Governor Wes Moore vs 20 Non-Voters | Surrounded

Summary

Surrounded: Governor Wes Moore vs 20 Non-Voters | Detailed Podcast Summary

Podcast: Surrounded (Jubilee Media)
Episode: Governor Wes Moore vs 20 Non-Voters
Date: July 5, 2026
Host: John Regolato
Guest: Governor Wes Moore (Maryland)

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Episode Theme Overview

This episode of Surrounded dives deep into the complex and often contentious topic of voting, political engagement, and political skepticism in the United States. Maryland Governor Wes Moore faces a group of twenty non-voters, each with their own reasons for political disengagement or protest. The conversation examines whether or not individual votes can actually shape policy, the role of protest vs. electoral participation, money in politics, the impact of historical and systemic disenfranchisement, and the personal nature of political identity. The discussion is urgent, raw, and seeks to bridge divides, with Governor Moore challenged to both explain and defend the true impact and value of voting—while fielding pointed critiques from the non-voters.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power (and Limits) of a Vote

Claim: "Nothing shapes policy more effectively than your vote." (Wes Moore, 02:02)

Summary:

• Wes Moore introduces the central claim, arguing that every policy that affects daily life is born of political decision-making and thus voting is the greatest lever to shape policy.
• Non-voters counter that activism, protest, and social movements have historically been the real driver of change, pointing to the Civil Rights Movement and subsequent legislation.

Notable Exchange:

• Naseem (Non-voter): "I feel that it's more effective to mobilize in the streets or protest… There are other ways of participating." (03:11)

• Wes Moore: "We don't get things like the Civil Rights Act...without the protest. But the goal was to get policymakers to respond to that protest." (03:43)

• The conversation acknowledges a synergy: protest catalyzes government action, but enacting lasting change still requires legislative follow-through—which voting ultimately enables.

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2. Protest vs. Electoralism

Summary:

• Non-voters argue that sometimes not voting is more rational than supporting candidates who don't represent them.
• Governor Moore expresses understanding but insists that attacks on voting rights signal the continued power of the vote.

Notable Quote:

• Wes Moore: "If your voting rights were not important, why are they working so hard to take them away from you?" (06:37)

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3. Systemic Barriers: Representation and Disillusionment

Summary:

• Discussion of how American democracy has grown less directly representative: Congressional districts now contain vastly more people than originally intended, diluting individual voices.
• Calls for redistricting reform and discussion of "Uncap the House" movement.
• Moore defends the continuous need not only for voting, but also for reforming how elections and representation work.

Notable Quote:

• Skeptical Voter - History Nerd: "How is my vote supposed to inform anything with the representative that cannot hear me?" (08:53)

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4. Money and Corruption in Politics

Summary:

• Participants argue that the influence of super PACs, lobbyists, and billionaires outweighs individual votes.
• Moore acknowledges the corrosive effect of big money in politics, points to his own campaign’s reliance on small donors, and details anti-corruption executive orders in Maryland.

Notable Exchange:

• Bayonne Bayon: "All of those policies are well shaped months…before any person in this room puts a ballot into a box." (15:27)
• Wes Moore: "When I first started running, I was polling at 1%...The people of Maryland were the ones who made me the governor…it was not a political party, it definitely was not a corporate interest." (17:17)

Key Action (Maryland):

• Signed state Voting Rights Act to counteract federal rollbacks; implemented ban on prediction trading for government workers; required future governors’ assets in blind trust for transparency. (37:07, 35:55)

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5. Identity, Political Tribes, and Disengagement

Summary:

• Some non-voters express concern about the tribalism of U.S. political parties and the perception that voting either doesn't matter or forces voters to pick the "lesser of two evils."
• Moore agrees party identity can be toxic and emphasizes voting values over party.
• Conversation around political identity as "tribal" vs. genuine representation: privacy in the voting booth is upheld as a virtue.

Notable Quotes:

• Felicia: "I think voting is corruption. You go to the ballots and all you see is Democrat, Republican…if my policies don't match with one or the other, my vote's not going to count." (46:44)
• Wes Moore: "Anybody who just swallows a party ideology is not thinking hard enough…there has to be a better system." (47:13)

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6. Generational Disillusionment and Historical Trauma

Summary:

• The conversation spotlights historical betrayal (e.g., the Nixon election, War on Drugs) and the ongoing legacy of racial and economic injustice.
• Moore discusses how policy choices—and who holds power—directly influence reparations, social justice, and economic opportunity.

Notable Quote:

• Ms. Lips: "Our votes did not count...it hurt generations to come." (24:33)
• Wes Moore: "...the work of repair actually is voting…You address bad policies [by getting] people in those seats who can better address those policies." (27:06)

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7. The Efficacy (or Futility) of Voting in the Face of Corruption

Summary:

• Questions about whether voting truly combats corruption, or whether it merely legitimizes a broken system.
• Moore frames participation as the only way to hold leaders accountable; disengagement, he argues, absolves leaders of responsibility.

Notable Exchange:

• Roger: "If not voting leads to the corruption. How do you explain the corruption despite so much voting?" (40:36)
• Wes Moore: "I think elections actually do matter…I’ve taken on these utility companies…and we have capped compensation for these utility executives. Elections matter…" (40:42)

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8. Local Impact and the Importance of Down-Ballot Races

Summary:

• Focus shifts to the transformative power of local and state-level policy, which is often more immediately consequential in citizens’ lives than federal politics.
• Example: AB12 bill in California, as recalled by a former foster youth, demonstrably improved outcomes for vulnerable populations.

Notable Quote:

• Wes Moore: "If we do not fix the systems in place… we will just simply find ourselves cleaning up the debris that comes from broken policies." (63:09)
• Former Foster Youth Advocate: "It's not Democrat…it's humanitarian, and I choose to put my energy in towards local impact." (61:51)

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9. Building Trust, Skepticism, and the Call for Better Candidates

Summary:

• Participants remain wary; even if local change is possible, the national stage feels distant and corrupted.
• Moore ends with an appeal for civic engagement—not just as voters, but as candidates who value public service over self-interest.
• The power of skepticism: Moore argues it’s necessary, but should never lead to cynicism or disengagement.

Notable Quote:

• Wes Moore: "Skepticism will always be my companion. It just will never be my captor." (76:36)

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10. Emotional Resonance and Legacy

Summary:

• Both Moore and skeptics share personal stories of loss, poverty, and struggle as motivators for engagement—and cautionary tales about system failure.
• The importance of honoring ancestors' sacrifices is repeatedly invoked as a moral imperative to engage, despite disillusionment.

Notable Quote:

• Wes Moore: "Do you know who does not want us to disengage? Our ancestors…They want us never to lose the power that they fought for." (28:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "[Your voting] is not saying, I'm consenting to the system. Your voting is saying, I'm participating in making the system better."
  — Wes Moore (09:38)

• "If your voting rights were not important, why are they working so hard to take them away from you?"
  — Wes Moore (06:37)

• "Our ancestors would be very disappointed if we chose not to vote…That's a little disingenuous."
  — Non-voter Activist (29:50-30:07)

• "Citizens United was maybe the worst decision that the Supreme Court ever made; it needs to be overturned."
  — Wes Moore (16:18)

• "I think there's a poison in [political identity], where it almost has become very tribal."
  — Wes Moore (57:45)

• "Skepticism will always be my companion. It just will never be my captor."
  — Wes Moore (76:36)

• "If you choose to disengage, you cannot complain when the nightmares continue."
  — Wes Moore (85:09)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• (02:02): Governor Moore introduces claim: the vote as the most effective tool for shaping policy.
• (03:11–07:33): Debate over protest vs. voting (Civil Rights movement, efficacy of direct action).
• (08:53–11:47): Critique of representation dilution; call for reform.
• (15:27–21:43): The impact of money and lobbyists in politics; grassroots vs. corporate power.
• (24:33–29:11): Personal and historical trauma; reparations, efficacy of the vote for Black Americans.
• (35:55–37:45): Anti-corruption policies and transparency initiatives in Maryland.
• (40:36–47:13): Is voting essentially legitimizing corruption? Party disillusionment.
• (61:51–66:04): Story of a foster youth advocate; importance of local policy and advocacy.
• (67:43–80:25): Final deep dive on disengagement, self-love, and the call for a more humane, connective political culture.
• (85:09–End): Moore’s closing challenge to non-voters; participant reflections (did Wes convince them to vote?).

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Episode Takeaways

• Voting, while imperfect, remains the best available lever for enacting systemic change—especially at the state and local level.
• Protest, advocacy, and civic engagement are necessary, but translating those into policy still requires electoral participation.
• Systemic barriers, big money, and party tribalism foster legitimate disillusionment. A functional democracy requires both reform and new kinds of candidates.
• Identity in politics can be a source of toxicity; the future lies in value-driven, not party-driven, participation.
• Skepticism is necessary, but disengagement only guarantees the status quo will persist.
• Moore’s personal and policy record in Maryland is presented as a model of the impact engaged, transparent leadership can have at the state level.
• The episode ultimately advocates not just for voting, but for active, multifaceted involvement in democracy—watchdog groups, unions, local initiatives, and running for office.

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For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In

This episode is a fast-moving and honest dialogue between a high-profile elected official and skeptical citizens. It confronts head-on the frustrations, betrayals, and barriers that keep many Americans from voting. Yet, Governor Moore—without minimizing these challenges—argues forcefully for participation, transparency, and civic hope. While not every skeptic is convinced, the exchange is passionate, grounded, and filled with actionable ideas, historical context, and emotional resonance. If you want a window into the deepest arguments for and against voting in the modern U.S., this episode is essential listening.

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“If you choose to disengage, you cannot complain when the nightmares continue. But if we choose to get involved… then I think we’re actually doing something where we can build a society that people came before us hoped for.”
— Wes Moore (85:09)

Transcript

[Non-voter Activist]

Every single one of these people's votes does not matter at all because the money does not flow to their pockets, but the pockets of the oligarchy.

[Wes Moore]

Do you know who does not want us to disengage the people who came before us. They want us to use our voice. They want us never to lose the power that they fought for.

[Skeptical Voter]

Why should I be incentivized to vote if I know for a fact that nobody is going to live up to the expectations that they're going to change when nothing has?

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Do Americans still believe their vote has power? Or do some view that not voting is a form of protest? John I'm John Regolato and from Jubilee Media. This is surrounded where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreers. Today we are exploring why many Americans choose not to vote and how voting shapes policy and why exercising the right to vote matters. I'm here with our featured guest, Maryland Governor Wes Moore. Welcome to the show.

[Wes Moore]

Thanks a lot. Appreciate you.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

You ready to debate these non voters?

[Wes Moore]

Yes sir.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Non voters. You ready to debate the governor? All right, let's get into it.

