The $2 Billion Copywriting Secret Behind The Most Successful Ad Ever w/ Sam Parr

Summary

Sweat Equity Podcast Summary

Episode: The $2 Billion Copywriting Secret Behind The Most Successful Ad Ever

Host: Marketing Examined (Alex Garcia & Brian Blum)
Guest: Sam Parr (Founder of The Hustle, Co-host of My First Million)
Date: May 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic, idea-packed episode, Alex Garcia and Brian Blum of Marketing Examined host Sam Parr—a copywriting powerhouse and founder of The Hustle—for a deep dive into the frameworks, psychology, and playbooks that create world-beating copy. With a focus on classic and contemporary ad examples, headline crafting, "curiosity gap," and storytelling, the trio break down how copywriting can drive billions in sales and transformation for any brand.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Essence and Psychology of Copywriting

• Copywriting is about control and influence, not just writing.
  "You're reading this not because you want to, but because I want you to."
  — Sam Parr [00:00]
• Purpose: It's not about convincing everyone—it's about hooking the right person and leading them down a path.
  "The goal is not to get 100% of people to buy what you want. It's to get the right person to read all of the ad, and a large percentage of them are eventually going to buy."
  — Sam Parr [00:33, 18:58]

Memorable Example:

• Sam tells how he applied the AIDA framework (Attention, Interest, Desire, Action) to land a date with his now-wife—using humor to break the ice (the "restaurant owner energy" approach) [01:09].

2. The Power of Headlines & the "Curiosity Gap"

• Headlines Decide Everything:
  "On average, five times as many people read the headline as read the body copy. When you've written your headline, you've spent 80 cents out of your dollar."
  — Alex quoting David Ogilvy [02:58]
• "Curiosity Gap": The irresistible tension between what’s revealed and what’s withheld.
  • Example: "Everyone laughed at me when I started playing the piano. Then they heard me play."
• "Minding the Gap": Sam credits classic ads and viral sites like Upworthy for exploiting the curiosity gap to drive massive clicks [05:03–06:39].

3. Copy Length, Engagement, & Open Loops

• Sam fights the myth that “short is always better”:
  "Long will almost always convert better. Ugly will almost always convert better. But it just has to be interesting."
  — Sam Parr [07:41, 08:05]
• Deep-dive into "open loops"—ongoing tension or unresolved teases in both ads and content, a technique even Tony Robbins and magicians deploy [07:07–11:10].

Notable Quote:
"You have to stack open loop on open loop as you’re writing that script."
— Co-host [07:13]

4. Targeted Headline Crafting & Audience Segmentation

• Niche targeting (“niches make riches”): Using headlines to speak directly to micro-audiences.
  Example: "50 reasons you know you’re from Denver, Colorado" [12:26].
• Luxury ad breakdowns (Rolex, Delta, etc.): Speak to desires/aspirations your audience already identifies with [12:00–13:36].

5. Storytelling as a Conversion Engine

• Deep dive on the most successful copywriting ad ever—the "Two Young Men" Wall Street Journal ad, responsible for over $2 billion in revenue [23:20].
  • "Story, story, story, story... The best thing to make something interesting is to make it a story. Everything has to be a story."
    — Sam Parr [24:28]
• How to structure stories:
  • Use the hero’s journey: Customer is hero, the brand is the guide [24:49].
  • Tension and transformation are essential: Add relatability and stakes.

6. Editing, Simplicity, and Rhythmic Writing

• Write at a seventh grade level: Simpler = clearer = more persuasive [20:34].
• Edit ruthlessly:
  • Write the first draft, then "cut a third, cut a third, and cut a third again" (“kill your darlings”) [22:23].
  • Hemingway, Buffett, Ogilvy, all exemplify clarity with short, punchy sentences [22:00–22:23].

7. The "Slippery Slope" Principle

• From Joe Sugarman: The point of every sentence is to get you to read the next one. "Getting someone to fall down the slippery slope... is one of the axioms." [17:22, 17:59]
• Use consistency and small asks to build commitment (the yard-sign study) [18:01].

8. Copy Work: The Secret Training Method

• Write out classic ads/stories/scripts by hand to absorb style, rhythm, and structure ("copy work") [28:03–32:05].
  • Example: Sam wrote out The Boron Letters, SNL scripts, classic novels.
• Analogy to learning instruments: Imitation before innovation [29:10].

9. Live Copy Teardowns

Sam’s process for rewriting bad ads on the spot:

• Focus first on proof (showing results), transformation (before/after), and specificity— not general promises.
• Use visceral imagery: "Imagine storing your food in the toilet bowl. That’s exactly what you’re doing…" [39:04].
• Infuse humor and human energy where appropriate.

10. Humor and Brand Personality

• Humor isn’t for every brand, but when aligned, it’s highly effective (The Hustle’s headlines, New York Post style) [44:02–45:15].
• Hire for humor and allow personality to shine.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Sam Parr:

  • "You're reading this not because you want to, but because I want you to." [00:00, 09:35]
  • "Long will almost always convert better. Ugly will almost always convert better. But it just has to be interesting." [08:05]
  • "The purpose of the first sentence is to get you to read the second sentence." (Joe Sugarman) [18:01]
  • "Everything has to be a story." [24:28]

• Alex:

  • "On average, five times as many people read the headline as read the body copy." [02:58]

• Co-host:

  • "You have to stack open loop on open loop..." [07:13]
  • "Isn't that the secret to copywriting? Constraint forcing clarity." [21:56]

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |-----------|----------------| | 00:00–01:09 | Introduction to copywriting psychology and frameworks from Sam Parr | | 03:14–04:25 | Ogilvy and the Rolls Royce ad; importance of headlines | | 05:03–06:21 | Curiosity gap; "They laughed when I sat down at the piano" ad | | 07:07–08:13 | Attention spans, content length, and engagement techniques | | 12:00–13:36 | Targeting audiences via headlines and niche segmentation | | 17:22–19:01 | The "slippery slope" and copywriting consistency rules | | 20:34–23:14 | Editing, sentence structure, and writing at a 7th grade level | | 23:20–24:28 | Breakdown of the Wall Street Journal "Two Young Men" ad | | 24:49–26:47 | Elements of engaging storytelling in copywriting | | 28:03–32:05 | Copy work: the hands-on practice of writing out classic ads/scripts | | 33:21–43:10 | Live critique & rewriting of poor ads (AG1, Caraway, Harley) | | 44:02–45:15 | Role of humor and personality in copywriting | | 45:18–46:57 | Roadmap for new copywriters: copy work, classic material, and practice | | 47:15–48:50 | Stealing inspiration from magazines and unexpected sources | | 53:01–54:33 | Sam’s viral “onion salesman” video: storytelling and analytics breakdown |

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Practical Playbook Takeaways

• Headline First, Substance Later: Spend 80% of your effort on the hook/headline. Craft curiosity and speak to one person’s desire or aspiration.
• Open Loops & Curiosity: Tease, pause, and resolve. Keep tension until the copy or video delivers.
• Story > Info: Use case studies, founder tales, or transformation arcs for maximum engagement.
• Remove the Fluff: Write at a 7th grade level, cut relentlessly, and keep transitions smooth.
• Copy Work: Handwrite classic copy to develop intuition for what sells.
• Punch & Proof: Open with a statement that “punches,” but then provide proof, specifics, and visceral imagery.
• Think Objections: Overtly address and disarm consumer skepticism in your copy.

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Recommended Resources Mentioned

• Classic Copywriting Books:
  • “Breakthrough Advertising”
  • “The Boron Letters”
  • Joe Sugarman's books
  • David Ogilvy (e.g., “Ogilvy on Advertising”)
• Tools: hemingwayapp.com for readability

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For Aspiring Copywriters

• Sam’s Roadmap:
  • Find and hand-copy classics for six months (“copy hour”).
  • Copy across genres—ads, fiction, standup, SNL, magazines.
  • Analyze rhythm, brevity, tension, curiosity, and structure in what you love.
  • Write, edit by cutting, and practice relentless self-critique.

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Final Memorable Moment

"Imagine storing your food in the toilet bowl. That’s exactly what you’re doing... There’s more E. Coli in one-year-old Tupperware than your toilet bowl."
— Sam Parr [39:04]

"Everything has to be a story. And a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end, with a little bit of tension in there."
— Sam Parr [24:28]

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Follow Sam Parr:

• Instagram: @thesamparr
• Podcast: My First Million
• Community: Hampton

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This episode is an essential listen for anyone interested in marketing, copywriting, storytelling, or the psychology of persuasion—rich with frameworks, real-world examples, actionable tactics, and irreverent humor.

