World-Class Brand Strategist Explains What Makes A Brand Unforgettable

Summary

Sweat Equity – Episode: "World-Class Brand Strategist Explains What Makes A Brand Unforgettable"

Release Date: June 3, 2025

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Sweat Equity, hosted by Alex Garcia and Brian Blum from Marketing Examined, the duo welcomes Tatum, a seasoned brand strategist with extensive experience in the fitness and wellness industry. The conversation delves deep into the intricacies of building unforgettable brands, exploring essential frameworks, balancing strategy with personality, and examining real-world examples of brands that excel in their domains.

1. Evaluating Brand Excellence

Timestamp: [00:00] – [02:44]

The episode kicks off with Alex Garcia posing an essential question: “What makes brands execute at the highest level when it comes to branding and positioning, all the way to their content and experiences?” Tatum responds by outlining a comprehensive four-part framework used to assess brand performance:

• Strategy: This includes market positioning, differentiation, target audience, and unique selling propositions (USPs).

• Voice and Visuals: Encompasses logo, color schemes, typography, patterns, and the overall tone of voice used across communications.

• Execution: Focuses on the practical implementation of brand strategies, such as website UX, call-to-action clarity, content quality, and product packaging.

• Perception and Presence: Relates to how the audience perceives the brand, social proof, community engagement, and cultural relevance.

Tatum emphasizes the importance of not altering what already works for a brand during a rebranding process, ensuring that existing strengths are preserved.

Notable Quote:

“Excellent brands are found at the intersection of structure, strategy, and personality.” – Tatum [00:23]

2. Balancing Strategy and Personality

Timestamp: [02:44] – [03:14]

Alex inquires about the importance of balancing strategy and personality in brand building. Tatum asserts that they are inseparable and should influence each other reciprocally. “Strategy should influence your personality and vice versa,” she explains, highlighting that a brand’s personality should guide strategic decisions and align with their overarching goals.

3. The Role of Execution in Branding

Timestamp: [03:14] – [05:47]

Brian Grimm discusses the frequent disconnect between high-level brand strategies and their actual execution, noting that many content breakdowns of brands like Nike and Apple are not actionable for smaller businesses. Tatum agrees, emphasizing the necessity for lean brands to prioritize execution even if it means imperfection, as strategic actions can outperform highly produced content. She cites Pure Sport as an exemplary brand that efficiently manages resource constraints while maintaining high-quality execution.

Notable Quote:

“Execution doesn't have to be pristine as long as there's a strategic thought process behind it.” – Tatum [04:16]

4. Defining Brand Personality

Timestamp: [08:12] – [16:32]

The conversation transitions to the challenges brands face in defining their personalities. Tatum introduces the "Chaos Chart," inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, which categorizes brands into four quadrants: Chaotic Good, Lawful Good, Neutral, and others. This tool helps brands identify their unique voice and maintain consistency across all channels.

She further elaborates on using brand archetypes—primary, secondary, and tertiary—to add depth to a brand's personality. This layered approach allows brands to introduce dimensionality without diluting their core identity. For instance, Pure Sport operates primarily in the Lawful Good quadrant but incorporates playful elements through secondary archetypes to maintain engagement and relatability.

Notable Quote:

“Your personality should be something people can 'tattoo on themselves,' making it deeply resonant and aspirational.” – Tatum [51:51]

5. Case Studies of Outstanding Brands

Timestamp: [17:22] – [43:44]

Tatum proceeds to evaluate several brands using her framework, providing both commendations and constructive critiques:

• Gooder Sunglasses: Positioned in the Chaotic Good quadrant, Gooder excels in affordability and functionality. However, their mascot, Kevin the Flamingo, lacks the strong, consistent presence needed to enhance the brand's playful image effectively. Tatum suggests that Gooder either integrate Kevin more deeply into their branding or reconsider their mascot strategy to avoid appearing childish.

  Notable Quote:

  “Kevin's a little cringe.” – Brian Blum [18:36]

• Pure Sport: Highlighted as a model of excellent brand execution, Pure Sport seamlessly integrates high-end, performance-oriented messaging with fun, community-driven brand activations. Their rapid content execution, such as their London Marathon campaign, demonstrates how they maintain brand consistency while scaling operations.

  Notable Quote:

  “Pure Sport... have some guardrails to creatively execute.” – Tatum [05:26]

• Bandit Running: Praised for their intentional art direction and deep brand narrative, Bandit Running creates a status symbol around their products. Their detailed mood boards, strategic partnerships, and creative campaigns like Bandit Grand Prix showcase their ability to maintain a cohesive and aspirational brand image.

  Notable Quote:

  “They are creating moments of delight that is difficult to do when you're a smaller brand.” – Tatum [29:32]

• Swag Run Club: An emerging brand from Argentina, Swag Run Club demonstrates effective use of partnerships and creative content. Their collaboration with Puma and innovative content strategies, like branded playlists, indicate strong potential for growth, though monetization remains a challenge.

• Igloo Therapy: Based in South Africa, Igloo Therapy offers a high-end cold plunge product. Tatum advises focusing on aspirational lifestyle messaging to match their elevated product design, suggesting that they move beyond clinical descriptions to appeal to aesthetically driven, affluent consumers.

6. Overcoming Common Branding Mistakes

Timestamp: [43:44] – [55:36]

The hosts discuss frequent pitfalls brands encounter, such as lack of clear identity and inconsistent messaging. Tatum warns against "analysis paralysis" and stresses the importance of executing strategies even imperfectly. She recommends brands to:

• Develop a clear verbal and visual identity.
• Utilize frameworks like the Chaos Chart and brand archetypes to maintain personality consistency.
• Avoid arbitrary trend hopping and ensure all content aligns with the brand’s core narrative.

The conversation also touches on the necessity of integrating organic and paid marketing strategies to ensure cohesive brand perception. Tatum emphasizes that paid ads should reflect the same personality and tone as organic content to avoid confusing the audience.

7. Integration of Organic and Paid Marketing

Timestamp: [53:27] – [56:30]

Alex and Tatum explore the synergy between organic content and paid advertising. Tatum highlights that successful brands like Pure Sport ensure their paid ads mirror their organic presence, creating a seamless brand experience. This alignment reinforces the brand narrative and enhances customer trust and loyalty.

Notable Quote:

“Organic is the nucleus of the brand because it's where people spend the most time with your brand.” – Alex Garcia [52:48]

8. Final Thoughts and Advice

Timestamp: [62:10] – [64:06]

As the episode wraps up, Tatum offers actionable advice for brand founders:

• Start with Strategy: Define your brand's strategy, voice, and personality before diving into content creation.
• Execute and Iterate: Launch your brand with the best resources you have, then use data to iterate and improve rapidly.
• Stay Consistent: Ensure all marketing efforts, both organic and paid, reflect the same brand identity and narrative.
• Embrace Creativity: Even on tight budgets, prioritize creative, strategic executions that align with your brand's personality.

Alex and Brian express their appreciation for Tatum's insights, highlighting the tangible takeaways that listeners can apply to their own branding efforts.

Conclusion

This episode of Sweat Equity offers a comprehensive guide to building unforgettable brands, emphasizing the balance between strategic planning and authentic personality. Through detailed frameworks, real-world examples, and practical advice, Tatum equips brand founders with the tools necessary to navigate the complex landscape of modern marketing. Whether you're a budding entrepreneur or an established brand looking to refine your identity, the insights shared in this episode are invaluable for creating a lasting and impactful brand presence.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• “Excellent brands are found at the intersection of structure, strategy, and personality.” – Tatum [00:23]
• “Execution doesn't have to be pristine as long as there's a strategic thought process behind it.” – Tatum [04:16]
• “Your personality should be something people can 'tattoo on themselves,' making it deeply resonant and aspirational.” – Tatum [51:51]
• “Pure Sport... have some guardrails to creatively execute.” – Tatum [05:26]
• “Organic is the nucleus of the brand because it's where people spend the most time with your brand.” – Alex Garcia [52:48]

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and strategies shared in the episode, providing a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their understanding of effective brand building.

