If You Don't Understand Luxury, You Don't Understand Business

Summary

Sweat Equity Podcast Summary

Episode: If You Don’t Understand Luxury, You Don’t Understand Business
Date: July 23, 2026
Hosts: Alex Garcia & Brian Blum (Marketing Examined)
Guest: Chris Howell (CEO, SPX Gym Design)

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Overview:

This episode dives deep into luxury hospitality, niche business strategy, and the art of creative world-building—through the lens of building next-level, high-end gyms for the wealthiest clientele. Chris Howell shares key lessons on how to attract, retain, and wow luxury customers, what sets luxury experiences apart, and why relentless focus on a niche unlocks both creativity and business growth. The hosts break down tactical marketing and design strategies relevant not just to gyms but for any brand wanting to create memorable, differentiated experiences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Luxury Matters in Business

• Chris reveals that truly understanding the luxury segment is a gateway to understanding business itself—where product, experience, and scarcity converge.
  • “The moment I said we’re only doing luxury, we broke a million dollars. Then we were scaling from there. If I could go more niche, I will.” —Chris Howell [00:00, 31:31]
• Limiting supply or access means brands must overdeliver: “Once you gatekeep it, once you limit the supply, you actually have to deliver on the other side of that experience.” —Host [08:11]

2. Designing Iconic, Immersive Experiences

• Chris describes his “world-building” design approach, merging hospitality DNA (guest-centricity), novel equipment, and architectural cues from outside the fitness industry:
  • “I look a lot in automotive, like, what is Porsche coming out with?...Are there through lines, like the details, how it’s shifting more analog versus digital?” [04:29]
  • Inspiration for “wow” moments leads to spaces so unique people instantly recognize the location—or select hotels solely for the gym, as with Alex Hormozi at the Santa Monica Proper. [01:17, 10:33]
• Process: Start with essentials (dumbbells, quality machines), then obsess over details and “hooks” that create lasting memory and share value.

3. The Psychology & Economics of High-End Clients

• What luxury consumers crave: Speed, privacy, personalized options, “the wow factor,” and the ability to signal unique insider status.
  • “They want the ability to come in and just be like, catered to.” [06:53]
  • “Let me show you this club; it’s something no one’s seen before—they associate it with you.” [07:16]
• Investing in a luxury gym is a retention—not acquisition—play for hotels, raising nightly rates and customer lifetime value by creating non-substitutable experiences. [12:02]
• Insane requests: hyperbaric chambers, six-figure home gym builds, and even luxury pet amenities [16:14–17:33]

4. Constraints as Creative Catalysts

• Physical, acoustic, and budget constraints drive clarity and innovation.
  • “Constraint forces clarity…Before we even talk through how amazing things you want…structural limitation, acoustics, ceiling height.” —Chris Howell [18:49]
  • Surprising creative tradeoffs: Sometimes taking on budget-constrained, high-potential projects (“just for the logo”) builds long-term brand value.

5. Niche Focus as Business Superpower

• Chris’s journey: From Wall Street burnout to niche mastery, he learned that tightening his focus to the luxury/hospitality sector turbocharged growth and expertise.
  • “The focus was the actual unlock of my success… the moment I said we’re only doing luxury, we broke a million dollars.” [31:31]
  • “If I could go more niche, I will. There’s always temptation [to expand], of course… but would that be my best work? I don’t think so.” [31:31–32:43]

6. Selling Complex Creative Work

• For high-stakes B2B sales, speed and customized, multi-viewpoint proposals are essential.
  • “People think, what if you can get a proposal to somebody in like 20 minutes after a call?...You want a visual process, because you don’t know who’s reviewing this.” [41:44–42:42]
  • “You have to have a different sales pitch ready for each stakeholder.” [42:46–45:29]

7. Innovation and the Future of Gyms (2035 & Beyond)

• Frictionless, “analog but tech-enabled” experiences will dominate luxury.
  • Digital fitness screens often create friction—luxury buyers want simplicity and less screen time, yet hidden tech can improve results and operations. “Take the screen off”—the trend is toward less overt tech, more seamless performance. [45:43–51:26]
  • Digital resistance equipment like Voltra is changing expectations: “It basically can double the weight on the way back…It’s wild.” [52:40]
  • Role of access management, computer vision, and AI-driven personalization—so long as it feels effortless and non-invasive. [53:14–54:57]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Niche Focus:
  “The moment I said we’re only doing luxury, we broke a million dollars. And then we were scaling from there.” —Chris Howell [00:00, 31:31]
• On Iconic Experiences:
  “Our goal is: if someone sees a photo of it, I want them to know exactly where that is.” —Chris Howell [02:58]
• On Creative Process:
  “We start out at 150% creativity and then engineering reality drives it down to 70%. But if the market’s operating on a creativity level of 10, the gap is still significant.” [04:29]
• On Luxury Psychology:
  “They want the ability to come in and just be catered to…they want the wow factor…then they can tell their friends: ‘The club I belong to has this, you have to see it.’” [06:53, 07:17]
• On Design Suffering from Poor Constraints:
  “If you want [the gym] on the seventh floor but the building can’t support it, you have a bigger problem…You have to zoom out and say, ‘What is the most impactful piece here?’” [18:49–21:23]
• On the Value of the Gym in Hospitality:
  “It’s not just a cost—it’s an ROI on asset appreciation.” [45:01]
• On Digital Friction:
  “The moment there’s friction…like, I have to log in…it’s not working—the frustration, out.” [47:32]
• On Analog Luxury:
  “I want that proper gym to be as analog as possible…I don’t want tech or screen overload.” —Host [50:21]
• On Brand Value as Retention Lever:
  “If you have a hotel that you have a great experience at…you lose—you’ve already done the research, the diligence, you know, it’s a good product.” —Chris Howell [12:57–13:09]

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Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] – Chris on the impact of focusing on luxury
• [01:04–06:01] – Breaking down “world-building” and design process
• [06:53–11:09] – What luxury clients want: speed, privacy, and social capital
• [12:02–14:17] – Why hotels invest in luxury gyms (retention vs. acquisition)
• [16:14–17:33] – Wildest luxury gym requests (hyperbaric chambers)
• [18:49–21:23] – How constraints fuel great design
• [31:31–32:43] – Niching down as an unlock for massive business growth
• [41:44–45:29] – Sales strategies for landing big commercial projects
• [45:43–51:26] – The future of gyms: frictionless, analog, selectively tech-enabled
• [52:40–53:14] – Next-gen gym tech (digital resistance equipment)
• [54:23–55:08] – Personalization and access management as future differentiators

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Tone & Language

The episode is fast-paced, insightful, and jargon-free, blending playful banter (“I might need a revolution—luxury dog hyperbaric chamber!” [17:31]) with candid, practical wisdom. Chris’s language balances humility and expert authority, while the hosts push for actionable takeaways for entrepreneurs and creatives alike.

