Is Dave Rubin Living in Reality? Surrounded Follow-Up

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Is Dave Rubin Living in Reality? Surrounded Follow-Up"

Podcast: Surrounded (Jubilee Media)
Date: June 14, 2026
Host: Jubilee Media team
Guest: Kyla (political commentator, “progressive realist”)

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Episode Overview

This episode is a deep-dive follow up to the main Surrounded debate episode featuring Dave Rubin—a public intellectual whose personal narrative and shifting political identity (from the “Intellectual Dark Web” to MAGA-world) have made him a polarizing figure. The host and guest Kyla unpack how the actual group debate unfolded, the pressures in public debate spaces, the contradictions inherent in Rubin’s positions (especially as a gay man aligned with components of Christian nationalism), and broader implications for coalition-building, economic reality, and the future of left and right political identities.

Tone: Candid, analytical, and occasionally irreverent—as the participants mix sharp critique with humor and pragmatic insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kyla’s Political Identity & Approach

• [00:55] Kyla: Describes herself as a "progressive realist"—pragmatic, focused on real-world improvements, and generally left-leaning.
  • "So I'm quite staunch real politic... but I'm very pragmatic... I'm progressive by nature and generally left oriented probably because of my personality."
• Brings experience debating on feminism, gender, religion, and political philosophy.

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2. The Debate Space & Dave Rubin’s Persona

• [02:51–05:21] The group agrees that public debate platforms (like Jubilee) foster strategic “talking points” delivery rather than genuine engagement.
• Host: "People go prepped with talking points... makes nuanced conversations tough."
• Kyla: Critiques that Rubin’s performance shifted after being challenged—suggests authenticity is questionable among many public commentators (not just Rubin).
  • [04:31] "I'm not sure how much of what he says publicly is actually his genuinely held belief... There’s a lot of pressure to make sure that your audience is happy."
  • Notes debate is often more about not looking foolish than honest exploration.

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3. Dave Rubin as a Gay Conservative: Tension & Contradiction

• [05:21–09:43] Clip discussion: Reconciling Rubin’s gay identity with his alliances with Christian nationalist figures.
  • [06:37] Kyla: "Even the nicest Christian nationalists, they do want to take your rights."
  • [06:54] Recalls online backlash Rubin faced from Christian nationalists for having children.
  • [07:39] Host: "Dave owns the fact that there is a part of his side... that really doesn't want him to have the ability to be married. But that doesn't seem to bother him as much as the intolerance he feels coming from the left."
• Kyla’s Analysis:
  • The left's cancel culture can drive people rightward, where the right is "very welcoming... as long as they're sycophantic enough to MAGA."
  • "The left can be really annoying and judgy and like nasty sometimes, but they definitely don't want to take your rights away. And I don't know how you square these two things."

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4. Christian Nationalism, Party Coalitions, & Threat Assessment

• [09:43–14:30] Discussing the tangible influence and danger of Christian nationalism within the GOP/MAGA movement.
  • [10:27] Kyla: "With the stacked court... Thomas has been pretty open that he's open to repealing gay marriage."
  • Highlights that dismissing Christian nationalism is unwise, given their organized push for institutional power.
  • "Their extremist factions are getting elected into power... whereas on the Left... almost nobody has seats that actually want to take away private property rights."
• Explains why the right’s big tent is risky, and differences with the left’s coalition infighting.

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5. Coalitional Weaknesses: Right’s Christian Nationalists vs. Left’s Communists

• [14:30–25:12] The analogy of “termites” (destabilizing radicals) in each coalition, and societal reactions to political buzzwords.
  • [19:00] Memorable Moment: Kyla incredulous that Rubin claims never to have spoken to a “real life communist” despite living in LA and being politically active.
    • Kyla: [19:48] "There's either no way he's telling the truth here... or he's trying to do a clip thing... If you're in politics, you've talked to almost anyone of any political ideology."
• Communists’ critiques can be useful, Kyla argues, even if communism itself is impractical and historically disastrous.
  • [21:30] "Communism has excellent critiques of capitalism. I don't think that it offers a better system, but the critiques it brings forward are legitimate."
• Host: Notes that Americans’ aversion to “communism” is much stronger than that toward “Christian nationalism," regardless of actual harm.
  • "I think mainstream... Americans, they hear socialists, they hear communists, and something sort of rises in their gut. Whereas if they hear Christian nationalists, I don't think there's that same reaction..."
• [25:12] Kyla: "A theocracy is just as tyrannical and destructive and awful... You can be afraid of communism and be afraid of the tyranny that happened out of... the Soviet Union... But we need to remember, we have a wealth disparity issue in this country."

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6. Economic Reality Checks: Tariffs, Indicators & Presidential Power

• [29:21–37:55] Break down of the “gotcha” moment: Parker confronts Rubin about Trump’s positive economic metrics.
  • Rubin fails to name a specific improvement beyond referring to the stock market indices.
• Kyla: Presidents have very limited impact on economic outcomes—Federal Reserve (esp. Jerome Powell) holds more sway. Economic outcomes are highly complex and lagged.
  • [32:12–33:30] Kyla explains US Treasuries—a loss of confidence in US debt is a red flag.
  • "When people start liquidating off, they're saying, I don't want to touch American debt anymore. What that means is people don't trust America to be stable over the next 10 to 15 years..."
• [36:29] The US debt’s interest payments now eclipse GDP—a growing, alarming trend.

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7. Predictions & The Way Forward

• [36:58–39:24] Kyla is guardedly optimistic, quoting "Everything Everywhere All At Once":
  • "I am an optimist by tactical necessity."
  • Warns of multiple possible futures: “Is there a future... that ends in civil war and violence...? Probably. I certainly hope it’s not this one.”
• Corruption and lack of accountability plague both parties, but warns that meaningful change will require bipartisan willingness to reckon with uncomfortable truths.