Transcript

[Host 1]

So one thing all three of us do, we're consistently looking at excellent brands, brands that are executing very at the highest level when it comes to branding and positioning, all the way to then their content and the experiences. You've put together a framework to evaluate brands and how well and how good they're executing. Break down that framework and then tell me where you find an excellent brand within that.

[Tatum]

Okay. Yeah. So I mean we've been working with, you know, I have a brand studio that works with fitness and wellness brands for the last six years. And so often when a brand comes to us and they're looking for a rebrand, it's super important to evaluate what's working and what's not working before we accidentally change something that has been working for them or that their people love. And what we always say is, I mean we believe excellent brands are found at this, you know, venn diagram, at this intersection of structure, strategy and personality. Because often you see a lot of brands doing all the right things, but they're so vanilla, like there's nothing to them to kind of grab onto that has this stickiness. And especially in fitness and wellness, I mean the industry's so saturated, right. So you have to have something that speaks beyond, oh, we have the best creatine, no one cares. And so the way that I evaluate a brand, if we're kind of going into an audit is like a four part framework. So first we're looking at strategy. So like market positioning, what makes them clear and different, who is their target audience and like their usp, their unique selling proposition. The next is voice and visuals, which is what I think everyone thinks of. When you think about evaluating a brand, you're looking at logo, color, type, pattern, assets, the visual identity, the tone of voice they're showing up with, Is it unified, is it consistent, is it specific? And messaging, like is there a message, a story, a personality that they bring to the table? The third is execution, which is where I feel like a lot of your all's episodes focus on like the marketing. Like let's see this brand. Like brand guidelines not put to use are just useless. Right? So you know the website, is there a clear UX and call to action, content, experience, packaging, product, like engaging with the brand. And then the fourth and final one is perception and presence. So what is the audience's or their consumer's perception of the brand? Are people talking about it? Is there social proof and then you know, community. Do people actually engage with and love the brand and is it culturally relevant? You know, I think Some of these brands might check a lot of the boxes in all three quadrants. Strategy, voice, execution. But people just aren't talking about it. And, you know, without that, what are.

[Host 1]

You, you know, do you think there's an equal split as to brands need to be equally as focused on strategy as personality?

[Tatum]

I think they go hand in hand. I think it's easy to kind of separate the two, but I think strategy should influence your personality and vice versa. So the personality you're bringing into things, when you're building a marketing campaign, it should be like, let's go personality first. But it's also got to be strategic. Right. So I think you have to hold the two in the same hand.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it seems like the execution piece too, you mentioned. That's kind of like something we talk about on the POD a lot. And I think that's why people like the POD sometimes is because there's a lot of information about branding and how Nike and Apple built the best brand ever is completely useless to this bro that's tried to start his brand tomorrow. And particularly in the space that you work within, you know, there's really not a ton of difference between a lot of these products. You know, the electrolyte space, for example, it's like you are winning Brandon brand almost 90% of the time rather than features and benefits. And so I think there's a lot of evaluation stage, right, where people are like, okay, should we do this? Should we do this? Should we do this? Instead of, like, we just made XYZ happen, you know? Like, I think it's really important to, like, bpn, for example. You're going to a race tomorrow.

[Tatum]

Yep.

[Host 2]

To and like, their events have been so good for building community, for building, you know, those sort of things. So, like, I guess maybe how can people reframe themselves to get more into execution too?

[Tatum]

Yeah, I mean, that's the problem too. Especially if you're working with tight budgets and you're a smaller brand, you have to be able to be okay with executing imperfectly. And sometimes just like, content, like execution doesn't have to be pristine to the brand as long as you've got like a thought process behind it and it's very strategic. There's a goal that you're set to achieve. Like if you publish like a video on TikTok that just has the TikTok script where you're talking like this, it might outperform even something that is highly produced and heavily produced. And I think the same can go for a lot of, you know, like, Brand campaigns, you know, like being okay with, hey, let's go ahead and execute on this thing. Because you have to. There's a saying in tech that all my tech friends say, get it to market fast and iterate faster. So in order to test if things actually resonate with your audience, you have to like, throw things out and test them. And I think the brand Puresport is a really great example of they're throwing things out quickly and I think they're getting to the point where they've got some money that like, it is highly produced.

[Host 1]

They raised a few million dollars. They did like a month, month and a half ago.

[Tatum]

Yeah, but like, you see a lot of their campaigns and they're packing these boxes themselves and like, and they're also taking the opportunity to film themselves packing the boxes themselves. Like, you kind of just gotta. You should have a bias towards execution, but just make sure you're not throwing shit at the wall for no reason.

[Host 2]

In what stage? I guess, Cause you're in the strategy personality Venn diagram thing, I guess. Like, at what point do you recommend something to like, when do you forward it to execution?

[Tatum]

That's a really good question. You know, I mean, I think I always would love to come to like when a lot of startups come to us, I would love to just ground up before they even go to market, do everything. Let's take care of personality building, let's get you a verbal identity, a visual identity. But the reality is a lot of brands don't have that kind of capital or time to invest. So unfortunately they have to start with what they have, the shitty logo, the whatever, and then just start raising. So I think it depends on what kind of money you're working with, unfortunately. But I think as soon as in an ideal world, as soon as you have a foundation of like, okay, we know who we are and we've got it on page paper, we've got a verbal identity, a clear personality. Because if it exists in the founder's head, like that's going to be difficult to execute and will always be changing as the founder is like seeing new trends and wanting to adopt them. So get it on paper, get some semblance of like a brand guidelines together that you know that you can stick within and then just start going to execute. And then, you know, as you get some more capital, then you can come back and work with a really great brand studio and say, here's all of our data now we have tons of data from the market and these campaigns that we've run now Go take that and build a better brand.

[Host 1]

And I do think so many brands missed a mark on a clear identity and personality. There was a brand we were working with, doing, I think, in the. In the ballpark of 10 to 20 million. Right. And when we were running through a content exercise where it's like more of like a brand content exercise, kind of working its way down from the brand's narrative to then actually what we're going to be creating. And when we asked them about the brand's personality, somebody on our team, you know, Briar. Briar actually asked him, was like, hey, would you say your brand's playful and, like, funny?

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And they were. And the guy, I swear, was like, fuck, no, we're serious. Get it done. And then Briar was like, well, then why are the last eight pieces of content that you've published funny skits?

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And it. And they kind of had, like, a moment because of the fact that you didn't define your personality and don't define the identity of your brand. You have no guardrails to play with it.

[Tatum]

Yep.

[Host 1]

And the creative team also has no direction to go towards.

[Tatum]

Yes.

[Host 1]

And I think that's a huge miss. But it's also hard to think about your brand's personality and define it and figure out how to define it. How would you define it for, you know, brand. I don't want to name brands because. So we'll take this part out. But, like, if you're going into. To work with the brain, you're trying to help them establish what that personality is and figure out and define it and characterize it. How do you do that?

[Tatum]

We have a couple different exercises and frameworks that we run brands through, because typically people are coming into things with such a blank page and they say, I don't know. Or sometimes they do know. We are serious, we're not playful. And sometimes it's like, hey, maybe you are. So the first thing I kind of like to start with, I call the Chaos chart. Have you guys seen that chart that has chaotic, good, lawful, evil. It originated in Dungeons and Dragons, but you've probably seen it in a lot of memes. And people use it in Dungeons and Dragons to help establish their character's personality so they know how to move throughout the game, which. Which I think is perfect for brands trying to move in the marketing landscape. And so we try to say, okay, let's look at good and evil and chaotic and neutral. Very tongue in cheek. But, for example, liquid Death, who everyone on a marketing podcast talks about ad nauseam is very. We try not to.

[Host 1]

I know when we were starting out and trying to get views, it was, you know, it was in episode one through five.

[Host 2]

Gosh.

[Host 1]

Then after, then we passed that I was like, okay, we got some traction. We have 10 listeners. It's time to. It's time to move on.

[Tatum]

Everyone on LinkedIn is still talking about Liquid Death.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Tatum]

They don't know that LinkedIn is a.

