James Talarico vs 20 Undecided Voters

Summary

Podcast Summary: Surrounded – James Talarico vs 20 Undecided Voters

Podcast: Surrounded by Jubilee Media
Episode: James Talarico vs 20 Undecided Voters
Date: December 14, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of Surrounded, Texas state representative and U.S. Senate candidate James Talarico takes the hot seat, debating 20 undecided Texas voters—one-on-one—on topics from healthcare and social safety nets to immigration, voting, and whether the country’s divide is left vs. right or "top vs. bottom." The format is high-pressure: voters tag in and out, seeking honest answers and policy clarity. The conversation is spirited, pressing Talarico for specifics while exploring deep divides in Texas and national politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Social Programs: Healthcare, Food Assistance & Welfare

• Claim: Cuts to healthcare and food assistance hurt everyone—not just the direct recipients.

• Talarico’s View: Social safety nets are both a moral and practical good; cuts raise costs and worsen life for all.

  • “My faith teaches me to love my neighbor as myself... we're interconnected. What impacts any of us directly, impacts all of us indirectly.” (02:27 - Talarico)
  • Argues that media sensationalizes rare abuses (“welfare queens”) to undermine programs.
  • Fraud in SNAP/Medicaid “shockingly low” but corporate abuse/welfare is rampant (04:12, 06:01).
  • Advocates for a hand up, not a handout: “Even my brightest students couldn’t pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they didn’t have boots. That’s what I’m trying to fix.” (04:12)

• Undecided Voters Push Back:

  • Concern for system abusers, culture of dependency.
  • Debate whether government charity displaces personal responsibility.
  • One voter: “When you talk about food stamps and healthcare... how do you balance that? ...How do you prevent people from taking advantage?” (04:12)
  • Talarico: Systemic abuse is overstated, and investments empower productivity rather than discourage ambition.

• Policy Ideas:

  • Push for a public healthcare option, lowering costs and introducing competition (11:59).
  • Realistic about pace of reform - “I can’t transform this system overnight... progress is too slow, but real.” (13:10)
  • Civics/financial literacy education (51:41, 89:34).

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2. Immigration: Security, Opportunity, and Identity

• Claim: Immigrants make America stronger and richer.

• Talarico’s View:

  • Border metaphor: “Southern border should be like our front porch—a giant welcome mat and a lock on the door.” (23:25)
  • Admits both parties (including Biden) have failed at comprehensive reform—calls out Biden and Trump (25:04).
  • Links immigrants to Social Security solvency and economic growth: “Undocumented people pay into Social Security ...they don’t take any benefits in return.” (29:25)
  • Emphasizes compassion for long-term undocumented residents: path to “compliance,” not amnesty (34:23-35:57).
  • Points out “immigrants do jobs native-born Americans won’t,” and many become entrepreneurs (48:47).

• Undecided Voters' Concerns:

  • Assimilation vs. cultural pluralism; some argue for stricter borders/citizenship process (27:06-28:39).
  • Fear resources for native communities (foundational Black/White Americans) are stretched thin by immigrant influx (43:34).
  • Worry about policy gaming: “Why would other people take the better route...and actually apply for a visa?” (40:20)
  • Demand details on reform: “There needs to be some process...what’s the process look like?” (30:43, 32:17)

• Expert Input:

  • Immigration attorney outlines complexity, fairness for those in visa queues, DACA/DAPA, family separation, and real consequences of enforcement policy (36:41-41:41).

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3. Voting, Political Power, and Disillusionment

• Claim: Your vote matters in 2026.

• Talarico’s View:

  • Acknowledges system is rigged, corrupt, and slow, but says: “The only way out of it, is through you...the people around this circle, not me.” (57:09)
  • Highlights voting suppression as evidence of its impact (“Voter suppression is proof your vote has tremendous power.” 64:33)
  • Champions structural reforms: For the People Act, banning gerrymandering, getting money out of politics (54:45, 84:59).
  • Emphasizes need for civics education, voter engagement, and organizing (51:41-62:07).

• Voters Push Back:

  • Skepticism due to corporate money, gerrymandering, and political polarization—“Politicians will not save us. The people...will.” (57:09)
  • Some voice they’ll opt out (“I’m wasting my time...a bunch of sheep zombies controlled by advertisements...” 97:41).
  • Others are swayed to stay engaged, looking for detailed plans and accountability over charisma alone (98:17-98:56).

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4. Economic Inequality: “Top vs. Bottom”

• Claim: The real political divide is “top versus bottom,” not left versus right.

• Talarico’s View:

  • Blames billionaire influence—on both sides—for economic and political dysfunction.
    • “Three dudes—Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos—now own more wealth than 165 million Americans combined.” (75:47)
  • Argues billionaires use media, algorithms to stoke division for profit, distracting from their “picking our pockets.”
  • Advocates for stricter campaign finance laws, transparency, and ending lobbying/Super PACs (74:36, 85:02).
  • Recalls U.S. history: “Top marginal tax rate was 90% in the '60s; now it's 37%.” (77:22)
  • Pushes for targeting only the ultra-wealthy, not small business owners or the upper middle class (79:01-79:46).

• Voters' Counterpoints:

  • Some say ideology, not class, is the real source of polarization (71:01).
  • Doubt that limiting billionaire influence will lead to systemic change without reforming other aspects (education, opportunity).
  • Others point out need for education on entrepreneurship, business skills, not just redistribution (87:12-89:34).

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5. Gun Violence in Texas

• Claim (Posed by Voter): No matter how much gun violence occurs, there will never be gun reform in Texas.
• Talarico’s View:
  • Tells emotional story of Uvalde shooting, parents advocacy for change.
  • Argues that while change is slow, organizing can move the needle, citing two Republican lawmakers who switched votes after conversations with Uvalde families (91:17-93:22).
  • Has a “100% gun safety voting record,” supports background checks, raising age limits, closing gun show loopholes.
  • Identifies NRA/big money as main obstacle to reform: “The reason we can’t [enact reform] is because the NRA has bought too many politicians.” (95:02)
  • Frames the challenge as less about ideology, more about special interest power (96:18).
• Voters’ Frustration: See endless delay, fear another Uvalde (94:38), want action not just words.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Talarico on Faith & Public Service:
  “Jesus didn’t tell us to love our immediate family members...He told us to love our neighbors. And then he specifically went further and defined neighbor as someone who’s very different from us.” (06:01)

• On Systemic Inequality:
  “We rise and fall together. They want tax dollars going to billionaires that own the media so they can get even more wealth.” (03:16)

• On Political Fatigue:
  “There are some days when I’m on the floor...and I lose that fight...I’ll just feel totally and utterly defeated. And so I can’t imagine how someone on the outside must feel when they look at this political system.” (56:49)

• On Generational Wealth:
  “90% of baby boomers made more money than their parents. For millennials? 50%... It’s even lower for Gen Z. The American dream is out of reach.” (87:26-87:37)

• On Grassroots Power:
  “Big money is powerful...but it is nothing compared to people power. We may not have the money, but we have the majority.” (54:07)

• On Gun Reform Obstacles:
  “The vast majority of Texans and Americans want these commonsense gun safety rules...The reason we can’t is because the NRA has bought too many politicians.” (95:02)

• Notable Voter Retorts:

  • “I don’t think you’re going to do anything. Drain the swamp...until they get voted, then they’re just rich people swimming in the swamp.” (00:01, 54:00)
  • “Politicians contribute....We don’t want those people voting.” (52:45)
  • “We've heard it all before, and I feel like I’ve been hearing it for 20 years.” (56:38)

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Important Timestamps by Key Topics

• Healthcare, Social Programs: 02:24–16:18
• Immigration: 23:25–48:51
• Voting, Representation, Political Power: 49:21–68:33
• Economic Divide, Money in Politics: 70:03–90:36
• Gun Violence / Gun Reform: 91:00–96:59
• Listener Reactions / Closing Thoughts: 97:04–98:56

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Tone & Takeaways

• Open, Candid, and Sometimes Contentious: The conversation is raw, featuring hard questions and emotional testimony. Talarico’s tone emphasizes empathy and realism—acknowledges limits, yet seeks change.
• Policy Over Platitude: Listeners and voters push back on generalities: “I want specifics, not general promises!” Demanding details is a recurring challenge.
• Reciprocal Frustration: Both Talarico and several voters express genuine disillusionment with the pace of change, the two-party system, and big money in politics.
• Moments of Hope: The show closes with a sense of possibility that direct conversation can bridge divides, even if systemic overhaul remains daunting.

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Conclusion

James Talarico’s appearance on Surrounded spotlights both the hunger for honest, specific answers in politics and the deep skepticism among voters about the ability of any one candidate—or party—to deliver transformative change. Through tough questions, brave admissions, and emotional moments, the episode reflects modern American politics in microcosm: fractured, yet reaching for solutions, and ultimately reminding voters that the fight for progress and representation is ongoing, and it’s theirs to claim.

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Transcript

[James Talarico]

Hey, listeners, just want to remind you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

We have episodes of the Pod coming out every Sunday, so please consider subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for your support. Honestly, James, I don't think you're going to do anything. We've heard it before, you know, drain the swamp, eat the rich until they get voted and then they're just rich people swimming in the swamp.

[James Talarico]

Here's where I agree with you. We need way more investment in our communities here in America. How? It's why I fight.

[Undecided Voter 1]

How?

[James Talarico]

It's why I fight for.

[Undecided Voter 1]

How do we need to invest in those communities?

[James Talarico]

Yeah. Barbara Jordan, a great Texan, she said, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. And so the argument I'm making with this claim is if young people in particular aren't at the table in this election, we will continue to be on the menu in 2027. From Jubilee Media, this is the Surrounded podcast where one brave soul faces a.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Room full of disagreers. In the center of this special episode.

[James Talarico]

Is the Texas senatorial race candidate James Talarico.

[Undecided Voter 1]

He will be facing 20 undecided Texas voters.

[James Talarico]

James will debate them one on one until they're voted out by their peers and replace replaced by someone new.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Let's get into it.

[James Talarico]

Ford BlueCruise Hands Free highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel, allowing you to relax and reconnect.

[Undecided Voter 2]

While also staying in control.

[James Talarico]

Enjoy the drive in BlueCruise enabled vehicles like the F150 Explorer and Mustang Mach E available feature on equipped vehicles. Terms apply. Does not replace safe driving. See Ford.com BlueCruise for more details.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Every drop of Jack Daniels is mellowed through sugar maple charcoal, giving Jack its smooth taste. That's what makes Jack Jack.

[James Talarico]

Please drink responsibly. Jack Daniels and old number seven are registered trademarks. Tennessee Whiskey 40 alcohol by volume. Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. My name is James Talarico. I'm a Texas state representative, former middle school teacher and Presbyterian seminarian running for the US Senate to take power back for working people. And I'm surrounded by 25 undecided voters here in the great state of Texas. My first claim is that cuts to healthcare and food assistance hurt all of us. Hi.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Hi.

[James Talarico]

James Daniel?

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yes.

[James Talarico]

So nice to meet you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Nice to meet you as well.

