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- [00:00]
A
What's up, y'?
- [00:01]
B
All?
- [00:01]
A
Welcome to another episode of Sweat Equity. Today's episode, we have a fan favorite, Tatum in the house.
- [00:07]
B
It is so great to be back here and to yap about brand for an hour more.
- [00:12]
A
We'll see more.
- [00:13]
B
Yeah.
- [00:14]
A
Today we're going to be talking about brand predictions to build a cult following in 2026. I think this is something that you and I have both just talked about more and more as we are actually building a brand. Maybe that's news that I'm hitting prematurely. Yeah, potentially.
- [00:28]
B
But fast content. Follow us to build a founder le brand.
- [00:33]
A
This is something that we talk about a lot more because I think there's like, this, you know, we saw it in 2025 where somebody will have, like, the three to five brands that they religiously wear, consume whatever it is that are like, hey, these are. These are my guys. Right. Like, these are the brands. I'm attached to these individuals and I'm attached to these. These products, these. These characters, essentially. And then for you to kind of like, get attached to another brand, it takes a lot.
- [01:00]
B
It does. I've been talking about that within the world of fitness and wellness, specifically because all of a sudden we're seeing all of these fitness and wellness brands go broad in their offerings, and so they're trying to connect the dots and like, hey, you've got a full wellness stack and routine. It's so much easier if you just hang with us and we'll take care of everything from gym membership to supplement, like, lifetime, you know what I mean? To know, where do you go cowork and cover. And I think we're seeing that in other brands, too. It's more difficult to crack in, but then if you crack into that consumer, you got them.
- [01:34]
A
And I think that requires an insane amount of touch points.
- [01:36]
B
Yep.
- [01:38]
A
You know, there's a lot of my predictions are based on increasing the amount of touch points and, like, sad to say it, like, or, you know, you have to spend more money to be able to do so.
- [01:48]
B
So, like, bear increase content and an increased, like, production level. Like, it's got to be good and strategic. And so, you know, hate to break it to you, 2026 is getting harder and more difficult, but that can also be your competitive advantage.
- [02:04]
A
Yeah. I was gonna say, like, I think the things that we are gonna talk about today are very early. Right. And usually when you're early, you actually don't need to do things at such a. A high production level. Right. Like, if, you know, if we talk about building out or Sorry, let's rewind. When you were doing inter, like street style based interview stuff, you could literally just like walk on the street, do it casually and it would perform well. But now, now you have to have like a show. I don't know if you've ever seen, like, I think it's called Street Hearts. Have you ever seen that?
- [02:32]
B
I've seen the one where it's some. Oh, it's the. Are you okay? Like, let's determine if you're okay. It's like a little show where they interview somebody on the street.
- [02:41]
A
Check out Street Hearts. So Street Hearts, they literally set up a table in the street and do like a dating show on the streets.
- [02:47]
B
Stop it.
- [02:48]
A
And they like match make like two individuals. That is an actual production. Even Subway Takes actually has. You watch Subway Takes.
- [02:55]
B
Oh yeah, Subway Takes.
- [02:56]
A
Subway Takes is great. They actually have like a. They have a gaffer, they have a grip, they have like a. I think one or two camera people. So it's like they're. It's an actual production. It's not just like an iPhone and a mic anymore.
- [03:08]
B
Right.
- [03:08]
A
So it's. Yeah, it's getting, it's getting more advanced, but at the same time. Yeah, like when you think about how you could have won a year and a half ago, two years ago, like if you're early enough, you don't have to do it extremely well to win.
- [03:18]
B
And then you can build the following and then you have the budget. Like Subway Takes, they didn't start with the full production set, but they were able to hire that on as they.
- [03:26]
A
Started to agree more. Okay, so let's jump into these. The first one that I want to talk about is this idea of having separate accounts. Right. And I think this is going to be crucial for 2026 for many reasons. One, algorithms are getting very, very good at targeting individuals based on what they, what they want from a content perspective, where they're located. If it's.
- [03:50]
B
Wait, I have a great example of this that I got on my TikTok feed last night. So it's after the Spotify wrapped. Spotify wrapped hit you with some like weird little new things. One of them was like. I forget what it was called. It was like, what is your club status? And so it would give people this little badge and it's like, you are the rave, whatever, whatever, based on your music genre. And so there's about seven of them, I think. And everyone has a different one. So. So if you're familiar with the TikTok trend where everyone's like if you're seeing this video, you're in group seven and everyone in the comments are like group seven. People are this, they're this, they're this. And everyone's aggregated based on these personality traits because the algorithm is so targeted. And I saw the same thing for that. Hey, if you're seeing this video, this is your Spotify personality.
- [04:34]
A
Yeah.
- [04:34]
B
And you are also in group seven and it's just, it shows how targeted the algorithm is because they showed me, I got the video that was. Oh, that was my Spotify wrapped like little icon and symbol and that shows how hyper targeted you can be with personality alone.
- [04:51]
A
I'll let you know for sure. I think there's a few ways that you can do this. So one of the ones that we're working with the brands on right now is creating accounts for separate shows. So Built. Have you seen Built?
- [05:04]
B
Yeah.
- [05:04]
A
Okay, so Built is like a technology or software where you get points for paying rent. And so they launched a separate account called Roomies.
- [05:12]
B
Yes.
- [05:12]
A
Right. And the third, the through line is really the idea of just having roommates in New York, whatever. And like this through line around rent. Right. They have a separate account for that and so therefore it's their top of funnel engine for built. But at the same time if you only want to consume that sitcom, you follow Roomies and that's all you're going to get from it. Right. It's so much about like expectations setting of I follow this account because I'm only getting from this account. Whereas if you have a main account and that main account has like six content pillars and like run rotating between like 10, 12, 15 different formats.
- [05:42]
B
You've got different launches for different products for different demographics.
- [05:46]
A
Yeah, it's so different. Like the consumption experience as a, as an individual is, is so yeah, it's very, very different. And so I think there's, there's going to be a huge opportunity in 2026 for you to have separate accounts for separate shows. I think the NBA's or the NBA is doing this with. Have you seen the account? MBA Research and development.
- [06:05]
B
I'm obsessed with that. Is it affiliated with the NBA?
- [06:07]
A
The NBA launched.
- [06:08]
B
Oh, I didn't know that. I thought it was the NBA launched it. This group of people is so cool. Yeah, no, I'm obsessed with that.
- [06:13]
A
One of the people from cut 30 is actually one of the people that helped launch it.
- [06:16]
B
Nice.
- [06:17]
A
Yeah, which is pretty cool. But I think that's going to be a huge opportunity. And so the way that you have to kind of Think about those shows and we could get tactical on a different episode. But like either based on different customers, based on different values, based on different kind of like content pillars or content buckets. Like that's how you're gonna have to think about developing these shows. Separate shows. Again, I think from a top of funnel perspective, which not enough brands create top of funnel content. Yeah, from a top of funnel perspective, biggest opportunity you could do. Because those accounts are the fastest growing accounts. They really are. You know, like when, when you have a dedicated account to like one specific thing and everybody follows it for that thing. Biggest, biggest library.
- [06:56]
B
Because I don't always follow brands that I maybe am a huge fan of because why I buy from them. Unless there's a super specific reason that where they. Yeah, they're producing like a specific show or I'm in love with this element.
- [07:10]
A
I don't follow Bill, but I feel I follow roomies.
- [07:12]
B
Exactly.
- [07:13]
A
And get in like, guess what? Like I have a house. I bought my house. I'm not paying rent, but I send it to friends who I know rent. You know, I'm saying like, so when you think about it, like I am getting in front of other people. The other one I think is having accounts for different kinds of customers. Like if you have a brand that has a endurance line and then a bodybuilding line and XYZ thing, you have to create content for each individual. Like, I don't want to follow X brand, I'm in it for endurance. But then it's all bodybuilding content.
- [07:41]
B
Exactly. And that's kind of that concept that I think you and I both talked about, where it's called niche at scale. It's like a strategy to build where you infiltrate a hyper niche market. You can speak directly to them so they feel super heard. But if you're able to, you do that for all of the different markets, you know, CrossFit. I mean, you see that with Nike, there's, you know, Nike running, you know, and you see all the different. But I think that's kind of the legacy way to do it. Do you want me to dive into brand personality?
