Why Founder Led Brands are Breaking Ecommerce w/ Devon Levesque

Summary

Sweat Equity Podcast: Why Founder-Led Brands Are Breaking Ecommerce w/ Devin Levesque

Podcast: Sweat Equity
Host: Marketing Examined (Alex Garcia & Brian Blum)
Guest: Devin Levesque (with Albert Matheny joining later)
Date: June 24, 2026
Episode Theme:
The episode dives deep into the explosive rise of "personal brand holding companies," highlighting how founder-led, authenticity-driven wellness brands — like Pro Mix, Rhythm, and Monroe Earth — are outperforming traditional ecommerce through powerful personal brands, genuine community, unique product stories, and innovative creator partnerships.

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Main Theme Overview

The episode explores how trust in mainstream institutions has eroded, paving the way for founder-led brands that leverage personal credibility, lived experience, and community to build massive consumer businesses. The discussion focuses on how Devin Levesque (Pro Mix, Monroe Earth, Rhythm) and Albert Matheny have succeeded by integrating their personal brands, telling authentic stories, prioritizing customer feedback, and evolving influencer and marketing models far beyond "pay for post." The hosts and guests break down the strategic and operational frameworks behind their successes, the inflection points for the brands, and provide actionable insights for founders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis of Personal Brand Holding Companies

• Trust Shift: Consumers now trust individuals over institutions—creating opportunity for founders to launch products around their personal brand and values.
• Pro Mix & Monroe Earth: Exemplified as models for this approach, leveraging their founders' authenticity and expertise.

Quote:

“People are naturally drawn to strong personal brands because it feels more authentic. And in turn, they're going to choose the products and the experiences that that person is going to promote.” — Interviewer [00:23]

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2. How the Partnership Formed and Early Days of Pro Mix

• Backgrounds: Devin and Albert met as NYC personal trainers. Albert brought scientific and nutritional formulation skills; Devin brought experience in hospitality and marketing.
• First Product: Grass-fed whey protein, "one ingredient, cleanest."
• Early Traction: Launched on Amazon, business sub-$500k revenue pre-infusion; all very grassroots and customer-driven.

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3. The Inflection Point: Story-Driven Hero Product

• Baobab Seed Discovery: Devin's trip to Africa led to discovering baobab, a superfood used by local communities for gut health for centuries. This became the unique story and key differentiator for their gut health product, D-Bloat.
• Unique Mechanism: The story, ingredient, and real efficacy made for a compelling, authentic angle that resonated with customers.

Quote:

"Gut health as a whole, I think is the most important health you need to focus on in the human body…If you can have a good microbiome, like, that's a great base for someone to start off at if you're on a health journey." — Devin Levesque [04:23]

Quote:

"It's wild harvested...We just created 2,500 jobs with just these seeds." — Devin Levesque [08:01]

Timestamps for Segment:

• Africa story & Baobab discovery: [03:30]–[06:43]
• Discussion of efficacy & clinical trial results: [08:19]–[08:51]

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4. Content, Community & Personal Brand as Growth Engines

• Organic Growth: No ads for first few years. Growth came from real-world events (farm dinners, gym meetups), word-of-mouth, FOMO (limited product runs).
• Community-First: Advocates building a community before launching a product. Early market research came from training clients directly.
• Personal Brand Leverage: Social media impact became clear when posting training content led to a dramatic spike in inbound client business.

Quote:

“FOMO and Word of Mouth were our best friends from the beginning.” — Devin Levesque [10:12]

Quote:

"You had all of your customers right there...We had the market research sitting right in front of us." — Interviewer [11:41]

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5. Authenticity & Leading By Example

• Lifestyle as Marketing: Devin and Albert authentically live the health and wellness lifestyle, showing (not telling) users, attracting genuine customer trust.
• Content Creation: Content was originally an outgrowth of daily life, not a forced marketing scheme.

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6. Product and Brand Positioning

• Gender-Neutral Approach: Pro Mix & Rhythm purposely avoid male/female niche targeting, keeping the addressable market large and the brand inclusive.
• Scientific Trust + Story: Combine clinical efficacy and personal anecdotes to hit cultural and credibility notes.
• Persona-Based Marketing: Five distinct customer personas for targeted funnels.

Quote:

"There’s 8 billion people in the world. Why would you cut your audience in half?" — Devin Levesque [34:39]
“We’re pretty open to everybody...just needs to be to our standards of quality and benefit to the world.” — Albert Matheny [37:01]

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7. Product Ideation & Opportunity Sensing

• Framework: Blend in-the-trenches cultural pulse and scientific rigor to identify real problems worth solving.
• Ingredient Quality & Efficacy First: Won’t launch a me-too product for short-term trends — focus on things that will last decades.
• Testing Roadmap: Pre-launch, recruit beta users, iterate based on their feedback, and build from 0 to 1% penetration before scaling.

Quote:

“Is this something that will last for 100 years?... I'm not looking for a quick win. I’m looking for a legacy.” — Devin Levesque [18:07]

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8. Creator & Influencer Marketing Evolution

• From Gifting to Partnership: Initial days were just free product for posts; evolved to commission structures, equity participation ("sweat equity"), and even deeper partnership models.
• Creator Upside: Regular users with tiny audiences can go viral and make life-changing income (e.g., $15k commission from a 500-follower creator).
• Active Education: Invest in training creators about the product, science, and market angle to produce better content.

Quote:

"The evolution of creators has gone much deeper than just posting to their channel. Now, like, a lot of these creators want to be partners. They want to be a part of something, they want to grow something." — Devin Levesque [23:31]

Deal Structures (influencer marketing):

• A/B List celebrities: Equity pool (5-7%)
• All: 10% commission via Tribe platform
• No cap on upside for creators—best content wins.

Timestamps:

• How the creator program works: [23:01]–[27:22]

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9. Marketing Levers & Adaptability

• Levers to Pull: Marketing is mix of events, word-of-mouth, guerrilla tactics, email, paid ads, and community building — with levers adjusted based on market/cultural timing.
• Sequencing: Pro Mix began with community levers first, only adding paid and email later.

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10. Scaling & Retail: Staying True Post-Private Equity

• Choosing the Right Partners: Emphasized importance of choosing investors who believe in the mission and won't force changes.
• Retail vs. DTC: Still focused on channels they control (DTC, Amazon, boutique gyms/shops) and digital education, with retail expansion as a future lever.
• Growth Philosophy: “Business as usual” post-acquisition, autonomy retained.

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11. Physical Community & Premium Experiences (Monroe Earth)

• Community Vibe > Exclusivity: Monroe Earth is intentionally "invite only" but based on personal values and vibe, not price barriers.
• Simplicity in Experience: Wellness shouldn’t be complicated; the space is high-touch, welcoming, yet simple and easy to understand.
• Avoiding Wellness Confusion: No overcomplicating with trends or unnecessary upsells. Simple offerings, clear pricing, and authentic community.

Quote:

“We're not judging people based on their income. We're judging people based on the quality of human they are, what values they have. There shouldn't be a price barrier to the health industry.” — Devin Levesque [63:41]

Timestamps:

• Monroe Earth, community and hospitality: [59:40]–[65:21]

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12. Operational Routines of High-Performing Founders

• Devin: No external calls before 11 or after 3, prioritizes internal work & travel, extremely deliberate about time use and delegation.
• Albert: Wakes up at 4am, structured work blocks with family time, dog walks, no time wasted on non-essential interests.
• Time-Blocking and Prioritization: Only focus on what’s most impactful; delegate or shortcut everything else.

Quote:

“90 plus percent of the time you can probably get what you need to get done in 15 minutes. Totally or less concentrated.” — Devin Levesque [72:03]

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13. Mental Models & Entrepreneurial Advice

• Find the Right Partner: Seek out complimentary skillsets and clear running lanes.
• Don't Take It Too Seriously: Don't sacrifice health, family, or happiness for growth; make sure you would enjoy the journey even without massive exit.
• Intention & Fun Matter: Know why you are building (money, impact, enjoyment) and don’t lose sight of it.

Quote:

“Don’t lose your values and who you are when building a company... Don’t forget to have a little fun along the way, because it does go by.” — Devin Levesque [84:06]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Storytelling as Differentiator:

  "One goat donation and then all of a sudden you got $100 billion business. Go find a goat." — [39:29]

• On Community-First Approach:

  "Start a run club, start a dinner club, start a book club, start bringing people together in person...then see, like, what would work with them." — Devin Levesque [10:12]

• On Influencer Leverage:

  “We have creators that have 500 followers. We just paid someone last month. She created $150,000 worth of orders with her one video.” — Devin Levesque [25:31]

• On Longevity of Products:

  “If it’s not going to last 100 years, I probably won’t get involved…I want a legacy.” — Devin Levesque [18:07]

• On Wellness Space Simplicity:

  “The whole health industry is confusing. So there's confusion, and then there's a price barrier. Then it's like, wait, should I be paying $20,000 a year to have access?...We’re just trying to pull it back, you know, with the ingredients that we sell through Pro Mix: Very simple. You can read them all.” — Devin Levesque [61:16]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00] Introduction to personal brand-led companies
• [03:30] Baobab story & D-Bloat genesis
• [08:16] Clinical trials & unique mechanism in gut health
• [09:16] Importance of starting with community
• [12:25] Devin’s “first gram” and Instagram’s early days
• [23:01-27:22] In-depth on influencer ecosystem & modern deal structures
• [34:39] Why stay gender neutral in wellness/ecommerce?
• [59:40-65:21] Premium wellness, hospitality, and community at Monroe Earth
• [70:49] How founders handle operations/time
• [80:54] Biggest mistakes and advice for other operators

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Actionable Playbooks & Takeaways

Product Discovery:

• Leverage real-world community for feedback before launch; look for organic product/market fit before scaling.

Marketing:

• Use non-paid levers (events, FOMO, Word-of-Mouth) before paid — paid is a later-stage amplifier, not a launchpad.
• Build influencer programs that incentivize long-term alignment (commission, equity), and invest in genuine creator education.

Branding:

• Authentic, story-rich, and inclusive branding expands TAM and fosters retention and trust.
• Consider clinical validation and cultural relevance—ideally both, but at least one.

Operations:

• Ruthless prioritization and time-blocking keeps founder energy optimal; only personally handle what only you can do.
• Build a team with mutual trust and complimentary skill sets; self-awareness enables scale.

Philosophy:

• Remember your reason for building—don’t sacrifice health, values, or relationships.
• Focus on legacy and impact, not just short-term wins.

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Flow and Tone

The hosts maintain a candid, energetic, and highly actionable tone throughout. Insights are direct, jargon-free, and supported by vivid real-world stories. The dialogue blends strategic depth with relatable anecdotes — equally valuable for aspiring founders and experienced operators.