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For More:

Chris Howell:

• Instagram: @chrishowell16
• Website: spxgymdesign.com

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This summary distills the core ideas and tactical playbooks for creating, marketing, and scaling standout luxury experiences—a must-listen for anyone building in hospitality, wellness, or the business of elite brand value.

Transcript

[Chris Howell]

The moment I said we're only doing luxury, we broke a million dollars. Then we were scaling from there. If I could go more niche, I will.

[Podcast Host]

Chris Howell is the CEO of spx. They've designed gyms for some of the wealthiest clientele in the world. Today he reveals what it actually takes to win luxury clients.

[Chris Howell]

Alex Hormozi is really into gym equipment. He stays at the San Monica proper hotel because he loves the gym. I go, alex, we did that gym. He goes, it's the only hotel I stay at when I'm in la. And it's because of the gym. You go to a hotel, could be aces. And then you go to the gym and it's just what happen. You have a sick hook and then the payoff is like, not what you promised.

[Podcast Host]

Chris, welcome to the pod.

[Chris Howell]

Thanks.

[Podcast Host]

Super excited to have you, man. So I wanted to get right into your approach to world building because some of these gyms that you have built for the highest end clients in the world look like a dream. Every single one of them seems like someone's end game. Right. Like you made it and then this is the place you're going to work out. So I want to talk about, like, what is your approach to world building and where do you start and how do you arrive at that finish, finished project.

[Chris Howell]

Well, thank you for saying that. That's pretty cool. I think it really comes back down to kind of where we started a little bit, which was everything's rooted in hospitality and the guest and member experience. One of the things that, like, when I was younger, me and my brother would always fight over. It was like, who's going to key card into the hotel on a vacation because you're like, you know, there's a bed, you know, there's a tv. But like, what is that missing factor that you like, think is going to be really interesting? That's what we try to drive through the gyms is like, you know, there's going to be. Well, you hope that especially in a hotel experience, you know, there's, there's going to be a certain level of dumbbells. There might be, you know, a leg machine, but like, what are the novel pieces? You're like, dude, this is sick. So it really is kind of fusing the hospitality, the design and like the gym world. That's kind of how I, how we try to think about it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, but I mean, so a client, I come to you and I'm the proper hotel in Santa Monica and I say I want a gym that stands out. Like, what is Kind of your process for arriving at that next step.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, so we take like, just a general, like, first principles approach. So it's like, how do we. How would a proper Santa Monica guest, or when they roll out their membership, how would they define a gym? What needs to be here? And so. And like, what are the things that typically let these folks down? Right. So in hotels, it's usually dumbbell ranges of, like, they only have five through 50, or they're mismatching or they're not the same.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

So it's like, all right, cool. We're going to do like 5 to 100. Like, we're not going to mess around and there's going to be just multiple. Like, you're never going to run out of dumbbells. There's dumbbells all over this place at this hotel. And then it was, how do we drive the brand, the property's brand through it. So when we think about it, it's like, what's going to be the gym is we're going to have upper body pieces, we're going to have lower body pieces, we're going to have things like that. But for there, we had a belt squat, we had a Kaiser machine, like, things that people were like, I've only seen this on tv, on Netflix, on full center.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

Yes. And that's like the novelty where people come back and say, when I'm in la, I'm only going to stay at this hotel. That's always like our goal with hotels, or if someone sees a photo of it, I know exactly where that is. So that's kind of our, like, process from, hey, we want to do a gym. We need a gym. That's going to be amazing. We're going to start at the essentials, like, what is the essentials package? And then once we check those boxes, then it's like, how do we introduce those wow moments?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's all about hooks.

[Chris Howell]

You know, I was gonna say, no

[Podcast Host]

matter what it is, like, you gotta give them that one singular thing to remember about the experience. And I really like what you just said about, like, this could only be here. You know, this. This is a very recognizable image. But my question would be, like, how do you sort of design that image? Right? Cause I mean, that's. We live in the taste economy. I think we're increasingly drifting towards everything feels slop or incredible. And you know that that divergence is going to define a lot of what's to come. But, like, you're finding a lot of success in that, you know, this is a very unique, eye catching space. Like how do you design those experiences? Like, how do you kind of find that? Is it texture? Is it, you know, a feng shui? Right. Like, how do you design those?

[Chris Howell]

Like, kind of like where is the inspiration coming from? I guess. Right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Or the process? Like, I, I think one thing our audience loves hearing about is just like the artist's process, you know, like what is, what is a process they can maybe learn from to design similar cool things?

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, I, well, I look outside of our industry. I don't look at like it's kind of exhausting. Like I keep looking at. If I'm looking at gyms like early on I'd be like, oh, this gym did that, this. It's kind of hard to get like an original take, I guess. So I look a lot in automotive, like, what is Porsche like coming out with? What are they doing and how does that customer react? So I see what's important to that customer and like are there through lines like. Yeah. Something about the details or like how it's shifting more analog versus digital. For Jims, it's like there's an audience that just likes the sound of something more analog versus like I have to log in and then it doesn't matter what the technology is. It's like they just prefer the analog experience or lose the TVs. So I think it's important to kind of develop a take. I think when we're talking to our clients or understanding what do you see, what is your vision here? And then we take that vision and be like, all right, how do we get them there and pass that. So we take look externally at within automotive. Honestly, textiles are like huge too. So I'll go deep on that stuff and then I'll go back to different manufacturers and I'll push them hard. And I'd be like, hey, here's a render of something. Can this be done? So I come start out like 100%, 150 creativity and I get like manufacturing, engineering, like reality drive it down to like 70%. But if the market's operating on a creativity level of 10, I mean that's the gap is going to be still really like significant.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like Austin has had a lot of these insane futuristic renders. You know, like we'll have the waterline is this new building in Austin, tallest building in Texas. And there's this park that is just built outside of it. And it was this massive civil infrastructure project. Dude, the renders on this thing looked like utopia, right? Like you're just like, oh my gosh, if this is actually going to come to be. I checked it out, it's solid, you know, like, so that 70% rule, I think is something that developers, commercial real estate people are definitely, you know, using as a marketing tactic very effectively. But I mean, the gyms that you're building, I think probably get closer to 90%. So what you're obviously very tapped into, like the luxury consumer. And what would you say those luxury consumers are craving right now in hospitality experiences?

[Chris Howell]

I would say, you know, speed and like convenience and options. So at the high level is what those folks want, is they want the ability to come in and just be like, cater to. You were telling me a little bit about off camera about an experience you had where someone walks out. What you were talking about had nothing to do with the gym, right? It was all about the hospitality.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, the experience.

