What Should I Do With my 401(k) When I Retire?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Suze Orman's Women & Money (And Everyone Smart Enough To Listen)

Episode: What Should I Do With My 401(k) When I Retire?

Date: August 28, 2025
Host: Suze Orman
Co-Host: KT

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Overview of Main Theme

This episode focuses on key financial decisions facing listeners as they approach retirement, centering on what to do with your 401(k) when you retire. Suze Orman and KT answer listeners' personal finance questions, ranging from handling 401(k) rollovers, Social Security survivor benefits, mortgage payoff strategies, to the use of limit orders in the stock market and the role of life insurance and trusts. Suze provides actionable advice grounded in her decades of financial experience, emphasizing security, suitability, and the importance of tailored, up-to-date guidance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The Importance of Context and Current Advice

• Suze emphasizes the importance of listening for the date of financial advice:
  • “The information changes. And what I told you to do four years ago is not what I’m telling you to do now. So everybody pay attention to the date.” (01:15)

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Mortgage Payoff vs. Liquidity (Crystal’s Question, 01:34)

• Situation: Crystal, 57, with 4.5 years left on a 3.3% mortgage, $85k liquid, wants to pay off mortgage using $50k and keep building her emergency fund.
• Suze’s Recommendation:
  • Don’t pay off the mortgage early if it means depleting liquidity, especially since interest is low and most interest has been paid upfront.
  • “Doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. So I don’t want you to do it.” (05:07)
  • Warning about home ownership structure:
    • “Do not make this both of your homes. This is your home. You’re going to keep it in just your name.” (05:41)
    • Suggests considering a term life insurance policy for her partner to protect Crystal’s financial interest.

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Social Security Survivor Benefits (Juan’s Question, 06:54)

• Situation: Juan asks if his husband can claim his higher Social Security benefit if Juan dies before claiming.
• Suze’s Advice:
  • Survivor benefits are different; you do not need to collect first.
    • “Yes, he can claim your Social Security.” (07:37)
    • Explains the difference between survivor and spousal benefits, emphasizing eligibility for increased benefit.

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Rolling Over a Roth 401(k) (Tim’s Question, 08:24)

• Situation: Tim’s wife leaving employer, has $148k in Roth 401(k), wants to roll into Roth IRA; employer match is pretax.
• Key Points:
  • Roth 401(k) can be rolled into a Roth IRA; employer match goes into a traditional IRA.
  • Starting the 5-year clock:
    • “If she opens a Roth IRA today, even with a dollar, if she qualifies for one, then the five year clock has started…” (09:06)
  • Pro tip: Open a Roth IRA early with any amount to get the clock running.

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Limit vs. Market Orders in Stocks (Sharon’s Question, 10:19)

• Explanation by Suze:
  • Market order: Buy/sell at current market price.
  • Limit order: Buy/sell at a specified price.
  • Risks:
    • “A lot of times if you put a limit order too close to the market of what’s happening, the traders will just have it go down there, pick up your limit order…so just be careful.” (12:45)
  • Recommends using alerts for price targets to stay informed.

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What Should I Do With My 401(k) When I Retire? (Listener’s Question, 14:40)

• Situation: Listener retiring at 68, uncertain where to move her 401(k).
• Suze’s Guidance:
  • Default is often to roll into a traditional IRA via a direct, custodian-to-custodian rollover—liquidate funds first.
  • Essential question: Are you comfortable managing those assets yourself?
  • “Just because you’re not exactly sure…makes me a little bit protective of you. Because if you don’t even know where to move it…I don’t know you would know what to do with it once you moved it. So probably I would be telling you to leave it exactly where it is until you know.” (18:19)
  • Option: Roll over part and try it out.
  • If account has $5,000 or more, can usually leave it in ex-employer’s plan.