[Wes Moore]

What's going on everybody? My name is Wes Moore. I'm the governor of Maryland. This is the first political office I've ever held and today I am surrounded by 20 non voters.

[Non-voter Activist]

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[Wes Moore]

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[Non-voter Activist]

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[Non-voter Activist]

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[Wes Moore]

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[Wes Moore]

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[Wes Moore]

a limited time only while supplies last contact store for availability. My first surrounded claim is nothing shapes policy more effectively than your vote.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, if you want to debate this claim, please get to the chair in 3, 2, 1.

[Wes Moore]

Hi Wes, how you doing?

[Naseem]

I'm Naseem. Nice to Meet you.

[Wes Moore]

Nice to meet you, man.

[Naseem]

So I kind of want to hear first, why you think nothing shapes policy more than your vote.

[Wes Moore]

Because I've seen it firsthand. I have seen how everything is a policy decision in our life. The water we drink is a policy decision. The air we are breathing, that is a policy decision. The neighborhoods were policed and how we're policed. That everything I have realized and learned is a policy decision. And I think about, for my own family, like, I don't come from a family that's used to making the policies. I come from a family that's used to suffering the consequences of them. And so I know that the policies that are being made are being made in our name, with our money, with our tax dollars, but oftentimes they do not reflect what we actually hope for. And that's why I believe that we have a responsibility to make sure we have the right people in the right seats that are making the right decisions that are actually on our behalf.

[Naseem]

So I want to point to a historical example first, the Civil Rights act of 1964. And that was kind of come about from a movement rather than necessarily getting to the ballot box. I'm not going to speak for everybody here, but I know for me, I feel that it's more effective to mobilize in the streets or protest in the streets rather than sometimes going out to the ballot box where I don't feel the candidates represent what I'm looking for. So I think there are other ways of participating in shaping policy rather than just voting no.

[Wes Moore]

And I think it's a very fair point. But also, I think it's also important to remember what was the goal of the civil rights movement. Right. The goal of the civil rights movement wasn't just to protest. The goal of the civil rights movement was to get to a Civil Rights act. Like, the reason that people protested, the reason that people were in the streets wasn't just because they wanted to blow off steam, was because they wanted the elected officials to hear their voice. And so we don't get things like the Civil Rights Act. We don't get the Voting Rights Act. We don't get, not just the right to vote, but we don't get, like, things like the desegregation of schools. We don't get the elimination of policies like separate. Separate but equal, just by the protest alone. What happened was it forced these politicians to do a better job of actually representing our views. And so that's why I think the protest does matter. Like, our voice does matter. But what the protest is actually helping to do. It's helping these politicians to wake up and realize that if you don't do what we are telling you to do, we will remove you from office.

[Naseem]

So I hate to be that guy, but the claim specifically says nothing shapes policy more. And I don't personally think that the Civil Rights act of 1964 would have happened without the movement. And that's why I'm arguing that the movement is what really like, provoked that to even happen in the first place. I guess my question is how can. How can we feel that candidates today are going to provoke this change and provoke the policies that we want without, you know, kind of protesting, without giving them our vote in the first place?

[Wes Moore]

Well, I think. I think the protest is actually important, right, Because I think the protest is helping people to make sure they hear our voice. But then what also happens is what the protest then does. It leads us and allows us for a greater opportunity to make sure that our voice is heard with the elected officials. What was one of the goals of the civil rights movement? Right. One of the biggest impacts of the Civil rights movement was the Voting Rights act, right? The Voting Rights act was the thing that actually gave people a fundamental and constitutional right to vote, that we could have all the protests in the world. But at the end of the day, you still were telling me that I could not select who my elected officials are going to be. And so one of the goals of the civil rights movement and one of the biggest takeaways from the civil rights movement is actually the Voting Rights Act. The Voting Rights act would not have happened without protest, but the Voting Rights act was the thing that gave people the right to vote, to make sure we can get elected officials that actually represent our views.

[Naseem]

And I'm not going to disagree that voting isn't an integral part of democracy and provoking this policy that we're looking for, I'm arguing that it's not quite as effective as the movement itself. I think that the movement itself, coming from people who were not politically disengaged, but actually very aware of what was going on in America, I feel like the conception around non voters is that they're apathetic and they're not kind of understanding what's going on in our political landscape, whereas I think it's actually quite the opposite for me. I didn't vote because I was too engaged. I felt like I couldn't morally get behind either candidate, especially in like 2024. So that's why I feel that voters now it's More rational not to vote because of the candidates that were presented, rather than.

[Wes Moore]

I mean, listen, I think the frustration that you have is actually very much shared by me. And the truth is, is that when I told my family that I wanted to run for governor, like, I had to convince many members of my family to vote for me. You know what I mean? And it's not because we're not cool. Like, we're cool. It's. I had to convince them to vote because I think the frustration that you're talking about is real. But I would say, if your voting rights were not important, why are they working so hard to take them away from you? If the voting rights. If your voting rights were not so important, why is the dismantling of the Voting Rights act so egregious? The reason that they are trying to take it away is because it is powerful. The reason that they're trying to take it away is because they know that that is your chance to be able to make sure that if people are not representing your views, we get them out. And that's why I think that the protest is important. But if you look at what the goal of the protest was, one of the biggest takeaways of the civil rights movement, it was actually voting rights.

[Naseem]

I'd argue that was a different point.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

We gotta pause there. You've been voted out by the majority.

[Naseem]

Thank you.

[Wes Moore]

No, I appreciate it, man.

[Naseem]

Thank you.

[Wes Moore]

Thank you, brother.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, if you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Hello.

[Skeptical Voter]

Hi.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Oh, Shawn.

[Pri West]

Sean West.

[Wes Moore]

Nice to meet you.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Nice to meet you. So what I was really struggling with was when you said that we fought for voices, for representation. And that's kind of my whole grub with this, is that how are we supposed to affect policy changes with our vote when our vote has been so diluted over time? I mean, you know, the 1929 act that I'm referring to. So, you know, I think about the Constitution. I think about. I'm a big history nerd. So, you know, one of the only things that Washington mentioned in the convention was that we need one representative for every 30,000. You know, we're well off of that. We're like 700,000 people for one representative. And so how is my vote supposed to inform anything with the representative that cannot hear me? And that is why we have an oligarchy. That is why we have a system of so many trying to be heard, and then just only a few out of this actually get to dictate policy. What Is your solution to that?

[Wes Moore]

I think the solution is we need people who are making better policies because, you know, who made those policies? People that were sitting in power. Yeah, right. When, when, when.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

That was 100 years ago.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, but. But think about it. You know, it was also 100 years ago I was considered 3/5 of a man. Well, I mean, like. So my point is, we needed people,

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

I don't know, 100 years ago, maybe

[Wes Moore]

not 100 years ago. This has been an.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Women didn't have voting rights in 1929.

[Wes Moore]

That's exactly.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

I'm not saying it's perfect.

[Wes Moore]

Correct.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

But it was definitely more representative per constituent. And I'm saying we're in 2026. We can get to a better place. And I don't know, I don't see any leader actually trying to actually have a meaningful vote. They say, go vote, but what is that going to do when you're basically. And it's almost like you're giving your consent to this broken system?

[Wes Moore]

So I would actually argue that your voting is not saying, I'm consenting to the system. Your voting is saying, I'm participating in making the system better.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Okay. Because I think there's a candidate that wanted to fix it then. I guess I would do that. But I haven't heard Anyone mention the 1929 act of, you know, I mean,

[Wes Moore]

so I mean, I mean, perfect example. Just, you know, just a couple of weeks ago, you know, right before the Supreme Court took out Voting Rights act and did what I consider to be the greatest form of political redlining that we have seen in our nation and probably in generations. The day before they did that, you know what I did in Maryland, I actually signed the Voting Rights act of Maryland for 2026, which made sure that we are actually fortified and certifying voting rights and enfranchisement for everybody inside of the state, no matter what the Supreme Court does, no matter how the Supreme Court.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

What does that mean? Exactly.

[Wes Moore]

So basically, it's making sure that however the Supreme Court wants to try to disenfranchise and rig rules and rig lines, that in the state of Maryland, that we have an independent elections board.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Okay.

[Wes Moore]

That. That the ruling of the independent elections board is what we are going to follow, and we're not going to follow the rulings of, to your point, a king or someone sitting in Washington.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

I would just say, you know, again, I would say that with the poor representation, with this system that we're already in, how does someone actually try to get more representation? Like we have A. We have a consensus every. Sorry, I can't pronounce.

[Wes Moore]

Census.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Yeah, census. Every 10 years. And that is usually when those kind of changes happen. And so that's coming up in 20, 30. I don't hear it. I see there's one movement called Uncap the House. I don't know if you've heard of it, but, yeah, like, I don't see much support coming in from people like yourself, like people in power.

[Wes Moore]

But. And I would say. So I actually have called for saying we need national registering reform, and I think that the census is actually be the appropriate time to be able to do it, because right now there is a system where you have politicians who are picking their voters. Yes. And not voters who are picking their politicians. But, you know. You know, the only way that's going to happen is if we actually have a Congress who is going to get national redistricting reform done.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

And the only way that's going to happen is if we actually choose to lean into the process. That will never happen. If we then choose to opt out,

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

then how do you choose actual candidates?

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Sorry, we have to pause there. You've been voted out.

[Roger]

No problem.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Thank you.

[Wes Moore]

I appreciate it, man. Thank you. Thank you.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

If you'd like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. You're good.

[Ms. Lips]

You're good.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

She wanted it.

[Pri West]

There you go. Hi. Pri.

[Wes Moore]

Pri West. Nice to meet you.

[Pri West]

Nice to meet you.

[Wes Moore]

Nice to meet you, too.

[Pri West]

Okay, Wes. I am a citizen now. Born and brought up in England. I always used to vote conservative. Came to the U.S. never in my life, and I was born in 1981, has anyone ever told me that I'm less than because I'm a woman and a woman of color. Never in my life. Moving to America, I was told, oh, you have to vote Democrat because, you know, this is what's happening. And, yes, I was fully behind Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris at the last election, but then I got pissed off. Two years they sat on their overturning of Roe and Wade when they had the White House. Is it really that difficult to have an independent health authority to make women's bodily rights a priority? Why does it have to be written into law? Because I thought that the US Was the leader of the free world.

[Wes Moore]

I love this question, and I tell you, and honestly. And I love your story, too.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Thank you.

[Wes Moore]

I'm actually the son of an immigrant single mom, and one of the things that I just love and appreciate about just the evolution of this country is that this can be a place where stories like hers, yours and mine can actually be real.