- [08:11]
A
Not yet. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. I think on the Nike side, or you could even look at like Bandit or like Leon's bagels, et cetera. You gotta create accounts for different locations. So again, location based algorithms are amazing. Yeah, I don't. I mean, you saw how much stuff I sent you post New York was just because my feed and algorithm was nothing but New York because We were in New York. Yeah, right. And like we were posting stuff in New York and all of a sudden my feed was. That's all it was. And so the, the algorithms are extremely, extremely good. So what you do have to do is like you have to create a location based account tailored to the customer base in that city. So I think about it like this, where two parts. If you want to make that location a hotbed, like having that separate account kind of make can create that feeling. And so I look at Bandit, Bandit just launched a location in Chicago that needs to have its own account now. Like Brooklyn needs to be its own.
- [09:06]
B
And they, even if you looked at their in store launch, they had images of like the original, like Home Alone, like stills with logo on it, which is very, like they're very good at coming into a space and saying we are here for Chicago. Yeah. But that needs to translate into a digital experience.
- [09:22]
A
Agreed.
- [09:23]
B
Social.
- [09:23]
A
Agreed. Big time. So I think creating a separate account locations is huge. Then I think you also create one for campaigns. So separate campaigns I think could be really interesting. So imagine like a, it's like a big campaign for, for a brand. Right. Create a private account for that, for that campaign, obviously publish it on the main, on the main feed to get people over there, but then use all the features, stories, close friends, broadcast channels, FE in feed, like collabs, et cetera for all exclusive content on that campaign. Like imagine if on would have launched something for Zendaya that was just a completely separate account for all of her pillars.
- [10:00]
B
Be such a better way to leverage Zendaya.
- [10:04]
A
Yeah, 100%. So I think that would be super, super unique. And then the last one I think is having it for separate characters of the brand.
- [10:11]
B
Yeah. Okay. And this is where I'll jump in because on kind of the brand strategy side, what I typically take people through is, hey, when you're developing your brand personality, like you need to lean into dichotomous personality traits because we as humans carry conflicting personality traits. And so when brands do the same thing, they're infinitely more salient. And we want to, we're like, oh this, this is interesting. It creates some edge and some texture. And so I think what you're seeing, a lot of brands now, like all of these startups have excellent art direction, beautiful, like you know, products and campaigns that they release, but everything kind of falls flat. And if you look at those brands and you're like, why is that not succeeding? Because it looks like they're doing everything correctly. It's because they're Lacking some tension and edge. And so I always give the example, I still don't know if that they have a great brand strategy, but Equinox is really good at leaning into tension. They have this like sensual, luxurious, like kind of target demo. And they'll lean into the senses while also, hey, we are disciplined and precise. Like you can't join on New Year's Day. Like we're going to lean into some of that like lawful evil every New.
- [11:24]
A
Year's Day infuriate hundreds of thousands.
- [11:27]
B
And they're unapologetic about it. And they're also. And because there's a certain target demo that's like, hell yeah, that's me. And so what I think would be especially interesting in creating these burner accounts is if you create burner accounts centered around specific personality traits of your brand. Almost like a Jekyll and Hyde have an alter ego for your brand. So we see this. I think I mentioned to you there's a creatine beverage like functional beverage brand called Consume, spelled with a K. And they have Consume, like the main account. And then they also have creatine drink.
- [12:00]
A
Are you sure it's that Consume.
- [12:02]
B
Consume. It might be Consume.
- [12:03]
A
That makes. Just makes way more sense the way I like consume. But like I think it is just Consume. It's definitely Consume.
- [12:13]
B
The way the majority of my Google searches are how to pronounce. So I don't get roasted on social.
- [12:19]
A
Media like how to pronounce Jacquemousse when I like make a video or something like that. But consume is great and I hope you get flamed. Yes, I hope you get flamed.
- [12:28]
B
I deserve it. I deserve it.
- [12:30]
A
Because that one should have been like a, like a Come on, Taylor. But you did text me that you're illiterate.
- [12:36]
B
I did, I did.
- [12:37]
A
So if we pop that up, maybe that saves you.
- [12:41]
B
But the creatine drink brands like you see, a lot of people do this with burner accounts where they'll throw up like, oh, this is the alter ego. This is like this brand After Dark. It's like comedic.
- [12:52]
A
Yeah.
- [12:53]
B
Which I think is a little tired. Like it's been done. But if you do that with, you know, like you said with campaigns, but with, hey, this is the side of the brand that is the more evil. We don't care about you, you know, kind of side like hyper performance driven, you know, no pain, no G. And then there's the other side that's like all fun, you know, unserious, hyper playful. Like think about that for like a performance Brand that would be. People would resonate with that because I know I carry both of those personality traits inside me. Like I am hyper driven and also I around, like around and find out. So if you have those like all of a sudden you've got all these different characters and content that you can just lean hard into.
- [13:32]
A
Can you imagine if like Nike After Dark had like a host? It'd be fantastic, you know what I'm saying?
- [13:36]
B
Yeah.
- [13:36]
A
Like there was a one person that was kind of like the face of that brand and whatever. Like I think that would be killer.
- [13:42]
B
That's also where you were talking to me about, well, talk about hiring creators on. So I've been asked, you know, for like, hey, will you create content for our brands? Like other creators have been asked, like, hey, will you come onto our main channel and create a bunch of content underneath our brand? I think the new way to do it is having a separate account that they just front run. Hey, like what if you had like an educational account where you hire a creator who's fantastic at that and just let them cook?
- [14:09]
A
Yeah, I think that's one a huge opportunity I think like to stick on the separate characters for different accounts real quick. Like when we shot Tier Maverick, I told you about that, like we introduced a character, right? This guy, Robbie Ballinger, he's run across America. Like he's literally a crazy individual in like the best way, you know what I mean? Like has done some psycho things that you look at and you're like, damn, like you outran a Tesla. You. You literally ran a across America. All these crazy things, right? So he introduced them as this like mad scientist who was out in a lab like by himself. And like we built a story around. He was dropped off here and he had like one mission. It was like to complete create this like super shoe, right? And so like everything was written from his pov, the emails, sms, the captions, everything was his pov. It was so good that I think we should have created a separate, like we should introduce him as a character for nearly any product launch. And like he should now have his own account that's like Robbie's. And we can have education, we can have product testing, we could have field testing, we could have product development like the mad scientist.
- [15:12]
B
It allows you to be a little more unhinged and kind of break the brand and lean into different aspects of the personality, like the brand personality that you can't do on mace and you can, you can create some heat that way you can go a little more buzzwordy. And lean into books.
- [15:27]
A
Yeah, couldn't agree more. Do you want to hit the next one?
- [15:30]
B
Yeah. So my next. This is a like messaging kind of trend that I'm seeing and essentially I'm titling it Stop Being Mid. And this I saw there's a brand strategist, Joe Burns, and so he published a carousel on LinkedIn that is literally titled Stop Being mid. And he basically talks about all of these brands that are like, these mid tier brands are going to suffer in 2026 because they're, they're too expensive to be cheap, but they're too boring to be premium. And so brands at the edges are going to win, but brands in the middle are going to suffer. And I've seen this in the health space with like consumers are now cost conscious. So all of a sudden it's not enough to just say, hey, we have like a cold plunge in a sauna, join our like high priced club. Because Planet Fitness are rolling out all of the same amenities and you can, you know, head over there. And so this is where like I think we saw, you know, brands in 2020 all felt like they had to say something, but they said something and it didn't have any legs. There's no roots to it. And so we all, you know, the comment, like silence brand. Like we're like, we don't want to hear anything from you, just be a brand. But now this is, this year is kind of the rise of like the I take a stand for something and I'm not mid with any of my messaging or creative. It is unapologetically taking a stance. And then this morning actually Red Antler published like a 2026 brand report where they, they said, you know, now it's all about having a crystal clear point of view and standing behind it shamelessly. And if you're wanting to stay neutral and in the middle and beige with your branding, like you're going to kind of be ignored and get lost in the mix. I do have one example that Red Antler included in their study and there's this ramen brand.
- [17:23]
A
Which one?
- [17:24]
B
It's called. See, I'm going to mispronounce this again. It's called Bulk Doc. It's based in like B, U, L, K, D, A, K. It's based in South Korea. I think it's a South Korean brand. But it got temporarily banned in Denmark in 2024 for being too spicy.
- [17:41]
A
Interesting.
