← Sweat Equity
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- [00:00]
Host
One of the biggest trends over the last 5, 10 years has been creator led brands. And everyone talks about prime, they talk about all sorts of different success stories, but what you don't see is that a lot of times these things go sideways, they stall and the creator has other ways of making a ton of money. So to digest some of that, we brought on Zach Rusheleau, one of my good friends here in Austin, Texas has what, 3 million followers across all platforms.
- [00:26]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, I would say that's pretty accurate.
- [00:28]
Host
Pretty huge audience, pretty dedicated audience. I mean they watch every single thing you do and you've gone through it, you've launched brands. You also have fended off the info product demons to sell out a little bit, but still monetizing in that way. So really excited to dive into your creative revenue streams. The brand launch, which I think we'll kind of get into some of the stuff that you're comfortable talking about. We'll see how much you want to share with the sweat actuary fam. And then also I think just different creator revenue streams. Because a big part of this conversation to me is, is a physical product the right thing for a creator to launch or should you launch something else? You obviously have your ebooks that are 100% margin. This is your knowledge, your information. You could scale those to infinity and not have to pay a manufacturer to mess up your initial order and deliver product. That might not work for a customer. Not saying that's what happened, but we know a lot of friends that happens with. So first things first, just give the audience like a little bit of background. I mean, 3 million followers doesn't really happen overnight. So like how did you fucking do that?
- [01:38]
Zach Rusheleau
How I did it was, it wasn't the intent whatsoever. So my first business out of college was I opened a gym. It was highly individualized personal training with the nutrition component. You couldn't do training unless you did nutrition. Which created a little bit of a bottleneck but also ended up being our best marketing because we had everybody walking around with the 100% success rate. Because if you adhere to the nutrition, I mean you're going through it right now, just the education phase. You're like, oh wow.
- [02:04]
Host
Like everyone, everyone knows we talk about builds on this podcast quite a bit. Everyone knows, you know, we're going through the nutrition journey.
- [02:11]
Zach Rusheleau
Hey, that's good.
- [02:11]
Host
So Zach's a big part of that. He's my coach.
- [02:14]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah. So it's, it's, it's one of those things where it's like when you realize, oh shit, like Pareto's principle. You're like, okay, like, this is 20% of my focus, but it's going to give me 80% of my benefit. And it's like, we realized that with everybody we were working with, so I started sharing. My clients wanted more recipes, and I like to cook. And I started tracking macros probably 13, 14 years ago. And at the time, there was just no recipes online. And I was kind of from a foodie background. Like, I grew up on DiGiorno pizzas, pop tarts, toaster strudels.
- [02:46]
Host
Yeah, yeah, the classics.
- [02:47]
Zach Rusheleau
The classics. If you're an athlete, you like food, you just burn it all off. So, right. Once the athletic side of things left, and I was like, okay, well, I. I want to take it. I want to take care of my health and I. I want to have great body composition. I started learning about macros and I was like, okay, well, I'm not trying to eat all this boring food. And so I was like, okay, the only thing online was hockey puck protein pancake recipes. Awful, terrible. So I was like, okay, well, let me actually teach myself how to cook so then I can actually solve my own cravings. And I learned how to cook the high calorie version. And then I would just reverse engineer, take away a few ingredients. Okay. Did it come out well? Okay. I have a behavioral economics background, so that's how we would run studies. It's like, you have control, then you take away one variable and then. And then that's how you can test things. But if you change too many things, you don't know what worked. And so I took that to nutrition. And then eventually I started coming up with recipes that worked. And I was like, okay, well, this was very good. And then eventually it just got better and better. And I'd share it with my clients and like, oh, wow, this is really cool. This, like, helps me hit my macros better. And then fast forward, I started sharing a lot of those recipes online. This is like 2017 Instagram. And they start to pop off videos on Instagram.
- [04:03]
Host
2017.
- [04:04]
Zach Rusheleau
No pictures. Pictures, dude. It was easy life back then. You could post a picture of a recipe you made and you get 10,000 likes, right? And so I was like, okay. They were asking like, hey, do you have a book? Do you have a recipe book? And so back then, digital recipe books just weren't. They weren't a thing. Like, there was nothing. And so I had to download some sketchy program and kind of built my own. You didn't have Canva back then. So I Built my own recipe book back then, and I was like, all right, let me see if people will actually buy it. And I launched it in September 2017, and by the end of that year, I'd made $100,000 just selling a digital recipe.
- [04:46]
Host
And how many followers did you have at the time?
- [04:47]
Zach Rusheleau
I think I had at the time it was like 30 or 40,000 followers.
- [04:52]
Host
30 or 40,000 and made 100 racks off of an info product.
- [04:56]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, like, that's just that today that's not happening.
- [04:58]
Host
Right.
- [04:59]
Zach Rusheleau
Like the ratio of reach to follower.
- [05:02]
Host
Yeah. Cause those 30,000 people actually followed you.
- [05:04]
Zach Rusheleau
For sure, versus and they would see your posts, like, right now. Like, for example, I've been in the game for a long time. So, like, there's this thing as dead followers. So if somebody has it, like, for example, I have a ratio in my head. I don't know if this is true or not, but, like, that's why I think quality over quantity works a thousand percent, because you don't want a terrible ratio of followers to engagement. So if I'm like, okay, I see it as somebody's going to see. They follow you, they're going to see probably like 10 of your posts and you have a clock from Instagram, like, okay, are they going to engage with one of these posts? If not, we're just going to stop showing your stuff. But they're not going to unfollow. So you have a bunch of followers, but no one's going to see your stuff.
- [05:46]
Host
Totally.
- [05:46]
Zach Rusheleau
And that's like the. I mean, that's just something I buy by now. But in the beginning, I was just volume.
- [05:52]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [05:53]
Zach Rusheleau
And, yeah, so I started making more money from my gym, I mean, from my online book sales profit than my gym. Because I was just reinvesting everything in the gym.
- [06:01]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [06:01]
Zach Rusheleau
But I was spending 90% of my day at the gym just building this business. And we were about to open two more locations and I was like, I'm like 24 years old at the time. I'm like, I can't. I can't do this. So I ended up selling my stake in the company and then going full time online. That's when I moved to Austin.
