How Megan Thee Stallion brought Japanese hip hop to the Hot 100

Summary

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Switched On Pop: How Megan Thee Stallion Brought Japanese Hip Hop to the Hot 100

Date: September 17, 2024
Hosts: Nate Sloan (Musicologist), Charlie Harding (Songwriter)
Episode Theme: This episode dives into Megan Thee Stallion's unexpected smash hit "Mamushi," featuring Japanese hip hop artist Yuki Chiba. The hosts dissect its musical and cultural significance, explore the broader history of Japanese music in the U.S. charts, and reflect on how Megan's approach sets a new standard for cross-cultural collaboration.

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Episode Overview

Megan Thee Stallion’s third album, "Megan," features a surprise breakout hit: "Mamushi" with Yuki Chiba. Nate and Charlie unpack why this partly Japanese-language track has resonated with American audiences and how it navigates the dangers of cultural appropriation—ultimately representing a respectful, skillful cultural exchange. The episode also explores past Japanese songs to chart in America and analyzes how Megan's approach contrasts with infamous cases of cultural misstep by Western artists.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Megan Thee Stallion's Breakout Hit: "Mamushi"

• Surprise Success:
  The biggest hit from "Megan" isn't the lead single "Cobra" or the anticipated promo tracks, but "Mamushi," the fourth single featuring Japan’s Yuki Chiba.

• Viral Phenomenon:
  "Mamushi" spawned a viral dance and captured international attention, especially after Megan brought Chiba on stage during her London tour.
  Quote:
  “This song is incredibly popular. It has its own viral dance, of course. I mean, as one does in 2024.” (Nate, 02:13)

• Song Title Significance:
  "Mamushi" refers to a Japanese venomous pit viper and can symbolize a femme fatale in Japanese folklore, adding to the album’s reptilian motif.
  Quote:
  “It's a venomous pit viper native to Japan... within Japanese culture, there's also maybe certain folktales that it references involving, like, a femme fatale.” (Nate, 03:55)

• Half-Japanese Lyrics:
  Remarkable for a major U.S. chart hit, a significant portion of "Mamushi" is in Japanese—a rarity outside K-pop’s recent global success.

2. Musical Analysis: The Hooks That Hit

• Breathy "Sta" Triplets:
  Megan’s forceful, rhythmic delivery of “star” morphs into cleverly layered breaths that double as percussion—a signature motif.
  Quote:
  “The breath becomes this triplet figure within the song... it's even a sample in a way. I don't think that's literally her breathing like that... it's been processed into the track.” (Nate, 08:04)

• Contrast of Vocal Styles:
  Megan’s aggressive energy contrasts with Yuki Chiba’s calm, collected flow.
  Quote:
  “Yukichiba, by contrast, seems like he's got all the time in the world. He's like, just kind of, like, speaking gently. It's so cool to me.” (Nate, 12:06)

• Cross-Linguistic Play:
  Both artists alternate languages and share verses. Notably, Chiba uses English lines at the end of his verse, mirroring Megan’s use of Japanese.

• Beat Construction & Signature Sounds:
  Produced by Japanese beatmaker Koshi, the instrumental features Megan’s signature minimal, aggressive piano—connecting it to her previous hits like "Savage" and "Megan's Piano."
  Quote:
  “Kind of like if it's a Megan beat, it's gotta have Megan's piano in it.” (Charlie, 15:07)

3. Authentic Cultural Exchange: Megan's Approach vs. Appropriation

• Anime Influence & Authenticity:
  Megan’s well-documented love for anime (e.g., references to "Jujutsu Kaisen" and the character Gojo in "Otaku Hot Girl") grounds her engagement with Japanese pop culture as genuine, not superficial.
  Quote:
  “Megan Thee Stallion is obsessed with anime...she is deep in this world.” (Nate, 15:54)

• Musical Parallels:
  The episode draws links between Megan’s use of breath and ad-libs (panting, snake-like sounds) and thematic threads across her discography, reinforcing her consistent and original artistry.

• Exchange, Not Extraction:
  The hosts contrast Megan’s collaborative, platform-sharing approach in "Mamushi" (featuring Chiba and a Japanese producer) with past Western artists who used Japanese culture as mere ornamentation.