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For Listeners Who Didn’t Hear the Episode

This summary covers how founder-led, authenticity-driven strategies are disrupting the ecommerce and wellness space. The guests provide frameworks for building DTC wellness brands around real community, science + story, and modern creator partnerships. The playbooks and candid advice will be valuable not only for CPG entrepreneurs, but for anyone building consumer businesses in today’s trust-driven, noisy market.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

A new business model has been quietly exploding over the last three years and I like to call it the personal brand holding company. It's when a large creator aligns their interests and their audience and launches a suite of businesses to serve the two. The reason this is exploding is because trust in mainstream institutions is at an all time low. And so when you have a strong personal brand, people are naturally drawn to it because it feels more authentic. And in turn, they're going to choose the products and the experiences that that person is going to promote. One of the most prominent examples of this is Devin Levesque and Albert Matheny, the founders of Pro Mix and Monroe Earth. Pro Mix is a multi nine figure supplement brand, while Monroe Earth is a premium fitness experience. Now, their partnership is the blueprint for the personal holding company. But you won't believe how it got started. First thing I want to get into is just like, how did you and Albert's partnership come together, like from inception all the way to kind of where it is now for sure.

[Devin Levesque]

Albert and I were both personal trainers in New York City. He had a gym, I had a gym. He was working on supplements. He ran track at University of Florida and then for Team usa, I played college football and baseball. And so we both had this sports background. I went more the training route, hospitality route. After college he went more mixing these ingredients together. And so back in 2019 we got linked up from our friend Chris, our mutual friend. And Albert's amazing at putting products together and putting raw ingredients together and mixing formulas. Food scientist, registered dietitian. He has all the background to do that. And then I really enjoy marketing and bringing awareness to good products. Good, just good. I don't know, people feeling good.

[Interviewer]

Like a product that delivers an outcome.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah. Like I used to work in hospitality, right. In nightclubs and restaurants. And I just love, you know, when people come in and you put a smile on their face and you know, they eat a really good dish or you know, they have a great cocktail and they're just having a good time. And I think that's always made me feel really good. I love hosting dinners at my house. Like, I just like bringing people together and our products make people feel good, you know what I mean? And like that's the ultimate selfishly feeling for me is when people feel good off of something you're doing.

[Interviewer]

What stage was the business at when you guys came together? Like, was it kind of starting to take off?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, very, very, very early. Yeah. Sub million in revenue. Sub maybe probably half a million in revenue. It Was not big. It was. Yeah. Very small. Definitely a hobby, right? Definitely not a real.

[Interviewer]

Not to what? Not what it's growing into today because you guys recently sold a chunk of the business to a private equity group scaling well into the mid. I mean, I don't know if you're at nine figures yet, but, like, you're

[Devin Levesque]

getting very much past nine figures.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So, I mean, the business has, like, exploded, particularly in the last few years. Like, what did you feel like was the major inflection point?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, you know, we started off with grass fed whey protein that was like the first main ingredient.

[Interviewer]

Put it on Amazon and it was like the cleanest.

[Devin Levesque]

Cleanest. It was one ingredient.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

And so that. That took off decently.

[Interviewer]

Well.

[Devin Levesque]

We tried a couple other puff, you know, the puff bars. We tried a chocolate bar out. We tried, you know, pre workout stuff like that. But really, four years ago, five years ago, I think it was 20, 21, I went to Africa to climb Kilimanjaro.

[Interviewer]

Nice.

[Devin Levesque]

And after Kilimanjaro, I went back to this village that my Kilimanjaro guide was a part of. And I actually, I got them a goat as a thank you for, you know, helping me reach the summit. And so that was just. That's what they requested.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's great.

[Devin Levesque]

And so I gave them a goat. I got them a goat. And so I go and do this with them in their village. Full third world country.

[Interviewer]

Were you cooking the goat?

[Devin Levesque]

Well, yeah, so we harvested the goat. Harvested the goat, Ate the goat. And as we're doing this cookout, these kids were running up to me and they were trying to sell me this fruit. And it was like this hard seed. And I bought the seed. And the guy I was with was like, oh, that's high in vitamin C, high in potassium. And so I opened the seed and I try this powder, this white powder on the inside. And it didn't really taste like anything. I was so fascinated by it because everyone in the village was just talking about, like, oh, that's the baobab seed. It's so nutrient dense. We've been eating it for centuries and our whole lives. And it's good for gut health. And I've always wanted to do a gut health product. Gut health as a whole, I think is the most important health you need to focus on in the human body. Not just biceps, not just, you know, brain health, not just, you know, blood health. Like, gut health. Everything's formed from the gut. Diseases, mood, acne, everything. It starts in the gut. And so if you can have a good microbiome, like, that's a great base for someone to start off at if you're on a health journey. And so we took the baobab seed, brought it to. I brought it to Albert. He tested it out and yeah, it has high amounts of vitamin C, potassium, about 65% fiber, vitamin B12. Like all these different vitamins are in this seed. And I'm like, we should do a gut health product. Now with the gut, you need pre and probiotics. And so we have natural prebiotics from the baobab seed. We have three strains of probiotics. We had turmeric in it, and then we have organic oranges, organic peaches, hibiscus, et cetera, that flavor it. And that was our hero product. That's D blow. Yeah, that is a great. That was a great inflection point for the business because it's an easy product, everyone. Easy product for people to consume. You can take it every day. It tastes really good. You can feel it immediately. It literally flushes you out. You take it and you're probably going to have to go to the bathroom within the next 20 to 30 minutes. Over a 20 to 30 day period, you start to feel a little bit more clear. Your food digests better, your stools are better. And so that was a great product to introduce people to Pro Mix. And that quickly became our hero skew.

[Interviewer]

It's really interesting. We talk about something called the unique mechanism on this podcast a lot where it's like, people have tried probiotics, people have tried debloating products for years. There's a million of those. But your story about, you know, this gathering in Africa, you know, like, that's like a very unique discovery, like, super. You have a great story accompanying this ingredient. There's kind of this, you know, non Western medicine angle to it as well. It's like, why? Why is this not in our system? You know, like. And so that builds intrigue for the product, builds trust, right? Because it's like, oh, they've been using it for centuries.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, of course, it's the oldest superfood on the planet. I mean, these baobab trees are a thousand, two thousand years old, right? Literally.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

And what's even more cool about the whole thing is it's wild harvested and so they, the, the fruits sprout in January and they normally drop around April. Once they have to drop, right. Once they drop, that means the powders dried up at the perfect amount on the inside for you to take it and so they drop in say April, May, and then the locals, there's like 2,500 of them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's just like a straight village.

[Devin Levesque]

There's many villages. Cause it's all across South Africa. And so all these villages collect the seeds and then they sell them. And that's how we. It's all wild harvested. And so we just created 2,500 jobs with just these seeds.

[Interviewer]

Were you guys first to market with this ingredient? Like for.

[Devin Levesque]

No, I mean there's definitely other companies that sell baobob, but no one else does. The baobob free probiotics, Turmeric for the gut health specifically. That I think tastes that good. And we just put it through a three week triple blind clinical trial which went amazing. 83% of people found digestive release. Comfort release.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

Which was real. Which is, you know, a great.

[Interviewer]

Incredible.

[Devin Levesque]

I mean. Yeah, no placebo, you know, full triple blind. Which is.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

Which is the highest of the highest.

[Interviewer]

What were some of like, because. So we can back it up a second. So you have a very large personal brand and you know, you've kind of accumulated that over time on Instagram, all these different channels. And was. Were you making a lot of the initial ads from your personal brand for D Bloat for Way Pro? Like, how did that kind of structure work initially? Interplay of your personal brand and Pro mix?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, you know, we never really did ads for the first three or four years in the business. Like zero ads. We didn't. That's not how we launched it. We took, yeah, all organic, more natural approach where I would do events at my farm or at the one hotels or random cities around the world where we're doing runs or sauna sessions or whatever it is. Word of mouth is big. Like just people talking about it, feeling it, et cetera. Little fomo. I think we fomo, you know, when you look at a P and L sheet, Word of Mouth and FOMO are never listed, but I think they're the two strongest ways you can market.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Devin Levesque]

You know, FOMO meaning, like we just had limited runs because it's raw ingredients, so you can't. We don't have unlimited.

[Interviewer]

Which also builds that narrative about quality.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Like, we're not gonna compromise and scale this thing too much because we just can't, you know, we would lose the integrity of the product.

[Devin Levesque]

Correct. And so FOMO and Word of Mouth were our best friends from the beginning. And then.

[Interviewer]

It's hard, though. It's hard. It's like delayed certification.

[Devin Levesque]

It's hard to Trust that. But you have. But I think when you're building a brand. Let me back up. I think there's too many people or founders that go in and say, okay, I'm gonna launch a business, and I think people are gonna jump in to this community versus starting a community first and then building a brand off of your community. Meaning start a run club, start a dinner club, start a book club, start bringing people together in person. 10, 15, 20, 100 people. Start building that up and then see, like, what would work with them. Right. And I think with Albert and I, we both had clients.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

That we were personal training.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

And everyone was asking, what do I take? What. What should I. What should I drink every morning? What protein should I have? What, like, what should I use? What should I be eating? What's my nutrition? And so we had this base, you know, I had hundreds of clients in New York City. He had hundreds of clients in New York City. And we're like, let's. Like, we have our clientele here now. Let's give them a product. You know, I mean. And that's, I think, why Pro Mix worked from the beginning. It wasn't because we did it opposite. We already had the clientele base. We were training 10 hours a day. We had it.

[Interviewer]

Well, I mean, you launched with the customer. Right? Right. You had all of your customers right there. Exactly. Not necessarily saying they were immediately buying from you, but you knew, like, okay, we knew what they want.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

We had the market research sitting right in front of us. So, like, we weren't guessing. We're like, this is what they want. This is what we like. Let's mesh. Let's. Let's mesh. Those from my personal brand side. You know, I never knew I was going to have, like, in college. We didn't. I didn't even know what social media was. I remember a girl came up to me in college and she's like, hey, look at this new app. And she. It was Instagram. I was like, oh, cool. What is it? She's like, you can just share photos. I'm like, cool. And I remember I was in art class at the time, and.

[Interviewer]

You were in art class?

[Devin Levesque]

I was in art class.

[Interviewer]

Were you like.

[Devin Levesque]

I was just. It was like a elective or whatever. Yeah, Yeah. I was taken to college and I remember, I, like, we were painting something and I pan. I painted my hand green and I, like, put it on a brick wall, and I, like, took a photo and I posted. I'm like, oh, that's my first.

[Interviewer]

Like, that's Your first gram? Yeah, that was.

