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- [00:01]
A
We've both been scripting a good amount. What's. What's the best hook you've written?
- [00:06]
B
I could finally not worry about breaking an elevator for weight loss.
- [00:10]
A
This is definitely no zempic ad.
- [00:12]
B
Yeah, yeah, that was the first. That was the one where I was like, why is this working? Because, I mean, it just grabs. It gets people's attention.
- [00:23]
A
Is that like a. That's a verbal hook.
- [00:26]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like, I always used to get nervous, like, getting into elevators because I didn't want to be the one to, like, said it, like, if we got stuck, everyone would look at me.
- [00:38]
A
Have you ever one. That's a great, that's a great copy. Have you ever seen that video of that family? They're all weighing themselves and they're all like, from 600 pound life kind of. Kind of people, right?
- [00:50]
B
Yeah.
- [00:50]
A
And so the guy goes up there, he weighs himself and he's like, six oh something. He's like, damn. Like, I didn't know it was that heavy. And then like the. Either somebody else in the family goes. And she weighs herself and she's like, you know, I'm scared. Like, how, how heavy does or how high does this scale go? And the nurse is like, oh, it goes, it goes high. And she steps on the scale and the nurse goes, 823 pounds. And the guy goes. And he. Dude's 600 and like odd pounds, right? And he goes, damn. And it's like, that's crazy.
- [01:28]
B
You need to send me that clip so I can, so I can split screen that.
- [01:31]
A
By the way, it is the funniest clip.
- [01:33]
B
Yeah, no, I, I. The more outrageous, the better. I mean, I think one of the biggest things you have to introduce is a little bit of novelties to someone's feed, you know, so we have several clients in this kind of telehealth world that, you know, you can get a little PG13 with the hooks, I would say.
- [01:51]
A
And, and I think the, the good thing, because, you know, you're seeing this in telehealth and you're seeing this in supplements where there's outrageous claims. Yeah, absolutely outrageous claims.
- [02:00]
B
FTC violation claims.
- [02:02]
A
Yes. You know, we talked about avi. Like, they, they have some claims of kind of awkward.
- [02:06]
B
I was, I got coffee with some of AVI's investors yesterday and, and they, they were like, yeah, like, they're just kind of, you know, they're a little crazy.
- [02:14]
A
They are. Yeah, they are. And you know, you look at some of the claims that they're doing in their copy and it's, it's crazy. It would make me never, ever want to buy products for the brand. Right?
- [02:24]
B
Yeah.
- [02:25]
A
But what you did with that hook is like there's, there's nothing wrong with it. It's literally just clever copy.
- [02:33]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's just like a relatable scenario. Like if, if there's like eight people on an elevator and the elevator gets stopped and one person's like 350, you're looking at that person, you're like, yo, you weren't here. You know.
- [02:48]
A
And to me, it's like you looked at somebody's dream outcome and you were able kind of reverse engineer into a relatable situation and write it into a good hook. Yeah, that's hilarious.
- [02:57]
B
Yeah, so that I whipped that one out recently. But the reason I've been thinking about outrageous hooks and novelty is because ever since we had the good to great episode, everything like that is sticking out like a sore thumb because so many people are doing good ideas with terrible execution and good ideas like that one, for example, if the visual hook isn't good, then it won't work either. Right. And so there's a couple of things I wanted to talk about today. So they're not really that related, to be honest. But one of them is Bryson Dechambeauty. So I think his YouTube and TikTok strategy is amazing. And it's a clear example of like what the next wave of athletes, celebrities have to do. Because I think it's not enough to be a celebrity anymore or a prominent athlete. Like athletes and celebrities are not marketable because we talk about this all the time. The content minutes thing, where if I'm spending every day I'm seeing a Bryson DeChambeau TikTok and then I'm watching his YouTube video on Mondays. Rory cannot compete for my heart. Right. Because I'm. I'm homies with this guy. Basically. You start a. That's true. That was sauce. But like, you know, that's a really clever way to actually endure yourself to people. But, you know, that's great for fans. But think about the marketability, you know, when he drops products, like when he's working with Reebok or when he's working with his own brand. Right. Like people are going to want to support it more than, you know, know, just a random billboard or whatever it is. And so going to look at his content strategy, some of the things he's doing because he's incorporating a lot of Mr. Beast with the challenge based stuff with kind of like the numerical precision like, we're going to start on level one, and then it's going to get progressively harder through the video, and you're going to see if I can reach this goal.
- [04:47]
A
And is he the one that did. He was trying to hit a golf ball over his house.
- [04:52]
B
Correct.
- [04:53]
A
Oh, okay, then. I do know. I just don't know golfers names.
- [04:55]
B
Yeah, yeah. So he.
- [04:56]
A
I don't respect golfing.