[Host 2]

Solid like 18 months behind this podcast at least.

[Tatum]

If.

[Host 1]

If not more.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

If not more like a year. Yeah.

[Tatum]

But no, I mean, Liquid Death is a great example of chaotic evil. And I would say a better example might be Pit viper sunglasses. If you've been to their website, it looks like it was built in like 1995 and would give you a virus. There's a. I don't know if it's still there because I think they redid their website. But there's a button when you go to cart and your cart is empty that you can click that says add a bunch of shit to my cart. And it adds $200 worth of stuff to your cart. Like, it's fantastic.

[Host 1]

This is on Pit Viper.

[Tatum]

On Pit Viper.

[Host 1]

Yeah, that's. I like that a lot.

[Tatum]

And then if you go to their website, then you'll get retargeting ads on your like Instagram feed that are like, we're in your house. Like, that's a lot of brands can't do that. But for Pit Viper, that shit really works.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Tatum]

And so. And then for like, let's look at like AG1 or like seed probiotics. They're very lawful good. Like they're here for the good of you. And you know, we're science backed.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Tatum]

You know, we've gotta like follow a.

[Host 1]

Doctor runs our social media.

[Tatum]

Exactly. But there's still a personality there. Right. But it's very like lawful good. Whereas I say like true neutral is like government websites or like corporate clinicians. There's just nothing on it. So we want to position into one of those quadrants. I would say like lawful evil. Like Elaine Norton is a great example of lawful evil. Like, hey, we're going to go. Or maybe even a jocko. Like, hey, you know, fuck you, get up at 5am or like, we're science backed and I'm going to call you out when your stuff is. Isn't science backed.

[Host 2]

We're gonna stitch that real dictator vibes. But like, you kind of like it.

[Tatum]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Like my dictator.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I'm. I'm chopping up that you get up at 5am that's the beginning of the intro. No context, like just serious. What happens when a brand's stuck at like, hey, I sometimes am lawful good, but I want like I also have a little neutral evil and maybe chaotic good. Like how. Because when you ran through cut 30, you probably remember where like we have different tracks. Yeah, right. And then people will be like, well, I want to be a builder and a expert track. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Like you need to stick to one, stick to one. What do you do there?

[Tatum]

A lot of brands are very dynamic and can especially different product lines can show up in different ways, even across different platforms. But to keep things simple, especially for smaller brands trying to execute themselves, that's where we bring in brand archetypes, which is a very cheesy marketing thing. You've probably seen them like the sage, the outlaw, the caregiver. But what I think I tend to look at brand archetypes as like a big three. And so, okay, like in astrology, like what's your sun rising and moon, but like your primary, your secondary and your tertiary archetype. Because when you combine those with the chaos chart, it tends to. Okay, now we're starting to see some structure and dimension to, to this personality. Cause a lot of brands aren't like, we are the outlaw through and through. No, they're not. You know, like we can start to add some structure. So we say, hey, you know, maybe you're a sport performance brand. You're the hero, the explorer and maybe the Sage. Cause we're bringing in some like technology and innovation and you know, science backed. And then we actually exist in the chaotic good quadrant. And like we've got a bunch of memes and like fun, funny things we're throwing around. So all of a sudden it starts to build this world of personality around a brand that you can then start playing within. Like now we have some guardrails to creatively execute.

[Host 1]

One thing we've been doing with, with brands where kind of like you're saying if somebody's very. Let me look at the chart again too. Because we wouldn't use the chart but like if someone's very lawful good, but they wanted to have a little bit of, you know, a little bit of chaotic neutral. Yeah, it's like now we could introduce a character for a campaign, we could introduce somebody for 30 days or for a quarter or whatever that is that and brings that to life. But it doesn't change the entire brand's narrative or how you're perceived.

[Tatum]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

Because, like, this person's here temporarily or they're just like that person in the brand. Almost like any. Any show that you watch that there's that person that. That's the unhinged friend. I'm gonna go with a. I'm about to out myself. But, like, if you've ever watched Outer Banks. Yeah, definitely outing myself here.

[Host 2]

That's cool. Dude, you're married.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's like she wanted to watch anything on your tv. You got plausible deniability.

[Tatum]

That is so true.

[Host 1]

It is.

[Host 2]

Yeah. You're good.

[Host 1]

But there was this guy JJ on it where, like, he was just the guy that was chaotic in this case. Like, chaotic good. I would say, like, chaotic. Yeah, like chaotic good. But it's one character. But it doesn't change the whole perception of the show. And I think brands could do something similar.

[Tatum]

And that's where if you're a super small brand just trying to establish some guardrails, stick to, like, just one and get that right. But if you're a larger brand that's trying to scale, you can add some dimension to your brand by saying, okay, now we're going to introduce, typically, I look at it like, hey, let's go with your tertiary, like, brand archetype. Like, let's lean into the Explorer this summer for a brand campaign. Like, you can lean into that. It still feeds into your overall brand narrative without detracting from, okay, we're going to, you know, way out of left field with, like, the magician or something. That doesn't even feel like us.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

We just had to do this with Jocko because, like, like what you were saying, Jocko is known as being very serious.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And he has that personality where it's hard to break it and break the mold of what he's known for. Right. And. And almost like the internal team as well is like, ah, like, he's seen as like, this, like, mythic individual. Right. And because of all the content he's created, his podcast and all the things that he's done, I mean, he was a seal, like, all of those things. And so for the launch of one of their most recent proteins, it was like a new flavor. It was coffee and donuts. We introduced a new CEO that was like the more playful person and it was the chief experimentation officer.

[Tatum]

Genius.

[Host 1]

Right. And like, with that, we were able to kind of have this more playful personality that even intertwined Jocko, where, like, Jocko is being like the hard ass and on him about it.

[Host 2]

But.

[Host 1]

But, like, this person was then able to play the other side. It was.

[Tatum]

This is so smart. Because what a lot of marketing companies would do is come in and be like, oh, that's right. We want to be playful. Okay. We're going to set up Jocko in a funny skit, and then you're going to, like, kind of ruin this, like, like, demeanor. Demeanor that he's established, which is not what you want to do. So introducing another character is brilliant.

[Host 1]

And now we get to use him whenever. Right? Like, he's a character of the brand. And like any new flavor launch, we get to build skits around him. And. But kudos to the Jocko team because they. They took it and listened and, like, saw it from our POV of, like, oh, okay, if we introduce this, like, they're. That's a. That's a good move for us. What I wanted to do next was you have a giant list here of different brands that, if I had to guess, these are brands that have the potential to be excellent brands. Some of them are already excellent brands, but there's some that are probably maybe doing a few things that you're like, hey, like, I would do xyz. What I would love for you to do is start running through this list. We can spend like four to five minutes on every brand because I think there's a list of maybe 10, 12 on here. Give me Run, Run, run it through your evaluation, run it through your framework and kind of tell me, like, what could they do better? Or if they're doing amazing, like, what are they doing that's amazing?

[Tatum]

Yeah. Let's start with Gooder sunglasses, because I've had my eye on them for a while and I have a couple of pairs of their sunglasses because they're cheap, they're 40 bucks a pop. They mirror what you might get from, like, Oakley. So they're, like, constantly matching whatever trending styles are, but they're easy to run in. They're made to be functional, affordable, fun eyewear. So they have what I would call they fit squarely in that chaotic good camp, which is perfect because they're a more affordable brand. And that's kind of their angle. You can have a lot more fun when you're not trying to be high end. So. So there's so much room to play. Where I think they kind of fall flat is they've got this, like, mascot that they use that's a flamingo like Kevin that they try to introduce in ways that I'm sure is supposed to mirror, like the Duolingo owl. And they'll in the packaging that you're opening, they talk about Kevin packed these sunglasses, but it just doesn't like, they don't use it enough. They either need to go in hard like Duolingo, or they need to like find another lane. Because it just really, it feels almost like too playful and too childish, where I'm almost embarrassed to interact with Kevin the Flamingo person.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Like, I wonder who likes Kevin.