[Devin Levesque]

That was the first gram. I'm like, oh, you can share photos. Let me. Yeah, I remember she was like, it's for artists. It's for, like, musicians, creators, Instagrams for, like, creative. I'm like, all right, let me get. Let me get artsy real quick, right? And so I did that, and then I didn't really. I didn't really think about Instagram, you know, when I was in. You know, when I was running nightclubs and restaurants.

[Interviewer]

So was it not a part of you building your initial businesses, like. Cause you were doing hospitality, personal training? Instagram wasn't a place where you sourcing clients.

[Devin Levesque]

Not really, no. I mean, I would post, like, our flyers or, like, things we were doing at the restaurant or food photos, but I never really thought of it like that until my friend came up to me at a bar one day and was like, hey, you do crazy workouts in the gym. Like, you should post these workouts. And I'm like, these are just my normal workouts. No one's gonna care. Like, what do you mean? He's like, instagram just launched videos, and so you should post these videos. And I might have had, like, 5, 6, 7,000 followers at that time just from, like, being in the hospitality world. People knew me. Whatever.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

And I remember I posted one and it did. Okay. And then I posted another one, and Barstool reposted it, and then ESPN reposted and SportsCenter reposted, and like, overnight, it was like, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 followers, quote. And I was like, whoa, that's kind of crazy. But then when I posted, I had a real business going on. I was training people, right? And I was doing meal preps. And so I saw the impact from when I posted, and all the DMs started to come in of, like, can you train me? Wait, what food should I eat? Wait, you're in really good shape. What should I do for a workout? I'm like, oh, my God. There's a direct correlation of social media to a business. That's the only reason I have social. Like.

[Interviewer]

Like.

[Devin Levesque]

Cause it is an asset for the business.

[Interviewer]

It's insane leverage. I mean, you're basically getting all of this market signal inbound, right? Where people are telling you exactly what to build, exactly what their problems are, exactly what they're struggling with when they experience that problem too. Exactly.

[Albert Matheny]

Right?

[Interviewer]

Cause I think that's where a lot of entrepreneurs don't take the next step, is they understand that people are having a problem. But like we talked about earlier, what's that unique mechanism? Because they've tried to solve bloating. You know, someone has tried to solve it before, but they never tried a baobab, animal based products. And so now it's like you have a new solution for them.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, it's really hard to get someone to change their habits. You wake up, you, you know, whatever, you, whatever your morning routine is. You, you know, you go to the bathroom, you brush your teeth, you have your coffee, whatever. Like switching someone's habits is one of the hardest things to do. And I think the way we were able to switch people's habits is showing, not telling, you know, and so Albert and I live this, you know, both him and I put our health first. We eat real whole foods, we work out pretty much daily, sauna, cold plunge daily. Like we live this lifestyle. So we're showing it versus just telling you to do it, you know, or trying to snake oil you in. It's like, look, we're doing this, it works for us if you want to do it. Cool. And I think we've led by example and that's, that's what's helped us totally, you know, quite a bit.

[Interviewer]

I mean, I think that's a really cool thing when you kind of examine what you guys are doing is you've basically turned your personal brand and a lot of these things that you stand for, that you do in your real life into almost like a wellness empire, like holding company, if you will. Right. Like we have so many different things. There's Pro Mix, there's Monroe Earth, which I mean we haven't talked to the audience about yet. There's rhythm. Like these are things that kind of like you said you had those hundred personal training, high end clients, every single one of them would want one of your several different businesses. And your content has kind of built this world overall. Would you say that was a super intentional thing with the way that you were creating content over time or was it just kind of you living out your passions and doing the things you would have already been doing?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, no, it was not, it was not planned. I always put me living and my adventures and my fun first. Like that's my top priority. My family, my friends, my adventures. Like that's first and foremost. And I'm able to, when I do that and having real connections with people and physically being in the gym and like being like doing these meetings and traveling and I'm in the trenches, I'm not sitting in a boardroom, I'm not on a Computer like I'm physically there seeing how humans are interacting. I think human psychology is super fascinating, just people watching. But on 10x is what I do. I really just, I watch on how consumers work and how they look at things and what they're thinking about. And is this a trend or is this just something that's gonna be quick? Will this product work? Will it not? How are they buying the product? How are they even seeing it? Who are they seeing it for from like all these things are constantly going through my brain of, you know, what's the human psychology? When you're, when you're thinking about health.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

And there's thousands of companies that pitch. I know Albert and I annually I pick maybe one to invest in Max or him and I will start something.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

It's a lot of sitting back. It's a lot of sitting back and watching and not being. You don't always have to be the first to market, you know, let someone else be first to market. See if it even works. You know what I mean? See if it's just a trend, a fad. Is it just, you know, is there studies behind it? Is this something, is it too early, is it too late? You know what I mean? I think how I vet and I'll speak for me because Al's not here but is this something that will last for 100 years? Is what I think about when doing companies, when starting investing in businesses. If it's not, then I probably won't get involved. I'm not looking for a quick win. I'm looking for a legacy. And that's the truth. Could I launch a tallow lotion right now and probably make 10 million bucks? Probably. Could I go, you know, could I hopped on cryotherapy trend? Probably, you know, could I jump on, you know, this whole colostrum trend? Probably. Do I think these things are going to be around for another 100 years? Probably not. I think they're like these quick five year wins that people are trying to do, you know, a quick money grab which is, you know, whatever, you know, do what you need to do. But I think when I look at businesses I want to be a long lasting, you know, 50 to 100 year, you know, biz.

[Interviewer]

One thing I think across, I mean dude, I'm personally a huge believer in rhythm. Thank you. When I saw that business I was like that just is going to explode. Thank you. I mean at home, diagnostic, painless blood work and then obviously there's gonna be pri. I mean you get your blood work done and Then you can go buy Pro Mix, right?

[Devin Levesque]

I mean you could sell 100% or buy whatever you need, right? And I think the thing at rythm, I have one partner, Robbie, he started the biz. I came in after he started.

[Interviewer]

So did he come to you as like a hey invest?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, he wanted me to be his co founder. He had the whole backend infrastructure set up, HIPAA compliant, you know, CLIA certified, you know, this, this, the whole logistics, we own the lab, everything from A to Z. He just needed awareness, growth, a microphone. And so he came to be, to be the co founder.

[Interviewer]

How's that business going right now? Exploded rocket ship.

[Devin Levesque]

It's, it's crazy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

It's the fastest growing business I've ever been a part of, I've ever seen. I was an early investor in Olipop. This is growing faster. Like this is insanely, this is, it's insane how many people are using rhythm and it's, and it's.

[Interviewer]

Why do you think that is?

[Devin Levesque]

There's many reasons. I think when I was a kid and I thought of the future, I thought of flying cars. Now I think of the future, of when I think of future, I think knowing every little tiny thing that's happening inside your body and being able to live to 150 like we're living in it right now. And I think this is bridging that gap. Whoop Is bridging that gap. Oura Ring's bridging that gap. These personalized health devices are bridging that gap to people understanding what's going on inside their body, making adjustments and taking what they need to take rhythm. We don't have an opinion on health. We don't. If you're doing keto, if you're doing paleo, if you're taking peptides, if you're taking vitamins, we don't care. We just want to give you the data of what's happening inside your body in the most simple, easiest possible way. And that's why you put it in your arm, you click a button, fill up a vial, you send it into our lab, you get the results in 24 hours. It's quick, it's easy, there's no needle in your arm. It's so simple. I think the reason it's exploded is because people are competitive with themselves. They wanna know, okay, if my testosterone's at 500, how can I get it up to 900 by next month? Okay, I got it up to 800, how can I get it up a little bit more?

[Interviewer]

Are you Guys layering in the recommendations.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, there's AI.

[Interviewer]

There is like kind of AI concierge.

[Devin Levesque]

There is, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Nice.

[Devin Levesque]

But we don't tell them what companies.

[Interviewer]

I thought was really interesting you said that. We don't have an opinion. You know, we're just the data layer. Yeah. We're just gonna give you the facts.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah. When you go into Quest or LabCorp, they're not trying to upsell you, you know, peptides at, you know, when you walk in, or they're just like, here's your blood. These are the results. The problem is.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

You know. Yeah, yeah.

[Albert Matheny]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

Quest peptides coming soon.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, definitely. I wouldn't. I wouldn't be surprised.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

But you go in and you trust the data. The problem is the. The. The customer experience at those places are brutal.

[Interviewer]

Oh, it's terrible. You know, the most sterile thing of all time.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, you feel like you're in trouble, like, just for being in there.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is this a drug test or am I trying to, like, you know.

[Devin Levesque]

Right. And so. And they're taking the six vials of blood and it might take an hour.

[Interviewer]

They're passing out.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

You're taking time to go there. Come back. So we just. We've simplified that process for people. And so I think the simplified process. People are competitive with themselves.

[Interviewer]

Is that business growing purely organic right now? Are you layering in paid and influencer and stuff like that?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, we have paid quite a bit

[Interviewer]

of paid full entire marketing stack.

[Devin Levesque]

Hundreds, if not thousands of creators on Nice that wanted to come up.

[Interviewer]

I bet the inbound interest was. Yeah. Talk about. I mean, I'd love to hear more about, like, just because Pro Mix has a great ambassador program, it sounds like rhythm is building that. Like, how do you go about building, you know, a creator army promoting your products? Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

You know, 10 years ago, the way that you brought on influencers was you'd send them product and they'd just post. They didn't really know their worth. Five years ago, you give them a code, they get commission, they have to post their channel. Now you can somewhat help assist creators in how their content's going out, whether you're helping with the editing, whether you're helping, not so much scripts, but giving them talking points and educating them on what the product is. And so they get more in depth, you know, with you at the company and then giving sweat equity, no pun intended. Like, for real. Like, it's. It's. I think the evolution of creators has gone much deeper than just posting to their channel. It's now, like a lot of these creators want to be partners. They want to be a part of something, they want to grow something.

[Interviewer]

They don't want when they're sharing their trust.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, they don't. Yeah, correct.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

They don't want to just post and get a bunch of likes and views and whatever. Like they want to, they want to help build. And so we, we give everyone that opportunity. You know, the better that they do, the, the better we do with, with their content, the better they do.

[Interviewer]

I think a lot of our listeners would actually be super curious and like some of those deal structures, like everyone's different. Yeah, everyone's different based on the tier of influencer and like.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, yeah. So you know, if you're signing a, you know, an A lister or a B lister. Yeah, you might be tapping into your equity pool. You know, normally it's 5 to 7% you have, you know, on the side for, you know, C suite execs or celebs you're bringing onto the brand or high, you know, high converting influencers. So there might be a little sweat equity deal there. Then right now you can get 10% commission on whatever your ad spends. And so if, if a creator and

[Interviewer]

you guys are using Tribe for that, right? Tribe, yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

And so if, yeah, so if you're submitting content and you're a user of our product and we approve that content and it goes out and it generates $100,000 of sales, you're making $10,000.