[James Talarico]

My faith teaches me to love my neighbor as myself. In fact, all the major world religions teach something similar. That we should treat others as we want to be treated. The Golden Rule. I think all of these ancient Wisdom traditions are hitting on the same truth, which is that we're interconnected, that what impacts any of us directly, impacts all of us indirectly. We are a social species. We rise and fall together. And I think that's particularly true in health care and food assistance because The Republicans in D.C. are trying to raise premiums on some Americans that will end up raising premiums on all of us. Right now they're cutting food assistance for hungry kids and working parents that's going to end up raising grocery prices for all of us. And so they may think that they're just attacking some Americans, but in fact they're attacking all Americans.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I want to focus on the religious aspect because I agree have a very Christian background.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

But if you look at major religions, including Christianity, it is not a focus on a political system. It's a focus on individual responsibility. And when the political system takes away the individual responsibility and says, don't worry, the government's going to take care of you, you are absolutely going to catch people who need that. And it's a, it's a hand up and it helps them, but you're also going to take away from the individual responsibility which is needed to get out of those situations. So when you talk about food stamps and healthcare and helping, how do you balance that? Because I haven't heard a good Democratic argument of great, let's help people. But how are you. There are nasty people, there are welfare queens, There are nasty people who take advantage of the system and take away from those who earned it, take away from those who need it. So how are you going to take that into account? How are you going to make sure we cover that risk as well?

[James Talarico]

The biggest welfare queens in this country are the giant corporations that don't pay a penny in federal taxes. The biggest welfare queens are the CEOs who get a tax deduction for flying on a private jet. It's not hungry kids, it's not working parents who work multiple jobs to provide for their families. I agree with you that we need individual responsibility. And I don't want to create a culture of dependency. I want a hand up and not a handout. You know, I believe that you don't give a man to fish, you teach a man to fish. But if you're going to take your friend out on a boat for the day to teach him how to fish, you want to make sure he had breakfast that morning. You want to make sure he's not sick because that allows him to learn how to fish again. I was a public school teacher, so I saw how when kids showed up hungry, they couldn't learn that day. Even my brightest students, even my hardest working students couldn't succeed, couldn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they didn't have boots. That's what I'm trying to fix. In this country. We don't want dependency, we want to reward hard work. And I think that should apply to those billionaires, not just working people.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I'm going to push back. So I agree with a lot of what you said. Yeah, but the issue is how do you prevent people from taking advantage of the system? Because, and I'm not going to say that like we would agree that in any kind of welfare system or any kind of age, you have a population of people who need it, who use it to better themselves and better those around you. You also have a population of those who abuse it. And because it's there, it's harmful to them because they're uninspired to live up to their potential and it's harmful to everyone else because they're a leech on society. And we could, I think generally we would disagree on the percentage of how much is this group and how much is that group. That's okay. But how do we prevent this group from taking advantage not only of those of us who are hardworking and make a good amount of money, but those that really need the aid, who get a bad reputation because of these shitheads over here?

[James Talarico]

So this has actually been studied. And the fraud rates for snap, the food assistance program, and for Medicaid are shockingly low. And what happens here is the corporate media, they try to pick out some rare case and they blow it up. They sensationalize it because they want to discredit these programs because they don't want tax dollars going to help feed hungry kids. They want tax dollars going to billionaires that own the media so they can get even more wealth. I wanted to go back to something you said because we're both people of faith, both Christians, it sounds like. I completely agree with you that everyone has a personal moral responsibility to do right, to do good, to better themselves. But I'll also just say we also have a responsibility to our neighbors, to our community. And in fact, so much of our tradition comes out of the Jewish tradition, which is all about a covenant, a community of people, not singular individuals, but us as a community, us as a covenant. Jesus didn't tell us to love our immediate family members. Jesus didn't tell us to love our close friends. Those probably would have been easier commandments to follow. He told us to love our neighbors. And then he specifically went further and defined neighbor as someone who's very different from us. And that is an inherently a public thing. Loving your neighbors is something you do out in public. It's why my faith motivates me to do public service first as a public school teacher, now as a public official. And so I just want to hold both of those two things together, because there's absolutely a role for individual responsibility and individual choices, but there's also responsibility to others and to the community. Both those things can be true at the same time. All right, pause.

[Undecided Voter 2]

You've been voted out by the majority.

[James Talarico]

You did a great job. Yeah, it's so nice to meet you. Hey, Stephane. So nice to meet you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Nice to meet you. On its face, what you're saying, cuts to healthcare, cuts to food assistance hurts all of us. Sounds good. But if you look at it at the inverse, increases to healthcare and increases to food assistance doesn't help all of us. And the reason why is we have a bloated healthcare system where a lot of the money that goes into it gets accrued to the intermediaries, the companies delivering these services, the consultant class. A lot of fraud happens. I mean, we have a current member of the Senate, not in Texas, but in the US who defrauded millions of people out of Medicare benefits and the like. So one of the things that I worry about is when we're talking about restoring the money that's been cut is how is it going to be used effectively? So I'm not against having more health care to more people. What I'm against is that money being used inappropriately. And you talk about the wealthy, the top versus bottom. This is a system that actually makes more people poor and the fewer that are really rich richer because it gives more opportunities for money to be sucked out of the system and accrued into fewer hands. So not necessarily serving more people. So that's why I hesitate to agree that necessarily cutting healthcare, cutting food assistance is necessarily hurting all of us. Maybe it's probably hurting the rich more than it is hurting most of us.

[James Talarico]

Well, you were preaching to the choir. I think we've got to transform this healthcare system from the bottom up. Most other countries around the world have figured out how to provide quality health care at lower costs for more people. We're the only rich country that hasn't figured this out because we have giant health insurance companies leeching the life out of our health care system. And so I absolutely agree with you. If we're cutting some of those profit margins for these giant health care companies. I'm all for it, but that's not what's being proposed in Washington right now. That big ugly bill is going to kick millions of Texans off their health care right now. This government shutdown is all about the Republicans trying to raise premiums on working people. Those folks who can no longer afford to pay those higher premiums, they're going to drop their health insurance. Those folks are no longer going to get their screenings. They're no longer to get their checkups. They're going to wait. Things are going to get worse, they're going to get sicker. And then where will they go? To the emergency room. And who pays for that? Me and you. It's going to raise our property taxes here in Texas for indigent care at the county level. We all pay for that. And it is so much more expensive on the back end than it is on the front end. We end up saving money if we invest in preventative care on the front end. And so that's my point with this claim, is that we're all interconnected. What hurts some of us ends up hurting all of us. And when we're all better off, we're all better off. Same with the food assistance cuts, cutting SNAP benefits for hungry kids and working parents. It disrupts the entire supply chain in our economy, from ranchers and farmers here in Texas to distributors and truck drivers to grocery stores like heb. And when supply goes down, prices go up. So because The Republicans in D.C. are cutting food assistance for poor folks, it's now going to make grocery store prices even more expensive for everybody. So if we make the decision to invest in our neighbors, to love our neighbors through good public policy, even when we're open to reform and fixing these broken systems, it's actually going to make us all healthier. It's going to make us all safer. It's going to make us all richer.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I mean, that sounds really good. The only thing that I'm sort of hearing coming from your answer is it's an acceptable cost or benefit to give more money to the intermediaries if it's giving more people health care. And that's where I continue to sort of hesitate.

[James Talarico]

Let me give you a solution that could, that could address this. I'm for a public option. I'm for allowing anyone in the state of Texas, anyone in America to sign up for Medicare to be able to access high quality, low cost health care. I think when we do that, you're going to see Folks who are in terrible health care plans flee and join this public option. It creates competition in the market. It creates choice. It creates opportunities for people to decide what's best for themselves and their families. So I am not satisfied with this healthcare system. Please do not misunderstand me. We need transformational change when it comes to healthcare in this country because I believe healthcare is a human right and it shouldn't depend on how much money you make or how much money your parents make. We all are entitled to high quality, low cost, affordable healthcare.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Why instead of reform, not just completely dismantle and start from scratch? Because to me, cutting or reforming has not worked. In the last 20, 30, 40 years, there's been incremental changes around the corners and none of that has worked. To me, the solution is a complete reworking of the entire system. So any sort of reform to me does not do the job, does not go far enough.

[James Talarico]

I'm completely for holistic reform and reworking of the system. As a legislator over four terms in the state capitol, I've realized how difficult it is to make change. I've got big dreams for this state and for this country. But I'm also very realistic on what I can promise as a candidate for office. And I don't want to sit here and tell you that I can transform this system overnight. I can't. What I can do is adopt some actual reforms that'll help provide more health care to more people. And you've said that we haven't seen the system get better. I want to push back on that because when the Affordable Care act was passed, we suddenly saw health insurance companies no longer able to deny Americans coverage for preexisting conditions. We saw that young people could stay on their parents plan until they're 26. We have seen progress. It's too slow. It's unacceptably slow. The only way that's going to change is if you and the people around this circle take more ownership of this democratic process. Not just voting, but running for office yourselves, supporting candidates, organizing Protestants. That's how we can speed up the pace of change, which I desperately hope we can do because people are counting on it.

[Undecided Voter 2]

All right, pause.

[James Talarico]

You've been voted out by the majority. Great job. Yeah. Hi, Brandon, So nice to meet you. Yeah, pleasure.

[Undecided Voter 1]

So I agree with your sentiment. However, what I've seen over the last two weeks or so. I live in East Texas, so when the SNAP benefits were being cut, I made a post on a Facebook group out in our area and it received more love and support than I've seen through communities. So I think that I agree that the benefits being cut is a very, very bad thing, that we should definitely be doing everything we can to help the people who are in need. But it's also shown me that the indomitable spirit of the American will come together and rescue the people that really need the help, you know, at that time.

[James Talarico]

So I totally agree.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yeah.

[James Talarico]

And in fact, you know, I'm running for U.S. senate. We have 8,000 people who have signed up to volunteer for the campaign, which is great. As a politician, you always want to have people volunteering. But when these food assistance programs were cut, we decided to channel all of that volunteer energy away from our campaign and into food banks all over the state of Texas. We had a bunch of Team Talarico volunteers at the San Antonio and Houston food bank helping to make sure that we were taking care of our neighbors. I'm trying to go a little further with this claim and say not only is it the right thing to do, it's also the smart thing to do. Because when we cut these programs that provide a lifeline to our neighbors who are struggling, it ends up allowing them to be more productive. It allows them to give their gift. I believe every person is made in the image of God. Every person has something unique to give this world. And when we make sure that everyone has enough to eat, we make sure everybody is healthy, people are able to give that gift, and that ends up benefiting all of us. I really do believe that the next great business idea is trapped in the mind of a kid in poverty on the west side of San Antonio.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I think the scary part for me is that what we're witnessing right now is that these programs that are designed to help people and designed to help further our communities can be used as weapons, as threats that if this bill doesn't get passed, going to cut, you know, we're going to cut healthcare, we're going to cut, you know, funding for food for children. I mean, my problem is that there's so much partisanship in politics now where it feels like the politicians that we have in office right now don't necessarily care what the issue is. They just care about the outcome, which is my party wins, the other team loses. So what would be your plan to.

[James Talarico]

Work with the other side? I've had to work across the aisle to get stuff done, and I have. So I want to tell you a story. When I was running for this seat in the State house, I was 28 years old, healthy guy, and I Decided to walk the entire length of my district from Round Rock, Texas to Taylor, Texas, 25 miles. It was a long walk. It was all in the Texas heat. Halfway through the walk, I started to feel fatigued and nauseous. Actually threw up a couple times in the last half of the walk. Somehow I finished it. My family got concerned. They took me to the er. The nurses tested my blood sugar. I don't think I'd ever had my blood sugar tested before. They told me that a normal blood sugar is 100 or lower. Mine was 900. I was in a state of diabetic ketoacidosis. They told me that I had type 1 diabetes. I didn't even know what type 1 diabetes was, to be honest with you. I went to Walgreens to pick up my first 30 day supply of insulin, this new medicine that I now needed to live. And it cost me $684. It's crazy for a 30 day supply. And I learned if you want to.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Buy that same bottle of insulin for your dog, it's $25.