8. Democratic Party’s Identity Crisis & Challenge

• [40:48–42:50]
  • Host: Suggests Democrats need to focus on demonstrable governance over trying to “right” every injustice.
  • Kyla: Praises AOC, Josh Shapiro for pragmatism, but notes Dems lack a unifying identity and “cool factor.” Effective, visible policy changes are necessary to recapture voter interest.
  • [42:31] "Governance that's affecting change will do a lot for Democrats if they can, like, figure out how to do it. But... it's just increasingly difficult in our kind of modern political landscape."

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the pressure to “dunk” in public debates:
  "A lot of people go, 'well, I don't want to go up there and look stupid and not push back on somebody that my political side thinks is bad.'" [03:15, Kyla]

• On Dave Rubin’s alliances:
  "Even the nicest Christian nationalists, they do want to take your rights...even the really nice ones." [06:37, Kyla]

• On coalition-building:
  "Every single side has to police their own sufficiently...it's very easy to say like, 'Ah, the Christian nationalists aren't that much of a threat.' And it's like, why not?" [12:24, Kyla]

• On buzzwords and political "thought termination":
  "If buzzwords thought terminate you, you probably shouldn't participate in political conversation." [21:08, Kyla]

• Explaining the practical failures of both extremes:
  "A theocracy is just as tyrannical and destructive and awful...You can be afraid of communism and...the tyranny that happened out of...the Soviet Union...but Americanism is not a right thing. It's not a left thing." [25:12, Kyla]

• On US treasuries and the future of the economy:
  "When people start liquidating off, they're saying, I don't want to touch American debt anymore. That is really concerning." [33:30, Kyla]
  "If the American stock market doesn't continue to rise, if the Dow and the S&P 500...set new records...If we start seeing those numbers stagnating or dropping, that is a code red." [34:02, Kyla]

• Future and optimism:
  "I am an optimist by tactical necessity...The future isn't set. The future is made by the choices that we as individuals and people make every single day." [36:58, Kyla]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:55 – Kyla lays out her political identity
• 02:51 – Host and Kyla on the pitfalls of public debate
• 05:47 – Clip: Contradiction of Rubin's gay identity & his alliances
• 09:43 – Discussion of Christian nationalism as political power
• 14:30 – Are Christian nationalists or communists “termites”?
• 19:00 – Kyla reacts to Rubin “never meeting a real communist”
• 29:21 – Parker presses Rubin on economic metrics
• 32:12 – Kyla explains US Treasury bonds & risks
• 36:58 – Predicting the future, optimism vs. potential collapse
• 40:48 – Democratic Party’s path forward—focus on governance
• 43:02 – Who should be the face of the Democrats?

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Takeaways

• Debate spaces increasingly favor spectacle over substance—true engagement is rare as most participants arrive armed with talking points to please partisan audiences.
• Rubin’s position exposes core contradictions in present-day political coalitions, especially with the rise of openly exclusionary movements.
• Christian nationalism is an underestimated force in US politics—potentially more organized and powerful than mainstream centrist analysis suggests.
• Buzzwords ("communist," "Christian nationalist") shut down real discussion even when critiques merit engagement.
• Economic health is complex and not easily attributable to presidential personalities—much of what pundits attribute to Trump, Biden, etc., is the work of broader forces (Fed, global economics).
• There are legitimate, alarming concerns about US debt and economic drift, but history is not predetermined and depends on active, pragmatic engagement across the political spectrum.
• Democrats struggle to offer a compelling, unified identity and have become “uncool”; regaining momentum requires effective, visible governance and a cultural reset.
• Both left and right have fringe elements, but the right’s are better at mobilizing for institutional power.

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In Kyla’s words:
"I'm not really into the face [of the Democratic party]... I just want effective policy. Really, I'll take any politician that grifts to the right policy. I don't really care." [43:09]

Host’s ethos for listeners:
"Remember, you could be wrong, so could I. Keep your mind open until next time." [44:48]

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This episode offers a nuanced post-game breakdown—a reality check for those who missed the live fireworks of Surrounded, but a valuable listen for anyone invested in understanding the complex, shifting terrain of American political debate.

Transcript

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[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Okay. I'm here with K. Welcome to the Surrounded follow up and thank you for being in Surrounded with Dave.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, thanks for hosting me and thanks for inviting me on. I really appreciate it. John, of course.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah, I know you are also in the political content space. For somebody who's maybe not familiar with you, what would you describe as kind of your general position or your mission as a political actor in these interesting times?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

So there's a new compass that came out which is always fun to do and I took it. It's pretty accurate. And I got progressive realist. So I'm quite staunch real politic, if anyone knows like that philosophy. But I'm very pragmatic. I really, really, really want to see marked changes and improvements in people's lives. And then I'm progressive by nature and then I'm generally left oriented probably because of my personality. So those are probably the closest labels that you could give me. You've probably, if you've seen me anywhere would be debating feminism, gender issues, philosophy, religion sometimes, and then of course politics. But I'm personally interested in like philosophy and stuff like that.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Nice. Yeah, I think there's a clip, there's some clips going around with you debating Myron, who we all love. I'm just obviously being a little sarcastic. But yeah, he's been on.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

I like debating Myron. He's like one of these weird ones that's like honest.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Like when you debate people and they don't truly believe what they're saying, it's kind of like a bit. It's actually harder because they can be more sneaky and they move between positions more fluidly.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

Myron, like for all the problems with Myron, he really believes what he says. And so as a result of it, he's kind of like honest and consistent. And so it's refreshing in that like when I pin him on ideas, he'll basically go, I mean, you got me there. Which happens Very rarely. So it's weird to be like, man, I really appreciate that raging misogynist for being honest about his misogyny, I suppose. But that's where we're at with political discourse, it seems, right now.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Okay, well, Myron aside, you were in. In our Surrounded episode with Dave Rubin. What were your takeaways after being in there? I feel like I got a little cranky on set. I might have been sleep deprived, but it. I think I was frustrated because people were. Of all the episodes I've seen, it was really hard to follow the debates with. With him. Did it seem that way to you?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah. Jubilee is an odd platform because it feels like a lot of people go prepped with talking points. They want to get out.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

