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- [00:00]
A
All right, so I'm hit an angle on world building, how to world build in today's landscape. So one of the things that I'm seeing that's that just, that's another shift that I don't think enough people are talking about is this idea of. And you've probably noticed it because you've been talking about some brands that are, are doing this. I forget what brand it was. It's like an. I don't know if it's an Italian brand.
- [00:20]
B
The French one.
- [00:21]
A
Yeah, French one. Yeah. Where brands are taking, they're taking a route of more higher productions but doing it at scale, right. And when we were building rare air and even what we're adding like layering in with us, it's putting on these larger productions but not coming out with like one or two hero pieces. You're coming out with 20 pieces of content, 25 pieces of content. And you have to shift how you actually do the production so that you can pull out that much content. Right. And so you have to think about telling 15 second stories versus eight, a one minute story with 30, 40, 50 different shots and lighting each thing, lighting each shot perfectly and all of that. And so I'm going to talk about the idea of world building, really get into like the nuts and bolts of it and then even how like we're doing some of these productions, how we're thinking about character building and all of this. And so the reason for this is I. You and I were just talking about, I've three or four weeks of just like absolute chaos in, in great chaos, like chaos I want to be a part of, right? Where a ton of campaigns, a ton of social shoots, but they're all like, it's. I have to build world building decks for each one of these, right? For each one of these like social campaigns. And so I'm going to run through it, I'm going to run through the process how I'm thinking about it, how brands could essentially take this run with it and kind of do their own on a budget or you know, you do also have edit a higher production value.
- [01:51]
B
So definitely give them the scrappy version. I feel like people a lot of the times, world building feels a little bit intimidating for folks and it's like you could do it on a 20k budget, you can do it on a 3k budget. It just depends on like you're kind of talking about the scope and the planning aspect.
- [02:07]
A
What I'm gonna do is I'll start at like what I'm doing with the brands so that I can communicate it better. And then I'll, like, come back to, okay, if you're doing this on a smaller budget, like, here's how. Here's how you can do this. So the first layer to this is you have to have your concept, right? You have to have the central theme for. For all of this, right? What is the central story? What story are the characters going to play into? How do you find a setting that then matches that story? How do you find aesthetics and art direction that bring that concept to life? All of that. And so I typically, with all these campaigns, I have to write it in two sentences. I have to be able to get into a meeting, pitch it in two sentences, and essentially get it to the point where your higher ups or the founders, the CEOs, the marketing directors, whoever you're working with, they nod in the greens, right? Like, they. They have to be able to see the vision within those two sentences. And so your concept, when it comes to, you know, scripting a video, it's almost like your hook, right? Like, this is you have to give clarity, context, and enough curiosity, but you're really, like, leaning onto clarity and context when you're developing the concept. Now, the second piece that I. I've been doing that I haven't really heard anybody talk about is when I'm developing this world and I'm thinking about the campaigns, I've been actually trying to find movies that I imagine. What movie can this campaign be a part of where it's easy to really visualize it? If I talk about, like, you know, if we're putting together a. A campaign around, like, retro sports, we. You might think of, like, Invincible. You know what I mean? The movie with Mark Wahlberg or whatever, like, back in the 80s. Like, you might think anything. Yeah, you might think, like. Like that. And then if you're thinking of, like, a more comical theme, but still retro, then it's like, yeah, okay, Longest Yard. Because then you could look at all the layers within that movie and see how you can leverage that. And so where I think about that is I start taking sound effects. I start taking what music are they playing, how, how are they dressed, how are they acting? And it really helps give you a good base for actual world building and developing your. Your whole set and scene for. For this world and for a campaign. And, like, this is something that any brain on any budget can do, right? If I have a sci fi idea, it's like, okay, do I look at, like, Alien versus Predator? Do I look at, like, what movies Am I looking at that? Kind of fall into that sci Fi theme and then go like, legitimately, I'm giving you homework to go watch the movie and write sights, sounds, settings, locations, colors, all of those elements, because it's going to give you the best base of, oh, here's how I'm going to package this all together. And so looking at the movie, finding the movie that you can plug this campaign into is key. And then, and then you even go a step further at looking at reference shots, looking at some of the behind the scenes of how it's filmed, and then looking at posters, like posters for the movies will do. Like, if you're talking sci Fi and you look at Alien vs. Predator posters, it's very like dark blues, cool colors, cool tones, or you're looking at these, these different colors and tones. And so it could really help you conceptualize the world. And then in a pitch too, it's really easy to say, like, imagine if this campaign took place in Alien vs. Predator or it took place in the longest yard. It helps that we talk about this in scripting. Right? Like that familiarity where if you can leverage that within in your hook, it makes it so much easier for people to understand.
