Is Bryan Johnson's Immortality a Hoax? | Surrounded Follow-Up w/ Chelsea Gods & Bryton Snyder

Summary

Surrounded Podcast Summary

Episode: Is Bryan Johnson's Immortality a Hoax? | Surrounded Follow-Up w/ Chelsea Gods & Bryton Snyder
Date: November 23, 2025
Host: John Regolato (Jubilee Media)
Guests: Chelsea Gods (activist/content creator), Bryton “Brighton” Snyder (student/trainer, episode cast member)

Episode Overview

This follow-up dives into the contentious and philosophical debate that erupted around Bryan Johnson’s quest for immortality and radically optimized health. Host John Regolato sits down with two key cast members—Chelsea Gods and Brighton Snyder—for unfiltered reactions, deeper critique, and reflection on class, mortality, purpose, and the real-world impact of billionaire health crusades.
The discussion oscillates between fiery social critique (Chelsea), thoughtful philosophical probing (Brighton), and reactions to Johnson’s claims and demeanor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chelsea’s Perspective: Class, Privilege, and Radical Humanity

Chelsea approaches Johnson’s philosophy with skepticism and anger rooted in class critique, challenging the practicality and ethics of his mission.

• Class Divide in Longevity Debates (02:23)

  • Chelsea underscores the disconnect between Johnson’s advice and the reality of everyday struggle:

    “The last thing I want to hear is a dude who's worth half a billion dollars tell regular people how they should be living their lives...” (Chelsea, 02:23)

  • Criticism that wealthy biohackers like Johnson push survival/longevity as a luxury, while most people are just fighting to make rent.

• Skepticism of Johnson’s Backstory (07:16, 08:06)

  • Chelsea reacts to Johnson’s “I was once poor” narrative:

    “When he was poor, he wasn't able to do the things he can do now that he's rich. And I think rich people forget that... they lose touch with reality.” (Chelsea, 08:06)

  • She challenges Johnson's assertion that addiction is society’s main ill, suggesting that economic hardship—not lack of sleep or McDonald’s—is the real driver of despair.

• Obsession, Addiction, and Mirrors of Mormonism (11:24, 13:08)

  • Chelsea accuses Johnson of being “addicted” to health and youth:

    “He has an obsession with addiction, but he clearly has some sort of addictions... That's another form of addictive thinking.” (Chelsea, 11:24)

  • Draws parallels between Johnson’s ex-Mormon roots (moderation, avoidance of ‘addictive’ things) and his current health obsessions:

    “There's this belief in everything being addictive. Mormonism teaches you that everything is addictive.” (Chelsea, 13:37–15:20)

• Critique: Vanity and Altruism (30:42, 38:54)

  • Chelsea argues Johnson’s goals are less about humanity than about personal vanity:

    “I think his pursuit is based in vanity. Whether he wants to admit that or not... he's uncomfortable with being like, okay, this is a vain pursuit for myself...” (Chelsea, 38:54)

  • She questions why, if Johnson genuinely sought to alleviate human suffering, he doesn’t focus on systemic change like universal healthcare.

• Death, Rebirth, and Human Progress (30:42–32:28)

  • Chelsea opposes extreme life extension ideologically, seeing death as necessary for innovation and social renewal:

    “It was good when... most of the racists who fought against civil rights died. So I think that death is just as important as... being alive in some ways...” (Chelsea, 31:01–32:28)

2. Brighton’s Perspective: Meaning, Philosophy, and The Limits of “Don’t Die”

Brighton comes from a more philosophical place, questioning assumptions about immortality and the value of existence without end.

• Faith in AI as a New Religion (44:38–48:57)

  • Brighton points out Johnson’s faith in AI as the key to immortality is, ironically, not unlike religious hope:

    “Wouldn't you say that your faith in AI's progression to end death is kind of that same argument, that same faith just to avoid death as a whole?” (Brighton, 44:46)

• Critical of Extremism & Accessibility (45:18–47:22; 51:36)

  • Brighton doubts the attainability of Johnson’s regime for most people, flagging high barriers of cost and discipline:

    “His regime is so extreme that it feels like he's promoting things that aren't necessarily achievable by the general population. And I think that's kind of where the problem may present itself...” (Brighton, 45:18)

  • He calls for Johnson to present solutions for average people, not just “the billionaire class.”

• Life’s Value in Finitude (52:39–54:08)

  • Brighton raises the “meaning of life” question:

    “The value of life comes from its finitude…If we took away that endpoint and said, ‘We’re going to live forever,’... we wouldn't have any drive...” (Brighton, 52:39)

  • Suggests mortality fuels ambition and joy.

• Universalism, Happiness, and the ‘Meat Bag’ (62:05; 64:26)

  • Argues positive existence (not just existence) is the true virtue:

    “We should work more towards living a positive life and having fun, even if that means not following strict health regimens...” (Brighton, 62:05)

  • Employs a memorable analogy about “enjoying the meat bag” (64:26).

• On Economic Disparity & Science Fiction Futures (60:44)

  • Brighton outlines dystopian futures where only the wealthy get to live longer, and the rest are left behind:

    “Is it only gonna be people that are millionaires that live to, like, past 200 years?... How do we make that fair to everyone? And the evidence we have right now... is that, I don't think that's going to be a priority.” (Brighton, 60:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chelsea:

  • “I don't want to listen to a rich person tell a bunch of poor people how they should be living. It feels condescending.” (05:11)
  • “$2 million and you just look like a regular guy! That's disappointing, actually.” (08:06)
  • “The reason why people want to commit suicide is not because they're not sleeping enough... I think it's because life is hard.” (09:26)
  • “I am on the side of what I call radical humanity... I want regular people’s lives to be better.” (27:57)
  • “It was good when most of the racists who fought against civil rights died. So I think that death is just as important as... being alive...” (31:01)
  • “I don't think that a person who puts all of his food into a blender doesn't fear death.” (33:32)

• Brighton:

  • “Why would you want to not die? Is that really the most viable option, the best option for human beings?” (45:18)
  • “If we took away that endpoint... we wouldn't have any drive to complete things, because there's no limit.” (52:39)
  • “I think everyone was pretty respectful... allowing each other to have that time to talk... a more productive way.” (67:22)
  • “We should enjoy the meat bag as much as possible. It’s not just maintaining the meat bag.” (64:26)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Time | |-------------------------------------------|-------------| | Chelsea’s first reactions/class critique | 01:42–07:08 | | Reaction to Bryan’s backstory | 07:16–09:13 | | Addiction & health obsession (vs. class) | 11:24–13:08 | | Mormon upbringing & philosophy parallels | 13:08–16:42 | | Death, aging, and the value of mortality | 30:42–32:28 | | Vanity/altruism critique | 38:54–40:57 | | Brighton opens on AI as “faith” | 44:38–48:57 | | Finitude, meaning, and mortality | 52:39–54:36 | | Economic justice, class consequences | 60:07–61:35 | | “Enjoy the meat bag”/happiness philosophy | 64:26–65:46 | | Reflections on dialogue & format | 67:22–68:19 |

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The Original Tone & Conversation Style

The episode keeps to the raw, unfiltered, confrontational-yet-civil tone that Surrounded is known for. Chelsea is unapologetically direct, sarcastic, and often darkly funny, while Brighton is thoughtful, respectful, and gently probing. Host John Regolato supports nuance and challenges both guests to clarify and deepen their arguments, often with humor and empathy.

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Useful for the Uninitiated

This episode provides essential context for Johnson’s project—debunking the myth that living forever could (or should) be a universal goal. Both guests, in their own styles, warn of the dangers of focusing on individual optimization when collective suffering is ignored. They raise fundamental questions about what it means to live well, the value of mortality, and how class warps even our most basic debates about health, happiness, and the future.

Chelsea leaves listeners with a call to class consciousness and radical empathy, while Brighton encourages us to savor life’s preciousness precisely because it ends.