[Chris Howell]

And so when people walk in, they want to feel like they're being catered to and they want to have like, okay, cool, I've seen this stuff before, it's great. And then they want the wow factor. And then what's even better is that they can go tell their friends, be like, the club I belong to, the hotel I stay at, they have this. Let me show you. Like, that's a really powerful thing. And same thing as like marketing. It's like when you share something, there's that innate thing. It's like, I'm sharing something no one's seen before and they associate it with that person. And so it's the same thing that happens at the highest end of luxury. It's like, oh, have you stayed at this $4,000 a night hotel? There's a barrier of entry. You have to be in that demographic, the psychographic. And then what is there? And if there's even a further filter of you have to be a member there, you have to own real estate or you have to pay insane fee, you have to put something on the other side of that that's super valuable, that people are like, look at this, right?

[Podcast Host]

It's like once you gatekeep it, once you limit the supply, you actually have to deliver on the other side of that experience.

[Chris Howell]

Otherwise it's misalign. Which is what our premise of our company is, is like you go to a hotel could be aces, and then you go to the gym and just what, what happened?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, totally.

[Chris Howell]

That misalignment happens in our space happens. You know, again, you have a sick hook and then the payoff is like, not what you promised.

[Podcast Host]

And one thing that I'm kind of curious about is like, because when I go. So I stay at the Santa Monica proper every time I go to la.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And not a flex. And I, I, I honestly never really use the gym though. I, for whatever reason, like I go to the Equinox Santa Monica or the one in Manhattan beach from going down south. And you know, what are some ways that these hotels are looking at that dynamic? Because I think there's twofold, right. Like the Proper launched a membership to their hospital, like wellness stuff. Right. Like that. That's an insane product to actually like try and take to market. And they must have a lot of conviction that people are gonna pay for it versus, like how are they stealing people away from their traditional routine. Like an Equinox or a lifetime fitness or a Crunch fitness down the road.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. It's usually solving like a large pain point. So from the operator side, creating usually the gyms or an amenity is just a sunk cost on that. But adding a membership, it rationalizes the capital expenditure to create something memorable or interesting. So now you have a revenue generating line that otherwise wouldn't be there and it's recurring. So usually the pain point that something like that is solving is crowding. Right. Crowding at Equinox and lifetime and Crunch is like a huge pain point, especially for that customer that has a average daily rate of like $700 or something per night. Right.

[Podcast Host]

Not to further your flex, but 1200 and peak.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. Right. So one is like, okay, let me go check out the hotel gym. There's four people in here. That's interesting. And it has everything you want and more maybe. And it's private, It's a tailored experience. And that's where I think overall hospitality is moving, is that it kind of feels like customized in a way where you're not trying to serve every guest, you're trying to serve a certain guest that would stay here. And so I think that's what like Santa Monica does really well. Like a, you know, Alex Hermosi is really into gym equipment and he's telling me about how he stays at the San Monica proper hotel because he loves the gym. I go, alex, you know, we did that gym. He goes, you're kidding. He goes, it's the only hotel I stay at when I'm in la. And it's because of the gym. Now that's a different thing. You know, I mean, you're quite popular. But he can't go to an Equinox. No it would be insane.

[Podcast Host]

No.

[Chris Howell]

So after he told me that, I said, hey, can you say that one more time for the camera? You know.

[Podcast Host]

Right, give me that snippet.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, he thought that was. Because that's something he would say. But yeah. I think one thing is, you know, in that use case is privacy. And the general concept would be just, it's tailoring for the guests that they're trying to attract.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I think it's fascinating because we're entering this K shaped economy where, you know, there's either the luxury consumer or there's kind of the mass market consumer. And, you know, gyms seem to be a major selling point for different properties. Like, do they view that as a incremental foot traffic driver? Is, do they think like, I'm going. I mean, do they think there's a lot of hormozies out there who are saying, no, I'm literally going to go to the proper because of the gym. And is that something you're experiencing across the entire kind of industry?

[Chris Howell]

I think one is retention. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

So more of a retention rather than acquisition play.

[Chris Howell]

Yes. Yeah. Because one, they'll be able to charge more per room per night. Right. If they have a stronger thing and it's sought after. And if you think about comps, right, if there's a hotel that is similar pricing, similar amenities, and it's right next door to another one and you're into health and wellness, which, that would be a separate thing, but like, you know, most people now are interested in some form or fashion of it. It's a huge, huge market share. And the gym is just lights out. Right. And you're like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna stay here. If. And then, then the, the consumer surplus on that is like, if it's $25 more, $50 more per night, and it's like there's still value there, you still will pay the premium. So once you go and then it's a retention, it's so much easier if you have a hotel that you have a great experience at and you're just like, I'm going to go to Austin, I'm just going to stay at that hotel.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Chris Howell]

And you're like 100% you lose. You, you, you've already done the research, the diligence, you know, it's a good product. It's like when someone's like, I really like Four Seasons, I'm going to just go, is there Four Seasons? Enter the city.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

And you just, you're trusting the, the brand to do that. So I think the, the gym is a good. It's not, you know, for a lot of people it could be, but it's a strong value prop to be like, I'm gonna go there and just. I know the product.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a huge profit center as an investment. Because if you're driving more retention, like, you know, that's, I mean, obviously the key to anything. But at the same time, like, I think what you mentioned there is that competitor situation where if it's the proper versus, you know, the Chateau Marmont or whatever it is, like one of those is a disruptor that's health and wellness focused is generally going to attract a better crowd. Now all of a sudden, because of that gym investment, they're winning a lot of their target demo in that. If, then.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. And if you think about if the gym costs 200k or 300k, but the multiple on the asset is 3x, it's like the paid ad dichotomy. It's like, all right, I pay $1, get 3 back.

[Podcast Host]

Is that like an average ticket price for a gym buildout? Like a super luxury gym build out?

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, somewhere around like very smaller size things. 200 and then like 300. Lower end. 300 for like hotels and things like that. And that would be like a higher, higher end component. And then like a members clubs where they have more square footage. Say like 4000. It can get up to 300 to the 550 range. And then there was like, there's, there's a couple other. Yeah, I was going to name it. I was like, I don't know if they'd be comfortable with me naming it the actual price, but there's, there's projects that we're working that, that could get up to a million.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Plus, what's the, what's the most expensive residential gym you've built?

[Chris Howell]

Private.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah,

[Chris Howell]

there's one in Austin, Texas that was a private residence.

[Podcast Host]

I know, I know that one. Friend of the pot.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. Friend of the pod.

[Podcast Host]

We don't need to. Out of.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, no, but, but the thing is, is that it's important to him. Like he anchors like he recently.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, talk about an roi. Everyone knows that setting, it's a part of the character, you know, and so I think it's actually like, that's a huge bull case for investing in something, a space like that.

[Chris Howell]

Yes. And he's not, he's not the only one. He's not the only one. Like, like, there's, there's plenty of our private residential clients that spend six figures between 100, 150k on, on homes, on their home gym setup. And they are the, the titans of the universe. Like, those are the people at the top. And it's just, it's not shocking when I'm like, oh, that person runs this thing and he wants to do it. Right? Like he starts every single day in there. Yeah. So, but yeah, so those, those are. So we, we, we usually price anchor people like that. But like, hey, for homes, like, our clients are usually spending, you know, 100k plus on this.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. What's the most outrageous request you've ever gotten for, for a gym?

