How to Build A Cult Following In 2025

Summary

Episode Summary: How to Build a Cult Following In 2025

Release Date: December 17, 2024
Hosts: Alex Garcia & Brian Blum
Podcast: Sweat Equity by Marketing Examined

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In this engaging episode of Sweat Equity by Marketing Examined, hosts Alex Garcia and Brian Blum delve deep into the art and science of building a cult following for brands in 2025. Steering away from previous discussions that focused on individual brands, this episode presents a comprehensive "recipe" for cultivating a loyal and passionate fan base. The conversation is structured around six pivotal components essential for creating a cult-like following: Narrative Building, Mission Statements, Defining an Enemy, Characters, Pillars and Purpose, and Creating Social Series. Throughout the discussion, Alex and Brian utilize real-world examples and actionable insights to illustrate each concept.

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1. Narrative Building

[01:19]
Alex kicks off the conversation by emphasizing the importance of narrative building as the foundation for a cult following. He outlines two critical questions brands must address:

1. How would someone consuming your content describe it in three words or less?
2. What feeling does someone walk away with after engaging with your content?

Alex states, "If you can't actually be able to define that or answer that, then you're actually just creating content for content's sake" ([04:40]). This clarity helps brands ensure their content aligns consistently with their desired narrative.

Example:
Nike's "Just Do It" slogan exemplifies strong narrative building, where every campaign reinforces their overarching message of inspiration and athleticism.

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2. Mission Statements

[07:52]
The hosts transition to the significance of mission statements. Alex explains the distinction between internal and external missions:

• Internal Mission: The brand's internal goals and aspirations.
• External Mission: The mission that resonates with customers and encourages them to rally behind the brand.

He contrasts Nike’s mission, "To bring inspiration and innovation to every athlete in the world," with Puma's more self-centric mission, highlighting the need for mission statements to focus on customer value and inspiration. Alex notes, "A good mission isn't about you and who you want to be. It's about who you want to inspire, motivate, educate, and bring value to" ([09:06]).

Example:
4Ocean’s mission to "end the ocean plastic crisis" not only defines their internal goals but also engages customers by allowing them to contribute directly to this cause through purchases.

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3. Defining an Enemy

[15:21]
Brian introduces the concept of defining an enemy as a cornerstone for building brand loyalty. An enemy can be an action, product, corporation, or even an undesirable version of oneself. This adversary galvanizes the customer base and strengthens their connection to the brand.

Example:
Midday Squares positions large chocolate companies like Hershey’s and Nestlé as their enemies, creating a clear contrast that elevates their brand in the eyes of consumers.

Brian emphasizes, "The enemy has to be someone that is attacking your customer. Because if not, the content's not going to hit the same" ([16:21]).

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4. Characters

[24:39]
Characters play a vital role in humanizing the brand and fostering emotional connections. Alex and Brian discuss how incorporating founders, employees, customers, and influencers as characters can transform products into beloved symbols.

Example:
Gymshark’s influencer C Bump and multiple hybrid athletes for BPN illustrate how characters can embody the brand’s values and mission, making the brand more relatable and engaging.

Alex remarks, "You need somebody that is taking a product and makes it something that people want to rally behind" ([25:39]).

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5. Pillars and Purpose

[27:14]
The conversation shifts to pillars and purpose, where each content type (pillar) is tied to a specific goal (purpose). This alignment ensures that every piece of content serves a strategic function within the broader marketing strategy.

Example:
Poor Boy Coffee utilizes their vlog content to build awareness and affinity by showcasing transparency, akin to reality TV shows like "Keeping Up with the Kardashians."

Brian points out, "If you attach a purpose to each pillar, then you understand why you're creating that content and repeating it week over week" ([28:07]).

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6. Creating Social Series

[29:53]
Alex introduces the idea of social series, likening brand content to TV shows that form habits and set expectations. By creating recurring content series, brands can maintain consistent engagement and keep their audience anticipating future content.

Example:
Midday Squares and Poor Boy Coffee have effectively built social series that align with their missions, fostering a routine engagement similar to beloved TV shows.

Brian adds, "Series allow you to say, you know what you're going to get. And this one is the craziest of them all" ([32:43]), highlighting how predictable yet entertaining content can drive sustained audience interest.

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Real-World Applications and Case Studies

Throughout the episode, Alex and Brian provide numerous examples of brands successfully implementing these components to build their cult followings:

• Poppy: Utilizes founder-led and employee-generated content to project a image of being silly, trendy, and healthy.
• 4Ocean: Combines a clear mission to eliminate ocean plastic with tangible actions like selling bracelets made from recycled plastic.
• Filter Baby: Excels in educational content that highlights the dangers of dirty water and positions their product as the solution.
• Jocko: Focuses on personal discipline as the enemy, aligning their products with the customer’s quest for self-improvement.

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Notable Quotes

• Alex Garcia: "If you can't actually be able to define that or answer that, then you're actually just creating content for content's sake." ([04:40])
• Brian Blum: "The enemy has to be someone that is attacking your customer. Because if not, the content's not going to hit the same." ([16:21])
• Alex Garcia: "You need somebody that is taking a product and makes it something that people want to rally behind." ([25:39])
• Brian Blum: "Series allow you to say, you know what you're going to get. And this one is the craziest of them all." ([32:43])

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Conclusion

In "How to Build a Cult Following In 2025," Alex Garcia and Brian Blum offer a detailed blueprint for brands aiming to transform their customer base into a dedicated community. By focusing on narrative building, mission statements, defining an enemy, incorporating characters, aligning pillars with purpose, and creating social series, brands can foster deep emotional connections and unwavering loyalty. This episode serves as an invaluable resource for marketers seeking to elevate their brand strategies and build lasting, impactful relationships with their audience.