4. The Fraught History of Japanese Music in the U.S.

• "Sukiyaki" by Kyu Sakamoto (1963):
  A touching ballad retitled for U.S. audiences after a Japanese dish, effectively stripping its original political subtext and meaning.
  Quote:
  “It's like calling the song California Roll.” (Charlie, 23:20)

• Transformation Through Covers:
  "Sukiyaki" inspired covers by Taste of Honey (1980s, English) and Selena (1993, Spanish), each reinterpreting the song through a different cultural and musical lens.

• Modern Japanese Tracks:
  Notable crossovers include viral novelties ("PPAP" by Pikotaro, 2016) and collaborations (Hikaru Utada & Skrillex, “Face My Fears,” 2019), but few serious hip hop cross-pollinations have broken through until now.

5. American Attempts at Japanese Influence: Pitfalls and Parodies

• Gwen Stefani’s “Harajuku Girls” (2004):
  Criticized for reducing Japanese culture to fashion props, with voiceless Japanese women used as accessories.
  Quote:
  “She lets this culture speak for itself. Gwen Stefani uses the culture to speak for her.” (Nate, 34:23)

• Avril Lavigne’s “Hello Kitty” (2013):
  Derided as superficial and disingenuous—essentially a "postcard of Japan" with little substance.

• Megan's Contrast:
  Megan platforms Japanese collaborators and maintains her own musical identity, representing cultural exchange rather than appropriation.
  Quote:
  “There's a give and take, a back and forth that results in something new and exciting and ideally, you know, beneficial for both cultures.” (Nate, 36:55)

6. The Cultural Moment: Japanese Pop Culture's Growing Influence

• Gen Z's Obsession:
  Interview with Hannah Lee (Japan Society) highlights that 42% of Gen Z regularly watch anime—more than follow NFL.
  Quote:
  “42% of Gen Z watches anime on a weekly basis... more than, like, watch NFL or something.” (Hannah Lee, 37:57)

• Implications:
  Megan is “catching the start of a new wave,” heralding an era where Japanese culture may become as ubiquitous as K-pop in the U.S.

• Responsibility in Collaboration:
  In an era of fraught Japan-U.S. history, Megan’s model—respectful, knowledgeable, platform-sharing—sets the bar for future cultural exchanges, both musically and ethically.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Power of Breath in Music (07:29):
  "Her breath is doing as much work as the actual words themselves." — Charlie

• On the Meaning of "Mamushi" (03:59):
  "It's a venomous pit viper native to Japan... a femme fatale." — Nate

• On Megan's Artistic Consistency (14:18):
  "If it's a Megan beat, it's gotta have Megan's piano in it." — Charlie

• On Cultural Exchange vs. Appropriation (34:23):
  "Megan Thee Stallion gives voice to a rising Japanese hip hop artist... lets this culture speak for itself. Gwen Stefani uses the culture to speak for her." — Nate

• On Generational Shifts (37:57):
  "42% of Gen Z watches anime on a weekly basis... more than watch NFL or something." — Hannah Lee

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:19] — Introduction to Megan’s latest album
• [02:28] — "Mamushi" featuring Yuki Chiba becomes a surprise hit
• [03:55] — Etymology and symbolism of "Mamushi"
• [06:49] — Analysis of bilingual chorus
• [07:29] — Unique breathy "sta" as a rhythmic device
• [10:47] — Japanese references in Megan’s verses
• [12:06] — Contrasting vocal styles: Megan vs. Yuki Chiba
• [14:33] — Megan’s signature piano sound
• [15:35] — "Otaku Hot Girl," anime references, and musical Easter eggs
• [21:34] — History lesson: "Sukiyaki" and earlier Japanese crossovers
• [28:48] — Viral novelties: "PPAP" and modern Japanese chart entries
• [30:43] — Pitfalls: Gwen Stefani’s "Harajuku Girls" and Avril Lavigne’s "Hello Kitty"
• [36:55] — Megan’s collaborative model and maintaining authenticity
• [37:57] — Hannah Lee (Japan Society) on Gen Z and anime’s reach
• [38:33] — Megan as the standard bearer for respectful cross-cultural collaboration

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Conclusion: A Blueprint for the Future

Megan Thee Stallion’s "Mamushi" is more than a chart-topping hit—it’s a model for a new, respectful era of cross-cultural musical exchange. By giving Japanese collaborators an equal platform, maintaining her own creative identity, and approaching Japanese culture with knowledge and authenticity, Megan sets a high bar for Western artists. With the growing mainstream profile of Japanese pop culture among Gen Z, this approach is not just timely but essential.