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Closing Reflections

Both Chelsea and Brighton question the ethics and cultural value of the “don’t die” movement. The conversation exposes real fractures—class privilege, the disease of endless optimization, the spiritual ambiguity of our times, and why our most important debates require honest, sometimes uncomfortable confrontation.

“You could be wrong. So could I. Keep your mind open.” — John Regolato (Outro, 69:33)

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Brighton]

And I would argue that a positive existence is the highest virtue. And that would mean that our top priority should then be ending suffering so that we can promote a good and enjoyable life rather than just avoiding death.

[Chelsea]

It's easy when you're rich to care about not dying. Most people spend all day, every day also caring about not dying because they're living paycheck to paycheck.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

From Jubilee Media, this is the Surrounded Podcast. I'm John Regolato. I've got another follow up episode for you today and a quick reminder, we have new releases every Sunday, so if you want to get more surrounded, be sure to like subscribe. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to this YouTube channel. Thanks so much.

[Chelsea]

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[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Chelsea welcome to this rounded follow up.

[Chelsea]

Thank you for having me.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

You haven't seen any of the footage yet, right? How are, how are you feeling?

[Chelsea]

I don't know. I have a sneaking suspicion. I'm like, they could edit this to make me look like a terrible person, but I'm okay with that because I was there to like, I was there to make interesting tv. I wasn't there for any other reason.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

You know, I mean, I want to express gratitude because you made it interesting. Like you needed to be there. What you said needed to be said because I think a lot of the thoughts and emotions that you expressed. People who watch this video will share. It was uncomfortable sometimes, like you came in hot, but I, I think that needs to be done. That's kind of what this is about.

[Chelsea]

I definitely wanted to push back on this guy because the last thing I want to hear is a dude who's worth half a billion dollars tell regular people how they should be living their lives listening to this man. He's a really interesting character. Like, he's a character of a human being. Right. Listening to this man tell a bunch of regular people, oh, you guys should be sleeping more.

[Brighton]

Oh.

[Chelsea]

Oh, yeah. I'm sure that'll solve everyone's problems.

[Brian Johnson]

Thanks.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Before I ask too much, why don't we react to the first clip?

[Chelsea]

I didn't know this is a real life story.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I'm gonna try and play it back on my research.

[Chelsea]

This is gonna be funny. I think listening to a man who doesn't know what it's like, how he's gonna make rent next month, that to some of us, it feels pretty strange to hear you tell us that we're not focused on being alive. I think every person here is struggling to be alive every single day. So I think a lot of us are here wondering, what does you, a person who's rich, who doesn't know what struggle is like, and who also talks about the fact that you use your own son's blood, have to add to us as humanity?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah. Hi, Chelsea.

[Chelsea]

Hey. Like, he just has, like, this rigidity to him.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I've watched a lot of his content. I've been trying to get him on the show for a while because he's obviously fascinating. He has videos that are about, like, posture. So, like, the uprightness.

[Chelsea]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

It's like, all part of the. You know, his philosophy of, like, sort of optimizing everything.

[Chelsea]

Sure. If you slouch, you're gonna die, so don't do it.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Oh, I'm. I'm the worst sloucher.

[Chelsea]

I slouch, too. When you.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

When you see yourself confronting him, because, like, you came in hot, and I was actually. You can hear kind of a. There's maybe, like, a shake in your voice. Like, we can hear the emotion. What were you feeling like? And did you know that you were gonna kind of bring all that to him right away?

[Chelsea]

I think the emotion that I'm feeling is what a lot of Americans are feeling right now, which is that the billionaire class thinks they know what's best for everyone else, and they genuinely do not. I don't have positive feelings about people who hoard wealth. I don't have positive feelings about people who have so much money and are, for some reason, seeking even more money. How many millions of dollars is enough money for people? You know, that's sort of my feeling that I had with Brian. And I do think that my voice was a little shaky. Some of it is because I felt a little nervous being on camera. I shouldn't feel that way. I Film myself every single day. I am online all the time. Millions of people have seen the nonsense that I create in my own bedroom. But to do that in front of other people, I think was a little more intimidating than I expected. And I do think that some of.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

That is very public.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And I think that some of that anger that I was feeling inside, like, it wasn't necessarily anger. I think I'm, like, fed up. I'm fed up with rich people. And I think I don't want to listen to a rich person tell a bunch of poor people how they should be living. It's. It feels condescending.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Did you research him going into the video, or did that just all come out, like, stream of.

[Chelsea]

I knew who he was. I knew who he was when Jubilee reached out to me, and they're like, hey, would you be interested in being cast? This is the show that we're casting for. And I was like, oh, I know who this is. He's this weird billionaire guy who wants to live forever. And he's like, yeah, that's exactly him. And like, yeah, I know. I didn't watch any of his documentaries. I intended to do some research the night before. And then I went, I'm going to be fine. This is going to be fine. Because what I really wanted to talk about was class consciousness. Like, I think that's what I always wanted to talk about. I don't care what vitamins he takes. I don't care what program he's selling. So I didn't watch any of his things. And he's built his whole brand around this, and he's been doing it for probably, like, 10 years. So I've seen him on and off, just randomly in passing. So I didn't research him. I just knew of him.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

So you said all that, and I think your point was clear. People are trying to just survive, and you're trying to live forever, and it's not landing.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. I think the thing that I really didn't like when he first came in is he was making these assumptions that people aren't really living their life, that people aren't living to live. And I was like, actually, that's what people are doing every single day. People are literally living to live every single day. Nobody is out there actively like, wow, I really hope. I really hope that today goes poorly for me. And, you know, most people are just trying to live. And I thought it was such a funny thing. Like, he has this feeling that his version of living is so much more noble and majestic than other People's way of living. And I just. Yeah, I. I don't vibe with that. I don't vibe with that at all.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah, I could tell. I could tell you were vibing with it. So then we. We saw what you said, and then he gave you a pretty long response.

[Brian Johnson]

I grew up with four other siblings. Single mom. My mother made my clothes because we didn't have enough money for her to buy clothes for me. I went to school and I got made fun of because my clothes didn't fit and they were awkward. I didn't have money my entire life. I became an entrepreneur. I struggled for 14 years with no money whatsoever. So I understand what it feels like to have no money. I know what it feels like to be poor. So I've been through that. I also was chronically depressed for 10 years. I wanted to commit suicide desperately. I really would have committed suicide had it not been for my three kids. I felt like I had a responsibility to them. So I understand struggle. I understand pain. I was, you know, 50 pounds overweight. My argument is not to criticize you or anyone else. What I'm arguing is that companies have built their products to make you addicted and to make you ill.

[Chelsea]

It's where he says, well, I grew up poor. I had four other siblings. And then he talks about the fact that he thinks companies are trying to make everything addictive, kind of. And I'm not saying that he didn't grow up poor, but when he was poor, he wasn't able to do the things he can do now that he's rich. And I think rich people forget that. In fact, I think a lot of rich people lose touch with reality. I don't know if you've ever. You probably have spent time with rich people. I've spent time with eccentric rich people before, and they're all like this. They're all, like, pretty disconnected from what regular life feels like. They don't know what it feels like to go to the grocery store and be thinking, can I buy two of these? If I buy two of these, I might not have enough money at the end of the week. Like, they don't remember what that feels like. So I get it. He's trying. Trying to make it seem like I'm an everyday man. But I don't really feel that way. This man for the last 10 years has bragged about spending $2 million a year to try and be as young as possible, which I actually just find completely abhorrent. $2 million, and you just look like a regular guy. That's disappointing, actually. If I had $2 million, I hope that I would look like, I don't know, Kris Jenner's new face when he brought up.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Because he bring. He goes into so much details to bring up, you know, they want to commit suicide. And I think he. He was even ideating it.

[Brighton]

What did you.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

What were you thinking when you heard that? Or. Yeah, how did that land for you?

