Surrounded – Piers Morgan vs 20 Woke Liberals

Podcast: Surrounded by Jubilee Media
Date: November 30, 2025
Guest: Piers Morgan, English journalist and broadcaster
Theme: Debating the definitions, consequences, and value of "woke" ideologies, masculinity, pronouns, cancel culture, and the culture wars—with Piers Morgan facing 20 "woke liberals" in a one-on-many debate.

Episode Overview

In this provocative and combative episode, Piers Morgan faces a rotating panel of 20 progressive-leaning guests in a series of rapid-fire debates on hot-button cultural issues. Topics include the nature of toxic masculinity, the meaning and purpose of gender pronouns, whether "wokeism" is liberal or fascistic, the consequences and legitimacy of cancel culture, and if the focus on culture wars distracts from economic realities. Throughout, Morgan pushes back against progressive orthodoxy, decrying what he sees as excesses of the "woke left," while panelists offer spirited (and often critical) counterpoints.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Masculinity Ever Toxic?

(See: 05:10–24:30)

• Morgan’s Stance:
  Morgan opens by decrying the notion of "toxic masculinity," arguing it’s a modern invention and that masculinity itself is not inherently toxic.
  Quote:

  “I don't think it's ever been toxic. What's happened is you have men behaving badly, but you also have women behaving badly. And no one calls that toxic femininity.” — Piers Morgan [06:50]

• Panelists’ Rebuttal:
  Several panelists argue that different cultures and times have fostered differing masculinities; some elements or expressions can be unhealthy—hence the term "toxic masculinity."
  Notable exchange:

  “Unhealthy elements exist in all masculinities and femininities… When men hide behind ‘protector’ or ‘provider’ and act out, that can be toxic.” — Panelist Ceci [12:40]

• On Modern Men’s Challenges:
  Morgan expresses concern for young men—particularly his sons—who, he says, feel “downtrodden” due to cultural suspicion towards masculinity.

  “Young men… feel like they are the most downtrodden, picked upon people in society—with good reason in many cases.” — Morgan [09:05]

• On Andrew Tate:
  Morgan distinguishes between messages of self-improvement for men and Tate’s misogynistic rhetoric:

  “Aspire to be great, work hard… but blatant misogyny is not ‘toxic masculinity’—it’s just misogyny.” — Morgan [15:48]

2. Debating Pronouns and Gender Identity

(See: 1:22:40–1:53:00)

• Morgan’s Skepticism:
  Morgan repeatedly refers to non-binary pronouns as “bullshit” and “absurd.” He challenges the logic behind calling a single person “they” and ridicules the idea of limitless self-identification (e.g., star gender).
  Quote:

  “When one human being says to me, call me they/them, I laugh. It’s absurd.” — Morgan [1:26:10]

• Panelists’ Defense:
  Multiple guests stress that pronouns help people feel respected, and most people who prefer neo-pronouns are not demanding, nor punitive about honest mistakes.

  “If someone wants to be referred to as ‘they/them’, it’s a matter of respect—just like calling someone by their name.” — Jenny [1:37:30]

• Limits to Self-Identity:
  When pressed on whether self-identity can really be limitless, panelists usually admit biological sex exists, but maintain gender is a social construct. They reject the idea that this leads to identifying as “a black lesbian” or as an animal:

  “You can’t identify as another race because that’s just genetically not correct.” — Jenny [1:45:55]

3. Woke Ideology: Liberal or Fascist?

(See: 54:20–1:22:20)

• Morgan’s Critique:
  Morgan claims that "wokeism" began as a liberal movement but morphed into a form of illiberal, authoritarian groupthink that silences opposing views—a behavior, he argues, reminiscent of fascism:

  “Wokeism… conditioned people that you either adhere to our narrow worldview, or we’re going to shame, vilify, cancel you—or sometimes, kill you for your opinions. That is dangerous.” — Morgan [1:11:05]

• Panelists’ Pushback:
  Guests counter that fascism is a uniquely right-wing phenomenon based on state violence and supremacist hierarchy, while “wokeness” is about inclusion and justice.

  “Fascism is about elevating one group to the top of the hierarchy, not about giving silenced groups more voice.” — Mason [1:12:50]

4. Cancel Culture vs. Accountability

(See: 1:55:40–2:24:00)

• Morgan’s Concern:
  Morgan distinguishes cancel culture from “accountability,” asserting that social media mobs and institutional overreactions have destroyed livelihoods over what should be protected speech—even if it’s offensive.

