Motive | Ep 6

Summary

Sweet Bobby – Episode 6: "Motive"

Introduction and Series Context

"Sweet Bobby", an award-winning investigative podcast series by Tortoise Media, delves deep into the intricate and deceptive world of sophisticated catfishing. The series follows Kirat (Kira) who was unknowingly fooled for nearly a decade by Simran Bogle, the mastermind behind the multi-layered deception. Episode 6, titled "Motive," explores the underlying reasons behind Simran's actions, the ensuing legal battles, and the profound impact on Kirat's personal life.

Legal Battle and Apology Letters

The episode centers around the tumultuous legal battle between Kirat and Simran. After years of deceit, Simran confessed to her elaborate catfishing scheme in 2022. Following this confession, Kirat decided to sue Simran, seeking not only justice but also closure. However, Simran's legal team retaliated with serious allegations, accusing Kirat of grooming her while she was still in school—a claim that added another layer of complexity and distress to Kirat's ordeal.

"Simran's lawyers came out all guns blazing. They accused Kirat of grooming her while she was still at school. It's a pretty astonishing and incendiary allegation." [06:34]

Amidst this escalating conflict, Simran proposed a settlement in spring 2021. She offered Kirat a private apology and a modest financial payout, but with stringent conditions. The apology had to remain private, restricted to Kirat and a select group of 30 individuals, and could not be copied or shared beyond this list. Kirat, yearning for a meaningful resolution, found these terms restrictive and felt they perpetuated Simran's need for control.

"Kira argued with her lawyers telling them that it just wasn't good enough." [07:01]

Determined to extract genuine remorse, Kirat took it upon herself to rewrite the apology, making it more heartfelt and impactful. Simran agreed to this revised version but still maintained the constraint of privacy, leaving Kirat with only this constrained acknowledgment of Simran's deceit.

Kirat's Support System and Family Dynamics

Kirat's journey is not one she undertakes alone. Her close friend Nilesh plays a pivotal role in supporting her through this turbulent time. Nilesh listens to the apologetic letter from Simran, offering insights into Kirat's pain and resilience.

"For me, it makes no difference. I know her and, and I know who she is and I've known her since she was a little girl." [05:01]

The episode also delves into the strained relationship between Kirat and her family, particularly her father. Despite Kirat having the apology letter, her father remains distant and detached, struggling to come to terms with the situation. When approached for an interview, he expressed sorrow but remained elusive about the specifics.

"It shouldn't happen to anybody and I really, I'm sad that it happened. That's all I can say, really." [14:48]

Nilesh shares the frustration of trying to communicate the depth of Kirat's suffering to her father, who is entrenched in denial. This denial is further compounded by cultural and community pressures, making it challenging for Kirat to find solace within her own family.

Exploring Simran's Motive

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to unraveling why Simran orchestrated such an elaborate catfishing scheme. Despite numerous interviews and reflections, Simran's true motives remain largely inscrutable. An original apology letter penned by Simran offers some clues but leaves many questions unanswered.

"She honestly believed that we were both in a dark place and living in this kind of alternative reality of this fantasy world that she'd created was bringing us both some kind of happiness and joy." [41:07]

However, Kirat and her support system remain skeptical of the sincerity behind Simran's words. The manipulative nature of the apologies, combined with the constraints placed upon Kirat, suggests a complex interplay of control and emotional manipulation rather than genuine remorse.

"I don't know if you grasp what you've done and how you've impacted my life or other people's lives. Just. Just want you to wake up and understand how many people you've upset, including your own family." [33:51]

Police Investigation and Institutional Response

Kirat's fight for justice extends beyond the courtroom into the realm of law enforcement. Initially, the police response to her case was dismissive, focusing narrowly on the sexual aspect of the allegations while overlooking broader issues like coercive control and harassment.

"The police don't seem to have considered any other potential crimes since this podcast came out." [24:22]

Determined not to be silenced, Kirat appealed to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), which eventually reviewed her case. In a turn of events, the IOPC found that the police had improperly handled her evidence, prompting a potential reopening of the case against Simran. This development offers a glimmer of hope for Kirat, suggesting that institutional acknowledgment of her grievances might finally pave the way for genuine justice.

"The iopc found that the police hadn't properly considered Kirat's evidence. And the upshot is Hounslow Police may have to reconsider their decision to drop the case against Simran." [27:00]

Kirat's Recovery and Path Forward

Despite the emotional and financial toll, Kirat is making significant strides toward healing and reclaiming her life. Supported by friends like Nilesh and her renewed relationships, including a return to her radio show, Kirat is rebuilding her sense of self and agency.

