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- [00:00]
A
I think the coolest thing of 2024, like the kind of end of year wrap for the pod was it was cool seeing us in like, top five for a lot of people's pod. Listens, you saw like the Spotify wrapped.
- [00:10]
B
It's crazy.
- [00:10]
A
It was like a significant amount of people that were tagging us and being like, hey, like, this was my top three pod.
- [00:16]
B
No, we're small but mighty. The people that listen. Listen to every episode is my take.
- [00:20]
A
Yeah. I was in an email chain earlier today with somebody that's just like running through cut 30. Um, and like, we sent him a questionnaire. Cause we have this like cut 30 pro where if you're. If you're building a brand or if like, you want extra focus from us, like, we can. We have that tier. We don't really promote it, but we have that tier available. And he filled out the questionnaire and he was like, I'm so ready. And he like sent a screenshot and he's like, ripping Sweat Equity episode in the. In the email. So it's. It's cool to see. It's definitely cool to see.
- [00:48]
B
I actually think if we hit a community event, like, people would low key come for sure. I was thinking about that, like, if we wanted to create a moment with like a marketing madness, like, actually do that and like, have Ben kind of like loop in some of their, like, Mr. Beast friend group guys. Like, I actually think we could like, marketing madness.
- [01:06]
A
You and I talked about this, I don't know, a year and a half, two years ago. I think we should just try to do it this year around, like, for south by Southwest marketing madness. It'd be sick. It's. We got to be on the same team. So you get the dub and then. Or we go like east Vers West. Like, we're kind of like east vers west.
- [01:23]
B
I just feel like, do like a blind draft. Like, everyone has to submit one video of them taking a jumper. Make or miss. It's like, just based on that, I think.
- [01:33]
A
But I do think we should do it and like, one. We have enough connects to actually get some. We could get some dope uniforms made for sure. We would probably get some like. Yeah. Sweat Equity shoes.
- [01:45]
B
Charles and Rudy making everybody a mixtape.
- [01:48]
A
Yeah. We could get some custom canes for the end of it.
- [01:50]
B
I think we could do a whole thing, gentlemen. For sure do that. Get blenders and canes.
- [01:55]
A
That's what I'm saying. Like, I. I think there's. We'd have to start now, realistically, to put this together asap.
- [02:00]
B
We need to start three months ago.
- [02:02]
A
Yeah, we're not going to do that. That's just not our, our personalities. We're not gonna. Yeah, we're not gonna do that. But I think we should put it together. Everybody's gonna be here for south by if there's like this, you know, marketing madness event going on put on by sweat equity. I mean, that's a move. I mean. Yeah, I think we should do it. I think we should do it.
- [02:18]
B
Cool, cool.
- [02:19]
A
So what I got today is I'm.
- [02:21]
B
Going to be talking about that to be the intro.
- [02:22]
A
Yeah.
- [02:23]
B
Oh, all right, let's ride.
- [02:24]
A
All right, cool. So here's what I got on. On the agenda today. So I'm going to be talking about how the landscape for brand social has changed. My idea. And the thing, the core concept that I want to address here is this idea of mood boards or vision boards, whichever you prefer. But this idea that, like, brands have shifted to this idea of like, your brand is a mood board, especially if you want someone to not only adopt it, but like, build affinity around the brand. Then, hey, like, you have to treat it like a mood board. From down from like the carousels and the single images to what you're doing and curating in your stories down to then like the actual reels and the campaign videos, you're. You're creating what you got.
- [03:02]
B
So I'm going to talk about how to build a high status brand. So there's some very, like, technical things that people can do. And a high status brand is a brand that is able to charge more. And I was doing a lot of deep dives with Particle, that tool that is a friend of the pod. And it's just fascinating to see how different higher prices and a higher AOV can make a business. Like, there's two businesses that I looked at, Marine Layer and Aviator Nation. Both California Inspired Apparel and Aviator Nation is three times as big and they sold the same units of product last year. And so Aviator Nation high status Marine Layer, a little more affordable, a little more easy price point for people to enter. Less flashy, less loud, you name it. And which one of them is making gangbuster profit? It's definitely Aviator Nation, you know, rather than Marine Layer. So there's some very, like, distinct technical things brands can do to become high status and be able to charge more. But I'm excited for this mood board thing because so something that, you know, brands as creators is going to be the next, like two years of marketing. And I think, you know, what you're about to talk about is going to be super useful for them.
- [04:10]
A
And I think it plays perfectly into this idea of high status, low status. The better you can curate that mood board on your feed and into your content, the more you're going to be able to charge because the higher status you're going to be able to create through that content. Right? Content is all about creating a perception. And the best content that does that is this. Then you're going to affect everything else downstream, but you are going to be able to then have this high status because you've created this high status through, through the content. So. But the biggest shift that I've seen and the way that I've seen that the landscape for Brand Social has changed is it's changed from a product obsession to a lifestyle obsession. In 2016, when I first started, like in Brand Social and I was a creator for brands here in Austin, everything was product focused. And again, like, this was at that time where like, nobody was really making.
- [04:54]
B
Video content or you threw up a video on ig. It took three hours to upload.
- [04:58]
A
It took three hours to upload. It was like a foreign thing.
- [05:02]
B
Foreign.
- [05:02]
A
And I'll never forget, like, this is how. How new I was to. If you go far back, you'll. You'll find this piece of content. But 2016 was like, when I first, I landed my first client here in Austin, right? This like, coffee bakery shop. And this was at the time where like, hype videos were a thing. Like, that's all people posted. People would post their hype travel videos and like, that's kind of what. What it was again, like that Jay Alvarez, like, Sam Colder era.
- [05:28]
B
Everyone had a mixtape, whether you were athlete or. Yeah, like a travel influencer.