- [04:58]
B
That is so bad. It's embarrassing for you, honestly.
- [05:03]
A
No, I, I, I meant as a. What? I'm, I'm more so like, taking your. It's a bet your hook about, like, you said that about running.
- [05:11]
B
I know, I know. And our new guy threw that on an Instagram carousel.
- [05:15]
A
He said that you wanted it.
- [05:17]
B
Yeah, I, I mean, I guess. I don't know. So that's one thing is I want to talk about, like, that content strategy and what it means for the future of, like, athletes and celebrities as content creators. Because it's not just enough to, you know, like, Glen Powell just launched a sauce brand. Right? It's about as hollow of a sponsorship as you could ever see. Literally. It's just Glen Powell, sauce brand. He's not going to be involved. He's got no role in it. There's nothing unique about the sauces, like, it getting killed right now in the health and wellness space because the ingredients are filled with, you know, palm oil and all these, like, kind of ingredients that got wrecked over the last five years in that space. And everyone's just like, why are you doing this? Like, does it just taste better? Is that what you're doing? And, like, unless he leans in and is like, the sauce guy, then the brand has no chance. Right? It's not just gonna sell because it's.
- [06:07]
A
Got a face, starts cooking show. He starts, like, these challenges. He starts doing all of that.
- [06:11]
B
And if he, like, incorporates the sauce into, like, some great social content, great, that'll work. But otherwise, it literally does not stand a chance versus someone like, any of the food creators we know, like our homie Zach. Like, if Zach launched a sauce and that was in three videos a week and in his YouTube content, it's going to move crazy way, right? So Bryson is one of the few athletes I think, that understands this. He's basically turned into a content creator full time. He vlogs. He has series on YouTube. He has series on short form.
- [06:41]
A
I did follow him after I saw that how many, how many days it was going to take for him to hit whatever it was, the golf ball over his house.
- [06:48]
B
I think it took him 11 days.
- [06:50]
A
In that range of, like, 11 to 16 days.
- [06:52]
B
And like, any series, it peaks from, like, day, like, 6 to 10, because the tension is so strong, right? Like, I did a video on that Jenny Hoyos girl, and, like, one of the things she talks about so much is, like, storytelling is all about tension. Like, you have to keep them, you know, wanting to see the end. And the video I sent you earlier, which we'll put up on the screen is.
- [07:12]
A
Where'd you send it again?
- [07:13]
B
I texted it to you. The video is, you know, seeing if he can hit a balloon with a. With a golf ball. And then on the top of the screen, it shows the five levels, level one being the easiest. It's like, obviously he's going to hit that. Level five looks borderline impossible. And for whatever reason, in his caption again, he says level two was impossible. Right? Like, that's okay, you know, let's backtrack a little bit. So level one looks easy. He's clearly gonna hit it right off the bat. That's the hook. The visual hook is clear. Level two. Like, before you even play this video, he says, level two is impossible. I think he's gonna hit level two. So when he's saying that's impossible, it's like, oh, is he gonna take five shots at this? Like, is he gonna, you know, so you're adding a layer, a layer of intrigue, of why you want to pay attention, you know? And so, like, that's the power of the caption. Like, everyone underestimates the caption. I see this so much where brands, like, will write just a paragraph as if they don't look at, you know, what TikTok, what Instagram cut off with their captions these days. So you have to almost, like, do a clickbaity. Like, I never believed this. Or you'll never believe this. Here's what I found. Like, some sort of, you know, stick around till the end copy. That's really short, really sweet because everything gets cut off. So if you start rambling with a paragraph, like, that's not going to work. So amazing job on that piece of content. Like, and it's the Mr. Beast strategy, right? Any athlete can do this. Jayson Tatum is the least liked player in the NBA right now for being as prominent as he is. Imagine if he just started showing how insanely good at basketball he is, you know, like, there's another golfer, Grant Horvat, who he's doing these series where on YouTube, he'll do a 2v2 match play where it's him. Phil Mickelson, legend, and then playing Jon Rahm, who used to be the world number one, and Josh Allen, the QB of the Bills. So if you think about that piece of content, like, Phil and Jon Rom are. Are as good of golfers as humanly possible. Usually you're watching them on tv, but now you're watching them first person POV vlog style. And the level of, like, play that they have is just insane. You know, you're blown away watching these guys, and it's so fun to watch and appreciate. Every athlete has the same potential to do that. Like, if Josh Allen leaned into, you know, as a target practice series, right? Or like, he just leaned into different cool things he could do with the football. Like, any athlete has this ability, and what they're doing is expanding their amount of content minutes. And why does this appeal or what. What. What does this mean for brands? Like, we get a million people who are saying, how do I do this for an H VAC business? Or, how do I do this for a conventional services business? Are you an expert in your trade? What do you know more than other people? And how are you going to display that visually through content? Okay, that's your starting point. But learn from these guys where they're creating challenges, you know, they're creating reasons to stick around till the end. Like, if you're an H VAC guy, you want to show, you want to be like, all right, we're fixing five houses today. Number three was a complete beast. You will never believe what was going on at this house. You know, think about a guy who, like, cleans gutters, power, washes streets, right? These are, like, abilities to have unlimited demand for your business. If you just create content around how good you are at something, you know, and you're doing it already. You're already doing the activity. But now film it and watch what it does for your lead flow.