"Because with or without a clear explanation of motive, Kirat does seem to be on her way to recovery. She's still got a whole bunch of issues to work through, financial, professional, but she's back on her radio show." [43:13]

Kirat's journey is emblematic of resilience in the face of profound betrayal and manipulation. Her determination to move forward, seek accountability, and support others in similar situations underscores the broader themes of empowerment and justice that "Sweet Bobby" seeks to illuminate.

Conclusion: The Ongoing Quest for Justice

Episode 6, "Motive," concludes with an acknowledgement that full resolution remains elusive. While Simran's departure from her high-powered job hints at possible repercussions, the true extent of accountability and closure for Kirat is still unfolding. The episode emphasizes that true justice involves not only legal vindication but also personal healing and societal recognition of such sophisticated deceit.

"True justice is yet to come for Kirat." [43:45]

As the series progresses, listeners are left contemplating the complexities of human behavior, the failures of institutional systems, and the enduring strength of the human spirit in the quest for truth and reconciliation.

Notable Quotes:

• "Simran honestly believed that we were both in a dark place and living in this kind of alternative reality... bringing us both some kind of happiness and joy." — Nilesh [41:07]

• "It shouldn't happen to anybody and I really, I'm sad that it happened." — Kirat's Dad [14:48]

• "The police don't seem to have considered any other potential crimes since this podcast came out." — Alexei Mostras [24:22]

• "You brought this on yourself... it's justice." — Nilesh [37:53]

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About the Podcast:

Sweet Bobby is hosted by Alexei Mostras and produced by Gary Marshall, with additional reporting by Claudia Williams and sound design by Carla Patella. The series investigates the intricate catfishing scheme perpetrated by Simran Bogle against Kirat, uncovering layers of deception, legal battles, and personal trauma.

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Support Slow Journalism:

To further support investigative journalism and the production of series like "Sweet Bobby," consider donating to Tortoise Media at tortoisemedia.com/support-us. Your contributions help sustain responsible and in-depth reporting.

Transcript

[Alexei Mostras]

Thank you for listening to Sweet Bobby. This podcast has been on an incredible journey since we released it back in 2021, and since then I've gone on to investigate a whole range of other stories. There's hoaxed about one of the most serious conspiracies in the UK and my search for the people behind it who trolled Amber, which digs into the bot campaign against Amber heard during the celebrity trial of the century, which Johnny Depp. And this autumn I released Elon's Spies, all about the private investigators used by one of the most powerful men on the planet, Elon Musk. So if you liked what you heard with Sweet Bobby and you want to try another of my investigative podcasts, just search for Tortoise Investigates. That's Tortoise Investigates. It's the home of all our best investigations, all in one place.

[Unknown]

Get ready for your next True Crime binge.

[Kirat]

It's all a blur. My Aunt Ilsa called me and she just said, get to the hospital. The doctor came in and told us that there's really not much more that they could do for her and that we need to go say goodbye.

[Unknown]

This doesn't happen to people like me. A new True Crime 10 part series from the makers of Sword and Scale launches March 3rd. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

[Alexei Mostras]

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[Nilesh]

Even if you start repeating yourself, even.

[Alexei Mostras]

If you're on your deathbed and you need to make one last call or text, right?

[Unknown]

Or.

[Alexei Mostras]

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[Nilesh]

Opinions will always differ. And so they should, because everyone draws from different influences. Parents, peers, politics, education, media, culture. What you believe depends on who you believe. Financial Times readers know that their opinions are reliable because they're shaped by trusted, robust opinions. Confident decisions. Source FT to subscribe, go to ft.comforward/sourceft so it's Thursday and I've just arrived outside the radio station. I was scared as I was leaving and I'm scared now. It's the first time I'm doing the show Since Sweet Bobby went live, since.

[Alexei Mostras]

The podcast came out, Kira hasn't presented her regular show, but for the first time she's on her way back to Desi Radio.

[Nilesh]

I don't know if people will know what I've been through because I haven't put anything on my socials very much and like, I've always been private on my socials, so.

[Alexei Mostras]

And as Kira is preparing to go back on air, we're putting together this final episode. It was going to be all about closure, about Kirak getting her life back on track despite everything, including all the tensions and complications within her own Punjabi Sikh community. And it's still all about that. But we've basically had to rewrite the end of the series because something new came to light, something unexpected. Just as we were putting together the finishing touches, I get a call from Kierat. And it's a call that for the first time really gives me insight into why Simran did what she did. The closest I think I've ever gotten.

[Nilesh]

There was a phrase that she used which bothered me. She honestly believed that we were both in a dark place and living in this kind of alternative reality of this fantasy world that she'd created was bringing us both some kind of happiness and joy. And then the fact that she's only just realized that it wasn't any kind of fantasy for me.