[Pri West]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

And I take the example where you're talking about for reproductive health as one great example. One of the other things that I love about the way that the structure can actually work here is even when the federal government makes a decision that I think is ridiculous and really bad, that states actually do have authority too. Because right after Roe v. Wade fell, and basically something that was the law of the land for decades, that they then turned around and said, well, actually, women do not have a right to choose what happens with their body after our election. And one thing I campaigned on and what I got done in the first months after I was elected as governor is I said, we're going to make sure that in Maryland, that does not stand. And actually, we made protection of reproductive health part of our state's constitution so that no matter what the Supreme Court says in the state of Maryland, women are actually going to be the ones who are in charge of what happens with their bodies. And that right is going to be protected inside of my state. And I don't care what the Supreme Court says on that.

[Pri West]

So may I ask you a question? In Maryland, have you made it mandatory to have sex education to show that the disadvantages of what contraception do, like, especially oral contraception, because one of the reasons why the far right are opposing it is because there are children having organ failure, because they're popping, you know, the morning after, like skittles, because they're not educated enough.

[Wes Moore]

And that's actually another great example where I do. That's where I do think that elections do have consequences, because, you know, for a lot of things, when it comes to education, it is done on a local level, but we actually do have education for. For all of our kids about, you know, and also, by the way, looking at things like family planning. So while we also did things like making sure that reproductive health is now in our state's constitution, we also have family planning and family planning education that takes place for the people of our state. And so elections do matter in that account because we can both focus on the education for our young people, making sure they know the rights that they have, but also making sure that those rights are then reinforced and that those rights are going to be protected. That no matter what happens on the federal side.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

We gotta pause there. You've been voted out by the authority.

[Wes Moore]

It goes by fast.

[Pri West]

Love to meet you.

[Wes Moore]

Lovely to meet you, too. Thank you so much.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Okay, if you'd like to be the next Debater, please get to the chair in 3, 2, 1.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Hi, how you doing?

[Wes Moore]

Bayonne Bayon.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Wes.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Nice to meet you.

[Wes Moore]

Nice to meet you.

[Bayonne Bayon]

So we're talking about what shapes policy more effectively than my individual vote. I'd like to give you a list of things that I believe have a greater weight in terms of shaping policy. Big money in politics. Corporate super PACs, billionaires, donors, special interest groups, lobbyists. The Fox propaganda network that rattles off 24 hour nonsense all day long. Foreign interest groups like the Israelis and the Arab states, and the Citizens United ruling that flooded our entire system with more money than anyone can imagine. So when you talk about having greater weight in shaping policy, I believe that all of those policies are well shaped months and months and months ahead before any person in this room puts a ballot into a box. I'd love to hear your take.

[Wes Moore]

So, one, I could not agree with you more. I think Citizens United was maybe the worst decision that the Supreme Court does, and it needs to be overturned. I think that this role of big money and these, both the big corporations and also these billionaires, I think that, you know, their ability to now somehow think that their donation equates to voice is nonsense. And I think it has to be addressed. And I think that if you look at my story, the reason that I know that the individual vote does matter is because I look at my journey. Because this is the first elected office I ever ran for. I mean, there was nobody, there was no corporate interest who made me.

[Bayonne Bayon]

And that's very important.

[Wes Moore]

That's important. In fact, the political parties, the Democratic Party, put millions of dollars to try to stop me when they saw that our campaign was gaining momentum, despite the fact that when I first started running, I was polling at 1%. And I realized this, though. Y' all can put whatever money you can against what we're getting done. You could try to put whatever money you did against our movement, and they put millions of dollars against it. But you know who they couldn't stop?

[Bayonne Bayon]

Who?

[Wes Moore]

The people of Maryland.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

Because the people of Maryland were the ones who made me the governor. It was not a political party. It definitely was not a corporate interest, and it was definitely not a billionaire.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Did you work on small donor funding networks?

[Roger]

Absolutely.

[Bayonne Bayon]

And community grassroots organizations.

[Wes Moore]

And that was the thing that carried us. Right. I mean, the thing that actually carried us more was that when we had people who were running against us who did have all these billionaire interests or whatever like that, we ended up getting donations from literally every single county in our state. And while people were Averaging, you know, donations of thousands. Our average donation was like, know, 50, 60 bucks. And we ended up beating all of them. And you know what, all them special interests and all that kind of stuff, they are not going to have the final say. The people will have the final say. But what we had to do, we had to make sure we gave them something to vote for. Right? We had to make sure we gave them a reason to get out there. And so that's why, you know, when I said in our first days we're going to do things like raise the minimum wage, that we are going to do things like making sure we have paid family and medical leave.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Okay? But people are only going to believe you if they believe that your moral compass is pointing in the right direction.

[Wes Moore]

That's right.

[Bayonne Bayon]

How do they know is if you're not on the take from these big money interests, if you're saying, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, at the same time these billionaires are lining your pockets with gold, ain't nobody going to believe squat, right? So in order for the people to have faith in you, to trust you, you have to demonstrate. And when I say you, I'm talking all of the political candidates in the world, they all need to stipulate that, hey, I ain't taking money from nobody. I'm taking money from moms and pops and dads and small businesses. I'm not taking money from the big corporations. Then and only then will people trust you. Then and only then will the people be energized to step out of their houses and break the disengagement, get out the vote and put the ballot in the box.

[Wes Moore]

And you know what I was doing before I ran for governor?

[Bayonne Bayon]

What?

[Wes Moore]

I was running a poverty fighting nonprofit.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Great.

[Wes Moore]

And that's what I was doing.

[Bayonne Bayon]

It's grassroots organization. That helps.

[Wes Moore]

Right? That was my job.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Props to you.

[Wes Moore]

Right. But then what I did was I made sure that the things that we said we were going to get done, that we actually had a track record to show that we weren't going to get it done. And so when I talked about things like we were going to actually make sure we're giving the middle class a tax cut and actually asking wealthy Marylanders to pay more, which we've done in our time, that if we said it, we actually meant it. And so I do think that when it comes to making sure that people are empowered, there is two things that we have to be able to do. And I'll paraphrase something Dr. King said, you both have to protect the right to vote and you have to give people something to vote for. And so I think the people who are going to be successful, they've got to be successful at both those things. But you are absolutely right. The issue and the challenge of big money in politics, it is disgusting.

[Bayonne Bayon]

It is.

[Wes Moore]

And it's something that has to be addressed. Because we cannot have a situation where you have an interest that somehow believes that they, they can write a check and it's equated as a voice or a vote. That's not the way it works. The last thing should work is the vote.

[Bayonne Bayon]

The last thing we want to see is a lobbyist walking to the Governor's House office and saying, hey Mr. Governor, boom. Here's a piece of legislation that my think tank wrote for you guys. Take a look over this and if you like it, put it on the House floor for a vote. And then have the politician get his staffers to do a cursory look, maybe trim a couple of things around the edges. Sometimes politicians don't even read the legislation that is handed to them. They put it to the House floor for a vote and you press them on it. And I see reporters pressing these politicians about what's the contents of this bill. They don't even have a clue. They got no idea. But they're voting on it anyway. Why? Because that same lobbyist lined their pockets with gold.

[Wes Moore]

And I do think it's important for anybody who wants to go to these seats. You need to be very clear about with people, about who you are and why you're doing this. You know, when I look at the level of corruption and the self dealing that has taken place with some of these folks, that's exactly the kind of stuff that we wanted to address. It's the reason the first executive order I signed when I became the governor was an anti corruption executive order that the people know my values, they know where I am on issues, they know what I want to do, they know who I'm a fight for. They know when I say that we leave no one behind, they know that means exactly that. We leave no one behind. And anybody who, who wants to be supportive or anyone who's to back us, or anyone who says they don't want to back us because of it, that's good. But my moral compass is not moving and my values are not moving.

[Bayonne Bayon]

All that is great, that lip service is fantastic. But the only way people are going to believe you is if they know you're not taking money from the man, the minute you take that $50,000 check from Big pharma, then the people's confidence in you goes out the window.

[Wes Moore]

But that's why I think that people. We gotta stop there.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

We are out of time.

[Naseem]

Thanks.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Pleasure to meet you.

[Wes Moore]

Pleasure to meet you, too. By the way, I could not agree

[Ms. Lips]

with you more about this.

[Roger]

Big money.

[Wes Moore]

This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

into the world of Elle woods in high school.

[Wes Moore]

Set in 1995, this Gemini vegetarian knows

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

exactly who she is until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one law school was hard. High school was harder.

[Wes Moore]

From the world of Legally Blonde, watch

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video.

[Wes Moore]

Watch now. This summer, serve up the cookout classics

[Felicia]

craft mayo and dressing. Toss green salads with delicious ranch dressing or zesty Italian. Serve smooth, craveably creamy potato salads with mayo. We all know it's not a cookout without craft.

[Wes Moore]

My next surrounding claim is bad politics thrive when you don't participate.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, if you'd like to be the first debater for this claim, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Bayonne Bayon]

How you doing?

[Ms. Lips]

How you doing, Governor?

[Wes Moore]

I'm Wes. Nice to see you. How you doing?

[Ms. Lips]

It's a pleasure to see you, Ms. Lips.

[Wes Moore]

Ms. Lips, nice to see you.

[Ms. Lips]

Yes. I would like to talk about your beef against reparations. And I just want to clear some things. In 1968, a comedian named Dick Gregory won the election for presidency against Nixon. And voting, everyone voted. I know a lot of my people in Chicago voted. That's where I'm from, South side. And unfortunately, he did not win against Nixon. And it kind of damaged a lot of my family in the voting because they was very dedicated to voting. They knew their rights in voting, and they knew the problems that was going to come with voting with Nixon came with crack cocaine, heroin, and many other things that hurt our community. I'm sorry. One of those things. I lost so many people through that. And I think that our votes did not count. And I felt that it hurt generations to come, even till now. I lost my mother to drug addiction, and I lost my ex to drug addiction. So what is your take on making sure that our vote will count and that corruption will get solved or acknowledged?

[Wes Moore]

I. First, I'm very sorry. If there's one thing I know about the history of this country is the history of this country has been deeply uneven and deeply unfair for families like yours. Families like mine yes. And to your point, there's no one who needs to remind any of us that there are answers that this question that this country has still not answered. I also know this, and this is why policy does matter, is we come from a history and a legacy when oppression and segregation and institutionalized racism wasn't just condoned. It was the law of the land that we are. Literally a century ago when we had Klansmen openly walking through the streets, being welcomed into the White House.

[Ms. Lips]

Yes.

[Wes Moore]

When we had people being lynched and people who were just simply trying to get the right to vote, who had to stare down police dogs.

