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- [00:00]
A
True or false? Sweepstakes are the most effective marketing right now for any brand.
- [00:05]
B
True. We've been thinking about this for Black Friday for a few of the brands where we're thinking about like that four day span. Somebody that spends the most money during that four day span, like is first place, second place, third place in integrating sweepstakes into Blender's Black Friday, Jocko's Black Friday. So no, I think it's, it's definitely hot. Like it's a, it's a great. I think you wanted me to say false.
- [00:31]
A
It would have been better for the clicks, but people know that we don't cap on the pot.
- [00:35]
B
Yeah, no, I think it's, I think it's phenomenal. True or false. Do you think this is stemming because people were crushing it with TikTok Shop and they're like, with these different sweepstakes and they were like, yeah, we should bring this over to other things that we're doing.
- [00:47]
A
So apparently this is year four for the two brands that we're about to talk about with sweepstakes. But the TikTok Shop thing is an extension of how overall, if you gamify a process, you're going to get better outcomes and that's with your affiliate strategy or that's with influencing customer behavior. But the TikTok Shop side of things where people are basically giving away Lambos for $500,000 revenue generated, that's a great example.
- [01:15]
B
Who gave away Lambo?
- [01:16]
A
Goalie, I thought.
- [01:18]
B
Did they do a new one?
- [01:20]
A
Oh, yeah, they rolled out all of them. I mean, this is how that stuff goes, right? Like they roll out the first wave of incentive programs that goes well and all of a sudden it's got to be bigger and bigger and bigger every time. And their new, their new stuff is just, it's, it's mind boggling.
- [01:34]
B
But it's crazy that they went from like desperate bankrupt to, I mean, hot take. They're still, I still think they're just.
- [01:42]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [01:42]
B
Giving away Lambo.
- [01:44]
A
Yeah.
- [01:44]
B
Is pretty desperate.
- [01:45]
A
For sure.
- [01:46]
B
Seller supplement will give you a Lambo.
- [01:47]
A
Well, you know, it's interesting. A lot of people are fire selling products right now on TikTok Shop. It' clearance platform. And I almost wonder like, did goalie just have so much inventory that they were actually just saying, no, we'll give it away at a loss. Like we'll sell it at a loss to recoup some of this like sunk cost revenue because otherwise it hasn't been something that's going to generate a ton of profit. Yeah. So reason I ask is sweepstakes are so back right now. They, they're being ran by best in class brands left and right. And one of those brands is Hexclad. So Hexclad ran a contest to give a $125,000 all expense paid trip to London to go hang out with Gordon Ramsay to one of its customers. And here's how you could enter. So you had to provide your name and email and that got you 25 entries if you just opted in for email and text. But the kicker, for every dollar you spent during the sweepstakes period, you earned entries. So they tiered this out for their best sellers, which are their cookware. Every dollar you spent, you got one entry. For their second level of bestsellers, which is kind of their accessories, their knives, you know, miscellaneous stuff was still within the kitchen, you got two points, two entries for every dollar you spent. So it's tiered out by which ones they need to move more of the product. And then for their worst selling products, they, which is like their apparel, their hats, stuff like that, aprons. Three entries for every dollar. Now my hexcloud's free. Playboy. So what's so fascinating about this strategy is during Q3, every E commerce brand goes through a slow period. Everyone who has any sort of large ticket, average order value, Hexcloud, for example, their, their number one selling SKU is $700. It's a full cookware set. So that's, you know, that's a big purchase for a lot of people. And they're probably saving up for the Black Friday deal. So the question becomes, how do you activate people during Q3? How do you not have a slow couple of months during that time? Well, you see that Amazon has tried to mimic, has tried to mitigate this with Prime Day. You know, they have Prime Day in July, they have Prime Day in October because they understand that those are slow months before Black Friday, Cyber Monday. So what Hexclad did and what all these sweepstakes brands are doing so brilliant is during that down quarter, they're running a gamified competition. And so the stakes for this competition are you get to go to London, hang out with Gordon Ramsay, go through a cooking masterclass, go to all of his best restaurants, including the grand opening of his new restaurant. And for all of that, all you got to do is just buy some cookware. And so the incentives become okay, spend more money, get more entries, get more chances at this dream scenario. But most importantly, it coincided with Prime Day. So they ran the sweepstakes during the same time that they also had an offer live. I love that. So it's not brand dilutive to run an offer during prime day. It's not like you're desperate. You know, if you're running, I mean, Memorial Day sale, you name it, right? There's all sorts of incentives to run an offer, but particularly during prime day, you're giving people a lot of reason to buy. You're saying, hey, here's a good discount on our products. Act now. And so by running the sweepstakes, they're building in both incentives and urgency to drive purchases during that time. And as a result, their ads that ran with the sweepstakes messaging outperformed their regular by double. Wow. By 2x. Think about how massive that is for a brand at hexagod scale doing over $500 million. And they unlocked double their roas on this competition. So it's just crazy how effective it was.