- [05:45]
B
It makes sense because it's two things. People are pattern matching as soon as they want to see a piece of content. And so if you can help them recall, it's almost like they see the familiar thing. And so psychologically they are like, oh, I know this. But then you make their brain reach a little bit to be like, where did I see that from? Yeah, you know, like, is that the longest yard? Like, is that like a joke about the longest. And it's like, it's, it's a way to kind of like brain hack them a little bit. Yeah. Versus if you don't have a reference and you're going straight off rip, then I do think you're leaving some attention on the table because people like that irony, you know, they, they like the, oh, haha. Like I've seen this movie before. Yeah, they're doing, they're doing this. Like one of the best ways to stress test an idea is always like, you know, ask someone completely out of our world, like, what do you think of this? You know, how would you describe this? Right? Someone would look at our podcast and be like, they talk about marketing. You know, I don't think they would say, they talk about brand, social content, pillars or buzzwords, keywords that we talk about. And they, they wouldn't be like, hey, talk about world building. Yeah, they Would say they just talk about marketing. And so it's like similarly like, oh, they made like a Harry Potter joke. Or like, you know, it's like a Harry Potter themed one. Or like you're saying Alien versus Predator and it's like, how would a normal person speak on this? How would a normal person summarize this to their friend? 100%. This brand did like an Alien vers. Predator thing or is like this brand used a western motif to signify it's a no. Dude. They will just say something really basic.
- [07:21]
A
Couldn't agree more. Once you get that and like you kind of determine literally the world direction and how and what you're matching it to, you start looking at location and world building and how you're going to leverage your location to start building the world, right? So are you shooting in the salt flats of Utah? Are you shooting in. If it's like retro, you know, are you shooting or are you shooting in France? Are you shooting in the. In like nice. Like, are you. Where are you being able to shoot? You have to pick that location to really set the tone of. Okay, I have here now how do I start layering in everything around here with my art direction, my product, art direction, the characters. Because your location could determine your character's so like completely different, right? Like, it could be so different based on. On the location. If it's like a mansion in Beverly Hills versus a just a suburban home in, in California, right? Like, those call for two very different looks and, and feels and, and, and vibes. So location's huge. And like, I spent a lot of time finding the perfect location and even trying to find shots to see, like, can this happen in this. This location the next. And I promise you, I'm gonna get on. On Charles's ass. We're gonna put pictures we have to put especially for this one. Like, we have to put.
- [08:41]
B
We're just gonna make y' all raw dog and visualize the whole.
- [08:43]
A
It's crazy. It's crazy. The next thing that people bang on.
- [08:47]
B
Your door long enough, eventually you'll. You'll let em in, you know, it's like, for sure. Yeah, we. We've been slacking on the pictures for sure.
