← Suze Orman's Women & Money (And Everyone Smart Enough To Listen)
Suze Orman's Women & Money (And Everyone Smart Enough To Listen)
Winning Money Moves During Uncertain Times
00:26:39
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, everybody. Suzio here. Now, what is the goal of money? The goal of money is for you to be secure. And there is no better way for you to be secure than having an emergency savings account. It is essential for your financial foundation. So all of you should be participating in the ultimate opportunity savings account at Alliant Credit Union. Go to myalliant.com to find out more. And be secure. March 8, 2026. Welcome, everybody. Today is International Women's Day, and we also have a surprise for you, but kind of a regular now we're having Keith Fitzgerald, better known as Fitzy, according to me, although KT is like, Susie, address him properly as Mr. Keith Fitzgerald. How do you feel about me calling you Fitzy? Fitzy?
- [01:04]
B
I love it. This is great. And kt, I love you, but I'll go with Fitzy.
- [01:10]
A
So the reason, everybody, that I wanted Fitzy to come back on to the Women in Money podcast is this. The times are crazy. I'm getting thousands of emails from all of you saying, susie, I don't know what to do. We're at war. Should I sell everything? I think I should get out of tech and get into defense. And today is really here to calm you down again, because as we speak, we are at war. Oil is skyrocketing. Tech is still something that all of you are scared of. And you need something solid direction, in my opinion, when it comes to the financial markets. And truthfully, nobody in my opinion is better than that than Keith Fitzgerald, or as I call him, Fitzy. So, Keith, seriously, are these hard times? Are these times to be worried? Are these times for people to be selling? What are these times that are happening right now, in your opinion?
- [02:15]
B
Well, I'd be lying if I didn't feel the angst, too. I mean, I'm a father, I'm a husband, you know, we're a military family. I mean, this stuff is for real. It's scary. There's angst creeping around the edges. The other thing to think about is that this is not our first rodeo, Susie. In fact, conflict like this, as upsetting as it actually is, sets the stage for what happens next. Even the fiercest fighting eventually stops. So the real problem right now with the markets is actually your emotions and the person looking out at you in the mirror. And that's. That's the person you need to get under control, because the companies and the profits, they'll follow.
- [02:51]
A
And if you were to go back, if you can, and look at all the wars, maybe not all of them, but a lot of the wars that have happened after they were over. What did the markets do?
- [03:05]
B
Well, that's an interesting and very important question for everybody listening today. If we look back at 10 major conflicts over the last 35 years, there's some surprising data that shows up and to the point about calm and not being our first rodeo. Let this stuff sink in. So in August 1990, Iraq invaded Kuwait. The S&P 500 dropped 16.9% over 71 days. Every headline screams sell. Every talking head said, the end is upon us. People who sold at the bottom locked in, you know, 17% loss. But investors who bought at the bottom and who reinvested all the way through that conflict made at least 24% in under five months. All right, so that's just one of the conflicts. If we look even at the horrific events of 911 in 2001. Right. I mean, I lost friends that day, like many people did the worst attack in American history. Markets closed for four days. The spy dropped 11.6% in a single week. And again, everybody said, you know, wow, this is terrible. This is the end. But in fact, the markets bottomed on September 21, and by December had recovered 21.2% from that low in just 10 weeks. And then, if you go to 2003, the US invaded Iraq. The market had already sold off 14.7% in the lead up. Very similar to this fear had been priced in for months. But Again, markets rallied 27% in the year that followed. And finally, if we go to 2020, where we had the Soleimani strike, markets barely move. Covid came in afterwards, and The S&P 500 exploded 67% in the following few months. So the thing that you want to think about, and again, is uncomfortable. And as disconcerting as this is, every investor who sells out now is making an emotional decision under the guise of being rational, when being rational is really what you want to do. Because the numbers present something very, very different. The Average recovery is 16%, but here
- [05:06]
A
you are, they're going down and down, but you're stuck because you don't have any more cash. What do you do then?
- [05:13]
B
Well, there's two things to think about, right? Number one, now is the time to make sure you're comfortable with the companies you own. Say you don't have any more cash. Take a hard look at are you comfortable with every single company that you own? And if you're not, the question to ask yourself is, do I want to own this in five years or will I regret not owning it in five years. And if the answer is I don't know what this company does and I'm not comfortable with it, now is actually the time to sell. But if you've been buying great companies all along, then now's the time. You take a deep breath, you remember the numbers that I've just shared with you and you just ride this thing out. As uncomfortable as it's going to be, history shows there is never in recorded human history been a war for which the markets have not come back.