- [05:33]
A
And so, like, it was kind of all I knew, right? And I'm pitching brands on like this new idea. And I'll never forget the first video I made was for this company and they like made these bombass breakfast tacos. And I swear to God, I made the biggest, like, hype video for like a BTS of a breakfast taco.
- [05:50]
B
You just did a chorizo rap song.
- [05:52]
A
It was like, it was extreme. It was like, like beat dropping, like EDM beat drop. And it's like there's nothing more out.
- [05:59]
B
Of touch than a sick beat drop.
- [06:02]
A
And it dropped and it was like the taco was on a plate and it like gets pushed forward. And so. Yeah, but anyways, the obsession back then was, hey, we just have to push our products on here. People are like, they're searching here to see what you offer, and then they're gonna go buy it. That has changed drastically from this product obsession to a lifestyle obsession. We now treat Instagram, and mostly Instagram and Even some of TikTok as in the same. Through the same lens, as like Pinterest. Right. You go onto Pinterest because you want to create this vision board, this mood board, and you want to save all these things that inspire you or, like, have specific aesthetics and looks. And that same thing has now carried over to the content that we consume, and that then we look at as aspirational. Right. And the way I see it is social is the new vision board where we're consistently seeing what inspires us. And the more we engage with it, the more the algorithm then shows us. Right? So what I think brands need to do, they need to take advantage of this idea and create this aspirational mood board through their content to create what, what we call, like, association. Right. But here's where brands really get it wrong. The content needs to be created as this idea of, look, who is my ideal customer profile? What is that dream life that they want to live? And then how do I create that aspirational lifestyle through my content so that the only way that they can attain this lifestyle is by purchasing my product. Right. It now becomes part of the puzzle piece versus its own completely different thing if I am. Hey, like. And we're going to go through brands that do an extremely good job of this. But association is so important. And. And I saw or I read something somewhere where it showed. Like, you know, if I'm taking a picture of my shoe and I'm kind of like high luxury. Right. I could have it where I'm just taking it top down like this, or I can make sure that you see, like, my gold bracelet or a Chrome's heart bracelet.
- [07:55]
B
Yeah.
- [07:55]
A
And all of a sudden, there's that association between chrome hearts and my shoe that you're. Now the perception. Perception is high luxury. If we do a photo shoot and the photo shoot has. Has you, me in it, whatever, and it's with a Bentley, right. Like, there's a completely different.
- [08:13]
B
Rented.
- [08:14]
A
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
- [08:16]
B
We rented that hoe.
- [08:17]
A
But just the idea of, like, it's the association of products with specific objects.
- [08:22]
B
They're almost like Easter eggs.
- [08:24]
A
Yeah.
- [08:24]
B
You know, you're. You're leaving little clues for people to pick up on that. Say, I speak your language. You know, I'm one of you. Because social is a way for you to. Obviously, it started as A way to make connections with people. And so brands lost that focus initially and they would just push their product. Basically be a walking billboard. Instead, what you're describing, you know, if you're creating lifestyle content and there's different visual cues that say, hey, we understand you, like we know what you are looking for, then that's going to build that affinity.
- [08:53]
A
Yeah.
- [08:53]
B
And you're basically helping them curate their own mood board. Because what a lot of people lack understanding of is that the creation versus consumption of 99.9% of people on social is they're just consuming. And so if you're helping their consumption become easier by helping them kind of see a reflection of themselves in your content, then like, that's just going to. Like, your customer acquisition is going to go so much lower because they actually like you rather than just meeting a need. Right?
- [09:26]
A
Yeah.
- [09:27]
B
Yeah.
- [09:27]
A
The thing for brands to understand is, like, if you want to create this association, you need to take your product and you need to integrate your product with a few things. You need to integrate it with either a specific aesthetic, a specific location, specific people, communities and or other products. Brands that do a very good job of this are. So one is Nude Project. We've talked about them a million times. But Nude Project does a very good job of.
- [09:50]
B
Maybe one day he'll. He'll hit us up and be like, I love you guys because we love him.
- [09:56]
A
Damn, bro. That's crazy.
- [09:59]
B
No, that was. That was a little sus. But I'm just saying we keep necking.
- [10:02]
A
Inflammation of the throat.
- [10:03]
B
No, I'm just saying.
- [10:04]
A
Crazy.
- [10:05]
B
I'm just saying we neck. We neck hard.
- [10:07]
A
I'm not necking. I'm just. I'm just like, if they. First off, I'm necking their creative team. I didn't even mention Bruno.
- [10:14]
B
Well, now you did.
- [10:15]
A
Because of you. Because of your comment, their creative team is dialed.
- [10:18]
B
Yeah, super.
- [10:19]
A
Who said it's like Bruno's? You know, I might have.
- [10:23]
B
Maybe I'm out here coming clean.
- [10:25]
A
We'll run it back from the top. Do you need to integrate your product with specific aesthetics, locations, people, communities and other products? A brand doing a great job of this is Nude Project. I'm sure you just saw their whole. I forget the exact name of the collection, but the snow, the collection where they were all in the mountains and whatnot. And so if you look at that, there was like nine kind of posts on their grid for that entire time. And for that they nailed all of the these things. There was a specific aesthetic being in this mountain lodge. It was mountain lodge. It was luxurious. The you had all of the snow, you had the mountains in the background that also plays into the location. Then you had people, you had all of these different influencers coming to be a part of it. From the J. Alvarez to the other people that I think some musicians and whatnot that were a part of it. And then you also had the products that they were integrating with. Represents another brand that does incadence that they do a great job of that associate their products with other high luxury, high status products, right? George will do a shoot with a Bentley or a Range Rover in it, right? Or in a mansion in Malibu because he's associating with this high status. And though therefore because of that curation, because of that art direction, you're able to charge such a higher price point. One of my favorite brands that, that does this and I don't know why people don't talk about it enough from like the content lens is ALD specifically as it loads is like, like if you actually go to their reels, like you go to their reels tab.