[Tatum]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

I don't really.

[Tatum]

Does anyone?

[Host 2]

I don't like Kevin off rip. I'm out on Kevin.

[Tatum]

And so Kevin's a little cringe.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Because you're right. It's like Duolingo already did this, you know. So if you're not going to twist it, like, this just looks like a direct rip. So if you're not going to twist it and like, or find your new.

[Host 1]

Angle with the mascot, I feel like the exactly the angles with mascots and I'm seeing this even with, with like Hydration brands. Like, everybody's running. If you have a mascot, you're running a marathon in your mascots thing and like everybody's kind of doing it. And I know we're going to talk about pure sport and they did it. And I love pure sport. Like, I love you. Y' all know this. We talk often. But I do think that everybody in Hydration is kind of doing the mascot play. And if you are going to do the mascot play, you have to find your angle and you've got to just.

[Tatum]

You'Ve got to commit to it and have that live in like almost every piece of content. So it's not like, wait, why am I reading about Kevin the Flamingo on these sunglasses I just bought? And I think there's just so much room. They just launched a, it looks like Instagram page for sports Gooder. Like, there's so much room for them to sponsor some athletes. They had like an athlete partnership with Alexi Pappas, who's like a well known runner. I think she's an Olympian, which is perfect. So they have these little lines but like they need to be doing more and going. I think they need to go even more left field and even more chaotic. So that's, that's my, you know, But I think there's so much potential with.

[Host 1]

The good or brand. This is the type of brand that can scale something that's like street style style to the moon because they are more playful and they can get away with a ton of volume that it would work because you land on their page and I mean, it's just like there's a lot of like what feels like just canva type content.

[Tatum]

Yep.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean? And it's very promotional. It's very just like in your face with the sunglasses and where you go back to. It's like they have the personality to be playful, but it's not. When you go back to actually creating a specific perception, like content's going to form that perception and they're not putting enough content out there to form that specific perception. Yeah. I'm there with you. I think the brand, I almost think like this is like a Buttery Bros brand.

[Tatum]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Tatum]

Buttery Bros is such an excellent example of a brand that just does constantly pushing personality at every front. Which that's partially because the people who are running the brand are just dripping with personality. But sometimes there's founders who have so much personality and they don't know how to execute it. You get these canva graphics that they're putting up and it's like, why are, why are you doing this? Yeah. And I mean if you have a brand where you can be fast and loose with the personality, like, oh my God, lean into it for the sake of the rest of us who have to deal with These very serious AG1 for sure brands for sure.

[Host 1]

What's. What's next on the. On the list?

[Tatum]

Do you want to. We talked about Pure Sport.

[Host 1]

You want to talk about run through Pure Sport?

[Tatum]

I think Pure Sport is doing such an excellent job at navigating this. Okay. We're a supplement brand and we've got to be high end and performance oriented. But they have a ton of fun with their brand campaigns and anytime they have like an in person brand activation, they just do it so well. That community just buys in fully because you get to know the people. And I think that's what a lot of these like supplement and sport performance brands kind of miss. Especially in the building phase. You've got to get people to buy in before because there's so many supplement brands that say they have the best creatine. So like that's not enough. Yeah. What I will say, I think in scaling, I'll be interested to see how they can scale beyond just constant brand pop ups and activations. Like I would like to see some of that messaging like really baked into like the website, all the marketing like offshoots that are beyond interacting with the person. Like how do you take that? You know, we're at a Pure Sport event, that feeling and bake it into everything. I think that's gonna be the challenge for them. But I mean, so far, no notes. They're doing a great job.

[Host 1]

I think the brand that does that well, and I know it's on the list, is Bandit. Bandit does it. And we can, we'll touch on it later. One thing I love that Puresport's doing, I think you and I talked about this on the pod maybe five, six episodes ago, where. And road does a really good job. Road beauty does a really good job of this, where you launch something or you have a specific theme and you kind of do it in sequences of either 3, 6, 9 or 12 posts. And like you can tell that, hey, there's a campaign going on or there's some, there's something, some story being told here. And they did it really good for the London Marathon. And so for context, pure sports in the uk. And so if you go down, you're going to see this sequence of content and maybe it's like 15 to 20 something posts. But they did an amazing job of telling the sequential story where there wasn't even color theme, right. It was like this neon kind of yellow, green. Played into their roots of them as a brand. They're from the uk. London Marathon is big for them. But the thing that I love that they did, and I've been talking about this more and more, where there's like TV shows, right, that brands are creating like social shows and then there's like campaign series, which is. Campaign series is a little different words, more high end and you're telling things through an episodic format, but each episode's like this different story. And they did this for the London Marathon. Where did they did like the hotel drop off which was, you know, delivering supplements and delivering like the socks and all of this. Did you see that one?

[Tatum]

Yes. Which by the way is so smart because vendor village at a marathon is just an absolute nightmare. You're gonna get so lost in the sauce that they were like, we're a small brand. How do we go directly to the athlete and, and kind of, you know, make it again with that cultural relevance? Like how do we stay culturally relevant when we're drowning in vendor village? And this is an excellent move.

[Host 1]

I love this. And they had the card load the joys and the journey and they basically put out these like really dialed, very well produced pieces of content for it. But they did, they did a lot of good. I think they're like, you're saying they're very good at like in person activations and like being doing a lot of things that are like just great guerrilla marketing. Tactics where they hung a sign from the London Bridge. They had a lot of other things where they put like, roadside recovery ahead. Almost like, you know, when we're driving in Texas, like, you always see all the BUC EE's billboards and stuff. And. Yeah, it was very similar to that where it was like roadside recovery ahead. And then they had like these fuel stations for people to be able to. To recover and take the electrolytes before the marathon. But then talking about that sequence of like 12 to 15 posts, and then you look at the one that they just did for.

[Tatum]

For Watermelon.

[Host 1]

For Watermelon, it was like a whole nother personality, a whole nother vibe. And it. But going back to it, it's like it was. If you look at the black in neon, this one was just like red in your face. Beautiful. Like, they do a very good shot, good job of. Of telling these sequential stories on their feet.

[Host 2]

It's almost seasonal, too. I feel like, you know, we talked about the brand as mood board move, and this is mood board. Yes, but it's also like seasonal emotion. Like Watermelon is, you know, for the summertime, they have this, like, bright neon yellow for the spring. And then what was interesting to me was it's very muted white colors for the wintertime. You know, it's like they're kind of taking you through all these different associations that you have with your senses, which is cool. But, yeah, just to close it out. I mean, I think it's really interesting how their products could not be more commoditized. Like, everything that they sell is available on Amazon at the same quality level for 80% less. And they're able to show up, like you're saying, in places where their customers are. And that's, you know, building a company, you know, and that's. That. That's the true value of being good at this stuff. You know, a lot of people will say, like, well, what's the ROI of a brand marketing investment?

[Tatum]

Right. Well, a question I get.

[Host 2]

Why does.

[Tatum]

All the time.

[Host 2]

Yeah, why. Why does this brand even exist? They. They have no ability to exist without. Without these investments.

[Tatum]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

So that's why you want to pay attention to this stuff, because it's like, pretty dope when it actually works out.

[Tatum]

And I mean, back to when you were talking about, like, execution versus, like, really dialing in the strategy and visuals. Like, Puresport is a great example of they have to be a certain level of branded, and because they're not a gooder, they can't be fast and loose. With it and you see a very clear creative direction for every single phase, which I think is really important to note. You have to prioritize creative a little bit. If you're kind of a company at the stage of like a pure sport.

[Host 1]

The last thing I'll say about them is when you talk about execution and then you're talking about strategy and personality, they exit. Like they have that dialed in where they're executing things very, very fast. Like the London Marathon to the. I don't remember what marathon this one was for, but they had those campaigns dialed and like executed and were shipping extremely fast, which is good. Like when I. When I think about a brand, you should model. You should be modeling Puresport, where you know your personality, you have your strategy dialed and then you're. But you're pumping out things. It's not a once every week we're posting a piece of content because we got to stay relevant. Type. Type beat. So pure sport. Yeah. Another great. What's. What's next?

