The Art of World Building: Late Checkout

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Art of World Building: Late Checkout" Sweat Equity – Marketing Examined Hosts: Alex Garcia & Brian Blum Release Date: July 22, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Sweat Equity, hosts Alex Garcia and Brian Blum delve into the sophisticated marketing strategy of world building, using the brand Late Checkout as their primary case study. The conversation navigates through the intricacies of creating immersive brand universes, contrasting traditional marketing tactics with more holistic, long-term brand development approaches.

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The Concept of World Building in Marketing

Alex introduces the idea of world building as a transformative approach in marketing, emphasizing its depth compared to conventional methods. He articulates, “World building is something that we're just now doing in marketing, I would say, more than anything” (22:47). This sets the stage for an in-depth exploration of how brands can create expansive, engaging universes that resonate with consumers on multiple levels.

Case Study: Late Checkout

Setting and Storytelling

Late Checkout serves as a quintessential example of effective world building. The brand centers its narrative within the confines of a hotel, creating a consistent and concrete setting for all its campaigns. Alex notes, “If you check out Late Checkout, the first thing is there's this concrete setting in this concrete world that they're trying to invite you into. And that setting is it always takes place within a hotel” (06:05). This uniform backdrop allows for versatile storytelling across various campaigns.

Character Integration

A standout feature of Late Checkout is the integration of characters, particularly the hotel manager, who acts as the central touchpoint for all brand interactions. Alex highlights, “They have their manager as like the main contact person for everything that they do” (09:20). This personalizes the brand, making interactions feel more authentic and engaging.

Art Direction and Consistency

The brand’s art direction is meticulously crafted to reflect a blend of "beautiful elegance and sporadic chaos," mirroring the organized chaos of artists (15:30). Each visual element, from photoshoots to video content, maintains consistency with the hotel's aesthetic, ensuring that every piece of content reinforces the brand’s universe.

Physical vs. Digital Presence

Late Checkout transcends digital boundaries by creating physical experiences tied to its brand universe. For instance, partnering with hotels to transform lobbies into storefronts for characters like "the Painter" allows consumers to experience the brand firsthand (26:05). These tangible interactions complement the digital narrative, fostering a more immersive brand experience.

Comparing Marketing Strategies: World Building vs. Traditional Approaches

Short-term Metrics vs. Long-term Engagement

The hosts critique traditional marketing strategies that focus heavily on short-term metrics, such as impression-based campaigns and promo code utilization. Brian argues, “People have gotten so warped in their perception... it's more dopamine hit” (17:03). In contrast, world building prioritizes long-term relationships and brand loyalty by creating memorable and meaningful interactions.

The Role of Brand Guidelines in World Building

Alex envisions the evolution of brand guidelines into comprehensive “world building guides” that encompass visual identity, character development, and experiential touchpoints (30:00). This shift underscores the importance of a cohesive and expansive brand universe over isolated branding elements.

Personal Experiences and Agency Insights

Client Selection and Agency Growth

Both hosts share their experiences with client selection, emphasizing the importance of aligning with brands that exhibit enthusiasm and a commitment to innovative marketing strategies. Alex recounts a challenging experience with a client resistant to progressive marketing tactics, highlighting the necessity of partner alignment for successful world building (19:05).

Sustainable Brand Development

Brian adds that investing in world building fosters sustainable brand growth by enhancing lifetime customer value. He states, “It's about investing in world building, with your investment in content, with your investment in partnerships, drops, whatever. That's how you build a sustainable brand” (27:47). This approach contrasts sharply with transactional relationships prevalent in traditional marketing models.

Concluding Thoughts on World Building as a Sustainable Marketing Strategy

The episode underscores the transformative potential of world building in creating lasting and meaningful brand-consumer relationships. By crafting immersive universes, brands like Late Checkout not only differentiate themselves in crowded markets but also cultivate die-hard fans who contribute to organic growth and sustained success.

Alex encapsulates the essence by encouraging brands to reverse their approach: “If you are going to world build, the first exercise that I would recommend that you do is take a 15 second scene from your world, plug it into a movie. Does it fit into Talladega Nights? Does it fit into Interstellar?” (22:47). This metaphor highlights the importance of coherence and richness in brand storytelling, akin to the depth found in cinematic worlds.

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Notable Quotes

• Alex Garcia [06:05]: “If you check out Late Checkout, the first thing is there's this concrete setting in this concrete world that they're trying to invite you into. And that setting is it always takes place within a hotel.”

• Brian Blum [17:03]: “People have gotten so warped in their perception... it's more dopamine hit.”