- [11:52]
B
Oh, it's amazing.
- [11:53]
A
It literally is like your dream, dream mood board for sure. From even just like the sipping the whiskey with the New Balance collab down to the Porsche collab, right? And then even like the DJs doing their sets or the like the ocean vibes, the mood board is created right there for you where like if I'm just looking at this on Pinterest, I'm like, damn, I want all of this. But now what makes all of these things, this thing that you aspire to have or like this what, like what makes it complete? You take the fits out of this and it like no longer has that same feeling, right? Like the fits are a part of the mood board and they're a part of what you're aspiring to have and part of like the lifestyle that you want. And so again like, what I want to emphasize here is you have to like mimic and create and curate that aspirational lifestyle that a customer wants. And then when you're looking at your content pillars, right, we're looking at the reels, you're making, the content formats, content types, all that, all the ideation has to then run through, run through that filter of. Is this matching the mood board, right? And you're seeing it now, there was, I forget exactly what brand it was, but there's a coffee brand that there's not really one piece of content that like shows the actual product. It doesn't. It literally all is about vibe Curation of everybody outdoors, somebody's playing a ukulele, just chilling and. And it's again, about the experience that you're going to have when you. You get here. And so you could imagine if your goal or one of your things is to be more social and enjoy the outdoors. And then you see this coffee shop that is like just a complete vibe. It naturally attracts you there. Right? It naturally brings you there because it matches what you're. You're aspiring to do. And so it's really about reverse engineering. What is that lifestyle that my ideal customer wants to live? Then how do I create content that bridges the gap and gets them to purchase product? Because that product is the puzzle piece to putting it all together. All right, marketers, we know you love the tldr, so let's get right to the point. Here are five things you can get done faster with wix Studio. Number one, you could scale content with dynamic pages and reusable assets. Then number two, you can integrate with Meta's conversion API, Zapier, Google Ads and more in just a few seconds. Then number three, which is a given, and this is ABC tests, where you can create them in days, not weeks with their intuitive design tools. Then number four, you could connect to tracking and analytical tools like SEMrush and GA4 in seconds and manage all of your client social media from one dashboard. All right, if you're ready for more, then go to wix studio.com again. That's wix studio.com.
- [14:22]
B
Yeah, it's completely nailed it. And when you do that, it guides your content decisions. It almost makes the them. The decisions become easier because now you have something you're going after rather than, oh, you're just starting from scratch. Like, what do I come up with? It's like, we want to curate scenes tied to seasonality.
- [14:43]
A
Yeah.
- [14:43]
B
That makes nude projects life so easy. All they ever have to do is. All right, it's ski season. Let's go drop our winter collection at a chateau. Makes perfect sense. If you don't have a big budget, you don't need to go rent a whole chateau. You know, you just. It might be worth it to go take some of your friends and film some stuff on location in the snow. But you don't have to rent a chateau and bring a big production team. But still, guiding that mood board by seasonality is such a good way to create that connotation with your audience. And connotation is really the name of the game. One thing I was thinking about is when you mentioned tying a feeling to a product. It's like a lot of stuff when you're doing social media marketing in particular is nothing new. It's just a reinvention of something that worked in the past. So take Gatorade, for example, back in the day, those icy blue flavors, the Arctic glacier freeze, whatever. Think about when those would be in some sort of special effects like Blizzard, right? And all you can think about is, like, the refreshing, cool connotation like that. It's bringing that together and creating this expectation from somebody that's going to be refreshing, it's going to be cool on a hot day. So that's how it used to be done through just like a commercial. Right. But now you're curating this mood board or you're creating those connotations. You're just doing it on social. And a lot of brands kind of do this almost like they do some aesthetic product shoots, but I don't think they nail the video component at all. And the video component is also, like, less complicated than you think. Like if you're doing a, you know, a styled shoot, basically like ALD does, right? Where they throw the guy in the warehouse, put a bunch of clothes on him, and then style him for, you know, 10 pictures. It's like, dude, one of the simplest ways to turn that into an actual social asset now is just make it a video. Yeah, throw. Throw a title hook on there and make it a video. Now you've got something that's framed as, you know, pov. It's BTS your first shoot, right? Like, give people kind of some of these, like, little cues to not just expect them to know what you're talking about. When. When I'm auditing a lot of these brands, one of the craziest things to me is, dude, people are still uploading videos without titles on. On there, not understanding that people are not list people are have their sound off, like maybe 60% of the time. Like they're scrolling IG, like more. Yeah, like they're scrolling IG, like just waiting around for something. Like they don't have their sound on in, you know, an elevator or in like a waiting office for a doctor.
- [17:22]
A
Or even in bed. Like, you rarely have your sound on. Like, you. Something has to capture your attention before you turn your sound on.
- [17:28]
B
That's a great point. I think something has to, like, make you turn your sound on. So to the opposite.
- [17:32]
A
I don't know if you saw my tweet last night, but I actually tweeted about this where it was.
- [17:36]
B
I didn't know you tweeted.
- [17:37]
A
So I made it a point where, like, I'm just going to tweet off the dome every day this year.
- [17:42]
B
I love that.
- [17:43]
A
I'm not going to put any, you know, any thought into, like, what I'm not that I'm not going to put thought into what I'm tweeting. I'm just not going to, like, try to put a strategy around it.
- [17:52]
B
Right. You're not, like, going full threads.
- [17:54]
A
Yeah, I. I'd give you the content idea that I'm doing from it, but you'd probably steal it. So we're. We're only.
- [18:00]
B
It only took 15 minutes.
- [18:03]
A
I'm not. So I got on a call with.