[James Talarico]

Well. And so here in Texas, after I got elected, I worked with people with diabetes all over the state. I found out that people were rationing, skipping their doses. Some of them were dying because they couldn't afford it. And I was able to work across the aisle with my Republican colleagues to pass the first ever cap on insulin co pays in Texas history. So from $684, even with insurance, we capped it at $25. So now through public policy, we're going to make sure that people with diabetes can live a long and healthy life. This system is broken, this health care system is broken. Progress is way too slow. But when we come together, when we actually believe progress is possible, we can make people's lives better. And that's the whole purpose of politics.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Sure.

[Undecided Voter 2]

All right, pause.

[James Talarico]

You've been voted out by the majority. Thank you. Hi.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Yes.

[James Talarico]

So nice to meet you.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Okay, so I want to go back to kind of what you guys were saying. You were saying that through your faith, charity and giving is part of what makes us all run. And I think that the issue here is that the charity and the love is important, but it's not something that is in government. I think it's something that is moral and civic education and that's very much needed in order for us to live in a just and free society. But government isn't where you put the charity. Because the thing is, I was a former social worker before I became a stay at home mom.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Good. And I worked with a lot of people, adults and kids. And one of the things that I've seen is like when people are on food assistance for too long, and I think something like 30% of SNAP benefit beneficiaries stay on it long term. It kind of perpetuates and keeps them in poverty rather than helping them out of it. And if we're missing the big middle class, we're saying we're talking about like the poor kids that obviously should have food, but there's a big class outside of that that is struggling and doesn't have the food assistance. So I don't think it's a government.

[James Talarico]

I hear you. So I was just talking about a scripture that guides me, and that's Matthew 25, about how we're judged and how we're saved. I forgot to add that that judgment is not just on individuals, it's also on the nations. So it is both us as people, it's also us as communities. And whether or not our communities, our nations, our governments, are caring for the poor and the hungry and the widow and the orphan. So if you look through the entire Bible, particularly the Hebrew scriptures, there is so much criticism of kingdoms and empires and governments for not doing right by their people. So many of the Hebrew prophets called out the powerful, the people who were in charge. The difference is today we live in a democracy. We don't live in an empire. And so we are making these decisions together. And when we decide as a country, through the consent of the governed, that we want to pitch in to make sure that the most vulnerable people have what they need to succeed and fulfill their potential, I think it's a beautiful thing. I think it's a very Christian thing to do. There are so many politicians who talk about making this a Christian nation. Until it comes to feeding the hungry, until it comes to caring for the sick, until it comes to serving the poor. You talked about people being long term on food assistance. I would say the reason for that is because we haven't raised the minimum wage in this country in 15 years. Here in Texas, it's still a little over $7 an hour. We allow these giant multinational corporations making record profits to pay people poverty level wages. That is what's keeping people in a cycle of dependency. That's what's keeping people in poverty. Not because we want to provide some basic health care and basic food assistance.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I think it's both. I think. I mean, on paper it's $7, but if you go to McDonald's, you're making $12, which is not good. It's still not good in the richest.

[James Talarico]

Country in the world.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Yeah, it's more than $7. But I think when you're trying to put government into, I mean, charity into policy, you're taking away communities, you're taking away the power in communities. And a lot of people, if they don't have the education and the statistics, they kind of just go. Like you said, they vote based on what the billionaires kind of like drift down. But what's needed there is the education piece. And keeping policies or putting more money into systems that are keeping people longer into poverty or keeping them there isn't going to.

[James Talarico]

We want to lift people out of poverty.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Right?

[James Talarico]

We. We want to end poverty. We want to make sure that everyone can contribute what they have to give to this economy, to this country. That's the goal. And. And I think the way we do that is by unrigging the system, because working hard no longer pays. It really doesn't. You can work multiple jobs and still not get into the middle class. That's what we have to fix. And you're right. It's not just government. It's also churches and nonprofits and community groups. It's all the above. All of us have to be working to make sure that every single Texan, every single American, can fulfill their God given potential. All right, pause.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Sorry. Turn to your seat.

[James Talarico]

Yay. Good job, everybody. My next claim is that immigrants make America stronger and richer. Hi. Jade. Yes.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Nice to meet you.

[James Talarico]

Nice to meet you. Let me just lay out what I mean by this, because I know it sounds a little controversial. I'm eighth generation Texan. My family's been here since it was Mexico. My mom actually grew up in Laredo, right on the Texas Mexico border. I feel like we Texans understand immigration more than people outside of Texas because we live with it every day. The benefits and the challenges. The more I travel the state, the more I've realized that most Texans are in the same spot on this issue. The metaphor I've used is that our southern border should be like our front porch. There should be a giant welcome mat out front and a lock on the door. We can both welcome the stranger, welcome immigrants who want to contribute to this economy, who want to live the American dream, who want to make us stronger and richer, and we can keep people out who mean to do us harm. I will say what I think. Not enough Democrats have been willing to say Joe Biden failed us on our southern border. I remember talking to my colleagues in the Texas legislature who represent border communities. They told me about the utter chaos on the border and that failure by Joe Biden paved the way for Donald Trump to come in with masked men in unmarked vehicles, secret police tearing parents from their children, kidnapping people off the street. I think both parties have failed us on this issue. I think we all should come together and finally pass comprehensive immigration reform. More immigration judges, more border patrol, modernize our ports of entry where most of the fentanyl gets in, reform our asylum system, relieve the visa backlog. We should finally fix this problem instead of grandstanding on it.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I completely agree with you on that, but I disagree with is the claim that immigrants as a whole are making America stronger. I think there is a lot of nuance that is not added to that claim. I think that there are a lot of immigrants and immigrants are needed in this country. A lot of these immigrants are the ones that are driving America forward. I also think that there are a lot of immigrants who. America is supposed to be a melting pot. America is supposed to have people from everywhere come together. And there's this concept of assimilation where there should be partial assimilation.

[James Talarico]

You don't.

[Undecided Voter 1]

No one should be forced to completely assimilate and change who they are and change their beliefs to fit in. But at the same time, whenever we have people coming to this country and then going out on the streets yelling that they hate the country, it's counterintuitive and it really does hurt America as a whole.

[James Talarico]

Do you know any undocumented immigrants?

[Undecided Voter 1]

No, I do not.

[James Talarico]

When I was a teacher on the west side of San Antonio, I taught a lot of students who were undocumented. And I don't want to stereotype, but those students tended to be the most patriotic, the hardest working students that I had in the classroom. They understood something about this country that even I, as a native born American, often take for granted. They believed that this was a land of opportunity and they were ready to do whatever it took to make it in this country. And that's what generations of Italian and Irish immigrants did in this country. And I think if we welcome folks who want to contribute, who want to be Americans, it's going to make us stronger and richer, because it already has. All right, pause. You've been voted out by the majority. So nice to meet you. Hi.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Hi. How are you doing? So I would argue that as someone who has my dad's side, they come.

[Undecided Voter 3]

From immigrants and, you know, things like that. I'm originally from Florida, so yeah, I'm.

[Undecided Voter 1]

African and black, however you want to put it.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

But I would say I'm.

[Undecided Voter 3]

I'm in favor of stricter, of stricter borders, mainly because when we have so.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Many immigrants now that are just coming.

[Undecided Voter 3]

Like as a flock and you know.

[Undecided Voter 1]

From everywhere, from India, from Japan, however.

[Undecided Voter 3]

You want to put it.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I think the thing, what's happening now is that like just how the guy who won for New York, what's his name?

[James Talarico]

Mamdani.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Mamdani. I think that the people, when they.

[Undecided Voter 3]

When there's too many immigrants coming, they.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Think that they know America better than.

[Undecided Voter 3]

The originators or people that are born here generationally. And it causes a conflict on government.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Like, you know, Ramazani, I don't know.

[Undecided Voter 3]

How to say his name.

[Undecided Voter 1]

The Indian guy, okay. Who was born here. Right.

[Undecided Voter 3]

And now he's a part of the government.

[Undecided Voter 1]

And I think that kind of plays.

[Undecided Voter 3]

A part in religion, government, what we believe in.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Because a lot of them may not.

[Undecided Voter 3]

Be Christian, maybe Buddhist, and they may just have a different ideology and may.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Not like what you see for us. They may not see for us. And they may try to change it. Same way how Indians come over and get H E B H1 visas, H1V visas or whatever.

[Undecided Voter 3]

And they, you know, bond together, make.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Money together, and don't want any other.

[Undecided Voter 3]

Race culture working with them as a whole.

[Undecided Voter 1]

So that's why I believe overall, stricter.

[Undecided Voter 3]

Borders should be put in place and a stricter citizenship process, because it's not the same as what it used to be. It used to be a lot easier, but now it's getting a lot harder.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Which is a good thing because, you.

[James Talarico]

Know, I agree that we need more secure borders. We're not disagreeing on that. What I am saying is that America as a melting pot is what makes us so special as a country, but it's also what makes us richer and stronger as a country. Have you ever heard the claim that Social Security is going to go bankrupt?

[Undecided Voter 1]

Maybe once or twice.

[Undecided Voter 3]

Yeah.

[James Talarico]

Do you know why Social Security isn't bankrupt today?

[Undecided Voter 1]

Because of immigrants.

[James Talarico]

Because of immigrants. Undocumented people. Pause. So sorry. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat. So nice to see you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yeah.

[James Talarico]

Great job. Hey, Malik. So we just got cut off. Yes. Have you heard the claim that Social Security is going to go bankrupt?

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yes.

[James Talarico]

And do you know why Social Security is not bankrupt today?

[Undecided Voter 1]

No.

[James Talarico]

So it's immigrants that are keeping Social Security solvent. Undocumented people pay into Social Security through their i10 numbers and they don't take any benefits in return. So they single handedly as a community in the Shadows are keeping this system of ours solvent. 5% of the entire armed forces are immigrants. These are people who can't even vote, but they are willing to lay down their lives for this country. And we have 7 million. We have 7 million jobs that still need to be filled. We have more jobs than there are workers in this country. And so my argument here, this claim that I'm making is that by welcoming immigrants who want to contribute, who want to build their own American dream, they actually help benefit all of us and the entire economy.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I would agree with that. But I think this conversation is going in a extremely dangerous direction.

[James Talarico]

Direction.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Okay, 100. And I'll tell you why. So it's really easy to identify a problem. What's the solution? We'll talk about immigration. And I, I agree they do make this country better. And I agree that huge welcome doormat and then locking the door.

[James Talarico]

Yep.

[Undecided Voter 1]

But okay, what's the process of people actually getting to the door in the first place? What's going to be be deemed fair? What's going to be deemed unfair? That's where the conversation. That's what's going to. Because any politician could say, yes, immigrants, good, poor people should have money. It's like that. Okay, cool. But like, what does that process look like?