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Takeaway: Building a cult following is not about isolated efforts but a cohesive strategy that intertwines the brand’s narrative, mission, and content into a compelling and consistent experience for the audience. Implementing these six key components can position a brand for sustained success and passionate customer engagement in the competitive landscape of 2025.

Transcript

[A]

It's crazy to kick off this episode because of your ankle. And I got a preface here that you, you know, you started the kind of like this little basketball league with Ben. And you guys pushed me kind of every other week maybe to come hoop with you guys. And I'm always like, no. And I love to hoop. I love to hoop. Absolutely love to hoop. It's my favorite thing to do. But I'm in this training phase right now. Training for the CrossFit Games, whatever, whatever. Taking training very seriously. And the last thing I want to do is get injured, roll an ankle. That's always the one I, I use as an example as well. What happened Tuesday.

[B]

You know, when a guy's past his prime, it's time to accept it. And unfortunately I, as a 29 year old man just, I'm out for four to six weeks because of an ankle sprain. And I've never been a part of anything more embarrassing in my life.

[A]

Cue the footage. Kane, cue the footage. This is when you got to show the ankle.

[B]

Yeah, no, hobbled, Hobbled. But we're still out here. We're still grinding.

[A]

Yeah. You walking into the office, walking to the bathroom, like whatever action you're kind of doing in the office today.

[B]

Look for context for everybody. You know, I literally cannot walk right now. And Alex, of all people, because he likes to pick on those who are lesser than him, is just kicking me while I'm down. So, you know.

[A]

Yeah, every time he gets up, Stanky leg is playing. Yeah, there's a joke being made. Something's happening.

[B]

What you got?

[A]

All right, so I, I, I got a kind of large segment today. You know, there was an episode that we did that it, it popped off like, it, it performed really well and it was like how to build a cult following. But in that episode I really just talked about one brand and kind of what they were doing. And so what I want to do in this episode is kind of give the recipe for building a cult following, building a cult fan base and where it really starts and then how it works from like going through doing, going and doing kind of these different exercises and understanding these different kind of more like philosophical aspects down to then the actual tactical aspects as well. And so there's six key components to really building a cult like fan base. And so I'm going to tackle that. I'll just get right into it. So the first thing that I want to address and that I think is the most important aspect is narrative building. And what this is, is as a brand, you have to be able to establish what that overarching narrative is the way I like to. There's two kind of questions that I like to ask and work with a brand on. And that first one is one, how would somebody that is consuming your content describe Your content in 3 words or less? And if you can't actually be able to define that or answer that, then you're actually just creating content for content sake. You have to be able to define that. And again, this is for somebody that's trying to create like a fan base. When your content gets published, somebody is consuming it. So you have to be able to look at it through the lens of a consumer and be able to understand and describe that content in three words or less. The second question is, what feeling does someone walk away from after consuming your content? Again, this is feeds off of being able to describe your content in three words or less. And so being able to do that is big because that helps you then create these filters for, okay, like, does this content actually match this feeling? If it doesn't, then we either A, we have to ditch it or B, we have to spin it to some degree so that it matches that. Again, talking about a specific brand that we work with, they had two feelings that they wanted to create with their content. One was like a fuck yeah feeling. Meaning that like fuck yeah. That's what I needed to hear. You know, like motivational from a motivational sense. Yeah, yeah. And then the other aspect was you wanted to have the feeling that you're looking, you're foreshadowing and looking at the person that you're supposed to become. Right? They're a supplement brand. Their founder is very motivational, inspirational, ex military. And so like they, they lean heavily into that and they want to create that feeling for people because then that creates a perfect bridge for supplements. Right? To be able to say, hey, I need to take this test booster, I need to take this, this protein, this carbohydrate powder, whatever, because it's going to help me do xyz. So examples of this narrative building, the, the most extreme example, and I think it's good to start with extreme examples so people first get a grasp of it before moving to smaller companies doing it. Is Nike. Right? Narrative building. Just do it. Every piece of content, every campaign, everything that they do feeds this overarching narrative and it amplifies that narrative to the point where slogans aren't just slogans. They're, they're a, essentially like a phrase that you say that people within your customer base take Action against they believe in it means a lot to them. Right. You look at other brands and their narrative that they have Midday squares is better for you. Chocolate Represent on a mission. Jocko's Discipline equals freedom. Bpn, Go on more. Right? These are these narratives that they're telling the world because people will rally behind narratives if over time you're amplifying that stories and creating stories that then amplify that narrative. And so it is very important going into 2025 that you sit down with your team, your content team, your creative team, with the founder, whoever, and you establish what that narrative is. You know, how would I describe our content? What we want the story we want to imprint on somebody's brain in 2025. And it really should be something that your is really like your narrative forever.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And it goes past a slogan, but narrative building is number one. Anything.