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On Annuities and Insurance for Tax Purposes (Michelle’s Question, 19:24)

• Situation: 50-year-old single woman with $2.3M savings asks if annuities or life insurance make sense for taxes/income.
• Suze’s Response:
  • Strongly recommends against annuities or insurance policies as investment/tax strategies:
    • “On no level do I want you to touch an annuity, to touch any type of life insurance policy or any insurance investment…Do you hear me? That’s it. Period.” (20:27)
  • Recommends municipal bonds, dividend/value/growth stocks, not worrying excessively about taxes.
  • Humorous remark: “You are not going to do this over my dead body. And as you can tell, my body is not dead.” (21:59)

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Trusts, Power of Attorney, and Incapacity (Barbara’s Question, 22:04)

• Barbara asks why both a revocable trust and power of attorney are needed for incapacity.
• Suze’s Clarification:
  • Trust governs only assets placed in trust; power of attorney covers non-trust assets such as IRAs, employer plans.
  • Both are essential, but banks often resist powers of attorney; have both for full protection:
    • “A power of attorney at a bank…may give you problems because they don’t like dealing with power of attorneys…So both of those documents are essential.” (23:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The goal of money is for you to be secure.” — Suze Orman (00:00)
• On moving 401(k): “Just because you’re not exactly sure…makes me a little bit protective of you.” (18:19)
• On relationships and joint ownership:
  • “Do not make this both of your homes. This is your home. Their money that they pay goes for rent because they’re living there. And you keep it like that. Girlfriend, trust me on this one.” (05:41)
• On annuities:
  • “You are not going to do this over my dead body. And as you can tell, my body is not dead.” (21:59)
• Playful banter:
  • “KT does both those things to the extreme.” (19:11)
  • "Suze Orman: I want to hear something even more amazing. He seriously loves me the most." (14:40)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | Crystal’s Mortgage Payoff | 01:34 – 06:43 | | Social Security Survivor Benefits | 06:54 – 08:24 | | Roth 401(k) Rollovers & 5-Year Rule | 08:24 – 10:19 | | Limit vs. Market Orders | 10:19 – 14:21 | | Rolling Over 401(k) at Retirement | 14:40 – 18:43 | | Annuities, Insurance & Taxes | 19:24 – 22:04 | | Trusts vs. Power of Attorney | 22:04 – 23:23 |

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Takeaways

• The most critical factor is your financial comfort and security; don’t act before you’re ready.
• Keep liquidity if you have a low mortgage; don’t tie up cash.
• Survivor Social Security benefits can be claimed even if the deceased didn’t claim yet.
• Open a Roth IRA early to “start the clock” for transferring Roth 401(k) funds.
• Use limit orders in stock trading carefully; consider using alerts.
• Avoid annuities and life insurance for tax purposes; focus on smart allocation of regular investments.
• Have both a revocable trust and financial power of attorney for comprehensive financial security.

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Closing Words (from Suze & KT)

• “We want your money to make more money.” (24:12)
• “You stay safe and healthy. Bye.” (24:19)

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This episode empowers listeners to make secure, informed choices with their retirement assets and personal finances, always centering on security and confidence as the foundation for any move.

Transcript

[Suze Orman]

Hi, everybody. Suzio here. Now, what is the goal of money? The goal of money is for you to be secure. And there is no better way for you to be secure than having an emergency savings account. It is essential for your financial foundation. So all of you should be participating in the Ultimate Opportunity savings account at Alliant Credit Union. Go to myalliant.com to find out more. And be secure.

[Katie]

Good morning, Everybody. It is August 28, 2025, and we would like to welcome you to the Women and Money Ask KT and Susie Anything podcast.

[Suze Orman]

Oh, you did so good.

[Katie]

That was good. Right before this one, we did five takes and she said, no, no, no, Katie, we have to give them one. They're not going to want to listen to all your redos. Okay, my first question, for some reason.

[Suze Orman]

Everybody, she can't get it that she should say the date first.

[Katie]

I never get the date first. I welcome you to the Women and Money podcast.

[Suze Orman]

But kt, the date is really important. Know why?

[Katie]

Because it changes.

[Suze Orman]

The information changes. And what I told you to do four years ago is not what I'm telling you to do now. So everybody pay attention to the date. Date that you're listening to something and the date that you're listening to it, and then you'll know how you should listen to it.

[Katie]

Hi, Susie. I'm 57, continuing my 39 plus year career. Wow. Congratulations, Christy.

[Suze Orman]

What does she do?

[Katie]

I don't know.

[Suze Orman]

Well, something she must like.

[Katie]

Something like me.

[Suze Orman]

I've been doing this 40 years and I love what I do.