[Alexei Mostras]

I'm Alexei Mostris and from Tortoise Media, you're listening to Sweet Bobby, episode six, Motive. For me, it. It makes no difference. I know. I know her and, and I know who she is and I've known her since she was little girl. That's Nilesh, a childhood friend of Kirat's. He's reacting to an apology letter signed by Simran Bogle, the person who catfished Kirat for almost a decade. We want her to move on. We want her to be, you know well and find a happy life. That's what we want more than anything else. By 2022 years had passed since Simran confessed to this monumental deceit. But when Kirat sued her in court, her lawyers came out all guns blazing. They accused Kirat of grooming her while she was still at school. It's a pretty astonishing and incendiary allegation. And it was yet another blow for Kirat. After so many years of struggling, now she was faced with an expensive legal battle. But then suddenly, Simran changed tack. One day in spring this year, 2021, Simran offered to settle the case. And who did she write this to? Directly to you, or it's an apology.

[Nilesh]

Letter it's like a formal apology letter to me and I'm allowed to show a limited number of people so I have to tell her who I'm showing it to so she even knows who.

[Alexei Mostras]

I'm showing it to it meant after years of fighting Kirat would finally get a small payout and more importantly Simran agreed to give her a written apology But Simran's lawyers had one more card to play the apology came with strings.

[Nilesh]

Attached no, it's a private apology so it comes straight to me and the court knows I'm getting a private apology but they also know who I'm showing it to I'm not allowed to say what the contents are to anybody else no one's allowed to have a copy of it, make a copy of it, anything and I put your name down on the list of people that I want to show it to.

[Alexei Mostras]

Kirat had wanted a public apology something that could be read out in court But Simran would only settle if the apology was private or at least semi private she insisted that Kirat could only show the apology to about 30 people and even worse, none of the people on the agreed list could make any copies of the apology or tell anyone else what it said When Kira heard this she was furious it felt like an extension of the control Simran had tried to keep over her that same dynamic again Simran or Bobby or whoever calling the shots Kira argued with her lawyers telling them that it just wasn't good enough but it wasn't just this that Kirat was unhappy about she also felt like the wording of the apology was just too vague so she rewrote it herself making it more punchy and Simran agreed to sign this version but she still insisted that it couldn't be public Kirat felt deeply uncomfortable about this but she was being told realistically this might be the best she was going to get so she agreed to settle on these terms A semi private apology that wasn't even in Simran's own words but still this was the only documentary proof that Kirat had of Simran's guilt so when Kirat showed it to those closest to her to some of the pre agreed list of 30 friends and family I wanted to be there and to be honest I kind of imagined tears and emotion but actually that was a miscalculation Nilesh's take seemed to be that the apology made no difference either way he'd support Kirat no matter what it is what it is we just worried about her well being doesn't matter how it happened and how she was gullible, but.

[Nilesh]

It'S that very perception of you, like saying gullible is that that's like. For me it's a problem because I don't think I was gullible. It was like she'd gone out of her way to do this to me. And this is the thing, like lots of people think you must have been so gullible, you must be so gullible. And I kept like challenging that and things. It is. I mean, Alexei, you've been through the evidence. You've seen and read like God knows how many conversations, but you can see I'm like challenging all the way through. I'm arguing. I was. I tried to get away, I tried to get out of the relationship, but I was just emotionally blackmailed into staying into it. But it's just like that whole perception and this is the thing, the perception of what I don't want people to have of me now is that I'm gullible or I'm vulnerable because I've stood up to her.

[Alexei Mostras]

I've spent a lot of time, time with Kirat by now and I know that for her the details really matter. And when people like Nilesh tell her to move on, as well intentioned as that is, it's missing the point. She wants people to understand the details of the scam, to ask questions about how it worked, because the more you understand that, the sophistication of it all, the less you'll think she's gullible. And the more you'll think, shit, maybe this could have happened to me. And that all applies to her own family too.

[Nilesh]

The awkward. My dad's upstairs. You can probably hear my dad on the phone constantly. He's just in denial. I've told. He knows you here, right? Totally in denial. It's so difficult for me in that sense. If my dad's in denial, can you imagine our community?

[Alexei Mostras]

When are you going to show him the letter?

[Nilesh]

I've offered three times. It's sitting there on the top, but.

[Kirat's Dad]

Yeah, it's just he doesn't want to know.

[Nilesh]

I don't know what's going through his head. I don't know whether he feels ashamed of me, scared of the family. I don't know. But it's the kind of genuine. I'm guessing it's the fears that you'd have in our community that.

[Kirat's Dad]

Hmm.

[Nilesh]

But doesn't make it easy for me.