- [08:55]
A
Yeah, I just gotta, I gotta start linking people to it or sorry, Lincoln Charles to it. So the next is I take the location and I do locations plus character looks. So I try to find imagery with a similar location where like, hey, can I pull off this image in that location again? So if it's the salt flats, even if one thing I'll stress too is if you are picking a location, try to find that location in with lighting or work with someone to try to manipulate it to see if it's doable. So when I was pitching, I was going between a few locations and I was using salt flats. I wasn't just putting a random picture of the salt flats here. I found a picture of the salt flats, like at the end of a blue hour when it was like, it's like this dark, royal, ish blue. Almost like before night, like right before nighttime, where like these jeeps and like Land Rovers, Land Cruisers, whatever, are driving at night, where it feels like this undisclosed area. Right. I found another one where it's lit up in a way where it feels futuristic. Another one at blue hour where, like, you can see that it. It feels kind of alien, like. And so you want to find the right imagery because world building is all about perception, and you influence that perception with the visuals you show. So when you find these reference images, either A, you have to find them or B, you have to make them. Right. Like, there's enough AI tools now where I can put the salt flats at night. You know, I could prompt it.
- [10:22]
B
Right.
- [10:22]
A
To find the exact imagery. If I'm not going to get on here and talk about AI, but I might later. You might. Yeah. And. And, yeah, but you're going to use some choice words, probably.
- [10:33]
B
Well, we'll see.
- [10:34]
A
Depending on how you feel.
- [10:35]
B
Yeah. Spicy.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah. And. But the great thing about AI is that you can use it to create amazing reference photos. Like, I will never. Not never right now, I will not use it for actual content, but I will use it to create a storyboard. I don't want to draw. I suck at drawing.
- [10:52]
B
Yeah.
- [10:53]
A
But if I could just give it a prompt and it gives me enough of a shot to look at and show a producer or show a videographer that they could then produce it or show a CEO or marketing director, like, hey, this is what we're going for. And they can now visualize it and conceptualize it in their head. That's a win for me. So I'm looking at those locations and I'm now finding the characters and how those characters look within those locations. So, like, you want that next slide to feel like an extension, but I just placed a person in it and I'm trying to match motions in essentially, like, lookbook. Like, what if this place had a magazine around this product, what would it look like? If I'm going through the pages and so I look at it like that, all of these images, and I should have shared this with you. All of these images feel like they could be the same campaign, but they're all different brands. From, like, a Solomon to a Nike to whoever. Like, they're all different brands, but the characters from this perception, again, feel like they're part of the same campaign. The next thing is you want to describe this to a T is should this feel beautiful? Should this feel relaxing? Should this feel something that's scary or enlightening? You want to really figure out, like, that emotion that you're trying to tell through the visuals. Right. And then sometimes it's a combination of things. I legally can't exactly talk about what it is here, but it's a mix where I'm going for a mix of two emotions. Right. Where it helps. Take that. That character, which I'll get into in a second, and position them not as, like, an influencer or not as an athlete, but positioning them as like a peer. Yeah. A specific kind of subject and character within this. So characters and looks huge. I like to go first looking for wide angle shots, and I'll start with wide angle shots, and then I'll move towards more like portrait shots in action shots. Again, very dependent on the campaign. Another campaign that I'm. I'm looking at like they were taking characters from other campaigns similar to I did here, and matching them to the. To the different locations. But those looks are just so. They were so different. Right. The next thing that I do is I start looking at product focus and direction. Because I want to be able to say, hey, if we're going wide angles and we're looking at locations and character looks here, what happens when we're actually zoning in on the product? This is where art direction is key. Are we going again? Are we going sci fi? Are we going larger than life is? If we're showing product, is it with a human or not human? But is it with a person or is it not? Is it in a lab or is it in a store? Like, you have to think about how you want the product perceived. If we're thinking about Brian, like, jumping, is the jumping in a gym?
- [13:46]
B
Is it my hidden star formation in the jump? Yeah. How. How high are my leg go?
- [13:52]
A
Is it alien? Like, is it monograph? Like, you have to think about all the different ways that it could be perceived. Yeah.
- [14:01]
B
Just dehumanize me.