- [06:21]
Host
What, what was the first. I'd love to get into your journey from, like, carousels to video.
- [06:28]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [06:28]
Host
You know, like when, when you pivoted your content strategy, what that impact led to in terms of your growth too.
- [06:34]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah. So what it was is it would be an initial image and then swipe into.
- [06:39]
Host
Into a video.
- [06:39]
Zach Rusheleau
Into a video.
- [06:40]
Host
Yeah, those were Hitting back in the day.
- [06:41]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [06:42]
Host
Bleacher Report still does it though. I like that.
- [06:44]
Zach Rusheleau
Like it's funny how cyclical. Like it came back and that's. That works now.
- [06:48]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [06:49]
Zach Rusheleau
But it just made sense to me where it's like the image just told the story and it was what people are all going to see.
- [06:54]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [06:54]
Zach Rusheleau
And then they swipe into the video and then eventually reels came around. Eventually. And then I changed my style because.
- [07:02]
Host
Did that lead to like hyper growth for you or like where were you at when reels came out?
- [07:07]
Zach Rusheleau
It got me out of my comfort zone. So I was anti tick tock for a little while just because my brain was so. Not that short attention span, quick cuts like. But what TikTok did for me was it forced me to grow like because I shoot like, I film edit. I'm one stop shop in regards to if you see a concept of recipe. I'm filming all my. I'm coming up with a recipe. I film it all myself, I edit it all myself. Like that's all me. I outsource everything else because it's like I need to be in the weeds if the most important thing nowadays is understanding the platform, being proud of your work and being able to iterate in real time. Because timing matters. Like I can't be waiting two weeks for a piece of content when it's relevant right now.
- [07:52]
Host
Totally.
- [07:53]
Zach Rusheleau
And so it allows me to control that variable which I've always controlled. And I think it's the most important variable for me to understand. And oh, you should outsource. And it's like get an editor. Yeah, but it's like I want to outsource some things that are not so to the detail because we know how it is on Social. It's like the first second one, first frame. The first frame is so important and there's no one that's going to treat it as important as me.
- [08:19]
Host
No, and you. I mean, which I'm excited to get into a lot of your philosophy on your visual frames because you clearly have a style and you repeat it over and over and over again and it just rips every single time. Which I think is a lesson for people. It's like there's some core tenants in framing. Right. Like you show the product or not the product necessarily, but you show the. You know it's a product. Yeah, I guess it is the product. Like the recipe and it looks mouthwateringly good. And then so that's like the initial thing. You take a bite, you're like, oh, it's so good. Yeah, that's pause. But. And then, you know, after that you kind of like list the macros too. And that's that holy shit moment for people where they're like, oh my gosh, like, yeah, what's he about to do? And you're like narrating it the whole time and you're like, yo, I'm about to cook up for y' all. It's just this rhythmic thing. And like, how did you find that framework? Like, how, like, was it testing? Was it just kind of like intuition?
- [09:17]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, it was, it was testing, but also brand. Like for example, if you look at other food creators, they start with the food first. Like the food not, not them on camera. So then you become like almost a commodity. Like, I was like, this is going to hurt my long term because like some people don't want to see me on camera with food, eating food. That's like a nick for some people. I don't really care.
- [09:43]
Host
Definitely, definitely. Because they don't want to connect with you. They just want the rest.
- [09:45]
Zach Rusheleau
They just want the rest.
- [09:46]
Host
Some people, right?
- [09:47]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah. It's like, but those are the people that aren't going to buy.
- [09:50]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [09:50]
Zach Rusheleau
So it's like I was like, I will sacrifice how much reach my posts get and how viral they go, but I will be the one on camera that the start of every video, you will know it's my video because it's me on camera. And I know for a fact that hurt my reach, but that allows me to build brand. And people recognize you and so they'll come up to you and be like, oh, I love your. Like they actually know you.
- [10:15]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [10:15]
Zach Rusheleau
And so then you have staying power because of that. And then now you can attract the right people. And then whenever you do make a call to action, to whatever you want to sell, they know like and trust you. So it's like that format came from and it's very interesting. You, you just plug and play. It's just a game. You're like, okay, well I'm going to change this one thing this time. And I'm like, okay, how did it do?
- [10:35]
Host
Well, and it's always pretty shocking, right? You're like fried Oreos but healthy.
- [10:39]
Zach Rusheleau
Yes.
- [10:39]
Host
You know, like that's kind of your niche is like, hey, pizza, but make it healthy.
- [10:43]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah. And I've recently, not recently, but last six months.
- [10:47]
Host
I.
- [10:47]
Zach Rusheleau
It used to be in chronological order of, okay, I show the food, then I show my bite, then. No, but right now it's I show the most eye catching version and then I'll backtrack to this is and then I'll show the full form. So it's like if the bite or the cheese pull or if the icing drizzle, if that is the most aesthetic part, I'll show that first, then I'll show the full product, then I'll show like more bites and then I go into the video.
- [11:17]
Host
Yeah, I want to kind of get into the business side a little bit more because I think you have like a fascinating dynamic to me. I'm just going to give everyone a quick background. So like on the one end you're a, you know, macro level creator, like millions of followers, like have the ability to sell info products. Number two, you launched a physical product in Flex, which was kind of like your supplement slash, like protein cookie butter.
- [11:40]
Zach Rusheleau
Yes.
- [11:40]
Host
Brand. Yeah.
- [11:42]
Zach Rusheleau
I mean protein. Protein powder is specifically formulated for recipes.
- [11:45]
Host
Right. So it's like protein to bake with.
- [11:47]
Zach Rusheleau
Yes.
