There Is No Greater Teacher In Life, Than Money - Revisited

Summary

There Is No Greater Teacher In Life, Than Money – Revisited

Podcast: Suze Orman's Women & Money (And Everyone Smart Enough To Listen)
Host: Suze Orman, with KT (Kathleen Travis)
Episode Date: September 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the emotional and psychological relationship individuals have with money, highlighting the belief that “there is no greater teacher in life than money.” Suze Orman and her spouse KT revisit a powerful listener email that sparks an honest, insightful conversation about windfalls, self-worth, guilt, gratitude, and building healthy money mindsets. Rather than covering technical investing or financial mechanics, the episode is an exploration of personal growth, self-recognition, and openness toward abundance.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Money as a Mirror for Personal Growth ([01:09])

• Suze’s Philosophy:
  Suze opens with the perspective that money is not just about investments, budgets, or financial products:

  "It's also about emotional lessons, psychological lessons, all kinds of personal lessons that we need to learn about ourselves in relationship to our money." (01:09)

• Money’s Role:
  She insists, “You and your money are one and… your money is there sometimes to teach you what you need to learn about yourself.”

2. Listener Email: Navigating Change and Success ([03:20])

• Email Summary:
  KT reads an email from Anna, a long-time listener, who left an unhappy marriage and experienced a major financial windfall from stock compensation (approx. $1.4 million/year), but now struggles with guilt and feeling undeserving of her success.

• The Dilemma:
  Anna expresses feelings of guilt and embarrassment about her newfound wealth, especially when comparing herself to others with “harder jobs,” and asks for advice on embracing her success without losing humility or gratitude.

  "The thought of that is so absurd to me, almost ashamed to admit it." (05:06)

3. Recognizing and Overcoming Money Guilt ([07:10])

• Not Alone:
  Suze normalizes Anna's feelings, noting many people—especially women—experience guilt or shame around inheritance or windfalls.

  "It's not just you, Anna, that feels that way." (07:10)

• The Danger of Hiding Wealth:
  Hiding financial success out of fear or shame leads to internal obstacles and an unhealthy relationship with money.

• KT’s Insight:
  KT notes Anna didn’t express pride in her success and encourages her to own that accomplishment:

  “Ana, the one thing you didn’t say—I’m so proud of myself.” (08:00)

4. Suze’s Personal Experience with Wealth and Guilt ([08:50])

• Her First Big Checks:
  Suze recalls feeling disbelief and even shame when first receiving large paychecks, letting them sit untouched:

  “I let that check sit on my kitchen counter for maybe two weeks… I couldn’t believe it.” (11:14)

• Parental Pride:
  She shares how she sent a photo of a large check to her mother, who “looked at that picture every single day for over a year.” (11:14)

• The Real Obstacle:
  Suze boils Anna’s challenge down to three words:

  “Fear, shame, and anger are the three internal obstacles to wealth.” (11:40)

• True Wealth:

  “True wealth… is that which can never diminish. Because the truth of the matter, Anna, is money can come, money can go. But true wealth…when it is grounded in the truth of who you are, it can’t diminish.” (12:08)

5. Standing Proud and Sharing Abundance ([13:16])

• KT’s Approach:
  KT says she would share her good fortune and celebrate rather than hide it:

  “If it happened to me, I’d walk around with the biggest smile.” (13:16)

• The Value of Sharing:
  Suze connects the advice to previous guidance on debt—sharing financial circumstances removes shame and isolation.

• Practical Advice:
  Encourage celebrations with loved ones and consider using windfalls to help others, i.e., freeing her ex-husband from the mortgage. (15:54–16:16)

6. Accepting Success and Redefining Your Truth ([16:16])

• Deserving vs. Undeserving:
  Suze pushes Anna (and listeners) to see that success comes from both opportunity and decision-making, not just luck:

  “You decided to stay in that corporation. You decided to invest in stock options. You made a lot of decisions in your life Anna, and you’re good at your job and you know it. That led you to where you are.” (16:47)

• Stop Insulting Yourself:
  Suze emphasizes, “Do not insult yourself like this.” (16:49)

• Self-Reflection Practice:
  She prescribes a daily practice to internalize self-worth.

  “You have to retrain every molecule in your being to feel like you deserve this. … Write it down every single day, 25 times. … Scream it out loud 25 times. … Right before you go to bed, … say it… as you’re looking at yourself. … Do that every single day for at least six months.” (18:10–19:15)

7. Declaring a New Truth ([19:29])

• KT’s Suggestion:
  Use Anna’s own words as her affirmation:

  “I am humble, grateful, and great at what I do. And that is why I now am a millionaire.” (19:30)

• Applicability at Any Age:
  Suze encourages listeners, regardless of age, to embrace windfalls or large surpluses with openness, gratitude, and responsibility.