• Alex Garcia [22:47]: “World building is something that we're just now doing in marketing, I would say, more than anything.”

• Brian Blum [27:47]: “It's about investing in world building, with your investment in content, with your investment in partnerships, drops, whatever. That's how you build a sustainable brand.”

• Alex Garcia [30:00]: “If you are going to world build, the first exercise that I would recommend that you do is take a 15 second scene from your world, plug it into a movie.”

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Time Stamps

• 06:05 – Introduction to Late Checkout and its setting
• 09:20 – Role of the hotel manager in Late Checkout
• 15:30 – Discussion on art direction and chaos in brand visuals
• 17:03 – Critique of traditional marketing metrics
• 19:05 – Personal experiences with challenging clients
• 22:47 – Importance of world building in marketing
• 26:05 – Integration of physical and digital brand experiences
• 27:47 – Sustainable brand development through world building
• 30:00 – Evolving brand guidelines into world building guides

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This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for marketers seeking to transcend traditional strategies and embrace the holistic, immersive approach of world building. Through the exemplary model of Late Checkout, Alex and Brian illustrate how creating a cohesive and engaging brand universe can lead to enduring success and a loyal customer base.

Transcript

[A]

All right, dude. So I've been getting absolutely blasted by being a. A new homeowner for the last two weeks. Been at the house for, like, actual full days that I've lived in the house. 2. Owned the house for two weeks. 2. So first thing yesterday, my parents come into town. They just got into town last night or yesterday afternoon, right at like 12 o', clock, peak heat. AC just goes out froze. And then also needs, like, refrigerator or something like that. Easy, cool. 1300 out the window, right. Then we have to get our gas turned on because I guess, like, Belterra is like a. It's like a specific kind of community where it has different. It's not Austin electric and gas. It's like something in Belterra specifically.

[B]

You live in the Hills, bro.

[A]

I do live in the Hills. It's still Austin, though.

[B]

It's still Austin in what census?

[A]

Like, I'm on the cusp, you know what I'm saying?

[B]

Like, I think it's the expanded 2020, bro.

[A]

Like, I take a. Like a little. I take a step to my left. I might be in Dripping Springs, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But anyways, they come out, and we have to get that transferred over. They come out, they hook up the gas, but then the. The gas, like, it. For some reason, it doesn't. You have to ignite, like the. Your own water tank. And so I'm doing it. I'm trying to do it. I'm reading the instructions. It's like you have to press it, then, like, hit it every second for 90 seconds. And it's like, if you smell gas, stop. But I'm sitting there, I'm like, yo, I smell a lot of gas right now. I know what this smells like.

[B]

But you just kept pressing.

[A]

No, I was like. After the second round of 90 seconds, I was like, okay, this is feeling a little sketch. So then the guy comes today, right? This all happened this morning, by the way. Everything getting fixed was this morning, right before coming here. So gas guy comes, he looks at everything. He's like, man, there's a. Like a separation between the. The pipe and your water tank where there's carbon monoxide just, like, leaking. He's like, it could travel into the house and, you know, worse. Like, you know, he's using all the marketing tactics. Like, he's just pure. Adding just fear into me and Vanessa's eyes and is just saying, well, you have to block that up or else, like, you know, it could kill you another eleven hundred dollars. I'm like, yo, this has been 48 hours of oh, like, I mean, we. We moved into the house July 3rd, but literally we moved in next and that we ended or we stopped moving at like 11, 11:30pm next morning at 7:00am, 7:30, something like that, on a flight to London. Get back the day I get. I got back. I had. We got back at like 5, 6pm I was there that night. Next morning we had like a surprise bachelor party for John, so I had to bounce that. But, like, I haven't even been home when I am home. Bills. Fat bills. Good.

[B]

Good thing you're gainfully employed.

[A]

I know you got.

[B]

You got a. A burgeoning podcast. You got some fun clients. Are you allowed to talk about any of them?

[A]

Not yet. I would say, like, once their campaigns kick off, I. I've talked to all of them about like, letting me do behind the scenes and like some cool content when. When we go shoot.

[B]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that recently because so with Salud, you know, what we've done for them is like absolute capstone, you know, best work we've done for anybody. And Tyler listens to this podcast. The founder, CEO dude is absolutely locked in. Their team is executing at such a crazy level and they just get it right now, but they get, they get what needs to be done. And it's funny because we were talking about this before the episode. And by the way, if you're watching this on video and you see a spider just materialize on my neck, just know it's not the first one.

[A]

There's been a spider going on his computer right now.