[Ms. Lips]

And this is why I think reparations will help. It will actually, because there's no justice to that. We cannot lock those Klansmen up. We cannot go back and change the past. But what we can do, we could open up a trust for those families that was taken away and slavery was. Slavery happened. It did happen. And there are studies. I know you said something about studies, but I have an Ancestry.com study. Why can't we use that? Why can't we use 21 in me for that study? That's a study. Our DNA is coded, is in every EMR record. There shouldn't be no problems. Why are we not getting our reparations?

[Wes Moore]

And my issue with, with a study is we have done a lot of studies. I need action and oftentimes feel what ends up happening when it comes to policy is when there's things that we don't want to tackle. What do we do? We do long term studies. If someone is telling me right now that my child is attending a school that is not preparing them for the world, I do not want to hear you tell me then that's why I'm going to do a 10 year commission on it. I do not want to hear you tell me if I say I cannot find housing that I can afford, I don't want to hear somebody tell me that's why I'm going to do a five year study.

[Ms. Lips]

So why should we vote if we can't get our reparations?

[Wes Moore]

Oh no. But I think, I think the thing that's actually going to help us to be able to get to the work of repair actually is voting because you know why we have not gotten to this work of repair long term and not just individual states as a nation is because we have elected officials who have not allowed us to do that. And so when I'm talking about the work of repair that, and that urgently needs to happen. For example, the stuff that we have done within our state, where we have made the largest investments in our HBCUs in the history of the state of Maryland. The fact that we have done things like the largest mass pardon in the history of the United States of America. And let's be clear about who that most directly impacted, because the war on drugs and the war on cannabis has been used as a cudgel against our community. And so let's be clear about who that most benefited.

[Ms. Lips]

I understand.

[Wes Moore]

So, so, but. But what. What I'm saying is, is that the people who are making that decision, particularly on the federal level, these are people who were elected. And so if they are either moving or not moving, how do we think that we're going to be able to get more momentum? The way we get more momentum and the way you address bad policies is you get people, different people in those seats who can better address those policies. The history of this country and the brutality that we have seen within it, it is real and it is something that has to be contended with. But my point is this, is that we will never be able to contend with that if we continue to disengage. Because do you know who does not want us to disengage? Our ancestors. Do you know who does not want us to disengage? The people who came before us. Do you know what they want us to do? They want us to use our voice. They want us never to lose the power that they fought for. They were the ones who earned that. They were the ones who stared down police dogs, not us.

[Ms. Lips]

Yes.

[Wes Moore]

And how disrespectful would it be to them to turn around and say, well, we understand how hard you had to sacrifice. We understand the fact that we had things like unfair appraisal values which led to the greatest wealth thefts that we've seen in our society's history. But you know what? Do you know how I'm going to respond to that? I'm just going to disengage. What are we saying to them if that's our response?

[Ms. Lips]

So why did you.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Sorry, I have to jump in there. You've been voted out.

[Ms. Lips]

All right, thank you.

[Wes Moore]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, if you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Wes Moore]

How you doing?

[Non-voter Activist]

Nice to see you.

[Wes Moore]

Good to see you. Thank you.

[Non-voter Activist]

All right, first. First, before I start anything, I need to just say one thing. Brother, you look really good. You're talking really amazingly, and you're doing amazing today. I want you to Know that what you're standing up for, what you've done so far for my people and also the people of Maryland is absolutely phenomenal. I don't want to disregard any of that work you put down. And the people that came before you would be very proud of what you've done so far.

[Naseem]

Thank you.

[Non-voter Activist]

I just want to highlight something that you said that sort of triggered me. You said a few things, but I think the biggest one is that our ancestors would be very disappointed if we chose not to vote. And I think that that's a little disingenuous because think about 1791, in August, the Haitian Revolution, what happened? They literally congregated and said, we are going to burn the houses and cut every slave master's head. Think about black Wall street, what happened during Black Wall Street. We literally united and said, hey, look at.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Look at us.

[Non-voter Activist]

We could build our own system. We can make our own thing. We don't have to be part of the wicked system that is America. Because what was America founded on? Rotten soil, on the heads of multi. Multiple millions of indigenous people. And I don't mean to have so much energy for you, brother.

[Wes Moore]

No, no, listen, I appreciate it, but

[Non-voter Activist]

I also think it's also disingenuous because we recognize, like, the correlation between Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, there's a section where they both realized that the system was too wicked for them to actually repair it. You know, unfortunately, my brother earlier came by and said, we have lobbyists. We have people. There's a 2014 study that was done by Benjamin Price and Martin Giles. They discovered that the average American actually has no direct say in public policy. What does that translate to? That literally means that every single one of these people's votes does not matter at all because the money does not flow to their pockets. But the pockets of the oligarch, that is something that we actually have to highlight. And because you are now the oligarch, you're the man in power, brother. You don't see me. And you represent also a small minority of the country. Because the people that actually need to be heard do not reside in Maryland. They do not reside in that northeast area where everything's blue, where my vote, even if I wrote red is going to be blue, you know, they reside in the south, they reside in Alabama, they reside in Selma. I think it's disingenuous for us not to highlight that point. And that's my. That's my speech. I'm sorry for having so much energy.

[Wes Moore]

No, listen. And not only. Not only Do. I do. I appreciate your energy. I honor it. Thank you. I honor it because I know it's real and I know it's justified. And I look at what's happening right now.

[Non-voter Activist]

What is happening right now, put towards to it.

[Wes Moore]

I look at the fact that when they passed that.

[Non-voter Activist]

I need. We need words.

[Wes Moore]

When Congress. No, no, I understand.

[Felicia]

When.

[Wes Moore]

When Congress passed that HR1, that big beautiful bill.

[Non-voter Activist]

That's beautiful.

[Pri West]

Okay.

[Wes Moore]

Which passed by one vote.

[Non-voter Activist]

Under whose presidency?

[Wes Moore]

Under. Under the Trump presidency.

[Non-voter Activist]

Okay, Okay. I just. I just. The reason why is because I'm airing this out this way is because I oftentimes see when it comes to politicians, not to cut you off. I'll let you finish your point. Don't forget it, please. I oftentimes see politicians sort of weaseling their ways outside of what actually what the proletariat wants to hear. You know, So I want to really make sure that you put words.

[Wes Moore]

So I would actually say that even, even that framing is saying that this should be put on a person. And actually, I don't think that's the case. I think that's making it too easy.

[Non-voter Activist]

Oh, what do you mean?

[Wes Moore]

Because when you look at what happened even with that own individual bill.

[Non-voter Activist]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

Do you know at the same time that we were giving billionaires tax cuts, that we cut people off of health care.

[Naseem]

Ooh.

[Wes Moore]

The same time that we were giving tax cuts to people who have private jets. They cut food for our children.

[Non-voter Activist]

But that's wonderful.

[Wes Moore]

But, but, but, but I do think this is an important point.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Right.

[Non-voter Activist]

Okay, I'm sorry, I'm gonna let you land on this.

[Wes Moore]

No, but this is an important point because this. That happened because an election result. I disagree. That happened. That happened. That happened because the people who were sitting in these seats.

[Skeptical Voter]

Seats.

[Wes Moore]

They decided.

[Non-voter Activist]

So was it an election vote that made it so that Obama was bombing and droning everybody in the Middle East? Was that an election point? Were we not supposed to vote for Obama, the first black president, brother. Because we knew he bombed Iran bomb everybody in the Middle East? Damn near.

[Wes Moore]

Well, first, I don't think we should be voting for anybody because of how they look or know their background. The question is, do they have our interests in mind?

[Non-voter Activist]

Did Obama have our interest in mind?

[Wes Moore]

Well, one, I think if you look at a lot of things that happened under the Obama administration, did George Bush

[Non-voter Activist]

have our interests in mind?

[Wes Moore]

Let's make sure these elections.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Let the governor finish.

[Naseem]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

No, no, no, no. But it's okay. But these elections and who sits in these seats does matter. Because whether we choose to engage or not engage, here's what's gonna happen. Every two years, these people in Congress are up for a vote. What's gonna happen every four years is you're gonna have governors and you're gonna have the President up for a vote. What's gonna happen every six years is you're gonna have senators up for a vote whether we engage or don't engage.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

These elections are going to happen.

[Non-voter Activist]

I agree.

[Wes Moore]

And they are going to make decisions on our behalf in our name with our money. And we want to make sure that the decisions that they are making are actually reflective of our values.

[Non-voter Activist]

And I want to highlight something right. So are you familiar with the scandal that happened in San Francisco?

[Wes Moore]

I'm not.

[Non-voter Activist]

Well, basically what happened was. And I have. I have their names here, so I don't mess it up.

[Naseem]

Okay?

[Non-voter Activist]

Forgive me. Tina Lam And Michael Clerks, first generation immigrants basically built their way up to saving $90,000 to purchase a cul de sac in a rich neighborhood. It was called the Presido Terrorists. And essentially what we found out because of that situation is that the residents of Presido Terrace basically reached out to the US Senator, and the US Senator went to the board and basically was like, hey, you guys invested $90,000 to buy this land legally. They had the contracts at the paperwork. And what happened, the supervisor and the board got. They literally heard the U.S. senator and they basically were like, hey, you cannot have this property anymore. You cannot be here anymore. And they forced them, they refunded them the $9,000 that they use to basically they brick and mortar themselves to get essentially. And so my point is, I don't necessarily think it's a matter of us really looking to get people in power when we know that their pockets are going to always be lined up. You serve your own interest and your family's interest before mine, unfortunately. And I hate to say, like, that sounds a little. That sounds a little racket radical. And I don't mean to come at your character if that's not your character, but that's what it is. If you can't eat anymore, can you serve?

[Wes Moore]

It's not my character.

[Non-voter Activist]

I understand.

[Wes Moore]

But if you can't, and I'll just say this. Let me just share with you about my character and how I view that.

[Non-voter Activist]

Okay.

[Wes Moore]

Do you know the first thing that I did when we came on board was that not only did I sign an anti corruption executive order, the first one, first executive order I ever signed. Also what I did for everything, all of my Family's assets, everything that we have. I also then put into a blind trust because I never wanted anyone in the state of Maryland to ever think that I was doing anything that was benefiting me. And not only did I do that, I signed legislation that says if anyone ever wants to be governor of Maryland from here on out, they have to do the same thing. Because we need to make sure there's transparency, and we need to make sure that people know that the decisions that are being made by people in my seat from here on out, that no one ever questions the decisions are being made. And you know why, too, especially right now, when we have a Congress that is trading stocks despite having insider information, when we have a president of the United States who in the first quarter of this year alone has now done over 20. Over 3700 stock trades, that averages out to about 600 stock trades a single day. I don't. Are you the president or are you a day trader? Like, when we are watching that, when we are watching a president who has made billions of dollars, when we are watching someone who is literally starting wars.