8. Keeping Hands and Hearts Open ([20:46])

• Let Go of Fear:

  “Don’t hold on to your thoughts and your fear and your shame and the little amount of money that you think you have with tightened, closed hands. … Keep them open to receive that which is meant to come your way.” (20:48)

• Keys to Lasting Wealth:
  Be grateful, protect your abundance, and invest and save wisely. (21:54–22:02)

9. Money as a Tool, Not an Identity ([22:16])

• Suze’s Core Belief:

  “Money will never define you; you have to define your money.” (22:16)

• KT’s Observation:
  Suze’s fulfillment comes from helping others, not from her own wealth:

  “Her joy doesn’t come from her windfalls and her great wealth… it comes from knowing she can help someone.” (22:38)

• Suze’s “True Bank Account”:

  “That is my true bank account that I will take with me no matter what. That is true wealth.” (23:14)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “There is no greater teacher in life than money.” – Suze Orman (01:30)
• “Fear, shame, and anger are the three internal obstacles to wealth.” – Suze Orman (11:40)
• “True wealth… is that which can never diminish.” – Suze Orman (12:08)
• “I am humble, grateful, and great at what I do. And that is why I now am a millionaire.” – KT, paraphrasing Anna (19:30)
• “Money will never define you; you have to define your money.” – Suze Orman (22:16)
• “People first, then money, then things.” – KT (23:41)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:09] – Emotional and psychological lessons about money
• [03:20] – Listener Anna’s email and financial windfall dilemma
• [07:10] – Normalizing guilt and shame about money
• [11:14] – Suze’s personal story of her first big checks
• [11:40] – Internal obstacles: fear, shame, anger
• [12:08] – Defining true wealth
• [13:16] – KT’s advice on celebrating abundance
• [16:47] – Suze: “You decided to stay in that corporation…”
• [19:30] – Affirming a new truth: “I am humble, grateful, and great at what I do…”
• [20:48] – Keeping hands open for abundance
• [22:16] – Money doesn’t define you
• [23:41] – “People first, then money, then things.”

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Takeaways & Tone

The episode is candid, compassionate, and empowering, seeking to break down the stigma and internal obstacles that can come with financial success. Suze’s and KT’s warm, personal anecdotes and tough love encourage listeners to acknowledge their worth, share not hide their success, and to see money as a tool for both personal growth and helping others. Throughout, the message is clear: self-worth and openness are the foundations of lasting wealth and happiness.

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For more episodes and community resources, download the Women & Money App or visit Suze Orman’s website.

Transcript

[A]

Hi everybody. Suzio here. Now, what is the goal of money? The goal of money is for you to be secure. And there is no better way for you to be secure than having an emergency savings account. It is essential for your financial foundation. So all of you should be participating in the Ultimate Opportunity Savings account at Alliant Credit Union. Go to myalliant.com to find out more and be secure.

[B]

September 28, 2025 hi all. Robert, the producer here and welcome to the Women and Money podcast as well as everyone smart enough to listen. Unfortunately, there is some storm activity in the Atlantic Ocean and that is preventing Susie from transmitting for the podcast today. Now, nothing to worry about. She and KT are safe today for Susie School. You're going to get both KT and Susie again. And this is from a very special episode we published last fall. Enjoy.

[A]

Now, when it comes to money, there are many, many things that we have to learn when it comes to money. And it's not just about what to invest in, when to buy, when to sell. What about real estate? What about 529 plans? What about Roths? What about this? What about that? It's also about emotional lessons, psychological lessons, all kinds of personal lessons that we need to learn about ourselves in relationship to our money. Because sometimes money can make your life easier, sometimes it can make it harder. But as you well know by now, I firmly believe that you and your money are one and that your money is there sometimes to teach you what you need to learn about yourself. There is no greater teacher in life than money. And therefore, when you think about it, if you and your money are one, there's no greater teacher in life about your own life rather than yourself. And so to that end, today is going to be a different Susie School because not only is it going to be about what I'm just talking about now, but it's going to be a discussion. A conversation with who?

[C]

Kt. I'm here, everybody. She invited me to join her. And I love coming to Sunday school.

[A]

Right, Because I think it's important, because it is true that KT and I are one in so many ways, but we also have different experiences and different thoughts and different opinions. And this today, I think, is a Suzy school. Actually, I know it's a Suzy School that requires thought and a conversation, at least between me and kt. So I want KT to start by reading the email that we got that spurred the this Susie School first.