[James Talarico]

Well, and I want to talk about the specific solutions, but I do just want to acknowledge that both parties are not actually talking about welcoming immigrants and securing the border. So I think the problem here is we don't have candidates or elected officials who are speaking to the giant middle ground where most Texans and most Americans are. Most people are pro immigrant and pro security. And so am I, to answer your question about what would comprehensive reform look like, Yes, a lot of people say immigrants should come here the right way. I agree. The problem is there's not really a right way anymore. There's not even a line that moves at any real pace. There are people who have applied to be here who have waited 20, 30 years. Some people have died before they got a response back. That's not a line. If we want a real line, it has to be a fast moving line. We've got to prioritize people who are going to fill the jobs that need to be filled. And we want to prioritize people who are actually claiming asylum and who need safety. Those are the groups in my mind, that need to be prioritized. But we're never going to be able to process those folks unless we have enough immigration judges, unless we have enough border patrol, unless we modernize the ports of entry 93% of the fentanyl that comes into this country comes through the ports of entry. It doesn't come over the Rio Grande. It comes through the ports. And we don't have the technology or the manpower to detect that fentanyl. And so those are the things we have to do.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yeah, please, real quickly. Because like I said, this is where it gets really dangerous. Because that's. We can blow over. Okay. We've identified the problem. The problem is there's not a quote, unquote right process. But at that same time, there needs to be some process.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

So with the line, what does that process look like? Knowing that there's a right and a. Okay, so what's the line going to be?

[James Talarico]

And a lot of. A lot of the problem is manpower. Right. We don't have enough folks in this system who are doing this work. The current administration has grown the size of ice, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Except it's not people doing Immigration and Customs Enforcement. It is a secret police force that is terrorizing communities in North Texas. There was a mom and dad, the Vargas's. They own a dry cleaners here in Dallas. They're beloved by their customers, by their neighbors. They were dropping their daughter off at Texas Tech University, one of the best universities in the state of Texas. They were on their way back from dropping her off at school. I stopped them, detained them. They are still in a detention center. I do not want my law enforcement or my immigration enforcement officials focused on the Vargas's. I want them focused on murderers and rapists and gang members, people who mean to do us harm. When we devote law enforcement resources to going after the Vargas's, it makes us all less safe. So I'm just asking for sanity in this system. All right, pause. You've been voted out by the majority.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Please respond.

[James Talarico]

Great job. Elise. Yeah. Hi, Tyler. Good to see you. Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

All right. Okay. So you told a really horrible story. That's a very sad story. But also they're undocumented. So this isn't just legal people who are here. That came from another thing. It's a definitely emotional story. It makes me feel horrible for those people. I think there needs to be some. Some better processes here. But it's. It's. They're still illegal, right? They're not supposed to be here. It's wrong by government standards.

[James Talarico]

Right.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I think borders are very biblical. We see Nehemiah, the first thing he did for his country when he returned to Israel, he built a wall. Right? He built a wall to keep those that wanted to Harm them out. And, you know, I'm not saying that everyone coming here wants to harm people, but I'm just saying that, like, biblically, this, this reinforces it. And so, yeah, I feel like there's.

[James Talarico]

I agree. I believe in borders and I don't believe in amnesty. Let's take the Vargas's. We were talking about how they are sympathetic, hard working small business owners in our community. They've been here for decades. There needs to be a path to citizenship. That is not the same thing as amnesty, because you're right.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Is there not already a path to citizenship?

[James Talarico]

No. And that's the problem. We've got millions of people who are living here in the shadows, and there is no path for them to actually come into compliance, which I want them to do. I'm. I'm a law and order Democrat. I believe that laws matter and there should be consequences for breaking the law.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Okay. Okay.

[James Talarico]

So here's what I will say. Tyler. We do recognize in our legal system that there are different punishments for different kinds of offenses. There are civil offenses, like being here without documentation. There are criminal offenses like murdering, raping someone, and those things are treated differently. And so in my mind, and again, I'm open to negotiating how the details work, but there needs to be, in broad strokes, a pathway to citizenship where they pay a fine for being here without documentation or crossing the border legally. There should be some penalty for that. I'm not disagreeing. They should also have to pay back taxes. Again, immigrants, undocumented immigrants in particular, pay a lot of taxes and don't get benefits in return. But they may be missing some of those taxes because they weren't citizens and they need to pay those back taxes and they need to go through the citizenship process. They got to take the tax.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I 100% agree.

[James Talarico]

So they got to learn about our government, they got to learn about our culture. All that is so important. If they do all those things and they've been here a long time and they've been contributing, I think they should be brought into this.

[Undecided Voter 1]

You just said they go through the. They need to go through the immigration process. But then you just told me a minute ago that there is no immigration process, that they can't become citizens.

[James Talarico]

I'm talking about creating one. I'm talking about. That's what I mean when I say comprehensive immigration reform. It is building a process to where we can bring these millions of people living in the shadows into compliance. Because there's not a process right now. And what you're asking is the process on the front end, how they got in here. And I hear so many people say they should come in the right way. We should create a process where there is a right way, where there's a line and it's a fast moving line. I mean, I think you would agree, Tyler, that someone shouldn't wait 20 years to hear back on their application. That's not a process at all. And that encourages. That encourages people to come here the wrong way. So I'm saying this is a systemic problem. You've been voted out. Please return. Great job. Yeah. Hi, Shanice. So nice to meet you.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Nice to meet you, too. So I hear everything you're saying. I take disagreement with you saying, like the Democrats nor the Republicans actually did a good job on border policy because as an immigration attorney, it started under the Obama administration and continued under the Biden administration where they were deporting people for having crimes and moral turpitudes. You would get these notices of deportation notices in the mail. So this idea or this notion that there was just this open border plan and nothing was being done is, like, not true. And in terms of them not hiring people, even the Trump administration spent a lot of time creating different courts in El Paso and trying to force people to stay out of the border and make Mexico create different courts. And even the Trump administration today is still hiring judges, immigration, immigration judges, and fast tracking people out of the country. So I don't understand what exactly you're saying, especially when you say public safety. Because if we look at what's happening, we are talking about we have mass shootings that happen because of U.S. citizens. And so this like, conflating of illegal immigration and public safety I just think is like a misinformation. And as a politician, for me, I expect you to come up with an argument that makes sense. Like you said, okay, we want to create pathways to citizenship. Well, how do you do that for people who are illegal? We had dapa, we had DACA that created work visas, but that wasn't a way to a pathway to citizenship. And that's not fair to the people who have H1B visas. That's not fair to people who have K visas for their fiance. So I'm just a little confused as to why we would fast track people who are here undocumented and ignore people who have been waiting in the visa process line for a long time.

[James Talarico]

Well, first, thank you for your work on this topic. I want to just clarify a few things. I never said that we had an open border policy. I also don't Think we should fast track anybody. What I'm trying to do is create a system that works. And when I speak about the failures of both political parties, including my own, it is the failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform. And that's a failure from George W. Bush to Barack Obama to Donald Trump the first time, Joe Biden and Donald Trump the second time. What I'm saying is we should be going after the cartels, not our communities. We should be hunting down human traffickers, not moms and babies. We should be deporting gang members, not small business owners.

[Undecided Voter 2]

But we did that, and I think.

[James Talarico]

That was great to have a prioritization in terms of deportation, much better than what we have now.

[Undecided Voter 2]

But when you deported crime or people that were part of cartels, and we were doing that in the 90s, the early 2000s, you happen to destabilize Central America, which caused an influx of immigration that we've never seen before. So this idea of like, let's knock down doors and do come after the cartel, I agree with, but I'm confused. You also said we had to do something about people who had been here undocumented.

[James Talarico]

That's right.

[Undecided Voter 2]

My question is, what does your actual comprehensive policy look like for those people who have been waiting in line?

[James Talarico]

Yes.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Because we do have a pathway to citizenship through visas.

[James Talarico]

Yeah. Like I said, I want. For those that are living in the shadows, I want them to have a pathway. I'm not saying they should jump in front of anybody else. What I'm saying is we have to bring them out of the shadows because it makes us all safer and it makes us more prosperous. But I would love. I mean, you tell me. This is a conversation. You're much more of an expert in immigration law than I am, so tell me what you think that policy should look like.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I think if you do what was attempted to do for DACA and DAPA, if you've been here for 10 years or you were brought as a child and you were enrolled in school, you should have a pathway to citizenship. I do understand the fundamental policy of not breaking up families, but I don't understand how we allow their children to stay illegally. Like, do you let them stay, get pathways to citizenships, and then turn around, allow their family to do the family visas, and make people return back to their original country? Because we have to remember if we do that part of it, people go to jail when they go back. We have laws in place with different countries, especially in the Caribbean, where if you were in America illegally, you go to jail to come Back. So when you go back. So there's no to me. I don't think we should fast track undocumented workers, or I think we should probably give people work visas. But I don't agree with you necessarily, getting citizenship, because what other path? Why would other people take the better route, which is not to be undocumented, and actually apply for a visa?

[James Talarico]

So tell me. Here's where I get hung up. Tell me what we do with kids, because I was telling you how I, as a public school teacher, taught a lot of students who were undocumented. Many of them were saved by daca. What do we do for those kids who were brought here through no fault of their own, without their consent? They now live here in America. This is the country they know. They know no other country.

[Undecided Voter 2]

What are we doing about their parents?

[James Talarico]

And you mentioned DAPA being an opportunity for parents.

[Undecided Voter 2]

If we kept work visas for their family, their parents, and allowed them to stay, and they find a pathway to citizenship. If you cross the border before you were, like, six, and we can prove you were here, then I agree. But I think after that age, it gets too murky with trying to, you know, because people will falsify documents, they'll falsify pictures. And so you start. It gets harder and harder to do.

[James Talarico]

I mean, this is the beauty of public policy, right? When we step out of the algorithms and the news networks, people can sit down, even if they're maybe coming at it from a different point of view, and be able to hammer out a solution that actually works. And I always try to listen to the experts, because as a politician, there's no way you can be an expert in everything. And so I think you and I, some of the solutions we've just talked about, that's exactly what we need to be focused on if we're going to fix the system. I think secret police is not the answer, and we have got to find a better path forward on immigration. All right, Cob, you've been voted out. Please return to your speaker. Great job. It's nice to meet you. Yeah. Hi. Terrence. Terrance. Nice to meet you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I'm kind of tough. I'm not soft.

[James Talarico]

Okay.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yeah, yeah. So the border, I think it needs to be, like, closed for a while. You said that, you know, immigrants are some of the most patriotic in my students. Your students.

[James Talarico]

Your students.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I think that it is black people and foundational black Americans that are the most patriotic in America. Why are we not closing the border and using the drugs that are coming in, the money that's coming in from these drugs. Why are we spending money on private schools and letting these private companies fund these private schools and not putting money into the black neighborhoods and brown neighborhoods that were here for so long in America and actually built what a lot of immigrants enjoy today.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

And what are you going to do to kind of lend a hand in that way?

[James Talarico]

Yeah. I don't think we're disagreeing that we need way more investment in our communities, particularly black neighborhoods all over Texas. But I would say that this discussion about immigration also applies to black people because we have black immigrants. Not all immigrants that. That come to this country are from Latin America. Let me stop.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Let me stop. Let's cut out the black immigrants. I'm talking about foundational black Americans and foundational white Americans. So I'm native of Texas and a descendant of slavery. Right. So why are we not focusing on that instead of, like, closing the border? I mean, these people. It's not America's job, Right. To take care of someone's child and mother from another country. That's that country's job. Okay. If they want to be put America as a dumping ground, and then we have to now spend money to put these immigrants somewhere else, that's unfair to me and other foundational white Americans.

[James Talarico]

So here's where I agree with you. We need way more investment in our communities here in America. How? It's why I fight.

[Undecided Voter 1]

How?

[James Talarico]

It's why I fight for.

[Undecided Voter 1]

How do we need to invest in those communities?

[James Talarico]

Yeah. It's why I fight for public education in the Texas legislature. It's why I have fought to lower housing costs and provide more funding for affordable housing. Let's take education just to drill down. As you know, I was a public school teacher, so I know the system from the inside out. By the time kids show up to kindergarten, the first grade kids who grew up in poverty are already behind their peers.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Right.