[Katie]

So Crystal says I have a 401k and 2 Roth IRAs. I have 4 1/2 years left to. To pay on my mortgage. My domestic partner and I want.

[Suze Orman]

Did you notice how she just said my mortgage? All right, go on.

[Katie]

My domestic partner and I want to pay off the mortgage now just in case something happens to one of our jobs. Yeah, I would do that.

[Suze Orman]

And what does that tell you? That says that if they don't have income coming in, they don't have enough money to pay the mortgage.

[Katie]

Well, it says I have about 85,000 liquid, of which 50,000 would go towards paying my half.

[Suze Orman]

Yeah, but she's 57. Go on.

[Katie]

Okay. I would only have 35,000 liquid left, but I would keep building my emergency fund. After paying off the mortgage, my interest rate is 3.3%.

[Suze Orman]

All right, now wait, stop, stop. Really? What this tells us, KT, is if her half would be $50,000, that means her partner's half would be 50,000. That means they owe $100,000 left on this mortgage. And that mortgage is at 3.3%, which is going to be paid off in four and a half years anyway. Now, this is all key, what I'm saying to you. All right, go on.

[Katie]

I've been paying $750 extra on the principal every month.

[Suze Orman]

Notice. She said I have been paying.

[Katie]

Yes, yes, yes. For three years since my partner moved in. Okay. Partner's only been there for a little bit.

[Suze Orman]

I go on.

[Katie]

My guess is that you will tell me to keep doing that. Well, we are just eager to get out from under a mortgage and we have no other bills.

[Suze Orman]

That's the first time she said we.

[Katie]

We have no other bills. So I thought I would just ask. So this is really you and Krista.

[Suze Orman]

So crystal. As I look into my crystal ball. Anyway, it bothers me, right, in that the house obviously is in your name, the mortgage is in your name, everything is in your name. Your partner has moved in with you and reason that you're able to pay extra money towards your mortgage is they are paying you, in essence, rent for this. You have to be very careful because if all of a sudden your partner puts a lump sum of money like $50,000 into this, that very well could make this house, in their opinion, theirs. And there's just something about it that I don't like. Your partner has only been living with you for three years. Now, I don't know how long you've been with your partner, but I like when you own your own home, when it's all yours, that you're taking rent from your partner and that your partner really doesn't have a say in this. Now, obviously you were doing okay before your partner moved in and you were able to to pay this mortgage rather than you taking money from your $85,000 that you have liquid. If you're afraid, if something happens to you and you lose your job or whatever, why don't you just keep that money safe and sound in an account that if something happened, you would be able to continue from it, to still pay your mortgage, because with only four and a half years left, you've already paid all the interest up front, you're paying principal. So it makes no sense for you to give up money that's probably making 4.5%, 5%, where, in a high yield savings account to pay off a 3.3% interest mortgage that really you've already paid. That all up front. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So I don't want you to do it. However, maybe to protect yourself, your partner should get a term insurance policy on him or her. And if they're around the same age as you, you know, even $100,000 term policy, if something happened to them besides losing a job, it's only like $400 a year for 100,000. So maybe it's $300 a year at this age, if they're in good health, a non smoker and everything like that for their half. So they could do that. But no, I would not be doing this. And do not make this both of your homes. This is your home. You're going to keep it in just your name. Their money that they pay goes for rent because they're living there. And you keep it like that. Girlfriend, trust me on this one. All right, Go on, kt.

[Katie]

Trust her, Crystal. Okay. Yeah, because we've read these emails before. Trust her, Crystal.

[Suze Orman]

But after the fact of what's gone wrong. Okay, I don't want anything to go wrong.

[Katie]

This next question is from Juan. Hi, ladies. Thank you for your podcast. I started listening during the COVID shutdown and I found it very, very, very helpful. My husband and I both turned 60 this year. We've been married for over 10 years. We aspire to hold off collecting Social Security till we're 70, barring major health or market events. Our financial plan. Well, let us do this. My Social Security check is projected to be 30% higher than my husband's. If I die before him and I have not started collecting Social Security, will he be able to collect my higher Social Security?

[Suze Orman]

Yes.

[Katie]

Well, there you go.