[B]

I think you could also ask people how, you know, ask a layman, you know, a random person like, hey, look at our grid. And how does this make you feel? Right? Because while you were saying that, all I could think about was some of the contemporary brands that we study all the time. And you know, Poppy is someone that's been on my mind recently because they're doing a really good job of founder led content as well as like employee generated content, which I think are these two really big trends. And when you look at their profile, it's very clear. They're silly, they're trendy, and they're healthy. That those are the three things that I feel like when I'm looking at their stuff. They're trying to create better for you slushies. They're trying to create a sleepy girl mocktail, whatever it is, like the recipe content is always healthy. They do a lot of skits that are very silly. And. And then at the end of it, it's like they're very on trend. Like they speak and millennial slop, if you will. You know, like the. Yeah.

[A]

And so to piggyback off of Poppy and the, the I'll go into the next core element because it feeds off of what you just said. But their mission is to create a culture of health and happiness by revolutionizing the soda experience. And so that right there of like health and happiness, what you just described feeds that. And I'm sure they have something internally where it's like, hey, this is our statement, but I'm sure it has something to do with happiness because you're right. Like they're very bubbly, very kind of happy out there. And so if they have that overarching narrative, then all of that content feeds that narrative. But then that attracts. Right. This specific kind of people that would drink Poppy over Olipop and Olipop over Poppy.

[B]

Well. And even it attracts the type of people that would choose them over Coke. I think the biggest thing for a lot of those better for you brands is as popping as they seem, no pun intended. They actually still have a long way to go. Overtaking any of the big powers in the space is like, you have a long, long, long way to go. And that's beverage. What's your retail sell through? And a lot of these folks haven't even scratched the surface in terms of markets and penetration. Like the. The video in question was their launch in Walmart. You know, think about how big Poppy is. And they're just now launching in Walmart. This thing is just scratched the surface.

[A]

Yeah. And that goes into the second point, which is your mission is something that is often overlooked because it's one of those things where you start a company, you're like, okay, what's our mission?

[B]

And it's kind of corny now. Almost like it's.

[A]

It's corny, but it's so key to an actual good content strategy. Right. And I actually, again, I have good examples here to be able to add to. And again, I think it's key to start with big brands so that it's very clear for somebody. But Nike's mission is to bring inspiration, innovation to every athlete in the world. If you have a body, you are an athlete. Okay, but what if their mission was to be the world's fastest sports brand? Does that hit the same?

[B]

No, because not everyone's trying to go fast. I can't even go fast right now.

[A]

You can't even go nowhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But even, like, let's. Let's break down the difference. Right. To bring inspiration, innovation to every athlete in the world. If you have a body, you are an athlete. That's Nike, the world's fastest sports brand. That is just talking about what Nike wants to accomplish, not what they're trying to help other people accomplish. Customers. Yeah. So the mission statement that I just read, the world's fastest sports brand, that's Puma.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Which, yeah, it makes sense because, like, Usain Bolt and whatnot. But they could have twisted it. Like, I think there's a difference between an internal mission and an external mission. And this is where it's key. Internal mission is like, this is what we're trying to accomplish as a brand. Employees like, this is what internally we rally behind. But the external mission is then what we get our customers to rally behind and what we're trying to like take them from A to B, B to C, etc. Because I would never rally behind the world's fastest sports brand because I'm not internally with the team caring about that shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But as Nike of like, okay, they're creating products because they're trying to bring inspiration and innovation to every athlete. And then they add the element, if you are a body, you're an athlete, that is something that then I could rally behind. When you attach it to that overarching narrative of just do it now, I feel a specific way about that. Because a good mission isn't about you and who you want to be. It's about who you want to inspire, motivate, educate, and bring value to. Because that value is what will connect people to your values. Right. And that's where again, it's key to have like this internal mission and the external mission. The external mission is the thing that you need to get your customers and your followers to rally behind. That is the thing that you need to scale via your content and make sure that you're communicating. Because at the end of the day, like that's all content is, it's communication at scale. And so if you have this overarching mission, then your content has to be feeding that mission over and over again. One of my favorite brands doing this, yes, we work with them is for ocean. Right. Their mission is to end the ocean plastic crisis. Okay. Now the question you need to ask yourself here is if you consume their content, is it tackling that mission over and over again? Is it communicating that mission over and over again? And it doesn't need to be directly where it's like, hey, our mission is do this, so we're doing this. It's more so indirectly, is it communicating that mission? If you consume their content, it is. A lot of their content pillars are stemmed around their mission. Whether it's behind the scenes of different cleanups that they're doing, a follow along series of how much, how many pounds a month that they're trying to clean. All of these content pillars play into their overarching narrative. So over time you're like taking your narrative and you're taking the mission. You're just like imprinting it in someone's mind until it becomes their mission. And the reason that they support you is because they support you because you're tackling this mission. And therefore by that person supporting you, they're also helping that thing happen. If I buy for. If I know that their mission is to end the ocean plastic crisis. And I know that every time I buy a bracelet, I'm removing five pounds of trash. And if I join one of their memberships, I'm removing 30 pounds of trash a month. Okay. Like, I'm helping that brand's mission be complete by being. Becoming a customer.