Transcript

[Sam Parr]

You're reading this not because you want to, but because I want you to. Now you're reading this second sentence because again, I'm telling you and forcing you to read this. This is called copywriting. This is Sam Parr, founder of the Hustle newsletter empire he built from scratch. He's also the co host of one of the leading business podcasts in the world, My First Million. Today, he's breaking down the exact copywriting frameworks that built his businesses. No one will read this or watch this. This is too long. No, it's not interesting enough. The goal is not to get 100% of people to buy what you want. It's to get the right person to read all of the ad, and a large percentage of them are eventually going to buy.

[Alex]

Do I want to focus on the importance of copywriting in. In this episode, there's two tweets that you put out that I'm gonna. I'm gonna Highlight one in 2022, one in 2020 first one. Because copywriting isn't just writing words. It's understanding what people want and how to get them to do what you want them to do. And then sometimes figure out which words are needed to get the desired outcome. That's tweet number one. Tweet number two. Good copywriting means getting what's in my head into yours and influencing your behavior, getting you to do what I want. How did you use copywriting to land a first date with your wife?

[Sam Parr]

Then I saw this really pretty lady in a restaurant at like a happy hour, and I the one of the basic principles for copywriting is ada. Attention, interest, desire, action. And I was like, what's a good day? I need to grab her attention. And I was with my friend Lily, who was just a buddy of mine, and I said, lily, that girl is really pretty. I gotta stop her when she walks by. I don't know what to say. And as I was saying that, she like, oh, hey, what's the difference between a chickpea and a lentil? And she's like, huh? And I was like, I don't pay $500 to have a lentil on my face. And she was like. It was stunned. And I was like, classic garbanzo being joke. You hit him a little. Big hummus fan, huh? And she thought it was hilarious. And I was like, I'm Sam. Nice to meet you.

[Co-host]

Yeah, it's high risk, high reward, because if it doesn't land. But it's good because that wouldn't be your brand of comedy, you know, if

[Sam Parr]

she didn't laugh at a good, you know, pee on my face joke, then we always talk about this.

[Alex]

Like when you meet somebody new and you start like testing the water with jokes to see what you can land, what you can't, what you have to take back. And.

[Sam Parr]

But when I tell our salespeople here and what I've always told our salespeople, and it's the same for flirting, you can say virtually anything. As long as you make them laugh.

[Co-host]

Yes.

[Sam Parr]

You know, as long as you make someone laugh and smile and it's clear that you're supposed to be not harmful.

[Co-host]

I mean, the key is to talk to them like you know them already. Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

I call that restaurant energy owner.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Like, you don't want to make it seem like you're stiff because then they'll be like, what's wrong with this person?

[Sam Parr]

I call that restaurant owner energy. You know, like, you know, like, you

[Co-host]

walk over, like, you tell, hey, buddy,

[Sam Parr]

nice to see you again. You never seen him before.

[Co-host]

How's the family?

[Sam Parr]

How's everything going? You guys having a great time? Hey, hey, come here. Cheryl, can you give these. Fill these guys up with some wine.

[Alex]

That's exactly my experience yesterday in Little Italy, like, it was. The guy just came with so much energy, like, oh, my God, how's, how's your daughter? Let me get her something. You like ice cream? Okay, I'll get you ice cream. Like, it was out the gate asking

[Co-host]

the three year old if she likes ice cream. Smart.

[Alex]

But I wanted to touch on that just because of the importance of headlines. Right. Like there's the David Ogilvy quote of on average, five times as many people read the headline as read the body of copy. When you've written your headline, you've spent 80 cents out of your dollar, the quote from this book, from that one right there.

[Sam Parr]

And. And half the stuff. If you ever see me write about copyright or talk about copywriting, I'm really just stealing that one.

[Alex]

Yes. This is, I mean, I have both of them.

[Sam Parr]

This is, this is the best book that you could read on copywriting. And it's the reason. One of the reasons why it's great is it's less popular than this one. And so you can just steal a lot of it. Right. No one will know now.

[Alex]

So what I want to do is I have five headlines that I essentially want to show you and have you break them down from mostly classic ads. Because there is no soul in copywriting in today's world.

[Sam Parr]

There is, there is.

[Alex]

You just gotta find it it's hard to find. I think there was one that you talked about. Like, what is it? Get flakes or something like a dragon.

[Sam Parr]

Flakes is awesome. I use their shampoo all the time. I love their ads.

[Co-host]

I will say a great place for copywriting is the New York subways these days. Like a lot of these, like display ads on the subways are starting to hit as well.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. You could find it.

[Alex]

The first one that I want you to break down is a classic at

[Sam Parr]

60 miles an hour. The loudest noise in this new Rolls Royce comes from the electric clock. What makes the Rolls Royce the best, best car in the world. This is a David Ovy ad, right? It is, yeah. I love it. It's so good. He sold a lot of cars from this. This is actually from this book, I think, actually, isn't it?

[Alex]

It is. It's in there. He spent something on. It was like weeks just writing that single headline.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. Basically, like what a lot of people do, they don't realize that they usually. What people do is they write an article and then they like at the last minute write the headline. And I think that that has changed now. Young people know to. With YouTube, like that the. The hook and like the packaging is like more important than the thing, than the actual video. And so I think they know that better now. But I actually don't know too much about the background of this ad. Do.

[Alex]

Yes and no. What I'm more so curious is like you reading that headline and that headline being known as. As to be one of the best headlines. What do you. What do you kind of take away from this? Is it because of like the curiosity gap?

[Sam Parr]

That's like. It's the curiosity gap, which is like. So you always have to mind the gap. So like the best example of this would be there's a headline. Have you guys ever. Do you guys remember Upworthy? How old are you? 20, 30 or 30? You guys might remember Upworthy. Do you guys remember Upworthy?

[Co-host]

No.

[Sam Parr]

Okay. So back before Tick Tock and a lot of social media stuff, there was just viral articles on Facebook. Yeah. And there would be these articles that said like the tops 10 reasons why you shouldn't go camping. You're not going to believe number seven.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Okay. Do you remember like that style? Yeah.

[Alex]

You would see that on meta a lot.

[Sam Parr]

There's this one guy who created that, this blog called Upworthy. And actually Joe, my partner who's around here, he had an Upworthy competitor. And Joe's website went from 0 to 200 million monthly visitors. In a matter of like, holy shit, six months. Because they would write these articles like that, and it was clickbait, so it was junk. But anyway, that was inspired by an old ad that might be in one of these books. And it was. Everyone laughed at me when I started playing the piano. Then they heard me play. And that's sort of the same thing where it's like, huh, what? Okay. It's called minding the gap. There's something that grabs your attention and I need to figure out and read the rest of this to release the tension. Yeah. So this is one of the most famous ads of all time. They laughed at. They laughed when I sat down at the piano. But then I started to play.

[Co-host]

What's he selling?

[Sam Parr]

A course on how to write.

[Alex]

Is it for the music?

[Co-host]

Oh, no way.

[Alex]

US Music school.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. It was for a music. Was it a court? Like a written course? Who wrote this? Is this. Is this if you said the name Claude Hopkins?

[Alex]

Yes.

[Sam Parr]

Is that who that is?

[Alex]

Yes.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, that's a good ad. This is one of the most famous ads of all time.

[Alex]

Break down. What is minding the gap?

[Sam Parr]

Minding the gap is basically like when you're telling a story, you need it to be resolved. Kind of like similar how like music needs to be resolved. Like, have you ever seen like on the Office where like, someone like, ruins the song for Andy and he's like, oh, I gotta resolve that melody. Yeah, it's the same way with headlines. So, like, human beings aren't very good at leaving like a cliffhanger. Like, you have to know what it is. And so with good copy, the headline, you need to say something that grabs someone's attention and they have to continue the rest to know what's happening.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I mean, this is something that, you know, we both do a lot in our script writing for our short form content is open loops.

[Sam Parr]

Open loops is exactly what I'm just saying.

[Co-host]

When you create an open loop with the curiosity driving hook, it's especially in short form content. Because, I mean, back in the day, people's attention spans weren't so cooked. But like now you basically have to stack open loop on open loop as you're writing that script.

[Sam Parr]

I hear people say that all the time. They always say people's attention now is different than what it used to be. I actually disagree with that. I think human attention was always. It's been always the same. You've always had to do the same thing.

[Co-host]

You've always had to. You think? I guess maybe retention would be.

[Sam Parr]

No, I have Zero data. I'm just trying to say my opinion here, but I think that. See a lot of people think that long means bad. I would say long still converts long. Longer form things still almost always converts better. The issue is that people use the word long is bad or like no one will read this or watch this. This is too long. No, it's not interesting enough.