- [10:57]
A
100%. I. One of my best friends, Alex, his little brother Brian. Like, my little brother.
- [11:04]
B
But you just said your friend Alex's little brother, Brian.
- [11:08]
A
Yes.
- [11:09]
B
That's insane. You don't. You're not seeing what's going on there.
- [11:13]
A
My best friend.
- [11:14]
B
You just. Sounds like you just made up a story about us on the side.
- [11:18]
A
Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's odd. Yeah, that, that, that. That's odd.
- [11:22]
B
I know you're. You got wedding week, bro.
- [11:24]
A
Yeah, I'm not even thinking about. I'm like, what's. What's the problem with that?
- [11:27]
B
I. I don't know if that was. I thought you were Hooking me.
- [11:31]
A
So he started a lure company called Pangler Lures. Okay. And I told him, he was like, hey, like, I want to start making content. I don't. I just don't know what I should be making. I was like, look, easiest thing you could do is go to YouTube, find some of the most viral things in that category or in other categories, right? Like, like you're saying, go to Mr. Beast's channel and see what are the titles and then see, okay, what can I do that's similar to that? And so one thing, one of the ideas I gave him or concepts I gave him was go buy $50 lures. He's on the other end of, like, these are cheaper lures, but they perform just as good as. As the. I was like, do $50 lure versus a $5 lure, 100$1 lure versus a $10 lure. Right? So he started doing those concepts. Another one that I, I told him to do was have like a bunch of random lures. And it was like, whatever lure I grab out of here, I'm going to try to go catch a fish. That was another one. And then the third one that was gamified was giving himself, I think it was like 30 minutes to catch a fish.
- [12:28]
B
Yeah.
- [12:28]
A
So it was like, you know, he had to actively go around a lane, pacing, tension. Yeah, dude.
- [12:32]
B
Yeah.
- [12:33]
A
And so he's in the process of making those videos now. But it's like you're saying where. When you. As soon as you sent me this video, I was locked in. I was like, as soon as I watched, there was a few parts to it. As soon as I saw the first level, I was like, okay, I'm curious by him kind of showing. Jenny Hoyas always, always talks about this of, of foreshadowing and showing the different levels up top. I automatically wanted to know, like, can he really hit level five? Because they kind of showed me level five beforehand. Yeah, that was super interesting. And then the, like you said, the. In the caption said level two was nearly impossible. By level two, I'm bought in. You know what I'm saying? So it's like they used the foreshadowing, they used the first shot, and they used the caption as three hooks to get me to buy in. Because by the time level two happens, yeah, of course I'm going to stick around to see level three, level four, level five.
- [13:25]
B
And one other thing we talk about is the. But there for the zigzag, right? Like, okay, so level one, auto drain. It seems like level two, he's going to hit it. He introduces that like at the beginning, right when you're not going to pay attention anymore. He gives you kind of like a little head fake, right? He missed level two.
- [13:43]
A
Yeah.
- [13:43]
B
He hits three and four, which are insane shots, like unbelievable. But he missed two. And so it's an expectation setting. Like the foreshadowing thing is what a lot of people don't understand is why people stick around. You know, they want to stick around to see like something that they wouldn't expect.
- [14:01]
A
The one thing that I think there's another option or like very variation of this that we can touch on for his video. The short caption worked really well. What I've tested with my content is if I have a video that I know is going to perform well, but regardless, I will write a very long caption and I'll use the caption as a retention tool. And the reason for that is if somebody's watching my video, right. And they watch a few seconds and then I basically do the same thing. I put a hook as, as the first part and then I go into more detail. Because right. When you're writing a script, you don't go into as much detail as possible because you're trying to get it under 40, 50 seconds. But the caption doesn't matter. The caption could be as long as you. I mean, eventually you run out of characters, but you can write, you know, what would be like a two minute script in your caption. So I'll use the caption to elaborate more on, essentially give more context on the video and like the details in the video. And I use that as a retention tool because as soon as somebody opens up the caption to read it, that counts as watch time.
- [15:09]
B
Yeah.
- [15:09]
A
You know what I mean? And so you can use your caption to actually get people to watch your video and increase your watch time because it's still playing in the background.