- [14:03]
A
You have to think about all of that. And so there's actually a campaign of Kobe and Adidas back before, like, Kobe signed with Nike, that it gives you, like, this Larger than life, almost like alien, like, poster that I fell in love with for. For one of the reference shots. But we want to think about the product and the editorial and how it all needs to feel the same again, like, we're. We're world building. Like, we have to figure out how if we're pushing product, even put the parts that push product feel like just an extension or a continuation of that story. The next layer is, then you want to find the characters. You know, if you work with athletes, creators, influencers, you have to find the right ones. You have to make sure that they fit this story or that you can mold them in a way that it fits the story. And are there other characters? Like, this has. One of these campaigns has a completely different character that's honestly, like, leading the entire story. And then the athletes, the creators and whatnot that are coming into it, they're seen in a completely different way. And so I had to write that, like, hey, we're not looking at these individuals, like, this person and this person that everybody knows as them, as we're seeing them as, like, this character in this movie. It just happens to be that individual. And that is. That is key. And so another thing that is, like, I had the design team take imagery from those two athletes and essentially, like, manipulate the images so it matched the colors and the vibes and tones of, like, the location and the reference images and stuff. Because, again, like, you. When you're world building, like, you have to be able to see all elements of it. You. I can't use a regular photo of, like, you and just plug it in and be like, okay, imagine if this was, like, dark or very bright or like, Brian's chilling in France. Like, I have to be able to visually show you that. And so with characters, you know who actually does a really good job of this is, like, Emma Chamberlain. Like, she does a really good job of playing a scientist, then playing and, like, in playing into, like, these different characters when they're doing new drops and they do a phenomenal job of it, like, of their world building. There was one I watched recently where, like, she was in the lab. Like, they're doing all these tight shots of, like, her pouring things. It was. It was amazing. Now, where it could get interesting with characters is then you're thinking if. If you have essentially different settings within a location that you're going to use for the shoot that I'm going to do next week, we have multiple settings for the characters. Like, different characters, four different settings, right? And so that can be a Plumber, that could be a, you know, somebody fixing the roof. That could be. And you have to think about that as well. If you go that route, then you have to think about reference images, aesthetics, all of that for each character based on the action that they're going to be doing. Right. Because somebody on a roof versus a plumber, you have to take it back to that world and think about how you're matching all the aesthetics in the shots and the reference shots. And so, like, for somebody on the roof, it could be. And like, you have to get like the. The a nighttime look that's hard to do. Right. Like. And so it really, like, all I'm saying is, like, this really comes down to putting together a puzzle.
- [17:26]
B
Yeah.
- [17:27]
A
That you have to formulate when you're. When you're world building and you're thinking about these characters and how you put them in these settings properly and how they're all cohesively working together in the story. So that's. That's the other part. Like, there's multiple characters and they're all. And they're doing different things. And you have to start looking for reference images for those individuals. And then think about how I can shoot the person on the roof the same or in a different way as the plumber, but it's still telling the same story. So that may be. Hey, we're shooting both at Blue Hour, right. We're going to use these kind of strobe lights. We're going to use this kind of camera with these ISO settings, like all of these different layers so that it feels the same. The next layer then we have is now what stories are being told, Right. The. One of the campaigns that we're working on, social campaigns we're working on, is like, there's two stories. Like, it's going to happen in one setting, and then it's going to move over to a different setting that. But it's like an extension of the story. It's like, hey, we can only get here by being here. Right. And with the. The other campus shooting next week, it's like, it starts in this setting. And once we get here, we're now telling this larger narrative by the thing, the different things that the characters are doing to tell this overarching story. And so the storytelling is huge. And now what's interesting is if it's for a product launch, you may have different stories that you tell for teasing and hyping. And then as you get into a different location, it's like, okay, pushing and pulling. That's A different story. Yeah, or that's a different setting because now we're telling a completely different story that has to tug on emotions versus like, like anticipation over here. Right. And so the, the last part that I like to do, and this is maybe this is like extra on, on my end, but is I've been pulling sound effects because at the end I want to just have a good amount of sound effects in songs that I'm like, if I play the sound effects, you could visualize almost if you closed your eyes, like you could visualize it getting filmed and you could kind of look at a reference shot and like imagine it. So if it's running or if it's. Yeah, like, let's say it's. It's trail running, for example, and we're around the salt flats. It's like you could hear.
