Surrounded (Jubilee Media): "Has the FBI Always Been Corrupt? | 1 Ex-Mafia Boss vs 20 Cops Surrounded Follow-Up"

Release Date: February 15, 2026
Host: Jubilee Media
Format: In-depth post-debate analysis and personal conversations with Tom (retired FBI agent) and Heather (veteran police officer) about their experience facing ex-mafia boss Michael Franzese and navigating the complexities of trust, law enforcement culture, and political perception.

Episode Overview

This episode of Surrounded serves as a reflective follow-up to a high-tension debate between law enforcement representatives and ex-mafia boss Michael Franzese. Host C explores the impact of the debate, the personal experiences of participants (Tom and Heather), and the broader public's trust in institutions like the FBI and local police. The focus is on unpacking polarization, the culture within law enforcement, debates around corruption, politics, empathy in policing, and the ever-evolving relationship with the public.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Human Side of Law Enforcement

• Tom (ret. FBI, 23 years) emphasizes diversity within law enforcement agencies, noting regional and cultural differences, even within the same department (e.g., LAPD divisions vs. NYPD precincts).
• Law enforcement is not a "static, monolithic beast," but constantly evolves in response to society and case law.
• Technological and procedural changes, such as the adoption of recorded interviews—especially in the FBI, which previously relied solely on agent testimony.

"Law enforcement is not a static, monolithic beast, but one that is responding, responding to society, responding to the expectations of society."
— Tom (A), [03:23]

2. The FBI, Public Trust, and Politicization

• Michael questions the integrity and trustworthiness of the FBI, reflecting broader public skepticism.
• Tom challenges the idea of systemic corruption, attributing mistrust largely to political rhetoric and media influence rather than actual institutional failure.
• The discussion covers high-profile Investigations (Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump), the “CSI Effect” in juries, and the impact of changing administrations.

"Very often the people alleging the so-called political motivation of the FBI are themselves hyper partisan and perhaps have a political reason for doing so."
— Tom (A), [09:07]

"If the FBI's mission requires it to investigate a certain matter, depending on what that controversy is about, it may result in this same pattern that we've seen..."
— Tom (A), [12:18]

• Example of self-policing: Tom recuses himself from a major corruption case (LAPD Rampart) due to a potential appearance of conflict of interest.

3. Accountability and Internal Culture

• FBI has mechanisms for addressing misconduct, including the Office of Professional Responsibility and internal investigations.
• Tom recounts an LAPD civil rights case where officer misconduct led to discipline and prosecution—a process initiated by other officers' suspicions and ultimately pursued by the agency in conjunction with the FBI.

"If an individual were to do the things that Michael alleges and an agency gets wind of it, my experience has been that that's not going to be tolerated or brushed under the carpet."
— Tom (A), [22:53]

4. Faith in Personal Experience vs. Public Perception

• Tom acknowledges audience skepticism: personal stories may not convince those shaped by relentless partisan messaging.
• Despite intense scrutiny, independent investigations (by IGs or special counsels) into the FBI's controversial cases found mistakes and missteps, but "not one investigation has actually found a specific incident where they could show that the decision was made by an improper political purpose." [24:20]

5. Changes in the FBI and Lessons on Professionalism

• The organization Tom retired from is very different from the FBI of the 1980s; frequent legal and procedural evolution is the norm.
• Notable example: How political bias led to FBI agent Peter Strzok's removal from a sensitive investigation.

6. Empathy, Debate, and the Culture of Policing

Heather's Reflections

• Heather, a 22-year police veteran, highlights how professional growth, open-mindedness, and empathy have shaped her work.
• Finds common ground with Michael despite differing life choices; urges curiosity about others' "why".

"When you make that connection with them, it makes it easier for them to open up regardless."
— Heather (B), [36:43]

Approach to Debate

• Heather’s style during the debate with Michael: honest, non-confrontational, focused on understanding and shared humanity, even when discussing uncomfortable topics like the Mafia's use of fear.

Policing in the Spotlight

• Speaks to the frustration of being "lumped in" with bad actors, and how community engagement is vital for positive relationships.
• Notes the difficulty officers face in a hyper-critical environment—reluctance to use force, issues with recruitment, burnout.
• Law enforcement's duty: “to safeguard and protect," not just enforce accountability but also foster psychological and physical safety.

7. On National Incidents and the Importance of Context

• Discusses controversial law enforcement encounters (e.g., ICE in Minnesota, George Floyd), emphasizing the danger of snap judgments and the need for nuanced assessment of incidents.

"When we place somebody under arrest, it's our job to make sure that they're okay, regardless of whether or not they're a good person or a bad person, or they've made bad decisions. It's our responsibility."
— Heather (B), [42:02]

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Diversity in Law Enforcement:
  "Every law enforcement agency has its own culture. ... A perception people have of law enforcement is one monolithic block. But it isn't so..."
  — Tom (A), [02:40]

• On Politicization and Misinformation:
  "Many people have lied to Americans about the FBI... They have mischaracterized, observed..."
  — Tom (A), [07:22]

• Public Perception Shaped by Media:
  "In this day and age, all of us, no matter who you are, we're influenced by the information we take in..."
  — Tom (A), [08:06]

• Being Excused for Potential Conflict of Interest:
  "I was asked to be part of the Rampart investigation... I'd met some of them socially, and I talked to my chain of command about that being perhaps not something I should be involved in."
  — Tom (A), [14:16]

• On Empathy in Policing:
  "I've given in to being able to really take in the fact that I'm just one person in a big world with one perspective... to always try to be open minded, which has really helped me in my profession of law enforcement."
  — Heather (B), [30:06]

• Constructive Debate Highlight:
  (Heather to Michael)
  "So there's a bit of an intimidation factor. When you walked into the room because of your reputation... So fear and intimidation are the basis of some of the leadership and the culture that is within the Mafia."
  — Heather (B), [32:29]

• Value Systems in Opposing Worlds:
  "There still is a value system or an honor, honor system. ...the value systems really actually overlap quite a bit."
  — Host (C), [38:04]

Segment Timestamps

• [00:00–05:40] - Tom on law enforcement culture, adaptation, and public perception
• [06:26–16:48] - FBI politicization, agency integrity, Comey, and high-profile investigations
• [17:47–27:09] - Heather joins: personal reflections on the debate and her career in law enforcement
• [31:14–34:40] - Exchange with Michael on fear in the Mafia, constructive debate dynamics
• [38:53–41:12] - Frustration with public rhetoric, importance of community engagement
• [41:12–43:37] - Thoughts on use of force, national incidents, and the complexity of policing decisions
• [43:46–45:34] - Longevity and resilience in policing, personal motivation

Takeaways

• Law enforcement is diverse and evolving, not immune from mistakes but not inherently corrupt.
• Public trust is challenged by relentless politicization and misinformation; direct encounters with the FBI or police rarely match the extreme narratives in the media.
• Constructive debate benefits from empathy, open-mindedness, and bringing in personal experience—even between supposed adversaries.
• Policing at its best involves protecting both the letter and the spirit of the law, with an emphasis on care for those in custody.
• Participants demonstrate that meaningful exchange is possible even on polarized topics—when curiosity, vulnerability, and integrity are prioritized.

Final Thought

This episode highlights that the reality of law enforcement—at every level—is far more complex than the headlines or most polemical debates suggest. Both Tom and Heather demonstrate that integrity, self-reflection, and a will to listen can bridge divides, offering pathways to trust and reform beyond the binary "corrupt or not" framing.