[B]

Yeah. And it helps in a lot of ways, because if you're a brand that has a mission and it's call it sustainability, if 4Ocean was reducing plastic by the ingredients in their bracelet rather than donations, then the mission's a lot different. Yes, it's by our bracelets to reduce your personal plastic footprint versus fund this mission of us trying to clean up the ocean. I think that's a really key distinction when you're putting your dollars towards something that could have an expected outcome. That feels a lot better as a customer because you're funding something you want to happen versus if you're just trying to buy, you know, call it renewable paper towels or renewable like detergent. Right. Like a lot. Mosey Wash is a great example of this where, you know, okay, it's great. He's done a really good job of not using the sustainability angle, but what if he was donating towards some sort of research around the effects of all of these forever chemicals in your laundry? Like, what if that was like, his mission to rally people around? Because I think you see a lot of this stuff with the macro environment right now. The make America healthy again, whatever. Not waiting into politics, but there is a trend right now of people rejecting a lot of these corporate, big, heavily chemically processed clothing, heavily chemically processed ingredients, and food. And so when you're thinking about your mission, it's not go reduce your personal footprint. It's we're actually a brand. The people behind this, the people you're funding, are actively trying to solve this problem. Like, we're trying to make a real impact rather than just, you know, hey, as long as you buy these jeans, then you just saved some water in China.

[A]

A sea turtle or some shit.

[B]

Yeah. And those sea turtles, they're not in a good spot anyway, no matter how many jeans you buy. So, you know, you gotta fund the people that are actually helping the sea turtles rather than hoping that it happens on the other side.

[A]

And I think with 4Ocean too, it's important because they are. Their product is even created on the back end of the recycling process of that plastic. Right. They. They recycle all the plastic and Then they turn it into the bracelet. They, like, break it down into a process.

[B]

How's the. How's the Ryan Reynolds thing going?

[A]

It goes live in, like, two weeks.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because they've been doing all their holiday content.

[B]

That'll be fun to, like, check in on over time.

[A]

Yeah, I'm excited to see how that. I think that's going to pop off. I'll show you some other stuff, but, yeah, I think that's gonna. That's gonna take off. The biggest win of that is if they're able to get Ryan Reynolds to go on, you know.

[B]

Yeah, definitely go do it.

[A]

But supposedly he's a huge fan of. Of it. I didn't know that. So they have a partnership, or they had a partnership with the UFC and that, like, Dana White's a huge fan, and he went and did, like, a cleanup with them, and. But he was so busy. It was like, hey, I need you to, like, dock the boat here. I have an hour to be able to do this. And, like, I. He went and cleaned up everything. Yeah, but, yeah, pretty. Pretty cool.

[B]

But it's on that boss lifestyle.

[A]

Yeah, but going off of Mosey Wash. So this is perfect. The next layer to this, the third pillar component, is you have to have an enemy. We've talked about this. At large, you have a good segment on enemy marketing, but armies don't exist without an enemy. Like, that is the key thing here. An extreme example is. Is Apple versus Mac. But, like, enemies is why rival rivalries exist. You do anything to really beat the enemy. You even look at something like army versus Navy or Ohio. Like, we just saw all of the fights happen, what, two weeks ago in college football. Yeah, but it was like every. You know, I think it was like Miami and Florida, Ohio State and Michigan. Like, there was so many fights happening because of the rivalry. Like, that is the enemy. And without it, without that, like, you don't have this same loyalty because you want to do anything to beat that enemy. And with business products followings, like, it's really no different. Again, looking at examples of this, you have midday squares, and it's like either a. They have basically two enemies, and they work in congruency. Right. They have the big chocolate companies, the Hershey's, the Nestle, like, of the world, but then they also have the chocolate that they make. Like, those are the two enemies. You have Moisy Wash, which is the enemies are big detergent brand ingredients. You have underbrush gum, which is one I texted you about or that you texted me about. Sorry. Where it's 5 gum. It's the ingredients within that gum. You have Humantra that possibly like tackles and says bottled water is the enemy. You have Jocko, where it's not a product, but it is the undisciplined version of yourself is the enemy.

[B]

Yeah, I love that one too, because that makes it so much more personal. You know, a lot of the times what the common thread between all of those enemies is that it was an enemy that directly attacks you, the consumer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the enemy has to be someone that is attacking your, your customer. Because if not, if it's like a shared enemy that doesn't really affect them, then the content's not going to hit the same. This is, you know, something we've done with Kettle and Fire, who's, you know, a bone broth company. They're very oriented around regenerative agriculture and their supply chain is a big thing. And so the enemy that we are starting to go after is mineral deficiency. So our soil has been depleted over the last like 75 years to a point where you're getting virtually no nutrients in any of your produce. It's crazy. And the founder has done a lot of research on this. He's one of the leading voices in the category. And so how are we creating content for them? It's thinking about, you know, you want to reverse engineer it. You want to think about what is going to make someone stop the scroll and think, oh, shit, am I mineral deficient? Am I? And how do you do that? You name some very common symptoms. Fatigue, it's gut health issues, all these kind of trending ailments that seem to be rising. Well, you can make a direct connection to mineral deficiency in your food. You're not getting enough minerals. That's why you need supplements all the time. Well, how is that happening? It's because there's no minerals left in the soil because of modern farming. So now there's this case in the customer's head of, well, we obviously need to fix the farming system. Kettle and Fire is a brand that represents the attempt to do so. They're only sourcing from regenerative agriculture, they're only sourcing from sustainable farming practices. And now all of a sudden they're a brand that represents the solution to this enemy that's been attacking their customer. Love that. And it's a very shareable kind of like scroll stopping thing.

[A]

You know, one thing that I think would absolutely crush for them is very similar to Jolly. Or is it jolly the.

[B]

I think it's jolie.

[A]

Jolie. Okay.

[B]

Because like Angelina Jolie, legend, yes, Underrated legend kind of fell off recently.

[A]

She did, she did the real Jolie. I think there's a play there where they can do a report based on like either a, the groceries you shop, the different areas that you live and kind of pull like how mineral lacking some of those areas are, the places that they shop and then use as a lead magnet.