- [19:47]
B
You hear the step.
- [19:48]
A
Yeah, you could hear the step, but like you could hear some gravel crunching or like, you know, like, like some salt crunching displays.
- [19:53]
B
Like sand kicking.
- [19:54]
A
Yeah. And if we want to tell the story of like wind. Yes, if you want to tell the story of like the runner who's like in the wilderness running by himself 5:00am it's like, do you hear an animal in the background? Do you hear just like the wind and like the, the like they're running. So you want to be able to hear it so that you could look at a reference shot and literally see if you're a very visual person. Like you can see it in your, in your head that, okay, this is that. That story we're trying to tell. And so, so there's a lot of layers to world building. You eventually have to then put this in the deck and be able to walk somebody through it. The key to that then is the execution. You have to have the right team, you have to have the right lighting, you have to have the right reference shots, shot lists in team to be able to execute this. Because obviously it's easy putting these things on paper, but then going down and actually executing this and being able to nail this down to a table, that's where the work really begins. The last thing I'll say about this is I think the next thing that you're going to start seeing from Brands is they're going to world build like, like I just described. And then they're going to essentially tell a large story on their feed where in the past, you know, you'd, you'd post a few things and it would get interrupted by two posts and then you post something else. I think you're going to start seeing it as like 15 posts or 18 posts or 21 posts or whatever it is where the first post is the beginning of the story and nothing's going to interrupt it until the end. And so you should be able to watch from the first story to the last or sorry, the first post to the last post and it tells this long continuous story for 12, 15, 18. And then you look at the grid and the grid is going to be literally that, that world that you built in the deck is going to live, exist right there. So yeah, I think it's, it's super interesting. I'm gonna make, you know, like the video that I made, I don't know, last week or maybe it was early, earlier this week. I'm going to make a lot of videos like that for these campaigns where I think it's going to be super interesting. And I talked to the brands about like I'm, I could talk about it after, you know, they go live to break it down, but I think it's going to be super interesting. I also think it's going to be some like forward thinking within the space that not many people are doing. Obviously some of the brands we talk about on the POD are doing. But yeah man, I'm excited for it. This, it's cool man. I love adding like the art direction. That's not something we've talked about enough on here. Especially with like the brands we talk about where art direction, creative direction, like it plays such a valuable piece in ideation.
- [22:38]
B
I think it's all part of a broader trend of performance versus brands and how they've become one because of all the tools shifting towards AI. You know, it used to be that it was a great media buyer, someone that was buying your paid ads right for a brand was like extremely critical in the growth marketing function. And more and more that's becoming, you know, a person that has good taste and can curate a world or whatever it is that you want your brand to be presented as. And that person is your differentiator. Rather than media buying, you guys, Media buying has become so commoditized. Everyone's trying to get the same ad inventory on meta, Google, whatever experimental channels, TikTok Shop, you name it. And so it's like finding those, you know, instead of focusing on crunching numbers. Now it's like art direction is having a renaissance. You know, a lot of this stuff is kind of coming back when. Whereas I think maybe the few years before the pandemic and particularly the 22 ish years after it was like, dude, if you just, you know, put some good ads into meta, like, you should be good, right? And you have a good product. But, you know, and, and this also applies to supplements, this applies to cpg, like all this world building stuff. It's like, where do you want your people to live? You know, like you, you talked about vacation sunscreen long time ago. And their product expansion has all kind of been. It's like resort wear but for, you know, topicals. Right. It almost feels like they should have an apparel brand on dick, you know, that doesn't. Yeah. So I think it's crucial for people to, you know, focus on this stuff. And the playbook is very like. I think one thing that doesn't get talked about enough is how much taste does play a role in this, which is why it's hard to do. You know, we, we get a lot of submissions from a guy who'll be like, or not, not a, a unique guy. But, you know, we get a lot of submissions from people who, they'll send a video and I'll be like, I don't want to do it to you, bro. Like, I don't want to tell you why this is whack.