- [11:47]
Host
Which is, you know, kind of the core of a lot of these, like Apple Turnover, but with 20 grams of protein, like recipes you put out. And then number three is as a macro influencer, you obviously have a massive opportunity for brand deals. Right. Like you could totally just have, you know, 25k for a post every four posts and like make money that way, but you don't, which I think is really interesting. And what I want to dig into is sort of a like. And eventually we'll get to the ninja creamy thing because I think that's going to be really great for the audience too. But a like, why did you choose a physical product instead of locking in on just selling more recipe books? And was it the retail goal or did you see other creators doing it? Like, how did that decision kind of come to be? Look, something that's not talked about enough is how much you can outperform in your current role and not realize any of the value out of it. And when that's happening, it's time to move on to that next role. But that also takes a ton of time. Filling out applications over and over, finding cool companies, all just to get ghosted. That's why we're partnering with Massive, a new tool to apply to all the coolest companies in the world. On AutoPilot, Massive uses AI to apply to your dream company for you. Whether you're sleeping, eating dinner, working out, whatever it is, you can see all the applications being filled out, their status, whether you got rejected or whether they're moving to the next stage. And one of the coolest parts is that anytime one of these brands reaches back out to you and says, we'd like to schedule an interview. It's all in one inbox, streamlined, so you can reply from one place rather than having to go between different emails, whatever, if you're using a burner. So if you're a top performer looking to land that next dream role without going through an intense job search, we recommend massive go to usemassive.com sweat equity to sign up today. All right, back to the pod.
- [13:35]
Zach Rusheleau
This decision was 2018, 2019, somewhere around there. Um, and it was based on the idea that the grass is always greener.
- [13:46]
Host
On the other side.
- [13:47]
Zach Rusheleau
Like, you don't realize how good you have it when you're just ripping a 90% margin product. That is all knowledge base. Like, and it's getting people results, it's allowing them, allowing them to cultivate a skill set that they will have for the rest of their life. It is literally a blueprint.
- [14:01]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [14:02]
Zach Rusheleau
And at the time, I don't know. You just don't know what you don't know. And once you launch a physical product, you just can't unknow what you learn in that moment. Like, the idea, it'll humble you. It will humble you. Like, the content's no longer the focus. Like you're focusing on, okay, like margins logistics, like making sure you're packaging labels, making sure your product gets to your 3pl, like making sure whenever the deep 3pl sends it out, like, it's not actually beat the shit whenever that's happening. Okay. Ceiling issues with protein powders where it's like, okay, well, we have to half fill our tubs. Like we have to have oversized tubs because if they're too filled, the top's going to pop off and then people are going to think that their order was messed up. Or you have your manufacturer that says that your stuff's going to get produced on this date and then they keep put. They like breadcrumb you for two, three months where you just continue to delay it. And they blame it on China or they blame it on Ireland.
- [15:10]
Host
They blame business owner problems.
- [15:11]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah. So it's just like this trickle down effect of whenever I launch my own books, I'm vertically integrated. It's me. So if a book doesn't not get published, it's my fault.
- [15:23]
Host
Yeah.
- [15:23]
Zach Rusheleau
But if downstream, the downstream of how many times, how many hands it has to touch before a physical product makes it out into the world, it's insane. And so for me, if I were to go back, I would have just done so much more work and understanding what was what was going to happen or if this is a product that has the margins to even be successful because.
- [15:48]
Host
Right.
- [15:49]
Zach Rusheleau
A protein brand. So most supplement companies are not protein first. They are protein to get you in the door and then they sell you all their higher margin.
- [15:57]
Host
It's a loss leader.
- [15:58]
Zach Rusheleau
It's a loss leader.
- [15:59]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [16:00]
Zach Rusheleau
And my dumb ass created a product, created a company centered around the loss leader. And so that created a bottleneck in and of itself. And yeah. So it's just like if it sounds too good to be true, dive deeper into it. Let's sit with it. Because it probably.
- [16:18]
Host
Did you ever get approached by someone like Congo Brands, the guys that like launched a Lonnie New and Prime and lunchly and all this stuff?
- [16:26]
Zach Rusheleau
No. So friends of friends. So. Yes and no. There was like general interest of like, okay, like da da da. But like nothing that materialized.
- [16:37]
Host
Right.
- [16:38]
Zach Rusheleau
Mainly on my end. I've dropped the ball on a lot.
- [16:41]
Host
Of like, you're doing all right.
- [16:43]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, I'm doing all right. I just, I haven't been the best at cultivating relationships and friendships.
- [16:48]
Host
Yeah.
- [16:50]
Zach Rusheleau
What I am able to do is a blessing and a curse. Like I can do everything on my own. So I end up doing it on my own just because my content and all that stuff. Like I've just learned to just figure out things and just do it on my own.
- [17:02]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [17:02]
Zach Rusheleau
But I've dropped the ball on many different partnerships where I could have just made my life 10 times easier and built some really cool things. But I've just kind of kept my head down.
- [17:12]
Host
Speaking of partnerships, let's talk about the Ninja Creamy thing.
- [17:14]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [17:14]
Host
Because I think you are single, not single handed, but you caused a lot of the Ninja Ninja Creamy renaissance. Like talk about like what came first? Chicken or the egg? Like their machine versus protein ice cream that you were kind of pushing.
- [17:28]
Zach Rusheleau
Or like this is, this is a fun story. So I had a call with big dogs. I mean their CMO, like literally their.
- [17:42]
Host
Whole Team Ninja is like a $50 billion. I mean they're huge.
- [17:46]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, it was huge. And we were talking about The Ninja.
- [17:53]
Host
Creamy $13 billion company.
- [17:55]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah. And they're, they're at all time high. I mean they've been exploding, they've been ripping. They've been ripping and good for them. So we were, we were on the call and I was like. Because I was trying to help them understand because they're like, oh, this is an ice cream machine. I'm like, no, this is a protein ice cream machine. I'm like, you guys need to understand you lies launched this in 2021. Actually 2020. No one bought it for three years. You guys had it out. You guys waited for the Pacojet, which was a $6,000 ice cream machine that used like, it's like a similar blender type technology. They waited for their, like their patent to end so then they could make this cheaper version. So from 6,000 to a $250 machine. Brilliant. That's what Ninja does.
- [18:44]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [18:44]
Zach Rusheleau
They have a monopoly on anything creating, manufacturing these types of products.
