← Sweat Equity
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- [00:00]
A
All right, so I got a prediction for myself and the growth of my profile, this or my. My following this year. My prediction is I'm going to hit 500,000 followers by the end of the year. That means I have to get 393,000 followers by the end of the year. That's my. My hard prediction.
- [00:21]
B
Yeah, you're going to have to really niche. Niche up instead of niche down instead, is what I would say to that. Yeah, once. Once you get into. I mean, I think this is actually a very cool discussion is market size based on what your content's about. And a lot of people ask me this all the time. They're like, how do you even become huge if all you talk about is marketing? And so 500,000 is definitely in the camp where you're pretty big at that point. You have more followers than actors on the White Lotus. Right. So, you know, that's. That's a pretty bold claim.
- [00:59]
A
So the thing that. That makes me think that I can do this is the two months that I've actually posted 20 to 30 pieces of content in that month, those months, I've racked up 30 to 40,000 followers. Because what will happen is I'll have a piece of content that every time that that's happened, I'll have a piece of content that gets 1 to 1.51 that got nearly 2 million views. And so I'll have one pop off. Right. And you naturally just increase the odds of that happening. And then every. And then basically all what I've learned too, that happens is there is like this residual effect of something goes into the algorithm and like the next string of your. Your five posts, even if they weren't, they're not 500, 000 view bangers or like, they don't have the potential to be 500, 000 view bangers. Like, their max is maybe 250, 000. And you recorded it and it's a, like, video that should get 50,000 views. It'll get like 125.
- [01:53]
B
Yeah. Very much a thing.
- [01:54]
A
It's a strange thing. Yeah. And like, it has this spillover effect.
- [01:58]
B
It's always the next day because. Well, I think it's. People are going to your profile all the time from that viral video. So it's naturally going to get like all of these different boosted metrics. But I'm just. 500 is a lot.
- [02:10]
A
It's a big number.
- [02:11]
B
It's a big number.
- [02:12]
A
It's a big number. And the thing that I'm going to Say is I'm not.
- [02:16]
B
Pod will still not have broken 10,000 subs on YouTube.
- [02:19]
A
Yeah. But I'm going to post every single day for the rest of the year.
- [02:24]
B
Nice.
- [02:25]
A
Which is a hard thing to do.
- [02:28]
B
Extremely, very, very hard.
- [02:29]
A
Because when you take into consideration weekends that is where like it's very easy to come off and not post a piece of content. I'm going to post something every single day for the remainder of the year. Are they all going to be green screen videos? No. Right. Like that's where I have to.
- [02:46]
B
You're going to diversify your formats.
- [02:48]
A
Diversify my formats. I'm going to do some more bat shooting. I'm going to have different like content types, formats, more carousels. Start leveraging the design team for more carousels. Because in the past like I was designing all of those. So that's, that's what I'm thinking. I'll start running you through if you want to do this as well. Like start running through my brainstorming process.
- [03:08]
B
Do it for. I think people would love that for this. Cool. We have a lot of people that want to become founder led content creators or just general content creators. So personally I've always found the, the behind the scenes stuff more valuable than anything. So talk through it.
- [03:22]
A
So the first thing I'm thinking about is obviously my top of funnel content. Right now what I have working for me is like good content versus bad con content. This brand's content playbook or content every brand should make. Like those are the three things that are really cracking for me. Anytime I put one of those out, they, they perform well. Now what I want to figure out as well is there's a few other things I want to do something where I can brainstorm a campaign for a brand but I don't want to copy what is it? Blue Studios or whatever. Like the girl who does.
- [03:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [03:59]
A
If I was creating a campaign for this, this is how I do it. I want to find my own angle for that. I, I see that as growth content. And, and to give context of what that is, I think of growth content as content that has the highest profile visit to conversion rate. Right. Or view to follower rate. When I look at my why your brands need to launch a social show. My good content versus bad content running brands that got me 10 to 15,000 followers. Right. Those, those two videos I had a piece of content that was, it was breaking down Jamar Chase and 7 11. Do you remember like the always open thing that they did like a year and a half ago? I Had a video breaking that down. It got 800,000 views and it only drove, I think it was like three or four hundred followers. And you and I have talked about this, where there's content that, that performs exceptionally well, right? Like you're. What is it? Wap. That piece of that you did, like covering Drake.
- [04:56]
B
Yeah, like that.
- [04:58]
A
It got eight. Did it get a million?
- [05:01]
B
It's probably coming close to a million, right?
- [05:03]
A
Got close to a million. But it didn't drive as much growth as, like, you doing. Hey, here's how to create this campaign. And it's, you know, it got 50,000 views or 40,000 views or something along those lines. So I want to continue diversifying my series. And then when I do, like my theory content or I do my good content versus bad content, like, how do I make it? I think right now it's at like a six. A six out of seven. Like, sorry, not six out of seven. Six to seven out of ten. When we talk about production and like other things that just elevate a piece of content. Right? In my, in my opinion. And if I could take those things to a 10 and put like one out a week, that is an absolute banger that I know is going viral. Like, that's also what I'm thinking about. Like, I spent a lot of time this weekend thinking about how can I make my best videos much better. Is it post production? Is it getting extremely detailed about, like, the clips that we're going to be using? Like, what, what are those elements? Right? And so that's, that's something I've been thinking about. I also think, actually I know this where if you can do day in the life content that's story driven and people are following along the journey, that performs very, very good. My friends over at Chunky Fit, how were those blue cookie monsters? They were amazing, huh?