[Co-host]

Correct.

[Sam Parr]

And so I always try to tell people that long will almost always convert better. Ugly will almost always convert better. But it just has to be interesting.

[Co-host]

The biggest eye opening experience that I've had in that realm is getting into the telehealth space last year and going up against like these deep kind of like gray area affiliate marketers. I mean just random guys that were like selling GLP1 brands. Like I'm sure you saw the Med V thing. Like.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

So you know what people would do is to your point, I built a short form content agency. I thought short form was the way these guys are running 27 minute video sales letters before a YouTube video. Right, right. Betting that no one's going to click skip ad.

[Sam Parr]

No, long is always better. Yeah.

[Co-host]

And it's insane. They would spin up these nine, you know, figure funnels and you're just like, how is this, how is this working? But it's because, you know, a boomer

[Sam Parr]

is kind of in general. So have you guys seen this website I have called copy that.com?

[Alex]

i went through the course.

[Sam Parr]

So that makes a full time salary that pays for a lot of my living expenses. And that is a. In New York or awesome in New York. It's just 2,000 words on white on with a white background. And that page converts out like probably 5%. So 5% of people who go to it buy it.

[Co-host]

It's pretty good if I remember correctly too. It's kind of. Is it one of those. It's almost like Inception, right? Where you're like, here's like good copy. Like you just read this copy like at the end of the sales letter. Don't you say that or something? Maybe. Yeah. You're like, I got your ass if you made it this far.

[Sam Parr]

Well, there's a famous hook that I always used to use. So, um, I would always use this hook where it says, you're reading this not because you want to, but because I want you to.

[Co-host]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sam Parr]

Now you're reading this second sentence because again, I'm telling you and forcing you to read this. This is called copywriting. I'm getting you to fall down the slippery slope not because you want to but because I am making you like. Yeah, like, I.

[Alex]

You.

[Sam Parr]

I love.

[Co-host]

I love kind of breaking the fourth wall a little bit.

[Sam Parr]

I love that stuff. Yes.

[Alex]

Something that's been interesting for me is all of my quote unquote short form content. Usually I played in this realm of like 45 seconds. Now I've been extended it to a minute 15, minute 20. All of that content has been performing better, but I've been using a significant more of like, adding in curiosity gaps almost like every eight seconds within the video. But it's been interesting to see the data.

[Sam Parr]

You know who does that really good is Tony Robbins. So, like, if you read a Tony Robbins book, they're so freaking long, they're like 800 pages. And it'll be like, in this chapter, I'm gonna tell you about this. But wait until you get the next chapter. That's when you're gonna see something that's gonna blow your mind.

[Alex]

It's almost like a YouTube script. Like the. The intro for a YouTube script. Put it into.

[Co-host]

Just always teasing.

[Sam Parr]

When I was a kid, I looked like Napoleon. So I couldn't really, like, get girls. And so I had to read, like, every pickup artist book there was to get someone to, like, have a crush on me. And one of the, like, it's like half the shit that I know about marketing I just stole from, like, pickup artist books. But there's this idea of, like, whenever you talk to a girl, you want to put a time constraint on, because then they feel like, okay, I know he's going to go in a minute. Yeah. Therefore, I don't mind letting him finish, like, his feel. So, like, when you talk to someone, like, hey, guys, I got to go to my buddies really quick, but I had a question. You know, something like that. Yeah. Or like, I only have one minute because I'm running late, but really quick.

[Co-host]

It's a really good way to snap someone into it.

[Sam Parr]

Exactly. And so what I've noticed is that if you do that in copy, like, what. What I'm about to tell you next is really going to blow your mind. But really quick, let me tell you this, right? That's like a really good tactic.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Good way to insert a detail.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. Oz Pearlman, you guys know the magician O is Perlman.

[Alex]

That's who you just had on. I don't know who.

[Sam Parr]

Dude, he was doing it to me the whole time.

[Co-host]

Is he doing, like, the. The stuff with pro. Pro sports teams and he's the hypnotist.

[Alex]

Oh, okay.

[Sam Parr]

And he was, like, constantly doing, like, Pickup artist stuff where he was like, all right, really quick, we're gonna do this, and I'm gonna have you do this. Like, he just had me eating out of his hand. Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Do you think it's like getting you in a trance kind of like, when he's doing it?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. He's just controlling the room.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Alex]

So back to the headlines with this headline specifically that I want to show you. I want you to break down almost how you can do targeting with your headline, how you can talk to the specific individual, get their attention. These are famous Rolex ads.

[Sam Parr]

Oh, I stole all of these. Yeah. So you don't even have my favorite one, which is the men who shape destinies wear Rolex. That's the best one. So that's the best one. What was your question? I didn't even. I was paying attention to this Rolex ad.

[Co-host]

There's also, like, that Delta one back in the day. It's like, for a guy who has a girl in every city.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

You know. Yeah.

[Alex]

The question's more so centered around how you can use the headline to target a specific kind of individual or interest.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. So, like, a good example of this is BuzzFeed. They used to do, like, so articles where it's like, 50 reasons, you know, you are from Denver, Colorado, you know, and, like, where the goal is, like, it will only appeal to people from Denver, Colorado, but 30% of them are going to click on that. I always just say, niches make riches. And so that's, like, the easiest way to get high engagement rate. And so, yeah, this does a good job where, like, they are targeting people who, like, no one's going to be a sailboat racer, but there's a lot of people who want to be.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. And so, yeah, these work really well. Or another example is I knew that this company started this thing called Homesick Candles, and it was a candle that was the smell of each of the 50 states. Like, I don't know what Texas would be, but, like, Washington was, like, evergreen. Like, tree, I guess. Tree.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

And so they killed it selling these candles because a huge percentage of, you

[Co-host]

know, Washington from Washington bought it. But also, if you're like, if you moved away from Washington, you can then get that for your mom, you know, like, it's. There's, like, an expansion.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. And we do those ads on for Hampton. We'd be like, look, if you make over $3 million a year, then I know exactly how you feel. You feel this way. And then I explain it and speak, like, very Intimately to them.

[Co-host]

Well, and that's probably like a huge reason you do the money wise thing. And I've been kind of seeing, you know, you have a piece of content that you've been ripping recently where it's like the difference between the levels of wealth. Yeah. Where it's like you're. You're at 1 million, you're at 10 million, you're at a hundred million.

[Alex]

And then it needs to be a series. Yeah, it needs to be 100.

[Co-host]

I mean, you're doing that in multiple different formats though, right? I feel like it's. I've seen it like several different.

[Sam Parr]

No, I haven't. But that's good idea. That should be a series.

[Co-host]

I mean, you could do a whole YouTube video on that.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, I agree. Honestly.

[Alex]

Because when you did it, it got covered on ink, it got covered on orbs, I think so.

[Sam Parr]

It's fucking awesome. I didn't know that.

[Alex]

The. The next Highline I want to get into is something you taught me when I was. For context. I worked at the the Hustle.

[Sam Parr]

Under what age did you work there?

[Alex]

How old was I? Yeah, 24, 25.

[Sam Parr]

That's awesome.

[Alex]

Was. You would talk about, like taking something that's well known, so taking a phrase that's well known and then spinning it to almost like recreate it so that like, you attach a brand. Maybe it wasn't. I'm just kidding.

[Sam Parr]

I talked so much that I could have forgotten.

[Alex]

But essentially like the idea of getting lost in the crowd. Okay. You can take that idea and be like, okay, how do we twist it to make this unique to our brand?

[Sam Parr]

Which example did I do that on?

[Alex]

That I don't remember, but I like. This copy is a good example of it.

[Sam Parr]

You may get lost, but not in the crowd. They have another good one. Did you see the one that they're like. It's the one about no one wants to have sex with you when you're in a Volkswagen.

[Alex]

I know what you're talking about.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Alex]

There's the Lamborghini one as well. That's like pick up nine. Nine times more women in. In this than a Lamborghini.

[Sam Parr]

Or.

[Alex]

Sorry, it was like a van ad.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, no, these are cool. These old Porsche ads. So actually my brand, Hampton, we just stole British racing green from a lot of these ads. That's the color they used. This is called. There's this book that Dharmesh, the founder of HubSpot, told me to read. And I can't remember the exact name, but it basically just gives you tons and Tons of sanitudes, so you can link to it. It gives you tons and tons of ways to use phrasing in your advantage. So, for example, the only thing you have to fear is fear itself. So that's like a. That. That's a style of phrase and it gives you, like, 10 different, like, types of phrases that you can. That you could steal or like, for example, Winston Churchill gave this famous speech after the battle of Dunkirk, and it, like, changed the course of the war because England was not going to win world, because English were. They were, like, kind of meek and afraid. And he was like, we're going to find on the beach, we're going to fight in the ocean, we're going to fight in the water, we're going to fight on the ships. And, like, it's this way of, like, using language to make it really more memorable. And there's all these really cool, like, frameworks that you can use, like using,

[Alex]

like, alliteration and all those.