- [17:42]
B
Which of course for any brand this is a challenge. But also the big gift that you could receive. They leaned into it hard and now the ban is lifted, but they're still marketing off the back of, like, we are too spicy. We got banned on shelves. And that's the kind of thing that you need to. Instead of being like, oh, no, like, we've created a product, like, stand behind something unapologetically and start making some noise.
- [18:05]
A
I couldn't agree more. I think that's why.
- [18:09]
Or actually, if you watch any of BPN's, like, videos with Nick Bear, he always says, like, we're going to be unapologetically ourselves. And I think that's why so many people stand behind the idea of going more, because it's what they've stood for forever, and they don't break that.
- [18:22]
B
Yep.
- [18:22]
A
Right. Like, even during hustle culture or hustle porn or whatever, people want to call it, like, they still said that. And I think it's like that. That idea of, hey, this is who we are, what we stand for, and we're always going to stand for that. Like, even if society wants us to not stand for it, when we're still, like, we are holding, we're going to hold that message regardless of. Of the environment, regardless of culture, regardless of society. That's who we are. And I think that's.
- [18:47]
B
People appreciate that in the age of, like, quote, blanding, but, like, blanding in messaging. I think the important thing, I mean, with. Go on. More specifically, it's rooted in so much story that there's nuance to it. It's not purely hustle culture. Like, it's a very human thing. So I. I will give the giant asterisks that if you just want to be divisive and come out with a controversial slogan, like, we're also tired of that. With creators online, people are going to clock it if it's not a real thing that you actually stand behind. Sorry, is it too bright in here for you?
- [19:19]
A
Dude, it is. I'm, like, so used to. People think it's. I tell you, I got roasted in the. Not roasted, but somebody was like, you're not Hollywood. I'm like, it's the lights. They.
- [19:29]
B
My eyes are sensitive. Okay.
- [19:30]
A
They are. Like, it kills me.
- [19:33]
B
Sunglasses inside.
- [19:34]
A
I really think it's because I've been using sunglasses so often now that, like, I.
- [19:38]
B
Your eyes are used to it. Your eyes are hot and soft.
- [19:41]
A
They have. They have.
- [19:43]
B
Don't let them fool you guys. It's all to be cool. He's just trying to be cool.
- [19:47]
A
You know, we're on the next trend.
- [19:50]
B
Yeah. This is you.
- [19:52]
A
So one of the next trends. Kind of predictions I see is, you know, creators are becoming the PR machines for brands. Right. We know that. But the DMs are also getting very saturated with the fact or from brands like, hitting you up, like, hey, we're doing this run. Can you cover it? Here's a brief. Like, we'll give you early access. And I don't think that's cool when 20 people are hitting you up and they're just asking you for free distribution because they're telling you like, hey, like, I have this story that's not even that cool, but please tell my story.
- [20:19]
B
For me because my audience doesn't listen to me, is what the brands are saying. Yeah.
- [20:22]
A
And so. Well, like, there has to be then a way to combat that where, you know, like, what can we do with the creators, what can we do with the influencers to make it more interesting for them so that they're a part of it. And so the thing that I think is going to be very interesting next year is actually having, like the three leaders, you know, kind of in a niche or in a category, flying them in to an actual campaign, flying them into the race, flying them into the situation and. Or whatever the thing is, and having them be there, be a part of it, I think is huge. So we have a campaign that we're going to be producing next month. We're going to fly. I think you're one of them. I mean, I actually know you were one of them. They were going to fly two other people to come be here to be here with us during the shoot to see how it's getting shot, to, like, experience it, hang with the crit, the athletes, like, the whole thing, so that they're like, you know, they fully understand the campaign. And we're not just saying, like, here's a brief, like, give us your POV on this, how it was shot, your story.
- [21:22]
B
Exactly.
- [21:22]
A
Like, they give you a ton of content.
- [21:24]
B
They have some ownership, like they're bought in and then they have their own story because, yeah, it lean into their actual zone of genius and let's let them cook.
- [21:32]
A
Essentially, if I just give you a brief, it's like it's gonna be to. To go back to stop being mid.
- [21:38]
B
Yep.
- [21:40]
A
That's a given. Someone just a brief. And then like kind of putting them within this box is making sure that they're going to be mid.
- [21:47]
B
Yep.
- [21:48]
A
If I bring you here and I say do your thing, like, it'd be awesome if you covered it, whatever, and you do your thing on this and like, you come up with different formats. You try it. I think that's like, that is how you're going to do peak amazing content.
- [21:59]
B
This is essentially as a brand, act as like a creative and give somebody an actual brief. And there is a. There's mouthwash studios. They do a bunch of campaigns for, like, Nike. And so they tapped, you know, they tapped me and said, here's a brief. We want you to talk about this specific thing in your zone. We've, you know, as studios, they don't typically partner with creatives. Their. Their work is incredible. Like, I feel like they're leading the industry with a lot of the stuff that they're producing. But they said, hey, like, here's some different ideas and concepts that we had. Take one of these and run. Or if you have your own, like, pitch it. What do you think? And I feel like that yielded a much better result. Instead of them saying, you know, trying to, like, micromanage the creator.
- [22:47]
A
Did you make something big thing.
- [22:48]
B
I did end up making something for him.
- [22:51]
A
What was it?
- [22:52]
B
It was.
- [22:53]
A
How recent.
- [22:53]
B
The creative studio behind Nike After Dark. That was a couple. It was several months ago when I did it, and it did. It did. Okay. I think if we ran it again and maybe took a more like. Again. Don't be mid. Like, take a stance.
- [23:07]
A
Yeah.
- [23:08]
B
Because it's also difficult when you hire a creator. Sometimes the things that work can be a little controversial. And you want to make sure, like, we don't want any negative heat coming back on. On our brand. And that's something that you got to just figure out, like, what is the negative heat or the heat that we can withstand that's good for us. Like, pick a side you don't want to be for everyone.
- [23:28]
A
I completely agree. Okay. Hit me with one of yours.
- [23:32]
B
Okay, so this one. This one is. There's Red Antler. Kind of put this in their. In their trend report.
- [23:41]
A
Getting an unbelievable shout out on that.
- [23:43]
B
They really are. But I had written down, like, we're either leaning into anti AI design or like, excellent AI design, and there's no in between. Like, gone are the days of you using Mid Journey to put out, like, a mid graphic and people being like, yeah, that's okay.
- [23:59]
A
Pun intended there.
- [24:01]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:02]
A
I mean, that's kind of.
- [24:03]
B
We're using mid way too much in this podcast.
- [24:06]
A
We were like, Mid Journey to put out a mid graphic to put out a mid graph. Brands can't be mid because brands can't be title.
- [24:12]
B
That's the title of this episode.
- [24:13]
A
I actually think that title could Go crazy. Like, brand predictions to not be mid. Like, something along those lines, I'd have to twist it.
- [24:21]
B
That is kind of the theme of this episode is how not to be mid.
- [24:24]
A
We can a b test it.
- [24:25]
B
Okay. Okay. So. But there was an episode. There's this show or, like, a podcast called the Cutting Room Floor that talks about fashion. I feel like fashion is where we're seeing this the most dramatically. There's. There's all of these AI fashion campaigns that look really good. And essentially on the Cutting Room Floor, they say we hate that we don't love AI doing this because we want to give jobs to real people. However, look at the Vogue cover with Timothee Chalamet, like, and that was an AI and that sucked. So where's kind of the balance? There is a somebody called Sophia Hospice. Her Instagram is Studio Sophia Hospice, and she's doing, like, spec campaigns for Nike, arc', Teryx, ysl, Prada, like, all with her trained AI model. And the work looks really good. Now, I will say I still have not figured out where myself as a creator stands with AI. I tend to be pretty anti AI, but what I think we see where AI goes wrong is when brands look at AI to be like, well, now we're not going to hire a designer. We. This is easy mode. We just hand this to this AI model and we can create whatever we want. But what we're. You're seeing these studios, like Sophia do is she has, like, a strategy and a creative vision, an art direction.
- [25:48]
A
Yeah.
- [25:48]
B
So she does all of the work. And instead of using models and photographers, which, again, I think that is the way. Um, but it's. Hey, we're now using this other tool. It's just a tool in your toolbox instead of being the entire, like, agent to do this work for you. But on the flip, we're also seeing, like, anti AI design, where designers are creating these little symbols to go on the side of package designs. To be like, this was not made with AI Aerie of American Eagle's arri, which is carrying the brand American Eagle currently.