- [06:22]
B
Great.
- [06:23]
A
Yeah, Phenomenal. We just had Scott on. He talked to like our cut 30 group yesterday.
- [06:28]
B
Oh, nice.
- [06:29]
A
Yeah. And long story short, they had a few of those, those videos pop off and they drove like 60,000 followers for them, something like that. 50, 60,000 followers. And so if you can get it to crack, there's a. There's a lot of potential there. And I also think that you're inviting somebody into the journey when you do that. Right. And so it's naturally going to have a higher conversion rate or sorry. View to. To follow. Right. That is, that is super interesting. So I'm really thinking. But the hard part about those is one, everybody's doing them. And so you do have to think about like what can you do with a, with a piece of content like that that then makes it top of funnel. Right. Because a lot of times that is bottom of the funnel, that is middle of the funnel content. And something that they did that was pretty interesting and we talked about yesterday was like they do this is day in the life of xyz. Like building the next big cookie business. That just that qualifier right there, like building the next big cookie business is awesome. But then there's the, the part that differentiates them. It's like, you know, it's these two swole dudes. Like building cookies.
- [07:34]
B
Yeah.
- [07:34]
A
Or not building. Baking cookies. Sorry.
- [07:36]
B
It's like a little bit femme but still, still cool.
- [07:39]
A
But there's. Yeah. And, and so they've nailed it with like their, their visual hooks. And so I'm trying to figure that out that out on, on my end as to how I can do that and, and make it and create it in a, in a good way. But I'm gonna double down on top of funnel content and then so you're.
- [07:56]
B
Gonna try and tell a lot more of like your day to day life type content. It's just a different filming style. It's much harder. It's a lot more shot types. It's kind of a different type of creator overall.
- [08:09]
A
The hard part about it is it kind of forces you to always be filming, which is hard for somebody like you or I, that we're so in the weeds of our business where. Yeah, like you know, if we're on meetings 10 hours a day or 8 hours a day. Right. Which sometimes happens. It's hard to be like, let me, let me film this angle for this meeting. And sometimes you have a meeting where.
- [08:31]
B
I think you need a filmer if you really want to do that.
- [08:33]
A
I don't know because I, I also think part of this is speed. Right? Like speed is, is a big deal here. And like let's say I'm shooting with Rudy and Rudy shooting all on a FX6 or like a Sony and everything. It's like that all of a sudden makes what, a video that could go out in 24 hours. Like 96 hours, you know, if not longer. And, and Scott was the same way Scott shot on Sony's his entire life. Right. Like me and Scott know each other from working together in 2016, 2017 to then him transitioning to shooting on his iPhone. He's like, I should film everything. And then I get it. I could be done with the, the video in 20 minutes, 20, 30 minutes. You know, and so speed is another big factor here.
- [09:16]
B
But for me, there's just such a direct correlation between how in my business I am and how much I'm creating when I'm out of my business. Things fall off the rails a lot of the times. And so it's like that, you know, shareholder value meme. It's like content is definitely driving shareholder value and that it attracts the new brands, but it's, it's really difficult to maintain the level of fulfillment. And so what you're describing right now, the day in the life stuff, I mean, dude, I went to Shop Talk and my, my idea was like, I'm gonna try and hit like a vlog of this.
- [09:52]
A
And I didn't see shit.
- [09:53]
B
Huh?
- [09:53]
A
I didn't see shit.
- [09:54]
B
Oh, the editor's got different priorities. I'm still gonna put it out, but brother, it's been, it's been two weeks, three weeks.
- [10:02]
A
Yeah, it's like it's irrelevant at that point. This, this, ha.
- [10:05]
B
Sorry to like, I mean, it's been irrelevant. Like no one even knows what Shop Talk is outside of our industry. So if I, if I frame it correctly, which is like I went to a conference talking about the future of retail, then still could work. But to your point, yeah, I mean, if I was trying to hit the LinkedIn, everyone got the recap post on LinkedIn a week later.
- [10:23]
A
Like, I, I, I screwed up and I did this where I went to the Austin Marathon Expo. I don't know if I talked about this on the pod. I went to the Expo. Charles was there actually, and I basically. You know how, like there's, I don't know if you've ever been to a. You don't run, you don't lift, you don't exercise. You play basketball.
- [10:41]
B
I lift.
- [10:41]
A
Do you play basketball?
- [10:42]
B
I think I'm.
- [10:43]
A
You actually look a little, a little thicker.
- [10:46]
B
I think I'm stronger than you are. Like, in terms of like our builds. Like, I think you, you're like so compressed. So like, those short, quick movements are good for you. But like, if, if you put me in like a competition where length was an added value, there is not a.
- [11:03]
A
Thing in the weight room that you can do better than me.
- [11:05]
B
100 vertical. I jump higher than you.
- [11:08]
A
No, you do not.