- [24:47]
A
Because it's, you should know.
- [24:48]
B
You know, it's like the, the, the frames you're choosing are showing me a critical failure in your decision.
- [24:54]
A
The frames, the fonts, the, the, the, like you just. The effects.
- [24:58]
B
You don't see the vision that people, or you're not creating a vision that people want to be a part of. But what you just talked about is like an example of how deep it goes. Right? You're, you're pulling out Kobe Adidas commercials as a reference point to get an idea for what you want people to feel like. If you don't go through those exercises, chances are if you're just going off rip, your idea wouldn't be as good. Right. Maybe, maybe our ideas wouldn't be bad if we didn't use those reference points. And I think one of the reasons a marketer becomes good is because they have so many reference points already built in.
- [25:30]
A
Yeah.
- [25:30]
B
You know, if you have good taste, it means you've been exposed to a million good things already. Now you kind of know what good looks like. Yeah, it's like steak, right? Have a great steak. You don't know what a shitty steak tastes like.
- [25:41]
A
All right?
- [25:41]
B
Did I say that right? If you have, if you've had great steak, then, you know, bad steak, you know, a bad one. But if you haven't, then you think, like, you know, cooking that thing on medium, getting a sirloin from Walmart was gonna hit.
- [25:55]
A
You know, this happened to me. This is actually a funny. I'll take a funny short story where this is. Before I moved to. Before I moved to Texas and I. And I lived in South Florida, there was a place called Rib City Strip Club. It sounds like strip club, doesn't it? Yeah, no, it's legit. Like, rib place.
- [26:12]
B
I mean, don't hate on the food.
- [26:13]
A
And so establishments and not that I've ever been, but now that I know, like, it's. It's like a Waffle House for, like, ribs is what it feels like. So before moving, Rib City. Rib City?
- [26:24]
B
I thought you said Rip City.
- [26:25]
A
No, no, no, no.
- [26:26]
B
Like Portland Trail.
- [26:26]
A
No, rib. Rib.
- [26:28]
B
Okay.
- [26:28]
A
And.
- [26:29]
B
And dude, bro went to Golden Corral and was like, why isn't this crazy?
- [26:33]
A
So I. I would. We would get the ribs all the time. Like, if we go on vacations, we buy the beach, whatever. Like, if we were having Rib City, it was like you just knew you were about to have the best rack of baby back ribs. And for the longest time, right? For like five years, that was. That was what I thought. And then I go to. I moved to Texas and I start having real ribs, right? Salt lick. Was it Terry Blacks? I mean, even Rudy's or Roadhouse? Texas Roadhouse.
- [27:04]
B
Yeah.
- [27:04]
A
Like, puts out amazingly smoked, amazing, amazing ribs.
- [27:09]
B
Yeah.
- [27:10]
A
And so when you have kind of this. This manufactured story in your head, you forget I was playing up Rib City. Like, it was the best thing in the world, right? But I just had had all of these ribs. Cause I've been in. In Texas for a few years now. I take Vanessa home and we go to Rib City. And I'm telling. I'm like, these are about to be the best ribs you ever had. Like, so much better than all the shit we had back back home. Even though it was good, bro. I take the first bite of Rib City with Vanessa and I was like, oh, no. This is like, this ain't even it. This is not even close.
- [27:48]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:51]
A
It was terrible, bro. I felt so ashamed. I was so proud to bring her here. And then it was like, oh, this. This is not it.
- [27:56]
B
Yeah.