[Chelsea]

I mean, a white male in his 30s with suicidal ideation. I wish I could say that that's unusual. I think that's actually pretty usual. I think the reason why people want to commit suicide is not because they're not sleeping enough or they're addicted to something. I think it's because life is hard. A lot of the times. I think life is a struggle. I think over the last 20 years, there's been generations of people now who can't even think about buying a home. Like, that's why people don't feel good, why they don't want to be alive. So I'm not saying that I don't have sympathy that he once felt that way, but I think a lot of people feel that way. And I don't think it's because they're not sleeping 8 hours and 34 minutes a night like he is, which that's actually real. He sleeps exactly eight hours and 34 minutes. Like, that's the magic number for him, apparently. I don't think that's the reason why people want to die, though. I think working two jobs and not being able to pay your rent and not being able to afford groceries is kind of the reason why people might have suicidal ideation. And it sounds like he had the exact same thing. And he's not understanding that the reason why he probably felt so bad wasn't because he was overweight or he wasn't sleeping, but because life was hard. And it was like a story of struggle. So that's my feelings on that.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

And so he pivots, and then he's saying, you know, and he kind of shares with you his mission. He's like, this is about addictive. You know, we have, like, a society centered on death, and they make addictive products. And those corporations are preying on people and selling them death. Do you buy or. I mean, even if you don't think that Brian's doing it, do you think that's a worthwhile pursuit that he was sort of pitching to you? Because in some ways it's like what he's saying. I have a hard time thinking people would disagree with it. Is it more about how he's doing it?

[Chelsea]

Yeah, I mean, definitely. I think you can pick up from my vibes that I'm pretty anti corporate. That I'm not like, oh, yeah, corporate America, hail them. I don't think that companies are ever doing anything good for anyone. But I also don't think that's the main issue with why people are struggling. You know, I don't think that McDonald's is the reason why people are struggling. The other thing that I think is funny is he has, you know, this obsession with addiction. He has an obsession with addiction, but he clearly has some sort of addictions. And he may not view them as negative addictions, but I immediately picked up on the fact that he had extremely over proper posture. That's an addiction to him. That's something he's constantly thinking of. This man is constantly thinking about every single morsel of food that he puts into his mouth. That's another form of, like addictive thinking. Maybe my feelings on the matter.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I wouldn't have thought of it that way. Obsessive.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, but I think it's addictive. It's obsessive. It's addictive. I mean, eating disorders are a form of like, addiction. That man is addicted to trying to stay alive. And here he is saying, oh, well, corporations are doing everything bad for you. Well, do I feel that way when you're trying to sell vitamin supplements? Like, you're doing the exact same. You're worth billions of dollars. You're selling, you know, yourself as a product. You, in addition, sell nutritional products and whatever else he sells. Like, aren't you part of that too? There are people out there who are taking like a thousand supplements every morning or whatever. That's an addictive. That's an addictive habit as well. It's just a different type of addiction. That's how I feel about it.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

So you brought up something that I thought was really interesting, which was his background as an ex Mormon.

[Chelsea]

I didn't know this about us. It turns out we actually have something more in common than I thought, which is that we're both billionaires. Just kidding. I'm not. It's that we're both ex Mormons. So I do think that's really funny because I recognize a lot of ex Mormon tendencies in you because moderation is a huge part of that religion. So it's funny that I feel like you haven't. That you took one thing and you changed it into, you know, being obsessed with your health.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

And I know that he's. He's shared some about that. But then you also are ex Mormon, is that right?

[Chelsea]

I am. I am ex Mormon. In fact, I wish I had been. That's the only thing I wish I had been more eloquent speaking on this when I was in the circle. But you're in the hot seat. You're not necessarily thinking things through. But the thing that I recognize in his ex Mormonism that I recognized from growing up Mormon and everything, is that there's. There is this belief in everything being addictive. Mormonism teaches you that everything is addictive. This is, this is a true thing. When I was growing up, I thought that if somebody drank like a single beer that they would be drunk and they wouldn't even know what's going on. So when I left Mormonism and then I started drinking, which by the way, I didn't start drinking until I was 21 because of growing up Mormon. I was a very. I was very Mormon until I was 18. And then it, you know, it scared me straight for so long. So when I had like my first.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Alcohol, I grew up with a lot of Mormons.

[Chelsea]

So when I had my first alcohol, it was a very weird experience for me to find out that it's not immediately addictive, that you're not just sloppy drunk, that you do have control of your faculties, that you do know what's going on. So I think his ex Mormonism in some ways plays into him trying to control everything and why everything is an addiction and why it's bad for you. It almost feels like he took the test tenets of Mormonism and then he just made it something else for himself because he still mentioned some things that are kind of like anti pornography that's straight out of Mormon culture. That's like straight out of Mormonism right there. I'm not saying that pornography is great or anything, but I just don't think it's as big of a deal as people make it seem. And I think, yeah, no, I would.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I would probably approach to life with you there.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, I think his approach to life is really based in Mormonism still. And that feeling that everything is addictive and can harm you is totally Mormon culture because you're not supposed to have coffee, you're not supposed to have tea, you're not supposed to smoke, you're not supposed to drink, you're not supposed to watch porn, you're not supposed to, you know, have premarital sex, you're not supposed to do all these things. And he just took that. He just took that philosophy of don't do anything. And he's just, like, made it something else and made it not religious.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

If I ever had a chance to talk to him, I'd want to ask him more about that. Because my understanding what's unique about the Mormon faith is there's a little bit more of a vision of heaven that is kind of like a material vision. Like, it's a little bit more similar to kind of like your. Your family and your household in the real world. And there's kind of this immortality vibe to it.

[Chelsea]

Right? Yeah.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

And so there's this interesting rhyme between kind of the sun setting on this idea of kind of an immortal afterlife through faith and. And then kind of embracing an immortality through science.

[Chelsea]

Right, right. I have to say, like, I really do see the parallels between him being more an ex Mormon and, like, his pursuits. Right. Like, now I really do see that. I think that it's definitely rooted in that Mormon culture, and I think people who grew up in Mormon culture will probably recognize that too.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

What do you see in yourself? You know, how does your kind of Mormon background show up in you in the present?

[Chelsea]

My Mormon background shows up in that. I, of course, did the traditional ex Mormon thing and I went completely the opposite direction. That's usually what happens. So, like, some people leave. No, no, it's not. It's not unique to just Mormon, but if you're raised in an orthodox religion, it's. It's pretty common that when you get out of it, that you're going to become, like, extremely progressive, extremely liberal in your approach to life. And that's sort of how Mormonism is left in me. Yeah, I think that's how Mormonism is left in me. It's just I went the exact opposite, and now I'm a wild child. You can tell I'm nothing but trouble all the time.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

No, I can't tell.

[Chelsea]

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[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

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[Brighton]

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[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

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[Brighton]

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[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever. So then what do you do? I'm aware of your content, so I know you're very outspoken about social issues and you're an activist. Is that your full time profession?