- [11:09]
B
100 guaranteed. You have no bounce. You're a grounded individual. I've seen you move.
- [11:15]
A
Pull up the an article that shows I have a 39 inch vertical.
- [11:18]
B
This is high school, but 39, 39 inch vertical anymore?
- [11:22]
A
Not anymore, maybe, but let's say that. Let's say that that's at 34. You do not have a 34 inch vertical.
- [11:28]
B
I have a 36.
- [11:30]
A
Not anymore. Brian, I've seen you jump.
- [11:34]
B
I probably don't have 36 after the ankle injury, but I would say 26.
- [11:39]
A
Is what I'd give you. 26 to 29.
- [11:42]
B
I'm still above 30 is what I'd.
- [11:44]
A
Give you off to. Let's not derail this, but this was a funny segment last time where, like, we were talking about you as a receiver, like, if you played in the NFL.
- [11:52]
B
Totally.
- [11:52]
A
That video popped up when I was watching YouTube videos and I was dying. Like, I actually. I watched the entire segment. But long story short, I went to the.
- [12:00]
B
You're a fullback at this point.
- [12:03]
A
Definitely.
- [12:03]
B
You're not toting the rock anywhere.
- [12:06]
A
I'm a third and one guy now. Yeah, you're like, I'm get you 10. I'm gonna get you 10.
- [12:10]
B
You're pushing. Jalen Hurts is what you're doing. You're the guy that's lined up behind him, just pushing.
- [12:16]
A
That was Saquon Barkley, though.
- [12:17]
B
Yeah.
- [12:18]
A
So long story short, I went to the Austin Expo and I thought of a cool idea where I was like, I'm gonna find the bet because a few things, right. Running. Running's hot. I thought, Austin marathon's obviously going to be hot. You have BPN there. You have, like, a lot of, like, the big kind of big names in running that are there. And so I was going to make a video that was like, this is the best marketing, essentially, at. At the Austin Expo. Filmed a ton of cool. I forgot to edit it in the Austin Marathon happened Sunday. By Tuesday, I was like, it's irrelevant if I make this video.
- [12:52]
B
Yeah.
- [12:52]
A
Like, all the. If I would have made it on. On. If I would have posted it on Sunday when all the emotion was very high for the Austin Marathon, it would have performed significantly better. The fact that I waited till Tuesday and I never posted, but the fact that I would have waited till Tuesday, nobody really would have cared anymore. If I post it now. Nobody would care anymore. And the crazy thing is, like, I had.
- [13:12]
B
Did you film hooks for that? What was your hook strategy for that? I'm so curious because that's why I haven't posted the Shop Talk video. Because the only visual hook that I got was, like, walking into the conference and I didn't hit like a quick, like, come with me. Or like, I just didn't do anything me on camera enough. And so that's really. I walked up on the video, I.
- [13:34]
A
Walked into that selfie holding Zara.
- [13:36]
B
Nice, decent, you know what I mean?
- [13:38]
A
Like solid, beautiful, cute.
- [13:40]
B
Anytime you can pimp out your kid for some views, that's an American pastime. I'm saying just look at Utah. That's what funds their whole state economy, you know what I'm saying? That parent content.
- [13:50]
A
And then I was going to go right into like, I had some heavy hitter clips because a few things, BPN did a whole, like they made a whole gas station in that bitch. I don't know if you saw that.
- [14:01]
B
No, I, I, I don't really respect the sport of running. So whatever they did wasn't cool to me at all.
- [14:09]
A
That's great. They built like a, they built a fuel station and so like they built like a legitimate gas station.
- [14:17]
B
Yeah.
- [14:18]
A
In as like their main popup. Right. And then inside of it was everything that you would have for a gas station. Right. Like they had magazines and posters. All the magazines were like BPN stuff. They had posters that were all BPN stuff. They had. When you, when you bought a shirt, they wrapped the shirt like it was a deli sandwich, like in brown, like brown covering. They had like a, a sandwich poster on the wall. But it was really like all the shirts that you can buy when you went to check out, like their checkout had like, it would be like a zen pack, but the Zen pack was like creatine and like at all these like cool little elements. So a lot of good visual hooks there. And then there was these, I'll show you the clip. There was these headphones that this company had like this like thing of water. Right. Like this little tank of water. And they just had the headphones floating in it to show that it was waterproof.
- [15:09]
B
Yeah.
- [15:10]
A
But it was beautifully lit. Like it would have been a 10 out of 10 visual hook and all of that to say like there's this 24 hour window for a big event even less. Really. Like I shot that Saturday. The marathon ends at whatever time. Like I should have had that bitch out.
- [15:27]
B
Well, so how are you going to do this? Because you said you're going to get to 500k and that's arguably the clickbait title that we're going to use on this episode. So at some point you got to give them the road.
- [15:36]
A
Sorry. So a lot of it is going to be, I don't even know why we went down that rabbit hole. A lot of it's going to be, I'm going to be focused 90% of the time on Top of funnel content.
- [15:48]
B
Yeah.
- [15:48]
A
And growth content.
- [15:49]
B
Yeah.
- [15:49]
A
I'm going to be scaling good content versus bad content. But I'm going to take it from what I again, what I think is six out of seven now or six to seven.