[Tatum]

Let's talk about. Do you want to jump to Bandit?

[Host 1]

Let's do it. I'm with it.

[Tatum]

Okay.

[Host 2]

We've never talked about them on this.

[Tatum]

No one ever talks about bandit running. Yeah, they're not doing anything. Yeah, I. Bandit running is just. I am so obsessed with them. So I feel like I can't be as objective as I want to be. But it's just because I've had my eye on every campaign that they've dropped. They're such a good example of a like New York, like Brooklyn based running brand that has dropped things like socks and apparel that you literally could buy anywhere in such a beautifully like art directed, intentional way. On their website, if you go to kind of like the B roll, I think is what they call it. They've got just breakdowns of. Here's our mood board behind this specific. Like their shoe launch, for example, has like. Here's the Japanese art that inspired the tongue on the shoe. And I'm just so deeply obsessed with that. I think maybe you guys have talked about going deep with your brand. Like creating moments for people who are true fans of a brand who if they want to go deep and dive deep, there's moments of delight that they can find themselves in that is difficult to do when you're a smaller brand. And I think they do such a good job at the marketing with the quick little shows and keeping things very like art directed and high end at the same time.

[Host 1]

Yeah. It's the B mail and I love what they. Yeah. What they do with that. Because for the Chicago marathon, like, they. 1. They did a great job with the Chicago Marathon, like the capsule for it. But if you went to their website and you actually consumed content around the Chicago Marathon, they did that. They took you through the mood board, they took you through the inspos, like behind the capsule, creating the cap. So all of these. These different things. One thing that I love that they do it. That's an Easter egg, is they're obviously a running dominant brand. Right. And if you go on their site, anytime you scroll, have you seen that? It adds. Yeah, it adds how far. Like, you've scrolled, right.

[Tatum]

How many K's you've, like, scrolled.

[Host 1]

Exactly. So, like, I'm scrolling now, and it's like right Now I've scrolled 0.81 kilometers. You know, that's just a. That's such a subtle Easter egg that nobody else is doing. But that is so fitting for the brand. And they're also a brand that the art direction lives everywhere. When you were talking about brands and being able to scale and keep that same experience that maybe you have on social to your website and bringing that across the board, it's every touch point, whether it's email, whether it's on the site, to then their content, all of those touch points feed off of each other, which is huge when we're talking about the actual perception somebody creates around, you know, about for you. And that's the reason they're able to command $150 for a shirt.

[Tatum]

Exactly. Well. And you got to think about, like, why, why this art directed, like, going back to their strategy and their market position. Like, they are a brand that is a. Like, like, I want to rep this brand as like, this is cool kid status, because I've got the Bandit logo on my socks. Like, you clock someone else with Bandit and you're like, oh, okay. Like, I know we're the same type of person creating kind of a status symbol brand. You've got to be this intentional with everything. Like, that's what they're building.

[Host 1]

There are levels to it. And I think you just nailed it. Where your goal is to become a status symbol brand, where you wear Bandit and you're kind of out with other runners or you're out in a place and it's like, oh, like he's dripped out top to bottom, or she's dripped out top to bottom in Bandit. And like, you kind of have a specific perception about that individual, how they live, what they do, what their lifestyle is, how they train, what Car. They drive, like, all of that just based on what they're wearing.

[Host 2]

Have y' all seen this? Bandit Grand Prix.

[Tatum]

I'm so obsessed with it.

[Host 2]

This landing page is pretty insane.

[Host 1]

So, like, you saw the homepage, or is it a different. It's the home page register now.

[Host 2]

They have a landing page with, like, an aerial view. They do, like, an aerial zoom on the event venue, and it's labeled Bandit Grandpa.

[Tatum]

It's very F1 coded, which falls so perfectly. And I think what Bandit does well is they're very high art, but they're playful. I think they know humor.

[Host 2]

They know exactly who their consumer is.

[Tatum]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

And a lot of people struggle with that. They ask, who am I even for? And Bandit is an example where, like, so many runners probably think they're pretentious and probably think it's like, I don't need to wear this shit.

[Host 1]

She just made a whole video about this contentious running era.

[Tatum]

Mad people were pissed. They're like, we don't want. Running should be for everyone.

[Host 2]

Yeah, totally.

[Tatum]

These brands aren't saying that running shouldn't.

[Host 2]

Be forever, like, 100%, but they are, like, extremely unnecessary, is what I would say. A lot of these brands sport where, like, there is, you know, pretty. It's not a lot that you have to do. And I'm saying this as a good thing. No, Like, I'm saying that their success is impressive because they know. Exactly. They've got, like, 20% of the running market that wants more elevated stuff, that wants to engage with storytelling, that wants to just consume everything about the sport, and they don't care about the rest of the 80% whatsoever.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And that's clear in everything they're doing.

[Tatum]

Yeah. Especially since that market is so saturated. You have to choose a lane, and so that lane can be a little more inaccessible.

[Host 1]

I see them, and I just think Soho. Right. Like, that's. And I think their stories in Soho. But, like, before, even if they didn't have a storefront, I picture what it would be. And I forgot who I was talking to about this, where it was like, well, if we're thinking about your brand, like, what would your brand taste like? Or what would they drink? You know, what would they. What fragrances would they wear?

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What, you know, like, what vibe would they. What club would they go to if they were going out on a. On a Saturday night? Like, are they going to a speakeasy or are they going to club Live in Miami? Right. Like, those are different personalities. And when I think about them, it's like, oh, I'm shopping in SoHo. I'm dressed nice. I'm getting, like, a $8 espresso. Right. Like, there's all those elements that I'm.

[Tatum]

Thinking about, and that's the.

[Host 2]

The brand dollar espresso this morning in Austin, bro. Inflation's crazy.

[Host 1]

Two hands.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Tatum]

And, I mean, that's where, like, that brand strategy is so important, especially as you're launching other brand campaigns. You can say, okay, we know our target consumer so well. And then you can even launch a brand campaign off the back of what are they doing on Memorial Day weekend?

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Tatum]

Like, this person who drinks $8 espresso and might be like, what if they're drinking Coors Light, you know, or, you know, Coors Banquet, you know, at the side of, like, a grand Prix kind of race. Now let's launch a campaign off of that.

[Host 2]

The overlap of the Coors Banquet crowd so specific in their trailers right now.

[Tatum]

I feel like it's.

[Host 2]

You got to run that one off.

[Tatum]

It's trendy, though, really. You know, like, I feel like that's the. The Coors Banquet is like, that really.

[Host 2]

Is, like, the pretentious running era, too, right?

[Tatum]

It is.

[Host 2]

It's like, I'm gonna drink this fat beer because I'm so skinny.

[Host 1]

Like, yeah, I could see how this gets down. Like, this kind of reminds me of, like, if ALD Had a beer. Like, I'm alien on Dior because it's.

[Host 2]

Like, that's way too much knack for ald, bro. You gotta throw some respect on Coors name.

[Host 1]

No, but I'm saying, like, if the person who's drinking it. Yeah, like, the colors, the.

[Host 2]

He had a waxed mustache in 2014.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

He watched Mad Men and he told you is the best show.

[Tatum]

That's. Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know, stop talking about breaking Brad 10 years later.

[Host 1]

Do I like this?

[Tatum]

You're describing me.

[Host 1]

You got to get back at you.

[Host 2]

Funny thing about Coors Banquet beer is I know a couple of guys, they're building a brand around, you know, kind of a. Like, one of their brands called Rough Rider. The other one's called Base Living. Like, they're building it around this cowboy, outlaw aesthetic. And they. Speaking of knowing your customer, they know that their customer is not actually a blue collar guy. It's actually, like, the city guy who longs for the western aesthetic and, like, the Americana kind of heritage stuff. And it's funny. Like, Coors Banquet beer. It's like drinking a Coors Banquet when you don't love a Coors Banquet is a highly performative act. Like as. As a I want to do.

[Host 1]

I tell you I want to do this.