- [15:17]
B
So you can. You know what, you know what's really interesting is you. It's harder to do that on TikTok because TikTok doesn't let you put the spaces in captions, whereas Instagram lets you put the indents.
- [15:29]
A
And it's cleaner, Right.
- [15:30]
B
And it's much cleaner.
- [15:31]
A
But like reading this I was specifically talking about.
- [15:33]
B
Right. And TikTok just doesn't want you to read. Yeah, Maybe that's like their overall scroll. Yeah. The Chinese propaganda of TikTok is making us illiterate. Like, who knows they're playing chess over here. Yeah, that's 4D chess.
- [15:46]
A
Yeah. They're playing chess over here.
- [15:49]
B
So another cool thing about Bryson, right, is his YouTube stuff. So he always is trying to accomplish the impossible, right? Can I break a course record in one try? Can I break 50 is his kind of signature series. So he did a can I break 50 with all these prominent YouTube golf influencers. Breaking 50 is like him and another golfer trying to literally shoot a 50 on 18 holes.
- [16:14]
A
It's crazy.
- [16:15]
B
Which is like, him and another pro, probably pretty good chance of that. But like, anyone mid, like, it's ridiculously hard. And that's amazing, right? Like, it's just like, there's intrigue. It's. It seems impossible. It's novel. No one's ever done it before. Only he could really do it. And then it's repeatable because not only can he do new courses, but he can always incorporate new partners, right? So the partner of. I mean, he did one with Trump, he did one with, like, all these other, you know, Matthew Stafford, whatever. So really awesome job. And it all comes back to, like, the stuff that Mr. Beast has shared extremely publicly. You know, like, you want to have something novel, you want to have a number attached to it. Like, you want to have a reason to stick around. I mean, Mr. Beast often calls it, like, morbid curiosity because he'll be like, I'm leaving them on an island for 30 days. And if they survive, they get $50,000. With Bryson, it's not necessarily morbid curiosity, but it is at least like, you know, I'm extremely curious to see if he's going to accomplish this impossible challenge. And I really think, you know, the through line of looking at something like that and then applying it to. It's like you want. It's almost like copywriting, you know, like copywriting. The idea is you see something you like and then you write it down. You know, it's like a passage from a sales letter you really like. You go write it. And by writing it, that makes your head think in the same way that the copy was written. And so from there on out, that's how you're going to think about copy. I think you want to do the same thing when you watch someone like Bryson, you know, the Chunky Fit guys or whoever it is, right? Like these really strong content creation forward brands can take this exact can I break 50 concept and incorporate it like you said with your buddy with the lure. I think the, you know, I'm gonna go catch. Try and catch a fish with whatever lure I ca. I use. That's really interesting. You know, like, is he gonna run into a massive fish that can't handle that or like is it gonna work?
- [18:15]
A
So, dude, we were working with a cookie company and this was. You and I have talked about this where like founders that just have terrible ideas and they always think their ideas are the best ideas, but they never get an idea to crack. We had an idea where we wanted to do like a, a street series. Not like fully interview series, but more so setting up something on the street, having it where it was you would win. It was like 100 or $200 and we made like a five pound cookie. And then you had essentially it was going to be 10 minutes, I think it was to eat this like five pound cookie. And it has all of the viral factors. Right. It has the visual hook, it has the stakes, it has, it has all like, it creates all the tension. You're able to create more tension if the person's sweating, if they're about to give up. You have a timer on the clock and never ran with it, which is crazy to me. But I mean, I don't know if you. Did you meet Jake? Yeah. You met Jake. Date night kitchen.
- [19:10]
B
Yeah.
- [19:11]
A
He built his entire following bit off of that idea. Not his entire phone, but that, that idea of I think dollar cookie versus or not dollar cookie, but one hour par. One minute par. Like one minute chicken parm. One hour chicken parm and then like ten hour chicken parm.
- [19:28]
B
Yeah.
- [19:29]
A
Right. And like he did like a lot of these concepts or you know, I think he did do one. It was one. One minute brownie. One hour brownie and then like ten hour or a hundred hour brownie or something like that. And once you. And it's like you're talking about as soon as you buy into like that first 10 seconds, you're hooked. Yeah, that like that's the beauty of these videos where you're just revealing more and more and more. And as you reveal more and more you get hooked more and more.
- [19:58]
B
Yeah. This is the power of copywriting and understanding that less is more. Because one thing I'll say is high school English ruined everyone's ability to write good copy. Because high school English and AP English, whatever it is, when you're being taught to write in school, you are over expanding. You're trying to hit a word count that is so much higher than what you actually need. Unless you're writing science based research paper.
- [20:25]
A
Yeah.