[James Talarico]

They're affluent peers who have enrichment opportunities, have summer camps, who hear a lot more words because they have stay at home parent or parent who can stay at home versus kids who grew up in poverty. I think the way to fix that, and this is what I've worked on, the legislature, is high quality, universal early childhood education for every child, no matter their zip code, no matter their race, no matter how much money their parents make. Because those first thousand days of a child's life, those first three years are the most important in terms of brain development. And if they aren't catching up in kindergarten, you know that's just going to get worse the longer they're in the public education system. And so we're setting up these students for failure. And I agree with you. These students are, they're children of promise. Again, they're made in the image of God. They have something to contribute. Our job is to create a system that allows them to do that and that early childhood education is a key part of it.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Are you willing to take away the money that we're putting toward bringing other immigrants in? Because most immigrants take away from the jobs. A lot of people can't find jobs after they graduate.

[James Talarico]

Here's where I'll disagree with you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

It takes a long time for them do that because most of the, even the idea has to be sped up in order to get that job because an immigrant can get that job and can get that job for way less.

[James Talarico]

So we've talked about where we agree, which is investment in all kinds of neighborhoods, but investment for Americans. Where we disagree, I think is this idea that immigrants as a whole are a drain on this country. That's where I strongly disagree. Because these immigrants are doing jobs that native born Americans won't do. And here's, and here I'll give you an example. Let me just give you an example.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I disagree. How do you know that?

[James Talarico]

I'll give you an example. Who's you ask? Let me give you an example. Who does you ask to say they.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Don'T want that job?

[James Talarico]

I talked to an avocado farmer in California who's been running this farm for 20 years. He said he has never had a native born American apply to work for one of his jobs.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Let me ask you a question, Let me ask you a question real quick.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Okay.

[Undecided Voter 1]

How many black people are in California.

[James Talarico]

In Los Angeles or in California in total? I don't know. I don't know much about California.

[Undecided Voter 1]

He's under 7% now. He doesn't have enough people that need jobs in California. He's not free to make that statement toward Texas.

[James Talarico]

It's not even that tough.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Texas. More black people stay in Texas. More foundational white Americans stay in Texas.

[James Talarico]

Let's just talk holistically. There are 7 million jobs, but holistically.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Doesn'T work for everyone.

[James Talarico]

But I'm talking globally about the economy. There are 7 million jobs that are unfilled in this country. We have more jobs than we do workers in America right now. And these are, as you know, some of the toughest jobs. Right? Picking our fruit, taking care of our children and our elders, paving our highways. These are jobs that are difficult. And the research shows that undocumented immigrants are really just competing against other recent immigrants. They're not competing with native born Americans, who in many cases, whether it's that avocado farm or whether it's other industries across the country, native born Americans will not sign up to mow our lawns. And so if we go after these immigrants, we're not just hurting them and their families and their ability to live the American dream, we're hurting the entire economy. We're hurting ourselves. And then I'll go one step further. Those immigrants go on oftentimes to create jobs. Half of all Fortune 500 CEOs are immigrants. A quarter of all entrepreneurs are immigrants. The research shows that immigrants and their children have a higher economic mobility rate than native born Americans. So these are strivers, they're dreamers, they're doers. Unlike what some politicians say, in the vast majority of cases, these countries are sending their best and they do make us stronger and richer through their military service and through the doing the jobs that need to be done in this economy.

[Undecided Voter 2]

All right, pause that.

[James Talarico]

That's time.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Please return to your seat.

[James Talarico]

Great job. Terrence. Nice to meet you. My.

[Undecided Voter 2]

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[James Talarico]

Apps, games and skills.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Faster, faster.

[James Talarico]

Try [e-mail] copilot Next claim is that your vote matters in 2026. Hi, what's your name? Michaela. Michaela, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Since this is a new claim, let me just kind of tell you what I'm thinking and then I would love to open this up.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Of course.

[James Talarico]

When I first ran for office, I was 28 year old public school teacher and I was running in a Republican district as a Democrat. And so I had to knock on literally every door in order to get elected. And I was trying to talk to my fellow young people. I'm a millennial. I was also trying to talk to Gen Z and I kept hearing this refrain, I'm not interested in politics. And at some point I was just honest with them. I said, you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you. You may not care about politics, but your boss at work cares about politics. Your Landlord cares about politics. Your insurance company cares about politics. And until you care about politics, they're going to keep using the political system to screw you over. Barbara Jordan, a great Texan, had this quote where she said, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. And so the argument I'm making with this claim is, if young people in particular aren't at the table in this election, we will continue to be on the menu in 2027.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Okay?

[James Talarico]

So I agree that the younger generations are essentially our future. I'm completely undecided.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I have no idea which route I.

[James Talarico]

Want to go specifically because, like, I am a younger generation that wasn't necessarily educated on it. You know what I mean? And I don't entirely feel like I.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Strongly just don't feel that my voice matters.

[James Talarico]

You know, I'm a content creator myself. On election day, I made a joke like, oh, my God, I didn't even.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Realize it was election day.

[James Talarico]

And my whole fan base was like, your vote matters. Like, you were supposed to use that vote. But for someone who's undecided, if I'm not confident in an answer, like, why would it. Why would my voice matter? You know what I mean? Yeah, I hear that. And your first point about how we don't teach young people about the system of government and how to vote and what it means, we're doing them a disservice. And we are actively disenfranchising them by not empowering them with that knowledge. In my first term in the legislature, I actually got a bipartisan bill through the state House. It ended up dying in the state senate for comprehensive civics education.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Education.

[James Talarico]

It's been a long time since we've had real civics education in this country that teach young people how to take ownership of the democratic process. And I think that's absolutely necessary if we're going to give people the tools and the resources to remake this broken political system in their own image. Because politics is corrupt. I will tell you that as someone who's in politics, the system is corrupt from top to bottom. The only way that's going to change is that people like you, people around the circle, people all over the state, decide to take that power back and transform this broken system. So I'm not disagreeing that it's rigged. I'm not disagreeing that it's stacked. That's all true. I think where we may be disagreeing is that we're powerless to change it. I don't believe that. I have faith. Maybe not evidence But I have faith that when we come together across all of our divisions that are put in place by billionaires, when we do that, we can change this country for the better. It may not go fast, but it'll happen. You've been voted out.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Please return to your seat.

[James Talarico]

Thank you. Nice to see you. Great job. Yeah, thank you. Hey.

[Undecided Voter 1]

All right, I'm going to come at you hard on this, okay? Three points. One is, it's contradictory to what you said earlier. You said billionaires and billionaires control it. They're all bad guys. We hate them. We know how that happens, right? Advertisements. And so one, that's contradictory. You're saying it matters. You're also saying it doesn't matter because of millionaires and billionaires. 2. Politicians contribute. Politicians are half of the problem. Things like we put R and D on the voting card. Why? If you don't know who you're voting for, why would we put that there? If you're too uneducated and stupid, why are we giving you the worst shortcut ever? And that's a political system. And then we do things like get out and vote. I'll tell you this, at a bar and I see this giant sign over the stage in a bar, get out and vote. That's idiotic. Because the only person that's going to influence is the person that said, I'm not going to vote. But you know what? I was at a bar and drinking. I saw a sign. I'm going to be an informed, educated voter. No, we don't want those people voting. And then lastly, honestly, James, I don't think you're going to do anything. We've heard it before, you know, drain the swamp, eat the rich until they get voted. And then they're just rich people swimming in the swamp. What are you gonna actually do that changes that system that you're talking about?

[James Talarico]

Yeah, well, one, I agree you shouldn't drink and vote. You gotta keep those two things separate.

[Undecided Voter 1]

We'd probably get better voters, honestly.

[James Talarico]

Two, you're not gonna hear me defend this two party system. I actually think it's corrosive in our politics. It's hard to break out of. But I would be very interested in supporting policies that allow for multiple parties because a lot of other countries have way more than two parties. And I think it allows for more collaboration, more interest to be represented, more issues to be heard. So I'm, I'm very dissatisfied with the two party system. Big money is powerful, don't get me wrong, but it is nothing compared to people power We. We may not have the money, but we have the majority.

[Undecided Voter 1]

What are you going to do? How are you.

[James Talarico]

So let's talk about that one. Let me be very honest with you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Specific. I don't like the general. I want a specific.

[James Talarico]

Let me be honest with you. Let me be honest with you. I alone am not going to change this. I know there are some politicians who say I alone can fix it. I'm not one of them, because I don't want to promise you something I can't deliver. My goal with this campaign is to be a catalyst for people all over the state to come together and organize so that we can start again, not finish, but start our way toward a more representative form of government. So, specifically, we talked earlier about comprehensive immigration reform. I think we also need comprehensive political reform. I hope my first vote if I'm elected as US Senator would be the for the People act, which is something that's already been introduced. I'm sure it'll change the details of it. But a few things that it does is it gets big money out of politics. It ends Citizens United, which may be the most disastrous policy for our democracy in modern American history. And then it goes further, and it bans things like gerrymandering, because gerrymandering is when politicians redraw political lines to benefit themselves. Democrats do it and Republicans do it. Not always the same amount, but they both do it because it's not an issue of party. It's an issue of power. People in power want to stay in power. That's the most predictable thing in history. I've actually been a victim of this. I told you. I first ran as a Democrat in a Republican seat. Seat. And I won that seat because I brought people together across partisan divides. And then my Republican colleagues in the legislature in 2020 decided to draw me out of that district. They basically broke my district in half so that they could guarantee the outcome they wanted. Thankfully, I survived because I was able to move a couple miles down the road and run in the district I grew up in. But I saw firsthand how gerrymandering, how this corrupt redistricting process silences the voices of the people. Again, the deck is down.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I need specifics. Like, I would love for you if you don't.

[James Talarico]

Before the people act. Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Before you get. Before you get my vote.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I need a specific plan. Publish it on your website and say, this is the law. This is how we're covering unintended consequences. Because, yeah, I hope you're right. I've heard it all before, and I feel like I've been hearing it for 20 years.

[James Talarico]

Well. And I would say I also feel tempted by hopelessness. I really do. There are some days when I'm on the floor of the Texas House and I'm fighting for a policy I believe in on health care, on education, on housing, on stopping fentanyl overdoses, and I lose that fight.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I'm not hopeless. I'm disengaged.

[James Talarico]

I'm just telling you how I feel sometimes. And it's hopeless because I'll walk off the floor after that long fight. When I've lost, I'll walk out to my truck, I'll drive home, and I'll just feel totally and utterly defeated. And so I can't imagine how someone on the outside must feel when they look at this political system. The only thing I'm trying to convince you of, the only way out of it, is through you and through the people around the circle, not me. It's actually not through politicians. Politicians will not save us. It will be the people of this state and this country that save us, because it's the only thing that ever has. All right, pause. You've been voted out. Please return to your feet.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Hello.

[James Talarico]

Hi. What's your name? It's nice to meet you.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Nice to meet you. So I disagree in the fact that my vote matters because not only things that I've historically seen, but let's just talk about the last. Let's just say the four years.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 2]

While I was in law school, I had an internship, Capitol Hill. And I actually, at the time, you know, Democrat, because I was going with my family, how I was raised. But there were a lot of things that I saw. It was actually something that you had touched on earlier about the corporations, their involvement, them paying money to different politicians. And it was on both sides. And I realized that they all laid in the same bed. There is no different. I changed. I went. When I got back to Texas, I took that off and I'm like, put me down as an undecided or independent voter. Like, you are very charismatic. I like a lot of things that you said. However, I'm still the how and how's it gonna be done?