[Chris Howell]

I mean, hyperbaric chambers right now are like, pretty insane. Yeah, but they're like coming from, they're coming from like Croatia or like just crazy places. And they come in like submarines. So like, you have to like stop the building of your house to like move it into the room and it's never coming out. So like, wow. Yeah, it's, they're, they're insane. But yeah, hyperbarics are pretty wild just because, because of the logistics of it. And you know, those are medical. Like they're at hospitals and so they're now in your house.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Chris Howell]

It's pretty insane. And they, those, those run at like, like there's ones that are kind of like a little scammy, but when you get into the real like atmospheric pressure, those are going to cost like 80 minimum. And then the really nice ones with like, you know, Emirates business class seats in them, they're going to be like close to 150 grand.

[Podcast Host]

That's insane.

[Chris Howell]

They'll have TVs and stuff and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're getting really popular in professional setting, like pro teams and things like that.

[Podcast Host]

Right, right, right.

[Chris Howell]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

That's 150 bands on one piece of

[Chris Howell]

equipment and you're spending, you know, 40 to a minute to an hour in it per day. So like, you gotta use it. Yeah, there's even like pet hyperbaric chambers right now too.

[Podcast Host]

You got the luxury dog hyperbaric chamber.

[Chris Howell]

That's when you know, man, I might need a revolution.

[Podcast Host]

Between that and the Monaco yacht picture, I think we're, we're reaching new levels here. All right, so over the last two years of building Nibble, shipping nearly 8,000 UGC ads, and getting performance data on every single one of them, it became super clear there are two types of brands, those that understand creative volume and Those that don't. The core difference was what they focused on. Brands that focused on volume plus hit rate were never complaining that Meta changed the algorithm. Their stuff just worked. And anytime we did work with one of those savvy brands, it was always on the same platform. Motion Motion is by far the best tool to optimize your creative pipeline. Provide structure, visibility and insights that your creative team needs to make better decisions. I like to think of it as like what Meta would actually show you if they cared about your success. All the key metrics like 3 second stop rate, winning angles, formats, competitor research, it's built into their platform so you can make quicker and better decisions. They even just launched their new AI agent Runth which functions as a 24.7creative strategist, providing recommendations to your ad account. Y' all make sure to go check them out@motion app.com. all right, let's get back to the episode. So one of the things we talk about a lot on, on the pod is like constraint forces clarity and if you set constraints then you will then become more clear in what you're communicating, what you're working on, whatever. How do constraints play a role in your gym design?

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, there's basically three things that we look at that you're like, you have to tackle this before we even talk through like how amazing and how things you want it to end up. It's basically the structural limitation of the building. If you want it on the seventh floor but the floor can't, like the building can't support it, you have a bigger problem. So then you're limited to like it's got to be on the ground floor. So what are you going to move and shake and what are the concessions and trade offs you're going to make? The second is the acoustics and people probably have experienced this is that people will put the gym say on the seventh floor and you ask, hey, what's on the sixth floor? Guest rooms. There's no acoustic.

[Podcast Host]

Can't drop the weight.

[Chris Howell]

Acoustic consultant out there that can solve that. It's impossible. Even in a soundproof room like this, it's very hard. And then the last is ceiling height that. I mean I'm sure there's a lot of people that have, you know, like, oh, this cool gym but you know, eight foot ceilings, that's a problem for you?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, I'm cooked.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. Anything overhead, pull ups, things like that, anything sub like and believe it or not like 8ft, like people try to build a gym in, it's like, wow, very challenging. With 8ft. Yeah. 8.2, I think, was the lowest one that we've ever done.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chris Howell]

And we had to, like, customize uprights, like straight hobbits.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, interesting. And then, like, is there creative constraints, you know, like, do you establish in that creative process? Like, you know, okay, this, this gem is going to be. Because you have, like, gems in Gurney's in Montauk, but you also have gems in alpine environments. Like, are there kind of creative constraints that you'll set in the process of design?

[Chris Howell]

It's really the limitation on that is more of, like, budget and then how creative. The. The, like, how risky. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sometimes we'll propose something to be like, I don't know. But then, like, internally we're like, dude, if they do this, this is gonna rip. So there's that and then the budget component. But I think, like, Gurney's is a good example. That was hard because we had a. We had a very, like, very thin line of a budget. And so we had to, like, shake and move in order to make that work. And what we did was that we were like, we just looked at it, zoomed out, and we're like, okay, what is the most impactful pieces here? People are going to be using the benches, the racks, the dumbbells. And what is this hero image that again, to get people to be like, dude, I have to go see this place. Right, right. And that's how we kind of had made that budget work. So we actually took some hits on a couple pieces to make that work.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And do you. Do you view that? I mean, so one thing, when I was building my agency, like, I took deals that were way under my market value because I knew if I put that logo on my website, it's going to have. I mean, it's investment just like we've been talking about with other things. And I'm sure that's something that you've probably had to do along the way with some of these gym builds. You're like this. I might not make a ton of money here, but this singular image on my website will bring in 25 new clients. So it's worth it.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, I think. Or I would say early on, but it's not really early on. It's like five years into it, I started to really niche down into this, like, luxury hospitality and like, high end multifamily customer. And so I knew I needed more kind of authority and social proof, I guess, that people would be like, oh, I know that brand, whether if they haven't gone there or not, but it's associated. Like, I'm gonna go stay at a Four Seasons. You know this. There's some level of quality there. Yeah. So I knew I needed some more of those. And so, yeah. As we're also trying to find price equilibrium within the marketplace at that given time, I was like, all right, climbing price. But then I would take a hit. But now we kind of have a project minimum where we won't take on a project. It would have to be hyper unique or something that would be more intimate to me and be like, ah, this is just like, I really, really, really want to work on this. Or this is like a dream project. I would like to do that. But Gurney's is a good example. Is like, I wanted that one to work so bad for them.

[Podcast Host]

There's only one Gurney's. There's like, you know, that's a situation where there's only one venue. You're the name behind the design.

[Chris Howell]

Which is funny, is that we're talking about. I was like, I barely. We didn't make any money on the project.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

Now directly, indirectly, we probably had some halo effect that happened from that. But that was one I learned. I was like. I felt so in love in what I was pitching. Like, I love Mad Men. Like, there's nothing that gets me more hyped than like, you know, you're doing like a pitch like that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Howell]

And we did a pitch like that. And I was just like, we have to do this. I have to find a way to do this.

[Podcast Host]

What was the pitch?