- [18:49]
Host
They're also a really good product marketing in the modern era. Team I did a video on them on IG and it's fascinating how good they are at like value prop.
- [19:00]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, they show don't tell. They show don't tell. They're so good at it.
- [19:03]
Host
Extremely good. At like a 22nd, like you literally learn everything about the product in 20 seconds visually. So they know what they're doing.
- [19:12]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, they're phenomenal at it. But when we were on that call, they were just so. They just didn't realize what was happening. And I'm like, I was like, I just need you guys to understand this. This is the first time in history that we've been able to have legit high protein ice cream that tastes like real ice cream ever. Like, ever. And your product allows people to do that. And they were just baffled. And I'm like, how does this not register? Like, how do you not understand this? And so it was like this insane insight that I'd given them. And we ended up talking more and more and more, but we just couldn't work out a deal that made sense because in hindsight, and this is what messes me up with like brand deals and stuff. It's, it's one of those. It's a weird cycle. It's like, okay, if you want to get a brand deal and you want it to be performance based, it's like, but, but you don't. You want to be organic talking about the product. So if you go too organic talking about the product, you sell too much of the product without any of the backend compensation. Because if it's more organic, you're going to sell it. Which is the case. If I would have gotten a brand deal from Ninja before I had posted anything about the Ninja creamy, the virality of me selling Ninja creamies wouldn't have happened.
- [20:38]
Host
Correct.
- [20:39]
Zach Rusheleau
So it's this weird thing where it's like, okay, you guys know what my plan was? I'm not gonna move as many as I did.
- [20:47]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [20:48]
Zach Rusheleau
Now Right. But we're not gonna undermine the fact of how many. I. I moved, like, millions.
- [20:56]
Host
It's like, you can't come back to the table.
- [20:58]
Zach Rusheleau
Back to the table. I did you guys a favor because I understand. I'm not gonna deny, like, the extra views and the, like, it became kind of part of my brand.
- [21:06]
Host
But, like, I mean, dude, it went crazy. I mean, how many. How do you know? Do you have a total on the number? Because, I mean, one of your pin posts has 350,000 likes.
- [21:16]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [21:17]
Host
And I mean, that must be like a 10 million view video.
- [21:19]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [21:20]
Host
Like, there's gotta be. Are you. You're pushing probably what, a hundred million plus 200 million.
- [21:24]
Zach Rusheleau
Multiply that across 25. Multiply that across 25 posts on Instagram.
- [21:30]
Host
How did they value your impact? Like, how did they see it? Were they kind of like, oh, thanks, man.
- [21:36]
Zach Rusheleau
Was the same ignorance that they had towards not understanding that they're like, this.
- [21:39]
Host
Would have happened no matter what.
- [21:40]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, it's unbelievable. And so the offers they give me, not chump change.
- [21:47]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [21:47]
Zach Rusheleau
But I'm like, guys, like, come on now. Yeah, come on. Like this. I just want you to be the official sponsor of my kitchen across all platforms.
- [21:58]
Host
Yeah. Which, like, you know, putting the ninja logo and neon sign behind you, like.
- [22:04]
Zach Rusheleau
Easy money and every. And it would have just made sense. Everybody would have been like, oh, yeah, well, duh. Well, duh.
- [22:10]
Co-Host
That's.
- [22:10]
Zach Rusheleau
Any decision I make now from now on in business, if it's not well done in my audience, then I'm. I'm not going to do it because then it requires me to educate around it. And then it's just like, so, you.
- [22:20]
Host
Know, legacy brand doesn't understand the power of creator, you know, Shocker. Right? What. What do you think is that balance of, you know. Cause we've talked about a lot of opportunities for you. Like, I think you could launch a CPG brand. You know, I think you could probably just 5x your info product business if you really wanted to, with some savvy marketing. Your current landing page for your stuff is hilariously, you know, maybe like 2008 looking.
- [22:51]
Zach Rusheleau
Oh, for sure. Yeah. There's so many, so many opportunities, which.
- [22:54]
Host
Again, you know, don't. Don't reinvent the wheel, everybody. Like, if it's, you know, a lot of the time, it doesn't have to just look gorgeous. Like, people want stuff, they'll buy it.
- [23:02]
Zach Rusheleau
That's been one of the biggest things as a brand that loves aesthetics. Our landing pages that are the most, like ugly.
- [23:11]
Host
Yeah, convert.
- [23:12]
Zach Rusheleau
It's. They convert stupidly higher than anything aesthetic.
- [23:17]
Host
Well, and I also think. I forget I caught one of your LPs one time and it was like it just hadn't been. The number had not been updated of like people at a. It was like some number. X downloaded this in 2019 and it was just.
- [23:31]
Zach Rusheleau
Oh, shit. Yeah, that was probably.
- [23:33]
Host
Yeah, it was just like YOLO still working. You know what I mean? Like money printer's still on.
- [23:38]
Zach Rusheleau
This is funny. Like people don't even look at that shit.
- [23:41]
Host
Which is a lesson in itself, right? Where it's like you have kind of went so organic and so value focused. Like Rick Rubin, I think is kind of like maybe a little bit overrated. Like he, you know, was in the right rooms for a lot of times. But in his book, something that I do think is hard to overlook is just make stuff for yourself. Make the things that you truly would just be proud of and want to exist in the world and that will attract your tribe. And I feel like that's exactly what this is. Like just low calorie pizza, high protein ice cream. Like that's a very like. Yeah.
- [24:18]
Zach Rusheleau
Dinner and dessert dialed in niche.
- [24:20]
Host
You know what I mean? So. All right, quick. So let's talk a little bit more about the future because I feel like right now you are sitting at a really interesting place where Instagram, like we talked about earlier on this, is showing your content less to your own audience. And TikTok is TikTok just like, who the hell knows?
- [24:39]
Zach Rusheleau
Who, who knows?
- [24:40]
Host
I don't know. I spent a lot.
- [24:42]
Zach Rusheleau
It's wild. Like it doesn't matter what they don't know.
- [24:44]
Host
To be very clear, TikTok doesn't know what the hell is going on. Um, and then there's like lurking in the corner, this steadily growing channel, YouTube that you seem to be really lasering in on these days. Do you think that with YouTube you'll sell a different product? Like, let me, let me reframe this question with your next thing.