- [05:59]
A
And the reason everybody that I wanted Keith on is that I've been telling you this now for years, for over 40 years that I've been doing this. But I think it's very important that you also hear a second opinion that it's not just Susie saying do this, keep investing, do that. It's important when we check with each other, don't you think, Keith, to make sure that we're still on the same wavelength, right?
- [06:23]
B
Well, absolutely. You and I talk very, very regularly to do exactly that. Because you know, even we check with each other because we want to make certain we have clear guidance, we know where the road is going. We already know where the road has been. So it's important we stay focused on where the road is going. And you've done that better than anybody for 40 something years.
- [06:41]
A
Here we are, we're seeing oil spike again. So should people be buying oil, selling oil, what should they be doing at this point in time if they happen to own energy stocks or they want to own energy stocks, in your opinion?
- [06:59]
B
Well, that's a very important question, a very important distinction because you don't want to chase oil for oil's sake. What you want to do is chase oil with great companies that produce it, store it and move it and let it go around the world. So a company like Chevron, for example, which has a great dividend, it has balanced upside and downside, distribution and production, meaning that it's not just the stuff coming out of the ground, it's how they process it, where it goes, who are they selling it to? A company like Chevron can make money at $30 a barrel and it can make money at $100 a barrel. So forget about chasing oil just because it's going up. Concentrate on finding a great company that can maneuver with oil no matter whether it goes up or down.
- [07:40]
A
I'm going to put you on the spot here. I already know your answer, by the way. So if you are going to pick one energy company, oil company people want to participate. They see it in the 80s it's probable it's going to go to 100. Would you be buying Chevron right here via a dollar cost averaging basis?
- [08:00]
B
Without a doubt. I own plenty of it and I hope to own a lot more because I like the same things we're talking about. I like stability, I like growth, I like being able to sleep at night. And most of all, I really like the dividend because that's cold, hard cash. So to return to our early examp, if you're investing in companies like this, you're never really out of cash. You've always got a dividend coming in, for example, and that can be reinvested in Chevron or even turned to other opportunities.
- [08:27]
A
Now tell everybody why you just said a second ago they're going to make money, the oils are up. Tell everybody why Chevron isn't going to be as effective as much about what's happening out there as many other oil companies will be.
- [08:42]
B
Well, sure, one of the beauties of Chevron, right, And one of the reasons why I continue to focus on it to the exclusion of all of the other oil majors is that they've got distributed production around the world. So if we have problems in the Middle east, they can shift to Guyana, they can shift to South America, they can go back to Venezuela because they never left. They have stuff in the Permian basin that's functionally profitable at $30 to $40 a barrel. So it's a company that has a well rounded, very defensible, to borrow a term from Uncle Buffet, moat around it. And it's, I think, one of the finest companies in the world that you can buy. Great dividend, great stability and, and we're going to need dinosaur juice for a long time to come.
- [09:22]
A
So all of you, here's what I really want you to get from this. Especially with the oil companies and dividends. You have to look at a company not just at the yield it's giving you. Okay? You look at the stock and go, oh my God, it's going to give me a 7% dividend. You have to make sure that the dividend is safe. You have to know, does the company itself have diversification within the company so that if something happens in X, they still have Y to produce money for them? Which is why I wanted to bring up this topic. Keith, would you go so far to say that if people have other oil companies right now and they see them going up, how do they check to make sure that they're not exposed to them going back down or danger again? Should they Transfer to a stock like Chevron. What would you tell them at this point in time?
- [10:15]
B
Well, that's an interesting question. You know, obviously everybody has very different positions. If you've held the stock for a long time and it's a legacy stock and it's working for you, then okay, that's fine. But if you're concerned about the company's longevity like I am, for example, which is why I own only Chevron in the oil majors, you want to check three things. You want to check where do they produce their oil. You want to check how much debt do they carry? Because if they carry a lot of debt, that means their break even is much, much higher and they're subject to the price of the underlying oil shifting around. And finally, you want to look at management. Does management again, you get this from an annual report, you can do it in 20 minutes.
- [10:51]
A
Do you get to say, wait, wait, wait a minute. You just said you can get it from an annual report. Nobody knows where to get an annual report. Keith, you know where to get an annual report.
- [11:01]
B
No, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on.
- [11:02]
A
All right, go on.