- [18:04]
B
Or we had the under. Ladies and gentlemen.
- [18:06]
A
Yeah, we. I. We got on our cut. Dirty call. First thing Oren says, he goes, damn, Brian's just out here ripping your. Huh.
- [18:13]
B
That's crazy.
- [18:14]
A
I go, yeah, Ex. I tried telling you. And then he tried throwing my 3% rule in my face.
- [18:19]
B
It's true.
- [18:20]
A
It's true. Oh, that was a word. A word.
- [18:23]
B
Look, 3%.3%. These are rounding errors. All right? A lot of people make math mistakes. I never claimed out of calculator.
- [18:30]
A
Here we go. Here we go. So what you were saying is about, like, the title hooks and all of that. So I've been going really in depth. I'm prepping for a YouTube video about this. But. So everybody thinks that the verbal hook is, like, the main thing. Like, you have to nail your verbal hook. And I'm not saying don't ignore it. I'm more so saying there's three hooks. Every video has nearly three hooks. Right? There's the verbal hook, what you say. There's the visual hook, which is what you show, and then there's the title hook, which is the text on screen. So when it comes to the verbal hook, there's like three elements to that. There's clarity, context, curiosity. Right? And if. If we look at, like, my good content versus bad content running brands, specifically, the clarity comes from, like, me saying, this is good content versus bad content. The context comes from running brands. And then the curiosity goes like, but these are the best brands doing it, right? You know, like, I'm opening up that. That loop now. The visual hook that I think the. The thing that I've been getting very. It's very easy to say just like, hey, what you show? Okay, what should I show? There's really three things that I think make up a very good visual hook. The first one is either your aesthetic. So, like, the, the theme, the location, the feeling that you're given. Is it the rich, like old, old money, like rich vibe? Is it more kind of vintage and nostalgic? Is it more modern? Whatever that aesthetic is, like, play into that. Then there's the angle. If I have, you know, if I'm doing a green screen or if it is a product shot, instead of going just directly on, I could go overhead, I can go wide view, I could go first person view. Right. And then there is the action. Don't just start in the video. Like, don't just start with you in the video. Walk into frame. Like there's all of these little activity. Yeah, there's like all of these like little things that you can do to make it so much more appealing. And then your title hook. The more I think about this, there's really two ways of, of doing it. Either A, the title hook could be context relevant to what the image is. So like we use Colin, Colin's video as an example where Colin's doing a video and it's like this 250, like diamond building machine or diamond printing machine or something like that.
- [20:31]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:32]
A
And like the hook doesn't say that, but then the, the image is like just this big machine. Yeah. And then the, the title. Yeah, the title hook says $250,000 diamond machine. Right. It's, it's giving you enough context based on the image. But then there's the other variation of a title hook where it's like you take what your actual verbal hook is and you condense it down to like three, four words. Where like, mine would be good content versus bad content, yours would be $30 million content, strategy, whatever it is.
- [21:01]
B
That's like, you know, one thing, we got to set the record. So I was perusing LinkedIn the other day and some, some bro put you next to Gary Vee.
- [21:10]
A
I saw that.
- [21:11]
B
And I wrote for you in the comments.
- [21:14]
A
I saw that.
- [21:14]
B
I said, I said, hey, bro, if you're going to use his face, you better tag him.
- [21:17]
A
Well, he even took the good content versus bad content.
- [21:20]
B
I know I was ride or die, but you know what's crazy is the Internet came through. We had like four sweat equity listeners get in the comments too.
- [21:28]
A
Really?
- [21:28]
B
Yeah. And they were like, yo, this is fucked up. Like, I love sweat equity. That was, that was some real shit. I felt like I was in like a street fight, but on LinkedIn.
- [21:37]
A
Oh, I'm. I'm going to go find this. Yeah, I remember seeing it. I have not spent like any time on LinkedIn. Is it working well for you?
- [21:45]
B
LinkedIn is the shittiest platform in America by far. It is absolute dog shit hot garbage.
- [21:51]
A
I hate it, man.
- [21:53]
B
It's so bad. It's so discouraging because, I mean, we're both in the content creation game. And so don't get me wrong, I see hooks get swiped, people who tweak them 0.3%, 3%, whatever. But, like, when you see what the algorithm on LinkedIn rewards, it is impossible to not get discouraged. Because all of a sudden you just think, I don't want to be here. You know, I don't want to be a part of this.
- [22:22]
A
Yeah. I think what I've been battling with is if I never want to consume content on the platform, why do I want to create for it? That's where I'm at now. Because I'm like, are really the people that I want on this platform?
- [22:33]
B
Yes, unfortunately, yes, dude. Like, a lot of the people that don't. A lot of the people that will understand what we're talking about 18 months from now are on LinkedIn. You know what I mean? Like, the people who get it are on IG, are on TikTok, Twitter. They're trying to stay in the loop. The people with crazy budgets that don't know what we're talking about yet. I mean, dude, I'm going through this with a client right now where, like, they bring on a new head of brand, and I've got buy in from the CEO and the VP of marketing. Huge brand, nine figures. So, like, they delegate the review of our concepts down to this new person. And there's questions about very basic, fundamental content pillars. Like, why is this something we're going after? And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, you're two months late into this engagement.
- [23:15]
A
Yeah.
- [23:15]
B
Like, this is signed off on by your CEO. Like, what are you. What are you asking? Where is this coming from? And that's the LinkedIn audience, you know, like, that's the person on LinkedIn. They're. They're just so behind that. If you can crack it. What we're fucking up though is we're not posting written. The guy who crushes it is Adam Robinson from RB2B.Art retention.com and his storytelling is so cracked.
- [23:39]
A
I feel like.
- [23:40]
B
I read it. I read it. It is good.