Hosts’ Final Words:
"If we are on the precipice of a Japanese cultural wave... I want to look towards Megan Thee Stallion as the standard bearer for how this can go down." (Nate, 38:54)

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Listeners are encouraged to share their own favorite Japanese artists and anticipate more boundary-crossing collaborations as the global music landscape evolves.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

Welcome to Switched On Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan.

[D]

And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding.

[C]

Charlie Harding. Back in June, there was an important release that we have neglected to talk about.

[D]

What was that?

[C]

Megan. Thee Stallion's third studio album, Megan Breaking Down.

[E]

And I had the whole world watching. But the worst part is really who watched me? Every night I cried, I almost died. And nobody close try to stop me. Long as everybody getting paid, right? Everything will be okay, right? I'm winning, so nobody tripping. Bet. If I ever fall off, everybody go miss.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

This is like Prague fusion metal hip hop. This is awesome.

[C]

That was the album's lead single, Cobra. But something interesting happened, Charlie. That lead single is not the biggest hit from this album, okay? Neither was the album's second single, Hiss, nor was the album's third single, boa. Do you sense a theme here?

[D]

Snakes.

[C]

It was Megan's fourth single off this album, Mamushi, featuring the Japanese hip hop artist Yuki Chiba, that became the unlikely smash from this record. Yuki Chiba. Not really a household name, I think, to most US listeners. Certainly not someone with the same recognition as another of Megan's collaborators on this album. RM the rapper from bts, Right? Yuki Chiba. This is more of Megan going out on a limb, I think, and she's being rewarded. This song is incredibly popular. It has its own viral dance, of course. I mean, as one does in 2024.

[D]

We need to make a viral dance.

[C]

And when Megan performed the song on her tour in London, she brought out Yuki Chiba, and they were having the Time of their lives.

[E]

Make some motherfucking noise all the way from Japan. Star.

[C]

Yuki. Star.

[E]

Star. Star.

[D]

Hm. Will I regret asking for the translation of Mamushi? And does it have to do with snakes?

[C]

I mean, you won't regret it, and you are correct. So two for two.

[D]

What does it mean?

[C]

It's a venomous pit viper native to Japan.

[D]

Oh, cool.

[C]

And my understanding is that within Japanese culture, there's also maybe certain folktales that it references involving, like, a femme fatale. So I think Megan is also reaching into that meaning as well.

[D]

Okay, I'm glad I asked.

[C]

So this is pretty interesting, Charlie. Here's a hip hop track by one of our most verbally dexterous and attitudinal rappers in the game today.

[D]

Truth.

[C]

It's become the biggest hit off this album, and half of the song is in Japanese.

[D]

It's definitely notable on the Hot 100 and for any major hit like K Pop has been having a moment, but J Pop definitely has been not as strong. And Japanese hip hop has not been a big export to the US Market in terms of chart performance recently.

[C]

So with that in mind, today I want to listen to this track, Mamushi. I want to find out why it's resonating with listeners, and then I want to talk about the history of Japanese songs within the US music industry. And we can think about how Megan Thee Stallion has maybe avoided some of the pitfalls of appropriation and exoticization that so many American artists have failed to avoid when they're trying to incorporate Japanese music into their work.

[D]

So you're saying that dabbling into the world of Japanese pop music is a bit of a mamushi, a pit viper. Like, it's a dangerous game to play, but she's pulling it off. Or so we'll see.

[C]

I like that, Charlie. Let's enter the viper pit. First, I want to unpack everything that's happening in Mamushi and see if we can uncover what makes this song so catchy and effective. Let's spin that chorus one more time. Okay.

[D]

There's something about this groove. I can't quite name it.

[C]

Okane kasegu orrera wasta Okane kasegu watashi wasta. I cannot get this out of my head, Charlie. I'm going to become a weeb after spending the last week listening to this track. Are you familiar with Weeb? Yeah, see, I wasn't either. See, we're already learning.

[D]

Okay, what's a Weeb?

[C]

A weeb is a non Japanese person who is obsessed with Japanese Culture.

[D]

Okay, okay. So you're on your duolingo doing some. Doing some language skills.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, this isn't the hardest translation because Megan, thee stallion, first gives us this chorus in English.

[E]

I get money, I'm a star, Star, star, star, star, star, star. I get money, I'm a star.