- [15:56]
B
Why do you think it's a six out of seven now? And what's going to change it to better?
- [16:00]
A
That's what I'm still kind of experimenting with. I'm working with our editor on, on some things that I think can make it a lot better. I don't want to give some ideas away because I know some of the people that listen to this pod rip our shit.
- [16:13]
B
That'll be, that'll be published tomorrow.
- [16:16]
A
I know. So like I'm not trying to put those little things out there but I think they'll make a big difference. I am going to take the again very similar the, the content playbooks. Going to try to take those to a 10. I'm going to. All I'll say is like I'm going to make a quote unquote like reaction breakdown video content idea that I'm going to try that. I think the idea is 10 out of 10. I just don't think like I haven't shot it yet but I'm excited to try that. The follow along content. Actually doing those on a weekly basis and trying to get one of those to pop off. And then the last one, I'm actually going to have pretty productions for a legit series that is like a, like a full production. Right. Like we're going to spend probably five to seven grand shooting.
- [17:07]
B
Five to eight episodes of marketing stuff.
- [17:11]
A
Yeah, marketing stuff. And it's all going to be centered around, around content. I think doing those things and scaling them is going to work very well. And then that's five, I think five like main top of funnel pieces right there. Then I'm gonna use the other two as, as testing pieces. Is it 1 shots? Is it 5 shots? Is it 10 shots? Is it different kinds of green screen videos? What like whatever it is. I'm gonna use that other variation of testing. I know that these can work.
- [17:41]
B
Yeah.
- [17:41]
A
I've found them to work for myself, some of them and then I've also found them working for other brands. Caveat. I know like I can spin it in a way that it's going to work for, for myself. It's really going to come down to what you and I talked about on yesterday's or last week's pod where it all comes down to execution and how good we can take a good like A good idea and make it great by all like the minor details that we.
- [18:09]
B
I think the reaction stuff. It's funny you say what you just described because you're looking to take your like production and quality to the next level to still execute within the same market. So which I think is cool. Like you, you want to go dominate the marketing space.
- [18:28]
A
Yeah.
- [18:29]
B
And typically when I would try and structure someone's content strategy, I would say to hit 500k I would expand your TAM, you know. And so that's one route I would have taken which is, well, okay, yeah, you appeal to like marketing specialists right now, but how do you appeal to broader people that are, you know, how do you make the marketing stuff funny to like the CFO or how do you make the marketing stuff, you know, relevant to a mom? Right. And that's how you get into kind of like the repute forge. Like this is color psychology of their favorite brands or like this is like the legacy logos shit.
- [19:03]
A
And I don't think I'm there. I think when like marketing examine is at maybe 10 to 15 million run rate or something like that, like that's where we could expand. I think I could continue doing what I'm doing because what I'm doing right now is funnels the exact people I want to us.
- [19:19]
B
Totally. I don't think you should ever do that in terms of while you're in marketing. I think if you go into CrossFit and athletics, then it would make more sense to do that stuff. But I would never do that if I were you in marketing.
- [19:31]
A
I think I do.
- [19:32]
B
Unless you owned it.
- [19:33]
A
I wouldn't do it like in the next year.
- [19:35]
B
Unless you owned a page like say that was like a theme page almost.
- [19:39]
A
Yeah.
- [19:39]
B
And you just had like this massive asset that you could like throw on the story and get 30,000 views whenever you have like a new cut. 30. Right. Like that would be maybe the value of building the theme page, but otherwise I probably wouldn't like if we ever.
- [19:51]
A
Wanted to go the modern Seth Godin route or the like the new era Gary Vee. I think you go down that route.
- [19:58]
B
Yes. Agree.
- [19:59]
A
What sucks is you're going to lose a significant amount of people that, that gave a shit about your content to begin with when you, when you transition to that. But I also look at like, I'm sure you've seen him viral video club or whatever.
- [20:12]
B
Yeah.
- [20:13]
A
You know, like he got to 600,000.
- [20:15]
B
But that's because everyone wants to be a creator. Way bigger TAM than you though. You, you could Easily do the content that he's doing. He's got the production quality thing you're talking about too, where everything that he does is like very well shot.
- [20:30]
A
It wasn't at first though, but he's.
- [20:32]
B
Like filmmaker vibes now.
- [20:33]
A
Yeah, filmmaker.
- [20:35]
B
He is very good at visuals and visual storytelling. Whereas, you know, we. Time for the greens. Yeah, it's a, it's a huge commitment. I mean that's like your full time job is, you know, production. You're filming every single day, ideating, storyboarding, stuff like that. Doing the art direction for your own stuff. I mean that's, that's a whole new thing.
- [20:53]
A
And the shitty part is I love and enjoy that stuff. Like, I actually get a lot of joy out of doing shot list and I mean cameras and the, the whole nine. And so, you know, I would love to spend a lot more time on that, but marketing exam is not at a point where like I can step out.
- [21:08]
B
Yeah.
- [21:09]
A
And go spend a lot. Like maybe if we had a CEO. Yeah, yeah. Like that could happen. But even then, like, it's. It's true. It's a troubling thought. You and I both talked about this a little bit prior where, you know, when you step out, things fall down.