[Non-voter Activist]

I don't support Trump at all, brother.

[Wes Moore]

But my point is this, is that, is that these. Our ability, our ability to be able to deal with that, our ability to be able to address that. When I look in the state of Maryland, had, had that election not happen, do you think that we would have legislation in Maryland that says for every governor from here on out, they need to put their assets in a blind trust had we not. Had, had elections not matter in the state of Maryland, would we have a situation where now in Maryland, I have banned prediction trading for anyone who works for the state of Maryland, because, no, you cannot, you cannot do prediction market trading when you're dealing with insider information. And I just feel like for every, for the incidents you mentioned, which, and again, I did not know about this incident, but my, but my question back

[Non-voter Activist]

to you is San Francisco, that's a, that's a majority Democratic state, and that's real. And it's, and it's.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

I'm sorry, we gotta pause there.

[Ms. Lips]

Oh, bro.

[Wes Moore]

But, but, and I guess, and I guess. And I know, I know the rules,

[Non-voter Activist]

because I got some initiatives I'm trying

[Wes Moore]

to work on, and I would love

[Non-voter Activist]

to talk about a big deal, brother.

[Wes Moore]

Fred Hampton's a very big. I, I, I think Fred Hampton is a very.

[Non-voter Activist]

I really appreciate the fact that you started off by saying that you were making things. Oh, my goodness, man.

[Wes Moore]

Yo, I will, I will. And listen and listen. And I'll say and I'll say one thing too, and I know this is probably against the rules, but my but my ask to you back is for everything you mentioned.

[Roger]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Would it be better if we chose to disengage? Is that how we change it?

[Non-voter Activist]

Well, Fred Hampton disengaged brother. So did Malcolm X. Arguably he didn't because he had electoral promotions which he

[Wes Moore]

100% and I would talk to you about that. And I would talk to you about that. And I would talk to you about that. And I would talk to you about that.

[Skeptical Voter]

Cuz.

[Wes Moore]

Cuz I would actually push you on that. On Fred Hampton though.

[Skeptical Voter]

But we should talk.

[Wes Moore]

We should talk. We should talk. Yes sir. Yes sir. My if we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions and sleep duration. Then every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from okay to very high. Know your sleep score With Apple Watch iPhone 11 or later required I get

[Felicia]

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[Wes Moore]

more headache days a month, each lasting

[Felicia]

four hours or more.

[Wes Moore]

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[Felicia]

Ask your doctor, visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox to learn more.

[Wes Moore]

Final Surrounding Claim is not Voting doesn't protest corruption, it protects it.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, if you'd like to debate this claim, please get to the center in three, two, one.

[Roger]

How you doing?

[Wes Moore]

How you doing Wes? Nice to meet you sir.

[Roger]

If if that's the case. If not voting leads to the corruption. How do you explain the corruption despite so much voting?

[Wes Moore]

Well, I think if you do not vote and you do not get the right people in place, then you don't have the checks on the corruption. Because I think elections actually do matter. I mean, I look at it in the case of our own state, right, where we had people, I had predecessors who were literally deciding transportation lines and then buying real estate near the transportation lines, that we have a president right now who is spending his time literally investing, you know, investing in stocks and lifting companies up and then them getting DOD contracts like what we just saw with Dell. And so the thing is, elections do matter because the people who are sitting in the seats can actually control it. You know what happened, if you look at what happened in Maryland, I've actually taken on these utility companies and we have capped compensation for these utility executives. Elections matter when we turn Maryland from a red state to a blue state and we have now the chief executive who says we're not going to tolerate that. That in Maryland, we. Now if you're looking at how supermarkets and these large scale chains are actually doing price manipulation and hosing people based on the data they have on their cell phones and adjusting prices because they're actually using your data against it. Well, Maryland became the first state in the country that is ban that. Now elections have consequences for sure.

[Roger]

There's no shortage of corruption. But earlier you mentioned Dr. King. What I didn't hear you mention is economic withdrawal. Are you familiar with his. In your opinion, what do you think got Martin Luther King killed ultimately?

[Wes Moore]

Well, I mean, I can't speak to what got Dr. King killed.

[Roger]

Well, you're familiar with his last speech in 1968.

[Wes Moore]

I 100% am. And I also know that economic withdrawal and economic financing, it actually does matter in terms of the decisions that we're making. That yes, we have to make sure that we are putting the right elected officials in place, but we also have to make sure we understand the value of our dollar. That when, for example, when we are watching the Voting Rights act fall, when we're watching representation and black representation in southern states that is being pulled and people being disenfranchised right before our eyes. My question is this. Why is everyone, anyone having a conference in Louisiana? Why is anyone deciding to have their business in Florida? Why is anyone allowing that to take place in these individual states?

[Roger]

And you would agree that if they were to just explore that, that'd be more powerful than voting.

[Wes Moore]

I don't Think it'll be more powerful. I think these things all are tools, but I think still it fundamentally comes back to the idea of voting. And you know, why, why would we have a conversation about economic disenfranchisement and why we have a conversation about economic uplift? The reason is because you have leaders in states right now who are choosing to disenfranchise people. Those people are put there by voters. That's where voting rights matters. Again, if people did not think voting rights did matter, why are they so hell bent on trying to take it away from us? Political theater, I think it's bigger than political theater. I think it's political, I think, I think it's true. Societal voice. They do not want us to have societal voice. And so I think economic pressure does matter, but I think economic pressure is also going to matter when we can actually use our political power to get people in these.

[Roger]

So when did it matter to where it counted, to where people felt like, wow, my vote's working for me?

[Wes Moore]

I think to where the 20 of

[Roger]

us in this room wouldn't even be here because we've been voting for years. Our parents have been voting grandparents and we feel like, wow, this works. We get what we're looking for represented adequately. Clearly, it's not working. We've been voting and voting and voting. We're both black men here. I'm from Virginia, Maryland, not too far north. What are we getting?

[Wes Moore]

Do we think that the election in Maryland in 2022 didn't matter?

[Roger]

I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all. I'm not saying there's no utility to your vote whatsoever. It's certainly not. There's certainly other avenues more powerful like economic withdrawal like I talked about.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. So, but, but what I'm saying is, is that before 2022, we had a situation where we were watching violent crime absolutely terrorize our state. You know, you're from the DMV and voting does.

[Roger]

What about that?

[Wes Moore]

Well, let me tell you what voting does. For example, in 2022, Baltimore City was averaging about a homicide a day. That for the seven years before I became the governor, we saw how the homicide rate in the state of Maryland nearly doubled. The non fatal shooting rate did double. And you know, we got from our leaders before that, thoughts and prayers. Do you know what we got from that? Some beautiful eulogies. While we've continued to allow bloodshed take place in our neighborhoods. And so in 2022 when we came on board, you know what we did? We, we actually started working with the mayor. We actually started working with community violence intervention groups. We made record funding to them. We actually started working with local law enforcement, make sure that they can move with appropriate intensity and absolute integrity and full accountability. We actually worked together collectively to be able to address the problem. Do you know what's happened since 2022? The violent crime rate in the state of Maryland is down nearly 50%. It is the fastest drop anywhere in the United States of America. In Baltimore City, the last time the homicide rate was this slow. I was not born yet. You cannot tell me.

[Roger]

And you attribute that solely to the 2022 election?

[Wes Moore]

Elections matter because what was happening before. What was happening before was bloodshed. What was happening before was still plenty of bloodshed.

[Roger]

Why I get Maryland.

[Wes Moore]

We have more. Of course we have more across the country.

[Roger]

Voting does not stop violence.

[Wes Moore]

No, but I understand.

[Skeptical Voter]

But.

[Wes Moore]

But leadership does. Leadership does. And that's why these elections do matter. Who is making the decisions, and are they making the decision?

[Roger]

When you say leadership, you're referring to politicians.

[Wes Moore]

No need to be.

[Roger]

Who rely on votes. Who essentially would say anything to get your vote.

[Wes Moore]

I'm talking about anybody who's willing to work with everybody. Do you know why we've had such a drastic drop in violent crime within the state of Maryland? It wasn't because of just politicians. It was because we chose to work with everybody. It's because we chose to work with community groups. It's because we chose to actually work with our local elected officials. Is because we chose to work with. With our local law enforcement. It's because we chose to work with the elders and the communities and the businesses. It's because we chosen to do things like the largest mass pardon.

[Roger]

So what I hear. What I hear in there, a lot of that.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Stop there. You've been voted out by the majority.

[Naseem]

Thank you.

[Roger]

Hey, great talking to you. Really good to meet you.

[Wes Moore]

Appreciate you.

[Roger]

Thank you.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, if you'd like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in 3, 2, 1.

[Wes Moore]

So scary. Nice to meet you, Roger. Nice to meet you.

[Felicia]

Okay, so you say that not voting, it doesn't protect it, but it protects corruption. It protects corruption. I think voting is corruption. You go to the ballots and you see names, and all you see is Democrat, Republican, Democrat, Republican. There's nothing else you can vote for. You're either red or blue. And it feels like if my policies don't match with one or the other, my vote's not going to count. It doesn't matter. And I don't understand how I can be a part of a system that's corrupt.

[Wes Moore]

Listen, I, and I've been very much on the record on this where, you know, if you look at the fastest growing political party in this country, you know what it is? Independence.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

It's people who are saying, I don't rock with the Democrats, I don't rock with the Republicans. And I'm being very honest. I think anybody who just swallows a party ideology is not thinking hard enough because I don't think there's a party that has the market cornered on good ideas or a market cornered on bad ideas. I think about the policies that have truly harmed families like mine. And the truth is, for many members of my family, they could not tell you if it was a Democratic author or Republican author. They could just tell you it was a bad policy. So I do think that there has to be a better way and a better system that we have constructed to be able to actually make sure independent voice is seen and not just in November. Because the problem is, is that less than 10% of these congressional seats are even competitive. And if you look at some of the races that actually work, they're actually races like mayor's races, which are nonpartisan races where people aren't running as a Democrat or Republican. Now, that being said, I still think when people are having these national elections or these statewide elections, it does matter who sits inside these seats and not because they're a Democrat or Republican. I, I don't give a damn about, frankly, the political party, the political infrastructure, because again, the Democratic Party didn't make me. And so I don't find some reason or some blinding ideas saying, like, everything that the Democrats do is right. I don't believe that. But what I do know is this, is that the people who sit in these seats, it matters because it's going to impact my life, it's going to impact my family, it's going to impact my community. And I want to make sure that those people, people, no matter their political party, I want to make sure those people, at the end of the day, when those doors are closed, that they see me and they're making decisions based on what is right for me and my family and not what is right for them and their family.