[Chris Howell]

It was just me, like, I wanted to drive a through line of like, what the Gurneys member and customer and guest want. And it was like, how does the gym feel? Like a Gurney's gym. And at that point, again, it was. I think it was 2019 or something like that. And we were introducing this like Bentley stitch and the stainless steel dumbbells. And there were just like this drift wood theme that we were trying to run through the gym. And I just was like, we have to do this. Like, nobody's doing this.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. I. That's funny. I just immediately like, you know, the Don Draper line love was made up by guys like you and me. Like, you know, I make you like, you like Heinz, because family love that show. I don't know if you had like that. That singular, like, you know, one liner.

[Chris Howell]

Oh, no, no. I gotta get better at that. But maybe that's where I. I gotta

[Podcast Host]

work on my phrase. So how do you mood board. Like, I'm super curious on, you know, some of the sources for imagery, like, where you kind of do take. Cause you mentioned, like, obviously Porsche or whatever, but, you know, there's gotta be, like, an intimate design process here where you arrive at sort of like the mood board of what you're trying to build for people.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. And. And basically, we have, like, a three kind of phase approach within our process, which is like, operations design and execution. The operations is we have guys on a team from, like, an Equinox or Lifetime or a boutique, and they just know how to operate a gym or an experience. That's their goal. And then we have interior designers on our team. These people are like, I take them. They're raw. Like, they come from hospitality. And I'm like, this is a dumbbell, you know, but, like, I don't need more people that need gym equipment. Same to, like, what I said earlier. I want people from different perspectives to be like, oh, in this environment, in this restaurant, we did this. And I'm like, dude, yeah, genius.

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Chris Howell]

Right. So I basically kind of in these interiors, like, I don't formally train them, but they, like, over time, as they get more exposure, they're like, oh, okay, cool. And I learned so much from them as well.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, of course.

[Chris Howell]

To what you're saying. I'm like, here's my version of mood boarding. And I'm like, oh, there's levels. Okay. So, I mean, like, we would go, like, you know, similar to what other people and designers do is they go to Pinterest and they try to, like, you know, find a color palette, especially, like, concept, where they're like, there's no, like, definitive brand. You're just hearing like, hey, this is our target demo. This is what we want. And here's like, some, you know, things, like, screenshotted. Right? And you're like, okay, how do we create something out of this? So we'll do, like, a lot of the Pinterest stuff. And again, I won't. We'll still. We'll use other gyms as, like, a. Just a base. But I will bring in, like, more that lifestyle stuff as well and be like, hey, like, we and I. Voiceover. To be like, hey, we could do this, but, like, with dumbbells, yeah, we can do this within a half rack. But now with AI and faster rendering times and stuff, we can actually, like, just 3D render components within those things. Be like, hey, here's where we're getting from. Here's how this can translate into your brand as well, you said you really liked, you know, you know, classic Ford. Like, here's a way that we can draw that parallel and then that might be. That's where like, the manufacturers will get like, pissed at me.

[Podcast Host]

It's, it reminds me a lot of like, you know, what we talk about in branding in the consumer world particularly is, you know, basically say you're this brand array. I, you know, I think they've done such an amazing job because their singular thought was, what if supplements looked good on the beauty aisle? Right. And the ability to port things from other industries or, you know, adjacent industries really is how you kind of create something unique and differentiated. There's so much opportunity to do that in the CPG world. But it sounds like that's also a very powerful thing you can do in hospitality.

[Chris Howell]

Yes. I mean, it's, it's. All the opportunities are always adjacent. I always feel like.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You said something earlier about like, you know, okay, so I was designing gyms and then I really niched into the luxury residential space. Like, talk a little bit about finding that niche and how you've been able to stay focused. Cause I think it's really, you know, powerful.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. You had Albert and Devin on from Pro Mix, right? Yep. Me and Albert really subscribed to this because I worked on Wall street as a trader and hated it. Hated it so much that I was like, I have to leave. I told my boss, I was like, yo, I got an offer. And he goes, awesome, you're fired. And I was like, I didn't have an offer. I was like, just trying to get a raise. It was just not. It was quite unhappy.

[Podcast Host]

No way.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. It wasn't good. And so I'm basically like, I'm hanging out outside of Barclays investment bank over in midtown here, and I have my bag and I'm like, what am I going to do here? So I go, you know, personally, I played college lacrosse and so I kind of like, I had a formal kind of exposure to like higher end, like strength conditioning.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Chris Howell]

And so, all right, I'll just, I'll try to become a personal trainer and then I'll do like cold calling sales. So I did that. And that was challenging.

[Podcast Host]

But how old were you?

[Chris Howell]

I was 24, 25, something like that. Yeah. And looking back when I was telling Albert and I was like, I didn't love what I was doing. I hated it. But that was such a stronger fuel force for me to find what I was not passionate about because I realized I was searching for passion. But I Wasn't good at anything. So I was like, I can't be passionate. I had to start with what was I curious or interested about. I liked fitness, I liked business. I didn't know how to make them work together. So when I was talking with Albert about it, and he really relates to that, he likes when people are like, yeah, I really hate where I'm at in life because it's just such a strong motivator. Because love is intrinsic of comfort, hate is constant discomfort. And if you're ambitious, you will seek every single day to relieve that pressure. So it took me about two and a half years to figure out what did I want to build for myself. And so when I started, I had an opportunity at Sohaus and they wanted to do this. Like, this was like Soul Cycle Rumble Berries. Everyone was paying like 40, $50 a clip to go to a class, plus the upsell of like the smoothie at Barry's, right? And, you know, so Soul House was like, hey, we want to do a global concept. Roll it out to all the houses, Group fitness, Berry style or whatever style it was. And so I was like, all right, cool. I get a call from an architect over in the uk. He's like, hey, mate, I heard you're the fitness guy. I was like, yeah. He's like, what are the best treadmills? I was like, hey, all right, can I get back to you tomorrow? I go home and I was like, made this like 50 page deck of treadmills. And the next day I went in the peloton store. I was measuring the decibels of it. And so I sent this because I knew how to make a deck from Wall Street. And so I sent it to him, he goes, dude, this was amazing. Can you do the same with dumbbells? I started working with this guy for three and a half years and all we did were the gyms and the wellness for Sohaus. And so I had such great exposure to architecture and design. And then how so house designers and how Sohaus operators thought about hospitality and the guest and member experience. That changed my life. So that's when I left that, and I was like, I'm going to do gym design. It was very quickly. I was like, I really don't. The standard that was implanted in me was at the highest end. So when I felt substandard, I was like, what am I? I don't want to talk to these people. I'm not talking to. I know the people I want to talk to. And so that's why I always Kind of niched into that higher end experience. I knew what the expectations were in the standard.

[Podcast Host]

But is there ever like a temptation? Right. Because you know, maybe it's like a college athletic facility or maybe it's a lifetime fitness that is like the South Lamar one in Austin, which is like much more high end. High end. I guess, like it's hard to say no to those opportunities and I'm curious if those have come in and like, is it, is it difficult or do you just. You're so focused on your niche that it doesn't even. You got the blinders on that question.