- [21:25]
B
Absolutely. It is inevitable. And no matter how big you are, that's always actually going to happen. Like, like Frank Slootman, the founder of Snowflake, CEO of Snowflake Multi. Multi billion dollar company. He's like, every CEO's job is to drive forward every single day and if you don't, then you're not going to actually succeed. It's funny you say the marketing stuff though, because for my perspective, I don't really have any aspirations of having like a 500,000 follower marketing audience. Like, I just don't. I kind of would rather like, if I were going to accumulate that many followers, I would probably just go full on, like, yap, like macro applies to everybody. Content.
- [22:09]
A
Like talking about tariffs right now.
- [22:10]
B
Yes. Like, I think I've seen the discourse on Twitter where people are so wrong and they're so like clearly motivated by like, I'm just. I can't. I either have to like get off Twitter or like, you know, stop caring about that stuff because I mean, I'm not gonna top my own horn, but I did get an economics degree, so I kind of know what's going on with a lot of this stuff.
- [22:31]
A
You know that. Yeah, that's new information.
- [22:34]
B
That's what I went to school for. And I had a great GPA in economics. I actually cared about it. It was like the only subject I cared about. And so this whole, you know, the discourse that's been around tariffs and I'm just like, you know, the, the same brand owners we clown sometimes for being software shills are also, you know, shilling something around like their tariff relief program or, you know, like how they're, how they're incorporating that into their checkout flow. And I'm like, bro, you, you're a rapper. The same way people accuse people of being like a chat GPT rapper for an AI product. Like, you're just a rapper for a Chinese factory. Like you. This is so separate from the discussion. And I don't really feel like I can say a lot of the things that I want to say that would be lightning rod topics because I would obviously jeopardize maybe some future relationships. But at the same time, I got to practice what I preach because when clients say that to me, I kind of clap back at them and I'm like, well, if you take that stance, no one's going to remember you anyway because you have to take a stance on things. And what often happens when you take a stance is, is the people who agree with you will low key validate your idea way more than the people that are loudly opposing you. And that's something that I've been seeing a lot. That's, you know, the video you talked about high status, low status brands. Like, more people liked that video saying Hoka is trash than commented that they didn't like that they loved Hoka. You know, like, it was like I was speaking for the common person.
- [23:59]
A
And, and that's why that content format works, right? Like, it's no different than my good content versus bad content.
- [24:06]
B
You take a stance. Yeah, yeah, you take a stance.
- [24:08]
A
Content, for example, be like, this is, this is trash.
- [24:10]
B
Yeah, yeah. And, but so I'm closer to like, you know, it's kind of like how Stephen A. Smith is weighing it. Like he's starting to wade into politics compared to he used to be. Sports only. And I'm not getting into politics or anything like that, but I just almost would rather share my thoughts in an authentic way because I feel like they have merit.
- [24:33]
A
Fourth time you use authentic. Today you're going full marketer.
- [24:36]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But authenticity is full scrub. Authenticity is cheap here. But yeah, like, I would almost rather like turn into like commenting on the things that I'm actually interested in at a broader scale and like having that resonate with people. You see that a lot on Twitter, a lot of people have been able to get their thoughts in front of Elon, for example. And Joe Rogan will cite people that he sees on Twitter when they put your thoughts out there and they're well articulated. And so I zoom out. You and I have a baseline ability where we both understand how to go viral. I know the fundamentals, like the science of it. And so at that point, you're just kind of changing, okay, well, what is the audience? What is the subject matter? You know, if you choose to do marketing well, you're going to only apply to marketing people. But if you choose content that will apply to others, then you probably have the similar ability to get those eyeballs because you understand hooks and how to captivate attention, open the curiosity gap. But, you know, you have a different kind of pivot. So in.
- [25:41]
A
The reason I'm thinking about right now is I just have a goal for marketing examine. And I know if I go to 500,000, I just know how fast we can scale the things that we're doing. Right. Like we have a software that we're working on that should be done in two months. We have playbooks, we have like, there's so many layers to what we're doing that I know that can take us from where we're at now to 20, $30 million run rate. Like, yeah, and I, and I know that sounds. Doesn't sound true, probably from like somebody listening. But like, if you have the right things built on the back end, this could skyrocket your business. Totally, man. That's a, that's a jargon word right there.
- [26:17]
B
You should have just said scale.
- [26:18]
A
I don't know, I just. Skyrocket just came out. I hate the fact that I just.
- [26:22]
B
Yeah, the boys are. The boys are.
- [26:24]
A
Wow.
- [26:25]
B
We're falling victim to some jargon today, but yeah, totally. I mean, I think that's like, you know, another thing about this podcast that's really interesting is people often ask me, what is your podcast about? And I say, well, we kind of comment on like marketing and consumer brands. You know, we're very locked into that space. Talk to our homie Patty Galloway about like, who he looks at working with. And you know, he's like, well, it's gotta be an Automatic, you know, 15 to 20x if you engage with me. Like, that's really the only client we want to partner with where it's clear that you have not only the pedigree, but you have the long term goal aligned with an audience that can absorb that. And marketing, you know, has a big market but it's not as big as business entertainment. You know, like, the reason Morning Brew Daily is so big is because it's just the news, right? And it's like you kind of have to under. Like that's when you're to tie it back to maybe what this video title was. If you are thinking about building a personal brand, you should definitely take either two routes. Go as big as possible, which is news or relationship commentary is often one of them. Right? Like commenting on society, whatever it is that's going as big as possible, or you should niche and try and dominate your niche, which is what you're talking about doing, which is. I think at 500k you are arguably a top 10 marketing personality in the world at that point.