[B]

They've done an amazing job of that. The company that actually is crushing it at a content level more than Jolie is Filter Baby. So I did a video of them on ig, but if you dig into their content strategy, it's gotta be one of the highest ratios of low cost to views that is out there because all they're doing is shooting on iPhone, slapping some trending audio on it and slapping some text on it and it just goes nuts.

[A]

Filter Baby.

[B]

Yeah, Filter Baby. Like a lot of their videos are basically saying, you know, have you ever looked behind your. Have you ever looked at what's actually coming out of your faucet? They unscrew the faucet and then they pull it out and they're like, look at this thing. It's the dirtiest thing ever. So obviously they prescribe a solution to that problem, but none of their videos are lengthy. They understand that people are subtly aware of this issue and they pitch the solution about 30 seconds later. So connecting it to what you're talking about, the mission and the values, Filter Baby is trying to provide clean water for all that orients their entire content pillars and strategies and it makes it easy for them. Now we just have to come up with good formats and mass produce. So once you have that initial mission and strategy, it makes a lot easier.

[A]

And this is exactly stemming off of what you just said. The more your enemy prevents your mission from becoming a reality, the more people, people will buy into that mission. Right. So the more you can educate people through the content, the better. So talking about Filter Baby, they do a great job of educating you about what the enemy is and then being able to in a indirectly like share what their mission is with their product and offer the solution.

[B]

I mean, the, the next thing that's going to get a cult following is this High Rocks shit. It's going to be crazy. If I was someone who wanted to build in the health and fitness space and I was looking anywhere towards apparel, I would immediately lock in on High.

[A]

Rocks, which is why represents taking off, really. They locked in on it a year and a half ago, two years ago, and they, they sponsored this guy, Hunter McIntyre McIntosh or, I don't know, something damn represents.

[B]

Got to bag up Choi. They got to start throwing it.

[A]

Is he going to, like, go into it like that?

[B]

I. I think if he, I mean, he obviously just went through the getting canceled thing, which was complete bullshit, but I think if, if he pivoted into that, it'd be goaded. I think he could like, really, really crush it. And, you know, if you're an influencer and you're in a crowded market, like running. He's one of the bigger running influencers. But whereas a complete greener pasture, blue ocean, it's like, dude, Hyrox, if that 10x's over the next five years and you're the biggest Hyrox guy. You're. You're a legend. I mean, he could be like the Matt Frazier of Hyrox, you know, which no one's going to get that reference, but that's like the goat of CrossFit, I think.

[A]

I mean, he's 2 million followers.

[B]

Yeah, he's huge. And he's also a popular YouTuber. And it's like, you know, how does Matt go from like 400k to 2 million? It's like, maybe you just dominate, like a really hyper growth niche.

[A]

All right, marketers, we know you love the tldr, so let's get right to the point. Here are five things you can get done faster with wix Studio. Number one, you could scale content with dynamic pages and reusable assets. Then number two, you can integrate with Meta's conversion API, zapier, Google Ads and more in just a few seconds. Then number three, which is a given and this is AB test, where you can create them in days, not weeks with their intuitive design tools. Then number four, you could connect to tracking and analytical tools like SEMrush and GA4 in seconds and manage all of your client social media from one dashboard. All right, if you're ready for more, then go to wix studio.com Again, that's Wix Studio. So if you want to find your enemy, there's really three things that an enemy can be. It could be an action. So there's this company called Nightcap, which they avoid or they try to prevent you from getting your. Your drink spiked. And so drink spiking is the action that is the enemy. The second is a product or an item. For Ocean, the enemy is plastic. Then the third enemy could be is a corporation or business, which in this case we could look at midday squares, it's all the other chocolate companies. And then the fourth is a Version of yourself, right? And this is, you look at Jocko, you look at supplement companies, you look at bpn, any of these companies can make a version of yourself that you are not the enemy that you don't want to become. The fourth pillar and component of building a cult following is characters. If you look at any of the common denominators and cult like brands, it's the implication of characters. Again, starting at a high level and an extreme example. Steve Jobs and Apple, Elon Musk and Tesla. Nike with Michael Jordan. And there's a line from the movie Air. I was actually watching it, put it back on last night where it was like one of the Nike employees, Rob Strasser. Strasser, I don't know how you actually pronounce it. Says a shoe is just a shoe until someone steps into it, right? And all this does is amplify the fact that you need characters. You need somebody that is taking a product is just a product until somebody takes it and makes it something. Till somebody puts a story behind it or makes it something that people want to rally behind or you know, makes you loyal to it. Until that person is behind that product, it is just a product. And this is why characters are important, right? It's the reason we become obsessed with shows and movies. But when it comes to business, we act like we shouldn't introduce characters and we shouldn't introduce these different people. And it's all going to be about the product, that people are going to fall in love with the product and become loyal to the product. And it's not, it's really the opposite. So when you want, when you want to create a content strategy, you have to factor in characters. Those can be founders, the employees, creators, customers, influencers, ambassadors. That could be across the board. And similar to movies and shows, different characters can have different sized roles, but you can introduce as many characters as you want, right? Like, not everybody needs to be the star of the show, but every quarter you could introduce a different character, have like a little segment around a character. And so when you look at different months of the year and different quarters, different quarters within a business year, you could look at it through the lens of like, how do I create seasons and create social shows based on these characters? I'll get into social shows in a bit. But that's then how you can introduce characters. And so characters play a large role. And if we're looking at examples here, Midday Squares, it's the employees, right? All the employees are characters within that brand. You look at Poor Boy Coffee, the Founder is the main character. If you look at gymshark, you now have C Bump. You look at bpn, there's multiple characters, there's Nick Bare, there's Fonz, there's all of their quote unquote hybrid athletes. But then you look at Minted New York, it's the founder. You look at build space, which rip it was. It was all the customers. It was all. It was everybody that was a customer build space. Like, that was their character. If you look at Square, the payment processor, it's the users. They create content around the users. And so you're able to introduce these characters which are key because people fall in love with the characters and then those characters are the people that are pushing product.