[Chris Howell]

I feel like terminates entrepreneurs 100%. And the focus was the actual unlock of my six. There's, there's a graph I show my team and for like 6 years, 100k, 200k, 300k revenue, making zero money. And then the moment I said we're only doing luxury, we broke a million dollars and then we were scaling from there. And so that focus, once I saw that materialize, I was like, I'm never going out of the. If I could go more niche, I will. There's always temptation. Of course. Like if University of Alabama called and was like, hey, we're doing the thing, yeah, I would love to work on that, but would that be my best work? I don't think so. I think there's other groups that would do well. And when you say that to a person, they're like, why won't you work with us?

[Podcast Host]

Oh, now they want to.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, yeah, now they really want to.

[Podcast Host]

The rates get higher.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. But yeah, so I think the focus of the niche is everything. There's temptation. But I think experiencing that was such an eye opening for me that I was like, I'm only going to focus on this and just spend all my time and being the, the how do I become the best in the world at this? I can't do that if I'm kind of splicing my time.

[Podcast Host]

What. All right, speaking of the University of Alabama, it seems like we're headed towards this membership club world where everyone's trying to build a third space. Health and wellness is a big component of that. Are there any cool like concepts that you've heard about, like besides kind of what is out there right now that are emerging you're excited about?

[Chris Howell]

I think like the, the member. I mean the membership club world is, is outrageous right now. Like everything is membership club.

[Podcast Host]

And I don't know what's a bigger bubble, membership clubs or AI. I guess we'll see.

[Chris Howell]

I. Yeah, we will. See and I feeling it's going to be the membership club.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Howell]

I think there's a couple of things. The membership club is you can't, you can't charge a premium just because you're calling a membership club. And I think there's the, you know, we're sitting at Moss right now, which is like a developer with a great operator like that partnership is very powerful, just resource wise. It's hard to compete. So I think people going into the membership club world is like, you have to define like who your audience is and what it is. And it doesn't have to be a membership club, it can just be a gym. There's also like why do we, why does it have to be this like higher end experience? If you've like this is your gym, you have no experience in hospitality and operations. Just focus on running the gym. There's too many people out there that are like, we're going to have F and B. Do you know like how hard that is?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's like a completely new gym.

[Chris Howell]

Awesome. Yeah, it's hard enough. It's very hard business.

[Podcast Host]

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[Chris Howell]

you the membership club. I think what I'm excited for segment wise is I think country clubs, I think have a lot of white space similar to hotels and apartment gyms. I think country clubs, I made a post and I got torched because I had so much contrast in it that people were totally missed. I think the substance of it was like, yeah, do the golf course, awesome. But why does the gym have to stink?

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Chris Howell]

And I think there's so many country clubs and they look intra segment to see what they're all doing. But if they look outside there would be awesome low hanging fruit there. So yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I mean the country club thing feels extremely natural. That's like the best real estate. The best customers.

[Chris Howell]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Are they, are they innovating or the, the.

[Chris Howell]

This is how I've solved the hotel. The. The one thing that I think I have a good sense on is pattern recognition of whether it's taste or understanding, like where a segment is iterating or innovating hotels. You had the top, you had sohaus one hotels, you know, proper came along later but like I'm talking like pretty early. Sohouse was like we're going to do health and wellness and like Martin Kuzmerski the CEO over there and Nick Jones over there. If you look at these guys like they're not fitness folks but they understood British.

[Podcast Host]

You know, I feel like the Brits, you guys just don't work out.

[Chris Howell]

No, no, but, but Martin is, he's. He's a friend of mine. He's pretty, a mentor and immense respect for him. Like real operator and real hospitality guy. And these guys, they don't work out. They know but they understood that they dwell time. You have to stay on property if you're going to incremental spend. If you can start your day earlier. The average lifetime of that LTV of that member of that customer or whatever is going to be higher than someone that's like drunk sleeping in. They go off property to Barry's boot camp and then they have all these temptations, they're never coming back. It's hard. They understood that they're like we have to just have everything in house. And so they started that and that was awesome. And so country clubs, we're kind of seeing the same, the highest end guys that are like, yeah, sure, if your husband or someone's on the course, what does the rest of your family do? We want them to be excited to be on property or be at the club. So we're seeing kind of that pattern arise again.

[Podcast Host]

Do you F and B? Like seems like you don't do F and B. Right. But it's probably a huge part of your negotiation with these different properties. It sounds like. Is that a profit center for them? Like I mean incremental spend is obviously super important.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. But as far as like, like for example, like the wellness take on F and B is hard margins.

[Podcast Host]

It seems like it because it's like what are you going to charge me like $14 for that?

[Chris Howell]

Smoothie and the cost of it is what, like 10? And then you're throwing it out at the end of the day for freshness or whatever it is. Berries had everyone. A lot of people want to copy the berries milk because, like, people talk about the smoothies and all the stuff.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

But it's a pure upsell and it's like a dopamine hit when your endorphins are ripping, you're like, dude, I'm going to go get this.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I deserve the smoothie that wipes out my entire workout.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, I would be shocked if they're like, dude, our F and B business crushes. It's just part the experience and it gets people like, well, I'll do the hard workout for the reward. It's part of the experience. And the hospitality they try to do. I think the reset for hospitality is like, hey, we're going to do a spin studio. It's like, why there's soul cycle down the street. Why you're going to really do this goes back to the focus. What does hospitality do? Really? Well, they do service. They do F and B. They do. So it's like, okay, just do the run club and then at the end of the club, bring them to the club and be like, hey, you get a free coffee and a croissant or something.

[Podcast Host]

Right, Right.

[Chris Howell]

It's like, that's what you guys do.

[Podcast Host]

Well, there's something you're already a part of. No, I think it's really funny what you just said, because I stayed at the addition in Miami beach and they have an amazing gym. That's was that.

[Chris Howell]

You're right. No, no, we didn't do it.

[Podcast Host]

They had amazing gym. It was such a wow factor, you know, because there wasn't like an equinox close and I was trying to work out and I'm expecting this shitty, you know, cramped hotel gym. I go in there, I'm like, yo, this is incredible. You know, I got this great workout in. And you're so right. How it kept me on property because then, like, I'm kind of like feeding for protein afterwards. So I like went and go like. So, yeah, it's super interesting.

[Chris Howell]

The fact is that you sometimes you read these reviews and stuff and it's like, you didn't mention anything about the room or the surface or anything. You were like, dude, dish in Miami, the gym was sick. People will leave a review. That's it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's like the gym and the pool were sick and like, it was. The lobby was sick and it's actually a really good point. A lot of the non room based experience was incredible. The room was fine. It was a hotel room, right?

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, it's what you had. Every, all it checks, all the boxes.

[Podcast Host]

It was a place to stay and I had storage for my stuff. Right. But that wasn't the real core experience. And this is probably, you know, a huge opportunity for disruption in these emerging hotel brands because like I would imagine there's certain legacy folks, I mean Hyatt Marriott, whoever, who they're only introducing this at their higher end properties. Is there like a dinosaur of the hospitality industry that you think is like sleeping giant here?