- [05:29]
B
It's so weird how things will get a bad rap and then they'll. They'll kind of go old and stale, and then someone does it. Right. Kind of changes it. And now it's going to be. You're going to see so many brands trying to do something like this.
- [05:40]
A
Yeah. And.
- [05:42]
B
Yeah. And like, I. I even think, because, you know, we're working with brands that are really focused on Black Friday right now. I think it's. It's such a perfect thing to do during Black Friday, too.
- [05:51]
A
Absolutely.
- [05:52]
B
Especially if you're, like, also gamifying the checkout with, like, the tiered options as well, where, you know, $50 gets you X, Y, Z to take advantage of those impulse purchases on top of, like, this larger. This overarching larger sweepstakes that you're doing. But I think the thing that's. That's key to this with Hexcly is the fact that they're leveraging Gordon Ramsay. Right. Which is their key spokesman, their key person, the face of many ways, the face of the brand. Whereas I don't think it would have been as effective if they would have just done some random giveaway. Like, they did something that was so aligned with the brand and created this entire experience around the sweepstakes versus giving away, like, cooking class or even $125,000 trip. I love the positioning to Gordon's golden ticket to London. I think that's dialed.
- [06:39]
A
It was great. That was another component of this. So they had dedicated landing page. They had it on the home page. They had a collab post with Gordon to announce the launch of it. They obviously put a lot of ad creative into it and you look at the rollout of everything and they touch every single base and it's so sophisticated. All of their SMS opt in flows during this time were all about the entries. Do you want to see how many entries you have? Do you want to see how many entries you have? And when you see. When you log into how many entries you have, you're getting served more offers. Yeah, you're just continuously getting peppered and reminded like, yo, just a reminder like, this is a dope experience and if you buy more, then you're going to get more entries to be able to potentially win it. So they paired three things, right? It's urgency with the countdown. The sweepstakes runs for a limited time. Once it's over, it's over. You can't get in. The second is an irresistible offer. So this is prime day during the sweepstakes. If you buy more right now while we're on sale, then you earn a better chance to get into this competition. And the last part is just creating a gamified fun experience. Don't underestimate making stuff fun for your customers and investing in brand plays like this because a lot of those things are actually connected to the P and L in a way that you don't see day of revenue, but you see an organic customer acquisition and customer lifetime value because people want to buy from you again. And so by creating that gamified fun experience, they are able to build more super fans about the brand. It's not, hey, bye, bye, bye, right now, it's we're a presence in the cookware space. We're someone that you want to continue to engage with.
- [08:19]
B
I think they could kick it up a notch or at the end of all of this, on when that person goes on that sweepstakes, like, send a videographer, like a creative team with them and turn this into a YouTube episode.
- [08:30]
A
And so there's another brand that did this that we both know well. Did you see Ridge do their gold cybertruck giveaway?
- [08:38]
B
No.
- [08:38]
A
Yeah. You're going to love this. So Ridge gave away a gold cybertruck and it resulted in them doing $10 million in September. So here's how they pulled out.
- [08:47]
B
So do you finally believe they're as big as they say they are?
- [08:51]
A
I think they're still growing.