[Suze Orman]

Yeah. Very simple. Different than a spousal Social Security claim where their spouse or ex spouse has had to start claiming Social Security for you to get a percentage of it. A survivor benefit is very different. You do not need to be collecting it. In fact, let's just say at 67, your full retirement age. Really, your primary insurance amount is $2,500. Let's say you die at 69. He can collect that increase even though you didn't claim yet at 2,900. So, yes, he can claim your Social Security. All right, kt.

[Katie]

Okay, so next question's from Tim. Hi, Susan. Kt. My wife is about to leave her current employer. She has approximately 148,000 in a Roth 401K that will need to be moved to a rollover IRA. She does not currently have a Roth IRA, but if she were to open one at Fidelity prior to leaving her employer, could the Roth 401 be rolled into the Roth IRA?

[Suze Orman]

Yes, absolutely.

[Katie]

However, her employer's contributions to her Roth also after tax or tax deferred. Is there a way to tell?

[Suze Orman]

Yeah, I'm sure if she looks, she will see that the match from her 401k contributions from her employer is in a pre tax account. So that could go into an IRA and her other money could go into a Roth ira. However, the five year clock will start the day that she converts there. If she opens a Roth IRA today, even with a dollar, if she qualifies for one, then the five year clock has started and the five year clock has run. And then she put her 401k money, Roth money, into a Roth IRA. She would have met the five year rule. That is why I tell all of you, open up a Roth IRA in your individual name. I don't care if you only fund it with a dollar, especially if you have money in a Roth IRA. 401K, start the clock now. All right, Katie.

[Katie]

So when they do the rollover, there's no starting a clock again.

[Suze Orman]

That's so if she's now depending on her age, if she wants to take out money, the earnings and everything, it's all tax free, she doesn't have to wait five years. All right.

[Katie]

Okay, next is from Sharon. Hi Susie and kt. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Every time I listen, I always learn something new from you and kt. So I have a question about the use of limited orders when buying or selling a stock, especially in this volatile market.

[Suze Orman]

Yes.

[Katie]

I don't have the time to watch the market each day. I realize I wouldn't catch the highs or lows of the market this way, but that's hard to do. Anyway, what are your thoughts on limited buys and sells? She's an 83 year old still with a lot to learn. So appreciate you both sharing your wisdom. Okay, this isn't both sharing wisdom. This is Susie sharing her wisdom. Sharon, this isn't a kt.

[Suze Orman]

Do you know what a limit order is? Kt?

[Katie]

No.

[Suze Orman]

Do you know what a market order is? Why are you looking at her?

[Katie]

Well, I'm just trying to figure out a market order. No, there you go.

[Suze Orman]

That's that, that's.

[Katie]

There you go. That's why this is a susie wisdom, not KT's.

[Suze Orman]

When you are buying or selling a share of stock, when you put in your order, if it's online or if you deal with a financial advisor, they'll ask you this question. Do you want it to be a market order? A market order simply is you put it in to buy or sell. And whatever the stock is trading in the market at that time, you get that price, period. So it will automatically be filled. A limit order is you want to buy or sell it at a specific price, so you're limiting what you can buy or sell it at. The next question you're going to be asked, is it a good till cancel order or a day only order? So you could put in a limit order to buy or sell a share of stock or all of your stock, however you want to do it. And you can make it just for that day. You just want to see what happens that day. Or in this case, Sharon doesn't want to watch it. She doesn't care. Right. She's got better things to do. So therefore, she could make it good till cancel. So until she physically cancels it, that limit order is good. And if the price of the stock hits her limit order, whatever amount she put in it will automatically sell. So up to you if you want to do that or not. A lot of times if you put a limit order too close to the market of what's happening, the traders will just have it go down there, pick up your limit order, and then wipe it out because they know that they have orders showing the stock's going to be going up. So just be careful with limit orders, however, it doesn't hurt if you know, you want to sell something to just glance on it or get an alert. When a stock hits a certain price, make sure that you get a text or an email saying, oh, Sharon, the stock just hit this price. Maybe you need to do something. Pay attention, pay attention. All right.