[B]

Uh, yeah, I mean, dude, like, ultimately, you know, and there's character development in there too. A big thing people struggle with is keeping attention. It's. It's very hard to get people to not only pay attention to you the first time, but then why do they want to keep tuning in? And if you're showing the progression of someone's character development that works at your brand, oftentimes this could be the social media manager getting promoted. You know, like, you think about, my boss is going to fire me if this doesn't work out.

[A]

The smashed shit.

[B]

Yeah, that there's also. I mean, Duolingo has done this. Like they're, you know, Duolingo's social media manager is now a legitimate influencer of her own. She's built because she's done so well. And that character progression, I think is cool. Like, she'll always be associated with Duolingo. She'll always be respected. Duolingo will always be thought of as like, they were a savvy brand that was able to identify talent and invest in that space. And so her character development really benefits the overall brand. It's the same thing with teams and sports, right? When a player like John Morant, right now, he's going through his kind of revival, right. Like, you'll always associate him with his team right now, the Memphis Grizzlies, during this period, there's all sorts of different cases for it. But I think character development, that progression is a really important reason.

[A]

I think that's. I think that is huge because you don't just put in a star and fall in love with the star star. Any show shows the progression of that character into the star that they then become. Yeah, even like Walter White, right In. In Breaking Bad, he's like, you see him develop into Walter White and then you f. You kind of die with him in some way.

[B]

Yeah, 100%.

[A]

The second to last one is pillars and purpose. So pillars are the content types and formats you repeat on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, depending on, on bandwidth. But they're key to any content strategy. So when looking at the content funnel and there being top of funnel, middle funnel, bottom of funnel content, there has to be pillars for each part of that funnel. And these pillars can change based on again like the seasons, the quarters, the characters. But it's an important aspect to attach a pillar to a purpose. What I mean by that is when I look at my content strategy, I have different pillars and then there's goals attached to each pillar. That is my purpose. So my breakdowns, my how to content, that is for awareness growth and to share expertise. But if I'm creating my vlog content and I don't create a lot of it, but if I create more of it, the goal is affinity. It's not to go viral.

[B]

If it goes viral, do you think you'll create more now that your vlog from yesterday did well?

[A]

But I would. Would you even like say yesterday was a vlog?

[B]

It was really just yesterday was like a mini vlog, it was like a lifestyle. But you, you put, and we'll put it up for, on the screen for everybody. But like you put a trending format spin to a bts.

[A]

I would, I would say a vlog for me would be like, okay guys, this is how we're prepping for 2025. This is our financials for 2020. Like those kinds of things would be a vlog versus yesterday. Like when I look at Poor boy coffee, they have two pillars, they have their vlog and the purpose of their pillar is like awareness and affinity. If I look at their numbers, one, the goal there is transparency, right? And so when you attach a purpose to each pillar, then you understand why you're creating that content and repeating it week over week. You look at midday squares, like their vlog, their business update up updates. The purpose is to be reality tv, the same way that Kim Kardashian or keep Keeping up with the Kardashians build affinity through their reality tv. And so attaching the purpose to the pillars and understanding why you're creating one of these content ideas or formats is key. The last layer of this is turning this into social series. How do we bring this all together? How do you take all of this and put it into something that can scale and that is social series creating multiple different social series. The reason we love TV shows is it creates an expectation, and that expectation then forms a habit. Right. I always know what I'm going to expect from Keeping up with the Kardashians. The new girl Survivor Friends.

[B]

Damn, you're watching some sus tv.

[A]

No, I had to, like, Google, like, biggest TV shows.

[B]

That's. That's cap. I guarantee, if we went to the YouTube TV, you got three recordings keeping up with the Kardashians on. On speed dial.

[A]

No, I'll tell you, I. You. When I was like, a teenager, I liked watching Keep It up with the Kardashians just because it was Kim. Right.

[B]

Like, I was like, naturally. Yeah, right. It is what it is.

[A]

The other one that I loved was Run's House.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

You know, Run DMC is.

[B]

Oh. Oh. I mean, I do. I never, like, was on MTV like that, though.

[A]

So Run's House. Really? So Run's House.

[B]

But you, you were like. You were skateboarding and fishing. You had long hair, bro. You were different. Like, I don't know.

[A]

No, this was high school. And, like, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah. You. You're out here hitting all sorts of very swamp. Yeah, extremely swamp.

[A]

That was the funniest. Like, so many people got a kick out of that comment. No, I had this era where mom, dad, you're going to hear this. I would always go to my grandma's house because she lived three houses down from us. And so when my parents were still at work, I'd always be at my grandma's house. And that is where I'd get all my MTV in, all my bet in, like, religiously. So I'd be watching 106 in park. Like, so I'd come to school and I was goated.

[B]

Era for culture.