- [23:42]
A
It is good. What I think would work well is just taking our scripts and like, like, structuring it.
- [23:47]
B
Well, I've thought about that. Like, having a ghostwriter just, like, rip the script.
- [23:51]
A
Yeah, but, dude, man, Like, I had somebody, I, I still write all of my, I write every single script that I write.
- [23:56]
B
I'll never not write my scripts. Yeah, I want, I want to say that, like on the record, like, I'll never be able to trust someone to write a short form script other than me.
- [24:04]
A
Agreed.
- [24:05]
B
Yeah.
- [24:05]
A
Long form YouTube. I think what I would always do there is like, let me build the outline and the bones for it and then like have somebody fill in the gaps. Because, dude, scripting for like a 10 minute video is crazy, but it's mad work.
- [24:18]
B
That's almost like the equivalent of like saying, hey, chat, GPT, go type this paper for me. Because like when you used to have a word count in high school, college, it's like, it's kind of hard to get there when you've said all you need to say in 300 words and you're supposed to get to a thousand on the paper.
- [24:34]
A
Yeah.
- [24:35]
B
And so you kind of just start introducing fluff, extra sentences, whatever. And I think with YouTube script writing, it's similar in that you have to keep doing those fricking head fakes. But then there's more, but then there's more, but then there's more. But wait, you won't believe this. And I'm starting to see those patterns in these things called video sales letters. Do you have any clients using VSLs?
- [24:54]
A
No, but we use one for cut 30.
- [24:55]
B
Yeah. And so I have a couple of like gray hat, like Internet money clients now who are using like deep VSLs, basically not even tied to the brand. And dude, it's a 15 minute video.
- [25:07]
A
Yeah.
- [25:07]
B
And it just breaks my little crackhead Gen Z millennial brain because I'm like, who's paying attention to this? And it's like, oh, like a boomer got got on this YouTube ad and then like watches this 25 minute video.
- [25:19]
A
So I, we're working like a little bit with Heat Map and to do like some content for like B2B SaaS.
- [25:25]
B
And he, that boy Alan is throwing you back.
- [25:29]
A
I love Alan with him right after this. That's what.
- [25:31]
B
Yeah, he's a go.
- [25:33]
A
Sorry. And I don't want to take up your time on your section, but the last thing I'll say is Dylan, like the founder of Heat Map is writing a book and in it he's talking about all of these different kinds of landing pages, going deep into the specifics. And one of them is about video sales letters. And he literally said the same thing you said. It's like people, people think, you know, like every Video needs to be 30 seconds. He's like a really good sales video. Sales letter is 30 minutes. And I was like, I could not imagine landing on a landing page and just being like, let me watch a 30 minute. But I get it, dude. The Dude's optimized like 4 billion in revenue. Like, he's, he's absolutely dialed. But I'm like, man, that is cool. Crazy.
- [26:12]
B
So did you ever follow this guy, Alex Becker?
- [26:15]
A
Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.
- [26:17]
B
So he was the king of this. In, like 2018, he would hit you with a 45 minute YouTube ad.
- [26:22]
A
Yeah.
- [26:23]
B
And it was just, I mean, that, that, like one of the craziest experiences of my life is watching whatever amount of Joe Rogan clips that I did as a 23 year old that shaped my worldview right now. And then like seeing this dude advertise on all of those. And every single time clicking skip. Because I'm like, dude, I can't believe this is 45 minutes. Three years later, he sells it for like a hundred million dollars.
- [26:50]
A
No way.
- [26:50]
B
He sold his company for nine figures. And all I could think about was, wow, I was so wrong. I cannot believe that it was such a narrative violation to me because I was like, this guy's an idiot. Why is he pumping this like 45 minute ad on YouTube meanwhile, that was printing for him.
- [27:11]
A
So I think this is Dylan. Yeah, it is. This is Dylan's like, person that he looks up to as Alex Becker, I.
- [27:17]
B
Bet, because he built what heat maps trying to do in a modern age. That's what highroads used to be. Anyways. If they're not on Shopify, that means they might actually be richer is what I'm starting to figure out as I go deeper in life.
- [27:29]
A
So hit me with this. High status, low status.
- [27:30]
B
Yeah. So high status brands do things, these few things, right? So number one is they're exclusive. So they're creating products that are for us and not for them. What does this look like is Aviator Nation. They alienate a lot of people with their designs, with their price point and their marketing. Like, they. They don't care about being for everybody. They don't want to appeal to certain folks. They do that with clear messaging in their ads. With clear messaging in their price point. It's $180 hoodie. It reminds me of a story that I was talking to one of the richest guys I know, and he was saying, yeah, I invited this guy on my jet. The guy said, oh, cool. Well, like, he said, I invited a guy on my jet. And I just told him he had to pay for gas. And the guy asked, how much is gas? And he said, you can't afford to be on my jet. That's exactly how I feel with Aviator Nation, where they're like, it's $180 hoodie. You're like, $180. And they're like, oh no, you can't afford it. Like, they don't, they don't want anyone that box at price at all. Basically. They just want people who are buying for status for sure. So, you know, exclusivity can be built through that. It can also be built through, you know, clear messaging around us versus them. Stuff like that. Doesn't matter. One thing about price. Price often conveys connotation with quality. So if something is more expensive, you would naturally assume that it was made better and it's going to last you longer. So. So that does make you a little more vulnerable to questions like you're going to have to do some value engineering with your customer to justify why you're charging that much. So who does that better than anybody? It's this guy that I just found like in the last week. His name is Yatai. So he is able to justify price points like nobody's business because he charges like $300 for like his custom sweaters. And they're really eye catching and clearly fashionable. But that's still a high price point for a guy that's not Amel or Kith or whatever. And how is he doing? It's through content. He's saying, you know, I started out making this sweater and then I, I made a mistake. And he then walks you through like, I was searching for the best fabric. I made 16 different pieces. He's basically walking you through these different steps of failure to show how much he invested in the creation of that piece and how many clear places of effort there are where he's like, I was trying to make the best sweater possible. So at that point you're like, oh, well, I get it. I get why this is priced high. And it's similar to what we talked about with underbrush gum back in the day, where he's saying traditional gum is cheap because it's made of nonsense. My gum includes tree SAP, which is one of the most expensive ingredients in the world. Basically, you can justify your price through content, and that's something that more entrepreneurs need to do, and that turns you into a high status brand because all of a sudden you're being transparent. People love to see what goes into the making of something. And they also, if you're going to charge a lot, at least say, why don't just be like, it's $500 and you can like it or not.