[Alexei Mostras]

Kira is still struggling to talk about what happened with her own family. She lives with her mum, dad and two younger brothers. But since all this was revealed, neither of her parents have really wanted to talk about any of it. And despite Kirat having this apology letter for months, her dad still hasn't read it. So I really wanted to speak to him. And the fact that her dad just doesn't seem to want to know. I do find this really sad because I've heard Kirat speak about him with great affection in the days after Simran's confession, for instance, he was the person she most wanted to protect her.

[Nilesh]

So I had to go and tell this other family who'd been supportive and been talking to him too. I remember at that point I was sitting in their living room trying to explain all of this and just felt like a vulnerable little girl again. And you just want your dad? Just. Just wanted my dad. My dad was in Kenya and I knew I couldn't tell him because I didn't know what would happen. I didn't know how he'd feel.

[Alexei Mostras]

Kiret's dad was often away in Kenya for long periods and he wasn't there when Simran revealed that she was the catfish. So I really wanted to speak to him, to hear his reaction to Simran's apology. Not just because I wanted this for Kirat, but because I thought it might also give us some clues about how their wider community would treat this story too. Should we go in and see whether we can speak to.

[Nilesh]

Yeah, yeah, let's. Yeah, let's see.

[Alexei Mostras]

Does he know we're coming?

[Nilesh]

No.

[Alexei Mostras]

Hey, Mrs. Basi.

[Kirat's Dad]

Nice to. Nice to see you again.

[Alexei Mostras]

How are you? Fine.

[Kirat's Dad]

I'm fine.

[Alexei Mostras]

Almost as soon as we step into the hallway, the same hallway where Simran confessed three years ago, Kiret's mum ushers us into the living room and offers us cardamom tea. And just as I'm thinking about how to persuade Kiret's dad to speak to me, I hear him walk down the stairs.

[Kirat's Dad]

Hi.

[Nilesh]

Hi, Doug.

[Kirat's Dad]

How are you?

Very nice to meet you, Mr. Aston. Nice to meet you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Alexei Mostras]

What a lovely house. At this point, we're all sitting in a circle in Kirat's living room. Her dad is opposite me, looking quite uncomfortable, Kirat sitting next to him about a meter away, not making much eye contact. She's on her phone and her mum is sitting kind of over my shoulder watching us. It's all quite tense. We.

[Kirat's Dad]

We don't want you to speak about anything that you don't know. It would just be interesting to get your perspective as Kira's dad, have your.

[Nilesh]

Tea before you get cold.

[Kirat's Dad]

This is delicious. It is very lovely.

It is very unfortunate that this happened anyway, it shouldn't happen to anybody and I really, I'm sad that it happened. That's all I can say, really.

[Alexei Mostras]

I thought that if Kirat's dad was going to do an interview, we'd have a bit of time to prepare, at least enough time for Gary, my producer, to get the mic set up properly. But as he started talking, I realized it was now or never.

[Kirat's Dad]

I think when Mendy's this came into. I'm saying came in the media or it wasn't, I just read it on the Internet and it is quite baffling to read that. It's quite shocking as well. And I went through it and August simply a ghost. And I think I can't even believe that it happened. It should not have happened.

[Alexei Mostras]

I feel like Kirat's dad does not want to read this letter that he thinks he's got as much information as he needs from what he read online.

[Kirat's Dad]

If you were willing, I think it would be really interesting to see what you thought of the apology letter because I think actually even more than the stuff on the Internet, it tells you what has happened. So if Kirak gives it to you, do you mind reading it and telling us what you think?

I don't mind reading it, obviously. I don't mind reading it, obviously. I'm the dad anyway.

[Nilesh]

So you can't say what's in it?

[Kirat's Dad]

Yeah. Oh yeah. You can't say what's in it. You can't describe what's in it, basically.

Even if I read it and whether I read. Whether I read it or not, you know, my conclusion would be what I've just said to you, it should not have happened. It is sad that this happened, but it should not even happen to anybody else.

[Alexei Mostras]

But Kirat passes it to him anyway. And while he reads, we wait. And I remember the clock ticking in the background adding to the tension.

[Kirat's Dad]

Okay. I mean, she's gone through hell, basically. It's over and I hope she gets on with her life.

Do you think this will let her get on with her life now? Do you think this is closure?

I believe it will sort of calm her down. In many ways it's something maybe it's deeply hurting to her and I've been totally oblivious, believe me, I've been totally oblivious. I just explained to you most of the time I did not know anything about it, let's say until I met Amrit and Amrit with her, that is the only time, and at that given time I was told not to involve myself in any matters.

This is. You don't have to answer this. But I have a daughter and if I imagined that in 20 years time she had been tricked and scammed in the same way as as Kirat has, I would be very upset and angry. And I wonder if you are.