- [26:22]
A
How about Sydney Sweeney was.
- [26:24]
Holding the brand alive.
- [26:28]
B
Arie, is it like, single hip? Yeah. Stand for something good.
- [26:31]
A
Jeans.
- [26:33]
B
But Ari posted this, like, no. AI in campaigns promise that put up numbers for the brand. And this is essentially, if you remember the, like, ARRI real campaign where it's like, we're using real models, no photoshopping. This was about a decade ago that, like, really succeeded and kind of put the brand on the map, more or less. Now this is the new Aerie Real campaign is no AI. And so I think again, this is taking a stance like either go full no AI, we're ultra human, or just be unapologetic about it. Like these, I think Oren posted in Hyper, his newsletter. He essentially said, yeah, the people in the comments saying, complaining about AI, that's low status now. Like brands don't care if you do, but you have to do it well and you have to execute on it.
- [27:20]
A
Well, I've seen there's a. Let me pull his name. I don't want to butcher it. Carson, but I'll call him Carson. He has done a phenomenal job of integrating AI into his work to the point where it just feels like he's replaced having to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on cgi.
- [27:37]
B
Exactly.
- [27:37]
A
And I think that's a great move. Like if I have a great idea that that infuses AI, but it's just like I'm saving again, look back to what you said about it being a tool for him. It's a tool to be able to replace cgi.
- [27:49]
B
Yep.
- [27:50]
A
Because if you have a hundred thousand dollar budget now I could do a hundred thousand dollars worth of like amazing things in production people. Exactly.
- [27:57]
B
Models, like do some cool.
- [27:58]
A
Exactly. And like build a world see and have like my transitions be the AI or this, you know, to literally replace the idea of cgi. That to me I think is I.
- [28:09]
B
Could get behind that because I'm still figuring out my stance in the AI art war. But. But that I think I could get behind.
- [28:17]
A
I will send you his page like you should look at.
- [28:21]
B
And I love it. Again, this is a tool in your toolbox instead of being the entire machine. And like, I don't know, hire one of these people. Hire Carsten, hire Sophia, like hire a strategist who can leverage these tools really well so that you're not putting. So you're not putting out mid content.
- [28:36]
A
And he's a creative director. Like he's worked with, with. He's worked with the Nikes, Kobe's. Like, he's worked with amazing, amazing brands. And I think he's seen it as like, yo, this is a tool for me. Like I could save hundreds of thousands of dollars.
- [28:49]
B
Yep.
- [28:49]
A
Doing some of this stuff. Like there's a, a Mamba shoe that he just did something for where it literally like goes from like the shoe into I think like a dinosaur or something like that. And it literally just replaced cgi. Like I know it's AI because he breaks it down and he shows like how he did it or talks about it, but at no point do I feel any kind of way about it, because I'm like, oh, you're not being lazy.
- [29:09]
B
Yes.
- [29:10]
A
You're seeing this as a tool. And I think that is. And the reality too is I think, like, creators like us or creatives are like the hardest critics. Because we want to be like, no, like, use your brain and, like, sure work. And then consumers are like, oh, that's fake. But it's like, brother, we watch movies. All movies are fake.
- [29:27]
B
We don't care if it's good. It's the general consensus. Like, as long as it's good, we don't care if it's fake.
- [29:32]
A
Exactly. Like, have you ever seen the BTs of Interstellar?
- [29:35]
B
Yeah.
- [29:36]
A
You know, I'm saying, like, that you could just do that now to a degree. Right. With AI that's all cgi, like, they're set building and stuff. Actually, one crazy thing about Interstellar. Have you watched it?
- [29:47]
B
Yes.
- [29:47]
A
Okay. You know when they're driving up to all of the cornfields or through the cornfields? Those are all cornfields that they planted or corn that they planted. Like, that wasn't cgi.
- [29:57]
B
Wow. That is. That is the one not to go. Not to make this entire thing about for AI or against AI, but that's the one thing that I do struggle with. Even when using AI as a tool, sometimes the process of going analog. Like, I saw a video of the, like, illustrators at Disney with a deer, like, sitting in a room for hours with a deer in the center, just studying the deer's movements. And, like, you are just going to get a. Such a different product when you. End result, when you sit with the thing and you translate it through your own brain instead of letting a tool do everything for you. But again, there's advantages to using this.
- [30:36]
A
Why can't you do a mix? You know what I'm saying? Like, why can't I do that and then use the. The model to train me if we need to scale it?
- [30:42]
B
Right.
- [30:42]
A
Or, sorry, train the model to.
- [30:43]
B
Did you CGI for sure?
- [30:45]
A
100.
- [30:46]
B
Yes. So I mean, that. That. That is a good example.
- [30:50]
A
All right, so it's my turn.
- [30:53]
B
It's your turn.
- [30:53]
A
Okay. Okay. Hey. Okay, so the other one that I think is going to be very interesting is going live and actually spending a lot of time going live on Instagram, going live on YouTube, whatever it is. Two good examples for this. And I'm actually going to hit two just because they kind of like feed off of each other. But so this year we really saw Kaisenat and who's the other guy? I show speed. Take off, like take off. Going live and doing some amazing things. Right. Like Kaisernath did like this 30 day thing that he brought on Kevin Hart, like all these celebrities into his thing. Awesome. From a brand perspective and like the niche and categories that we're in. BPN did an amazing job of covering their the Last Man Standing event by going live. Right. Like they had people or it was going live at the beginning of every.
- [31:45]
Yeah. In the end of every lap or loop. And so with that I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of it. With BPN specifically there was at some point I was paying attention to it, you know, like at the beginning and have a few hundred people, then a thousand people. Then by the time the story was amplified and people were sharing what was happening, it was having 30, 40,000 thousand people watching it live.
- [32:06]
B
And it was such a tool. You saw memes come off the back of it like, hey babe, sorry, I can't like I'm watching go on more live. And like you're kind of enabling people to be a part of that conversation and they're creating their own content. BPN didn't tap any of those people to do it and they were just posting for you and that was the like. I think there's been a lot of videos that we've both done about how brands are doing their own events. Like we've done those videos. But the key is to integrate the in person event with some form of like there has to be a live component so the people who aren't there feel like they're there so you get the most leverage.
- [32:42]
A
Couldn't agree more. Like the reason, I don't want to say the reason that Last Man Standing was. Was so successful is because alive. But if we would have only got a recap post or a few recap.
- [32:53]
B
Posts and a documentary at the end.
- [32:54]
A
A documentary at the end. It wouldn't have been what it was. No, we got to see it all unfold live on camera and kind of be like this binoculars from the distance and there's just watching people.
- [33:02]
B
You're in the comments, seeing people say this is crazy. You feel like you're a part of the event even if you're like across the globe.
- [33:09]
A
Yes, 100. And that I think is so insanely powerful because then I saw other brands in similar in this, you know, in the same category, create events and like no one really knew what the hell is going on. And you Would see a few things on story here and there, but there was no story really attached to it because you didn't see it unfold. With live, you get to watch the thing unfold and feel like you're literally there, front row seat. And so I think you could leverage live for a lot of things. You can leverage live for your campaigns and like having like, let's say I took the top customers or the top people that like engage with me or something and there are tools to be able to find these things and I invite them to a private live. Right. And that sounds weird when you say it like that, but like a private life. Right. Or I. They're the only ones that are going to see the live behind the scenes of a campaign.
- [33:52]
B
Yep.
- [33:53]
A
Or product development or an event or like. Right. And all of a sudden you have like all these ors, as in I can have you. I could have all sorts of different people from my accounts, my customer base being able to tap in to like these things that nobody else gets to tap in and get a front row seat of. If I take the, like our. If I took our top, you know, 200 listeners and we did private, like sweat equity episodes for them, there were live sessions. They tell us their brand and like we rip them apart. We do XYZ thing, People would love that. Right. And so I think that is such a powerful thing to then like, if we talk about loyalty and like affinity. Right. You want to have as many touch points as you want, but you want those touch points to be like either very vulnerable or personal. Vulnerable from the brand. As in not like you have to share all your feelings, but you have to let the brand know you as an individual or as a character or as a brand. Right. And then from a personal side, it's like. Or you can let them be there and experience those same things, you know, on their own. That is why I think the last man singing was so, so powerful is because like people were there, people experienced it. People saw those two kids like cross the line every, whatever, every 45 minutes, every hour. And so that made it so powerful. That's why I think like going into my next. Unless you want to jump in there, like, the next trend, I think is you are going to see a lot more brands create long form content. But literally like our docs.
