.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I think they did.

[Dr. Mike]

That's what I'm saying. I think they did keep it consistent. There's difference between they didn't care about health or their policies were unsuccessful. I don't think Secretary Kennedy is actually doing any policies that are meaningfully successful.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Right.

[Dr. Mike]

Okay, pause. We're out of time. Yeah. I wanted to get into pharmaceuticals, but.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mike]

So many choices. I feel like we had a very argumentative end. I chose Jack for the final debate because I feel Jack is arguing in good faith. I believe Jack is very passionate. And I also feel a little bit bad by raising my voice earlier. It was because of passion for patience, but I wanted to rekindle our relationship and see if we can get on a better page. How do you feel about coming up?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

What's that?

[Dr. Mike]

I said, how do you feel about coming up? But it sounds.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I'm blessed. I'm very grateful to talk to you. I mean, I've watched your stuff. I've known who you are for many, many years. My surrounded claim is that unchecked Big Pharma is reason enough for Kennedy's reforms. So I guess what I want to start this off with is just a little bit of history. Okay. And in 1986, what was signed into law by Ronald Reagan was the National Child Vaccine Injury Act. And from there, you are no longer able to sue companies like Pfizer, holding them, holding them accountable for vaccine injury or things like that, for the specific reason that they wanted the out. They wanted the releasing of vaccines to be more effective to the public. Right. So they set up a national compensation fund. Then you're playing by the federal government's rules in their own courts. And so also another thing that happened is in 2010, I'm going to cite this, is there was a Supreme Court case called Citizens United versus fec. What they decided in the Supreme Court case was that now a corporation is a person, is a single, a singular person, and that to restrict the amount of money that they are able to give to somebody running in a campaign would be infringing on their First Amendment right of freedom of expression. And so from there, we now have today where 95 out of 100 United States senators are now backed by Big Pharma. And then you also have, on the flip side, referring back to what Ronald Reagan did in the 80s, you have a large amount of doctors now that are being paid off. As I bring up the statistic again, 70% of research being published by physicians is published with a conflict of interest, 80% of NIH funding comes from Big Pharma. Things like these, I say, are reason enough that Kennedy's reforms need to take place.

[Dr. Mike]

It's interesting. You bring up quite a few subjects. I'll start with the Vaccine Injury Fund. I think that's valuable. I think perhaps your interpretation of the rule there is not exactly accurate. If you go through this National Injury Vaccine Compensation Fund and you're not happy with what you received, and you're saying that they didn't give me enough money or it's taking too long, you could drop out and you could sue a vaccine manufacturer. That's absolutely true. You could. That's unequivocally true. That's unequivocally so.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

But the thing is that the problem is in our country, we have Big Pharma has protections that no other.

[Dr. Mike]

That.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I mean, I was trying to get out here for Big, Big Supplement because I was going to argue that Big Pharma has protections that Big Supplement does not.

[Dr. Mike]

Well, they have protections, but they also have a responsibility to put out research that is checked by independent researchers where Big Supplement doesn't like. How do we know that taking a medication to lower your blood pressure prevents a heart attack? Because they did the research studies to prove it. But when someone recommends a supplement, they don't have to do that.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So I think it's different. So in the state of California, I mean, as of 1980. Sorry about. As of 1980, in all 50 states, you are required to get A vaccine to go to public school. Right. This is the thing. So the difference between big pharma and big supplement is choice. You have several different manufacturers or companies making the exact same thing. The reason why something is called a supplement is because you're supplementing something that's already in your diet. So in today's day in America, 70% of children have. Sorry, 70% of a child's diet is now ultra processed foods. Right. And so from there you're having things like vitamin C, creatine, all these things which already exist in the foods we eat, which we are now lacking at a rate like never before because of the diet we have in America.

[Dr. Mike]

Do you think there's a widespread issue of vitamin C deficiency in the United States?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I'm not sure specifically about vitamin C. I don't know.

[Dr. Mike]

Creatine deficiency? I don't know.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I'm saying is. So creatine appears in foods like steak, whatever else. And when we're eating those less than we did before, it's necessary.

[Dr. Mike]

Are you eating red meats less than before?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I would say so. Natural red meat.

[Dr. Mike]

American Standard diet is natural.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Red meat is what a cheeseburger is made out of. Is not necessarily the same as.

[Dr. Mike]

I think this is a really cool thing for us to end on because it's going to be about me making a disclosure that I'm curious how it lands for you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

Are you familiar with the pharmaceutical company Abbott? No. Okay. Well, there's a pharmaceutical company, It's a giant pharmaceutical company. They're called Abbott Labs. They paid me over the last five years. I created content for them. Do you think that biases me as a physician? To be a worse physician, I would.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Have to know more about you and things that you said, things that you reported. Things like that to be able to.

[Dr. Mike]

Say based on the conversations you heard today. Or is it reasonable to bias?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

You haven't talked about Abbott.