- [20:26]
B
And so it's actually very counterintuitive to, to over explain. And you see this all the time where in script writing, I would assume you never. Something that. I have a rule in my script where it's like, if the line can't stand alone, then there's not a second line to explain it. That just means the first line was unclear. And people need to understand that the power of just a banger sentence is unlimited. So this guy, he says, pov, you stupidly designed knit sweaters based on the solar system. Okay, great. What's up, dude? Show me, you know, show me the sweaters. And then he goes, I'm committed. Yeah, and then he goes into the sweaters, right? And it's like Neptune, Saturn, like your Uranus. And I think what's crazy about that is again, like, that video is so simple. He's just putting his idea into words, but he didn't say it's the way he wrote it is extremely socially native pov. You know, you stupidly. It's kind of like self deprecating. You stupidly designed sweaters.
- [21:29]
A
And so it would have been so different if you would have said, you know, pov, you were inspired by the. The planets to design of a collection. It would have been like, or.
- [21:37]
B
Or cool or. Or the worst is what most people would do. Just launched.
- [21:42]
A
Yeah.
- [21:43]
B
New solar system sweaters.
- [21:44]
A
Now live.
- [21:45]
B
Yeah, now live. Like, get them while you can.
- [21:48]
A
Yeah.
- [21:49]
B
No, dude, like, you got to stop pushing rather than pulling. You know, everyone tries to push their product rather than creating something that pulls in authentic attention and demand. And that's really what he did is, you know, he captures your attention, then delivers a crazy result because you see the sweaters, you're like, yo, he's fire. You know, and it's like, now you kind of have a cool story behind it. And a lot of this comes back to, you know, the way that people buy, psychology wise. So people buy based on a few different things. Number one, obviously fomo, like, they don't. They don't want to miss out on something, and so they buy it and take advantage of that. But there's also kind of like the social pressure element of it where everyone else is buying this thing. So I want to be a part of that club. People want to be early adopters. So I want to buy this sweater because I saw this video. I was. It was serendipity that allowed me to see this video. And now I'm cool because I have this thing that I can gatekeep from people, right? And what people don't want to buy off of is an Instagram ad that their friends have also seen. I think that is like an untalked about experience in our market is there's nothing more cringe than when it's kind of like saying you met your girlfriend on a dating app. Right? It's the same thing where it's, oh, you know, you say, I'm wearing this piece, and some guy's like, y'all, did you buy that off? Ignore. You bought that off an Instagram ad, huh? I'm cooked.
- [23:16]
A
I got hit with the same Instagram. Yeah, yeah.
- [23:17]
B
He's like, I saw that ad, but I didn't buy it.
- [23:20]
A
Yeah.
- [23:20]
B
I'm like, damn, bro. I don't know why. And maybe I'm just a tweaker, but, like, that really ruins a lot of the aura of a piece, you know, or a purchase, whatever it is. Like someone's being like, yeah, I saw that on Instagram. And it's like, oh, this brand was just pushing to all of us, and I was the sucker that fell for it. Versus you see something cooler. Serendipity to it. You're early, and that's really the difference between organic and paid is you're building fans rather than customers, and you're not forcing yourself on anybody. So, you know, think about, like, the. The services business we were talking about earlier, right? Like, that is truly the best differentiator you could have. People are be like, yeah, I love your. I love your content. I just want to see you, like, work on my house. Yeah, that's crazy.
- [24:08]
A
It's such a different experience. I mean, and even I'm sure you're experiencing this, too. With the. With the agency. It is so much. It's so much easier to sell because they want to work with you.
- [24:19]
B
Yeah.
- [24:19]
A
Versus having to do cold outreach and trying to. To get a meeting and get them to answer an email and pitch on a call. It's so much easier to pitch when it's like, look, you're the resource that I'm always listening to, that I'm always sending. And that, you know, is getting shared in Slack, like, how can we work together? Yeah, that's a different conversation. And it creates that same feeling when it's. When it is for your service business, whether it's a boring business or whether it's. It's a DTC brand or CPG brand. It's like, I'm buying from you because I want your product. I like your product. You don't have to sell me on this. Like, you've sold me through the organic content. It's. It is. It's this mechanism of pulling versus pushing on.
- [24:59]
B
Wallets are tightening Right now.
- [25:01]
A
Yeah.
- [25:01]
B
You know, so the brands that are still going to be fine have affinity because people want those things to. They're not just spending discretionary as much as they were. So if wallets are tightening, then how are you going to get through to them? It's not going to be just pumping more money into Facebook ads. Right. Like, no matter what your product is, it's not that in demand. So you have to emphasize these things. And I guess what, we will just scream until the freaking, you know, lights go out. It's like, dude, everything's right there for you. You know, like all just study these YouTubers. Like a video I'm making soon. Is that a lot of your hooks, a lot of your hook ideas can be found in viral YouTube titles. That's like a video I'm about to try and drop pretty soon. Because if a title works, it's literally so simple. If a thumbnail and title works on YouTube, boom. Proven extreme curiosity driver. Because people are clicking that in the massive content, they're not getting it on an algorithmically driven feed. It's not necessarily like a visual hook. It's just the packaging of the concept and they're driving so many clicks through those ideas.