[Co-host]

Because, I mean, the syntax does matter for sure, because the only thing you have to fear is fear itself. It's like you're being very specific. The only thing you have to fear. Curiosity gap. And then kind of gives that payoff at the end.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, there's a lot of these, like, really cool phrases.

[Alex]

Well, I think that's something that you would always say too, is like this idea of punching somebody in the face with your.

[Sam Parr]

The first word needs to punch or the first sentence needs to punch you.

[Alex]

Can you give us an example of, like, copy that you've written that that does that?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, like, you're reading this because I want you to, like, if I was going to sell a copywriting course, that's the first sentence.

[Co-host]

Then you had an ad for the

[Sam Parr]

Hustle, which was like, my friends think I'm smart. I'm not. It's really. Because I just read the Hustle. Right? So we probably spent $10 million on that ad. Yeah.

[Co-host]

That ad was singularly responsible for the exit to Housewife.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean, that ad, like, significantly outperformed. It was crazy how much money that one ad made us.

[Co-host]

And it had, like, the. The Ben Franklin dollar bill. Yeah, I know, because it converted me.

[Sam Parr]

Did it really?

[Co-host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Parr]

For a while. It was Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban's face. And he sent me a cease and desist. And he didn't ever know. I've since talked to him once or twice and he. I still doesn't know that I'm that guy. Sorry, Mark.

[Alex]

The next element I want to get into is now storytelling. So punch somebody in the face, get their attention with a headline. But now it's about writing copy that sucks people in.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. I call it the slippery slope. That's one of the axioms, actually, of. Of Joe Sugarman's books. Joe Sugarman's book is getting someone to fall down the slippery slope.

[Alex]

Break down. What is the slippery slope? Because I do have an example that I want you to after.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, look, there's this idea called the. The rule of consistency. Basically, like, if you're. If you've done one nice thing for me, you're more likely than not going to continue doing something nice for me. So, like a little bit of a joke is like, if I want you to do something nice for me, I'm gonna be like, I'll just be talking like, hey, can you hold that for me? And then, then I'm gonna actually ask you for the favor that I really want to ask you because you're already doing something for me. Yeah.

[Co-host]

You know what I mean? For sure.

[Sam Parr]

Like, that's like the. Like there's these little tricks that, like, you could do. Like you ask someone to do something for you. Like, for example, they did this crazy study where, let's just say that I'm a politician and I want to get you to put this huge sign on your front yard that says you're going to vote for me. The best thing to do is to say, hey, can you put this little sticker in your window? And then two weeks later, I'm going to come back and say, you're a huge supporter. We're only going to do this for a handful of huge supporters. Can we put this big sign there? The odds are that you're going to do it. I think it's like 40% higher because of the law. The law of consistency. Yeah. This is like a study that's been done over and over and over again. And so once you get someone to start falling down the slippery slope and start reading, they're going to start reading the Olga or Joe Sugarman would famously said, the purpose of the first sentence is to get you read to the second sentence. And the purpose of the second sentence is to get you to read the third sentence and so on. And then once with good copywriting, the goal is not to get 100% of people to buy what you want. It's to get the right person to read all of the ad, and a large percentage of them are eventually going to buy.

[Co-host]

All right, so over the last two years of building nibble shipping nearly 8,000 UGC ads and getting performance data on every single one of them. It became super clear there are two types of brands, those that understand creative volume and those that don't. The core difference was what they focused on. Brands that focused on volume plus hit rate were never complaining that Meta changed the algorithm. Their stuff just worked. And anytime we did work with one of those savvy brands, it was always on the same platform. Motion. Motion is by far the best tool to optimize your creative pipeline. Provide structure, visibility and insights that your creative team needs to make better decisions. I like to think of it as like what Meta would actually show you if they cared about your success. All the key metrics like 3 second stop rate, winning angles, formats, competitor research, it's all built into their platform so you can make quicker and better decisions. They even just launched their new AI agent, Runneth, which functions as a 24. 7 creative strategist, providing recommendations to your ad account. Y' all make sure to go check them out@motion app.com. all right, let's get back to the episode.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

And you, you've probably, I think you've put up that graphic before where it's like good writing is like music. It starts, it's a rhythm. Yeah. And it like has this kind of color coded syntax.

[Sam Parr]

It's like some sentences are short, some sentence, they're just a little bit longer. And some sentence will keep on writing because they're going to tell you about what you're going to read next and it's going to say you need to be prepared for this, that and this. Understood. Yeah. So it's like. Yeah, it needs to be like, like a little bit of a wrapper where it's like short, medium long. Short. Yeah, yeah, that's. I love rhythm when it comes to writing. That's my favorite thing.

[Co-host]

It's such a powerful way to like keep someone's attention rather than so many people will just ramble and kind of like speak in the same length of sentence over and over.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. And if you're new to writing, there's a few rules. Well, the first thing is you should write at a seventh grade reading level level and if you don't know what that means, you should go to hemingwayapp.com and that will you just put your copy in there and it'll tell you what reading level you're at. But USA Today, which is like a popular newspaper, that's a fourth grade. And the New York Times, which is, some people think it's like a Smart person's newspaper. That's seventh grade. And so usually what you want to do is one sentence should have one point that it makes. So if you're going to use two, if you're going to use a comma in a sentence, oftentimes you want to use a period instead. The second thing is it's really good for rhythm wise to start the second or third sentence, the next sentence, with and, or. But yeah, I do that all the time. It helps, like, create rhythm transition words. But usually when you need to have a comma, use a period. Short sentences are the best. Warren Buffett does something amazing. He explains incredibly complicated things like the insurance business, which is a very complicated thing. He explains it in very simple sentences. So the average. So Warren Buffett's famous for writing these annual letters where he breaks down the business and anyone can read them and they could understand a little bit about geico, which very complicated company. And the average length per sentence, I went and analyzed it is 17 words, not a lot. And actually you started at 25 when he was younger. And over the years it's consistently gone down to 17 words. It might be as short as 14, but last time I looked, it was 17.

[Co-host]

Isn't that kind of the secret to copywriting, though, is constraint forcing clarity?

[Sam Parr]

Yes, 100%. And if you look at some of the best authors that you like, like, I love, like, if. Just look at the classics, Hemingway, like his book the Old man by the Sea, it'll say like, the man was sad, he wanted to go fish. Like those. And it's like a pretty, like a profound book. And so you can like, have these, like, pretty profound feelings and emotions and everything, but said simply.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I think it was Sean's. Sean had a thing back in the day. Sean, you're a co host, and it was like, write your first draft, then cut a third, cut a third, and then cut a third, and then cut a third again.

[Sam Parr]

It's called Killing youg Darlings.

[Co-host]

Yeah. And I honestly have used that to like, that has been such a guiding principle for all the best copy I've ever written. Because it just makes you get the damn word out there that you're actually trying to say, rather than like all these different clauses and different ways writing

[Alex]

a sentence in cut 30. We always talk about the idea of, like, writing with your eraser. You're going to write your script and then now you're going to write with your eraser and chop it completely down.

[Sam Parr]

One of my favorite writers would say they write drunk and edit Sober.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

David Ogilvie famously says, he goes, I'm a shit writer. I'm a great editor. That's so good. And so, yeah, okay, you gotta write the crap. You just gotta get it out on paper.

[Alex]

Part of that magic is seen in the. In the Wall Street Journal ad that they ran for 28 years.

[Sam Parr]

Love that ad. It was this tale of two boys, right?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

What was the headline? I don't remember. So on a Beautiful spring afternoon 25 years ago, two young men graduated from the same college. They were very much alike, these two young men, but both. Both had been your better than average student, both were personable, and both, as young graduates, were filled with ambitious dreams. But recently, the men returned to College in their 25th reunion. And it goes on to say that they were different. And the reason they were different was one kid, one of the kids, when he was young, got a subscription to the Wall Street Journal, and the other one didn't. And the one who did was significantly more successful. This ad ran for decades.

[Alex]

28 years.

[Sam Parr]

For 28 years.

[Alex]

28 years.

[Co-host]

Ran in print.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, like.

[Alex]

And drove over $2 billion in revenue.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. And I actually stole this. So at the Hustle, we had this publication that was 300 a year called Trends, and I just. Just blatantly ripped it off.