[A]

So goated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, what. I forget what the other one was on MTV where they show all the music videos, but it was like, I was so ahead of all that shit on the cultural standpoint, because go to Grammys and just watch all of. All of this Laguna beach, all this shit.

[B]

As a side note, I've been resisting doing a skims content breakdown for the last two weeks. But they have the best social team in the game. It's not even close. And I just can't. I can't.

[A]

The whole thing with social shows is that it forms these habits. I always know what to expect from a Midday Squares or Poor Boy Coffee. And so you want to get to the point where when you do look at a quarter through the set, through the lens of a season, then you create shows for those seasons. And then those shows come back, they leave, they come back and they leave, and you, and you continuously update them. But the reason that this is big for a cult following is because you're forming that habit. People know what to expect from you. And when they see that content, they know what they're going to get out of that content. It's why we love any of these kinds of shows from again, from Survivor to Fear Factor to Keeping up with the Kardashians, whatever it is. Like, we know what to always expect from that. Now when we break it down to even a few other layers, it's like you want to have series or things that you're repeating repeatable formats that you're doing. Top of funnel, middle funnel, bottom of funnel. And it's a great way to then introduce characters into each series and then you have to create filters for each series that align and communicate the mission, your values, all of that. And so when we take all of the things that we just talked about, about having an enemy and about mission and your values and your narrative building, it really gets amplified then by the social shows that you create and thinking about your, your account as, hey, this is my TV channel and I have endless opportunities to create as many shows as I want.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then putting it all together like that.

[B]

The goal of any piece of social content should be to foreshadow the payoff at the end of that video. When you set that expectation with your hook, it gives someone a reason to stay around. The biggest drop off space for most people in watching content is like 7 to 15 seconds. That's where you're going to lose most of those people. And so by foreshadowing what the video is going to be about, you're able to kind of dangle the carrot as they keep going like, oh, this is going to be the thing that they meant to say. This is going to be the thing that they meant to say. And you kind of like keep them going down like the little rabbit hole. And I think series allow you to do that, you know, series allow you to say, well, you know what you're going to get. And this one is the craziest of them all. All of a sudden you're like, oh, the last one had me really, you know, enthralled, like, now I got to watch this. So it's just like, basically you got to conceptualize these things because content seems daunting initially. It seems like there's so, so much out there and you don't know what to make and as long as you just like get it down to a science of we're going to make series that are simple, repeatable, scalable, every single one needs to set an expectation and have a payoff at the end. And we got to be conscious. Like Mr. Beast had that manifesto about YouTube content. I'll never forget reading that. That was some of the craziest stuff ever read. Because he talked about how he has a different team for the first minute, for minute one through three, for minute four through seven, and minute seven to like 15 or whatever the video ends. And to get that granular with your content is, you know, that's the best in the game. So there's your competition, you know, and he's giving away like what he's doing. Everyone in short form, everyone, every brand trying to grow on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube should be looking at it in the same way. Like you need someone who is really dialed on the hooks. You need someone who's really dialed on the 7 through 12 and then someone who's like 12 through like 18 to like 25, then the rest is probably just like CTA and you got them at that point. Right. But that's the importance of foreshadowing and teasing. A payoff is keeping them around.

[A]

Someone that does a really good job of that is Jenny Hoyos.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that right?

[B]

I think so.

[A]

She foreshadows in all of her hooks. But one of the biggest game changers for me was when I started writing scripts. I actually started writing scripts broken down into five second chunks because I looked at that same stat of at least from my videos. I kept losing people at that 12 second mark. And I knew if a video got past 12 seconds, I knew it would take off. You know, my most recent good content versus bad content running brands has an average watch time of 24, 25 seconds. Like in that range.

[B]

But when, how long was it?

[A]

40 maybe? Yeah, 38.

[B]

See, that's really high. When you actually gave away crazy game on this in an episode where you talked about when you went from 10 to 40k and you broke down your stuff. I've been telling people recently, because I went back and watched that and I was like, if I were to, if someone were to ask me why should I watch Sweat equity is because you were so in the trenches, in the weeds and you literally gave away your entire playbook for free just like straight up like that. Like probably like a 2 to $3,000 worth, of course, in just like one YouTube video. But you talked about percentage of the video viewed and how important it was to chop certain segments, like the five seconds that you're talking about. So if you have an opportunity to go from 55 to 40 seconds by chopping stuff that was just fluff, then you should. 100%. I've used that with my team over and over and over. I'm like, yo, like, why is this video 55 seconds? Every single segment has to stand on its own or it doesn't belong.

[A]

Huge. And the reason I'm looking down at my computer is there is a company that like follows us religiously and dude, they took all of our shit. Like, this is. I'm not saying this properly, but, like, they took all of our shit and have gone stupid on TikTok.

[B]

Who is it?

[A]

It's like Jambies or Jambies. No, not Jambies.

[B]

I had a guy shout out Brady Byram. He hit me the other day just with a Shopify screenshot and he just said, the free game from sweat equity is showing and it's just up into the right.

[A]

It's hockey stick. I love it.

[B]

So I was like, let's forget go, man.

[A]

I. I need to find the account because I actually want to do a segment on it and like, give a breakdown and just give flowers because, dude, like, they're crushing the content.

[B]

That's.

[A]

But sorry, I've. I've been rambling for 40 minutes, so.