- [25:12]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [25:12]
Host
Whether it's a big CPG play or if you just locked in on more kind of like the high margin stuff that we're talking about, because those are two different decisions. The CPG is like 10 years blood, sweat and tears for a massive nine figure exit. Or you just go make a few million in cash a year vibing, doing your content style, ultimate freedom. So those are kind of the two paths. Good for you.
- [25:36]
Zach Rusheleau
I think it's both. Yeah, I think it can be. I think it can Be both.
- [25:41]
Host
Right. Which is the question here of like how do you view your content fueling both and what channel? Because do you think you can do both on YouTube, which is more long form.
- [25:54]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [25:55]
Host
Or do you think you have to have the short form amplifier?
- [25:58]
Zach Rusheleau
So my stance is for if. Let's just say for example cbg, that would be all social facing, digital behind the scenes. So it's like why I do YouTube is because it grows my email list.
- [26:13]
Host
Right?
- [26:14]
Zach Rusheleau
YouTube. The ROI of a YouTube video. I put out, every YouTube video I put out per 35,000 views. I get a thousand new email subscribers.
- [26:25]
Host
It is not that high on Instagram, I can tell you that.
- [26:28]
Zach Rusheleau
No. And the quality of person.
- [26:30]
Host
Right.
- [26:31]
Zach Rusheleau
Because that plug of that call to action is two to three minutes into the video. So it's like you're already a qualified person, there's friction and now you're somebody.
- [26:47]
Host
And so they're coming into you. I'm on your YouTube page right now, which we'll put up on the website or on the, on the YouTube video here. But so are they coming to you in the link in your bio on flexible dieting lifestyle or are you.
- [27:02]
Zach Rusheleau
No, I'm sending into a devoted landing page.
- [27:04]
Host
There's there that's on the YouTube video itself. The description.
- [27:08]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, so it's in the description. First link in the description.
- [27:10]
Host
Got it.
- [27:11]
Zach Rusheleau
Yep.
- [27:12]
Host
Yep. Get your free air fryer recipe book takes 12 seconds. Bang.
- [27:16]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [27:17]
Host
Give me your email. All right, fine. Crispy, crunchy, macro friendly recipe book. It's great. Yeah. So and that's kind of your KPI North Star is like emails through YouTube. That's why we're growing on YouTube. And then eventually that can put the recipe book funnel on autopilot. But how would you integrate a CPG swing?
- [27:37]
Zach Rusheleau
So CPG swing would be number one. Like the more people that we have that have spent money with us are more likely to spend more money with us. So that's number one is like I'm just trying to accumulate more customers. Like people who have actually opened their wallet.
- [27:51]
Host
And how many do you have up to this point?
- [27:54]
Zach Rusheleau
So if we're talking about like actual recipe books and a lot of my recipe book stuff is I sell almost all or nothing. So it's like so much of it is people have bought a $99, $149 bundle of all my recipe books.
- [28:10]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [28:10]
Zach Rusheleau
And so we're currently at I think it's like 16 or 17,000 customers.
- [28:16]
Host
Yeah.
- [28:17]
Zach Rusheleau
Which is not, not too shabby.
- [28:23]
Host
So 100 margin, by the way.
- [28:25]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah. And so it would be email. So like anything email, it's like, and we're at like a 57 open rate.
- [28:34]
Host
So it's like that's pretty good and.
- [28:35]
Zach Rusheleau
Solid because it's like I give so much value in regards.
- [28:39]
Host
There's a reason. How big is your email list now?
- [28:41]
Zach Rusheleau
150,000.
- [28:42]
Host
150,000. And you're writing one once a week?
- [28:45]
Zach Rusheleau
Twice a week.
- [28:45]
Host
Twice a week, yeah.
- [28:46]
Zach Rusheleau
Midweek Wednesdays.
- [28:47]
Host
Are you writing it?
- [28:50]
Zach Rusheleau
I wrote two emails a week for 18 months and now a lot of that content. We have a hierarchy of how well each one of them did and we remix a lot of them. Like we'll take some things that were in the newsletter and make it longer for a value email on a Wednesday. So it's like my load has gone down. It's just pause, pause. Actually, I mean test levels are up.
- [29:15]
Host
So it's like we're good.
- [29:18]
Zach Rusheleau
But yeah, so I would say.
- [29:23]
Host
It'S.
- [29:23]
Zach Rusheleau
Going, I mean the email list, 150.
- [29:27]
Host
So the idea is like more touch points, more customers, more people that will act whenever I do launch that product.
- [29:34]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah. It's a trickle down effect of like, how can I get somebody as much value as humanly possible in a short period of time? And I give them enough time to come to that and it's on autopilot. So for example, you sign up for a free recipe book. I have a drip campaign of for six to eight weeks of my best content of all time. That we know is proven. That is going to get to you at the perfect time based on your journey. It's going to give you a ton of value.
- [30:03]
Host
That's your welcome series. Yeah.
- [30:05]
Zach Rusheleau
And so you're going to get a shit ton of value from that. And then it's like, okay, well if you want to get anything throughout that whole process, but I don't know, it's long term. Like with the whole brand deal thing. I know we were going to talk about that, but like I've turned down insane amounts of money from brand deals.
- [30:26]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [30:26]
Zach Rusheleau
Because as somebody who's been in this game on its, let's just say on Instagram Since 2016, 2017, the Creator Graveyard is robust for sure. The people who I started with or I looked up to at the time are all gone. They're all gone. They, they all still have a million followers, but they get a thousand likes on their.
- [30:47]
Host
Yeah, like because they sold out.
- [30:49]
Zach Rusheleau
They sold out. Yeah, they sold out. They under monetized then over monetized and it's like, oh, I Have this massive following. I've made no money. Okay. I need to make money now. And it's like, well, you could have just like gradually made a little bit more money. You know, it's not going to go anywhere unless you change.