- [08:55]
B
What a cop out.
- [08:56]
A
I'll put it that way. I mean, I think I. I do think they'll probably. I think they do 100 mil. What was our debate on that? That they did.
- [09:04]
B
I think it's way more than 100 mil is what they said.
- [09:07]
A
So Rich gave away a gold cyber truck and it resulted in their best September ever. Here's how they pulled it off. So it starts with just an insane prize. A winner could receive either a gold plated cybertruck, a Hennessey Ford Raptor. Hennessey is like this performance car company. I don't know if you've seen.
- [09:23]
B
I've heard of it.
- [09:23]
A
Yeah. Or literally just 100k in cash. And obviously this led to tons of free signups from email and text opt ins. But it became their biggest Q3 ever because of their rollout strategy. And what differed about theirs versus hexclad is hexclad rolled this out based on their lead influencer, which was Gordon. Yeah. Ridge just did a brand play around their products and I think it's like one of the crazier most. It's so dialed in how they had this spread across all of their different wallets from their wallets have different skins, they have different colorways, they have different materials. I have, they have a million different things about their wallets that they were able to customize on this and loop in more offers. But like customers were shopping to earn entries just like xCloud. And here's the kicker. Some of them had 4x bonuses on them. So if you bought the products, you could get 4x entries. And what was fascinating is that changed every day. Why does that matter? Because they use this thing called Revo commerce to keep people logged in. So when people would check how many entries they had in the gold plated cybertruck competition, they would be then going to the website checking their entries, which was their number one customer service request was how many entries do I have? So this was just a automatic redirect to your account.
- [10:41]
B
What was that tool called?
- [10:42]
A
It's called Revo.
- [10:44]
B
Oh, Revo.
- [10:44]
A
Yeah. And once they logged back in, they were served a new offer because every day it was shuffling. So sometimes certain types of wallets were or not types wallets because all the same wallet. But like sometimes certain colorways were on a bigger sale than before. And so you're logging in to check your entries and you're like, oh wait, this piece of luggage is like 30% off. It wasn't 30% off yesterday. It created this gamified casino experience where there's always new offers served in. When you're checking your entries, which if you convert it off the bat, you're interested in how many entries you have. You're interested in do you have a shot at winning this thing? And they also introduced tiered spending gifts. So, you know, if you spent $150, you got a mystery crate. So I don't know what comes in a crate, but, like, sure wasn't.
- [11:36]
B
Oh, this is so much like mischief.
- [11:40]
A
Very.
- [11:40]
B
They did a mystery plate or mystery box years ago. It was like $200 or something like that. And it was always $200 worth of items. But some of the boxes were potentially had like tens of thousands of dollars, some of the rarest sneakers, et cetera. And like, you know, you could get a box that had $250,000 worth of something.
- [11:59]
A
Yeah, exactly. And obviously the word of mouth that comes from that is insane. Yeah. So what also is really cool about what they did is remember it was different than Hexcloud. They activated 20 plus influencers across this entire competition. Yeah. So every single Influencer video showed the product said, Ridge is giving away this gold plated cybertruck or this Raptor. And it's showing you the car. It's looking dope. So you're getting awareness of the competition also. Just. It's real. Yeah, that's one challenge. Maybe about the hexclad thing is the video is cool and I get that, you know, a trip to London's easy to understand, but making a tangible gift, a tangible reward, makes people that much more incentivized to, like, want to participate in this.
- [12:42]
B
No, this is awesome. I think both the companies absolutely crush this.
- [12:46]
A
Yeah.
- [12:46]
B
I think there's. There's a ton of potential on sweepstakes. Again, if you do it right. Like, even the gold cybertruck with Ridge makes sense because of the product that it is.
- [12:54]
A
Exactly.
- [12:55]
B
You know, I mean, like, everyday feels dialed that aesthetic.
- [12:57]
A
Yeah. And they're great brand extensions and everything. So in total, they spent over $1.5 million on this rollout that's across the prize money, the influencer activations. They spent 50k on transporting the cars from Influencer.