- [27:59]
A
Here's, here's where I disagree with the TAM approach argument though. If you go to LinkedIn and you just type in social media in the search bar and then you search people, 31 million people with that in like their bio. Sure, I. But then you, you can do that across.
- [28:14]
B
They all, they all sent me a connection request yesterday from Pakistan too. I mean, seriously, you know, like.
- [28:21]
A
But I'm saying like that's, that's one skill within marketing. So like then you could do content, you could do.
- [28:27]
B
Totally.
- [28:28]
A
I just put like social media manager here. Right. And so then you could do content, you could do email, you could do sms, you could do landing pages, you could do paid, you could do. And that's where I think, like at that point, again, I don't know what, how big that TAM is, but I actually do think you could probably get to 1.5 mil.
- [28:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, totally, I think.
- [28:50]
A
But if you're, if you have a 1.5 million followers, you are going so.
- [28:55]
B
Basic in your information. There's.
- [28:58]
A
I think, I don't know, because an example, I think you can create a market if I coin some, if I. If I really become like the top person in, in that space. Very similar to Nick Baron, bpm, all of a sudden. Hybrid athlete is a term that was not a term fair three years ago and he expanded.
- [29:19]
B
Are you gonna coin a athlete?
- [29:20]
A
Marketer and marketing athlete.
- [29:23]
B
Oh God.
- [29:23]
A
I'm just kidding. Yeah, but you look at what he did with hybrid athlete. That was not a term, right? And now this TAM has increased where. If you actually go to YouTube and you search hybrid athlete, the amount of videos that are made off of that. If, if I make a video tomorrow, that's like how I'm training as a, how I'm training for the CrossFit Games. It might get 5,000 views.
- [29:45]
B
Yeah.
- [29:46]
A
If I made it. How? How? I'm training as a hybrid athlete. 50,000.
- [29:51]
B
Totally.
- [29:52]
A
And so I do think that there's going to be some roadblocks, but I do think there's a Road to 1.1 to 1.5 million because you can own, you can coin specific terms and that's going to open up a completely new market. Because he's doing it right where he's doing this whole thing with lifting and running. Everybody's been doing that forever. But the way you position yourself opens up that, that market very similar to like, if we look at like Magic Mind. There's never such thing as a productivity shot. They opened up a new market.
- [30:24]
B
It was an espresso.
- [30:26]
A
It was an espresso. It was a Red Bull. It was, you know, I'm saying it was a monster, whatever it was. And they opened up this new market by looking at it and saying, oh, like if we position ourselves this way, like we can start something completely different. Right. And Mushroom Coffee did it. And so I, that's where I think the potential is. And if you do that, you go from like here to here. You know, I think in the last, we've talked about this, like in the last year it's felt like BPN went from, they were always a big company, 30 to 50 mil. Probably great company size. I bet you they're more now in that 75 to 100.
- [31:04]
B
I would say if you have that goal of 500k size, it's going to take like everything rather than being able to like really be in the day to day marketing exam and stuff.
- [31:14]
A
I agree with that. I do think it's going to take a, a lot more time and effort from my side to. I mean obviously. Right. Like there's, there's sometimes I go three weeks without posting. I can't do that at all. Like I think maybe this whole year I've made 40 posts.
- [31:33]
B
Yeah.
- [31:34]
A
You know, and we're on like day like I could probably be, I could probably be at like 175,000 followers already if I would just post it every single day. Like January was a hot month, came out the gate, had some bangers and then slipped up. And that's the hard part with this too is you, if you miss posting one day, you cannot miss the next day. The second, the second you miss that second day, you are torched.
- [32:00]
B
You think the account, the algorithm doesn't favor you.
- [32:03]
A
Not only that, but you start like it's, it feels so much harder to get back.
- [32:06]
B
Yeah, Yeah. I feel that something that happens to me a lot is actually like literally last night, editor sends me the final asset around 5:30 post time. Usually 8:30. Dude, I just let, I let life get in the way. Like I was on a phone call, I ate some dinner and like called my mom. All of a sudden like it's like 8:25 and I see the video and I'm like, Damn, there's like 15% of this needs to be edited, you know, and so had to make those changes. Visual hook wasn't good enough. There was plenty of fluff in the video. And that's something that I feel like I've had a trade off recently where I've just been posting a lot of the time, even though probably cutting the fluff and improving the visual hook would have improved performance quite a bit. And so I actually didn't post it last night because it wasn't ready. And then by the time it was ready it was like 9:45.
- [33:00]
A
I did think it was off that you didn't put. Usually you post Monday through Friday.
- [33:04]
B
I'm Sunday through Thursday, actually.