- [26:09]
A
I. Some of my most viral clips were basically me taking. Sorry. Yeah. Some among those viral clips for the podcast where me taking a hook from YouTube and then just reworking it for.
- [26:24]
B
Yeah.
- [26:25]
A
When I introduced something for. For the pod. And I think we even talked about that on a segment we. This was an earlier episode where we actually Talked about taking YouTube hooks and recreating them for. For social. It might have been stem based off of Jake, but yeah, if it's there, if it exists on YouTube, just recreate it within your category.
- [26:46]
B
Yeah.
- [26:46]
A
Like you could look at Mr. Beast's content and. Or anybody. Not just Mr. Beast, you could look at Ryan Train. You could look at even smaller YouTubers that are. That are popping off. I mean, it's. Why, for example, actually, the inverse. Actually, you know, Daniel Dallin.
- [27:01]
B
Yeah, I. I do. I don't really know what his deal.
- [27:05]
A
Is though, and I'm not even getting into that. But think about this. All he did was he took the inverse and he looked at ig where. Where IG POV XYZ was popping off and he went and did it on YouTube and now everybody's now copying him on YouTube.
- [27:22]
B
Should we start hitting POV titles on our YouTube videos?
- [27:25]
A
I think we did one and then we changed it because we were like, ah, that doesn't hit for you, do you kind of remember that.
- [27:30]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, if anyone's got title advice, hit the boys. Yeah, you know, I did. I decided not to be hungover for this podcast. I just want to make this one. Yeah, yeah.
- [27:42]
A
Did you go out last night?
- [27:43]
B
I went out and got some sushi and sake, and I could have pressed. I could have kept going, but that's what I do for the fam, you know, hold it down. One thing that could be interesting for the audience is I did do a video on Jenny Hoyos the other day, and the three things that she does are so helpful, I think, for anyone who's trying to create content for their brand. So number one is power words. So you mentioned earlier that Jake was doing a really good job with the contrast stuff, like $1 chicken sandwich versus $6 chick fil. A sandwich. Which one's gonna be better? And she tries to make a, you know, chicken sandwich for $1. It's not just $1. It's free, it's secret. It's, you know, any sort of power word that is going to instantly make you be like, whoa, okay, like what? There's again, it's an extreme, I guess an extreme descriptor. Pretty much all of her videos above 10 million views start with a power word, which is crazy. Like, she found her thing and she just pressed it over and over and over again.
- [28:42]
A
As she should.
- [28:42]
B
As she should. And the whole goal of a power word is you have to trigger a really strong response. Right. That neural response of free. The OG stuff for this is always billboards or it's always know ad in the newspaper. Like, dude, I'm reading this book right now called Barbarians at the Gate. It's about Nabisco and.
- [29:07]
A
Are you reading or using audible?
- [29:09]
B
I'm reading.
- [29:10]
A
It's the first book you read probably in two years.
- [29:12]
B
Dude, the way this tickles my brain is crazy.
- [29:16]
A
There's something about a physical book. Yeah, I love it.
- [29:19]
B
I. It's. It's my first book that I've been able to get into in a while. I've probably tried. Four have dabbled, and none of them tickled. And so this one started tickling right off the bat. And that's how you knew. Yeah. But anyway, so it was fascinating to read about. So the origins of a couple of companies for them that they were talking about. So it's. One of them was Standard brands. Another one was Nabisco, and then the third one was RJR Reynolds, which was like a massive tobacco company. So basically you had the people who Invented the Ritz Cracker, the people who invented the Oreo, and the people who invented, like, fucking cigarettes, basically. And so these three massive brands, you know, they all started kind of like late 1800s, early 1900s. What was fascinating to me was advertising agencies back then were still pumping out bangers, you know, like, more than ever, 130 years ago, people were coming up with product names that were ingrained and going viral at the time, right? So, you know, the Nabisco's first product was you need a biscuit. The product name was you need a. Yeah, like you and E E, D A. And so they would always, like, their. Their billboard would just be, do you need a biscuit? Or be like. And it was really funny how they had, like, all these amazing examples of copywriting, but everything about what they did was power word oriented. You know, it was always something that would give this connotation, like, you know, of an offer, right? Like free, you know, with gift, with purchase. Like, all these things have kind of been around for forever. So that was one thing I noticed about their stuff.