[Interviewer]

It's the craziest opportunity that's ever existed.

[Devin Levesque]

It's unbelievable. I mean, we have creators that have 500 followers. We just paid someone last month. She created $150,000 worth of orders with her one video. She has 500 followers. Literally 500 followers, and we just gave her 15 grand. That's life changing for people, you know. And so like, you don't have to be like an A lister or like a macro influencer or whatever. Like these are just regular people that are using our product that are like, I want to talk about it.

[Interviewer]

And for the creators, that video can keep going.

[Devin Levesque]

Oh yeah.

[Interviewer]

It might run it up to 300k next month. Like it just, it's an ad. So I mean, it's unbelievable. Moment in time.

[Albert Matheny]

Correct.

[Devin Levesque]

And like, you know, we want to support the creators in the edits and making sure they have the product and educating them. I mean, we have calls with the creators all the time. Just the lab industry is confusing. Right. And so we have to educate. They're interested. It's ongoing education. On what biomarkers do we have? How does the process work? What is this even doing? What do you do if your B12 is low? What do you do if your testosterone's high and you're a female? What do you do in these cases? And so it's constant educating. And I think that's probably one of the more fun parts of the business. Like it's. Your brain is just expanding into understanding what personalized health really means. And so it's just educating the creators. But the creators that we bring on have unlimited upside. You know, the more, the better the content they create. The more content, the more that they're, I don't know, invested into the company.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it in turn, it like it gives them the proper incentive to try and produce that banger.

[Devin Levesque]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

Right. Cause if they don't have that and you're like, hey, I'll give you $300 flat fee for your video. Okay, cool, I'll just submit it to you as soon as I can. We're done. Right.

[Devin Levesque]

And you know what? That worked two years ago.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, exactly three years ago.

[Devin Levesque]

You're like, oh, I'll give you a thousand bucks for a video. Right? You're a user.

[Interviewer]

Cool.

[Devin Levesque]

You want to make a video.

[Albert Matheny]

Great.

[Devin Levesque]

Here's a thousand bucks. Now there's unlimited upside. And by the way, it's probably going to change in a couple of years. You know, it. You have to. I think the key to marketing within that's worked for Promix and Rhythm is staying relevant and staying ahead of what's happening on meta, on Google, on, you know, on within, AI chatgpt, cloud. You know, ads marketing is. Is. Are billboards working? Is email marketing working? Is sms? You know, like when I look at marketing as a whole, you know, there's. There's seven, like main marketing avenues. Email marketing, text guerrilla marketing, word of mouth ads that breaks out into multiple different avenues, events, you know what I mean? Like, there's multiple. It's understanding what levers to pull at what time based on what's happening in culture, what's happening in meta updates, what's happening in. Is the world getting saturated with all these brands? Is there trends going on? And so you just have to stay relevant on what levers to go up and down. And I think we did that really well with Pro Mix. We literally did not do any ads at the beginning. Zero. It was all organic. The event lever was up, the word of mouth lever was up, the community lever was up. We just started emails. So that lever was up.

[Interviewer]

It's Interesting you say that because I think a lot of people, especially in the last decade, rush to paid to be the first lever because it's the quickest dopamine hits, quickest roas that you can get out of anything. But you just kind of made a good point. You're not advertising just because you're not spending on paid. There's all these other things that you can kind of do at the beginning.

[Devin Levesque]

I agree.

[Interviewer]

And you know what, which build trust long term and actually probably increase your LTV to those customers because I mean, retention is the name of the game in the supplement space, really anything. And if you're going to build trust up front, those guerrilla marketing, those community building initiatives, that's a lot more trustworthy stuff to invest in. And then those customers are going to stick around with you a much longer time. All right, so over the last two years of building Nibble, shipping nearly 8,000 UGC ads, and getting performance data on every single one of them, it became super clear there are two types of brands. Those that understand creative volume and those that don't. The core difference was what they focused on. Brands that focused on volume plus hit rate were never complaining that Meta changed the algorithm. Their stuff just worked. And anytime we did work with one of those savvy brands, it was always on the same platform. Motion. Motion is by far the best tool to optimize your creative pipeline, provide structure, visibility and insights that your creative team needs to make better decisions. I like to think of it as like what Meta would actually show you if they cared about your success. All the key metrics like 3 second stop rate, winning angles, formats, competitor research, it's all built into their platform so you can make quicker and better decisions. They even just launched their new AI agent, Runneth, which functions as a 24.7creative strategist, providing recommendations to your ad account. Y' all make sure to go check them [e-mail] all right, it's get back to the episode.

[Devin Levesque]

If I start a new company right now, like a random company. If you and I are like, all right, let's start a T shirt company, I'm gonna post on social or send an email out and say I need a hundred people who want to be a part of my new business. You know, I'd love feedback. You're gonna get free merch or free, you know, you're gonna get free product and I just want you to test it out for 60 days before I even launch it.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

You know, like I'd have a hidden website. I'D help them go through the process, order the stuff. They get all free stuff, they try it out and then I'd get their feedback right. And then I'd do another iteration and I'd do it again for another 30 days with the same hundred people. And then I'd probably do it one more time. And at that point I've. Now I understand what the product is. I understand what people are saying, why they were enticed by it. Now I, now I have.

[Interviewer]

It's like a marketing bible. Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

Now I know what type of marketing material we need, why people are coming, you know, into the product, what people are saying about it. You know, if they, if I'm doing a T shirt company and they're like, man, I love the shirt, like, it's a cool looking shirt, but damn, it's so soft. It's such a soft shirt. Boom. That there's, there's the marketing, there's the ads, there's the emails. It's the world's softest shirt. Right? It's, it is a. So like now I'm leaning into soft because a hundred people, 80 of those people just said soft, soft, soft, soft, soft. You know, and so I think it doesn't have to be zero to a million. It needs to be zero to like, I don't know, like 1% and understanding who your audience is and what your product is and then you can spend effectively and efficiently versus just going to spend a million bucks on ads and you don't even know if they're going to work or not.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You know, so one thing that you guys have done really well across all these brands, Monroe Promix Rhythm is like you have a general gender neutral positioning. And I'm super curious, like, is that intentional? Like, did you want to be scientific, trustworthy or how did you go about positioning these brands from the get go?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, always gender neutral. Always, you know, never. I never wanted to launch just like a male focused brand or just a female focused brand. Same with the gym. Like, I enjoy having females and males in the sauna and you know, in the, in the steam more so that

[Interviewer]

I think a lot of people say, like, you want to go like hyper niche these days. Everyone's kind of like, oh, you want to lock in on a target customer. Like, I want to sell to, you know, moms in, you know, the Midwest. Right. Or I want to sell to like young fathers or something like that. But y' all have purposefully kind of gone the other direction.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, I think sex sells.

[Interviewer]

Mm.

[Devin Levesque]

It's like the most common marketing term ever, sex sells. Sex doesn't happen, you know, without a male and a female. You need to approach, you need to approach it from both sides. And especially in health and wellness, Equinox, I think, does an amazing job with it. I think within Pro Mix, like, we don't want people to just think, oh, this is a male focused brand or female, like, no, this, everyone can take this. Your whole family can take it. Your friends, your mom, your dad, everyone, you know, and so neutral colors. It also, I think from a marketing, like copy perspective, it gives you two different alley ways to go down. Right. D Bloat impacts women maybe a little differently than men. They use it, you know, in, in different ways. Right.

[Interviewer]

Are you creating different funnels for different Personas?

[Devin Levesque]

Sure, for sure.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

I would say there's probably five Personas that we have with Pro Mix. Probably five Personas we have with rhythm and like, yeah, you target out each one. You know, the female that lives in Kansas City, that's 25, that goes to yoga each morning, she makes, you know, 100,000 a year. You know, she's, you know, maybe dealing with a little acne and like, boom, that's a real Persona, you know. But I think from a male and female perspective and why we've kept it neutral, I think that's just our vibe. You know what I mean? I've never wanted just a male focused brand or just a female focused brand. There's 8 billion people in the world. Why would you cut your audience in half?

[Interviewer]

Totally.

[Devin Levesque]

That doesn't make sense to me.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

And I get getting niche, but it's the same thing with like, people are like, well, why haven't you launched Pro Mix running gels? Well, it's just a very small addressable market. Like, very small. Like, obviously if you're a runner, yeah, you see gels everywhere. But like, that's a super, super, super small.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

I bet you people watching it, 3% of the people actually take gels. You know what I mean? How many people take protein? How many people have a gut and focus on gut health? Probably 97% of people, you know. So, like, you have to understand the addressable market, male and female. You just immediately open the addressable market and you're making it approachable. Not too feminine, not too masculine. I'd say both brands, rhythm's a little bit more male heavy right now, but pro mix is 50. 50.

[Interviewer]

Do you think that's. Do you think that's more of indication of the broader, like blood testing?

[Devin Levesque]

No, Market or rhythms, positioning? No, it's, it's when we first launched, I brought more males onto the biz, like from an ads perspective. And, and we did quite a bit of Ironmans at the beginning. We sponsored Ironman and so that was just a more male heavy audience. And so naturally it was more male, but women's is now skewing quite up.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. And then so with Monroe, like that's hospitality. It's kind of your bread and butter. And we have the other guy, Albert, just got here behind Monroe. Earth right here. What's up baby? How you doing? Welcome, welcome. Little bit of traffic today in New York City.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, yeah, it was nice. Six hour travel. Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

Al, let's talk on Monroe. We were talking on like why we're so gender. Why we're so gender neutral.

[Albert Matheny]

I don't even see gender.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, I don't even.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

Like, I don't know. I said like sex sells. Like, I don't know, like. And you can't have sex without male and female. Really.

[Interviewer]

I just think of like, you know, I mean, I'm sure you've seen like Mars men, right? Like they're like hyper, hyper masculine. And then like, you know, you contrast that with some other ones that'll be like hyper feminine, like a happy mammoth. So I was more so saying, I think what's cool about you guys is you went scientific trust, gender neutral positioning and that's allowed you to. To your point, it's like everyone's got a gut problem. So now we're just positioned to win on. Well, we're just the cleanest and we have this unique mechanism.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Interviewer]

I was curious if that was like something you did intentionally or just kind of like materialized over time.