- [35:21]
B
Yes. Let me jump in on the live thing real quick too, because I think just like anything else that we've talked about, as it becomes more saturated, the production quality has to be even higher. And when Jake Hyen And I were at the BPN race. I was saying, now what if they're doing this live and it's great, but what if they had like a broadcasting component and commentators that they had sitting in the rain as it was stormy and commentating on it like an actual sports event and you're engaged with it and they're running the camera like that is the next evolution of that. I would love to see BP do. And they can execute on that. You have characters and personalities and again to your point of like pulling in influencers and creators as their own characters. Like you see that with even, I think the PGA had like a comedian, Hannah Burner, like commentating on it. And it just, it makes it fresh. It brings in different eyes. And I feel like brands can lean into that with whatever creator their target demo really cares about.
- [36:20]
A
The Olympics did it with Kevin Hart and Snoop Dogg. I don't know if you remember that.
- [36:22]
B
Yes, yes.
- [36:23]
A
And it popped off because there was so many like these little viral moments from them going live and them. I mean talk about the most hilarious things.
- [36:32]
I think this feeds back into. You have a live for whatever thing that you're doing and then you have a very, very long documentary or almost movie like piece that you put out on the back end that people are like, I experienced it. Now I want to see like the. All. All the stuff I didn't see. Right. BPN's last man standing probably has a million views if I had a guess, like around there. I actually am very curious how I'm gonna pull it up.
- [36:58]
B
You've seen so many brands this year making documentaries too.
- [37:01]
A
Yes. 722, 000 views. Yeah, you know, posted three months ago. It will cross a million at some point. Like it will 100% cross a million. But in a great example of have the live and then have like the. The masterpiece at the end of it that people like there were. So I was. I could not wait to watch this. And just because of the live.
- [37:24]
B
If they had just dropped this documentary without like having the context of you felt like you were kind of there at the event. Like how many people do you think would watch it? I think it would have fallen a.
- [37:34]
A
Bit more flat 100% now that like as you say it out loud, it's like the live is that context. It gives context at scale for people that are interested in the thing. And I'm not even somebody that like, I've never watched a racing event that's not track.
- [37:48]
B
Yeah.
- [37:48]
A
Like I've. I've only watched track I've never watched a marathon. I've never watched ultra running. Like I've watched like docs on it or you know, some.
- [37:56]
B
You're not tuning into the UTMB and seeing who.
- [37:59]
A
But I tuned into this because there was a level of like FOMO that was created from the live.
- [38:03]
B
Yeah.
- [38:04]
A
And I think that's huge tier actually I think was ahead of the curve on this.
- [38:07]
B
Where I remember this at Wa Palooza with their documentary.
- [38:11]
A
Yeah. Where they did the documentary and like they. They kind of did like a watch party on stage at the end of Water Palooza.
- [38:19]
B
Yes.
- [38:20]
A
The one thing is it could have been timelier. Like it was too late cuz everyone.
- [38:25]
B
Was already leaving and the weather was a little weird too.
- [38:29]
A
I think too late from like it needed to be sooner. It was like six months later or something. Like seven months later. You know what I mean? Whereas this was three months ago. I don't know how long it took to turn this around, but I actually, I am curious. When did you. When did you run?
- [38:45]
B
It was end of April, Early May. Yeah, end of April.
- [38:49]
A
From May 24th and then May 24th. Yeah, it was on the weekend of May 24th. So three months ago was what?
- [38:56]
B
It was like September when they dropped the doc.
- [38:59]
A
September or August.
- [38:59]
B
Yeah.
- [39:01]
A
I feel like they could have even done sooner, which is. I mean. But it's an hour and 30 minutes.
- [39:06]
B
Like it's so that's so much work. Again, like we're giving you guys recommendations that are so much work. But being able to execute at that level, like that is some of what it takes now.
- [39:18]
A
But again, I do think you can. You don't have to. Executing at their level is because BPN has set that level. Go watch BPN's older videos.
- [39:26]
B
Yep.
- [39:27]
A
They're not that good and they still performed. Sam Solick is extremely famous and well known. His content is like very. Just vlog.
- [39:36]
B
That is a very good point.
- [39:37]
A
So like the bar is. Because you're so early. The bar is very low.
- [39:41]
B
Yeah.
- [39:41]
A
But in like five years from now when a lot of brands are creating docs, like it's going to have to be at a very high level.
- [39:47]
B
Yep.
- [39:48]
A
What you got?
- [39:49]
B
Okay, so the next brand trend that I'm seeing, I'm titling anarchy aesthetic. But it's this like you love titling things.
- [39:58]
A
I got. I got to do this more.
- [40:00]
B
I love giving everything a name and it drives people crazy. But I'm obsessed with it because I think it just. It helps contextualize it in your brain. So you start to Understand it. So this is like punk grunge revival and then imperfection as status. So like as we're looking at the, you know, AI, Boom. Yeah, you're starting to see like, I don't know if you've gotten spam emails that intentionally like integrate typos so that you know that they're a human and it's not a chat GPT spam.
- [40:28]
A
So I do this when I send like clients. When we send clients scripts, I'm like, fuck up a little bit.
- [40:34]
B
Yeah.
- [40:34]
A
Because I don't want them thinking we're using AI. And obviously you should be able to tell, but at the same time, like it's so easy to blare the lines now. It is between somebody writing it and AI.
- [40:44]
B
And it's, it's so interesting. So Pinterest predicts will gather a bunch of data and say, hey, this is what everyone is like these searches are increasing. So I mean, I don't think that's the end all, be all of trend prediction by any stretch. But one thing that they've released that's on the rise is grunge revival. You see this in fashion, like indie sleaze is coming back and I think that's just a swing back from like the clean girl esthetic, the preppy esthetic, and just overall conservatism in society. Like this is again like wanting to lean into, like stand for something, do something interesting. And there's this, let's see, what's his name? There's this. Tom Garland is a brand strategist and he wrote a piece for the Sociology of Business that he titled Wellness Anarchy. So he talks about the wellness anarchist and it's this essentially like, hey, we're so tired of this, you know, super hyper optimization lean into like we are the person who will go run the marathon, but we're also drinking a beer, you know, the night before. And so I think this grunge revival aesthetic is on the rise in brand styles, like visual aesthetics. So you're seeing a lot of these like, like the 70s punk movement of these wheat pasted posters and cut together things. And I think a very good example of this is Cadence did a collab race earlier this year with Furies running called Short Fuse. It was this like unsanctioned relay. It was very like 1970s UK punk, like riot kind of vibes. And I think just due to the, the climate of the world and a swing back from the hyper polished AI, we're going to see this like ultra gritty kind of riot aesthetic, anti Establishment. And I would lean into it hard. If it works for your brand personality, like run a campaign and kind of see how it performs because people are itching to stand for like something and go against the grain a little bit.
- [42:50]
A
I'm there with you because I, I do think if you look at again, like we talk about Bandit a lot, but like you look at Bandit, there's a million. Let's say they're the leader in it. There's a million other brands that are doing the same exact esthetic. And we were talking about this with 10,000 where if everybody is doing like the beautiful clean. Yep.
- [43:09]
B
Art directed.
- [43:10]
A
It feels like a video. What about the brand that adds some grit and adds a little bit of gruntiness and adds a little bit of that because, like that's who they are and they don't want to be like super polished. Perfect. It could be in an art gallery. I think that is going to specifically in running first. Like, I think it has to happen and then I think, I think, you know what's funny is that I think fitness as general fitness is going to go to where running is.
- [43:35]
B
Yes.
- [43:36]
A
And then it's going to have a moment of like kind of not vintage, but a little bit more nostalgic layers and then it'll make its way back. But fitness hasn't been there. Like fitness has stayed grungy. It's still like grungier.
- [43:47]
B
Nice school gym and they're ready for the like polish hyper curation. Whereas running has been this way. Yes. And it's gotten oversaturated.
- [43:57]
A
Yes. And I think it now needs to like have like the next brand probably that's going to win is going to be. Yes. Polished and amazing. But it's going to have like these grungy layers to it.