[B]

We're just infested.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, but don't, don't freak out.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

You're on camera.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

Gotta keep up an image. Anyways, about Salud, though, it's like, it's. It's really been exciting to, you know, do some great stuff for them. But at the same time, you know, it's weird how talking about other brands that you don't work with is almost like a better way of getting eyeballs because you're not self promotional. It's like a better lead funnel to talk about other case studies than what you're doing for your brands. Like, other people have to talk about what you did for a brand for you to get love for it versus, you know, if I just like blasted out what we were doing for Salud all the time, or, you know, doing for Origamis all the time. It's like, people will be like, all right, this guy's just self promotional right now. Yeah.

[A]

I think there's a way of doing it where it's. It's super interesting. You. You almost just like interject little moments. So, like a video I made last week was this is how to. This is how to use locations to. I think it was like it was how to use locations to like, elevate your storytelling. And then I talked quickly about how, like, we were leveraging Big Ben in one of our scenes for a campaign.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it's like a quick bit, but it's more about the educational parts by like sprinkle in that. That social proof. Because, I mean, we've talked about this. I just feel like it's the only way of doing something that's one of none is obviously if like we're talking about the. That we're doing with brands and versus only doing the case studies. Because if we're only doing the case studies, then gets hijacked. Pretty. Or anybody could replicate it. Yeah. Like, nobody's going to be able to replicate what you did, what I'm doing with the actual brand that. That we're working with.

[B]

But you also want it to be clear of like, you know, like once your edge is. Is gone and you need to innovate, that's when you can talk about what you just did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I don't really want to tell people what we're doing for some of my other businesses yet because I don't really want to give that away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But in due time, you know, talk about it in December once we're already.

[A]

Yeah, once you're on to the next. The next piece.

[B]

What do you got today?

[A]

Yep. So one thing that's interesting is like a lot of the campaigns we've been. We've been working on and kind of producing and kind of why I've been traveling a lot has been centered around like these social campaigns, but social campaigns that are centered around world building and how we're building a world around a specific brand. And sometimes it's even honestly the way I've been looking at it, positioning it more so is like you're really actually building a brand universe. And then when you create social campaigns and social rollouts, like, that is the world. And like for maybe 12 to 15 posts.

[B]

You're building Solar System now, huh?

[A]

Basically does every.

[B]

Every episode. It's like we started out with like, build a setting. So world Solar System. No, but you got the brand universe.

[A]

No, but think about it.

[B]

Like, you're correct. I like it.

[A]

We were jamming with the Tim west, the Founder of Bandit. Right. And he was talking about how, like, everything, when they do it, you know, it feels like they have to build this little world. I'm like, well, it's really like you. You are really building your brand's universe. And then there's, like, there's these different worlds that can exist for a moment in time that you bring people in. And so the way that, like, we've been creating these social campaigns we've been thinking about through that lens of, okay, like, the brand universe is the. The entire experience with the brand, but if we're doing a. A campaign that's kind of, like, futuristic, and then, like, the rest of the. You know, the rest of the content that month, at the end of the month, whatever, is more so retro and vintage. Is that really the same world? No, not really. Like, those are separate worlds that you're trying to bring people into. And so that's why I've been tinkering with. With that idea more. But even then, the reason I bring that up is if there's a brand that I look at that is doing a 10 out of 10 stellar job at this, it is Late Checkout. Have you heard of them?

[B]

Just from our episode that didn't. Didn't make the cut.

[A]

Yeah. Does this feel a little deja vuish?

[B]

Just remark, just for context. Right. Yeah. I mean, people should obviously know we got to address it. We missed an episode because we recorded three in one day for y'. All. And on the last two, the audio checked out. Charles, it's okay. It's not your fault. It's kind of your fault.

[A]

It is his shot.

[B]

We lost two episodes, so we did a lot of brand audits. We did a lot of this Late Checkout thing. So this is round two. But that's where I heard about Late Checkout was the last time he told me about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll give it, like, that. Authentic reaction, though.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[B]

I got you.

[A]