[Host 2]

Like, I've probably deleted at least 10,000 beers in my life. This is not an enjoyable beer because it makes you really full. But at the same time, if you. It just looks so good in your hand and it's like a signal. Like, ah. Like, this is sick. I could ride a horse. Yeah.

[Host 1]

On the beach.

[Tatum]

Like, this podcast is sponsored by Coors Banquet.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Cheese.

[Host 1]

That would be great.

[Tatum]

That'd be amazing.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What's next?

[Host 2]

Yeah, let's go into another one.

[Tatum]

Let's actually talk about one that's kind of out of left field. There's not much to audit here. But Swag Run club based in Argentina. So a run club, like run clubs as brands is this new concept where all of a sudden, you know, a run club will launch, they'll get really popular on social and then they'll be reached out to by the likes of Puma and Nike and Adidas for like brand deals that are pretty significant. And so like Swag running. I had a conversation with these guys based in Argentina. They're like, hey, like the running scene has been booming in the States for a while. It's new here and we're like first on the scene. And if you look at their like short form videos, it's excellent. Like, their esthetic is so dialed, their graphics are gorgeous. And what they're. They just got Puma partnership, which I find interesting. And the way that they launched it is absolutely brilliant. Their kind of messaging is House of Outsiders in Buenos Aires. It's just like, I mean, it's dripping with like Swag.

[Host 2]

Honestly, something about them that is extremely underrated. There's been a few guys that have done this really well. Is the playlist. So creating a playlist for like, that's the next extension of world building is like audio. There's obviously visual set, whatever. But that's cool that they're kind of creating a world through a soundtrack, you know.

[Tatum]

Exactly. And thinking about what are the ways that a run club type brand can show up if you're not based in Buenos Aires, how can you engage with this brand? And when you have like, there's obviously something here. When Puma is reaching out to be like, we want you guys to launch our new running shoe, like in Argentina and we're going to give you the dollars to do it. Where I think there needs to be a lot of like, these guys don't know how to measure the metrics around. Hey, here, Nike or Puma like, here's how much engagement I'm getting. Here's how many eyes we're getting on different things. Like, they don't really know how to monetize and turn this into a brand super well. But there's. The bones are here. And I think there's a lot of run clubs across the globe that are in the exact same position that I'd be interested to see how they can turn it into something else.

[Host 1]

I do love their art direction. I think they're, from what it seems like they're monetizing better than most run clubs on, like, the. The sponsorship partnership side with. With Puma. I think this Spotify playlist that they made called Swag Track, I think this was definitely a paid partnership. Like, they definitely gave them a budget to go produce in studio. I don't know if you guys saw this, but, like, it is a beautifully shot announcement of their. Their playlist.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because we stopped the cap on this episode. The one thing that I'm a hate on is they copied Minton New York's launch video for Saucony.

[Tatum]

Okay, that's. That is very fair. Which I think you see with, like, a lot of these small brands. They're like, what do we do? Okay, we're going to look at this big player and copy it, which it's.

[Host 1]

To a T. Like, I don't know if you've seen. Do you know which video I'm talking about?

[Tatum]

I didn't even clock that, but you're absolutely right.

[Host 1]

Like, yeah, Especially in the cold world.

[Tatum]

In the viral era, you gotta know that, like, these big guys will see you and you will get called out.

[Host 2]

The algorithms are so good. Like, if something has 200 likes, but used like, the same. Like, there's this bro that always pops up. He does, like, comment content. Every clothing branch I make, I know.

[Host 1]

It'S always my hook.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And it's like, I see his video at, like, 110 likes and I'm just like, damn. The algorithm wants to expose people.

[Tatum]

Like, there's one page that. Any video I make that gets over 100k views, they're gonna. They're gonna rip it. And I always. Yeah, and it always pops up. And I'm like, well, there it is.

[Host 2]

I've been getting a lot of LinkedIn profile views from that. That brand as well.

[Tatum]

They want you.

[Host 2]

I don't care.

[Tatum]

Your face is going to pop up and start ripping my content.

[Host 2]

Yeah, probably.

[Host 1]

There. There was a funny episode that we, I don't know, two months ago where we called Out. Some people, like, we didn't say them by name, but we said.

[Tatum]

But everyone knows.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And they would know too, that we were talking about them.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

We're like, I had a specific segment on the pod and then he ripped it word for word into a. Into a short form video.

[Tatum]

Genius, right?

[Host 1]

Yeah. Ripped into a short form video. I'm going to start doing this viral clip. And I called him out on the pod again. Didn't name him. I knew he knew because the next, like two days later, three days later, after the episode released, he unfollowed me. And I was like, oh, that is. Yeah, that's where you're pissed.

[Tatum]

If you find yourself in that situation, take your video down, go message the person and be like, hey, man, I'm so sorry. It won't happen again.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Tatum]

And that's how you move forward.

[Host 1]

It was funny. I, I do think though, this, this spring brand, Swag Running, or Swag, the. The Run club, they got legs. They have it.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And only for having like 8,000 followers.

[Host 2]

I'm just trying to resist the, the Argentina peso stuff. I'm just, you know, it's going to be hard to monetize.

[Host 1]

That's all I'm saying. Where do you think? And this would, this is almost like a little different part of the convo. But how do you think these run clubs are actually monetized even more outside of partnerships?

[Tatum]

This is where. So talking to the guys at swag, I don't know how much I can share, but they're talking about, okay, let's bankroll some of these partnerships into some concept store community hubs. And I think that's where these can really start flying, which a brick and mortar is difficult, like monetizing something digitally. You see kind of what Bandit Running has done with their run program. Like, you could launch.

[Host 1]

Hit me with. Is it Igloo?

[Tatum]

Igloo. Let's talk about igloo. So iglootherapy.com they are a. They're essentially plunge in South Africa. And so I had a call with the founder, Kate.

[Host 2]

In South Africa.

[Tatum]

Yeah, in South Africa. I had a call with the founder, Kate, last week and I wanted to talk about this brand because they're a great example of like a smaller brand with an incredible product. But Kate is doing everything. Yeah, she's doing customer support, she's doing marketing. And essentially she and her husband started this company because she wanted to buy a plunge tank and ship it out to South Africa. And they're like, sorry, we can't do that. So she was like, great, I'll start this company. And now, you know, she's got these stocked in different gyms in the area. She's got like partnerships I think with some like Hyrox and some other events. And what I think when we look at their website and their social media, like the naming structure and the way that their product looks is so high end and their brand doesn't match that and she's aware of it. So you know, we can talk about it. But this is where it's really important to prioritize great creative for your brand when you have a product that's this good. And I will say too, with their messaging, there's a lot of the power of the cold plunge. Everyone knows for the most part why they need to.

[Host 1]

If you're in the market for a cold plunge, you know why you're buying.

[Tatum]

A cold plunge, you know why. So she needs to dial in on that story of her founder story. And then what's their specific angle? They have this really cool naming structure that kind of came from the words like that mean ice and cold from like native languages. That's very interesting. You can lean into that with the graphics and visuals, with all of the messaging and create kind of this brand that again create like a status symbol brand. Like I'm the cool kid that's not buying plunge because that's too mainstream. We're buying igloo therapy.

[Host 1]

I do. I fully agree on the fact that they look so elevated, but they don't need to be talking about a nervous system reset.

[Tatum]

Exactly. The sales cycle. To get somebody who doesn't know the benefits of cold plunging to buy a cold plunge for their house is just.

[Host 2]

That's kind of a waste of your time. Yeah, there's like so many people that are ready for it.

[Host 1]

I think they really just need to play into an aspirational lifestyle. Like there is the plunge. And for people that are probably competing in something like they're having plunge, it's like the legacy brand. But if you have, if you're building for example, a very nice, like I see this and I think about the person that builds like that elevated garage gym, they dropped 30, 40 grand on a garage gym on like having like wood panels and having specific lights and all that, like this is the cold plunge for you. Right. Like we're in the, in the, we're looking for houses right now. And the one thing that I was looking at or I wanted to do is okay, I want to do like the light wood cabinets with like white marble countertops. I see this and I'm like, oh, this is the plunge. That would match my house.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like, it would match that specific look that I, I want to have and then that I want.