- [44:06]
B
And again, this is going back to what I say about adding in brand tension and texture with like conflicting personality traits. Like, you got to give it a little bit of something. Because if you look at why Bandit stuff sometimes works as opposed to maybe another running brand where the esthetic looks the same but Bandit will lean into these kinds of interesting lines of messaging of like the whole, you know, name behind Bandit is your Bandit Dean a race. And so they kind of lean into some edge with some of their brand messaging. And I think that's why it really works.
- [44:39]
A
I agree.
- [44:40]
B
You've got to have some edge.
- [44:41]
A
Yeah. People want edge.
- [44:43]
B
Yeah.
- [44:43]
A
People want to feel like, feel something.
- [44:46]
B
Yeah.
- [44:47]
A
They want to feel like if you have these kind of values. When I put the clothes on, when I put the shoes on when I drink, the beverage, when I whatever. I'm aligning my values. Like we have shared values. Therefore I am a microphone for those values when I wear or whatever. Consume your products.
- [45:05]
B
Yep.
- [45:05]
A
And I think that is, I mean that's done through your art direction, that's done through your creative direction. That's done through all of the things that the copycats don't understand or recognize. It is not just hey, we're shooting.
- [45:17]
B
In front of them, they're copying the end result. They don't see all of the strategic work that you did at the beginning for brand strategy and messaging to buy your position.
- [45:25]
A
Couldn't agree more. What else do you got? Because I hit two back to backs.
- [45:28]
B
This kind of rolls off of it really well. There's kind of this like brand, call it messaging trend but overall kind of a trend in product of like control through optimization. So the world feels very chaotic and we feel out of control kind of as a society. And when external freedom is limited, identity kind of manifests through these micro rebellions like ritual mastery, like clarity of mind. So it's like think about like what can I control? I can control my own self, my own state of being. And so what's interesting is you see brands like, you know, like Aura and you know, whoop, kind of lean into this a little bit of you know, hey, we reach for ownership of ourselves through self optimization. And so there's this great article written by a brand strategy company I follow called Concept Bureau. But they say like people are willing to pay a premium for anything that promises even the illusion of control in a world of complexity and chaos. Now the asterisks I'll give to this is I think the control of like being so hyper dialed and we have all of our stats on everything. We are so exhausted by that concept Bureau titles, this like reactive control. Like you react to a situation where you feel out of control. Like my sleep schedule is you know, fucked up. And then you know, here's all the data points. So now you got to do something with that data. But generative control is what they kind of titled it. Taking the chaos and building something completely new, like building a new world, like breaking structures entirely. So and this, this kind of leads into that like wellness anarchist kind of conversation. Like how do you, how do you say you have control over yourself in optimization and mastery. But that can look like embracing vice. So an example of this, there's like, I feel like we see like nootropics and brain health is like infinitely on the rise I think brain tech is about to be kind of the next huge like wellness wave. But there's this nootropics like brand thesis that like they, their line of messaging is like owning your mind. And I feel like that is something to lean into in sport, in performance or if you have a brand that's adjacent, leaning into self mastery and ritual and control. I think that's such an interesting thing that we'll start to see a lot more of maybe as like a foundational brand messaging line or just, just a campaign that you run.
- [48:12]
A
As in like the idea of control versus like give me more on position it from like a campaign perspective or from like a brand because they're very.
- [48:25]
Custom, right? Like you have a specific thing that you're dealing with. The thesis, right?
- [48:30]
B
Yes.
- [48:30]
A
Like how would you have a camera company? You know, I'm saying like how would you have like a more so if general brand.
- [48:39]
B
It's kind of this blend of. Instead of reacting to chaotic situations again that reactive control where you're like, all right, here's all of your stats and here's how to dial it in. Say like your control is your control over yourself. Self mastery. And like we want to be present so we, you know, we're so tired of like being constantly taken away and out of like our entire world through our phones is all escapism. That's why I think you're seeing companies like Brick prop up and people like ditch their phones and crave. Like I want an escape from escapism. Like I want to drop into presence and that's a form of control. Like I control myself the here and the now. So as like a camera company, it's like, hey, how do we like capture maybe if it's, you know, geared towards creatives who are using high end equipment. Like you can stay focused on the task at hand because your camera equipment is going to keep up with you. Like you're fully present. Like self mastery ownership, like years and. And so I think we'll see minimalism in branding. Not in you know, like esthetic but in kind of the campaign vibes of just like silence. Yeah, Everything's so chaotic. You deserve a moment of control.
- [49:54]
A
We have a piece of content creative that we're working with a specific brand on. On like it's going to be almost like the YouTube ads that are like, enjoy these 15 seconds of Zen. Right? Yeah, that it's going to be like, enjoy these 60 seconds of. It's not Zen. We're not copying that, but like we're building Something out like that where it's like, it's going to be completely anti d trying to get your attention. It's going to be like, instead of getting your attention, we're just gonna try to let you enjoy being present for 60 seconds or whatever the case.
- [50:22]
B
And that is very much like something that can stop you. And if it. If it comes authentically from a brand principle, it feels like, oh, wow, this is authentic and beautiful. Like, I enjoy this interesting piece of content.
- [50:33]
A
Yes. The last one that I have. And, dude, one thing I actually forgot to mention when we were talking about live was, have you seen how Justin Bieber has been, like, going live for, like, five hours a day or something? Super interesting. I want to cover that more, like, in a different.
- [50:48]
B
There's those. What's the name of those, like, tech bros who are always on Twitter who, like technology, bro. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I feel like that's just a proven example of the live concept. It's like. Yep. It's constant media.
- [51:02]
A
Yeah. Okay, I'll give everyone an easy one that doesn't cost a lot of money.
- [51:07]
B
Yeah. Good.
- [51:09]
A
Brand newsletters. So I think, like, 2023 was, like, peak newsletters because, you know, I use Beehive. They're an amazing platform, but they made it so easy to launch a newsletter, which is what they're trying to do. That, like, all of a sudden I went from having, you know, marketing brew and like, some other smaller newsletters as competition to, like, 20 people all of a sudden.
- [51:27]
B
Yep.
- [51:27]
A
Right. There was newsletters everywhere now. Creators did them, but brands always say, like, sign up for our newsletter, and then all they send you is promotional emails.
- [51:35]
B
Yep.
- [51:36]
A
Right. They don't actually send you actual newsletters. Actual newsletters are the same things that you would see on organic social in an email format. Right. And typically given a lot more context and maybe even some things that you wouldn't share on social, but, like, you want to share on on in email. And so one thing to think about is brand newsletters. There's newsletters that sell for tens of millions of dollars. I was at the Hustle. The Hustle sold for, you know, nearly $20 million, and they had a newsletter with 2 million subscribers on it. Like, it's a very, very powerful medium and very powerful tool. Morning Brew sold for nearly 75 million cash. You know, I'm saying, like, they were a newsletter with, I think, in total, probably like, 5, 10 million subs. Right. And the thing is, people want more and more and more content because there's more and more Content. And because consuming content is so easy and consuming content that you want to consume is ears easier than ever. When we were kids, you're how many years younger than me? A year too, I think just a year.
- [52:39]
B
I'm 96.
- [52:40]
A
Okay, I'm 95. So like, not that when we were kids, consuming something we wanted to consume was hard. You'd go on the TV guide, you would find like, oh, rocket powers on, like, let me put it on. And then it's like, if for I'll. I saw it late on the TV guide, so therefore I'm only getting 10 minutes of it.
- [52:57]
B
Yep.
- [52:57]
A
Right. And like, it was so hard to consume content that you actually enjoyed. Now it's easier. We have YouTube. You subscribe to things, you follow people, you can click a few things. All of a sudden your algorithm's completely different. Like, it is so easy.
- [53:10]
B
And what's interesting is people are going after like long form content. Even like, like that's why substack is popping off like beehive substack. We're willing to even pay and go behind paywalls to pay for. Like, this is written by a human. Long form content, not the AI slop. You know, like the death of social media or whatever that you're just.