[C]

And then we get the Japanese version and it's slightly different. Okane kasegu orreros. That's what the rapper Yuki Chiba sings. And that's like first person plural. Like, we get money, we are stars. And then Megan comes in and she says, okanai kasegu watashi wasta. And that's like, I get money, I'm a star. And then they both say, sta, sta, sta, which is a word that is the same in Japanese and English or almost. So that's a nice bit of overlap. Star. Sta becomes this point of convergence for these two rappers.

[D]

It's something noteworthy in the performance that Megan gives. The way that she says the word sta, the breath of it all. Her breath is doing as much work as the actual words themselves.

[C]

Sta.

[D]

There's aggression, there's intensity. It's slightly distorted. I literally think we can hear more of the breath than we can hear the enunciated syllables.

[C]

I think it's even more intricate than that. The breath becomes its own rhythmic element. She says, sta, sta, sta, sta. I'm not sure that was.

[D]

I don't know that that's.

[C]

I apologize to everyone who just had to hear that. But here's what I'm trying to convey. The breath becomes this triplet figure within the song. Let's listen to it again. And like you were saying, let's just focus in on that breathy triplet.

[E]

I get money, I'm a star, star.

[D]

Star, star, star, star, star, star, star, star, star.

[C]

I think this is even a sample in a way. I don't think that's literally her breathing like that. I feel like it's been processed into the track, but I might be wrong.

[D]

I don't know if it's a sample. I mean, it's certainly processing. That's maybe very heavy compression and distortion. It's emphasizing something happening in the back of the word. A very quiet moment that would otherwise be inaudible. So it's definitely some post production trickery. I agree.

[C]

Sta, sta, sta.

[D]

I don't think you're doing.

[C]

It's hard to do.

[D]

I don't think there's an in breath and an out breath. I think it's two out breaths. Stah. Stah. Not sta. But.

[C]

Okay, we gotta go. We gotta go back to the tape here.

[E]

I get money I'm a star, star, star. Sta.

[C]

No, it's definitely an exhalation and then an inhalation. Inhalation. Sta. Stah.

[D]

You're right.

[C]

Stah. Well, okay, this is just upsetting, but let's. Let's move on to what this breathiness might symbolize within the track. And if I had to connect it to the world of the track, this is all. Like so many of Megan's songs, this is really about her sense of empowerment and confidence and her place at the top of the rap game.

[D]

It's like saying body, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. It's just like her breath is powerful.

[C]

It's a sense of effort and hard work. And when you hear that, you feel like Megan is ready to leave it all on the floor with every track. You know, she's like the hardest working rapper in the game. And you can literally hear her panting through it.

[D]

It makes me think, I don't know if this pit viper, the mamushi, has some kind of hiss, but there is this sort of like snake like quality to it. It's menacing, it's fearful. It's gonna put you on edge. Like I'm paying attention.

[C]

I like that. I like that. And that's like a core part of Megan Thee Stallion's imagery, not just on this album, but throughout her career. So maybe it does that sense of danger and caution that she's trying to create. Now if we move past this breathy triplet, we get to her actual flow in the first verse and she's not leaving behind the Japanese references. She drops this other great line in the middle of the first verse.

[E]

He know who I am Ain't had to say my name Stack it up like Tetris but this money ain't a.

[D]

Game.

[C]

Drinking out the bottle getting twisted Maruchan, Tetris Kawaii. She's saying, I'm like, I'm cute, you know, don't mess with me but isn't Tetris Russian?

[D]

I mean, it was released.

[C]

Tetris is Russian. I'm not saying every lyric is Japanese.

[D]

But it was released on the Game Boy and then it had.

[C]

Okay, but yeah. And Nintendo is Japanese. That's true. Okay, so this track is replete with Japanese language, Japanese references. And then we haven't even gotten to the feature from Yuki Chiba. I love this guy's flow.

[D]

It's Interesting that the whole track is very minimal. And the voice is so present right in front of you. No reverb. Like it's processed. Definitely has this sort of distorted quality to it, but it really sounds present right in front of you, intimate. They're not hiding behind anything.

[C]

And his style of rapping is so calm and collected. It's a nice counterpoint to Megan. Cause she's always saying everything in, like, such a fierce and, like, take no prisoners way. Yukichiba, by contrast, seems like he's got all the time in the world. He's like, just kind of, like, speaking gently. It's so cool to me. But then he'll, like, drop in his own little triplets that connect back to that breathy Megan triplet from earlier in the track. And then when we get to the very end of his verse, there's a great moment where he kind of does the inverse of Megan. Megan drops a few lines in Japanese. Yukichiba drops a few lines in English. Nice to meet you. I'm so happy.