[Dr. Mike]

Well, here's the reason why I bring it up. Because some people bring this up as a way to sort of weaponize the fact that I've taken money from big pharma and I think it's reasonable to bring it up. Whether or not it does bias me. I think I should evaluate that within myself. Here's what I took money from Abbott for to create a multi year long campaign to encourage blood donation.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Okay.

[Dr. Mike]

Abbott is one of the largest testers in the United States of donated blood. So they make money by checking donated blood to make sure it's free of diseases. Because that's what we want, right? Like if you get into a car accident, you get a transfusion, you want disease free blood. So I think it's a good thing that they do that. And they were facing a huge shortage, especially after the pandemic. So they hired me to try and figure out a way to encourage blood donation.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So your main argument would be that we should look into, okay, the actions that people are actually taking when they do take money from companies or whatever that be, and we want to see what people are doing with it.

[Dr. Mike]

Sure.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So should you say that that argument then applies to RFK's actions after winning lawsuits and getting paid from those.

[Dr. Mike]

Sorry, I didn't follow.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Okay, so then you criticize RFK from taking money. Right. So I think that we should say here is, okay, we need to apply that exact same logic to Kennedy because you criticized him heavily for taking money and in the lawsuits in the case.

[Dr. Mike]

I didn't criticize him. I said, I presented that because someone said earlier that if someone is biased by taking money from a pharmaceutical company, I said, how is he not biased? Bias if he's taking money from a lawsuit case.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So I think generally your overall argument is that so often bias isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Dr. Mike]

I think bias that is hidden is a bad thing.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Okay, how would you say that something is a hidden bias when you have situations like on a grand scale in the United States? And this is kind of my overall problem. Right. Is that you're seeing that this money is actually making a difference. It's not just somebody supporting a company or whoever is giving them money because they believe in what that company stands for. Right. Because what we're seeing is if you give a doctor even a meal as small as $20, then they're actually going to be more likely to prescribe.

[Dr. Mike]

So do you think I'm more biased because I took a lot of money from Abbott?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

That's the thing I don't know anything about.

[Dr. Mike]

But you just said $20 will bias you, so. I took way more than $20, I promise you.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

But are you actively writing prescriptions right now?

[Dr. Mike]

Of course. I'm a practicing physician. But do you know how many vaccines Abbott, for example, makes here?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

No.

[Dr. Mike]

Zero.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I'll say. You specifically, I'll say. You know, I'll be respectful. You got me there. But that's the thing is I just don't.

[Dr. Mike]

But it's not about getting there. It just. It's about the fact that, like my issue with bias is, to me, bias becomes an issue when it's hidden and there's a lack of transparency. And I fault a pharmaceutical company for playing these games with pharmacy. Pharmacy benefit managers, they play these types of untransparent issues all the time, and I hate it. But when you have administrators within the MAHA leadership, Casey means, Kaylee means, these individuals can be taking money from companies and no one is aware of who's taking the money. But when you look at the Sunshine act, which requires pharmaceutical companies to tell the truth about doctors taking money, you know, so the transparency is there.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

When it comes to.

[Dr. Mike]

Don't you think there's less bias when there's transparency?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Yes, absolutely. That's one of the things that RFK and the MAHA movement represent.

[Dr. Mike]

So when he shuts down public opinion after an HHS policy, you think that.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Well, it's specific. It's specific to shareholders, and they want to know what they.

[Dr. Mike]

Stakeholders.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Stakeholders.

[Dr. Mike]

Stakeholders, meaning that a policy that will impact someone's life. So imagine HHS was ruling on a policy for a condition that you had. They just cut HIV funding. I'm not saying you have hiv, but let's say someone has hiv. Well, let's take that back. Let's say someone has HIV and they just cut HIV funding before HHS would have to have a time of public opinion to voice concerns about that, he removed it. Where is the radical transparency?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So here's the thing. The one thing you need to understand about the federal government is that it is intended to move slow. Right? And the thing is that the Senate legislation, they are in charge of the purse of the United States of America. And right now, we're on a government shutdown. Right. And so in order to get a lot of funding for these things, it has to come from the legislation. And so until we can get spending, which, I mean, Democrats wanted to increase our spending on Medicare and Medicaid by $1.5 trillion. So until we get this money, you can make cuts, but it's largely. It's very, very difficult for the federal government to then add things.

[Dr. Mike]

So Secretary Kennedy is part of an administration that controls the legislative branch, the executive branch.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

No, it does not. There is separation of powers. The executive branch does not control.

[Dr. Mike]

Well, they have the majority in the.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Legislative branch, the majority is nothing.

[Dr. Mike]

When you have executive branch and the judicial branch. Why is more not being done to rein in pharmaceutical companies? Why is more not being done about improving chronic health conditions with children instead of talking about Skittles and titanium dioxide?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Well, it's not that simple. You have something in our Senate called the filibuster. So even if Republicans have a majority.