[Co-host]

Twisted 3%, huh? You probably, like, twisted it like 3%.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, I like, modernized it, but I was pretty, like, mercilessly copying it, and it crushed it for us. We made a lot of money.

[Alex]

What are some of the things that you read this. That people could walk away from?

[Sam Parr]

Story, story, story, story. A lot of people are afraid to add stories in their. When they're trying to sell stuff with copywriting because they think it's going to make it too long. There's no such thing as too long, just too boring. And the best thing to make something interesting is to make it a story. Everything has to be a story. And a story has a beginning in the middle and the end with a little bit of tension in there. Yeah.

[Alex]

What are some things that you add into those stories to create tension?

[Sam Parr]

Well, like the hero's journey a little bit. Like, for example, in this case, this story is the hero's journey. The hero's. The boy who ended up being successful. And the guide, the one who saves him, is the Wall Street Journal. And so a good brand positions themselves as the guide. And the hero of the story is your customer. And so, you know, this boy was in college. He was lost. But then something happened and he overcame and became the hero and it was reading the Wall Street Journal that guided him to see where the light is.

[Co-host]

And even, even I think in the hero's journey, there's always like the return to the origin or there's always like that stage where the hero returns back and that's kind of like he sees his body at the original place where, you know, they had met before.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. So that's a pretty effective one. A lot of people don't like using stories because they think it's going to be too long. But this ad, if you're watching this and you have something that can be sold, like, just copy that.

[Alex]

Well, I feel like the story's almost something that we're, we're losing now a bit. Right. Like, and it's. I feel like in two ways it's more important than ever because of AI. And then on the other end, because of platforms like Meta, the stories don't really exist on. In an ad library.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, but you made an ad for me that fucking crushed it. And it was a story.

[Alex]

Understood? Understood, yes. But at the same time, that's. That's one out of ten.

[Co-host]

What was that at?

[Sam Parr]

It was the story about how basically there was, when I was selling my company, the Hustle, there was a distinct moment where there was like a meeting with me and like 14 people and it was like seven lawyers and seven accountants on HubSpot's end. And they were like asking me questions and I was like, what the fuck am I doing here? Like, I should feel successful right now, but I feel like way overwhelmed. And that's when I like, needed a group of peers that I wish I had to like, help me sell my business. And that's one of the reasons why we started Hampton.

[Alex]

It was very much like founder story, but then putting in the hero's journey a bit. Whereas, like, if Sam had Hampton, then he would have been in a completely different position. So like, it started off with like, this is Sam. Sam's about to make some life changing money.

[Sam Parr]

But.

[Alex]

And then it goes into like he's in this scenario where he's kind of

[Co-host]

hit all these lawyers little, but therefore.

[Sam Parr]

Right.

[Co-host]

Because I mean, there's the Trey Parker, like, South park stuff where that's also a really good storytelling mechanism. And then there's sad.

[Sam Parr]

The comments make fun of me though, because I said in my 20s and I don't look like I'm in my 20s now.

[Alex]

Oh.

[Sam Parr]

And they think that I'm like describing it now.

[Alex]

My biggest thing is like, I struggle reading a lot of the ads that are on Meta now because it lacks the depth that you are going into. And I feel like it's almost created that kind of habit where everything needs to be two sentences as an example. Everything needs to be very short.

[Sam Parr]

Short.

[Co-host]

A lot of the incentives are just to, like, shove the benefits in your face.

[Sam Parr]

Yes. Right.

[Co-host]

Like, hey, you person who experiences this problem, like, we have this solution. Something that we do a ton is like the concept of a failed solution as well. So you want to like, absolve the viewer of guilt. It's like, hey, you tried to solve this problem with your stress, but it didn't work. That's not your fault. You just didn't have the right ingredient, you know, like, you just didn't have this specific mechanism. And I feel like that's another kind of like, hey, you know, maybe you didn't feel super confident in that business meeting. It's not your fault. You just didn't have the right peers.

[Sam Parr]

That's pretty good.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Alex]

The thing that I've done with short form to get exceptionally well is copy work. I tell everybody that I learned that from you. Where I'll transcribe different scripts or transcribe different videos.

[Sam Parr]

Copy work is game changing. Do you know what copy work is?

[Co-host]

Yeah, you just write it down.

[Sam Parr]

Oh, my God. It's like the greatest thing ever. I used it for everything.

[Co-host]

I guess we should probably explain what it is.

[Alex]

Yeah, I will in a second. So, like, but I'll set context where my first million view video on. On Instagram, specifically, like, I was getting stuck at. Every video was getting like a hundred, 150, 200,000 views. And I'm like, okay, this is good. But of course, like, everybody wants to kind of get that million view video. I did a bunch of copy work, shifted my, my script based off of everything that it did in the copy work. That video out the gate got 2 million views, right? And it was. It was literally two days of me just like, okay, let me get. I got like five good scripts or five videos that all had millions and millions of views. And I saw elements like you were just saying, okay, they. They added a transition word, you know, right here. So it was like. But then this happened, and then, therefore, this happened. And then I'm gonna create some tension here so that they're gonna. And what I was looking at as well is like, I was looking at the retention graph, seeing where people dropped off. So if everybody was dropping off at the 12 second mark, then I was like, okay, here's where I'm going to introduce Some new tension, right? Or a curiosity gap. And like, those elements that I learned from doing copy work literally shifted the performance of my videos. What is copy work? How do you do it, and what are the benefits?

[Sam Parr]

So copy work. The best way to explain it would be if. Do you know how to play any instrument? Okay, so if I said, alex, here's a piano.

[Alex]

I played the drums a long time ago, okay?

[Sam Parr]

But let's say you didn't know how to play the piano, and I sat you down on the piano and I said, have at it. Go write a hit song. Talk soon. It would be impossible, right? Like, you can't, like, write a song that way instead. And we've mastered how to teach people instruments within one year. If you practice two hours a day, you can be a phenomenal musician. And the way that we teach people to play instruments is you learn Jingle Bells by copying it. And then you learn maybe Happy Birthday. And then a little bit more complicated, a little bit more copy. And then eventually your teacher will be like, hey, you like rock and roll? Let's learn some Foo Fighter songs. Or like a Green Day song. And then you're like, oh, I like that. I'm like, let's play a Lady Gaga song. I kind of like this song. Let's play Nirvana. I don't know. And you start, like, playing all this stuff, and you see the rules of how other and the texture of how other people do it. Then you're like, you know what? I like a little bit of this, I like a little bit of that, and I like a little bit of this. I'm going to combine it because I've noticed that my favorite things, this is the pattern they follow. So I'm going to steal that. Steal this. Steal this. Copywork is. You could use it for anything. But in regards to just writing, it's when you find writing that you love, and even not writing you love, but writing that's regarded, generally speaking, as good, and you copy it word for word. You sit down for an hour, and you and I did this for months.

[Alex]

You did this with the boron letters, didn't you?

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Is that the boron letters? Yeah, I did it with the boron letters. I did it with the Great Gatsby. I did it with SNL scripts. I did it with all types of shit.

[Co-host]

Now, y' all already know. We are super skeptical on this show about most AI tools promising the world. They have flashy demos, huge promises, and ultimately underdeliver. But I do have to tell you about one that has blown me away and saved my team countless hours of time. And that's Rich Panel. Imagine a 24.7customer support engine that handles all of your tickets seamlessly, escalates anything requiring human intervention. And here's the best part. Upsells your customers in the process. Their onboarding process is frankly one of the craziest things I've ever seen. You input your brand and within 15 minutes it has full context on the latest, drops product information and plugs into all of your apps. That's not even to mention the cost savings. They're like three times more affordable than their competitors. I couldn't recommend this enough. So if you're a brand looking to turn support into an asset, go check out richpanel.com and tell them we sent you. Do you think the SNL scripts helped you get funnier?

[Sam Parr]

Well, I'm not funny, so no. But helped me get funnier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so like. But you could, because that's.

[Co-host]

I feel like people are always like, how do I learn humor?

[Sam Parr]

It would 100% work if you just copy to other people, right? And so, like, for example, I like, got into like hip hop one summer and I like, I was like, how does Kanye do this beat? And so I literally would just like, recreate the beat and I'm like, oh, cool. I know how to do it now. That's kind of cool. Little 808. Yes. And you, like, you like, learn exactly how that works. And that works for writing, but it works for anything. Anything that you want to develop good taste in. That's the number one thing to do, is just to blindly copy until you find the rules of the language that you're trying to speak.

[Co-host]

And it's super important to write it down, right? Because like, that kind of actually needs to be. Prints it in your brain.