- [53:30]
A
Yes. And so with a newsletter, it's like you get this very powerful touch point where you can go deep into context, which social media sometimes does not allow. Because when you have. When your average watch time is 13 seconds, you can't do that. But when you're in email, you're in a different frame of mind. And you and people, if it is good, will consume the whole thing. And so the newsletter is almost like this gateway and like bridge into. Into the brand's world. Right. Like if, if social is. It's almost like if, if in person events is here, social is here. The newsletter lives in the middle is like this great bridge. And so there's two brands that are doing this. Well, I know we've mentioned Bandit a lot. Bandit does and for a reason. They do a lot of good things. Good. You know what I'm saying? Like, they do a lot of things.
- [54:16]
B
Is something that I have put all of my creative friends onto because I'm.
- [54:19]
A
Like, the email is great, interesting and the B mail is amazing.
- [54:22]
B
And they're showing the mood board behind their drops.
- [54:25]
A
Yes. Like the B mail is phenomenal. And then there's another company called Flamingo Estate and they have a newsletter, I think it's called the Estate, where every Friday they send you a newsletter from the garden and it's like updates from what they're doing behind the scenes. Like it's so great. Both like the B mail. Right? They have, I think they have like is it Ardiff? Yeah, Ardiff artists favorite picks as in like you know, certain selections from like winner or whatever. And so like if think about it, if you've built that separate account around a character or even on the main account, like you have a certain individual as a character and then all of a sudden a lot of the deeper layers from that individual live in newsletter as in like her favorite pics.
- [55:04]
B
Because he's not from their signature.
- [55:05]
A
Yeah. Because like she's not going to probably publish that on ig. Like, yeah, Bandit's not going to publish that on IG because it might feel like a like Rolling Stone or Vogue's. You know, my favorite picks. But in my own newsletter where I'm show I showed you my mood board and then here are my favorite picks. That's different.
- [55:22]
B
And again that's the consumer that has three brands they're hyper loyal to and it's giving them like, hey, if you want to dive a layer deeper, you can like we're giving you these like surprise and delight Easter egg moments, you know, hidden throughout the brand, hidden in plain sight in the newsletter that if you want to dive deep with us and become a part of our like cult, you can do that.
- [55:43]
A
Couldn't agree more. I, I, you know, some people get mad when you talk about building a cult following, et cetera because it's buzzwording. Would they get like, they're like, if you actually study cults are not good. I'm like, I get it right. Like 100%. But at the same time, we do not endorse cults. There is a reason that they have that following. They have people that like in there's psychological things you can learn from a cult to be like, how do I get fans and customers to love me? That's not a bad thing. When you introduce a very good brand or very good product to the right person when they need is like it there, there is such a high from that moment.
- [56:19]
B
Yeah.
- [56:19]
A
You know what I'm saying? And I mean I, I think George talked about, George from Represent talked about this recently where somebody found Represent and like at a moment in their time when they were just down bad and I think like their slogan of on a mission and kind of like what the whole brand stood for and was doing changed the kid's life.
- [56:37]
B
Yeah.
- [56:37]
A
You know what I mean? And and that's amazing. And that those same properties, though, would be like, what a call is. Like, that kid basically in some way, like joined a cult of like, we're the I am behind us.
- [56:48]
B
And all of that's very tongue in cheek. It's like movies are titled cult classics because this certain subset of people are obsessed with this movie that may not have done numbers in the box office. And yeah, that's what brands should be striving for. Even there's a sub stack from. His name's Daniel Yaw Miller, but he's like, yeah, I think on Instagram and it's called Sports Verse and it's why Nike quietly launched on Substack. Like, Nike threw up a newsletter. Like, they're doing this.
- [57:14]
A
Really? I did not know.
- [57:15]
B
Yep. This was about five months ago. And like, you should be doing that as a brand. Like, show up where other people are actually consuming a ton of content. Like a substack or like a beehive.
- [57:27]
A
Daniel Yaw Miller, he's great, I think.
- [57:29]
B
Let me find what his Instagram is.
- [57:31]
A
I got him.
- [57:34]
B
Yeah, his Sport Verse. Yeah, he's Y Majesty. No, that's something.
- [57:40]
A
No, that's one of our friends. I have him here. Daniel. Yeah.
- [57:47]
Yeah.
- [57:50]
I'll let you find it.
- [57:56]
B
Oh, you want me to find his Instagram?
- [57:58]
A
Oh, no, no. I thought you were doing something.
- [57:59]
B
No.
- [58:00]
A
Okay. I could keep going.
- [58:03]
Yeah, I. I think the newsletter play is. It's not even newsletter play. I think the. The idea of launching a newsletter as a brand but truly letting it be an actual newsletter, not thinking you always have to sell an email.
- [58:15]
B
Yep.
- [58:17]
A
There's a.
- [58:18]
B
You know, would you do that on a platform like a substack or a Beehive? Like, would you differentiate between your, like, email marketing platform? Like, would you show up on those algorithms or would you launch it from your email?
- [58:34]
Because Bandit, they like publish them as blog posts and then send it out on their mailing list. Whereas Nike was like, there's an algorithm in substack that's working and we're just going to show up here now. I have no idea how successful that newsletter has been.
- [58:47]
A
Yeah, I.
- [58:51]
I would use Beehive, but because Nike is a different. They're so large that they probably. They can break rules.
- [58:59]
B
Yeah, they can.
- [59:00]
A
They can break rules. And they could also have brands like a substack bend rules. What I mean by that is.
- [59:08]
They should own all their customer data. As in, like, hey, this has a million subscribers on it, whatever readers.
- [59:15]
So therefore, like, you should own that data and have it on a place like Beehive where you could own that data. But Nike is so big too. Where Nike could go to substack and have infinite leverage to say, hey, if I'm here and I'm doing this, I'm going to do it on here. But you're going to give me all the data. I won't publicly say it but like I need the data because we're Nike and they're in. Substack's going to bend.
- [59:36]
B
Yeah.
- [59:37]
A
You know what I'm saying. And.
- [59:40]
But there is the algo aspect because I've thought about, you know, I'm on Beehive. Beehive's great. But I've thought about Substack on just from that sense of hey, they're like I'm putting great content out on subsec. I can grow really fast. Yeah. There's this guy Lenny. It's just Lenny's newsletter. He's like covers tech and he's grown dude to like a million person newsletter. Wow. Just off substacks like referral engine.
- [60:09]
B
Yeah. I find a lot of great articles and creators who might have quieter social presences that are killing it on substack.
- [60:18]
A
Would you rather have a newsletter with 150000 subs or would you rather have a social follow with 150,000?
- [60:23]
B
Oh, newsletter hands down.
- [60:25]
A
I disagree.
- [60:26]
B
Really? Really? Why do you disagree?
- [60:29]
A
Because we had like marking Xaman had at one point like 110 and then I cleaned up the list because I was like hey, we're gonna only do brand social. So like I got rid of a bunch of people I like was telling people to answer the subscribe, etc. So we cleaned it up. Me building on. If I just look at my company.
- [60:50]
We went from, you know, we're like from pivoting to what I would say, like successful.
- [60:55]
B
Yeah. Because of I. I think it depends on how you do it. So for. For my career personally, like I think I would be a little more siloed if I existed just on a platform like Substack or with the newsletter. Whereas I'm able. People feel like they get to know me as a person and it's opened a lot of network connections and then I get some business from that on Instagram. So I guess it definitely depends on what you're trying to do. Whereas if I wanted to just. If monetization was the only thing that I wanted, I would. I can sell a newsletter. I can't sell my social media presence without also like giving myself over to like, you know what I mean? Like, I think that's an easier. Here you go.
- [61:37]
A
Kind of. Because you can.
- [61:41]
It's difficult. Like how you monetize on ig. They're like. It's like same, same, but different.
- [61:45]
B
Yeah, that's fair.
- [61:47]
A
Yeah, it's difficult. What. Okay, I'll. I'll reframe the question. You know, we're hopefully launching something. I don't know when. Who knows, 2034.
- [61:56]
B
Yeah. For same year as the Utah Olympics.
- [61:58]
A
And I'm saying like the. The brand. Brand. Product brand.
- [62:02]
Would you rather have 150000 subs or 150000 followers to launch to.
- [62:08]
B
I think followers.
- [62:09]
A
Yeah, that's where I think it's like, you know, it's different.
- [62:15]
B
That's a good question though because I mean that's where you'd want to look behind the curtain and see like what is actually converting and because.
- [62:23]
A
Well, the other thing to think about with a newsletter and this is almost like a meat.
