Surrounded Podcast Summary

Episode: Is There Only One Way to Read the Bible? | Surrounded Follow-Up w/ Allie Beth Stuckey
Host: John Regolato, Jubilee Media
Guest: Allie Beth Stuckey
Date: October 19, 2025

Overview of the Episode

This follow-up episode of Surrounded brings conservative Christian commentator and author Allie Beth Stuckey back to debrief her experience facing off against 20 liberal Christians on the show. Host John Regolato leads a probing conversation about polarizing Christian issues, including biblical authority, abortion, empathy, LGBTQ inclusion, and the evolving place of Christianity in American culture. The discussion dives into what it means to bring faith-based convictions into public life, the interpretive battles over scripture, and how empathy—and its potential limits—shapes contemporary debates. Allie reflects on nuanced disagreements, personal struggles with faith, and the emotional aftermath of recent public tragedies, including the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Expectations and Reflections on the Surrounded Debate (02:06–03:53)

• Allie Beth Stuckey shares initial nervousness entering the debate, recalling advice from the late Charlie Kirk about the intensity of Jubilee’s format.
• She’s surprised by the kindness of participants, setting a foundation for meaningful dialogue despite fundamental disagreements.
• Quote:
  "I want to be as compassionate, disarmingly compassionate as possible without compromising at all. But honestly, the participants also disarmed me with their kindness." (02:53, Allie Beth Stuckey)
• Both sides showed each other unexpected tenderness, demonstrating the potential for connection even in heated disagreement.

2. Abortion, Law, and the Christian Moral Framework (03:53–10:09)

• Debate with Angie centers on whether laws should reflect personal moral beliefs, especially with abortion.
  • Angie: Laws should not enforce personal religious claims.
  • Kyle: All laws inherently enforce someone's beliefs.
  • Allie asserts that both sides bring their morality into law; neutrality is a myth.
  • Quote:
    "There is no such thing as some neutral law. We are all bringing the fullness of our belief system to the table and let the best idea win." (06:25, Allie Beth Stuckey)
• Discussion of America’s founding principles and the concept of God-given rights as fundamental to the Constitution.
• Allie worries about the loss of shared moral foundation, referencing John Adams:
  "Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is utterly inappropriate and just insufficient for any other kind of people." (09:00, paraphrased)
• The essence of the abortion debate shifts from "what is a human" to "what is a person" and the grave importance of being on the “right side” of that question.

3. Interpreting Old Testament Violence and the Nature of God (13:25–16:46)

• John asks how Christians reconcile God's Old Testament actions (e.g., the death of Egyptian firstborns) with New Testament teachings of love and mercy.
• Allie’s approach: She admits she doesn’t have all the answers. Argues that God’s actions point to his ultimate purpose—redemption through Jesus.
• Quote:
  "We are not prescribed to do everything that God does. We are not permitted to do everything that God does. We are not even given the ability to understand everything that God does." (14:23, Allie Beth Stuckey)
• She frames Old Testament brutality as foreshadowing Jesus’ ultimate sacrifice.

4. Toxic Empathy, Moral Boundaries, and Gender Identity (17:46–24:18)

• The concept of “toxic empathy” is explored:
  • Allie: Empathy turns toxic when used to affirm things contrary to truth or scripture, e.g., affirming a transgender identity.
  • Comparison to issues like depression: In those cases, you address the mind, not affirm the disorder. She critiques the inconsistency in approaches to empathy and mental health.
• Quote:
  "Christianity doesn't denigrate the body... Our bodies tell us a really important part of who we are." (20:16, Allie Beth Stuckey)
• Allie distinguishes between feeling with/for someone and being compelled to affirm falsehoods because of those feelings.
  • Love, she argues, is always intertwined with truth; empathy isn’t inherently virtuous.

5. Empathy, Polarization, and the Influence of Algorithms (27:36–33:13)

• John (audience member) argues culture needs more empathy, not less, highlighting polarization by algorithmic content.
• Allie counters that empathy, untethered from truth, justifies harmful policies and enflames out-group hostility.
• Quote:
  "The more highly someone scores on empathy, the crueler they are to the out group... That's the problem with being led by empathy—it is always competing against someone on the other side." (25:15, summarizing Paul Bloom, Allie Beth Stuckey)
• They discuss the echo chamber effect and how misperceptions escalate extremism.
  • Example: The varied online reactions to Charlie Kirk’s assassination.
  • Allie: Conservatives more often confront opposing worldviews than liberals due to media/cultural exposure.