[Chelsea]

So I was working a tech job in Utah. I'm from Utah. I now live in San Diego. Of course I'm from Utah. That's why I'm ex Mormon. Yeah, I was working. Yeah, San Diego is great. And I was working a tech job. And Donald Trump got elected. And then his inauguration was January 20th. And at his inauguration, Donald Trump invited some people who I thought were just horrendous. And among them was Conor McGregor and Conor McGregor in November. Yeah, the MMA fighter Conor McGregor in November of last year. So exactly about a year ago, was found civilly liable in Ireland for the rape of a woman named Nikita Hand. And this is not the first person, it's not the first woman who has accused Conor McGregor of raping them. This is just the first person who ever saw any justice. And Donald Trump got elected. The Inauguration's on the 20th and he invites Conor McGregor to the inauguration. I had not made any content about celebrities. Celebrities are not my thing. I don't talk about celebrities, obviously I talk about politics and things like that. But I had made content about Conor McGregor. And this is before I was popular online. This is like on my come up, this is when me coming up. And so one week after the inauguration, I'm in Farmington, Utah, which is small community 20 minutes north of Salt Lake City, working at a tech company in a job that I literally hated. It was the worst job of my whole entire life. The worst job of my entire life. And around. It's okay. You'll like this story though, because around 3 o', clock, what ends up happening is I hear everyone be like, oh my gosh, Conor McGregor's downstairs. And I'm like, Conor McGregor's downstairs. Conor McGregor is downstairs. And sure enough, Conor McGregor was doing an event at some, I don't know, gym place beneath my office. And everyone's so excited. I'm starting to get super emotional about the fact that everyone's excited about Conor McGregor, because Conor McGregor had been found civilly liable for raping a woman just a few months before this, two months before this, Conor McGregor was found civilly liable for raping Nikita Hand. But I'm in Utah. Nobody seems to think that's a big deal. Nobody's like, oh, well, civilly liable, that's just a little rapey. That's a little too rapey for me. Anyway, so I go downstairs after work at five o'.

[Brian Johnson]

Clock.

[Chelsea]

You know, people are, like, taking photos with him, showing it around the office. It's making me very emotional. I go downstairs at 5 o' clock when work is over, and I see a long snaking line of a bunch of white boys waiting to see Conor McGregor wearing their MAGA hats. And it's like one of those moments. You're only given some of these moments once in your life. And I am a see something, say something kind of gal. And Conor McGregor's a few feet from me in the store. And I. I'm like, are you guys here to meet the rapist Conor McGregor? Are you guys here to meet the rapist Conor McGregor? You guys here to meet Nikita Hand's rapist? Is that what you're doing here? And then I walk out of the building and I got in my car and then they called me and fired me, and they called me and fired me one hour later, which PS hilarious. And I knew, like, when I got in my car, I knew that clip was going viral. I knew it was gonna be big on the Internet somewhere. And then, sure enough, I got like a million views on TikTok. The comments were interesting because it's like probably 70% of people who are like, hey, I'm totally fine with a rapist, but 30% are like, no, dude, she's right, she's right. Like, she's right. And that 30%, that's what I do it for. Because the next day, after I got fired from that job that I hated for calling Conor McGregor a rapist, I became an activist. And one week later, on the. On the steps of Capitol Hill in Salt Lake City was the very first 50, 51 protest. And there was nobody leading the protest. It was just kind of like ad hoc. Nobody was organizing it at this point. And I got up in front of the crowd and I just started leading a protest of a thousand people in Salt Lake City. And that was the end. I decided I was going to do content creation and That I was going to be an activist and I was just going to live off my savings and see what I could do for myself. And that's what I've been doing. And one and a half months after I called Conor McGregor a rapist to his face and I got fired from my tech job, I had my very first video get more than a million views. And that exact same week after I made my first million view video, I also made another successful video that became an Internet meme called Joe Rogan is 5 foot 2. And that meme went so big that they wrote about me in Newsweek and it had tens and tens of millions of views. That meme has such a life of its own that if you see any comment section talking about Joe Rogan at all, somebody in the comment section will say, Joe Rogan is 5 foot 2. And the reason why they say that is because of me. And the reason why that happened was because I called Conor McGregor a rapist to his face. And so that's what I do.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

So this is. You have your own philosophy, like Brian Johnson has his kind of philosophy and pretty unique lifestyle, and you sort of have had your own personal transformation and a lifestyle of activism. Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And comedy. Nothing but pure laughs.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah. Well, and the two sometimes kind of interplay. What do you think is the value of. Because it's very confrontational, your style is head on. What do you think is the value of that approach? Because there is often debate about the right approach to confrontation.

[Chelsea]

Sure, absolutely. I think that people on the right of politics, like people who are more conservative, have been doing this kind of confrontational style for a really long time. And there just haven't been people on the left doing it. Because people on the left want to be politically correct. We want to be kind, we want to be accepting. I don't want to be either of those things. No, thanks. I don't want to be kind or accepting. I want to tell people, you know, the truth of the matter. And I think it's kind of funny to be direct like that. I think also as a woman that people don't expect it. For the most part, if a man talks this way, it doesn't feel out of character. But for a woman to do it, it's a little different. And I think it's funny. Mostly I think it's funny. I like being direct with people.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I can tell. And I do think you have a gift because when you were speaking to Brian, I was surprised. I was like, I think we all are in positions or have been in Positions where it's like, I want to say everything I feel to a certain person who maybe you have some beef with, but then the moment comes and you just sort of go blank. And so when I was watching you confront Brian, I was surprised by how you were able to kind of keep pulling the thoughts. Something, though, that I was surprised by. By Brian, though. Was he. He did seem pretty unfazed or at least relatively calm as a recipient of it, like he was. I think he's somewhat used to that. Did you feel that way?

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And also, you need to know that Brian Johnson is extremely PR trained. That man is PR trained. That man is a PR machine. Brian Johnson is well trained. And I didn't. I did get the impression that he did not like me, which I don't mind. I didn't want him to like me. I wanted to, you know, say my piece.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Why did you think that he didn't like you?

[Chelsea]

Because at the end there is this moment where they're going to do like a one on one. And obviously the person who would have made better television would have been myself. But he's like, he's like, anyone else? Anyone else? Is there anyone else? Which I think is fine. I didn't expect him to choose me, but yeah, I don't think he liked that I was confrontational with him because a lot of the other people, some of them were like, oh, super excited to meet him. I love everything you've done, which rich people love that stuff. They love being fond on. They love being told how great they are. Uh, I think that he wasn't expecting somebody like me to, you know, kind of hate him to his face. Well, I wouldn't say I hate him, but, like, I hate what he stands for.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I think there's health intention. I think argument is healthy. Do you ever worry, as a content creator who is hitting controversial, polarizing issues head on? Do you worry that the divisiveness it, you know, and I think about this because obviously I make content like. Like this. Do you worry that the divisiveness overshadows maybe the intention that you have as a creator?

[Chelsea]

No, I actually think one thing that's really surprising about me is that a lot of people will start off as being a hater of me, and then my haters eventually become fans, which I think is kind of unique. People will start off being like, oh, I don't like this girl, this stupid bitch, I don't like her. And then they'll be listening to me. They're like, oh, actually, she's Kind of making some sense. Because the reality of it is I am actually on the side of humanity.

[Brian Johnson]

That is.

[Chelsea]

That is really what I consider myself is. I am on the side of what I call radical humanity, which means that I. I want regular people's lives to be better. So maybe I'm confrontational, but it comes from a place of, like, I. I want people's lives to be better. So, you know, it's funny, I do a lot of streaming, like, live streaming, and there are so many people who will start off in my live streams being like, I hate you, I hate you, and then be like, oh, no, I've got to watch you every day. Because even if they don't like me, they know that there's some truth in the things that I'm saying. And ultimately, they know that I'm on their side as a human being. Do I like the maga?

[Brighton]

No.

[Chelsea]

Do I want their lives destroyed? Absolutely not. Do I still want the MAGA to have health care? Yeah, of course I do. I want regular people's lives to be better, whether they agree with me politically or not. You know?

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah. If you're not a humanist, then I'm not quite sure what you're. And. And that might be more of a thing to consider as, like, AI emerges is like, you know, how do we protect humans? Something that. That brings up, though, because, like, Brian's whole thing is like, you know, he's. He's saying death is. Is addictive foods, it's addictive products like cigarettes, it's addictive algorithms. And so he's saying, you know, I want humanity to thrive by not suffering under the weight of. Of addiction. What I hear you saying is I want humanity to thrive, even my political opponents, you know, just because they're fellow humans. What do you. What do you think would be a better way for Brian to focus his energy if he. To eliminate death in kind of the way that he has been sort of framing it.