- [31:06]
Host
Right. Like, I think that's one of the nicer things about your business is you sell info, which is a bad work. I mean, you sell courses but like you're not flexing lambos. You're not like, you're helping people take control of their fitness and it actually works and changes their life. And it's like a creator should be thinking about, you know, what is the way that I can like actually add value and like genuinely help someone rather than, you know, a lot of the core scammers being like, go change your life with, you know, this growth hack that hasn't worked for six months. Right.
- [31:40]
Zach Rusheleau
Facts. Yeah, that's like, yeah, that's kind of.
- [31:43]
Host
The standard these days. And I think you probably built most of that goodwill for. Well. So what was the timeframe again? That between selling first recipe book? Actually you sold it pretty early.
- [31:55]
Zach Rusheleau
I did.
- [31:55]
Host
At 30 to 40,000. Yeah. So yeah, I mean that makes sense. But I think that the scale came with obviously content first.
- [32:05]
Zach Rusheleau
And I've always thought, how do I leave a little bit more? How do I leave? I always want to feel uncomfortable leaving a little bit more on the table.
- [32:11]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [32:11]
Zach Rusheleau
Because if I always leave a little bit on the table, everybody's going to feel it. And I just understand the game that I'm playing. I'm almost holding my breath for the best opportunity that's gonna come to me. And then I'm like, oh, this is my shit.
- [32:26]
Host
Yes.
- [32:27]
Zach Rusheleau
I have an idea. I'm pretty confident I've had that come to me and that'll come to fruition here soon. But like my whole idea was how do I buy time, continue to build audience, provide enough value to where when I find my shit, that's like, oh, this is like the thing that I'm gonna devote my life to. And I want this to be my legacy. This is what everybody's gonna know me for. Then I have that conviction. I just haven't had anything that I'm like, oh, I have the utmost conviction that this meets the criteria of I love it. I believe that I can uniquely create it at scale and provide a shit ton of value. We have the built in margins to where we can actually build a legitimate business that we can now take profits, reinvest like insane amounts to just continue to snowball and Provide more value. And then I have conviction that this could lead to an outcome that allows me to be financially free. So it's like, when that punches me in the face, I now have an audience that will love that.
- [33:27]
Host
Right.
- [33:27]
Zach Rusheleau
That will be so grateful for it. And I've just always had the mindset of, like, how do I just continue to grow and build a bigger tam and like, move this industry forward to where more people understand the value of dual purpose cooking, which is.
- [33:44]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [33:44]
Host
Enjoying it and actually getting fit.
- [33:46]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [33:47]
Host
So. And that's. I mean, the, the such. It's so obvious where the CPG side of that goes is, you know, macro friendly something. But I want to get into your ad account because you're currently running six ads, right? For. They're all like. I mean, some of these are a minute and a half of just like, bit of just food. Dude.
- [34:07]
Zach Rusheleau
What's crazy is that minute and a.
- [34:08]
Host
Half one ribs, is that the printing one?
- [34:11]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, that one prints.
- [34:12]
Co-Host
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:12]
Host
And it's, it's like, you know, for someone that has such a massive volume of content, it's interesting that we're only running six ads. So, like, do you even staff a team or like, you just have one guy, right, kind of like running these?
- [34:29]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. He runs them and I create them.
- [34:32]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [34:32]
Host
And would like, would you ever, like, want to change that?
- [34:36]
Zach Rusheleau
Oh, yeah, for sure. We're in the process. Like, we, we need. It's kind of like, okay, build this into your calendar. It's like, can you get me a couple new videos that we can now turn it.
- [34:49]
Host
Because you're getting a really healthy return. But we're only. You're not spending a ton, right?
- [34:54]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, we're spending 1600 a day.
- [34:56]
Host
Yeah. And it's like, you know, there's like, like you said, this is a really big tam. I mean, the health and wellness stuff, it's interesting. We're like, you know, both trying to create content on the Internet. I'm sure you've noticed, like, one of the cheat codes to going viral is talking about running or just health and wellness these days. Like, that's all anyone ever wants to consume. It seems like, like I'm seeing the threshold for interesting viral content is so low on the health and wellness world. Whereas if you want to talk about, you know, maybe fashion is like, probably a comparable one where, like, fashion is typically something you can get a lot of eyeballs on. But I think if you just talk about like, you know, I've seen this account Fit Insider recently blow up and like, dude, nothing they're talking about is groundbreaking.
- [35:41]
Zach Rusheleau
No.
- [35:41]
Host
It's just regurgitating health and wellness news aggregation through video. And so the reason I say that is like, you're kind of just sitting on health and wellness gold mine with a lot of stuff.
- [35:53]
Zach Rusheleau
But yeah, by all means, I am not optimized whatsoever. My, My blessing is also my curse in regards to me being in the weeds simultaneously. I just believe that I care about this more than anybody else.
- [36:08]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [36:09]
Zach Rusheleau
And the, the, the. I've had this hypothesis that I've seen it play out so many times where it's like the creator graveyard comes from people outsourcing the thing of reason, why. Why people followed them.
- [36:19]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [36:20]
Zach Rusheleau
And then they treat. Start treating it more like a business than. And then people feel it and they can see it.
- [36:25]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [36:26]
Zach Rusheleau
And I can see it in their content. I'm like, it's not because the algorithm didn't like you. It's your content started to suck.
- [36:34]
Host
It changed.
- [36:34]
Zach Rusheleau
It changed. Like you fundamentally forgot or, or it just stayed the same. And people want to see the journey and the progression. If you look at my first post to where now you see my production.
- [36:45]
Host
Value, it's gone up.
- [36:47]
Zach Rusheleau
It's absurd.
- [36:49]
Host
Yeah.
- [36:49]
Zach Rusheleau
And so it's like I've just learned throughout this whole process. So not only am I learning how to. My, My recipes are innovating, I'm innovating in how I package it as well.
- [37:01]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [37:02]
Zach Rusheleau
And so for sure. I mean, the, the end goal of having a team around me to outsource a lot of this stuff, especially long form. YouTube is going to be a lot more easy, a lot easier. I was literally texting with you yesterday about finding an editor to help with ads.