[C]

Happy Sunday, everybody. And Susie, thank you for asking me to join you because I really like this email. A lot. All right. It says, hi, Susie and kt. It's wild how much my life has changed in the two and a half years since I wrote you. I truly feel like Susie has been an important part of my life journey and I thought I'd share an update. I finally got the courage to stand in my truth and acknowledge that I wasn't happy in my marriage. And I did the hardest thing I've ever done, which was to leave my husband. My ex is a good person. I just knew that I deserved to be happy and to have the kind of love that the two of you so obviously share. Is that sweet, sweet Susie?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's nice. I thought that was really touching. So there was a podcast episode that was especially influential. I wish I remember the specific one, but Susie seemed to have been speaking to me directly in her tough love Susie voice. So not only you, Anna. I get that voice all the time. The pep talk she gave was about the importance of standing in your own truth and reminding us that we are strong and can handle hard things. I'm fortunate that the divorce was very easy as far as splitting assets, etc. I had enough cash to buy my ex out of the home equity of our townhouse, and I'm so very grateful that he transferred the deed to me, yet stayed on the mortgage so that I can keep our 2.65% rate.

[A]

So nice.

[C]

He's a good person. She said that as far as divorces go, it went as smooth as possible and I'm so happy it's behind me. So, Susie, Anna goes on now to say, I need another Susie pep talk. Suzy, I'd love to hear about your experience. When you started to make a lot of money, did you think you didn't deserve it? Did you feel guilty for having it? When there are people who have such challenging jobs that make so little comparatively, we know teachers, nurses, so on, did it make you doubt yourself professionally? I'm in this situation and I'm really struggling with it due to a combination of being very good at my job and getting very lucky. And then she says that she worked for a company that had a significant stock price growth and a lot of her pay is in stock. So she had a windfall, obviously. She said, I'll make about 1.4 million this year. And the thought of that is so absurd to me, almost ashamed to admit it. I know people would see this question and roll their eyes at me, but I can't help but feeling guilty. Remember that, Susie. I can't help but feeling guilty and under deserving of my income and the wealth that I'm building. I still think of the advice that you gave me two and a half years ago, which is that you never know what will happen to your income. I know that I probably won't keep this level of income forever, which is why I'm focused on saving and investing. But how can I get out of this mindset while still staying humble and grateful, yet also acknowledging to myself that I'm great at what I do? Thanks, Susie. I would really love to hear from you. So, so sweet. So what do you think about this?

[A]

The reason that I chose this email, kt, and that I wanted to do this because the way that Anna is feeling is not uncommon. I have gotten Anna because now I'm talking directly to you and everybody that might feel this way. The number of emails and people I have met that feel this way or come into an inheritance and they hide their, the fact that they've inherited millions of dollars from their family, yet nobody, not one of their friends, has a clue. It's like they are embarrassed by money. And so it's not just you, Ana, that feels that way. What would you say, kt, what do you want to say to her?

[C]

I think that one of the things I noticed after reading the email, Susie, is that Ana does know she's really great. What she does. But Ana, the one thing you didn't say, I'm so proud of myself. Like she didn't say she was proud of herself and acknowledging to herself or to anyone around her that she's so proud that she's been able to accomplish this, you know, great windfall and acknowledgement of how good she is at her job. Yeah, but she did. But wait, I have something else to say that you taught her the other thing that she acknowledged and she's smart because you told her, you said, Anna, you never know what can happen to your income. It's always a two way street.

[A]

Yeah. I think what Katie's trying to say there. Right. Is that your income can all of a sudden increase. But it's also true that something can happen in your life and you find yourself with no income, no money, all of that. But basically, Anna, here's what you will come to understand truthfully, sooner than later. It's not whether you deserved this or not. Just because somebody doesn't get money or doesn't have money doesn't mean that they're not deserving of money. Simply it means that you are in a position in the right place at the right time, working for the right company. And it was almost as if it was just fate that this would come your way. However, if you are not responsible with it, if you do not invest it carefully, if you do not do the right things with it, oh, trust me, the guilt that you're feeling right now about getting it will be 10 times as worse as as the guilt will be that you lost it or that something happened to it. How do you get over the fact of when I first got money? Because I didn't always have money. You know, the truth is, remember everybody, I did not write my first book Till I was 45 years of age, even though I was a financial Advisor making maybe 100,000 or $200,000 a year after taxes. Okay, whatever that would have been. It's not the same as when you get a ch in one year or one month for a one and a half million dollars or five million dollars, when all of a sudden those million dollar numbers start to come up. It's a very different feeling. Now, kt, I just have to say this. I'll never forget the first time that I got a check for $250,000 in one month from, you know, I had my own firm and that was the commission and everything, the fees that I had earned. I let that check sit on my kitchen counter for maybe two weeks. You looked at it every day.