[Dr. Mike]

So you're going to present something that someone filibustered against. You're talking about all these hypotheticals.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I'm talking about why they can't get money in the first place is because.

[Dr. Mike]

We'Re in a shutdown. Money for what?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

The federal government gets money from the.

[Dr. Mike]

Legislation when they pass a bill or so. What about the time that he was in office before that?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Well, the thing is, the federal government, like I said, moves forward very, very slow. So the very beginning of his administration was intended to, okay, look over those things, bring oversight, and then make these cuts. And now when it comes time to actually pass a spending bill, we're not able to do that because we're in a lockout and we can't even agree on things like that. Even when you have a majority, a filibuster is still very, very powerful. But I still don't think that it should be.

[Dr. Mike]

So let me ask you this, because this is a good question for me to understand your position better. Secretary Kennedy's been in the office about a year. Is that fair to say? It's a little less than that, but let's say a year. So far, he's removed red dyes, which is, I think, is a good thing, out of kids foods. Some random other things about swapping oils for one another, which I don't think makes a big difference, removing certain oils.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So are you upset with him by not doing enough?

[Dr. Mike]

I want to recap everything he's done and then we could talk about it. Okay, so those are the big things he's done. He's also published the Maha report, this landmark report that they celebrated that had false sources in it, inaccurate statistics. He did a press conference saying that he swore he'd find the cause of autism, where he said the cause, and then two weeks later took it back. You feel like this is a good first year for him?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Well, the thing is that science is a constant thing. Science is constantly developing. And so you can't necessarily hold him to something that he says, even when he retracts it. I would honestly say that that itself is transparency.

[Dr. Mike]

So what happened in the two weeks from when he said Tylenol did cause autism to when it didn't? What new information came out that suddenly scientifically made him change his mind?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Enough scientific evidence to disprove.

[Dr. Mike]

You think, you think research was published in those two weeks?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Do I think the research. Well, not necessarily, but they could have, in their systems, looked at more research outside of that.

[Dr. Mike]

I don't think they should have done that before making A press conference to millions of people.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

The thing is, what actually happened is he said that there could be a possible link. He didn't just say, well, the Tylenol.

[Dr. Mike]

Caused commissioner went on Fox News and said causes.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

He straight up said causes. But then again, two weeks later they went back and they said that this is the case.

[Dr. Mike]

Yeah, but there was no new. Like I get. I'm trying to be fair. Let's say they said it causes it. And then in the middle of that, two weeks later, they published a new article that disproves and they go, we learned we need to take it back. I wouldn't judge them for that. But that didn't happen.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

I mean, so often though, you do judge Kennedy for things that he doesn't necessarily believe anymore.

[Dr. Mike]

Like what?

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

And specifically I was talking about that Kennedy. Well, he said that half of China has diabetes.

[Dr. Mike]

Right.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

And so the actual percentage was 13% had diabetes. And then the remainder, making up that half is actually has pre diabetes. And so I don't think you should necessarily hold things like that against him.

[Dr. Mike]

Because he's saying I should hold the Secretary of Health and Human Services from getting statistics wrong over and over again.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

Well, no, it's not.

[Dr. Mike]

It's like if he has that's the most important thing for him. He's in charge. He's the one making decisions.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

The thing is, if he's conflicted by something and there's something that says something, I think it's honest. If he would present that in front.

[Dr. Mike]

Of the American people. Right. But it didn't take me a lot of work to find out what the number was. Like if I could find it out as a YouTuber. Why can't the Secretary of Health and Human Services get the numbers right before making up? It's not like someone asked him off the cuff, what's the percentage? And they gotcha, you got it wrong. He presented it at a conference.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

So simply for him presenting a study that contains nuance, you're gonna have a problem.

[Dr. Mike]

It's not he's presenting nuance. He's presenting inaccurate information that is very simple to fact check.

I think it was a really productive conversation between folks who very much disagree with me. And I'm hoping today was an opportunity for them to see that doctors are interested in helping them, that the healthcare system could be revived. And there's absolutely opportunities for us to.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

See eye to eye when there's rebellion. An empire is always going to call it misinformation, dishonesty, et cetera, et cetera. All these things so if you are going to attempt to try to convince these people that you really have the truth, you can't frame things in a dishonest way like he did today.

[Dr. Mike]

Somehow the information has been weaponized and we're fighting. And that needs to end. And someone needs to be big enough to bridge that gap. Instead of focusing on better transfer, transparency, more scientific rigor, we instead have an individual who doesn't quite understand science. Someone who takes anecdote over hard data. And ultimately that's going to make worse outcomes for all of us. Hey listeners, just want to remind you we have episodes of the Pod coming out every Sunday, so please consider subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for your support.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

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[Dr. Mike]

Fascinating.

[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

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[Dr. Mike]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 1]

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[Dr. Mike]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 3]

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[RFK Jr. Supporter 2]

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