[Chelsea]

Right. So he has this kind of spiel about all these corporations, but he's not actually doing anything to break down the systems that are creating the problem. Right. He's not like, oh, you know, it would be really good to keep people alive. What if we had universal health care? What if that was what I spent all of my money focusing on? And instead of trying to sell people a bunch of vitamin supplements and a lifestyle plan, instead I was out there every day being like, hey, if people had access to. If people had access to hospitals, maybe people would be living longer. I mean, he's not Doing that. Right. He's not really doing anything that breaks down the systems to make systemic change that could impact, you know, millions of lives in a positive manner. And, I mean, that's maybe my biggest gripe. He has. He has $2 million a year to inject fat in his face, get a hair transplant, do whatever, but he's not donating to his local food bank. He's not, like, trying to solve hunger crisis, you know?

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Do you think at some point, though, the. The pursuit of. Of, I don't know, elongating human life is. Is a worthwhile pursuit?

[Chelsea]

No, no, not at all. No. We already lived.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Why not?

[Chelsea]

Yeah, well, I mean, I guess we live pretty long. I think we live too long. It's fine. I actually like that we live as.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Long as we think we live too long.

[Chelsea]

I'm joking. We used to die, right? We used to die a hundred years ago. People just died.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Still die.

[Chelsea]

There was no well, but they just died like that. Like, oh, you got dysentery. See you later. Oh, you have cholera. Bye. We didn't have a way of synthesizing antibiotics until 1940. Like, there was no way to mass produce an antibiotic until 1940. Before that, if you got an infection in your tooth, well, you might just die. Hospitals used to have infection wings where the rate of people dying was, like, 50% of people would die. It is very recent in human history that we get the opportunity to live as long as we live, that when people give birth, they're not dying. Having a baby, you know, like, this is a new part of human history. Do I think humans need to live to be 150 years old? Nancy Pelosi, still in the Congress, tells me absolutely not. I'm tired of old people ruling the world. And I really do believe that living longer isn't going to be good. I don't want to hear the idea of the old generation. I want to hear new ideas from the new generation. And I think that that rebirth, that cycle of rebirth is really important for, you know, moving humans forward. The younger generation than me is even more progressive than I am in some of their views. And I think that's. I think that's good for humanity. You know, it was good when. When most of the racists who fought against civil rights died. So I think that death is just as important as, you know, being alive in some ways, because it allows us the opportunity to new ideas and to move humanity forward.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Do you fear death?

[Chelsea]

No, I've been dead before.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Fears death.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, I think, oh, you've Been dead before.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

How explain.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, so have you. Yeah. You've been dead before, too. What happened before you were born.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I see. I see. Yeah. No, that's. That actually is. That's actually one of the most comforting. Who said that? Is. Is that a famous quote?

[Chelsea]

Someone. Someone. Yeah, somebody famous. Somebody. Not me.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Chelsea. Comforting idea. Chelsea. God, I. I do like.

[Chelsea]

Chelsea. God said it.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

It's Chelsea Goddard. Your real name?

[Chelsea]

No, but it's really close to my real name. It's actually a misspelling of my name. And I just, like, ended up mistyping my name so much, I was like, all right, that's my name now.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah, well, when I. I saw it, I was like, that's a good name.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, thanks. But it really is. It's like I would be typing my name into forms on my phone, and then I would, like, thumb it and I'd be like, I'm leaving it. And so after a while, it started being like the autofill on what my name was on forms, and I was like, yeah, that is my name. So I. So I go by it just all the time now.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

In the episode, Brian says he doesn't fear death. Do you believe him?

[Chelsea]

I don't think that a person who puts all of his food into a blender doesn't fear death. I think that man wakes up every day not wanting to be dead. I think he thinks about death significantly more than the general population does. When's the last time you thought about dying? Besides right now in this conversation, I.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Will say I think about death pretty often.

[Chelsea]

That's like a very emo answer. That's very emo of you.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I was of the emo generation, so guilty as charged.

[Chelsea]

Oh, I called it. I called it.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

See, I told you. I'm a person who studies human nature.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be afraid to admit that I fear death to some degree.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Isn't that okay to be scared of dying, though? Like, that's okay. Shouldn't, like, it seems like a normal thing to be scared of dying. I mean, every day we're, like, mostly trying not to die. We get in the car, we put on our seatbelt because we don't want to die, you know?

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Right.

[Chelsea]

Like, we're trying not to die. I think most of us are actively trying not to die.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I agree with you.

[Chelsea]

I'm. I'm not scared of it. I've made peace with the fact that I am going to die. You know what? I am scared of my mom dying. I'm at that age, I'm at that age where it's like me and my friends are having parents die. And I think that's, I think that's the thing that scares me. I'm not scared of myself dying, but my mom dying. That sounds sad to me.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

No, I agree. I think you said you had a son. I have a daughter. That was something. That was a profound shift for me when I became a parent. Was. Okay. The greatest fear is not me dying. It's, you know, my loved one dying. It's, it's weird how that center of, of like mortality, your most vulnerable point moves outside of you, you know, and actually this is a crazy thing. I like that you, you steered in this direction. Did you see there's this company and I'm not even. This is for real. They were advertising how you could have a digital avatar of like your deceased loved ones. And it was kind of like a dramatic video where that's kind of showing how. Yeah. What do you think about something like that?

[Chelsea]

Have you ever seen the movie Lars and the Real Girl?

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah, I love.

[Chelsea]

And his mom dies. Yeah, I do. Yeah. And his mom dies and he has a life size sex doll who he treats like a person after his mom dies. Like after this traumatic thing. Like to me it's like, it's like that. Like maybe it's not a super healthy coping mechanism to hold on to that. Like, I, I get the idea behind it. But think about the implications of this like Avatar and with AI like that could lead to like some sort of level of psychosis in my opinion. You know, there's something about that that I, I think kind of creeps me out. The idea, the idea of an AI avatar is to Twilight Zone, Black Mirror, Hollywood movie for me to feel comfortable with. I think it's okay that we're uncomfortable with death. I think that's very human of us to be uncomfortable with it. It's also part of being human to accept it. And maybe accepting it is what we should really be trying to do.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah. And this is probably just the beginning of kind of a tug of war between a more natural perspective on death that you're sort of voicing or I guess a more traditional one, and technology kind of making promises to make death smaller or kind of conquer it. But it's, it's a, it's going to be a weird time.

[Chelsea]

Well, and remember that the people who have access to not dying are always going to be the rich and it's not going to be the poor. So it really would be like an industry based around the wealthy. And what are they going to do? Start taking poor people's organs? I mean, I'm saying that, like, it could be science fiction, but there's a.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Lot of dark places it could go. But I do think I will say, though, in defense of Brian, I think, I think Brian's intentions seem pretty pure to me. I've consumed a lot of his content. And while I think it's fair to disagree with his approach, he does seem genuinely interested. Like, he believes that this pursuit will benefit humanity. But there are a lot of scenarios to consider. Like, if you unlock immortality but it's so expensive, like, you're saying, who gets access to it?

[Chelsea]

Not everyone can afford the $200,000 facelift that Kris Jenner got to look like they're in their 40s again. You know, it is going to be something that will definitely, probably be a divide between the rich and the poor, but right now, regular healthcare is a div between the rich and the poor. I don't know if what we should be pursuing is living long when we can't even make quality of life good for the most amount of people. Personal opinion. I, I, I do agree. I don't think Brian is a bad guy. I'm not under the impression that he's like some terrible human being. I was actually really surprised that I didn't hate him in person as much as I thought I would hate him. From the things that I had seen of him previously, I only hated him a little bit. Just kidding. I really didn't have any personal feelings about him.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I don't endorse hating anybody, just on the record.