[Katie]

Do you remember? I remember my brother Johnny was working on the Chicago exchange. I'll never forget this. He went on vacation and he was responsible for a great deal of money for one of his clients. And he put it on a limit. He did that. And we had that big crash, that unforeseen huge crash. John became a hero overnight because he put it on a limit so that guy, that client, didn't lose anything. And John was like this hero. Everyone thought, like, how did you know? And he didn't. It just happened that he went on vacation that week.

[Suze Orman]

Go on.

[Katie]

All right.

[Suze Orman]

But a limit order can also work against you.

[Katie]

So, you know. Okay, next question.

[Suze Orman]

That was KT's very sweet way of being able to mention her brother Johnny, who she loves. Yeah, she loves this boy so much, even though he's no longer a boy. He just turned 60, but God, she loves him. And guess what, everybody.

[Katie]

So do you.

[Suze Orman]

So do I.

[Katie]

All Right. Hello.

[Suze Orman]

I want to hear something even more amazing. He seriously loves me the most.

[Katie]

The most. Hey Susie, I'm sure you have probably answered this question before, but I've just started listening to your podcast. I want to move my 401k into something. Since I'm about to retire next year at 68, where should I move it?

[Suze Orman]

Well, you know, again, these questions are kind of all similar kt, but here she is.

[Katie]

I would roll it over to a.

[Suze Orman]

Roth IRA, but she has a 401. She didn't tell you she had a Roth 401. She said she has a 401.

[Katie]

Yeah. Where should she move it?

[Suze Orman]

You don't say how much money you have in this 401. The only number you use here is the number 68. So for a long time, obviously you've gotten very used to how the 401k works, the investments in the 401. And you probably feel very comfortable with it when you roll it to, let's say an IRA rollover. And it would be a traditional IRA rollover. Why? Because you don't want to owe taxes on it when you do so. And it would be a custodian to custodian rollover. You want it to go directly from Your employer sponsored 401 into your IRA rollover at a brokerage firm. When you do that, they have to liquidate everything that's in your 401, all the mutual funds and everything, and it's cash that will roll over. Now you're going to have to decide on your own how do you want to invest that money. Do you want to invest it all at once? Do you want a dollar cost average? So the question I turn back to you is how comfortable do you feel doing that? Because I can tell you if it's a large amount when you roll it over to a brokerage firm. Oh, you're going to have some financial advisor saying, I, I think you should do this, I think you should do that. Let's buy an annuity, let's do this, let's do that. So just depending on your knowledge, your comfort level, because remember, the goal of money is for you to be secure and it may just be that you are secure with it in your 401k at your ex employers where it happens to be invested. Maybe it's all invested in a Standard and Poor's 500 fund or something like that. So the question now reverts right back to you girlfriend, are you comfortable where it is or do you feel secure enough for it to go to an IRA rollover and invest it once it's at the IRA rollover, little by little, you could convert it to a Roth IRA so that as you get older you have more and more money in your Roth ira and then you won't have to be subjected to required minimum distributions. What?

[Katie]

Katie, I have a question. Can she leave that for as long as she wishes in her 401?

[Suze Orman]

Yeah, as long as it's $5,000 or more. She can leave it at her ex employer's 401 plan, which she may feel more comfortable with. Again, the goal of money is for you to be secure. So the question is also you don't have to do it all. Maybe you take half of it and roll it to an IRA rollover and see how it feels or a small amount of money. But just because you're not exactly sure and you're saying where should I move? Makes me a little bit protective of you. Because if you don't even know where to move it, I don't know, you would know what to do with it once you moved it. So probably I would be telling you to leave it exactly where it is until you know I would too. Well, there you go. All right, kt.

[Katie]

So next question is from Michelle Michel.

[Suze Orman]

Here she goes.

[Katie]

Ma belle du. I used to know the French words that go after that.

[Suze Orman]

Here's the thing. That's so funny. Katie thinks she can sing.

[Katie]

I can sing. I sing all the time. I don't have a great singing voice, but I love to sing. I can sing.

[Suze Orman]

You know, there's a saying. Not my saying, but sing like nobody can hear you. Dance like nobody is watching.

[Katie]

I danced.

[Suze Orman]

And KT does both those things to the extreme. All right, go on.

[Katie]

Like no one's watching except Susie. And sometimes she records it, which I get very angry and then posts it on the wall.

[Suze Orman]

I go on.