[Albert Matheny]

I'm sure Devin probably said some variation of this, but I mean, I guess like big, big picture framework, like when we think about the products we want to make, the places we want to create and how it all feeds together, that there's not like a. We're pretty open to everybody. That's kind of been our point of view. Like the stuff that we work on represents how him and I are in general. So we're kind of just happy with everyone and we don't feel like it needs to be really specific. It just needs to be to our standards of quality and benefit to the world and all that type of thing. So I think that inherently just has like, doesn't have like a specific niche in it. And we think it can reach a lot of people like whatever we're working on. And that's like across anything that we do, I think.

[Interviewer]

And is that like kind of your product ideation framework, like how many total people, like size of the product, like the addressable market?

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. And that's not even from a business side. It's just what we like to work on.

[Interviewer]

Because I think you've come up, I mean, y' all have a great product suite and I think our audience can really benefit from just hearing, like, what is your step by step process for like arriving at what's a good product to sell?

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, I'll touch on that one thing. Like, you know, I'm friendly and I think Ben from Marsman is great. I know his co founder's a killer.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah.

[Albert Matheny]

I think a lot of times, you know, there's not like a harder or easier, but like if you have a more defined product, it's easier to just say, this is what we do. And it's like very specific and you know who you're marketing to. Like, I think they have a very clear customer focus and I think that can lead to extremely fast growth. A lot of times, which they've had, I think a lot of times, like with Promix and then other projects, it's, it's like a platform and we know that we can build upon that. And so there's this big base. But because it appeals to a wide range of people, you can't just have like one message necessarily, or it doesn't cut as deep. With that message is like, you know, with Pro Mix, it's no artificial anything. Like that represents a lot of aspects of the company, but it doesn't, you know, it's not like, hey, this is Marsman, you know, or something where it's like very targeted and you know exactly who you're talking to. When the products, when we think about products, it's, you know, a big part of it is ingredient quality and efficacy. Those are like the two words that always pop into my head. And you know, Devin's told the story with the baobob and him finding that really as an ingredient and then building a product around that, the goat, which is cool.

[Interviewer]

One goat donation and then all of a sudden you got $100 billion business,

[Devin Levesque]

yeah, go find a goat.

[Albert Matheny]

But that's like the base framework is how can we. We never want to make something that kind of already exists in the market that we don't think moves the market forward and helps people so that it's easy for us. We're not good at. I'm, I have an inability to like tell you you need something if you don't really need it or don't think it's actually the best. And so for us, we don't feel good about a product unless we know that it's, like, the best version of what you can get from that product.

[Interviewer]

And as far as, like, sourcing the problems, because I think one thing you said earlier was, like, you guys both had this data set, almost real world clientele. Yo, I. My gut's messed up. Like, I need something to fix it. Like, okay, well, we have the right product. Like, do you have any other ways of kind of researching trending problems right now? Because you guys have a lot of hero skus right now. But, like, I'm sure the next tranche of growth could come from getting into, I don't know, like, stress or calm or something like that. Like, how are you kind of looking at that roadmap?

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, I think, you know, Dev and I have a really good dynamic, and we look at kind of different things, and they often come to the same answer from different points of view. Devin's got his pulse on a lot of stuff, and he's really aware of that. And I kind of look at science things. I see what other people are interested in. People ask me health questions all the time, so I think both of us get that. We're getting little early signals about, hey, people are asking about this more. We kind of, like, get general health questions.

[Interviewer]

Is there anything y' all are, like, pretty excited about right now about tackling?

[Albert Matheny]

I think one of them is, again, kind of like a new category for us, which is in liposomal, because, you know, we've seen that as an interest for people, and that all is rooted in not people. Customers don't necessarily choose things based on, like, what's best for them. It's often just, like, form factor and ease. Like, we're, you know, we live in America. Like, convenience is. I think, number one. People like things that taste good. I think Groons is a great example of a product that tasted good. It's a snack for first. You know, that's kind of how people position it.

[Interviewer]

Fiber and a gummy bear.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

1.2 billion.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, I was gonna. No, I was just gonna say, like, the. Because you. You're asking the pulse of, you know, how we. I think I'm pretty saturated in culture. And, like, I'm. I'm seeing kind of. I. I used the analogy earlier. Like, I'm in the trenches. I'm showing up to these events. I'm meeting new people. I'm Showing up to the, the, you know, the, the private equity get togethers with, you know, 20 billionaires, and they're all talking about what's next, what they want to buy, what they, you know, what, what they're doing. And then I'm also at like, you know, diplos event or, you know, I'm, you know, I'm at, you know, some other, you know, influencer event or a lot of tastemakers. But then I'm just at a, you know, a coffee shop and I'm just overhearing some shit. Like, I'm just in it, I'm hearing it. And so I have that, like, real life in the trenches pulse, right? And then he has a scientific pulse. And so when you combine those two things and then just our backgrounds, you know, we both play college sports. We both come from a very healthy background. We both believe in, like, get sunshine, eat whole foods, first and foremost. You know, move every day, take care of your body, take care of your skin. Like, very holistic approach to health. And so we have the same approach to health. But then I'm seeing like, the more culture side, what's. What people are talking about, he's seeing the more scientific. Like, he's always reading real studies on what works and what doesn't. So I could call him and I'm like, yeah, what do you think of this whole colostrum thing? Should we do a colostrum? And he might be like, you know, I think it's just a fad. You know, I'm reading stuff. Like, I don't know if that's scalable. I don't know if this is actually impacting xyz. Like, I say we put that on pause. But, like, what I am seeing, Dev, is like the liposomal. Like, there's real studies behind this. There's, you know, this can actually impact people. Like, Dev, go do your thing for a couple weeks and see what you find as well. And then we come back together and we're like, okay, cool, let's do these three products in this space from what we. And it's literally just. It's like, we're not Harvard grads. We're not like, going back to the fucking boardroom. And like, I don't think we've ever

[Interviewer]

written on a board game. But weirdly enough, I think the fact that you're not necessarily Harvard grads does actually work better in today's day and age. Like, I think your credibility stack is more so lived experience.

[Albert Matheny]

Right?

[Interviewer]

For sure. Instead of, you know, oh, well, I was in A lab for seven years. And now, trust me, it's like, no. Like, we're two bros who are, like, in crazy health. And, like, this is exactly what we do to get there.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And weirdly enough, I do think that's kind of the new age credibility. You know, I think that's really where it comes from, is lived experience. Like, did you guys ever, you know, I'm sure there's been a lot. Like, you just ran a clinical trial, for example.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I'm curious, like, if you're a brand starting out, would you recommend they go sort of more your credibility route, where it's like, I'm this person, I've lived this experience. Or should they launch with maybe more scientific proof, maybe more doctors?

[Devin Levesque]

I think it depends on the product that they're launching, you know, and what, what category you're launching in.

[Interviewer]

Say it's like, I mean, I think, you know, Lemmy has obviously done a very good job of like, lemme curb, right? It's a GLP1 mimetic, right. There's a lot of these memetics are coming out right now because the peptide space is so high. Like, I don't know if Lemmy is really referencing a lot of clinical trials. I think they're just saying this is going to reduce your appetite. And I'm, you know, is it Chloe or Kourtney? I don't even know, but one of the Kardashians, you know, she's like, look at me. Like, I look hot, right? You want to look hot?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you, you can take a couple approaches to it. One is a much more brand. Like, let me throw up the brand on your face. And you'll see it everywhere. It's like cool colors, cool logos, cool people on brand, they create a little fomo. They create a little, like, this is the fucking coolest thing since sliced bread. Like, you gotta do it. And then there's the other side, which is like, no, this works. This is clinical.

[Interviewer]

It's almost like a thorn versus a lemme.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Like, Thorne is just like, hey, we are physicians, by the way.

[Devin Levesque]

Both brands are doing great, for sure. So it's. I, I. So I genuinely think it just, it depends on what direction those founders want to go. Yeah, I think we've taken the approach of, like, both.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

You know, we, we kind of know what's culturally relevant.

[Interviewer]

Cool.

[Devin Levesque]

Like, what we would take, and then we also take the science approach. So, like, that's us. But like, we're just, you know, uniquely. We were uniquely Given those cards, meeting, you know, obviously meeting each other and building Pro Mix and like that's just the cards we currently have. But like if him and I both came from say an agency background and I was a graphic designer and he, you know, creates logos and, or a photographer or whatever, like we'd probably have a much more brand centric that by the way, could probably work extremely well. But I think with my background, his background, this is just the mixture that works for us. And I think as a founder you just have to understand what your strengths and weaknesses are. Like I'm not trying to be a graphic designer. I'm also not trying to be a scientist. I like to adventure, I like to climb mountains, I like to run marathons. I like to feel good and healthy and then use the products that we create for all that. And that's my unique approach to it. He has his unique approach to it. Running track for Team USA Florida, being a dietitian, reading all these studies. Like he fucking likes. He likes to read the studies. I'm not reading the studies. He gives me the spark notes on the studies. But like he likes doing that. And so like he's playing into that strength. I play into my strength and then we combine. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about it though.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Albert Matheny]

I mean, yeah, I think. Yeah. To your like, original question, that made me think of like what worked with Pro Mix and why did it work? And it's always a combination of that stuff. I think like the lemme example is really great. Just to note on their stuff they use, they can, you can bypass doing clinicals if you're using branded ingredients and that's kind of their play. So they use branded ingredient. Yeah, yeah, but. And then with Thorne, you know, they built up their brand through a different channel because it was a different time that they built their brand and then they're trading off that, that brand equity that they have. And we always view ourselves as like the next generation of Thorn because yeah, that, that has been like in our heads for a while because I totally agree too.

[Interviewer]

You're like a, you're like a sexier version, right?

[Albert Matheny]

Because it's, it's more marketing. They built themselves through, you know, doctor channels, retail especially retailers, all that type of thing. And they, they kept this kind of like high bar of like it's kind of almost through a doctor and then they were able to build that into a brand that they're able to trade off now. But, but their consumer demographic is older people still trust it. But the younger people want a brand that also relates to them and sells to them. But more, Thorne doesn't really sell. They're not in touch with that.

[Interviewer]

They would just sell like baobab extract. Right.

[Albert Matheny]

There's not like a story.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, there's no story to it. So one thing that I think, I mean, you guys have gone through an acquisition recently. That information's public. I don't really wanna get into the numbers. I'm actually much more curious about how that sort of changed how you operate the company and the vision for it. Because once a company comes in, takes a big chunk, we're gonna get you into retail. We're gonna scale this thing across all these doors, et cetera, et cetera. The goals kind of change. What is kind of the next phase of growth look like for you guys? Is it retail? Is it new products? What's kind of the.