And less so. I like, they. They don't engage necessarily with the prompt. And so I think some people, like, they wanted to tie it back into the prompt. It was just taking a long time, which I think is tough again, in this modality where you kind of have to get out what you want to say and bring it back to the point really quickly within like five minutes, which is a really high pressure situation. But yet I think the format just makes for those more nuanced conversations tough. And so I think as a result, a lot of people go, well, I don't want to go up there and look stupid and not push back on somebody that my political side thinks is bad. So I need to make sure I get a Duncan or something that kind of trips him up or a point that proves him wrong.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah, no, I. That actually, that feels like an accurate assessment of maybe what I was feeling. It felt like, I mean, Dave Rubin is a very interesting character. Would obviously love to have him here on the follow up whenever he has time. But he, you know, his background's in intellectual dark web, which was more of a maybe left coded group. And then he kind of had a schism with some of those people, like Sam Harris. And as he sort of voiced support for Trump, people became more and more critical of him. And then he became more and more tied to, I guess, MAGA and right wing culture, but he's a little bit more heterodox. I guess that's my read on him.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know him super well. I don't watch a ton of Dave Rubin content personally, so I couldn't really comment much there. I just engaging with him as well. It wasn't obvious to me how honest of an interlocutor he was either.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Hmm.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah. And when I say honest I mean, I'm not sure how much of what he says publicly is actually his genuinely held belief at, like, the core of him. And just so it's clear, that's not like an indictment of just Dave. I think this is actually the case of a lot of people in this space. There's a lot of pressure to make sure that your audience is happy, and your audience mostly wants to hear what they think through your mouth. And so, yeah, it was very interesting where it felt like Dave shifted halfway through the show where he was a little bit more good faith, kind of engaging good faith. And then I think after he got really tripped up by Parker's question on economics, which was a good question, I felt like he came back and was a little bit more like, all right, I'm not gonna get put in bad positions anymore. I'm not gonna come away looking stupid. Which, you know, is one of the tough things about debate spaces is, you know, it often comes down to not wanting to look silly.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Okay, well, let's watch this first clip. Cause I think that's actually really interesting take on him. You know, something. A theme throughout the whole episode was really. Or something we kept coming back to was this contradiction between Dave Rubin's identity as a gay man and whether or not that gels with the more, I guess, Christian nationalist part of the branch of maga. You and some of the other cast members addressed it here.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Okay, so Donald Trump is in the middle of his second term. Gay marriage is here. It's passed. It's adjusted. Why? I believe in individual age.

You're friends with Michael Knowles, right?

My. Yeah.

[Communist/leftist guest]

Yeah.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

So what's that coalition again called? I think it's like, Less Equal, that's trying to actually get rid of Obergefell and overturn gay marriage.

I've not concerned you. Well, first off, I've never heard of that specific organization, but what I can

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

tell you, you're friends with them.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Michael is part of. I don't. I just don't know what you're talking about.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

But what.

[Communist/leftist guest]

I would look it up.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Right.

But what I would say less than Lila Rose, Michael Knowles. I think it's. What's that guy's name at the Daily Ride? The Head one.

Okay, but that. That's not Donald Trump.

I understand that you want to go away with this.

No, no, no. That's not Donald Trump. That's not the head of the party. I have friends. Well, first off, Michael and I are friends, but there is a cap on our friendship. There actually is.

I'm friends with Someone who doesn't want you to be in love.

My man, he doesn't want me to be in love. He's had dinner at my house with his wife. My husband cooked for him.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Even the nicest Christian nationalists, they do want to take your rights. I spend a lot of time talking to these people, even the really nice ones. So I just want to be careful. And I guess I want to say, like, I remember when you posted about having your kids on Twitter, which. Congratulations.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Yeah, thanks.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

The comments were horrifying. I don't know if you remember, but it was Christian nationalists and Republicans tearing you and your husband down for having a child.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Well, you should also note there was a lot of love. There was an awful lot of love from an awful lot of conservatives and liberals and people across the board and everything else. The way the Internet operates is people only focus on the negative. So was there a whole bunch of nasty comments? Was there a whole bunch of nasty.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Let's be honest. Let's just be honest. Which side supports him?

[Guest or participant in discussion]

If you're asking me about. For that specific. No, for that specific post, it was mostly people on the right. For sure.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

It was who were attacking him.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Yeah. I fully acknowledge that. Absolutely 99% of the hate that I get is from people that are in this circle.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah. I mean, this is an interesting contradiction. Dave owns the fact that there is a part of his side of the political aisle that really doesn't want him to have the ability to be married. But that doesn't seem to bother him as much as the intolerance he feels coming from the left. What's your take of that and what was your take of his response to you?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

I mean, there's a reality in which obviously you can be Republican and conservative and disagree with Christian nationalists. Right. Which I think Dave occupies that space a little bit. There's also something very interesting, I think hell hath no wrath, like the left hate. There's a lot of people who, in experiencing pretty strong pushback from the left, have actually trundled towards the right. And I think there's. There's this interesting kind of pipeline that has been talked a lot about how in many ways, for large pundits, if they get like, canceled, even though canceling is. It's complicated. It's more like they just get harassed and then they go to the right, but they still have a platform, is that the right is very welcoming. It kind of just like wants any and everyone, as long as they're sycophantic sufficiently to maga and the left doesn't really have, like, a central value, but definitely, if you break it, people are going to come after you. And so I'm not surprised to hear that a lot of Dave Rubin's hate comes from the left. The issue is that when it comes to, like, his daily existence, like his day to day, he has to reconcile with the fact that he is, in large part giving power to people who, if they had their way, would take away his rights and many other people's rights. He, like, has to acknowledge the import of Christian nationalism to Trump's bind and hold on the Republican Party and how important Christianity is to particularly the Republican Party and the way that Christianity moves in Shakespeare politics right now. And I understand that if he's decided to make his bed with the right, that's his choice to do. It's one of these things where I look and I go, look. The left can be really annoying and judgy and, like, nasty sometimes, but they definitely don't want to take your rights away. And I don't know how you square these two things. And that's a question only Dave can really answer.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah, once again, I'd love to talk to him about it. What Mason brought up was it's not less than, I think it's greater than is the organization. Michael Knowles, I think, is kind of like a surrogate for it. Also Lila Rose, they've both been on the. On surrounded, and that is a political activist group that wants to overthrow or overturn the gay marriage or marriage equality decision. How much of a portion, though? Because Dave doesn't sound concerned about this portion of maga, and he might just be making a calculation and a confident one. It seems from my perspective that that is not a majority position of the party, and that's not something Trump is going to take up while he's in power. Do you think that's a safe calculation and do you think it's a big part of the party?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