It's a difficult question to answer. It is upsetting. But then over a period of time lots of things happen. From your teens up to. Up to time you get married. There are ups and downs agreements between people. Even during university times and things like that. You agree to get married and then, then something happens. That is the most upsetting thing in life. But it is upsetting. It doesn't go out of your mind all your life. So I really. I'm sorry for anybody. I'm sorry for Kirit. I'm even sorry for Simran. It shouldn't have happened.

[Nilesh]

Are you sorry for her? I'm sorry. I'm just like what the hell are you sorry for her for?

[Kirat's Dad]

Look, sorry, I'm saying, I'm saying sorry. It should not have happened.

[Nilesh]

But why you say? Why do you feel sorry for her?

[Kirat's Dad]

Look, because like my son, she has.

[Nilesh]

Chosen to do this.

[Kirat's Dad]

No, no, no, no. Listen to me. What, what I meant because she did something wrong. The grandfather is very badly hurt. Okay? And I felt sorry. I'm saying sorry that it should not happen because the grandfathers are very decent people.

You feel sorry about the situation to.

[Nilesh]

The parents, to the grandfather, yes, but not Simran or the situation.

[Kirat's Dad]

You.

[Nilesh]

Yeah, not for Simran.

[Kirat's Dad]

I would say.

No, it shouldn't have happened. Sorry that it happened, but it shouldn't have. It hurts the whole family. It upsets the relationships. You know, you cannot get on with life, not as before. So it is upsetting.

[Alexei Mostras]

Now I should say. This is obviously a difficult moment for Kirat and she probably would have reacted just as strongly if anyone had suggested they should feel sorry for Simran, not just her dad. And her reaction, this tension is all bound up, she told me, in a sense of guilt for letting her family down, for exposing them to hurt.

[Kirat's Dad]

Thank you very much. I mean that was like, you know, we don't want to push it at all. We're just very grateful. Very grateful. And we know it's. We know it's quite hard.

My last comment is that the parents were very decent. The grandfather is such a decent person. Believe me, honestly, they're from a decent family. Why this has happened is beyond my understanding. Anyway, it's Totally beyond my understanding. I've told kids so many people previously I've told Kirat I do not know the girl, I do not know Simran, I haven't talked to her. You can put that in the dad has never talked to Kirat's dad has never talked to this girl.

[Alexei Mostras]

When Kirat's dad finished speaking a lot of stuff fell into place for me. I'm pretty sure that he doesn't understand anywhere near the full extent of the scene. And you can literally feel, can't you, how uncomfortable he was. He seemed to be battling within himself between protecting his daughter on the one hand and not rocking the boat. And on one level I'm thinking maybe this is understandable. This is an older guy from a community that both experts and Kirat have told me is quite patriarchal, quite traditional. Plus he's got complex ties to Simran Bogle's family. I mean Simran's dad was best man at Kirat's parents wedding.

[Nilesh]

Why me? He's just like, why me?

[Kirat's Dad]

It's a huge question.

[Nilesh]

It's such a huge question. It's just like I don't understand.

[Kirat's Dad]

I reckon that we're going to get to the end of this podcast series and never know.

[Nilesh]

I've made my peace with not knowing.

[Kirat's Dad]

It's always difficult to come to a conclusion. Even if you ask Simran why she did it, she will not give you a. She will not give you an answer why I did it.

That's a, that is a really good point. She might not know her.

[Alexei Mostras]

The question of Simran's motivation keeps coming up. Of course it does. It's pretty much all anyone I talk to about this show wants to know. Why did she do it? And how like the nuts and bolts of it. A few days ago a woman who knows Simran got in touch through a third party. This woman remembers going on a hen do with Simran just a few years ago and she says that Simran didn't go out that night, the night of the do, because she apparently had to jump on some business calls to America on Skype. And this I find particularly interesting because if what Simran was actually doing was calling Kirat as Bobby, it should shows that the scam was taking over her life almost as much as it was taking over Kirat's. While Kirat was fighting Simran in the civil courts, her legal team kept pressing the police to act. Yet by March 2020, almost two years after the confession, the investigation had gone nowhere. So just as the pandemic was hitting Kira issued a formal complaint and 13 months later, in April 2021, she finally got a response.

[Nilesh]

And basically they'd said, there's nothing to answer for.

[Alexei Mostras]

The conclusion was because we've got the document that they sent back to you. And the conclusion was, while I have absolutely no doubt that you have felt victimised by the events described in your allegation, I can only concur that the behaviour described, while morally objectionable, does not.

[Kirat's Dad]

Violate any existing legal statute.