[C]

Why? Because you couldn't believe it.

[A]

I couldn't believe it the first time I got a check for $60,000 when I actually switched from Merrill lynch to Prudential based securities. I took a picture of that check and I sent it to my mother. And my mother said she looked at that picture every single day for over a year. Because really, amounts of money can be unbelievable no matter what. So what would my advice be to you, Ana? My advice to you would be fear, shame, and anger are the three internal obstacles to wealth. And in your own words, you say. I'm almost ashamed to admit it with shame. Another word for shame could be guilt. At times they kind of go together on some level. Therefore, you have to understand that you don't want to become an obstacle in your path to wealth. And when I say wealth, the true definition of wealth is that which can never diminish. Because the truth of the matter, Anna, is money can come, money can go. But true wealth, how you feel about who you are, how you know who you are, your own self worth, when it is grounded in the truth of who you are, it can't diminish. And you already had the courage to stand in your truth, once. And to do what? Made you happy because you felt you deserved a life that made you happy? Why don't you feel that you deserve a life of wealth? Why are you smiling, kt?

[C]

Because that's what she needs to do. Anna needs to acknowledge that she did get this incredible lucky windfall because she's good at her job, the company's succeeding because of her contribution. And Anna, man, if it happened to me, I'd walk around with the biggest smile. So my friends say, kt, why are you so happy? What happened? And I would tell them, I just came into like this mountain of money, and I'm so excited because it's going to give me security to pay off my mortgage or do this or do that. I would actually tell people. And when you share that, right? When you share it, you get it out there.

[A]

But bingo, Katie, because so good. Because do all of you remember when I tell you that you have debt and when you hide the fact that you have debt from others, it makes you feel less than. It's fear, it's shame, and it's even anger at yourself for having created that debt. So what have I told you to do? Go and tell everybody how much debt you have? Anna, when you are afraid to tell people of this windfall, to do it with pride, then the same will happen. Fear and shame are ruling you right now. And like I said a little bit ago, when you come from that place, it is the main internal obstacle to wealth. So tell the people that you trust, tell the people that you love. Why wouldn't you think that they would be as happy for you as you need to be for yourself? Are you kidding me? With this money, you now can either pay off the mortgage, if you even had one on your home. Because remember, you said in this that your husband, ex husband, was kind enough to remain on the mortgage, but to give you the deed. So maybe you still have a mortgage. And even if it's at the 2.65% rate, maybe you take this money, pay off the mortgage, and free your husband. Give that gift back to your husband so he's no longer on the mortgage. So see this as a gift. Not just for yourself, but a gift for everybody. Yep.

[C]

Wait, I need to say something else.

[A]

Go.

[C]

You. You need to go celebrate. Listen, if. Get a handful of your best friends or a family dinner or whatever, go celebrate. Say, hey, everybody, I want to celebrate because I just had this fabulous windfall. But you need to celebrate and be strong in all of the convictions that you make to your and to everyone around you.

[A]

So I just want to say something as well. If you do get into a situation right now, you've accepted the fact that you have this money and you deserve it. And you deserve it. You worked for it. You know, and I know we keep saying the word luck. I'm not so sure it was luck you decided to stay in that corporation. You decided to invest in stock options. You made a lot of decisions in your life, Anna, and you're good at.

[C]

Your job and you know it.

[A]

That led you to where you are. Do not insult yourself like this. You know, for me, my speaking fees are very high. And I could feel guilty that major classical musicians that have studied their whole life, when they perform, maybe they get 25,000. I could feel guilty about a whole lot of things, but I don't. I know what I'm worth. I stand by what I'm worth. And I stand in that truth. And because I stand in that truth, people pay it. They wait to be able to do that with me. Now, Ana, you need to stand in that truth because you don't know this isn't going to happen again. You don't know that you're not going to get another paycheck that's above what you think you're going to get, you know? But you have to stay open to the probabilities of life and not think about anything other than what can be. So that's basically what you have to do. Now. How do you do that? You are to create a new truth for yourself because you have to retrain your brain, you have to retrain your heart. You have to retrain every molecule in your being to feel like you deserve this. And once you have created that new truth, I want you to write it down every single day, 25 times. Just sit down and write it 25 times. Every single day. I want you to scream it out loud 25 times. Maybe you're in the car, maybe you're somewhere. Just scream it. And right before you go to bed at night, I want you to look in the mirror and I want you to say it silently to yourself as you're looking back at yourself. At least 25 times. And I want you to do that every single day for at least six months. Every time your fear comes up, I want you to say it. You have got to quiet your fear and change how you think, feel and act, not only with money, but yourself. So what is the new truth?

