Surrounded Podcast: "Is Jordan Peterson Actually a Christian? | Surrounded Follow Up"

Release Date: June 1, 2025

Introduction

In this follow-up episode of Surrounded, hosted by John Regolato from Jubilee Media, the discussion delves deeper into the enigmatic persona of Jordan Peterson. Although Peterson himself couldn't join the conversation, three individuals who have previously debated him—Cade, Danny, and Zena—share their unique encounters and perspectives. This episode seeks to unravel whether Jordan Peterson truly identifies as a Christian by exploring these firsthand experiences.

Cade’s Journey: From Priesthood to Atheism

Cade introduces his background and evolution in belief systems.

• Background and Early Faith ([02:00]):

  • Cade recounts growing up in the liberal suburbs of Minneapolis, recognizing his gay identity from a young age but struggling with comfort within his faith.
  • He was deeply immersed in Catholicism, attending mass multiple times daily and aspiring to become a cloistered monastic monk.

• Influence of Jordan Peterson ([02:59]):

  • Cade discovered Peterson’s work around 2015-2016, initially aligning with conservative viewpoints influenced by Peterson's debates, notably the Cathy Newman interview.
  • Reading Peterson’s Maps of Meaning was pivotal, leading Cade to deconstruct his religious beliefs and transition towards atheism.

• Debate Encounter with Peterson ([04:16]—[07:07]):

  • Cade initiated a debate with Peterson, challenging the assertion that atheists don’t understand what they reject.
  • Notable Exchange:
    • Cade ([05:07]): “I wasn't offended... I knew it'd be the perfect person to sit down and talk to him first because I was more religious than him.”
    • Peterson ([06:08]): “Well, you obviously feel that you missed something when you were practicing for the priesthood...”
  • Cade interprets Peterson’s vague response as a dismissive tactic, akin to a "no true Scotsman" fallacy, which left him questioning what might have been missing in his religious pursuit.

• Personal Reflection ([07:32]—[08:00]):

  • Cade describes his emotional detachment during debates, stemming from a secure sense of self after leaving religion.
  • He highlights replacing religious structures with communities like ultramarathons, finding peace and camaraderie without dogmas.

Danny’s Confrontation: Challenging Peterson’s Faith

Danny shares a more intense and personal debate experience with Peterson.

• Initial Interaction ([16:26]—[22:17]):

  • Danny confronts Peterson with a direct question: “You’re a Christian or you’re not. Which one is it?” prompting Peterson to respond ambiguously.
  • Notable Exchange:
    • Danny ([25:39]): “You’re really quite nothing. Right. You’re not a Christian.”
    • Peterson ([25:44]): “I’m done with him.”
  • This candid confrontation led to a memorable clip circulated online, sparking varied interpretations among audiences.

• Post-Debate Reflections ([22:58]—[32:00]):

  • Danny expresses exhaustion from the heated exchange but maintains respect for Peterson's accomplishments.
  • He discusses the intricacies of labeling the debate format and criticizes Peterson’s chosen prompts as irrelevant to atheism's validity.
  • Personal Impact:
    • Danny reveals his history of reconciling his Catholic upbringing with his atheism, emphasizing that his departure from faith was not marred by deep emotional trauma.
    • Quote ([32:00]): “I was born again as an atheist. I feel like a different person.”

• Emotional and Social Implications ([33:08]—[36:35]):

  • The debate had significant personal repercussions for Danny, though he portrays a positive outlook post-deconstruction.
  • He highlights the supportive relationship with his parents, despite their differing religious beliefs.
  • Quote ([35:50]): “Somehow, the first and second century of early Christianity... I feel like the early Christians just don’t match what Peterson is talking about.”

Zena’s Analytical Approach: Pushing Peterson’s Framework

Zena offers a methodical and inquisitive perspective in her debate with Peterson.

• Personal Background and Motivation ([48:39]—[49:56]):

  • Raised in a Christian household with Nigerian roots, Zena developed a penchant for questioning established ideologies, leading her to agnosticism.
  • She emphasizes the importance of intellectual honesty and continuous inquiry in her belief system.

• Debate Dynamics with Peterson ([38:10]—[45:24]):

  • Zena meticulously prepares by studying Peterson’s work, allowing her to engage deeply with his concepts.
  • Notable Exchange:
    • Zena ([38:26]): “How do you define worship?”
    • Peterson ([38:29]): “Prioritize, prioritize.”
    • Zena ([40:27]): “At the bottom is God and every... there can be multiple people with different conceptions of God...”
  • She challenges Peterson’s framework by questioning the validity and universality of his definitions, pushing him to acknowledge the limitations of his own understanding.

• Assessing Peterson’s Framework ([41:49]—[45:24]):

  • Zena confronts Peterson with doubts about the factual basis of Biblical events and how they influence belief systems.
  • Quote ([41:49]): “We cannot say that we know whether or not certain historical facts in the Bible happen...”
  • Her approach reveals potential gaps in Peterson’s philosophy, leading to Peterson acknowledging the challenges in his framework.

Host and Guests’ Reflections: Navigating Complex Debates

John Regolato and the guests discuss the broader implications of their interactions with Jordan Peterson.

• Emotional Reactions and Personal Growth ([07:32]—[36:35]):

  • The guests reflect on maintaining composure during intense debates, acknowledging the personal transformations ensuing from these interactions.
  • Cade and Danny discuss the balance between vigorous debate and emotional detachment, while Zena emphasizes the importance of structured inquiry.

• The Nature of Peterson’s Debates ([43:02]—[52:45]):

  • The conversations highlight Peterson’s debating style, which often involves pivoting questions and avoiding direct admissions, challenging the debaters to push beyond superficial arguments.
  • Quote ([43:37]): “That’s why I picked you. You ask intelligent questions.”

• Impact on Belief Systems and Community ([32:00]—[33:36]):

  • The guests discuss how their debates with Peterson have influenced their understanding of faith, community, and personal identity.
  • They underscore the value of community outside religious dogmas, finding solace in shared human experiences rather than structured belief systems.

Conclusion

John Regolato wraps up the episode by commending Cade, Danny, and Zena for their articulate and thoughtful participation. Emphasizing Jubilee Media’s commitment to fostering meaningful and empathetic conversations, he encourages listeners to subscribe and engage with the community. The episode underscores the complexity of personal belief systems and the profound impact that rigorous, respectful debate can have on individual understanding and societal discourse.

Notable Quotes:

• Cade on Deconstruction ([04:00]): “Everything about religion, good and bad, is a construction of the human condition.”
• Danny on Debate Clip ([25:39]): “You’re really quite nothing... You’re not a Christian.”
• Zena on Worship Definition ([38:28]): “So almost like having a preference over. So whatever you’re attending to, you’re worshiping.”
• Cade on Atheism ([35:50]): “Violin music... all of these are constructions... without God as the cause.”
• Danny on Personal Evolution ([33:36]): “I was born again as an atheist. Right. Like, I feel like a different person.”

This episode of Surrounded offers a nuanced exploration of Jordan Peterson’s religious affiliations through the lenses of individuals who have engaged with him directly. By presenting diverse experiences and thoughtful reflections, the podcast fosters a deeper understanding of faith, atheism, and the intricate dynamics of intellectual debate.