[D]

So there's this cross language, cross cultural exchange of two people saying, I'm great, I'm a star. You know, your classic praggadocio. And I think there's something you keep pointing out, this triplet sound, the duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

There's a way in which the triplet against the beat is kind of emphasizing that quality of, like, we are standing out, we are unique, we are special, we are a star. When the beat is, you know, 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and we're going against that beat, we're going against the grain. We're da da da da da da da da da da da. They're fluid. They can kind of make anything work.

[C]

Asserting their independence and agency and stardom.

[D]

Maybe this is an absolute reach, but I like the way that the vocal performance creates that confidence against that very.

[C]

Simple beat right here. I think there's also something about the beat of the song that gives a lot of space for these rappers to offer these different flows and syncopations. The beat is actually by a Japanese producer who's worked with Yuki Chiba before, named Koshi.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

But I feel like this beat is also directly in the lineage of a lot of Megan Thee Stallion's other songs.

[D]

Oh, absolutely.

[C]

And that has a lot to do with the way it features the piano. This is like one of the constants in Megan Thee Stallion's discography. Definitely going back to what was probably her first breakout hit. Savage.

[E]

I'm that bitch, been that bitch still that bitch.

[C]

And followed up on tracks like Megan's Piano from her last album, Something for the Hotties.

[E]

Big ass chain around my neck so these niggas know I'm rich and I don't need shit but the dick Big ass stack in this purse so these n know I'm working I'm holding this glock in my birkin n got a whole l trying to come for my.

[C]

Pen this theme of minimal aggressive piano beats is continued in Mamushi.

[D]

Kind of like if it's a Megan beat, it's gotta have Megan's piano in it.

[C]

Exactly. Now, Mamushi is not the only track on Megan that has been influenced by Japanese music and Japanese culture. Let's spin. Otaku Hot Girl hey can't touch me.

[E]

Like Gojo look good at all my photos just landed in Kyoto I'm worldwide these bitches local Harikato.

[C]

Otaku Hot Girl I love this title because it really defines who Megan is to a degree. Otaku is a term that refers to someone who loves anime.

[D]

Hawkgirl is Megan's whole identity.

[C]

Exactly. So I wasn't aware of this. Maybe you were. Megan. Thee stallion is obsessed with anime.

[D]

Oh, I had no idea. Okay.

[C]

You can find all these videos on YouTube of her just like talking to various anime channels about all the shows and characters she loves. She is deep in this world, so.

[D]

This is making a lot more sense. This is why she's putting a hand out to the Japanese music market. She wants to be a part of this culture.

[C]

The lyrical references here are mostly to an anime show called Jujutsu Kaisen. And that's where the character Gojo comes from that she raps about in the chorus.

[D]

So what's Gojo's thing like? Why can't you touch Gojo?

[C]

Okay, I didn't go deep into the world of Jujutsu Kaisen, so someone else will have to chime in on that note. But I can tell you, Charlie, that this is not the only reference to the show. There's not just lyrical references. There's a musical reference too. Beat that we're hearing on Otaku Hot Girl.

[D]

That sort of thing. Are you going to tell me that's the theme song?

[C]

That is the theme song to Jujutsu Kaisen.

[D]

The Little plucky. It's a cool sample. It's such a funny sample too, because it's hardly a theme song. That's almost more like an audio tag. That's like just a little id. It's quick.

[C]

Well, it's something that you would probably only know if you're a fellow otaku like Megan, like you and I are not. I can't even tell you who Gojo is. So clearly I'm not gonna catch this. But what I can catch is a musical link between this song and. And Mamushi, which is the use of breath that we were talking about. I mean, the breath is almost like a counter melody to the words and the flow that Megan uses.

[D]

She does a lot of ad libs in her tracks. A lot of, you know, that's. That's like her signifier. This track has a whole layer of ad libs of her just going, ah, ah, ah.

[C]

Yeah, it's pretty funny, but they're even deeper than that. They're like, ah. They're like. I mean, when I did that, it sounded like a snake. So. So maybe that's another part of it here. But I just feel like there's this theme throughout these songs, throughout this whole record of like, Megan putting in the work. Her. Her breath, her panting, her effort. You hear it on every track. It becomes its own part of the soundscape of her world. It's really co. So this is a surprising moment that these songs, which embrace Japanese culture and Japanese language, have exploded into the US Public consciousness. That is kind of unusual, maybe even unprecedented. And in fact, when other artists have tried to do this in the past, the results have been ranging from just kind of musically ineffective to downright offensive. We'll get into that after the break.