[Felicia]

But clearly enough people are voting for these other politicians that they do agree. Like, it's 50, 50 almost, it seems like, or like it tips the scale a little bit. And that's why we keep going back and forth from, like, we revoke a policy, we make a new policy, like, every year. It's something different. And I feel like, how are we going to get to that position then where we're actually voting for policies versus people? Because I don't want to vote for people anymore. I want to actually make a change. And I feel like that's what protests do. Versus when I'm on a ballot of paper and I'm on someone's desk as a number versus I'm on the streets and I'm a real number making a

[Wes Moore]

real change and real talk. That's exactly what I want, too. I don't want someone to vote for me because I have a Democrat next to my name. I want someone to vote for me because they feel like my values matches theirs and because I see their family and I want to work on behalf of their family. I think about one of the people when I announced I was running for reelection, the very, very first visit that I made when I was governor was actually out to a place called Lonaconing, which is out in western Maryland, and they were having a water crisis, so they had a boil water advisory. So I'm on the phone with their mayor and we're talking and I said, you know, Mr. Mayor, I'm on my way. When I first met him, guy named Mayor Cockburn, who's become a good friend, he shook my hand and he said, do me a favor, he said, turn 300. So I turned 360 degrees. And he looked at me and he said, the only guarantee I can give you is you ain't see a Democrat within five miles of anywhere. You just looked. But he said, but you know what? You're the first governor that's been here since 1996. And do you know when I first announced that I was running for reelection, do you know, one of the first people that announced that he was going to support me for my reelection was lifelong Republican mayor, Mayor Coburn of the town of Lonaconing. I'm not asking people to see me because I'm a Democrat. I'm asking people to see me because I'm going to fight for you. And as long as you're a Marylander, you're good with me. And that's all I need to know.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, we gotta stop there. You've been voted out.

[Ms. Lips]

Feels sweet.

[Pri West]

Thank you so much.

[Wes Moore]

I appreciate you.

[Pri West]

Thank you so much.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, if you'd like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Skeptical Voter]

How you doing?

[Wes Moore]

What's up, man?

[Skeptical Voter]

Sergio.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Wes.

[Skeptical Voter]

Nice to meet you.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Sergio.

[Wes Moore]

Nice to meet you.

[Skeptical Voter]

Thank you. You have been going, and I don't mean this in offensive way, but you've been going on and on about your accomplishments in Maryland, about how you've re reduced the crime rate by 50%, about how you've gone and done all of these accomplishments for Maryland. But the problem is there are 49 other states in the U.S. sorry, I'm out of breath from running here.

[Wes Moore]

That's all good. You sprinted hard. That was pretty good, man. You sprinted hard.

[Skeptical Voter]

That was good.

[Wes Moore]

Take your time.

[Skeptical Voter]

You're good, man.

[Wes Moore]

Ok.

[Skeptical Voter]

In Texas right now there's water wars going on because there's droughts. In Utah, famously, there's being a data center being built against everybody's wishes in Salt Lake City. In California. Oh my God, don't get me started. In California there's a growing homelessness problem that hasn't been addressed in decades. In fact, it's one of the well known things about here is that there's a lot of homeless program corruption, people taking advantage of the system constantly. So sure, if I were in Maryland, I would probably voted for you. But the problem is that because we live in a system where, or we live in different states where there's so much corruption, it doesn't give me an incentive to vote. Plus, I grew up in a family where we would always choose the, the lesser of two evils. It's been that way since my dad was young, since my mom was young, since my uncles were young. But the problem with choosing the lesser of two evils every single time is that the other person that you vote for is still evil. And if you do that every single election, the level of evil keeps going up and up. And it's what we see in this administration, it's what you've seen in the previous administration, the administration before that. So why should I be incentivized to vote if I know for a fact that nobody is going to live up to, to the expectations that they're going to change when nothing has.

[Wes Moore]

No, listen, I, I honestly, I share a lot of the frustration because you're right. Because honestly that has been the history for a lot of us.

[Skeptical Voter]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

That we're asked to choose between who's going to hurt us less. So, so I'm, so, I'm, I, I'm, I'm completely with you on that. It's part of the reason I chose to run in the first place.

[Skeptical Voter]

Okay.

[Wes Moore]

Where again, I don't come from this background.

[Skeptical Voter]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

I don't need this and I did not rely on any of these interests or whatever. Like that, to be able to do it. I did it because I was like, if we can actually have an opportunity to do it different, then let's do it. And I feel like we've held true to our word to the people of our state. And so I can't speak to other states because I represent my people and I represent the state of Maryland. And I'm always going to represent all my people in the best way that I know how, transparently I know how. The thing that I. That I am even more certain of now is this. The people who sit in these seats, it's going to matter, okay? Because every single year, you're going to have budgets that are either going to reflect you or not. Every year, laws be passed that are either going to help you or not. And so if we just disengage in that process, not only are we not helping ourselves, we're not helping our families, we're not helping our neighbors. Bad things will happen, and then we cannot just scratch our heads and wonder why.

[Skeptical Voter]

Bad things have been happening since the beginning, though. Bad things have been happening since before we were even able. Before even I was allowed to vote. You know, again, you're the exception. But in something as big as, like, our federal government, in something as big as the. As Congress or the Supreme Court, nothing has changed.

[Wes Moore]

Can I ask this one question, though?

[Skeptical Voter]

Yes.

[Wes Moore]

After what has happened over the past year and a half, do you think that Whoever won in 2024, that it didn't matter?

[Skeptical Voter]

Could you repeat the question, please?

[Wes Moore]

After everything we have seen in the past year and a half, when we've watched ICE go from an agency that had $10 billion of funding to now being an agency that's $85 billion in funding, that the fact that ICE right now is bigger than the FBI, ICE is bigger than the ATF, ICE is bigger than the DEA, ICE has a budget bigger than the state of Maryland. Right now, right? After watching a president of the United States make billions of dollars for himself, right, while robbing billions of dollars away from us and our families. When it comes to supports, do you think that the 2024 election and the results of it did not matter?

[Skeptical Voter]

I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't believe so. No, I don't believe so.

[Wes Moore]

I disagree. I think this has been horrific.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Yeah, we gotta stop there. You've been voted out.

[Skeptical Voter]

Okay. Thank you.

[Wes Moore]

Thanks, man. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Good job you got in there. If you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Naseem]

I'm Wes.

[Wes Moore]

Wes, nice to meet you. It's a pleasure. Hi, Felicia. So nice to meet you.

[Felicia]

Thank you.

[Wes Moore]

Thank you.

[Felicia]

Okay, so, Wes, my concern is more so with the identity of politics, with voting. A lot of people, and based off my own experience, have utilized voting, utilized politics as their identity. And this goes into the corruption aspect. Right. I mean, look what just happened with. I don't know if this is appropriate to share, but with Charlie Kirk. Right. And it's unfortunate. It's really sad. I didn't even vote. I haven't voted since Obama. But this is continuing within the people making voting their identity and the influence within it. Within how it's not just influencing people, People within voting, but it's influencing people in the celebrity world and just the influencer world. Me being an influencer and an artist, you know, I'm afraid to share just why I might be interested in voting for this person or that person because I may be targeted just because I want to place a vote for a certain politician. So what are your thoughts on that?

[Wes Moore]

I agree with you on the idea that unfortunately for a lot of people, politics has become an identity. Right. Like, I think about how. How I identify. Like, I'm a, you know, I'm the. The. The. The son of Joy and William. I'm the husband of Dawn. I'm the father of Mia and James. I'm a child of God. Like, I think about things that I identify myself as, and at some point I'll get to, oh, yeah, and I'm a Democrat. I think there's a lot of people who. They have the whole thing twisted.

[Felicia]

Yes.

[Wes Moore]

They look at themselves as a political party or a political identification almost before anything else. I do think there is a poison in that, where it almost has become very tribal.

[Felicia]

Yes.

[Wes Moore]

But I don't think that the idea of identifying yourself with voting is the problem. I think identifying yourself with the tribal party line is the problem. Voting is actually the way I think you help to address it.

[Felicia]

I disagree. And I disagree because it's like, okay, I'm putting in a vote, but that doesn't necessarily matter. It's going into a ballot. Yes. And it might go towards the person that I actually want, but again, it doesn't, you know, change the fact that there's people out there still, you know, initially saying that, oh, you voted for this person, I'm going to target you. I've had friends, I've had myself. I grew up in Wyoming for a little bit, and literally, I was the only Person in my class, in my school pretty much that wanted to vote for Obama, everybody else wanted to vote for Trump. And if I mention that, it didn't become like a targeted at me and just who I was, but it went into the religious aspect of our faith as well, too. And it's unfortunate. Yes. But it's like, how can you address that? How can you change that by, you know, within the vote, by addressing the people all around and telling people, hey, yes, I'm a Democrat. I voted for this person. I'm doing this to make an impact and change, but this is not my identity. Right.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. Well, I'd say, you know, the part of the beauty of voting is that voting is a. Is a private endeavor. Right. You know, you going to a ballot box, you don't have to say who you vote. Like, when people get. When they give you that sticker after you vote, it doesn't say, I voted for. It just says, I voted well.

[Felicia]

And I agree.

[Wes Moore]

I think there's a beauty in the privacy of it, in the way that voting, in the way that voting works, that we can have free and fair and private elections, that people can choose their voice. But I do think that while this allegiance to a political ideology is dangerous, I think the commitment to the people is what I think is important. And I think the commitment to the people does matter in terms of who's actually sitting in these seats. Because if we are putting people in these seats, and again, I don't care about the political affiliation, I could care if a person goes out and votes for whoever, I could care less. But I'm like, but go make your voice heard.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Right?

[Felicia]

And we got to stop there.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

You've been voted out. We're going to try and get one more in.

[Wes Moore]

No, it was nice to meet you.

[Roger]

You are great.

[Wes Moore]

It's so nice to meet you. Thank you so much.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, we got a little bit time left on the clock. If you want to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one.

[Pri West]

Let's go. Okay.

[Wes Moore]

How you doing?

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

How you doing? I've been running up the stairs like crazy.

[Ms. Lips]

What's your name?

[Wes Moore]

I'm C. C. C. I'm Wes.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Nice to meet you, Wes.

[Wes Moore]

Nice to meet you, Wes. Nice to meet you.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Yeah, so I'm a non voter. I know that's a pretty bold statement, but for me, it just means I participate a little bit differently.