[Katie]

All right, ready? I know that you are not a fan of life insurance policies, but I'm wondering if it makes sense for tax purposes.

[Suze Orman]

No.

[Katie]

And income? In my case, no. Well, you're already answering her because it.

[Suze Orman]

Never makes sense for tax purposes.

[Katie]

Okay, I am a 50 year old single woman with no kids. I have a paid off house and I have $2.3 million in savings between brokerage, 401k IRA and Roth IRA accounts.

[Suze Orman]

You know why she has so much money?

[Katie]

Yeah. Single and no kids.

[Suze Orman]

That's right. That's the key.

[Katie]

All right, so about 700,000 is in my brokerage, which is how I would fund the annuity policy. What should I be aware of and look out for before getting this type of annuity.

[Suze Orman]

She doesn't say what type it is.

[Katie]

I think she means an insurance annuity. Susie, in your opinion, is it better to just buy rental property for the same purpose?

[Suze Orman]

So the purpose obviously is avoiding taxes with it. See, here's what I don't understand. Rental property, even rental property, right? No, she can do rental properties. You could do an REIT. REITs are starting to come up nicely now, but they will pay you income that's taxable. Michelle, you have to understand that on no level do I want you to touch an annuity, to touch any type of life insurance policy or any insurance investment. On any level. It makes no sense. Do you hear me? That's it. Period. However, if you continue investing this money in dividend paying stocks and or growth stocks, value stocks, you just keep investing it, dollar cost averaging in your brokerage firm. You're not paying taxes on the growth of that money. You don't buy a stock just to own it for a year and then later on in life as this money has been growing up and up and up, if you decide to sell. So it's at the capital gains tax rate. Don't worry about taxes. You're saying you're wondering if it makes sense for tax purposes. Income in your case. Listen, do a municipal bond, do things like that and not pay taxes on it. But no, the answer is very simple. You are not going to do this over my dead body. And as you can tell, my body is not dead.

[Katie]

All right, that was funny. Okay, final question from Barbara. Dear Susan, kt, when you talk about the benefits of a revocable trust, you mentioned the incapacity clause. My husband and I have a revocable trust as well as the other must have documents. But I was curious as to why a financial power of attorney would not address the incapacity issue. There you go. She wants you to make her more financially secure.

[Suze Orman]

So here's the scoop, everybody, right? A revocable trust with an incapacity only governs the assets that are in a trust. There are assets like an IRA and employer retirement plans, assets not titled in the trust that a power of attorney governs. It is just that simple. So you need both. But I will tell you this. A power of attorney at a bank, when you present it may give you problems because they don't like dealing with power of attorneys because they don't know is it null and void? What does it govern all these things? So both of those documents are essential.

[Katie]

That is a Wrap it is, yes.

[Suze Orman]

Are you making these podcasts shorter and shorter?

[Katie]

A little bit, yeah. Ask me why.

[Suze Orman]

Why?

[Katie]

People remember more information if there's less. They do. I do. And if I can remember it, if I can quote you on what to do with a Roth, because you didn't give me so many options. Front door, back door, side door, under, then that's how I learn. Less is more.

[Suze Orman]

You know KT loves to back herself into a corner, right?

[Katie]

No corner. No corners.

[Suze Orman]

This is a corner that you backed yourself into.

[Katie]

Okay, we're gonna say there's only one thing we want because no matter how.

[Suze Orman]

Short or long or whatever, she still doesn't know anything about it.

[Katie]

There's only one thing we want you to remember, and it's this. We want your money to make more money.

[Suze Orman]

All right, everybody, until next time, you stay safe and healthy. Bye.

[Katie]

Bye. Bye.

[Chorus/Singer]

We are strong, we are wise we will not apologize we are here we will thrive Together we will rise Everything it takes we are strong we are wise Together we will rise.

[Suze Orman]

Hi, everybody. Suzy O Here now. If you are looking for a way to start saving to get the most out of your money, I want you to go to myalliant.com that's M Y A L L I-A-N-T.com and look into opening an ultimate opportunity savings account. Put in at least dollar month every single month for 12 consecutive months. Earn 3.10% interest on your money right now and get $100 at the end. Are you kidding me? It's the best deal out there. Start saving right now.

[Disclaimer Narrator]

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