I think with the stacked court that we have right now, I mean, I think Thomas has been pretty open that, you know, he's open to repealing gay marriage. And so whether Trump would attack it or not isn't necessarily the question. The question is when you've done institutional damage and you've erected sycophants and you have to play the part of satisfying certain sycophants. A large portion of the sycophantry for Trump is born out of Christian nationalism. JD Vance is a Catholic.

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Right.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

And I think acting like it's not a threat when we've seen so many rights get rolled back is a calculation

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

you can certainly make. It's not one I think is wise.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

But the sands, the sands all seem to be shifting so much. So you mentioned J.D. vance is Catholic, but J.D. vance doesn't cross me as a Christian nationalist. I mean, he doesn't even seem to particularly like this Pope.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, it's too liberal.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

And so, yeah, I guess my, my thought, or I guess if I were to steel Man Dave's position is, sure, there is a significant portion of the right that wants to see traditional marriage protected and they want to see gay marriage overturned, but it's probably not enough of a coalition to become a reality. And I guess that having that wide of a reach or that big of a tent seems strategically valuable. So I guess what I would throw back to you is, do you think the left actually struggles to make its bed with people who it has differences with? Certainly in. In the name of. Of political change?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Certainly. I think the left is all full of infighting. That's like one of the true and trues. The main thing is that every single side has to police their own sufficiently. Right? Yes. You have to understand, if you're a liberal, that there are certain communists and socialists that you're going to work with, but you're going to disagree on certain areas. And I think one of the issues the left has had is that the liberals tried to pretend like they were socialists and they weren't, and the socialists were like, what the heck?

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

You said you were just like us. And then you're rolling out moderate Dem policy. Like, what's happening here?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

I think, though, on the right, you also have to be careful to police your own. Right. It's very easy to say like, ah, the Christian nationalists aren't that much of a threat. And it's like, why not? Why aren't they that much of a threat? It's actually concerning that J.D. vance is fighting the Pope. That means he's a Christian nationalist in all of the ways that matters most, which is a Christian who puts their politics before their faith. Right. J.D. vance is fighting with the Pope because the Pope is too left, because the Pope is telling him that, like, hate and war and violence is wrong, which it is by Christian standards. And I think one of the things you have to be concerned about with any side is their extremist factions. And the issue is in the case of the Republicans, their extremist factions are getting elected into power. They're having seats. There are many Christian nationalists that are senators, that are congressmen, whereas on the Left, you know, there are concerns about extremism as well. People who want to, for example, take away private property rights that the left does need to be thinking about, particularly if you're on the left and you disagree with that position. The issue is that almost nobody has seats that actually want to take away private property rights. Nobody has political power. That's like the socialist bane of existence is that they have a lot of political voice and they have very little political power. And so I think when you scale these things, you have to go, look, the media is very loud on the left in certain ways, but the media isn't necessarily the same as elected officials. And we're seeing, despite the fact that abortion has 80 support nationally, there are tons of states with very restrictive bans, bans that even their constituents don't necessarily agree with. Because we have Christian nationalist politicians in who try to use the Bible to justify their preferential policy rather than using like logic and rationale. And that's the part of Christian nationalism we have to be concerned about because they do have political power. They do have camps. I mean, I grew up in this world. I grew up as fundamental Christian. I remember going to camps where they teach you how to be politically effective and how to get into like they're thinking about political efficacy in a way and have been for 20 to 30 years in a way that most groups are not thinking about it and they've been effective at it. They are in powerful positions.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah, there's a dialed in shrewdness there that maybe there is in other places. And I guess, you know, maybe Nick Fuentes just to plug him for a sec or not to plug him, to map him in this maze, you know, he strikes me as a Christian nationalist.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Openly to some degree or motivated by that ideology.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

I would love to go down this rabbit hole further with you because I know you have a lot of insight there, but you mentioned, you know, the communist, more socialist faction of the left. Private property, that did come up. And so I'm gonna play you a clip and we'll kind of hear that. Cause I'm curious where you stand there.

[Communist/leftist guest]

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[Communist/leftist guest]

That under our current system we see that the majority of power, as well as just like monetary control, exists within people who own private property. And to essentially decrease that gap, progressives want to give more power to those who are in the workplace.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Do you not want people to own private property?

[Communist/leftist guest]

Well, I'm definitely anti capitalist. I would say so. I would say that workers should own the means, production, right?

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Oh, so you're communist?

[Communist/leftist guest]

Yeah.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Oh, interesting.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

Yeah.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Wow.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

I don't know what is communist.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

I haven't talked to a real life communist.

[Communist/leftist guest]

What's a communist?

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Well, you want the people. You want the people to own the means of production. And you don't seem to believe in property.

[Communist/leftist guest]

The people who create value, as in create the value of commodities, should own the actual value that they create from that process. Yes.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

So my answer, if you want the people, everyone in this room and everyone in this country, if they have more, what I would want is that you would take less from them. So you tax everybody less. You remove regulation, you create the conditions for competition and capitalism so that more people will have more of their money. I want you, I assume you work. Do you work?