[Wes Moore]

Okay.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

So to give you a little background, I'm a former foster kid. Okay. And at 18, I was given a bag and told you're an adult now. Figure it out. Go do it on your own. I don't have family. So what I did is I was actually a part of a organization called the California Youth Connection and the Riverside chapter. And we passed a bill called AB12 that allowed former foster kids to get financial aid after the age of 18. And because of that, I was one of the first eight kids to be approved for that. And because of that, I was able to get my first business. I was able to save up for my house. I was able to be the person that I am here today. And not only that, it still continues to this day. What I was a part of is still helping former foster kids put food on their table, get housing, get schools. And it's a beautiful thing to where. What I do now is I focus local on local impact. I'm really big on former foster youth and foster care. So I work with not only foster. Former foster youth, but current foster youth. So my thing is, it's not Democrat, it's not Republican, it is humanitarian, and I choose to put my energy in towards local impact.

[Wes Moore]

So, first of all, yes. And I have so much respect for you and your journey. We've actually done a lot of work and passed legislation since I've been governor of Maryland about aging out and for kids in the foster care system. And first, let me just say I admire you and your strength more than you know, because your journey. No one will ever fully appreciate the challenge of your journey. And the fact that you're here right now and the fact that we're having this conversation says so much about who you are and so, so much about your metal. So, so respect.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Thank you. But it's not about me. It's about us.

[Wes Moore]

No, that's right. It's about all of us right now. The thing that. So what we saying? It was AB12. AB12.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Was that policy?

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

No. Is a bill passing the state of California right now. So right now it's small. When I was 18, it got passed. I'm 33 now. So it works as like a advocate or idea. So it can possibly be federal right now.

[Naseem]

Who.

[Wes Moore]

Who passed that bill?

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

It was the state of California.

[Wes Moore]

They say so it was legislators.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Legislators. But we advocated for it. And if not, there are still programs right now that help advocate for foster youth. That's just one of many.

[Wes Moore]

Had they not passed it, what would have been your story?

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

I would have been different. I mean, kids at age 18 for women, they get passed out to pimps. For men, they have to do ungodly things. It's, I don't have family. So at this point, it would have been going out to the street and who knows?

[Wes Moore]

So they changed the policy. Of course they changed a policy that helped to save your life. Yes, policy. That's my only point. The fact that we do need advocacy, we do need humanitarian work. We do need you and everybody else doing what they're doing on the ground to make people's lives better. But here's the thing. If we do not fix the systems that are in place, that are intentionally hurting people and that are keeping people in places of pain, then all the humanitarian work that we are doing individually, we will just simply find ourselves cleaning up the debris that comes from broken policies. That's what I was doing before I ran for governor is I was running a poverty fighting organization. But I found myself thinking to myself, like, we are doing so much to focus on food and education and housing. But if I continue having to battle bad policies, then I'm never going to be able to save as many people as I hope to save. We've got to end this practice of bad policies. AB12 helped to save you. That was policy. And so we need to do all the other work. We gotta do the advocacy, we gotta do the humanitarian work. But at the same time, we need better policies that continue to hurt people and then are asking us to turn around and be superheroes when we shouldn't have to be superheroes. Because you shouldn't have had to have dealt with the heartache and the pain that you had to deal with. I'm sorry that there were not better policies in place to support you.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

I'm not. Because now we get to learn, now I get to raise my voice and I get to understand it.

[Wes Moore]

But I'm thinking that's the thing, policies now that's the thing. I have to deal with that. And that's, that's why I'm saying I don't think it's a either or. I don't think it's a, you know, it's voting or do humanitarian work. I don't think it's voting or make sure we're doing advocacy.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

But I think it's happening just in the White House, though. It happens with a group of people saying, enough, I want change.

[Wes Moore]

And in fact happen locally, here, today, right now, 100%. And in fact, I would argue you, if you look at who votes in presidential elections, you know, in the last presidential election, about 70% of the population voted. Do you know what the number was in the midterm election, what, around 46. And I think this is crazy for people because my point is this. Y' all think that it's just the presidential election that matters. Do you know who actually has the most direct impact on all of your lives? It's, are you voting for your city council people? Are you voting for your state legislators who passed AB12? Are you voting for your mayor? Are you voting for your governor? Because so much of our lives, our education system, public safety, housing, these are things that the federal government, the president of the United States, they're not in charge of that. It's actually local folks. And so what I want people to do, I want people to be the activists. I want people to be the humanitarians. I want people to be the social service providers. I want all that. And I want you to make sure we get better people who are sitting in these seats, we. So they can stop passing policies that are hurting families like yours and mine.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right, we gotta stop there. We are out of time, so please

[Non-voter Activist]

return to your seat.

[Wes Moore]

I so respect your story, man.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

I'm for real.

[Wes Moore]

I really do. Real talk. When you're seven eleven's hottest fire chicken sandwich. People think you're intense. Well, yeah, I'm hot, so, yeah.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Intense.

[Wes Moore]

I want to see if you can handle the heat. Then try me with pickles or spicy mayo and jalapenos. Oh, and it's all just $4.99.

[Bayonne Bayon]

That's a deal.

[Wes Moore]

Almost as hot as I am.

[Pri West]

Almost.

[Bayonne Bayon]

Sweets?

[Wes Moore]

No, spicy. See for yourself. $4.99 and only at 7:11. Follow up through 8, 25, 26 participating stores only while supplies last visit the store for full terms. Did you know Sam's Club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

It's a club.

[Wes Moore]

Of course, Jason. It's in the name. Sam's Club. Oh, yeah. Come join us. Sam's Club.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

All right. Great job. To all of the folks who came to the center. Great job. Governor Moore.

[Non-voter Activist]

Thank you so much, man.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

We are to the last portion of the video. We're going to ask you to look around the circle and select somebody who you either want to keep the conversation going with somebody you haven't spoken to, somebody who you want to dig further into your disagreements with, and you will debate their claim for 10 minutes.

[Wes Moore]

This is hard, man. This is hard. This is really. You didn't get picked yet. I know. Actually, pre. I want to keep our conversation going because there are a couple points that I wanted to be able to make, but I want to keep this conversation going.

[Pri West]

Okay. So my surrounding claim is that I feel that I need to sleep peacefully at night. And today, within the political framework, it's just not working for me or the people I know. So I feel like when I'm voting, I'm voting for the wrong thing and I can't be part of it. So how would you tell me to

[Wes Moore]

make a claim, Man?

[Pri West]

There you go.

[Wes Moore]

I understand that because I think there's a lot of things going on in our world right now that I know I'm losing sleep over too. I think we are watching a. A pain that is being inflicted upon people that's. It's not even piercing anymore. It's like chronic.

[Pri West]

So let's go into detail. Would you mind going to detail what exactly is at the forefront of your mind when you're answering my question?

[Wes Moore]

I mean, I. I still think it's ridiculous that we have a society that allows children to grow up in poverty the way this society does.

[Pri West]

And that's absolutely atrocious and awful. So do you.

[Wes Moore]

Because also because it's. It's like we're allowing the fate of our children to be decided before they even have a say. We're allowing kids. We're allowing kids to come up in conditions that are teaching them to frankly hate the society in which they grow up in because they do not think that society sees them at all. And one of the things that I know that I want to focus on and the reason why I got into politics in the first place is if we cannot address the issue of child poverty, if we cannot address the issue of providing our children a better start, then each and every one of us a derelict. And, you know, and I. And I think about, you know, what you mentioned about the thing that helps us to lose sleep, and I think it kind of goes back to me. What I think about too is why do we do this and why do I still engage and why don't I just give up on it? I think part of it for me is because I know the shoulders that I stand on and I know the eyeballs that are on us right now and who are telling us, you cannot give up because you all are the ones who are going to help determine what tomorrow is going to look like. And if we are looking them in the eyes and saying that there's nothing that we can do anymore, I cannot stress enough the level of disrespect that we are sending to those who were willing to fight on our behalf. And frankly, for the ones who are going to come after us, our kids, who need us to be their champion right now.

[Pri West]

Okay, so as a child growing up, I went through a lot of tragedy growing up, and I was privileged to have a very large network around me of people who, you know, like, socially, we had family friends. We had a large family. People were talking to each other. Today in the United States, people are not talking to each other. You can't have a conversation. A child can't ask you a question and get what they need to make their own decision. That's how a child. Child evolves. That's how they learn to make their own decisions. Again, we are America. We are the leader of the free world. Yet it seems like everybody is just. When it comes to voting, we're voting for one side or the other to try and insert more control over us. How can you sleep at night properly knowing that you're associated with either one of those parties doing that? Now, somebody mentioned about lobbying. I have two parents on Medicaid. I lost them 20 years ago when they got into opioids. I can't wear them off them. So when I go into. And I do go into rabbit holes, and I do try to find out, like, how can this be America? You know, because I wasn't born here. And I think even the just the two words, common sense, it makes people go crazy. But it's something that should be taught in school. So if you care about the children, if we care about humanity, we care about each other, we should start caring about ourselves first. Correct. But if that basic principle isn't taught in school, how is anyone doing their job correctly?

[Wes Moore]

And actually, I think part of it as you. As you answer to it, is we've got to be a society that gets to know each other again, you know, And I'm sorry to hear about your family and your childhood.

[Pri West]

Yeah, I've come over it and they've come over it, and we have to just concentrate on what we can do going forward. Right.

[Wes Moore]

Well, I would say. I mean, I lost. I lost my dad when I was three because he didn't get the health care he needed. And I don't know if I'm ever going to get over it.

[Pri West]

I'm sorry.

[Wes Moore]

And so I feel for you.

[Pri West]

I'm sorry.

[Wes Moore]

No, no. And, and, and I'll say this, though, when I talk about how elections have consequences. You know, one of the first things that we did when I became the governor of Maryland is we made Maryland the first state in the country that now has a Service year option for all of our high school graduates, where every high school graduate now has a chance to have a year of service paid to the state of Maryland. And they can do whatever they want to do. They can work serving veterans, they can work serving young people, they can work on the environment, they can work with older adults. I tell them, like, the only thing we ask is, tell us what makes your heart beat a little bit faster and we're going to give you a way to go solve that problem. We did it because it's become a great workforce development tool. We did it because it's helped to address the fact that we had so many, so many kids between the ages of 18 and 25 who are neither in school nor employed. And it's helped to address that. But you know what it also did was I believe deeply that particularly in this time of this political divisiveness and political vitriol, that service will save us. We've got to get to know each other again. And I agree with you that if we can be a society that's actually able to work on big things together, that's not disengaging, but is actually engaging and that's working together on things, I think that's going to give our society the best chance of actually making our way through this.