[B]

No, I mean, honestly, in the same way that you came relatively ill prepared for maybe a couple episodes recently, I suffered this injury. It's got me on the mend. Both mind, body and spirit are hurting right now. I'm really trying to. I'm trying to figure it out, dude. I took that meeting yesterday with Huge Brand. I wanted you to be there, by the way. Now I took the meeting yesterday in person and he's a British guy and so I was like, damn, he's not coming back to Texas. You know, like, I gotta. I can't like, fade this and try and reschedule the zoom Came out here, took the meeting. I took it in shorts. He was looking at the ankle the whole time, straight up, that thing, Chunky monkey. I mean, Alex said it looks like his water bottle. He's not even lying.

[A]

It looks like this yeti.

[B]

Yeah. And you know, this guy was just like. I could feel it in the. In the eye contact. It would be like, you know, he.

[A]

Goes, I feel the blood, like, kind of pulsing in there.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, bro, stop looking at my ankle, man. Oh, man. And at the end of it, we whiteboarded you can actually see all of our whiteboard stuff behind you on some of that by channel. We were doing some P and L forecasting and stuff. And it's just funny because he was like. At the end of it, he was basically like, send me a proposal. We'll be good. But he mentioned like, oh, this wouldn't have happened. I don't think we could have gone to this level of detail if this had been a zoom meeting. So I really appreciate you making the time. And I was like, damn all the pain. It's worth it.

[A]

It's worth it.

[B]

Yeah. And then I just went home and got spoon fed by my girlfriend for eight hours. I've never been in more feeble state. I'm asking her to get me water. We had to use a makeshift TV tray. I mean, what do you think? What's my Runway to milk this? Because I'm going to be good in three days, but I feel like.

[A]

I don't think you will. You're not gonna be good in three days, bro.

[B]

Not.

[A]

Yeah, you'll walk a little bit better. Okay, I'm gonna give you.

[B]

If I'm hitting peptides.

[A]

Yeah. Not three days, but, like, you did.

[B]

Remind me, do you shoot? Do you. Do you use peptides? You don't, right?

[A]

Are we doing this on the pod? It just got delivered yesterday. I haven't shot yet because I'm scared.

[B]

Of shooting it in my little, you know. Where are you supposed to. In, like, your stomach? Yeah.

[A]

It's a tiny needle. Whereas, like, if you took test, the needle is like this.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that what TRT is? People are shooting needles?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

What you think it was a tablet?

[B]

I don't know, like a spray bottle, injection?

[A]

No, that red antler spray.

[B]

Yeah, that deer antler spray is crazy.

[A]

No, I haven't shot it yet. I'm going to do it on Friday.

[B]

What's the free game on the. On my ankle.

[A]

Oh, okay. Because I had a really bad. My left ankle is. I have multiple stories of just eating randomly. Like, I'm just walking, I step on something minor fall. Eat, eat the ground. Happened in Chinatown in New York.

[B]

How's your ability to catch your fall? Like, are you a good faller, dude?

[A]

Well, it. It depends. Like, with an ankle, you're walking, you're not expecting it, and it just pops and then you kind of like, let go because you don't want to put more pressure on.

[B]

Right. You got to be an athlete and you kind of.

[A]

Yeah, Chinatown. There was no athleticism. So my Ankle pops. We're walking, right? So we're walking. This was like kind of during my travel boy phase. And so I have a camera around my neck. Okay. Swaggy outfit. Just went to Nike hq. Not the hq, but like, Nike, Soho World, Nike or whatever. Bought some new kicks, was looking fly, had this dope fit. I'm walking in Chinatown and, bro, I don't know what. I step on like a little rock and my shit just goes pop, pop. It always does, like, two clicks and second click is bad. And, bro, I just, like, eat the ground and my camera just shatters. Like, lens goes. Camera goes. And I'm waiting for, like, it was a whole thing.

[B]

You know how I made that Judy's Cafe video? Like, I'm waiting for the part of the story where she pops out from her store and just starts chirping you.

[A]

She's like, oh, look at you.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Is that a wrap?

[B]

Yeah. This is officially unhinged. We are going to come out with some announcements pretty soon about our competition for the subs. We really want to get this thing to 10,000 subs and we put it out for free. We want to continue to do that forever. And so growing is really important to us. And so if you are going to help us do that, here's the competition we're thinking about running. So screenshot your review of the podcast on Spotify or Apple, send it to us so that we can verify you did it and then also show you sharing the podcast via DM. Primarily YouTube, but I mean, if it's Spotify or whatever, that's great. And each time that you share the podcast will count as one entry into a raffle. So I have a guy in the Philippines who does custom, like, Travis Scott off white shoe type stuff, and whoever has the most entries is going to get a free custom pair of shoes in their size. And we're going to close that competition. So this is going to run on what, December 6th, 17th. We're closing that competition on January 15th. So whoever has the most submissions by that time sent to us, shoes are yours. So that's a wrap.

[A]

That was impressive. You made that up on the fly.

[B]

100% off the dog.

[A]

It was actually really impressive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Made a whole campaign up on the fly, I guess. That's what we do. That's fucking what we do.

[B]

No, straight up. If you. If you. None of this is rehearsed. This is.

[A]

The last 30 minutes of this pot has been completely unhinged.

[B]

The computers are actually a prop. I want everyone to know that I.

[A]

Don'T do shit on it, but, like, pretend to scroll.

[B]

I have an occasional notes app up right now. I have a notes app that says the new customer avatars. Because while you were talking, I just had a content idea, basically.

[A]

That does happen. We'll be talking. I'm like, ah, idea 100%.

[B]

All right, we'll catch you next week later.