[Chris Howell]

I think the ones that you just hit like the Marriotts and you know it's hard to roll out thousands of properties, a gym that people are like, why can't you be like sell a house? You're asking.

[Podcast Host]

The Best Western doesn't have a. Yeah, it's extremely hard.

[Chris Howell]

Even if focusing on the luxury level, there's so much scale to that that it's more of like redefining brand standards versus custom one off property solutions. So they have a harder job as far as like, you know, a portfolio of like 10 hotels versus thousands is that you have to get all that. It's, it's a very corporate situation which you know, I, we love, we love all of our clients. There's, sometimes there's harder ones than. And I think they'd be the first, you know those, those larger groups would be the first to say it too. They know it's hard to get the ball rolling downhill when you have so many stakeholders that have to prove things. And because it's not a one solution, it's a brand standard. It's like how do you roll? Which was, I learned a ton from that experience is like you can't just be like, oh, let's roll these dumbbells out. It's like, dude, you gotta, we have these contracts, they have political, they have all these things going on.

[Podcast Host]

So talk about, talk about selling into a difficult environment like that because I think you've probably had a lot of experience selling to large corporations, large groups having to get proposals through. Like what have you learned in that process?

[Chris Howell]

I went through so deep, I went so deep into sales a long, not a long time ago to go through this because I think the, what people expect with proposals is just inherently is like, oh, let me go work on a proposal. It's like a week. People think, what if you can get a proposal to somebody in like 20 minutes after a call? That's What I, like, aspire to is like, all right, how do we get a proposal quickly over to the SAM. Massive comprehension. It's like, cool. The call. We want 100% comprehension. We want the proposal to match what we just said, but in finer detail. So if someone to look at and like, here's what I'm getting that. And it like, you want. What I. What I believe in is that you want a visual process because you don't know who's reviewing this, right? So you want to be able to speak to like, the owner who's like, I'm not reading this. And then you need to speak to the chief of staff who's going to read it. And then you're going to need the VP of development to be like, well, what's the budget? This isn't the budget. So you need to have a proposal that addresses all these people.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, right. So, like, you kind of map out the stakeholders and understand each one of

[Chris Howell]

who are going to read this thing. So you have to have like a headline. You have to have a visual kind of situation of what's happening, what they're paying for. And then you need to break out and like, kind of intrinsic. Of like, here's your return, return, return, return. And then map out the cash flow, how they're going to spend their money when they need to spend their money. Because, like, construction is like, it's either debt or they're. They're raising out of pocket or they're using debt. So they need to understand, like, when are they going to pay you and at what point? And maybe they transact. Maybe they sell the hotel, somebody else, are they on the hook to pay you? So you. That all has to be, like, played out for them. And so I. We, like, spend. We spend a significant amount of time to like, develop that process where we can just send a proposal very quickly. And once we understand, like the square footage of what we're working with and the kind of the vision and. And then, yeah, we go through that process. Sometimes we have to sell or, like, go through the process in person. Sell them in person. I enjoy that. And. But yeah, it's. It's the same thing. Whether it's virtual or in person, we do that same process.

[Podcast Host]

Totally mirrors exactly what I learned selling into large brands. So basically it would be that, you know, the CMO or the CEO sees a TikTok and he's like. He's like, holy shit, why are we not doing this? He goes to cmo and CMO is like, well, we could do it and then that person goes to the head of growth and they're like, go find an agency. And then head of growth is like, hey, marketing associate, go pull 15 agencies. And so how you show up to the marketing associate is how they're going to communicate to the head of growth. And then in the sales process you got to basically be like, hey man, this is why your boss is not going to be pissed that you hired us. Right. Like this is exactly how we're going to make you look good. Rather than like you said, the owner. When you're just dealing with a guy one to one or a girl. Like it's so much easier to have a free flowing conversation. Like the ROI is like kind of already baked in versus like hey, this is your channel dependencies that we're gonna need to like loop in other teams for and like, you know, map out your sampling costs and like your ad costs.

[Chris Howell]

Whatever you do want anyone selling, doing your sales pitch for you. And so you nailed it. It's like, how do you make this person excited to communicate your ideas to be like, dude, I found these guys.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Starts with pain points.

[Chris Howell]

Right. We shouldn't be thinking about this equipment budget. We should think about as ROI on asset appreciation.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

Here's why I think this. And you're like, you tell a guy, dude, don't even tell. This is your idea. Go tell him this.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's like, it's like understand how they're going to have to pitch their boss and like that is intimately your sales pitch. Right. It's not necessarily like this is going to be so great. This is so cool. It's more so like here's these tangible, specific things that I know your business really wants.

[Chris Howell]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And then by the way, we address every single one of them.

[Chris Howell]

Right. You know, and since they're not the decision maker, you have to have a different sales pitch ready to go for those people.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, totally. Switching gears a little bit. Like what do you think gyms look like in 2035? Like what's going to be different?

[Chris Howell]

I think the digital fitness thing, it's been like, there's been like, it just has been met with like friction, I'm sure. Like maybe you see in a hotel and it's a screen and there's arms. You're like, I don't know if I'm going to use this. Especially if you click it and it says log in. Oh, oh, I'm out.

[Podcast Host]

Awful. I, I literally do this every day at Equinox. They've literally like precision run on their treadmill. And I'm like, dude, why am I clicking through four different screens to get to quick start to be able to just select my workout? Like the UX is actually so atrocious. It's, it's kind of insane.

[Chris Howell]

It's insulting.

[Podcast Host]

It really is. Because you're just like, why does this suck? You know, like the incentives are there for this to actually be great. And then if you're Equinox, like you're collecting so much proprietary data on me. That's the login thing is a really good insight. What's the solve? Like it sounds like there's something you're seeing.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, you have to back out into being like, how are people experiencing the gym today? One of the things that you know, I look at a lot is like Horst Schultz, he was the CEO of Ritz Carlton. Basically like he, he went, talks about going from a physical key to the scanning key. And the adoption was like, you're giving me this piece of plastic, I'm paying this money. And then they went back to the physical key and then it took hold. Then he had to change all of them. And the standard of is if something is like the physical key, people liked having it. They do it. They were used to it. Same thing in the gym is like you go to a pin loaded machine to start and go on that thing is like driving an automatic. Turn the car on, go. The moment there's like friction or abrasion or like I don't know how to key into my room. This is, it's not working. The frustration out. And if your brand it says XYZ on the top. That sucks.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

Takes half a second to make that decision. I don't use it. And then you need overwhelming of a friend to be like, no, you should

[Podcast Host]

try it, it's great.