- [62:29]
I'm not attacking newsletters here. What I'm saying with my prediction is you need to have a newsletter if you want to get closer.
- [62:35]
B
Yes. That's not the magic ticket. Instead of also posting on social, because.
- [62:41]
A
If you have 150,000 followers, you can have a video that gets 10 in front of 10 million people.
- [62:46]
B
Yep.
- [62:47]
A
If you have an article that even performs amazingly well, it's probably not getting that reach. Like your chances of getting that reach are significantly higher via a piece of content than an article.
- [63:00]
B
There's also more like creative tools you can lean into on social. Like you can. You can have audio, you can have visuals, you can like pull people into an experience when they're not reading. Which you could argue that you could do the same in a newsletter, but it's different. Like we're coming here to read in a very different capacity. I think you could sell and you.
- [63:19]
A
Could repackage on social media. Right. Like you could take one idea, skin it ten different ways and. Yeah, but it was brand new. See, I'll say not a brand newsletter, but again, it's from the. The. It all depends on how we're positioning the idea and the trend and like the POV of it. And the POV for this is you do this because the consumers that love you want more from you. Newsletters let you do that at a level that is very hard to beat. Again, the B mail, the state. Like those are great, great examples too of also how you can do the thing and do it at a very like High in a high luxury fashion.
- [63:57]
B
Yeah.
- [63:58]
A
You know, where it feels like if you're creating amazing content, your newsletter also needs to be amazing.
- [64:04]
B
Yes. You know, it's another expression of your brand. It should hold the same creative excellence. All of the other facets of your brand.
- [64:13]
A
Yes. What do you have? I think you have one more, right?
- [64:15]
B
I have one more I kind of already touched on. And this is so hyper specific. So the. The one trend that I'm seeing a lot is, like, within tech, like, brand positioning within tech is like, do something with the data. So consumers are exhausted by all the data that they have, but they also crave the hyper personalization of all of that data. So, like, a great example is like, aura. Aura is exploding as a brand. But then you also see, like, a group of people who are like, I feel so overwhelmed by all of this data. I feel so disembodied. I'm ditching the aura ring. I'm listening to my body. But what aura did. They launched this, like, one big thing back in 2025 where they said, hey, like, on opening the app based on all of, like, the user biometrics, like, you get a singular attainable goal. So it's, here's all of your data packaged up with a bow on it. Here's the one thing that you want to do. So it's, you know, we don't want to just hand our consumers or our users data sets anymore. It's like, actually do the work, like, translate it for them, because we're inundated with data. I feel like that's a little less tactical and broad. The other thing, like, underneath kind of that tech umbrella of, like, we rail against it, but also we embrace it at the same time, a visual aesthetic that I think will be trending a lot is this, like, retro futurism. So I think we'll see this with a lot of campaign art direction. It's essentially like positioning tech optimism with nostalgia so people are comfortable embracing the tech. Like, this feels familiar and comfortable, but also this is bold and futuristic. So on Running did that with like a shoe campaign with Zendaya. Bandit did a similar thing with their shoe drop, like, with this, like, outer space kind of look like we're seeing more of that. And I think this kind of retro futurism aesthetic you're going to see crop up a lot in campaigns.
- [66:14]
A
We tried to do a little bit of it with the Maverick, where it.
- [66:17]
B
Was like, I liked how you all did it differently because. And again, this is okay on. And Bandit did retro futurism so how can you position it, like, in your own unique way?
- [66:31]
A
Agreed. I think one thing that's important when anybody's developing these campaigns is if we're only looking at art direction as the single thing that we're going to communicate, that's a problem.
- [66:41]
B
Yep.
- [66:42]
A
And so there needs to be. Okay, yes, there's art direction, but what is the actual, actual story that is getting told here?
- [66:50]
B
What's the story and what's the goal? Like, what are the little things we're trying to sneak into the story?
- [66:54]
A
Yes. Because there are people that have done. And we have done the same, like, aesthetic. Right. Where we could even take Maverick that I've shot on a treadmill in a studio, et cetera. And that's for them. That's the whole campy campaign. Because it's all. It's just the look. Like, they're just going for the look, and then you actually watch the content and it's just like text overlays on top of it. And I'm like, well, yeah, like, you know, that's the. That's interesting. But there's no substance there.
- [67:22]
B
That's the. Again, that's becoming saturated. People are able to produce high quality content really well. So there has to be strategy behind, like, what you're producing, like a story.
- [67:33]
A
And so if you look at the Maverick campaign as an example, for the eighth post, to make sense, you have to consume the seventh post.
- [67:41]
B
Yeah.
- [67:41]
A
And the sixth and the fifth and the fourth, all the way down to the first. Every part of it was, or like, it literally was, you know, 18 or 19 pieces of content that all told a sequential story. Right. And so, excuse me, the treadmill scenario, it wasn't us just doing that for a specific aesthetic. So it looks a specific way. Right on feed. It was actually. The scientist is so precise that we use a spotlight on the treadmill to create the feeling of obsession that this guy has of, like, I am maniacally looking at my test subject and observing them and looking at all the data. It's not just, oh, it would be cool to have a silhouette with a spotlight behind it to mimic X.
- [68:25]
B
And back to, you know, I mean, if we can say, the podcast that we're releasing where we interviewed the founders of apl, they were talking about, we don't lead with all of the insane tech specs in our shoe because people glaze over and they don't care. Yeah. We sneak it in through the story and through the esthetic, and then when they dive deeper. Oh, yeah. And here's all the tech behind the product. And that's exactly what you all did. How can we. The whole thing behind this mad scientist who's so obsessed with precision is because there is so much tech inside of that shoe.
- [68:59]
A
100%.
- [69:00]
B
I think that's it for me.
- [69:01]
A
Yeah. We've hit for, I think, like an hour. I don't know, hour plus as we.
- [69:07]
B
Wrap up Use AI, launch a newsletter, delete yourself, your Instagram.
- [69:13]
A
All right, so to wrap this thing up, we're actually going to package this into, like, a notion, all of our notes into something that you can just look this. We're filming this. If you're watching this on Tuesday, December 9th, we're literally filming it December 8th. So we're going to sprint to be able to get this done, but we're going to put this all. A bunch of links so you can look at a bunch of stuff is in the show.
- [69:33]
B
Notes.
- [69:34]
A
Yeah. I have to add a lot of context. I saw your notion page and I was like, oh, shit. Like, I gotta. The hesitation was more so for me than you. I saw how much work you did, like, how much you prepped it.
- [69:45]
B
We can pull. Yours are so tactical on their own that I feel like it'll be easy to just. Let's pull links and.
- [69:52]
A
Yeah, I'll put some stuff. I'll put some stuff in there. But we hope you enjoyed that. Tatum and I are probably gonna be doing another episode eventually, if not soon. All we do is talk this.
- [70:04]
B
Talk about this, so we might as well put a camera to it. And.
- [70:07]
A
And we got some dope ship launch in next year.
- [70:10]
B
Yes.
- [70:11]
A
So, all right, y', all, if you haven't already, like, subscribe, please help us out. We're going to be doing a lot for this, like. But yeah, welcome to YouTube. And then Tatum, plug all of your.
- [70:22]
B
So you can find me. I hang out the most on Instagram at Tatum Branch and then my creative studio. I focus on brand strategy and identity Design. That's BrandT BR A N DT CREATIVE CO. Both Instagram and URL. So.
- [70:37]
A
And plug your agency. What you guys do to.
- [70:39]
B
Yes, so we do brand strategy and identity design and brand messaging work primarily for the fitness and wellness industry. So if you see the hyper focus on fitness and wellness, that's what we build out. We work with brands who are both going through, like, a rebrand process and trying to actually establish their personality for the first time when they built a successful company. You kind of hit your limit of diy and then. Okay, we got to go back to the foundations or startups who are like, we're approaching our first round of funding. We need to get some of this shit dialed in. The product is excellent. Let's actually get the brand taken care of.
- [71:15]
A
You're going to see our.
- [71:17]
Our rebrand coming out in a bit. Like, you guys did that.
- [71:21]
B
Yeah. You guys, we got to work on a house of distribution, and that was fun. We got to, like, we got to go a little more themed, and I like how it turned out.
- [71:30]
A
I'm excited for it to, like, roll it out, and we have content that we have to film for it. Yeah, it's gonna be cool. All right, y'. All appreciate you guys tune in next time.