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[G]

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[C]

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[G]

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[C]

Okay, Charlie, if we're gonna talk about the history of U.S. japanese music relations, we actually have to go all the way back to 1963, and we have to listen to a number one hit on the US Billboard chart. I'm talking about Sukiyaki by Kyu Sakamot. What a novel song that was a number one hit in the U.S. charlie.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

Okay, first of all, it's very important that we understand that this song's original title was not sukiyaki.

[D]

Okay?

[C]

And this title, which was given to the original Japanese song by some record label executive, shows us how there's already a tension in the 1960s between the US and Japan, because sukiyaki is like a dish from Japan that was popular in the United States that consists of, like, thinly sliced beef and noodles. Okay, and to be clear, this song.

[D]

Has nothing to do with some thinly sliced beef noodles, I'm guessing.

[C]

No, this song is not about food. Its first line, ue u muite, means I look up as I walk. And then the lyrics continue so that the tears won't fall Remembering those spring days and tonight I am all alone.

[D]

So someone chose sukiyaki. Assuming it was the only Japanese term someone might know. It's like calling the song California Roll.

[C]

Exactly.

[D]

I mean, California Roll would be only more offensive. Maybe. I'm not sure. I can't grade the offensiveness, but, yeah, that's incredibly reductive.

[C]

This song is beautiful, catchy, clearly resonated with American listeners, even if they didn't speak Japanese. And it also had another meaning for Japanese listeners as well, because later in the song, the singer Kiyo Sakamoto sings about looking forward to a brighter future, and that wasn't just about a new romance or happier days in his personal life. The lyricist of this song was inspired by a debate going on in Japan in the early 1960s of whether to allow the US to build military bases in their country. And this lyricist said he put these words into the song as kind of a subtle protest, telling Japanese government, don't let this happen. Don't allow the US to build bases on our land.

[D]

Wild that it became a hit in the US And US listeners had no idea what they were listening to.

[C]

Right. And of course, the US did build these bases after Japan agreed to a treaty the following year. And in a way that probably influenced the development of Japanese hip hop and artists like Yukichiba, who we heard earlier. Because just like in South Korea, as we discussed in our episode about Epik High a few years ago.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

The presence of these military bases allowed US music to proliferate through these countries.

[D]

The US Military industrial hip hop complex.

[C]

Okay, I want to move on from Sukiyaki, but I just need to acknowledge this song had a lasting impact. It wasn't just popular. In 1963, there were covers of this song stretching through the next multiple decades of American popular music. The band Taste of Honey recorded an English version of sukiyaki in the 1980s. It's all because of the. Of you I'm feeling sad you went away now my love is just a rainy day.

[D]

What an interesting inversion where the original version includes sort of like a jazz orchestra and feels in many ways much more Western. And in the COVID we're using traditional Japanese instrumentation and English lyrics.

[C]

The whole thing has switched up totally. And if this inversion surprises you, I think you'll be agog at the next version of the song I'm going to play, which is by the Tejano singer selena, recorded in 1993.

[D]

This is neat because we have a very synthesized version of the song, which is using synthetic versions of what may be Japanese instruments. What's very cool is that three of the most important synthesizer companies are Japanese. The Roland Corporation, Yamaha, and Korg. And it's very likely that the keyboardist on this production by Selina would have been using one of these Japanese synthesizers.

[C]

Combined with that sound are these traditional Latin percussion instruments. I hear maybe like a guero or a shaker, maybe some bongos or congas in there as well. It's like, such an interesting mix. And of course, she's singing the lyrics in Spanish. So this song has had remarkable transformations since its debut in 1963.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Since Sukiaki, there have been a few Japanese songs or Japanese artists that have charted on the US Billboard Hot 100, including Pink lady with their song Kiss in the Dark in 1979. But it's not really until the 2010s that Japanese songs and Japanese artists start to appear more frequently on the Hot 100. And some of these songs are not what you would call the weightiest imports. There's the viral track PPAP by Pico Taro, which charted at number 77 in October 2016. And if you need a refresher, Charlie, PPAP. That stands for pen, Pineapple, apple pen.