- [13:11]
B
Was this on Twitter?
- [13:12]
A
Yeah, he put out a LinkedIn post is where I put it.
- [13:15]
B
Sean.
- [13:16]
A
Yeah, Sean, the CEO. Just really, really good stuff. And to your point about vlogging, you mentioned how cool it would be for hexclad to vlog that trip to London with Gordon, for example, which, by the way, I think they definitely will. Ridge did an excellent job on their landing page of saying, this is who won in 2023. He immediately took the Ford Bronco and then started just road tripping across the California coast. And it introduced this is who won and this is what they immediately did after to put that dream outcome. You're like, oh, as soon as I.
- [13:53]
B
Picture yourself, as soon as I win.
- [13:54]
A
That cybertruck, I'm going. And so, yeah, it was just really cool. So, I mean, I think brands need to start to think about what are these activations? What are these sweepstakes, you know, ways to engage your customers that are not just buy more, save more. It's like, there's got to be some different ways to activate your customers because this has a boost on like retention. It has a boost on all everything.
- [14:20]
B
Like also just a brand play. Like the idea of somebody falling in love with the brand and only wanting to buy from that brand. When it comes to Ridge and they think of men's accessories and they think of Ridge. Like, this creates that feeling. It creates the same feeling for hexcloud. When I. I've been getting hit with more things relative to Hexclad and now when I think of cookware and I think of pans at my house and cooking something, I think of hexclad.
- [14:45]
A
Yeah.
- [14:45]
B
Like, and I. And there's this place right down the road, right. That I know nothing about because nothing about them shows up on my feet. What, what is it? The our place maybe, or Madewear or something like that? I don't know, maybe it is our place. I might be making up names.
- [14:59]
A
No, you're right. It's like made. So you're actually. You are right.
- [15:03]
B
I was like, you probably.
- [15:04]
A
You're close.
- [15:04]
B
You said it was our place and I would have agreed with you.
- [15:07]
A
Is it made in? I think.
- [15:08]
B
Yeah, made in.
- [15:09]
A
Yeah, made in. And our place. Just sounds soft, bro. Go get you some Hexclad, because I'd.
- [15:14]
B
Be going to London Stainless Steel and.
- [15:16]
A
Buy it on Tik Tok Shop, please. But so what's also just some stats because it's important that we're grounded in reality. Like, these things were very effective. We mentioned for xCloud that it was a 2x on their existing ad strategy, which is awesome. If anyone on watching this podcast wouldn't take a 2x on your existing ads, then you know you're crazy. But even better for rich. So double digit growth every month from July, August to September. That never happens. Almost every brand sees good July, weaker August, terrible September, Returning customer revenue up 90% year over year. Retention revenue was up 100% year over year. They almost. They did $10 million in just SMS revenue.
- [15:57]
B
Wow.
- [15:58]
A
Like, just SMS attributed revenue. So they had their biggest AOV ever and their biggest LTV ever in the same quarter. And this is Q3, which is the slowest time for E Comm. So it's data driven. It wins not only from a brand play, but it shows up in your.
- [16:16]
B
P and L. So quick pause just to say that if you're listening to us talk about all these strategies and these growth strategies, whether it's the organic side, how organic fuels the entire growth engine, or looking at the entire growth strategy and reverse engineering how to do it well, we do this for brands. Brands hire us to either come in as their hire their fractional head of growth or their fractional head of content and develop these internal strategies for some of the largest brands and fastest growing brands that, that you know. And so if you want us to do this for you, if you want us to come in and develop the strategy that then your team executes against while making sure that it's getting done and we're creating these, these sprints that your team executes against, just hit the link in the description. There's a type form you can apply to work with us and if you're a fit, we'll hit you up. So the thing I'm going to be talking about is this idea of funnel building and testing, but doing it with content. And the reason I'm bringing it up is you and I talk about a lot of top of funnel content ideas to go viral to get eyeballs. But with cut 30 and just with different calls that I've been having, there's a lot of people that are confused when it comes to middle funnel, bottom of the funnel content.
- [17:14]
A
Yep.