[Alex]

You feel it? Yeah, it's different.

[Co-host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Parr]

You. You have to. You have to like, feel the texture. Actually, there's science that shows you remember things more by being physical than typing.

[Alex]

And even in therapy, like, that's why they have you write things down, because it's almost like you can transform based off the things that you write. Right? Like, so if you're going through something, you could write down, like how you're. You're getting better.

[Sam Parr]

This is my five year journal. I love this thing. You know what this is? I can't open it because I have writing in it and people will see it. But every single. Well, here, let me find a page that I. There's a page I haven't done so this is 7:30. So what's that? July 30th. So year one, year two, year three, year four, year five. So most days, obviously you saw I don't do it. But, like, most days I'm writing, like, an entry on how I feel that day. Then I could see, like, how I felt that day the year before. Yeah. And so, like, writing things down, like, has changed my life. It's been a very. This is a cool tool.

[Co-host]

Definitely do that.

[Alex]

I like how it's structured.

[Sam Parr]

It's awesome.

[Co-host]

It's a great product, too.

[Sam Parr]

It's a great product.

[Co-host]

The aesthetic is really strong.

[Sam Parr]

I know. I wanted to, like, sell that.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Alex]

The other segment that I want to go into is I now want to give you essentially bad ads. And I want you on the spot, too.

[Sam Parr]

I'm not that good of a copywriter.

[Alex]

The people. People talk about you.

[Sam Parr]

People talk about, I think people. I'm not that good. It's just that most people are bad. You know what I mean? I'm like. I'm like a guy who knows how to play a handful of songs on his guitar at, like, a senior party. Like, and then you call me a good musician.

[Co-host]

That guy still commands the room. Let's be clear.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, he's a. I'm a dwarf among midgets.

[Co-host]

He's still the coolest guy there, though.

[Alex]

So I'm going to start with AG1, so I'll give you context. They released a supplement called agz. I don't know if you've seen it. Sleep supplement. Okay.

[Co-host]

Nightly Rest, the first new product they

[Sam Parr]

launched in, like, it's just like.

[Alex]

It's a sleep supplement. Nightly Rest is within arm's reach. AGZ combines magnesium, L theanine, and saffron to support every phase of rest without the grogginess of melatonin. Okay. The copy, then on the actual visual is the nightly drink for restorative sleep. So I'll give this to you, and I basically want you to change what you would. How you would essentially write this headline

[Sam Parr]

for an ad like this. The best ad would be proof. So it would just be a quote, like. Or it would be like a picture of someone's whoop that says before taking this. After taking this. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Transformation.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. I would think that the. The nightly drink for restorative sleep. Yeah.

[Co-host]

I mean, that's so basic.

[Sam Parr]

That's a pretty bad ad for this one. I would probably do a before and after, and I wouldn't even show the product.

[Alex]

So just a transformation of somebody being exhausted, looking exhausted.

[Sam Parr]

In a sleep score for supplements, there's proof. The second way you could take it

[Alex]

is can you put that into like an actual headline for, for somebody that doesn't understand like what you mean by proof? Because I'm guessing it's like 93% of people are now sleeping.

[Sam Parr]

I think it's sleeping eight hours.

[Co-host]

It's, it's like I almost didn't wake up for my little one or something like that. You know, it's like speak to who

[Sam Parr]

the person is and it depends who they're targeting. But I can give you an example of an ad that I would do for this person following the ADA method that would be educational. So I would say so I don't know anything about sleep. So all the facts that I'm going to say I'm making up ADA method

[Co-host]

is attention, interest, desire, action.

[Sam Parr]

There's a scientific reason why after the age of 35, 75% of men wake up between 2 and 3am okay, so that's going to be my attention. Attention.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Then the interest and desire. The interest is going to be. You know the feeling when you're sleeping perfectly fine and you wake up and you're not sure if you have to go pee or what's going on. And for some reason for the past five years you just thought this is age. You just thought that this was normal and I should accept this. And then you get them to desire. You say the truth is, is that the reason you feel this way is because you lacked vitamin D. Haven't you noticed that you, you almost always get this way during winter time? Yeah. Because the world that we live in, it's a lot less. I don't know if it's true. I don't know. I just think about this. It's a lot less sunny than it was before or you're spending your days inside. And so the reason why you wake up like blue light or something, it's not your fault. It's because you simply just don't have enough vitamin D. The good news is that that the good news is that this is easy to fix.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Sam Parr]

Which is taking more vitamin D. Now a lot of vitamin D out there doesn't get absorbed because it's just made in bad ways. Not our vitamin d. We've spent 10 years and $100 million sourcing the best stuff and then anyway that would be like probably inject some soft agz.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Like that would be like the trusted

[Co-host]

by a hundred thousand dads just like you. Yeah. Like some social proof.

[Sam Parr]

So that's like an educational story I would tell.

[Alex]

That's very good.

[Sam Parr]

That was very good.

[Alex]

But even doing that, like you did go through a hero's journey like that entire time.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, that was just telling a story. But like that would be a really. That would probably be a pretty good ad. No, everything I just said was fake. I don't know if it was.

[Co-host]

I think what was like something that I've talked about a lot when like training creators is that was a Trojan horse.

[Alex]

Right.

[Co-host]

Like you basically bury the product so far deep into the story because you

[Sam Parr]

want to follow that slippery slide.

[Co-host]

You like build that desire for a long time. And then most people, I mean that ad just throws the product at you immediately. It's this restorative drink for you. Yeah, daily. Daily restorative drink. It's like they haven't built any desire. You know, there's no real reason to actually believe.

[Alex]

Well, there's a, the copyrighting rule as well where it's like you're trying to get people to say yes, like very, very early. Right. So I say a specific line. Like don't you always notice that you wake up?

[Sam Parr]

Is it frustrating why you like why suddenly at the age of 35 you can't sleep for more than three hours straight in the night and you have to wake up to go like you'd

[Alex]

like kind of head nod, right? You're like yes.

[Sam Parr]

And then you'd say like, well did you know that's a recent phenomenon? It's not always been that way.

[Co-host]

Yeah, Peak dance.

[Sam Parr]

And then like the reason it's that way is because you again make it.

[Alex]

And you also want to put that like all that at the beginning as like as early as possible into, into the copy. The other one that I want you to do is there's one from Caraway designed with clean materials like ceramic coated glass. Carway. Food storage helps you store more and stress less. Your storage can do better. Another terrible.

[Co-host]

So they're like a non toxic cookware.

[Sam Parr]

Great. Okay, again I'm going to make up all the details. If I had to write this from scratch, I would use Claude and like find. I would like ask it.

[Co-host]

Yeah, get like stats. Ye.

[Sam Parr]

Did you know that there's more E. Coli in your, in your Tupperware container than there is your toilet bowl?

[Co-host]

It's so good.

[Sam Parr]

You see a lot of people don't realize this, but E. Coli comes from rotten chicken and rotten chicken sticks inside of. What's Tupperware usually made out of? I don't know.

[Co-host]

Plastic?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, plastic. And so the and plus when you microwave it. Oh my God. Yeah.

[Co-host]

It gets even deeper.

[Sam Parr]

It creates a toxic waste. So you think so or, or the headline could actually be imagine, Imagine storing your food in the toilet bowl.

[Alex]

That is such a good headline.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Imagine storing your food in the toilet bowl because that's exactly what you're doing. There's more E. Coli and one year old Tupperware container, the plastic one year old Tupperware container than there is your own toilet bowl. And then you like explain like.

[Co-host]

Yeah, luckily for you.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, yeah. Like that my friend, is why glass is better.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

You know, that's what I would do.

[Alex]

That's so good. But that goes back to the idea of like punching somebody in the face with that first sentence.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. And I bet you I could find out the truth about like, like here would be another one. If I had like a kid's clothing company. I would say, is this advice for

[Co-host]

Sean, no free game.

[Sam Parr]

I would say, would you put your kids milk in a plastic cup and microwave it until the cup started melting? Of course not. But that's exactly what you're doing when you're buying them polyester pajamas and putting it in the dryer. That's why you want to have all natural organic cotton.

[Alex]

Do you think it's key to put like almost frame something else that is extremely visual like you just did?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. So for example, if I was just

[Co-host]

like a clear obvious. No.

[Sam Parr]

If I was going to tell you movie, movie popcorn has 150 grams of fat, that means nothing. But if I filled this cup up with 150 grams of fat, or showed you like a brick of fat and be like, you see this? That's how much fat is in one large popcorn. You want that? Yeah.

[Co-host]

It's like the deconstructed coke bottle. They'll be like, this much of your coke is sugar and It'll be like 40% of the entire bottle.