[Pri West]

Okay, so you're obviously in the seat that you're in and we are all who we are and we see what we see. We see corruption, we see fraud, we see a lot of against law and order and for law and order and a lot of ICE this and ICE that. And let me just be very honest, when it comes to immigration, it's a touchy topic for me because I voluntarily left England and then when I came here. I love living here, but I think it's cruel. I. I really, I can't vote because I think that the way the voting system or the way that it's just built is cruel and controlling and coercive towards people, Normal, everyday people who should be so proud to be American. It's like, but the immigration system, I don't know if anyone knows what's happening in the uk, but it's heartbreaking. So as an immigrant who came through the correct channels and seeing what's happened there, you can't let your kids out of your sight nowadays. Do you know? And how did it get so bad? So we do have a problem, a global problem. And law and order is needed to a certain extent, but on one side it's so loose and the other side it's so stringent, but we have to come back to the middle. So how do we do that without going the extra mile to get there? So right now, the choices on the table don't really give us that option. It's either going further that way or the other way. So why should we?

[Wes Moore]

But I think that our ability to engage and our ability to make sure that we have people who actually reflect those values, I think that actually is going to help to be the bomb that we need to actually be able to heal. Because I think that if we somehow think that it will get better just because it won't. It will not get better because we close our eyes and hope it does. We know what I want. When I have people who are making decisions about whether or not they're going to support people on Medicaid or not, when I know there are people who are making decisions about whether or not our children are going to get food, when I know there are people who are making decisions, are we going to actually heal historic and societal wounds that are. That this country has perpetrated upon so many people in this country? I want to make sure that when those decisions are being made that there are people who actually have a heart for the people who are then making those decisions. Because it's not going to get better if I then choose to say I'm not going to engage or get involved. The only way it's going to get better is if we all choose to fundamentally lean in and say we are not going to allow our society to be worse for. For future generations than it was for the one that we inherited.

[Pri West]

So we can all go by through our own individual experiences. Would you say that's correct?

[Wes Moore]

Absolutely, I think we all do.

[Pri West]

Yeah. You're an anonymous. You're one of your kind, I'll have to say, because I've met a few politicians and they'll say one thing to your face and then you watch them do their job and they just don't do anything. And that's what gets up my skin, you know, it really like I've had people literally, oh, homelessness in la, for example. I was at a fundraiser and I met somebody who was nominated a couple of years ago and they were like, yep, that's forefront of what it is. Okay. Lo and behold, the rates got worse, everything got worse. Where did the money go? Where's the corruption? What's happened to it? Right. And I understand this is not your state, I understand it's not you, but there are. This is just one example. There's so much fraud coming out left, right, and center. And although it's being covered up so people don't see it, that's okay. But I'm very vigilant. I noticed everything. I may not say a lot, but I. I notice everything. And I do have a heart and I do care about people.

[Wes Moore]

Why don't you run for officers? Why wouldn't you run for office?

[Pri West]

Why wouldn't.

[Wes Moore]

Because I want people. I want people running for office who actually never lose that skepticism, right? Like, here's the thing. I still have skepticism, and I'm a governor. Skepticism will always be my companion. It just will never be my captor. I will never lose my skepticism because I think my skepticism is the thing that will keep me pushing. My skepticism was the thing that will always keep me questioning. My skepticism will be the thing that will always make me say, that's not right or that's not what you said, and I'm never going to lose that. I just do not want it ever to be my captor. I don't want skepticism to win. I don't want you disengaging. I want you running for office.

[Pri West]

I did.

[Wes Moore]

I want you all out there saying, you know what? If they're not doing it right, then let me go ahead and have a take at it. When I first ran for governor, there were literally about a dozen people running for governor statewide elected officials, countywide elected officials. The former head of the Democratic Party and me, the guy who would never run for office for my life. That was the field. I remember there was one time we had a Fourth of July barbecue, and everyone came out. They're like, all the candidates can come out. They can talk for five minutes or three minutes, whatever it was. And everyone goes out there and they're out there in their suits and all this kind of stuff. And I showed up, and first of all, it was like 100 degrees out there. And so I showed up in shorts and a polo, okay? And people were like, he's not taking it seriously. This is a vanity run. It's not. I'm like, is not a Vanny Rum.

[Skeptical Voter]

I'm just hot.

[Wes Moore]

I'm not going to play that game. Like, I'm hot. And I remember the former speaker of the House from Maryland, she called me up that night and she said, have you heard the brouhaha about your attire?

[Ms. Lips]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And I was like, she's like, have you heard the brouha by Shah? I said, yes, ma', am, I have. And she said, can I give you one piece of advice I said, yes, ma'.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Am.

[Wes Moore]

And she said, do not spend a second trying to be like them. Make them try to be like you. Because if you do that, you might actually have a chance of winning this thing.

[Pri West]

So I'll be completely honest with you. When it comes to politics, for me, it's like I think that the biggest thing lacking in this country is self love. Okay? And I want to focus all of my energies to make people realize what power they have within their choices by going inwards. That's my purpose in life and that's what I'm going to do.

[Former Foster Youth Advocate]

Do.

[Pri West]

I'm not interested in making one side hate the other or someone choose me over someone else. I'm interested in people choosing themselves. You know, And I think that if we can start loving ourselves, the small things that we do for ourselves, we can exude that. Outwards.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Pri West]

The current political landscape, they're just not talking to each other. Oh, you're on that side. You don't exist to me. I'm not going to talk to you. And I think it's like a school's playground.

[Wes Moore]

It's awful when you go into the system. You know what? Our own always. I remember saying to my team when I was first running for governor, I said, because most people didn't know me. And I was like, listen, I have no problem spending all day introducing myself to people who don't know me. I refuse to spend a single second reintroducing myself to people who do know me.

[Pri West]

True.

[Wes Moore]

And so the whole point of that is, be true to you. The reason that I need better people and entering into this system is I think we have far too many people in this system who are doing it for themselves. This is my issue with the corruption. This is my issue with people who are making decisions because it's best for them and their families and not best for you and your families or you and your families or me and my families. I need better people. I need better colleagues. I need people who are in it for the people and not in it for themselves or not in it for a special interest. And so you, by entering into the system, you don't have to change, make them change. That should be the goal.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

And we have to stop there. We are out of time.

[Skeptical Voter - History Nerd]

Great job.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

Thank you. All right, just want to give a round of applause to everybody in the circle.

[Wes Moore]

Great job, everybody.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

And obviously a round of applause to you, Governor Moore. You did fantastic.

[Wes Moore]

Appreciate it.

[Naseem]

Thank you.

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

If this video convinced you to vote, let us know in the comments. It was also a Privilege to have an elected official in the center of the circle. So thanks for being on it. If you want to see more politicians in the show, let us know who and put it in the comments, and maybe we'll make it happen. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next time.

[Wes Moore]

Thanks, sho. Thanks, guys.

[Roger]

Thank you, guys.

[Wes Moore]

Do I have two seconds to answer? Answer your question or no? Okay. Priya asked a question. If she's like, so I hear what you're saying, so why are you a Democrat? And it's funny because. And you know what's crazy is that they made a big deal, like, operatives. And I don't care. I don't know if it was Republican or Democratic operatives made a big deal about the fact that when I was in college, I was both a part of the college Republicans and the college Democrats. And what's crazy is that now, first of all, I told him I was like, I was part of both of them because I'm a college student. Like, they were offering free pizza. So I'm like, I'm joining every club. Like, I'm like, real talk. I probably joined, like, 50 different clubs because it was free pizza.

[Skeptical Voter]

But.

[Wes Moore]

But the most important thing is, I think it highlights the fact that I don't come from a political fan. Like, there are some families that come up and who are straight up, like, we. We are Democrats in this family, or we are Republicans in this family. Like, my family came up and was like, yo, I don't care about none of this in this family. This whole thing has actually been very. Frankly, it's been an education for me where. Because we didn't come up in that, like, binary political system. But as I'm going through the process and learning about these parties and learning about their history, and when I decided, I was like, all right, you know what? I'm gonna go ahead and run for governor. I thought about what, not necessarily which one did I want to more connect with is I thought about which one was more connected with my values. And I think about it like, you know, when I talk about how When I was 17, I joined the army when I was 17, I was 17 years old. And I remember on our early days of military training, they taught us this phrase that I never forgot. And it was simple. It was just. It was leave no one behind, ever. It was drilled into us. And this idea of, like, listen, if you get one of my people, I will send a battalion in to go get them if I have to. We leave no one behind. If you're one of my people, you are good and you are protected.

[Naseem]

Right?

[Wes Moore]

And so that became my leadership philosophy on how I did the work that became the leadership philosophy when I was running a poverty finding organization. We leave no one behind. The thing that I kept on seeing when I looked at the policies, and again, I'm not saying any of them are perfect, so y' all hear me on this one. But when I'm watching a party philosophy that's talking about things like kicking people off of health care, when I'm watching a party philosophy that's talking about things like, you know, well, we need to give wealthy people tax cuts because it trickles down. And I'm like, yo, when is it going to trickle down? So that was the thing that got me where it wasn't me trying to fit into a party. It was trying to understand which party better fits with my philosophy. And then how am I going to then address that? So that. That's. I'm sorry, I just want to say that was answer your question. I love those conversations. The only thing I'm really hoping for is that not only do they become voters because their voice is gonna matter. I actually hope there's a whole bunch of them who are gonna run for office. They ask really good questions. I think their frustrations are real and I think their frustrations are justified. Did Wes convince you to vote today?

[Roger]

Wes did not convince me to vote today. But I do like what he said about not letting skepticism be your captain. I like that idea a lot. I'll take that one with me because I'm a natural skeptic. But no, I don't think he ultimately addressed most of the issues we talked about.

[Wes Moore]

Did Wes convince you to vote today?

[Bayonne Bayon]

Wes did convince me to vote today. I think voting is one form of participation, but it's not the only tool available to us. So whilst I think it's very important for people to vote, I also think it's important for people to participate in civic discourse, to be involved in local community groups, to be involved in community watchdogs, trade unions, workers rights, any opportunity you have to advocate for a positive social. Social change in our community.

[Wes Moore]

Did Wes convince you to vote today?

[Pri West]

No, but he did agree with a lot of my points. So I have hope that there could be reform in the future.

[Wes Moore]

Would you ever run for office?

[Pri West]

That's a big question. I do have a yes and no answer. Probably not, but I wouldn't mind standing beside somebody who I believe in.

[Wes Moore]

The thing that I want to say to non voters is if you choose to disengage you cannot complain when the nightmares continue. But if we choose to get involved, if we choose to support people who actually are going to do what they say they're going to do, if we choose to make sure the people who we believe in are actually running for these seats and running for these officers, and then hold them to account when they do, then I think we're actually doing something where we can build a society that people came before us, that they hope for, and for people that come after us. We can build a society they deserve

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

don't forget to subscribe to Surrounded wherever

[Wes Moore]

you get your podcasts so that you

[John Regolato (Moderator)]

don't miss an episode. And if you want to watch the video version of Surrounded, subscribe to Jubilee on YouTube.

[Wes Moore]

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