[Communist/leftist guest]

Yeah.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Do you pay taxes?

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

Yeah.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

I want you to keep more of your money. I don't know what you do. I don't know how much you earn. Whatever it is you earn, I want you to have more money so that you can put that money back into the system.

[Communist/leftist guest]

The majority of the wealth in the system is, is owned by 1% of the population. You understand that, right? And where does that wealth come from.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Wait, 1% of the population. Do you know how much percent they pay in taxes? That 1%?

[Communist/leftist guest]

Not nearly enough. Because the majority of their, because the majority of their wealth comes from.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

It's 47%. Right on, hold on. So 1% of the population pay 47%. You accept that?

[Communist/leftist guest]

Okay, yeah, yeah.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

So what would be their fair share?

[Communist/leftist guest]

What percent of that?

[Guest or participant in discussion]

What would be their.

[Communist/leftist guest]

Is their actual wealth that they own that again, majority of these lineages of, well, you see, power and ownership.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

What would be their fair share?

[Communist/leftist guest]

What would be their first accumulation of

[Guest or participant in discussion]

what would be their fair share?

[Communist/leftist guest]

I would say that the fact that they own 1%.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

You're not letting me 47% in taxes.

[Communist/leftist guest]

Here's my problem. You're not letting me finish the point. So we can't get from point A to B. Do you understand that?

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Okay, so if you accept that 1%,

[Communist/leftist guest]

there's not going to be a fair share when their wealth is coming from the back ends of colonialism. So that's not going to work.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

I haven't spoken to a real life communist.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

That was great movie. I was like, you wanted to talk to the far left.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

What was your expression in that moment?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

One was disbelief. I basically didn't believe him that he's never talked to a communist. He was like part of the left

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

for a long time. There's lots of communists.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

But also I'm like, if you're telling

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

the truth here, how have you not

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

talked to a communist before? You like lived in la. It's a pretty like rampant, large like political, philosophical group.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

You are part of a side that insists that everyone's like a far left commie and you've just never talked to a communist before.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

I don't know, that seemed very. I, I basically was gobsmacked. I was like, there's either no way he's telling the truth here and he's

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

like trying to do a clip thing

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

or he's telling the truth. And that's like a big red flag to me because it's like, how could you want to talk to the far left? And you've just never even talked to a communist before. That seems. Yeah, I don't know somebody who's in politics. I've talked to almost anyone of any political ideology and if I meet somebody with an ideology, I don't know. I talked to him extensively. So it's just very strange to me. I just don't know if I believe him that he's never talked to a communist. That's crazy.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah. There are moments where Dave does some posturing where I wonder if it's a little bit more of a for a fact than it is, like you said, aligned with his real life experience. But, you know, he hasn't lived in, in LA for some time and maybe that's what he meant by that. My perspective though is there's no. And let me know if you agree with this or disagree. There's no faster route to losing support for your political cause than calling yourself a communist in American politics. Do you agree with that? I mean, regardless of what we think about the idea.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, I think Zena.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Why would she openly, I guess, put that label on herself? It felt sort of self defeating, I thought.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

I think it's because it's honest. And so most communists will call themselves socialists because people accept socialism, but they don't accept communism. The issue is that the line between a socialist and a communist is extremely vague and unclear, which is why I think, you know, I've talked to Zina about it and she usually goes with socialists because she understands that people prefer that type of language. But the reality is that, like, if you're a socialist and especially, particularly if you don't believe in private property, for example, and you want to see a complete erasure of capitalism like you are a communist, I just think it's bad that it's like a buzzword, Honestly. I think if buzzwords thought terminate you,

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

you probably shouldn't participate in political conversation.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Honestly, like if I hear that somebody's a communist, that wouldn't make me go, oh, they have nothing to offer here because communism has excellent critiques of capitalism. I don't think that it offers a better system, but the critiques that it brings forward are legitimate and things that capitalists need to consider because they. There are major problems. Capitalism is just the worst, best system we've invented so far. Right.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

So, you know, we talk about kind of does, does the right have termites with their Christian nationalists?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Do you think the left has termites with communists? Because, I mean, there's a lot of chatter after Hasan posts a book of him he's reading on the train. Was he reading Karl Marx?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Do you think this is a bad path to go down for the left's own political goals?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

I think communism is the way that it's been built out by the thought leaders in. It doesn't work. And that's why it's a really bad idea. The issue is that communism as a principle isn't built on keeping other people away from accessing things Necessarily, it's built on this principle of trying to bring about as much egalitarianism as possible, which is a hard thing to look at on its face and go, well, that's terrible. Right. What's bad about communism is that when it gets put into practice, it leads to authoritarianism, tyranny and like mass problems, just like most authoritarian groups. And so does the left need to be aware of communism? Absolutely. But the left needs to be aware of communism in large part because communists are very self aware that Democrats are not their political friends necessarily. They understand that they are working in many ways in opposition. This is why you'll hear communists say things like, cut a liberal and a fascist leads. Right. And I disagree with this. But there is this reality that when we're talking about competing for political power.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Insane. I've never heard that.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

Well, welcome to Internally Online, I suppose. I apologize.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Sorry to interrupt you.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