Um, Late Checkout's been one of the brands that I've been studying a. A good amount. And the reason for that is when I think about world building and I think about it at the highest level, they're doing it. What I mean by that. And the different elements are. Okay. So if you check out Late Checkout, the first thing is there's this concrete setting in this concrete world that they're trying to invite you into. And that setting is it always takes place within a hotel. So it doesn't matter what they do. It doesn't matter what campaign they do. It doesn't matter what character they introduce, if it all revolves around the hotels. And so any, any photo shoot, any video shoot, like, you can tell how they're positioned within the different rooms, the different lobbies, the different settings within that, the pool, right. Like, they've done a very, very good job of it, which is one big. Because is key if you are going to World building. You have to have like this concrete setting, right? For them, it is the. The hotel. Now the cool. The thing that I like about that is every hotel has a manager, right? Like they have that person that's kind of running point. And so for late checkout, they have their manager as like the main contact person for everything that they do. So any touch point that comes from the brand is coming from the manager, which I think is. Is awesome, right? So if you hit the about page on late checkout and you read it, it's literally written as a letter to the guest. So it's like, dear guest, welcome. How are you? Please sit. We'll get you something to drink. You may have not already noticed that this is a hotel like no other. Fear not, you will have what you need, but it may not always be what you thought you needed. This certainly a place for the brave, those who dip their toe in the water before asking if it's cold, if you know what I mean. Things here, I will. Things here will adapt to you or you will adapt to them. We coexist in a rather harmonious chaos. You'll like it. Like, they just write this amazing letter to you. They introduced the character who is now the manager. They. In the next section, they're like, your room is ready. Please follow me. Right. And so the cool aspect of this and the ethos is the two founders, they used to travel a lot, right? And they would go to these hotels and they spent a good amount of money on hotels. And they never felt like there was hotels that were made for all sorts of different people, right. The diff. And when you think about a hotel, like a hotel is probably one of the only places where all sorts of people are crashing that you can have the. The. The goth person, the conservative, the liberal, the.

[B]

Well, you know, it's like, it's a really common setting for. For mystery, for like, you know, the White Lotus, for example, just came out. It's like, it's a perfect encapsulation of what you're describing. You're such a wide range of people. And I think another thing that you're speaking to that we've talked about before on this Podcast is the evolution of the customer avatar.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And how you have to be very careful about pigeonholing yourself into like speaking to a really narrow group of people. Whereas, you know, when you start to world build, you can introduce characters that come from different backgrounds to appeal to different people that might actually like your brand that you're surprised about. Like help people see themselves through this content, you know, and become more relatable that way. So.

[A]

Agreed. And that's like what their ethos kind of stems off of is the idea that there's room for anybody at the hotel. Right. Because exactly what you're saying, the customer avatar has evolved. And I would even look at it as like the customer avatar is more so looking at a lifestyle and being like, who are all the different kinds of people that live that lifestyle or want to live that lifestyle or want to be associated with that lifestyle? Like that's how I would almost look at the customer avatar now and then. Late checkout. The other thing that they do when we talk about the different kinds of people that would be at this hotel is on their nava navigation on their site. Their dropdown is literally character. So they'll introduce a character and they'll build a, a collection around that character. So one of the ones that I like that they did was called the Painter. They're actually all good, but they, for this they do a really good job of if we talk about this a lot, you know, you have a social rollout, you're going to tease it, you're going to hype it, you're going to launch and then you're going to push and pull. Like what are the for pushing and pulling? Pushing, promoting, pullings, more brand storytelling and how you're pulling people into, into the campaign. They followed that to a te when they first posted it on ig. They teased like the Painter by showing some like the, the paint brushes and some of the different strokes and like some of those different elements and started hyping it up by introducing the character they introduce as like this is the next guest that's going to be staying temporarily at the, at the hotel. And then they, they do a full like sequence of 6 to 9 posts based on the Painter, which is something we're going to talk about a little bit in the next episode where when we talk about campaigns and rollouts, I think it's, it's almost, it's imperative to start doing them through the sequence of like what is my six post movie that I'm going to tell or my nine post movie that I'm going to tell so that you, Brian, could watch it from beginning to end. Like you could look at it as a sequential story of, okay, it starts right here and it ends right here. And it's not going to get disrupted by anything else. That's key specifically for a rollout. But they do a phenomenal job of that. If you look at the art direction, what I love about the art direction is a few things. It's almost like it's a blend of like this beautiful chaos. Every picture there's always multiple things happening at once. So if it's a picture of the painter posing the bellboys in the back, like put. Pushing his bag. If it's him opening his door, then it's like the, the manager bringing him room service. If he's painting in one of the lobbies, the, the. The table is like fully spread with fruit and, and drinks and, and art, right? It's like everything is like this mix of beautiful elegance, but also add in like all this like sporadic chaos. But to me, they do that because the majority of artists are like that, right? The majority of artists are organized but chaotic. It's like, it's organized chaos, like every element of it, you know, like they will be, they will be being able to make all of their art in like this, in the, in the center of chaos. And so like they're able to tell that story with everything that they're doing for the painter. And so I love that again, anytime they drop a collection, the collection is based off of this character. And the whole goal is for people to be able to see themselves within this character, little bits and pieces of themselves within this character and attach to that individual story that they're creating for them. The other thing that they do when on the homepage, they do a full takeover on that character, you'll have above the fold that's like the. More of a hero image centered around that individual. Then you'll have a carousel, then you'll have a campaign video, right? And it's, and it's bringing that story completely to life. The other thing that I like that they did is, you know, if we're talking about true world building, there has to be some kind of level of, hey, let the people experience your world. You can't just have it live completely digitally. You have to have some kind of moments where I can physically experience it. Right? Like ald. As much as we talk about them and we talk about how they're lifestyle oriented and they're this laid back lifestyle, they're kicking it, it's like this medit, this, the fuse of Mediterranean lifestyle with like New York streets kind of mood and vibe that's all cool until it's like yo, I couldn't. Where can I experience that kind of vibe? And so they have to give you the cafe, you know what I'm saying? Because the cafe, you go into the cafe and for 10 minutes you feel that there's old school hip hop playing. There's, there's like this retro but modern cafe. Like it's all cherry wood. Like it all looks beautiful but it all still looks like it would, it would have been like a speakeasy.