- [31:01]
A
There's a book. Oh, man. I'm blanking on the name. It might just be the copy. No, it's not the copywriting book. I'll send this to you. It is the best. It's the best copywriting book I've ever. I've ever read. And what's awesome about it is it's both visual and a ton of game, right? So it's like this swipe file with game in it, but it's an older book and I'm blanking on the. The blanket on what it. What it is, but it is. Copywriting back then had swag.
- [31:34]
B
It had so much swag.
- [31:35]
A
It had so much swag.
- [31:36]
B
It had to.
- [31:37]
A
It did. Because you had to elicit word of mouth, right? That was like. It was so different than now where you know, we're. We get an ad and we're trying to get a conversion out the gate, right? Like, that is the sole focus for a lot of these brands. Whereas there you were literally trying to evoke some kind of emotion to the point where you talk to somebody about it. Because virality was you talking about it.
- [32:02]
B
Yeah.
- [32:03]
A
You know, and you were playing such a different game. That's why that. That Rolls Royce copy written by Ogilvy is so legendary. Right? And like. And there's a lot with. What's the one with. With Lamborghini and. Oh, man. Lamborghini and like a. Some van company. And it's something along the lines of. Yeah, Your Lamborghini only. You can only pick up like one girl in your Lamborghini. Yeah, yeah, but it's like their car picked up nine or eight or something, you know, I mean, and it's like, yeah, these, it. That goes, you know, your elevator copy kind of reminded me of that a bit where you're, you're talking in a way where you don't have to like, make these crazy claims and promises and list the bullet points at which your product is so much better than somebody else. You just have to write. Yes. You have to like write with the swag of the person who can say the most clever thing at the bar or at the party or whatever it is. And it's, it's a frame of mind, dude. Like, and you're right, copy work is the, the best way of developing that.
- [33:10]
B
Yeah.
- [33:10]
A
You know, when I wrote my. When I've written my best copy in my best newsletters was because I was. And the ones that would get the most responses was when I was doing a ton of copy work. It was when I was I. And I learned this from Sam. Like, print out other newsletters that you like and that you read and get you to consume the entire thing. Print those out and write them out and see why. And then you figure it out. You figure out, oh, like how to be witty, how to like really make a strong point, how to make something stand out. You.
- [33:41]
B
You figure out training that muscle, right? It's, you know, there's that YouTube channel, Charisma on command or whatever. And don't get me wrong, you know, I don't think everyone needs to go watch Charisma on command to be. Become better with having Riz. But at the end of the day, when, when you hear those things over time, it's the same thing as working on a jump shot, working on a golf swing, working on anything. Like, your first hundred reps are just not going to be that great. But like, the more you're watching it, the more you're thinking about it. Like, the movements start to make sense. Like the, the rhythm, pacing, different ways to incorporate a power word, different ways to start a sentence, to interrupt a long sentence with a short bullet point sentence. Like, those things start to come to you. And that's what we talk about all the time with watching YouTubers and trying to put it into your brand's content is like, incorporate those things that you see over time. And I mean, I don't know about you. It's a hard thing to continue to do when you feel like you've kind of built that skill and I've noticed that recently. I feel like by writing scripts on ig, I'm becoming ass at written content. Like I'm like not able to write as banger of Twitter hooks as I used to. And so I'm kind of like trying to get back into the trenches a little bit and trying to sharpen that muscle again so that I can, you know, still be dangerous writing because writing is, writing is how you attract very intellectual folks. You know, visuals is really good for consumer but like writing is how you.
- [35:12]
A
Communicate to business owners and writing is the, the tool that and skill that if you do it very well, it impacts everything. There's not a thing you can build a business on the back end of writing.
- [35:25]
B
Yeah.
- [35:26]
A
And people do it right. That's all a newsletter is totally. But you can, it's the one skill that you can build an entire business off the back end. Because if you're a better writer, you write better scripts. If you're a better writer, you write better emails. If you're a better writer, you write better landing page and better sales copy and all of those and better like not emails as in like campaign emails, but emails to an investor.
- [35:49]
B
Yeah.
- [35:50]
A
Emails to. It doesn't matter who like it. You're just such a better communicator. The best communicators are the ones that, that win.
- [35:56]
B
I saw a tweet from the, the founder and CEO of Cloudflare and he said the most valuable skill he learned was English. Like writing. Because you said my. My investor updates were always written very well like storytelling principles like introduction, body, conclusion type stuff. And I think you see a lot of high level folks emphasizing that. And you know, if you're going to spend like 15 minutes, 30 minutes a day doing something, it's like try copy work, try like swipe file stuff because it compounds so much over time to make you more dangerous. And the more we shift into this world where know I almost think a lot of this copy that was borderline cheesy with you need a biscuit. You know that's like, that doesn't, that doesn't fly as much in today's day and age because people have seen everything. They've, they've, everything's been tried at this point. So like to really be novel, you almost have to like say something similarly corny, but more tongue in cheek and ironic. And you can only build that muscle by working on it anyway. So you know, power words, storytelling, tension, those are the three things you need to incorporate into your content more and watch how the numbers start performing better.