[Devin Levesque]

I'll also say with that, with the partners, we brought in, Payne Schwartz, Kevin Schwartz, the main partner at psp. I used to train him a few years ago. Yeah. And so he was a client of mine. That's full circle. And then James, who helped put the deal together, is also a friend. So there was them, and then there was a couple other people looking to come in and partner with us. But I think when Albert and I looked at it, we weren't necessarily looking just to sell a big chunk in the biz. We were just looking for guys that we could. Or guys or girls that we could just vibe with and grow this with. And we have the same vision. And they're not gonna try to make us, you know, fix what's not broken, change the formulations. And so they're just good partners. They're not. You know, obviously, if the business was doing bad, they'd come in and, you know, of course, try to adjust, but, like, it's business as usual, you know. And that, I think was our goal with it is like, let's continue to run it together and grow this thing and continue to help people and come out with products that we want to come out with. And that's the autonomy they really give. And so I think I just wanted to say that because, you know, a lot of the times you sell or, you know, you know, a chunk of your company, and, like, you do have to switch things up. There's different titles. A new CEO comes in, a new cmo. They try to switch up the whole, you know, profitability projections. Like, everything switches up. They still give us full autonomy. And that's why we chose them as partners and it's, you know, we've been partners with them for almost, you know, almost two years, year and a half. And so I think. I don't know, I think that that was just like a really positive outcome.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, it's amazing.

[Devin Levesque]

But the next phase, well, and then

[Interviewer]

you guys, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's aligned incentive, right? Like, they, like, obviously took a part of the business, but there's a lot more once you guys continue to smash it. Of course, that's why it's so important to have that type of partner where, you know, because everyone thinks like, oh, like you sell a business and that's just kind of it, right? It's like, no, most of these deals, like, particularly, obviously what's going on with nutribullet Bloom, it's like, yeah, there's upfront cash, but, like, if you smash it, there's a big, big upside, for sure. That's what happened with you guys, right? Same thing.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, there's always upside, for sure. Big upside.

[Interviewer]

Have to have that aligned.

[Devin Levesque]

Right? And like, who. Who's going to know the business more than us? You know what I mean? We've been, we've been doing it for years. And so, yeah, I think we're. We're just trying to continue to grow it and reach as many people as possible and continue to come out with good products that we enjoy that are going to be around for decades to come. You know, not just quick, quick, you know, money grabs. Like, real, real legit products are going to help people. So I think that that's a big one. Continue to grow the team, build a strong infrastructure behind the team. Everything in house, everything, everything kind of just flowing. And then I think, continue to tell them the story of where we're getting all of our ingredients from. I think that that's a big core of who we are. You know, whether it's going out to the Unimac islands of Alaska to get our fish oil or to Africa to get the baobab or New Zealand to get the, you know, our beef liver or protein or, you know, we, we enjoy telling those stories. I like to travel. I like to, you know, be out there in the field and just, you know, telling that story. And I know he likes formulating products. Like, to be honest, if we sold the business or not, we'd probably still be doing this. You know, like, it just, it's just fun, you know, and so, I don't know, that's my perspective on kind of where it's all going. Yeah. I don't know your thoughts?

[Albert Matheny]

No. Yeah. Paint Sports has been great. They are focused on like Deb said, Kevin is someone who used our products and they like it because it's a good quality. So that was a big thing where it was like, you know, they're not going to change the quality and then they saw what our vision was and just are there to support it, basically. So it's as, as Dev said, like business as usual. And that doesn't mean retail right now. Like, we get to a certain scale, I think it makes sense. But we, we know the channels that we know now and I think that focus is really important. And I think a lot of times you see brands like push the retail button if things are not going well in other channels and you need to kind of like keep, keep the number, number go up kind of vibe. So we know our channels and we. There's a lot of green pasture left in those. And, you know, you can continue to educate people digitally and it's a lot easier to pivot, change things like control the messaging and all that versus, like going through, you know, in retailers you're, you're moving through their systems and things,

[Interviewer]

which are pretty, almost like a new business.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, it really is.

[Interviewer]

Like now you already know. We are super skeptical on this show about most AI tools promising the world. They have flashy demos, huge promises, and ultimately underdeliver. But I do have to tell you about one that has blown me away and saved my team countless hours of time. And that's rich panel. Imagine a 24.7customer support engine that handles all of your tickets seamlessly, escalates anything requiring human intervention. And here's the best part. Upsells your customers in the process. Their onboarding process is frankly one of the craziest things I've ever seen. You input your brand and within 15 minutes it has full context on the latest, drops product information and plugs into all of your apps. That's not even to mention the cost savings. They're like three times more affordable than their competitors. I couldn't recommend this enough. So if you're a brand looking to turn support into an asset, go check out richpanel.com and tell them we sent you. And we had Ryan from Neurogam on and like, they just went through a massive, like, packaging rebrand, like change the, you know, packaging that they'd done their first several hundred million in revenue on just because people in retail were like, yeah, we want this to like, eye catch a little more yeah, totally. You know. Yeah, it's like just completely change the nature of the product.

[Albert Matheny]

Right, right.

[Interviewer]

And it's definitely a different beast, for sure. And if you. I mean, that's. That's cool. So what channels are you still super excited about? Like, where do you see a white space for you guys? Like, is it TikTok shop? Is it like an Amazon business? Is it just continuing to grow the D2C subscription side of things?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say I'm bullish on TikTok.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

Amazon, DTC. I mean, those are all three different channels. I mean, TikTok overflows into Amazon, but Amazon and D2C are, you know, there's still so much growth to be had there and people to reach and, of course, whatnot.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

Boutique shops, like, we like small gyms. We're in. Barry's Boot Camp, Soho House one. Hotels one. We're in. I mean, we're in, I'd say, hundreds of these, like, small gyms around the nation, which we love working with. I think that's just more.

[Interviewer]

How'd you guys scale that? Like, how'd you kind of, like, get in those inbounds? A lot of inbounds, people wanna, like, carry the product.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, those are like real customers that own gyms or recommendations or. I'll post and I'll be like, hey, we're going into boutique spots and we'll put our retail. Our retail, I guess, manager on it.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

And she'll help kind of divvy those deals up. But yeah, I don't know. I think those. Those channels.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, I think what Devin said about the boutique things or cool partnerships. Like, we talked about New York and our backgrounds, like having been in fitness and health and wellness for a very long time. Like, we have a lot of random connections to people and different things that it's. It's cool to see all that come together. So a lot of it's like, oh, this. My buddy's opening a gym. This guy knows a gym. That's. And that's, you know, like, where we feel like anything, the stuff that we're working on is all aiding back to each other. Which is cool because it's just stuff that we like to do. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

When you view a gym, is it. Is it like a really good opportunity to drive trial and then ultimately recapture that customer?

[Albert Matheny]

Think about. I mean, like, the retail side is kind of a physical representation of like, you know, we have a very digital brand, and most people, almost everyone sees pro mix from digital first, and then they experience And Devon talks about different touch points. You gotta see it, you gotta have someone refer all that type of thing. But yeah, I think the gym type thing is like a really cool place to show how that brand is embodied in like a different way, I guess. You know, and to get people. It's immersive, you know, it's like, oh, like this is. We try to keep that really high quality bar against anything that we're doing. So it, it all makes sense and it all tracks because it's like, well this fits together with that because this is how that kind of the, the pro Max customer would enjoy a gym. Yeah, you know, of course.

[Devin Levesque]

And it's also the lever, the levers I was talking about. Like, you know, going into a boutique gym is. Or an event or an event pop up is a lever.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

You know, guerrilla marketing's a lever. Email's a lever. Ads is a lever, you know, and I think at the beginning I was saying like we didn't do ads for the first many years of this, like zero ads. It was more just like pop ups. It was word of mouth, it was seating product, it was bringing some influencers on that used the product already.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. And it was, it was through like our, us both being in gyms and like you meet so many people and that's part of like why we did Monroe is like, it's not just a, it's not like, oh, this is going to be a great numbers business. It's a great community builder and it's such a Austin's, you know, now one of those kind of hubs where at least for health and wellness, I would put it very close to a New York or LA or something like that. And the number of people that come

[Interviewer]

through there and they arrest you if you're not jacked.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

On Ladybird Trail.

[Devin Levesque]

No, they do. It's crazy.

[Interviewer]

You don't have that problem.

[Devin Levesque]

It's unbelievable.

[Interviewer]

You haven't got arrested yet. See this guy in the collective locker room. Every day is the best motivation of my life. So let's talk a little more about Monroe. I mean, I think it's like so interesting like this whole new premium wellness experience space. Like we're in the K shaped economy. Right. People either want way better stuff or they want, you know, kind of like the cheap stuff. And I mean my personal theory on obviously we're friends with the guys at K. Like, you know, I think a gym like Kollective could have charged, I don't know, a thousand bucks and most of its members probably wouldn't have batted an eye.

[Albert Matheny]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And that would have unlocked a lot new revenue for them to continue to invest in that business. I think, like, you see this with Soho House. It's like charging 5k a year. Like, could they charge 12 and, like, deliver a way better experience to their customers? Like, how are you guys kind of going about building Monroe as like a premium wellness experience, physical space?

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. I think Devin has a great background. We both were in hospitality as well. We like hosting people. He's a super host. I like running some of the ops and different things like that. But it starts with the people. That's like the main thing. Like, I think that's probably where a line that the quality of a space that's about the community is defined by the people that are in it. That's probably the most thing. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How do you service those people, though? Are there some specific kind of hospitality insights?

[Devin Levesque]

I'll give my quick little rant because I think it's really important. It's how I've always thought about businesses and consumer psychology. If you go into a restaurant and you order grilled cheese, you want the grilled cheese that your mom made you growing up. Like, that's what you're thinking in your brain. You don't want a grilled cheese with 10 random ingredients in it. You're gonna taste and be like, fuck, all right, that's good. But that's not my mom's grilled cheese. You know what I mean? You want simple. You want what you're used to. I think for hospitality and health, it gets really complicated. You're throwing all these things at you. You're like, Peptides, colostrum, tallow. This.

[Interviewer]

That.