No, you're good.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

The only places where communists can compete for political power is in states and areas already Blue won, which is why people further left to Democrats are mostly going to fight with Democrats. And I think there's something good about the fact that communists recognize that they're separate from Democrats. And I think it's bad that Democrats don't recognize that we're different from communists. I think that is a bad thing. I don't really want to call them termites. It's really dehumanizing. I don't even think Christian nationalists are termites. I think their ideology is destructive to the faith, most importantly to me, and destructive to the state. Right. In the case of communism, I think it's destructive to the state. But I think that there are certain communist arguments that have led to really good policy. I'm very. For market regulation, increasing market regulation. We tried the neolib thing in the 2000s and we got the 2008 crash. So there's a lot to be valued there as long as it can be argued with like logic and rationale. And my issue with Christian nationalism is they usually harken back to the Bible for their arguments for why their policy ought to be some way. And that's just not a policy I'm. I'm open to.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah. And I guess what I mean by termites, I don't mean the people themselves are termites, I guess I mean the. Does the coalition sort of have a stability problem? And something you mentioned earlier is like Christian nationalists are just much more politically mobilized and have been, you know, building momentum for some time. I also would argue that it just Rhymes Christianity and Christian nationalism rhymes with American culture much more. And so I think there's more of an advantage there. They can find alliances culturally with very moderate American voters. I guess my. My take would be that Democrats don't have that advantage. You know, pairing yourself with, I don't know, it'll be interesting to see how Mamdani does. But you see as such an immediate rapid dogpile on DSA candidates once they are kind of in the mainstream of politics. And I think mainstream or average Americans, they hear socialists, they hear communists, and something sort of rises in their. Their gut. Whereas if they hear Christian nationalists, I don't think there's that same reaction, even though they might be very comparable in terms of their. Their radicalness.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Sure. Yeah. And to this, I would basically say to the American, this is like, where buzzwords are causing thought termination. Like, a theocracy is just as tyrannical and destructive and awful. Like, look at the theocracies that exist historically or now. Nobody wants to live there. It's not great. So, like, you can be afraid of communism and be afraid of the tyranny that happened out of, like, the Soviet Russians, whatnot. Like, that's. That's fine. The Soviet Union was a failure of an experiment. The issue is that, like, we need to, like, Mamdani is doing cool stuff. He's just doing cool stuff. And this is why I'm very big on, like, the practical side. Right. Like, the reason I'm not a communist is I really value private property. That's why I'm not a communist, because I think taking away private property rights only leads to tyranny and the destruction of the lower class. I think it, like, is the worst thing that we can do for people's access to, like, tangible fungible rights. That's why I'm against communism. That's why I'm not a communist. Right. But I think there's a lot of communist arguments that are pointed. I think that we do have a wealth disparity issue in this country. I think it's. As somebody who comes from Canada, it's insane to know that people are choosing between going into debt or their bodily integrity. Like, it's just, you know, my friend has an abscess, and he's a, you know, dad of three kids, and he's got this huge abscess in his tooth, and he's just hoping it clears because he can't afford to go and get medical care for it. That's right. Insane to me. And so this will all get labeled as communism. And it's just like, like there's this thing that the Republicans and I think Democrats did too where they kind of gave over Americanism to the right when it's like Americanism is not a right thing. It's not a left thing. Like it's its own kind of rugged individuality and liberty and you know, these balances of power and, and rights for the common man. Like that's Americanism. It's not a left or right issue. And it's, it's actually sad to me to see that Christian national nationalists can co opt it so strongly when I would say that they're both defying the faith as a Christian, like I think Christian nationalists are destroying our faith, are creating a false version of a past version of America that's idealized, that never existed and that nobody wants to go back to. I think I got sidetracked from our

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

original conversation, but yeah, no, no, I appreciate it. Well, yeah, maybe that's the, that's a running option for the third party's name is the Americanist.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

Maybe they'll finally get off the ground.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Yeah, because that's something I do wonder is if, you know, as the parties sort of widen or the delta widens every once in a while parties do sort of cycle through and you do wonder if it would happen in our lifetime. Earlier you mentioned Parker. Parker kind of had a gotcha, a big gotcha moment with Dave. Although how big is debatable. I think depending on who is watching it. But at the core of the socialist or even communist argument is really economics. And so Dave is a defender of Trump and his economic policies and so Parker really went for him with this. So I'm gonna play that clip and then hear your thoughts. Also Parker, email me back. I've been trying to get him to do one of these for a minute. All right, so this is Parker asking Dave about key metrics.

[Host or interviewer]

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[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Nice to meet you.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Hi, how are you?

[Parker (questioner)]

All right, good. What is one main metric that Donald Trump has made better off since he got in office? Like an example would be gdp, unemployment, inflation, et cetera.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Well, right now, first off, the big beautiful bill was just passed last year and it's kicking in now. Right? It's kicking in now. Okay, so we are see. We're going to now see results of that, like even the tariffs. All right, so let's do tariffs. Are you for or against tariffs?

[Parker (questioner)]

Against the universal tariffs. So what's the main metric that he made better off?

[Guest or participant in discussion]

What?

[Parker (questioner)]

What's the main metric that he made better off? Gdp, unemployment, Inflation. Do you have any idea?

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Listen,

[Parker (questioner)]

I don't think you do.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Do you think. Hold on. So you're arguing that things economically were better under Joe Biden at the end of his administration. So can you give me an example of how.

[Parker (questioner)]

Yeah, GDP growth is better off. Real median wage growth is better off. Inflation was better off at the end of his administration. Unemployment was better off at the end of his administration. With the worst year of job growth in the past four years, just this last year under Trump's administration, the inflation, 3.8% year over year since Trump got in office, we're seeing all of those economic indicators become worse off. Can you tell me anything that he's done to make it better off? You say it's broken for Democrats. It sounds like it's broken right now under Trump.

[Guest or participant in discussion]

Have you looked at the stock market?