- [33:06]
A
Sorry.
- [33:07]
B
Either way. No, no, no. I mean, and that's another thing entirely. It's like, why am I not posting on Friday, Saturday? It's just like superstition, borderline. It's like, I don't know why. I just feel like if I threw up like a Friday, 10am no one's trying to see it. Same with Saturday. I don't know why.
- [33:21]
A
So this is where it goes back to what I was talking about. Testing. I think my Friday Saturdays are going to be where I test. I'm not really looking at, I'm looking at specific ideas. Like I could do a one shot and test an idea via the tech, see if it performs decent.
- [33:39]
B
Are you going to try memes at all?
- [33:41]
A
No, never.
- [33:42]
B
Okay.
- [33:43]
A
I'm not that guy.
- [33:44]
B
Like Girl and Girl and Blue Studios or whatever has been really heavy, heavy on the memes recently. I've noticed.
- [33:49]
A
It's just not me.
- [33:50]
B
Right.
- [33:51]
A
Like I think if Trung from. And I've told Trung this a million times. I said you can have 2 million followers on Instagram. Like if you think you're, you're growing fast on Twitter.
- [34:00]
B
Yeah.
- [34:00]
A
Grow to go to Instagram. Post all of your memes. Post all the. That like I've seen people have some of their most viral videos when they steal your stuff and they post your stuff as their content on a, on a, on a theme page. His response was, my wife would kill Me if I was on another platform.
- [34:18]
B
That's funny.
- [34:18]
A
That's literally what he said.
- [34:20]
B
Just because of the time commitment.
- [34:23]
A
Wrong's a monster when it comes to price screen time.
- [34:26]
B
Oh really?
- [34:27]
A
Cuz he knows everything that's going on and he executes so fast.
- [34:31]
B
Yeah.
- [34:32]
A
I mean to the point where like Elon's one of the. His followers. Like Elon follows like a hundred at the time. Like 100, 120.
- [34:39]
B
No, Elon was commenting on like every single one of Trunk's posts.
- [34:42]
A
Oh, they would dm.
- [34:43]
B
Yeah. They're boys.
- [34:45]
A
They were.
- [34:46]
B
Yeah.
- [34:46]
A
And Elon, I think Trung. This is my theory. Trung was one of Elon's like meme guys.
- [34:52]
B
Oh, I.
- [34:53]
A
That's my theory. I don't know if that's. That's true or not. That'd be crazy because I'd seen.
- [35:00]
B
I had never even thought about that. That totally could be a true thing.
- [35:04]
A
Elon has a bunch of like mean people for sure.
- [35:06]
B
Yeah.
- [35:06]
A
And I had seen he posted some in Trunk will hide his. What is it? His watermark on memes where like you can't see it. Where it's literally. It's just an out, like a thin outline in the middle of the photo or like somewhere in the photo. And he would send me. I was like, yo, like, this is crazy. Like Elon's reposting your. Or like you stole your. And he was just like zoom in on something and it's like it says Trunk on it.
- [35:30]
B
Yeah.
- [35:30]
A
And I was like, like I have a feeling.
- [35:33]
B
I could see that that would make a lot of sense because that's why Elon would engage with him because he on respect his abilities as a meme lord.
- [35:39]
A
And then Meme Lord, bro. Meme God.
- [35:41]
B
Like meme God straight up. Go to best. That's interesting. I think you're going to take one route with your stuff. I had a fascinating call today with a couple of like info products guys who. It's just like the devil on your shoulder, you know, they're like, yeah, we could get you to like few hundred thousand a month pretty quickly. Done for you. Revenue split, no upfront cash. We do like 80% of the copywriting. You just kind of have to be you. I was like, fuck, that sounds pretty sick. But you don't. You know. He even acknowledged it. He was like, becoming an info marketer is a choice. It's like definitely a choice.
- [36:22]
A
I battled. Now I think we're going a little off the rails, but I battled with the thought of like, I can make a probably 20 out of 10 course on brand marketing. And so could you probably like we both can and, or sorry. Brand content.
- [36:39]
B
Yeah.
- [36:42]
A
And I'm like, man, like if I wanted to do this content game and like go all in on it and be one of the biggest in the.
- [36:47]
B
World, be way better for you to take info than services 1 million percent. It's much smarter for you to do a funnel of info and service like.
- [36:56]
A
Build once, sell forever and like. Yeah, I'm sure.
- [36:59]
B
Because then you're full time content creator and that's all you have to do is your input.
- [37:02]
A
And I have no overhead.
- [37:03]
B
No. And it's like overhead is the revenue split on your sales team. That's how all these info guys work.
- [37:10]
A
But it's like, do you even. Yeah, but do you even think you need them?
- [37:14]
B
Yes, because I don't want to ever take a call.
- [37:17]
A
Oh, so you're saying you're going like maybe something that's $5,000?
- [37:20]
B
Yes, 100%. You only want to go high ticket.
- [37:23]
A
Yeah. Well, the thing I was thinking about was like five in that ballpark of five grand.
- [37:26]
B
Yeah.
- [37:27]
A
I didn't know if I'd have to take a call or not. I've been, I was thinking like, would I have to take a call?