- [17:15]
B
And then also I think there's you. I don't know what group chat we were in where somebody is like, why didn't you guys build a landing page agency? And you're like, landing pages are dead. Or you said something like that or landing page agencies are dead. And I agree with you from the lens of building like one or two landing pages is dead. Now it's like, how can you build 50? The same way that you get 50 pieces of creative out, you should have 50 different landing pages. And by templatizing them and understanding what you're creating, you're able to scale it. And that's where this is even a plug. But like for my, like that's their entire ethos is that you should be able to scale funnels the same way you scale ads. And so when I think of middle funnel, bottom of funnel content, I see middle of the funnel content as four things. It's either topic education, category education, brand education, or introduction. And then like cementing your mission values and your mission values and vision. So I want to give some examples there and then kind of get into some of the more specifics. So category education is. Let's take magic mind. Magic mind talks about how coffee. Coffee is anxiety inducing, the adverse effects, how caffeine actually doesn't give you energy. Like all of these things are category education. This is magic mind looking at the category that they're in. So a productive energy shot or whatever, looking at the category and being like, how do we create content around this category that cements our product? But it's not so much like, here's magic mind, go buy it. It is more so here, here's the information that somebody would need and wants to get educated about because they care about this thing so that therefore eventually I could position my product as the thing that they need to buy.
- [18:53]
A
Absolutely.
- [18:54]
B
Human. Somebody that we work with, they, they. This is like humans are talking about how most people are dehydrated, right? Or how the majority of water peels back the minerals and the electrolytes and it's actually very flat and you're not getting everything that you need from actual water. And so therefore water by itself isn't as good for you. This is category education. This is like that mass market. Again, like that mass market education and information that people need to then to. To be able to later know that they need your product. They need to feel like they. They need it. That is category education. Then there's topic education. Topic education is the same. Same, but different is the way I see it. This is more about the parent topic associated with the category. So again, if we're looking at hydration. I have something in my throat. No, no, Diddy.
- [19:39]
A
No, Diddy.
- [19:39]
B
No, I said it before you.
- [19:41]
A
I know. You know I was repeating.
- [19:43]
B
No Diddy. Yeah, man.
- [19:45]
A
I had a client for the first time come to me with some like, hey, what are we doing about this Diddy situation?
- [19:53]
B
Like, how. How can they capitalize on it?
- [19:55]
A
No, no, no. Like, so they had some of their. Some of their sponsors, some of their celebrities that had worn the product were potentially caught up in some Alexandria parties. But I was like, yo, you're more chronically online than me because I haven't seen this. And I'm in there, like, I'm in the wrong forums. You know, I'm looking at some chats I shouldn't. And she had information I had not seen. That is so funny. It was just hilarious.
- [20:22]
B
My Twitter shit's been getting crazy with this stuff.
- [20:25]
A
For sure.
- [20:26]
B
Been getting crazy.
- [20:27]
A
I'm deep in the rabbit hole. I'm so deep in the rabbit hole, I need to get out before my phone explodes on me, you know? Like, I don't want to accidentally find the answer. And they're like, oh, no, he's.
- [20:36]
B
Yeah, he's part of it. He's in.
- [20:37]
A
Yeah. Like, he's. He's figured out the answer. All right, well, would you go to a diddy party, like, back in the day?
- [20:44]
B
Yeah.
- [20:45]
A
I don't know. You know, it seemed like everyone was having fun.
- [20:48]
B
We could. We could get canceled if I keep going with this conversation.
- [20:51]
A
Nah. Do you leave that in there, bro? I'm on the record.
- [20:54]
B
No, I was. It was about to get worse. It was about to get worse.
- [20:57]
A
Look, you know, I don't know what necessarily was going on. There's a lot of rumors are swirling, but some.
- [21:02]
B
Bieber and Beckham.
- [21:03]
A
Yeah. I'll say this. Some of your favorite athletes, they're on the record saying they're sus. You know, saying, no, party like a diddy party, so.
- [21:11]
B
Even Braun, which sucks.
- [21:13]
A
Yeah.