- [30:34]
A
This is something I was talking to the team over at Tier 4 because they came out with a carbon shoe, like a carbon fiber training shoe. And, and so in CrossFit, most of the price points for shoes are like 140, $150. They're not in that $200 range. Right. That you either Nike dunks could be at or Jordans or like the typical shoes. Right?
- [30:54]
B
Yeah.
- [30:54]
A
And I was like, okay, so like if, if, if you're trying to take this up market and you are trying to charge 230 because it has technology in it where like it literally increases your power production.
- [31:06]
B
Yeah.
- [31:07]
A
And I was like, you wouldn't have to show the science behind it. It's the only way that you're going to be able to justify this price is through going and showing. Hey, you guys are at the LSU lab because they went to the LSU lab and you guys are going to literally do specific tests. You're going to, you're going to go and find all of this data that then you can talk about. Like you need to be putting out that content. Both one in an advertorial or sorry, a listicle, where it's like five reasons why your performance is going to, you know, get better from xyz, Right?
- [31:34]
B
Yeah.
- [31:35]
A
In email and then specifically in content. You need to. It's not about just pushing the product. You need to be building a funnel around this product, around all the education points and it, but it really stems in the core of it is the content. Like the content. And then continuing all those touch points. But couldn't agree more. Like you can just charge so much more for everything because of your content.
- [31:55]
B
Exactly.
- [31:56]
A
If, if you or I wasn't making content, we'd probably be charging a significant less amount of money.
- [32:03]
B
Yes.
- [32:03]
A
Like, but because we're seen as this authority, authoritative, like figure in content creation, in brand social, in on TikTok shop, whatever, like we're able to charge what we charge.
- [32:16]
B
Yeah.
- [32:16]
A
And that happens for any physical product as well.
- [32:20]
B
A framework I like to use is think of your product on a spec sheet, a one pager and you have your features, you have your specifications. That's ingredients. If you're a food product, that's materials. If you're a shoe, like you're describing and every single material has a reason that it's there Every. Every single brand thinks like that's something you can overlook, that that's not that important, when in actuality that's an opportunity for you to value engineer. Damn.
- [32:50]
A
Someone with low status right there.
- [32:51]
B
Low status?
- [32:52]
A
Low status move.
- [32:53]
B
If you rev your car at stoplights, you're at low status and there's no.
- [32:56]
A
There's no stop sign right here.
- [32:58]
B
I would gun it on this if I had a fast whip, maybe, but I don't know. My Tesla plaid's not going to make a sound. You know what I'm saying? It's not still 5050 on that. Anyway, so if you have a set of features, materials, all of that stuff. You said carbon fiber was in the shoe, so. Okay, well, I don't know what the hell carbon fiber is, to be honest with you. It sounds nice, but I really don't fucking know. And so be kind of cool if you told me why it's expensive and why it's a better material than whatever silicone mold is being used as an alternative and why it's not going to break my feet and give me plantar fasciitis. And now I'm going to be like, oh, this shoe is 230. The other one's 150. I'll get the 230 for you.
- [33:37]
A
It would basically be able to tell you that, like, hey, you're going to be able to dunk, like, jump higher when you dunk.
- [33:42]
B
Right. Which is great.
- [33:43]
A
And that's the framing that it has to go through.
- [33:45]
B
Sell the transformation through the value engineering.
- [33:48]
A
35% increase in force production for brine is I get to dunk or still REM grades. Yeah.
- [33:55]
B
Or like 35%. How many? 50.
- [33:57]
A
I'm going to have a worse ankle sprain, technically.
- [33:59]
B
Yeah. I'm back, though. You see me walking. I know you see me.
- [34:02]
A
I saw you gunning over here.
- [34:03]
B
Yeah, yeah. Still running from that snake two weeks later. So the other thing that brands do to make themselves high status is building urgency through scarcity. So when you make your products scarce, whether that's through collabs, whether that's through just limited drops of a specific collection, all of a sudden you're creating this urgency to take advantage of that in the moment. And if you are a fashion brand, that's super obvious, your collections should obviously be in limited production if you have the demand to justify it. But how does this look like if you're a consumable product? You know, this is flavors when super coffee. One of our clients, they were kind of like middle of the Road doing okay on TikTok. Shop there for a bit. We dropped a peppermint mocha at the beginning of December. Fly. Right. Because all of a sudden people want the seasonal drink. This is nothing new. Starbucks does this. Everyone, everyone does it. But if you're a D2C brand again, look at those things that traditional brands have done for 70 years and make it like adapted to 2025. You know, drop that limited edition flavor in the spring that feels nice and refreshing and then create your marketing content around that drop. But that's only going to be there for about 45 days.
- [35:15]
A
Yeah.
- [35:15]
B
So if you're a die hard fan of the brand, you better take advantage of that scarcity. And that's how you build urgency and purchase behavior.
- [35:22]
A
The one of my favorite examples of that this year was Saucony Minted New York. And I know like you said, it's a fashion brand. It's like a very.