- [11:04]
B
We got this great thing called the Internet, right? So what I would encourage any investor who's concerned about this to do is forget the chat rooms, forget the ticker stuff that just go right to the company. There's going to be a little section on their website says investor relations. Pull up their most recent annual report, read through it, take 20 minutes. Because annual reports will give you an instant snapshot of where the company is. And you will know really quickly whether the company walks a talk or talks the walk. In a company like Chevron, for example, if you read the annual report even quickly, you're going to see that they're the real deal. If you read an annual report from another company, maybe you're going to see management hemming and hawing. Maybe you're going to see some of the dog ate my home kind of language. Maybe you're going to get the sense that, hey, they really produce 90% of their oil in the Middle East. It doesn't have to be complicated. Because even a rank amateur, even my grandmother used to say, you know, even the simplest farmer can figure out where the most complex crops grow. And you just look right at that annual report, you'll know in 10 minutes whether.
- [12:03]
A
All right, now let's say they don't want to do that, okay? If they went to ChatGPT or any of the AI devices that are out there and they put in the things that you just said, what Is management, what, Whatever. Would they get the correct answers there? Would they?
- [12:20]
B
I would like to think they're going to get the correct answer, but in many cases they won't because they're going to get an amalgamation of what ChatGPT thinks is the correct answer. So this is one of those things, like if you're a doctor, right, the doctors look right at the patients. If you look just at an EKG machine, you're going to know some information, but it's better to look at the patient. So look right at the patient in an instance like this, because if your fears are getting the better of you, that's the sure antidote. That's the way to fix this, is to look right at the patient, which is in this case, the individual oil company.
- [12:50]
A
So for those of you that get afraid, an annual report. I have to do that. Can you just try it? Can you just try doing it, Reading a little bit about it? It's not as scary as you think. And how many times do I have to say to you, what happens to your money directly affects the quality of your life, not anybody else's life. So what we're trying to do here is not just tell you what to do. We're trying to educate you as to how to do it, how you can know for yourself. Because especially on International Women's Day, all of you have to really own the power to control your destiny. And one of the ways that I want you to do it, Keith wants you to do it seriously, is to know where to go on your own to get the information that you need. Switching topics for a second here. So many emails saying, what defense stock should I buy? Should I sell my tech and should I get into defense? Now I've told them what I thought in the podcast. Now it's your turn.
- [13:57]
B
Well, again, you know, ask yourself very simply, look in the mirror. Do we need both of these things for a very long time to come? And if you're an investor, you get one answer. If you're a trader, a speculator, or a ticker tourist, you get another. Right? My impression, my point of view is that we need these things for a very long time to come. And many defense stocks are in fact tech stocks and vice versa. So, yes, I would submit we do need these things, but I wouldn't sell either of them, honestly.
- [14:25]
A
So you wouldn't sell defense here, you wouldn't sell tech here?
- [14:29]
B
Nope. As a matter of fact, I'd do the exact opposite. I'd be buying more tech in particular, because those businesses you Know, despite the short term noise, Susan, despite the fear that's raging through the headlines right now, the angst that we all feel, you know, many of those tech companies are growing at double, triple digit rates. You know, the short term market noise has very little to do with the business case for owning the world's greatest companies. Tech in particular. People want to make it complicated all the time. And that's what we struggle with. Right. You know, people like me, I try to explain it simply. Suzy does it really well, and I try to emulate her because I've learned from Susie over the years. But, you know, you've got to just keep it really, really simple. Where do I go from here? And the answer is we're probably going to need both of those things for a long time. And tech in particular is beaten down to the point where the value of that company in the market's opinion is equivalent to something like a consumer stock, meaning where you go buy your bread and butter, quite literally, or your tennis shoes or whatever. And that makes no sense because, you know, tennis shoes, you have to buy a pair of shoes every time you want to turn a profit. But a tech company, you change a few lines of code and you produce billions of dollars. So the scale is much more significant, which is why when they're on sale, you want to go for the tech, not the shoes.
- [15:48]
A
So let me ask you this. For energy, you gave them Chevron.
- [15:52]
B
Yep.
- [15:53]
A
If you were going to give them one stock for tech, what would that stock be?
- [15:59]
B
Today? It's going to be Microsoft. When you think about how many people use Microsoft around the world, people think about it as software. But I submit the real business of Microsoft is bringing people together. It brings them together through Word and Excel and all the document processing we do every single day on the computer. But it brings together the big data through Azure, it's cloud storage, it brings together gamers, it brings together processing medical records. So the company's really about this huge ball that is humanity. And I think it's one of the most fundamentally needed companies in the world today. And it's trading on par with evaluation that we haven't seen but a handful of times over the last 30 years. The dot com crash, the financial crisis, the 2022 tax reset, Powell pivot in 2018. So you can buy Microsoft cheaper than you'll probably see in a generation.