- [21:14]
B
You know, I hold bronze to such a high standard.
- [21:16]
A
Maybe you shouldn't.
- [21:18]
B
I know.
- [21:18]
A
Every time you meet your idols, they disappoint you.
- [21:21]
B
Which or when you don't meet.
- [21:23]
A
Recurring theme.
- [21:24]
B
All right, so topic Education. Same same, but different as category education. The difference is it's more about the parent topic associated with the category. So again, if we're looking at hydration as the category, then we're looking at health and performance and lifestyle enhancement as the topic. And even here, you can see this as, like, the funnel from when we're talking about content. It gets more and more specific. The last two, Brain Education or introduction and Mission Values. Vision. This is.
- [21:54]
A
Is.
- [21:54]
B
This is like the why. Right? I'll give a good example with Jocko Fuel. Jocko started Jocko Fuel because he was giving his kids and drinking himself, like, muscle milk. Like all of us were.
- [22:04]
A
Yeah, right.
- [22:05]
B
Like, we were probably all on muscle milk when. When we were kids or not kids, like teenagers in, like, high school and all that.
- [22:12]
A
That's why I was looking like a limp noodle, because I just.
- [22:15]
B
Oh, you heard.
- [22:16]
A
I said that My protein goals.
- [22:17]
B
It was that the line I used with Sonny. I think it was that.
- [22:23]
A
Yeah. Yeah. No, you. You've called me a linguini before, which I'll probably never forget, but, yeah.
- [22:28]
B
That was crazy.
- [22:30]
A
That was honestly insane. Every night I go to sleep and I just hear that word Three times before I'm about to fall asleep.
- [22:38]
B
Instead of like Bloody Mary or whatever, like you look at the mirror and say it three times. Yeah, bro, you say linguine. Okay. And so Jocko started Jocko Fuel because they were taking Muscle Milk and then they realized that it had like a bunch of heavy metals in the product.
- [22:52]
A
Yeah.
- [22:52]
B
And they were giving it to his kids and he was drinking himself and so he started Jocko Fuel. But that's not pushing product, that's like education around the brand and also the problems within that category, within that niche.
- [23:03]
A
What parent hears that and doesn't resonate? Exactly. They don't want to serve their kid heavy metals. And so by the way, here's the solution that's truly like the new way of marketing. Right. It's like problem awareness creation. And then here's the product.
- [23:15]
B
Yes. And now I think, cool, you, you've established middle funnel content. Middle funnel content should also have their own funnels. Somebody that is, is hearing it, watching a video that's 30, 45 seconds should be directed to a landing page that is more of an advertorial scaling that education and that information. So Jocko writes about why he started the branch should send you a, to a avatar. That's like five reasons why mainstream protein is xyz and it's all about, hey, first they use these chemicals, it's made in this factory, these heavy metals. And then it's positioning yourself so you're like educating somebody on the category and the topic and then you're creating this funnel naturally to the product. That's where I think there's a big disconnect is one, they don't understand middle funnel content by itself as a, as a whole. The second layer is then they're trying to send people to, to a landing page that's way too bye bye, bye bye. Yeah, right. Versus continuing that layer of education. Yeah, continuing that layer of education.
- [24:12]
A
And then what's your opinion on doing this through the product image carousel? So say we're talking about the Fermat example where you can multiply the amount of landing page options and testing that you're sending people to by funnel. So in the Muscle Milk example with Jocko heavy metals as the problem is the funnel, you don't want to serve your kids heavy metals through protein and you don't want them to drink Muscle Milk. So do you think you need a full on landing page to continue to educate there or is it like, you know, just showing a different hero image on the conversion point which says Free of heavy metals, free of XYZ, 20 grams of protein, 1 gram sugar. And that's the hero image rather than just on the regular product page, is just the Muscle Milk clone or whatever it is.
- [25:01]
B
I like scaling the information because with a category like, like supplements, there isn't enough transparency as to why some of the big players aren't good at like. Good players.
- [25:12]
A
Yeah.