- [35:30]
B
You know, people were killing Saucony in those comments. Killing Saucony?
- [35:35]
A
Why?
- [35:35]
B
I don't know. They're just saying they fell off. I don't know anything about running. Like, if anyone follows me on ig.
- [35:41]
A
I'm not gonna lie, it felt so out of place for you to do the high status, low stats running.
- [35:46]
B
I don't know anything.
- [35:47]
A
You trend jacked. You're like, I know, you know, people pop off when they do running videos and you were doing high stat. And that's why I think Matt from, from tier was like, what? Because you don't know about running and you're jumping in there like high stats, low stats.
- [36:02]
B
I saw 20 Hocus Birkenstocks, I saw 20 Hokas in a day. I said, I'm coming for them. Yeah, it's them that's my enemy. I'm coming for it.
- [36:10]
A
But Saucony, yeah, Like the one thing that they've done that's high status this year was their collab with Minted New York.
- [36:16]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [36:16]
A
Like that There was that feeling of what? First off, it sold out in like a minute. And you know, it was high status because it was on Go and StockX within. Within the hour.
- [36:26]
B
Yeah. Like a great question is like, is your product potentially resellable? Is someone going to get it as a collector's item?
- [36:33]
A
Yeah.
- [36:34]
B
And that's a good segue into like FOMO is one of the strongest psychological buying behaviors that brands can use in 2025. It's like by far. Like if you can get someone to feel like they missed out, then is there a more powerful emotion? I Mean, no, seriously, like it's. It's how you basically want to trick someone into being irrational about their behavior with your brand. Like Ame, for example. Ame Leon Dor. They constantly have these archive sales, right. They have this end of season sale where they go through their entire set of jackets and they're selling jackets in the spring. So you know, they push all these jackets in the fall. Now it's springtime, it's summer. So like whatever it's going to bro, they'll throw them 50% off. That's crazy. When you bought the jacket at full price.
- [37:25]
A
I know.
- [37:26]
B
It breaks your hearts. It hurts. Breaks your heart. And like, I think what's crazy is that they're able to fomo you into buying the new collection because they sell out of stuff so frequently and so they make you act irrational at the beginning. Like they make you act irrational at the drop, even though it might be misplaced behavior.
- [37:43]
A
Yeah.
- [37:44]
B
And I mean, shit. This jacket in particular, is that Ame?
- [37:47]
A
Is that cherry?
- [37:48]
B
Zame?
- [37:49]
A
Okay. It looks like my pants that I have that. That's why I was wondering if it was cherry.
- [37:53]
B
Damn. I thought you were about to say it looks like my parents jacket.
- [37:55]
A
No, I thought I was. I like it, I like it. But I have a pair of pants that like, it's the same kind of darker beige and lighter beige.
- [38:02]
B
Yeah. Another way brands can, you know, build high status with their customers is through a couple of different combinations, which is enemy marketing storytelling. So people become less price sensitive as you tell your story to them more. And what does that look like? It's behind the scenes content. It's visiting the supplier. It's telling your why through content. You want to say, you know, I was wronged by XYZ and therefore I started this. Talked about Mosey Wash. There's another guy, Feelgoods, he's a TikTok guy and you know, he's in the hydration space. So hydration is obviously getting very saturated these days. But he doesn't assume that his audience knows that. It's really easy to get into a trap with your contents of thinking that everyone is problem aware of your product. And I thought that too. I thought hydration was really saturated. I went to H E B Whole Foods and saw nothing but Liquid IV on the shelves. And I was like, oh, okay. There's still so much upside for all of these brands to actually continue to steal market share. But how did he basically use enemy marketing and storytelling? He would take a Gatorade bottle and toss it behind him. And be like, you're drinking trash. You're literally drinking sugar. Every time you drink a Gatorade, you're not actually getting healthy electrolytes for you. And he did that with Gatorade. He did that with Pedialyte. He did that with every incumbent beverage that people use to hydrate. And so his enemy then became big industry. Railing against big industry is one of the most effective things you can do in 2025. And not only that, but you talked about visual hooks earlier in this episode. It's a great visual hook. He's taught every single visual hook. He tosses the Gatorade behind him and then he drains it in a trash can.
- [39:48]
A
That's great.
- [39:49]
B
Yeah, no, look, spot on. He must have taken 50 takes.
- [39:52]
A
No, look. Wow.
- [39:53]
B
It's an unbelievable shot.
- [39:54]
A
And like, you see it, like, does he throw it and you see it go in and all in one same shot.
- [39:58]
B
Oh, yeah. It's a great cut up. It's a great visual hook. And it's just so powerful because it's stupid, it's silly. It's like, ha, ha. But also like, the symbolism is still there behind it and it's attention grabbing. So it really is that perfect combination of things. But what he's also doing is giving himself an opportunity to tell his story. I was someone who would always be hungover. I needed to drink electrolytes to feel better and recover. And so I got into drinking Gatorade too much. It never really made me feel that much better. And I started to look into why. All of a sudden he's got your attention. He's built the problem and now he's ready to sell you solution.
- [40:40]
A
This was our conversation earlier today with Jocko Fuel, where we're going through all like their kind of Q1 content roadmap and kind of the middle of the funnel. We're going through the different content ideas and one of them is essentially like based off of any the enemy framework. Now, we didn't do it from the lens of, hey, we're going to attack because it's harder. I've had more conversations with larger brands about like enemy framework and whatnot. And what you'll realize is like, the bigger the brand gets, the more they don't want to like attack someone like a big brand specifically, which I think is really stupid. I think it depends on the kind of brand it is. Where Jocko feel like it's so high integrity in a good way. Where it looks bad if they're attacking specifically Muscle Milk.
- [41:25]
B
Yeah, yeah. But it does look Tacky.
- [41:27]
A
It does look for them specifically. Right. And. And so.