[Devin Levesque]

What the. Should I be drinking this in the morning? Should I be taking this at night? This gym, it has 50,000 pieces of equipment. Should I be on this more? It's so confusing. The whole health industry is confusing. So there's confusion, and then there's a price barrier. Then it's like, wait, should I be paying $20,000 a year to have access? Is this actually going to help my lifespan? Is this going to help me as a whole? I think both those. So there's the barrier to entry with money. Right. Cost. And then it's the confusion. I think when you strip those away and you're like, look, we're gonna make it really simple. It's equipment that you understand it's for Monroe or it's ingredients that you understand for Pro Mix. Right. It's just simple. You know it. You can read the Turmeric. You can read the baobab, you can read the organic oranges. Like, you know what those are. You ate those growing up. You're like, oh, cool. That's. I think where pro mix is winning is you just understand it. It's not too confusing. Monroe is winning. And the reason that we have thousands of people on the wait list to come in is because it's simple. It's a sauna, it's a steam room, it's a gym. That's not like crazy equipment. It's just like equipment you expect. There's a nice open outdoor area, bone broth steaks in the restaurant, and a place you can sit down. It's not like we're not upselling peptides. We're not upselling, like, you know, this crazy concierge doctor that's gonna try to upsell you a $10,000 membership for like some blood transfusion bullshit. It's just simple. It's like for him and I, I wanna wake up, I wanna have my deep bloat, I'm gonna have my cold brew. I'm gonna go in, do some weights like I did this morning, maybe hit a little bench, hit a little squats, maybe some lunges, hit the sauna, you know, jump in the cold plunge, take a shower, and I start my day. It's very simple. It's not like I'm not injecting myself with shit. I'm not like over complicating. Like I need to take these 50,000 vitamins. It's very simple. Get some sunshine, make a maybe, maybe call my mom, feel good. Like it's very simple. And I think this whole health industry is making shit so complicated. And we're just trying to pull it back, you know, with the ingredients that we sell through Pro Mix. Very simple. You can read them all on the ingredient list. And with Monroe, it's like, you know what you're going to get. And we're not making the could, you know, could we make the price of entry a couple thousand bucks a month and like really divvy out people. Yes. But we're not judging people based on their income. We're judging people based on the quality of human. They are, what values they have. You know, there shouldn't be a price barrier to the health industry.

[Interviewer]

So with Monroe, you're kind of. You're saying like you're evaluating a lot of the members base, like on a vibe check almost. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

And like, I think, you know, it's like the book, the Secret. It's what you put out in the world is what you attract back. We didn't do a social post for the grand opening. We didn't, like, we sent some messages out to our friends and all of a sudden we have 500 people there that we know personally. We didn't post about, we don't even have post up on social right now because we don't want to. Like we're building the community from within of people that we've known for 15, 20 years. You know what I mean? Like, these are our, this is our, these are our homies. And so like when you've built that reputation, then it's really easy to fill a space with good quality people because what we put out in the world is who we attract back in. And so for, you know, you can take it how you want with, you know that. But like I think we attract good people that we like into the space and that creates the environment. I was saying at the opening speech that we just had, like, it's not like, you know, we're launching with artists and you know, musicians or you know, real estate people. Like, it's, it's. You good? Yeah, we're good. We're, we're, we're not launching based on the industry, we're launching based on the, just the values and the quality of the people in the space, you know, and try not to over complicate it. Like, yeah, you go into a gym, what are you going to do? You just, you probably want a sauna, a cold blunge, some weights. You go in, you put your music in, you leave. You know, maybe you want to shake at the end. It's very simple. You know, it doesn't have to be complicated and there doesn't have to be a, there shouldn't be a price barrier to entry for your health.

[Interviewer]

You know what I mean? I totally agree. I think what I meant by the price thing was more so that like functionally that would allow them to invest more in the quality of the experience. Like have you guys gone to urban golf performance in Austin? UGP sick. I would assume you should honestly like check it out because like it's probably the best hospitality experience I've ever gone.

[Albert Matheny]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

And they just, they cater exclusively to like, you know, I'm working out, doing like some plyo, you know, someone athletic and the guy next to me is like the founder of Solana.

[Albert Matheny]

Right, right.

[Interviewer]

Like this, you know, crypto billionaire or whatever. And they really market to that high end clientele of which I'm not necessarily qualified But I love golf. And so what was crazy about it, though, is, like, dude, you roll up, they come get your clubs out of your car, they get your clubs out of their trunk. There's like four bros that meet you at the door. They dap you up, they're like, dude, you're looking good today. The flow's looking nice. Like, hell yeah, bro. You're the man. You walk in and there's like, seven more dudes at the front, and they're like, welcome in, Brian. You're gonna have a great day today. Super excited for you. And it's so high Touch. It's very, very, very. You feel included. You feel very prioritized and to the point where I'm, like, laughing at these guys. Like, this is ridiculous. You're just gassing. You don't like me.

[Devin Levesque]

That's what Buck Mason does.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Devin Levesque]

Buck Mason loves doing that 100%.

[Interviewer]

Like, they're just gassing you up immediately. Yeah. And I think they're able to do that because, like you guys said, it's all about the people. They hire a very specific person. They hire someone who's excited to do that, but they also charge to a level where they can pay those. You hire a specific person because they're getting paid a good amount of work. And I think a lot of gyms necessarily maybe skip that part. Like, they try and, you know, hire people who. For, like, 40k, 50k, and it's like, well, if this was an 80k hire, would it make your members like it that much more and would this in turn become that much better of an experience? That's more. So the pricing thing. Not necessarily. Like, let's exclude people who can't afford it more so the business is healthier and can then invest in the experience.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah. We've brought in amazing hires that we just attract good people there. And, you know, they're right.

[Interviewer]

And that's the leverage of being great operators, building something people believe in. You know, there's a vision that you guys are kind of portraying, I would say, which is like a. You said it earlier, like, live to 150. Like, total control of your health. Like, Monroe is absolutely like a stack in that overall vision. Right. It's like.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah. And I just think, like, man, life's already complicated.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

We're just trying to simplify it.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

Like, I don't know. Right. Like, it's. Yeah, we're, you know, we don't. It just. Shit's already complicated.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Devin Levesque]

Just, like, simple in front of you. There should be an Easy checkout process. There should be an easy, you know, easy way to get in and out of the gym. There should be an easy way to just go about when you're, when you want to introduce a new habit into someone's life, it needs to be easy because it's nearly impossible to switch someone's habits. And so how the hell are you going to do. How the hell are you going to switch someone's habit to. Okay, they normally wake up, they do their stuff, they go for a run, they go into another gym on the other side of the town. How are you going to switch them to come over here? Well, you're going to make it simple for them. You know what I mean? That's it. You need to make it simple.

[Albert Matheny]

Right. The only thing I'd add on what Dev, when he says simple, I think to me that also means just like honest and straightforward. That's kind of how we are. So I think that's what it's about where I think about materials a lot like that. Like, you know, is it like a real piece of wood or a real piece of metal and then things like

[Interviewer]

straight from Hogwarts right here? Yeah, yeah.

[Albert Matheny]

This is insane. So I think there's a lot of that and I think that's refreshing for people and that's what makes people stick around. You think about, go to Europe or something. And it's not necessarily the flashiness, it's like, oh, like it actually tastes better or it actually has some realness to it. So I think doing the things that are true to us, you end up attracting people that are excited about things. You're working on something positive that brings more people in. But being honest and clear about things I guess is kind of it because there's a lot of brands and companies in all different worlds that can hype it up a ton. Right. I think, you know, Ima or something right now is like doing crazy numbers. They're fucking full gas marketing. They've got messy, they've got. It's Beckham.

[Interviewer]

Unbelievable. The claims are out of this world

[Albert Matheny]

but it's like, I don't know, like I'm just like. I think most people are not as deep in the space where I'm so kind of jaded to that stuff from

[Devin Levesque]

like smoke and mirrors.

[Albert Matheny]

But yeah, I think it's. You can. As long as you keep the gas on, it kind of works. But like, yeah, we're, we like to run businesses that are profitable and you know, self sustaining.

[Interviewer]

I mean a few years from now I think that they'll probably experience some of the after effects of outrageous claims. Right. Like if it doesn't change my life, I'm kind of disappointed. Yeah, totally. If I literally.

[Albert Matheny]

That's the expectation.

[Interviewer]

If I don't become Giannis, then yes, I'm going to blame Ima. Exactly.

[Devin Levesque]

You said it.

[Interviewer]

So you guys are running multiple businesses. I mean several. Between the two of you, how are you blocking off your time? How are you actually showing up for your team members in the way that you want? How are you executing at such a high level?

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, for me personally, I don't take external calls before 11 or after 3 and before 11 I'll do calls with Albert or my other partner at Rhythm, but that's it. I leave that time for internal stuff I need to do, like things I personally, personally need to do and after 3A for things I need to do and then it's just delegating and finding the best possible people for, you know, the roles that you're not necessarily the greatest at. You know, you want to build a team around you that's everyone should really be much smarter than you in certain categories. What are you doing between 11 and 315 minute calls? I use calendly and I send a link to whoever is trying to book and I give them max 15 minutes unless I have a board meeting or unless it's something where we actually need an hour or more. But I'm a big believer in 90 plus percent of the time you can probably get what you need to get done in 15 minutes. Totally or less concentrated.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

I mean some of these dragged out calls, to have a call, to have a call, to have an email, it's just wasted time and it's just not, it's not realistic. When you're building businesses time, you're not getting time back. And so you have to maximize, you know, why are you getting a call? What's the reasoning? Like do we really need to be, you know, in person or on a call for this? Or can we get it done via email? Like can someone else on the team handle it? Like, why do I actually have to be on this 15 minute call? I think about that quite often. I look at my calendar, I'm like, oh, this someone else can handle this. Or I do not need to be on this call or why is it booked in for 30 minutes? We can probably get this done in 10. Or if I see something on my calendar and I'm like, wait, I can literally call this person right now and just sort it out, I'll do That and so I'm pretty efficient with that. I also don't use a laptop really. I'm a cell phone guy. I'm always moving and shaking. I'm traveling a ton. I mean it's just this year alone I've been On I think 53 flights.

[Interviewer]

Okay. You know, like three months into the year, approximately 10amonth. Yeah, more. More.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah. I mean.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. North of 10amonth.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm always moving and that's just that, that's what works for me. Not everyone has high energy or has that opportunity to do that, but that's what works for me. Al's different.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, I prefer to be in the same spot. I just, I'm extremely routine. I don't even think about it like that. It's just what I naturally gravitate to.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. What's the routine?

[Albert Matheny]

Wake up at 4am, have a coffee, work until. I don't want to bore you with all the details.

[Interviewer]

I mean people need to learn. I mean CEOs that are like executing at an extremely high level. I think more people should learn from their routines so they can at least judge what they're doing.

[Albert Matheny]

Right. Yeah. I'll give like the quick note. I caught up with again Ben from Marsman the other day and I go, yeah, you're having a good time. You know, he does a good job putting out what's fun on social and then I know he's a complete like, I'll say like degenerate on work too. Or like literally anytime that that photo and that where he's at is not happening. He's sitting on his computer.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Albert Matheny]

And that's kind of how I am with. So I wake up basically. You know, my schedule shifted to accommodate my family and so I would naturally like to work later at night and maybe sleep in. They don't. That doesn't work. So I have to wake up at 4. I basically just try to work until they get up at 6:30 or something and make them breakfast and that kind of stuff. Dog walk on the dog walk. I'm often doing emails or taking some calls and then I try to get in a spot and try to be unbothered and just work and there's always stuff to do, but I basically just sit on the computer the whole day.