[Tatum]

And back to, like, brand strategy. Think about who is buying for the most part, like, you're an aesthetically driven person, but it's going to be the wealthy, like elder millennials and like moms who are like, driving the ship on this. Like, we want something aesthetic. We have the dollars for it and we're gonna pay for this. So you can lean a bit more. Like, don't go sport performance. Like, lean a bit more feminine and yeah. Aspirational lifestyle with this.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

There's a thing that I, I run through anytime I'm trying to determine, like a brand's content strategy. It's just called the grid test. Like, I look at the first 15 things, publish. Because typically, yes, maybe it's ideal to publish 30 pieces of content in a month. Most brands aren't publishing 30 pieces of content a month unless, you know, they have a super dao team. Right. The BPNs of the world. And so by looking at the first 15 posts, you could start establishing content pillars. The themes, the different formats, the types of content, all of those things. Me just taking a glance at this, they. I don't want to say they don't know what they're doing. They don't know what their content strategy is, though. Yeah, they're trying. You kind of said at the beginning where they're throwing at the wall to see if it sticks, but they're just throwing at the wall and not seeing if it sticks behind with while also looking at data. Right.

[Host 2]

A good example is they have like a chill. The pause like menopause post.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And the woman in it is like clearly a young woman.

[Host 1]

They're trying to figure out who they're that like core customer is. And my advice here would be you, you do have to find these two to three content pillars that you're doing over and over again. Like, and especially if it is this the founder who's spending all of their time on this. Like you finding your core 2 to 3 content. Damn quarter content that slipped out of my pocket. Two to three core content pillars is going to be great for you because you are always going to know what to create around and you don't always have to come up with like this net new idea. And I even look at their content right where Meet the Founders Episode two. You were talking about that they need to be establishing Kind of the story behind the founders. Just because this is more cut 30 advice coming out. Meet the founders episode two. Like that doesn't need to be your hook. And then also who is ice bath thing for is like the next two seconds you've already wasted the valuable and precious time that's in your content and in those first three seconds versus just getting right into it. So just little, little advice there.

[Tatum]

And honestly Kate, cuz you're watching this. Just join cut 30 and then you'll get all of all of this for you hopefully.

[Host 1]

Yeah. If she could join.

[Tatum]

We will join cut 30 and then I'll do your brand.

[Host 1]

We will take care of it.

[Tatum]

Yeah, we got you.

[Host 1]

You want to hit bpn. I know you got an ultra this.

[Tatum]

Yeah. So as long as I don't have a running like raging fever tomorrow, my goal is to run 50 miles out at the ranch at BPN. But I mean the ultra that they're doing is such a great example of like they are launching. We were talking about this before the podcast, but they're launching like great brand activations constantly, like all the time.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Tatum]

And they're creative. Like I'm on their sms, I'm on their newsletter. Like even like the ads, like the Instagram, like story ads that you get after you're on their website. It is all like the creative is so dialed and their story is so strong. Like it just oozes through every single piece of content you consume from them. And I just. Not a lot of brands have an internal creative team that can crank that out, but oh my God, they do. Maybe they should like maybe prioritize your creative more because it's impressive. Honestly.

[Host 1]

One thing I love about BBN and I use them as an example often is anytime I'm running through a content exercise with the brand brands, I'm trying to establish and find what that brand's narrative is. When I talk about brand narrative, I'm talking about how do you want somebody to perceive you? And so what is that story that you're telling or what is that motto? That. That I don't want to say slogan but like really that motto of hey, I identify with that. Like I follow that. I believe in that. We share similar values because of that motto. Right. Whether if we look at extreme level, it's Nike, just do it. Yeah, right. It could be that underdog that's like always battling against the person that's the top person and you just have to do it and you have to excel and you have to get better and BPNS is go one more. Right. When you have that, it makes it so easy for you to have guardrails as a brand for all of your creative and for all of your ideation.

[Tatum]

Yep.

[Host 1]

Because that is your, that is your North Star and without that North Star you can have again like one idea that's super funny and not really relevant and doesn't feed the idea of go one more. Or you could have one that fits perfectly within the guardrails and it amplifies this brand narrative.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And that's super important where people rally behind the idea of go on more. If you're, you know, if you follow BPN and they've done it because they have content pillars, whether it's around Nick Bare. And I mean if you really just think about the idea of documenting him saying hey, I'm going to run a 230 marathon and he shares 16 episodes like that, him becoming a dad, opening a new hq, running a business, dealing with all the bullshit and like he still quote unquote like goes one more and achieves that goal to then the actual athletes that are competing for their thing. Those are the filters or that idea that that slogan is the filter in the guardrail for everything down to the creative that you're saying in email, sms, down to, you know, how they activate at a marathon or to the last man standing or, or their ultra that.

[Tatum]

They'Re doing and what I think I talk about this when we work with brands on establishing and creating a verbal identity. It's so important. I think we tend to be so self centered like as people and as brands. Like you've gotta make sure that your slogan and one liner is something that people wanna literally tattoo on themselves and that's what makes a really strong that's go one more. Like Nick Barr's entire story is about going one more. But so can his like 45 year old couch to 5K, you know, person who's like and we're gonna go one more. Like that's a strong tagline. And I think that's really the juice of why BPN works so well is because they've got the aspirational athletes but they very much speak to anybody who wants to do something and wants to.

[Host 1]

Work hard because it's really just take one more step.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean? Like if it is a couch to 5K individual, it's man, you just ran for the first time in 10 years. Like you ran and you ran 0.3 miles, go 0.31. Right. Like and that's Such a simple message that the person that aspires to be the person that eventually runs a half marathon or a full marathon and then an ultra marathon, like they can look at that and know, hey, I'm getting closer to that by taking that one more step. So I agree with you. I think they're probably out of the. Yeah. One of the most, if not the most dialed brand here in this list when it comes to creative and full on branding and how everything feeds off of each other. One thing I always have to tell brands when we're working with them is like if they're bringing us on to lead their content strategy and then even go develop some of the content for their brand, don't put us in a silo. Right? Like don't think of organic content as.

[Tatum]

Oh my God, yes.

[Host 1]

Yeah, as like, hey, this one thing that goes and lives by itself and is we want to be great on social. It's. No, you want to be great as a brand. And organic to the way I see it is it's the nucleus of the brand because it's where people are spending the most time with your brand. You know, if I publish, let's say it's marketing examine and I publish 60 pieces of content in a month and I put out four newsletters, what in theory is kind of more important for how somebody is going to perceive my brand? It's the content. Yeah, they're consuming way more content. Even if it just averaged 10 second watch time like that compounded over 60 pieces of content is a lot of time spent with my brand.

[Tatum]

And when you think about it in silos too, that's where you see these like large corporate brands who have socials where it just feels so disconnected from their overall narrative because they're trying random trends, they're hopping on like the demure versus whatever and that's. Those are the brands that we get sick of. Brands that feel authentic, like you are operating within your brand guardrails and guidelines of personality and tone of voice and visuals. Which is why I think often when I have people come to me to work with brand, they're really interested in social media strategy because obviously you want money in your pocket and you want to see some videos pop and go viral. But like you have to have some semblance of a framework of your identity before you just jump into social. Otherwise what's a viral video going to do if it is completely different than, you know, the core of who you are?

[Host 1]

The way I talk to brands about this as well is, you know, if Your organic is very dialed and you have the volume that you should be hitting on a consistent basis. That should then be influencing email. It should be influencing estimates. It should be influencing your landing pages in your, your ad creative. It should be influencing all of that because one, there's free data points, right? Like if Puresport or any of these brands, BPN puts out a specific piece of content that's very narrative driven and it performs very well. That is an easy data point to then go to the, to email and be like, hey, let's try this. Because the market is saying this is a good, this is something we resonate with. And you can go to email, twist it so it fits natively within your email strategy. But you have this data point that is like, is telling you that you should do this. And then I also look at it as like organic and performance marketing need to coexist, right? They shouldn't be operating in silos. They shouldn't be two completely different things and they shouldn't have two completely different strategies. Organic is almost like the testing ground for paid, but it also should heavily influence. Like, you don't want your brand to feel like two different brands on social and then when they get hit with it with your ad. And that happens more often than not a lot. Yeah.