- [27:58]
A
And I remember another time we were at Texas Roadhouse and we were getting ribs, and I was like. And I was talking about Rib City. I go like, these aren't even fall off the bone ribs. And I pick up the ribbon. I swear on everything, all of the meat came right off the bone without me touching It. And that's when I knew, like, oh, I'm. I'm stepping into a Terry territory I know nothing about. It's so different.
- [28:19]
B
Um, yeah. So, I mean, go, you know, before you start putting out, before you start putting out campaigns, make sure your taste is, is right, you know, And I, I still think a great stress test for that is putting it in front of, you know, some random people that aren't necessarily in the entrepreneurial startup, you know, world that aren't as familiar with it and just get that gut reaction. What do they think it is? What do they think it represents? You know, maybe two, three questions. But yeah, I think world building is, it's critical, you know, and it's such a differentiator. Like, I, I, we see. I was talking to my team. There's this German brand. I'm. I'm really curious. They're. They're kind of like, it's, it's hard to even distinguish them from do shoots. You know, they have a really big following. It's like 700,000 followers called Vicinity. And they. I'm over here trying to be like, I came across y' all, and I think your stuff is cool, but I actually just have no idea how you got big, cuz I don't see anything genius. Like, I'm struggling to find the angle with them. And I think they do some, they do like, all the good blocking and tackling, but they don't go. The next layer with, like, Deschutes is known for being hilarious. Yeah, they, they are known for, like, their content team being funny. And these guys kind of like, they just do more cool brand stuff. I think Joel de Monstro is known for, like, is very distinct, like, European summer style. Right? Like European aristocrat style. Like, that's what it's trying to make you feel like, which I guess I just outed myself for wanting to be a European aristocrat. Might have to scrub that from the Internet, but. And I don't know what Vicinity's, you know, I don't know what they're trying to make feel. And it's really noticeable to us, I think, because we're like, where's the storytelling? Who's it for? Right? Those are the questions we're asking. Whereas, you know, I think normies probably. No, God, normies. But see, there's your bad word. Yeah, he's dropping normies today. The average person is seeing that and thinking, this is cool. Oh, these j. These jeans are baggy. That's cool. That's in style right now. And so they're able to ride those trends, you know, and so that's my nude Nude project. Great example, David. Not to talk about them again. We know in the comments people are like, stop freaking talking.
- [30:43]
A
It's been a minute, though. We haven't talked about them. We almost have to resurface some of the brands that we talked about in the past.
- [30:48]
B
Yeah, yeah. Have y' all forgotten? Yeah, the ones we have for like three months straight. Two J's is really on a tear. No, it's. It's like new project has that cult following because they lean into the things we're talking about. I don't think the city has the cult following because I don't know who the founder is. There's no storytelling, no world building, none of that. They're just hitting trends at the right time with performance marketing. So which one would you bet on to be long term, more successful? Which one would you bet on to have a higher lifetime value per customer? You know, these, these numbers don't necessarily show up in the immediate P and L. And this is such a good litmus test. I'm sure you go through this all the time talking to clients, but it's like, how are you viewing this investment? Right, Well, I need to make it profitable on month two. Yeah, Like, I broke. Go kick rocks, man. Like, that's not it. That is just marketing as a tool itself. Is that the only place where you can do Market Month 2 profitability is meta with, like, the right product mix. Yeah, right. And that's why it's so popular. Or Amazon, you know, or. Or any of these. And there's outliers where things work in month one or two. I've had many of them, but I would say the average is like, month three to four is when you start seeing real results from stuff. Similarly, it's like, okay, you run a great campaign world build. Do whatever you're about to do for your clients. Campaign goes live in July. What? Where, where are you going to see those lagging indicators start to show up in the P and L? It's going to be August, September, because you collected more subscribers, because you have more marketing touch points in July and August, because your ads are now more efficient, because people are more familiar with your brand, they're more likely to purchase multiple items. Your AOV might tick up. They might look forward to your next drop more because they missed out on this one. So you create fomo. Like, those are the downstream impacts of this stuff. It is not, oh, we dropped this campaign and we sold out and we're rich.