[D]

What?

[C]

I have a pen. I have a apple. Apple pen. I have a pen. I have pineapple. Pineapple pen.

[D]

Are you kidding me? What is this?

[C]

Have you never heard this? Oh, man. You've never seen this viral video from 2016?

[D]

Oh, that makes sense. So this was like a YouTube video that turned into a song that ended up on the charts at the. Yeah, on the bottom of the charts. Okay.

[C]

It's 44 seconds long, so its status as a song is even arguable. But it's a very entertaining video, so I do recommend checking it out. In addition to this novelty song. Pen, Pineapple, apple pen. We have Hikaru Utada with Face My Fears, which just cracked the Hot 100 in February 2019. Charlie, could I put you on the spot and ask you to guess the US music producer who worked on that track?

[D]

It's Skrillex. Obviously.

[C]

It's Skrillex. Yeah.

[D]

I mean, I was like, this is such a late dubstep entry into the charts because dubsteps moment was really much more around, like 2010ish. And here we are, nearly 2020. But Skrillex, he just keeps pumping out hits. And maybe pumping is the right word, because this song is pumping totally. You can hear all that sidechain compression, that sort of breathing quality to the track.

[C]

There was an English version and a Japanese version of the song. I'm not sure exactly which one charted, but either way, there it is. Okay, now, these are all examples of Japanese artists going back to the 1960s who have managed to break onto the US Billboard charts. But what about artists like Megan Thee Stallion, who are American but are trying to incorporate Japanese music and Japanese culture into their work? Well, that hasn't always gone so well in the past. We have to talk about Gwen Stefani's harujuku girls from 2004.

[D]

I knew this was coming. Oh, gosh. Tell me where you Got you. This is a lot. We get a introduction with traditional Japanese instrumentation. I am not an expert. It sounds like perhaps a koto could be another Japanese string instrument. We get some kind of traditional Japanese flute. There are a handful of different Japanese food, so I can't identify which one it is. And then we get an 808 drum groove. The 808 drum machine, while popularized by American hip hop producers, was produced by the Roland Corporation, a Japanese company. So maybe that's fitting. And then we just get her mewing like a cat. And it doesn't get better from there.

[C]

I mean, even the lyrics of this song are a little cringy. She says a subculture and a kaleidoscope of fashion prowl the streets of Harajuku. I'm hanging with the locals. It's like your friend who goes to Japan once, and then, like, all their Instagram stories are about, you know, I feel like a local here. And you're like, you're not. You're not.

[D]

It's just worth pointing out as a reminder, Harajuku is an area of Tokyo, which it's a major sort of shopping mall area in which there is a subset culture of mostly young people dressing in very over the top, fashionable ways. It's an ever evolving place of fashion and culture, which Gwen Stefani is trying to claim because maybe she went there once.

[C]

So Harajuku Girls. It wasn't just a song from this 2004 album, Love Angel Music Baby. These were literal women who were Gwen Stefani's kind of backup dancers, plus, like, Entourage. Each of them were given one of the names of this title. So one was love, one was angel, one was music, one was Baby. They famously did not speak ever. They were almost like these background props. And this led a lot of critics at the time to really reject Gwen Stefani's perceived appropriation and exoticization of Japanese culture.

[D]

I would love to think that Gwen Stefani is still walking around with this posse of friends, and they actually remain friends forever. She didn't go to Harajuku once. She actually completely transformed her identity. And she. This is obviously not the case. Like, this was like, she tried on a culture for a second, and then it sounds like she probably just turned around into the next thing.

[C]

Well, in her defense, she, like Megan Thee Stallion was someone who was a legitimate lover of Japanese culture. Her father was a businessman who worked in Japan for 18 years. So she grew up always being exposed to this culture. She says her goal was to honor it and promote it, but maybe she didn't do that in the most tactful or respectful way.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, Megan is sharing the mic equally with another star is a very different way of approaching the issue than having some people in the background.

[C]

I think this is the key, Charlie. Megan Thee Stallion gives voice to a rising Japanese hip hop artist, Yukichiba in her track Mamushi. She lets this culture speak for itself. Gwen Stefani uses the culture to speak for her. And that's exactly what another pop artist did in their song hello Kitty from 2013. And that's Avril Lavigne.

[E]

Let's all slumber party like a fat kid on a pack of Smarties Chuck a cupcake at me.