[Alexei Mostras]

The complaint board upheld Hounslow Police's decision to drop the case. They basically said they did the right thing. Kirat was devastated and it was evident that they didn't listen, didn't understand the complexity of the case and that we had the right to appeal to the iopc, the independent Office for Police conduct. The police just focused on the sexual aspect. They failed to have any regard for the coercive control, the controlling behavior element, the malicious communications, harassment and this 10 year deception. They just did not grasp the case. I've seen the document dismissing her complaint and the only offence it mentions is the Sexual Offences Act. The police don't seem to have considered any other potential crimes since this podcast came out. We've heard from many other people who've been through similar experiences to Kierat, people who've been tricked for years by catfishers, often with devastating psychological consequences. And all too often the police have refused to engage. So it really genuinely surprised me when, against this pretty bleak backdrop, Kira phoned me recently with some positive news. The iopc, the independent body that investigates the police, had looked at Kirat's case again. Kirat had written to them to make one final appeal. She'd actually got Amrit to send it, figuring they might take it more seriously if it came from a solicitor and the iopc. It found that the police hadn't properly considered Kirat's evidence. And the upshot is Hounslow Police may have to reconsider their decision to drop the case against Simran. Kirat is actually meeting an officer next month to go through everything, including the critical period where Bobbi was controlling her. And I'm thinking, hopefully this time Kirat will get more than 20 minutes to explain.

[Unknown]

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[Kirat]

Binge it's all a blur. My Aunt Ilsa called me and she just said, get to the hospital. The doctor came in and told us that there's really not much more that they could do for her and that we need to go say goodbye.

[Unknown]

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[Alexei Mostras]

A few days before this episode was due to come out, I have what's supposed to be a final conversation with Kierat, and we're sitting in her bedroom at home and it's one of the first times when I've been able to ask her about the IOPC decision.

[Kirat's Dad]

What do you hope happens now in light of the IOPC decision?

[Nilesh]

I hope that everything gets taken seriously. I mean, I don't wish harm on anybody, but she's got to be accountable and responsible for her behaviour. And if there are laws and if she's broken a law, she needs to like, face the consequences of what she's done. And it's. It's not that I'm being nasty here, but that's what it is. It's justice.

[Alexei Mostras]

I know that this might be one of my last chances to ask Kirat some of the questions that have been on my mind throughout making the series, some questions that I know you've been asking as well, I suppose.

[Kirat's Dad]

Let's, let's just address the, the how question because it's something that a lot of people are asking about. And I suppose the main question that we're getting is how Simran was able to do all those voices. Like, how do you think she was able to do it?

[Nilesh]

For me, it wasn't that many voices. It was including her own, which is herself. There was another four, I think.

[Kirat's Dad]

But how could she go from. How could she compellingly go from a man to a woman, to Simran to someone else without you recognizing that, well.

[Nilesh]

Bobby has a different accent and he was obviously not well. And that whole thing had been explained to me. And then when you're speaking to somebody over a period of two or three years, it kind of normalizes itself. You just accept that that's his voice. Now, the fact that I knew he'd lost his voice during the stroke and medics and other people had, you know, the medical team had told me he's lost his voice. He can't talk, he can't move. He's only got this bit of movement in him left. And even when we're doing those initial calls, he couldn't speak to me. So I was getting reports of his voice therapy. He's going to his voice therapy session today.

[Unknown]

He.

[Nilesh]

And then after about almost a year of him having voice therapy and, you know, his rehab, he had another stroke and lost it again. So his voice never went back to exactly how it was. He had his accent.

[Kirat's Dad]

But you were also speaking to at least one other person. I'm going to get the initials wrong.

[Nilesh]

Maybe yj, that was right at the end in 2018.

[Kirat's Dad]

Right. But yj was a man, he hadn't had any damage to his voice. And Simran was yj. So what, what did that voice sound like?

[Nilesh]

Initially he'd only call me and cry. It was after his sister was unwell and he'd never called me before. But it was like he'd call me, then hang up and it'd be lots of crying and crying and crying because his sister was severely unwell and he was leaning on me for support. And I think it was also being used a distraction technique from me asking Bobby the 60 million questions of what the hell's your problem? Kind of thing. JJ and YJ's voices came into play so much later that. Because they sounded slightly different, but there was a similarity enough for them. Do you think That's. They're from the same family. But I was. I think at that point, I was constantly being shouted at. I was in a really bad place. And that probably clouded my judgment. I did think it. I did like, okay, oh, but he does sound like him. But you don't. You forget because you've been speaking to Bobby for two and a half years with this voice, which is. You don't think like that. You think they're brothers. You just. And I was a state at that point.

[Kirat's Dad]

If Simran is listening to this podcast and listening to this episode, do you have a message for her?