[James Talarico]

Yes.

[Undecided Voter 2]

So the gerrymandering, obviously that's been an issue. So if you have politicians involved in that, pretty much you're already saying that my vote doesn't matter, that it's about what the politician wants or the particular party. Also something else that I don't like that the Democrats do or even really on both sides. You don't make sure that the communities are informed of what you've done or what you're going to do. Even down to us just voting for the propositions. The language was written in a way to where people didn't understand it. Also, again, both parties weren't out there trying to inform the people to make sure that they understood what each proposition was saying. And so to me, it just seems like it's pretty much all controlled and it's not about what I want. It's not about the needs of the people and that it's already a fixed race and it's already decided. So my thing is, what are you gonna do to not only inform the voters.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 2]

But what are you going to do to even. Because we've talked a lot about the system.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 2]

You know, but this is 100 years of a system that's not looking like it's going to be shaken.

[James Talarico]

All right, pause. You've been voted out.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Please return to your seat.

[James Talarico]

Thank you. That's so much. I wanted to say.

[Undecided Voter 1]

How's it going?

[James Talarico]

James? Great name.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yeah.

[James Talarico]

No, right.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Both our parents had good naming conventions.

[James Talarico]

That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Why do I feel like my vote doesn't matter? Because as somebody who is a working class, attached to the queer community and a non Christian, there is nobody in our legislature that speaks to the things that I care about. Christian policy typically works kind of in the same vein of my belief system, but there are certain ways that it doesn't. As far as, like, the queer community, especially here in Texas, who's speaking out for them? Who's talking about them? Besides, you know, trans people are ruining sports, which I'm not gonna get into that the final. And to me, what feels like the biggest crux of all of this is no matter how informed I am, no matter how much I research my stuff, all of us in this room research everything. That's 25 of us means 25 people out of, let's say, just this block where we're at right now, there's 500 people in this block. 25 people are informed, 475 probably aren't. And they're more than likely gonna vote with the gerrymandered people who are already in power. So when you say that my vote matters, all of my stuff, plus the fact of that I've been gerrymandered into hell, why?

[James Talarico]

So based on my personal experience, when I was running for the legislature eight years ago, I was running in a gerrymandered district that was built to vote for Republicans and I was running as a Democrat. The deck was stacked against me. The deck was stacked against a lot of people in my community. But we organized. We didn't just vote. Voting is the bare minimum in a democracy. We organized. We went block by block. We talked voter to voter, and we ended up winning that district with 51% of the vote. I say that number because that means it was just a handful of votes. That's right. It's right. And not every election is going to be decided by a handful of votes. I want to be honest about that.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yeah.

[James Talarico]

But some elections that are very consequential will be decided by a handful of votes. And by getting me elected to that position, I have fought for LGBTQ people in this state. I have fought for their dignity. I have fought for their equality, and I will always do so. And I may not always win every fight, but I am there as a voice because people believe their votes matter. So I hear that you're disheartened. Believe me, it's even more disheartening when you're in the system. Oh, I bet. But I have seen glimmers of hope, and a little bit of hope is a dangerous thing, because Raphael Warnock, senator from Georgia, has this thing that he says. He says a vote is like a prayer for a better world. You may not always see those prayers realized in your lifetime, but having faith, and not necessarily religious faith, but faith in this American experiment, that faith means that your hope is that your sunset is someone else's dawn. For sure. Progress is a relay race, and we pass it on to the next generation for us. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yeah, for sure.

[James Talarico]

Hey.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Hey.

[James Talarico]

How are you? Ashton. It's nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

[Undecided Voter 3]

I won't try to get too long winded, so I can stay here a lot longer. But speaking from somebody to kind of walk through this thing, and I'll walk through it pretty quick. Speaking from somebody who historically has voted Democrat, I think the reason why I've transitioned to kind of that undecided space is a lot of people have spoken on it today. Being as African American living in this world, we've talked about the system in this entire thing. We can talk about billionaires and everything, but a lot of it is based on white supremacy. So as an African American man, if you think about the history of this country and how African Americans have been treated as a whole, dating back to slavery and Jim Crow and black codes and the crack epidemic, everything, you have to understand as to why you can kind of get to a point where you lose hope, because in a sense, you have a country who continuously makes it effort to never look at us as far as people, if we're being honest. Cause a lot of it is based on white supremacy. A lot of it is based in the aspect of we are a marginalized group that they do not even think about. So in terms of you being a white Christian male, and we're living in this white nationalist, Christian nationalist world currently right now, how can someone like you speak to me as an African male and an African American just in general and say, hey, your vote does matter, when historically it never has?

[James Talarico]

Here's what I'll tell you. They wouldn't be trying so hard to stop you from voting and stopping young people across the board of all races from voting if your vote didn't matter. To me, voter suppression is proof that your vote has tremendous power, especially when it's joined with thousands and millions of other people's votes. But you're right, we are working in a system where it is increasingly harder to vote, especially here in Texas. This is one of the hardest places to vote in the entire country. All of that is by design. It's so that the people who are currently in power can stay in power and they never have to face accountability. I also want to just thank you for questioning your loyalty to any party. I'm a proud Democrat, but I've said before, I already have a religion and I already have a sports team. Like, I have no problem sharing hard truths in my party. And I don't think you should feel that you owe loyalty to any party. You have a loyalty to yourself and your community and your family. And if one party is not representing you or if one party is taking you for granted, then you have a right to push back against them for sure.

[Undecided Voter 3]

And I think the biggest thing as far as with Democrats specifically is I spoke with someone earlier about this. I think Republicans kind of put it in your face, straight up, hey, I don't like you. And it is what it is, I guess. And I think that with Democrats, as funny as it is, I think with Democrats, they kind of speak in a sense of, hey, if I come to you and say, hey, you know, we are a very marginalized group. We are dealing with over policing, we're dealing with police brutality. It's like, hey, I empathize with you. But then they go on about their day.

[James Talarico]

Let me give you an example on that. I told you, I was elected with 51% of the vote. So Black voters were the reason that I was able to get elected to the state legislature. I had a constituent. His name was Javier Ambler. He was a father who was killed by the police for not dimming his brights. Yeah, he was pulled over. He told them he had a heart condition. They tased him so many times that he died right in front of them. The whole thing was filmed for a reality TV show called Live pd. It's kind of like Cops. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The research shows that those reality TV policing programs encourage more violent behavior from police officers toward constituents. Oftentimes, it's black and brown constituents that are getting the most hurt. I worked with Javier's family to pass Javier Ambler's law, which bans reality TV policing in the state of Texas. It's not enough. We have to do so much more. But to me, that's one example of when you elect someone who does have the community's interests at heart and you continue to work with them. Again, just voting and walking away, it's not going to do it.

[Undecided Voter 3]

It's not yet.

[James Talarico]

But if you vote for someone and you hold them accountable, which I hope you hold me accountable if I'm elected as your senator, progress is possible.

[Undecided Voter 3]

Yeah. And I think. And to the story of the police brutality, because I had a little brother who passed away who was killed by a police officer. So that is something that I'm also very passionate about because it's something that hit very home for me. So when we speak about things such as defunding the police or over policing in our communities, that adds to another piece of why it is very difficult to necessarily, if I'm being very frank, to believe any BS that Democrats are seeing, because I'm living in a reality. Yeah, we can talk about things from a grand scheme, from a top level, but when you're speaking about as an African American walking everyday life where you're dealing with things that are just based in a system that never was meant to work. For me, it's kind of hard to live, to kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm a man of faith, too, and I do believe that there is a belief that you have to, you know, have hope for something, for sure. But I think that sometimes, you know, there is hard to kind of still live in that hope when the everyday world that's around you does not care about you.

[James Talarico]

And, Ashton, do not believe anything I say. Believe what I've done, for sure. And I think that's going to be the best predictor what was your brother's name?

[Undecided Voter 3]

His name is Isaiah.

[James Talarico]

Well, I think that if we do this right, if we have a mass movement of working people of all races in this state and across the country, I think we can win this next election and actually move the country forward for Isaiah and for all the people that we've lost because the system is so thoroughly broken. Thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

My Jason Disney asked me to do this podcast thing. I need some advice. You've got to have banger guests. Walker and Leah, Daniel Deemer, Tim Simons, Adam Copeland.

[James Talarico]

You're the one asking the questions. How?

[Undecided Voter 1]

Why?

[James Talarico]

They better answer.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I don't know anything.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Epic.

[Undecided Voter 2]

This season is just make a quest.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I'm Aryan Samhadri. Welcome to the Percy Jackson and the Olympians official podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts. And watch season two of Percy Jackson streaming now on Disney. And learn [e-mail] what's on this episode.

[James Talarico]

Is brought to you by McAfee.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I found this great place to stay this weekend.

[James Talarico]

Click on the link and book it. Oh, wow.

[Undecided Voter 2]

McAfee alerted me that this site is.

[James Talarico]

Fake and even blocked it. Cybercriminals create fake sites to steal your passwords and financial data.

[Undecided Voter 2]

McAfee identifies and blocks these sites to keep you safer online so you can book your trip without worry.

[James Talarico]

Learn [e-mail] Online Protection Rei Co Op.

[Undecided Voter 1]

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[James Talarico]

You're ripping with your favorite person.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Bluebird skies, blower powder.

[James Talarico]

And frankly, you're skiing like legends.

[Undecided Voter 2]

So sick.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Another lap, thanks to REI's curation. From lid to stick.

[James Talarico]

6.

[Undecided Voter 1]

You nailed the gift.

[Undecided Voter 2]

No way.

[James Talarico]

How'd you know?

[Undecided Voter 1]

Does it get more perfect than that? Give without guessing. Shop in store or visit rei.com Final.

[James Talarico]

Claim is that the biggest divide in our politics is not left versus right. It's top versus bottom. Hi.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Hi.

[James Talarico]

What's your name?

[Undecided Voter 2]

Krista.

[James Talarico]

Krista. Spending eight years in the middle of this broken political system, I come to realize that the biggest divide is between the billionaires who run this political system, who run this economy, who increasingly run this whole country versus the rest of us, whether we're Democrats or Republicans, progressives or conservatives. And I've seen how those billionaires pit us against each other with their algorithms, with their cable news networks. They're trying to divide us by party, by race, by gender, by religion, so we don't notice the they're picking our pockets. They're closing our schools and gutting our healthcare, raising taxes on all of us while they cut taxes for themselves. So what I'm trying to do is bring us all together across all these divisions so we can take power away from them and bring it back into our communities.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Okay, I understand where you're coming from on that, and I agree that lobbying does play a big role in, like, some of our representatives. You know, the more funding they get, the more they have to advertise for, you know, their position that they want. But where I disagree on that is I believe that the. How could I say this? I believe that economics, like the top versus the bottom, accounts for economic inequity. But I believe ideology is where the polarization comes in. So you're a man of faith, correct?

[James Talarico]

Yeah, try to be.

[Undecided Voter 2]

You are. Definitely. So wouldn't you say that your faith drives who you are as a person in your beliefs?

[James Talarico]

Absolutely. And I agree that political polarization is a problem. What I'm trying to get us to realize is how these systems that we're in, a broken political system, a broken media system, a broken social media system, how that exacerbates ideological differences. Of course, we're all very different people. We're going to have different opinions. But these algorithms, these cable news networks, they fan the flames of those disagreements. And that's why we have such polarized politics, in my opinion.

[Undecided Voter 2]

So you think it's like an echo chamber? Is that what you're stating?