- [25:13]
B
So I think it's, it's very dependent on the kind of product. If you look at like laundry detergent, it's more obvious where you could look at Tide. So if we're talking about like Moisey Wash and Tide, it's more obvious to be like, dude, they're using 23 banned ingredients in New York. Like it's. Or Tides banned in New York. Something crazy like that.
- [25:30]
A
They're banning. They're like banned in Europe.
- [25:32]
B
Yeah, I think they're banned in New York or there's ingredients that are banned in New York or something crazy.
- [25:36]
A
So that's crazy.
- [25:37]
B
I think it's, it's all about like the products, something like supplements. You would never think of a company like Muscle Milk or a product like Muscle Milk and think of it because it's everywhere you go, right. It's positioned as a very healthy product. And then you have no understanding that there's all these bad ingredients. And so something like that. Where then their route, like their positioning for, for Jocko feels like 10 times better for you.
- [25:59]
A
Right.
- [25:59]
B
If we go back to our positioning episode a few weeks ago, they're in the, in that field where they're trying to position it 10 times better. And the only way you're going to do that is by talking about how you are 10 times better or how these guys are dropping the ball. And so that's where I, I think about that. We were just talking to a brand and so we were talking about how, okay, there's the content funnel. And if, if somebody is rigorously spending on paid and like optimizing paid for bottom of the funnel. If you have these athletes and you have these influencers and you have all of this, you have a content and creative team. You should be looking at your reviews, you should be looking at how people describe your products, etc. And then turning those narratives and those like common denominators into content ideas and content that is fueled around a specific narrative, whether it's the pain point, whether it's the benefit, whether it's the destination, the outcome, all of those things. So that then you can get the data of you. Well, a few things you could send it to a specific lead magnet and see if there's interest there, if there is interest there, or if you send it to a dedicated landing page or whatever it is, you want to scale that. And what I mean by that is the data that organic gives you is what then should be relayed to the paid team. And now when we're looking at specific benefits, benefits and pain points and outcomes and destinations that, that really work and really resonate with an audience, that is now where we want to look at. Okay, how do we build an entire funnel from ad or from organic piece all the way down to email SMS that is tailored around this one pain point or this one benefit or this one outcome. And so now when we're thinking of bottom of funnel content, we're thinking about through that lens of what am I testing here that is going to optimize here, here and here. Because too many times on a lot of these calls that we're on, they're thinking about organic content. Just through the lens of like 100k views is a win. How do we grow our follower base? And that's just the wrong lens to look at something through it is more. So how do I get eyeballs, how do I get followers then how do I turn followers into fans? Fans into customers, Customers into lifelong people that, that are devoted to the brand. Yeah, but in that entire funnel, entire, that entire experience, there's all of this data that says, hey, email team, we should be creating. If there's a video that's like pov, I just did xyz, right? That POV narrative could be turned into an email. One of our best cut 30 emails came from a video that we made that then we just turned like scaled the story and the narrative into a cut 30 promo email and it drove over 10k. Right? And it was just like this idea of let's test things here and when they work here based on save shares, watch time, then hey, we're going to try it on all the other channels. Let's infuse that, that copy that messaging into the other channels. And so the whole point of this segment is stop separating all of these different pillars and all of these different aspects. One, they should all be working in congruency. And the reason you and I are both focused on organic a lot is the core of it should be organic. The core should be, hey, we can test for free. We don't have to spend money to test. And we could get shit out. We could get a lot of shit out very fast. We could get data within 72 hours. That makes email better, makes SMS better, it makes our landing pages better. And that is going to come from two things. Having a very robust creative content, creative strategy to be able to test, test, test and then scale, scale, scale. The second part is you have to have a very good system for templatizing your landing pages so that you can scale funnels very, very fast.
- [29:35]
A
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think one thing people need to underestimate, people should not underestimate is how fundamentally different buying behavior is about to get and how discovery is changing, how the mechanisms with people, it's interaction with social media is changing. Like Instagram is literally just TikTok now and they are outspoken about continuing to try and do that. And so there used to be this thought of well we're separating our strategy on TikTok and on, on Instagram and you know, the grid matters and all this stuff.