- [41:31]
B
But when you're the, when you're the little guy, it's powerful.
- [41:34]
A
Exactly. If it was like 0 to 1 for Jocko Fuel, that's a different story. Like, if Jocko was in Jocko and like, they didn't have this big company. Yeah, it makes sense. But for the little guy who's like, yo, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain, let me attack the little guy. Definitely. When we talked to Midday Squares a long time, like, I don't know, six months ago, he was like, that's what we use to start. Like, that was our hook on, hey, we're gonna attack these guys. And then now, as we've gotten bigger, it's now a little tacky. It's a little more lame. If we always go after, like, Hershey's, we sprinkle it in. But the now the framing changes from I'm attacking the company to attacking what those companies are doing.
- [42:13]
B
So you kind of. You kind of seem like a crazy ex girlfriend when you start doing it too much.
- [42:17]
A
Yeah, bro.
- [42:18]
B
Yeah.
- [42:18]
A
100%.
- [42:18]
B
What's this guy's beef? Is the beef with Hershey's, like, deeper than we thought?
- [42:23]
A
Exactly. Like, did he used to work at Hershey's? He got fired and he's never got over it kind of thing.
- [42:28]
B
Who knows?
- [42:29]
A
Exactly.
- [42:30]
B
But instead, now he's just pushing Superfood chocolate squares.
- [42:34]
A
Yes. And so for Jocko Fuel, for example, it's like, Sucralose is the enemy. All the hydration drinks that you buy that are like a ready to drink, they're all red or blue. And so jockofuels is clear. So what are the other companies doing? The big companies that we all know? If I say, hey, like, these hydration drinks are blue. Oh, they're using harmful dyes. And so now that is what we're turning into the enemy. So we could charge a higher price point because of how clean our products are.
- [43:02]
B
My question is, what is their sensitivity to a silhouette of a Gatorade bottle when the form factor of the enemy is so obvious that you can use it without branding it? Do they think that's still tacky?
- [43:13]
A
I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I didn't ask.
- [43:17]
B
That's how a lot of people get around. It is. They'll do like the side by side comparison. And it's like, obviously a fucking Gatorade.
- [43:22]
A
Yeah. They'll do the US Version on the landing page. And it's like oh, you're 100% talking about.
- [43:26]
B
I'm not gonna lie. Even as a consumer, it definitely rubs me the wrong way. I realize I'm super insulated from like, you know, normal perceptions of marketing at this point, but it's still. I'm kind of like, you didn't need to say all that, you know. Yeah, like the I get the us versus them chart on your landing page, but when you make it about content and you're specifically calling them out, it almost feels like you're trying too hard.
- [43:51]
A
So you just did a whole 180 on your.
- [43:53]
B
Take less than a minute for me to contact myself.
- [43:58]
A
I was confused here. Like, didn't you just say the complete opposite?
- [44:02]
B
I think enemy marketing is much more effective when you're going after a broader enemy, whether that's behavior or industry trend compared to direct person. I think Mac, PC, like Verizon versus AT&T, that shit. Obviously, I mean they have to do enemy marketing because it's literally a binary choice. It's like you're either going to, you're going to have one and so you have to choose between those two. Most products are not in those categories of fully solution aware.
- [44:32]
A
And I think with Mac versus PC there was such an entertaining element where it didn't feel like I am just shit talking. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, here's Justin Long was.
- [44:41]
B
Like pretty famous too.
- [44:42]
A
Yeah. You know, here's PC again. He just ran an eight hour marathon. Very similar to the tech. Like it was just so funny in the way that they leverage that information versus like, although I do think when you're doing like your founding story for some brands, it's a great. That is the perfect opportunity to leverage it.
- [45:00]
B
Yeah.
- [45:01]
A
Right. Where you're talking about like, hey, I'm starting this because like I've been facing this problem. I think the, the guys that do a really good job of it, like honey. Plus that we know them here in here in Austin, they're starting to do pretty well.
- [45:13]
B
They should. I'm seeing some.
- [45:15]
A
You see their content?
- [45:16]
B
Yeah, it's great.
- [45:17]
A
They've nailed the visual hook where they squeeze it and they just like let it.
- [45:20]
B
Yeah.
- [45:20]
A
Fall into their hand. They're doing a really.
- [45:24]
B
He's a smart kid.
- [45:25]
A
They seem like it, dude. Yeah, they seem like it.
- [45:27]
B
But I think it's Ross. Do you know if it's Ross? So Kate is leaving us and we are looking for a new podcast producer. So if you are someone in the Austin area and you watch this podcast, believe in this podcast, think it can go places. Full time role available to come work with the boys. You would be doing all sorts of YouTube strategy, editing, filming, you name it. But we need a new podcast producer. So if that feels like you or if you want to come be a part of this growth story, then hit us up in the DMs and. Yeah, we got a couple weeks.
- [46:04]
A
See what we get.
- [46:05]
B
Yeah.
- [46:06]
A
And he's not leaving us because this is terrible. He's leaving us because he's moving.
- [46:11]
B
Well, it's not a. Yeah, it's like, not a divorce. It's like, you know, I took a job in Italy, I got to go. It's like life is calling me elsewhere, basically. Yeah.
- [46:20]
A
Getting married, all that stuff.
- [46:22]
B
Yeah. He grew up on us. So if you're still a young hustler, hit the dms.
- [46:27]
A
I feel like Kate's trending in my direction. I think it's like I have a child here.
- [46:32]
B
You are. You are.
- [46:33]
A
I don't know about us growing up. Like, I got a child. I just put a baby to bed before I came here.
- [46:39]
B
Yeah, yeah. All right, I'm sure. All right, man. Well, is that a wrap? Yeah, that's a wrap. We'll catch you all next week. Peace.