[B]

It's an on ramp.

[A]

Yeah, it is an on ramp.

[B]

A lot of brands underestimate the power of an on ramp. And I can say that because we work with so many folks that either understand this, you know, new world of, of TikTok shop and organic versus not right. There's a lot of dinosaurs out there that are like, actually if I don't like convert them on the first time I see them, then it's not worth me spending money in that channel. Crazy. You know, But I mean we were talking about it before the show. It's like I'm dealing with that right now. One of these brands wanting to launch, you know, impressions based campaign organic. A bunch of bunch, a bunch of nano influencers at a fixed cost per 1,000 impressions. And, and the way they want to measure the campaign is promo code usage.

[A]

And it's like, you know, it's not 2017.

[B]

So funny you say that because I literally said this guy's stuck in 2017.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

We're all the same. It's true. Like that is not going to result in the virality that you want. You know, people don't think about that logically. They think like, oh well, I just need to be able to see the numbers. And that's like a CEO or a CMO who is responsible for like allocating capital and that's really their only job is like their personal motivation is if it doesn't show good numbers on a spreadsheet then I don't want it. There's no soul in their decisions versus, you know, oh, this is a positive experience. We, we just had 25 million positive experiences with people in the United States. I don't know how that's going to be good for your brand, but I, I would probably bet my entire net worth it's going to work. Yeah, right. Like if you just had 25 million positive situations where, you know, an influencer saying, these are how I'm going to make protein muffins. And they use your bread. Right. Like, I promise you, it's better than saying, and by the way, go, you know, go get this bread with promo code, whatever, you know. And so I just. That's. It's really interesting, man.

[A]

We just had. This is just because you got me thinking about a little 2017. We had one client, biggest nightmare of a client. You know what I'm saying? Like, and it wasn't the founder that brought us on. Great. Amazing. Dude, the team, bro, she was just.

[B]

Talking about with marketing. Examine.

[A]

Yeah. Like a brand that we were working with. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, it's not going to be markings. Oh, you know that it's not gonna be marking Examine in like.

[B]

Are you dropping that on the pod right now?

[A]

I mean, I'm not saying the actual name, but yeah, it's not gonna be marking Examine in a few weeks.

[B]

My God. But I thought people were getting a bombshell.

[A]

Seven minutes in, casual moment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, dude, nightmare of, like, a team. Like, absolutely nightmare of a team. Terrible social team, think they know everything kind of thing. They bring in this new CMO. CMO stuck in 2017.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hits us up. He's like, hey, we're cutting budgets. Honestly, it was like one of those thank God moments. Like, I'm so tired of I don't want to work with you guys, like, moving on kind of situation. And he was like, we're cutting budgets. And then they go and spend 120 racks on a commercial.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, that is crazy.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

It is crazy that you're spending six figures on a. On a commercial that probably nobody is going to see. Like, I understand that thing on cnn.

[B]

Alongside a Merrill lynch commercial and an Icy Hot.

[A]

Yeah. And then they'll all be consuming our content on ig.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, while that. Meanwhile that commercial's gone, the greatest.

[B]

The greatest advertising engine of all time is just sitting there right in front of your phone.

[A]

Insane. And like, they. They've been rolling out our content and it's been 5x all their previous content.