[James Talarico]

I think that these billionaires let's, you know, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Rupert Murdoch, the people who increasingly own traditional media and new social media, they have a vested interest in all of us being divided. Because if we recognize that we are far more alike than we are different, if we realize that we have far more in common, we're going to take power back from them and we're going to bring it back into our communities.

[Undecided Voter 2]

So where I would disagree on that is there's so many economic elites. So let's just give an example. The owners of Ben and Jerry, they spend so much time on, you know, climate change, you know, trying to draw that back. They spend a lot of time on putting their time into charity. Let's just say, like, you know, putting it towards charity for those who are less fortunate. But we have the polar opposite, right? Let's just say the owner of Chick Fil A, they spend a lot of their time donating to more conservative. So I would say that it's not just the elite. I believe it goes back to their ideology because we see people who are multimillionaires and they're still donating to the left. They're still donating to the right. Wouldn't you agree?

[James Talarico]

I totally agree. What I'm trying to propose is that we limit the influence of those very, very wealthy people. Whether they're on the left or the right in our political system. They can have their own opinions. There's nothing more American than having your own opinions. They shouldn't have an outsized influence on our political system. They shouldn't be able to buy politicians by the dozen. I'll just give you one example. Here in Texas. There are two billionaires in West Texas, Tim Dunn and Ferris Wilkes. They basically run our state government. I bet most Texans don't even know their names. But every member of the state senate has taken their money. A majority of the members of the state house have taken their money. And for some of these legislators, a majority of their entire campaign contributions come from just these two billionaires. And they use that influence. They use their wealth to shift our state into a far right direction. The most extreme abortion ban in the country, the most insane gun laws in the country. All of that is because these two billionaires have remade our state government in their own image. I'm trying to stop them from doing that. They can have their own opinions. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to stop that. I'm trying to Prevent the top 1%, these billionaire mega donors, from being able to dictate public policy in this state and in this country.

[Undecided Voter 2]

So when we have the issue of, let's just say another multimillionaire in Texas is using it for policies that you agree with, are you going to do that on both sides or are you going to just do it on a certain side? How are you going to combat that?

[James Talarico]

I'm going to limit the influence of billionaires on both sides of the aisle, whether it's a Democratic billionaire or a Republican billionaire. I think we've got to ban things like super PACs. I think we've got to even further limit campaign contributions. I think we've got to prevent lawmakers from being able to engage in insider trading and buying and selling these stocks. I think we need just basic ethics reform, basic transparency, basic accountability. Because when our political system works for the uber wealthy, it doesn't work for the rest of us. In fact, it hurts the rest of us. It's why we can't seem to get ahead no matter how hard we work. It's why we can't seem to afford anything, whether it's groceries or whether it's housing or health care or childcare. It's because the system is not built to work for us. It's built to work for those billionaires and it's working very well from them. I think the way we fix that is by reforming our political system so that it can actually be a government of, by and for the people again.

[Undecided Voter 2]

All right, pause. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your chat.

[James Talarico]

That was great. You were great. Thanks, Kristen. Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Biggest thing that I just heard from this debate you were just talking about is basically billionaires are the problem. I'm curious, why do you think that they are causing the problems?

[James Talarico]

So I actually think the system is the problem. The system allows for those billionaires to have an outsized influence in our political conversation in our economy and it crowds out the rest of us, those who are working class and middle class Texans. And I want to try to write that imbalance. I think what you've seen in this country for the last 50 years is an economy that used to work for most people transform into one that only works for the uber wealthy. The richest 1% in this country now owns more wealth than the entire middle class. Three dudes, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos, now own more wealth than 165 million Americans combined. And they're using that wealth to corrupt our political system. These are not the rich people of old. They're not buying yachts and jets only. They're now buying power. I mean, think about all the debates in our politics. Our schools are being defunded so those billionaires can get another tax break. Our health care premiums are about to go up because those billionaires want another tax break. And then our Social Security, our Medicare benefits are constantly under threat because those billionaires want yet another tax break. So I'm advocating that we limit their power and we empower working Texans to be able to fulfill their own God given potential.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Interesting. How do you propose that we go about doing that? Because, I mean, the system's been here for a long time and I think the more important question is specifically what system? Is it the Texas system? Is it the federal system? Is it the. There's a lot of systems. The school system, the tax system. So yeah, what, what, what specifically are you talking about?

[James Talarico]

All the above. So you said that we've had it for a long time. It has been a long time. It's been about 50 years. But I just want to remind you and those watching that we did have an economic system in this country that worked for the middle class in the 1950s, the 1960s, the richest Americans paid a top marginal tax rate of 90%. I don't know if we need a tax rate that high for rich folks, but it should certainly be higher than what it is now. It's about 37% now. And so I want billionaires to pay their fair share. I don't think that George Soros should pay less as a percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary. And that's what we have now again, billionaires on the left, billionaires on the right, they are getting away scot free. They are leeching the lifeblood out of this country. Out of all the systems that you just mentioned. I think the only way we're going to change that is that people like you, people around the circle, people around the state, decide to come together across all of these divides, recognize that we have a lot more in common than billionaires want us to think and take power back for our communities.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Interesting. So I did a little research about this and the top 5% of earners in America make about $260,000 a year. They make up for about 60% of the total federal income tax. So that's not billionaires.

[James Talarico]

Right.

[Undecided Voter 1]

So that's people who are getting by. They're doing pretty good. But my question is how can you affect billionaires and also still help not hurt those who are not billionaires, but maybe they have a couple million and they're also providing jobs because we have a lot of smaller businesses that are within the 5 million.

[James Talarico]

Totally agree. We don't want to hurt small businesses. We don't want to even hurt people who are upper middle class. What we want to do is go after that top 1%. Actually the top 1% of that 1%, those billionaires who run this economy and run this country. Let's just take an example. The big ugly bill that passed a few months ago in Washington. It gave $3 trillion in tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans. Just guess what the average billionaire is going to get in terms of tax cuts from that bill.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I'm not sure.

[James Talarico]

$110,000. Again, our money, our tax dollars are going to those billionaires who don't need it. Guess what we're going to get regular people, what we're going to get from that bill?

[Undecided Voter 1]

Not sure.

[James Talarico]

A little over $1,000.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Okay.

[James Talarico]

Yeah. To me that feels wildly unfair. And it prevents all of us from being able to start that new business, from being able to grow the economy. It keeps Us from being able to support our families and make sure that our kids are successful in school and in college and in the workforce. That is how this rig system prevents us from achieving our potential as a country. All right, pause. You've been voted out by majority. Please return to Great job. Tyler.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Hi.

[James Talarico]

Hi. Tess.

[Undecided Voter 2]

How are you?

[James Talarico]

Tess, so nice to meet you.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Good to meet you, James. So I'm gonna be straightforward, honest with you.

[James Talarico]

Yeah, please.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I agree with a lot of your stance. I am also my family, our income household, we are in that top 3%, not one. That being said, do I wish. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there. Me and my family, we're not opposed to being the people who say, you know, you tax us more. We're okay with that because everybody around me, everybody I know, they're going, you know, paycheck to paycheck. Single parent. There's not many people we know that are as blessed as us. That said, is it top to bottom that's the problem, or is it left to right? Because when you look at what's going on, I do think that there is a portion of greed that is effective in the billionaires minds or the top 1%, but I think there's a lot of left and right when it comes into it, especially when you look at the industry that it plays into, whether it's oil or housing or whatnot. So I disagree that it's not entirely top. Bottom. I think it's a good portion of it plays into left and right.

[James Talarico]

So here's what I want to point out. This political discourse in our country, it is controlled by those billionaires. Increasingly, these for profit social media platforms, these predatory algorithms, they elevate the most extreme voices on all sides to provoke our outrage because that gets more clicks and that makes them more money. It's a rage economy. Anger sells, fear sells, hate sells. These platforms designed by those billionaires, these platforms appeal to our worst demons instead of our better angels. These billionaires are engineering our emotions so they can profit off of our pain. They are selling us conflict and calling it community. These platforms don't incentivize us doing what we're doing here, which is listening to each other and finding common ground. These platforms want us at each other's throats because those billionaires benefit. Whether you're in the top 3%, whether you're in the bottom 3%, we have a lot more in common with each other than we do with those billionaires.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Absolutely.

[James Talarico]

And so they want us focused on how we're different. There's definitely a progressive conversation, a conservative conversation that's been happening since the beginning of time. It's healthy. It's good. I'm worried about how these platforms, they divide us further apart so that we can't find that common ground anymore and it's corrosive to our politics.

[Undecided Voter 2]

If you're elected senator.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 2]

What are you going to try and implement and pass in order to make sure that this divide is eliminated? Because this divide is kind of tearing all of us apart.

[James Talarico]

It is. 1. I want to be very honest with you. One candidate, one senator is not going to fix this. Oh, absolutely. This is going to be fixed by you and the people around the circle, hopefully running and supporting candidates who align with this purpose. But to answer your question directly about what I would want to do if I got in there, I've served for four terms in the state House. I've been fighting these billionaires in the trenches of the Texas legislature, and I've been bringing together Democrats and Republicans to do that. I had a bill that I filed a few sessions ago. It was actually a Bernie Sanders idea to bring cheap prescription drugs from Canada to Texas because Canadians pay half of what we pay because big pharma controls our health care system. And I didn't think it was going to pass. But a friend of mine in the Freedom Caucus, a far right Republican from Wichita Falls, he called me up and he was like, I really like your bill because I believe in free markets and big pharma distorts the free market. So he and I got that bill passed through the Texas House, through the Texas Senate, and we got it signed by the governor. It is now law in the state of Texas. We're going to start importing those drugs and saving lives. So that's an example of bringing people together across a progressive and a conservative spectrum to take power away from big pharma and help all Texas, regardless of your political party, regardless of your race, regardless of your gender, regardless of your religion. That's what I'm going to try to do as a US Senator. I want to focus on prescription drugs. I want to focus on housing. I want to focus on childcare. All things I've worked on here. I'll just tell you, we're not going to make progress on any of those issues until we get the corruption out of our politics.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Absolutely.

[James Talarico]

And so I want to. The first bill I want to file, the first bill I hopefully can vote on, is comprehensive political reform to limit big money, to end things like gerrymandering. So that we can have a government that's responsive to us and not billionaires.

[Undecided Voter 2]

But when you say comprehensive government reform, specifically.

[James Talarico]

Yeah, banning super PACs, this is the biggest loophole in our campaign finance system. I also think we have to lower campaign finance contribution limits. We do have limits at the state, at the federal level. We don't have them here in Texas. I filed a bill to put them in place here in Texas. But even those limits at the federal level, they're way too high and. And they are porous. There are so many loopholes, so many ways to get around them. We've got to tighten up the system so we can actually have a political system that responds to people and not billionaires. And then I want to go further on ethics and transparency. I don't think lawmakers in our nation's capital should be buying and selling stocks, especially engaging in the insider trading which we've seen in both political parties. Yes, we got to end that. We got to put an outright ban on that. These are just some of my ideas, but I'm very open to others. All right, pause. Oh, man. I apologize. You'll have to come back. Please return to your seat. Hey, nice. Mr. James Malik.