[Chelsea]

So I don't think that he's like a bad person. I didn't get bad vibes from him in any way, shape or form, but I think he's maybe a little misguided, and I think his pursuit is based in vanity. And whether he wants to admit that or not, like, maybe, maybe he's uncomfortable with being like, okay, this is a vain pursuit for myself because I want to look young and hot as long as I can and be as young as I can forever. And then he wants to package that as it being altruistic. I'm not under the impression that it's actually altruistic. I don't think that some guy who the only time you see him publicly is him talking about the fact that he wants to live forever is really based in altruism. You know, I think that it's based in some sort of, you know, vanity.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I think you were the most contentious person in the episode. What do you think? What do you think the world's going to say about Chelsea Gods?

[Chelsea]

I actually am pretty prepared that there might be a lot of hate for me. I. I am a divisive character in general. I get a lot of hate or a lot of love. Like, people either love me or they hate me. There's not really a lot of like in between. People are either like, I am Team Chelsea or they're like that stupid hoe. I hate everything she stands for. So I suspect that I will probably have some fallout from it. But I also am excited because there's some people who are going to listen to it and be like, yeah, I hate the rich too. And that's like, those are the people I want to reach.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

And do you think the biggest issue that we should be focused on, and I think you've said this a few ways, but just to clarify, do you think the most urgent issue is the class divide?

[Chelsea]

Oh, absolutely. I think that the. Yeah, I think the destruction of the middle class and the increasing gap between how much money the wealthy have and how little money everyone else has is causing serious societal problems and will lead to the collapse of society if we don't address it. That's my real feelings.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Well, any. Any last things that you want to share? Do you want to say something to Brian directly in case he ever watches this?

[Chelsea]

Brian, I didn't really hate you. I was just joking. I do think that you're vain and I do think you look your age and I said that to your face. And I'd say it again. I think that's the funny thing. So Brian Johnson and I are pretty close in age. I don't have any plastic surgery. I can move my whole face. I haven't done anything. And this man spends $2 million a year and he was sitting across from me and I think people would have thought we were probably the same age. I don't know if that was what he was hoping for in the end, but any other thoughts that I have? I think people need to know that a lot of what Brian Johnson is presenting is a public Persona. This is a calculated character that he puts out into the public. And he's very well rehearsed on making himself seem likable. He wants to seem like he's altruistic. And again, I don't think that's the case. I think that his pursuit does come from something that is self satisfying for himself. And then he's trying to sell that as a product to everyone else. So that's my feelings on him. And I really, like I said, I don't think he's a terrible human being, But I don't think any person who has, I don't know, $500 million should be spending their time trying to get more money. Personal feelings there.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Well, Chelsea, it's great to meet you and thank you for your time and, you know, thanks for jumping into the arena and being courageous enough to really say exactly what you felt. I think it was. It was valuable and it was a really interesting moment to witness. So. So thank you.

[Chelsea]

No, thanks. I'll be interested. I'll be interested to see what kind of fallout I have from it, what kind of feedback you guys get from it. It'll be interesting. I know that there's going to be some haters, but I love my haters almost more than I love my fans. So it'll be good.

[Brian Johnson]

So this.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

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[Chelsea]

Meet the computer you can talk to with copilot on windows. Working, creating and collaborating is as easy as talking. Got writer's block? Share your screen with copilot vision to help spark inspiration and use copilot voice to have a conversation and brainstorm ideas. Or maybe you need some tech help with copilot vision. Copilot sees what you see. Let copilot talk you through step by step guidance so you can master new apps, games and skills faster. Try [e-mail] copilot extra value meals are back.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8 only at McDonald's for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery.

[Brian Johnson]

So the argument I'm making is that we are at a different point of being human.

[Brighton]

I don't disagree with you. I think although the claim that we may be at. We may be the first generation to live forever. We may be the first generation to not to die because of your faith in artificial intelligence. Advancement is similar to religion because people have a faith that there will be an afterlife, that there will be a good, that there will be something after this life.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Okay, so I'm here with Brighton from the Brian Johnson episode of surrounded. Welcome to the Follow up.

[Brighton]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I really appreciate how you started off this episode. You haven't seen anything yet, have you?

[Brighton]

No, I have not. Not yet. Wouldn't you say that your faith in AI's progression to end death is kind of that same argument, that same faith just to avoid death as a whole?

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

So yeah, you book in the, the, the edit. So you're the first person.

[Brighton]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

And the last person. Because Brian called. He wanted to talk more to you at the end. I'm curious what your background is, because as soon as you started talking to Brian, it kind of everything shifted more towards philosophy and it was also just very civil.

[Brighton]

Well, right now I am a student at USC and I'm not studying really anything health and fitness related, but I do work at a gym and I do do personal training on the side. So I am very interested in health and fitness. But I think something that just resonated with me with this whole idea of not die is just the philosophy behind it. And it's like, why would you want to not die? Is that really the, the most viable option, the best option for human beings? And I think that's just, it just sparked my interest more than the, the health related issues. Because I, I think what Brian Johnson is promoting in general is mostly things that everyone can agree upon, like the very basic things like people should get good sleep, people should eat healthy. What, what really becomes, may become an issue is his extremist views and that his regime is so extreme that it feels like he's, he's promoting things that aren't necessarily achievable by the general population. And I think that's kind of where the, the problem may present itself and that's where the conversation begins. But it was, it was interesting because he, he conceded to that point a lot and he understood that point, that he does need to present it in a way that seems achievable and does need to acknowledge that not everyone can do this. So that's why I wanted to have more kind of a conversation about it because in my research and watching podcasts with him and watching just interviews with him, he seemed to understand that pretty well that he knows that not everyone can achieve this. So I think I want it to be less of a debate because I know that he's an agreeable person. So there's no reason to try and, and prove him wrong and just win the argument when we can like actually reach a conclusion that both of us can agree upon. So yeah, I think, I think it was A productive conversation in that we didn't end up really getting to the point where we were able to provide any kind of viable solution for any of the problems we brought up, which would have been nice. But I think we were able to get upon a point where we both agreed.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

No, I, I think you're right about. He. He is very agreeable. I've been following him for a few years. I actually was. This is probably. Of all the episodes and all the guests, this is probably the one I was the most excited for. The don't dive like idea is so provocative and sounds so science fiction. And I think he knows that that is. It's such a good hook. I think he's good at sort of threading the needle. He has kind of an ideology or a value system behind his goal. You know, he's mission oriented. He thinks that this would be a net positive for humanity. But he's not afraid to lean into the controversy to kind of elevate the message. That's sort of how I, I read it. And I thought you kind of pointed that out and, and I thought that it was good that you didn't take. You really weren't taking the bait on that. And you're kind of more interested in the idea of death itself. And so what your core argument, as I understood it, was like, how do we know if death is good or bad? And this came up kind of right away when you were talking to him, what did you think of his pitch about, you know, the dawn of super intelligence? And, you know, now we need to kind of be a society that's not focused on death, that doesn't sell death to each other because we're giving birth to super intelligence and we don't want to send it the wrong message. That was sort of like the core of his argument towards you. What did you think about that?