[Interviewer]

That's like 11 to.

[Albert Matheny]

No, it's like so four to six and then walk the dogs, do all that. I'm back on. I'm doing calls and things during the dog walks and stuff. And then I'm physically Sitting at the computer 9 to 5 or 6 and then, then it's all like family time at night and I go to bed at 9, 30 or 10. Yeah, but your, you know, your ability to concentrate evolves over time. The more things that happen. I think the stuff that's helped me has been one, if you have a lot to do, you start to get better at prioritizing. You know, I used to think me spending 10 more minutes trying to figure out the copy on the email mattered, doesn't typically, you know, I think depending on how your brain's built, some people are like throw everything at the wall in a very quick iteration. A lot of people who like to build things maybe get too specific on stuff that doesn't matter. You don't have enough like real world feedback from customers. But you get older, you get better at kind of like locking in. And you know, we both, Devin loves, We both like are excited by like pressure too. You know, like, if we don't have a full schedule, it's not good. Devin, especially like, Devin can't be alone. He'll make problems to then solve them. So it's like, that's the real thing is like, you gotta find that flow for me. Like, we both like things to do. I know I need that. Like, there's some, I would say, legitimate fear around not having things to do that we both have where it's like, it's bad.

[Interviewer]

Like, you know, doing things feels like momentum.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. It's just good to. We like to keep positive momentum. But you just start. I think delegation is extremely important. We know what's important. We do that. Yeah. With the businesses, for me, we put pro mix first and just make sure that works and we get really great people and then we get to niche down farther and farther and what we're really good at. Devin's connecting people. He's doing all this stuff, he's going on trips, creating a story.

[Interviewer]

It's like lining up your prioritization with your capabilities.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's like, yeah, you know, yeah. Maybe you write 8 out of 10 email copy and your email marketer writes 7.5.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. The more you can get away from that because like, the more that I just stepped out of that because it's not what I'm. I can do it, it's just not what I'm best at. And that's where the company's really taken off. You get people who are the best at doing that and they just start doing it and everyone's also happy. So always like, if we're working with people. I always want to know, like, what do you hate doing? What do you like to do? What are you good at? And hopefully the good at and like to do are the same and then you end up working those roles.

[Devin Levesque]

But yeah, I'd say a common theme with both of us is, yeah, we do make ourselves busy, productive. We make ourselves like, we have to, like, like, it's just. It kind, you know.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. I'll give like, just other anecdotes that people are trying to think about. I don't enjoy a lot of stuff. Stuff like I don't watch sports anymore. I don't watch movies, like legitimately, haven't I. Vanilla sky in a movie theater was the last movie I saw a couple when that came out.

[Interviewer]

Was that, Was that like 20 years ago?

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

I also don't watch, by the way,

[Interviewer]

for anyone who does it, by the

[Devin Levesque]

way, I also don't watch sports. I watched the super bowl for like.

[Albert Matheny]

But you're like talking with people. Yeah, you're there because of the people.

[Interviewer]

Literally.

[Devin Levesque]

I don't watch any games and I don't play video games. Like, I. I don't know.

[Albert Matheny]

Like, there's so much time that when I was younger, in college, I would like play Halo and like, I'm like, bro, how many hours did I spend playing Halo? And like. So you actually have the time.

[Interviewer]

Kind of fun to mob on online though.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Halo with the fellows.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, super fun. Like. Yeah. If you're focused on something like, just look at how many different things you do that don't matter. I know for like me having a wife, like, you spend a lot of time, a lot of headspace thinking about how do I, you know, girls and all that massive.

[Interviewer]

Be a good dad, be a good husband, all that stuff. Like, you just genuinely don't have time for these kind of outside distractions or other interests. Right?

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So you gotta like. Well, and then there's the other piece. You gotta make sure that you're happy. Right. I mean, you gotta take care of yourself and like work out and like, you know.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. The consistency is super important. Dev and I both do that. I think a lot of people don't have that. And we both need fitness and health for mental health, you know, like, not in, like, I'm not that kind of guy that talks about that stuff. But, like, legitimately, that's the best thing you can do. Of course, 100%. It's like chemicals, really simple endorphins. It's literally just chemicals.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Like, it's Neuro chemistry.

[Albert Matheny]

Having that consistency every day keeps your energy up, keeps everything going. So just kind of like. Yeah, keeping. Keeping in motion. You're meant to be in motion. So we keep that as, like, a big pillar of it. I think it's hard if people go really spiky. Just like, your sleep. Just like anything. Like, your body gets used to rhythm. And so if you're just kind of in, like, fourth and fifth gear the whole time, and sometimes we go, you know, into sixth gear and it's like, a little too much, and then we got to back it off a little bit. But you got to stay, like, moving.

[Interviewer]

For sure.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

100%.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah. So just fill it up. You got to, like, there's. There literally is always something. I always find myself if I'm. If I'm, like, critiquing a, like, social media story or like, some, like, something that's just like, I probably should. Like, the team is handling that, but it's not that it's minuscule. Everyone has. Everyone has their job and it's important. But, like, I find myself. If I'm critiquing, like, a social, like a something on our story or feed, I'm like, I'm too bored. I need to film.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, he's bored or grumpy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Devin Levesque]

Like, I got to. I got to refocus and, like, go find something else to do.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. If I start tooling around with emails, it's, like, not doing the right stuff.

[Interviewer]

This is this problem. Okay, before we jump, like, one thing. We have a lot of young entrepreneurs that watch this podcast. A lot of people are super established operators as well. I always like to ask our guests, what are some mistakes that you would say you made along the way that people should look to avoid? You can take some time to think about it.

[Albert Matheny]

No, I got.

[Interviewer]

I mean, let me pull out my notes.

[Albert Matheny]

I mean, one that immediately comes up is just make sure you're doing something you really like to do, because it's going to take a lot of your time and, like, effort, and it's hard to. I'm not good at doing things that I don't like. My brain just kind of shuts off. And that's why I do a pretty narrow set of things, because it's what I like to do. I think just like a real world reference. If you're ever in class and you would get sleepy, like, I just get tired when I'm bored. Right. Like, Devin's super high energy. If he's bored, then he's like, not you Know, it's like bad. And then I think the other one is just knowing what you're good at and just finding people that are complimentary. I found that work in relationships, Devin and I are complimentary where it's like a Venn diagram where you overlap in some core areas. But we're very different.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Albert Matheny]

And that means that you all have clear running lanes that you're working in and that you're good at and that you also are comp. You know, you can, you can do more because you've got a wider brush where if like the marketing is going great, great, we can do that. But that's got to have a product that anchors it. And like, so I think that's hard because most entrepreneurs are good at one thing and sometimes it's the right time in the market and everything where it kind of hits. But like often if you find someone else, like a lot of guys that I think we know can really get the eyeballs, but then they're dog shit at operations. It's like you can't keep the product in stock, you're out of stock, you have all these issues. It's like, well, you need someone who's like, doesn't know anything about marketing and just like, is good at like Excel tables and stuff.

[Interviewer]

Exactly. Modeling.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah. Like, so that's what I've learned from. As things grow. But at every stage and obviously when you're younger and you have one person or two people, they have to wear a lot of hats. But as soon as you can get to that point, bring in more people and.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, yeah, I think those are, I was going to say those as well. But on top of that, man, don't take it that serious. Like it's, we're all dying at some point. And I think I see some of these founders put all their eggs in one basket for 10 years. Like all of them, they don't travel, they miss time with their family. Maybe they become a little unhealthy. They, they really go all in on this biz and then maybe they do sell it and you know, maybe they do make a hundred of them million or whatever it is, but then they're out of shape. They, you know, they, their, their hairline's receding, they feel unhealthy. They ruined relationships that they've had. They, they just missed 10 years of their life with their mother or father. Like, they like, don't lose your values and who you are when building a company. You know, I love Jesse Itzler's big ass calendar because it does give you a good way to visualize what your year is. And I always suggest putting adventures and travel and family time and birthdays on it first. And don't fucking miss them, because it really does go by quick. And you're gonna look back and be like, shoot, man. Like, yeah, I have this business and I have a hundred million. But, like, damn, I ruined this relationship. Or I.

[Interviewer]

Well, just moments this up.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah. Like, life. Like you're. You know. And also the second thing I'll say is, like, make sure your intentions are right. You know, everyone wants a business. Not everyone, but founders, whoever's listening. Like, I want a big business. Well, big business means bigger problems. More money, more problems, more employees, more problems. Like, build a business that makes a million bucks a year, cash profit. Like, what else do you need? You know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

Like, build that.

[Devin Levesque]

You don't. You don't need to make a business that's making 100 million a year. You know, profit. Like, it's. It's okay if, you know, what do you need? What's your intention? Why do you want to make money? Like, you know, like, what's. What's the real intention? I know. I genuine. I want. I want financial freedom to host my friends and, like, host my family more. Like, that's genuinely the only reason why I'm not, like, a big. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

That's just.

[Devin Levesque]

That's my material. Yeah, I love that stuff. I love hosting people. So, like, that'll. And I just love building stuff with him. I love health. My dad was a pro weightlifter. My mom was a pro weightlifter. Like, I've been doing this shit my whole life, and so I just. I would be doing this whether I was making money or not. You know what I mean? It's just fun. I host a weekly call with founders, and, like, we talk, and I make no money from it. I just think it's super fun, you know? And so I think it's understanding your intention. And, like, don't forget to have a little fun along the way, because it does go by. I mean, I know a buddy that just sold his company. He made 300 million. And I'm like, how you doing? He's like, I'm good, but my fucking back hurts. And I'm like, yeah, damn. I'm like. He's like, I have, like, a slip something. And I'm like, damn. Like, that's. That's real. That's real as fuck.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, like, not. No amount of money is going to fix the fact that, like, you kind of woke up and couldn't get out of bed.

[Devin Levesque]

Right. And lip none, you know, that that's going to be your first, you know, first thing on your mind. So, I don't know. Fun, intention.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You know, Amazing. Well, guys, those awesome. That was really great. Where. I mean, I guess Devin Levesque on Instagram.

[Devin Levesque]

Yeah, yeah, Devin Levique on Instagram. Levique Levesque, whatever you want.

[Interviewer]

Follow Albert too.

[Albert Matheny]

Yeah, I do a lot of reposting of stuff. My wife and dogs.

[Interviewer]

Promix rhythm Monroe. Sweet Honey Farm. Sweet Honey Farm. Yeah, yeah, check us out. We'll link everything in the description. But I mean, yeah, absolutely.

[Devin Levesque]

Appreciate you, my brother. Good to see you late. That was great.