- [32:42]
A
Yeah.
- [32:43]
B
And the drop shipping AI gurus will tell you differently, right? They'll tell you like, ah, nah, bro, just throwing some AI ugc, get a supplier off Pietra. Like, you do your thing, man. Like, and like, dude, don't get me wrong. If you want to sell widgets your whole life and then go eventually sell a course about how many widgets are sold, like, that's cool. But you know, this is for real brand building.
- [33:05]
A
Yeah.
- [33:06]
B
And I think, you know that it's, it's worth anyone's time.
- [33:10]
A
Agreed. Agreed. I, I think you're hitting on the head where it's like, these are the people that are invested in building for the next 10 years, next 20 years. Like, they care about the brand that they're building. They can't care about their, their perception. And you know, the, the, the opening line that I think I want to hit YouTube with when I make this video is, you know, when you're world building, you have to build it in a way where the, the person buying can see them as the character that's in that world. Yeah, right. Like when we use a runner, when we use the plumber, when we use like they want us the guy or like the, the blue collar worker. Like, you want to be your customer. To not make a decision based off this is $20 or $15 and I'm saving a buck. You want to see them as like, I, I want to be that individual. Like, I see myself as that individual. And therefore that's why I'm, I'm buying. Like, you're using this as like to create that emotional connection to, to your brand. So. And yeah, and I'm fully aligned on the I. What I do think you get from drop shipping is you do get a, you do gain the skill. And like, I've done drop. I did drop shipping real early on. Like, minor. Nothing crazy. Everyone has done it because it's like, why, why wouldn't you. You develop skills where you're like, oh, I could, I could sell, you know, I could write copy that could get somebody to buy this crazy little thing. And that is an interesting, interesting play. I used to do one where I went to some like, conference. This was. I don't know how. If I, I was in middle school, maybe seventh or eighth grade or like, maybe ninth grade, like in, you know, freshman. In high school, I went to some conference, like Tony Robbins type thing, but for drop shipping and for like building an online business, I remember I built some like guitar blog. Cause there was some way of finding like keywords and what was getting searched and what had opportunities. And I started some like guitar blog and like it and like had affiliate deals on guitars, electric guitars, amps and like guitar picks and like all these small things. And as crazy it is that taught me how to build funnels. You know, 10, 12, 15 years ago, however long a long, long time ago, taught me how to build funnels, taught me how to write copy. It was such an interesting era but there was nothing in that other than I thought I was going to get rich and make a ton of money. It's and I barely made any. Like I made money but like I.
- [35:42]
B
Ain'T making on drop shipping.
- [35:44]
A
You know.
- [35:44]
B
Like I have a lot of drop shipping graveyard products. And you know in retrospect man, I actually really, really, really up. Cause I probably you had the one.
- [35:54]
A
Right that like had all the potential in the world.
- [35:56]
B
I I had a drop shipping store called idealsetup.home and it was I was going to be trapping saunas and cold plunges in 2022.
- [36:05]
A
Oh, you would have made a lick.
- [36:06]
B
I would have hit such a lick. Problem is my broke ass. I was terrified to put 10k into Google Ads. Cause I was like yo, what if this doesn't work? Like and just classic shiny object syndrome. You know I had all these different things. I was early on a trend but I was like consulting at this one company running grind like whatever. I couldn't actually you know, lock in and like go do a programmatic Google Ads thing. Yeah. And man I would have timed the frigging sonic hole punch way perfectly.
- [36:35]
A
Perfectly.
- [36:35]
B
23 would have hit a leg and.
- [36:38]
A
You would have made tens of millions.
- [36:39]
B
Of dollars and I would be selling a course on how to do it.
- [36:42]
A
On how. Yeah. And there. That's how you got to a hundred mil.
- [36:45]
B
Yeah. Well cool. This is a two parter. So why don't we cut it here and we'll, we'll see y' all next week on the follow up.
- [36:55]
A
Peace.