- [16:51]
A
And just I have to ask this, does Apple rank at all in your opinion?
- [16:56]
B
Oh, yes. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not, not poohing Apple at all. As a matter of fact, I think Apple is one of the greatest single winners out there. One of the things that I've learned about Apple over the years, and I've been following this company for a very, very, very long time, I figured out early on that it was a platform. Not a phone, not a computer maker, whatever. You've got company with 2.5 billion installed devices out there, every single one of those devices is potentially a cash platform, a data platform, a medical platform, an exchange platform, an ability to do research and ability to talk. You know, they're not behind an AI. They're not behind in anything else. The company is most dangerous when it's quietest and everybody has written it off because they redefine the customer experience. And I think Apple's getting ready to release something very significant at its developer conference this year because I get that same sort of quiet sensation that I got just prior to the October.
- [17:55]
A
You got a little belly, do you?
- [17:57]
B
What's that?
- [17:57]
A
You got that tingling in your little belly? So now you've said Chevron, Microsoft, Apple. Let's talk about defense for a second here. If you were going to give people a defense stock that you would feel comfortable in buying right now, because if you look at what's happened to many of them over the past week, they actually took a serious hit. Didn't you find it was funny that when we were bombing, we were doing all this stuff and those stocks were going down and down and down. So if you were going to give them a defense stock, which one would it be?
- [18:33]
B
Well, my favorite, bar none, is going to be Lockheed Martin because of the way the company operates. Again, if you look at the annual report they make exactly the kind of technology that we need to defend this country to prosecute the war, whether we like it or not is moot. Again, you know, I'm not a fan of this. I don't like what's going on. I would have handled this potentially very differently. But that's not my call. What is my call is to figure out how we get through this. And Lockheed Martin makes many of the defense systems that are integral to how this is going to get done and what's going to be needed to keep our country safe for a long time.
- [19:08]
A
So here we are at a time of a whole lot of turbulence, of nobody really knowing. Is it going to get worse? Is it going to end in a week or two? Is it going to go on for a year or two? We have all these people out there and let's just say Somebody is in their 70s, because a lot of my peeps are in their 70s. They are women. What would you tell them? How would you say, kind of say this is how you should be invested. Assuming they don't have any credit card debt, they have everything else in order in terms of their portfolio, how would you be investing them?
- [19:49]
B
So I would say, number one, good on you because you've gotten all the bases covered. But number two, the thing to think about is that you may live. Odds are, as we improve science and medicine, you may live a lot longer than you think you will. Which means you just need to stay in the game longer than you think you will. Will the old fashioned rules about, you know, invest X percent because you're this many years old, don't work anymore and the world is accelerating. So number one, I think you need to stay in the game a little bit longer. Number two, I would take a very hard look at what allows you to sleep at night. You know, are you over your skis, meaning taking on too much risk? Are you uncomfortable for any reason? There's usually a very simple explanation for that. Maybe you're investing in stocks you don't understand. But my advice would be take a good hard look at your portfolio. Take a good look at the dividend producers, take a good look at the stuff that's stable no matter what happens in the Middle East.
- [20:40]
A
And here's what I would want all of you to know from my perspective, which is the markets don't take as long to recover today as they did five or 10 years ago. So what really aggravates me so much, I can't even stand it. I think I talked about it on last Sunday's podcast about regrets is when people get out of stocks as they get older and into bonds to keep them safer. Are you kidding me? That is not what you want to be doing anymore. And I even said to, you know, in my books that I've written over the past God knows how many years where you would take your age, subtract it from 100, and that's how much you should be in stocks that, that doesn't hold anymore, everybody. So you really have to, in the same way you've been able to excel because of AI, because of the computer, because of all the new technology out there, you have to understand that things don't work the way they used to. Would you agree with that, Keith?
- [21:47]
B
Oh, 100%. Because, you know, not only are the things not working the way they used to, but they're extremely accelerating now. The Beauty in that is. At first it seems scary. Instinctively that seems scary, but really it's opening an entirely new door of opportunity. And the bond markets in particular are a great example. Because what people don't realize is the very bonds that Wall street is telling you are safe. In fact, the bond market is more volatile, more collateralized and more debt ridden than the stock market. So my preference would be, and my advice to you would be look for those great CEOs. Look, look for those people who are executing, because those people forget the government, forget the Fed, forget the banks, any of that nonsense. The CEOs are tasked with finding their way through this anyway. So if you can identify great people just like you talk about all the time. So the first people, then money, then things, in that order, you can find that in the annual report, you can find that in the news.