[Undecided Voter 1]

So I do agree with a lot of things that you said earlier. As a man of faith, I feel like your heart is in the right place as well. With a lot of things I would say my only issue is we kind of talked about how using the billionaires money that they're using, basically how they're avoiding taxes, avoiding paying money for all these things, and how people could potentially use that exact same money to start a business. My only issue with that is how many people nowadays are getting educated on how to start a business. And that's a very huge issue. So be like, okay, we can also say money is a problem, but I don't think that's necessarily what it is. And also, I would love to be very wrong about this because I am very passionate about teachers being very underpaid. And you are a teacher. So I have a lot of respect just there and so. But I think you would agree as well that you even taking the step to leave that job and to now run for Senate, that's also taking a risk. And there's people that are business owners that are obviously making a lot of money, and either way, they're gonna find a way to avoid those taxes regardless. So. But wouldn't you agree that you leaving that safe, secure job to run 4 cent, that's taking a risk. Therefore, if you were now successful, you kind of deserve extra compensation for that. Would you agree?

[James Talarico]

Oh, I'm all for success. I'm not trying to demonize success.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Right.

[James Talarico]

Guess what percentage of baby boomers made more money than their parents? Just take a wild guess.

[Undecided Voter 1]

A wild guess? Ooh, I don't have a wild guess.

[James Talarico]

It was 90%.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Okay.

[James Talarico]

90% of baby boomers made more money than their parents did. They lived the American dream. It was a reality for most people in that generation. Guess what that number is for millennials like me.

[Undecided Voter 1]

No idea.

[James Talarico]

50%. It's even lower for Gen Z. The American dream is out of reach increasingly for most people, particularly most young people in this state and across the country.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Right.

[James Talarico]

And that is not because millennials or Gen Z are more lazy or not interested in succeeding or interested in growing and thriving. It's because the system is rigged against us. That system over the last 50 years with trickle down economics has just been so heavily weighted toward the people at the top, the billionaires, the mega donors. And then they use that wealth to then rig more rules for themselves. I'll give you one example. In the 1980s, they deregulated the banking system and it allowed for these big banks to charge working people, the working poor, overdraft fees. So now you can charge a single mom who's just trying to get by working multiple jobs, you can charge her multiple overdraft fees a day. And they profit overwhelmingly from those fees. So that's an example of a rule, or I guess a lack of a rule that allows for the wealthy to profit off of working people and the working poor. Right. These are rules we can change. They're man made. We had better rules before trickle down economics. We can get back to that. But it's going to take you and me and all of us coming together across these divisions to take that power back, because they're not going to give it up. They have more money. We have more people.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Yes.

[James Talarico]

We have the majority.

[Undecided Voter 1]

I see. My only thing with that is because I, I agree with a lot of things that you're saying. My only thing is we're talking a lot about money, but money's not throwing regardless of if people are getting paid more. That's not gonna solve the issue.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 1]

The thing is kind of like we were saying earlier, people that are making a lot of money, maybe not teaching other people how to basically have that exact same success.

[James Talarico]

Yes.

[Undecided Voter 1]

So maybe it's not a financial issue. Maybe you have a lack of education on how to start that business, how to stop being a teacher. Now you're running for Senate. How many people know how to do that? That are teachers right now?

[James Talarico]

Yeah, I think it's both. Right, exactly.

[Undecided Voter 1]

For sure.

[James Talarico]

And I authored a bill in the state legislature to provide financial literacy education for students in Texas because, you know, in addition to learning the quadratic equation or reading Shakespeare, you should also learn how the economy works and learn how to manage your money. These are skills that maybe will have more of an impact on your life whether or not you read Shakespeare. And I think our education system has to take that into account. The problem is here in Texas and across the country, we have billionaires like Tim Dunn and Ferris Wilkes who are trying to close our public schools. We've seen public schools closing at an alarming rate all over Texas, in all kinds of communities, including in my own district, schools are closing because they're being actively defunded by those billionaires who don't believe in giving all of us an opportunity to succeed. So all I'm trying to say is that we've got to recognize that problem, and we've got to take steps as a country, working people of all stripes, of all beliefs, to take power back from those billionaires and bring it into our communities, the things that you and I are talking about.

[Undecided Voter 2]

All right, guys, that's time.

[James Talarico]

You may return to yourself. Great job, Malik. Yeah. I think they said that I'm the first ever candidate to do this show.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Yep.

[James Talarico]

Yeah. So cool. Yeah. Maybe we'll make it to where everybody's got to come.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Yeah. I hope we started trying.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Yeah.

[James Talarico]

Yeah. James will now choose someone from the.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Circle to come back to the center to debate their own claim.

[James Talarico]

I'd like to invite Krista back up to introduce her claim. Hi. Good to see you again.

[Undecided Voter 2]

My claim is no matter how many. How much gun violence happens within the state of Texas, there will never be a gun ban or gun reform.

[James Talarico]

Well, that claim is pretty gut wrenching, given that we've had five of the deadliest mass shootings in American history right here in Texas. One still haunts me to this day as a former public school teacher, and that's the massacre in Uvalde, Texas, in Robb elementary, when we lost 19 babies and two teachers. Here's where I'll disagree with you on this claim, though. I saw those parents from Uvalde. I saw them make the 160 mile drive from Uvalde to the state capitol multiple times during that legislative session, demanding begging for basic common sense, gun safety. They believed in the second amendment just like I do, but they Knew that there needed to be some kind of regulation to keep everyone safe and protect everybody's freedoms, including the freedom of those 19 babies to live and fulfill their potential. What I saw them do just over the course of one legislative session is move the needle on a common sense bill to raise the age to buy those kind of weapons from 18 to 21. The murderer in Uvalde turned 18 the day before he committed that horrific massacre. Right. There was no Republican support for that bill. They had all the Democratic support, but they worked relentlessly. They met with Republican lawmakers and they actually got two Republicans to switch their votes on the committee and get it passed out of committee. That's the first step in getting something to the floor. It didn't ultimately pass, hasn't passed yet, but there was progress toward a real solution that could save lives in the future. Two of those Republicans decided to change their votes because of those conversations with the families in Uvalde. One of them sacrificed his seat in the next Republican primary to do the right thing by those kids and by those families. That kind of stuff. It makes me believe in humanity again, which can be really hard when you turn on the news or open up your social media timeline. But I do think that we can get common sense gun safety regulations in Texas, still honor the second amendment and hopefully prevent those kind of massacres from happening in the future.

[Undecided Voter 2]

So my question is, what are you doing? I'm following your campaign and I'm not really seeing anything on what you're doing to prevent gun violence in the future. I'm not saying bad guns or anything along those lines. Of course I want reform. I want the legal age to be raised from 18 to 21. I myself have a nine.

[James Talarico]

Yeah.

[Undecided Voter 2]

So I think I want to hear what you're doing. Yeah, tell me.

[James Talarico]

Yeah, I appreciate that because I, when I'm at these events all over the state, this is a question I get asked often and I'm. I'm talking about gun safety a lot because it's on people's minds. And again, just like I've said many times in this debate, you shouldn't really take what I'm saying in this conversation. You should take a look at what I've done. I have a hundred percent pro gun safety voting record in the state legislature. And if I'm elected as U.S. senator, I'm going to fight for things like universal background checks. I'm going to fight for red flag logs. I'm going to fight to close the gun show loophole. The vast majority of Texans and Americans want these common sense gun safety rules put in place so they can save people's lives.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Why haven't you already started doing that? Why is it?

[James Talarico]

Oh, I have. I have. I've introduced a lot of gun safety bills myself. I have. I have voted for every gun safety piece of legislation that came before me. Unfortunately, there weren't enough gun safety advocates serving in the legislature.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I find it challenging to believe that there will be any change. It's only a matter of time before there's another Uwalde shooting within Texas. And it's a matter of, I don't want to ban guns at all. I don't want to take away people's rights. But it's a matter of when are we gonna start putting these processes in place, you know, again, background checks, again, raising the age limit. You know, your mind isn't even fully developed at 18.

[James Talarico]

So I would. I would say the biggest obstacle that's preventing us from making progress and saving lives is the influence of big money on this issue. The NRA has a stranglehold on too many politicians at the federal level, but also at the state and local level. And they use that big money to prevent all of us from passing things that most Texans want, that most Americans want. The reason we can't is because the NRA has bought too many politicians. It's why I am not taking a dime of corporate PAC money in this campaign. It's why I'm not taking money from the NRA. It's why I'm not taking money from AIPAC. I think the number of PACs that control politicians in this country is appalling, and it's why we can't seem to move forward on these issues where most of us agree. Okay, that's interesting.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I appreciate that perspective. Again, I think. I'm not sure that, yes, of course, the NRA does play a big role with politicians and things like that, but I think it goes back to, again, ideology. I value my home. I value, you know, my life. That's why I carry a gun with me. Sure, I don't. I live in South Dallas and, you know, it's. I can't go on a walk, like, every day by myself. So of course I'm going to take my nine with me just in case. And I don't think it ties back to the nra. I think it ties back to ideology.

[James Talarico]

But here's where I'll disagree, though. It can't be about ideology when everybody in the state agrees on these common sense policies. I mean, maybe there's you know, a handful of folks on the extremes who don't. But when you look at the data, the vast majority of Texans want these policies in place. So to me, then I ask the question, why can't we get it done? If most people are in agreement on the policy, then what's preventing us from making progress? The only answer I can come back to is the influence of big money like the NRA in our political system. The way they can buy politicians and the way those politicians are then beholden to those groups so they're less responsive to our needs and more responsive to their billionaire mega donors. All right, guys, that's time.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Please return to your show.

[James Talarico]

Thanks. Yeah, good job. Yeah, thank you.

[Undecided Voter 1]

When I sat down with James didn't agree with everything but it was a good healthy reminder of this isn't a bad guy. This guy genuinely wants what's good and he thinks this is the best way to go about it. And I love surrounded the episodes that accentuate that and remind us of that.

[Undecided Voter 2]

I mean politicians are good at saying what you want to hear. But there were some things that I like that he's done.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Voter education needs to happen a lot more. It needs to be less a form of, I don't know how to say this nicely, indoctrination through media and social media. I think it needs to be more a presenting of the facts.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Do you think you're absolutely not going to vote?

[Undecided Voter 1]

100% and it's nothing against James? It's really not. It's just two things. One, I don't see a vision that changes the system fundamentally and two, I don't see that much of a difference. I really don't. I'm more interested in what I do to control my own life than what the government does. And so I think if I'm going to be civilly engaged, I'm going to do it in other ways other than voting. I'm wasting my time. It's one hour to go vote against a bunch of sheep zombies who are controlled by advertisements and not even good advertisements. Really shitty non nuanced arguments.

[Undecided Voter 3]

Being honest, I definitely do see myself voting in a lot of honesty. You know, hearing James talk, there was a lot of things that he said that I thought was great. I think on a fundamental level we agree on a lot of things, but I think there was a lot of political talk in terms of things that he was saying and the kind of dancing around conversations rather than just talking about the root cause of hey, this is something that I am going to push forward I do understand that he is one person and he is not an entire body. It has swayed me in terms of who I'm going to be voting for and specific things I I'm going to be looking for. As far as in politicians, when I ask them the question, okay, what is it that you're going to be able to do for me? And if they can't answer that question and they just dance around it, then it is going to sway as far as my decision.

[James Talarico]

Don't forget to subscribe to Surrounded wherever.

[Undecided Voter 1]

You get your podcasts so that you don't miss an episode.

[James Talarico]

And if you want to watch the.

[Undecided Voter 1]

Video version of Surrounded, subscribe to Jubilee on YouTube.

[James Talarico]

Join Vanguard for a moment of meditation.

[Undecided Voter 2]

Take a deep breath.

[James Talarico]

Picture yourself reaching your financial goals. Feel that freedom. Visit vanguard.com investinginyou to learn more. All investing is subject to risk.