6. Forgiveness at Charlie Kirk’s Memorial: Empathy vs. Love (32:24–35:19)

• John highlights public forgiveness by Charlie Kirk’s widow, Erica, as an example of radical empathy.
• Allie disagrees:
  "What she did is so much more powerful than empathy... Christ calls me to love that person, not because I feel how they feel, but because they're made in God's image and because Christ died for them." (33:25, Allie Beth Stuckey)
• She sees forgiveness driven by Christian love—not empathy—as a higher virtue.

7. Progressivism vs. Christianity: Can Truth Evolve? (37:05–41:55)

• Allie and Danny debate if truth and morality evolve with culture (“progressivism”) or if they are fixed (orthodox Christianity).
• Danny champions humility and contextual reading of scripture, acknowledging human fallibility and the Bible’s misuse throughout history (e.g., slavery).
• Allie stands by the possibility of one “correct interpretation” even as humans are fail-prone; God’s word itself, she insists, doesn’t change.
• Discussion Point: The tension between humility in interpretation and exercising doctrinal authority.

8. Wrestling With Doubt and God’s Plan Amid Suffering (41:55–45:55)

• John asks Allie about her own faith struggles.
• Allie admits grappling with suffering of children and evil in the world as the hardest issue.
• She finds hope in the promise of ultimate justice—that Christ will return, evil will be vanquished, and every wrong will be righted.
• Quote:
  "A faith without doubt is like a body without antibodies. It's really important for us to have doubts..." (45:30, quoting Tim Keller via Allie Beth Stuckey)

9. The Damage of Church Stance on Same-Sex Marriage (46:23–49:04)

• Gilbert claims the church’s condemnation of same-sex marriage causes damage and suffering for LGBTQ individuals, citing mental health disparities.
• Allie is compassionate but firm: sees marriage as a fixed biblical model—male and female—mirroring Christ and the church.
• Acknowledges the emotional weight of the disagreement, affirms the importance of dialogue, and wishes well for those with whom she disagrees.

10. Is Peaceful Coexistence Possible Amid Intractable Disagreements? (49:04–51:35)

• Allie hopes for more civil, empathetic conversations but is candid that she won’t compromise core convictions.
• Clarifies that loving someone doesn’t require affirming all their choices.
• Quote:
  "You cannot mistake my refusal to affirm your decisions and your stated identity as hate or as bigotry... Don't confuse love and affirmation." (51:39, Allie Beth Stuckey)

11. Sacrifice and Faith: Personal Reflections (53:08–55:57)

• John asks Allie about the biggest sacrifices she’s made for her faith.
• Allie shares anecdotes about professional limitations—refusing to preach to mixed congregations or take certain platforms because of her biblical convictions on female leadership.
• Admits the difficulty of calling others (e.g., gay Christians) to celibacy, recognizing the burden even while standing firm on doctrine.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “There is no such thing as some neutral law. We are all bringing the fullness of our belief system to the table and let the best idea win.”
  — Allie Beth Stuckey (06:25)

• “We are not permitted to do everything that God does. We are not even given the ability to understand everything that God does.”
  — Allie Beth Stuckey (14:23)

• “Love is always inextricably intertwined with the truth, that you can't love someone and lie to them.”
  — Allie Beth Stuckey (26:40)

• “The more highly someone scores on empathy, the crueler they are to the out group.”
  — Allie Beth Stuckey (25:15, referencing Paul Bloom)

• “What she did is so much more powerful than empathy... Christ calls me to something higher than just feeling how someone feels.”
  — Allie Beth Stuckey (33:13, on Erica Kirk’s forgiveness)

• “A faith without doubt is like a body without antibodies.”
  — Tim Keller, quoted by Allie Beth Stuckey (45:30)

• “You cannot mistake my refusal to affirm your decisions and your stated identity as hate or as bigotry... Don't confuse love and affirmation.”
  — Allie Beth Stuckey (51:39)

Useful Timestamps

• Expectations & Episode Reflections: 02:06–03:53
• Abortion & Law: 03:53–10:09
• Old Testament Violence: 13:25–16:46
• Toxic Empathy & Gender: 17:46–24:18
• Empathy, Polarization, Algorithms: 27:36–33:13
• Forgiveness & Love: 32:24–35:19
• Progressivism & Bible: 37:05–41:55
• Wrestling with Doubt: 41:55–45:55
• LGBTQ & the Church: 46:23–49:04
• Peaceful Coexistence?: 49:04–51:35
• Personal Sacrifice: 53:08–55:57

Closing Tone

The conversation is candid, respectful, intellectually engaged, and emotionally charged—reflecting deep convictions and a genuine effort to understand others without papering over real divisions. Allie Beth Stuckey models clarity, warmth, and unapologetic commitment to her faith, even as she acknowledges uncertainty and pain, particularly around suffering and human difference. The episode offers a window into the sincere wrestling taking place within the Christian community as it navigates centuries-old doctrines amid rapidly changing cultural and moral landscapes.