- [37:08]
A
Couldn't agree more. I'm interested. I feel like we should switch it up for Italy. We should brainstorm a little bit on, on a concept or something that we should do over there.
- [37:17]
B
For sure. I. I mean, I. I've actually been thinking about this a lot.
- [37:21]
A
How many bottles of wine can we drink in a 45 minute episode?
- [37:24]
B
I'll put you under. Under the table.
- [37:25]
A
Yeah, you will. Yeah, yeah. I'm not.
- [37:27]
B
I don't want to ruin your wedding week.
- [37:29]
A
I'm not doing that shit.
- [37:30]
B
Yeah, no, I was thinking about that. I actually think I'm going to experiment with a couple of like wall of text POV type videos while we're in like the Tuscan countryside. Dripped out.
- [37:41]
A
I 100% am.
- [37:43]
B
Yeah, because you got to. You should, you should, you know. Okay, I got one for you because you said this earlier. So you were like, my style is going to be old money, but you grew up in the ghetto pov. Your style is old money, but you grew up in the hood. And then you just show off the fit. It's gonna bang. I think that'll probably be pretty solid novel. Haven't really seen it.
- [38:04]
A
The only thing that's gonna happen is I'm gonna get the clearance comment because I did go to a private school. I did grow up in, in, in the hood, but I went to a private school.
- [38:13]
B
That's great. I mean, you're engagement farming, right? If you. If in that scenario, I think that's a win. If people.
- [38:19]
A
I'm just, I'm letting the people know now.
- [38:20]
B
So that you didn't grow up in the hood.
- [38:22]
A
No, I did. Golden Gate is. Let me compare. If there's like Liberty City, Miami. Golden Gate is not that. You know what I'm saying? But Golden Gate is definitely the. Like where we grew up is definitely the hood. Right. It's like saying the bad parts of East Austin here. Okay.
- [38:44]
B
Yeah.
- [38:44]
A
You know what I mean? Like you don't look at Austin and.
- [38:46]
B
Say you're like pre gentrified.
- [38:50]
A
They're not going to gentrify Golden Gate, I can promise you that.
- [38:53]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [38:53]
A
You know, like we got a Kmart and a Wind. A Kmart. First off, is Kmart still cooking in Golden Gate?
- [39:00]
B
That's sick.
- [39:01]
A
You know what I'm saying? Like Kmart is not a. If you live anywhere near a Kmart.
- [39:05]
B
Yeah, no, that says, you know, if.
- [39:08]
A
You live near a Quick pick.
- [39:11]
B
Winn Dixie. You said Winn Dixie.
- [39:12]
A
Yeah, I didn't know if you knew what Winn Dixie was.
- [39:14]
B
I know Winn Dixie, but okay, I'm.
- [39:15]
A
From South From Wind. Like, we had a Winn Dixie right across the street. So, you know what I mean? Like, it's definitely levels, but I'm just. But I did go to a private school because my mom was a teacher, and it was free.
- [39:27]
B
One question for the audience is, we're going to Italy. We're going to film a pod. No laptops, no prep. So, like, if you want to leave some things in the comments that you've always wanted to know, potentially about Alex, about myself, I think that would be.
- [39:43]
A
That could be interesting.
- [39:44]
B
Yeah. Like just a little ama, you know, like it's. Or you may. You may not care at all, which is totally fine, too.
- [39:51]
A
Totally fine.
- [39:52]
B
I'm down to be a talking hat. Like just be this floating character.
- [39:55]
A
No, I think people. Some of some people, you know, you read the comments and they care, which is cool, for sure, but it's definitely the minority.
- [40:04]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But those are the real ones.
- [40:06]
A
Yeah, those are the ones. We're making this episode for, for sure.
- [40:08]
B
But we're publishing this one on Tuesday. We're filming on Wednesday. So we will read those comments and definitely be able to incorporate them into the episode.
- [40:17]
A
And wait, so this goes out next Tuesday, and then we'll film when it goes out? Okay. So we'll be. We'll be fine.
- [40:23]
B
Yeah.
- [40:23]
A
I was worried we weren't going to have enough episodes.
- [40:25]
B
Yeah. Well, cool. Otherwise, you're still here. Please, like, subscribe. Share with somebody. You know, we need. Got to get that network effect going, but yeah, we'll catch you all in Italy.
- [40:38]
A
We'll see you in Italy.