[Brighton]

It's not that I disagree, it's that I don't feel like I have been given enough evidence to prove to myself that I believe that superintelligence and AI will focus on preserving our life and that everything AI related will go towards us living the longest, healthiest lives possible. I believe that it may go towards, like, solving diseases and helping us enjoy our lives while we can, but there's no proof to tell me that because of AI we're going to be able to live 200 years. And because it is an argument that really, it doesn't have any solid backing right now, it doesn't feel like something that I can latch on and really believe in. Which I mean, goes to his argument. And I believe I said this in the video he's mentioned before that religions were created kind of as a way to make us okay with debt. And I feel like that is another way of saying like what he's doing too is because he doesn't know, he's kind of latching onto this idea. It's like, okay, I don't want to die, I'm not going to die. So AI is going to be the thing that I latch onto. Instead of religion, it's going to be AI. I believe that AI is going to solve this issue of death when really there's no strong evidence to back that right now. So because it's like a maybe, it doesn't feel like any solid argument that I could latch onto that really makes me believe that I'm going to live 200 years because there's no evidence for it. But because he acknowledges that, and he acknowledges that it's a maybe, it also makes it harder to debate because then he will just maybe go back to the fact that he's just saying maybe that he doesn't know for sure, which I completely respect, because who, who does know for sure? But it also makes it like I can't really debate something that you don't fully believe yet either, if that makes sense.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Yeah, it's a big hypothesis. Like we can be the first generation to not die. But you know, the only evidence I recall him bringing up with you was I kind of, he, he mentioned like some certain species like the hydra. And I, I'm gonna have to kind of do further research myself. But what he was basically saying is there's examples in biology where immortality has been, you know, solved. And so, you know, he kind of uses that as the foundation. Like we, then we can figure out principles to apply that to our biology. This really is a big idea. But that it's not like, you know, Brian is not a 200 year old person. And we can all marvel at the fact that he's done what seemed impossible. What do you think will happen to Brian? Do you think, do you think he's onto something like, let's fast forward, I don't know, 40 years from now, what do you think Brian's health will be?

[Brighton]

You know what, I honestly think that he will live a long and healthy life because I do believe in a lot of the things that he's doing are good for him. I think the problem occurs on a lot of people because he has more money than most people. A lot of people can't achieve the things that he's doing, and they can't do the things that he's doing, I think. But a lot of them are probably healthy. And he is. He is doing things for his physical health. He said before that he's probably going to die the most ironic death. And that's okay as long as people get the lesson that health matters. And I wish the best for him. I hope he does live a long and healthy life because he is doing all the right things for his physical health. I don't know if he's going to get to 200 years, but I do respect him for trying as hard as he can to live a healthy life. I don't think it's everyone's cup of tea. I don't know if everyone wants to live the way that he does, but if he gets to 100 years old and that makes him happy, then I'm all for it.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

So when you came back, your claim was the value of life comes from its finitude, because we are afraid of it.

[Brighton]

Because I'm afraid, I assume you're a little bit afraid to die. But we don't know what it is. We don't know if it's a negative or a positive. So by avoiding it, aren't we depriving ourselves of that experience of death?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah. So I'm not afraid of death. And, you know, if somebody wants to die, that's their prerogative and totally cool. The problem is when the concept of death is part of society, people build things that cause other people to die.

[Brighton]

I was kind of just arguing that because life being short and life having that endpoint makes us appreciate it more. And the only reason we have any appreciation for the things that we do in life and any drive to do anything is because we know that there's an endpoint. If we took away that endpoint and we said, oh, we're going to live forever no matter what, no matter what happens, then we wouldn't have any drive to complete things, because there's no limit. There's no timestamp saying you have to get it done by this time or else this is going to be the only time that you can do it. And I think that drives a lot of us to achieve our dreams and to achieve the goals that we have is because we have that endpoint where we know we're not going to be able to do it forever. Whereas if we didn't die in Brian Johnson's perfect world, then we wouldn't have that drive because there would Be no endpoint. We could just wait forever because we can do anything at any point in time because it doesn't matter.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

How would you live your life differently if you knew right now you had a guaranteed 200 more years?

[Brighton]

I think I would be a lot more lazy, for sure, because I would assume that I had a lot more time than I did. And part of the beauty of life is that it can end at any moment. So because of that, we have to appreciate every moment and really live in it and really feel it, the good and the bad. And I think there's a lot of beauty in that where if I was guaranteed 200 years, then that's, that's, that's a long time. So it creates less reason for me to really revel and appreciate every moment that I have.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Are you religious at all or, you know, how would you describe kind of your spiritual lens or lack of any?

[Brighton]

I would consider myself agnostic. I definitely. I don't deny anything. I believe that there, there is a higher power. I'm not sure what it is. I like to believe in things when I am provided the evidence, but I also understand in having faith. So I'm kind of. I'm just discovering my spirituality more as I, as I live more life and as I grow up.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I couldn't help but just like think of religion and spirituality when, when I was hearing your argument about kind of the unknown of, of death. We don't know if it's bad because we don't actually know what happens when we die. And, you know, that, that obviously sparks a lot of thoughts of the afterlife.

[Brighton]

I, I have hopes. I. I hope that there, there is a heaven that would be great. And that's why I try to live my, my life as moral and as good as possible. But I do think that I don't know, and I think that's a perfectly respectful answer to, to know that you don't know and know that, like, you have no idea what's going to happen when you die. But I do think a lot of fear does step from that. The fear of the unknown. And I think, I don't know if I necessarily agree, but that's the reason why people are religious. But I know that's the reason why a lot of people kind of have that innate fear in them. It's not because death is necessarily a bad thing, not because they know that a negative is coming, but because it's different from where they are now. And that's what's scary. And I think that maybe I'm not going to say that it is because I'm not sure. I think that may be something that Brian Johnson is going through. Is that because he has no idea, he may be a little scared? He said he wasn't. I'll take his word for it that he wasn't afraid of death. But I could see someone in his position doing everything he does and having this strict regimen because he knows life and he likes to live in what he knows. And because death is this extreme unknown that just a different plane of existence that we have no idea, it does make it more scary and it makes us want to avoid it as much as possible, when innately it isn't necessarily something that we have to avoid because we just don't know.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

If you could have more time with Brian. You know, you, you mentioned there were other issues that were brought to him, and this was what other people kept bringing up. Like, what about poor people who live in food deserts, all they have is fast food? What about, you know, people who don't have time to exercise? If Brian's goal is to conquer death, you know, what ways would you recommend he spend that wealth that he's currently directing, you know, towards his body? I think it's interesting how he's kind of playing with the term and thinking, thinking of it almost as just like a quantity of like negative life force or something. Yeah, but, you know, if the goal is to remove death, where, where, where do you think his, his energy could be better focused?

[Brighton]

Like I said, I think I said this in the, in the video as well. He is a big influencer. He has a lot of impact and he has a lot of reach to a lot of people. And what kind of. It seems like he's doing sometimes is presenting the problem and accepting that it is a problem, that not a lot of people can do this, that not everyone has access to the things that he has access to. But then there's no solution presented. And although he is not responsible for presenting the solution, that would just be overall, maybe more of a net positive if he did lean the conversation more towards talking about, okay, how can other people do this? Because I think it's great. I think what he's doing is he's using himself as an example of like, the perfect health. What can be done if you had all of these opportunities, if you had this money. And he accepts that, he acknowledges that, and he knows that. But I think then the next question would be, okay, what can I do? And that he doesn't necessarily have the answer to that because he can't just give everyone all of his money. Sure, he can donate to all of these places to maybe help people in need, but he can't make everyone live the same lifestyle as he can. What I would suggest that he do a little bit more is relate to people who don't have as much money as him, who don't have as much opportunity as him, and kind of mold his advice into something that is more achievable for the general population. And again, that's not something that I think that he's responsible for, but I think it would be nice. He's kind of presenting this idea of health, and then a lot of people can look at that and say, this is great, but I can't achieve it. And that may scare people off. So it may play the inverse effect where people think it's so unachievable because everything he's doing takes so much money that they just say, never mind, I'm going to go eat a hamburger, because apparently there's nothing I can do if I don't have $2 million.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

It's interesting. I mean, if we kind of zoom out to what's going on with other kind of wealthy individuals, there's a similar kind of thing at play. You know, like Elon, it's like, let's be a interplanetary species, you know, Brian Johnson, let's live forever, or let's extend our lives. You know, you. You do see this trend of really wealthy individuals setting these really ambitious goals that on their face seem like a net positive for humanity.

[Brighton]

Right.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

But the backlash that we're kind of feeling right now is just this, like, you're saying this kind of, like, nihilism. Like, well, that'll work for them, but, like, I. I don't really have a feeling that I'm going to be on that ship. It does kind of feel like class is maybe this issue that is more urgent than some of these really wealthy innovators and entrepreneurs are willing to admit. Do you fear a future where kind of someone like Brian, someone like Elon, they solve the problem, but everyone else is kind of left behind?