[Nilesh]

You brought this on yourself. But I don't know if you grasp what you've done and how you've impacted my life or other people's lives. Just. Just want you to wake up and understand how many people you've upset, including your own family. I'm not accepting the blame for that. I'm not accepting the blame for anything here. I haven't done anything wrong.

[Kirat's Dad]

What do you think the future looks like?

[Nilesh]

I don't know. I have no idea. I know what I want it to look like, but what do you want it.

[Kirat's Dad]

What do you want it to look like?

[Nilesh]

I'd like to be just, like, happy. Go, lucky me. I am whether I'm lucky, but I'm just like the happy, like, spirited person that I am. Just be that person without any worry, you know, move out, have my own place, find somebody. If I could have a family, you know, obviously that's something. Now the big thing that she's upset in my life, whether I could, can or can't have a family, I don't know. And just do all the things that I wanted. All those years of where I wanted to travel so much, and she knew I wanted to travel and do these things and would plan, you know, we've got. We. Me and Bobby had Pinterest, boards of holidays and stuff. And, you know, but just because that happened, she's not allowed to take that away from me. I'm still going to do those things for myself. Even if it wasn't with Bobby, Bobby wasn't real. And I've accepted that. And that's what lets me. I just keep saying that wasn't real. It was real to me at the time, but I've accepted that it's not real now. I've spoken out now. This is now going to be attached to me for the rest of my life. I can't run away from this. But at the end of the day, there's nothing there's. No shame in it. There's no embarrassment in it, because if you were in my shoes, you probably would have done the same.

[Unknown]

Get ready for your next True Crime binge.

[Kirat]

It's all a blur. My Aunt Ilsa called me and she just said, get to the hospital. The doctor came in and told us that there's really not much more that they could do for her and that we need to go say goodbye.

[Unknown]

This doesn't happen to people like me. A new True Crime 10 part series from the makers of Sword and Scale launches March 3rd. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

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[Alexei Mostras]

I thought this was where we were going to end, but then there was that phone call I mentioned at the start. The one that changed this whole final episode.

[Kirat's Dad]

Hey Kira, how you doing?

[Alexei Mostras]

Kirat had been speaking to her friend about the apology letter, the one that Simran had signed but didn't write, the one that she had shown her dad.

[Nilesh]

And she said, you know it's so unemotional and I just remember trying to think of a time when she was emotional and I suddenly remembered that this had been sent to me as a draft apology to see if I would accept this, but it was only for my eyes and it was the most emotional thing from her in any sense.

[Alexei Mostras]

Kira had received another apology letter before the one that ended up in the settlement, and this draft apology letter had been written by Simran herself. This one was much more personal. It was written directly to Kira from Simran and Simran wanted Kirat to keep it to herself. If Kirat had accepted this letter, a completely private apology, as the basis of her settlement, then she could never have shown it to anyone else. Instead, she insisted on a version that could be shown to her close friends and family, those 30 pre agreed people I mentioned earlier. So this draft apology sent in early 2021 kind of got forgotten about. It became just another document in a long list of emails and drafts that Kirat received leading up to the formal settlement. Even now, Kirat can't show us this original direct apology for legal reasons, but I did ask her if she could give me the gist of it because this letter is really important. It's really the only document Kirat has that gives any real clues about Simran's motivation, about why she did it and it's written in Simran's own words.

[Kirat's Dad]

I mean I suppose my first question is do you remember how it, how it started? Like what did she, how did she open it? What did she say to you? At first.

[Nilesh]

You know it was a, it was an emotional letter and it was all like, you know, she, she would change everything if she could and it was all very gushing and you know, I'm sorry for all the hurt I've kept pain and caused and all that kind of, you know, what you'd expect somebody to say.

[Kirat's Dad]

So she said she opened it with an, with an apology?

[Nilesh]

Yeah, I mean she did, yeah. It didn't, it wasn't, yeah, sorry for the hurt.

[Kirat's Dad]

I mean we've been thinking as you know so much about Simran's motivation like what made her do it, what made.

[Nilesh]

Her, it was the same as what she'd said when she'd confessed that she was in a dark place. I mean that's exactly the words that she used when she came home and confess.

[Alexei Mostras]

Kierat remembers the letter opening with Simran explaining how this whole thing got started about how she was struggling with things going on in her personal life and she had other issues too and then how she met Kirat for the first time as a teenager and thought that they just clicked and then how the lies just snowballed out of control.

[Kirat's Dad]

What else do you remember the letter saying? I mean I'm absolutely fascinated because this is the first time that we've really heard anything from Simran in her own words about why she did it.

[Nilesh]

I mean I was really upset with this letter. She thought I was okay. I think some kind of. There was a phrase that she used which bothered me. She honestly believed that we were both in a dark place and living in this kind of alternative reality of this fantasy world that she'd created was bringing us both some kind of happiness and joy. And then the fact that she's only just realized that it wasn't any kind of fantasy for me and it wasn't bringing me any kind of happiness that really, I mean that really sticks out for me.