- [37:17]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [37:18]
Zach Rusheleau
And like, with ads, like, I want my ads to be something that you won't even ever see on my page.
- [37:23]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [37:24]
Zach Rusheleau
Like an ad where it's like, oh, this is just a new piece of content I'm seeing from Zach. And so if I don't have enough ad creative, then it's just like this. Like, it's a very similar ad all the time.
- [37:34]
Host
Well, and you know, sometimes it's like, if it's working well, like, you know, and it's just kind of funding everything else. There's not really a need to.
- [37:42]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [37:43]
Host
Push that much scale to it.
- [37:45]
Zach Rusheleau
And, and one thing that I've noticed that if you're somebody like me who's a creator that wants to run ads, it's a blessing and a curse. So one thing you need to keep in mind is. And how you run your ads, let's just say somebody is a new follower of yours. They don't know you that well, but then they just start getting, they follow you, they get peppered, then they get peppered. Your unsubscribes, I mean your unfollows are going to go up because you haven't allowed somebody to warm up to your content enough to where then they're ready to see an ad. Yeah, but it's a blessing. It's like tough because are you just weeding out the people who are just kind of freeloaders or because it's like when they first follow, they're more likely to buy in that moment.
- [38:26]
Host
Well, and that was kind of what you said earlier is like removing dead followers is kind of worth it. Right. Because ultimately you want better signal to the end algorithm like the people who follow you engage with your stuff.
- [38:38]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah.
- [38:38]
Host
Because that's, I mean I've always had.
- [38:40]
Zach Rusheleau
This theory of like, I wanted to run an ad where I could just target all my dead followers and be like, hey, hey, what's up? You can see my content in a while. Here's where it's gone, here's where it is now. Like, you're more than welcome to like unfollow. So then I just improve my ratio. But then I might get some people to engage again.
- [38:59]
Host
I don't know how you, I'm like, at least I'm in 2023 of your content right now. Like just trying to scroll back and like, because you mentioned, you know like your, your production quality and I was like trying to find where it was not good. It's been fire for a long time. What is the video that you're like most proud of? Like what is like the, when it, when you think. Because I'm looking at the Cosmic Brownie creamy right now, 550,000 likes, that one ripped, that reps and I mean it's the dankest looking thing I've ever seen. So like what is kind of the, the biggest hit you've ever had?
- [39:37]
Zach Rusheleau
I mean I, I talk about hits in regards to recreations. So my recipes mean absolute dick if no one actually recreated them.
- [39:48]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [39:48]
Zach Rusheleau
And so that's the interesting part of this style of cooking niche that I'm in. There's actual practical reason of why you should create these recipes.
- [40:00]
Host
Right.
- [40:00]
Zach Rusheleau
Because not only if you like to cook, but then also it's going to allow you to reach your goals in a delicious way. And now you have incentives in place to actually get somebody to cook their own Food. And something that people don't realize is when somebody else prepares your food, more than likely it has 20% more calories than what it would be if you made it at home.
- [40:20]
Host
Yeah.
- [40:20]
Zach Rusheleau
And as we've talked about, 20% can take you from fat loss to fat gain.
- [40:26]
Host
It's different between having a chin and not.
- [40:27]
Zach Rusheleau
Yes, very. It's. It's crazy. And when you extrapolate that over a long period of time.
- [40:32]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [40:33]
Zach Rusheleau
I just have a hypothesis that if you cook your own meals and if you use some of the principles I teach you, like, you will reach your goals without even notice. Like, without even noticing.
- [40:43]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [40:44]
Zach Rusheleau
And just over time, recreations are the variable.
- [40:48]
Host
Do you repost some of your old bangers ever? So this is like, literally every single one is net new.
- [40:53]
Zach Rusheleau
Net new.
- [40:54]
Host
Yeah.
- [40:55]
Zach Rusheleau
It's just a rule I have for myself, because once. That's, like, another hypothesis I have is whenever I see a creator start reposting all their old stuff, I'm like, oh, you're getting comfortable.
- [41:02]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [41:03]
Zach Rusheleau
Like, you're getting lazy.
- [41:04]
Host
I mean, dude, this Oreo protein ice cream sandwich, you're. I mean, that's insane.
- [41:08]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, it's just like. I don't know, like, people always think I'm, like, just ripped. I'm just high as shit making all this food.
- [41:14]
Host
Yeah. Yeah.
- [41:15]
Zach Rusheleau
I mean, I come from a little bit of a stoner background.
- [41:17]
Host
That would. That would make it munchy.
- [41:19]
Zach Rusheleau
Food definitely works.
- [41:20]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [41:21]
Zach Rusheleau
But, yeah, it's like recreation. So it's like. I would say my. My. I mean, my protein pizza.
- [41:26]
Host
Yeah, that.
- [41:26]
Zach Rusheleau
Which you've had multiple times.
- [41:28]
Host
Yeah.
- [41:29]
Zach Rusheleau
I mean, my protein and ice cream. My pizza and ice cream combo is something I'm very proud of. I mean, there's. I mean, there's many different avenues. Like, I believe my salad game is top tier. I believe my ramen game is top tier. So it's just like. I don't know. I don't put out a recipe unless I think it's incredible.
- [41:53]
Host
I'm not going to lie. Some of these old ones I'm about to send over to Chef Mandy. Well, dude, I think it's been great. We're coming up on time. Do you have anything like parting sort of advice for people either a. That are creators not sure how to kind of, like, you know, find that right. Products, but be like, people starting their content journey? I mean, I think that's something that's underrated. Hopefully they got from this video that, like, you find a niche, you deliver insane levels of value, and you do things that, like, are within. You know who you are. Right. Like, you wanted to be jacked, you wanted to eat well. You grew up on Digiorno and ice cream, and so you created those things healthy that were sustainable for you to enjoy for your life. Ended up finding that a lot of other people wanted that too, for sure. So, like, how would, how would someone, like, kind of find their kind of zone with content?
- [42:44]
Zach Rusheleau
So I think there's a happy medium in regards to when you create content. Create the thing you want to create. Create a couple different variations of that. I mean, obviously study other people that you like, kind of get inspiration from them. Find your own little. Because, I mean, back when I started macro friendly cooking, there was literally, I was by myself, there was nobody. And now it's all over the Internet now.