[Brighton]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that starts to feel more and more plausible and that. I mean, that's happening. We see that with, like, genetically engineered babies right now. It's like a lot of these issues, like, let's say he was able to solve the issue of death. Is it only going to be people that are millionaires that live to, like, past 200 years, let's say. Like, I don't see that happening. But let's say it does happen where people can live. We figure out scientifically how to make people live 200 years. And the only people that are going to be living 200 years, is it only going to be the rich people? How do we make that fair to everyone? And is that going to be a priority for the people that have access to that, to make it fair to everyone? And the evidence we have right now for the society we live in is that, I don't think that that's going to be a priority is making, making it fair access for everyone to have, to have this ability to, to achieve 200 years of life.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

In, in your argument with him, you kind of brought up the goal should not be life or existence, period. Because I think he said existence is a virtue or that that's something he said before. You're saying a positive existence should be seen as virtuous. But then what he pushed back on was no, no, no, no, because everyone's going to disagree about what the positive, like what positive means. And when people disagree, that's when they kill each other. What did you think of that argument he had?

[Brighton]

I don't fully disagree, but I don't think the subjectivity of what a positive life means like does it, does it separate it from the fact that a positive life still I believe is the highest virtue? Because I mean, just for example, let's say someone was born into torture and they were tortured their whole lives. Not that that person doesn't deserve to have a life and deserve to have the opportunity of a life, but to that person, would that be the highest virtue? Probably not. We can't assume that, but probably not. I think more what I was saying with that is we should work more towards living a positive life and having fun. Even if that means not following the strict health regiment. Because that's what really matters is the fact that we're happy. Anything we do in life, most things that we do in life are for to achieve happiness. Like change the chemicals in our brain so we can be happy, so we can feel good. And I think that that's the point of life is to enjoy the beauty of it. Even like the bad and the good, even if we have to have like those, those comparisons of the bad and the good to really enjoy it and to feel it. I think just living in our bodies for as long as possible. If, let's say we're not able to feel any emotion, that's not a life to me. I think the most important thing is being happy and enjoying the lives that we have. Or else life is meaningless if we're not able to do that.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

This was actually an argument I've heard be critical of the idea of heaven, but it applies to sort of Brian's sort of mission as well. It's like, when you listen to music, if you hear a note sustained, like, without any rise or fall, like, just sustained it, it actually is. Is really unpleasant. It's like a drone. A lot of, like, what gives music its character and its beauty from our perspective is. Is the sort of like, rise and fall of each note and then how those kind of form a melody and inner. And there's a dialogue. I think you make a good point. Is like, if we really do think about an existence where we're always just focused on existing, it's. It's kind of got this, like, droney. It becomes this sort of droney, like, vision where it's just like every day we kind of is just a maintenance routine of your meat, you know, this, like, meat bag we're in. It's not really a story.

[Brighton]

Yeah, right. I was like, we should enjoy the meat bag as much as possible. It's not just maintaining the meat bag. And in order to enjoy the meat bag, we have to have fun with it and do whatever. And sometimes that means having a hamburger, in my opinion. One thing that he. That he brought up, which I think is great, is that he was saying he's. He's really happy where he is. Like, he's really happy. He couldn't be happier. So when people brought up the argument, like, are you even happy? Like, are you. Look, if you live forever, are you going to be happy? He was like, all I know is I'm happy right now. My argument to that would be, but if you live forever, would you ever get tired of this life? You know? And that's something that I feel like is very real, that a lot of people wouldn't consider until they are like, elderly and close to dying anyways. But there are a lot of stories, and my grandma went through this too, where when they are at that elderly age, people are often ready to die. And they're very accepting that death is coming and they're not mad about it. It's not something that they're scared of anymore. So what I really wonder for Brian is that when he gets to old age, when he's 80, 90 years old, if he's going to come to terms with the fact that he's actually ready to die because he's just done with life and not. Not that that has to be a sad or negative thing at all. But a lot of people, when they get to that age, they believe that they've, they've done all that they could do, and they've achieved all that they wanted to achieve, and they're ready to experience whatever comes next.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

And it is just, that's the mysterious chapter that, as far as we know now, is kind of certain for all of us. You mentioned hamburgers. I was going to ask you what are, what are some of your favorite forms of death, aside from hamburgers, in.

[Brighton]

Favorite, in terms of, like, what I think is the most peaceful or just.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

If you're using Brian's definition of death, what's something you do that you take a lot of pleasure in that Brian might not encourage?

[Brighton]

Like, indulging in the things that are sometimes risky and like, not, not great for our health. Like if, if I'm losing sleep and I only get a few hours of sleep because it means I get to hang out with my friends for a night and drink, which is another bad thing, and eat unhealthy, which is another bad thing. But if I'm able to sacrifice all of that so I can have a fantastic night, I'm totally willing to do that. Even if it means I'm cutting off a few years from my body.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

No, I, I get that. I, I, I'm pretty sure I'm a little older than you, and I, I, I can't say. Once you get to, like, 35, a lot of what Brian is suggesting, like sleep and diet, it does start to feel, like, pretty urgent. Yeah, I don't think I could survive very many late nights with my friends at my age.

[Brighton]

Fair enough, kids.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

It's funny how that changes. I'm just curious, what did you notice about Brian's interactions with other cast members? Chelsea was someone who I think he had the most heated exchanges with. How did you feel like he handled those?

[Brighton]

I feel like he handled them very well. In this debate compared to other Jubilee debates, there was not a lot of interrupting really at all, especially from his side. He waited for everyone to finish talking.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I noticed.

[Brighton]

And although it may seem like he Monopoly, he monopolized the time sometimes to say everything you wanted to say. I think everyone was, was pretty respectful in allowing, allowing each other to have that time to talk. And that's, that's what I thought going into it, was that from my research, it seemed like a pretty civil person, and he wanted to have that conversation. And I think that was very nice that we were able to, to kind of have that back and forth and really hear each other out before we will. We were able to like, give a response. What I didn't want happening, which I don't feel like happened a lot, is that we were just like all the cast members were just thinking the next thing we're going to like, we're going to punch them in the face the next time we get a chance to. And we really didn't do that. And we really gave each other the chance to hear out our ideas and to respond to them in a more productive way. And I think that was nice.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

I noticed that as well. And that's something the format has. It's known for being this kind of political sort of thunderdome. But I also think it can be a venue for really productive philosophical, even scientific discussions that, that reach like a wide audience. And so, you know, you were part of the tone that made this, I think, like, really civil and feel really genuine. And I liked when you asked at the end if he wanted to arm wrestle.

[Brighton]

Yeah, I do. I wanted to do that so bad. I feel like he just wasn't expecting the question at all. He looked at me and then just like kind of shifted the conversation and went, oh, well. That would have been fun though.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Did he seem physically strong in person?

[Brighton]

He did. I mean, he seems really fit. He seems, he seems healthy. He's a little bit pale, but I think that's just because he doesn't like going in the sun. I'm pale too, so it's okay. I would have loved an arm wrestle. That would have been great.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

It was great meeting you. Thanks for being unsurrounded and, you know, I'll see you maybe when we're 150 and we'll. We'll catch up.

[Chelsea]

I won't.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Okay. Take care, Chelsea.

[Brighton]

Awesome. We'll catch up. Yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me and having me on.

[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

Take care. If you want to see more follow up episodes of Surrounded, be sure to, like, leave us a positive review. Comment. If you're watching the video on YouTube, you can subscribe to Tubely, Jubilee's second channel. You can also subscribe to Jubilee to see full Surrounded episodes. But however you want to support us, just thank you so much for listening. Remember, you could be wrong. So could I. Keep your mind open until next time.

[Chelsea]

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[Podcast Host (John Regolato)]

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