[Parker (questioner)]

It's worse off in terms of growth in 2025 as compared to 2024. If you look at Dow Jones and S&P 500, they're both up quite a

[Guest or participant in discussion]

bit right now, but a lower rate, lower. You know, things don't happen overnight. So Donald Trump, for example. Things don't. That's true. That's true.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Is that how you remember it happening on set? Obviously it gets edited a bit.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Basically, yeah. I think Parker just kept cycling. What's a metric? What's a metric? What's a metric? And we just didn't really get a firm answer until kind of the end with the Dow and the S&P 500.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

The Dow. Look at the Dow right now. I mean. Okay, so I'm going to defend Dave a little bit. So when it comes to it, was tariff time. When we were approaching, the stock market was crashing big time because everybody was freaked out about what the impacts were going to be of the tariffs that Trump wanted to implement. And he went even further than pretty much everybody thought. However, the aftermath of that, and I guess at least reflected in the stock market, inflation hasn't gone up as aggressively as I think a lot of people feared it has gone up. But compared to the inflation that happened under Joe Biden, it still is much tamer. And the market did recover and essentially baked in the risk that they were calculating. And as far as we've seen, the stock market has continued to steadily go up. Now, sure, you can compare it to the last few years of Joe Biden's administration, but I guess the only thing I would say to Steel man Dave, is the darkest predictions, which were very common, did not come true. And let's factor that around war out a little bit at the moment.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Sure.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Just pure economic policy and less foreign policy.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

What is your take?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

It's interesting when people talk about economics under presidents because the president has almost nothing to do with the economy, by and large, there are certain things. So Trump is actually a unique one in that he's done things to affect the economy. Usually the economy is managed by the Federal Reserve. Right. And Jerome Powell, the goat. Okay. Anyone in economics knows that he was just an absolute king. I mean, the fact that America came out of COVID so well is exclusively Jerome Powell's. Thanks. He managed the country so well. Which is why it's absurd that Trump is now weaponizing the DOJ against him. But there's really few ways that presidents can impact economics and through war and

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

through tariffs, which is funny that, you know, we have this.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

So, yeah, there's this interesting thing where I actually follow a lot of economic channels. I'm really interested in economics. And most modern economists go, this AI bubble is getting us through everything right now. Like, yes, the stock market has continued to trendle up, not as much as we would expect with how much of an AI bubble we're in. And we know some of that slowing and cooling is from, frankly, the lack of stability. We have seen some pretty large U.S. treasury liquidations. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, but that's a really concerning sign. Do you know what US Treasuries are?

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Educate me. And the listener. I mean, I would embarrass myself if I tried.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, it's super esoteric. This is something most people don't need to know, but it's essentially Debt, It's US Debt that gets like, packaged up and people buy the debt and people like to buy US Treasuries because America is really stable. It pays its debts. And so you're guaranteed a certain amount of, of basically interest and paybacks when you own Treasuries, which is why American Treasuries are really highly valued. Most countries and most super rich people own lots of American Treasuries. So China and these countries, they own a lot of American debt. When we say China owns American debt, we mean that they own American Treasuries. When people start liquidating off, they're saying, I don't want to touch American debt anymore. What that means is people don't trust America to be stable over the next 10 to 15 years, that it will pay back its debts, so they don't want to own it anymore. That is really concerning. And so I agree that none of the doomsday predictions happened, but that's mostly because most journalists and analysts don't understand economics well enough to report accurately. And they have to sell like bait clipping stuff. So they have to be like, oh my gosh, it's the end of the world. And it's like, that's not how inflation and economics work. Like, what we're seeing and feeling now is the beginning grumblings of it, where we are trundling towards some potential explosion, whether that be the US Dollar suddenly becoming massively deflated. That would be terrible, right? So you're right. The stock market has continued to go up under Trump. The issue is if it stops going up, that's like red alert. That's like very scary. If the American stock market doesn't continue to rise, if the Dow and the s and P500, a lot of people don't know this. It sets new records, like every week like that. We want it trundling up. We want 2 to 4% inflation for a healthy country. If, if we start seeing those numbers stagnating or dropping, that is a code red. And so I think a lot of people like, well, it's not that bad. Like, things are mostly the same. It's like sort of. But like your electronics, this camera, I bought it for 250. It's worth $800 right now. We are seeing the growth, we are seeing the collapse of, you know, unemployment rate is 5.2%. The new Fed report came out today. People who, who have graduated have a 5.2% unemployment rate, which is higher than the national average. That's really not good. That means new Sectors of educated sectors don't have jobs for new graduates. That doesn't bode well for the future, especially for the future with a really aging populace that is increasingly relying on Medicare and all these social insurance and these social welfare networks. That's very spooky with an aging populace.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

I'm glad you kind of brought up the deficit because that actually probably is the easiest attack on Trump, economically speaking, is it has gone up, I think, what was it, like 25% since he's become president? And that was something he did definitely run on. You know, Doge was all about trying to take care of that. So it's not a good look. And I do think, isn't the just the interest on our debt eclipses gdp? Is that true?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, it is.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Which is really scary to think about.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

Really bad.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

So I mean, we're coming up on our time here, I guess. What are your predictions? How bad, how bad is this going to get? Are we looking at like a pitchforks storm, the best deal, you know, let's pull billionaires out of their houses moment? I would not obviously advocate for that. But you gotta wonder, does history repeat itself and is that something that's, that's coming for us?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, I think it's really important to remember that history isn't linear and neither is the future. So I kind of, I always tell people I am a optimist by tactical necessity, which is a quote from my favorite movie. Everything everywhere, all at once. The future isn't set. The future is made by the choices that we as individuals and people make every single day. And so is there a future timeline that ends in like civil war and violence and the like death of the bourgeois? I probably, there's probably one multiverse where that's happening. I certainly hope it's not this one. And the reality is that multiple universes.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

And I, I hope that that future isn't the one that we see. I want a future where Republicans wake up and they go, you know what we did usher in a corrupt president. Like there isn't a way that you get away from the fact that he is like the slush fund and his personal wealth growth despite, you know, that

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

despite the country being 25% increase in

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

debt, he's made $4 billion in a year, him and his family. You can't run away from that. You can't run away from the fact that you got Ponzi schemed by a president who used his presidency to weaponize it, to line his and his friends pockets. And he's Open. He's open about how he wants the DOJ to attack his political enemies. Enough. Just today, he released something against the woman who won a lawsuit against him for sexual assault.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Right.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