[C]

She actually wrote her truth in this email.

[A]

And what is that?

[C]

And the truth is, I am Humble, grateful and great at what I do. And that is why I now am a millionaire. Bam.

[A]

All right, well, there you go.

[C]

There's your new truth. And you wrote it yourself. So you were up on the top of this email. She said she's ashamed, guilty, she's afraid of what people will say or think. And the only thing, Anna, is, I wish Susie and I knew how old you were because if we knew that, we could probably really richen up this lesson in terms of having this money. At what point in your life?

[A]

Maybe, but I'm not sure. I don't think that's true. Kt, I think this is a great lesson. No matter what point you are in your life. I hope those of you who are listening can feel that as well. Because many of you might get a big inheritance from your parents. Many of you may be in a position that you work for a technology company and you get a big windfall like Ana. Maybe some of you have listened to some of the stocks that Keith Fitzgerald or even myself have said, think about buying, like Palantir, so you just never know when. Or maybe you bought a house years ago and now it's worth a real fortune.

[C]

Or there's the lottery.

[A]

Or there's the lottery. That's true. So you never know in life. But I do know one thing. You all have to keep your hands open. Don't keep them closed, everybody. Don't hold on to your thoughts and your fear and your shame and the little amount of money that you think you have with tightened, closed hands. I know you have to open those hands. Keep them open to receive that which is meant to come your way. Because you can be the masters of your own financial destiny. You can have financial independence and financial freedom. You can have all of those things. But you have to not have shame, guilt, anger. You have to be grateful when that happens. You have to protect it when it happens. And you have to make sure that you invest it and save it wisely. What do you think? K.T.

[C]

I love that. I love that. I agree with you 100%. Invest it wisely.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And treat your friends to a little party or something. Maybe something celebrate. Money is something that again, it's the fabric of life. It's our currency of life. Use it that way.

[A]

Also remember, however, money will never define you. You have to define your money. KT will tell you it does not matter how wealthy I have become. It does not matter how famous I have become. Because what do I still think I am?

[C]

Kt A waitress, right? She still has the mentality of wanting to serve people and feel her joy doesn't come from her windfalls and her great wealth. It has always as long as I've known Susie, almost 25 years now. It comes from knowing she can help someone. And I hear her on the phone and I see what she writes and I hear what she tells people that she haphazardly meets in the street. It's giving advice that you know is going to help you them have a better financial life.

[A]

That is my true bank account. That is my true bank account that I will take with me no matter what. That is true wealth. So I hope you enjoyed this Suzy School for today. And remember, there's only one thing that matters when it comes to your money. And what is that, my sweet kt?

[C]

It's always people first, then money and then things.

[A]

And if you do that and stay safe and healthy, I promise you, you will be unstoppable.

[C]

We are strong, we are wise we will not apologize we are here we will thrive Together we will rise we're the little better and everything it takes we are strong, we are wise Together we will rise.

[A]

Hi everybody, Suzie O here now. If you are looking for a way to start saving to get the most out of your money, I want you to go to myalliant.com that's M y a l l I a n t dot com and look into opening an ultimate opportunity savings. Put in at least $100 a month every single month for 12 consecutive months. Earn 3.10% interest on your money right now and get $100 at the end. Are you kidding me? It's the best deal out there. Start saving right now.

[B]

Neither Susie Orman Media nor Susie Orman is acting as a Certified Financial Planner Advisor, a certified Financial Analyst, an economist, CPA accountant or lawyer. Neither Suze Orman Media nor Susie Orman make any recommendations as to any specific securities or investments. All content contained in this podcast is for informational and general purposes only and does not constitute financial accounting or legal advice. You should consult your own tax, legal and financial advisors regarding your particular situation. Neither Suze Orman Media nor Suze Orman accepts any responsibility for any losses which may arise from accessing or reliance on information in this podcast and to the fullest extent permitted by law. We exclude all liability for loss, damages, direct or indirect, arising from the use of this information. The must have documents discussed in this podcast are legal documents created by a lawyer and distributed by Hay House.