- [37:30]
B
I think the general is like 2k is like where you have to start taking a call.
- [37:35]
A
Really?
- [37:35]
B
Yeah. I mean people pretty rare when they just like swipe the card on 5K.
- [37:42]
A
Even if it's for brand content, where it could be a complete write off.
- [37:45]
B
Yes. Because most of those people, you got to think about your buyer Persona. Like, is that a marketing team? All right, well, they have to go through procurement, appropriate approval, et cetera. Dies. It dies within that three weeks. They don't, they just end up not getting it. Or if it's, you know, solo brand owner, they want to fucking talk to you. You know, like most of these brand owners that come in that would buy what you're talking about, I think are primarily in like the, you know, 1 to 10 million range where they have a real business that they could invest some cash into it, but they're going to be pretty attentive to the outcome of what they buy. And so which is the classic client that you don't really like where they're like too into it and. Yeah, but he, he thinks I should rip the, the TikTok shop creator offer and just like build, you know, the.
- [38:35]
A
Army there and intro me. I'm, I'm interested because I want to do it for brand content.
- [38:40]
B
He doesn't like the brand content offer. I, I actually had, I've, I, I definitely have thought about an info product on brand content and he, he, he was like, you need to be B2C. If you want to do info, you have to do B2C. Because if you want to do personal brand, you know, like what Godsey's doing with his YouTube, it's better to do free and then ultra high ticket. But then Godsey obviously doesn't touch anything. It's just like people that handle those guys because when you're dealing with like wannabe course bros agency owners, it's a very unique, you know, customer compared to the brand owner is also its own customer. And I think we probably overinflate maybe in our eyes, how many of these like marketing teams would actually buy that product versus like is the magic them just working with us day to day? That was his take as like a guy who's driven $100 million in sales and info. So maybe it's been 20, who knows?
- [39:34]
A
Yeah, I battle with the idea of like, maybe I just go test it, see if there's a way to.
- [39:41]
B
No harm. Yeah, there's no harm, no harm in running a 5k slash through for two brand content playbook. Yeah. I don't know, it just depends. I mean I've been like kind of testing my story click through rate recently. Like really monitoring, like, all right, what am I getting on a story if I, you know, include a link? Like what are people clicking? And I totally think I could drive like a ton of traffic to anything that I wanted to do.
- [40:08]
A
Dude, I think I told you the, the reason my YouTube video popped off. First four. Yeah, first four to five days was at like 200 views. It's at maybe 37 now. 36. 37,000. The thing that changed it was I posted an IG story, screenshotted it and I made sure one comment was in there that was like, this is the best video on YouTube or something like that. Dude, it got over 3,000 link clicks. And so all of a sudden like the video went from a few hundred views to like 3,4000, got into the algorithm and then it took off.
- [40:39]
B
Mm.
- [40:40]
A
And then for cut 30, I'll post cut 30. If it's a screenshot of like a testimonial or something, I'll post it and I'll get 800 to more like 700, 900 link clicks. In that ballpark.
- [40:51]
B
Yeah. Let's say that's an info product.
- [40:55]
A
Yeah.
- [40:55]
B
I mean I've told you this a Million times about cut 30.
- [40:58]
A
What?
- [40:59]
B
No shade to the boys. But, like, you could be you. You do cut 30 for the love of the game and, like, being with those guys.
- [41:04]
A
But. Yeah, but Colin could do it by himself. Oren could do it by himself. I could do it by him.
- [41:08]
B
Like, yeah, I'll make way more money doing it on your own.
- [41:11]
A
Yeah. The good part about it is, like, there's no fruit. We've. There's no friction between us. We all, like, legitimately want to see. And this isn't some, like, on the pod.
- [41:21]
B
Everyone always asks me if I'm pumping your cut 30 backs. They always think I'm, like, recommending it because, like, I got a cut. And I'm like, no, they don't mess with me. Like, no, I'm not.
- [41:30]
A
Brian's just paying me back for this C4 cut that he never gave me is basically what's happening here.
- [41:36]
B
One day I'll slide you. Rent's not due yet.
- [41:38]
A
You know, I think that's a wrap. I don't. I don't know at this point, if we.
- [41:43]
B
Yeah, hopefully I'll enjoy this little personal brand deep dive. It's the most valuable thing you could ever do. So if you're thinking about it, on the fence, could not recommend it more. If you're going to spend your time doing anything, like, go be known online and just watch how it changes your life in a million different ways.
- [41:59]
A
And guys, please, if you're. If you're at this point and you watch this entire podcast episode, please subscribe. We're, like, this close to 10,000 the.
- [42:06]
B
Guys here, but there's a few people that.
- [42:08]
A
That are. Still are. But, like, please, we're like a review. We're like 180 people off leave a.
- [42:14]
B
Review in Apple and Spotify, and that would be also pretty sick.
- [42:17]
A
Yes. If you and I both post a story today saying, hey, we're at 10,000. Like, we're this close to 10,000. We'll go to 10,000. Let's. Let's do that right now. Because we should. We should 100% do that.
- [42:27]
B
Okay.
- [42:27]
A
All right. All right, y'all.
- [42:28]
B
All right, later.