[B]

The same person. I'm talking about. The reason they were concerned about our. Our goal with the campaign is because they said they'd been burned by celebrities in the past. And I was like, okay, exactly. Like, that's the promo code. Like, thought track. Right. Is like, it's just promotional.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's. It's oriented around a sale rather than value. And it's like, it doesn't even compute in people's heads what type of content earns attention and therefore what that means to people when they see it and how it registers with them for later when they're making decisions. If I see a video and it's a recipe and someone says that they use, you know, a certain type of bread or they even. They don't even mention the. You know who told me this? He's so smart about it. Connor from Hexclad. He crushed it with this is they didn't care about you mentioning Hexclad. They just seeded every prominent food creator in the industry. Yeah. And so whenever it's a top down, bird's eye view shot of a pan, the hexclad pan looks beautiful. And it almost. It's such a striking design that you would notice who was a hexclad influencer and who wasn't. And they ran up like 400 million impressions for the brand like that. He's like, yeah, like, I mean, we saw a lift in retail, like quarter over quarter. Like, when we started seeding, we, like, we just did better in Costco, you know, we just did better in our retail channels. I wonder why, dude, because people saw your product more and they saw it in these channels and they were like, you know what? I could choose caraway. I've seen that hexclad pan before. My favorite cooking creator. That's a dream pan for me. I want to recreate the kitchen that I'm watching all the time. Yeah, it's like those little things, dude, it's. It's so common sense, but people have gotten so warped in their perception of, you know, where to invest.

[A]

I think part of it too is like there's all these analytical platforms that promise that they can track every single thing that, that you do every happen. I know they're all capping. They all capping, right? All of them.

[B]

I, I deal with this all the time because there's actually one singular platform that calculates the tick tock shop halo effect. And I'm look, they pissed me off, so I'm about. I would actually publicly get them. But, like, you know, they, it's like I'm looking at what their calculations are, and I'm just like, dude, the math ain't math. Like, the, the. You're stretching a lot for some of these different numbers that you're putting together. But then at the same time, like we said, CMOs love it. All these CMOs, they're like, oh, dude, you know, we're seeing brand lift here. And There. And it's like they're just getting shown a number that's not actually real, but it's just confirming a hypothesis they want, which is actually a lot of B2B sales is like just understanding how to, you know, plant a seed of an idea in someone's head, make them think like, oh, this is going to make my life easier.

[A]

That's all those analytical platforms are, dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the thing that I want people to take away from this episode is the fact that, look, if you are going to world build, the first exercise that I would recommend that you do is take a 15 second scene from your world, plug it into a movie. Does it fit into Talladega Good Nights? Does it fit into Interstellar? Does it fit into, I don't know, Alien versus Predator, doesn't matter. Plug it into space, Some kind of movie and see if it fits it. If it fits seamlessly, then you're onto something because at that point that means you have the right characters, you have the right settings, you have the right art direction, you have the right creative direction, you have all the right elements that would, that would put someone into this, into this world. Late Checkout does that where. I forgot what movie it is. It's called like the Pink. No, not the Pink Room. It's a West Anderson film where, like.

[B]

The Grand Budapest Hotel.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

What a poll. He didn't even say that on the last episode either.

[A]

No, I did it because I forgot, but it's in my notes. Dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can take Late checkout and put it into the Grand Budapest Hotel. Look at some scenes from that and then look at some of the art direction from this. Dude. It is one to one and you can see how much inspo they pull from the art direction to the lighting to like the, the just how everything is shot, the characters, all of those elements fit absolutely perfect in this. I have a reference image that I do in the, in the YouTube video. And you, like, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? And so like, for them, if that is the world that they're trying to build is one that fits in that movie. Because really what world building is like, the world building is something that we're just now doing in marketing, I would say, more than anything. But it's what movies have been doing for ever. Lord of the Rings is pure world building. Like she literally or he literally built the world first. I don't know if you ever read about this. Like, he built the world first on paper. Like drew it out and basically created the mood board of Hit the World that is, you know, what is it, the Shire or whatever. Like he built that and then wrote Lord of the Rings. Whereas we do it backwards. We launched these companies and then we're like, okay, now I'm going to try to figure out how to world build. I'm a world build backwards. Whereas you should be doing it in the inverse of Let me build this world. If I had this dream scenario that's like my one of one world that people are going to be involved in and that I want people to, to partake in love and be a part of. What does that look like? Is it a country club? Is it a bar? Is it a speakeasy? That's hidden? And you know that that was built in the 70s. Like what is that world? I'm going to build that now I'm going to start thinking about my touch points. Because if I build that and I know exactly what that is, that's going to tell me exactly how I should write copy. Yeah, that's going to tell me exactly how I should make my ads and my organic content and who the actors and actresses in my content or like influences in my content are going to be. Right. And so we do it backwards where we build and then try to world build and like, and again we should be doing the inverse. If you are going to build. If you, you know, if you, if you're starting this brand from scratch and you're kind of in like the day ones and the day nuns, like take a piece of paper or get a. I just bought like these 96 inch mood board or like foam boards to build mood boards. Get one of those 180 and the shipping's 200. So riddle me that crazy.