[Sam Parr]

Do you, do you think about like

[Co-host]

objections when you're copyright.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. You know who, you know who does it the best. Have you ever seen the 8 mile?

[Co-host]

Like the Eminem movie?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, yeah. The best scene is when they're like freestyle rapping and he's like about to get annihilated by these guys. And he's like, yeah, I am white. My mom is trashy. I am white trash. My mom did have sex with this guy. Yeah, I got beat up by this guy. And then they're like, I do have

[Alex]

a friend named Cheddar Bob who shoots

[Sam Parr]

at himself with his gun. Yeah. And then the Guys are like, shit, I can't say anything.

[Alex]

You just ruined my entire rant.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. So I do think that whenever we write copy, I do think of objections. So I'll often say, like, I know what you're thinking. Who's this person? Why can't I even trust them? Or I know what you're thinking, I don't need this now. Like, I always, I'll ask those questions, like, in the writing. Yeah, all the time.

[Alex]

And then are you more direct when you're, you're tackling objections with like, no,

[Sam Parr]

you can have it in like FAQs.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Co-host]

Because there was a, there was this video on, on TikTok shop back in the day. It was about like these Lenovo headphones, basically.

[Sam Parr]

Lenovo, okay.

[Co-host]

And so he used, he was like, there's a rumor going around that Apple is stealing this new design for these headphones. And then he proceeds to go into like, you know, he kind of hits like a, you know the feeling like, those headphones are so uncomfortable. And then he's like, these are the most comfortable ones. I never take them off. And then the way I viewed the video and why I think it converted so well is because, okay, you've got me. You've hooked me in. I'm intrigued by your new design. But it's lenovo headphones. They're $40. I think they're probably pretty shitty. And so he proceeds to be like, the battery life on these things. Insane. Like, I haven't charged him for three weeks.

[Sam Parr]

And then he explains why, so. But why are they only $40?

[Co-host]

Exactly. And then he's like, not only that, but, you know, I accidentally wore these in the shower one time and they're totally good. He doesn't say they're waterproof. He says, I wore them in the shower. Right. And like that personal anecdote is a way of handling the objection without necessarily, like, I know what you're gonna say. You're like, these things are shitty. Like, if I just get them wet at all, they're probably gonna die. And he's like, no, I wore them in the shower.

[Sam Parr]

I think that's a really good way to handle it. What do you have a Harley one?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

What's that one?

[Alex]

Okay. The reason I'm bringing this one up is because when you look at old vintage Harley ads or, and, or how they were positioned, it was, it was more so built around his eye. Every Harley ad that they're running now is like, just about how much they could save by getting pre qualified. So I'd Want what? I almost want you to.

[Sam Parr]

That doesn't mean it's a bad ad. Like, it could be, like, someone's super high intent. Yeah. But I think there's.

[Alex]

There's a way of structuring it where, like, you can put pricing into the sentence and almost make it, like, still very desirable, but it's more built around the desire. And then, like, it's almost a bonus that it's, you know, X amount of dollars a month.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

I mean, it's the bottom of funnel.

[Alex]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

I would probably do something. I'm like. I mean, I love, like, facts and, like, research, so I would probably do, like, people who have experiences are X more likely to be happy than people who just buy things. Thankfully, this is both, like. And you. And therefore save a little money. Two for one. Yeah. I'd probably go something in that route because that's how I've. I've always just my justified. I have. There's my motorcycle right there. I always justify them of saying I'm purchasing an experience, and experiences make you happier. I feel like I'm a dancing monkey here. You got to, like, show me ads, and I got to come up with something clever. I've come up with two clever ones. I don't know how many more I have in me.

[Co-host]

I mean, was that not a third?

[Alex]

That was a third. That was a third.

[Co-host]

That was definitely a third.

[Alex]

How do you think about infusing humor or, like, personality into. Into the ads?

[Sam Parr]

I don't think it works for every brand, but I think if it's part of your brand, I think that humor is probably one of the easiest ones to use to sell.

[Alex]

Would you use it in Hampton?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. Like, if you look at our About Us page, we have humor. You read our About Us page? Yeah. It's supposed to be funny. Yeah. I like doing humor. I actually think we did do more of it, but at the Hustle, we had humor. We had a really famous welcome email that was quite popular.

[Co-host]

I feel like y' all are very lean into humor.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. And I wasn't the funny one. We hired really funny people. Yeah, we had. We had a lot of really funny people. Like one of the. Yeah, with a ton. We had ones who you don't even know. And we had headlines, like, one time, Sofi. You know Sofi?

[Co-host]

Yeah, the bank.

[Sam Parr]

They. The. The storyline was like, the CEO, like, touched a woman or did something. It was a bad sex thing. And the headline. And it wasn't bad enough where we couldn't make fun of it. Like, I think he like said something inappropriate. I don't think he touched. I think he said something. And we said so fi. More like so fucked. And we had like, we had really good headlines that we would use. I think the New York Post does really good.

[Co-host]

Yeah, they do. They are the best at it. I mean like the next day after anything happens, you just know the Post is going to filet somebody.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, it's pretty good. So no, I do think humor's quite

[Alex]

good for anybody that's trying to become a better copywriter. What would kind of, what roadmap would you copy work?

[Sam Parr]

Without a doubt for six months. Just find like, just Google like best ads or like. Yeah, I would start with ads, but then like, like most effective or like most top selling or top selling, like American short stories. And then like it could be like if you want to be funny, you'd find like best stand up comedy jokes or best SNL bits or most famous TV scenes, things like that. Whatever is like critically acclaimed or popular for whatever reason in the genre that you want to do. But you spend literally three to six months. I call it Copy hour. I would do it every hour for six months.

[Alex]

Would you do that based off kind of like the skill sets? Like if you're, if you're looking at a comedian, it's like, okay, delivery. I'm going to learn delivery here.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, you want. For, yeah, for that you'd want to learn timing. But yeah, just whichever thing I want to be at. I would find like what, what's to consider the, the handful of classics. And then even if you want to get good at video editing, you then you go and you try to recreate a shot. Or if you want to do songs, you like recreate the song. Or for example, if you want to get good at design, you find websites that you like and you literally make them on Canva.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Have you ever had like a, like a swipe file of copywriting books? Like all the, like all these ones that we're looking at?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

You've used that as like a lead magnet before.

[Sam Parr]

As a lead magnet?

[Co-host]

Yeah, just like something because I mean, I feel like you could be like, these are my top 15 copywriting books.

[Sam Parr]

No, I've never done that. But that's a really good idea. I should do that because I've read a ton.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I was going to say like, this is just like, it's very.

[Sam Parr]

These are the most popular ones. I mean these are the ones I talk about all the time. But there's a bunch.

[Alex]

These are. These Are the pre acquisition books. It's all copy. Post acquisitions. Denim.

[Co-host]

Go up one more. It's the contemporary Japanese architecture.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. And skateboarding magazines. Grab those Thrasher magazines.

[Alex]

I did. I was actually looking.

[Sam Parr]

I steal so many. So the reason I have all these magazines is I just steal ideas from them. And I work in the tech world, and so I know that not a lot of people are going to be reading Thrasher or this is like an old JFK junior Magazine. That's the first edition, I guess. Yeah.

[Co-host]

That thing's probably appreciated a million percent since Love Story.

[Sam Parr]

Joe, my partner, bought this for me two years ago because I love the Kennedys. Yeah. And it's the first edition of. It's worth a thousand dollars now. He got it for 30 bucks. But I steal so many funny things from Thrasher.

[Alex]

They were making fun of me yesterday because we popped out of. We went to Amelie on d'. Or. We left there and I was like, I need to instantly go to the magazine shop. And I bought like six, seven different magazines. Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

It's still so much stuff.

[Alex]

I'm like, you guys don't understand how good the copy, how good the imagery is in all of these.

[Sam Parr]

This one's Popeye. There's a reason why this is cool. It's backwards. And this magazine is all in Japanese, by the way. I can't even read anything.

[Alex]

The Japanese one I bought yesterday is all.

[Sam Parr]

But I have a subscription. I've been a subscriber to these for years.

[Co-host]

Isn't there another. There's like, a new magazine company trying to do it right. Haven't you talked about it before? There was a cool arena.

[Sam Parr]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a tech thing.

[Co-host]

Yeah. They were trying to.

[Sam Parr]

I don't want to read business anymore. I just like to read other stuff. I got to find places to scale from.

[Co-host]

A lot of people are saying, like, the best way to unlock your ability to write good original ideas is to read more fiction.

[Sam Parr]

I read a lot of fiction.