  “There was a frenzied atmosphere…driven predominantly by the woke left… of canceling anybody that didn’t sign up to their worldview.” — Morgan [2:00:30]

• Examples Raised:

  • Piers himself: Morgan claims mob pressure got him fired from Good Morning Britain for not believing Meghan Markle.
  • Sharon Osbourne: “Fired for defending Piers, not for what she said, but for who she supported.”
  • Graham Linehan (UK): Arrested for trans-related jokes online.

• Panelists’ Take:

  • Argue that most cancel culture is backlash without state violence—i.e., businesses making choices, or “consequences” for speech.
  • “Being fired isn’t a violation of free speech; it’s a consequence—it’s not the government punishing you.” — Shane [2:19:00]

  “Accountability is not the same as cancel culture… If I said bigoted things, my constituents would righteously vote me out—that’s common sense.” — Rob [2:14:05]

  • Panelists challenge Morgan to provide examples of true violations of free speech (i.e., arrest, government suppression), which leads to disputes over definitions.

5. Are Woke/Culture War Debates a Distraction?

(See: 2:27:30–end)

• Nick’s Claim (Finale):
  The recurring focus on culture war issues like pronouns and trans athletes, Nick says, is a distraction by both the left and right from the real source of inequality: billionaire interests, the decline of labor power, and economic precarity.

  “80, 90, 95% of what actually matters is what's going to put more money in people's pockets, what's going to let them have a dignified life. Talking about wokeness, whether it's dead or alive, is just a distraction.” — Nick [2:28:00]

• Morgan’s Response:
  Morgan broadly agrees that economics and geopolitics are more important, but maintains that millions do care about culture war issues and that denying this is “arrogant.”

  “There are a million issues you may not care about. The trans athlete issue—millions of people do. Don't be arrogant enough to tell people what they should care about.” — Morgan [2:31:15]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On masculinity being deemed toxic:

  “It's a symptom of weak, whiny, woke wastrels who've decided to revise what masculinity is.” — Morgan [10:30]

• On gender pronouns:

  “When one human being says to me, call me they them, I laugh. It's absurd.” — Morgan [1:26:10]

• On the "woke mind virus":

  “Wokism has become one of the worst scourges in the world…I think they just want to suck all the joy out of life.” — Morgan [1:17:10]

• Panelist humorously on Morgan’s fixation:

  “The fixation on this really shows your emotional connection to the idea of pronouns more than, like, other people's want to self identify.” — Parker [1:51:12]

• On cancel culture vs. accountability:

  “We're conflating accountability with cancel culture. If I said a bunch of bigoted things, my voters would righteously vote me out. That's not cancel culture. That's…common sense.” — Rob [2:14:05]

• On the economy vs. culture wars:

  “For most people, whether the CEO of Lockheed Martin is a trans black woman does not matter. What matters is whether they have a job that actually is able to pay the rent.” — Nick [2:34:40]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 05:10: Piers’s opening on masculinity—why he rejects “toxic masculinity”
• 15:48: Andrew Tate, masculinity, and misogyny distinction
• 22:20: Panelist Parker and Piers spar on stoicism, therapy, and emotional expression
• 54:20: “Woke is fascistic?”—Morgan lays out his “woke as fascism” thesis
• 1:17:10: “Wokies want to suck the joy out of life” anecdote
• 1:21:50: Panelists refute “woke = fascist” and define what fascism is
• 1:22:40–1:53:00: Full pronouns and gender debate (with several examples and “absurd”/“respect” themes)
• 1:55:40–2:24:00: Cancel culture: accountability vs. censorship, discussion and real-life cases
• 2:27:30–2:43:00: Final Nick vs. Piers face-off: Is woke debate a distraction from economics?
• 2:42:00–end: Final reflections and mutual respect for disagreements

Tone & Dynamics

• Smart, combative, occasionally sardonic. Piers is earnest, sometimes mocking; panelists range from measured to exasperated, often directly challenging Morgan’s assertions and framing. Despite heated exchanges, several moments of agreement and mutual respect arise.

Conclusion

This episode embodies the culture war in podcast form—a single high-profile opponent facing down a battery of challengers, with repeated themes emerging:

• The limits (and logic) of language change
• The boundary between personal and public offense
• The role of emotion, therapy, and resilience in modern life
• Who really benefits from a permanent state of social conflict—ordinary people, or elites?

Ultimately, despite little consensus, the discussion maintains a thread of open disagreement and mutual probing—a rare window into the possibilities (and limitations) of cross-ideological dialogue.