- [43:08]
Host
Yeah.
- [43:08]
Zach Rusheleau
Like, and I. If I follow one of these new creators, I get a DM within two minutes afterwards. It's like, oh, my God, it's the og. Like, I started. It's like, it's so cool. It's weird being called og, but it's.
- [43:20]
Host
Like, it's a natural progression.
- [43:21]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, yeah, it's dope.
- [43:22]
Host
Live long enough to see yourself become the og.
- [43:25]
Zach Rusheleau
I know it's wild, but I would say just the analytics are the analytics, like, look at what works and what doesn't. And if you really enjoy making a style of content, it actually worked. The grass is not greener. Lean into that style over and over and over again. Don't post the same shit, but there's a framework to it. It's like, oh, don't post. Okay, if the pizza recipe worked, just do pizza, pizza, pizza, pizza. It's like, no, no, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, like, the narrow focus of, like, what's the value proposition? You need to make it large enough to where you're not just pigeonholed as just this one thing. But I would, I would just say, like, the data is right there. If it worked. Don't get distracted and be like, trying to be everything to everyone. When I started cooking, my recipe videos took off, but then I was like, man, but like, I know how to teach people how to have this relationship with food and lifestyle design with their nutrition. And, like, I wanted to be a coach as well. And then I started to dilute my content. And what happened once I got rid of all that stuff and I just went back to recipes, it just started to rip again. So it's just like, there's going to be these moments where it's going to try and drag you away from the thing. And then also in regards to monetizing your brand, if people aren't asking for it, don't create it. It's not what you want to create or what you think they want. It's, are you getting dms? Are people commenting? Are they asking, do not create a recipe book until somebody's asking you for a recipe book. Until your comments are like, hey, do you have a recipe book? Or are you getting DMs about your recipe book? Yeah, if not, then keep going, just keep going because the ask isn't there yet. You haven't provided enough value to where people actually want the thing.
- [45:07]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [45:07]
Zach Rusheleau
And until you're getting those questions of do you have a service, do you coach or any of these things based on the content that you're providing, if the value you're providing there isn't this natural progression where people want more of it and they want to pay for it, you haven't provided enough value. You're a commodity.
- [45:21]
Host
There's a really interesting dynamic there, I think, because on the one hand you're right. It's like if you know, say you're an apparel brand. I have this one that I've worked with in the past, callers and company. They have like a really stiff collar. It's like dress collar for a golf polo.
- [45:37]
Zach Rusheleau
Okay.
- [45:38]
Host
And what I've seen him do since we started working together is expand into resort wear and kind of leisure wear where he's got now like these vibey linen shirts. Right. Really, you know, distant from his original like Shark Tank product. But product expansion for him has been, you know, to take him from 10 million to 50 million a year. And that is like, I don't know if he necessarily was getting the DMs or the comments on his stuff, but he had proof of concept, also had the intuition of like, oh my customers like this, let me take a reasonable bet that they like, they, they buy these from someone else. You know, like right now, you know, someone's buying recipe book from you and then they're buying kind of like similar to what you thought of with Flex where it's like, well, buy the recipe book but also buy these ingredients. You just chose, you know, the hardest category ever, which is protein facts. You know, I think, I mean we're seeing right now, I think, you know, this protein, like protein flour or just like there's a variety of different things. Maybe, I don't know, man, maybe you should have done like a non stick spray or something. Like that.
- [46:48]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, like when I, When I think about it, yeah. If there was built in margin, I would have. I would. And then cheap to ship, like all that kind of stuff because at that.
- [46:55]
Host
Point you're integrating it into everything. It's in every recipe you've ever made.
- [46:58]
Zach Rusheleau
And that was with the protein where it was just like the biggest thing was my recipes never came out, like, because for example, like 90% of the market is just a whey concentrate or a whey protein isolate.
- [47:09]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [47:10]
Zach Rusheleau
A whey casein blend is what's going to lead to the best outcome for baking. For baking. So it's like that was where I was solving my own problem because I use it in my recipes. I was like, well, I wanted to make my own. Yeah, that makes my recipes come out great.
- [47:21]
Host
But like in like beauty. Beauty is another category, like skincare and beauty, I think where like, you know, if you have a serum and people are like, you know, do you have another. Do you have this one or. I'm just trying to think of like the common example, like, you know, retinol. Right. It's like you have a retinol thing and then people are like, well, do you have this? It's a very obvious signal for product expansion, but you also need to make sure you're on top of trends and seeing like, how do I capture more of that customer?
- [47:48]
Zach Rusheleau
Yeah, yeah. Back to the caller example. So I think that he had proof of concept with the caller and it was like, okay, where can we put this collar and other things that people wear because the collar is a big pain point. And like, okay, well, other outfits or things that I would wear need to have this collar as well. So he had proof of concept in that realm.
- [48:12]
Host
Well, and if they're wearing the collar, then they're going to want the pants.
- [48:15]
Zach Rusheleau
Yes.
- [48:16]
Host
Like, they're going to want the shorts to go with the collar and you know, I think the natural expansion there.
- [48:21]
Zach Rusheleau
But he had already had brand and customer base. I'm talking to somebody that's never made their first dollar on social media.
- [48:27]
Host
300 followers selling the recipe book.
- [48:29]
Co-Host
Yeah.
- [48:30]
Host
Well, dude, that was fun. That was great. At the flexible dieting lifestyle. Yeah.
- [48:36]
Zach Rusheleau
If I were to go back to the. The inception of the brand, I would have definitely found I had. There was prime real estate back then to find better.
- [48:44]
Host
There was crazy real estate and the handles back in 2017, I'm sure probably could have had App Flex, but all good. Well, dude, thanks for coming on. Of course, man. I think that was probably super valuable for everybody.
- [48:54]
Zach Rusheleau
I hope so.
- [48:55]
Host
Go subscribe to Zach's channel. He needs all the help he can get. Clearly. And definitely subscribe to sweat equity if you enjoyed this one. But we'll catch you all next week.