[Chris Howell]

Not great. So you have to meet these people where they are. It doesn't matter how good your product is. If you put like some login or whatever, there's some friction there because they're experiencing is like, why should I take someone off a pin loaded chest press or pin loaded row and use my machine? That's where they're at. So if you throw a login on there half a second, I don't understand it. I'm out. And it's just sitting there. Right. So there needs to be some like

[Podcast Host]

why is it not in an Apple wallet? What's that like, you know how you get into a Soho house with your Apple wallet?

[Chris Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Ding.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Like why can I not have a signature Thing that like allows me to get into like a pet, a peloton and I just like boom. Login.

[Chris Howell]

Peloton is interesting because that's, that is the only product that people seem to have patience for. Right. And I think they have like 5 million subscribers. Like it's one of the largest things. So people have a login and they want to keep tracking their data.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

Right. So if they're at a Hilton property and get on and they, they have the patience to log in. But when you go into these other products falls off quickly. So I think the one thing is a lot you just want to be able to get and go and people understand what to do with it is one of the main things. But if we're talking 20, 35, we're not even talking about the same pain points and problems right now. We're talking about the pin loaded chest press.

[Podcast Host]

For example, when you say pin loaded.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. Selectorized. So you take the pin and you move it on the stack and then you're good to go versus taking a plate.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Chris Howell]

And putting it on and then go.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

For more of like the higher end properties. There's an inversion to plate loaded and so there's a whole like call out there that is like dude, payload it. It stinks like this and that.

[Podcast Host]

But I get that it's less aesthetically cool. It's at the end of the day.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. And there's people like it's better. But if, and then you know, you hear some of the, the higher end people like, oh, there's nothing worse than taking a plate and putting on the machine. I'm like, dude, you're working out.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Chris Howell]

But imagine that the stack doesn't even exist anymore. It's just digital resistance.

[Podcast Host]

That's. Yeah, like a tonal.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, a tonal inside of the chest press. The machine or the machine just is able. Just you have a pod of a machine and it just is able to transform and morph to what your workout is. And it shows you on the screen. If there is screen for you to like, here's what you're going to do. How's you're doing it? It's counting it, it's showing you to move slower. Right. There's formats that kind of exist like that, but we're talking about the actual weights just non existing anymore. That'll change everything. It'll change how equipment is delivered, manufactured. The cost of shipping of a 400 pound, 600 pound machine versus like 200 is massive.

[Podcast Host]

Feels like a design question though.

[Chris Howell]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

Because look, my personal opinion would be I want that proper gem to be as analog as possible. Like I want it. I don't, I actually don't want a single ounce of technology in there. And so whoever can nail that doesn't mean technology shouldn't be in there. That's a design problem. It's like it shouldn't feel like I'm getting like, you know, tech or screen or overload because I mean just my personal observations, like people are so tired of social media, they hate their phones, but they're addicted to. And at some point that will break. Like something has to give. We cannot keep going into this like AI dystopian screen addicted future. At least for high end clientele. I think there will be a status signal of I have less screen time. I don't really interact with the digital world that much. And nailing that while still being tech enabled and providing a better experience will be really interesting.

[Chris Howell]

No, I think you're not alone, by the way, with that. There's so many people that are just like, don't even put a screen in here. Or the treadmills take the screen off. Off.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

Is there an option to take the screen off?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

And yeah, I do think it's sad, but like, yeah, you're like, this could be one besides like going into a sauna. Really, your phone just turns off, which is cool.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Chris Howell]

Right? And we have these gym and the wellness areas where you're like, these could be areas that just remain phoneless or like there's a downscale of digital exposure which I think people want, but I think going back to even like the automotive, for example, right. Like the resurgence of like a classic Ford Bronco or a Defender. And there's these niches that restore all of that and they, they bring it to this year, but they have their own design. It's still analog, but it can get you from A to B without like the worst part of it is like this thing won't drive.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Chris Howell]

So there is like probably some borrowings that we could take from that. For this 2035 example, it's like you could still get all the analog and then maybe there's just the internal components or something that is happening that. Because the one thing with digital resistance is that besides all the economics upsides of it is that you actually can get a better workout like in less time.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

There's a product that's called Voltra. Yeah, yeah, I showed it to Greg.

[Podcast Host]

That's. Isn't that hormozy's thing that he's, like, freaking out about, he loves.

[Chris Howell]

There's a lot of people in the industry that really love this, like, this big. And you can put it anywhere. Anywhere. £15. And it basically, like, it can double the weight on the way back, and it. You have to work harder.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

And so it's wild. It's crazy. So I think that's, like, where that can work, because once that exposure happens, it's hard to go back.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

To regular weights. You're like, I just want to get back on that thing.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Do you think it'll be a computer vision play?

[Chris Howell]

Computer vision play.

[Podcast Host]

You know, I. I go into that proper analog gym, and my workout is tracked because there's just a camera360 camera on the ceiling. And you just, like, port the data into my whoop. And, like, it's actually a time where I can stay away from my phone.

[Chris Howell]

And it's kind of happening. Like, right now. People are, like, trying to go put into their IT closets, and, like, they'll rope in a different provider that overlaps onto their security, and they'll see, like, what utilization of equipment is.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah. And then they'll have sensors on the piece of equipment, so they'll be able to see, like, feel like, how many. How weight was selected, how many.

[Podcast Host]

It feels like a great business collecting that data on behavior.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Security camera.

[Chris Howell]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Because the security camera is allowed in there. That's such a. Interesting dynamic as a luxury consumer. I'm down for the security camera. I'm not down for you to, like, videotape me. I don't really know why those diverge, you know, Like, I'm down, like, if I get robbed, like, I want to see the footage, but otherwise, like, don't.

[Chris Howell]

Don't film me. It's probably because it's coming top down.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

You know, I don't know, but that. That in access management is big, too. Like, how you said you scan into Soos is like, you just walk in.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

And you just, like, clocked.

[Podcast Host]

It's amazing.

[Chris Howell]

And. And, like, even here, they do a good job. Like, I walked in here, they have a. They have. They have a CRM. I can't remember the name, but, you know, they, you know, hey, Chris, how's it going?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Chris Howell]

So just that alone is cool. It makes me feel good. But if I'm registered and then it brings it up on the thing and it says, chris, it's his birthday today. I mean. Yeah, Come on.

[Podcast Host]

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of ties back into that. Hospitality principles.

[Chris Howell]

Exactly. So access management is big in gyms as well, because 24, seven, unmanned, like, all that stuff is. Is trending a bit, too.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, for sure. Well, dude, this was super fun.

[Chris Howell]

Yeah, thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Thanks for coming on. Where. Where can they. Where can the audience kind of find your work, support you, that sort of thing, man.

[Chris Howell]

Do my content push. If you want to follow me on Instagram @chrishowell16 or spx gym design dot com. Yeah, those are probably the two best ways to see what we're doing and see what we worked on and what we're doing.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, we'll leave the links in the description as well. But, yeah, otherwise that was great.

[Chris Howell]

Thanks, dude. Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, of course.