[B]

Riddle me. That is crazy. That's how you know you're mad because.

[A]

It'S, it's wild, dude. I'm like, how's the shipping more than the product? And build that world on there with the activities that they're doing. How are they dressed, how are they hanging? What do they do outside of this when they're, when they come to your event or they come to your, your world, what are they driving all of these things? At the end of it, you're going to have world, a world that you can build and then build your brand off of and understand how you're going to market within. So late checkout is my favorite example of a brand doing this right now because they know that they're building a world right in it two. Sorry, two elements. They know that they're building a world and so they're fine with like expressing that to people. The other thing that even why we touched on this was and we touched on ALD is the fact that for the painter they partnered with another hotel. Right. And they part when they partnered with the hotel, they turned one of the lobbies into an actual storefront. And that storefront was then the painter's like essentially studio with all of his pieces, but also his collections and. Right. And so like you could create that experience around this collection and you create like these micro moments around them. So you have to have that element as well where you bring something from digital to physical, even if it's not a permanent retail spot. You can have those moments where you do a one day pop up or you partner with a cafe and like you do something at a cafe. Right. You have to have these moments where people could be a part of that world for, you know, for an hour, for a day, whatever the case may be. So they check out one of my favorite brands, one of the favorite brands doing like an amazing job at as just world building overall.

[B]

Yeah, they've crushed it. I think the biggest stuff that is hard for people is delayed gratification in your brand. And late checkout's not very big. No, there were 50,000 followers. Maybe something like that. I remember when you brought it up, I looked them up and it was before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Surprisingly small.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But they're doing an excellent job because they are creating die hard fans. Like, like you love these guys, right? And like their merch is really cool or not merch but like line. Their drops are really cool. And what you're going to create when you do that is people that are saying like, yo, like your word of mouth multiplication factor is so much stronger when you do that. And so one of the most frustrating things when you're talking to people about their. When we run a marketing agency is something we've touched on throughout this episode is everyone's saying like, well, what is the short term impact? Right. And I, I think all these things that late checkout is doing are so long term. Like they're so investing in their, your lifetime value with them as a customer. Like you're going to remember you said the painter. Right. You're going to remember that painter skit for a long time. And that positive memory is going to be a reason you are looking forward to their drops in 2027. And so when you compound those marketing decisions over and over and over and over, Again, with your investment in world building, with your investment in content, with your investment in partnerships, drops, whatever. That's how you build a sustainable brand versus, you know, I think today, today's day and age is just very broken the way that people are like sourcing ad creative, spending money on meta to test if it works. And like that's just 85, 90% of your marketing budget. It's a, it's, it's more of a dopamine hit for sure. You know, it's money coming in the door, you're spending a lot more but like it's, you know, it's money coming in the door versus you know, just kind of investing and building that demand side of the business and then making your supply catch up. So.

[A]

Agree more. I, I'm excited to start talking about it on the pod. Like we'll have our new name, new logo, our typography, like all, all those elements. But I'm gonna start sharing how I'm doing it for my own brand. And then this is probably a little early information, but an apparel brand that I like in here in Dallas and Austin is they're gonna bring me on as like one of their creative director, but like bring me in as an owner of the brand already like very successful brand. But the idea is to give resources to be able to world build, you know, to hopefully their degree, like to late checkouts degree or like an ALD's degree. The, the thing that I'm really stuck on is I do think like there's brand guidelines. I think it's going to evolve heavily and I talked about this on the, on the. Thank you, Jamie. Done. No, no, still going. Oh, for real?

[B]

Yeah, it's all good, dude.

[A]

Yeah. As I said. Thank you, Jamie. We're Rogan, baby.

[B]

This is, this is crack right now.

[A]

Ice cold water. There's one thing I do think that's going to happen over the next 10 years. It's not like a, it's going to happen this, this year kind of thing, but you know, everybody focuses on brand guidelines, right? And like that's the epitome of and the end all be all for decision making for a brand. I think that's going to be a chapter in what is like the world building guide. I think that is going to be the, the net new norm where you're going to have to create like this entire visual identity, art direction moments. What do those look like? Who are the characters? If we're going to cast characters, what do they look like? All of that and it's going to be like the world building guide and then brand guidelines is going to be like this one chapter within that. We talked about it. I talked about. I think I brought it up a little bit in the episode we did with Oren, but I do think that's going to happen. Not in the near future at this rate. Like I'm still having conversations with BR like I had a conversation today with a 50 million dollar brand. That's like their whole strategy is make pretty content.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like that's crazy. Like people just don't catch up, you know, like in there and they're not. You gotta love the game is the more. Yeah, I love the game for some people.