[Kirat's Dad]

And then, and then is there any indication about, in the letter about why she allowed it to kind of continue? What, what did she say about why she allowed it to get to the stage?

[Nilesh]

It did in the letter she said something along the lines of she had wanted to leave. You know, she, she said she'd try to end it. And the reason that she was so nasty to me and so cruel to me using those characters was hoping that I'd leave or I. She'd push me away and I'd just leave and be easy for her.

[Kirat's Dad]

So what was she saying? That she was. She was purposefully nasty to you in order to try and make you break up with Bobby?

[Nilesh]

Yes, but then Bobby would always have a heart attack or a stroke and I didn't have to come back in. So I don't understand why didn't.

[Kirat's Dad]

Did the letter say anything about why she didn't stop it herself?

[Nilesh]

That was her effort, I guess.

[Kirat's Dad]

So she. On the surface of it, if you didn't know anything about her or the context, the letter itself is a pretty fulsome apology.

[Nilesh]

Yeah, I think anybody else reading it would think differently. To me that it's emotional and heartfelt and that she's really feeling pain.

[Kirat's Dad]

Did. Did you believe that?

[Nilesh]

No. I mean, no, I didn't think it was genuine at all. It was all about herself.

[Kirat's Dad]

Just explain why, because as you said, on the face of it it seems like quite a heartfelt apology. So just explain the reasoning behind why you thought the opposite.

[Nilesh]

She could have sent that to me ages ago. She could have stopped it being filed to court. She could have. Why did she only recognize all of this now? Did she not recognize it when she confessed?

[Alexei Mostras]

Our team is split on this one. I agree with Kierat. It doesn't ring true for me at all. After all, it came only after months of aggressive tactics from Simran's lawyers. And Simran knew that it could only ever be seen by Kierat and no one else. So all that stuff about her being in a dark place and being sorry, I find it very difficult to believe. And she seems to have had no trouble getting on with her life. Whereas Gary and Claudia, they think that maybe the letter does offer an insight into Simran's psychology. They think that if Simran knew the letter would only be seen by Kirat, maybe she felt like she could reveal more. But there's only one person who can say for sure. And if you're listening Simran, we'd still like to hear from you. And we're going to stick with this case whatever happens. Not least to see if the police reopen their investigation. Because true justice is yet to come for Kierat. There is one thing though that I found out right before recording this final episode. I found out that Simran is no longer in her high powered job, that at some point between August and the time when this podcast went out, she left. Now, I don't know why she's no longer there, but it does perhaps feel like a step forward. Forward towards some sort of accountability towards consequences. I know the question of why Simran did what she did is tantalising, but it might not be the most important thing here. Because with or without a clear explanation of motive, Kirat does seem to be on her way to recovery. She's still got a whole bunch of issues to work through, financial, professional, but she's back on her radio show. She's got her supporters, people like Amrit, she's even been on a few dates. And despite everything that's happened to her, she's finally able to start reclaiming her life.

[Nilesh]

So from me, until next time, go well. Go safely. Keep safety smiling. This is G signing out on the B show. Remember, look after yourselves and one another. Oh, I'm glad I got the show today.

[Alexei Mostras]

While making the series, Simran's lawyers gave us this statement on her behalf. This matter concerns a family dispute over events that began over a decade ago.

[Kirat's Dad]

When I was a schoolgirl.

[Alexei Mostras]

As far as I'm concerned, this is a private family matter that has been resolved and I strongly object to the numerous unfounded and seriously defamatory accusations that have been made about me, as well as details of private matters that have been shared with the media. Thanks for listening to this episode. Sweet Bobby was written and reported by me, Alexi Mostras, produced by Gary Marshall with additional reporting and production by Claudia Williams. Sound design is by Carla Patella. The Executive Producer is Basha Cummings.

[Nilesh]

Thanks for listening. To hear about all of our investigative series, follow Tortoise Investigates wherever you get your podcasts. For the best Tortoise listening experience, curated.

[Unknown]

By our journalists and with additional episodes.

[Nilesh]

And content, download the Tortoise audio app. Or if you just want early and.

[Unknown]

Ad free access to our podcasts, you.

[Nilesh]

Can subscribe to Tortoise plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Unknown]

Get ready for your next True Crime binge.

[Kirat]

It's all a blur. My Aunt Ilsa called me and she just said get to the hospital. The doctor came in and told us that there's really not much more that they could do for her and that we need to go say goodbye.

[Unknown]

This doesn't happen to people like me. A new True Crime 10 part series from the makers of Sword and scale launches March 3. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.