[C]

Okay. Besides the lyrical abomination that is let's all slumber party like a fat kid on a pack of Smarties. Someone chuck a cupcake at me which turns my stomach.

[D]

It's giving big, how do you do fellow kids? Kind of vibe. Just like it feels like this was written by somebody who was like, I saw a postcard of Japan and we should do a song about Japanese culture. What do we say? Avril Lavigne was already far into her career at this moment. Like, she's not having slumber parties. She's not into kawaii culture. It's just like, it doesn't read as genuine.

[C]

Nor does the chorus. Come, come kitty kitty, you're so pretty don't go kitty kitty, stay with me.

[D]

That's very silly.

[C]

It's like every 10 years there's an artist who tries this, apparently, right? 2004, Gwen Stefani 2013, Avril Lavigne and now 10 years later, Megan Thee Stallion 2024 with Mamushi. And yet it feels so different now. And I think that's for some of the reasons we've already mentioned. I mean, Megan, someone with a genuine love and admiration and deep knowledge of Japanese culture, of anime, of Japanese hip hop. Megan Thee Stallion brings these Japanese artists into the fold. The producer Koshi, the rapper Yuki Chiba. And she gives them a platform and allows them to speak for themselves.

[D]

She doesn't use the instrumentation of traditional Japanese culture. Instead brings in Megan's piano. It feels a little bit more like a handshake rather than, yeah, I flew in once and I brought this, you know, this little tchotchke back with me kind of vibe that we get from the other songs.

[C]

That's interesting. She's maintaining her own sonic identity. So there's this sense of cultural exchange perhaps, rather than cultural appropriation. There's a give and take, a back and Forth that results in something new and exciting and ideally, you know, beneficial for both cultures.

[D]

We even talked about how she establishes this triplet feel in her voice, which is then borrowed in the second verse rap. And so there really is this exchange going on.

[C]

And I feel like this is important because Japanese culture is on the rise in the United States. I spoke to Hannah Lee, who is the program associate in culture and entertainment for the Japan society, and she told me that we should get used to more Japanese collaborations like this. Because, Charlie, you and I may not be familiar with the world of anime, with jujutsu kaisen, with Japanese hip hop. Not yet, but Gen Z is 42/.

[E]

Percent of Gen Z watches anime on a weekly basis. In fact, according to the Polygon Report, more Gen Z follow anime on a weekly basis than like watch NFL or something. I was like, I can believe that.

[D]

Oh, interesting, huh?

[C]

So I feel like we are on the precipice of Japanese culture becoming something really ubiquitous within the United States, perhaps similar to what K Pop has done over the past two decades.

[D]

So what you're saying is Megan is catching the very start of this new wave.

[C]

Exactly. At the very beginning of this episode, I described the song as kind of an outlier. But if we go back and listen to this conversation, in maybe just a few years, it won't seem like an outlier at all. It'll seem like the start of a new cultural wave.

[D]

Cool.

[C]

And if we are on the precipice of a Japanese cultural wave.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I want to look towards Megan Thee Stallion as the standard bearer for how this can go down. Because we've heard this is what we could call a cultural exchange.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It's respectful, it's deeply knowledgeable. It platforms and promotes Japanese artists. That's always important within any kind of cultural borrowing, but it's especially important in this relationship between Japan and the US because this is a fraught history, socially, culturally, politically. World War II, the atomic bomb, Japanese internment. I'm not saying that musicians have to deal with these heavy historical facts, but that is always in the background of this transnational dialogue. So here in 2024, when we might be on the verge of another moment of intense cross cultural collaboration and exchange, who do we want leading that charge? Charlie? Is it Gwen Stefani or Megan Thee Stallion?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I know who I'm choosing.

[D]

Switched On Pop is produced by Rana Cruz, Edited by Art Chung Engineered by Brandon McFarlane Illustrations by Ares Gottlieb.

[C]

Special thanks to Hannah Lee from the Japan Society and Davis Jung.

[D]

We're a member of the Vox Media Podcast network and a production of Vulture, which is part of New York Magazine. You can [e-mail] pod otakus weebs all.

[C]

Other lovers of Japanese culture. Find us on social media whiched on pop and tell us what you're loving about Megan's album. Tell us what other Japanese hip hop artists j Pop artists, Ani song artists we should be listening to and tune in next week when we'll be back with a brand new episode.

[D]

Until then, thanks for listening.

[C]

Thanks for listening. Kasegu Orego was.

[I]

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