[Tatum]

A lot of brands that are great at social. I've gotten some ridiculous ads that kind through on Instagram stories later or what.

[Host 1]

Have you, and it completely shifts your perception. Whereas I always tell the brand like, hey, if you're paying all this money to create this perception on organic, but you're spending even more money on paid, because the reality is like most brands are, the brands at least we work with are spending six to seven figures a month on paid. If you're spending all this money in paid to make an impression and get in front of all of these individuals, it has to be cohesive. It can't feel like this other brand, right? Like, you want, you want to be pain to get in front of millions of people and knowing you're putting your best foot forward in front of those millions of people.

[Tatum]

Because to that person, like the paid ad is almost like, hey, you've been consuming our stuff for a while. Here's the ask. Like, we're extending you. And it feels like it's from the same person. And it should feel like it's from the same person who's extending you that invitation. And when it feels so different than all the other content you've been consuming, you're like, who is this? I'm not going to take this invitation from this person I've never met before.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And BPN is one of the brands that they do an amazing job of it. I've been getting hit a lot with their YouTube ads. Yeah, they've been doing like a lot of good. Top of funnel, middle funnel on, on YouTube. And it literally just feels like one of Nick Bare's YouTube videos, you know, versus the typical content that people. People get from. From ads you want to hit. I think the last one on. On here is Beam.

[Tatum]

I have been aware of Beam CBD since its inception. I think they kind of, they were one of those brands that launched out of the CrossFit space like really heavily, which is how I became aware of them. And now I think their most recent launch was with Beam Kids. They launched a kids line and it's been really interesting to watch the evolution of a brand that started in CrossFit and like started started niche and then went broad to gen pop. And not a lot of brands navigate that successfully. I think Go Wad is another recent one who like started in CrossFit, launched, they had a rebrand and launched.

[Host 2]

What would you classify these guys as, like lawful, neutral?

[Tatum]

I would.

[Host 2]

That's just, it's so like 2010 brand coded.

[Tatum]

It is 2010 brand coded with that.

[Host 2]

The logo types, minimalist millennial packaging, stuff like that. But I agree because that lends itself to be, be able to expand.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Based on people reviewing the product positively.

[Tatum]

Yeah, I think I would say. I would. This is kind of a lawful, neutral brand which allows them. And I think CBD in itself, like, they're not, you know, hyping up this like clinical science backed whatever. It's very much like, here's, it's experiential, here's the experience of good sleep, here's the experience of, you know, this lifestyle that you want. They're so lifestyle driven and I think you've kind of seen it shift from early days, like get sleep to perform good, like Mat Fraser now to like, hey, we want to live the best life for our kids and we want to get good sleep and have a healthy lifestyle. And so I don't know what they're doing behind the scenes. So I don't want to just throw out criticisms because I love what this brand is doing and how they've navigated the space. I think sometimes when you scale up, you can lose some of your original personality, which might have to happen. But I think instead of losing personality, you might need to just pivot a little bit. So I think there could be a little bit more personality that they bake into the brand to really help it pop. But that's not a huge criticism because I know they're navigating an entirely new landscape.

[Host 1]

But they used to be hot. I would say that they used to be hot. And then I don't hear them in conversations anymore. And when I don't hear a brand in conversations anymore, that's still like a pretty big brand. I know it's because they're not creating good content.

[Tatum]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You know, like, you just. You just know it. Off. Off. Rip. The brand that I think needs to be studied is doing an amazing job. And they've done it since they were like a small upcoming. I mean, since they launched, really. Or a pre launch is salt. Drink salt.

[Tatum]

Oh, my God. The amount of DMS I've received about. Have you seen this electrolyte brand?

[Host 1]

So Henry hit me up like a year and a half ago because Henry actually worked at Puresport.

[Tatum]

Oh.

[Host 1]

And so he left Pure Sport.

[Tatum]

Okay.

[Host 1]

And he had told me, he's like, hey, I'm working on this new brand. He's like, it's going to be me, my best friend. And I like, no, I didn't think twice about it. But, like, you hear so many people kind of say that. And him. And I just chatted. And then I start going on LinkedIn actually, like you said, and I start seeing drink salt popping up, popping up, popping up. And then I see the face. I'm like, oh, like, I've talked to Henry, like, we've texted. And I start seeing it's him. And I'm like, oh, they're nailing it on so many fronts. They have the strategy dialed, they have the personality dialed. They're like kind of this fun, unhinged, but still luxury not tailoring towards, like, you need to be the best athlete possible. And this is going to enhance your performance. Like, there, it's hydration made simple, which I would say is pretty generic. But then season your water. I love the idea of seasoning your water.

[Tatum]

They should. They should put that in their Instagram. That should be the tag.

[Host 1]

It's in their Instagram, but it's at the bottom. I think it should be at the top, but I think they're using it as their cta. But everything from the typography to the icon of like, oh, my gosh, I cannot say that.

[Tatum]

Iconography.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I cannot say the word today.

[Host 2]

Iconography.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Iconography is so, so dialed. And I love what they're doing on. On the social side. 34 posts and 17,000 followers. Like dies. And they also know how to rip things in a very good way. And what I mean rip things is like Ro did that, that phone case that had the peptide on the back. Right. Or the like the. Was it like a lip balm or a lip.

[Tatum]

Something like lip gloss.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And then they did it where. Because that got patented and so they actually did it where it was like they made it where you could put an electrolyte stick pack on the back.

[Tatum]

So smart.

[Host 1]

So yeah, they're just one brand that I think when you think about the idea of personality and strategy and executing fast and still being a lean brand. Yeah, this is how you do it.

[Tatum]

They're doing it well. I will say I hate LinkedIn, but it is so slept on for a lot of founders. Like pure sport. Like I think the CEO is always posting updates and it feels authentic. It doesn't feel like LinkedIn thought leadership that you hate.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Tatum]

And you're just kind of getting in front of different eyes in, in the industry in that way. Not as much for sales, but just for like again, like social proof. I think a lot more founders should be like posting updates on LinkedIn.

[Host 1]

Agreed. Anything you want to end with for, for these brands that are going to hear all of this, what they should be doing, what they shouldn't be doing, how to kind of find that intersection of strategy, personality. What are your last remaining thoughts?

[Tatum]

I think hearing all of this, especially if you're a brand founder and you have a lean team or it's just yourself, you can fall into analysis paralysis just like you do. And you guys probably see with social, get it to market fast and iterate faster. Don't just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, but try things and try it for long enough and look at the data and then see what's working and make sure you do just use this framework to back up what you're trying and what you're creating. Like, don't just throw things out because you saw a trend that worked for another brand just on a piece of paper. Develop your brand voice and your brand personality. Give yourself some guidelines and then just go run with it. It doesn't have to be a huge, large scale operation, but just start with that strategy and get it to market and then iterate, you know, rapidly.

[Host 1]

I love it. Tatum, appreciate you being on. This was great. We've been needing to do this. I know. Brian probably want to hear all, all the fitness, fitness brands.

[Host 2]

This is, this is great. I loved it.

[Tatum]

You care about the, like, hyper specific niche that I also care about. And there's maybe three other people in the world who care about it. So it's always fun to.

[Host 2]

I'm like three and a half. I mean, I care. I just, you know, I've taken supplements before, and I just don't really. I sell more supplements than 99 of.

[Host 1]

People in the world.

[Host 2]

So maybe I'm a little jaded in, like, the whole concept. But no, I thought it was great. I mean, and this is all like super tangible stuff for people to take away.

[Tatum]

So now you guys are just not going to publish it and then go, we're publishing.

[Host 2]

We would never do that, too.

[Host 1]

We're publishing.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But thanks, Tatum.