He said we need to weaponize the DOJ more against her. And I don't know how we fix this until both sides do a little bit of reckoning. And the issue is that I'm really willing to do reckoning on the left. I'm probably one of the people on the left that's popular for this. But the left has a really good point, which is that it takes two to tango. And if Republicans don't own the fact that they have been usurped by corrupted politicians, and it is not the same as Biden being old or having his son work in Ukraine, if we can't, like, get to the same reality, I don't know what we do. And so we just need a little bit of accountability in the country. I think we need a little bit of bipartisan work where it's possible to try to rebuild things. And we need politicians who will do actionable changes to get housing and zoning improved so people can own and afford houses and fix some of these, like, really simple stuff. I mean, war. War happens less on the back of ideological divide and oftentimes more on the back of economic crisis.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Right. I think. I mean, a lot of what you say is music to my ears. I mean, the mission of Jubilee, and I'm somebody who's been heavily involved in Jubilee, has always been to kind of find unlikely points of alignment between both sides of the political aisle. And like you said, that kind of pragmatism in politics sort of fueling that. But something that I wonder is, if. So the Trump corruption point, just to kind of respond to that. I agree with you. It's. And this came up in the Glenn Greenwald episode, you know, it's naked corruption. It's kind of hard to argue against because it's just so obvious, but yet people don't really seem to care. Trump's political brand, his. His effectiveness as a leader and as a populist is just so strong that it doesn't seem like those who voted for him, or at least a significant portion of them, are really willing to hold him accountable or push back on that. Yeah, And I have family members who support him, and I've had conversations with them, and again, they just are kind of like, I don't. I don't really care. So that makes me wonder if, you know, the move for the left, that. That pragmatic move is really to focus on governance rather than, I think, justice for this injustice that is happening. I wonder if that is the wrong way to go. But that doesn't seem to be a pill that most people on the left who hold power really want to swallow.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, I mean, we are seeing touches of it. We've got, you know, AOC has become like an increasing ultimate pragmatist. I've been really impressed with her career. We have Josh Shapiro, a highly pragmatic politician. I think the issue that we see in the Democrat space is we don't know who we are yet. There's a war. We're trying to decide it right now. And so I agree with you that a facelift of effective policy could go miles. Right. I think one of the things that's going to do Mamdani so well is that he is getting stuff done quickly and measurably. And people are seeing it, and people really need to see it. People are really frustrated by the lack of movement that I think we're experiencing in this country. I think the other thing that has to happen is a facelift for the Democrats. I think the reality is that, like, if I told you most people you're gonna go to a party and all of them are really staunch Democrats, most

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

people, including people who are, like, socially

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

left leaning, would be like, you know,

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

that sounds like a bad time. So we'd like, yeah.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

When did Democrats become so uncool? In my childhood, it was the total inverse.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

They're like, smoking weed.

[Host or interviewer]

I don't know.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

They just all became lawyers and got like, afraid of liability, I think.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

So they're like. Also has to be the this, like, media cultural revamp that I think, for example, socialists and communists have always been really good at. They're very populisty. They're very good at being chill and showing that they care about, like, the little guy. Whereas, you know, the liberals are more like, look, I care, but, like, we have to understand why liability is an issue.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

It's like, nobody wants to hear about liability and like, bureaucracy and balance of

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

power when 50% of their income goes to paying for, for rent for some like, shit apartment that they don't even like.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

Like, nobody wants to hear it.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

So, yeah, I think governance that's affecting change will do a lot for Democrats if they can, like, figure out how to do it. But part of I think how to do that is to get enough momentum and coalition behind them that they can get stuff done, which is just increasingly difficult in our kind of modern political landscape right now.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Well, Kyla, I appreciate you so much for coming on. My very, very last I heard aoc, I heard Josh Shapiro are the. Those would be your top two if you had to choose the face of the party in a couple years.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

I don't know. Josh is not very charismatic.

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

I think he's a great politician, but he's definitely not charismatic.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

VP material, maybe?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, I'm not sure. I honestly, I don't really care who's the face. I'm not going to lie. I just want effective policy.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

You must care, though. You must. It's such a huge. It's such a huge variable.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, but politicians are like hired grifters. I want a politician that reflects the populace. So, like, at a media level, I want the populace to get educated sufficiently that the politicians who represent us as good policy and whoever will grift to that the most effectively, I think would be great. I think Gavin Newsom's been doing a lot of bidding to try to show that he's more moderate now while still having his progressive background. I think Pete Buttigieg is really trying to be like, I know I'm gay, but forget about that. Think about how good I am at

[Co-host or secondary commentator]

rhetoric and stuff like that, you know,

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

and how good I am at policy. So I. I'd be. I'd be open to a lot of people. I don't even know if I have a favorite. I like a lot of people. Aoc, I think, has been clear. She's not gonna run anytime soon.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

Oh, really?

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Yeah, I think she's been. People have asked her about it a bunch and she's been pretty. Like, probably not. She's pretty young. I think she really wants to build up a bit more of her record, particularly with her bipartisan work. I think she wants to get a couple more years of bipartisan work under the belt before she makes a run for her federal office. Because she's obviously kind of got that communist back. Like, people accuse her being a communist in her younger years. So that's my suspicion of what's going on with her. But I like her policy a lot. I like Bernie. I've always been a Bernie bro. So my personal preference is like a Bernie type. But really, I'll take any politician that grifts to the right policy. I don't really care.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

All right, well, may the best grifter win. Kylie, I. I'm sure this won't be the last time we cross paths in this political space, but thank you so much for coming onto Surrounded and for doing a follow up.

[Kyla (guest, political commentator)]

Thanks for hosting me and letting me app. I appreciate it.

[Host (possibly Jubilee host or interviewer)]

If you want to see more follow up episodes of Surrounded, be sure to like leave us a positive review. Comment if you're watching the video on YouTube, you can subscribe to Tubilee, Jubilee's second channel. You can also subscribe to Jubilee to see full Surrounded episodes. But however you want to support us, just thank you so much for listening. Remember, you could be wrong, so could I. Keep your mind open until next time.