- [30:12]
B
Grid doesn't matter for sure.
- [30:13]
A
Grid doesn't matter. And also like where people hear about products from big influencers, big celebrities like that stuff doesn't move the needle a lot of the time. Especially unless you're a brand that's like the Dr. Squatch Sydney Sweeney campaign comes to mind in terms of how do you can't really lose with that. But at the same time nobody lost with that. Nobody lost. We all won. But it's more so could that like if they had spent that five to $10 million they used on that activation on activating micro influencers across the board. It's you know, I wonder if you create a trend, I wonder if you. And what's more valuable creating a trend or creating a viral moment. I don't know but I just think.
- [30:59]
B
Everything'S today's day and age. I think it's creating a trend versus the viral moment versus like thinking about how behavior has changed over the years.
- [31:07]
A
Viral moments just get swept and sometimes.
- [31:09]
B
They are the trend. And what I mean by that is dollar Shave Club, when they originally went viral with that, you know the CEO walking through the warehouse, they went viral and created a trend at the same time. Yeah, but then everybody like if I create that same thing for Marketing examiner, for whatever like we created for a client, it's just, it just is what it is. Like it's not going to, it's not.
- [31:31]
A
Sure it's not new.
- [31:32]
B
Yeah, it's nothing that new.
- [31:33]
A
Well basically you're just saying like you need to be able to test your organic messaging through. One other thing that people need to understand is when a Post doesn't do well. That's okay. Yeah. I think when you start to look at posting and all that as an extension of your creative testing and marketing messaging, you unshackle yourself a little bit creatively, too. You become more willing to test different things. And I think that's another mindset people need, is like, okay, I'm just posting this to see if it hits. If this performed above baseline, then maybe I should look more into this. And, okay, now I could have done a better hook. Maybe I'll try it in this format, start to kind of repurpose those things. But once you find a winner through that, it is guaranteed to outperform anything you find unpaid. Because your messaging resonated with people in a way that earned their attention rather.
- [32:29]
B
Than pay for their attention 100%. And just to piggyback off your last note, if you're. If you. If content on your organic feed is not flopping, you're not testing enough. That's the reality of it. Like, yeah, I have things that I know work, and then I'll test something else and it flops.
- [32:45]
A
Yeah.
- [32:45]
B
And that just means, like, I'm testing enough stuff 100%. You know what I mean? And on the brand side, too, like, you should have things that flop. And it doesn't mean it's bad content. It's just not the right content for your audience. Yeah, right. Which I guess equates to bad content in a sense. But it's this idea of, like, you should be testing. There's why. There's reasons ads flop versus there's ads that are crushed. But you have to be testing those things. It just seems more. It's harder because it lives on the feed. You know what I mean? For sure, it is what it is. But I know we got meetings. Everybody thinks we fake this being busy thing. Remember that? We actually.
- [33:18]
A
You do.
- [33:19]
B
I.
- [33:21]
A
Let's talk about it. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
- [33:24]
B
We both have a meeting in 10 minutes.
- [33:26]
A
Yeah, what's. What's your meaning about.
- [33:28]
B
I actually have a community workshop I have to use this camera for.
- [33:31]
A
It's a manufactured. Meaning you made that up.
- [33:34]
B
It's a manufactured meeting.
- [33:36]
A
Whether. Whether or not you know, it's real is. I mean, you made it up, but.
- [33:40]
B
We had to push this back, you know, 30 minutes because of meeting with a big brand.
- [33:46]
A
Surprise, surprise. You're gatekeeping who it is again. The audience, they want transparency. They want to know you don't sign any. All right. If you enjoyed this podcast, do us a favor, please. Leave a comment, leave a review on Spotify, leave a view on Apple Podcasts. That is the first thing that anyone who comes to us wants to sponsor this thing. Asked about is how many reviews you have, how many downloads, all that stuff. And by far the best way to show your support is just doing that. Maybe share it with a friend if possible. But we try and bring the heat for you guys, so do a little something for us as well, and we'll catch you all next week.