[B]

It's like love the game of world building, of social.

[A]

Like, like I think everything world building starts on social because it's where we spend the most time and it's like where we form our perception of, of a brand. If you were to put me on ALD's website a year ago, right, My perception of the brain would just been like, this is cool. But I consume the content and now I understand what the world is. Right. And so like you have to be like furiously fearlessly obsessed with social and the dynamic of how social and how content influences somebody's perception of you. And they. That perception will determine if Alex or Brian spends $400 on a T shirt or we just walk in and ignore everything there and we don't buy anything. Right? Like that's the harsh truth. That's the reality of it. I go into Ald at Lun in London, bro, and I bought a 300 lighter. Would I have done that at. And you could just call me retarded. Like that's, that's fair too. I 300 lighter. I wouldn't have. It was a dope lighter. I wouldn't have bought that if it was. I'm not gonna name like other brands. Like if it was selective brands, right? Like I would. I'm not buying a 300 lighter.

[B]

Well, I think Elwood is actually a really good example of someone who's executed extremely well without doing a A plus job on world building. They've probably done like a B plus.

[A]

If that like and that's any dogging them. They have a good product. They, they.

[B]

But at least they're attempting. A lot of people don't even attempt.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

So I think Elwood gives it a go. But they have a lot of similar silhouettes and styles that Ald sells. Ald sells it for around, you know, 150, 200% more. There's your impact and in this investment is your margin. So I, it's. Some people get it, some people don't. If you're watching this pod and you like what we say, I think you're, you're in a good place because, you know, we see this all the time. I mean, dude, I, I'm like about fed up with it too. I, I just, I'm curving clients left and right.

[A]

I am too. I just declined now. Yeah, I don't even email say no to the family.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, same.

[A]

That's it. Even if they. Dude, the, Even if the brand's doing 25 to 100 mil, I just. And like, I look at the brand, I'm like, you give me no kind of excitement or energy or joy decline. Yeah, I, I've no sick. Because we took on a software client, right? This was six, eight months ago. And getting me to like work with a team member to like complete shit for the brand, it was like no part of me wanted to do it. You know what I mean? Like, did we do everything? Yeah, but like that, you have to have that energy that takes you. That takes like an idea from like a 6 to a 10 and that idea in like that difference. Sometimes happens at one o' clock in the morning, sometimes happens at five o' clock in the morning. Right? It sometimes happens when you should be doing something else. But you prioritize getting like this work done. It happens in those moments. And for me, I say no to the calendar if I know I wouldn't have those moments for that brand. You know, like with Cherry, I was up, you know, their pst, so for their launch I'm up till two, just like cranking with them, working with them because I'm like, want to get this shit out. I want this shit to be the best. Let's do 10 revisions on a piece of content, you know, because I want it to have that kind of, that kind of impact. And the next day it's like, it's like I'm bitching. I'm just, we're rolling, like let's keep it going kind of thing. So I'm there with you decline if it, if it. I show no interest or if I'm not going to have any. I. We're also not at the point, I think from like a team perspective where. And I would like to get to that point where every agency has like clients that are just purely backs, they're transactional, you know, they're kind of going to be there for three months, maybe five months. And you just got to collect the money because you know the margins there. And it doesn't mean you don't deliver a good product, but it's not getting, like, all of your attention or all of your, like, fuel and all of your creativity. Yeah, you could still deliver results for.

[B]

Them, But I feel like that's actually the difference between our size of agency and, like, a big one is, like, that exact threshold from going boutique to, like, just purely transactional, because, yeah, if it's a bad client, I'll give them my less complex, confident people. We'll just have a bad interaction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's like, you know, every other agency that we would, you know, mark ourselves, too. Like, they. I have people that talk so much about the biggest agencies in D2C. I have other brands that do 500 million a year that say that agency's been wonderful for us. Y. What's the different. What's the common thread? It's that the founder works with them. Yeah, the founder works with, you know, the. The brand that does very well. So that's just all marketing agencies, but that's a wrap. Wrap it up. Yeah, Wrap it up.

[A]

All right, guys. Hope you enjoyed this episode. We're back in the saddle. We're back into. Into hitting our. We missed one week. Blame it on Charles 100, but we're back in. If you enjoyed this, please, like, subscribe. Do. Do all the above. Appreciate y'. All.