- [22:44]
A
You and that damn annual report of yours. Exactly what I think about that. Obviously we hear these jobless reports all the time. They affect the market, then they reevaluate them. However, AI is in my opinion and you know, is having an effect on jobs, certain jobs and things that are going to happen in the future. One thing that I want us to address, and it comes a little bit off topic of the stock market, are parents writing in to say, I don't know where to get the money to send my kid to a $65,000 a year school. Susie, what do you think about it now? I've told everybody my opinion about what I think about colleges today. Not necessarily years ago, but today, especially if you have to go into debt to send your kid to college, what would you tell them? Keith?
- [23:40]
B
Oh my goodness. You know, my advice has changed considerably over the years as well. You know, I grew up thinking, oh, I got to go to college, this is what's expected of me, blah, blah, blah. If I had a do over right now, today, the first thing I would do is encourage my children, my unborn grandchildren, learn a trade, learn which end of a hammer works, figure out how electricity functions because that's the stuff that is really worth bank. And you can go to the job market all day long and look for computer skills and AI and this, all of which is replaceable and or fungible. But what you can't do is replace the electrician who knows how to put the wires together, the person who knows how to build the house, the person who can move the oil rig around. Those are, you know, the truckers. Everybody thinks those jobs are going to go away, but they're not. In fact, they're going to become more integral and more valuable. So no, I would have a hard time arguing for a $65,000 a year school, but instead prefer to see my kids, grandkids, other kids I see out there, go learn a trade, go into doing a job that is worth something because that's how you're going to get ahead.
- [24:45]
A
Yeah. So I think all of you out there are starting to understand if you already don't, the times are a change in everybody. The government can't save you. They can't even save themselves, as you've heard me say. Right? You can take action today to protect your tomorrows. And it is not just about what stocks you should buy. It's really, where do you buy those stocks? Do you buy them in a Roth retirement account? You better be. Do you have a will and a trust and all of those things in order? Are you going to be mortgage free by the time you retire? If you're going to keep your home, all of those things make the total picture of are you going to be enjoying your retirement years? Because I can tell you right now, you can do everything great with the stock market, but if you don't have everything in place, all of a sudden you go into a nursing home, something happens, there goes all your money because you're going to have to sell in order to keep yourself. Do you understand what I'm saying to all of you? So the two of us together bring a perspective of your total financial well being. Which is why really, Keith, I love having you on. Because I want them to hear it from you as well as from me. Anything else you want to say before we end?
- [26:09]
B
No, just that you're very kind and thank you to everybody who's spending a moment. Because change is always an opportunity. It's scary, but when you really look at history, change produces innovation. Innovation produces profits. Profits and all of that are this big, comprehensive, dynamic, exciting picture that, believe it or not, improves our lives over time.
- [26:30]
A
All right, so until next week, there's really only one thing that we want you to remember when it comes to your money, and it is this. People first, then money, then things. Now you stay safe. Bye bye everybody.
- [26:45]
B
We are strong, we are wise. We will not apologize. We are here. We will thrive Together we will rise. We're the everything it takes. We are, we are strong, we are wise Together we will rise.
- [27:11]
A
Hi everybody. Suzy O. Here. And I have to tell all of you there is one benefit that I know all of you need and your corporations need to offer. And it comes from a company that I help co found over 5 years ago by the name of Secure Save. So whether you're an employee or an employer, I want you to go to securesave.com Suzie S U Z E and take a look at what I have for you there. I promise you you're going to like
- [27:50]
B
it all right now Neither Suze Orman Media nor Suze Orman is acting as a Certified Financial Planner Advisor, a Certified Financial Analyst, an economist, CP accountant or lawyer. Neither Suze Orman Media nor Suze Orman make any recommendations as to any specific securities or investments. All content contained in this podcast is for informational and general purposes only and does not constitute financial accounting or legal advice. You should consult your own tax, legal and financial advisors regarding your particular situation. Neither Suze Orman Media nor Suze Orman accepts any responsibility for any losses which may arise from accessing or or reliance on information in this podcast and to the fullest extent permitted by law, we exclude all liability for loss damages, direct or indirect, arising from the use of this information. The must have documents discussed in this podcast are legal documents created by a lawyer and distributed by Hay House. Thanks for listening.