[Alex]

She's like, read this headline out of the gate. First page I turned to, he looked like Dale Earnhardt and smelled like Bo by a bonfire.

[Sam Parr]

You immediately know I steal so much stuff from these things.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

Thrasher has really good writing.

[Co-host]

How long have they been in publication?

[Sam Parr]

Like, for 30 years, probably.

[Alex]

The one thing you don't know about Sam is he great copywriter. He'll do a kickflip right over this.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. Boy shreds the gnar even at the age of 36.

[Co-host]

Have you seen this guy, Jimmy Sundays?

[Sam Parr]

No.

[Co-host]

You gotta.

[Sam Parr]

Is he a 36 year old who can shred?

[Co-host]

No, no, certainly not. He's like a 23 year old, like surfer bro who walks up to like random girls and he'll be like, what's up? Fine. Shit. And then he'll be like, if I land this kickflip, you gotta give me your number.

[Sam Parr]

And I don't have those skills.

[Co-host]

He just hits it on rep immediately. I think you would geek out if you like looked up his page.

[Alex]

Well, Sam, I appreciate you making time for us. I know you. You have a crazy podcast scheduled this week.

[Sam Parr]

I had one this morning with HubSpot and they, they pay me every month to host mfm and sometimes when they

[Co-host]

call, I gotta say, you do have to say yes.

[Sam Parr]

Yes, sir.

[Alex]

Yeah, I think what got it over the line was I posted something on my story. I was like, hey, who. What content do you want to see from me? And somebody literally said, you and Sampon. And I was. He had just texted me like 15.

[Sam Parr]

For the record, Alex worked at the Hustle. I think he started as an intern. I don't remember exactly.

[Alex]

No, don't try me. That's not.

[Sam Parr]

You were 24.

[Alex]

Yeah, I came out on social.

[Sam Parr]

Where did you work before? I had my own agency and he was a kid and then he did the gym. What was it called?

[Co-host]

Collective.

[Sam Parr]

Collective. And he like started filming some stuff and I'm like, you did that? That's really good. I didn't know you could do that. And then he started doing his own social and I was like, you did that? That was really good. So, yeah, you built some cool stuff. Congratulations.

[Alex]

Thank you, thank you. I appreciate you jumping on, making time and giving all the game that you. That you typically do.

[Sam Parr]

It's not that much, but hopefully someone will enjoy it.

[Co-host]

I think people will find that super valuable.

[Sam Parr]

Where.

[Co-host]

Where can they support you?

[Sam Parr]

They can't.

[Co-host]

Okay. We have some people that are qualified for Hampton.

[Alex]

Well, you have a podcast that's on the come up. We'll put you on.

[Sam Parr]

Please do. I would like to get word out. We have this new thing called mfm. We.

[Co-host]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Sam Parr]

I started doing. I started doing Instagram in December.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

And I've been going hard. It's been really embarrassing to be a 36 year old guy talking to a camera, but find me there.

[Co-host]

Are you enjoying it?

[Sam Parr]

Some days I do like it. I think I have 102,000 followers, so I've grown 50,000 since December. I think I started with 50. I don't remember how many I started with. But it's pretty fun. The young guys who've grown up with, they are just, they're different. It's like competing against. It's like competing. It's a Jamaican 100 meter runner. Like they're just born different. Like the young guys who are good at it, you know, they just like.

[Co-host]

It's very like ingrained in them.

[Alex]

Like it's in their DNA.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

It's been so uncomfortable. I have to talk to a camera.

[Co-host]

They like vlogging too, right? Like they, they grew up making those videos on Snapchat, on everything on their iPhone.

[Alex]

Every single time I try to hit like this, the walk and talk, I can't do it.

[Sam Parr]

What's your most amount of views on a video?

[Alex]

Two point something mil.

[Sam Parr]

I just got a four million the other day.

[Alex]

What about your dad's onion?

[Sam Parr]

My dad's onions.

[Co-host]

A 4 million is big time.

[Sam Parr]

Out of 4 million? Yeah, that was pretty huge. And I knew it was gonna take off right when I published.

[Alex]

How many, how many followers did that drive? Probably 20,000.

[Sam Parr]

Maybe 15 or 12.

[Alex]

Oh, okay.

[Co-host]

Yeah, it was back in the day, maybe 30.

[Sam Parr]

But yeah, it was, it drove a lot. Let's see.

[Alex]

Let's check out the analytics on it.

[Co-host]

You gotta get on TikTok, bro.

[Sam Parr]

I hate China. So look, 4 million. The China government. I hate the Chinese government.

[Co-host]

CCP. The CCP.

[Sam Parr]

Keep that in there, Keep that in there. The Chinese people are cool with me. Yeah, China I don't like. So 4 million followers or how many. 4 million views. How many followers did I get from it?

[Alex]

Roughly 10,000. Those are people that straight clicked follow on the real. Like that's a count for the people that. Yeah, so it's a little different.

[Sam Parr]

It was just a story about my dad, who's an onion salesman, and he like just sells $10 million a year with the money.

[Co-host]

And you wrote it, you wrote the, the copy behind the video and everything?

[Sam Parr]

Oh, there was no writing, bro. Yeah, I was at my dad's house or my dad's office.

[Alex]

It's like a very raw video.

[Sam Parr]

I was at my dad's office. My dad's an onion salesman. So basically my father started a produce stand on the side of the road. Like a fruit stand? Yeah. And it became a brokerage, which basically means he calls a farmer and he buys $1 million worth of onions and then he sells it to Walmart for a little bit more money and then gets 1.002.

[Co-host]

Or like.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, like nothing. Like he sells like $15 million a year with onions. But like, it's like a arbitrage. It's like a very tiny. So he doesn't make that like $15 million a year. Right. Which the comments were like, oh, your dad's like, rich. I'm like, no, the margins are small. Yeah. But anyway, I was at his office and it's just him and this woman who works for him he met at a bar. She was the bartender of his favorite bar. And I go, I go, here's how my dad sells $10 million a year with onions. And it's just, he's just sitting there with his desk and he's got two like, phones and he's got a computer that strictly is used for watching YouTube videos. And then he has a calculator here and he just makes calls. Yeah, can I buy this thing? All right, cool. Like, adds it up, like, hey, you want to buy these things? Cool. And then his coworker who is in the other office, he let her have like a big pack and play in her office so she could bring her kid to the office. And we're like, we're like, here's his accounting department and that's the calculator. Here's like the call center. It's like his two phones. And then like, here's the daycare. Just a pack and play.

[Co-host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Parr]

And it went viral.

[Alex]

Skip rate, only 20%, which is so.

[Co-host]

Yeah, 80% of people watch the.

[Sam Parr]

How much does that mean? What does that mean?

[Co-host]

It's like an 83 second stop rate. So 80% of people saw your hook and said, I'm in.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Alex]

At the 3 second mark, 85% of people continued watching, which is insane. It's actually an insane number. Yeah, you don't drop below 50% until 33 seconds in which the video is

[Sam Parr]

only 45 seconds long, which is wild.

[Alex]

Yeah, it's 50.

[Co-host]

So like 50% of those 4 million people watch the whole thing.

[Alex]

Like, I always know if, like my, if I'm looking at my skip rate, if it's above 50% at the three, three second mark, I'm like, okay, this

[Sam Parr]

is going to be percent after five.

[Alex]

Yeah. And I mean, looking at these numbers, it's what's average watch time, 35 seconds. Yeah, that's fucking crazy.

[Sam Parr]

And then what I did was I made an ad out of that video. So this is one of our better performing, crushing.

[Co-host]

I mean, you could also just like whitelist that one from your account.

[Sam Parr]

Well, what I did was watch this. We're at my father's business.

[Alex]

This is. That's him.

[Sam Parr]

He sells over $10 million of onions a year. You have to see how he does it. This video got 3 million views. And if you're a business owner, you're going to understand why. Watch this. My post went viral in the entrepreneur community because it was frame breaking. Basically, people think that a $10 million or $50 million a year business should look a certain way. And they see this and they are encouraged because there's really hundreds of different ways that you can get to where you want to go and build a huge company. And this is one of the reasons why thousands of founders get a lot of value in Hampton because they're able to see these frame breaking conversations and meet these frame breaking people every single day. Some quick CTA too. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Sam Parr]

And that's one of our best heads. Pretty funny, right? God bless America.

[Co-host]

God bless America.

[Alex]

America.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah. Is that Ralph?

[Co-host]

Yes. Or ebay? Yeah, dude. Thank you.

[Sam Parr]

All right. God bless you guys. Thank you so much.

[Alex]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Sam Parr]

Peace.